April 12, 2022 • 40 mins
In this week's episode, I sit down with Kate Eckstein, of Kate Eckstein Design. Kate left the corporate world to realize her dream of owning her own interior design business. When she began her company, she had become the mother of two small children, she was married and believed herself to be living a fully authentic life. Yet when Kate discovered that the woman she was presenting to the world was not her true self, she also had to acknowledge she was not her true self in her marriage. Kate talks about the shedding that happens in divorce and the pain of what is lost, even if authenticity is found.
Like me, Kate is the mother of a neurodivergent child. We talk about our perfectionistic personalities and how they bleed into motherhood. We talk about how we find ourselves “chasing our child’s brain” because our sons' needs are so great, and we think that there is always more we could be doing to help these little humans feel successful in their lives. Spoiler alert: we are human and just doing our best.
Kate just keeps reminding us over and over that there is so much letting go that is constantly taking place to grow: “By letting the perfect that I thought I needed go, it allowed me to be at peace with who I am with what’s left.”
Some highlights in this Episode from Kate:
“You want to say, ‘Oh, I won’t lose anything because I’m real now’, but you will lose all kinds of stuff and it hurts. And you wonder, well, maybe that other person was better than the real me because maybe that's why I created that person in the first place. But after all I’ve gone through, that now that I am on the other side, I can say, oh… the people who are still here right now, they know what’s on the inside. And they love it.”
"And I think, certainly going through the divorce, I lost that exact thing. And it's very interesting to be fully supported and loved by a partner, but have them not be able to take on that anxiety, or compassion. I guess it is like, they don't need to, and they aren't. They can't have the same level of feeling towards your kid."
"Starting a whole new life, when you're a fully fledged adult is complicated. I was married for 13 years, we just sort of grew up together. And now... new relationship, new family members, new home, new job—it's like learning all of this stuff over again. So there's a huge learning curve in terms of that blending of people, and who you want to be in that mix."
Don't Miss a Beat.
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Website for Kate Eckstein Design:
http://www.kateecksteindesign.com/
Kate's Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/kateecksteindesign/
Original Music for Let Perfect Burn by Eleri Ward
https://www.instagram.com/eleriward/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:06):
perfect perfect
Tara Beckett (00:33):
Hi, I'm Tara Beckett and I'm so glad you're
back to let perfect burn.
Today I sit down with KateEckstein of Kate Eckstein
design. Kate owns her owninterior design business, which
she started after she left thecorporate world. Kate was
(00:57):
running her business and raisingtwo small boys. When she
discovered that the woman shewas presenting to the world was
not her true self. Then she hadto acknowledge she was not her
true self in her marriage. Katetalks to us about the shedding
that happens in divorce, and thepain of what is lost. Even if
(01:18):
authenticity is found. Like me,Kate is the mother of a
neurodivergent child. We talkabout our perfectionistic
personalities and how they bleedinto motherhood. We talked about
how we find ourselves chasingour child's brain because our
son's needs are so great. Katejust keeps reminding us over and
(01:39):
over that there is so muchletting go that is constantly
taking place to grow. She saysby letting the perfect that I
thought I needed go it allowedme to be at peace with who I am
with what's leftI'm here today with Kate
(02:04):
Eckstein have K Eckstein design,right.
Kate Eckstein (02:10):
That's right.
Hello, yeah.
Tara Beckett (02:13):
You know, interior designer owning her own business
supermom one of my dear friends.
And Kay, I have to tell you, youwere my point person. When I
first became a mom, I stillremember that you taught me how
to change a boy's diaper.
Kate Eckstein (02:31):
That's a valuable life skill right there.
Tara Beckett (02:34):
And we were in my husband's office. And you know,
new parents were wild eyed andhad no idea what we were doing.
And you're like, Okay, I'm gonnateach you how to change a diaper
without getting. And exactly.
Again, I have to say, um, I cancount on one hand how many times
I got peed on. So and I have twoboys. So thank you so much.
Kate Eckstein (02:57):
Yeah, you're welcome. I am so happy to spread
that knowledge. And, you know,it's like you need those people
who are ready to just tell youthe stuff that no one else is
going to tell you.
Tara Beckett (03:08):
Yes, yes. And Kate was also the mom, who, when I
was in the throes of postpartumdepression, and having a
newborn, I would call Kate or Iwould email Kay. And I would
just be so convinced that thiswas my life forever, it would
never get any better. I wouldnever feel more confident as a
(03:29):
mom, I would never know what Iwas doing. I would never sleep
again. And Kate was this voicewho had made it to the other
side. And would promise me like,Tara, just hang in there, it
gets better.
Kate Eckstein (03:43):
It does. And you know what's funny, like you
can't see it when it's you. Youjust can't. And I think now that
I've gone through a divorce andlike having stepchildren and
like all of these other hugethings. I need someone to tell
me that. So it's, you know,we'll just trade places
sometimes.
Tara Beckett (03:59):
Exactly. So, you know, in speaking about, like,
you know, what's happened inyour life recently? Can you
speak to the process of yourdivorce? And, you know, was that
a breaking point or a turningpoint for you?
Kate Eckstein (04:12):
Yes, it was, it was pretty much me cracking open
all of the things that I thoughtI had, that I knew about myself.
It was the things that I had setup to be the me that people saw,
you know, like the I was, I wasalways having dinner parties.
And I had my kids. You know, Iwalked into school in the
morning and I also ran abusiness and I was doing so many
(04:35):
things at such a high level. Andthen I broke and for me, the
breaking point was when Irealized that I was faking in my
marriage where I thought I wasbeing real. And when I began to
realize that I had to be honestwith myself about that. I became
honest with myself abouteverything. And it was
(04:58):
definitely a turning point forme as a person. It was
definitely the messiest I'veever let myself get both in my
own eyes and in the eyes of theworld, like, I fell apart. And
what I've realized is, it'stotally fine to fall apart. And
it's totally Oh girl to fallapart. You know, you didn't want
(05:19):
to fall apart. And that soundsso dumb to say out loud,
because, of course, people haveto go through shit. But I needed
to learn firsthand that it isgood to be messy.
Tara Beckett (05:31):
Oh, yes. And also really hard and really painful.
Oh,
Kate Eckstein (05:36):
yes, Grace, Tara.
And like, you lose, you lose alot. When you're real, you know,
you lose, I lost at least onevery close friend. Because all
of a sudden, I was like, This isme right now. And she wasn't
cool with it. And that hurt.
Because there were people whowere in my life because of the
(05:56):
person I was portraying. Andthose people fall away when you
shed that. And that hurts socks.
Tara Beckett (06:05):
Yeah. And that feels extremely vulnerable to me
to be honest of saying, youknow, being okay with what gets
shed, honestly. Yeah. I feellike I can, you know, understand
that to an extent of just, whatwill I lose? If I'm authentic?
Kate Eckstein (06:23):
Yes. And the fact is, there's a long list, like
you want to say, Oh, I won'tlose anything, because like, I'm
real, did it, but you will youlose all kinds of stuff, and it
hurts. And you wonder, well,maybe that other person was
better than the real me becauselike, maybe that's why I sort of
created that person in the firstplace, you know, but it's not,
(06:44):
it's definitely not. And now, Imean, it took me years of having
children and learning that I'mnot in charge over and over
again, and getting divorced. Andall these things that I've gone
through now that I'm on theother side, I can say, oh, like
the people who are still hereright now. They know what's on
(07:06):
the inside. And they are theylove it.
Tara Beckett (07:24):
Speaking to just your professional life as this
was all happening, when I metyou, you are still in corporate
America. So can you can you walkus through what that journey has
been? And how it relates to whatyou're talking about?
Kate Eckstein (07:37):
Yeah, that's really interesting. Because
first, I would say even now, I'mreally good at putting on a mask
at work. And I think, in manyways, that's okay. Because it
has helped me be extremelyproductive, even during times
when my brain was falling apart,and my heart was falling apart.
You know, I could still getstuff done. But so yes, I was in
(08:01):
corporate America, working for aconsulting firm. And my youngest
was two. And that was about whenI started feeling like, oh, this
is terrible to travel all thetime and not be able to pick him
up from daycare when he's sick.
Or, you know, it was just thetravel, it was a lot. And I was
working in the evenings after hewent to bed. And it was just
(08:23):
this constant, like, I'm alwayscommitted to someone else. Other
than him, and other than myother son. And so I kind of
said, I would love to stoptraveling. I am not someone who
can not have a job, like mybrain is definitely I need to be
focused, I need a goal. InteriorDesign was something that I
(08:44):
always loved. But I never I, Ialmost went to architecture
school, I almost did a designprogram that each time I sort of
talked my way out of it, for youknow, the more solid career that
was going to make a paycheckright away and was nine to five,
and you know, all those thingswere good for a while. And then
I finally felt free enough andcomfortable enough being a
(09:06):
parent and being a person that Iwas like, I think I can do this.
And I'm gonna just go out on myown. So I left the corporate
world and everyone gave me theirblessings. It was not a no, a
terrible breakup. It was justlike, great, go follow your
heart, see if you can do thiscrazy thing. And in retrospect,
it happened really quickly. Butall of a sudden, I felt like oh
(09:29):
my gosh, I'm really doing this.
And it just kept ballooning. Andnow I feel like I'm truly
running a successful company. Ihave other awesome women working
with me. And for me, I haveclients who recommend me to
their friends, and you know,I've, I've built it and it's
there.
Tara Beckett (09:48):
That's awesome.
And now that you're in quotesthere, right, like, what are the
challenges in this particularmoment, right? Oh, yeah, I just
don't feel like life is As everthis like, mountain top and we
get there and right, we'vearrived, right like right
Kate Eckstein (10:06):
now it's true.
It's easier to talk about itlike that though, isn't it? Yes.
Let's just beautify this journeya little bit. Yes, I definitely
have challenges now. And mychallenges now are related to
growing the business and like,what does it mean to be
successful to me? And what aremy goals for that business?
Like, alright, you did it.
(10:27):
Great. Now, do you want to havea team? Do you want to be doing
multimillion dollar projects? Doyou want to be in a magazine? Do
you want to be on HGTV? Like,all of these directions, have
different work that needs to bedone? And I definitely struggle
with figuring out which one Iwant to do on a given day? And
(10:49):
what kind of work I should beputting in? And am I good
enough? And do I have enoughtime to like commit to the
things I'll need to commit to inorder to achieve that? And then
of course, being a mom, there'salso that like, really big
question, which is, am I findingthe right balance between work
and home? And that's when Idon't think I'll ever win?
Tara Beckett (11:14):
Figure that out?
No, I don't think so. either. Ithink it's a daily for me, it's
a daily, what what's thebarometer look like today? You
know, total, and you know, youwin some you lose some. And
it's, I think it's the selfcompassion to just be like, I
did my best. Yeah. But I thinkas a mom, it's really hard to
think I did my best, right?
Kate Eckstein (11:35):
I was just gonna say, I'm really bad at that as
on the personal side. On theprofessional side, I've gotten
better at saying like, okay, youknow what, you didn't get that,
that presentation out to theclient the exact day you said
you would, you know, this isinterior design, this is not
brain surgery, clients are goingto be fine. People love you like
it's okay. It's much harder tosay that to yourself as a
(11:56):
parent.
Tara Beckett (12:03):
Circling back a little bit to the transformation
in divorce. What challenges doyou have now you were saying
stepchildren as well as your owntwo children? Can you speak to
that a bit?
Kate Eckstein (12:15):
Yeah. I mean, starting a whole new life, when
you're a fully fledged adult iscomplicated. It's like, you
know, I was married for 13years, we just sort of grew up
together. And now newrelationship, new family
members, new home, new job, it'slike learning all of this stuff
(12:36):
over again. So there's a hugelearning curve in terms of that
blending of people, and who youwant to be in that mix.
Tara Beckett (12:51):
So another thing that Kate and I have really
bonded over the past few years,is raising neurodivergent
children. And what that means asa mother, and Kate, I'm just
really floored by one time thatwe talked and you would just had
a session with your therapist,could you share that story?
(13:12):
Because I really think it bringshome, sometimes how we feel,
Kate Eckstein (13:16):
I don't remember which one. It was, I'm so glad
it was life changing.
Tara Beckett (13:22):
You were just saying about how sometimes you
can feel like you're talking toyour therapist about how
sometimes you could just feellike you're running your wheels,
right? Like you're doing allthis work to help your child and
then you the winds are so small,or they seem so small sometimes,
Kate Eckstein (13:36):
yes. And she reminded me of something really
important, which is not just tojudge where you are now, against
the rest of the world. It's morelike where you are now versus
where you would be if you hadn'tdone the work. So specifically,
she was talking about my sonwith ADHD and anxiety. And he's
11 years old. He's trying tonavigate Middle School, he's,
(14:00):
let's say not winning at thesocial stuff right now. And it's
hard to watch. It's hard towatch. And it's hard to parent
because I'm different than heis. And I can't always relate to
the way that he feels in acertain situation. And I was
kind of saying to her like, Ifeel like we're we've been
(14:21):
working so hard. And we're stillat a place where it's not. It's
not working like there's noimprovement. I don't see change.
I don't see success. And shesaid don't worry about seeing
success, you know, on a scalethat you're the scale that
you're looking for it on is toobig. Think about if you hadn't
(14:42):
spent the last 11 years caringfor him in the way that you
have. Where would he be rightnow? He'd be a mess. Like the
skills that he does have yougave those to him and the things
that he has learned. You helpedhim with that. So sort of giving
yourself a little bit more Pat'son the back to say, not only is
(15:03):
this really hard, but you'reprobably doing a better job than
you think you are.
Tara Beckett (15:06):
Yes, yes. And I just I think you can relate to
this, but just how you'resaying, you know, life for us
isn't about reaching that top ofthe mountain, right? We figure
it all out, and we just stay uphigh. But I can feel like I do
that with my son is just beinglike, Oh, look, we got all the
things in place, and you'rehaving a really good stretch.
(15:27):
And then I just think now I canjust go drink a margarita,
right? Like there's nothing leftto do here. And understanding
that even in these littlebodies, there's going to be
these ebbs and flows, there'sgoing to be these highs and
lows, like they are humans, theyare not something to be solved.
And I think I can feel like Isometimes can view him that way
(15:49):
of let me just get all thepuzzle pieces right for you.
Kate Eckstein (15:52):
Totally this and it's like, okay, can I figure
this out? Can I figure you out?
And, of course, there's noanswer to that. But of course,
every day, that's what we wakeup trying to do. Yeah, I'm
trying to, like, name thesethings and fix these things in
Google these things, when it'sjust a messy mess of a person
just like we are.
Tara Beckett (16:14):
Yeah. And I was gonna say, you know, kids are
complicated in and ofthemselves, right? They're
trying to find their identity,they're trying to navigate
social situations and learning.
And, you know, I just feel likethere's this extra layer within
neurodivergent child that, youknow, just, you know, having to
check in more often with schoolsand doctors and medication, you
(16:35):
know, all these things. Butalso, I don't know if you have
this as well, but I just feellike my heart feels a little
heavier when he's in thatstruggling place. Right?
Kate Eckstein (16:47):
Oh, 100%. Yeah.
And I find that I take on, Ihave anxiety about how he'll act
in a certain situation, which isnot even the like, you know,
what am I going to do? Or howcan I help him just like, I'm
stressed that he's who he is,and then really feels bad as a
parent.
Tara Beckett (17:11):
Yes. And watching the struggle and knowing your
job is just to support right,there's yeah, there's no fix.
There's no, it's watching it,you know, watching them
navigate? Even though it'sreally hard.
Kate Eckstein (17:29):
Yeah. And watching him make the same,
especially for him the samesocial mistakes over and over
again, like, and I can tell hima million times, like, Did you
realize that that hurt someone'sfeelings? Or do you realize that
that sentence, make someone elsefeel bad? Or, you know, whatever
it is? And honestly, sometimes Idon't think he does. And that is
(17:50):
a huge difference with aneurodivergent child, like, for
a quote unquote, normal kidparent relationship, you would
remind them, hey, that hurtsomeone's feelings. And the kid
might say, Oh, I'm sorry. Orlike, I didn't mean that, or
whatever. But for some reason,Owens brain hears those words
from me differently, and cannotfix it in a way that feels age
(18:14):
appropriate. And it stinks towatch that. And then you'll
begin to wonder, I begin towonder, Am I saying the wrong
things? Like, am I not givinghim the right cues? Am I not
giving him the rightinformation? But the fact is,
his brain works differently,period. And I can't change it no
matter how hard I try.
Tara Beckett (18:45):
I do think like hitting on, like you said, that
social pressure, and what I'mtrying to be better at as well
as even in family memberssituations, or, you know, close
friends situations where peopleare aware of some of those
things, it can feel like I'mbeing judged as a mom, right?
(19:06):
Oh,
Kate Eckstein (19:06):
100%. Yes. And I, especially in my blended family
situation right now. You know,in my previous life, we had 11
years to get used to the toughstuff about a woman and the
things that sort of just became,oh, well, that's the way he
handles the situation. And whatI realized in being in a family
(19:29):
with new people is that some ofthese things are not okay. And
some of them are not going to beokay with people who are not,
who have not been with him sincehe was born. And it's helpful.
It's so helpful for me to be in,you know, a safe space where
people do care about him, butthey're also able to say, no,
(19:51):
like, you can't act like that.
And a way like with me, youknow, right. I don't know, the
blended family I think makesthat even another level because
Is there are people who arefamily? And still they, they
know, they don't feel what Ifeel when Oh, when is in the
room? Right?
Tara Beckett (20:09):
And it's good and bad? Yes. And I, I just know
that a mother, you know, I feelas a mother, my connection with
him is so intimate that therough patches, I still have that
(20:30):
piece of me that he's my littleboy. Right. And there's like a
compassion there that I thinksometimes the outsider I know,
the outside world isn't privyto.
Kate Eckstein (20:41):
Yes, totally. I feel that. And I definitely have
had moments where it feels like,am I the only one in the world?
Who thinks there is still goodin this little person? And
sometimes I think the answer tothat is yes. Which is a lot of
weight, you know, it's a lot ofweight to carry. And it's a,
(21:01):
it's a job that sometimes I wishI didn't have to do be the only
one advocating for a, you know,someone who's not acting like
they deserve it.
Tara Beckett (21:13):
Right. Right. And, you know, Kate, it's also
friends with my husband, whichis nice, because we have that
like dual support in you. And Ijust feel like having, you know,
my husband turned towards me andshare some of the load that
(21:34):
comes from trying to supportthese little humans. That means
the world to me like that canmake the difference between a
totally terrible day and a day Ican get through, right? It's
just having somebody look up andsay, Woof, I feel Yeah, hang in
there. Right.
Kate Eckstein (21:51):
Yup. And to say some of this is on me, too,
because I'm also a parent ofthis person. And I think, I
think certainly going throughthe divorce, I lost that exact
thing. Yes. Yeah. And it's veryinteresting to be, like, fully
supported and loved by apartner, but have them not be
(22:13):
able to take on that. I don'tknow anxiety or, or compassion.
I guess it is like, they don'tneed to, and they aren't. They
can't have the same level offeeling towards your kid.
Tara Beckett (22:32):
Yep. Yep. That feels messy.
Kate Eckstein (22:37):
Yeah, it is. And it does, it just goes back to
that, like very intimate momrelationship, like, regardless
of who your partner is, you takea lot of that on. And I don't
know when that ends, you know,Owens in middle school. Now,
there are definitely a lot oftimes recently where I feel
like, oh, you know what hereally is like, going off and
(22:58):
he's growing up. And he's doingthings with friends that don't
involve me, and this is greatprogress. But I don't know when
I'll be able to let go of thatstuff. Ya know what age that is?
Tara Beckett (23:10):
I think that's never a cordapp I think my
mother Yeah, she's like, youknow, might when my baby is 40
it's still like, you're three,you know, it's just yeah, keep
worrying. I just think that weyou know, we have this forever
lifeline to them. Which is goodand also terrifying.
Kate Eckstein (23:29):
Yes.
Tara Beckett (23:45):
I picked up on you saying, you know, that sometimes
you'll share the anxiety withyour child as they're having
that anxious wave. I'm the otherend of the spectrum. I feel like
depression comes matches hiswaves. And I am just wondering
if you've figured out anythingthat can help you navigate the
(24:08):
ways the waves in a more healthyor a healthier way? Because that
is my struggle is like how do Inot let myself get carried into
it? For my own health, but alsoso that I can support this child
and I have yet figured that outyet.
Kate Eckstein (24:26):
You know, I was just gonna say wine is really my
only coping mechanism that'sdoesn't fall into the healthy
category. No, it's a reallygreat question. Because
obviously, you have to take careof yourself so that you can take
care of your kid. But a lot oftimes, it's too much. It's too
much because it's too much forthem and it's too much for us
(24:48):
and then who's left? And I don'thave a magical answer for that
except to say, I tried to talkwith Oh in about the that
feeling as much as I can, likeyou are, you may be feeling
anxious, because I'm feelinganxious. And here's what I'm
(25:09):
worried about, I'm worried aboutyou hurting relationships with
your family members, and I'mworried about you, not knowing
how to act with your friendswhen I'm not around, and I'm,
you know, I, if I can voice someof those worries to him, not
that I worry that he's nevergoing to get better, but more
like, I'm worried because I needto know from you that you're
also thinking about this,because he's old enough to like,
(25:33):
take a lead in helping himself,right. And he doesn't always
know, he doesn't really everknow how and so that those
conversations do help me feellike, okay, I can take off a
little bit of this, because Ineed to say to him, you're 11,
you're gonna need to figure outhow to do this on your own. And
that's something I didn't havewhen he was three, you know, you
(25:54):
don't have a three year old thatthey need to take this on and
figure it out. But I do thinkit's healthy for both of us, if
I begin to shift some of thatback to him to say like, you do
need to work on this, and I'mhere and I love you, and I'll
support you, but it's not myproblem to solve.
Tara Beckett (26:12):
Right. I think that's awesome. And I'm not
quite there yet. And I thinksomething that can be really
challenging both as thesechildren are young, but also
just with some of theirchallenges that they have is the
lack of insight can make growthreally hard, because, you know,
(26:32):
like we are in therapy, both ofus. And we have this ability to
kind of look forward andbackward and process. But I
think sometimes it's reallymissing for these kiddos of
having that level of insight.
Kate Eckstein (26:47):
Yes, I have got this really great workbook that
my therapist recommended for meto do with Owen. And it was a
little bit childish, but it wasan exercise of like, every night
when I had that quiet time withhim before bed, we would read a
couple of the pages, which weremostly about like skills that
kids with ADHD tend to lack.
Like the ability to wait or tobe patient or to not interrupt
(27:09):
or you know, whatever, we'd readsort of a little story about
someone who was struggling withit, then there were a couple of
questions that were like aworksheet about like, how, how
does it look when I do this? Andwhat can I do when I feel like
this. And then I would kind ofclose it out with a conversation
of like, everyone struggles withthis, right? Like you are not
alone. But it may be harder foryou than it is for other people,
(27:33):
which is why I'm trying to giveyou a little extra help
Tara Beckett (27:48):
like you said, that night time time, I just
feel like that is the mostprecious time that I have with
my child because I can feel likeI'm chasing his brain all day
long between, you know, workingwith counseling and working with
his teacher and working with adoctor and working you know, all
these things that are, you know,a very support, but you know,
(28:09):
even a workbook or just the factthat we're quiet together. I
feel like I love when it allstands still because it doesn't
stand still often.
Kate Eckstein (28:19):
Yep. Amen, sister.
Tara Beckett (28:23):
So yeah, do you remember what that workbook was
called?
Kate Eckstein (28:26):
Yes, it is a it's a dialectical therapy workbook.
And I think it was calledsomething generic, like
dialectical therapy foradolescents or for children.
And, you know, it was on Amazon,I have a whole shelf full of
books and workbooks and thingsthat I've bought throughout the
years that either have been readand just weren't that helpful or
(28:50):
haven't even been read because Ihaven't had the time. I don't
know that there's a book outthere that's gonna solve this,
you know, but I do keep feelinglike maybe someone else's words
can help get this across to himin a different way than I've
tried so far. And I don't know.
I mean, I did, like you said,chasing his brain. That's such a
good expression. Like, Idefinitely feel like I'm, I'm
chasing the, what can I do aboutthis? You know, this question.
(29:14):
I'm a very solution orientedperson. Okay, here's the
problem. Let's fix it. And thething that I have to remind
myself over and over again, isthis isn't something that can
just be fixed. This is anongoing conversation with a
person who doesn't think aboutthings the way that I do. Mm
hmm. And it's hard.
Tara Beckett (29:36):
Yes. Yes, and I yeah, I mean, I just feel like
the books is just it's it's kindof giving me a little bit of
like a shake in my belly justbecause like, I think I've read
them all, you know, yeah, it'sjust seeking, seeking like, like
you said, the key to the castle.
I think I'm turning hang myhead, or I'm trying to turn my
(30:01):
head around is like, what if Ijust looked for a support group
for kids like this? Only becauseI'm like, like you said, maybe
there's nothing to really muscleabout this. And I wonder if just
sitting with parents like youwho just know what I'm talking
about? Yeah. And I haven't foundit yet, but it just feels like
(30:22):
what if we shift gears here?
Kate Eckstein (30:24):
Right? I definitely think I'm sure they
exist. I, it that's interestingthat you say that, because that
takes me back to like, when Iwas dealing with infertility and
trouble having children, like Ijoined, you know, there were all
these online groups, and webared our souls to each other.
And we knew what day and thecycle this person was on. And
(30:44):
like, did we just walked next toeach other through that journey?
And in that way, it was easierto say, I'm not trying to fix
this, because it was like amedical problem. You know, it's
a, it's for me, somehow, thatwas much easier for me to let go
and say, This is really hard,but it's out of my control. And
like, yes, let's share withother people who are going
through this, but I didn'texpect those people to figure
(31:07):
out my problem. And I think thatcould be very useful for people
who are just walking throughthis, like there is there is no
answer. But it is nice to havesomeone there who is just like,
yeah, yeah, and you know what?
You did the best you could?
Yeah, good. Yes.
Tara Beckett (31:28):
I just want it like tattooed on my forehead.
Probably backwards, so that Ican read it here. But just to be
like, you're doing your best,you know, like your best. You
know, I think it like you said,my best can feel like absolute
shit, right? Yes, I am failingyou, child, even though I know
(31:48):
that is so not true. Like I amgiving him 100% of me. And
because I'm a human. That's notgoing to be perfect. But you
know, there's just not any moreI could give. And yet there's
just this like, really selfcritical voice that I hear a lot
in my head.
Kate Eckstein (32:06):
Yes. And yeah, I mean, like you said before,
it's, we I definitely feeljudged as a mother, which is a
very unfair thing to put onyourself, right? Like, this is a
person who has his own mind. Thefact that you act a certain way
is not actually a reflection onyou, the mother, but man, does
(32:27):
it feel like it and I can't seemto let that one go. Not Your
call is the message.
Tara Beckett (32:33):
Right? And I'm just thinking of two, I feel
like part of our job in thisstrange way, whether it's, you
know, the schools or, you know,after school activities or
friends, I always feel like I'min education mode of how to
communicate the event that'sunfolding, and how to talk to
(32:58):
him so that he can regulate. Andyou know, so I think there's
also I always feel like I'm inteaching mode. I don't know if
you have that as well.
Kate Eckstein (33:06):
Yes, definitely.
Because I feel like I'm alwaystrying to not excuse but put
context around why he is how heis or why he did what he did.
And certainly, like inelementary school, you I got the
phone call or the pink slip tosign of like, you know, they go
in hit someone or like, oh, youknow, every single thing that
(33:28):
happened, it would be like,Okay, I hear you, I see this,
tell me what happened so that Ican understand what actually
happened, because it's not goingto be the way that you told it
Tara Beckett (33:51):
I'm always like, how do I keep this book open
about you know, if he's a booklike that is my worst fear is
that if he starts shutting down,then I have no access right to
his brain. So I'm using thislike, I want to teach, you know,
the social skills and these lifeskills and also I'm like, I
gotta keep you in a place whereyou feel like you can keep
(34:13):
talking to me which maybe diesin teenager but I don't know, I
was just gonna
Kate Eckstein (34:17):
say puberty at the end of that I'm on the verge
of of the that study down and ithas nothing to do with my
parenting. It's a naturalprogression. But yeah, like we
lose that and and then have Wegiven them enough you know, to
do it themselves and we won'tknow until it happens.
Tara Beckett (34:38):
Yep, yep. And fly little bird and hope we did our
best. Yes, and you know, I alsofeel like you know, as you spoke
about just a little bit ago, butthat I don't know I have this
idea sometimes that because Ialso went through miscarriages
and infertility. And thenultimately IVF that sometimes I
(35:03):
can just feel like, wow, I wasstruggling then shouldn't I get
a pass?
Kate Eckstein (35:12):
Yes, yes, there should be some sort of exchange
that you get the perfect babyafter you've waited forever. I
don't know who those perfectbabies are. And I don't know who
they're going. Fortunately, itdoesn't work that way.
Tara Beckett (35:31):
Yes. So what we did you know, there isn't a
perfect human out there. But Ido think if I, if I could tell
some of the people who don'tknow my child is intimately. I
would love to just stay to them.
He's so creative. He's so softand loving. And he's so for you
beautiful and sweet at times.
(35:58):
And what you're seeing now isnot indicative of his whole
being right. And that's thething I wish I could just like
scream from the rooftops inthose moments where he's just
struggling. And it doesn't feellike they're really seeing him.
Kate Eckstein (36:15):
Yes, actually, that is something I've been very
explicit with Owen aboutrecently. I will say, look, I
love you, I love you, no matterwhat I love everything about
you, even when you do the wrongthing, you know, whatever. But
other people in the world do nothave to, and they're not going
to unless they see the greatperson who is inside of you. And
(36:37):
if all they see is theinappropriate jokes and the rude
comments, they're going to thinkthat's all there is. And I it is
really different now that he'solder. I do feel a bit of that,
like, I feel less responsiblefor sharing that part of him
because he is beginning to beable to share it himself.
Tara Beckett (37:00):
Good. That's awesome. Yeah. Because that's
that's all I mean, for me,that's all I want, right? It's
like, yeah, I just want you Iwould love to have people be
able to access the things I canaccess.
Kate Eckstein (37:14):
That's exactly it. That's such a great way to
put it. Like, I know whatawesomeness is inside there. But
he makes it really hard forother people to see it and
appreciate it. Okay,
Tara Beckett (37:36):
this has been fun.
To close this out. I would justlove to know, you know, what
letting perfect burn is for you.
Kate Eckstein (37:45):
Woof letting burn. This is big. Yeah, I think
letting perfect burn is for methis image of what I have left
behind, like, like we startedout talking about on the show,
like the things that I haveshed, those are the things that
I have let burn. And I have letthem burn away. I have let them
(38:07):
disappear. You know, sometimesthey still come back up, but
letting the the perfect that Ithought I needed to be go allows
me to be at peace with who I amwith what's left. You know,
like, you've let things go. Andit's just this, this feeling
(38:29):
that what's left is the rightthing.
Tara Beckett (38:32):
I love that. And I think as you're speaking I'm
like oh, I might have to do thisagain and again. Like 14
shedding Yeah. Taking stock andshedding you know
Kate Eckstein (38:47):
Yeah, I think that's it and I think that's it
is it's letting the perfectburn. Again and again and again
in a million different ways.
Tara Beckett (38:55):
Mm hmm. Oh, girl.
That's a that's a recordingsession. Right? Well, okay, it's
been so awesome to be able tospeak with you and have you
speak to so many things that Ialso carry in my heart. So thank
you, lady. It's been
Kate Eckstein (39:14):
Yes, thank you and I'm really excited about the
things that you're talking aboutand like putting out there
because it's really importantand we all need to hear it no
matter how where we are in ourlives.
Tara Beckett (39:26):
Yes girl thank you so much I'm I'm also just really
fulfilled lately of just reallyhitting on a moment in time that
I go Yeah, I want to get up inthe morning and do this. Which
then really absent for manyyears so yeah, let's let's just
keep waking up at least ready toready to give the day the best
(39:48):
you know?
Kate Eckstein (39:48):
Yes, do the best you can let that perfect burn.
Tara Beckett (39:52):
Thanks, girl. It's been I have you bye
perfect perfect
Tara Beckett (00:33):
Hi, I'm Tara Beckett and I'm so glad you're
back to let perfect burn.
Today I sit down with KateEckstein of Kate Eckstein
design. Kate owns her owninterior design business, which
she started after she left thecorporate world. Kate was
(00:57):
running her business and raisingtwo small boys. When she
discovered that the woman shewas presenting to the world was
not her true self. Then she hadto acknowledge she was not her
true self in her marriage. Katetalks to us about the shedding
that happens in divorce, and thepain of what is lost. Even if
(01:18):
authenticity is found. Like me,Kate is the mother of a
neurodivergent child. We talkabout our perfectionistic
personalities and how they bleedinto motherhood. We talked about
how we find ourselves chasingour child's brain because our
son's needs are so great. Katejust keeps reminding us over and
(01:39):
over that there is so muchletting go that is constantly
taking place to grow. She saysby letting the perfect that I
thought I needed go it allowedme to be at peace with who I am
with what's leftI'm here today with Kate
(02:04):
Eckstein have K Eckstein design,right.
Kate Eckstein (02:10):
That's right.
Hello, yeah.
Tara Beckett (02:13):
You know, interior designer owning her own business
supermom one of my dear friends.
And Kay, I have to tell you, youwere my point person. When I
first became a mom, I stillremember that you taught me how
to change a boy's diaper.
Kate Eckstein (02:31):
That's a valuable life skill right there.
Tara Beckett (02:34):
And we were in my husband's office. And you know,
new parents were wild eyed andhad no idea what we were doing.
And you're like, Okay, I'm gonnateach you how to change a diaper
without getting. And exactly.
Again, I have to say, um, I cancount on one hand how many times
I got peed on. So and I have twoboys. So thank you so much.
Kate Eckstein (02:57):
Yeah, you're welcome. I am so happy to spread
that knowledge. And, you know,it's like you need those people
who are ready to just tell youthe stuff that no one else is
going to tell you.
Tara Beckett (03:08):
Yes, yes. And Kate was also the mom, who, when I
was in the throes of postpartumdepression, and having a
newborn, I would call Kate or Iwould email Kay. And I would
just be so convinced that thiswas my life forever, it would
never get any better. I wouldnever feel more confident as a
(03:29):
mom, I would never know what Iwas doing. I would never sleep
again. And Kate was this voicewho had made it to the other
side. And would promise me like,Tara, just hang in there, it
gets better.
Kate Eckstein (03:43):
It does. And you know what's funny, like you
can't see it when it's you. Youjust can't. And I think now that
I've gone through a divorce andlike having stepchildren and
like all of these other hugethings. I need someone to tell
me that. So it's, you know,we'll just trade places
sometimes.
Tara Beckett (03:59):
Exactly. So, you know, in speaking about, like,
you know, what's happened inyour life recently? Can you
speak to the process of yourdivorce? And, you know, was that
a breaking point or a turningpoint for you?
Kate Eckstein (04:12):
Yes, it was, it was pretty much me cracking open
all of the things that I thoughtI had, that I knew about myself.
It was the things that I had setup to be the me that people saw,
you know, like the I was, I wasalways having dinner parties.
And I had my kids. You know, Iwalked into school in the
morning and I also ran abusiness and I was doing so many
(04:35):
things at such a high level. Andthen I broke and for me, the
breaking point was when Irealized that I was faking in my
marriage where I thought I wasbeing real. And when I began to
realize that I had to be honestwith myself about that. I became
honest with myself abouteverything. And it was
(04:58):
definitely a turning point forme as a person. It was
definitely the messiest I'veever let myself get both in my
own eyes and in the eyes of theworld, like, I fell apart. And
what I've realized is, it'stotally fine to fall apart. And
it's totally Oh girl to fallapart. You know, you didn't want
(05:19):
to fall apart. And that soundsso dumb to say out loud,
because, of course, people haveto go through shit. But I needed
to learn firsthand that it isgood to be messy.
Tara Beckett (05:31):
Oh, yes. And also really hard and really painful.
Oh,
Kate Eckstein (05:36):
yes, Grace, Tara.
And like, you lose, you lose alot. When you're real, you know,
you lose, I lost at least onevery close friend. Because all
of a sudden, I was like, This isme right now. And she wasn't
cool with it. And that hurt.
Because there were people whowere in my life because of the
(05:56):
person I was portraying. Andthose people fall away when you
shed that. And that hurts socks.
Tara Beckett (06:05):
Yeah. And that feels extremely vulnerable to me
to be honest of saying, youknow, being okay with what gets
shed, honestly. Yeah. I feellike I can, you know, understand
that to an extent of just, whatwill I lose? If I'm authentic?
Kate Eckstein (06:23):
Yes. And the fact is, there's a long list, like
you want to say, Oh, I won'tlose anything, because like, I'm
real, did it, but you will youlose all kinds of stuff, and it
hurts. And you wonder, well,maybe that other person was
better than the real me becauselike, maybe that's why I sort of
created that person in the firstplace, you know, but it's not,
(06:44):
it's definitely not. And now, Imean, it took me years of having
children and learning that I'mnot in charge over and over
again, and getting divorced. Andall these things that I've gone
through now that I'm on theother side, I can say, oh, like
the people who are still hereright now. They know what's on
(07:06):
the inside. And they are theylove it.
Tara Beckett (07:24):
Speaking to just your professional life as this
was all happening, when I metyou, you are still in corporate
America. So can you can you walkus through what that journey has
been? And how it relates to whatyou're talking about?
Kate Eckstein (07:37):
Yeah, that's really interesting. Because
first, I would say even now, I'mreally good at putting on a mask
at work. And I think, in manyways, that's okay. Because it
has helped me be extremelyproductive, even during times
when my brain was falling apart,and my heart was falling apart.
You know, I could still getstuff done. But so yes, I was in
(08:01):
corporate America, working for aconsulting firm. And my youngest
was two. And that was about whenI started feeling like, oh, this
is terrible to travel all thetime and not be able to pick him
up from daycare when he's sick.
Or, you know, it was just thetravel, it was a lot. And I was
working in the evenings after hewent to bed. And it was just
(08:23):
this constant, like, I'm alwayscommitted to someone else. Other
than him, and other than myother son. And so I kind of
said, I would love to stoptraveling. I am not someone who
can not have a job, like mybrain is definitely I need to be
focused, I need a goal. InteriorDesign was something that I
(08:44):
always loved. But I never I, Ialmost went to architecture
school, I almost did a designprogram that each time I sort of
talked my way out of it, for youknow, the more solid career that
was going to make a paycheckright away and was nine to five,
and you know, all those thingswere good for a while. And then
I finally felt free enough andcomfortable enough being a
(09:06):
parent and being a person that Iwas like, I think I can do this.
And I'm gonna just go out on myown. So I left the corporate
world and everyone gave me theirblessings. It was not a no, a
terrible breakup. It was justlike, great, go follow your
heart, see if you can do thiscrazy thing. And in retrospect,
it happened really quickly. Butall of a sudden, I felt like oh
(09:29):
my gosh, I'm really doing this.
And it just kept ballooning. Andnow I feel like I'm truly
running a successful company. Ihave other awesome women working
with me. And for me, I haveclients who recommend me to
their friends, and you know,I've, I've built it and it's
there.
Tara Beckett (09:48):
That's awesome.
And now that you're in quotesthere, right, like, what are the
challenges in this particularmoment, right? Oh, yeah, I just
don't feel like life is As everthis like, mountain top and we
get there and right, we'vearrived, right like right
Kate Eckstein (10:06):
now it's true.
It's easier to talk about itlike that though, isn't it? Yes.
Let's just beautify this journeya little bit. Yes, I definitely
have challenges now. And mychallenges now are related to
growing the business and like,what does it mean to be
successful to me? And what aremy goals for that business?
Like, alright, you did it.
(10:27):
Great. Now, do you want to havea team? Do you want to be doing
multimillion dollar projects? Doyou want to be in a magazine? Do
you want to be on HGTV? Like,all of these directions, have
different work that needs to bedone? And I definitely struggle
with figuring out which one Iwant to do on a given day? And
(10:49):
what kind of work I should beputting in? And am I good
enough? And do I have enoughtime to like commit to the
things I'll need to commit to inorder to achieve that? And then
of course, being a mom, there'salso that like, really big
question, which is, am I findingthe right balance between work
and home? And that's when Idon't think I'll ever win?
Tara Beckett (11:14):
Figure that out?
No, I don't think so. either. Ithink it's a daily for me, it's
a daily, what what's thebarometer look like today? You
know, total, and you know, youwin some you lose some. And
it's, I think it's the selfcompassion to just be like, I
did my best. Yeah. But I thinkas a mom, it's really hard to
think I did my best, right?
Kate Eckstein (11:35):
I was just gonna say, I'm really bad at that as
on the personal side. On theprofessional side, I've gotten
better at saying like, okay, youknow what, you didn't get that,
that presentation out to theclient the exact day you said
you would, you know, this isinterior design, this is not
brain surgery, clients are goingto be fine. People love you like
it's okay. It's much harder tosay that to yourself as a
(11:56):
parent.
Tara Beckett (12:03):
Circling back a little bit to the transformation
in divorce. What challenges doyou have now you were saying
stepchildren as well as your owntwo children? Can you speak to
that a bit?
Kate Eckstein (12:15):
Yeah. I mean, starting a whole new life, when
you're a fully fledged adult iscomplicated. It's like, you
know, I was married for 13years, we just sort of grew up
together. And now newrelationship, new family
members, new home, new job, it'slike learning all of this stuff
(12:36):
over again. So there's a hugelearning curve in terms of that
blending of people, and who youwant to be in that mix.
Tara Beckett (12:51):
So another thing that Kate and I have really
bonded over the past few years,is raising neurodivergent
children. And what that means asa mother, and Kate, I'm just
really floored by one time thatwe talked and you would just had
a session with your therapist,could you share that story?
(13:12):
Because I really think it bringshome, sometimes how we feel,
Kate Eckstein (13:16):
I don't remember which one. It was, I'm so glad
it was life changing.
Tara Beckett (13:22):
You were just saying about how sometimes you
can feel like you're talking toyour therapist about how
sometimes you could just feellike you're running your wheels,
right? Like you're doing allthis work to help your child and
then you the winds are so small,or they seem so small sometimes,
Kate Eckstein (13:36):
yes. And she reminded me of something really
important, which is not just tojudge where you are now, against
the rest of the world. It's morelike where you are now versus
where you would be if you hadn'tdone the work. So specifically,
she was talking about my sonwith ADHD and anxiety. And he's
11 years old. He's trying tonavigate Middle School, he's,
(14:00):
let's say not winning at thesocial stuff right now. And it's
hard to watch. It's hard towatch. And it's hard to parent
because I'm different than heis. And I can't always relate to
the way that he feels in acertain situation. And I was
kind of saying to her like, Ifeel like we're we've been
(14:21):
working so hard. And we're stillat a place where it's not. It's
not working like there's noimprovement. I don't see change.
I don't see success. And shesaid don't worry about seeing
success, you know, on a scalethat you're the scale that
you're looking for it on is toobig. Think about if you hadn't
(14:42):
spent the last 11 years caringfor him in the way that you
have. Where would he be rightnow? He'd be a mess. Like the
skills that he does have yougave those to him and the things
that he has learned. You helpedhim with that. So sort of giving
yourself a little bit more Pat'son the back to say, not only is
(15:03):
this really hard, but you'reprobably doing a better job than
you think you are.
Tara Beckett (15:06):
Yes, yes. And I just I think you can relate to
this, but just how you'resaying, you know, life for us
isn't about reaching that top ofthe mountain, right? We figure
it all out, and we just stay uphigh. But I can feel like I do
that with my son is just beinglike, Oh, look, we got all the
things in place, and you'rehaving a really good stretch.
(15:27):
And then I just think now I canjust go drink a margarita,
right? Like there's nothing leftto do here. And understanding
that even in these littlebodies, there's going to be
these ebbs and flows, there'sgoing to be these highs and
lows, like they are humans, theyare not something to be solved.
And I think I can feel like Isometimes can view him that way
(15:49):
of let me just get all thepuzzle pieces right for you.
Kate Eckstein (15:52):
Totally this and it's like, okay, can I figure
this out? Can I figure you out?
And, of course, there's noanswer to that. But of course,
every day, that's what we wakeup trying to do. Yeah, I'm
trying to, like, name thesethings and fix these things in
Google these things, when it'sjust a messy mess of a person
just like we are.
Tara Beckett (16:14):
Yeah. And I was gonna say, you know, kids are
complicated in and ofthemselves, right? They're
trying to find their identity,they're trying to navigate
social situations and learning.
And, you know, I just feel likethere's this extra layer within
neurodivergent child that, youknow, just, you know, having to
check in more often with schoolsand doctors and medication, you
(16:35):
know, all these things. Butalso, I don't know if you have
this as well, but I just feellike my heart feels a little
heavier when he's in thatstruggling place. Right?
Kate Eckstein (16:47):
Oh, 100%. Yeah.
And I find that I take on, Ihave anxiety about how he'll act
in a certain situation, which isnot even the like, you know,
what am I going to do? Or howcan I help him just like, I'm
stressed that he's who he is,and then really feels bad as a
parent.
Tara Beckett (17:11):
Yes. And watching the struggle and knowing your
job is just to support right,there's yeah, there's no fix.
There's no, it's watching it,you know, watching them
navigate? Even though it'sreally hard.
Kate Eckstein (17:29):
Yeah. And watching him make the same,
especially for him the samesocial mistakes over and over
again, like, and I can tell hima million times, like, Did you
realize that that hurt someone'sfeelings? Or do you realize that
that sentence, make someone elsefeel bad? Or, you know, whatever
it is? And honestly, sometimes Idon't think he does. And that is
(17:50):
a huge difference with aneurodivergent child, like, for
a quote unquote, normal kidparent relationship, you would
remind them, hey, that hurtsomeone's feelings. And the kid
might say, Oh, I'm sorry. Orlike, I didn't mean that, or
whatever. But for some reason,Owens brain hears those words
from me differently, and cannotfix it in a way that feels age
(18:14):
appropriate. And it stinks towatch that. And then you'll
begin to wonder, I begin towonder, Am I saying the wrong
things? Like, am I not givinghim the right cues? Am I not
giving him the rightinformation? But the fact is,
his brain works differently,period. And I can't change it no
matter how hard I try.
Tara Beckett (18:45):
I do think like hitting on, like you said, that
social pressure, and what I'mtrying to be better at as well
as even in family memberssituations, or, you know, close
friends situations where peopleare aware of some of those
things, it can feel like I'mbeing judged as a mom, right?
(19:06):
Oh,
Kate Eckstein (19:06):
100%. Yes. And I, especially in my blended family
situation right now. You know,in my previous life, we had 11
years to get used to the toughstuff about a woman and the
things that sort of just became,oh, well, that's the way he
handles the situation. And whatI realized in being in a family
(19:29):
with new people is that some ofthese things are not okay. And
some of them are not going to beokay with people who are not,
who have not been with him sincehe was born. And it's helpful.
It's so helpful for me to be in,you know, a safe space where
people do care about him, butthey're also able to say, no,
(19:51):
like, you can't act like that.
And a way like with me, youknow, right. I don't know, the
blended family I think makesthat even another level because
Is there are people who arefamily? And still they, they
know, they don't feel what Ifeel when Oh, when is in the
room? Right?
Tara Beckett (20:09):
And it's good and bad? Yes. And I, I just know
that a mother, you know, I feelas a mother, my connection with
him is so intimate that therough patches, I still have that
(20:30):
piece of me that he's my littleboy. Right. And there's like a
compassion there that I thinksometimes the outsider I know,
the outside world isn't privyto.
Kate Eckstein (20:41):
Yes, totally. I feel that. And I definitely have
had moments where it feels like,am I the only one in the world?
Who thinks there is still goodin this little person? And
sometimes I think the answer tothat is yes. Which is a lot of
weight, you know, it's a lot ofweight to carry. And it's a,
(21:01):
it's a job that sometimes I wishI didn't have to do be the only
one advocating for a, you know,someone who's not acting like
they deserve it.
Tara Beckett (21:13):
Right. Right. And, you know, Kate, it's also
friends with my husband, whichis nice, because we have that
like dual support in you. And Ijust feel like having, you know,
my husband turned towards me andshare some of the load that
(21:34):
comes from trying to supportthese little humans. That means
the world to me like that canmake the difference between a
totally terrible day and a day Ican get through, right? It's
just having somebody look up andsay, Woof, I feel Yeah, hang in
there. Right.
Kate Eckstein (21:51):
Yup. And to say some of this is on me, too,
because I'm also a parent ofthis person. And I think, I
think certainly going throughthe divorce, I lost that exact
thing. Yes. Yeah. And it's veryinteresting to be, like, fully
supported and loved by apartner, but have them not be
(22:13):
able to take on that. I don'tknow anxiety or, or compassion.
I guess it is like, they don'tneed to, and they aren't. They
can't have the same level offeeling towards your kid.
Tara Beckett (22:32):
Yep. Yep. That feels messy.
Kate Eckstein (22:37):
Yeah, it is. And it does, it just goes back to
that, like very intimate momrelationship, like, regardless
of who your partner is, you takea lot of that on. And I don't
know when that ends, you know,Owens in middle school. Now,
there are definitely a lot oftimes recently where I feel
like, oh, you know what hereally is like, going off and
(22:58):
he's growing up. And he's doingthings with friends that don't
involve me, and this is greatprogress. But I don't know when
I'll be able to let go of thatstuff. Ya know what age that is?
Tara Beckett (23:10):
I think that's never a cordapp I think my
mother Yeah, she's like, youknow, might when my baby is 40
it's still like, you're three,you know, it's just yeah, keep
worrying. I just think that weyou know, we have this forever
lifeline to them. Which is goodand also terrifying.
Kate Eckstein (23:29):
Yes.
Tara Beckett (23:45):
I picked up on you saying, you know, that sometimes
you'll share the anxiety withyour child as they're having
that anxious wave. I'm the otherend of the spectrum. I feel like
depression comes matches hiswaves. And I am just wondering
if you've figured out anythingthat can help you navigate the
(24:08):
ways the waves in a more healthyor a healthier way? Because that
is my struggle is like how do Inot let myself get carried into
it? For my own health, but alsoso that I can support this child
and I have yet figured that outyet.
Kate Eckstein (24:26):
You know, I was just gonna say wine is really my
only coping mechanism that'sdoesn't fall into the healthy
category. No, it's a reallygreat question. Because
obviously, you have to take careof yourself so that you can take
care of your kid. But a lot oftimes, it's too much. It's too
much because it's too much forthem and it's too much for us
(24:48):
and then who's left? And I don'thave a magical answer for that
except to say, I tried to talkwith Oh in about the that
feeling as much as I can, likeyou are, you may be feeling
anxious, because I'm feelinganxious. And here's what I'm
(25:09):
worried about, I'm worried aboutyou hurting relationships with
your family members, and I'mworried about you, not knowing
how to act with your friendswhen I'm not around, and I'm,
you know, I, if I can voice someof those worries to him, not
that I worry that he's nevergoing to get better, but more
like, I'm worried because I needto know from you that you're
also thinking about this,because he's old enough to like,
(25:33):
take a lead in helping himself,right. And he doesn't always
know, he doesn't really everknow how and so that those
conversations do help me feellike, okay, I can take off a
little bit of this, because Ineed to say to him, you're 11,
you're gonna need to figure outhow to do this on your own. And
that's something I didn't havewhen he was three, you know, you
(25:54):
don't have a three year old thatthey need to take this on and
figure it out. But I do thinkit's healthy for both of us, if
I begin to shift some of thatback to him to say like, you do
need to work on this, and I'mhere and I love you, and I'll
support you, but it's not myproblem to solve.
Tara Beckett (26:12):
Right. I think that's awesome. And I'm not
quite there yet. And I thinksomething that can be really
challenging both as thesechildren are young, but also
just with some of theirchallenges that they have is the
lack of insight can make growthreally hard, because, you know,
(26:32):
like we are in therapy, both ofus. And we have this ability to
kind of look forward andbackward and process. But I
think sometimes it's reallymissing for these kiddos of
having that level of insight.
Kate Eckstein (26:47):
Yes, I have got this really great workbook that
my therapist recommended for meto do with Owen. And it was a
little bit childish, but it wasan exercise of like, every night
when I had that quiet time withhim before bed, we would read a
couple of the pages, which weremostly about like skills that
kids with ADHD tend to lack.
Like the ability to wait or tobe patient or to not interrupt
(27:09):
or you know, whatever, we'd readsort of a little story about
someone who was struggling withit, then there were a couple of
questions that were like aworksheet about like, how, how
does it look when I do this? Andwhat can I do when I feel like
this. And then I would kind ofclose it out with a conversation
of like, everyone struggles withthis, right? Like you are not
alone. But it may be harder foryou than it is for other people,
(27:33):
which is why I'm trying to giveyou a little extra help
Tara Beckett (27:48):
like you said, that night time time, I just
feel like that is the mostprecious time that I have with
my child because I can feel likeI'm chasing his brain all day
long between, you know, workingwith counseling and working with
his teacher and working with adoctor and working you know, all
these things that are, you know,a very support, but you know,
(28:09):
even a workbook or just the factthat we're quiet together. I
feel like I love when it allstands still because it doesn't
stand still often.
Kate Eckstein (28:19):
Yep. Amen, sister.
Tara Beckett (28:23):
So yeah, do you remember what that workbook was
called?
Kate Eckstein (28:26):
Yes, it is a it's a dialectical therapy workbook.
And I think it was calledsomething generic, like
dialectical therapy foradolescents or for children.
And, you know, it was on Amazon,I have a whole shelf full of
books and workbooks and thingsthat I've bought throughout the
years that either have been readand just weren't that helpful or
(28:50):
haven't even been read because Ihaven't had the time. I don't
know that there's a book outthere that's gonna solve this,
you know, but I do keep feelinglike maybe someone else's words
can help get this across to himin a different way than I've
tried so far. And I don't know.
I mean, I did, like you said,chasing his brain. That's such a
good expression. Like, Idefinitely feel like I'm, I'm
chasing the, what can I do aboutthis? You know, this question.
(29:14):
I'm a very solution orientedperson. Okay, here's the
problem. Let's fix it. And thething that I have to remind
myself over and over again, isthis isn't something that can
just be fixed. This is anongoing conversation with a
person who doesn't think aboutthings the way that I do. Mm
hmm. And it's hard.
Tara Beckett (29:36):
Yes. Yes, and I yeah, I mean, I just feel like
the books is just it's it's kindof giving me a little bit of
like a shake in my belly justbecause like, I think I've read
them all, you know, yeah, it'sjust seeking, seeking like, like
you said, the key to the castle.
I think I'm turning hang myhead, or I'm trying to turn my
(30:01):
head around is like, what if Ijust looked for a support group
for kids like this? Only becauseI'm like, like you said, maybe
there's nothing to really muscleabout this. And I wonder if just
sitting with parents like youwho just know what I'm talking
about? Yeah. And I haven't foundit yet, but it just feels like
(30:22):
what if we shift gears here?
Kate Eckstein (30:24):
Right? I definitely think I'm sure they
exist. I, it that's interestingthat you say that, because that
takes me back to like, when Iwas dealing with infertility and
trouble having children, like Ijoined, you know, there were all
these online groups, and webared our souls to each other.
And we knew what day and thecycle this person was on. And
(30:44):
like, did we just walked next toeach other through that journey?
And in that way, it was easierto say, I'm not trying to fix
this, because it was like amedical problem. You know, it's
a, it's for me, somehow, thatwas much easier for me to let go
and say, This is really hard,but it's out of my control. And
like, yes, let's share withother people who are going
through this, but I didn'texpect those people to figure
(31:07):
out my problem. And I think thatcould be very useful for people
who are just walking throughthis, like there is there is no
answer. But it is nice to havesomeone there who is just like,
yeah, yeah, and you know what?
You did the best you could?
Yeah, good. Yes.
Tara Beckett (31:28):
I just want it like tattooed on my forehead.
Probably backwards, so that Ican read it here. But just to be
like, you're doing your best,you know, like your best. You
know, I think it like you said,my best can feel like absolute
shit, right? Yes, I am failingyou, child, even though I know
(31:48):
that is so not true. Like I amgiving him 100% of me. And
because I'm a human. That's notgoing to be perfect. But you
know, there's just not any moreI could give. And yet there's
just this like, really selfcritical voice that I hear a lot
in my head.
Kate Eckstein (32:06):
Yes. And yeah, I mean, like you said before,
it's, we I definitely feeljudged as a mother, which is a
very unfair thing to put onyourself, right? Like, this is a
person who has his own mind. Thefact that you act a certain way
is not actually a reflection onyou, the mother, but man, does
(32:27):
it feel like it and I can't seemto let that one go. Not Your
call is the message.
Tara Beckett (32:33):
Right? And I'm just thinking of two, I feel
like part of our job in thisstrange way, whether it's, you
know, the schools or, you know,after school activities or
friends, I always feel like I'min education mode of how to
communicate the event that'sunfolding, and how to talk to
(32:58):
him so that he can regulate. Andyou know, so I think there's
also I always feel like I'm inteaching mode. I don't know if
you have that as well.
Kate Eckstein (33:06):
Yes, definitely.
Because I feel like I'm alwaystrying to not excuse but put
context around why he is how heis or why he did what he did.
And certainly, like inelementary school, you I got the
phone call or the pink slip tosign of like, you know, they go
in hit someone or like, oh, youknow, every single thing that
(33:28):
happened, it would be like,Okay, I hear you, I see this,
tell me what happened so that Ican understand what actually
happened, because it's not goingto be the way that you told it
Tara Beckett (33:51):
I'm always like, how do I keep this book open
about you know, if he's a booklike that is my worst fear is
that if he starts shutting down,then I have no access right to
his brain. So I'm using thislike, I want to teach, you know,
the social skills and these lifeskills and also I'm like, I
gotta keep you in a place whereyou feel like you can keep
(34:13):
talking to me which maybe diesin teenager but I don't know, I
was just gonna
Kate Eckstein (34:17):
say puberty at the end of that I'm on the verge
of of the that study down and ithas nothing to do with my
parenting. It's a naturalprogression. But yeah, like we
lose that and and then have Wegiven them enough you know, to
do it themselves and we won'tknow until it happens.
Tara Beckett (34:38):
Yep, yep. And fly little bird and hope we did our
best. Yes, and you know, I alsofeel like you know, as you spoke
about just a little bit ago, butthat I don't know I have this
idea sometimes that because Ialso went through miscarriages
and infertility. And thenultimately IVF that sometimes I
(35:03):
can just feel like, wow, I wasstruggling then shouldn't I get
a pass?
Kate Eckstein (35:12):
Yes, yes, there should be some sort of exchange
that you get the perfect babyafter you've waited forever. I
don't know who those perfectbabies are. And I don't know who
they're going. Fortunately, itdoesn't work that way.
Tara Beckett (35:31):
Yes. So what we did you know, there isn't a
perfect human out there. But Ido think if I, if I could tell
some of the people who don'tknow my child is intimately. I
would love to just stay to them.
He's so creative. He's so softand loving. And he's so for you
beautiful and sweet at times.
(35:58):
And what you're seeing now isnot indicative of his whole
being right. And that's thething I wish I could just like
scream from the rooftops inthose moments where he's just
struggling. And it doesn't feellike they're really seeing him.
Kate Eckstein (36:15):
Yes, actually, that is something I've been very
explicit with Owen aboutrecently. I will say, look, I
love you, I love you, no matterwhat I love everything about
you, even when you do the wrongthing, you know, whatever. But
other people in the world do nothave to, and they're not going
to unless they see the greatperson who is inside of you. And
(36:37):
if all they see is theinappropriate jokes and the rude
comments, they're going to thinkthat's all there is. And I it is
really different now that he'solder. I do feel a bit of that,
like, I feel less responsiblefor sharing that part of him
because he is beginning to beable to share it himself.
Tara Beckett (37:00):
Good. That's awesome. Yeah. Because that's
that's all I mean, for me,that's all I want, right? It's
like, yeah, I just want you Iwould love to have people be
able to access the things I canaccess.
Kate Eckstein (37:14):
That's exactly it. That's such a great way to
put it. Like, I know whatawesomeness is inside there. But
he makes it really hard forother people to see it and
appreciate it. Okay,
Tara Beckett (37:36):
this has been fun.
To close this out. I would justlove to know, you know, what
letting perfect burn is for you.
Kate Eckstein (37:45):
Woof letting burn. This is big. Yeah, I think
letting perfect burn is for methis image of what I have left
behind, like, like we startedout talking about on the show,
like the things that I haveshed, those are the things that
I have let burn. And I have letthem burn away. I have let them
(38:07):
disappear. You know, sometimesthey still come back up, but
letting the the perfect that Ithought I needed to be go allows
me to be at peace with who I amwith what's left. You know,
like, you've let things go. Andit's just this, this feeling
(38:29):
that what's left is the rightthing.
Tara Beckett (38:32):
I love that. And I think as you're speaking I'm
like oh, I might have to do thisagain and again. Like 14
shedding Yeah. Taking stock andshedding you know
Kate Eckstein (38:47):
Yeah, I think that's it and I think that's it
is it's letting the perfectburn. Again and again and again
in a million different ways.
Tara Beckett (38:55):
Mm hmm. Oh, girl.
That's a that's a recordingsession. Right? Well, okay, it's
been so awesome to be able tospeak with you and have you
speak to so many things that Ialso carry in my heart. So thank
you, lady. It's been
Kate Eckstein (39:14):
Yes, thank you and I'm really excited about the
things that you're talking aboutand like putting out there
because it's really importantand we all need to hear it no
matter how where we are in ourlives.
Tara Beckett (39:26):
Yes girl thank you so much I'm I'm also just really
fulfilled lately of just reallyhitting on a moment in time that
I go Yeah, I want to get up inthe morning and do this. Which
then really absent for manyyears so yeah, let's let's just
keep waking up at least ready toready to give the day the best
(39:48):
you know?
Kate Eckstein (39:48):
Yes, do the best you can let that perfect burn.
Tara Beckett (39:52):
Thanks, girl. It's been I have you bye
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