May 3, 2022 • 47 mins
In this episode, I speak with Hannah Husband, who started her career as a personal trainer. In the process of interviewing dozens of clients, she found that every single woman had the goal of losing weight. It didn’t matter if she was a size 0 or a size 20, there was this shared idea that the smallest body was the best body. Hannah decided to make it her mission to investigate what it meant to help her clients liberate their bodies— to move in the ways that felt good, to give attention to a body part that was asking for care, and to gain strength rather than only lose weight.
In Oakland, California, Hannah opened her studio, The Fitness Alchemists. Hannah was renting space from a Cross-Fit gym, which ceased to work when she realized she was giving 150% with a 45% efficacy for her clients. It was clear that the work Hannah was doing could not survive in its current environment. Even though Hannah felt like she was running on empty, she opened her own studio space. But then Covid hit, and Hannah surrendered. Her body said it was time to stop.
Hannah and her partner agreed that they could afford 1 month of Hannah allowing herself to be still, to exist with purposeful nothingness and allow for her body and her soul to heal. Becoming an “empty vessel” let Hannah decide what she wanted to place back into her body and what was vital to let go of. She says, “Just let the things go that aren't for you. Let the effort that you’ve been pouring yourself into that isn’t serving you go. Let it go up in flames and then you have that beautiful clean slate.”
Some highlights in this Episode from Hannah:
"There was this universal, "I should probably lose x pounds", or "I should probably slim down this part." And something in my brain was like, wait a minute, even people who look like the standard still feel like this. Maybe the system is rigged, like maybe we're all being sold a bad deal here. And I realized that there's no arriving."
"And there's righteous anger, which is generally something that was not allowed for me and my family of origin, but we need that actually. It's a really cleansing force in our beings."
"I call myself a recovering perfectionist. So there's this drive to get it right. I don't feel like I'm doing enough unless I'm working hard. There was a connection between effort and worthiness."
Don't Miss a Beat.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hannah Husband (00:10):
Welcome back.
I'm so glad you're here. You'relistening to let perfect burn.
Today, I sit down with Hannahhusband, who started her career
as a personal trainer. And inthe process of interviewing
dozens of clients, she foundthat every single woman had the
goal of losing weight. It didn'tmatter if she was a size zero,
(00:34):
or a size 20, there was theshared idea that the smallest
body was the best body. SoHannah decided to do something
different. Hannah opened her ownstudio in Oakland, California,
dedicated to movement in a bodypositive, intuitive way.
Initially renting space from aCrossFit gym, it became clear
(00:55):
that this could not be a homefor her work. So Hannah opened a
private space, but then COVIDhit, and everything fell apart.
Hannah's break downs, and bodypain, told her it was time to
stop. She walks us through whatit meant to become an empty
vessel. And in doing so, thegifts that filled her body.
(01:30):
I am here today with Hannahhusband, a body liberation
coach. And she writes that she'scommitted to supporting folks
who feel left out of or harmedby mainstream fitness offerings.
So first of all, welcome,Hannah. Thank you. It's so nice
to reconnect. Han and I wereactually talking before we
(01:51):
started recording about how Iwas trying to pay for grad
school, working the 5am shift atthe gym where they were a
personal trainer. And how afterthe gym, I usually just got
nachos and a beer so great.
Unknown (02:10):
Perfect isn't a valid choice. Yeah,
Hannah Husband (02:12):
exactly. It was I enjoyed it. So Hannah, I would
love if you could just say alittle bit more about what it
means to be a body liberationcoach.
Unknown (02:23):
Yeah, so I mean, this is full disclosure, definitely
still a title that I'm feel likeI'm trying on. I've been trying
to relate a lot of things in mylife to my favorite childhood
game, which was playing dressup.
Hannah Husband (02:37):
So I'm trying it on, wearing it around the house,
seeing how it feels. And for me,it
sort of hard to explain what itis without talking about what it
isn't. And, you know, as youknow, I started as a personal
trainer, and so much of PersonalTraining and Fitness. And really
like, where I saw my value as apersonal trainer was in telling
(02:59):
people what to do and what notto do. And so there's a sense of
like, you hire someone in thefitness coaching realm to
essentially hand over yourautonomy to in a lot of ways.
And for me, like that alwaysfelt weird, and, and kind of
wrong, but also sort of like,wow, this is how I make money.
(03:19):
So okay. And for me bodyliberation practice, and
coaching is about reconnectingto being able to listen to your
own body, trusting yourself asthe expert of your physical,
emotional mental experience, andkind of helping folks like
(03:40):
relearn how to do that, becauseit's not something were
culturally encouraged to do.
Exactly. And who are yourclients that you're working with
right now?
Unknown (03:52):
Um, so it's a range of folks, but I would say like, the
common threads, mostly women.
Although I've definitely hadsome wonderful male clients. A
lot of times for me, it's womenwho have had like a very
restrictive or kind of obsessiverelationship with food and or
(04:16):
exercise and who are in recoveryfrom that way of thinking and
really committed to a differentway of being but kind of like,
how do I get movement back intomy life if it's not this thing
that it used to be? So that'skind of one camp the other camp
are people who have like, alwaysconsidered themselves sort of
(04:38):
not physical and that could bejust a mental story that could
be because they're differentlyabled, or they have chronic
illness or chronic pain. And sothere's been this kind of
contentious relationship withmovement because they never
quite found a way in that waslike welcoming to them.
Everything, like hurt them. Andthey're like, Okay, that's not
(05:01):
for me.
Hannah Husband (05:05):
And I'm just trying to give our listeners
just a little sense of what itwould be like to be in a room
with you like, how is itdifferent than if I were to be
in a room with you as a personaltrainer?
Unknown (05:18):
Yeah, yeah. So, for example, part of the sort of
warm up that I do with myclients, when we have a session
is some kind of body scan, whereI'm encouraging them to be
present with each part of theirbody. Um, sometimes we'll do
that with touch, where youactually just like, gently touch
(05:40):
yourself and make like,pleasurable contact with each
part of your body. Sometimeswe'll do that mentally.
Sometimes we'll do that withmovement. Okay, you're gonna
move your neck, you're gonnamove your shoulders, you're
gonna move your ribcage. Butessentially, like starting the
practice, always with a way ofyou checking in with yourself to
be like, what's here today? Whoneeds attention today? And then
Hannah Husband (06:06):
I think the other thing that's really
different is that I ask a lot ofquestions often and early
sessions people are like, seemsort of like surprised by that,
because I think they're used toa trainer being like, now do
this for eight reps. Now do thisfor 12 reps. And there's a lot
of like, how did that feel? Whatwould you like to do? So there's
a lot more choice in mysessions. And I really think of
(06:28):
myself as like, a resource. Sowe do the scan, say the hip is
wanting some attention. I'mlike, Cool. Do you feel like you
know, some moves that you'd liketo give that hip? Or do you want
to like source from the greaterlibrary that I have? And
sometimes they'll be like, Oh,no, I really want to do that one
that we did last week, I'll belike, Great, let's do it. Or
(06:48):
they'll be like, it feels likenothing I know, is quite the
right thing. I'm like, okay,cool. Let's assess and
investigate and figure out like,what that what the sensations
you're feeling, are telling you,and then what kind of movement
inputs your body's asking for.
I just, I don't know. All of asudden, I felt like it's almost
(07:10):
like a body therapist.
Unknown (07:12):
I mean, my friend and client, Courtney, who she was
like, you're kind of like arelationship therapist, or a
couples therapist between me andmy body. And I was like, I'm not
mad about that inscription.
Hannah Husband (07:26):
Yes. No, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
And, you know, we, we brieflytouched on it, but could you
give us a sense of what was yourjourney to this point? You know,
(07:48):
what, what were the moments thatmade you, you know, switch gears
and begin a life that looks likewhat you have now?
Unknown (07:55):
Yeah, man. So many, I'll try to pick a
Hannah Husband (08:00):
few. Yes, no, we're here. We're here.
Unknown (08:05):
So yeah, I mean, I, you know, when you met me, when I
was working at that gym, I wasdefinitely I was doing what I
now call body positive light,where I was like, I had kind of
embraced that weight lossshouldn't be the goal at all
costs, right. But I was stillbelieving that a smaller body
(08:26):
was a healthier body, andtherefore a better body. And
that has since shifted for me,but at that time, I hadn't
questioned that equation, if youwill. And, you know, I
definitely got into fitnessbecause I was trying to be an
actor and was like, oh, onlypeople who look a certain way
(08:47):
are getting cast in lead roles.
So I guess I'd better try mybest to look as much like that
as I can. So it was definitelycoming from a place of like, I'm
not good enough as I am. And Ineed to change to fit this
standard so that I can passthrough this tiny little, you
know, needle hole to become aprofessional actor. Yes. And as
(09:10):
I started working with people asa personal trainer, one of the
things one of the first thingsthat really glimmered for me in
terms of like, oh, like, we'dhave these two, you probably
remember, we had two freesessions with every member who
signed up for the gym. So I dida bunch of those, right? And in
(09:30):
the session, you talked to theperson that like, Hey, what are
your goals? What's gotten inyour way? You know, what would
you ideally want for yourself?
And I started to notice thatliterally every single woman I
sat across from at those littleround Cafe tables had something
about losing weight or shrinkingher body. And what I noticed as
(09:53):
the observer was that it didn'tseem to matter what people look
like whether they were a sizezero size two Who says 12?
Whether they were in theirmidlife or early life, like,
there was this universal, Ishould probably lose x pounds,
or I should probably slim downthis part. And something in my
(10:15):
brain was like, wait a minute,even people who look like the
standards still feel like this.
Maybe the system is rigged, likemaybe we're all being sold a bad
deal here. And I kind ofrealized that, like, there's no
arriving. Like I tricked myselfinto like, if I changed my body
enough, then I'll be okay, thenI'll relax, then my life can
(10:39):
start basically. Right. And likelistening to so many different
women, some of whom, you know,at that time, I would have been
like, you don't need to lose anyweight conversation for another
day about that sentence. But inmy brain at that time, right. I
was just like, oh, like there isno arrival, the goalpost just
(11:02):
keeps moving. And we're all justgoing to stay in this hamster
wheel of not enough need to workharder kind of situation. So
that was a that was a big kindof like, initial sort of
guideposts, that made me belike, Okay, maybe there's
something else to explore here.
(11:24):
And then, once I was set up withmy own business in California, I
had a really wonderful clientwho wrote me this like beautiful
intake form, like it was like anovel, I still remember passages
of it really vividly. And shekind of really poured her heart
(11:45):
out and was like, I had thisreally tortured relationship
with my body. I was stuck inloops of dieting and trying to
lose weight for a really longtime. I'm now the largest I've
ever been. But I'm also the mostat peace with myself that I've
ever been. And I really justwant someone to help me get
stronger. Because there's thingsI want to do physically that
(12:05):
right now I feel like I don'thave the stamina or the strength
to do. Can you help me withthat? And essentially, she was
saying, Are you the kind oftrainer who will help me get
strong but not sort of force meto try to lose weight at the
same time. And I was like, 100%,because at that time, even
though I still was believingthat smaller and lighter was
healthier. I was also like,respect the goal of the client,
(12:28):
like don't have a secret agendafor them. Yeah, yeah.
And so we ended up workingtogether in person for a few
months while she was in town,and then like, over the
interwebs, for a number of yearswhen she moved back to Europe.
And it was during that phase oflike virtual sessions, where
(12:49):
most I was just listening, andthen asking questions, and we
would do a little bit ofmovement stuff over the video,
but a lot of it was really justhelping her sort through her own
thoughts and experiences. And soI got to sort of be a fly on the
wall to witness the way that themedical system treats folks in
larger bodies. And it isappalling. Like, yes, just
(13:17):
whatever you're going in for, ifyou're showing up in a larger
body, the first thing that theyprescribe is weight loss.
Instead of actually being like,Oh, your knee hurts. Let's get
you some assessment there.
They're like, Well, it's becauseyou're too heavy and you need to
lose weight. It's like, okay,how am I supposed to do that?
Oh, diet and exercise? How am Isupposed to exercise when My
knee hurts? Just going up anddown stairs? Right, and they
(13:38):
just don't have an answer forthat.
Hannah Husband (13:42):
It's a loop.
Yeah,
Unknown (13:44):
it's this horrible loop. So that kind of, I think
even more like lit this fireunder me of like, people should
have access to movement thatmakes their bodies feel and
perform better. That doesn'thave a weight loss price tag
(14:04):
attached to it.
Yeah, the pandemic hit, whichjust like exploded my whole
life. I had just opened a smallfitness studio with my then
business partner. And all of asudden we were like, Oh, we have
to cancel classes for two weeks.
Okay. We thought two weeksright.
Hannah Husband (14:31):
Oh, that was a hilarious. I remember I got a
meme from a friend of a mum.
Drinking a large Margaritasaying what happens when spring
break is two weeks longer.
Little did we know. We know. Butyou know, I know when you were
talking about and this is thefitness Alchemist. Yeah, the
(14:55):
company that you were saying tome that you would I'm consider
that a breaking point for you.
Could you talk a little bit moreabout
Unknown (15:05):
Yeah, man? So it started a little bit before we
open the studio to be honest, wewere, we were renting space from
a CrossFit gym that had opened.
And are you familiar withCrossFit? Do you have like a Oh,
I
Hannah Husband (15:26):
ever worry about? Okay. No, it's not for
me.
Unknown (15:31):
This was I had been judgey towards it from a
distance for a long time. Butthis was my first time being in
the middle of it and being like,Oh, okay. So, for context, and
for those listening, this gymwas like a giant warehouse. That
used to be like a car repairshop in downtown Oakland. So it
(15:52):
was like, really cold in thewinter, like really hot in the
summer, like just open, youknow, an echoey. And there'd be
me running my little like, smallgroup strength training class of
like four to five people, mostlywho fit the profile of the
clients that I describedearlier. So people who are like,
don't really think of themselvesas athletes are just kind of
(16:14):
getting into fitness for thefirst time, or they've had like
injuries that they're trying tonot hurt themselves again. And
the next to us is like, likehorde of like 20 people, mostly
shirtless men, who are like,hurling barbells overhead and
letting them crash to the groundand then running over and doing
burpees. And then climbing ropesand doing box jumps. All speed?
(16:38):
Yeah, yeah. It's so cute. Justso cute. And like, it was just
this really interesting contrastthat I think, honestly, I think
it helps strengthen my like, oh,yeah, we need something
different. Like, this is greatfor these people. But it's not
(16:58):
great for everyone. No. Andwhere was I going with that?
Right? So we had a pretty goodaccord, like the the space was
kind of an L shape. And we hadthis little corner off to the
side. And I didn't realize howmuch privacy it felt like that
little corner afforded us untilthe owner decided to rearrange
(17:19):
how the space was being usedover the winter break. And when
we came back, we were now inthis little strip between like
floor to ceiling windows onHarrison Street, which is like a
major street going through. Sowalking by people driving by
buses going by, and then theclasses and there was no like
(17:40):
physical barrier anymore to kindof delineate like, this is our
space, this is your space. Andmy clients were like, we feel
really exposed. And I was like,yeah,
Hannah Husband (17:53):
yeah, and it
Unknown (17:53):
was really hard to
Hannah Husband (17:54):
focus. And there's not an intimacy that
feels like it's required.
Unknown (17:59):
Right, right. Right.
And we were, you know, we werestarting to integrate a lot of
the work that I do now, which iscalled functional range
conditioning, which is aboutlike, essentially, partnering
your nervous system with yourphysical body. So like finding
your end range of a stretch,really feeling into like, Where
does your body say no furtherthan this. And then like hanging
(18:22):
out there and doing some, likestrength training stuff there.
So you really need to be able tolike listen in to your
sensations and like a verysubtle level, which was pretty
much impossible in that space.
So I felt like I was giving 150%effort to have maybe like a 45%
(18:45):
efficacy in terms of my like,effectiveness as a coach. And it
was just like, super exhausting.
And I just like yeah, I was itwas hard to unpack in the
moment. What I understand now isthat like, for whatever reason,
that sudden change ofenvironment, basically like
(19:06):
lanced sort of bubble of likestored traumatic grief that was
hiding in my body somewheresince I had been a little child.
And all of a sudden, that wasjust like, bubbling to the
surface. So I was like, sobbingfor 10 to 20 minutes a day, most
days. And I was in goodsupportive hands with my
(19:30):
therapist who was like you justneed to make space for this to
come forward. It's going toclear you're gonna you're going
through a restructuring was whathe said. But like, because I was
just like, randomly burstinginto tears and then sobbing
uncontrollably for anywhere fromyou know, two to 10 minutes. I
(19:53):
was like, How do I do thingslike How do I make decisions
about the future of my businesswhen like, I'm getting
emotionally overwhelmed if like,my sandwich falls on the floor?
(20:15):
So yeah, that was definitely apersonal kind of breaking point
where I just looking back now Irealized that I was just
crumbling under the pressure ofmy expectations of myself. And
(20:37):
realizing how much I was runningmy life prioritizing other
people's needs instead of myown. I know you said
Hannah Husband (21:01):
that this breaking point, there was a body
wound. Oh, yes. What that means
Unknown (21:08):
totally well, so simultaneously, during this
time, just to add funsies, tothe whole mix, I suddenly had
like, really intense low backpain, which I had never had in
my life. And so I couldn't demoa lot of the movements that I
was teaching. I couldn't, in therearranging of the space, we
(21:32):
were on the far end, all theweights were on the other end.
So in order to bring equipmentover, like kettlebells, and
stuff, you'd have to like farmor carry them across the whole
length of the gym. And like, Ifinally had to be like, I can't
do that. Every time I do that itflares up my back. And so I had
to get really creative and belike, okay, my clients who are
the strongest, can you help mefirst thing in the morning,
(21:54):
like, do this or I'd like try toget the CrossFit kids to help
me. But it was just like, reallyweird to be not physically able
to do whatever I needed to do.
That was really probably thefirst time in my life that that
has ever happened. Like I've hadother injuries and stuff. But
this was like, it was like theright side of my sacrum and up
(22:15):
into my lower back. So like,most movements were limited and
affected by that. And all thethings that I knew that I would
normally help my clients with,when they would have a similar
complaint weren't changingthings for me. And so both like,
undermined my sense of likecapability as a coach, I was
(22:42):
like, I can't even help myself.
Like, who what? Who do I think Iam trying to help other people.
And, yeah, finally, I ended upconnecting with this incredible
body worker who did kind of likenervous system reset stuff is
(23:03):
the best way I can describe it.
And her treatment helped. Butwhat she really gave me was, she
was like, You need to rest. Andshe turned me on to these guided
meditations. I've never been onefor guided meditations up to
that point. But she turned me onto a particular I can't think of
her name now, Sarah, somethingwho's on like, one of those free
(23:26):
apps, right. And like, forwhatever reason, this particular
woman's voice I could, like,listen to, and slow down and
like lay down and like breathinginto that part of my back. And
like letting myself restwhenever I felt the impulse was
the thing that started to changemy course.
(23:54):
I call myself a recoveringperfectionist. So there's this,
there's this drive to get itright. That I think is somewhat
innate, and then somewhat alsodeveloped as like a protective
strategy in my early life,because there's some stuff that
was going on there. And then oneof the ways that that manifests
(24:14):
itself is like, I don't feellike I'm doing enough unless I'm
working hard. There's thisconnection that now as I'm
working on interrupting, butthere, there was a connection
between, like, effort andworthiness. Like I might not be
there yet, but I'm workingreally hard. Do you see me
working really hard?
Hannah Husband (24:39):
And if I'm not working, will you catch me?
Unknown (24:44):
Huh? Yeah, no, I did not trust that anyone would
catch me. It was like, I got todo it all myself. Can't rely on
anybody. Yeah. Well, and theother thing I had been like, I
had been like trying alldifferent practitioners. I was
going to this car Practice thisother chiropractor, acupuncture,
that kind of like, what's thekid's story? Will you be my
(25:05):
mother? Will you be my mother?
Like it was like that, right?
Where I was like someone's gonnahave the thing to fix me. And
nobody did. And finally I kindof realized that pattern. And
yeah, there was a way that thelike the guided meditations were
(25:28):
about like surrender and notdoing and just giving myself a
space to just be with what waswithout having a desire to shift
it
Hannah Husband (25:52):
when you open a new studio, yeah, after the one
that was attached to theCrossFit, yeah. Can you talk
about how where you went fromthere? So you're having kind of
this emotional breakdown? Itsounds like physically your body
sort of revolting? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. But you go to a newstudio. Can you talk about that
journey?
Unknown (26:14):
Yeah. So somehow, amidst the breakdown, my
business partner was like, Ithink we need our own space, I
feel really certain about it, Ireally want to do it with you.
So like, it's okay that youdon't have a lot of energy, like
we're gonna make this happen.
And we opened our own studio,like October of 2019. Oh, shoot,
yeah. In some ways, it feltgood. Like, when you go from a
(26:46):
really bad situation, to aslightly better situation, your
system is like, Yes, this isamazing. Everything is
wonderful. So I had like twoweeks of that. And then I like,
lost steam again, and was justlike, so tired. So terrified,
that I locked myself into thislife path that I didn't even
(27:09):
feel sure about. And I thinktoo, I just felt really
isolated. Like, one of thethings I've been learning about
myself recently is that like, Ilike to body double. So I love
having like someone either inthe same room, and we're just
doing our own things, or it'sworking. Okay, on Zoom,
(27:32):
actually, I've been doing body Wdates, but like, every work
situation that I'd ever had,like the CrossFit. It was
annoying, but I was in a spacewith other people who were doing
the same thing. So there's thatcollective like pool of energy
of like, we're doing our thing.
In our studio, I would be alone,and like, my clients would come
and go, and my classparticipants would come and go,
(27:54):
but there'd always be thisfeeling of like, I'm alone in
this space. I'm swimming in avoid, like. And so there, there
wasn't a lot of like, I'mdefinitely an extrovert, I get
energy from being around otherpeople. And so it was just like,
this
Hannah Husband (28:12):
draining, really, really draining.
Unknown (28:17):
And it felt, yeah, like, it felt too big. And I
felt too small. And so when thepandemic shut us down, like part
of me was relieved, and thenpart of me was disgusted that I
felt relieved. So that wasreally fun.
Hannah Husband (28:36):
Have an emotion, then beat yourself up for the
emotion. Really, really, reallyskilled? Exactly.
Unknown (28:43):
I have lots of practice with that one. Yeah, yeah. Have
a genuine feeling and then havelots of judgments towards
yourself for that feeling. Yeah.
That's how we keep it alltogether. I'm pretty sure. Yeah,
Hannah Husband (28:56):
I think so.
Yeah.
Unknown (29:02):
Um, so yeah, so the shutdown, while it was
devastating, also, there was apart of me that was like, This
is what I needed. Like I neededa full stop. And I needed like,
permission to imagine doingsomething completely different.
And I I wasn't finding a way togive myself that permission.
(29:38):
That break in continuity. Ithink that was the other thing.
I just I had really built up alot of worship for being
consistent. And the reality islike, that's not how who I am or
how I am if I'm left to my ownnatural ways of being I I have
(30:00):
really different energy week toweek and day to day. And I'd
been just convincing myself thatthat was something to fix or
change or, or create strategiesto minimize. Because especially
in fitness, right, likeconsistency is the holy grail.
(30:22):
And again, like the the, justthe emotional experience of the
pandemic, the way that our worldchanged so sharply and so
suddenly, and so irrevocably.
All of a sudden, I was like, Ijust couldn't be consistent. No.
And so I let myself not be forthe first time, maybe in my
(30:47):
adult life. And I like lookingback now, I'm so clear that that
was a really necessary, likemedicine for me in a way
Hannah Husband (31:01):
just to stop and sort of take stock. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, I hear you, Hannah,because I was a photographer.
Leading up to the pandemic. AndI was coming in, I came back
from my second son, I had all mygigs lined up, I had childcare,
I shot one gig, and it shutdown. And that was that. And,
(31:25):
like you, like you say, in themoment, it was devastating. I
thought I could never possiblyrebuild my business. I didn't,
you know, I was crushed that myprofessional life was again on
hold. And now I'm doing apodcast and I'm a writer, like,
me so much better, right? Butthere's, like, I couldn't, I
(31:45):
couldn't stop. Like, if Istopped the thing I was doing
that I was making money at then.
What did that mean about me?
Yeah, so I hear you quitting
Unknown (31:56):
is very unpopular in our current culture, like
stopping. It's okay to pivot. Ifyou have your next thing lined
up, it's okay to lean from tothe next thing. But don't you
dare just stop because you feelthat something's wrong, and you
don't know what's next. Andlike, for me, you know, so fast
(32:18):
forward from pandemic hitting tojust this past. Basically,
October of 2021, I began torealize that my business partner
and I were just different enoughthat collaboration was taking so
much energy from us, and that weneeded to part ways, which was
(32:40):
like, Well, I've been workingwith this person for the past
four years on this project. Andlike, even before that, we've
been working side by side at agym in Oakland. Before that, we
were working at the same gym inBoston, where you knew me like,
we had a long history of beingtogether and doing things side
by side. And so it was like,really scary to have that
(33:04):
realization. And also, my bodywas making it super clear. Like,
I would get out of meetings thatwe would have, and just be like,
exhausted and have to sort oflike 10 to myself for the rest
of the day. And so we began theprocess of separation. And part
(33:29):
of it was that like, I didn't, Icouldn't access vision around
what I wanted, I couldn't accessvision for where I wanted our
company to go. I had no cluewhat I wanted to do next, if I
were able to get out of thatbusiness. Like this is probably
the most woowoo thing I can willsay but the sort of guidance
(33:53):
that I was able to get in thatmoment of like so much not
knowing was empty the vesseljust the sense that I needed to
like set down, walk away nothave the new plan but actually
allow myself to be like a hollowcontainer and then the next
(34:18):
thing would would pour itperfect.
Hannah Husband (34:52):
Just struck by the people that I get the
privilege of talking to in theseinterviews, but just how brave I
always think that is right, itwas easier for you to keep
going. Right? It would just havebeen I mean, maybe not easier,
Unknown (35:09):
simpler. So yeah, for sure. For sure. The familiar
feels safer. Mm hmm.
Hannah Husband (35:17):
But to say like, I am willing to see what I am
when there's nothing in thereand let something new fill up
that feels terrifying.
Unknown (35:27):
Girl it was. It was scary.
Hannah Husband (35:33):
So what did that look like for you?
Unknown (35:36):
Ah, I mean, it looked like a lot of midwifing that
decision through therapy andcoaching definitely didn't
arrive at that on my own. Itlooked like having a
conversation with my partnerwhere I was like, Can we do
this? Is it okay, if I go tozero on income for like, a few
(36:00):
months? Unfortunately, we werein a position where we were
like, yeah, we can handle that.
You know, especially because itwas clear to me that I might not
pick back up with fitness in anyform at that moment. And so it
really felt like stepping offthe edge of a cliff into like
(36:24):
nothingness. For me, when I'mscared, giving time containers
helps. So I decided on fourweeks, I was like, Okay, I'm
going to take four weeks, themonth of December, right depths
of winter, to be purposefullyunproductive. And to really not
ask myself, to even think aboutwork, or try to imagine the new
(36:48):
possibilities, but to reallyjust like, shut down and like
allow complete hibernation. I'vebeen like, leaning into learning
about more cyclical livingrecently. So I kind of felt
aligned with like theseasonality of that. That kind
(37:08):
of winter metaphor of like goingunderground and like letting
myself be a dormant seed.
I don't know. I mean, I'm not.
I'm not one of those people thatlike struggles to take breaks,
I'm more so struggled to getenough work done. I'm definitely
like, I'm like, as soon assomeone's like, Hey, do you
(37:33):
wanna go for a walk? I'm like,Yes, let's go. Like, I don't get
fixated on my work. Even whenI'm really excited about a
project that I'm doing. I ammore. So I'm the other way where
I have to be like, Okay, thiscontainer is for work, things to
happen. And I am going to like,mute my phone and you know, turn
off all distractions, so I canactually get it done. I have
other friends who are like, howdo you make sure that you take
(37:57):
enough breaks, and I was like,That is not my struggle.
Hannah Husband (38:05):
I was recently learning though, that
perfectionism. That's actually atrait of perfectionist, really,
is that? Yeah, it doesn't make aton of sense, except, like
procrastination or puttingthings off. And there's like, a
pressure to get it right. Yeah.
And so we tend, like I cleanjunk drawers. Or I like to
cleaning. Yes. So there'ssomething about that, that is
(38:28):
actually something I canperfect, right? And making
really, like simple andbeautiful, rather than the thing
I'm doing that takes like anemotional piece of me and makes
it activate, right? Like thedrawer is way easier, right? So
I hear you on that
Unknown (38:45):
the drawer is a finite thing versus like, you know,
longer projects, like a book,or, you know, I'm working on
launching an online membershipcommunity. It's like, there's a
lot of pieces. And there isn'tlike a clear end point. And
there isn't like, it's not like,I can organize the things in the
(39:06):
drawer and then be like, done.
It's like, I have to like, try athing and then see how people
interact with it. And thenthere's going to be iteration on
top of that. And then there'sgoing to be iteration on top of
that. And like, there's so muchthat's outside of our control. I
think that's the where theperfectionist piece makes sense.
To me. It's like, too manyvariables I don't like.
Hannah Husband (39:27):
That's exactly, exactly. So you were just saying
you're launching an onlinemembership. Can you So you came
out of hibernation, right?
Unknown (39:37):
Right. That happened.
What? What does it look likegirl? Oh my gosh. So here's the
interesting thing. Probablylike, second week of December.
So like one week into my fourweeks of purposeful nothingness.
I started waking up naturally
between like 530 6 (39:55):
30am And I'd be like laying in bed. Just
being cozy and all of a suddenI'd get this like, fully formed
like download of like, Oh, Icould teach a workshop of this
technique. And that would be areally useful way to help
people, like begin theirmovement journey on their own
(40:15):
terms like in the way that I'mthinking of it now. Oh, I think
the membership community isabout this and needs to say
these things. And like this isgoing to be just like, every
morning for like three weeksstraight. And because I had
committed to the not doing,like, I definitely felt that
impulse, like you're gettinginspiration, do it now. Okay,
(40:38):
keep your commitment toyourself, but also honor like
these gifts from the muse. Andso I would just like write them,
I literally have like a file ofnotes on my phone, I would just
try to write down enough that Iwould be able to come back to it
later and know what I meant, orwhat what the shape of the thing
was. But it was kind of like Iwas like, thank you, I'm gonna
(41:01):
tuck this away in this littletreasure chest because I'm not
doing things right now. And thatwas a wild experience. Because I
think I've had such a like, Ithink being an entrepreneur, or
being a small business owner,like there becomes this
extractive relationship withyour own creativity, where
you're like, I need to becreative. And I need a thing,
(41:23):
right? Especially with frickinsocial media, right? It's like
this constant mill of having toproduce content to be consumed,
and then it's gone. And then youhave to do it all over again.
And like, see, I have somefields about that.
Hannah Husband (41:38):
Yes. Share those fields. I was on I was on tick
tock for like three minutes, andI knew illness. And then
Instagram. Same thing. I'm like,I post about my pods. That's it,
because it's just like you weretalking about a container. I had
to put a container around it,cuz I was like, you could post
all day long. That's right.
Yeah, yeah. And
Unknown (42:00):
especially like Instagram, the more you post,
the more the other girl likesyou and Malala. Anyway, yes. So.
So yeah, so then in like,February, I was like, Okay, now
I have permission. And now thenI actually had excitement,
because I have this like,treasure trove of ideas that had
(42:22):
come to me, like so fullyformed, and without any effort.
And so I felt like I had energy.
I felt like I had excitement. Ididn't feel like I had any
structure. So that was kind ofinteresting in the beginning to
be like, how do I createcontainers that support me to be
the spontaneous being that I am.
(42:45):
But that sort of gives me thebest opportunity to do the
things that are important to me.
And that is an ongoing question.
But it has looked like joiningsome like online groups. So I'm
in this awesome like, six monthprogram that I call my anti
capitalist entrepreneursincubator. Not actually what
(43:08):
it's called. But it's that'skind of the vibe is like, if
we're not buying into this sortof hustle culture, capitalist
mindset of extraction andexploitation, if we are wanting
to have kind of an animistrelationship with our work and
our creative projects, wherelike, we believe that the thing
we're making is also making uswhat does that look like? And
(43:33):
how do we like make asustainable business out of
that? And so yeah, the biggestkernel that came to me during
the dark of winter was thisfeeling of like, we need a space
to create community to bond tohave a sense of belonging that
(43:59):
isn't based on talking about howwe're trying to lose weight. So
much of the so much intimacy inbetween femmes in particular
women in particular, is createdin our culture around like,
hatred of our bodies, what we'redoing to change them, what's
(44:19):
working, what isn't working, howbad we're being like, there's,
there's a lot of that it's sortof the like, acceptable small
talk cloak that we all greeteach other when. And when you
decide or learn that you can'tbe part of diet culture anymore,
(44:41):
that you can't commit tobelieving that a smaller body is
a better body. It sort of canfeel like you've left society
and it's like, well, how do Imake friends? Like how do I find
people? Folks who expressed alot of anxiety about like, going
into social situations with foodBecause typically, that then
(45:02):
provokes diety conversations.
So my goal for the community isreally to create a space where
folks can talk to each other.
So we're going to have monthly,like sharing circles, where
(45:22):
everybody gets 10 minutes tospeak, whatever is present for
them. How are you feeling aboutyour body, how's your
relationship with your body andmovement? What's most important
to you right now. And thedefault is that you'll just be
lovingly witnessed by the peoplethat are in the group with you.
And then if you want to use partof your time to ask for specific
(45:45):
support you can
Hannah Husband (45:58):
Hannah, this has been so awesome to have you on.
And just to close out, what doeslet perfect burn mean for you?
Unknown (46:07):
Who, well, I've been really connecting to all the
fire placements in myastrological chart lately. So
that's the first thing that popsup is just this idea of like,
it's actually healthy to burnthe wrong structures to the
ground. And there's a way thatlike, righteous anger, which is
(46:30):
generally something that waslike not allowed for me and my
family of origin and I think isnot permission a lot for fans or
people socialized female in ourworld, like, we need that
actually. It's like a reallycleansing force in our beings. I
also love the let part, rightbecause again, that's about not
(46:53):
doing it's like, let it burn.
Just let the things that aren'tfor you let the effort that
you've been pouring yourselfinto that isn't serving you let
it go up in flames. And then youhave that beautiful clean slate.
Hannah Husband (47:12):
Thank you so much, Hannah. It's been a
pleasure. You're most
Unknown (47:14):
welcome. Thanks for having me on. This was really
fun.
Hannah Husband (47:17):
Awesome. We'll talk soon. Okay, bye
Welcome back.
I'm so glad you're here. You'relistening to let perfect burn.
Today, I sit down with Hannahhusband, who started her career
as a personal trainer. And inthe process of interviewing
dozens of clients, she foundthat every single woman had the
goal of losing weight. It didn'tmatter if she was a size zero,
(00:34):
or a size 20, there was theshared idea that the smallest
body was the best body. SoHannah decided to do something
different. Hannah opened her ownstudio in Oakland, California,
dedicated to movement in a bodypositive, intuitive way.
Initially renting space from aCrossFit gym, it became clear
(00:55):
that this could not be a homefor her work. So Hannah opened a
private space, but then COVIDhit, and everything fell apart.
Hannah's break downs, and bodypain, told her it was time to
stop. She walks us through whatit meant to become an empty
vessel. And in doing so, thegifts that filled her body.
(01:30):
I am here today with Hannahhusband, a body liberation
coach. And she writes that she'scommitted to supporting folks
who feel left out of or harmedby mainstream fitness offerings.
So first of all, welcome,Hannah. Thank you. It's so nice
to reconnect. Han and I wereactually talking before we
(01:51):
started recording about how Iwas trying to pay for grad
school, working the 5am shift atthe gym where they were a
personal trainer. And how afterthe gym, I usually just got
nachos and a beer so great.
Unknown (02:10):
Perfect isn't a valid choice. Yeah,
Hannah Husband (02:12):
exactly. It was I enjoyed it. So Hannah, I would
love if you could just say alittle bit more about what it
means to be a body liberationcoach.
Unknown (02:23):
Yeah, so I mean, this is full disclosure, definitely
still a title that I'm feel likeI'm trying on. I've been trying
to relate a lot of things in mylife to my favorite childhood
game, which was playing dressup.
Hannah Husband (02:37):
So I'm trying it on, wearing it around the house,
seeing how it feels. And for me,it
sort of hard to explain what itis without talking about what it
isn't. And, you know, as youknow, I started as a personal
trainer, and so much of PersonalTraining and Fitness. And really
like, where I saw my value as apersonal trainer was in telling
(02:59):
people what to do and what notto do. And so there's a sense of
like, you hire someone in thefitness coaching realm to
essentially hand over yourautonomy to in a lot of ways.
And for me, like that alwaysfelt weird, and, and kind of
wrong, but also sort of like,wow, this is how I make money.
(03:19):
So okay. And for me bodyliberation practice, and
coaching is about reconnectingto being able to listen to your
own body, trusting yourself asthe expert of your physical,
emotional mental experience, andkind of helping folks like
(03:40):
relearn how to do that, becauseit's not something were
culturally encouraged to do.
Exactly. And who are yourclients that you're working with
right now?
Unknown (03:52):
Um, so it's a range of folks, but I would say like, the
common threads, mostly women.
Although I've definitely hadsome wonderful male clients. A
lot of times for me, it's womenwho have had like a very
restrictive or kind of obsessiverelationship with food and or
(04:16):
exercise and who are in recoveryfrom that way of thinking and
really committed to a differentway of being but kind of like,
how do I get movement back intomy life if it's not this thing
that it used to be? So that'skind of one camp the other camp
are people who have like, alwaysconsidered themselves sort of
(04:38):
not physical and that could bejust a mental story that could
be because they're differentlyabled, or they have chronic
illness or chronic pain. And sothere's been this kind of
contentious relationship withmovement because they never
quite found a way in that waslike welcoming to them.
Everything, like hurt them. Andthey're like, Okay, that's not
(05:01):
for me.
Hannah Husband (05:05):
And I'm just trying to give our listeners
just a little sense of what itwould be like to be in a room
with you like, how is itdifferent than if I were to be
in a room with you as a personaltrainer?
Unknown (05:18):
Yeah, yeah. So, for example, part of the sort of
warm up that I do with myclients, when we have a session
is some kind of body scan, whereI'm encouraging them to be
present with each part of theirbody. Um, sometimes we'll do
that with touch, where youactually just like, gently touch
(05:40):
yourself and make like,pleasurable contact with each
part of your body. Sometimeswe'll do that mentally.
Sometimes we'll do that withmovement. Okay, you're gonna
move your neck, you're gonnamove your shoulders, you're
gonna move your ribcage. Butessentially, like starting the
practice, always with a way ofyou checking in with yourself to
be like, what's here today? Whoneeds attention today? And then
Hannah Husband (06:06):
I think the other thing that's really
different is that I ask a lot ofquestions often and early
sessions people are like, seemsort of like surprised by that,
because I think they're used toa trainer being like, now do
this for eight reps. Now do thisfor 12 reps. And there's a lot
of like, how did that feel? Whatwould you like to do? So there's
a lot more choice in mysessions. And I really think of
(06:28):
myself as like, a resource. Sowe do the scan, say the hip is
wanting some attention. I'mlike, Cool. Do you feel like you
know, some moves that you'd liketo give that hip? Or do you want
to like source from the greaterlibrary that I have? And
sometimes they'll be like, Oh,no, I really want to do that one
that we did last week, I'll belike, Great, let's do it. Or
(06:48):
they'll be like, it feels likenothing I know, is quite the
right thing. I'm like, okay,cool. Let's assess and
investigate and figure out like,what that what the sensations
you're feeling, are telling you,and then what kind of movement
inputs your body's asking for.
I just, I don't know. All of asudden, I felt like it's almost
(07:10):
like a body therapist.
Unknown (07:12):
I mean, my friend and client, Courtney, who she was
like, you're kind of like arelationship therapist, or a
couples therapist between me andmy body. And I was like, I'm not
mad about that inscription.
Hannah Husband (07:26):
Yes. No, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
And, you know, we, we brieflytouched on it, but could you
give us a sense of what was yourjourney to this point? You know,
(07:48):
what, what were the moments thatmade you, you know, switch gears
and begin a life that looks likewhat you have now?
Unknown (07:55):
Yeah, man. So many, I'll try to pick a
Hannah Husband (08:00):
few. Yes, no, we're here. We're here.
Unknown (08:05):
So yeah, I mean, I, you know, when you met me, when I
was working at that gym, I wasdefinitely I was doing what I
now call body positive light,where I was like, I had kind of
embraced that weight lossshouldn't be the goal at all
costs, right. But I was stillbelieving that a smaller body
(08:26):
was a healthier body, andtherefore a better body. And
that has since shifted for me,but at that time, I hadn't
questioned that equation, if youwill. And, you know, I
definitely got into fitnessbecause I was trying to be an
actor and was like, oh, onlypeople who look a certain way
(08:47):
are getting cast in lead roles.
So I guess I'd better try mybest to look as much like that
as I can. So it was definitelycoming from a place of like, I'm
not good enough as I am. And Ineed to change to fit this
standard so that I can passthrough this tiny little, you
know, needle hole to become aprofessional actor. Yes. And as
(09:10):
I started working with people asa personal trainer, one of the
things one of the first thingsthat really glimmered for me in
terms of like, oh, like, we'dhave these two, you probably
remember, we had two freesessions with every member who
signed up for the gym. So I dida bunch of those, right? And in
(09:30):
the session, you talked to theperson that like, Hey, what are
your goals? What's gotten inyour way? You know, what would
you ideally want for yourself?
And I started to notice thatliterally every single woman I
sat across from at those littleround Cafe tables had something
about losing weight or shrinkingher body. And what I noticed as
(09:53):
the observer was that it didn'tseem to matter what people look
like whether they were a sizezero size two Who says 12?
Whether they were in theirmidlife or early life, like,
there was this universal, Ishould probably lose x pounds,
or I should probably slim downthis part. And something in my
(10:15):
brain was like, wait a minute,even people who look like the
standards still feel like this.
Maybe the system is rigged, likemaybe we're all being sold a bad
deal here. And I kind ofrealized that, like, there's no
arriving. Like I tricked myselfinto like, if I changed my body
enough, then I'll be okay, thenI'll relax, then my life can
(10:39):
start basically. Right. And likelistening to so many different
women, some of whom, you know,at that time, I would have been
like, you don't need to lose anyweight conversation for another
day about that sentence. But inmy brain at that time, right. I
was just like, oh, like there isno arrival, the goalpost just
(11:02):
keeps moving. And we're all justgoing to stay in this hamster
wheel of not enough need to workharder kind of situation. So
that was a that was a big kindof like, initial sort of
guideposts, that made me belike, Okay, maybe there's
something else to explore here.
(11:24):
And then, once I was set up withmy own business in California, I
had a really wonderful clientwho wrote me this like beautiful
intake form, like it was like anovel, I still remember passages
of it really vividly. And shekind of really poured her heart
(11:45):
out and was like, I had thisreally tortured relationship
with my body. I was stuck inloops of dieting and trying to
lose weight for a really longtime. I'm now the largest I've
ever been. But I'm also the mostat peace with myself that I've
ever been. And I really justwant someone to help me get
stronger. Because there's thingsI want to do physically that
(12:05):
right now I feel like I don'thave the stamina or the strength
to do. Can you help me withthat? And essentially, she was
saying, Are you the kind oftrainer who will help me get
strong but not sort of force meto try to lose weight at the
same time. And I was like, 100%,because at that time, even
though I still was believingthat smaller and lighter was
healthier. I was also like,respect the goal of the client,
(12:28):
like don't have a secret agendafor them. Yeah, yeah.
And so we ended up workingtogether in person for a few
months while she was in town,and then like, over the
interwebs, for a number of yearswhen she moved back to Europe.
And it was during that phase oflike virtual sessions, where
(12:49):
most I was just listening, andthen asking questions, and we
would do a little bit ofmovement stuff over the video,
but a lot of it was really justhelping her sort through her own
thoughts and experiences. And soI got to sort of be a fly on the
wall to witness the way that themedical system treats folks in
larger bodies. And it isappalling. Like, yes, just
(13:17):
whatever you're going in for, ifyou're showing up in a larger
body, the first thing that theyprescribe is weight loss.
Instead of actually being like,Oh, your knee hurts. Let's get
you some assessment there.
They're like, Well, it's becauseyou're too heavy and you need to
lose weight. It's like, okay,how am I supposed to do that?
Oh, diet and exercise? How am Isupposed to exercise when My
knee hurts? Just going up anddown stairs? Right, and they
(13:38):
just don't have an answer forthat.
Hannah Husband (13:42):
It's a loop.
Yeah,
Unknown (13:44):
it's this horrible loop. So that kind of, I think
even more like lit this fireunder me of like, people should
have access to movement thatmakes their bodies feel and
perform better. That doesn'thave a weight loss price tag
(14:04):
attached to it.
Yeah, the pandemic hit, whichjust like exploded my whole
life. I had just opened a smallfitness studio with my then
business partner. And all of asudden we were like, Oh, we have
to cancel classes for two weeks.
Okay. We thought two weeksright.
Hannah Husband (14:31):
Oh, that was a hilarious. I remember I got a
meme from a friend of a mum.
Drinking a large Margaritasaying what happens when spring
break is two weeks longer.
Little did we know. We know. Butyou know, I know when you were
talking about and this is thefitness Alchemist. Yeah, the
(14:55):
company that you were saying tome that you would I'm consider
that a breaking point for you.
Could you talk a little bit moreabout
Unknown (15:05):
Yeah, man? So it started a little bit before we
open the studio to be honest, wewere, we were renting space from
a CrossFit gym that had opened.
And are you familiar withCrossFit? Do you have like a Oh,
I
Hannah Husband (15:26):
ever worry about? Okay. No, it's not for
me.
Unknown (15:31):
This was I had been judgey towards it from a
distance for a long time. Butthis was my first time being in
the middle of it and being like,Oh, okay. So, for context, and
for those listening, this gymwas like a giant warehouse. That
used to be like a car repairshop in downtown Oakland. So it
(15:52):
was like, really cold in thewinter, like really hot in the
summer, like just open, youknow, an echoey. And there'd be
me running my little like, smallgroup strength training class of
like four to five people, mostlywho fit the profile of the
clients that I describedearlier. So people who are like,
don't really think of themselvesas athletes are just kind of
(16:14):
getting into fitness for thefirst time, or they've had like
injuries that they're trying tonot hurt themselves again. And
the next to us is like, likehorde of like 20 people, mostly
shirtless men, who are like,hurling barbells overhead and
letting them crash to the groundand then running over and doing
burpees. And then climbing ropesand doing box jumps. All speed?
(16:38):
Yeah, yeah. It's so cute. Justso cute. And like, it was just
this really interesting contrastthat I think, honestly, I think
it helps strengthen my like, oh,yeah, we need something
different. Like, this is greatfor these people. But it's not
(16:58):
great for everyone. No. Andwhere was I going with that?
Right? So we had a pretty goodaccord, like the the space was
kind of an L shape. And we hadthis little corner off to the
side. And I didn't realize howmuch privacy it felt like that
little corner afforded us untilthe owner decided to rearrange
(17:19):
how the space was being usedover the winter break. And when
we came back, we were now inthis little strip between like
floor to ceiling windows onHarrison Street, which is like a
major street going through. Sowalking by people driving by
buses going by, and then theclasses and there was no like
(17:40):
physical barrier anymore to kindof delineate like, this is our
space, this is your space. Andmy clients were like, we feel
really exposed. And I was like,yeah,
Hannah Husband (17:53):
yeah, and it
Unknown (17:53):
was really hard to
Hannah Husband (17:54):
focus. And there's not an intimacy that
feels like it's required.
Unknown (17:59):
Right, right. Right.
And we were, you know, we werestarting to integrate a lot of
the work that I do now, which iscalled functional range
conditioning, which is aboutlike, essentially, partnering
your nervous system with yourphysical body. So like finding
your end range of a stretch,really feeling into like, Where
does your body say no furtherthan this. And then like hanging
(18:22):
out there and doing some, likestrength training stuff there.
So you really need to be able tolike listen in to your
sensations and like a verysubtle level, which was pretty
much impossible in that space.
So I felt like I was giving 150%effort to have maybe like a 45%
(18:45):
efficacy in terms of my like,effectiveness as a coach. And it
was just like, super exhausting.
And I just like yeah, I was itwas hard to unpack in the
moment. What I understand now isthat like, for whatever reason,
that sudden change ofenvironment, basically like
(19:06):
lanced sort of bubble of likestored traumatic grief that was
hiding in my body somewheresince I had been a little child.
And all of a sudden, that wasjust like, bubbling to the
surface. So I was like, sobbingfor 10 to 20 minutes a day, most
days. And I was in goodsupportive hands with my
(19:30):
therapist who was like you justneed to make space for this to
come forward. It's going toclear you're gonna you're going
through a restructuring was whathe said. But like, because I was
just like, randomly burstinginto tears and then sobbing
uncontrollably for anywhere fromyou know, two to 10 minutes. I
(19:53):
was like, How do I do thingslike How do I make decisions
about the future of my businesswhen like, I'm getting
emotionally overwhelmed if like,my sandwich falls on the floor?
(20:15):
So yeah, that was definitely apersonal kind of breaking point
where I just looking back now Irealized that I was just
crumbling under the pressure ofmy expectations of myself. And
(20:37):
realizing how much I was runningmy life prioritizing other
people's needs instead of myown. I know you said
Hannah Husband (21:01):
that this breaking point, there was a body
wound. Oh, yes. What that means
Unknown (21:08):
totally well, so simultaneously, during this
time, just to add funsies, tothe whole mix, I suddenly had
like, really intense low backpain, which I had never had in
my life. And so I couldn't demoa lot of the movements that I
was teaching. I couldn't, in therearranging of the space, we
(21:32):
were on the far end, all theweights were on the other end.
So in order to bring equipmentover, like kettlebells, and
stuff, you'd have to like farmor carry them across the whole
length of the gym. And like, Ifinally had to be like, I can't
do that. Every time I do that itflares up my back. And so I had
to get really creative and belike, okay, my clients who are
the strongest, can you help mefirst thing in the morning,
(21:54):
like, do this or I'd like try toget the CrossFit kids to help
me. But it was just like, reallyweird to be not physically able
to do whatever I needed to do.
That was really probably thefirst time in my life that that
has ever happened. Like I've hadother injuries and stuff. But
this was like, it was like theright side of my sacrum and up
(22:15):
into my lower back. So like,most movements were limited and
affected by that. And all thethings that I knew that I would
normally help my clients with,when they would have a similar
complaint weren't changingthings for me. And so both like,
undermined my sense of likecapability as a coach, I was
(22:42):
like, I can't even help myself.
Like, who what? Who do I think Iam trying to help other people.
And, yeah, finally, I ended upconnecting with this incredible
body worker who did kind of likenervous system reset stuff is
(23:03):
the best way I can describe it.
And her treatment helped. Butwhat she really gave me was, she
was like, You need to rest. Andshe turned me on to these guided
meditations. I've never been onefor guided meditations up to
that point. But she turned me onto a particular I can't think of
her name now, Sarah, somethingwho's on like, one of those free
(23:26):
apps, right. And like, forwhatever reason, this particular
woman's voice I could, like,listen to, and slow down and
like lay down and like breathinginto that part of my back. And
like letting myself restwhenever I felt the impulse was
the thing that started to changemy course.
(23:54):
I call myself a recoveringperfectionist. So there's this,
there's this drive to get itright. That I think is somewhat
innate, and then somewhat alsodeveloped as like a protective
strategy in my early life,because there's some stuff that
was going on there. And then oneof the ways that that manifests
(24:14):
itself is like, I don't feellike I'm doing enough unless I'm
working hard. There's thisconnection that now as I'm
working on interrupting, butthere, there was a connection
between, like, effort andworthiness. Like I might not be
there yet, but I'm workingreally hard. Do you see me
working really hard?
Hannah Husband (24:39):
And if I'm not working, will you catch me?
Unknown (24:44):
Huh? Yeah, no, I did not trust that anyone would
catch me. It was like, I got todo it all myself. Can't rely on
anybody. Yeah. Well, and theother thing I had been like, I
had been like trying alldifferent practitioners. I was
going to this car Practice thisother chiropractor, acupuncture,
that kind of like, what's thekid's story? Will you be my
(25:05):
mother? Will you be my mother?
Like it was like that, right?
Where I was like someone's gonnahave the thing to fix me. And
nobody did. And finally I kindof realized that pattern. And
yeah, there was a way that thelike the guided meditations were
(25:28):
about like surrender and notdoing and just giving myself a
space to just be with what waswithout having a desire to shift
it
Hannah Husband (25:52):
when you open a new studio, yeah, after the one
that was attached to theCrossFit, yeah. Can you talk
about how where you went fromthere? So you're having kind of
this emotional breakdown? Itsounds like physically your body
sort of revolting? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. But you go to a newstudio. Can you talk about that
journey?
Unknown (26:14):
Yeah. So somehow, amidst the breakdown, my
business partner was like, Ithink we need our own space, I
feel really certain about it, Ireally want to do it with you.
So like, it's okay that youdon't have a lot of energy, like
we're gonna make this happen.
And we opened our own studio,like October of 2019. Oh, shoot,
yeah. In some ways, it feltgood. Like, when you go from a
(26:46):
really bad situation, to aslightly better situation, your
system is like, Yes, this isamazing. Everything is
wonderful. So I had like twoweeks of that. And then I like,
lost steam again, and was justlike, so tired. So terrified,
that I locked myself into thislife path that I didn't even
(27:09):
feel sure about. And I thinktoo, I just felt really
isolated. Like, one of thethings I've been learning about
myself recently is that like, Ilike to body double. So I love
having like someone either inthe same room, and we're just
doing our own things, or it'sworking. Okay, on Zoom,
(27:32):
actually, I've been doing body Wdates, but like, every work
situation that I'd ever had,like the CrossFit. It was
annoying, but I was in a spacewith other people who were doing
the same thing. So there's thatcollective like pool of energy
of like, we're doing our thing.
In our studio, I would be alone,and like, my clients would come
and go, and my classparticipants would come and go,
(27:54):
but there'd always be thisfeeling of like, I'm alone in
this space. I'm swimming in avoid, like. And so there, there
wasn't a lot of like, I'mdefinitely an extrovert, I get
energy from being around otherpeople. And so it was just like,
this
Hannah Husband (28:12):
draining, really, really draining.
Unknown (28:17):
And it felt, yeah, like, it felt too big. And I
felt too small. And so when thepandemic shut us down, like part
of me was relieved, and thenpart of me was disgusted that I
felt relieved. So that wasreally fun.
Hannah Husband (28:36):
Have an emotion, then beat yourself up for the
emotion. Really, really, reallyskilled? Exactly.
Unknown (28:43):
I have lots of practice with that one. Yeah, yeah. Have
a genuine feeling and then havelots of judgments towards
yourself for that feeling. Yeah.
That's how we keep it alltogether. I'm pretty sure. Yeah,
Hannah Husband (28:56):
I think so.
Yeah.
Unknown (29:02):
Um, so yeah, so the shutdown, while it was
devastating, also, there was apart of me that was like, This
is what I needed. Like I neededa full stop. And I needed like,
permission to imagine doingsomething completely different.
And I I wasn't finding a way togive myself that permission.
(29:38):
That break in continuity. Ithink that was the other thing.
I just I had really built up alot of worship for being
consistent. And the reality islike, that's not how who I am or
how I am if I'm left to my ownnatural ways of being I I have
(30:00):
really different energy week toweek and day to day. And I'd
been just convincing myself thatthat was something to fix or
change or, or create strategiesto minimize. Because especially
in fitness, right, likeconsistency is the holy grail.
(30:22):
And again, like the the, justthe emotional experience of the
pandemic, the way that our worldchanged so sharply and so
suddenly, and so irrevocably.
All of a sudden, I was like, Ijust couldn't be consistent. No.
And so I let myself not be forthe first time, maybe in my
(30:47):
adult life. And I like lookingback now, I'm so clear that that
was a really necessary, likemedicine for me in a way
Hannah Husband (31:01):
just to stop and sort of take stock. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, I hear you, Hannah,because I was a photographer.
Leading up to the pandemic. AndI was coming in, I came back
from my second son, I had all mygigs lined up, I had childcare,
I shot one gig, and it shutdown. And that was that. And,
(31:25):
like you, like you say, in themoment, it was devastating. I
thought I could never possiblyrebuild my business. I didn't,
you know, I was crushed that myprofessional life was again on
hold. And now I'm doing apodcast and I'm a writer, like,
me so much better, right? Butthere's, like, I couldn't, I
(31:45):
couldn't stop. Like, if Istopped the thing I was doing
that I was making money at then.
What did that mean about me?
Yeah, so I hear you quitting
Unknown (31:56):
is very unpopular in our current culture, like
stopping. It's okay to pivot. Ifyou have your next thing lined
up, it's okay to lean from tothe next thing. But don't you
dare just stop because you feelthat something's wrong, and you
don't know what's next. Andlike, for me, you know, so fast
(32:18):
forward from pandemic hitting tojust this past. Basically,
October of 2021, I began torealize that my business partner
and I were just different enoughthat collaboration was taking so
much energy from us, and that weneeded to part ways, which was
(32:40):
like, Well, I've been workingwith this person for the past
four years on this project. Andlike, even before that, we've
been working side by side at agym in Oakland. Before that, we
were working at the same gym inBoston, where you knew me like,
we had a long history of beingtogether and doing things side
by side. And so it was like,really scary to have that
(33:04):
realization. And also, my bodywas making it super clear. Like,
I would get out of meetings thatwe would have, and just be like,
exhausted and have to sort oflike 10 to myself for the rest
of the day. And so we began theprocess of separation. And part
(33:29):
of it was that like, I didn't, Icouldn't access vision around
what I wanted, I couldn't accessvision for where I wanted our
company to go. I had no cluewhat I wanted to do next, if I
were able to get out of thatbusiness. Like this is probably
the most woowoo thing I can willsay but the sort of guidance
(33:53):
that I was able to get in thatmoment of like so much not
knowing was empty the vesseljust the sense that I needed to
like set down, walk away nothave the new plan but actually
allow myself to be like a hollowcontainer and then the next
(34:18):
thing would would pour itperfect.
Hannah Husband (34:52):
Just struck by the people that I get the
privilege of talking to in theseinterviews, but just how brave I
always think that is right, itwas easier for you to keep
going. Right? It would just havebeen I mean, maybe not easier,
Unknown (35:09):
simpler. So yeah, for sure. For sure. The familiar
feels safer. Mm hmm.
Hannah Husband (35:17):
But to say like, I am willing to see what I am
when there's nothing in thereand let something new fill up
that feels terrifying.
Unknown (35:27):
Girl it was. It was scary.
Hannah Husband (35:33):
So what did that look like for you?
Unknown (35:36):
Ah, I mean, it looked like a lot of midwifing that
decision through therapy andcoaching definitely didn't
arrive at that on my own. Itlooked like having a
conversation with my partnerwhere I was like, Can we do
this? Is it okay, if I go tozero on income for like, a few
(36:00):
months? Unfortunately, we werein a position where we were
like, yeah, we can handle that.
You know, especially because itwas clear to me that I might not
pick back up with fitness in anyform at that moment. And so it
really felt like stepping offthe edge of a cliff into like
(36:24):
nothingness. For me, when I'mscared, giving time containers
helps. So I decided on fourweeks, I was like, Okay, I'm
going to take four weeks, themonth of December, right depths
of winter, to be purposefullyunproductive. And to really not
ask myself, to even think aboutwork, or try to imagine the new
(36:48):
possibilities, but to reallyjust like, shut down and like
allow complete hibernation. I'vebeen like, leaning into learning
about more cyclical livingrecently. So I kind of felt
aligned with like theseasonality of that. That kind
(37:08):
of winter metaphor of like goingunderground and like letting
myself be a dormant seed.
I don't know. I mean, I'm not.
I'm not one of those people thatlike struggles to take breaks,
I'm more so struggled to getenough work done. I'm definitely
like, I'm like, as soon assomeone's like, Hey, do you
(37:33):
wanna go for a walk? I'm like,Yes, let's go. Like, I don't get
fixated on my work. Even whenI'm really excited about a
project that I'm doing. I ammore. So I'm the other way where
I have to be like, Okay, thiscontainer is for work, things to
happen. And I am going to like,mute my phone and you know, turn
off all distractions, so I canactually get it done. I have
other friends who are like, howdo you make sure that you take
(37:57):
enough breaks, and I was like,That is not my struggle.
Hannah Husband (38:05):
I was recently learning though, that
perfectionism. That's actually atrait of perfectionist, really,
is that? Yeah, it doesn't make aton of sense, except, like
procrastination or puttingthings off. And there's like, a
pressure to get it right. Yeah.
And so we tend, like I cleanjunk drawers. Or I like to
cleaning. Yes. So there'ssomething about that, that is
(38:28):
actually something I canperfect, right? And making
really, like simple andbeautiful, rather than the thing
I'm doing that takes like anemotional piece of me and makes
it activate, right? Like thedrawer is way easier, right? So
I hear you on that
Unknown (38:45):
the drawer is a finite thing versus like, you know,
longer projects, like a book,or, you know, I'm working on
launching an online membershipcommunity. It's like, there's a
lot of pieces. And there isn'tlike a clear end point. And
there isn't like, it's not like,I can organize the things in the
(39:06):
drawer and then be like, done.
It's like, I have to like, try athing and then see how people
interact with it. And thenthere's going to be iteration on
top of that. And then there'sgoing to be iteration on top of
that. And like, there's so muchthat's outside of our control. I
think that's the where theperfectionist piece makes sense.
To me. It's like, too manyvariables I don't like.
Hannah Husband (39:27):
That's exactly, exactly. So you were just saying
you're launching an onlinemembership. Can you So you came
out of hibernation, right?
Unknown (39:37):
Right. That happened.
What? What does it look likegirl? Oh my gosh. So here's the
interesting thing. Probablylike, second week of December.
So like one week into my fourweeks of purposeful nothingness.
I started waking up naturally
between like 530 6 (39:55):
30am And I'd be like laying in bed. Just
being cozy and all of a suddenI'd get this like, fully formed
like download of like, Oh, Icould teach a workshop of this
technique. And that would be areally useful way to help
people, like begin theirmovement journey on their own
(40:15):
terms like in the way that I'mthinking of it now. Oh, I think
the membership community isabout this and needs to say
these things. And like this isgoing to be just like, every
morning for like three weeksstraight. And because I had
committed to the not doing,like, I definitely felt that
impulse, like you're gettinginspiration, do it now. Okay,
(40:38):
keep your commitment toyourself, but also honor like
these gifts from the muse. Andso I would just like write them,
I literally have like a file ofnotes on my phone, I would just
try to write down enough that Iwould be able to come back to it
later and know what I meant, orwhat what the shape of the thing
was. But it was kind of like Iwas like, thank you, I'm gonna
(41:01):
tuck this away in this littletreasure chest because I'm not
doing things right now. And thatwas a wild experience. Because I
think I've had such a like, Ithink being an entrepreneur, or
being a small business owner,like there becomes this
extractive relationship withyour own creativity, where
you're like, I need to becreative. And I need a thing,
(41:23):
right? Especially with frickinsocial media, right? It's like
this constant mill of having toproduce content to be consumed,
and then it's gone. And then youhave to do it all over again.
And like, see, I have somefields about that.
Hannah Husband (41:38):
Yes. Share those fields. I was on I was on tick
tock for like three minutes, andI knew illness. And then
Instagram. Same thing. I'm like,I post about my pods. That's it,
because it's just like you weretalking about a container. I had
to put a container around it,cuz I was like, you could post
all day long. That's right.
Yeah, yeah. And
Unknown (42:00):
especially like Instagram, the more you post,
the more the other girl likesyou and Malala. Anyway, yes. So.
So yeah, so then in like,February, I was like, Okay, now
I have permission. And now thenI actually had excitement,
because I have this like,treasure trove of ideas that had
(42:22):
come to me, like so fullyformed, and without any effort.
And so I felt like I had energy.
I felt like I had excitement. Ididn't feel like I had any
structure. So that was kind ofinteresting in the beginning to
be like, how do I createcontainers that support me to be
the spontaneous being that I am.
(42:45):
But that sort of gives me thebest opportunity to do the
things that are important to me.
And that is an ongoing question.
But it has looked like joiningsome like online groups. So I'm
in this awesome like, six monthprogram that I call my anti
capitalist entrepreneursincubator. Not actually what
(43:08):
it's called. But it's that'skind of the vibe is like, if
we're not buying into this sortof hustle culture, capitalist
mindset of extraction andexploitation, if we are wanting
to have kind of an animistrelationship with our work and
our creative projects, wherelike, we believe that the thing
we're making is also making uswhat does that look like? And
(43:33):
how do we like make asustainable business out of
that? And so yeah, the biggestkernel that came to me during
the dark of winter was thisfeeling of like, we need a space
to create community to bond tohave a sense of belonging that
(43:59):
isn't based on talking about howwe're trying to lose weight. So
much of the so much intimacy inbetween femmes in particular
women in particular, is createdin our culture around like,
hatred of our bodies, what we'redoing to change them, what's
(44:19):
working, what isn't working, howbad we're being like, there's,
there's a lot of that it's sortof the like, acceptable small
talk cloak that we all greeteach other when. And when you
decide or learn that you can'tbe part of diet culture anymore,
(44:41):
that you can't commit tobelieving that a smaller body is
a better body. It sort of canfeel like you've left society
and it's like, well, how do Imake friends? Like how do I find
people? Folks who expressed alot of anxiety about like, going
into social situations with foodBecause typically, that then
(45:02):
provokes diety conversations.
So my goal for the community isreally to create a space where
folks can talk to each other.
So we're going to have monthly,like sharing circles, where
(45:22):
everybody gets 10 minutes tospeak, whatever is present for
them. How are you feeling aboutyour body, how's your
relationship with your body andmovement? What's most important
to you right now. And thedefault is that you'll just be
lovingly witnessed by the peoplethat are in the group with you.
And then if you want to use partof your time to ask for specific
(45:45):
support you can
Hannah Husband (45:58):
Hannah, this has been so awesome to have you on.
And just to close out, what doeslet perfect burn mean for you?
Unknown (46:07):
Who, well, I've been really connecting to all the
fire placements in myastrological chart lately. So
that's the first thing that popsup is just this idea of like,
it's actually healthy to burnthe wrong structures to the
ground. And there's a way thatlike, righteous anger, which is
(46:30):
generally something that waslike not allowed for me and my
family of origin and I think isnot permission a lot for fans or
people socialized female in ourworld, like, we need that
actually. It's like a reallycleansing force in our beings. I
also love the let part, rightbecause again, that's about not
(46:53):
doing it's like, let it burn.
Just let the things that aren'tfor you let the effort that
you've been pouring yourselfinto that isn't serving you let
it go up in flames. And then youhave that beautiful clean slate.
Hannah Husband (47:12):
Thank you so much, Hannah. It's been a
pleasure. You're most
Unknown (47:14):
welcome. Thanks for having me on. This was really
fun.
Hannah Husband (47:17):
Awesome. We'll talk soon. Okay, bye
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