May 10, 2022 • 39 mins
In this episode, I speak with Whole Body Coach, Alyssa Keegan. Growing up in rural Michigan, Alyssa Keegan was working as a professional actor and voiceover artist. Alyssa got married and had a son, identifying during that period of their life as monogamous, straight and cis. Yet when Alyssa began their poly journey, they came to know their true self— polyamorous, pansexual, queer, kinky and gender non-conforming. When the pandemic hit and Alyssa lost their acting career, they decided to make a shift and dedicate their life to supporting others who found themselves questioning their identity and relationships later in life.
Alyssa takes us on their journey of self-attachment and self-love and how they became attuned to their reactions with their partners that came from a place of trauma response. Alyssa talks about falling apart and hitting rock bottom, but at the bottom, seeing that they were still there and that they would be okay. “I had practiced proving to my body that I was going to show up and take care of it. I was going to sit with the parts of myself, the little parts of myself, the defensive parts of myself and tell them all they were welcome there.”
In speaking about their clients, they say, “Letting the mind relax for a time is so informative, particularly when it comes to issues of insecurity, jealousy, or possessiveness. Whether you’re a client who is coming to me because you’re in a monogamous structure or a consensually non- monogamous structure, the foundation of every healthy relationship comes back to that relationship with yourself.”
Highlights from Alyssa:
" I teach my clients that from a scientific perspective, that the oldest part of our brain is rooted in your nervous system. And understanding that and being able to listen to that more really helps us uncover these parts of ourselves that need attention that we cognitively don't necessarily understand."
"I was chased down and held down and and I really had to wrestle with the fact that as a bipolar parent, he was the best parent in the world when he was up. And he was violent and abusive when he was down. And so I loved him deeply, and sought his excitement and his attention. And then he would turn into a monster. "
" I ask myself if I am slipping into the delicious desire of having somebody else take care of all of my problems. Because it's so enticing to have somebody else just to dump everything on. Which is not to say that you can't rely on other people— sure, from a perspective of secure attachment. You rely on them from a healthy space, knowing that you've got yourself and they can lend a hand. Not that it's their job to take care of you."
Don't Miss a Beat.
Follow my Instagram for news from me, Tara Beckett:
https://www.instagram.com/letperfectburn/
Alyssa Keegan's Work:
https://universalethicallove.com/
Alyssa's Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/therealalyssakeegan/
Original Music for Let Perfect Burn by Eleri Ward
https://www.instagram.com/eleriward/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tara Beckett (00:22):
Hi, I'm Tara Beckett, and I'm honored that
you're back. You're listening tolet perfect burn. My guest today
is Alisa Keegan, who grew up inrural Michigan. Identifying at
that time is monogamous,straight and sis. About six
years ago, Alyssa began theirpoly journey, and they came to
(00:45):
know their true self,polyamorous, pansexual, queer,
kinky and gender nonconforming.
When the pandemic hit, andAlyssa lost their acting career,
they decided to make a shift anddedicate their life to
supporting others who foundthemselves questioning their
identity and relationships laterin life. Hello, everyone,
(01:05):
welcome back to let perfectburn. Today. I am so pumped to
have in studio Alyssa Keegan.
They are a professional actor.
They are a whole person coach.
They work for fresh path, NewYork, and they have their own
website universal, ethicallove.com. And they work as a
(01:29):
life and relationship coach.
Welcome, Alisa. I'm so glad tohave you. Tara, we worked so
hard on Melissa's introduction,because they do so many cool
things. So I think we got it wecan move on. Right? Yes, we got
totally got it. Awesome. SoAlyssa, you know, in what you
wrote to me in preparation forthis interview, you said that
(01:53):
you had a midlife crisis with atwist? And I'd love to start
there. Great. Jumping right in?
Alyssa Keegan (02:05):
Yeah. Okay. So who I was then? Yeah, so so we
were both in the same theaterprogram together. Although we
didn't cross paths that much. Iwas a musical theater major. And
I always struggled and continueto struggle, honestly, in that
(02:26):
medium, not because I don't loveto sing, and I was even a
competitive dancer for a time.
But the really classic kind ofgender roles that I came up with
in my education. In musicaltheater, I was trained that I
(02:46):
had to look a certain way I hadto sound a certain way. I had to
have the cocktail dresses, andand I grew up in really the
backwoods of Michigan, and I'm aself proclaimed dirty country
kid. And, and I always knew thatthere was something more to me
(03:09):
that wasn't just girly cocktaildress, person Ness. And I think
that that really translated intomy education. And so I kind of
stepped away from musicaltheater, and delve more into
straight theater and plays andbuilt my career on that. Mostly,
(03:33):
I spent about 10 years in the DCmarket working primarily in
theater. And then I justrecently right before the
pandemic, had moved to New York,and had gotten an agent there
and had books and TV work. Andthen the pandemic happened, and
anybody who's in the serviceindustry or in the arts,
(03:58):
particularly theater knows thatwe completely lost our
livelihood. And at that point inmy life, I had already started
to explore and transition awayfrom my really conservative
Michigan roots of monogamy, sis,heterosexual all of that stuff I
(04:28):
kind of started to explore whenI began a polyamorous
relationship with my with mythen husband, who I'm still
legally married to but we nowconsider each other partners not
not like husband and wifebecause also the the gendering
of those titles is somethingthat doesn't really jive with us
(04:50):
anymore or me anymore. So whenthe pandemic hit, I was really
trying to figure out How Iwanted to use this time, you
know, we all had our likepandemic, project or a lot of us
do. And so I decided to delveinto something that I've been
really curious about and hadstarted kind of working my way
(05:11):
into before the pandemic, whichwas being a resource. And I
thought coaching was what Ireally wanted to do, but a
resource for the community thatI was now a part of, which was
the ethical non monogamous,polyamorous community, the queer
community LGBTQIA plus, and, andduring the pandemic really
(05:37):
started to also come to termswith my gender nonconformity, my
partner's were aware of it andthe way that I spoke about it
was like, I'm a girl and a boy.
But then I really was able toduring that time, through the
process of becoming aprofessional coach, getting
(06:01):
certifications, getting moreeducation, in neurobiology, the
nervous system, relationshipstructure, the attachment
theory, just really came tounderstand myself a lot more,
and realize that it was safe forme to let go of the label of she
(06:22):
her hers, and really justembrace. They, they then choose
not to define. And that justfeels so much more in alignment
with who I have always been.
So so that's what I did, youknow, I went and got all of
(06:43):
these certifications because Iwanted to do it right. And I
really care about people insupporting this community
because when I came out asbisexual, and polyamorous, I
didn't have a lot of resources,there weren't there was a couple
of books like I immediatelypicked up ethical slut, which a
(07:06):
lot of people are familiar with.
But I did there weren't a lot ofresources. And in the six years
that I've been identifyingopenly as poly it's it's become
way more widespread. And there'sa lot more information there's a
lot more people who are choosingthat lifestyle or identity
choosing to acknowledge thatthat's their identity. And I
just wanted to be a supportsystem for that. So so now I'm
(07:26):
the Acting career is slowlyreemerging. And now I've got
both of these full time now fulltime kind of freelance jobs. So
I'm very busy as it turns out
Tara Beckett (07:59):
I'm just wondering if you could speak a little bit
about where their breakingpoints along the way?
Alyssa Keegan (08:05):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, I think that the onethat I kind of explored prior to
our conversation was reallyaccepting the fact that although
I was really really good atfunctioning as a successful
confident person, I'm I am ahuge part of me I am insecure,
(08:32):
and self loathing and wildlyanxious and codependent and the
part of me that wanted to not bethat really ran from that for a
long time. And it was a seriesof circumstances an affair that
(08:56):
happened in my marriage becomingpoly and having to really face
my own codependent system andinsecurities and possessiveness
and all of that is like work youhave to do on your own. And it
(09:19):
took a really really long timefor me to be okay with saying
I'm actually pretty messed upand and really don't like
myself. And I'm really good athiding that or maybe not. I also
love myself. Yeah. One partloves myself one part believes
(09:47):
in myself, and is alwaysoperated with an understanding
that if I tried to get somethingI wanted to get I could do it
and another there a part of methat never believes in myself
thinks that I am unworthy ofevery thing I do get. And I
think I had to make friends withthat part of myself. That was my
(10:12):
breaking point was was reallyhitting the bottom of myself and
realizing that I was okay.
Actually at the bottom.
Tara Beckett (10:31):
Yeah, I just I got the image of something being
unearthed,
Alyssa Keegan (10:35):
for sure.
Tara Beckett (10:38):
Yeah, and so, in going into this profession of
this whole person coaching, andin some ways, being able to be a
mirror for these people, you'vebeen there, right? What does it
look like to be a client ofyours?
Alyssa Keegan (11:02):
What does it look like to be a client
not sure how to how to expressthis. But I would say that my
clients often think they'recoming to me for one thing, and
then realize that there's,there's something else entirely
(11:24):
that we have to like focus onfirst. But I do feel like I
create space for that process.
So you know, really, the reasonwhy I decided to get certified
as a whole person coach is thatalso as a practicing Buddhist
(11:46):
for over a decade, I reallybelieve in how we manipulate our
life, our environment, ourreality, and everyone's reality
is different from everyoneelse's. And every emotion
thought environment, socialconnection, relationship family
dynamic that we have, is part ofwhat creates our reality. And
(12:09):
the whole person methodology,more or less is not simply goal
setting and kind of, you know,just thinking stuff through
cognitively it really is aboutembodying somatic experience
understanding more specifically,when we tap into different parts
(12:32):
of ourselves different you know,I call it the web of life. So if
we're working on your career,and you're like, well I've got a
goal in my career, the blockmight be somewhere in your
family or somewhere inrelationship structure. And
until we start to reallyidentify who the client is
(12:52):
authentically in the same waythat I had to kind of come to
terms with the real me the allof me the good parts the bad
parts the perfectionist parts wecan't untangle the rest of our
(13:15):
life until we do that work andand so really my coaching comes
down to helping peopleunderstand what secure
attachment with themself is butself love we would say that kind
of like this new age Westernlike you know self love but
(13:37):
really it's secure attachment toyourself first and really coming
to terms with the relationshipor the lack thereof that you
have with yourselfso as a poly person, I have
(14:00):
multiple relationships and oneof my relationships was really
going south and part of that wasbecause I am like an anxious and
avoidant person and they calledit a disorganized attachment
(14:23):
style where basically i i wantlove I seek connection but the
second that I think I'm actuallynot going to get it I built and
I was in this relationship andwas really being activated from
my anxious space and my partneris you know, more of an avoidant
(14:44):
person. So the closer I got, themore I tried to fix the
relationship. The further awayhe ran. And and I started how
having panic attacks literallybecause I didn't know how to be
alone. I didn't know how to bewithout that long term
(15:08):
relationship. And, and so I haddone a lot of work. And I was I
was, you know, in the process ofgetting this somatic attachment
therapy certification, which Ijust finished. And in January,
when I was in this course, andlearning all about this and more
about attachment theory and myown nervous system, I decided
(15:31):
that I needed to kind of take astep back from all of my
relationships, and just figureout if I even liked being with
me, if I could handle being withme. And the truth is, it was
really terrifying. For a coupleof weeks, I cried constantly. I
(15:58):
hugged myself, I rocked myself,I tapped on my solar plexus, I
did all of these things to allowthe pain of sitting with myself,
and no one else to emerge. Andthen let it pass and realize
(16:20):
that I was okay. And I would dothat again. And again and again.
Until at some point, it juststarted getting a little bit
easier. And then as it goteasier, my nervous system would
relax more and more often. Andthen I started to really enjoy
(16:45):
turning to myself. Because whatI had practiced doing was
proving to my body that I wasgoing to show up and take care
of it. I was going to sit withthe parts of myself, the little
parts of myself, the defensiveparts of myself and say, you're
all welcome here. You can trustme, I'm not going anywhere. And
(17:10):
I'm not going to try and pawnoff this work on somebody else.
This secure attachment work isonly really, in the last since
(17:33):
January, I think I had startedto my education and attachment
theory and stuff had had mestarting to, like build the idea
of what I needed to do forprobably about a year. But it
wasn't until January that thatthis relationship was falling
apart that you know, thepandemic had just been so much
and I was so overwhelmed with somuch stuff that I just needed to
(17:58):
break down. Yes. And face it. Soyeah, it was it's really kind of
spin in the last, you know, fourmonths.
Tara Beckett (18:05):
And do you see do you see a change in how you
mother with the work you'vedone?
Alyssa Keegan (18:14):
Um, yeah. I mean, although that's that's been a
process that that's beenongoing. But yeah, that's a
really interesting that's areally interesting thing to
think about. Because yes, I haveI you know, really definitely
(18:34):
think about him and look at himand think how much am I messing
you up? Is it just enough tomake you interest like
interesting, you know, butyou're actually going to more or
less be okay. And, and so Ithink that he's so he's our only
(18:57):
son. And I think that when I hadhim I was very fearful about the
world suddenly, and I had neverloved anything so much. And, and
any kind of pain that he wouldgo through or that any child
(19:17):
would go through if I if I hearda child crying or being
dismissed, like in a grocerystore, I would be like, Oh my
god, so terrible. I just was soraw. And I think for a time,
really, in hindsight probablydid a lot of helicoptering it
didn't want to didn't reallyagree with that method, but was
(19:43):
probably doing it subconsciouslya lot. And there is something
very important about me findingreal autonomy and independence
from all of my relationshipsinclude Being child's parent.
And there's been some kind ofgreat developments in my
(20:08):
relationship with him. BecauseI'm still the parent, I'm still
the one that is creatingstructure and safety,
particularly in a non monogamouslifestyle that's really
important that you create afoundation of safety and
(20:28):
communication with your childrenin that space, and how much you
expose them to. That's a primaryconcern, and always will be. But
beyond that, I've really let himdo a lot more of his own
thinking. I've allowed him tomake a lot of his own choices.
(20:53):
And if he makes that choice, andthen as bummed about the
repercussions, we talked aboutthat. But I'm not trying to do
it all for him anymore. Andthat, quite honestly, that is
such a liberating and relaxingsensation to have in my body to
(21:18):
be like, I am not responsiblefor everything I cannot be.
Tara Beckett (21:27):
Yeah, I was gonna say, even when you think you can
be or want to be you stillaren't. So there's almost this
fighting against what's natural.
Alyssa Keegan (21:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Because we want to protect themfrom everything, we want to
create such an incrediblestructure for them, but, but
ultimately, eventually, they'regoing to realize that, that
they're not always going to havethat structure, they're not
always going to have somebodywho's going to show up for them
at some point in theirdevelopment, and they, they have
that what like that, you know,kick them out of the nest thing,
(22:01):
but I'd rather not kick him outof the nest, I'd rather show him
slowly. Passion, kind of abroader spectrum of the world.
So that he's not shocked when heleaves home and realizes that
everybody isn't going to be athis beck and call that doesn't
like the things that he likes,and that's okay. You know, that
everybody's gonna have their ownagenda. They're not thinking
(22:23):
about him. And, you know, he'sonly seven. So, you know, we, we
do that in a seven year oldversion, you know. But yeah, I
think he always likes to run oneway to the car, and he wants me
to run another way. He's like,Mom, you go this way. And I'm
gonna go this way. And I'm like,and I always tell him, I was
(22:45):
like, I'm gonna go the way thatI want to go, you go ahead and
go the way you want to go. Yeah,that's the car.
Tara Beckett (22:55):
Oh, my son is also seven. They could play. They
could go. Alice, I'm wonderingif you would like to speak to
just what it was like for you,as you know, maybe that seven
(23:17):
year old growing up and how thatinfluenced your journey?
Alyssa Keegan (23:22):
Yeah. Yeah, so it took me quite a while probably
to my mid to late 20s. Toactually become aware enough,
(23:42):
having been out of the house,getting away from Michigan,
going to school, workingprofessionally, to realize that
I grew up in an abusivehousehold. My father was
undiagnosed bipolar most of mychildhood. And and so the
(24:09):
erratic and violent nature towhich I grew up where spanking
was the, you know, the form ofpunishment when you when you did
something wrong. I didn'trealize that we weren't being
spanked, we were being beaten.
And that we weren't being hit bya person who was and I
(24:30):
personally don't condonespanking at all. But I know that
that is a thing that is still upfor debate in the wider world.
But I don't think that it isnecessary to lay your hands on a
child and that way. But at thetime, I thought it was just the
(24:51):
way things were. And it wasn'tuntil I got older that I
realized that even people whowere were spanked as kids, their
experience of it was that theirparent was very calm, they got a
whack. They were told why, andthen they went on their way. And
that was not the case with me. Iwas chased down and held down
(25:17):
and and I really had to wrestlewith the fact that, that as a
bipolar parent, he was the bestparent in the world when he was
up. And he was violent andabusive when he was down. And so
(25:41):
I, I loved him deeply, and sawhis excitement and his
attention. And then he wouldturn into a monster. And, and so
my, as I said, previously, mykind of disorganized attachment
is really connected to myfather, my relationship with my
(26:05):
father, specifically, that like,trust in love in somebody who
take care of me. And they would,they would like, if I did
something totally mundane. If mydad thought it was exciting, he
would throw a parade, you know,he would just shout to the
(26:26):
rooftops and still does, howamazing I am, the most
incredible thing he ever did inhis life was had these amazing
kids. And then he would havethis other part of himself,
where he was gone, the personthat I that through the parade
was no longer present. And in myadult life, what I had to kind
(26:49):
of come to terms with was onethat I did, in fact, grow up in
an abusive household. And justbecause we had a roof over our
head and food every night, and Ididn't walk around with broken
bones or bruises, mostly. Wewere still in a really
emotionally and physicallyabusive space. And and that he
(27:10):
couldn't help it. You know, youyou asked in. One of the
questions was, if I could sitdown and have coffee with
somebody Rasma Manickam,Manickam Rasma. Manickam is this
(27:31):
incredible therapist, and hereally works on
intergenerationalintergenerational trauma and how
it is held in the body. And Ireally feel like my father's
experience with an alcoholicfather and a mother who passed
(27:51):
away when he was 15, frombasically meant, like medical
malpractice. He had all of histrauma, and then just
generations and generations oftrauma in his body that he had
never had resolved. And so heblew all of that trauma into
myself and my siblings. And hecouldn't really help it because
(28:13):
he didn't know. Right. Andhe has done a great deal of
work. I'm very happy to say thatthe father, who through the
parades for me is primarily thegrandfather, that that he is to
(28:35):
my son, and to my nieces andnephew. He's wonderful. He's
showing up in his present and ishealthy in a way that he wasn't
for us. Right. And he recognizesthat and we've had we've had to
have conversations, real, realserious conversations about that
trauma in order to feel safeenough to have these deeper
(28:59):
connections with grandkids andwith us again.
Tara Beckett (29:17):
think we've touched a little bit on it, but
I'd like to just go into it alittle bit more, which is, you
know, your work as a wholeperson coach. How would you sum
it up that how are you makingthose people's lives better?
Alyssa Keegan (29:40):
I think the more I work, and the more I refine
and the more I draw certaintypes of clients to myself.
Really what continues to come upmore and more is how little
people are connected to theirbody, how little they actually
(30:05):
know about their body and whatit's telling them. And getting
quiet. And listening from a bodyperspective. And letting the
mind relax for a time is soinformative, particularly when
(30:32):
it comes to issues ofinsecurity, jealousy,
possessiveness, because whetheryou're a client who is coming to
me, because you're in amonogamous structure, or a
consensually non monogamousstructure, the foundation of
(30:53):
every healthy relationship comesback to that relationship with
yourself. And the world is anoisy place. And we operate so
consistently from a cerebralspace. That it's often hard for
(31:15):
people to even know that thereis sensation happening in the
body. But the truth is that thenervous system, the autonomic
nervous system is always takingin information is always
assessing Is this safe is thisdangerous? The environment, the
person next to you any anythingthat's happening where your
(31:36):
heart goes up, or you feel likea fluttery in your stomach, all
of that is your body, that's notyour cognitive brain, and
helping teach my clients evenfrom a scientific perspective,
that the oldest part of ourbrain is like rooted in that
(31:57):
nervous system. Andunderstanding that and being
able to listen to that morereally helps us uncover these
parts of ourselves that needattention, that we cognitively
don't necessarily understand whyam I getting so upset by this?
And if you can sit with that,and realize that that's just a
(32:20):
part of you that is worried foryou, and is trying to protect
you? And where do you feel thatin your body, you can start to
assess and sense a whole newlanguage that is available to
you in your daily life that youcan tap into for wisdom and
(32:43):
understanding about a momentthat you cognitively may not be
able to figure out?
Tara Beckett (32:50):
Yeah, and I'm just trying to sort of get a really
clear picture. But do you findthat all parties come to you as
a client? Or is it one part ofeither monogamous or non
monogamous relationship thatsaying, I'm struggling? Let me
see what truth I can find? Or doyou have both? I do work
Alyssa Keegan (33:12):
with couples, though, it usually is a one on
one experience, even if I'mworking with two people that
eventually will come together.
The journey, and my coachingmethodology is so specific to
the individual, that a lot oftimes you can't do the work in
(33:34):
tandem with your partner rightaway. And, and, you know, if
your partner is unwilling, ifone partner is unwilling, or is
just not interested and doesn'tthink that they need it, and the
other person is doing this work,it will begin to become
imbalanced. And part of what myclient will see in that space,
(33:55):
is the struggle with realizingthat this relationship is not
supportive. And that there hasto be some kind of choice on the
client's part because theycannot make their partner do
anything they don't want to do.
And I'm a real advocate forthat.
Unknown (34:17):
Absolutely. You can only do
Alyssa Keegan (34:19):
what you can do.
So what do you need? What areyour boundaries? What are the
ways in which you feel like youare not having your needs met?
And how can you actively changemake that happen for yourself?
Find ways through that withoutmaking it your partner's
responsibility. And sometimesthe realization is that
(34:42):
partnership actually has run itscourse. And those people need to
separate or there is arealization on the partner
that's not engaged. Thatactually something really
important is happening for theirpartner, and they see it at a
distance and realize, maybethere's something to that. And
then they come closer, becausethe more their other partner is
(35:05):
focusing on themselves and nottrying to get something from the
other person necessarily atfirst, they kind of the pressure
comes off of that other person alittle bit and they go, Wait a
minute, maybe I can lean in alittle bit. So I do find that my
clients tend to do an individualtrack
Tara Beckett (35:37):
into to wrap up for today, what is let perfect
burn for you.
Alyssa Keegan (35:50):
I wrote this really beautiful answer to that
question. And I was thinkingabout that. While I was
preparing for today, and itoccurred to me that like, that
was true the day that I wroteit. True, and today is a
different day. Yes. And thetruth is that perfect is a part
(36:17):
of me. Perfect is a helpful partof me. But it is not the part
that should always be leading.
And so letting perfect burn,rather than it being something
to get rid of to disintegrate.
(36:48):
I wonder if it's something likea tool. Use when necessary, with
consciousness and deliberateagency. And I think that the
(37:14):
idea of being a perfectionistcan be so profound that there is
this element of needing to burnthat identity, that wholeness
that you are just this thing.
And if you are not this perfectthing, then you are a failure
that we can burn. Yes. But thepart the part that that
(37:37):
operates, that perfectionist inme is really just a part that's
worried for me that wants to behelpful, wants me to succeed is
worried that I will fail. And issaying to me these things,
(37:57):
sometimes helpful sometimes not.
Because it's just worried andwants to help and is trying to
get me to do something. So if Iknow that and can hear it and
go, You know what, perfection.
You're right on the money. We'regoing to do that thing. That's a
great idea. Then I'm gonnalisten. But if perfection is
(38:21):
like you didn't get that thingdone, you didn't hit that mark
there, you didn't get theagenda, blah, blah, blah, Don,
you must be a terrible person.
And be like, You know what, Iactually think I'm gonna like,
Thank you for your opinions. Iappreciate your perspective. I'm
(38:41):
gonna let that be there. And I'mgonna go over here.
Tara Beckett (38:45):
Yes, yes. I love that. Like it can be a little
piece and we can have compassionfor all the little pieces. But
kind of letting it runroughshod. No, thanks.
Alyssa Keegan (38:57):
No, thank you.
Not anymore.
Tara Beckett (38:59):
No way. Well, Alyssa, thank you so much for
being on. And you know, everyonecan in the show notes. Find out
where to find Alyssa. And thankyou so much.
Alyssa Keegan (39:12):
Thank you. Bye
Hi, I'm Tara Beckett, and I'm honored that
you're back. You're listening tolet perfect burn. My guest today
is Alisa Keegan, who grew up inrural Michigan. Identifying at
that time is monogamous,straight and sis. About six
years ago, Alyssa began theirpoly journey, and they came to
(00:45):
know their true self,polyamorous, pansexual, queer,
kinky and gender nonconforming.
When the pandemic hit, andAlyssa lost their acting career,
they decided to make a shift anddedicate their life to
supporting others who foundthemselves questioning their
identity and relationships laterin life. Hello, everyone,
(01:05):
welcome back to let perfectburn. Today. I am so pumped to
have in studio Alyssa Keegan.
They are a professional actor.
They are a whole person coach.
They work for fresh path, NewYork, and they have their own
website universal, ethicallove.com. And they work as a
(01:29):
life and relationship coach.
Welcome, Alisa. I'm so glad tohave you. Tara, we worked so
hard on Melissa's introduction,because they do so many cool
things. So I think we got it wecan move on. Right? Yes, we got
totally got it. Awesome. SoAlyssa, you know, in what you
wrote to me in preparation forthis interview, you said that
(01:53):
you had a midlife crisis with atwist? And I'd love to start
there. Great. Jumping right in?
Alyssa Keegan (02:05):
Yeah. Okay. So who I was then? Yeah, so so we
were both in the same theaterprogram together. Although we
didn't cross paths that much. Iwas a musical theater major. And
I always struggled and continueto struggle, honestly, in that
(02:26):
medium, not because I don't loveto sing, and I was even a
competitive dancer for a time.
But the really classic kind ofgender roles that I came up with
in my education. In musicaltheater, I was trained that I
(02:46):
had to look a certain way I hadto sound a certain way. I had to
have the cocktail dresses, andand I grew up in really the
backwoods of Michigan, and I'm aself proclaimed dirty country
kid. And, and I always knew thatthere was something more to me
(03:09):
that wasn't just girly cocktaildress, person Ness. And I think
that that really translated intomy education. And so I kind of
stepped away from musicaltheater, and delve more into
straight theater and plays andbuilt my career on that. Mostly,
(03:33):
I spent about 10 years in the DCmarket working primarily in
theater. And then I justrecently right before the
pandemic, had moved to New York,and had gotten an agent there
and had books and TV work. Andthen the pandemic happened, and
anybody who's in the serviceindustry or in the arts,
(03:58):
particularly theater knows thatwe completely lost our
livelihood. And at that point inmy life, I had already started
to explore and transition awayfrom my really conservative
Michigan roots of monogamy, sis,heterosexual all of that stuff I
(04:28):
kind of started to explore whenI began a polyamorous
relationship with my with mythen husband, who I'm still
legally married to but we nowconsider each other partners not
not like husband and wifebecause also the the gendering
of those titles is somethingthat doesn't really jive with us
(04:50):
anymore or me anymore. So whenthe pandemic hit, I was really
trying to figure out How Iwanted to use this time, you
know, we all had our likepandemic, project or a lot of us
do. And so I decided to delveinto something that I've been
really curious about and hadstarted kind of working my way
(05:11):
into before the pandemic, whichwas being a resource. And I
thought coaching was what Ireally wanted to do, but a
resource for the community thatI was now a part of, which was
the ethical non monogamous,polyamorous community, the queer
community LGBTQIA plus, and, andduring the pandemic really
(05:37):
started to also come to termswith my gender nonconformity, my
partner's were aware of it andthe way that I spoke about it
was like, I'm a girl and a boy.
But then I really was able toduring that time, through the
process of becoming aprofessional coach, getting
(06:01):
certifications, getting moreeducation, in neurobiology, the
nervous system, relationshipstructure, the attachment
theory, just really came tounderstand myself a lot more,
and realize that it was safe forme to let go of the label of she
(06:22):
her hers, and really justembrace. They, they then choose
not to define. And that justfeels so much more in alignment
with who I have always been.
So so that's what I did, youknow, I went and got all of
(06:43):
these certifications because Iwanted to do it right. And I
really care about people insupporting this community
because when I came out asbisexual, and polyamorous, I
didn't have a lot of resources,there weren't there was a couple
of books like I immediatelypicked up ethical slut, which a
(07:06):
lot of people are familiar with.
But I did there weren't a lot ofresources. And in the six years
that I've been identifyingopenly as poly it's it's become
way more widespread. And there'sa lot more information there's a
lot more people who are choosingthat lifestyle or identity
choosing to acknowledge thatthat's their identity. And I
just wanted to be a supportsystem for that. So so now I'm
(07:26):
the Acting career is slowlyreemerging. And now I've got
both of these full time now fulltime kind of freelance jobs. So
I'm very busy as it turns out
Tara Beckett (07:59):
I'm just wondering if you could speak a little bit
about where their breakingpoints along the way?
Alyssa Keegan (08:05):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, I think that the onethat I kind of explored prior to
our conversation was reallyaccepting the fact that although
I was really really good atfunctioning as a successful
confident person, I'm I am ahuge part of me I am insecure,
(08:32):
and self loathing and wildlyanxious and codependent and the
part of me that wanted to not bethat really ran from that for a
long time. And it was a seriesof circumstances an affair that
(08:56):
happened in my marriage becomingpoly and having to really face
my own codependent system andinsecurities and possessiveness
and all of that is like work youhave to do on your own. And it
(09:19):
took a really really long timefor me to be okay with saying
I'm actually pretty messed upand and really don't like
myself. And I'm really good athiding that or maybe not. I also
love myself. Yeah. One partloves myself one part believes
(09:47):
in myself, and is alwaysoperated with an understanding
that if I tried to get somethingI wanted to get I could do it
and another there a part of methat never believes in myself
thinks that I am unworthy ofevery thing I do get. And I
think I had to make friends withthat part of myself. That was my
(10:12):
breaking point was was reallyhitting the bottom of myself and
realizing that I was okay.
Actually at the bottom.
Tara Beckett (10:31):
Yeah, I just I got the image of something being
unearthed,
Alyssa Keegan (10:35):
for sure.
Tara Beckett (10:38):
Yeah, and so, in going into this profession of
this whole person coaching, andin some ways, being able to be a
mirror for these people, you'vebeen there, right? What does it
look like to be a client ofyours?
Alyssa Keegan (11:02):
What does it look like to be a client
not sure how to how to expressthis. But I would say that my
clients often think they'recoming to me for one thing, and
then realize that there's,there's something else entirely
(11:24):
that we have to like focus onfirst. But I do feel like I
create space for that process.
So you know, really, the reasonwhy I decided to get certified
as a whole person coach is thatalso as a practicing Buddhist
(11:46):
for over a decade, I reallybelieve in how we manipulate our
life, our environment, ourreality, and everyone's reality
is different from everyoneelse's. And every emotion
thought environment, socialconnection, relationship family
dynamic that we have, is part ofwhat creates our reality. And
(12:09):
the whole person methodology,more or less is not simply goal
setting and kind of, you know,just thinking stuff through
cognitively it really is aboutembodying somatic experience
understanding more specifically,when we tap into different parts
(12:32):
of ourselves different you know,I call it the web of life. So if
we're working on your career,and you're like, well I've got a
goal in my career, the blockmight be somewhere in your
family or somewhere inrelationship structure. And
until we start to reallyidentify who the client is
(12:52):
authentically in the same waythat I had to kind of come to
terms with the real me the allof me the good parts the bad
parts the perfectionist parts wecan't untangle the rest of our
(13:15):
life until we do that work andand so really my coaching comes
down to helping peopleunderstand what secure
attachment with themself is butself love we would say that kind
of like this new age Westernlike you know self love but
(13:37):
really it's secure attachment toyourself first and really coming
to terms with the relationshipor the lack thereof that you
have with yourselfso as a poly person, I have
(14:00):
multiple relationships and oneof my relationships was really
going south and part of that wasbecause I am like an anxious and
avoidant person and they calledit a disorganized attachment
(14:23):
style where basically i i wantlove I seek connection but the
second that I think I'm actuallynot going to get it I built and
I was in this relationship andwas really being activated from
my anxious space and my partneris you know, more of an avoidant
(14:44):
person. So the closer I got, themore I tried to fix the
relationship. The further awayhe ran. And and I started how
having panic attacks literallybecause I didn't know how to be
alone. I didn't know how to bewithout that long term
(15:08):
relationship. And, and so I haddone a lot of work. And I was I
was, you know, in the process ofgetting this somatic attachment
therapy certification, which Ijust finished. And in January,
when I was in this course, andlearning all about this and more
about attachment theory and myown nervous system, I decided
(15:31):
that I needed to kind of take astep back from all of my
relationships, and just figureout if I even liked being with
me, if I could handle being withme. And the truth is, it was
really terrifying. For a coupleof weeks, I cried constantly. I
(15:58):
hugged myself, I rocked myself,I tapped on my solar plexus, I
did all of these things to allowthe pain of sitting with myself,
and no one else to emerge. Andthen let it pass and realize
(16:20):
that I was okay. And I would dothat again. And again and again.
Until at some point, it juststarted getting a little bit
easier. And then as it goteasier, my nervous system would
relax more and more often. Andthen I started to really enjoy
(16:45):
turning to myself. Because whatI had practiced doing was
proving to my body that I wasgoing to show up and take care
of it. I was going to sit withthe parts of myself, the little
parts of myself, the defensiveparts of myself and say, you're
all welcome here. You can trustme, I'm not going anywhere. And
(17:10):
I'm not going to try and pawnoff this work on somebody else.
This secure attachment work isonly really, in the last since
(17:33):
January, I think I had startedto my education and attachment
theory and stuff had had mestarting to, like build the idea
of what I needed to do forprobably about a year. But it
wasn't until January that thatthis relationship was falling
apart that you know, thepandemic had just been so much
and I was so overwhelmed with somuch stuff that I just needed to
(17:58):
break down. Yes. And face it. Soyeah, it was it's really kind of
spin in the last, you know, fourmonths.
Tara Beckett (18:05):
And do you see do you see a change in how you
mother with the work you'vedone?
Alyssa Keegan (18:14):
Um, yeah. I mean, although that's that's been a
process that that's beenongoing. But yeah, that's a
really interesting that's areally interesting thing to
think about. Because yes, I haveI you know, really definitely
(18:34):
think about him and look at himand think how much am I messing
you up? Is it just enough tomake you interest like
interesting, you know, butyou're actually going to more or
less be okay. And, and so Ithink that he's so he's our only
(18:57):
son. And I think that when I hadhim I was very fearful about the
world suddenly, and I had neverloved anything so much. And, and
any kind of pain that he wouldgo through or that any child
(19:17):
would go through if I if I hearda child crying or being
dismissed, like in a grocerystore, I would be like, Oh my
god, so terrible. I just was soraw. And I think for a time,
really, in hindsight probablydid a lot of helicoptering it
didn't want to didn't reallyagree with that method, but was
(19:43):
probably doing it subconsciouslya lot. And there is something
very important about me findingreal autonomy and independence
from all of my relationshipsinclude Being child's parent.
And there's been some kind ofgreat developments in my
(20:08):
relationship with him. BecauseI'm still the parent, I'm still
the one that is creatingstructure and safety,
particularly in a non monogamouslifestyle that's really
important that you create afoundation of safety and
(20:28):
communication with your childrenin that space, and how much you
expose them to. That's a primaryconcern, and always will be. But
beyond that, I've really let himdo a lot more of his own
thinking. I've allowed him tomake a lot of his own choices.
(20:53):
And if he makes that choice, andthen as bummed about the
repercussions, we talked aboutthat. But I'm not trying to do
it all for him anymore. Andthat, quite honestly, that is
such a liberating and relaxingsensation to have in my body to
(21:18):
be like, I am not responsiblefor everything I cannot be.
Tara Beckett (21:27):
Yeah, I was gonna say, even when you think you can
be or want to be you stillaren't. So there's almost this
fighting against what's natural.
Alyssa Keegan (21:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Because we want to protect themfrom everything, we want to
create such an incrediblestructure for them, but, but
ultimately, eventually, they'regoing to realize that, that
they're not always going to havethat structure, they're not
always going to have somebodywho's going to show up for them
at some point in theirdevelopment, and they, they have
that what like that, you know,kick them out of the nest thing,
(22:01):
but I'd rather not kick him outof the nest, I'd rather show him
slowly. Passion, kind of abroader spectrum of the world.
So that he's not shocked when heleaves home and realizes that
everybody isn't going to be athis beck and call that doesn't
like the things that he likes,and that's okay. You know, that
everybody's gonna have their ownagenda. They're not thinking
(22:23):
about him. And, you know, he'sonly seven. So, you know, we, we
do that in a seven year oldversion, you know. But yeah, I
think he always likes to run oneway to the car, and he wants me
to run another way. He's like,Mom, you go this way. And I'm
gonna go this way. And I'm like,and I always tell him, I was
(22:45):
like, I'm gonna go the way thatI want to go, you go ahead and
go the way you want to go. Yeah,that's the car.
Tara Beckett (22:55):
Oh, my son is also seven. They could play. They
could go. Alice, I'm wonderingif you would like to speak to
just what it was like for you,as you know, maybe that seven
(23:17):
year old growing up and how thatinfluenced your journey?
Alyssa Keegan (23:22):
Yeah. Yeah, so it took me quite a while probably
to my mid to late 20s. Toactually become aware enough,
(23:42):
having been out of the house,getting away from Michigan,
going to school, workingprofessionally, to realize that
I grew up in an abusivehousehold. My father was
undiagnosed bipolar most of mychildhood. And and so the
(24:09):
erratic and violent nature towhich I grew up where spanking
was the, you know, the form ofpunishment when you when you did
something wrong. I didn'trealize that we weren't being
spanked, we were being beaten.
And that we weren't being hit bya person who was and I
(24:30):
personally don't condonespanking at all. But I know that
that is a thing that is still upfor debate in the wider world.
But I don't think that it isnecessary to lay your hands on a
child and that way. But at thetime, I thought it was just the
(24:51):
way things were. And it wasn'tuntil I got older that I
realized that even people whowere were spanked as kids, their
experience of it was that theirparent was very calm, they got a
whack. They were told why, andthen they went on their way. And
that was not the case with me. Iwas chased down and held down
(25:17):
and and I really had to wrestlewith the fact that, that as a
bipolar parent, he was the bestparent in the world when he was
up. And he was violent andabusive when he was down. And so
(25:41):
I, I loved him deeply, and sawhis excitement and his
attention. And then he wouldturn into a monster. And, and so
my, as I said, previously, mykind of disorganized attachment
is really connected to myfather, my relationship with my
(26:05):
father, specifically, that like,trust in love in somebody who
take care of me. And they would,they would like, if I did
something totally mundane. If mydad thought it was exciting, he
would throw a parade, you know,he would just shout to the
(26:26):
rooftops and still does, howamazing I am, the most
incredible thing he ever did inhis life was had these amazing
kids. And then he would havethis other part of himself,
where he was gone, the personthat I that through the parade
was no longer present. And in myadult life, what I had to kind
(26:49):
of come to terms with was onethat I did, in fact, grow up in
an abusive household. And justbecause we had a roof over our
head and food every night, and Ididn't walk around with broken
bones or bruises, mostly. Wewere still in a really
emotionally and physicallyabusive space. And and that he
(27:10):
couldn't help it. You know, youyou asked in. One of the
questions was, if I could sitdown and have coffee with
somebody Rasma Manickam,Manickam Rasma. Manickam is this
(27:31):
incredible therapist, and hereally works on
intergenerationalintergenerational trauma and how
it is held in the body. And Ireally feel like my father's
experience with an alcoholicfather and a mother who passed
(27:51):
away when he was 15, frombasically meant, like medical
malpractice. He had all of histrauma, and then just
generations and generations oftrauma in his body that he had
never had resolved. And so heblew all of that trauma into
myself and my siblings. And hecouldn't really help it because
(28:13):
he didn't know. Right. Andhe has done a great deal of
work. I'm very happy to say thatthe father, who through the
parades for me is primarily thegrandfather, that that he is to
(28:35):
my son, and to my nieces andnephew. He's wonderful. He's
showing up in his present and ishealthy in a way that he wasn't
for us. Right. And he recognizesthat and we've had we've had to
have conversations, real, realserious conversations about that
trauma in order to feel safeenough to have these deeper
(28:59):
connections with grandkids andwith us again.
Tara Beckett (29:17):
think we've touched a little bit on it, but
I'd like to just go into it alittle bit more, which is, you
know, your work as a wholeperson coach. How would you sum
it up that how are you makingthose people's lives better?
Alyssa Keegan (29:40):
I think the more I work, and the more I refine
and the more I draw certaintypes of clients to myself.
Really what continues to come upmore and more is how little
people are connected to theirbody, how little they actually
(30:05):
know about their body and whatit's telling them. And getting
quiet. And listening from a bodyperspective. And letting the
mind relax for a time is soinformative, particularly when
(30:32):
it comes to issues ofinsecurity, jealousy,
possessiveness, because whetheryou're a client who is coming to
me, because you're in amonogamous structure, or a
consensually non monogamousstructure, the foundation of
(30:53):
every healthy relationship comesback to that relationship with
yourself. And the world is anoisy place. And we operate so
consistently from a cerebralspace. That it's often hard for
(31:15):
people to even know that thereis sensation happening in the
body. But the truth is that thenervous system, the autonomic
nervous system is always takingin information is always
assessing Is this safe is thisdangerous? The environment, the
person next to you any anythingthat's happening where your
(31:36):
heart goes up, or you feel likea fluttery in your stomach, all
of that is your body, that's notyour cognitive brain, and
helping teach my clients evenfrom a scientific perspective,
that the oldest part of ourbrain is like rooted in that
(31:57):
nervous system. Andunderstanding that and being
able to listen to that morereally helps us uncover these
parts of ourselves that needattention, that we cognitively
don't necessarily understand whyam I getting so upset by this?
And if you can sit with that,and realize that that's just a
(32:20):
part of you that is worried foryou, and is trying to protect
you? And where do you feel thatin your body, you can start to
assess and sense a whole newlanguage that is available to
you in your daily life that youcan tap into for wisdom and
(32:43):
understanding about a momentthat you cognitively may not be
able to figure out?
Tara Beckett (32:50):
Yeah, and I'm just trying to sort of get a really
clear picture. But do you findthat all parties come to you as
a client? Or is it one part ofeither monogamous or non
monogamous relationship thatsaying, I'm struggling? Let me
see what truth I can find? Or doyou have both? I do work
Alyssa Keegan (33:12):
with couples, though, it usually is a one on
one experience, even if I'mworking with two people that
eventually will come together.
The journey, and my coachingmethodology is so specific to
the individual, that a lot oftimes you can't do the work in
(33:34):
tandem with your partner rightaway. And, and, you know, if
your partner is unwilling, ifone partner is unwilling, or is
just not interested and doesn'tthink that they need it, and the
other person is doing this work,it will begin to become
imbalanced. And part of what myclient will see in that space,
(33:55):
is the struggle with realizingthat this relationship is not
supportive. And that there hasto be some kind of choice on the
client's part because theycannot make their partner do
anything they don't want to do.
And I'm a real advocate forthat.
Unknown (34:17):
Absolutely. You can only do
Alyssa Keegan (34:19):
what you can do.
So what do you need? What areyour boundaries? What are the
ways in which you feel like youare not having your needs met?
And how can you actively changemake that happen for yourself?
Find ways through that withoutmaking it your partner's
responsibility. And sometimesthe realization is that
(34:42):
partnership actually has run itscourse. And those people need to
separate or there is arealization on the partner
that's not engaged. Thatactually something really
important is happening for theirpartner, and they see it at a
distance and realize, maybethere's something to that. And
then they come closer, becausethe more their other partner is
(35:05):
focusing on themselves and nottrying to get something from the
other person necessarily atfirst, they kind of the pressure
comes off of that other person alittle bit and they go, Wait a
minute, maybe I can lean in alittle bit. So I do find that my
clients tend to do an individualtrack
Tara Beckett (35:37):
into to wrap up for today, what is let perfect
burn for you.
Alyssa Keegan (35:50):
I wrote this really beautiful answer to that
question. And I was thinkingabout that. While I was
preparing for today, and itoccurred to me that like, that
was true the day that I wroteit. True, and today is a
different day. Yes. And thetruth is that perfect is a part
(36:17):
of me. Perfect is a helpful partof me. But it is not the part
that should always be leading.
And so letting perfect burn,rather than it being something
to get rid of to disintegrate.
(36:48):
I wonder if it's something likea tool. Use when necessary, with
consciousness and deliberateagency. And I think that the
(37:14):
idea of being a perfectionistcan be so profound that there is
this element of needing to burnthat identity, that wholeness
that you are just this thing.
And if you are not this perfectthing, then you are a failure
that we can burn. Yes. But thepart the part that that
(37:37):
operates, that perfectionist inme is really just a part that's
worried for me that wants to behelpful, wants me to succeed is
worried that I will fail. And issaying to me these things,
(37:57):
sometimes helpful sometimes not.
Because it's just worried andwants to help and is trying to
get me to do something. So if Iknow that and can hear it and
go, You know what, perfection.
You're right on the money. We'regoing to do that thing. That's a
great idea. Then I'm gonnalisten. But if perfection is
(38:21):
like you didn't get that thingdone, you didn't hit that mark
there, you didn't get theagenda, blah, blah, blah, Don,
you must be a terrible person.
And be like, You know what, Iactually think I'm gonna like,
Thank you for your opinions. Iappreciate your perspective. I'm
(38:41):
gonna let that be there. And I'mgonna go over here.
Tara Beckett (38:45):
Yes, yes. I love that. Like it can be a little
piece and we can have compassionfor all the little pieces. But
kind of letting it runroughshod. No, thanks.
Alyssa Keegan (38:57):
No, thank you.
Not anymore.
Tara Beckett (38:59):
No way. Well, Alyssa, thank you so much for
being on. And you know, everyonecan in the show notes. Find out
where to find Alyssa. And thankyou so much.
Alyssa Keegan (39:12):
Thank you. Bye
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