September 2, 2025 • 31 mins
⚠️Content Warning: this episode of lethal venom contains discussions of bipolar disorder
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In today's episode of lethal venom, I am joined by Jason Schreurs. Jason is a writer, punk rocker, mental health advocate and host of the podcast Scream Therapy. The podcast and his forthcoming book, also called Scream Therapy, discuss punk rock as a catalyst for mental health. He shares his story with me!
To learn more about Jason, you can check him out on his website https://screamtherapyhq.com/ or his social media pages.
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Now on to our main episode. And again, you can sign up at
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today. Hello everyone, welcome to the
Lethal Venom podcast is the showwe're talking about anything I
want with the honest to God truth and the last told today
I'm joined by Jason Scherz. He is a writer, punk rocker and
mental health advocate and host of the podcast Screen Therapy.
(01:49):
And the podcast in his forthcoming book, also called
Screen Therapy, discusses punk rock as a catalyst for mental
health. He lives in Power River, BC, and
he's just going to tell us a little bit about his background
and story. So, Jason, thank you so much for
joining us. Thanks a lot for having me,
Noah. So if you could just introduce
yourself and tell me what you do?
Sure. So I'm Jason, like you
(02:10):
mentioned, I'm a writer, a punk rocker.
I'm a mental health advocate as well.
And I'm doing a podcast which started back in 2019.
And so basically I've been a writer my whole life.
I've always been involved with the punk rock music scene.
I wrote about punk rock bands for a long, long time in my
(02:31):
early 50s now. And I started doing that in my
early 20s and got away from thatmaybe a few years ago when I had
a huge mental health crisis. And that put me into a state of
not being able to do anything, basically not feeling like
anything mattered or that I wanted to do the things that I
loved. I was diagnosed with bipolar,
(02:51):
which for folks that don't know is a very up and down
depression, mania, back and forth kind of ride.
And it's, it's a horrible ride. So that really put me out.
Slowly I got back on, I think the podcast was the first thing
that I really got into after being diagnosed and then start
working on the book after that. And the book came out in 2023.
(03:13):
So what is what is it like to live with bipolar?
It's, it's very tough. I think I've gotten to a place
now where I feel relatively stable.
It's a condition that if you don't work at it in a lot of
different ways, I can stay really volatile.
It's it's can be very up and down.
(03:34):
So that could be from really like suicidal depression and all
the way up to full-fledged mania, which involves delusional
behavior and recklessness and can even lead into psychosis.
So it's, it's like one week you think something is amazing and
the best thing ever, and the next week you think it is the
worst thing ever and you want todie.
(03:54):
Like that's kind of, you know, it's, it's very all over the
place. And I think that's why, you
know, the word bipolar is kind of gotten that almost like a
like a slang of being like, I'm so all over the place.
Well, this is a very extreme version of that.
And it's a, it's a serious medical condition.
It's it's a ride. It's definitely a ride.
(04:16):
And I think for me, I'm in what I might call, I mean, this
sounds kind of weird, but it's sort of like a remission where
I've kind of gotten to the pointnow where my episodes aren't
very strong. I can make it through the day
without being severely affected by the bipolar.
But through my whole life, and especially the crisis back in
2018, it was it was not manageable at all and it was
(04:38):
very scary. What have you learned through
your mental health journey the most?
Patients, it's hard to say when things seem so dire and extreme,
but having patients acceptance is huge.
A lot of people including myselfweren't able to accept that they
(04:59):
would have to live with this condition for the rest of your
lives. So they weren't able to accept
that medication would be a lifelong necessity.
And I think it's about also the tendency is to fight against
these conditions, right? Like you have mental health
condition and you want to beat it, you want to win, you want to
get rid of it, you want to cure yourself.
(05:20):
And that's just not realistic oreven possible in a lot of cases.
So accepting that you're dealingwith this for life is for me was
a really huge turning point because once I accepted it, then
I was able to use a lot of the positive traits that come along
with these moods to really help my life.
And also to realize that when the traits were just super
(05:43):
negative and, and detrimental tomy, my existence, my day-to-day
life and really made it super hard to live that those things
would pass. You know, that it wouldn't be
forever. And so accepting that and also
like not being pulled by the, bythe, the condition, like it's
not in charge of me. I'm in charge of it.
(06:05):
You talk about how punk rock hasreally helped you through a lot
of stuff. What?
What do you love most about punkrock?
Oh, it's just the energy of it. It's, it's the excitement of
being in a room with a bunch of people and screaming your lungs
out and, you know, having your favorite bands and loving to
read their lyrics and they've got messages to them.
(06:26):
They're not just like, you know,it's not music that's mindless
or aren't the it's got a lot of a lot of substance to it.
So I think it's a combination ofjust that release of energy, but
also knowing that it's for a purpose.
You know, like you're, you're, you're, you know, you get into
the mosh pit. I don't do that as much anymore
because I'm getting older, but you get in the mosh pit.
It's not just about banging intoeach other and, and it's not any
(06:49):
kind of a violent thing, even though it may appear to be so
from someone on the outside. It's very much about community
and picking each other up and having a ton of fun.
As far as the music itself goes,it to me it's just always been.
I also live with ADHD, so to me the music has always just been a
way of calming my brain, you know?
Some people listen to a classical music to calm down.
(07:10):
For me it has to be super noisy,loud screamy music to really get
me in a place where I feel relaxed.
So what is screen therapy? Well, this is a difficult one
because a lot of people thought that they wrote the book was
about, you know, the, the modality of stream therapy, that
it was some sort of a medical or, or clinical form of therapy.
(07:34):
And really what I was using it for.
And it was coming up in my writing all through the years
before I really knew what it meant was that, you know, this
is a situation where, you know, you have to get out your, your
emotions and your angst and your, you know, what's bothering
you somehow. So screaming is a way to do it.
And you're not screaming into anempty room or, you know,
(07:54):
screaming into a pillow. You're screaming with other
people. So that creates that community.
So for me, scream therapy is allabout just like essentially,
it's about love, It's about being with people.
It's about, you know, like beingunapologetic about screaming.
And when I use the word screaming, that could be, you
know, a metaphor for living in the, in the world in a way that
(08:16):
someone wants to authentically. Yeah.
So for me, screen therapy is just that like, it's almost like
a rallying cry rather than, you know, like, let's sit you down
and we're going to do screen therapy and you're going to
scream this long and it's going to help you do this.
It's, it's, it's not the kind ofthing you'd find in a, in a room
with a, with a clinician. It's it's it's way more than
(08:36):
that. So where do you do screen
therapy exactly? Is it like you would meet with a
bunch of people at a like a particular place or is it
outside? No, well, no.
You'd go to punk shows, you'd, you'd be right there in the
front row of the punk show and screaming along with the bands.
A lot of the punk, a lot of punkbands, I'm sure a lot of your
listeners know about punk rock is a a lot of screaming and
(08:58):
noise and chaos and in a you know, in a way that makes sense
to people that know what it is. So yeah, you're right there at
the show. You're screaming with the bands.
You're you're, you know, you're maybe you're at home and you're
listening and you're singing along.
It's it's there's no, it's not formal.
It's not like a you know, a lot of so-called therapies will be
(09:18):
like you're in a circle with people and you're doing group
therapy. No, this is not therapy in the
sense of, you know, I like medical therapy or clinical
therapy. It's it's a form of therapy that
could be playing tennis or it could be, you know, going to,
you know, retreat or whatever. But this is like it's all about
the music and all about the the sweaty kind of dark, you know,
(09:40):
like therapeutic or like kind oflike transformative moments of,
of loudness, I guess. I can just imagine me going to
like do some kind of screen therapy because I could just see
myself screaming. But then I also have to think
part of my job is talking. And so that way that would be
really bad if I went to that would be awful for my voice
(10:04):
because then they're like, if I didn't know about 30, I'll be
like, I'll be like, my voice will be gone.
Yeah, we had our jam yesterday for our band.
We're playing a show on Thursdayand we hadn't jammed for a
couple weeks. And so my voice will get raspy.
But what I've learned over the years is like if you scream from
your gut in your chest instead of from your throat, you won't
lose your voice as much. I used to scream from my throat
(10:27):
and I had no voice. Like I'd play 1 show on a tour
and then the next night my voiceto be shot.
So I've learned how to control that more.
But I was going to say, like thedifference between you said, you
know, you like to try that or whatever.
The difference between being in your house with nobody around
and just screaming your head offversus being at a show with a
(10:47):
bunch of people and screaming lyrics and messages and
revolutionary statements. Like that's such a different
thing. And I think that's what people
kind of mistaken sometimes. It's like you're just screaming
for nothing. You're just like letting it all
out and you are. But you're doing in a way that
actually has some meaning, and Ithink that makes all the
difference. I would say probably from if I
(11:10):
went back home and I was home bymyself, I could do it here.
I'd have a Wellness check be puton me because I live in an
apartment complex. I'd be, I'd be having officers
in my door. But are you OK?
But the the furthest I've gone because I don't know how much I
am about losing my voice becausemy my roommates took me out to
(11:30):
the bar for the first time, I think a year or two ago.
And they played music so loud there and where you had to
scream. I thought, I'm not losing my
voice over this. I said this was before our
podcast. I thought, I'm not losing my
voice over this. I said now the whole time I was
there, I did not talk. I was just in the corner just
not saying anything because I thought this is not worth it.
(11:55):
So what does screaming feel liketo you?
It's, it's interesting because as soon as I start screaming in
a band and again, I wouldn't just go down in the forest and
start screaming. That's just not what does it for
me. But as soon as I start screaming
in a band or even screaming along with other bands playing,
it kind of puts me into this zone of, of I feel like things
(12:16):
are coming out and I'm expressing myself, but I'm doing
it in a way that's so extreme. And, and so I want to say tough,
but it's not. That's the wrong word.
So strong that I almost kind of go into a bit of a zone and I
can kind of control my voice in ways that maybe I wouldn't be
able to if I was just singing. And I, and I Can't Sing.
(12:37):
Let's put that out there. I'm not a very good singer at
all. So it, it just feels like a, it
feels kind of like, it feels like I'm alive when I do it, You
know, it feels like I'm coming to life or I'm, I'm kind of
coming into my own, I guess. And it's about confidence.
I mean, I'm fairly confident person like regardless, but like
(12:58):
getting up there and, and reallylike, you know, screaming,
especially in front of people can provide you with a sense of
empowerment. I guess it's a better word than
confidence. It's, it's feeling like you have
something that you can offer to people and that they're
hopefully going to get somethingout of it.
So yeah, it's, it's a whole likerange of emotions, but mostly it
(13:19):
just feels good. It just feels like power, I
guess, and not the kind of powerthat I'm looking down on people,
but just like I feel powerful. So what has changed in your life
since your diagnosis? Yeah, a lot of things.
I mean, stability is a huge thing for folks at bipolar,
right? So the I the the goal is to be
(13:41):
stable. So that means that you're you're
not an extreme back and forth moods.
You're kind of like rippling like what you would say quote UN
quote, normal person would be soon, you know, on this on bad
days, if you look kind of shittyand then on, you know, on good
days, you feel excited and sometimes if you're something
bad happens, you're feeling sad.But like they're not extreme
versions of those those emotions.
(14:02):
So I think that's what's happened is I'm a lot more even
keeled. I mean, I think people would say
that I listen better. I do a lot of support group
work. So I do facilitating for support
groups and you really have to listen in those groups.
I think that I'm more patient. I think you haven't been having
my system been sort of settled over the years after being
(14:23):
diagnosed and medication is a huge part of that.
I just feel more relaxed and I feel more.
Anxiety is also a huge part of bipolar, so I feel a lot less
anxious sometimes. Yeah.
I think I just mostly I just know like I'm in control of my
life. I'm.
I think I was well, I know I wasout of control before and I was
(14:44):
doing reckless stuff. I was I was doing things in my
life that were like really hurting people, hurting myself.
A lot of people talk about that bipolar talk about then, you
know, burning down their lives, which you know that phrase and
it's true, you know, like peoplespend all their money, people
end up being, you know, in trouble with the law, like all
these things. So to be able to get away from
(15:06):
all that recklessness and and dangerous is, is huge.
It settles the mind. I feel just a lot more, yeah,
calm and and maybe even more confident.
Why is community important for mental health?
Well, I think a lot of people tend to isolate when they're
having a hard time. You know, one of the things that
(15:28):
you always hear is in a lot of the mental health campaigns and
stuff is like reach out to somebody.
Reach out to somebody. I think that that's the biggest
key. I think also there's some
trouble with that because the onus is on other people.
The onus is on me to reach out when I'm feeling horrible.
But that puts the that puts the kind of pressure on me to do
(15:50):
that. And I think what we need to do
is, you know, people that are looking like they're having a
hard time, right? They've told you having a hard
time, that you would reach out to them.
They wouldn't, you wouldn't expect them to reach out to you.
So yeah, that's probably the biggest thing.
I also feel like, you know, if, well, it's obvious, if you don't
have anybody, you're going to besuper lonely.
(16:12):
There's no one to reach out to. But I also think the community
like finding your finding your people that like common things,
no matter what that is. And in my case, it was punk
rock. Without those people, I could be
really lost. So I felt really welcome in that
scene when I first found it. I felt really, I felt like I had
a place and I felt like there ispurpose.
(16:33):
And of course, you know, a lot of people with like severe
mental health conditions, like they don't, they can't find that
there's a lot of existentialism.Like who am I?
What am I supposed to do here? Why no one cares about me?
I'm, you know, it just goes and goes and goes.
So without people to kind of bounce yourself off of in a mosh
pit, you literally bounce yourself off people.
(16:55):
But without that it's it's really, really tough to to cope.
You know, Apple community to be very important as well.
A lot of people when they tend to get depressed.
I've done it too. And I'm pretty sure if you've
dealt with any depression in it,even if you don't, there's been
a point where you just want to just disassociate with anyone.
(17:20):
You want to be put into your ownbubble.
And I mean, there's times when that's permittable.
I mean, I think we all need sometime to ourselves and focus on
ourselves. But if you deal with any kind of
mental health struggle, staying in that bubble by yourself long
can lead to consequences. It can lead to bad thoughts, bad
(17:46):
actions. So, you know, I've always said
it, it's not, it's not the end of the world if you go and reach
out to somebody. That's the whole point of what a
community is for. It took me a while to open up to
people about my mental health struggles and took a long time
for me to finally open up and belike, yeah, I have depression,
(18:09):
anxiety. I had to deal with this on the
daily. And you know that I still have
times where I'm like, I don't want anyone talk to me because
it's always what you said at thecampaigns reach out.
And I in the end do tend to reach out.
But at first I do the whole no one talk to me.
I need time to myself. And then after I've had time to
(18:30):
myself, then I start slowly opening up to people.
Yeah, well, I've never or very rarely regretted going out to an
event or to a party or whatever.I've often regretted not going.
Not going can cause it isolates myself more, it makes me more
(18:51):
lonely. So I think like going out and
doing things is great, whether that's just going for a walk
with a friend or whatever it is.But taking that action is, is
huge and you come away feeling alot better.
So yeah, I think, I think maybe you're not even reaching out is
really good, of course. But like taking some sort of
like for momentum, go for a walk, go to a, go to a band, go
(19:13):
do something. That's a good way to sort of jog
your system or yourself out of adepression.
Yeah, I always, I always mentionit to people.
You know, it doesn't really matter what you do.
Just try to find something that will get your mind off what
you're thinking about. There have been many of times
where just something simple as drawing or painting or watching
(19:36):
TV, listening to music or something like that always
helps. I mean, walking's been is always
beneficial. Just try to drive for a little
bit and really anything that youcan think of, I know it might
not help, but, and everyone's different, you know, going out
(19:56):
for a walk and doing all this stuff might not help.
There might be other things and that's totally OK.
You just have to kind of find that path of what works best for
you. And it's the whole thing of it
might take a. Some time to figure out what
exactly makes you be in a safe place and a good place but it's.
(20:18):
I would not give up on it. There have been times where I've
wanted to give up because nothing I was trying to helps.
But it's always the thing of youdon't really want to ever give
up because if you give up, that means that you're inner demons
win and whatever is trying to get you down, that's going to
win. And the whole thing is you want
to overcome that, fight it and beat them.
(20:38):
Beat those thoughts and be on top of everything.
So in relation to this whole journey, what's probably been
the biggest lesson you've learned?
Well, I think one big one is, and it relates to reaching out
for help. But I think that when I'm doing
my projects, like I'm doing a big metal and punk festival here
(20:59):
in town in August and I do a lotof different, you know, like
putting on shows and bands and, you know, all these sort of fun
projects. I think in the past, because I
was, my moods were all over the place, that I felt like I had to
do it all my own and had to be the one responsible all the
time. And I think that I'm a pretty
(21:21):
good leader, but I think I wouldn't delegate anything.
So it would be like just like I got to do this, I got to do
that. And I think people learn to like
rely on other people. I've applied what I've learned
in the punk scene to my outside life.
So I've gotten away from the kind of stuff that I don't
really belong to. For instance, I was working a
job that was probably about 50 to 60 hours a week, high
(21:44):
pressure, high stress corporate job for a corporate company that
I did not like that I thought I could do that.
I thought I could make my own, Icould turn it into a job that
was had some punk ethics and punk morals and I just couldn't.
So I don't even try anymore. Like I'll probably never have a
full time job ever again becauseit just doesn't like go along
(22:08):
with my my life, you know, it doesn't make sense to me.
I want to do this thing and thisthing and this thing.
So, and a lot of these things are volunteer work.
Like I'm doing all kinds of volunteer work.
I'm doing putting on these shows.
I don't make any money off of it.
It's just something that I care about.
So like to have a really demanding lifestyle based on,
you know, currency and capitalism and all these things
(22:29):
that we're told to do and we gotto be moving and doing things
all the time just doesn't work for me anymore.
I'm busy, but I'm busy on my ownterms.
Who have been some of your biggest inspirations during this
whole journey? Well, I always say Ian Mackay,
he's this this musician and runsa record label in Washington, DC
called Discord Records. And he's in a band called
(22:51):
Fugazi. He was a band called Minor
Threat, which is back in the 80s.
And he a lot of things that I like.
Even when I was saying the thingabout, you know, like just doing
what's in front of me and you'renot feeling pressured to have to
work in a corporate environment that that's totally, it almost
feels like I'm modeling myself after him, which is great.
(23:14):
He's he's a very like influential and and his morals
are just like spot on for kind of what I believe in.
But I think also like a lot of my friends have inspired me.
A lot of the people that have gone through these mental health
challenges and come out the other end, you know, with
stability are really inspiring. A lot of the people in my
(23:35):
support group, you know, really inspire me.
Even if they're having the hardest time in the world,
they're right down in the dumps and, you know, they're ready to
run away and never come back. They still really inspire me
because I'll see them the next week and they're doing better
now. I'll see them the next week, and
they're doing, you know, worse again and better again.
And that's the nature of bipolar.
It's you're not going to ever be, you know, completely stable.
(23:59):
So yeah, those people really inspire me.
You know, my partner inspires me.
She does all kinds of cool stuff.
My kids inspire me and a lot of the musicians in the bands to be
able to write music like that and to be able to write such
great lyrics. And you know, people think punk
rock is just all like super easymusic, but it's actually quite
(24:19):
can be quite intricate and that's pretty cool.
To kind of end, what advice do you have for people that might
be dealing with bipolar or have similar mental health struggles
and they feel like they don't? What advice do you have for them
to maybe get them through tough times?
(24:40):
Well, I think when I was first diagnosed, I probably would have
just said it was advice to myself as well.
I would have said just ride it out, you know, take it day by
day, minute by minute. The moods are will pass.
You know, they're, they're not, you're not going to be down and
up like this forever. You're not going to be like out
of control high. It's going to come down again.
You're not going to be super, super low suicidal.
(25:01):
You're going to come back up again.
So that's the advice I'm able togive myself at that point.
Now that I'm more stable, I think I know what's coming.
I can feel the like I, I always talk about symptoms based,
right. So I would explain to people
like, you know, yes, this is a mental health condition.
It's, it's involving a lot of stuff that's, you know, in your
(25:23):
system, in your mind, but it's also very symptoms based, like a
lot of medical conditions. So, you know, like with
depression, I'll get really soreand, and tired and fatigued and
all sort to have headaches and, and sometimes I'll feel like
actually like I've got the flu or cold.
And then in mania I start to feel really like overexcited and
(25:44):
sometimes I'll have start to have like kind of delusional
thoughts and sometimes I'll feellike kind of tingly.
So these are all symptoms of this.
So when I start to feel those symptoms, I'm kind of ahead of
the game, right? Like I'm, I'm not letting myself
get dragged down into feeling horrible because I've, I've
already like clocked those different symptoms.
(26:05):
So I talked about it being sort of like a ladder, like the
ladder of symptoms would be like, you know, like you're kind
of stable. Then all of a sudden you start
to have, you know, like you're getting a bit like tired and
then all of a sudden you're starting to have some negative
thoughts. And then you're, you know, like
running down the ladder and thenyou're down in the suicidal
ideation stuff. And you know, I'm getting down
to close to the bottom and the same thing with the ladder to
(26:27):
the top, you know, the, the, themanic symptoms.
So it's about, I guess it's about like really like pulling
it apart and analyzing it a bit more.
I think when I was in it, in it,it's just that you can't really
do much. You're just like, I want to, I
got to get through this day. You know, that's all you can
really think about once things start to get a bit more settled
(26:48):
and they talk about, you know, bipolar really once you're
diagnosed, it takes a good up to10 years just to kind of get
into what we call remission, right?
So yeah, just just like write itout until you know what those
symptoms are and then pay attention to your to your
symptoms and make sure you can clock them.
And mood charts, like I would say always use a mood chart,
(27:09):
which is just this piece of paper or on your phone or
whatever that you just mark eachday where you are on the chart.
So let's say you have a, you know, 0 is stable and -10 is the
most depressed and plus 10 is the most manic.
You kind of just clock it on there and sort of see what the
patterns are. Those patterns in my case were
very, very constant. Like I would, I could lay out my
(27:31):
six years of charts and see thatthe pattern is there.
It just got from being really upand down like a roller coaster
to being like a smaller roller coaster, but still the same
patterns, which is amazing, right?
It's like that's my body regulating itself over the
years. I've always found the best
advice I give is riding helps. I've always found that, you
(27:55):
know, if you're are having a hard time, writing really does
make a difference and it can just be a sentence, it could be
a tagline that you could write, it could be a A20 page essay
about stuff that's going on. It really doesn't matter and
it's something that you necessarily don't have to share.
(28:15):
It's something that completely could be kept for yourself, but
if you want to share it with other people to help them get
through it, I think that's fine.It's just more of a, it's up to
you. But I always say right
regardless, because you get a lot of honest opinions and some
of your honest, honest thoughts out on paper.
(28:38):
And it really does help you in the long term, in the long run,
and makes you be in such better spirits and helps you get a lot
of anger out. Yeah, like in my in my case with
writing the book, I I felt like I had to get my story out to to
that point. You once I got my story out to
that point, then I could kind ofcarry on from there.
(28:59):
So it almost felt like a survival technique to to write
that book and kind of be done with that chapter and then move
through that, you know, and kindof start life again, I guess
would be the way to say it. For people that want to learn
more about your story and learn more about you, where can they
find you at? I have a website
(29:21):
calledscreentherapyhq.com. So it's Screen Therapy HQ as in
headquarters.com and that's where the podcast is.
You can order the book there. There's some more information
there as well. I don't do a lot of social
media, especially for the screentherapy stuff.
The podcast can be found in all the podcast apps, so you can get
(29:41):
it wherever you listen to a podcast as well as from the
website. So yeah, it's it's I'm out
there, but I'm not like you got to find me, let's put it that
way. And an easy way for you to find
him would be like in my description box, I'll always
put, as I say with all my guests, put off his links in the
description box below so that off his links and social media
(30:06):
accounts will be all in one place for you to find easy
access to. As you said, he's the host of
the Screen Therapy, which is a podcast that he is the host of.
It's available on wherever you get your podcast from.
I just wanted to say quickly, thank you, Jason, for sharing
your story with me and sharing some advice with my listeners.
And keep doing what you're doing.
Stay strong. Thanks a lot, Noah.
(30:28):
Thanks for having me. As always, if you would like to
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(30:51):
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Thank you all so much for listening to today's episode.
You have a great rest of your day and week, and I'll catch you
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Now on to our main episode. And again, you can sign up at
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today. Hello everyone, welcome to the
Lethal Venom podcast is the showwe're talking about anything I
want with the honest to God truth and the last told today
I'm joined by Jason Scherz. He is a writer, punk rocker and
mental health advocate and host of the podcast Screen Therapy.
(01:49):
And the podcast in his forthcoming book, also called
Screen Therapy, discusses punk rock as a catalyst for mental
health. He lives in Power River, BC, and
he's just going to tell us a little bit about his background
and story. So, Jason, thank you so much for
joining us. Thanks a lot for having me,
Noah. So if you could just introduce
yourself and tell me what you do?
Sure. So I'm Jason, like you
(02:10):
mentioned, I'm a writer, a punk rocker.
I'm a mental health advocate as well.
And I'm doing a podcast which started back in 2019.
And so basically I've been a writer my whole life.
I've always been involved with the punk rock music scene.
I wrote about punk rock bands for a long, long time in my
(02:31):
early 50s now. And I started doing that in my
early 20s and got away from thatmaybe a few years ago when I had
a huge mental health crisis. And that put me into a state of
not being able to do anything, basically not feeling like
anything mattered or that I wanted to do the things that I
loved. I was diagnosed with bipolar,
(02:51):
which for folks that don't know is a very up and down
depression, mania, back and forth kind of ride.
And it's, it's a horrible ride. So that really put me out.
Slowly I got back on, I think the podcast was the first thing
that I really got into after being diagnosed and then start
working on the book after that. And the book came out in 2023.
(03:13):
So what is what is it like to live with bipolar?
It's, it's very tough. I think I've gotten to a place
now where I feel relatively stable.
It's a condition that if you don't work at it in a lot of
different ways, I can stay really volatile.
It's it's can be very up and down.
(03:34):
So that could be from really like suicidal depression and all
the way up to full-fledged mania, which involves delusional
behavior and recklessness and can even lead into psychosis.
So it's, it's like one week you think something is amazing and
the best thing ever, and the next week you think it is the
worst thing ever and you want todie.
(03:54):
Like that's kind of, you know, it's, it's very all over the
place. And I think that's why, you
know, the word bipolar is kind of gotten that almost like a
like a slang of being like, I'm so all over the place.
Well, this is a very extreme version of that.
And it's a, it's a serious medical condition.
It's it's a ride. It's definitely a ride.
(04:16):
And I think for me, I'm in what I might call, I mean, this
sounds kind of weird, but it's sort of like a remission where
I've kind of gotten to the pointnow where my episodes aren't
very strong. I can make it through the day
without being severely affected by the bipolar.
But through my whole life, and especially the crisis back in
2018, it was it was not manageable at all and it was
(04:38):
very scary. What have you learned through
your mental health journey the most?
Patients, it's hard to say when things seem so dire and extreme,
but having patients acceptance is huge.
A lot of people including myselfweren't able to accept that they
(04:59):
would have to live with this condition for the rest of your
lives. So they weren't able to accept
that medication would be a lifelong necessity.
And I think it's about also the tendency is to fight against
these conditions, right? Like you have mental health
condition and you want to beat it, you want to win, you want to
get rid of it, you want to cure yourself.
(05:20):
And that's just not realistic oreven possible in a lot of cases.
So accepting that you're dealingwith this for life is for me was
a really huge turning point because once I accepted it, then
I was able to use a lot of the positive traits that come along
with these moods to really help my life.
And also to realize that when the traits were just super
(05:43):
negative and, and detrimental tomy, my existence, my day-to-day
life and really made it super hard to live that those things
would pass. You know, that it wouldn't be
forever. And so accepting that and also
like not being pulled by the, bythe, the condition, like it's
not in charge of me. I'm in charge of it.
(06:05):
You talk about how punk rock hasreally helped you through a lot
of stuff. What?
What do you love most about punkrock?
Oh, it's just the energy of it. It's, it's the excitement of
being in a room with a bunch of people and screaming your lungs
out and, you know, having your favorite bands and loving to
read their lyrics and they've got messages to them.
(06:26):
They're not just like, you know,it's not music that's mindless
or aren't the it's got a lot of a lot of substance to it.
So I think it's a combination ofjust that release of energy, but
also knowing that it's for a purpose.
You know, like you're, you're, you're, you know, you get into
the mosh pit. I don't do that as much anymore
because I'm getting older, but you get in the mosh pit.
It's not just about banging intoeach other and, and it's not any
(06:49):
kind of a violent thing, even though it may appear to be so
from someone on the outside. It's very much about community
and picking each other up and having a ton of fun.
As far as the music itself goes,it to me it's just always been.
I also live with ADHD, so to me the music has always just been a
way of calming my brain, you know?
Some people listen to a classical music to calm down.
(07:10):
For me it has to be super noisy,loud screamy music to really get
me in a place where I feel relaxed.
So what is screen therapy? Well, this is a difficult one
because a lot of people thought that they wrote the book was
about, you know, the, the modality of stream therapy, that
it was some sort of a medical or, or clinical form of therapy.
(07:34):
And really what I was using it for.
And it was coming up in my writing all through the years
before I really knew what it meant was that, you know, this
is a situation where, you know, you have to get out your, your
emotions and your angst and your, you know, what's bothering
you somehow. So screaming is a way to do it.
And you're not screaming into anempty room or, you know,
(07:54):
screaming into a pillow. You're screaming with other
people. So that creates that community.
So for me, scream therapy is allabout just like essentially,
it's about love, It's about being with people.
It's about, you know, like beingunapologetic about screaming.
And when I use the word screaming, that could be, you
know, a metaphor for living in the, in the world in a way that
(08:16):
someone wants to authentically. Yeah.
So for me, screen therapy is just that like, it's almost like
a rallying cry rather than, you know, like, let's sit you down
and we're going to do screen therapy and you're going to
scream this long and it's going to help you do this.
It's, it's, it's not the kind ofthing you'd find in a, in a room
with a, with a clinician. It's it's it's way more than
(08:36):
that. So where do you do screen
therapy exactly? Is it like you would meet with a
bunch of people at a like a particular place or is it
outside? No, well, no.
You'd go to punk shows, you'd, you'd be right there in the
front row of the punk show and screaming along with the bands.
A lot of the punk, a lot of punkbands, I'm sure a lot of your
listeners know about punk rock is a a lot of screaming and
(08:58):
noise and chaos and in a you know, in a way that makes sense
to people that know what it is. So yeah, you're right there at
the show. You're screaming with the bands.
You're you're, you know, you're maybe you're at home and you're
listening and you're singing along.
It's it's there's no, it's not formal.
It's not like a you know, a lot of so-called therapies will be
(09:18):
like you're in a circle with people and you're doing group
therapy. No, this is not therapy in the
sense of, you know, I like medical therapy or clinical
therapy. It's it's a form of therapy that
could be playing tennis or it could be, you know, going to,
you know, retreat or whatever. But this is like it's all about
the music and all about the the sweaty kind of dark, you know,
(09:40):
like therapeutic or like kind oflike transformative moments of,
of loudness, I guess. I can just imagine me going to
like do some kind of screen therapy because I could just see
myself screaming. But then I also have to think
part of my job is talking. And so that way that would be
really bad if I went to that would be awful for my voice
(10:04):
because then they're like, if I didn't know about 30, I'll be
like, I'll be like, my voice will be gone.
Yeah, we had our jam yesterday for our band.
We're playing a show on Thursdayand we hadn't jammed for a
couple weeks. And so my voice will get raspy.
But what I've learned over the years is like if you scream from
your gut in your chest instead of from your throat, you won't
lose your voice as much. I used to scream from my throat
(10:27):
and I had no voice. Like I'd play 1 show on a tour
and then the next night my voiceto be shot.
So I've learned how to control that more.
But I was going to say, like thedifference between you said, you
know, you like to try that or whatever.
The difference between being in your house with nobody around
and just screaming your head offversus being at a show with a
(10:47):
bunch of people and screaming lyrics and messages and
revolutionary statements. Like that's such a different
thing. And I think that's what people
kind of mistaken sometimes. It's like you're just screaming
for nothing. You're just like letting it all
out and you are. But you're doing in a way that
actually has some meaning, and Ithink that makes all the
difference. I would say probably from if I
(11:10):
went back home and I was home bymyself, I could do it here.
I'd have a Wellness check be puton me because I live in an
apartment complex. I'd be, I'd be having officers
in my door. But are you OK?
But the the furthest I've gone because I don't know how much I
am about losing my voice becausemy my roommates took me out to
(11:30):
the bar for the first time, I think a year or two ago.
And they played music so loud there and where you had to
scream. I thought, I'm not losing my
voice over this. I said this was before our
podcast. I thought, I'm not losing my
voice over this. I said now the whole time I was
there, I did not talk. I was just in the corner just
not saying anything because I thought this is not worth it.
(11:55):
So what does screaming feel liketo you?
It's, it's interesting because as soon as I start screaming in
a band and again, I wouldn't just go down in the forest and
start screaming. That's just not what does it for
me. But as soon as I start screaming
in a band or even screaming along with other bands playing,
it kind of puts me into this zone of, of I feel like things
(12:16):
are coming out and I'm expressing myself, but I'm doing
it in a way that's so extreme. And, and so I want to say tough,
but it's not. That's the wrong word.
So strong that I almost kind of go into a bit of a zone and I
can kind of control my voice in ways that maybe I wouldn't be
able to if I was just singing. And I, and I Can't Sing.
(12:37):
Let's put that out there. I'm not a very good singer at
all. So it, it just feels like a, it
feels kind of like, it feels like I'm alive when I do it, You
know, it feels like I'm coming to life or I'm, I'm kind of
coming into my own, I guess. And it's about confidence.
I mean, I'm fairly confident person like regardless, but like
(12:58):
getting up there and, and reallylike, you know, screaming,
especially in front of people can provide you with a sense of
empowerment. I guess it's a better word than
confidence. It's, it's feeling like you have
something that you can offer to people and that they're
hopefully going to get somethingout of it.
So yeah, it's, it's a whole likerange of emotions, but mostly it
(13:19):
just feels good. It just feels like power, I
guess, and not the kind of powerthat I'm looking down on people,
but just like I feel powerful. So what has changed in your life
since your diagnosis? Yeah, a lot of things.
I mean, stability is a huge thing for folks at bipolar,
right? So the I the the goal is to be
(13:41):
stable. So that means that you're you're
not an extreme back and forth moods.
You're kind of like rippling like what you would say quote UN
quote, normal person would be soon, you know, on this on bad
days, if you look kind of shittyand then on, you know, on good
days, you feel excited and sometimes if you're something
bad happens, you're feeling sad.But like they're not extreme
versions of those those emotions.
(14:02):
So I think that's what's happened is I'm a lot more even
keeled. I mean, I think people would say
that I listen better. I do a lot of support group
work. So I do facilitating for support
groups and you really have to listen in those groups.
I think that I'm more patient. I think you haven't been having
my system been sort of settled over the years after being
(14:23):
diagnosed and medication is a huge part of that.
I just feel more relaxed and I feel more.
Anxiety is also a huge part of bipolar, so I feel a lot less
anxious sometimes. Yeah.
I think I just mostly I just know like I'm in control of my
life. I'm.
I think I was well, I know I wasout of control before and I was
(14:44):
doing reckless stuff. I was I was doing things in my
life that were like really hurting people, hurting myself.
A lot of people talk about that bipolar talk about then, you
know, burning down their lives, which you know that phrase and
it's true, you know, like peoplespend all their money, people
end up being, you know, in trouble with the law, like all
these things. So to be able to get away from
(15:06):
all that recklessness and and dangerous is, is huge.
It settles the mind. I feel just a lot more, yeah,
calm and and maybe even more confident.
Why is community important for mental health?
Well, I think a lot of people tend to isolate when they're
having a hard time. You know, one of the things that
(15:28):
you always hear is in a lot of the mental health campaigns and
stuff is like reach out to somebody.
Reach out to somebody. I think that that's the biggest
key. I think also there's some
trouble with that because the onus is on other people.
The onus is on me to reach out when I'm feeling horrible.
But that puts the that puts the kind of pressure on me to do
(15:50):
that. And I think what we need to do
is, you know, people that are looking like they're having a
hard time, right? They've told you having a hard
time, that you would reach out to them.
They wouldn't, you wouldn't expect them to reach out to you.
So yeah, that's probably the biggest thing.
I also feel like, you know, if, well, it's obvious, if you don't
have anybody, you're going to besuper lonely.
(16:12):
There's no one to reach out to. But I also think the community
like finding your finding your people that like common things,
no matter what that is. And in my case, it was punk
rock. Without those people, I could be
really lost. So I felt really welcome in that
scene when I first found it. I felt really, I felt like I had
a place and I felt like there ispurpose.
(16:33):
And of course, you know, a lot of people with like severe
mental health conditions, like they don't, they can't find that
there's a lot of existentialism.Like who am I?
What am I supposed to do here? Why no one cares about me?
I'm, you know, it just goes and goes and goes.
So without people to kind of bounce yourself off of in a mosh
pit, you literally bounce yourself off people.
(16:55):
But without that it's it's really, really tough to to cope.
You know, Apple community to be very important as well.
A lot of people when they tend to get depressed.
I've done it too. And I'm pretty sure if you've
dealt with any depression in it,even if you don't, there's been
a point where you just want to just disassociate with anyone.
(17:20):
You want to be put into your ownbubble.
And I mean, there's times when that's permittable.
I mean, I think we all need sometime to ourselves and focus on
ourselves. But if you deal with any kind of
mental health struggle, staying in that bubble by yourself long
can lead to consequences. It can lead to bad thoughts, bad
(17:46):
actions. So, you know, I've always said
it, it's not, it's not the end of the world if you go and reach
out to somebody. That's the whole point of what a
community is for. It took me a while to open up to
people about my mental health struggles and took a long time
for me to finally open up and belike, yeah, I have depression,
(18:09):
anxiety. I had to deal with this on the
daily. And you know that I still have
times where I'm like, I don't want anyone talk to me because
it's always what you said at thecampaigns reach out.
And I in the end do tend to reach out.
But at first I do the whole no one talk to me.
I need time to myself. And then after I've had time to
(18:30):
myself, then I start slowly opening up to people.
Yeah, well, I've never or very rarely regretted going out to an
event or to a party or whatever.I've often regretted not going.
Not going can cause it isolates myself more, it makes me more
(18:51):
lonely. So I think like going out and
doing things is great, whether that's just going for a walk
with a friend or whatever it is.But taking that action is, is
huge and you come away feeling alot better.
So yeah, I think, I think maybe you're not even reaching out is
really good, of course. But like taking some sort of
like for momentum, go for a walk, go to a, go to a band, go
(19:13):
do something. That's a good way to sort of jog
your system or yourself out of adepression.
Yeah, I always, I always mentionit to people.
You know, it doesn't really matter what you do.
Just try to find something that will get your mind off what
you're thinking about. There have been many of times
where just something simple as drawing or painting or watching
(19:36):
TV, listening to music or something like that always
helps. I mean, walking's been is always
beneficial. Just try to drive for a little
bit and really anything that youcan think of, I know it might
not help, but, and everyone's different, you know, going out
(19:56):
for a walk and doing all this stuff might not help.
There might be other things and that's totally OK.
You just have to kind of find that path of what works best for
you. And it's the whole thing of it
might take a. Some time to figure out what
exactly makes you be in a safe place and a good place but it's.
(20:18):
I would not give up on it. There have been times where I've
wanted to give up because nothing I was trying to helps.
But it's always the thing of youdon't really want to ever give
up because if you give up, that means that you're inner demons
win and whatever is trying to get you down, that's going to
win. And the whole thing is you want
to overcome that, fight it and beat them.
(20:38):
Beat those thoughts and be on top of everything.
So in relation to this whole journey, what's probably been
the biggest lesson you've learned?
Well, I think one big one is, and it relates to reaching out
for help. But I think that when I'm doing
my projects, like I'm doing a big metal and punk festival here
(20:59):
in town in August and I do a lotof different, you know, like
putting on shows and bands and, you know, all these sort of fun
projects. I think in the past, because I
was, my moods were all over the place, that I felt like I had to
do it all my own and had to be the one responsible all the
time. And I think that I'm a pretty
(21:21):
good leader, but I think I wouldn't delegate anything.
So it would be like just like I got to do this, I got to do
that. And I think people learn to like
rely on other people. I've applied what I've learned
in the punk scene to my outside life.
So I've gotten away from the kind of stuff that I don't
really belong to. For instance, I was working a
job that was probably about 50 to 60 hours a week, high
(21:44):
pressure, high stress corporate job for a corporate company that
I did not like that I thought I could do that.
I thought I could make my own, Icould turn it into a job that
was had some punk ethics and punk morals and I just couldn't.
So I don't even try anymore. Like I'll probably never have a
full time job ever again becauseit just doesn't like go along
(22:08):
with my my life, you know, it doesn't make sense to me.
I want to do this thing and thisthing and this thing.
So, and a lot of these things are volunteer work.
Like I'm doing all kinds of volunteer work.
I'm doing putting on these shows.
I don't make any money off of it.
It's just something that I care about.
So like to have a really demanding lifestyle based on,
you know, currency and capitalism and all these things
(22:29):
that we're told to do and we gotto be moving and doing things
all the time just doesn't work for me anymore.
I'm busy, but I'm busy on my ownterms.
Who have been some of your biggest inspirations during this
whole journey? Well, I always say Ian Mackay,
he's this this musician and runsa record label in Washington, DC
called Discord Records. And he's in a band called
(22:51):
Fugazi. He was a band called Minor
Threat, which is back in the 80s.
And he a lot of things that I like.
Even when I was saying the thingabout, you know, like just doing
what's in front of me and you'renot feeling pressured to have to
work in a corporate environment that that's totally, it almost
feels like I'm modeling myself after him, which is great.
(23:14):
He's he's a very like influential and and his morals
are just like spot on for kind of what I believe in.
But I think also like a lot of my friends have inspired me.
A lot of the people that have gone through these mental health
challenges and come out the other end, you know, with
stability are really inspiring. A lot of the people in my
(23:35):
support group, you know, really inspire me.
Even if they're having the hardest time in the world,
they're right down in the dumps and, you know, they're ready to
run away and never come back. They still really inspire me
because I'll see them the next week and they're doing better
now. I'll see them the next week, and
they're doing, you know, worse again and better again.
And that's the nature of bipolar.
It's you're not going to ever be, you know, completely stable.
(23:59):
So yeah, those people really inspire me.
You know, my partner inspires me.
She does all kinds of cool stuff.
My kids inspire me and a lot of the musicians in the bands to be
able to write music like that and to be able to write such
great lyrics. And you know, people think punk
rock is just all like super easymusic, but it's actually quite
(24:19):
can be quite intricate and that's pretty cool.
To kind of end, what advice do you have for people that might
be dealing with bipolar or have similar mental health struggles
and they feel like they don't? What advice do you have for them
to maybe get them through tough times?
(24:40):
Well, I think when I was first diagnosed, I probably would have
just said it was advice to myself as well.
I would have said just ride it out, you know, take it day by
day, minute by minute. The moods are will pass.
You know, they're, they're not, you're not going to be down and
up like this forever. You're not going to be like out
of control high. It's going to come down again.
You're not going to be super, super low suicidal.
(25:01):
You're going to come back up again.
So that's the advice I'm able togive myself at that point.
Now that I'm more stable, I think I know what's coming.
I can feel the like I, I always talk about symptoms based,
right. So I would explain to people
like, you know, yes, this is a mental health condition.
It's, it's involving a lot of stuff that's, you know, in your
(25:23):
system, in your mind, but it's also very symptoms based, like a
lot of medical conditions. So, you know, like with
depression, I'll get really soreand, and tired and fatigued and
all sort to have headaches and, and sometimes I'll feel like
actually like I've got the flu or cold.
And then in mania I start to feel really like overexcited and
(25:44):
sometimes I'll have start to have like kind of delusional
thoughts and sometimes I'll feellike kind of tingly.
So these are all symptoms of this.
So when I start to feel those symptoms, I'm kind of ahead of
the game, right? Like I'm, I'm not letting myself
get dragged down into feeling horrible because I've, I've
already like clocked those different symptoms.
(26:05):
So I talked about it being sort of like a ladder, like the
ladder of symptoms would be like, you know, like you're kind
of stable. Then all of a sudden you start
to have, you know, like you're getting a bit like tired and
then all of a sudden you're starting to have some negative
thoughts. And then you're, you know, like
running down the ladder and thenyou're down in the suicidal
ideation stuff. And you know, I'm getting down
to close to the bottom and the same thing with the ladder to
(26:27):
the top, you know, the, the, themanic symptoms.
So it's about, I guess it's about like really like pulling
it apart and analyzing it a bit more.
I think when I was in it, in it,it's just that you can't really
do much. You're just like, I want to, I
got to get through this day. You know, that's all you can
really think about once things start to get a bit more settled
(26:48):
and they talk about, you know, bipolar really once you're
diagnosed, it takes a good up to10 years just to kind of get
into what we call remission, right?
So yeah, just just like write itout until you know what those
symptoms are and then pay attention to your to your
symptoms and make sure you can clock them.
And mood charts, like I would say always use a mood chart,
(27:09):
which is just this piece of paper or on your phone or
whatever that you just mark eachday where you are on the chart.
So let's say you have a, you know, 0 is stable and -10 is the
most depressed and plus 10 is the most manic.
You kind of just clock it on there and sort of see what the
patterns are. Those patterns in my case were
very, very constant. Like I would, I could lay out my
(27:31):
six years of charts and see thatthe pattern is there.
It just got from being really upand down like a roller coaster
to being like a smaller roller coaster, but still the same
patterns, which is amazing, right?
It's like that's my body regulating itself over the
years. I've always found the best
advice I give is riding helps. I've always found that, you
(27:55):
know, if you're are having a hard time, writing really does
make a difference and it can just be a sentence, it could be
a tagline that you could write, it could be a A20 page essay
about stuff that's going on. It really doesn't matter and
it's something that you necessarily don't have to share.
(28:15):
It's something that completely could be kept for yourself, but
if you want to share it with other people to help them get
through it, I think that's fine.It's just more of a, it's up to
you. But I always say right
regardless, because you get a lot of honest opinions and some
of your honest, honest thoughts out on paper.
(28:38):
And it really does help you in the long term, in the long run,
and makes you be in such better spirits and helps you get a lot
of anger out. Yeah, like in my in my case with
writing the book, I I felt like I had to get my story out to to
that point. You once I got my story out to
that point, then I could kind ofcarry on from there.
(28:59):
So it almost felt like a survival technique to to write
that book and kind of be done with that chapter and then move
through that, you know, and kindof start life again, I guess
would be the way to say it. For people that want to learn
more about your story and learn more about you, where can they
find you at? I have a website
(29:21):
calledscreentherapyhq.com. So it's Screen Therapy HQ as in
headquarters.com and that's where the podcast is.
You can order the book there. There's some more information
there as well. I don't do a lot of social
media, especially for the screentherapy stuff.
The podcast can be found in all the podcast apps, so you can get
(29:41):
it wherever you listen to a podcast as well as from the
website. So yeah, it's it's I'm out
there, but I'm not like you got to find me, let's put it that
way. And an easy way for you to find
him would be like in my description box, I'll always
put, as I say with all my guests, put off his links in the
description box below so that off his links and social media
(30:06):
accounts will be all in one place for you to find easy
access to. As you said, he's the host of
the Screen Therapy, which is a podcast that he is the host of.
It's available on wherever you get your podcast from.
I just wanted to say quickly, thank you, Jason, for sharing
your story with me and sharing some advice with my listeners.
And keep doing what you're doing.
Stay strong. Thanks a lot, Noah.
(30:28):
Thanks for having me. As always, if you would like to
keep updates about the podcast and would like to follow me on
social media, feel free to follow me on Instagram and
TikTok at Lethal Venom Podcast as well as follow me on
Facebook, YouTube and Twitter atNoah's Podcast.
And also if you would like to keep updates about the podcast
and follow it, the podcast is available where podcasts are
(30:51):
available at Spotify, Apple, Amazon, iHeartRadio, YouTube,
Pandora, it's everywhere. Feel free to follow their the
podcast on there to get notifiedwhen the episodes come out.
Thank you all so much for listening to today's episode.
You have a great rest of your day and week, and I'll catch you
on the next episode of Lethal Venom.
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