Adrienne Farr, with a background in advertising, acting, and publishing, recounts her struggles with an abusive boss and sexual harassment. Despite these challenges, her resolve to buy a house kept her going. She highlights the toxic cultures at her workplaces, exacerbated by the lack of HR or performance reviews, sharing the coping strategies she used to navigate these environments.
https://www.instagram.com/adriennemaparent
https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrienne-farr-1370a2182/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gina (00:00):
Hey, circling back to Adrian, you were here All our
listeners who you are, whatyou're going to chat with us
about, where you're calling fromall the basic details that
everyone is dying to know aboutyou, adrian.
Adrienne (00:14):
Well, okay, so I'm Adrian Farr.
We're talking about the ToxicWorkplace, toxic Work
Environments, and I have hadseveral, and I'm calling in from
New York, woo-oo.
New York in the house, new Yorkin the house and I'm a writer
and editor.
But I've been in so manydifferent industries.
(00:35):
My very first job out ofcollege was as an administrative
assistant in a Fortune 500advertising firm.
I've done acting.
I've done independent film andindependent.
I don't know if there's suchthing as independent television,
but television like behind thescenes, like the production
coordinator, production manager,stuff I've done.
(00:56):
I've taught kids at afterschool services programs and the
last 10 to 12 years I've beenwriting and editing and magazine
publishing.
Gina (01:10):
That's fine Well yes, okay , so take us on a journey.
What was you want?
To?
Tell us a little bit about someof your most toxic workplaces,
and then we can figure out howmaybe we could have done things
differently.
Or let's just see where ourjourney takes us.
Adrienne (01:28):
Adrienne, let's see where our journey takes us.
Okay, so right.
The first job and it's like itgets murky which one came first,
which one came second.
But these were in my late 20sand the first crazy experience
that I had was at an advertisingagency.
(01:49):
Not the one that I got rightafter I graduated from school,
it was like I was in betweenjobs.
It was probably right after,actually, 9-11, which has just
passed us and I was trying toget because I had been acting
for a while and I wasn't makingany money and I was trying to
get back into advertising, whichyou know, when you leave a
(02:11):
field, it's kind of hard to getback in when you've been going
for a few years.
So I ended up getting thisadvertising job that I do not
even remember how I found outabout it, but it was basically
three employees besides myselfthe owner of the company, his
wife and then this woman is thebest way I can describe her just
(02:35):
this woman who worked there.
Gina (02:37):
What did she do there.
Adrienne (02:39):
What did?
Gina (02:39):
the woman do there.
Adrienne (02:42):
She was sort of like in an admin position.
She was very quiet, very meekand I don't have any evidence,
but I think that I'm sure thatshe was getting some abusive
language from the boss.
Because eventually, whathappened was I was only there
(03:07):
for like two weeks and Iremember speaking to this guy on
the phone because I'm trying todo like you know, call in.
You know he wanted me to changesome ads around and you know
somebody couldn't run something.
They're called make goods, sowhen you can't run something,
the client calls you and is likeokay, well, we could put it
(03:28):
here.
It has the same rating.
So that kind of thing was goingon.
And so I was doing myprofessional Adrian advertising
stuff.
And the guy on the phone waslike wait, did you get a real
advertising company before?
And I'm like what do you meanreal?
Isn't this a real advertisingcompany?
Well, yeah, I did.
(03:49):
And then he's like you are waytoo nice and professional to be
there.
He's like I give you two weeks.
I give you two weeks.
What did you think when he saidthat?
I was just like why are yousaying this?
He was like just trust me, Igive you no more than two weeks
in this place and I lasted liketwo weeks because the guy who
(04:09):
ran the place was nuts.
He was literally he would likedance, crazy dances.
And then I just was at my deskand I heard him screaming and
cursing at this woman who Ididn't know was his wife at the
time I found out sometime withinthe two weeks that it was his
wife but I mean like cursing herout, calling her stupid bitch
(04:33):
and all of this, and why did youthis and why did you that?
Oh yeah, and it was not onlysomething I think that she had
done at work, but then itsomehow morphed into a
conversation about, like whatwas going on at home.
And I mean it was just like Iwas just like what the entire
hell is going on here.
(04:53):
He never spoke to me like that,but I'm also somebody who is
like don't, can you curse onthis?
Gina (05:00):
Fuck yeah.
Adrienne (05:03):
So I'm always.
I'm also like that person,don't fuck around and find out.
I have that kind of energy.
Nicola (05:11):
So there is a there is an Australian saying that says
we're not here to fuck spiders.
Adrienne (05:17):
I don't.
What does that mean?
I don't get it.
Nicola (05:20):
You know questions we all have have no answers to.
But, in summary, what it meansis like we're not here to fuck
around.
We are here to get shit done.
We're not here to fuck spiders.
Gina (05:34):
Okay, got it, thank you, australia, thank you, thank you,
yeah, so anyway, I get thatenergy.
Like I get that energy, adrian,because before I moved down
here to Florida, I was living inHarlem and this guy was like,
was like nobody ever fucks withyou.
And I was like, yeah, I knowhe's like, he's like you.
(05:55):
You, it's like one of thoseguys you know living in Harlem.
There's always like a couple ofolder guys who are always like
out on the stoop, kind of likethey'd been there in their, in
their either their Brownstone ortheir apartment for like 30
years or something insane, likeinsanely long.
And there was this one guy thatwas like I see you, nobody
fucks with you.
And I was like that's right.
Adrienne (06:15):
So I get that energy like give me a break, so anyway,
so that's just.
That's really it in a nutshell.
There was no reason for me tostay there.
It was crazy and I just decidedto leave.
And one I had one conversationwith the, with the woman that
was an admin, where she was likeI hate this place, I just want
(06:37):
to get out.
But it was sort of like I thinkshe was there because she felt
like she had to be in.
Nobody else would hire her.
So after I left, I found outabout a position and I called
her to tell her and she actedlike she did not even know me.
This was like a week and a halflater.
What?
Nicola (06:55):
the hell.
Adrienne (06:56):
I know I get the.
I was like hi, so remember,when we were talking yeah, and
then it was like it was justlike one word answers, but I
think the guy might have beenstanding right next to her so I
was like, well, okay, goodbye,click.
I just never like that you haveno idea.
Gina (07:13):
She just disappeared like a part in the wind.
Adrienne (07:16):
I don't even know what happened.
Gina (07:20):
So what was the final straw?
That you were like if thisplace, I'm not coming?
Adrienne (07:24):
back.
Well that.
And then he paraded in one daywith some young girl and he like
had her by the hand, taking herall I don't know what he was
showing her.
He was like showing her theoffice, but I'm like he's
holding her hand, he's, like youknow, bouncing around, like
he's just so happy to be in herpresence, and I'm like, wait,
(07:44):
doesn't his wife?
Like, isn't his wife in thatoffice right there?
It was just enough, it wasenough.
And the only one thing he saidto me one time is I was eating
lunch after like the normallunch hours.
It was like maybe two o'clockand I was hungry, I hadn't eaten
, and so I got lunch and he'slike you know, I thought I saw
(08:05):
you eating before and I'm like,yeah, no, you didn't see me
eating before.
Gina (08:10):
Who cares.
Adrienne (08:10):
Well, it's after lunchtime, and then I'm like
well, I'm hungry now.
And then he said you know, youseemed really nice in the
interview.
Like I guess he thought that hewas going to be able to, like,
you know, treat me as a reallynice in the interview, but
you're not really who you seem.
And I'm like well, neither areyou.
Gina (08:31):
Oh my God, I love this exchange, that's hilarious.
Adrienne (08:34):
Oh yeah, that was it.
I don't even remember.
If I told him I was leaving, Icertainly did not give a two
week notice.
Hell, no, no.
So I just no-transcript.
Gina (08:45):
So you just left.
Okay, so that was your firsttouch with toxicity, which
brings us to your next.
I have a feeling it's gonna getworse before it gets better.
Nicola (08:55):
I feel like all of this is getting worse.
Adrienne (08:58):
Yeah, they're all kind of bad.
So they were this other place,this architectural firm that I
worked at, I mean, you know itwas.
I guess the first place was alittle worse than this.
This place was kind of likethis guy's name was on the door,
his wife was a doll, his wifeworked there as well, but he
just would every interactionwith someone would be yelling,
(09:20):
would be cursing.
He didn't know how to speak toanyone.
I actually screamed at him onetime because he was in a meeting
with a whole bunch of mucketymucks and it was right behind my
desk because I sat like in theopen because at this time I was
just trying to buy my house.
I was trying to like get enoughmoney to buy my house.
So I went back to being anexecutive assistant and so my
(09:44):
desk was like right in the frontand he was like he asked me to
call someone for him.
So I'm on the phone, I'mspeaking with the person to like
get me in touch with the personand he's screaming from the
conference room a name, like tosay and you know cause I was
saying, oh, this is such andsuch a person and he wanted so
(10:06):
badly for me to say the name ofthe other muckety muck that was
in the room.
He's like screaming at me andI'm trying to take in what he's
saying.
Take in what the person on thephone is saying.
It turned around.
I was like, oh my God, crazy.
So then later that day he hadlike a wingman, his you know,
(10:27):
head person, that was thoroughlyabused and I heard them behind
me talking about like how he wasgonna fire me and you know, I
was just gonna tell her to walkout the door and leave and never
come back, and but and then,and then the other guy was just
like okay, calm down, calm down,I don't sit in there, like you
(10:48):
know, whatever.
But anyway, this was after somuch had happened.
I was there for over a year andthis the young lady who used to
work with me left and likethere were temps after her
because he was just so like hewas known for that, known for,
you know, just talking down topeople and treating people
really badly.
And also there was like abathroom in the middle of the
(11:11):
office where he would go andlike blow it up and like just
walk out with the door open, youknow, like you know, wiping his
hands after he washed them andlike the stench was, I'm just
like.
Nicola (11:25):
Oh my God, it was a podcast.
Hold on.
Has this podcast turned intopoop talk?
Do we need to rename thepodcast?
Gina (11:36):
I feel like it's possible.
We have talked about poop talk.
We've had like poop discussionsfor the last like Podcasts in a
row.
Nicola (11:42):
We've spoken about poop, really.
Gina (11:45):
I'm like is this?
Yeah, like somehow come up inlike some part, oh my, God yeah,
so hold on.
Nicola (11:50):
So this guy's going to the bathroom.
Like I need more details.
Like are we listening?
Like can we hear the?
You know?
Are you sitting in your cubicleand you're hearing?
Like Roar.
Adrienne (12:03):
I was like I didn't hear the roar, I didn't hear
like the farts or anything but.
Nicola (12:10):
Oh, baby Jesus, come out of me Satan.
Adrienne (12:14):
My back would go to him, so he would like have to
walk.
So sometimes I wouldn't evenknow that he was in the bathroom
until I smelled it, and so thenI would turn around.
Oh my God, how close is that,how close is this?
Okay, let me set the scene soit's the door to come in, it's
my desk and then the desk of theother executive assistant
(12:35):
behind me.
Then there's like a littlehallway, the conference room,
and then like a wall.
So on the other side of thewall was the bathroom.
It's not like it was in myimmediate area.
Gina (12:50):
It was like oh my God, that's even worse Cause it was
that like Stenture-ific that, ohmy God.
Oh, was this like?
Did people in the office talkabout it?
No, nobody.
And this is the-.
I would have been like, I wouldhave been the first to be like
what is that horrible smell?
Adrienne (13:11):
I mean, at least they didn't talk to me about it.
But this is the like when youwork in a toxic workplace you
don't even know who to trust.
Gina (13:19):
You know what I mean.
Adrienne (13:20):
You don't know who to go back and say something.
So nobody ever said anything tome.
I don't, and I never saidanything to anybody else.
So I think we all I don't evenknow the poor people that were,
cause there was like a wholeoffice of people right in front
and around the bathroom, so Idon't even know what they were
(13:40):
smelling.
If I was smelling that, so Imean it, just yeah.
Gina (13:51):
I knew you, you okay, All right.
So he was like just abusive toyour he was abusive.
Adrienne (13:59):
He was abusive.
I think there was one personthere that I remember coming up
in a conversation one or twopeople that he didn't talk to
like that.
Gina (14:11):
And were they her peers or were they like no they weren't
his peers, but they were.
Adrienne (14:16):
They were like top level.
They weren't his peers, butthey were definitely top level.
Gina (14:20):
Well, that makes sense, cause you can't really abuse,
you can't bite the hand that'sbeing abused Cause he abused
some other top level.
Adrienne (14:26):
You don't want to bite that hand.
It's being pooped on.
Yeah, no, you don't.
Maybe they.
Maybe maybe he had some levelof respect for them.
I mean, I don't know.
Yeah.
Gina (14:36):
Yeah.
Adrienne (14:38):
I don't know.
Gina (14:39):
And so how long did you last there?
Adrienne (14:41):
I lasted there for over a year because again, I
wanted to buy a house.
I needed that salary, I neededthat.
So did you buy the house?
I did.
I did eventually end up buyingthe house, and I think not soon
after I bought the house.
I couldn't take that placeanymore and I ended up here.
Gina (15:01):
I feel like I'm out of here, yeah.
Adrienne (15:04):
So that's where did you.
Gina (15:05):
Where did you find yourself next?
Adrienne (15:07):
Oh my gosh.
So the next place was acustomer service.
I was a customer servicemanager at.
Like this upscale furnitureplace.
Oh wait, I remember youmentioned this Day one.
What?
Nicola (15:26):
I'm so excited already.
Gina (15:29):
Okay, was it like?
Was it like a national chain,or was it like a fruit and a?
Adrienne (15:34):
boutique in Manhattan.
It was a very boutique.
You know like in Manhattan youcan walk into these fancy places
where a pillow is $1,000 or howmuch is it?
Gina (15:44):
Yeah, so it was like that it was like that.
Adrienne (15:46):
And so day one my manager is training me, she
starts bawling, crying.
Day one, she's like bawling,crying, there was this stack of
papers on my desk, in my inbox.
I don't even know who the hellwas there before me, but whoever
(16:09):
it was had left this work, andso I was like, okay, well, I'll
go through this.
She's like okay, I'll gothrough it with you, because
obviously it was day one, Ididn't really know what to do.
And so, as she's going throughit, like she has other work to
do and I guess maybe I wasasking too many questions and
it's like she couldn't bottle inher emotions anymore and she
literally just lost it andstarted bawling and like I have
(16:32):
to go and do it.
And I'm just like, oh my gosh,like what in the hell am I
getting into?
But I found out very quicklyand, by the way, the boss at
that place not the person whoowned the place, he was very
cool, that guy was very cool,but he wasn't I didn't work with
him a lot but the person thatwas like the CEO or the COO,
(16:54):
whatever the hell I found outthat she actually got ousted
from her last job because shewas so mean.
The entire staff bandedtogether and was like if she
does not go, we are all leaving.
Gina (17:13):
We're all going that's crazy.
And so then they hired her atyour this new place.
Yeah, yeah, so did you have todeal with her.
Adrienne (17:23):
Oh, I dealt with her on a daily basis.
She was mean, she was snippy,she, I mean, she would just
stand there and she would yellat people.
She, I mean, it was just, shewas so nasty.
But you know, what these threeplaces have in common is that
they were not considered likeFortune 500, corporate America
Mind you, those jobs definitelyhave their issues too, but there
(17:47):
was like no ramifications, youknow Like.
So the place that Adversariesand Agents, he had no HR.
The second place did have an HR, but it was still like his name
was on the door and it was verymuch like you were walking into
his home and this place had noHR.
You know what I mean?
It was just very kinds of likeI'm starting this company, it
(18:09):
got big and it's like, you know,it's sort of like you're
walking into their house andthey feel like they don't have
to abide by a certain level ofrules.
Gina (18:19):
Right, cause there's really no like checks and
balances, which you do have inlike a huge company, Like there
will be ramifications, there areperformance reviews, and in a
smaller company, there'stypically no.
I mean performance reviews.
I mean I don't-.
Adrienne (18:34):
I mean there's supposed to be.
I'm sure that's supposed to befollowing some kind of
guidelines, and perhaps therewere some kind of guidelines
being followed, but you know,that kind of it just was.
It was just toxic, it wasabusive.
There was this one lady therethat she would be crying all the
time too, because she was like,oh, she just is so
disrespectful, she treats melike crap, and I mean it was
(18:56):
just absolutely.
I remember one time once again,cause I guess I have that look
like just please don't mess withme.
But she said to me like in themiddle of a conversation, oh
goodness.
And once she told me and thisother lady, you know there's no
talking here and we I'm sorry,what?
Gina (19:15):
There's no talking at a place of work.
No talking here.
Adrienne (19:18):
And we were literally talking about the copy machine,
Like I think we were asking eachother oh, are these your copies
?
Or something like that.
And it's not that we were loud,we were just like talking.
And she literally comes out ofher office there's no talking
here Just like is she mad, Isshe serious?
Yeah, that's crazy.
So, anyway, one time she said tome you know, you look at me
(19:38):
like you think I'm stupid.
Like well, yeah, you know,you're like, wow, well, I'm not
wrong.
Yeah, I'm not wrong exactly,and I just, of course, I said
something professional, becausethe one thing I never am is
unprofessional.
There is nobody anywhere that Ihave ever worked for that can
claim unprofession.
(19:59):
I will go back as far aspossible.
That is never me so, and I'mnever disrespectful or rude
either, you know, but it's justthis thing where, like I am, so
not the one, but and it was ashame because you know, there
were people there spending tensof thousands of dollars on
(20:21):
furniture and if somethinghappened with them because it
was like a man beingmanufactured so fast that the
quality started to suffer, andso they would get these
expensive pieces in their homeand stuff would happen to them a
leg would break, like thefinish on top would be
compromised, and I'm trying toreally figure out how to help
them and it would literally belike she would come into my
(20:45):
office and the other managerwould literally be like, okay,
well, they had it in the sun andthey shouldn't have had their
blinds open.
So you can tell them that that,like it, would be trying to
figure out how it was theirfault.
Which is it was-.
Yeah, user error.
Yeah, yep, and it wasunfortunate because I always,
(21:06):
when I left that place, I gotlaid off of there.
No, kidding, and-.
Gina (21:12):
I love your attitude about it.
You're like whatever.
Adrienne (21:15):
Yeah, I wasn't so and I was.
So I was so happy when shecalled me and then laid me off
and she even said to me I said,well, you know, that's fine, she
was waiting for me, I guess, tohave some sad reaction.
I was like, well, you know,I'll find another job.
She's like I've never seenanybody so happy to be laid off.
Like girl, did you work here?
Yeah, that's fine.
We were having two differentexperiences.
(21:38):
Yes, I always wish that I wouldhave written the owner a note
to tell him exact cause I don'tknow if he knew exactly what was
going on.
Probably not.
I don't think he did, but yeah,no, Is that place still in
business?
(21:58):
I don't I try to find them.
I literally recently, well likewithin the past year or so
Googled their name and I'm notseeing any thing.
Gina (22:09):
Yeah, so they're probably out of business.
Yeah, yeah, maybe, but alsoCOVID and everything.
Adrienne (22:14):
It got really rough for a lot of people.
Gina (22:16):
It did, it did.
Yeah, that's true, All right.
So what was your next place?
That was a total shit show.
Adrienne (22:25):
Then my next place was just sort of corporate America
job.
So I entered back intocorporate America, corporate
America, and there's just aseries of situations that
happened.
I mean, see, in corporateAmerica you have to be very
(22:46):
careful.
Some people are like I've heardstories from friends that are
coworkers, where people wereblatantly disrespectful,
blatantly racist, blatantly rude.
But it's more of a situationwhere you're you can tell you're
purposely being held backbecause they don't want you
(23:09):
elevating into a certainposition which is very toxic,
because you're doing all thiswork and your work is good, but
somehow you keep getting passedup for the promotion.
All right, there were timeswhere I would go to my boss and
ask for additional work and myreviews would be glowing and
(23:30):
wonderful, but for some reason Iwould never get them.
And then, in one place that Iworked specifically, it was very
strange because it would belike, all of a sudden, people
who weren't my manager or likemy direct reporter, who I wasn't
directly reporting into, wouldhave all this information about
my position.
(23:51):
That, like they're now comingto tell me okay, we're not doing
this anymore, we're doing thisnow.
And I'd be like, why are youtelling me?
I mean, the person would be astep above me, but I didn't
report him to them.
So that's like not the org chart, like you're not supposed to be
(24:12):
following me, but there wassome backdoor shenanigans going
on which eventually I was laidoff from that position as well.
So there's many things.
I mean I went through atakeover where all of the legacy
employees were let go and therewas some nefarious stuff going
(24:35):
on with our severance and it'sjust.
It's very difficult to get intospecifics with those situations
, but again, it was just thistoxic corporate environment
where people kind of knew thatthey could do certain things,
they kind of knew how to skirtthe rules and yeah, yeah, okay
(25:02):
so I think, sorry, just to say,specifically speaking about
diversity and inclusion.
So diversity and inclusionexploded after George Floyd was
murdered and it's like everycompany wanted to figure out how
to be more diverse, cause itwas sort of like in their face
now, cause, you know, blackpeople have been saying since
(25:24):
the dawn of time that this ishow we were being treated, and
it wasn't until, like you sawthe foot in his neck that people
were like oh, I guess thisreally is happening.
And so there was a push to kindof understand the plight, and
that was amazing.
But then it was first someplaces we, I know were black
(25:49):
people or people of color werebeing asked to like go above and
beyond, to teach, to likeinform, and not being
compensated for all this extrawork that we were doing with,
like you know, programming andjust all this stuff.
And then it kind of was likeokay, well, that happened,
(26:11):
that's over, now we can go backto how we used to be.
And so that is also very toxic,because it's like, okay, who do
we go to if we have a problem?
Can we really go to HR and talk?
Is anything really gonna bedone about it?
So All of that, all of that,all of that will be very toxic
(26:33):
workplaces.
Gina (26:35):
Okay.
So I think corporate America is, it's so like fucked because
there's like no, there's oftenno work-life balance.
It's, you know, the gears ofchange move very slowly.
There's a lot of passing thebuck, like, oh well, you got to
(26:57):
ask this person.
That person's like, oh no, yougot to ask this person.
Or you know, there's no way toget like firm answers.
Adrienne (27:03):
A lot of the time we put your name in for a promotion
but like it's getting stopped.
That was one of the mostmaddening things that myself and
a lot of coworkers went through, where you would be up for a
promotion but then thepromotions would be freeze,
would be frozen.
Gina (27:22):
Or they still didn't Right or like oh no, we're not
actually hiring for that anymore.
Or there would be tons ofexcuses, like even they do it
even in hiring process, justlike giving your application.
Then you hear back from themlike seven months later and
they're like we decided we don'treally need this position
(27:42):
filled.
And you're like it's like forCFO or something and you're like
, oh okay, like you're justtaking CFO or CEO or COO like
off the table because we justdon't need it.
We probably like gave all ofthose responsibilities to
another employee, like okay.
Adrienne (27:59):
That's what would happen, like so you would let go
of someone, you would get thatlarge salary back and then never
rehire.
So then Right, because theywould like spread it out.
Gina (28:09):
Yeah, yes, that's called.
What is that quiet hiring?
Adrienne (28:12):
Then quiet hiring, I'm not even sure, but I know that
it's like then you would hearalready working like the
work-life balance is it did notexist.
That's why New York is tryingto get, and, like these
companies are trying to getpeople to come back off of
remote work.
Like good luck, okay, becauselike please, you know, like four
hour round trip commutes, threehour round trip commutes.
(28:34):
No, it's ridiculous, that's it.
I don't think so.
Yeah, it's crazy.
And the hours sometimesmidnight, sometimes 9 pm,
weekends, it's just it's Wow.
Gina (28:49):
It's great and I do think that's very specific to America.
I don't think many othercountries are cool with that.
You know, like sometimes I'llbe working with like a company
that's located in like the UK orwhatever, and it's like I'll
send an email back and then I'llget a bounce back.
That's like I'm on my annualleave for like the next two
(29:11):
weeks and you're like what is anannual leave?
How do I get one?
Like it's ridiculous.
So I mean, I do think it isvery specific to America.
So I think, yes, like there are.
I haven't been in like I workwith corporate America, but I
don't work in it.
So I don't really know whatthat looks like anymore, cause
(29:35):
I've been out of working withlike in a corporate, like a big
corporate America company.
I'm just a vendor now, so Idon't even know what that looks
like anymore, you know.
Adrienne (29:47):
Like not good.
Gina (29:48):
Not good.
Adrienne (29:49):
No, it's the same, it's.
I mean, you feel that there isthis atmosphere of feeling bad
to take a day off and even whenyou take time off, you're still
like like you'll send out themessage but I'll be checking
sporadically, Like you're stillkind of expected to still check
in, not go totally out,especially the higher up the
(30:11):
totem pole you get.
There's like to be on vacationand completely off where nobody
can get in.
Contact you with you is rare.
That is an anomaly.
Gina (30:22):
Yes, so I mean, I own the company that I work for now, so
I really don't.
That's different, though, causeI really don't get like I the
buck stops with me, so I don'treally get that, but also like
I'm able to decide how much Iwant to work every day, right,
so there's like an upside, soit's different, but with
(30:43):
corporate America, yeah, it'slike, nicola, you experienced
that Like, even though weweren't really in a corporate
company, like a super corporatecompany, they borrowed the
shitty things from corporateAmerica.
Nicola (30:56):
It was so bad.
You yeah yeah, it was so badand I was like what the fuck?
But then, okay, so in NewZealand and it's going to be a
different podcast altogether,but in New Zealand we do have
some American style companiesthat have worked out how to
contract out of our legalobligations that we have in
(31:18):
place to keep people, I want tosay, safe, right.
So we've got health and safetylaws, we've got employment laws,
we've got holiday act laws.
You know, we've got shit inplace to make sure that people
have the space and the time thatthey need to recoup from work.
We've got very specific, youknow, things around how long you
(31:41):
can work for Carnity leave.
Adrienne (31:44):
Isn't your maternity leave really long?
Nicola (31:47):
No, it was when I had my son 10 years ago.
It was 16 weeks, I think.
Now it's 26.
They're looking at maybe makingit a year.
I'm not sure We'll see wherewe're about.
We get what we get 90 days.
You don't get any days, girl.
I remember that I had to go andjust do it.
You get a $25,000 bill for onebaby.
Gina (32:08):
We do in.
Adrienne (32:08):
America.
No, it's way more than that.
To have a baby in America islike way, way more than that.
Like you, better have insurance.
Gina (32:17):
Well, yeah, but what we have to pay for just differs
based on everyone's insurance.
Like I don't, what if I haveinsurance?
No, in America you have to haveinsurance or else you get
penalized on your taxes.
So it's a real clusterfuck,right?
We're going down a differentroute now.
Oh my God, why America?
We have to pay for our clients,okay just explain it, Everybody
(32:40):
come on.
Come on, everybody, comeeverybody.
So we have to pay for our ownhealth care, right?
Whether that's through ouremployer or through you know
you're paying it out of pocket,right?
So even then, sometimes, likewhen I was self-insured
(33:01):
previously, I was paying closeto two grand a month just to
have basic health insurance,just for me.
Sorry, two grand a month, yes,yep, are you fucking kidding me?
No, and I am young, I'm in goodhealth, like, yeah, exactly, we
have really taken God not downon a tangent, but but this is
(33:24):
part of toxic work, because itis especially in America.
Adrienne (33:28):
Yeah, because you, literally, there is a friend of
mine who literally had to figureout.
This job that she was gettingwas an enormous bump in salary,
like I'm talking like $20,000,$30,000 more, but the health
insurance was so expensive.
She had to literally figure outis it better for me to just
(33:52):
stay where I am and be unhappyor to go to this other place and
like change everything that I'mfamiliar with at this other job
and, like you know, have alittle bit more extra income but
like most of it is going to payfor health insurance.
It's nice.
Gina (34:13):
Yeah, no, I get it.
So I think it is part of theAmerican corporate sort of
toxicity it's just kind of builtin to.
And then of course that opensup the whole thing.
Like you know, okay, what ifyou really like, what if you're
in a really shitty position?
You know, and you're not goingto get fired, but you know
you're kids sick and you needthat insurance and you're like
(34:34):
really being abused.
It's like or being bullied orwhatever.
It's like you're going to stayat that workplace to get the
health insurance you know, soit's just granted.
Hopefully that doesn't happenthat often, but you hear these
stories probably more often thanwe want to admit that.
You know they're just beingtaken advantage of, but they
(34:55):
have to stay because of healthinsurance or whatever.
This is horrible, it is.
It's kind of used as it'salmost like I was going to say
it's weaponized.
It's weaponized healthcare.
It can be, and I don'tnecessarily know if I don't know
who's to blame there, if it'scorporate America or if it's the
health insurance industry inAmerica as a whole 110% the
(35:19):
insurance companies.
I mean.
Adrienne (35:23):
I mean not that I know for sure, but that is my belief
.
Yeah, I think insurance as awhole homeowners insurance, car
insurance, life insurance I mean, think about it you constantly
are paying into these things andthen, when you need them maybe
minus health insurance, but likecar insurance and maybe health
(35:44):
insurance too, but lifeinsurance you're paying into all
of this stuff and when you needit it's like it's like the
furniture company you put it inthe light, it's not covered
right yeah, exactly Exactly, oryou find every reason to deny
you it goes up, or it goes upLike if they have to pay out for
(36:04):
something, then they're gettingtheir money back somehow,
somehow, because the premium isgoing to go up.
Gina (36:10):
But also I feel like it's the most ridiculous regulated
Ponzi scheme of all schemes.
Oh well, absolutely, becauseit's like you're paying into
this and then they're using yourpayments to pay everyone else's
and pocket some.
It's just, it's like aregulated Ponzi scheme that
happens to be legal.
Okay, rant over, all right.
(36:34):
So where do you end up next,adrienne, give us the good that
was it.
Adrienne (36:40):
That is the list of my toxic work environments.
There's, of course, otherthings that I've seen and all
that, but that kind of do youthink I need?
Do you think I need any moretorture?
Gina (36:58):
No, but I know, when you originally wrote in to be on the
show, you mentioned that youwere working in TV and I think,
because now we're hearing a lotmore about like Jimmy Fallon is
now being called out for toxicworkplace practices.
You know, lizzo, she'sentertainment on TV.
Nicola (37:18):
Oh the Lizzo.
One just is a king.
My brain sells.
Gina (37:22):
So people are now reacting to her Instagram because her
Instagram is highly sexualizedand that's her decision.
You don't have to follow her, ifyou don't want to, but I think
in light of the allegations it'sa little tacky, like maybe just
tone it down, just a little bitBody positivity, all for it.
But kind of like read the room,like maybe now, now's not the
(37:45):
right time to be twerking inyour thong in the middle of like
a ginormous mansion, you know.
But yeah, do you have anything?
Just because we know you didwork in the entertainment, you
know industry, do you haveanything to share about that?
Adrienne (37:59):
in general, Well, I mean.
So again, it does bring to minda situation where I was kind of
, I guess, sexually abused.
I'm not laughing at that, I'mjust laughing because it's, you
(38:22):
know, it's such a shame becauseI think during that time there's
just certain, a certainworkplace culture within that
industry that sometimes was sostatus quo that you didn't even
was abuse, if that makes sense.
Gina (38:42):
But it does, because I like that and I think we've
talked about this before.
You know, back in, like the,the, the early the late 90s,
early 2000s, when I was justcoming into corporate America
from college, there wasabsolutely a level of sexual
sexualization, sexual harassment, that was still somewhat
(39:03):
acceptable in corporate America.
Being, you know, being a young,in my case, semi attractive
female, you know, we got, I gotit a lot and so did some of my
coworkers, but it was just kindof like oh, it's a corporate
America and I was working onWall Street, so it's like
corporate America, you know,this is, it's to be expected.
Adrienne (39:24):
Like boys will be boys .
Yeah, that is very much likewhat it was, and I'm literally
just remembering when I did likethis freelance stint working
with this director in the office.
It was kind of like admin typestuff.
It was a it a semi popularmovie, and he was coming on to
(39:50):
me hard, I mean, at the copymachine, like he took me out and
it just was very, when I lookback on it, it was it was just
not right.
Like I was so young and this iswhat's sad about it is that
people will say, well, whydidn't you do this?
(40:10):
Why didn't you do that?
You have to understand people.
You're so young.
Like when you're in your 20seven if it's your late 20s, that
is like night and day, comparedto like when you're in your mid
to late 40s, it's absolutely.
And so I was so young and Ididn't even realize that that is
(40:31):
literally considered sexualabuse.
What he was doing, like youknow, rubbing it to me, eating
me out to lunch, trying to kissme, you know I just was to me,
it was like a man that wasattracted to me, you know, and I
could kind of like this is whatyou have to put up with.
But yeah, and it was just it'sjust really sad that that's how,
(40:52):
like we were kind of programmedto think, and now it's like I
hope, I hope it's zero tolerance.
It seems now to be like moreout there, like you cannot do
this, whereas back then in theearly 2000s, it wasn't.
Gina (41:07):
I mean, it was status it was what you said status quo,
like I expected that.
Like as a young person out ofcollege, I was like what?
21, 22?
I expected that.
And I had come from a situationand your story reminds me of
this I was a receptionist, likein my high school, like summer,
(41:28):
I'm sorry, in college, inbetween semesters I would come
home and live with my mom anddad.
And I got a job once becauseyou know, I was taking some time
off and it was at thischiropractors office and I maybe
was 20, maybe 21 max, and thiswas like a 40 something year old
chiropractor single.
He started sending me flowers,he took me out to dinner and my
(41:55):
mom and blessed, like this isnot her fault, she's, she co
signed it.
She's like, oh, maybe you'llmarry a doctor.
Yeah, but you have to understand.
This was like in like 1999,2000, maybe max, and so.
So it was kind of like like wewould joke about it and I'd be
(42:16):
like wait.
And I was so naive, adrian, I Ihad to ask him wait, do you
like me?
Like romantically, I thought hewas just being nice and my mom
kind of co-signed it, you knowwith.
I don't she wasn't doing itmaliciously, but I think that
was just the zeitgeist, it'slike you know.
(42:38):
So I get that.
So then, going from thatexperience, and I went back to
college eventually and hestarted Sending me flowers at
college and then finally I waslike, yeah, I don't like this,
I'm not responding to himanymore, but um, but I think it
just illustrates your point likethis was normal for us in the
early 2000s and if that happensto me today, I'd be like why are
(43:00):
you send?
I'd be like why are you sendingme flowers?
Quit it like, stop it well.
Nicola (43:06):
So when I worked in Thailand circa 2009, which isn't
1999, just to be clear Um,because I was working in like a
male dominated industry, Iremember very clearly going to a
presentation where I wasexplaining, kind of, where the
gaps were with regards to ourhealth and safety issues that we
(43:29):
were facing, and it was a roomfull of men.
I was the only woman there andI dressed up for Presenting you
know, presenting a meeting.
I wasn't right, we're zenting,though, you know, I was just
like wearing a nice.
Gina (43:43):
You're such a dork, but you know like I'm not there
flashing my tits.
Nicola (43:50):
I'm there wearing a long skirt and like a work shirt.
You know, like my tits on out,my ass isn't out.
And Halfway through the meetingthis man stood up and it was
not a huge boardroom, but herubbed his very erect penis
right across my ass while I waspresenting.
Gina (44:12):
Did everyone see it?
Yes, so just like, do somethingsuper sexually inappropriate in
front of everyone, maybe, maybethey'll let you go?
Yeah, that's so sad.
Okay, so so was so.
When you had your like, whenyou are working for this in the
entertainment industry, was itaround that same time period
(44:33):
that the sexual harassment orabuse, but however you want to
refer to it, that's, I feel likethat's a personal decision.
Yeah, that was.
That was in that time frame.
Adrienne (44:44):
Yeah, it was all in that time frame.
But what I will say is, likethe sort of staff positions that
I had at this one productioncompany I mean there I once
again it was like one of theowners was very like.
He kind of talked down toeverybody, cursed a lot, he had
an assistant director that hewould curse out a lot and
(45:06):
everything.
I never he never did that to me, but he I saw him do it to a
lot of other people.
But the other partners in theplace were very nice.
I never kind of really ran intoany Problems working at that
production company.
Besides, see, it's so weirdbecause it's like I did see this
kind of behavior and it wasvery toxic.
(45:27):
So even though it wasn'thappening to me, I should still
recognize that as a problem.
Gina (45:32):
That is a problem, yeah.
Adrienne (45:34):
Yeah, but yeah, exactly, it doesn't matter that
it didn't happen to me, it's aproblem.
So there was that, but yeah,that was that was it, though
those two instances and thedirector that was, like you know
, propositioning me andeverything that was at a
completely different place, suretotally yeah.
Gina (45:55):
So, in conclusion, do you think you should, now that you
kind of were older and wiser now, which is what we've been
saying, like you know, when wewere 20 we would have been like
we were.
We were like, okay, this is,you know, status quo, standard,
just have to grin and bear itkind of thing.
Looking back now and knowingbeing older and wiser, do you
(46:17):
think you could have doneanything differently or picked
up on the red flag sooner?
I mean, it sounds like youpretty much knew, but maybe it
took you a while to get to thepoint where you were like I'm
out of here or you know.
Adrienne (46:32):
Yeah, I kind of just so.
I like right, I saw it.
But you know, sometimes youjust need a job and that's what
people in in certain places likeI was in that one place where I
was literally Going through theprocess of purchasing a house,
I needed to show study income, Ineeded to show my bank accounts
(46:56):
.
Every now and again They'd becalling me oh, let's get your
bank records for the next threemonths.
So it was like I mean I couldhave left, but then that would
have like derailed my whole bythe process.
So there's, there's those kindof things.
And then, you know, like I saidwith the Other thing, that was
like literally sexual abuse.
I didn't even realize it wassexual abuse.
(47:18):
Like if the meat movement didnot happen to this day, I don't
know that I would have calledthat sexual abuse, which is kind
of sad.
But um, but I think, like the,the telltale signs for like
thinking, like, just like thered flags is Actually I want to
(47:38):
like, because I'm not an expert.
But I want to just go through,like this article that I read.
That was really good.
It's a Forbes article and theyspoke to experts, which is what
you're supposed to be doing whenyou know like right, general,
but they were like, these werethe some of the things they came
they came up with.
If a toxic workplace is draininglike nobody should be drained,
(48:02):
just like with the thought ofgoing to work.
If it's Demotivating, you know,like if your ideas are not
being listened to and likenobody's trying to, like you
know, help you get to the nextlevel, that's a problem.
If there's a high turnover rate, which is one of the situations
that I was in, where people,like if people are constantly
(48:25):
leaving, that should tell yousomething.
If a workplace promotesunhealthy boundaries, which is
the working to midnight,expecting you to answer on the
weekend and all that stuff,that's unhealthy boundaries.
That's a toxic workplace.
Lacks transparency is veryimportant the whole thing, like
where you was saying past thebook so okay, what about my
(48:45):
promotion?
Oh well, it's stuck in HR withthis person and that person.
If people aren't beingtransparent about what's
happening or even what'shappening with the company in
terms of, like, the health ofthe company, financial health
and all of that, that's aproblem.
When there's low morale, whenit doesn't support professional
(49:07):
growth and, obviously, where itpermits like harassment and
bullying, those are likeObviously red flags, but like
some of the more subtle redflags, is like when you're being
ostracized, when you'restarting to like Not being
included in meeting that youused to be included in, all
those kinds of things.
That's all very toxic.
(49:27):
It doesn't have to be like asovert as like sexual abuse,
something like it's just, orlike constantly being told that
the raise you were Promised,like you were when you got, were
hired, it's like two or threepercent raises or five percent
raises every year.
Three years go by and you'venever gotten a raise.
But you're doing more work andthat's a toxic work environment.
(49:50):
Yeah, and it's like at thatpoint it's like you need to
Start reaching out to HR, butalso remembering that HR is kind
of set up to help the company.
You know what I mean.
Um, but, um, and, and you knowjust kind of, maybe it's time to
get that plan in motion, to Gosome place on a new job?
Gina (50:14):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Well, adrian, this has been avery fun little chat it has,
yeah can you?
Tell um our listeners if theywant to follow you on any of
your social media, if you havesocial media or where they can
find you.
Um, let us know.
Let everyone know.
Yes.
Adrienne (50:33):
So I am mostly on instagram.
It's adrian ma parent, which ismy name, ad rie, and ma like
short for mother parent, par,emt, so adrian ma parent on
instagram.
That's where I'm mostly at.
Gina (50:51):
Okay, so if anyone wants to follow adrian or Slide in
your dms Ha.
Adrienne (51:01):
You go and get blocked with the quickness, don't even
bother.
Unless, it's something if you.
Gina (51:09):
I think our listeners are probably only gonna slide in
your dm If they have alegitimate question or if you
want to ask something for realof you.
But um, yeah, no, no, it's themeat.
Is the era of me too movement,so we're not doing any shady dm
slides.
Um, we don't promote those.
Um, so, yeah, so uh, we willput that in the show notes for
(51:33):
all of our listeners, and we arejust thrilled that you decided
to come on and share your.
What is it Tuesday evening withus?
Yeah, tuesday evenings.
Okay, Well, thank you so much.
I'm gonna go binge some marriedat first sight Just to appease
nicola, not because I reallylike it secretly.
No, I I'm like obsessed.
Okay, anyway, that's my story,I'm sticking to it.
(51:54):
Thank you so much for sharingyour evening with us and we will
talk to you soon.
Okay, bye.
Hey, circling back to Adrian, you were here All our
listeners who you are, whatyou're going to chat with us
about, where you're calling fromall the basic details that
everyone is dying to know aboutyou, adrian.
Adrienne (00:14):
Well, okay, so I'm Adrian Farr.
We're talking about the ToxicWorkplace, toxic Work
Environments, and I have hadseveral, and I'm calling in from
New York, woo-oo.
New York in the house, new Yorkin the house and I'm a writer
and editor.
But I've been in so manydifferent industries.
(00:35):
My very first job out ofcollege was as an administrative
assistant in a Fortune 500advertising firm.
I've done acting.
I've done independent film andindependent.
I don't know if there's suchthing as independent television,
but television like behind thescenes, like the production
coordinator, production manager,stuff I've done.
(00:56):
I've taught kids at afterschool services programs and the
last 10 to 12 years I've beenwriting and editing and magazine
publishing.
Gina (01:10):
That's fine Well yes, okay , so take us on a journey.
What was you want?
To?
Tell us a little bit about someof your most toxic workplaces,
and then we can figure out howmaybe we could have done things
differently.
Or let's just see where ourjourney takes us.
Adrienne (01:28):
Adrienne, let's see where our journey takes us.
Okay, so right.
The first job and it's like itgets murky which one came first,
which one came second.
But these were in my late 20sand the first crazy experience
that I had was at an advertisingagency.
(01:49):
Not the one that I got rightafter I graduated from school,
it was like I was in betweenjobs.
It was probably right after,actually, 9-11, which has just
passed us and I was trying toget because I had been acting
for a while and I wasn't makingany money and I was trying to
get back into advertising, whichyou know, when you leave a
(02:11):
field, it's kind of hard to getback in when you've been going
for a few years.
So I ended up getting thisadvertising job that I do not
even remember how I found outabout it, but it was basically
three employees besides myselfthe owner of the company, his
wife and then this woman is thebest way I can describe her just
(02:35):
this woman who worked there.
Gina (02:37):
What did she do there.
Adrienne (02:39):
What did?
Gina (02:39):
the woman do there.
Adrienne (02:42):
She was sort of like in an admin position.
She was very quiet, very meekand I don't have any evidence,
but I think that I'm sure thatshe was getting some abusive
language from the boss.
Because eventually, whathappened was I was only there
(03:07):
for like two weeks and Iremember speaking to this guy on
the phone because I'm trying todo like you know, call in.
You know he wanted me to changesome ads around and you know
somebody couldn't run something.
They're called make goods, sowhen you can't run something,
the client calls you and is likeokay, well, we could put it
(03:28):
here.
It has the same rating.
So that kind of thing was goingon.
And so I was doing myprofessional Adrian advertising
stuff.
And the guy on the phone waslike wait, did you get a real
advertising company before?
And I'm like what do you meanreal?
Isn't this a real advertisingcompany?
Well, yeah, I did.
(03:49):
And then he's like you are waytoo nice and professional to be
there.
He's like I give you two weeks.
I give you two weeks.
What did you think when he saidthat?
I was just like why are yousaying this?
He was like just trust me, Igive you no more than two weeks
in this place and I lasted liketwo weeks because the guy who
(04:09):
ran the place was nuts.
He was literally he would likedance, crazy dances.
And then I just was at my deskand I heard him screaming and
cursing at this woman who Ididn't know was his wife at the
time I found out sometime withinthe two weeks that it was his
wife but I mean like cursing herout, calling her stupid bitch
(04:33):
and all of this, and why did youthis and why did you that?
Oh yeah, and it was not onlysomething I think that she had
done at work, but then itsomehow morphed into a
conversation about, like whatwas going on at home.
And I mean it was just like Iwas just like what the entire
hell is going on here.
(04:53):
He never spoke to me like that,but I'm also somebody who is
like don't, can you curse onthis?
Gina (05:00):
Fuck yeah.
Adrienne (05:03):
So I'm always.
I'm also like that person,don't fuck around and find out.
I have that kind of energy.
Nicola (05:11):
So there is a there is an Australian saying that says
we're not here to fuck spiders.
Adrienne (05:17):
I don't.
What does that mean?
I don't get it.
Nicola (05:20):
You know questions we all have have no answers to.
But, in summary, what it meansis like we're not here to fuck
around.
We are here to get shit done.
We're not here to fuck spiders.
Gina (05:34):
Okay, got it, thank you, australia, thank you, thank you,
yeah, so anyway, I get thatenergy.
Like I get that energy, adrian,because before I moved down
here to Florida, I was living inHarlem and this guy was like,
was like nobody ever fucks withyou.
And I was like, yeah, I knowhe's like, he's like you.
(05:55):
You, it's like one of thoseguys you know living in Harlem.
There's always like a couple ofolder guys who are always like
out on the stoop, kind of likethey'd been there in their, in
their either their Brownstone ortheir apartment for like 30
years or something insane, likeinsanely long.
And there was this one guy thatwas like I see you, nobody
fucks with you.
And I was like that's right.
Adrienne (06:15):
So I get that energy like give me a break, so anyway,
so that's just.
That's really it in a nutshell.
There was no reason for me tostay there.
It was crazy and I just decidedto leave.
And one I had one conversationwith the, with the woman that
was an admin, where she was likeI hate this place, I just want
(06:37):
to get out.
But it was sort of like I thinkshe was there because she felt
like she had to be in.
Nobody else would hire her.
So after I left, I found outabout a position and I called
her to tell her and she actedlike she did not even know me.
This was like a week and a halflater.
What?
Nicola (06:55):
the hell.
Adrienne (06:56):
I know I get the.
I was like hi, so remember,when we were talking yeah, and
then it was like it was justlike one word answers, but I
think the guy might have beenstanding right next to her so I
was like, well, okay, goodbye,click.
I just never like that you haveno idea.
Gina (07:13):
She just disappeared like a part in the wind.
Adrienne (07:16):
I don't even know what happened.
Gina (07:20):
So what was the final straw?
That you were like if thisplace, I'm not coming?
Adrienne (07:24):
back.
Well that.
And then he paraded in one daywith some young girl and he like
had her by the hand, taking herall I don't know what he was
showing her.
He was like showing her theoffice, but I'm like he's
holding her hand, he's, like youknow, bouncing around, like
he's just so happy to be in herpresence, and I'm like, wait,
(07:44):
doesn't his wife?
Like, isn't his wife in thatoffice right there?
It was just enough, it wasenough.
And the only one thing he saidto me one time is I was eating
lunch after like the normallunch hours.
It was like maybe two o'clockand I was hungry, I hadn't eaten
, and so I got lunch and he'slike you know, I thought I saw
(08:05):
you eating before and I'm like,yeah, no, you didn't see me
eating before.
Gina (08:10):
Who cares.
Adrienne (08:10):
Well, it's after lunchtime, and then I'm like
well, I'm hungry now.
And then he said you know, youseemed really nice in the
interview.
Like I guess he thought that hewas going to be able to, like,
you know, treat me as a reallynice in the interview, but
you're not really who you seem.
And I'm like well, neither areyou.
Gina (08:31):
Oh my God, I love this exchange, that's hilarious.
Adrienne (08:34):
Oh yeah, that was it.
I don't even remember.
If I told him I was leaving, Icertainly did not give a two
week notice.
Hell, no, no.
So I just no-transcript.
Gina (08:45):
So you just left.
Okay, so that was your firsttouch with toxicity, which
brings us to your next.
I have a feeling it's gonna getworse before it gets better.
Nicola (08:55):
I feel like all of this is getting worse.
Adrienne (08:58):
Yeah, they're all kind of bad.
So they were this other place,this architectural firm that I
worked at, I mean, you know itwas.
I guess the first place was alittle worse than this.
This place was kind of likethis guy's name was on the door,
his wife was a doll, his wifeworked there as well, but he
just would every interactionwith someone would be yelling,
(09:20):
would be cursing.
He didn't know how to speak toanyone.
I actually screamed at him onetime because he was in a meeting
with a whole bunch of mucketymucks and it was right behind my
desk because I sat like in theopen because at this time I was
just trying to buy my house.
I was trying to like get enoughmoney to buy my house.
So I went back to being anexecutive assistant and so my
(09:44):
desk was like right in the frontand he was like he asked me to
call someone for him.
So I'm on the phone, I'mspeaking with the person to like
get me in touch with the personand he's screaming from the
conference room a name, like tosay and you know cause I was
saying, oh, this is such andsuch a person and he wanted so
(10:06):
badly for me to say the name ofthe other muckety muck that was
in the room.
He's like screaming at me andI'm trying to take in what he's
saying.
Take in what the person on thephone is saying.
It turned around.
I was like, oh my God, crazy.
So then later that day he hadlike a wingman, his you know,
(10:27):
head person, that was thoroughlyabused and I heard them behind
me talking about like how he wasgonna fire me and you know, I
was just gonna tell her to walkout the door and leave and never
come back, and but and then,and then the other guy was just
like okay, calm down, calm down,I don't sit in there, like you
(10:48):
know, whatever.
But anyway, this was after somuch had happened.
I was there for over a year andthis the young lady who used to
work with me left and likethere were temps after her
because he was just so like hewas known for that, known for,
you know, just talking down topeople and treating people
really badly.
And also there was like abathroom in the middle of the
(11:11):
office where he would go andlike blow it up and like just
walk out with the door open, youknow, like you know, wiping his
hands after he washed them andlike the stench was, I'm just
like.
Nicola (11:25):
Oh my God, it was a podcast.
Hold on.
Has this podcast turned intopoop talk?
Do we need to rename thepodcast?
Gina (11:36):
I feel like it's possible.
We have talked about poop talk.
We've had like poop discussionsfor the last like Podcasts in a
row.
Nicola (11:42):
We've spoken about poop, really.
Gina (11:45):
I'm like is this?
Yeah, like somehow come up inlike some part, oh my, God yeah,
so hold on.
Nicola (11:50):
So this guy's going to the bathroom.
Like I need more details.
Like are we listening?
Like can we hear the?
You know?
Are you sitting in your cubicleand you're hearing?
Like Roar.
Adrienne (12:03):
I was like I didn't hear the roar, I didn't hear
like the farts or anything but.
Nicola (12:10):
Oh, baby Jesus, come out of me Satan.
Adrienne (12:14):
My back would go to him, so he would like have to
walk.
So sometimes I wouldn't evenknow that he was in the bathroom
until I smelled it, and so thenI would turn around.
Oh my God, how close is that,how close is this?
Okay, let me set the scene soit's the door to come in, it's
my desk and then the desk of theother executive assistant
(12:35):
behind me.
Then there's like a littlehallway, the conference room,
and then like a wall.
So on the other side of thewall was the bathroom.
It's not like it was in myimmediate area.
Gina (12:50):
It was like oh my God, that's even worse Cause it was
that like Stenture-ific that, ohmy God.
Oh, was this like?
Did people in the office talkabout it?
No, nobody.
And this is the-.
I would have been like, I wouldhave been the first to be like
what is that horrible smell?
Adrienne (13:11):
I mean, at least they didn't talk to me about it.
But this is the like when youwork in a toxic workplace you
don't even know who to trust.
Gina (13:19):
You know what I mean.
Adrienne (13:20):
You don't know who to go back and say something.
So nobody ever said anything tome.
I don't, and I never saidanything to anybody else.
So I think we all I don't evenknow the poor people that were,
cause there was like a wholeoffice of people right in front
and around the bathroom, so Idon't even know what they were
(13:40):
smelling.
If I was smelling that, so Imean it, just yeah.
Gina (13:51):
I knew you, you okay, All right.
So he was like just abusive toyour he was abusive.
Adrienne (13:59):
He was abusive.
I think there was one personthere that I remember coming up
in a conversation one or twopeople that he didn't talk to
like that.
Gina (14:11):
And were they her peers or were they like no they weren't
his peers, but they were.
Adrienne (14:16):
They were like top level.
They weren't his peers, butthey were definitely top level.
Gina (14:20):
Well, that makes sense, cause you can't really abuse,
you can't bite the hand that'sbeing abused Cause he abused
some other top level.
Adrienne (14:26):
You don't want to bite that hand.
It's being pooped on.
Yeah, no, you don't.
Maybe they.
Maybe maybe he had some levelof respect for them.
I mean, I don't know.
Yeah.
Gina (14:36):
Yeah.
Adrienne (14:38):
I don't know.
Gina (14:39):
And so how long did you last there?
Adrienne (14:41):
I lasted there for over a year because again, I
wanted to buy a house.
I needed that salary, I neededthat.
So did you buy the house?
I did.
I did eventually end up buyingthe house, and I think not soon
after I bought the house.
I couldn't take that placeanymore and I ended up here.
Gina (15:01):
I feel like I'm out of here, yeah.
Adrienne (15:04):
So that's where did you.
Gina (15:05):
Where did you find yourself next?
Adrienne (15:07):
Oh my gosh.
So the next place was acustomer service.
I was a customer servicemanager at.
Like this upscale furnitureplace.
Oh wait, I remember youmentioned this Day one.
What?
Nicola (15:26):
I'm so excited already.
Gina (15:29):
Okay, was it like?
Was it like a national chain,or was it like a fruit and a?
Adrienne (15:34):
boutique in Manhattan.
It was a very boutique.
You know like in Manhattan youcan walk into these fancy places
where a pillow is $1,000 or howmuch is it?
Gina (15:44):
Yeah, so it was like that it was like that.
Adrienne (15:46):
And so day one my manager is training me, she
starts bawling, crying.
Day one, she's like bawling,crying, there was this stack of
papers on my desk, in my inbox.
I don't even know who the hellwas there before me, but whoever
(16:09):
it was had left this work, andso I was like, okay, well, I'll
go through this.
She's like okay, I'll gothrough it with you, because
obviously it was day one, Ididn't really know what to do.
And so, as she's going throughit, like she has other work to
do and I guess maybe I wasasking too many questions and
it's like she couldn't bottle inher emotions anymore and she
literally just lost it andstarted bawling and like I have
(16:32):
to go and do it.
And I'm just like, oh my gosh,like what in the hell am I
getting into?
But I found out very quicklyand, by the way, the boss at
that place not the person whoowned the place, he was very
cool, that guy was very cool,but he wasn't I didn't work with
him a lot but the person thatwas like the CEO or the COO,
(16:54):
whatever the hell I found outthat she actually got ousted
from her last job because shewas so mean.
The entire staff bandedtogether and was like if she
does not go, we are all leaving.
Gina (17:13):
We're all going that's crazy.
And so then they hired her atyour this new place.
Yeah, yeah, so did you have todeal with her.
Adrienne (17:23):
Oh, I dealt with her on a daily basis.
She was mean, she was snippy,she, I mean, she would just
stand there and she would yellat people.
She, I mean, it was just, shewas so nasty.
But you know, what these threeplaces have in common is that
they were not considered likeFortune 500, corporate America
Mind you, those jobs definitelyhave their issues too, but there
(17:47):
was like no ramifications, youknow Like.
So the place that Adversariesand Agents, he had no HR.
The second place did have an HR, but it was still like his name
was on the door and it was verymuch like you were walking into
his home and this place had noHR.
You know what I mean?
It was just very kinds of likeI'm starting this company, it
(18:09):
got big and it's like, you know,it's sort of like you're
walking into their house andthey feel like they don't have
to abide by a certain level ofrules.
Gina (18:19):
Right, cause there's really no like checks and
balances, which you do have inlike a huge company, Like there
will be ramifications, there areperformance reviews, and in a
smaller company, there'stypically no.
I mean performance reviews.
I mean I don't-.
Adrienne (18:34):
I mean there's supposed to be.
I'm sure that's supposed to befollowing some kind of
guidelines, and perhaps therewere some kind of guidelines
being followed, but you know,that kind of it just was.
It was just toxic, it wasabusive.
There was this one lady therethat she would be crying all the
time too, because she was like,oh, she just is so
disrespectful, she treats melike crap, and I mean it was
(18:56):
just absolutely.
I remember one time once again,cause I guess I have that look
like just please don't mess withme.
But she said to me like in themiddle of a conversation, oh
goodness.
And once she told me and thisother lady, you know there's no
talking here and we I'm sorry,what?
Gina (19:15):
There's no talking at a place of work.
No talking here.
Adrienne (19:18):
And we were literally talking about the copy machine,
Like I think we were asking eachother oh, are these your copies
?
Or something like that.
And it's not that we were loud,we were just like talking.
And she literally comes out ofher office there's no talking
here Just like is she mad, Isshe serious?
Yeah, that's crazy.
So, anyway, one time she said tome you know, you look at me
(19:38):
like you think I'm stupid.
Like well, yeah, you know,you're like, wow, well, I'm not
wrong.
Yeah, I'm not wrong exactly,and I just, of course, I said
something professional, becausethe one thing I never am is
unprofessional.
There is nobody anywhere that Ihave ever worked for that can
claim unprofession.
(19:59):
I will go back as far aspossible.
That is never me so, and I'mnever disrespectful or rude
either, you know, but it's justthis thing where, like I am, so
not the one, but and it was ashame because you know, there
were people there spending tensof thousands of dollars on
(20:21):
furniture and if somethinghappened with them because it
was like a man beingmanufactured so fast that the
quality started to suffer, andso they would get these
expensive pieces in their homeand stuff would happen to them a
leg would break, like thefinish on top would be
compromised, and I'm trying toreally figure out how to help
them and it would literally belike she would come into my
(20:45):
office and the other managerwould literally be like, okay,
well, they had it in the sun andthey shouldn't have had their
blinds open.
So you can tell them that that,like it, would be trying to
figure out how it was theirfault.
Which is it was-.
Yeah, user error.
Yeah, yep, and it wasunfortunate because I always,
(21:06):
when I left that place, I gotlaid off of there.
No, kidding, and-.
Gina (21:12):
I love your attitude about it.
You're like whatever.
Adrienne (21:15):
Yeah, I wasn't so and I was.
So I was so happy when shecalled me and then laid me off
and she even said to me I said,well, you know, that's fine, she
was waiting for me, I guess, tohave some sad reaction.
I was like, well, you know,I'll find another job.
She's like I've never seenanybody so happy to be laid off.
Like girl, did you work here?
Yeah, that's fine.
We were having two differentexperiences.
(21:38):
Yes, I always wish that I wouldhave written the owner a note
to tell him exact cause I don'tknow if he knew exactly what was
going on.
Probably not.
I don't think he did, but yeah,no, Is that place still in
business?
(21:58):
I don't I try to find them.
I literally recently, well likewithin the past year or so
Googled their name and I'm notseeing any thing.
Gina (22:09):
Yeah, so they're probably out of business.
Yeah, yeah, maybe, but alsoCOVID and everything.
Adrienne (22:14):
It got really rough for a lot of people.
Gina (22:16):
It did, it did.
Yeah, that's true, All right.
So what was your next place?
That was a total shit show.
Adrienne (22:25):
Then my next place was just sort of corporate America
job.
So I entered back intocorporate America, corporate
America, and there's just aseries of situations that
happened.
I mean, see, in corporateAmerica you have to be very
(22:46):
careful.
Some people are like I've heardstories from friends that are
coworkers, where people wereblatantly disrespectful,
blatantly racist, blatantly rude.
But it's more of a situationwhere you're you can tell you're
purposely being held backbecause they don't want you
(23:09):
elevating into a certainposition which is very toxic,
because you're doing all thiswork and your work is good, but
somehow you keep getting passedup for the promotion.
All right, there were timeswhere I would go to my boss and
ask for additional work and myreviews would be glowing and
(23:30):
wonderful, but for some reason Iwould never get them.
And then, in one place that Iworked specifically, it was very
strange because it would belike, all of a sudden, people
who weren't my manager or likemy direct reporter, who I wasn't
directly reporting into, wouldhave all this information about
my position.
(23:51):
That, like they're now comingto tell me okay, we're not doing
this anymore, we're doing thisnow.
And I'd be like, why are youtelling me?
I mean, the person would be astep above me, but I didn't
report him to them.
So that's like not the org chart, like you're not supposed to be
(24:12):
following me, but there wassome backdoor shenanigans going
on which eventually I was laidoff from that position as well.
So there's many things.
I mean I went through atakeover where all of the legacy
employees were let go and therewas some nefarious stuff going
(24:35):
on with our severance and it'sjust.
It's very difficult to get intospecifics with those situations
, but again, it was just thistoxic corporate environment
where people kind of knew thatthey could do certain things,
they kind of knew how to skirtthe rules and yeah, yeah, okay
(25:02):
so I think, sorry, just to say,specifically speaking about
diversity and inclusion.
So diversity and inclusionexploded after George Floyd was
murdered and it's like everycompany wanted to figure out how
to be more diverse, cause itwas sort of like in their face
now, cause, you know, blackpeople have been saying since
(25:24):
the dawn of time that this ishow we were being treated, and
it wasn't until, like you sawthe foot in his neck that people
were like oh, I guess thisreally is happening.
And so there was a push to kindof understand the plight, and
that was amazing.
But then it was first someplaces we, I know were black
(25:49):
people or people of color werebeing asked to like go above and
beyond, to teach, to likeinform, and not being
compensated for all this extrawork that we were doing with,
like you know, programming andjust all this stuff.
And then it kind of was likeokay, well, that happened,
(26:11):
that's over, now we can go backto how we used to be.
And so that is also very toxic,because it's like, okay, who do
we go to if we have a problem?
Can we really go to HR and talk?
Is anything really gonna bedone about it?
So All of that, all of that,all of that will be very toxic
(26:33):
workplaces.
Gina (26:35):
Okay.
So I think corporate America is, it's so like fucked because
there's like no, there's oftenno work-life balance.
It's, you know, the gears ofchange move very slowly.
There's a lot of passing thebuck, like, oh well, you got to
(26:57):
ask this person.
That person's like, oh no, yougot to ask this person.
Or you know, there's no way toget like firm answers.
Adrienne (27:03):
A lot of the time we put your name in for a promotion
but like it's getting stopped.
That was one of the mostmaddening things that myself and
a lot of coworkers went through, where you would be up for a
promotion but then thepromotions would be freeze,
would be frozen.
Gina (27:22):
Or they still didn't Right or like oh no, we're not
actually hiring for that anymore.
Or there would be tons ofexcuses, like even they do it
even in hiring process, justlike giving your application.
Then you hear back from themlike seven months later and
they're like we decided we don'treally need this position
(27:42):
filled.
And you're like it's like forCFO or something and you're like
, oh okay, like you're justtaking CFO or CEO or COO like
off the table because we justdon't need it.
We probably like gave all ofthose responsibilities to
another employee, like okay.
Adrienne (27:59):
That's what would happen, like so you would let go
of someone, you would get thatlarge salary back and then never
rehire.
So then Right, because theywould like spread it out.
Gina (28:09):
Yeah, yes, that's called.
What is that quiet hiring?
Adrienne (28:12):
Then quiet hiring, I'm not even sure, but I know that
it's like then you would hearalready working like the
work-life balance is it did notexist.
That's why New York is tryingto get, and, like these
companies are trying to getpeople to come back off of
remote work.
Like good luck, okay, becauselike please, you know, like four
hour round trip commutes, threehour round trip commutes.
(28:34):
No, it's ridiculous, that's it.
I don't think so.
Yeah, it's crazy.
And the hours sometimesmidnight, sometimes 9 pm,
weekends, it's just it's Wow.
Gina (28:49):
It's great and I do think that's very specific to America.
I don't think many othercountries are cool with that.
You know, like sometimes I'llbe working with like a company
that's located in like the UK orwhatever, and it's like I'll
send an email back and then I'llget a bounce back.
That's like I'm on my annualleave for like the next two
(29:11):
weeks and you're like what is anannual leave?
How do I get one?
Like it's ridiculous.
So I mean, I do think it isvery specific to America.
So I think, yes, like there are.
I haven't been in like I workwith corporate America, but I
don't work in it.
So I don't really know whatthat looks like anymore, cause
(29:35):
I've been out of working withlike in a corporate, like a big
corporate America company.
I'm just a vendor now, so Idon't even know what that looks
like anymore, you know.
Adrienne (29:47):
Like not good.
Gina (29:48):
Not good.
Adrienne (29:49):
No, it's the same, it's.
I mean, you feel that there isthis atmosphere of feeling bad
to take a day off and even whenyou take time off, you're still
like like you'll send out themessage but I'll be checking
sporadically, Like you're stillkind of expected to still check
in, not go totally out,especially the higher up the
(30:11):
totem pole you get.
There's like to be on vacationand completely off where nobody
can get in.
Contact you with you is rare.
That is an anomaly.
Gina (30:22):
Yes, so I mean, I own the company that I work for now, so
I really don't.
That's different, though, causeI really don't get like I the
buck stops with me, so I don'treally get that, but also like
I'm able to decide how much Iwant to work every day, right,
so there's like an upside, soit's different, but with
(30:43):
corporate America, yeah, it'slike, nicola, you experienced
that Like, even though weweren't really in a corporate
company, like a super corporatecompany, they borrowed the
shitty things from corporateAmerica.
Nicola (30:56):
It was so bad.
You yeah yeah, it was so badand I was like what the fuck?
But then, okay, so in NewZealand and it's going to be a
different podcast altogether,but in New Zealand we do have
some American style companiesthat have worked out how to
contract out of our legalobligations that we have in
(31:18):
place to keep people, I want tosay, safe, right.
So we've got health and safetylaws, we've got employment laws,
we've got holiday act laws.
You know, we've got shit inplace to make sure that people
have the space and the time thatthey need to recoup from work.
We've got very specific, youknow, things around how long you
(31:41):
can work for Carnity leave.
Adrienne (31:44):
Isn't your maternity leave really long?
Nicola (31:47):
No, it was when I had my son 10 years ago.
It was 16 weeks, I think.
Now it's 26.
They're looking at maybe makingit a year.
I'm not sure We'll see wherewe're about.
We get what we get 90 days.
You don't get any days, girl.
I remember that I had to go andjust do it.
You get a $25,000 bill for onebaby.
Gina (32:08):
We do in.
Adrienne (32:08):
America.
No, it's way more than that.
To have a baby in America islike way, way more than that.
Like you, better have insurance.
Gina (32:17):
Well, yeah, but what we have to pay for just differs
based on everyone's insurance.
Like I don't, what if I haveinsurance?
No, in America you have to haveinsurance or else you get
penalized on your taxes.
So it's a real clusterfuck,right?
We're going down a differentroute now.
Oh my God, why America?
We have to pay for our clients,okay just explain it, Everybody
(32:40):
come on.
Come on, everybody, comeeverybody.
So we have to pay for our ownhealth care, right?
Whether that's through ouremployer or through you know
you're paying it out of pocket,right?
So even then, sometimes, likewhen I was self-insured
(33:01):
previously, I was paying closeto two grand a month just to
have basic health insurance,just for me.
Sorry, two grand a month, yes,yep, are you fucking kidding me?
No, and I am young, I'm in goodhealth, like, yeah, exactly, we
have really taken God not downon a tangent, but but this is
(33:24):
part of toxic work, because itis especially in America.
Adrienne (33:28):
Yeah, because you, literally, there is a friend of
mine who literally had to figureout.
This job that she was gettingwas an enormous bump in salary,
like I'm talking like $20,000,$30,000 more, but the health
insurance was so expensive.
She had to literally figure outis it better for me to just
(33:52):
stay where I am and be unhappyor to go to this other place and
like change everything that I'mfamiliar with at this other job
and, like you know, have alittle bit more extra income but
like most of it is going to payfor health insurance.
It's nice.
Gina (34:13):
Yeah, no, I get it.
So I think it is part of theAmerican corporate sort of
toxicity it's just kind of builtin to.
And then of course that opensup the whole thing.
Like you know, okay, what ifyou really like, what if you're
in a really shitty position?
You know, and you're not goingto get fired, but you know
you're kids sick and you needthat insurance and you're like
(34:34):
really being abused.
It's like or being bullied orwhatever.
It's like you're going to stayat that workplace to get the
health insurance you know, soit's just granted.
Hopefully that doesn't happenthat often, but you hear these
stories probably more often thanwe want to admit that.
You know they're just beingtaken advantage of, but they
(34:55):
have to stay because of healthinsurance or whatever.
This is horrible, it is.
It's kind of used as it'salmost like I was going to say
it's weaponized.
It's weaponized healthcare.
It can be, and I don'tnecessarily know if I don't know
who's to blame there, if it'scorporate America or if it's the
health insurance industry inAmerica as a whole 110% the
(35:19):
insurance companies.
I mean.
Adrienne (35:23):
I mean not that I know for sure, but that is my belief
.
Yeah, I think insurance as awhole homeowners insurance, car
insurance, life insurance I mean, think about it you constantly
are paying into these things andthen, when you need them maybe
minus health insurance, but likecar insurance and maybe health
(35:44):
insurance too, but lifeinsurance you're paying into all
of this stuff and when you needit it's like it's like the
furniture company you put it inthe light, it's not covered
right yeah, exactly Exactly, oryou find every reason to deny
you it goes up, or it goes upLike if they have to pay out for
(36:04):
something, then they're gettingtheir money back somehow,
somehow, because the premium isgoing to go up.
Gina (36:10):
But also I feel like it's the most ridiculous regulated
Ponzi scheme of all schemes.
Oh well, absolutely, becauseit's like you're paying into
this and then they're using yourpayments to pay everyone else's
and pocket some.
It's just, it's like aregulated Ponzi scheme that
happens to be legal.
Okay, rant over, all right.
(36:34):
So where do you end up next,adrienne, give us the good that
was it.
Adrienne (36:40):
That is the list of my toxic work environments.
There's, of course, otherthings that I've seen and all
that, but that kind of do youthink I need?
Do you think I need any moretorture?
Gina (36:58):
No, but I know, when you originally wrote in to be on the
show, you mentioned that youwere working in TV and I think,
because now we're hearing a lotmore about like Jimmy Fallon is
now being called out for toxicworkplace practices.
You know, lizzo, she'sentertainment on TV.
Nicola (37:18):
Oh the Lizzo.
One just is a king.
My brain sells.
Gina (37:22):
So people are now reacting to her Instagram because her
Instagram is highly sexualizedand that's her decision.
You don't have to follow her, ifyou don't want to, but I think
in light of the allegations it'sa little tacky, like maybe just
tone it down, just a little bitBody positivity, all for it.
But kind of like read the room,like maybe now, now's not the
(37:45):
right time to be twerking inyour thong in the middle of like
a ginormous mansion, you know.
But yeah, do you have anything?
Just because we know you didwork in the entertainment, you
know industry, do you haveanything to share about that?
Adrienne (37:59):
in general, Well, I mean.
So again, it does bring to minda situation where I was kind of
, I guess, sexually abused.
I'm not laughing at that, I'mjust laughing because it's, you
(38:22):
know, it's such a shame becauseI think during that time there's
just certain, a certainworkplace culture within that
industry that sometimes was sostatus quo that you didn't even
was abuse, if that makes sense.
Gina (38:42):
But it does, because I like that and I think we've
talked about this before.
You know, back in, like the,the, the early the late 90s,
early 2000s, when I was justcoming into corporate America
from college, there wasabsolutely a level of sexual
sexualization, sexual harassment, that was still somewhat
(39:03):
acceptable in corporate America.
Being, you know, being a young,in my case, semi attractive
female, you know, we got, I gotit a lot and so did some of my
coworkers, but it was just kindof like oh, it's a corporate
America and I was working onWall Street, so it's like
corporate America, you know,this is, it's to be expected.
Adrienne (39:24):
Like boys will be boys .
Yeah, that is very much likewhat it was, and I'm literally
just remembering when I did likethis freelance stint working
with this director in the office.
It was kind of like admin typestuff.
It was a it a semi popularmovie, and he was coming on to
(39:50):
me hard, I mean, at the copymachine, like he took me out and
it just was very, when I lookback on it, it was it was just
not right.
Like I was so young and this iswhat's sad about it is that
people will say, well, whydidn't you do this?
(40:10):
Why didn't you do that?
You have to understand people.
You're so young.
Like when you're in your 20seven if it's your late 20s, that
is like night and day, comparedto like when you're in your mid
to late 40s, it's absolutely.
And so I was so young and Ididn't even realize that that is
(40:31):
literally considered sexualabuse.
What he was doing, like youknow, rubbing it to me, eating
me out to lunch, trying to kissme, you know I just was to me,
it was like a man that wasattracted to me, you know, and I
could kind of like this is whatyou have to put up with.
But yeah, and it was just it'sjust really sad that that's how,
(40:52):
like we were kind of programmedto think, and now it's like I
hope, I hope it's zero tolerance.
It seems now to be like moreout there, like you cannot do
this, whereas back then in theearly 2000s, it wasn't.
Gina (41:07):
I mean, it was status it was what you said status quo,
like I expected that.
Like as a young person out ofcollege, I was like what?
21, 22?
I expected that.
And I had come from a situationand your story reminds me of
this I was a receptionist, likein my high school, like summer,
(41:28):
I'm sorry, in college, inbetween semesters I would come
home and live with my mom anddad.
And I got a job once becauseyou know, I was taking some time
off and it was at thischiropractors office and I maybe
was 20, maybe 21 max, and thiswas like a 40 something year old
chiropractor single.
He started sending me flowers,he took me out to dinner and my
(41:55):
mom and blessed, like this isnot her fault, she's, she co
signed it.
She's like, oh, maybe you'llmarry a doctor.
Yeah, but you have to understand.
This was like in like 1999,2000, maybe max, and so.
So it was kind of like like wewould joke about it and I'd be
(42:16):
like wait.
And I was so naive, adrian, I Ihad to ask him wait, do you
like me?
Like romantically, I thought hewas just being nice and my mom
kind of co-signed it, you knowwith.
I don't she wasn't doing itmaliciously, but I think that
was just the zeitgeist, it'slike you know.
(42:38):
So I get that.
So then, going from thatexperience, and I went back to
college eventually and hestarted Sending me flowers at
college and then finally I waslike, yeah, I don't like this,
I'm not responding to himanymore, but um, but I think it
just illustrates your point likethis was normal for us in the
early 2000s and if that happensto me today, I'd be like why are
(43:00):
you send?
I'd be like why are you sendingme flowers?
Quit it like, stop it well.
Nicola (43:06):
So when I worked in Thailand circa 2009, which isn't
1999, just to be clear Um,because I was working in like a
male dominated industry, Iremember very clearly going to a
presentation where I wasexplaining, kind of, where the
gaps were with regards to ourhealth and safety issues that we
(43:29):
were facing, and it was a roomfull of men.
I was the only woman there andI dressed up for Presenting you
know, presenting a meeting.
I wasn't right, we're zenting,though, you know, I was just
like wearing a nice.
Gina (43:43):
You're such a dork, but you know like I'm not there
flashing my tits.
Nicola (43:50):
I'm there wearing a long skirt and like a work shirt.
You know, like my tits on out,my ass isn't out.
And Halfway through the meetingthis man stood up and it was
not a huge boardroom, but herubbed his very erect penis
right across my ass while I waspresenting.
Gina (44:12):
Did everyone see it?
Yes, so just like, do somethingsuper sexually inappropriate in
front of everyone, maybe, maybethey'll let you go?
Yeah, that's so sad.
Okay, so so was so.
When you had your like, whenyou are working for this in the
entertainment industry, was itaround that same time period
(44:33):
that the sexual harassment orabuse, but however you want to
refer to it, that's, I feel likethat's a personal decision.
Yeah, that was.
That was in that time frame.
Adrienne (44:44):
Yeah, it was all in that time frame.
But what I will say is, likethe sort of staff positions that
I had at this one productioncompany I mean there I once
again it was like one of theowners was very like.
He kind of talked down toeverybody, cursed a lot, he had
an assistant director that hewould curse out a lot and
(45:06):
everything.
I never he never did that to me, but he I saw him do it to a
lot of other people.
But the other partners in theplace were very nice.
I never kind of really ran intoany Problems working at that
production company.
Besides, see, it's so weirdbecause it's like I did see this
kind of behavior and it wasvery toxic.
(45:27):
So even though it wasn'thappening to me, I should still
recognize that as a problem.
Gina (45:32):
That is a problem, yeah.
Adrienne (45:34):
Yeah, but yeah, exactly, it doesn't matter that
it didn't happen to me, it's aproblem.
So there was that, but yeah,that was that was it, though
those two instances and thedirector that was, like you know
, propositioning me andeverything that was at a
completely different place, suretotally yeah.
Gina (45:55):
So, in conclusion, do you think you should, now that you
kind of were older and wiser now, which is what we've been
saying, like you know, when wewere 20 we would have been like
we were.
We were like, okay, this is,you know, status quo, standard,
just have to grin and bear itkind of thing.
Looking back now and knowingbeing older and wiser, do you
(46:17):
think you could have doneanything differently or picked
up on the red flag sooner?
I mean, it sounds like youpretty much knew, but maybe it
took you a while to get to thepoint where you were like I'm
out of here or you know.
Adrienne (46:32):
Yeah, I kind of just so.
I like right, I saw it.
But you know, sometimes youjust need a job and that's what
people in in certain places likeI was in that one place where I
was literally Going through theprocess of purchasing a house,
I needed to show study income, Ineeded to show my bank accounts
(46:56):
.
Every now and again They'd becalling me oh, let's get your
bank records for the next threemonths.
So it was like I mean I couldhave left, but then that would
have like derailed my whole bythe process.
So there's, there's those kindof things.
And then, you know, like I saidwith the Other thing, that was
like literally sexual abuse.
I didn't even realize it wassexual abuse.
(47:18):
Like if the meat movement didnot happen to this day, I don't
know that I would have calledthat sexual abuse, which is kind
of sad.
But um, but I think, like the,the telltale signs for like
thinking, like, just like thered flags is Actually I want to
(47:38):
like, because I'm not an expert.
But I want to just go through,like this article that I read.
That was really good.
It's a Forbes article and theyspoke to experts, which is what
you're supposed to be doing whenyou know like right, general,
but they were like, these werethe some of the things they came
they came up with.
If a toxic workplace is draininglike nobody should be drained,
(48:02):
just like with the thought ofgoing to work.
If it's Demotivating, you know,like if your ideas are not
being listened to and likenobody's trying to, like you
know, help you get to the nextlevel, that's a problem.
If there's a high turnover rate, which is one of the situations
that I was in, where people,like if people are constantly
(48:25):
leaving, that should tell yousomething.
If a workplace promotesunhealthy boundaries, which is
the working to midnight,expecting you to answer on the
weekend and all that stuff,that's unhealthy boundaries.
That's a toxic workplace.
Lacks transparency is veryimportant the whole thing, like
where you was saying past thebook so okay, what about my
(48:45):
promotion?
Oh well, it's stuck in HR withthis person and that person.
If people aren't beingtransparent about what's
happening or even what'shappening with the company in
terms of, like, the health ofthe company, financial health
and all of that, that's aproblem.
When there's low morale, whenit doesn't support professional
(49:07):
growth and, obviously, where itpermits like harassment and
bullying, those are likeObviously red flags, but like
some of the more subtle redflags, is like when you're being
ostracized, when you'restarting to like Not being
included in meeting that youused to be included in, all
those kinds of things.
That's all very toxic.
(49:27):
It doesn't have to be like asovert as like sexual abuse,
something like it's just, orlike constantly being told that
the raise you were Promised,like you were when you got, were
hired, it's like two or threepercent raises or five percent
raises every year.
Three years go by and you'venever gotten a raise.
But you're doing more work andthat's a toxic work environment.
(49:50):
Yeah, and it's like at thatpoint it's like you need to
Start reaching out to HR, butalso remembering that HR is kind
of set up to help the company.
You know what I mean.
Um, but, um, and, and you knowjust kind of, maybe it's time to
get that plan in motion, to Gosome place on a new job?
Gina (50:14):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Well, adrian, this has been avery fun little chat it has,
yeah can you?
Tell um our listeners if theywant to follow you on any of
your social media, if you havesocial media or where they can
find you.
Um, let us know.
Let everyone know.
Yes.
Adrienne (50:33):
So I am mostly on instagram.
It's adrian ma parent, which ismy name, ad rie, and ma like
short for mother parent, par,emt, so adrian ma parent on
instagram.
That's where I'm mostly at.
Gina (50:51):
Okay, so if anyone wants to follow adrian or Slide in
your dms Ha.
Adrienne (51:01):
You go and get blocked with the quickness, don't even
bother.
Unless, it's something if you.
Gina (51:09):
I think our listeners are probably only gonna slide in
your dm If they have alegitimate question or if you
want to ask something for realof you.
But um, yeah, no, no, it's themeat.
Is the era of me too movement,so we're not doing any shady dm
slides.
Um, we don't promote those.
Um, so, yeah, so uh, we willput that in the show notes for
(51:33):
all of our listeners, and we arejust thrilled that you decided
to come on and share your.
What is it Tuesday evening withus?
Yeah, tuesday evenings.
Okay, Well, thank you so much.
I'm gonna go binge some marriedat first sight Just to appease
nicola, not because I reallylike it secretly.
No, I I'm like obsessed.
Okay, anyway, that's my story,I'm sticking to it.
(51:54):
Thank you so much for sharingyour evening with us and we will
talk to you soon.
Okay, bye.
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