September 12, 2023 • 48 mins
Remember the first time you walked into a new job, bright-eyed and hopeful, only to find yourself in a toxic workplace? That sinking feeling is something we've all experienced at one point or another. In today's episode, we're tackling this head-on with our dynamic guest, Stew. We share a few laughs over our first encounter at a TEDx event and then dive straight into the deep end, confronting the challenges of workplace toxicity.
Stew brings a unique perspective to the table, one that's been shaped by his time in the military. As we navigate our way through the murky waters of toxic workplaces, he introduces us to the concept of values-based leadership, something he practiced while leading his unit. The anecdotes from his military career provide a refreshing look at how values can transform a workplace, even under the most stressful conditions. But it's not all about the military; Stew also opens up about his transition out of the army and how his personal values clashed with those of his new workplace.
In the final act, we switch gears to focus on a practical solution: transfo
Welcome to Season 2, where we embark on authentic and unfiltered conversations about life, relationships, society, and more. Our opinions are solely our own and don't represent professional advice. It's just our perspective, so form your conclusions. Heads up, this podcast may contain adult content and explicit language. Let's dive in!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicola (00:00):
So you're going to Stu.
However, I met Stu at theChetty Chetty Tittics thing,
Okay.
Gina (00:06):
He gave you didn't know him at all before that.
You met him first night, whenyou were dressed like a crazy
pirate I'm gonna say fat piratesfat pirates.
How does a fat pirate say arg,whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, ha, ha, ha, ha.
I told Lucia because, like Joeand I took her on a little like
(00:31):
fake pirate thing in FortLauderdale and I was like, and I
told her how to.
I was like, what is a piratesaying?
And she goes arg.
But since you are now sayingyou were dressed like a fat
pirate, it's ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,
ah, ah, ah.
It was just a poor wardrobechoice.
Next time you got to float itby me.
Nicola (00:53):
You know what next?
Next time Sure, sure, sure,sure.
Gina (00:57):
You're like there's not, guess what, there's not gonna be
a next time.
No, there might be, Okay.
So you met him at the TEDx.
Nicola (01:04):
Okay, so we met at the TEDx.
He was really interesting,super curious, really wanted to
talk about toxic workplaces andI was like he's so feisty, like
so Good morning, stu, how areyou.
Stew (01:22):
I'm very, very well how are you?
Nicola (01:25):
We're doing great this morning.
Stew (01:27):
Awesome it is, isn't it?
It's morning.
Nicola (01:30):
I know it's a little early, Geez, what are you doing
to us?
Stew (01:33):
Oh hey, I've been up for an hour and a half.
Nicola (01:36):
But anyway, it's so great to have you joining us.
We are very excited to have achat.
It was so lovely meeting you atthe Disrupt HR staff, so that
was pretty fun.
How did you find your sessionwent?
Stew (01:53):
I don't remember it, but yeah, because it's so different
to what I normally do, it was.
You know, my brain was engagedthe whole time, but then when I
watched the video back, Ithought, yeah, landed it,
that'll work.
So I'm really quite happy.
But I think the thing that Ireally enjoyed about the event
(02:13):
was getting to meet a wholebunch of people.
That's true.
Gina (02:16):
I don't think I've ever watched myself back on any
recording ever and thought, yeah, that was awesome.
I'm always like, oh my God, myeye, one eye is smaller than the
other, my eyebrows retarded.
Stew (02:27):
Like my hair.
Gina (02:30):
I think that's like a very like, like gender specific
thing, because a man can looklike a potato and be like I'm
such hot shit.
No, no, no, like I've alwayssaid this my whole life and like
a pretty girl can like look inthe mirror and be like I'm fat,
you know, I think it's just.
Stew (02:49):
I think we all do that.
I mean, the fortunate thingabout the Disrupt HR video was
that I was like a sort of dot inthe middle of a screen, miles
away.
What I was listening to was thecontent and how I was rolling
into it.
Nicola (03:01):
Yeah, it looked like a fat pirate.
It was great, oh, ok.
Stew (03:08):
I mean, I completely agree with you that and I think it's
all of us we automatically lookfor what's wrong rather than
what's right, and that'sactually a problem in society we
look for what's wrong ratherthan what's right, rather and
say, hey shit, I stood up onstage in front of a hundred and
blah people and spoke for fiveminutes in a format that I've
never done before.
(03:28):
Of course, I'm fucking awesome.
That's what we should be doing.
Nicola (03:33):
I think I blacked out, though I was so stressed that I
think I legitimately blacked out.
You did seem quite yeah.
Gina (03:43):
Oh my God, no, I didn't get that.
I just, I was annoyed at youroutfit more than anything else,
pirate.
I was like no, you can't havetwo voluminous things.
One has to be like skin huggingand one can be voluminous.
Nicola (04:00):
You've got to have both, but we would just earlier.
What sound does a fat piratemake?
I asked her.
I was like go.
Stew (04:12):
I don't know because.
Gina (04:13):
Yeah.
Stew (04:15):
There you are.
I think you've been a bit harshon yourself.
Gina (04:21):
Oh, of course, but that's like that's what we do.
So tell us, tell us yourrelation to having To wanting to
be on our toxic workplacepodcast.
And yeah, you are.
Stew (04:39):
It really fascinates me that we live in a world where we
talk about values all of thetime but very, very seldom live
to those values and that is thecause of an awful lot of toxic
pressure within within theworkplace.
And I've seen it yeah, I'veseen it throughout my military
(05:01):
career, I've seen it throughoutmy business career that when the
corporate world in the UK andin the US landed on, values and
standards is something that theBritish Army and the American
forces have introduced to dealwith bullying and that sort of
nature in their environment.
(05:21):
We've got to do the same andeveryone jumped onto this values
and it turned into let's stickfour words on a wall and tell
people that that's what we standfor, and it stopped Rather than
say again like
Gina (05:38):
high like hygiene value.
Stew (05:40):
Totally.
It's oh, we're going to do this, we're going to do that thing,
but then it stopped and you'rewhere, where we need to get.
I believe that and what I teachis that we've missed the next
two steps of creating a valuebased workplace, and that causes
a toxic culture.
(06:01):
And there are very, very simplethings that we can do.
When we can walk into anybusiness and see if there is an
underlying toxic culture and Ido it all of the time when I
walk into businesses I just go,oh right, I see, I know what I'm
dealing with, and we have tostep through that and step
(06:22):
through that so that we go backto what the purpose of the
values actually are.
So that's why I'm reallyexcited to be here today.
Thank you very much for havingme.
Second part of the question whoam I?
Well, hey, I'm Stu.
I was a wee boy in Scotlandjust as the great shipyards
began to close and I thoughtthere's a world out there.
(06:44):
So I went and explored it andI've been exploring the world
through my military career for25 years and we moved to New
Zealand 10 years ago and I'venever stopped exploring, because
I believe that the human soulis an unstoppable force and
society has said do you knowwhat?
We can't let you be anunstoppable force, because
(07:04):
that's too difficult to control.
It's like a hurricane.
Nicola (07:09):
You can't control a hurricane you can.
Gina (07:12):
As a person who has been described as a hurricane, I
don't agree with this at all,because when.
I set my mind to do something,that shit gets done.
Stew (07:22):
Yeah, it does, it does.
How many people do you meetlike that?
Yeah, there you go.
Gina (07:29):
No no, I, I, there are a few in my stable.
I would say Nicola is one ofthem.
I would say my friend Nathan isanother.
There's a few, but therethere's.
There's less of those type ofpeople than there are the fringe
type of people or the peoplewho are not like hurricanes,
(07:51):
like that's why Nicola and Iwork so well together.
Because I was like I have thisidea for this podcast.
She was like love it.
And then the next thing, youknow, we're just fucking doing
it.
So it's like you know, yeah,yeah.
Stew (08:04):
And you did it because you you stepped into three
particular areas that mostpeople ignore.
You said, look, fuck it, we'regoing to be unreasonable Cool,
let's get out there and beunreasonable, let's go and do
that thing.
And you chose to raise yourstandards.
But not just raise yourstandards.
You're raising the standards ofyour stable and the people
(08:25):
around about you.
And the third thing you did wasyou gave the ultimate sacrifice
.
Now, in my olden days, theultimate sacrifice was, you know
, giving your life, but ourultimate sacrifice is giving our
time and our energy into anenvironment that maybe not,
maybe won't be that interestedin receiving it, but we're going
to go and do it anyway becausewe believe that that's what the
(08:45):
world needs right now.
That is what an unstoppableforce is.
Nicola (08:51):
Okay, I'm on board with the new version of sacrifice
because time is very valuable tome.
Yeah, me too.
Stew (08:59):
If you think about in my olden days, in my military
career, when we joined up.
You sign up, you sign on thedotted line to say that I will
give my life.
It's a little bit like goingbungee jumping or whitewater
kayaking.
You sign off a bit of paperthat says if I die it's all my
fault.
Gina (09:17):
That's my whole life.
If I die, it's all my fault.
That's cool.
Nicola (09:22):
I saw your tube start.
I did it was my fault anyway.
Please make sure that happensfor me Nicola.
Stew (09:29):
And how freeing is that.
How freeing is that?
But you know actually what wedid when we all went off to war
and some of us didn't come backagain.
What society did was we tooktheir time from them.
That's what happened.
So what we should be all aboutis going hey, I've been gifted
(09:50):
these 80 summers in this earthlysuit, I got to use this time
and I've got to do so much.
Yeah, that's exactly what we'redoing.
You got to zip it up, get onwith it.
Nicola (10:04):
Okay, so tell us a little bit about some of the
toxic places that you haveworked at that have kind of led
you to this thing.
Stew (10:13):
So you asked me this question in the first few
moments that we met and I nearlytold you the story, because it
was one that I sort of forgottenand it came bouncing back into
front of mind, when I was amid-level leader in the British
Army.
I was a company commander.
I had responsibility for about150 boys and girls and we had
(10:39):
been on exercise for 10 days.
We'd been living in ditches, inthe rain, in the sun, eating,
yeah.
Gina (10:48):
Sounds like Florida.
Nicola (10:51):
Sounds like South Africa , not so swampy.
Stew (10:58):
This was in the plains of Germany, and at the end the
exercise came to a finish andphotographer came out and I
thought actually, what a greatopportunity to get photographs
of a photograph of my wholecompany together.
My company, one of my sectioncommanders, so a junior officer
(11:19):
had been absolutely brilliant onexercise.
We had got on really, reallywell, dealt with all the sleep
deprivation, all the stress ofbeing on exercise, and at the
photograph we were standing infront of a main battle tank,
right.
And I'd said to this youngcaptain, female, this young
(11:39):
captain, hey, jump up onto theturret, you deserve to be up at
the top of everything that'sgoing on for the photograph.
So she jumped up and sat alittle bit like Cher in whatever
the song was, over the barrelof the tank, right.
Another officer walked pastafter the photograph had been
(12:02):
taken and said that looked likesexual harassment.
And within 24 hours my wholecareer was on the line.
Gina (12:11):
And how can something look like sexual harassment?
I'm confused.
Yep, so was I If you're likenot standing near them.
Stew (12:21):
This was a little while ago, but this was one person's
view and I'll give him his due.
He'd been on exercise as well.
He was tired.
But that one statement got thisone young lady thinking oh yeah
, must be.
And before I knew it I was infront of the commanding officer
(12:42):
being told that my militarycareer was over.
Gina (12:44):
That was it.
What year was this?
Just so I can understand.
Stew (12:49):
This was 2006.
Gina (12:56):
Okay, not to be a dick, but there was a level of sexual
harassment in the early 2000sthat was almost acceptable.
I don't agree with it.
But as a female who was in theworkplace in corporate America
in 2006, since 2002, which iswhen I had my first job out of
college on Wall Street there wasdefinitely a level of sexual
(13:19):
harassment that you still had toput up with.
It was not right, but Yep, solike I was the person who walked
by, male or female, Male.
Stew (13:31):
So look, this began to uncover.
Gina (13:34):
That's even weirder, in my opinion.
Stew (13:38):
Totally so.
What actually happened was thisuncovered a very, very toxic
undertone across the wholebattalion.
Gina (13:50):
I think the military is toxic anyway.
Stew (13:54):
I think that's what certain parts of society want to
make the military.
But I certainly agree thatthere are certain parts of the
military where it is quitemisogynist.
Gina (14:09):
Oh, I'm not even talking about that.
I'm just saying I think thatthe majority of the military is
just built on a foundation.
Remember when we were talkingto Tammy?
Nicola (14:23):
Oh yeah, but Tammy was a nurse.
Yeah, and there was noescalation of the bullying,
because you can't escalate upbut you can de-escalate.
Gina (14:35):
Yeah, I just think the structure is a recipe for
disaster.
Stew (14:44):
Yeah, and I think that's the same with many, let's not
say every.
That's the same with many olderorganizations that have a rigid
spider structure.
Yeah, I think we agree on that,whereas, if you look at, I think
(15:04):
you're the other end of thescale, where you've got the
starfish organizations likeGoogle and Oracle and Apple,
where they've got a very, veryflat structure.
There are challenges there, too.
The answer lies in creating anorganization that allows open
(15:26):
communication and openness toconversation, to be ourselves,
but there is also a structurebehind it, because we still need
that structure.
That's what people look for intimes of stress.
Nicola (15:37):
Yeah, yeah.
It makes like I understand thelogic behind the kind of the
command and control structure,especially in a time of
increased stress and challenge,and you're going into like a war
situation or whatever it is.
You need that plan of actionthat everybody knows, the same
(15:58):
plan of action.
Nobody's going to stop it upbecause they're like I didn't
know who my boss was, so we knewexactly what was going on.
And I get it.
Stew (16:08):
And that's what then creates in the military.
We call it, or it's calledmission command, where, because
we understand what the missionis, because we understand what's
meant to happen, we're leftalone to get home with it.
And micromanagement is theopposite of that, where people
just need to know everythingthat's going on and that creates
(16:29):
toxicity in itself.
Nicola (16:31):
Yeah, that's true.
We came from an organizationwith a notorious micromanage.
Stew (16:36):
Okay, there you go Right.
Nicola (16:39):
That's how Gino and I met was at this particular
organization, which was verycurious.
Stew (16:46):
Do tell.
Do tell what caused you.
Tell me about the micromanaging, what caused it.
Gina (16:52):
Oh, you got to listen to episodes one through three.
Nicola (16:56):
It was essentially just very young telling two very well
qualified people how to dotheir jobs consistently.
Gina (17:08):
When they didn't even know basic retail.
Nicola (17:10):
They never had a real job.
Gina (17:13):
Math or retail fucking planning, or yeah, or just used
to sell like old tires on eBayor whatever the fuck it was we
would have taken anything atthat point, oh my.
Nicola (17:26):
God.
Anyway, she was the COR and wewere like how, how, how brown
cow.
Gina (17:35):
She's like a half our age already, right, like half like
less than half at this point.
Stew (17:40):
Wow Okay.
Gina (17:42):
For me.
What was she 27?
Nicola (17:45):
No, I think she was.
Yeah, maybe like 25, 26.
Gina (17:51):
That's like maybe 44 in November.
So that's about half.
Stew (17:55):
So yeah, I mean.
I mean, yeah, when you've got.
The challenge we have withpeople being thrown into
leadership positions too youngis that they've not had the
opportunity to catch leadership.
All they've done is they'vebeen on courses, they've seen a
bunch of folks around about themand, yeah, and then something
changes and they're going.
How do I deal with this?
And how do they deal with it?
(18:15):
They go into themselves andthey start.
They start micromanaging theirleadership is something that
we've got to catch from theexperiences of people around
about us and that can be yourbad experiences and good
experience to say, well, that'sthe way I'd like to do it or
that's the way I'm never goingto do it.
But the younger you are, theless opportunity you've had to
do that.
Yeah, yeah, in my career Iwasn't even given leadership of
(18:39):
myself.
When my career started, I'dyeah, I'd soldiers around me
saying, do it, do it this way,do it that way.
It took me yeah, it took me 20years and that was quick to take
command of my battalion, of myunit.
But that's because I've beencatching leadership for all of
that time to hone thoseleadership skills, to make sure
(19:00):
that, hey, I'm going to do it asbest as I can.
Gina (19:03):
Throw a 25 year old into a leadership position without all
of the supports, then thescrewed I almost feel bad for
her because, like she really wasin way over her head and was
trying to like figure it out asshe went, but I think there was
a part of her that was tooafraid to ask for help.
Nicola (19:24):
But I think there was also like a pride thing as well,
yeah.
Gina (19:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
Stew (19:31):
So there was a lack of humility.
Nicola (19:34):
I'd say there was a lack of a lot of things.
Stew (19:38):
Okay, well, hopefully she's going on and she's learned
stuff and she's now a betterleader.
Nicola (19:45):
When we can, only I'm like we can only hope.
Gina (19:48):
Yeah, I'm the worst.
I'm like they're a fucking packof imbeciles which they are
like, every time you say it, I'mdead inside.
I know, I know yeah.
Nicola (20:02):
Anyway, it wasn't our finest hour, it was a learning
opportunity.
Stew (20:07):
There you go.
As long as that was the outcome, then that's a good thing.
Gina (20:11):
Yeah, for sure.
Nicola (20:12):
All right, so talk to us a little bit more around some
of those toxic, you know kind ofexperiences that you've had
that have kind of led you intothis kind of.
Stew (20:22):
So I think I mean yeah, that was.
I mean I'm sure there wereothers, but that was yeah.
I think that was the first timethat I was on the stand in
front of my commanding officerbeing told that my life is over,
were you.
Gina (20:33):
what did they say in the military honorably discharged?
Oh, no, no, no, no no, that was.
Stew (20:37):
It was all dealt with and it was all you know.
Everything was the heat wastaken out of the situation and
it was recognized what hadactually gone on, and life moved
on.
Gina (20:49):
Oh, okay, okay.
Stew (20:50):
Yeah, life moved on, but you mean, that was, you know,
when I started thinking about it.
That was the first oh holy crap, there was that one.
But yeah, then it came down towell, me me dealing with the
situation, you know, when I hadcommand of, you know, over 200
soldiers, salesman and airman,and trained over 10,000 people
over 10 years.
I had people going in and outthe door all of the time and
(21:12):
every Monday morning I had aline of junior soldiers who had
done something naughty over theweekend that we had to deal with
.
And it really came down to well,wait a minute, this means that
the values and standards of theBritish forces isn't getting
through to some of, yeah, someof my team.
(21:33):
So we I rewrote, or got theteam together and we wrote the
values for the units which satunderneath the values of the
armed forces and said, right,well, yeah, if this is the
bigger picture, this is whatwe're going to do within the
unit, because you should be ableto understand that stuff.
And that's what I did when Igot into you know, we moved to
(21:56):
New Zealand and I was one of thefounders of a tech startup.
We got, you know, we got thevalues together and we did the
work.
But that still didn't removethe fact that I had a psychopath
work in for me and, yeah, thatrelationship or all of those
relationships across thebusiness, it was just a constant
(22:17):
tension in the three years thatI was Chief Exec.
Nicola (22:24):
So tell us a little bit about the values or the
subvalues that you ended upcoming up with, because I'm
curious to know, because, again,at this organization that we
met at, we can only describe thevalues as Dr Sucioisms.
And they were moderatelychallenging to work with because
they just didn't connect orthey were contradictory or they
(22:48):
just had these hygiene factorsto their merits, Like well, you
should just be a good persongenerally, you don't have to
write that down.
So I'm curious to know whatthese, these subvalues were that
you developed.
Stew (23:06):
So, in all honesty, that was well over a decade ago.
I can't remember what thosevalues were, but what I will
share is that when I left themilitary, I had to do exactly
the same for me, because fromthe moment I left school, I'd
had the values of the Britishforces.
I was like, okay, it's selflesscommitment, it's courageous.
Okay, well, that's cool.
(23:26):
And then I take my uniform offand I go right.
What the far, where?
And over 18 months, over 18months, I established my own set
of values.
So my value?
I've got six.
My values are bravery, tenacity, enthusiasm.
I'm a presence to everyone Imeet.
I'm honest and I act with them.
I'm an inspiration to everyoneI meet.
So those are the six.
(23:47):
Now, yeah, I could pack them upand stick them in a box and
just leave them and go.
Oh, yeah, I've got some values.
But the whole purpose of valuesis that we live them, because
when we live them, we realize ifthe right for us, if the right
for the organization, if they'rejust written and put in a box,
then it doesn't matter.
People will just do whateverthey want to do and human nature
(24:09):
will do whatever is best for us, because it's about survival.
So what we've got to do iswe've got to bring the values to
life.
Now, for me, I've got a book,which isn't on my desk at the
moment, and I write my valuesdown here.
I've got a mantra that I writedown every morning to remind me
of the person that I'm going tobe that day.
What did any?
Nicola (24:29):
of them.
Stew (24:31):
Well, all of them.
So I go through your bravery tonasty, enthusiasm and
inspiration, honest and beingpresent towards everyone I meet
At the other end of the day,when I'm brushing my teeth at
night, looking in the mirror, Igo right, okay, how was it?
How was today?
Were we 100% across the board?
And for the most part, no,because values are something we
(24:53):
should live into.
Values is a challenge to growto the next level of who we can
be or who our organization canbe.
And if we miss that and if wedon't check in, then they're
going to drift and that's whenthat toxic environment starts
happening.
That's when the world goes tome yeah, go on.
Gina (25:16):
It's kind of like you don't want to become complacent.
That's like the opposite ofwhat you're saying and it's like
if you're goal driven and ifyou're working for yourself
which is something that I doit's like the harder I work, the
more effort I put forth into mybusiness or whatever the task
(25:37):
is at hand, the bigger thereward.
So I feel like a lot of thosevalues that you're stating are
just going to come along for theride, naturally.
So, yeah, I mean, I don't knowwhat do you think, nicola?
Nicola (25:56):
I think you know it sounds.
For me it sounds a little bitlike the kind of miracle morning
process where you have thevalues and then you kind of
segment your time up in themorning into kind of the six key
points of writing, reaffirming,you know, thinking, quiet time,
(26:17):
all of those like little piecesto kind of bolster you up
before you get your day going.
But I think when you do thatit's great that you have this
resilience around you.
But when you head into a toxicorganization that is innately
toxic and doesn't give twoshifts about the values that
you're bringing in, you'recoming to crush your soul or a
(26:39):
godless of.
If you're feeling fabuloustoday.
Gina (26:44):
Yeah, I agree, Nicola, because it's like they'll make
you crazier before you canchange them and a lot of
companies, even if you're comingin as a consultant to fix
morale or whatever, they're notreally ready to change.
No, totally agree.
Nicola (27:02):
They know they need to.
Gina (27:04):
They know they need to, but they actually don't want to
hear what you have to say,because reality is too rough or
it's going to take some wind outof their sales, or whatever.
Stew (27:16):
That goes back to a point that Nicola made earlier, which
spoke about your hygiene values.
You're bringing a consultant into do workplace mental wellness
.
Let's call it it's the stickingplaster, as we've got to do
something so that when the shithits the fan, they can say, well
(27:39):
, we did that thing, we did that, so we're a great culture to
work for, rather than actuallydoing the hard work or digging
deeper into.
And that's when I go intoorganizations and I mean one of
our workshops is developingvalues.
Yeah, it doesn't stop withright.
(28:00):
Okay, guys, thanks a lot, thatwas a lovely day.
Thanks for lunch.
You've got your four words.
Let's move on.
This is a deep process thatsounds like the EOS meeting.
Gina (28:12):
Let's have lunch.
Those four words are good,great Company culture.
Stew (28:17):
Yeah, but I mean that's what happens, because there's
something that happens whenconsultants go in, or when you
go in you deliver a workshop, orthe door closes and everyone in
that room agrees that.
You know we're going to do thevalues work we're going to,
we're going to make it happen.
I even turned my phone off andthen then, then, at the end of
(28:40):
the day, the door, or the end ofthe session, the door opens up
and the world hits us again.
Normal daily dying hits us yetagain and you've got all the
emails that you didn't answer,you've got a parking ticket,
you're late for picking the kidsup from school and you forget
everything because automaticallywe go into that survival mode.
(29:04):
Oh, I'm no behind, I've got tocatch up.
So all of the great work thathappened in, you know in that
session, or you know that reportthat the consultants written
after they've been with you, yetnothing more than the top 10.
Gina (29:17):
That's like how do you bridge that gap?
And I think and Nicola and Iwere just talking about that I
think it takes a certain levelof Emotional maturity and being
able to really be honest withyourself about especially if
you're in a leadership positionabout what's going on Like and
(29:40):
not everybody wants to do that,and I think the people who are
in leadership positions, whodon't know how to self assess or
or are willing to face reality,are the most toxic.
And it doesn't matter if you'rea man, woman, whatever.
I just think that that is whatcreates the most toxic type of
workplace.
(30:00):
So it's all good, right, like,you can come in stew and say
like bravery, you know,persistence, enthusiasm being
present.
But Unless the leadership ofthat company buys into that idea
, you're just like basicallyshowing up and saying a bunch of
(30:21):
gobbledygook and then getting atrack and going away and that's
cool too.
I mean, get money, however youcan.
Stew (30:28):
Which is why, which is why I've walked away from the
corporate world, which is why Ido what I do, because I
recognize that, actually, do youknow what I cannot work?
I choose not to work with thosepeople because they are problem
.
I look at it, I look atleadership.
Yeah, I look at, I look atleadership across and I'll use
New Zealand.
But we see it, yeah, we see itacross across the world and,
(30:53):
yeah, it's an echo chamber, andthe evidence of it being an echo
chamber is the challenges thatwe are seeing in our national
leaders.
Yeah, there is that echo chamberof, well, I'm a leader.
That for, therefore, this meansthat and I've got a leadership
coach who tells me these things,which means it must, and it
just keeps going round and roundin circles, and that that
(31:18):
exacerbates the challenge thatwe're all talking about, because
it says it's OK and theleadership of our nations, the
leaders sorry, the leaders inour nations, creates the
leadership we see at every levelacross our countries and it
says it's all right to notuphold our values.
(31:39):
It says it's all right to, youknow, just sort of just brush
over the truth of the matterrather than actually going to.
Now we're actually going to diginto this.
That's the real challenge thatwe're facing.
It's not just individualorganizations that have got a
toxic leadership culture or lackof values within the workplace.
(31:59):
What we're actually seeing isthat it is being led by the
examples we're seeing at thenational level.
And that's whatever that'swhatever colour you vote.
Gina (32:10):
I don't, I like, don't follow politics at all, so I am
not, or I'm not, educated enoughto even talk about politics
Like I let I leave that to thegrownups.
Like I'm coming from America.
Nicola (32:28):
I feel like anything that you do in that space would
be like a hot button topic.
Gina (32:34):
I mean everything's a mess everywhere.
Right now, that's really mypolitical stance is everything's
a mess everywhere, and I'm justgoing to do what I can do to
make my life and those around mea little bit better every day.
What is it that you do exactlynow and how does it work into
your the value thing?
Stew (32:58):
What I do know is I go into, I work with organizations
and individuals and help them toreach beyond.
The limits become unstoppable,and I do that through workshops,
I do it through one to onecoaching and I do it through a
mastermind program where I bringa dozen businesses together and
we work together over 12 monthsto to raise them all to the
(33:23):
level that they didn't think waspossible.
Gina (33:28):
Okay, so can you give us a quick example of what it might
look like?
Stew (33:33):
Yeah, Well, I mean the 12 month program.
I go and actually spend timewith the chief exec and with
with the businesses and and helpthem work out where the next
levels are.
And we've got a number of toolsthat we use to to bring an
(33:53):
organization to where they werereally the board level, where
the governance level thinks theyshould be, but the board
doesn't have a clue about how toget them there.
And, yeah, I just sit there andwork with them and just you
identify the challenges thatthey haven't seen.
So you know if it's valuesbased.
(34:15):
You know the conversation lastmonth with a client who's you
know, and I this is big for NewZealand but a tiny for the US is
650 acre thoroughbred stud farmthey were.
They were going Well, look,this, this isn't working.
Our values are broken.
In fact, we don't have anyvalues.
(34:35):
How do we?
Okay, so we begin to introducethe values concept to them and
go deeper and deeper and deeperuntil it actually lands with
every single member of the team.
But then we also look at well,how does that affect revenue?
What is it that you are doingin your business right now?
That has nothing to do withsales, is nothing to do with
(34:56):
marketing or BD, but the systemstill broken.
How do we unpick that?
And you know, we just slowly,in fact not slowly at all.
We just unpick what's nothappening in the company and
we've seen massive accelerationsin those businesses because
we're not focused on thetraditional bits of business.
(35:19):
We're actually focused on what'smaking, what is the lifeblood
of the business and how do weget people working smarter
together.
So it starts with values, itmoves on to communication and
conflict resolution.
There's a bit of leadership inthere, and then we, we break
down.
Everyone needs a business plan.
So I'm told why?
(35:41):
Why don't we?
Why not instead, do we work ona bunch of priorities?
That causes the business toevolve, rather than everyone
having to face change and nexttime someone comes up with a
good idea.
So we, we, we cause businessesto start evolving in what they
choose to be rather than thetraditional start.
Stop nature of change teams.
Gina (36:04):
Do you know anything about the EOS system?
Have?
Nicola (36:07):
you heard of this.
Have you heard of?
Gina (36:09):
this, because what you're doing, is it just Minicola, or
does it kind of sounds verysimilar, which isn't a bad thing
, it's not a bad thing.
Nicola (36:20):
It's not rocket science, right.
It's been around for likedecades and decades and decades.
Yeah, that process.
Gina (36:26):
And sometimes I feel like it's like a company reset almost
.
But then when you're doing that, is it ever like really
apparent to you like who'sfucking toxic?
And you're like, is it?
Stew (36:39):
Yep.
Gina (36:40):
And what?
Stew (36:41):
do you do with?
Nicola (36:41):
that how do you deal with that?
Gina (36:43):
I mean, like you, sir, are the most toxic human being I've
ever met.
Please leave.
Stew (36:47):
No, the thing is, if you actually land your values
properly, you don't ever have tohave that conversation.
Look, it might come to that.
Of course you might have tohave that conversation, but you
can have a values-basedconversation that causes that
individual to in the most placein the most.
In almost every case that I'vedealt with, the individual
(37:09):
leaves the organization becausethe values are not aligned.
There's only been a couple ofoccasions where we've had to do
a business restructure in orderto sort the problem out.
Gina (37:21):
So I left because so I was so where Nicola and I met, I
resigned and then they found me,and I know to our regular
listeners that are tired of mesaying that it was so boring.
They're.
So they're like yeah, yeah,yeah, we know, we know you're
fucking annoying now, but but Ithink it was like I just was
(37:43):
like this is such a mess and Ican't be a part of it, and like
I knew enough because I hadwhatever 20 years of working in
corporate America and building abusiness from scratch that I
was like this is just a sinkingship, like I can't be a part of
this.
Nicola (38:01):
I wouldn't say that they have values alignment thing
either.
That's a, that's a.
Gina (38:06):
hey, I can see this is not a good thing, but it was values
, right, because their corevalues, as we spoke about
multiple times, were like myths,like they were just like didn't
make any sense, like they werenot, like.
I feel like a core value issomething like always be honest,
you know, like even that's kindof like a hygiene value, but
it's like or be enthusiastic,it's like I can be enthusiastic
(38:30):
but I can still disagree withyou, right?
So it's like it was like beenthusiastic in the way that we
want you to be enthusiastic andI'm like that doesn't work for
me, like that's not a real thing.
Stew (38:44):
And so you?
Yeah, I mean I agree that youleft because your values were so
disparate from the organizationthat you had no choice, because
insanity was the only otheroption.
Gina (38:55):
I was going insane, I was absolutely going insane.
And then, of course, in theirtrue toxic fashion, they then
fired me and gave me severance,even though I like was like I
have no choice but to resign.
So I was like cool yeah.
Stew (39:11):
It's exactly the same reason that I took my uniform
off.
I was at the Royal MercyAcademy at Sanctus, where all
baby officers passed off theparade square and I was there as
a senior officer with all ofthe other ones and I was looking
at it going really all of thebullshit that I'm hearing today,
and this is what you want yournext generation of leaders to be
(39:37):
hearing and to act like and tobe really.
Gina (39:42):
And that was it.
And then you were just like I'mout.
Stew (39:45):
Yep, I mean it took a little while to actually get out
, but that was different in themilitary right.
Gina (39:52):
Like you can't just like be like peace out.
I'm resigning in an email.
Stew (39:57):
Well, you can but it just takes a bit of time to get
through that process.
But that was the moment that Iwent.
Do you know what I'm done?
Because my values no longeralign with what I am seeing and
what I'm feeling about theorganization.
Gina (40:13):
You had outgrown it.
Stew (40:15):
Yeah.
Gina (40:17):
Yeah.
Stew (40:17):
Yeah.
So yeah, I do.
I do think you left becauseyour values no longer who you
were didn't align with thebusiness you work for.
There are probably people inthat business who are going yeah
, this is great, I'm happy withthis, and that's either because
they're completely unconsciousor because they align with those
values.
Gina (40:37):
Yeah, and they like drank the Kool-Aid for so long.
They don't know any better.
Rude, yeah, well it wasdifferent for you though.
Yeah, it was different for you,nikola, though, because you
liked them as a consumer first,true, so you kind of already,
(40:57):
pre you like, pre-ordered theKool-Aid.
Nicola (41:00):
I did pre-order the Kool-Aid.
I made the Kool-Aid at homefirst and then I slipped on the
Kool-Aid and then I got.
Then I like sweat, I barbed inthe Kool-Aid.
Stew (41:12):
Yeah.
Nicola (41:13):
Barbed off from the Kool-Aid and then drank my
bathwater too.
Oh gross.
Gina (41:17):
Nice, but yeah, but yeah, yeah, I mean, whereas I didn't
even know this company existedand I was like what, who are
like?
Who are these people?
But like it's a CPG.
So I'm good, I'm going to begood at it, and I was good at it
, and I was told that I madeeveryone feel stupid.
I'm like, well, I was a bitnervous, I was a bit confused, I
(41:37):
was being mean, but what can I?
I have like 18 years ofexperience.
You guys, don't you either learnfrom it, or you walk around
feeling like you're stupid, oryou ask questions Like what's,
what is the alternative there?
Nicola (41:55):
So many, so many alternatives.
You can leave.
Gina (41:59):
Whatever, but yes to your point too.
Like I was just like this isfucking insane.
I know better.
This is a sinking fucking ship.
All these people are not onlyindividually toxic.
They come together and createlike a toxic, like sludge
monster, yeah, and then likethey're like all on top of each
other and they're like toxic.
And I was just like I don'thave time for this shit.
(42:21):
It's like I don't have time forthis shit.
I'd rather be hungry and haveno like actual real income than
have to deal with this bullshit.
Nicola (42:31):
Yes, so I agree with you on that.
Oh, that's too, that's tooentertaining.
Thank you, Thank you everybodyfor that entertaining piece of
joy.
Anyways, it's you.
So, Stu, tell us a little bitlike what where are some of the
places that our amazing podcastlisteners can find you?
What are some of the thingsthat you can offer them in like
(42:55):
a service, like service wise?
How can you help them?
What are some?
Of the things that they canhunt you down for.
Stew (43:02):
So, first up, Unstoppable Force TV is now into.
It's just launched it lastmonth, so we've got four
episodes up there.
You can find that on YouTube.
My Unstoppable Force podcast isavailable out there.
There will be links to it onthe new website,
(43:26):
wwwunstoppableforceconz.
You can find me there.
You can find me on.
You can find the audio bookLead Through Life on Spotify.
And, yeah, if you jump ontoAmazon, Amazon's got the audio
book, the e-book, the hard copy,the paperback copy, If you want
(43:47):
to look through that.
That's very much a book about aleadership framework that I
developed throughout my militarycareer.
That is now used fromschoolboys to corporate leaders.
And if anyone wants to talkabout values, leadership, jump
(44:08):
on a call with me.
You can jump on the website.
You can book a 30 minute calland we can talk about where you
are challenged in terms ofleadership.
Or if you feel that yourorganization is a little bit
more toxic than you'd like it tobe, especially if you're in a
leadership role, jump on andlet's have a conversation.
Gina (44:27):
I would love to gift our old business a 30 minute call
with Stu.
Stew (44:34):
Well, if they have got the humility and the vulnerability
to take it.
Gina (44:37):
They don't, then they do not.
Stew (44:39):
Then the offer is there.
But the offer is there that youjump on, book a call and we'll
talk about it.
And where might that go?
Well, we offer six half dayworkshops.
Workshops either in person orvirtually.
That cover the gamut ofleadership, communication,
conflict resolution and a valuesframework.
(45:02):
And also the values frameworkincludes the tools you need to
embed those values into yourorganization.
Yeah, that's the work that wedo across New Zealand and a
little bit in the US.
Nicola (45:18):
Fair enough, I love that .
I'm gonna say it's beenabsolutely a hoot chatting with
you today.
Stew (45:27):
Well, thank you.
This always happens on podcasts, which is really cool.
You end up going to some reallyrandom places, don't you?
Gina (45:36):
Some of these are probably the most random I've been.
Stew (45:40):
I have no issue about being lectured about anything,
because if there's anopportunity to learn, I'll take
it.
If I find something of use init, awesome.
If not, I'll come back to youand tell you how my year was and
what I learned from it.
If anything, maybe the thing Ilearned is that I don't want to
ever fast again.
But yeah, we'll see whathappens.
(46:00):
Hey, luke, guys, it's been fun.
Thanks a lot for inviting me on.
Really enjoyed it.
It's been insightful, I'velearned some stuff and I hope
it's been useful to everyonewho's listening.
Gina (46:13):
Yeah, awesome, thank you, you have a wonderful rest of the
day.
Stew (46:17):
You too, bye, bye.
Nicola (46:19):
Thanks.
So you're going to Stu.
However, I met Stu at theChetty Chetty Tittics thing,
Okay.
Gina (00:06):
He gave you didn't know him at all before that.
You met him first night, whenyou were dressed like a crazy
pirate I'm gonna say fat piratesfat pirates.
How does a fat pirate say arg,whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, ha, ha, ha, ha.
I told Lucia because, like Joeand I took her on a little like
(00:31):
fake pirate thing in FortLauderdale and I was like, and I
told her how to.
I was like, what is a piratesaying?
And she goes arg.
But since you are now sayingyou were dressed like a fat
pirate, it's ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,
ah, ah, ah.
It was just a poor wardrobechoice.
Next time you got to float itby me.
Nicola (00:53):
You know what next?
Next time Sure, sure, sure,sure.
Gina (00:57):
You're like there's not, guess what, there's not gonna be
a next time.
No, there might be, Okay.
So you met him at the TEDx.
Nicola (01:04):
Okay, so we met at the TEDx.
He was really interesting,super curious, really wanted to
talk about toxic workplaces andI was like he's so feisty, like
so Good morning, stu, how areyou.
Stew (01:22):
I'm very, very well how are you?
Nicola (01:25):
We're doing great this morning.
Stew (01:27):
Awesome it is, isn't it?
It's morning.
Nicola (01:30):
I know it's a little early, Geez, what are you doing
to us?
Stew (01:33):
Oh hey, I've been up for an hour and a half.
Nicola (01:36):
But anyway, it's so great to have you joining us.
We are very excited to have achat.
It was so lovely meeting you atthe Disrupt HR staff, so that
was pretty fun.
How did you find your sessionwent?
Stew (01:53):
I don't remember it, but yeah, because it's so different
to what I normally do, it was.
You know, my brain was engagedthe whole time, but then when I
watched the video back, Ithought, yeah, landed it,
that'll work.
So I'm really quite happy.
But I think the thing that Ireally enjoyed about the event
(02:13):
was getting to meet a wholebunch of people.
That's true.
Gina (02:16):
I don't think I've ever watched myself back on any
recording ever and thought, yeah, that was awesome.
I'm always like, oh my God, myeye, one eye is smaller than the
other, my eyebrows retarded.
Stew (02:27):
Like my hair.
Gina (02:30):
I think that's like a very like, like gender specific
thing, because a man can looklike a potato and be like I'm
such hot shit.
No, no, no, like I've alwayssaid this my whole life and like
a pretty girl can like look inthe mirror and be like I'm fat,
you know, I think it's just.
Stew (02:49):
I think we all do that.
I mean, the fortunate thingabout the Disrupt HR video was
that I was like a sort of dot inthe middle of a screen, miles
away.
What I was listening to was thecontent and how I was rolling
into it.
Nicola (03:01):
Yeah, it looked like a fat pirate.
It was great, oh, ok.
Stew (03:08):
I mean, I completely agree with you that and I think it's
all of us we automatically lookfor what's wrong rather than
what's right, and that'sactually a problem in society we
look for what's wrong ratherthan what's right, rather and
say, hey shit, I stood up onstage in front of a hundred and
blah people and spoke for fiveminutes in a format that I've
never done before.
(03:28):
Of course, I'm fucking awesome.
That's what we should be doing.
Nicola (03:33):
I think I blacked out, though I was so stressed that I
think I legitimately blacked out.
You did seem quite yeah.
Gina (03:43):
Oh my God, no, I didn't get that.
I just, I was annoyed at youroutfit more than anything else,
pirate.
I was like no, you can't havetwo voluminous things.
One has to be like skin huggingand one can be voluminous.
Nicola (04:00):
You've got to have both, but we would just earlier.
What sound does a fat piratemake?
I asked her.
I was like go.
Stew (04:12):
I don't know because.
Gina (04:13):
Yeah.
Stew (04:15):
There you are.
I think you've been a bit harshon yourself.
Gina (04:21):
Oh, of course, but that's like that's what we do.
So tell us, tell us yourrelation to having To wanting to
be on our toxic workplacepodcast.
And yeah, you are.
Stew (04:39):
It really fascinates me that we live in a world where we
talk about values all of thetime but very, very seldom live
to those values and that is thecause of an awful lot of toxic
pressure within within theworkplace.
And I've seen it yeah, I'veseen it throughout my military
(05:01):
career, I've seen it throughoutmy business career that when the
corporate world in the UK andin the US landed on, values and
standards is something that theBritish Army and the American
forces have introduced to dealwith bullying and that sort of
nature in their environment.
(05:21):
We've got to do the same andeveryone jumped onto this values
and it turned into let's stickfour words on a wall and tell
people that that's what we standfor, and it stopped Rather than
say again like
Gina (05:38):
high like hygiene value.
Stew (05:40):
Totally.
It's oh, we're going to do this, we're going to do that thing,
but then it stopped and you'rewhere, where we need to get.
I believe that and what I teachis that we've missed the next
two steps of creating a valuebased workplace, and that causes
a toxic culture.
(06:01):
And there are very, very simplethings that we can do.
When we can walk into anybusiness and see if there is an
underlying toxic culture and Ido it all of the time when I
walk into businesses I just go,oh right, I see, I know what I'm
dealing with, and we have tostep through that and step
(06:22):
through that so that we go backto what the purpose of the
values actually are.
So that's why I'm reallyexcited to be here today.
Thank you very much for havingme.
Second part of the question whoam I?
Well, hey, I'm Stu.
I was a wee boy in Scotlandjust as the great shipyards
began to close and I thoughtthere's a world out there.
(06:44):
So I went and explored it andI've been exploring the world
through my military career for25 years and we moved to New
Zealand 10 years ago and I'venever stopped exploring, because
I believe that the human soulis an unstoppable force and
society has said do you knowwhat?
We can't let you be anunstoppable force, because
(07:04):
that's too difficult to control.
It's like a hurricane.
Nicola (07:09):
You can't control a hurricane you can.
Gina (07:12):
As a person who has been described as a hurricane, I
don't agree with this at all,because when.
I set my mind to do something,that shit gets done.
Stew (07:22):
Yeah, it does, it does.
How many people do you meetlike that?
Yeah, there you go.
Gina (07:29):
No no, I, I, there are a few in my stable.
I would say Nicola is one ofthem.
I would say my friend Nathan isanother.
There's a few, but therethere's.
There's less of those type ofpeople than there are the fringe
type of people or the peoplewho are not like hurricanes,
(07:51):
like that's why Nicola and Iwork so well together.
Because I was like I have thisidea for this podcast.
She was like love it.
And then the next thing, youknow, we're just fucking doing
it.
So it's like you know, yeah,yeah.
Stew (08:04):
And you did it because you you stepped into three
particular areas that mostpeople ignore.
You said, look, fuck it, we'regoing to be unreasonable Cool,
let's get out there and beunreasonable, let's go and do
that thing.
And you chose to raise yourstandards.
But not just raise yourstandards.
You're raising the standards ofyour stable and the people
(08:25):
around about you.
And the third thing you did wasyou gave the ultimate sacrifice
.
Now, in my olden days, theultimate sacrifice was, you know
, giving your life, but ourultimate sacrifice is giving our
time and our energy into anenvironment that maybe not,
maybe won't be that interestedin receiving it, but we're going
to go and do it anyway becausewe believe that that's what the
(08:45):
world needs right now.
That is what an unstoppableforce is.
Nicola (08:51):
Okay, I'm on board with the new version of sacrifice
because time is very valuable tome.
Yeah, me too.
Stew (08:59):
If you think about in my olden days, in my military
career, when we joined up.
You sign up, you sign on thedotted line to say that I will
give my life.
It's a little bit like goingbungee jumping or whitewater
kayaking.
You sign off a bit of paperthat says if I die it's all my
fault.
Gina (09:17):
That's my whole life.
If I die, it's all my fault.
That's cool.
Nicola (09:22):
I saw your tube start.
I did it was my fault anyway.
Please make sure that happensfor me Nicola.
Stew (09:29):
And how freeing is that.
How freeing is that?
But you know actually what wedid when we all went off to war
and some of us didn't come backagain.
What society did was we tooktheir time from them.
That's what happened.
So what we should be all aboutis going hey, I've been gifted
(09:50):
these 80 summers in this earthlysuit, I got to use this time
and I've got to do so much.
Yeah, that's exactly what we'redoing.
You got to zip it up, get onwith it.
Nicola (10:04):
Okay, so tell us a little bit about some of the
toxic places that you haveworked at that have kind of led
you to this thing.
Stew (10:13):
So you asked me this question in the first few
moments that we met and I nearlytold you the story, because it
was one that I sort of forgottenand it came bouncing back into
front of mind, when I was amid-level leader in the British
Army.
I was a company commander.
I had responsibility for about150 boys and girls and we had
(10:39):
been on exercise for 10 days.
We'd been living in ditches, inthe rain, in the sun, eating,
yeah.
Gina (10:48):
Sounds like Florida.
Nicola (10:51):
Sounds like South Africa , not so swampy.
Stew (10:58):
This was in the plains of Germany, and at the end the
exercise came to a finish andphotographer came out and I
thought actually, what a greatopportunity to get photographs
of a photograph of my wholecompany together.
My company, one of my sectioncommanders, so a junior officer
(11:19):
had been absolutely brilliant onexercise.
We had got on really, reallywell, dealt with all the sleep
deprivation, all the stress ofbeing on exercise, and at the
photograph we were standing infront of a main battle tank,
right.
And I'd said to this youngcaptain, female, this young
(11:39):
captain, hey, jump up onto theturret, you deserve to be up at
the top of everything that'sgoing on for the photograph.
So she jumped up and sat alittle bit like Cher in whatever
the song was, over the barrelof the tank, right.
Another officer walked pastafter the photograph had been
(12:02):
taken and said that looked likesexual harassment.
And within 24 hours my wholecareer was on the line.
Gina (12:11):
And how can something look like sexual harassment?
I'm confused.
Yep, so was I If you're likenot standing near them.
Stew (12:21):
This was a little while ago, but this was one person's
view and I'll give him his due.
He'd been on exercise as well.
He was tired.
But that one statement got thisone young lady thinking oh yeah
, must be.
And before I knew it I was infront of the commanding officer
(12:42):
being told that my militarycareer was over.
Gina (12:44):
That was it.
What year was this?
Just so I can understand.
Stew (12:49):
This was 2006.
Gina (12:56):
Okay, not to be a dick, but there was a level of sexual
harassment in the early 2000sthat was almost acceptable.
I don't agree with it.
But as a female who was in theworkplace in corporate America
in 2006, since 2002, which iswhen I had my first job out of
college on Wall Street there wasdefinitely a level of sexual
(13:19):
harassment that you still had toput up with.
It was not right, but Yep, solike I was the person who walked
by, male or female, Male.
Stew (13:31):
So look, this began to uncover.
Gina (13:34):
That's even weirder, in my opinion.
Stew (13:38):
Totally so.
What actually happened was thisuncovered a very, very toxic
undertone across the wholebattalion.
Gina (13:50):
I think the military is toxic anyway.
Stew (13:54):
I think that's what certain parts of society want to
make the military.
But I certainly agree thatthere are certain parts of the
military where it is quitemisogynist.
Gina (14:09):
Oh, I'm not even talking about that.
I'm just saying I think thatthe majority of the military is
just built on a foundation.
Remember when we were talkingto Tammy?
Nicola (14:23):
Oh yeah, but Tammy was a nurse.
Yeah, and there was noescalation of the bullying,
because you can't escalate upbut you can de-escalate.
Gina (14:35):
Yeah, I just think the structure is a recipe for
disaster.
Stew (14:44):
Yeah, and I think that's the same with many, let's not
say every.
That's the same with many olderorganizations that have a rigid
spider structure.
Yeah, I think we agree on that,whereas, if you look at, I think
(15:04):
you're the other end of thescale, where you've got the
starfish organizations likeGoogle and Oracle and Apple,
where they've got a very, veryflat structure.
There are challenges there, too.
The answer lies in creating anorganization that allows open
(15:26):
communication and openness toconversation, to be ourselves,
but there is also a structurebehind it, because we still need
that structure.
That's what people look for intimes of stress.
Nicola (15:37):
Yeah, yeah.
It makes like I understand thelogic behind the kind of the
command and control structure,especially in a time of
increased stress and challenge,and you're going into like a war
situation or whatever it is.
You need that plan of actionthat everybody knows, the same
(15:58):
plan of action.
Nobody's going to stop it upbecause they're like I didn't
know who my boss was, so we knewexactly what was going on.
And I get it.
Stew (16:08):
And that's what then creates in the military.
We call it, or it's calledmission command, where, because
we understand what the missionis, because we understand what's
meant to happen, we're leftalone to get home with it.
And micromanagement is theopposite of that, where people
just need to know everythingthat's going on and that creates
(16:29):
toxicity in itself.
Nicola (16:31):
Yeah, that's true.
We came from an organizationwith a notorious micromanage.
Stew (16:36):
Okay, there you go Right.
Nicola (16:39):
That's how Gino and I met was at this particular
organization, which was verycurious.
Stew (16:46):
Do tell.
Do tell what caused you.
Tell me about the micromanaging, what caused it.
Gina (16:52):
Oh, you got to listen to episodes one through three.
Nicola (16:56):
It was essentially just very young telling two very well
qualified people how to dotheir jobs consistently.
Gina (17:08):
When they didn't even know basic retail.
Nicola (17:10):
They never had a real job.
Gina (17:13):
Math or retail fucking planning, or yeah, or just used
to sell like old tires on eBayor whatever the fuck it was we
would have taken anything atthat point, oh my.
Nicola (17:26):
God.
Anyway, she was the COR and wewere like how, how, how brown
cow.
Gina (17:35):
She's like a half our age already, right, like half like
less than half at this point.
Stew (17:40):
Wow Okay.
Gina (17:42):
For me.
What was she 27?
Nicola (17:45):
No, I think she was.
Yeah, maybe like 25, 26.
Gina (17:51):
That's like maybe 44 in November.
So that's about half.
Stew (17:55):
So yeah, I mean.
I mean, yeah, when you've got.
The challenge we have withpeople being thrown into
leadership positions too youngis that they've not had the
opportunity to catch leadership.
All they've done is they'vebeen on courses, they've seen a
bunch of folks around about themand, yeah, and then something
changes and they're going.
How do I deal with this?
And how do they deal with it?
(18:15):
They go into themselves andthey start.
They start micromanaging theirleadership is something that
we've got to catch from theexperiences of people around
about us and that can be yourbad experiences and good
experience to say, well, that'sthe way I'd like to do it or
that's the way I'm never goingto do it.
But the younger you are, theless opportunity you've had to
do that.
Yeah, yeah, in my career Iwasn't even given leadership of
(18:39):
myself.
When my career started, I'dyeah, I'd soldiers around me
saying, do it, do it this way,do it that way.
It took me yeah, it took me 20years and that was quick to take
command of my battalion, of myunit.
But that's because I've beencatching leadership for all of
that time to hone thoseleadership skills, to make sure
(19:00):
that, hey, I'm going to do it asbest as I can.
Gina (19:03):
Throw a 25 year old into a leadership position without all
of the supports, then thescrewed I almost feel bad for
her because, like she really wasin way over her head and was
trying to like figure it out asshe went, but I think there was
a part of her that was tooafraid to ask for help.
Nicola (19:24):
But I think there was also like a pride thing as well,
yeah.
Gina (19:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
Stew (19:31):
So there was a lack of humility.
Nicola (19:34):
I'd say there was a lack of a lot of things.
Stew (19:38):
Okay, well, hopefully she's going on and she's learned
stuff and she's now a betterleader.
Nicola (19:45):
When we can, only I'm like we can only hope.
Gina (19:48):
Yeah, I'm the worst.
I'm like they're a fucking packof imbeciles which they are
like, every time you say it, I'mdead inside.
I know, I know yeah.
Nicola (20:02):
Anyway, it wasn't our finest hour, it was a learning
opportunity.
Stew (20:07):
There you go.
As long as that was the outcome, then that's a good thing.
Gina (20:11):
Yeah, for sure.
Nicola (20:12):
All right, so talk to us a little bit more around some
of those toxic, you know kind ofexperiences that you've had
that have kind of led you intothis kind of.
Stew (20:22):
So I think I mean yeah, that was.
I mean I'm sure there wereothers, but that was yeah.
I think that was the first timethat I was on the stand in
front of my commanding officerbeing told that my life is over,
were you.
Gina (20:33):
what did they say in the military honorably discharged?
Oh, no, no, no, no no, that was.
Stew (20:37):
It was all dealt with and it was all you know.
Everything was the heat wastaken out of the situation and
it was recognized what hadactually gone on, and life moved
on.
Gina (20:49):
Oh, okay, okay.
Stew (20:50):
Yeah, life moved on, but you mean, that was, you know,
when I started thinking about it.
That was the first oh holy crap, there was that one.
But yeah, then it came down towell, me me dealing with the
situation, you know, when I hadcommand of, you know, over 200
soldiers, salesman and airman,and trained over 10,000 people
over 10 years.
I had people going in and outthe door all of the time and
(21:12):
every Monday morning I had aline of junior soldiers who had
done something naughty over theweekend that we had to deal with
.
And it really came down to well,wait a minute, this means that
the values and standards of theBritish forces isn't getting
through to some of, yeah, someof my team.
(21:33):
So we I rewrote, or got theteam together and we wrote the
values for the units which satunderneath the values of the
armed forces and said, right,well, yeah, if this is the
bigger picture, this is whatwe're going to do within the
unit, because you should be ableto understand that stuff.
And that's what I did when Igot into you know, we moved to
(21:56):
New Zealand and I was one of thefounders of a tech startup.
We got, you know, we got thevalues together and we did the
work.
But that still didn't removethe fact that I had a psychopath
work in for me and, yeah, thatrelationship or all of those
relationships across thebusiness, it was just a constant
(22:17):
tension in the three years thatI was Chief Exec.
Nicola (22:24):
So tell us a little bit about the values or the
subvalues that you ended upcoming up with, because I'm
curious to know, because, again,at this organization that we
met at, we can only describe thevalues as Dr Sucioisms.
And they were moderatelychallenging to work with because
they just didn't connect orthey were contradictory or they
(22:48):
just had these hygiene factorsto their merits, Like well, you
should just be a good persongenerally, you don't have to
write that down.
So I'm curious to know whatthese, these subvalues were that
you developed.
Stew (23:06):
So, in all honesty, that was well over a decade ago.
I can't remember what thosevalues were, but what I will
share is that when I left themilitary, I had to do exactly
the same for me, because fromthe moment I left school, I'd
had the values of the Britishforces.
I was like, okay, it's selflesscommitment, it's courageous.
Okay, well, that's cool.
(23:26):
And then I take my uniform offand I go right.
What the far, where?
And over 18 months, over 18months, I established my own set
of values.
So my value?
I've got six.
My values are bravery, tenacity, enthusiasm.
I'm a presence to everyone Imeet.
I'm honest and I act with them.
I'm an inspiration to everyoneI meet.
So those are the six.
(23:47):
Now, yeah, I could pack them upand stick them in a box and
just leave them and go.
Oh, yeah, I've got some values.
But the whole purpose of valuesis that we live them, because
when we live them, we realize ifthe right for us, if the right
for the organization, if they'rejust written and put in a box,
then it doesn't matter.
People will just do whateverthey want to do and human nature
(24:09):
will do whatever is best for us, because it's about survival.
So what we've got to do iswe've got to bring the values to
life.
Now, for me, I've got a book,which isn't on my desk at the
moment, and I write my valuesdown here.
I've got a mantra that I writedown every morning to remind me
of the person that I'm going tobe that day.
What did any?
Nicola (24:29):
of them.
Stew (24:31):
Well, all of them.
So I go through your bravery tonasty, enthusiasm and
inspiration, honest and beingpresent towards everyone I meet
At the other end of the day,when I'm brushing my teeth at
night, looking in the mirror, Igo right, okay, how was it?
How was today?
Were we 100% across the board?
And for the most part, no,because values are something we
(24:53):
should live into.
Values is a challenge to growto the next level of who we can
be or who our organization canbe.
And if we miss that and if wedon't check in, then they're
going to drift and that's whenthat toxic environment starts
happening.
That's when the world goes tome yeah, go on.
Gina (25:16):
It's kind of like you don't want to become complacent.
That's like the opposite ofwhat you're saying and it's like
if you're goal driven and ifyou're working for yourself
which is something that I doit's like the harder I work, the
more effort I put forth into mybusiness or whatever the task
(25:37):
is at hand, the bigger thereward.
So I feel like a lot of thosevalues that you're stating are
just going to come along for theride, naturally.
So, yeah, I mean, I don't knowwhat do you think, nicola?
Nicola (25:56):
I think you know it sounds.
For me it sounds a little bitlike the kind of miracle morning
process where you have thevalues and then you kind of
segment your time up in themorning into kind of the six key
points of writing, reaffirming,you know, thinking, quiet time,
(26:17):
all of those like little piecesto kind of bolster you up
before you get your day going.
But I think when you do thatit's great that you have this
resilience around you.
But when you head into a toxicorganization that is innately
toxic and doesn't give twoshifts about the values that
you're bringing in, you'recoming to crush your soul or a
(26:39):
godless of.
If you're feeling fabuloustoday.
Gina (26:44):
Yeah, I agree, Nicola, because it's like they'll make
you crazier before you canchange them and a lot of
companies, even if you're comingin as a consultant to fix
morale or whatever, they're notreally ready to change.
No, totally agree.
Nicola (27:02):
They know they need to.
Gina (27:04):
They know they need to, but they actually don't want to
hear what you have to say,because reality is too rough or
it's going to take some wind outof their sales, or whatever.
Stew (27:16):
That goes back to a point that Nicola made earlier, which
spoke about your hygiene values.
You're bringing a consultant into do workplace mental wellness
.
Let's call it it's the stickingplaster, as we've got to do
something so that when the shithits the fan, they can say, well
(27:39):
, we did that thing, we did that, so we're a great culture to
work for, rather than actuallydoing the hard work or digging
deeper into.
And that's when I go intoorganizations and I mean one of
our workshops is developingvalues.
Yeah, it doesn't stop withright.
(28:00):
Okay, guys, thanks a lot, thatwas a lovely day.
Thanks for lunch.
You've got your four words.
Let's move on.
This is a deep process thatsounds like the EOS meeting.
Gina (28:12):
Let's have lunch.
Those four words are good,great Company culture.
Stew (28:17):
Yeah, but I mean that's what happens, because there's
something that happens whenconsultants go in, or when you
go in you deliver a workshop, orthe door closes and everyone in
that room agrees that.
You know we're going to do thevalues work we're going to,
we're going to make it happen.
I even turned my phone off andthen then, then, at the end of
(28:40):
the day, the door, or the end ofthe session, the door opens up
and the world hits us again.
Normal daily dying hits us yetagain and you've got all the
emails that you didn't answer,you've got a parking ticket,
you're late for picking the kidsup from school and you forget
everything because automaticallywe go into that survival mode.
(29:04):
Oh, I'm no behind, I've got tocatch up.
So all of the great work thathappened in, you know in that
session, or you know that reportthat the consultants written
after they've been with you, yetnothing more than the top 10.
Gina (29:17):
That's like how do you bridge that gap?
And I think and Nicola and Iwere just talking about that I
think it takes a certain levelof Emotional maturity and being
able to really be honest withyourself about especially if
you're in a leadership positionabout what's going on Like and
(29:40):
not everybody wants to do that,and I think the people who are
in leadership positions, whodon't know how to self assess or
or are willing to face reality,are the most toxic.
And it doesn't matter if you'rea man, woman, whatever.
I just think that that is whatcreates the most toxic type of
workplace.
(30:00):
So it's all good, right, like,you can come in stew and say
like bravery, you know,persistence, enthusiasm being
present.
But Unless the leadership ofthat company buys into that idea
, you're just like basicallyshowing up and saying a bunch of
(30:21):
gobbledygook and then getting atrack and going away and that's
cool too.
I mean, get money, however youcan.
Stew (30:28):
Which is why, which is why I've walked away from the
corporate world, which is why Ido what I do, because I
recognize that, actually, do youknow what I cannot work?
I choose not to work with thosepeople because they are problem
.
I look at it, I look atleadership.
Yeah, I look at, I look atleadership across and I'll use
New Zealand.
But we see it, yeah, we see itacross across the world and,
(30:53):
yeah, it's an echo chamber, andthe evidence of it being an echo
chamber is the challenges thatwe are seeing in our national
leaders.
Yeah, there is that echo chamberof, well, I'm a leader.
That for, therefore, this meansthat and I've got a leadership
coach who tells me these things,which means it must, and it
just keeps going round and roundin circles, and that that
(31:18):
exacerbates the challenge thatwe're all talking about, because
it says it's OK and theleadership of our nations, the
leaders sorry, the leaders inour nations, creates the
leadership we see at every levelacross our countries and it
says it's all right to notuphold our values.
(31:39):
It says it's all right to, youknow, just sort of just brush
over the truth of the matterrather than actually going to.
Now we're actually going to diginto this.
That's the real challenge thatwe're facing.
It's not just individualorganizations that have got a
toxic leadership culture or lackof values within the workplace.
(31:59):
What we're actually seeing isthat it is being led by the
examples we're seeing at thenational level.
And that's whatever that'swhatever colour you vote.
Gina (32:10):
I don't, I like, don't follow politics at all, so I am
not, or I'm not, educated enoughto even talk about politics
Like I let I leave that to thegrownups.
Like I'm coming from America.
Nicola (32:28):
I feel like anything that you do in that space would
be like a hot button topic.
Gina (32:34):
I mean everything's a mess everywhere.
Right now, that's really mypolitical stance is everything's
a mess everywhere, and I'm justgoing to do what I can do to
make my life and those around mea little bit better every day.
What is it that you do exactlynow and how does it work into
your the value thing?
Stew (32:58):
What I do know is I go into, I work with organizations
and individuals and help them toreach beyond.
The limits become unstoppable,and I do that through workshops,
I do it through one to onecoaching and I do it through a
mastermind program where I bringa dozen businesses together and
we work together over 12 monthsto to raise them all to the
(33:23):
level that they didn't think waspossible.
Gina (33:28):
Okay, so can you give us a quick example of what it might
look like?
Stew (33:33):
Yeah, Well, I mean the 12 month program.
I go and actually spend timewith the chief exec and with
with the businesses and and helpthem work out where the next
levels are.
And we've got a number of toolsthat we use to to bring an
(33:53):
organization to where they werereally the board level, where
the governance level thinks theyshould be, but the board
doesn't have a clue about how toget them there.
And, yeah, I just sit there andwork with them and just you
identify the challenges thatthey haven't seen.
So you know if it's valuesbased.
(34:15):
You know the conversation lastmonth with a client who's you
know, and I this is big for NewZealand but a tiny for the US is
650 acre thoroughbred stud farmthey were.
They were going Well, look,this, this isn't working.
Our values are broken.
In fact, we don't have anyvalues.
(34:35):
How do we?
Okay, so we begin to introducethe values concept to them and
go deeper and deeper and deeperuntil it actually lands with
every single member of the team.
But then we also look at well,how does that affect revenue?
What is it that you are doingin your business right now?
That has nothing to do withsales, is nothing to do with
(34:56):
marketing or BD, but the systemstill broken.
How do we unpick that?
And you know, we just slowly,in fact not slowly at all.
We just unpick what's nothappening in the company and
we've seen massive accelerationsin those businesses because
we're not focused on thetraditional bits of business.
(35:19):
We're actually focused on what'smaking, what is the lifeblood
of the business and how do weget people working smarter
together.
So it starts with values, itmoves on to communication and
conflict resolution.
There's a bit of leadership inthere, and then we, we break
down.
Everyone needs a business plan.
So I'm told why?
(35:41):
Why don't we?
Why not instead, do we work ona bunch of priorities?
That causes the business toevolve, rather than everyone
having to face change and nexttime someone comes up with a
good idea.
So we, we, we cause businessesto start evolving in what they
choose to be rather than thetraditional start.
Stop nature of change teams.
Gina (36:04):
Do you know anything about the EOS system?
Have?
Nicola (36:07):
you heard of this.
Have you heard of?
Gina (36:09):
this, because what you're doing, is it just Minicola, or
does it kind of sounds verysimilar, which isn't a bad thing
, it's not a bad thing.
Nicola (36:20):
It's not rocket science, right.
It's been around for likedecades and decades and decades.
Yeah, that process.
Gina (36:26):
And sometimes I feel like it's like a company reset almost
.
But then when you're doing that, is it ever like really
apparent to you like who'sfucking toxic?
And you're like, is it?
Stew (36:39):
Yep.
Gina (36:40):
And what?
Stew (36:41):
do you do with?
Nicola (36:41):
that how do you deal with that?
Gina (36:43):
I mean, like you, sir, are the most toxic human being I've
ever met.
Please leave.
Stew (36:47):
No, the thing is, if you actually land your values
properly, you don't ever have tohave that conversation.
Look, it might come to that.
Of course you might have tohave that conversation, but you
can have a values-basedconversation that causes that
individual to in the most placein the most.
In almost every case that I'vedealt with, the individual
(37:09):
leaves the organization becausethe values are not aligned.
There's only been a couple ofoccasions where we've had to do
a business restructure in orderto sort the problem out.
Gina (37:21):
So I left because so I was so where Nicola and I met, I
resigned and then they found me,and I know to our regular
listeners that are tired of mesaying that it was so boring.
They're.
So they're like yeah, yeah,yeah, we know, we know you're
fucking annoying now, but but Ithink it was like I just was
(37:43):
like this is such a mess and Ican't be a part of it, and like
I knew enough because I hadwhatever 20 years of working in
corporate America and building abusiness from scratch that I
was like this is just a sinkingship, like I can't be a part of
this.
Nicola (38:01):
I wouldn't say that they have values alignment thing
either.
That's a, that's a.
Gina (38:06):
hey, I can see this is not a good thing, but it was values
, right, because their corevalues, as we spoke about
multiple times, were like myths,like they were just like didn't
make any sense, like they werenot, like.
I feel like a core value issomething like always be honest,
you know, like even that's kindof like a hygiene value, but
it's like or be enthusiastic,it's like I can be enthusiastic
(38:30):
but I can still disagree withyou, right?
So it's like it was like beenthusiastic in the way that we
want you to be enthusiastic andI'm like that doesn't work for
me, like that's not a real thing.
Stew (38:44):
And so you?
Yeah, I mean I agree that youleft because your values were so
disparate from the organizationthat you had no choice, because
insanity was the only otheroption.
Gina (38:55):
I was going insane, I was absolutely going insane.
And then, of course, in theirtrue toxic fashion, they then
fired me and gave me severance,even though I like was like I
have no choice but to resign.
So I was like cool yeah.
Stew (39:11):
It's exactly the same reason that I took my uniform
off.
I was at the Royal MercyAcademy at Sanctus, where all
baby officers passed off theparade square and I was there as
a senior officer with all ofthe other ones and I was looking
at it going really all of thebullshit that I'm hearing today,
and this is what you want yournext generation of leaders to be
(39:37):
hearing and to act like and tobe really.
Gina (39:42):
And that was it.
And then you were just like I'mout.
Stew (39:45):
Yep, I mean it took a little while to actually get out
, but that was different in themilitary right.
Gina (39:52):
Like you can't just like be like peace out.
I'm resigning in an email.
Stew (39:57):
Well, you can but it just takes a bit of time to get
through that process.
But that was the moment that Iwent.
Do you know what I'm done?
Because my values no longeralign with what I am seeing and
what I'm feeling about theorganization.
Gina (40:13):
You had outgrown it.
Stew (40:15):
Yeah.
Gina (40:17):
Yeah.
Stew (40:17):
Yeah.
So yeah, I do.
I do think you left becauseyour values no longer who you
were didn't align with thebusiness you work for.
There are probably people inthat business who are going yeah
, this is great, I'm happy withthis, and that's either because
they're completely unconsciousor because they align with those
values.
Gina (40:37):
Yeah, and they like drank the Kool-Aid for so long.
They don't know any better.
Rude, yeah, well it wasdifferent for you though.
Yeah, it was different for you,nikola, though, because you
liked them as a consumer first,true, so you kind of already,
(40:57):
pre you like, pre-ordered theKool-Aid.
Nicola (41:00):
I did pre-order the Kool-Aid.
I made the Kool-Aid at homefirst and then I slipped on the
Kool-Aid and then I got.
Then I like sweat, I barbed inthe Kool-Aid.
Stew (41:12):
Yeah.
Nicola (41:13):
Barbed off from the Kool-Aid and then drank my
bathwater too.
Oh gross.
Gina (41:17):
Nice, but yeah, but yeah, yeah, I mean, whereas I didn't
even know this company existedand I was like what, who are
like?
Who are these people?
But like it's a CPG.
So I'm good, I'm going to begood at it, and I was good at it
, and I was told that I madeeveryone feel stupid.
I'm like, well, I was a bitnervous, I was a bit confused, I
(41:37):
was being mean, but what can I?
I have like 18 years ofexperience.
You guys, don't you either learnfrom it, or you walk around
feeling like you're stupid, oryou ask questions Like what's,
what is the alternative there?
Nicola (41:55):
So many, so many alternatives.
You can leave.
Gina (41:59):
Whatever, but yes to your point too.
Like I was just like this isfucking insane.
I know better.
This is a sinking fucking ship.
All these people are not onlyindividually toxic.
They come together and createlike a toxic, like sludge
monster, yeah, and then likethey're like all on top of each
other and they're like toxic.
And I was just like I don'thave time for this shit.
(42:21):
It's like I don't have time forthis shit.
I'd rather be hungry and haveno like actual real income than
have to deal with this bullshit.
Nicola (42:31):
Yes, so I agree with you on that.
Oh, that's too, that's tooentertaining.
Thank you, Thank you everybodyfor that entertaining piece of
joy.
Anyways, it's you.
So, Stu, tell us a little bitlike what where are some of the
places that our amazing podcastlisteners can find you?
What are some of the thingsthat you can offer them in like
(42:55):
a service, like service wise?
How can you help them?
What are some?
Of the things that they canhunt you down for.
Stew (43:02):
So, first up, Unstoppable Force TV is now into.
It's just launched it lastmonth, so we've got four
episodes up there.
You can find that on YouTube.
My Unstoppable Force podcast isavailable out there.
There will be links to it onthe new website,
(43:26):
wwwunstoppableforceconz.
You can find me there.
You can find me on.
You can find the audio bookLead Through Life on Spotify.
And, yeah, if you jump ontoAmazon, Amazon's got the audio
book, the e-book, the hard copy,the paperback copy, If you want
(43:47):
to look through that.
That's very much a book about aleadership framework that I
developed throughout my militarycareer.
That is now used fromschoolboys to corporate leaders.
And if anyone wants to talkabout values, leadership, jump
(44:08):
on a call with me.
You can jump on the website.
You can book a 30 minute calland we can talk about where you
are challenged in terms ofleadership.
Or if you feel that yourorganization is a little bit
more toxic than you'd like it tobe, especially if you're in a
leadership role, jump on andlet's have a conversation.
Gina (44:27):
I would love to gift our old business a 30 minute call
with Stu.
Stew (44:34):
Well, if they have got the humility and the vulnerability
to take it.
Gina (44:37):
They don't, then they do not.
Stew (44:39):
Then the offer is there.
But the offer is there that youjump on, book a call and we'll
talk about it.
And where might that go?
Well, we offer six half dayworkshops.
Workshops either in person orvirtually.
That cover the gamut ofleadership, communication,
conflict resolution and a valuesframework.
(45:02):
And also the values frameworkincludes the tools you need to
embed those values into yourorganization.
Yeah, that's the work that wedo across New Zealand and a
little bit in the US.
Nicola (45:18):
Fair enough, I love that .
I'm gonna say it's beenabsolutely a hoot chatting with
you today.
Stew (45:27):
Well, thank you.
This always happens on podcasts, which is really cool.
You end up going to some reallyrandom places, don't you?
Gina (45:36):
Some of these are probably the most random I've been.
Stew (45:40):
I have no issue about being lectured about anything,
because if there's anopportunity to learn, I'll take
it.
If I find something of use init, awesome.
If not, I'll come back to youand tell you how my year was and
what I learned from it.
If anything, maybe the thing Ilearned is that I don't want to
ever fast again.
But yeah, we'll see whathappens.
(46:00):
Hey, luke, guys, it's been fun.
Thanks a lot for inviting me on.
Really enjoyed it.
It's been insightful, I'velearned some stuff and I hope
it's been useful to everyonewho's listening.
Gina (46:13):
Yeah, awesome, thank you, you have a wonderful rest of the
day.
Stew (46:17):
You too, bye, bye.
Nicola (46:19):
Thanks.
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