June 22, 2025 • 32 mins
Hess and Delbert invite you to the celebration of Pride Month. They both share their own experiences of their life, having been born in 1958. Hess talks about the Stonewall riot that created a shift towards gay rights. There is a National Monument in Christoper Park in NYC in its commemoration. You don’t know what you don’t know, so Hess talks about how confusing it was to her, not to see any representation in her childhood with who she was. It made her difficult for her to even know who she was because nothing was ever mirrored back. In NYC it was against the law to serve a homosexual a drink. The gay bars back then in the city were run by the mafia, and things were kept hidden. There were something like 10,000 rights that were not given to a gay person or couple. In these days, as rights have expanded, it is important as Delbert says, that “We have to keep moving forward!” We need to acknowledge and celebrate the differences. Delbert and Hess love our Governor Andy Beshear because he takes the side of the LGBTQ+. This is the way that the real Jesus Christ loves. Celebrate the diversity—it is where the magic is! Peace and Love.
Update on my friend José and his cancer treatments. José has finsihed two raounds of chemo--the second round much stronger. After a recent scan, there is great news the tumors have shrunk--ALOT! Thank you Lord, and José's positive frame of mind! He knows he will beat this! Thank you so much for your support to Jose!
https://gofund.me/e6f61999
In addition to being a podcast host, Hess is also an LCSW--if you'd like to learn more about her work as a therapist, check it out at www.jessicabollinger.com
One of her mission's is for all of our lights to shine--when we see each other and allow ourself to be seen--and we can say to the person in front of us, There You Are! the world will be an amazing place!
Delbert is a realtor in Louisville, KY, and you can find her at Kentucky Select Properties
Her philanthropic work to continue her sister Carole and niece Meghan is Carole's Kitchen. Blessings in a Backpack helps feed the many hungry students in our schools. The instagram account is: https://www.instagram.com/caroleskitchen.nonprofit?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hess (00:01):
Hey welcome everybody to let me tell you this about that.
My name's Hess.
I'm sitting in my white chair inmy bedroom, looking out at the
farm, watching purple.
Martins fly around the yard.
Delbert (00:16):
Good morning and happy pride.
This is Delbert once again onthe green couch looking out my
picture window.
It is a beautiful day inLouisville, Kentucky.
I'm excited to go down to theriver today.
I'm gonna.
Go to Turner's, my swim club.
And on Sundays we have a potluckand people volunteer to work the
(00:40):
grill.
So I'm gonna work the grilltoday.
It's one of those Blackstones.
It's super fun.
And but for right now, Hess andI since it's June, we wanted to
talk to you about Pride.
Hess (00:54):
Yeah, we I got my pride flag down at the end of the
driveway by the road.
And nobody's taking it down, sothat's a good thing.
My Black Lives Matter signs gottaken down like five different
times, but they, my Black LivesMatter signs been up for five
months, so that's a cool thing.
I love that.
I love it.
Delbert (01:11):
That's good.
Hess (01:12):
Yeah.
Delbert (01:12):
what?
I had my little pride flag.
I need to look for that'causeyou put it in my flower pot last
year after we went to the Prideparade.
I need to look for that'cause Isaved it.
Hess (01:23):
So here we are in Kentucky and it's Pride Month, and
yesterday was Pride Day inLouisville.
And tell us what you all do.
Pride Day, Louisville Delbert.
Delbert (01:37):
Here we have just a really spectacular parade.
You and I went to it last year.
I missed it this year because Ihad to work.
and darn it, I said I hadn'tseen the news yet, but I did see
one picture of some of myfriends at the Pride Parade and
they had the Pink Pony Club, soI missed that.
My favorite song, dang it.
But we have just the mostwonderful parade and lots of,
(02:02):
the big companies here inLouisville participate and have
wonderful floats and then endsup on the waterfront down
downtown by the river.
And they have a concert and theyhave all sorts of booths with
food.
And a lot of people in theL-G-B-T-Q community ha have
booths and sell their wares andjust, it's just a, it's a day
(02:25):
long festival.
That's really wonderful.
Hess (02:28):
And who sang last year at the at the
Delbert (02:31):
dang.
And we didn't get tickets intime.
Chapel Rone, who sings Pink PonyClub.
She's my favorite.
I love her.
Anyway.
Hess (02:39):
Amen.
Here in Lexington.
Our festival is next Saturday,the 28th, and we have this big
wide expanse where it's gonna bethis year on Oliver Lewis way,
which is right next to where,which is right downtown Delbert.
We don't do a parade, but wealways have a representation of.
(03:04):
Diversity of gay diversity ofLGBTQ plus in the 4th of July
parade that we have.
And a few years ago, our boatwas one of the entries for that
4th of July parade.
And Bert, you came up with oneof your darlings and helped
paint banners that we.
We that we put along the boatand we put different people on
(03:26):
the boat and flags and wave andstuff like that.
And that's really cool'cause theparades are awesome.
And going to that parade withyou last year in Louisville,
it's huge.
And you have all of thebusinesses like ge, Kentucky,
utilities, all these businessesinvolved with their
diversification, real estateagencies, schools, all these
(03:48):
groups.
It's so fabulous.
Delbert (03:50):
A lot of the hospitals and my daughter where she works
Baptist, they participate.
So it really is the wholecommunity, all the businesses
and All the students comingtogether to celebrate pride.
So it is, it's a beautifulthing.
Hess, you and I have beenfriends, as we tell everybody
since first grade.
(04:10):
And growing up when we grew uppeople weren't able to express
themselves.
The way that people are able toexpress themselves now and we
gotta keep that going.
We can't let our.
LGBTQ community lose any morerights?
We've gotta keep moving thisforward.
But, tell everybody a little bitabout your experience and
Hess (04:35):
Okay.
In my experience, I was born in1958.
In my experience, I never sawrepresentation that connected,
that was a match for what I wasthinking or feeling inside.
I.
I from the get go my, the, Iplayed, I my mom gave me a Mary
Alexander Doll and I put it upon the, I said, I don't even
(04:57):
know if I said thank you.
I just put it up on thefireplace and got back down on
the floor and played with mytrucks and cars and the car wash
that I got for this little toycar wash that I got for
Christmas.
And.
My mom, bless her.
She'd buy me high tops, she'dbuy me an army uniform, cowboy
hat, football uniform.
(05:19):
She supported me that way.
So that was cool.
That was cool.
And I just, I didn't haveanybody that I was watching on
TV that represented me and as, Idon't ha I don't know anybody
that's gay at all.
And.
Then we go into high school andBert, you and I are together
(05:40):
grade school through high schooland sitting around the cafeteria
at Sacred Heart.
It was the, at the tables,everybody was talking about who
they were dating.
Somebody from Trinity orsomebody from Sacred, somebody
from St.
X.
Those were two all boys schoolsand some would branch out in
Wagner or Atherton.
(06:01):
I didn't, I, I didn't haveanything to share about that.
I think I insulated myself someby by just staying at home a
lot.
Not going out on the weekends ifI felt like I was supposed to go
out.
And so if I went out on a Fridaynight, I'd say, okay, I got that
over with.
I'm home now.
There just wasn't thisattraction.
(06:25):
And go to college.
I'm not really dating, I invitedsomebody in high school to the
senior prom, right?
I'm supposed to pretend.
And being in backseats of carswhere you get set up on dates
and being, having yourself, likehaving your body violated and
stuff in backseats at drive-ins.
I remember that.
(06:45):
Late grade school when I went togo visit a friend down in
Florida.
So now I'm sorry, I'm gettinginto the Me Too movement.
Is, but all of it is somethingthat,
Delbert (06:56):
me.
I loved making out, but okay.
You keep going
Hess (07:00):
okay.
So it, it all didn't feel good.
And yeah and so I go to college,still don't still don't feel any
attraction.
I've got crushes along the waywith girls.
And I'm not gonna share who allmy crushes were because I never
told them who I had a crush on.
Okay.
Yeah.
So some of them were classmates,
Delbert (07:21):
We don't wanna surprise them on our podcast.
Yeah.
Hess (07:24):
some of them were classmates.
And yeah go to college, notreally dating.
Anyway, I date somebody that Ifeel like I can settle with.
That's I don't know.
It's cute and all that, butanyway.
Delbert (07:36):
It a guy or a girl.
Hess (07:38):
It's a guy.
Delbert (07:39):
Wow.
Hess Revelation.
I
Hess (07:43):
Revelation.
Delbert (07:43):
dated a guy.
Okay.
Hess (07:46):
Yeah.
This is the person I rode thebicycle with across the country.
Delbert (07:50):
Okay.
Hess (07:50):
Yeah.
And so I'm running my fruitmarket and this girl comes in
the fruit market and I just feellike there's, and the way that
this girl's looking at me andthe way I'm looking at this
girl.
So that was my entry to owningmy identity.
And then this person was a drugaddict kind of person and
totally opposite me.
(08:13):
And just a, just a tri and adive to say.
Okay, this is what feels rightfor me.
This is what this makes sense.
This feels like a match.
And, as I moved along with alittle healthier relationship,
sharing who I was with thepeople that knew me.
Delbert, it was so refreshingbecause I was love for me.
(08:33):
Everybody already knew me for along time and they said we don't
care if you're gay, and.
Just we love you.
And I, it was a, it was a dry,Delbert when everybody already
knew and I didn't have anybodyto tell because every time I
told somebody it just felt likean affirmation that I was still
loved.
And I ran outta people to tell,'cause everybody knew.
(08:55):
When I told my folks, I guess Itold my folks we're near the
end, they said, don't wanna talkabout it.
Don't.
And my parents are divorced, soI told each one separately.
Don't talk about it.
Don't need to talk about it.
And my dad thought it was maybea phase that I'd go through and
talk to me.
I don't know.
He, we were riding up achairlift in Steamboat Springs.
Delbert (09:17):
This is as good as time, as any, yeah.
Okay.
Hess (09:19):
Yeah.
So we love you, but we don'tlove all of you.
Yeah.
And I love what Glennon Doylesaid one time when she came into
her love with.
With her partner with her wifethat, Hey I don't want you on my
island.
If you don't accept the wholeisland.
Hey, don't, I don't even wantyou to cross the bridge.
(09:40):
Yeah.
But you like being such a goodfriend of you.
Don't you have no idea?
Because we don't know what wedon't know.
I don't know what it's like tobe in black skin.
We don't know what we don'tknow.
You don't know what it was likefor me?
Delbert (09:53):
And
Hess (09:53):
just.
Delbert (09:55):
and I hate that prohibited you from fully being
alive during those, do you knowwhat I mean?
Like fully engaging and feelingpart of everything.
I really, I hate that.
Hess (10:09):
You touched on Adelbert because it wasn't like full
aliveness.
Delbert (10:12):
It wasn't your f you weren't fully alive.
And, I've had people tell me, myhigh school experience was not
that fun.
And I say, oh my God, I washaving so much fun.
thought everybody was having asmuch fun as me.
And, in my immature high schoolmind, I'm like, come on
everybody.
And, only in my adult life am Irealizing, that I had people who
(10:37):
were struggling, and I hate Knowthat, and that I didn't, I
wasn't more help.
Hess (10:45):
Yeah.
And also, I got in relationshipwith somebody.
I was attracted to somebody.
I think the commonality was shewanted to be a parent and it's
something that was a missingtile on my ceiling.
And we parented together and Iwas not the biological mother.
Then she leaves with this childwhen he's three and a half, and
that was such a blow.
I had no legal right and thatwas just crazy because I was a
(11:09):
primary caregiver.
Took this person to court and soon, and that's all a long story,
but devastating and just that'swhen we were trying to get
rights and rights of ourrelationship, there was
something like 10,000 rightsthat, that some a gay person
didn't have that a heterosexualperson had.
(11:31):
Just crazy how many things, bigand small that you don't have a
right to.
So now, yeah, I've been inrelationship with Cathy, my
wife, for 30 years.
We adopted our son Lucas.
He's gonna be 26.
He's gonna be 26 in September.
Delbert (11:50):
both had, not any longer'cause he's an adult, but
you both had equal rights.
Hess (11:55):
No.
So
Delbert (11:56):
oh.
Hess (11:58):
let me.
Let me tell you this, about thatto do adoption.
Back in back in 99, 2000 that Italked to a social worker and
just we, Cathy and I decided toadopt from Guatemala.
Love, love Hispanic people.
Love, love Hispanic people.
Talking to a social worker, shesaid why are you why are you why
(12:20):
are you choosing Guatemala?
Oh, and another thing, Bert, Idid not share with the social
worker that Cathy and I arepartners because I was scared
that we wouldn't be able to,yeah, and also you weren't
allowed to do, to adopt as samesex couples.
We, you weren't allowed to adoptinternationally.
(12:42):
You're not allowed to adoptdomestically then.
And so I was the only person onour paperwork.
And when Sandy Hamilton, thesocial worker, came to inspect
the home to make sure we didn'thave poison underneath the sink
and stuff, and then we had afire extinguisher.
(13:03):
I I put away a few pictures.
Of just us as a couple.
Isn't that something?
Delbert (13:09):
Wow.
Hess (13:10):
But while I'm sitting with her, because who I am, it it,
you can't hide who I am.
She was telling me about someother folk that we know here in
Lexington that she was thesocial worker for, and she said,
and I'm not gonna say any names,but it's a lesbian couple and
she said.
You just seem so grounded and sowith it, you just seem like you
(13:32):
have it, you have your lifetogether so much just like blah,
blah, blah.
And I smiled because blah, blah,blah.
They're gay.
And, it makes me think justhumorously, like sometimes a
relationship, all it might needis a, is another woman or
somebody was telling me abouthow tough their relationship is
and I'm saying like, maybe youneed to be with a woman and you
(13:52):
wouldn't have these problems,but communication.
Anyway when Sandy's at thehouse, I don't tell her I'm in
relationship with Cathy, and theadoption goes through, she calls
on September 24th.
It's a healthy baby boy.
Born September 4th.
We're elated, so excited.
And anyway, it wasn't until theSupreme Court.
(14:17):
Cathy went with me to Guatemala.
Cathy's been a co-parent thewhole way, a hundred percent.
She's holding Lucas on theveranda in Guatemala City.
We just got him that afternoon.
She's looking into his eyes.
He's looking into her eyes.
She's got him on her kneestaring at, and she says, if I
(14:38):
was rich, I'd have eight ofthese.
Delbert (14:40):
Oh.
Hess (14:41):
So she was totally, she totally in is loved being a mom.
Loved being a mom to Lucas.
Anyway, it wasn't until theSupreme Court made the verdict
that there could be gay marriageor gay marriages could be
honored that that Cathy was, andwe went through, we got married
and she was able to have legalrights.
(15:02):
So Lucas is about 14 years oldwhen that happens.
Delbert (15:07):
Okay.
Hess (15:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that made me feel so muchmore at ease.
And of course I had all thelegal doc documents done and
hard conversations with mybrother and sister that if
something happens to me, youcan't just, we swoop in here and
take Lucas.
'cause you're quote unquote.
Next Tokin Kath, Cathy's a fullfledged parent.
And back then Delbert, if Cathydid adopt Lucas before we got
(15:30):
gay marriage rights, if she didadopt Lucas.
I would have to give up myrights so it wasn't gonna be
equal.
Yeah.
Delbert (15:39):
Wow.
Hess (15:40):
Yeah.
Delbert (15:42):
Look at all the rights, just in that one little story
that human beings deserve tohave.
All humans.
And when Hess and I decided totalk about this, I I said, for
sure you need to tell your storyand.
Coming at it as a as a straightperson.
(16:02):
I'm just gonna share a littlestory Hess.
Has this wonderful couple that'sfriends of hers that came into
town and went to the, one of theSacred Heart State Championships
with us.
And I had just never met'em, butI was in the back walking with
one of'em and she was telling mehow she and her wife fell in
love and married we just endedup holding hands.
(16:24):
And I said, I just wanna tellyou, that is just beautiful and
I love.
That you're married and I loveyour relationship.
And she said, you're the onlystraight Catholic that's ever
said that to me.
And I just said I'm gonna keepbeing that straight Catholic.
wanna tell people that JesusChrist loved everyone.
(16:45):
He did not judge anyone.
We're all to be judged equallyand loved equally.
And anyone that.
Says they're a Christian andwants to take the rights away of
any individual because theydon't understand.
I'm here to tell you right thisminute, that's not Christ-like,
Hess (17:07):
Not at all.
Not at all.
Delbert (17:11):
it ain't easy being Catholic, we get a lot of bad
press and rightfully the trueteaching to just love everyone.
As you love yourself.
I stick with that and I reallyhope that our new Pope Leo comes
out and goes even further.
in regards to the L-G-B-T-Qcommunity than Pope Francis did.
(17:35):
I love Pope Francis.
He was older.
We need to go further in, inblessing and acknowledging
these.
These marriages and just leteveryone get married in the
church if that's their faith ofchoice.
Let's lift everybody up andsupport everybody.
I think.
I think we're on the right sideof history when it comes to
immigration.
(17:56):
That's beautiful.
I love it.
love everybody.
let's include everybody in thefold.
Hess (18:05):
It.
Not being able to see, be seenor be acknowledged that like
when we are, when we're workingtowards our gay rights.
Now let me say this about thatand give you all a little
historical context because Ithink it was the end of June in
June 28th, 1969, it was theStonewall uprising and back then
(18:28):
in, in New York City.
You couldn't serve a gay personalcohol you you were arrested
for wearing fewer than threearticles of clothing that match
your sex serving alcoholbeverages to homosexuals were
pro prohibited from married menand women who lived homosexual,
and that's what a lot of peopledid.
(18:48):
Just while you're supposed toget married and you get married,
but you're not full all inbecause you, it's not a match.
You don't.
But you might really love thisperson, but it's not your sexual
orientation.
So many people married a acrosstheir gender but not their true
sexual identity.
So anyway,
Delbert (19:08):
fully alive, as we said about you in high school and
college not
Hess (19:12):
right?
Delbert (19:13):
alive.
Hess (19:14):
So they're they're living their lives in secret.
These couples and blackmail wasa constant threat to these
couples.
And so discrimination and fear,they were just tools to isolate
people when homosexual, sohomosexuality was hidden, and I
was just at the beautifulhealing place in Louisville on
Friday, touring it with JayDavidson, and of course he says
(19:38):
again, that, that addiction is.
Is being isolated.
So isolation having soisolation's always bad.
It causes it's true addiction.
When you're separate.
So isolating homosexuality,having us be in a closet, not
being able to be ourself, ourfull life self.
It's not healthy.
(19:59):
It's not healthy.
So after the Stonewall uprisingearly, this one morning when the
bar got raided and it got raidedfrequently.
The people pushed back in thebar and it was a long slug fest.
And over there in ChristopherPark, across the street liberate
Christopher Street, everybodywas yelling.
(20:21):
And there was also, this is abyproduct.
The youth who gathered atChristopher Park, some of them
homeless with little socialcapital, right?
They challenged the police,linked arms, formed a blockade.
Youth would be kicked out oftheir families because they were
gay, because of who they are andtheir sexuality.
And one of my partners wasafraid to come out because she
(20:42):
was a school teacher back thenwhen I was in early
relationship.
And so the Stonewall happened inI think that's probably why gay
Pride Month is, in June, Iremember some of our past
presidents who would light upthe outside of the White House
with all the colored lights.
Wasn't that cool to see?
Delbert (21:03):
I love that and I
Hess (21:04):
Beautiful.
Delbert (21:04):
governor takes up for young L-G-B-T-Q community, even
though we're really Republican,heavy in the rest of our
government.
And I love that he said his whywas being a Christian, I love
that.
If
Hess (21:20):
Right.
Delbert (21:20):
your why
Hess (21:23):
yeah,
Delbert (21:24):
to come to an understanding Exactly.
Hess (21:27):
yeah.
And Cathy and I in mycertification and what I do for
my individuals and couples is wedo a Getting the Love You Want
workshop.
And many of my colleagues wouldgive a straight workshop.
They give a gay workshop.
I.
The Getting The Love You WantWorkshop that Cathy and I
attended in 1997, Helen Andrewsin the Maggie Valley of North
(21:50):
Carolina.
I always put that on there.
At the Chattahoochee Ranch, shehas always given the Getting the
Love You Want Workshop for allcouples, gay or straight,
because she thought it was goodfor straight people to be around
gay people and just to see thatwe're people and we're in
relationship just like you are.
Delbert (22:06):
to that.
Amen to that.
I
Hess (22:08):
Yeah.
Delbert (22:09):
why they separated because surely we're all human
beings.
We have the same kinds ofstruggles, we all Same kind of
struggle.
Hess (22:17):
but Delbert, it goes back to, can you feel safe?
Delbert (22:22):
Ah.
Hess (22:23):
So we talked about assimilation that we don't
always have to all be the same.
We're accepted for who we are.
Black people can be accepted forwho black people are and their
diversity and their greatness.
They don't have to be just likewhite people for sure.
And gay people don't have to bejust like straight people in
their relationship.
Delbert (22:43):
Exactly.
Hess (22:43):
we don't, we assimilation.
No, we, we need to still seecolor.
We still need to be able to seediversity and talk about
diversity and to learn aboutdiversity.
Not be all alike.
Delbert (22:58):
Yes.
Be a boring world if we were allalike.
For
Hess (23:01):
Absolutely.
Delbert (23:02):
For sure.
Hess (23:04):
So what Stonewall, what?
What happened with Stonewall?
And there's a national monumentthere to Delbert and there's the
statues in the Christopher Park.
It's so cool.
You'll have to see that when yougo back up with one of your
darlings or with whoever.
So by the time of Stonewall,there might have been like 60
gay groups in all of the UnitedStates, and then a year later
(23:26):
there were 1500 gay groups, andthen two years later.
As the extent the accounts couldbe made, there was at least like
2,500.
So that's the impact ofStonewall and it's increased.
Manyfold and now it, now we havethis designated month, pride
month and one of my friends downat the barn, Jocelyn, she said,
(23:47):
seeing the gay pride flag out atthe end of the driveway when she
came in and I had a, I had a.
Pride shirt on.
She goes, my first gay prideparade was Washington DC and it
was just the funnest thing inthe world.
She said, I've never beenaround.
She said, and it was a long timeago, she said, and it was the
happiest, funnest people I'veever been around in my whole
(24:10):
life.
And it is.
It is because it's fullaliveness.
Be who you are,
Delbert (24:17):
Yes,
Hess (24:18):
love who you are.
Delbert (24:21):
that's a good, that's a good one.
Just love who you are.
Love yourself.
Hess (24:27):
Yeah.
Delbert (24:27):
in all your aliveness?
Hess (24:30):
Yeah.
And in your heterosexuality,just think about that, Bert.
How if you own who you are, it'sso different than other people's
heterosexuality, they're all,it's all different.
Delbert (24:41):
Absolutely.
Hess (24:42):
Yeah.
Love it.
I'm you just pump me up withsome good energy there.
Delbert (24:47):
Oh, good.
Good.
Hess (24:49):
I don't need to have caffeine.
Delbert (24:52):
Oh and I have to back off of it at a certain point in
the morning because I say, oh, Ican't have one more cup of
coffee.
Nobody will be able to stand me.
'Cause I'm kinda, chatty So doyou have any quotes for today or
are we just gonna leave peopleon?
Let's go out there and live ourlives.
Fully alive.
(25:13):
Fully alive,
Hess (25:15):
Everybody.
Exactly.
Anyway, yes that Stonewall riotis almost equal to like the
March on Selma and the SenecaFalls.
Okay.
All of these rights, own yourright as an individual.
I always say to people, thereyou are because you, you are
different than anybody.
(25:35):
Own it.
Regal it, have fun.
Dancing it, singing it, playingit.
Delbert, I love you.
You're individuality, you'relittle fire thing that you do in
your backyard.
Lightened colored paper and allof the individual things that
you all might do.
Listeners that as you own it, beit, share it.
(25:56):
Love it.
Delbert (25:56):
Be alike.
There you are.
We see you.
It's a worldwide movement.
Folks, look it up on Instagram.
We got t-shirts and welcomemats.
Hess has got such a creativemind and she does all the setup
for this podcast and all theediting and broadcasts it on all
(26:17):
our platforms.
So please and share and listen.
A lot of hard work goes into itand I just am gonna.
Get off here and go get ready towork the grill at Turner's while
Hess does all the hard work.
Hess (26:30):
Have fun baby.
Hey put some ice packs on yourneck or something because.
Delbert (26:34):
I'm gonna take a little baby cooler that I got at Kroger
for a dollar.
It's five years old, but it'slike still does not leak and
it's awesome.
I'm gonna pack a bunch of ice inthere for my shift for sure.
Hess (26:48):
Okay, y'all.
Peace and love.
We love you all.
Hey welcome everybody to let me tell you this about that.
My name's Hess.
I'm sitting in my white chair inmy bedroom, looking out at the
farm, watching purple.
Martins fly around the yard.
Delbert (00:16):
Good morning and happy pride.
This is Delbert once again onthe green couch looking out my
picture window.
It is a beautiful day inLouisville, Kentucky.
I'm excited to go down to theriver today.
I'm gonna.
Go to Turner's, my swim club.
And on Sundays we have a potluckand people volunteer to work the
(00:40):
grill.
So I'm gonna work the grilltoday.
It's one of those Blackstones.
It's super fun.
And but for right now, Hess andI since it's June, we wanted to
talk to you about Pride.
Hess (00:54):
Yeah, we I got my pride flag down at the end of the
driveway by the road.
And nobody's taking it down, sothat's a good thing.
My Black Lives Matter signs gottaken down like five different
times, but they, my Black LivesMatter signs been up for five
months, so that's a cool thing.
I love that.
I love it.
Delbert (01:11):
That's good.
Hess (01:12):
Yeah.
Delbert (01:12):
what?
I had my little pride flag.
I need to look for that'causeyou put it in my flower pot last
year after we went to the Prideparade.
I need to look for that'cause Isaved it.
Hess (01:23):
So here we are in Kentucky and it's Pride Month, and
yesterday was Pride Day inLouisville.
And tell us what you all do.
Pride Day, Louisville Delbert.
Delbert (01:37):
Here we have just a really spectacular parade.
You and I went to it last year.
I missed it this year because Ihad to work.
and darn it, I said I hadn'tseen the news yet, but I did see
one picture of some of myfriends at the Pride Parade and
they had the Pink Pony Club, soI missed that.
My favorite song, dang it.
But we have just the mostwonderful parade and lots of,
(02:02):
the big companies here inLouisville participate and have
wonderful floats and then endsup on the waterfront down
downtown by the river.
And they have a concert and theyhave all sorts of booths with
food.
And a lot of people in theL-G-B-T-Q community ha have
booths and sell their wares andjust, it's just a, it's a day
(02:25):
long festival.
That's really wonderful.
Hess (02:28):
And who sang last year at the at the
Delbert (02:31):
dang.
And we didn't get tickets intime.
Chapel Rone, who sings Pink PonyClub.
She's my favorite.
I love her.
Anyway.
Hess (02:39):
Amen.
Here in Lexington.
Our festival is next Saturday,the 28th, and we have this big
wide expanse where it's gonna bethis year on Oliver Lewis way,
which is right next to where,which is right downtown Delbert.
We don't do a parade, but wealways have a representation of.
(03:04):
Diversity of gay diversity ofLGBTQ plus in the 4th of July
parade that we have.
And a few years ago, our boatwas one of the entries for that
4th of July parade.
And Bert, you came up with oneof your darlings and helped
paint banners that we.
We that we put along the boatand we put different people on
(03:26):
the boat and flags and wave andstuff like that.
And that's really cool'cause theparades are awesome.
And going to that parade withyou last year in Louisville,
it's huge.
And you have all of thebusinesses like ge, Kentucky,
utilities, all these businessesinvolved with their
diversification, real estateagencies, schools, all these
(03:48):
groups.
It's so fabulous.
Delbert (03:50):
A lot of the hospitals and my daughter where she works
Baptist, they participate.
So it really is the wholecommunity, all the businesses
and All the students comingtogether to celebrate pride.
So it is, it's a beautifulthing.
Hess, you and I have beenfriends, as we tell everybody
since first grade.
(04:10):
And growing up when we grew uppeople weren't able to express
themselves.
The way that people are able toexpress themselves now and we
gotta keep that going.
We can't let our.
LGBTQ community lose any morerights?
We've gotta keep moving thisforward.
But, tell everybody a little bitabout your experience and
Hess (04:35):
Okay.
In my experience, I was born in1958.
In my experience, I never sawrepresentation that connected,
that was a match for what I wasthinking or feeling inside.
I.
I from the get go my, the, Iplayed, I my mom gave me a Mary
Alexander Doll and I put it upon the, I said, I don't even
(04:57):
know if I said thank you.
I just put it up on thefireplace and got back down on
the floor and played with mytrucks and cars and the car wash
that I got for this little toycar wash that I got for
Christmas.
And.
My mom, bless her.
She'd buy me high tops, she'dbuy me an army uniform, cowboy
hat, football uniform.
(05:19):
She supported me that way.
So that was cool.
That was cool.
And I just, I didn't haveanybody that I was watching on
TV that represented me and as, Idon't ha I don't know anybody
that's gay at all.
And.
Then we go into high school andBert, you and I are together
(05:40):
grade school through high schooland sitting around the cafeteria
at Sacred Heart.
It was the, at the tables,everybody was talking about who
they were dating.
Somebody from Trinity orsomebody from Sacred, somebody
from St.
X.
Those were two all boys schoolsand some would branch out in
Wagner or Atherton.
(06:01):
I didn't, I, I didn't haveanything to share about that.
I think I insulated myself someby by just staying at home a
lot.
Not going out on the weekends ifI felt like I was supposed to go
out.
And so if I went out on a Fridaynight, I'd say, okay, I got that
over with.
I'm home now.
There just wasn't thisattraction.
(06:25):
And go to college.
I'm not really dating, I invitedsomebody in high school to the
senior prom, right?
I'm supposed to pretend.
And being in backseats of carswhere you get set up on dates
and being, having yourself, likehaving your body violated and
stuff in backseats at drive-ins.
I remember that.
(06:45):
Late grade school when I went togo visit a friend down in
Florida.
So now I'm sorry, I'm gettinginto the Me Too movement.
Is, but all of it is somethingthat,
Delbert (06:56):
me.
I loved making out, but okay.
You keep going
Hess (07:00):
okay.
So it, it all didn't feel good.
And yeah and so I go to college,still don't still don't feel any
attraction.
I've got crushes along the waywith girls.
And I'm not gonna share who allmy crushes were because I never
told them who I had a crush on.
Okay.
Yeah.
So some of them were classmates,
Delbert (07:21):
We don't wanna surprise them on our podcast.
Yeah.
Hess (07:24):
some of them were classmates.
And yeah go to college, notreally dating.
Anyway, I date somebody that Ifeel like I can settle with.
That's I don't know.
It's cute and all that, butanyway.
Delbert (07:36):
It a guy or a girl.
Hess (07:38):
It's a guy.
Delbert (07:39):
Wow.
Hess Revelation.
I
Hess (07:43):
Revelation.
Delbert (07:43):
dated a guy.
Okay.
Hess (07:46):
Yeah.
This is the person I rode thebicycle with across the country.
Delbert (07:50):
Okay.
Hess (07:50):
Yeah.
And so I'm running my fruitmarket and this girl comes in
the fruit market and I just feellike there's, and the way that
this girl's looking at me andthe way I'm looking at this
girl.
So that was my entry to owningmy identity.
And then this person was a drugaddict kind of person and
totally opposite me.
(08:13):
And just a, just a tri and adive to say.
Okay, this is what feels rightfor me.
This is what this makes sense.
This feels like a match.
And, as I moved along with alittle healthier relationship,
sharing who I was with thepeople that knew me.
Delbert, it was so refreshingbecause I was love for me.
(08:33):
Everybody already knew me for along time and they said we don't
care if you're gay, and.
Just we love you.
And I, it was a, it was a dry,Delbert when everybody already
knew and I didn't have anybodyto tell because every time I
told somebody it just felt likean affirmation that I was still
loved.
And I ran outta people to tell,'cause everybody knew.
(08:55):
When I told my folks, I guess Itold my folks we're near the
end, they said, don't wanna talkabout it.
Don't.
And my parents are divorced, soI told each one separately.
Don't talk about it.
Don't need to talk about it.
And my dad thought it was maybea phase that I'd go through and
talk to me.
I don't know.
He, we were riding up achairlift in Steamboat Springs.
Delbert (09:17):
This is as good as time, as any, yeah.
Okay.
Hess (09:19):
Yeah.
So we love you, but we don'tlove all of you.
Yeah.
And I love what Glennon Doylesaid one time when she came into
her love with.
With her partner with her wifethat, Hey I don't want you on my
island.
If you don't accept the wholeisland.
Hey, don't, I don't even wantyou to cross the bridge.
(09:40):
Yeah.
But you like being such a goodfriend of you.
Don't you have no idea?
Because we don't know what wedon't know.
I don't know what it's like tobe in black skin.
We don't know what we don'tknow.
You don't know what it was likefor me?
Delbert (09:53):
And
Hess (09:53):
just.
Delbert (09:55):
and I hate that prohibited you from fully being
alive during those, do you knowwhat I mean?
Like fully engaging and feelingpart of everything.
I really, I hate that.
Hess (10:09):
You touched on Adelbert because it wasn't like full
aliveness.
Delbert (10:12):
It wasn't your f you weren't fully alive.
And, I've had people tell me, myhigh school experience was not
that fun.
And I say, oh my God, I washaving so much fun.
thought everybody was having asmuch fun as me.
And, in my immature high schoolmind, I'm like, come on
everybody.
And, only in my adult life am Irealizing, that I had people who
(10:37):
were struggling, and I hate Knowthat, and that I didn't, I
wasn't more help.
Hess (10:45):
Yeah.
And also, I got in relationshipwith somebody.
I was attracted to somebody.
I think the commonality was shewanted to be a parent and it's
something that was a missingtile on my ceiling.
And we parented together and Iwas not the biological mother.
Then she leaves with this childwhen he's three and a half, and
that was such a blow.
I had no legal right and thatwas just crazy because I was a
(11:09):
primary caregiver.
Took this person to court and soon, and that's all a long story,
but devastating and just that'swhen we were trying to get
rights and rights of ourrelationship, there was
something like 10,000 rightsthat, that some a gay person
didn't have that a heterosexualperson had.
(11:31):
Just crazy how many things, bigand small that you don't have a
right to.
So now, yeah, I've been inrelationship with Cathy, my
wife, for 30 years.
We adopted our son Lucas.
He's gonna be 26.
He's gonna be 26 in September.
Delbert (11:50):
both had, not any longer'cause he's an adult, but
you both had equal rights.
Hess (11:55):
No.
So
Delbert (11:56):
oh.
Hess (11:58):
let me.
Let me tell you this, about thatto do adoption.
Back in back in 99, 2000 that Italked to a social worker and
just we, Cathy and I decided toadopt from Guatemala.
Love, love Hispanic people.
Love, love Hispanic people.
Talking to a social worker, shesaid why are you why are you why
(12:20):
are you choosing Guatemala?
Oh, and another thing, Bert, Idid not share with the social
worker that Cathy and I arepartners because I was scared
that we wouldn't be able to,yeah, and also you weren't
allowed to do, to adopt as samesex couples.
We, you weren't allowed to adoptinternationally.
(12:42):
You're not allowed to adoptdomestically then.
And so I was the only person onour paperwork.
And when Sandy Hamilton, thesocial worker, came to inspect
the home to make sure we didn'thave poison underneath the sink
and stuff, and then we had afire extinguisher.
(13:03):
I I put away a few pictures.
Of just us as a couple.
Isn't that something?
Delbert (13:09):
Wow.
Hess (13:10):
But while I'm sitting with her, because who I am, it it,
you can't hide who I am.
She was telling me about someother folk that we know here in
Lexington that she was thesocial worker for, and she said,
and I'm not gonna say any names,but it's a lesbian couple and
she said.
You just seem so grounded and sowith it, you just seem like you
(13:32):
have it, you have your lifetogether so much just like blah,
blah, blah.
And I smiled because blah, blah,blah.
They're gay.
And, it makes me think justhumorously, like sometimes a
relationship, all it might needis a, is another woman or
somebody was telling me abouthow tough their relationship is
and I'm saying like, maybe youneed to be with a woman and you
(13:52):
wouldn't have these problems,but communication.
Anyway when Sandy's at thehouse, I don't tell her I'm in
relationship with Cathy, and theadoption goes through, she calls
on September 24th.
It's a healthy baby boy.
Born September 4th.
We're elated, so excited.
And anyway, it wasn't until theSupreme Court.
(14:17):
Cathy went with me to Guatemala.
Cathy's been a co-parent thewhole way, a hundred percent.
She's holding Lucas on theveranda in Guatemala City.
We just got him that afternoon.
She's looking into his eyes.
He's looking into her eyes.
She's got him on her kneestaring at, and she says, if I
(14:38):
was rich, I'd have eight ofthese.
Delbert (14:40):
Oh.
Hess (14:41):
So she was totally, she totally in is loved being a mom.
Loved being a mom to Lucas.
Anyway, it wasn't until theSupreme Court made the verdict
that there could be gay marriageor gay marriages could be
honored that that Cathy was, andwe went through, we got married
and she was able to have legalrights.
(15:02):
So Lucas is about 14 years oldwhen that happens.
Delbert (15:07):
Okay.
Hess (15:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that made me feel so muchmore at ease.
And of course I had all thelegal doc documents done and
hard conversations with mybrother and sister that if
something happens to me, youcan't just, we swoop in here and
take Lucas.
'cause you're quote unquote.
Next Tokin Kath, Cathy's a fullfledged parent.
And back then Delbert, if Cathydid adopt Lucas before we got
(15:30):
gay marriage rights, if she didadopt Lucas.
I would have to give up myrights so it wasn't gonna be
equal.
Yeah.
Delbert (15:39):
Wow.
Hess (15:40):
Yeah.
Delbert (15:42):
Look at all the rights, just in that one little story
that human beings deserve tohave.
All humans.
And when Hess and I decided totalk about this, I I said, for
sure you need to tell your storyand.
Coming at it as a as a straightperson.
(16:02):
I'm just gonna share a littlestory Hess.
Has this wonderful couple that'sfriends of hers that came into
town and went to the, one of theSacred Heart State Championships
with us.
And I had just never met'em, butI was in the back walking with
one of'em and she was telling mehow she and her wife fell in
love and married we just endedup holding hands.
(16:24):
And I said, I just wanna tellyou, that is just beautiful and
I love.
That you're married and I loveyour relationship.
And she said, you're the onlystraight Catholic that's ever
said that to me.
And I just said I'm gonna keepbeing that straight Catholic.
wanna tell people that JesusChrist loved everyone.
(16:45):
He did not judge anyone.
We're all to be judged equallyand loved equally.
And anyone that.
Says they're a Christian andwants to take the rights away of
any individual because theydon't understand.
I'm here to tell you right thisminute, that's not Christ-like,
Hess (17:07):
Not at all.
Not at all.
Delbert (17:11):
it ain't easy being Catholic, we get a lot of bad
press and rightfully the trueteaching to just love everyone.
As you love yourself.
I stick with that and I reallyhope that our new Pope Leo comes
out and goes even further.
in regards to the L-G-B-T-Qcommunity than Pope Francis did.
(17:35):
I love Pope Francis.
He was older.
We need to go further in, inblessing and acknowledging
these.
These marriages and just leteveryone get married in the
church if that's their faith ofchoice.
Let's lift everybody up andsupport everybody.
I think.
I think we're on the right sideof history when it comes to
immigration.
(17:56):
That's beautiful.
I love it.
love everybody.
let's include everybody in thefold.
Hess (18:05):
It.
Not being able to see, be seenor be acknowledged that like
when we are, when we're workingtowards our gay rights.
Now let me say this about thatand give you all a little
historical context because Ithink it was the end of June in
June 28th, 1969, it was theStonewall uprising and back then
(18:28):
in, in New York City.
You couldn't serve a gay personalcohol you you were arrested
for wearing fewer than threearticles of clothing that match
your sex serving alcoholbeverages to homosexuals were
pro prohibited from married menand women who lived homosexual,
and that's what a lot of peopledid.
(18:48):
Just while you're supposed toget married and you get married,
but you're not full all inbecause you, it's not a match.
You don't.
But you might really love thisperson, but it's not your sexual
orientation.
So many people married a acrosstheir gender but not their true
sexual identity.
So anyway,
Delbert (19:08):
fully alive, as we said about you in high school and
college not
Hess (19:12):
right?
Delbert (19:13):
alive.
Hess (19:14):
So they're they're living their lives in secret.
These couples and blackmail wasa constant threat to these
couples.
And so discrimination and fear,they were just tools to isolate
people when homosexual, sohomosexuality was hidden, and I
was just at the beautifulhealing place in Louisville on
Friday, touring it with JayDavidson, and of course he says
(19:38):
again, that, that addiction is.
Is being isolated.
So isolation having soisolation's always bad.
It causes it's true addiction.
When you're separate.
So isolating homosexuality,having us be in a closet, not
being able to be ourself, ourfull life self.
It's not healthy.
(19:59):
It's not healthy.
So after the Stonewall uprisingearly, this one morning when the
bar got raided and it got raidedfrequently.
The people pushed back in thebar and it was a long slug fest.
And over there in ChristopherPark, across the street liberate
Christopher Street, everybodywas yelling.
(20:21):
And there was also, this is abyproduct.
The youth who gathered atChristopher Park, some of them
homeless with little socialcapital, right?
They challenged the police,linked arms, formed a blockade.
Youth would be kicked out oftheir families because they were
gay, because of who they are andtheir sexuality.
And one of my partners wasafraid to come out because she
(20:42):
was a school teacher back thenwhen I was in early
relationship.
And so the Stonewall happened inI think that's probably why gay
Pride Month is, in June, Iremember some of our past
presidents who would light upthe outside of the White House
with all the colored lights.
Wasn't that cool to see?
Delbert (21:03):
I love that and I
Hess (21:04):
Beautiful.
Delbert (21:04):
governor takes up for young L-G-B-T-Q community, even
though we're really Republican,heavy in the rest of our
government.
And I love that he said his whywas being a Christian, I love
that.
If
Hess (21:20):
Right.
Delbert (21:20):
your why
Hess (21:23):
yeah,
Delbert (21:24):
to come to an understanding Exactly.
Hess (21:27):
yeah.
And Cathy and I in mycertification and what I do for
my individuals and couples is wedo a Getting the Love You Want
workshop.
And many of my colleagues wouldgive a straight workshop.
They give a gay workshop.
I.
The Getting The Love You WantWorkshop that Cathy and I
attended in 1997, Helen Andrewsin the Maggie Valley of North
(21:50):
Carolina.
I always put that on there.
At the Chattahoochee Ranch, shehas always given the Getting the
Love You Want Workshop for allcouples, gay or straight,
because she thought it was goodfor straight people to be around
gay people and just to see thatwe're people and we're in
relationship just like you are.
Delbert (22:06):
to that.
Amen to that.
I
Hess (22:08):
Yeah.
Delbert (22:09):
why they separated because surely we're all human
beings.
We have the same kinds ofstruggles, we all Same kind of
struggle.
Hess (22:17):
but Delbert, it goes back to, can you feel safe?
Delbert (22:22):
Ah.
Hess (22:23):
So we talked about assimilation that we don't
always have to all be the same.
We're accepted for who we are.
Black people can be accepted forwho black people are and their
diversity and their greatness.
They don't have to be just likewhite people for sure.
And gay people don't have to bejust like straight people in
their relationship.
Delbert (22:43):
Exactly.
Hess (22:43):
we don't, we assimilation.
No, we, we need to still seecolor.
We still need to be able to seediversity and talk about
diversity and to learn aboutdiversity.
Not be all alike.
Delbert (22:58):
Yes.
Be a boring world if we were allalike.
For
Hess (23:01):
Absolutely.
Delbert (23:02):
For sure.
Hess (23:04):
So what Stonewall, what?
What happened with Stonewall?
And there's a national monumentthere to Delbert and there's the
statues in the Christopher Park.
It's so cool.
You'll have to see that when yougo back up with one of your
darlings or with whoever.
So by the time of Stonewall,there might have been like 60
gay groups in all of the UnitedStates, and then a year later
(23:26):
there were 1500 gay groups, andthen two years later.
As the extent the accounts couldbe made, there was at least like
2,500.
So that's the impact ofStonewall and it's increased.
Manyfold and now it, now we havethis designated month, pride
month and one of my friends downat the barn, Jocelyn, she said,
(23:47):
seeing the gay pride flag out atthe end of the driveway when she
came in and I had a, I had a.
Pride shirt on.
She goes, my first gay prideparade was Washington DC and it
was just the funnest thing inthe world.
She said, I've never beenaround.
She said, and it was a long timeago, she said, and it was the
happiest, funnest people I'veever been around in my whole
(24:10):
life.
And it is.
It is because it's fullaliveness.
Be who you are,
Delbert (24:17):
Yes,
Hess (24:18):
love who you are.
Delbert (24:21):
that's a good, that's a good one.
Just love who you are.
Love yourself.
Hess (24:27):
Yeah.
Delbert (24:27):
in all your aliveness?
Hess (24:30):
Yeah.
And in your heterosexuality,just think about that, Bert.
How if you own who you are, it'sso different than other people's
heterosexuality, they're all,it's all different.
Delbert (24:41):
Absolutely.
Hess (24:42):
Yeah.
Love it.
I'm you just pump me up withsome good energy there.
Delbert (24:47):
Oh, good.
Good.
Hess (24:49):
I don't need to have caffeine.
Delbert (24:52):
Oh and I have to back off of it at a certain point in
the morning because I say, oh, Ican't have one more cup of
coffee.
Nobody will be able to stand me.
'Cause I'm kinda, chatty So doyou have any quotes for today or
are we just gonna leave peopleon?
Let's go out there and live ourlives.
Fully alive.
(25:13):
Fully alive,
Hess (25:15):
Everybody.
Exactly.
Anyway, yes that Stonewall riotis almost equal to like the
March on Selma and the SenecaFalls.
Okay.
All of these rights, own yourright as an individual.
I always say to people, thereyou are because you, you are
different than anybody.
(25:35):
Own it.
Regal it, have fun.
Dancing it, singing it, playingit.
Delbert, I love you.
You're individuality, you'relittle fire thing that you do in
your backyard.
Lightened colored paper and allof the individual things that
you all might do.
Listeners that as you own it, beit, share it.
(25:56):
Love it.
Delbert (25:56):
Be alike.
There you are.
We see you.
It's a worldwide movement.
Folks, look it up on Instagram.
We got t-shirts and welcomemats.
Hess has got such a creativemind and she does all the setup
for this podcast and all theediting and broadcasts it on all
(26:17):
our platforms.
So please and share and listen.
A lot of hard work goes into itand I just am gonna.
Get off here and go get ready towork the grill at Turner's while
Hess does all the hard work.
Hess (26:30):
Have fun baby.
Hey put some ice packs on yourneck or something because.
Delbert (26:34):
I'm gonna take a little baby cooler that I got at Kroger
for a dollar.
It's five years old, but it'slike still does not leak and
it's awesome.
I'm gonna pack a bunch of ice inthere for my shift for sure.
Hess (26:48):
Okay, y'all.
Peace and love.
We love you all.
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