Coming Out

Today we're digging into the topic that every gay influencer on the planet is expected to cover at least once in their online lives - our coming out stories! 

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Come out.

(00:00):
Come out wherever you are.
Have you been thinking aboutthat one for a while?
I've been practicing.
God, your intro to this episode.
Well, We're coming out today.
I've been out to you to I'vebeen out.
I've been done, been out.
I've been done, been out.
But we're coming out again foryou.
That is spooky.
We're going back in and thenwe're coming back out.
Okay.
I'm gonna do like a reveal, likeI'm going back into the closet

(00:20):
just so I can come out for you.
Are you ready?
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
Hi, I am gay.
Whoa.
We had no idea.
Okay.
Oh my God.
Welcome back to our just mostdivine presence.
That's all I'm gonna say aboutthat.
What are we digging into?
Today's episode is long awaited,long coveted cov coveted,

(00:45):
coveted, dunno if that's theright word.
I don't, you've already likecovet your neighbors.
You already know this about me.
I like to come up with randomwords and then put them in a
different place than they belongin the world.
We're gonna talk about comingout today and our coming out
stories and how gay we are andhow gay we've been and how gay
we will be.
Oh my God, I love that.
Yeah.
Peaks pits in the middle part.
The middle part.

(01:05):
What I always say peaks andpits, but rose, thorn and Bud.
The Bud is what you're gonnalook forward to.
Yeah.
Today we're gonna talk about ourrose, thorn, and buds of coming
out.
It's been a really long timesince I came out.
So the, I feel like theinformation I'm about to share
is gonna be very, it's rusty.
Yeah.
I also haven't told anyone thestory to well, should we start

(01:25):
in the beginning?
When did you know you were gay?
A flamer?
No.
Literally when I was like afruit basket when I basket was
at four.
Really?
Like when I could, like, when Ilike first developed the brain
capacity to understandattraction in any way, I was
like, oh, obviously I'm aflamer.
But here's the thing, here's thething.
If we take back to, if we goback way back to baby gay Omar,

(01:50):
I thought for the longest timewhen I was in primary school and
I was like, all my friends aregirls.
And I wasn't hanging out withany of the boys.
I didn't like sports.
I didn't like the traditionalboys things.
And like obviously gender roleswere so prevalent in the
nineties.
I was like, I'm supposed to be agirl.
So when I was like as early asyoung as I think first time I

(02:11):
went to visit my grandparents inPakistan, I think I was like, I
wanna say how old was I in thenew millennia?
eight.
I was seven going on eight.
Yeah.
Or whatever.
Or maybe, yeah.
Yeah.
I dunno how to do math.
I was eight.
Eight.
I was eight.
You were eight.
And then I remember being like,I am supposed to be a girl.
And my mom was like in the placewhere she lives.

(02:31):
She used to, she grew up inPakistan, the place where she
grew up in Pakistan.
There was a lot of shootingstars apparently.
I remember this like veryvividly.
And she would be like, if youwish on a shooting star, like
your wish will come true.
And I was like, I'm gonna I, Itold all my friends guys gather
round.
I was like, girlies, I, Chloe,Bethany gather round.
I'm going to Pakistan and I'mgonna wish on a star that I can

(02:53):
be a girl.
And then.
I'm gonna come back and I'mgonna be girl.
So basically, and that's howthat works.
So basically that's how thatworks.
Woman to man or man to woman.
Oh my God.
That's crazy.
That is crazy.
On the tail end of the Oscars.
How dare you see, I also had theshooting star story, but I

(03:15):
wished for Pokemon.
Oh, I don't like that story.
Yeah, you don't like that story?
No.
It's boring.
It's boring.
No, I remember having this, likemy aunt told me to wish I was
shooting star for something andI was like going home and I was
like, I really like Pokemon.
And so I want a real Pokemon inmy bed when I get home.
In your bed?
Yeah.
Just like hanging out.
Oh, ew.
And little did I know.

(03:35):
It did not happen.
And neither did you become agirl.
Yeah.
I was like, why didn't Itransition?
Hello?
On the plane back from Pakistan.
You're like, yeah.
It was like, am I'm still a boy.
Why am I still a boy?
That's crazy.
This problem.
That's actually crazy.
And then it took me a, I don'tknow, just only a couple of
extra years after that torealize, oh, I am not supposed
to be a girl.

(03:56):
I'm just a boy who's attractedto other boys are just that
boys.
And that's like a normal thing.
I didn't have any queerrepresentation at all, and I
didn't think I saw a gay personon TV until I was like maybe 15
or 16.
So I didn't know what any ofthat meant.
Yeah.
That is Genesis.
Genesis.
You go to bring it back to theBible.

(04:17):
You go, Bible.
Why the fuck would I talk aboutthe Bible?
You just did.
He said, Genesis.
Genesis, why would I talk aboutthe Bible?
Genocide happened in the Quran.
Jews genocide.
The genocide happened.
Genocide.
Hello?
Is it plural?
Me also like, I don't have afucking clue if Genesis happened
in the Koran, in the holy monthof Ramadan that we're currently
think you probably did.
Me being SMUs.
There was a genesis, which is abeginning.

(04:39):
Genesis means beginning.
Like that one Julie Lipa song inthe beginning, God created.
Oh yeah.
Come on.
Okay.
You go.
Wait did Dua Lipa write theBible?
Yes.
She's God.
Wow.
She's a flop.
God.
Hey, do you know the SwiftOlogist on TikTok?
No.
He like talks about like popculture and like music.

(05:01):
The Australian one?
No, he is British.
Mm-hmm.
Oh no.
He is not British.
He's American.
Whoa.
he was like talking about howDua Lipa is like a flop.
And I was like, absolute.
What?
She bought you future nostalgia.
And he was like basically hoingher like an influencer.
She's like an influencer justthat just makes music, which is
completely untrue.
No, you could say her lastalbum, flop, but she flop.

(05:21):
She was in my top art, one of mytop artists last shit.
And said flop a little bit.
Why was she number five for me?
Continue.
I don't know.
Come on.
Let's keep on topic this time.
I grew up in North, I grew up inNorth Carolina in the Bible belt
and I went to church everySunday.
Didn't know I was gay.
I knew I was gay.
I knew there was somethinghappening because I always went
into my sister's room and lookedat her.
Tony Hawk magazine.
That's fucked up.

(05:41):
He was hard at I remember youtold me that he was hard at the
time.
No, I dunno.
He was then back then he washot.
When?
Gimme a year.
When was I born?
1994.
Gimme a year.
Like it can't have been earlytwo thousands, 2005 maybe.
The fact that you were born in94 Yeah.
And like your, like actual yearsof life didn't really happen
until after 2000.
Yeah.

(06:02):
Do you remember how in 2000.
Yeah, I was in first grade.
Maybe.
I always think I was in firstgrade, but maybe I wasn't.
I dunno what age that was.
Because you were six, seven, youwould've been seven.
Right?
So that's first grade.
So by the time I was eight andtrying to trans transition, I'm
trying to transition man.
A woman, you stop.
You were looking at Tony Hawk.

(06:23):
Yeah, Tony Hawk was hot.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I had a Tony Hawk phase.
I would look at my sister's TonyHawk little magazines and I
would be like, oh my God, he isso hot.
It was like the shirtlesspicture of him, like holding a
scope, holding a skateboard.
And then I would go to Kohl'sand I would wear like the no way
hair comes.
He was kinda hot in the day.
He was like hot for like me aslike my first, like that is

(06:44):
Dweeb.
I'm so sorry.
No, but Dweeb type, Tony Hawkshirtless.
Oh God.
But not now.
'cause he is ugly.
Yeah, I'm, he's not ugly.
He's just, we just age.
Okay.
I mean, I'm pretty sure he wasugly back in the day, but like
he was my first guy that I sawand I was like.
I like that.
Ew.
I don't like the search that'scoming up.
Was it this photo?
Was it this photo?

(07:04):
Yeah.
No, it did it.
Ah, it was this photo.
It did it this photo.
It was this photo.
That's crazy.
It did it.
Oh my god.
Ew.
No, it it kind of did it at themoment, at the time, yeah.
When like Skinny was in, when Ididn't have what, like 2005?
Did I have access early twothousands?
Did I have access to a searchengine then?
No.
Probably not.
So I was looking at magazines.

(07:25):
Yeah.
So that as we all were Right.
So I was like, what does mysister have in her fucking
little basket?
Calvin Klein section at Oh yeah.
That was also, I was gonna sayGeorge Asda.
Whoa.
No.
Coles.
Yeah.
Or Matalan.
Whoa.
Sure.
Cultural divide.
That's so, I knew I was gay, butI didn't like, know those words
until like I was like, 18.

(07:47):
I was like, yeah, there'ssomething there.
And then I would type likezaffron shirtless onto Google.
That's ye that comes yearslater.
Yeah, I know.
We're in the genesis right now.
I know.
I'm just thinking about all themen.
I typed blank name, shirtlessblank name, shirtless, blank
name.
Shirtless.
Yeah, that was, and then myfather probably saw this as soon
as the internet came about.
Oh my God.
When did the internet come?
When did I start being oncomputer?

(08:07):
Well, my brother, my olderbrother, I have two older
brothers.
My old, how do I describe themas the older one?
The old, not the oldest one, butthe second older one.
The one closest to me, thesecond oldest, one second older
brother.
Yeah.
You are the third oldest.
He's the second oldest, yeah.
Yeah.
Fucking hell.
Okay.
He had discovered like me, likeblah, blah, two boys kissing.
He was like, him and his, himand my cousin, him and my, him

(08:30):
and my cousin.
So he knew I was gay before Ieven came out to anyone.
That's embarrassing.
I was like, what?
12 maybe.
And he was like, oh, like reallyembarrassing.
Your search results did he justcome into your room and say I
found this?
No, he was just like.
I think so.
Maybe.
No, he didn't come into my room.
I think we was like arguing andhe was like, you're a fucking
widow.
And I was like, Hey.
And so don't tell mom, don'ttell Mom don't.

(08:51):
Please don't tell mom, don'ttell.
Mom's gonna be kissing.
That is literally that videothat girl, she's don't tell mom.
Yeah.
Anyway, we fast forwarded alittle bit.
There's like a d there'sexcruciating detail to go
through.
This is just, I also wannapreface this as we're still in
Genesis, that this isn't gonnabe like a mushy gushy.
Wha Wha Where I'm so upset.

(09:12):
Like my life was so hard.
I'm crying.
No.
Coming out story, there's a lotof trauma behind it.
Sure.
But we're making light of it.
It's humorous.
There's enough fucking YouTubevideos about people crying about
their coming out stories.
Go watch those.
We did them and we delete them.
And embarrassing.
They're promptly private on ourYouTube.
Deleted.
Deleted.
Also, I like clickbait the shitout of that video.

(09:33):
I made it in 2000.
In 2019 and I was like, gay andMuslim question mark.
Can I survive?
Can I survive?
Question mark.
And it was so like we all did.
Oh we all did.
God, we all did.
The views were high.
The views were high.
We love a coming.
I used to hate comments, butwe're trying to make this, we've
dealt with all that and I don'tneed to cry about it again.
It is what it is.
And now Genesis, was that yourgenocide?

(09:53):
That was my genocide.
How old were you when I knew I,not saying genocide, it sounds
like another word.
Oh, I'm trying to say Genesis bythe way, but like a funny way of
saying octopi octopus, genesis,genocide.
Yeah.
Gen doesn't work.
Sorry.
No, sorry.
Everyone.
Sorry.
What age?
It was a fluid time.
I don't know what age.
I said Okay.
I wanted to transition when Iwas eight.
Come on.

(10:14):
Figure out.
Yeah.
You were more confident than me.
Yeah.
No shit.
You grow up in the city.
I grew up in the town.
I fucking grew up.
I grow up in the city.
Yeah.
I grew up in the burbs in thecity.
I grew up in the field.
born, I grew up around cows.
Also, now that we're still inGenesis, let me also emphasize
the fact we both grew up in veryreligious homes.
Correct.
Our parents were both extremelyreligious.

(10:37):
Yes.
Mine were Muslim and his wereChristian.
Could you imagine?
Mine were Muslim.
His were Lutheran.
Lutheran.
I mean, they are, They are whatthey are still.
Yeah.
I talk about them like they'reon all their deaths.
Both still are.
So that was really hard for me.
It really wasn't, honestly, Ifeel like that had a huge impact

(10:58):
on maybe the way that I.
I feel like, I don't know if itdid that much.
Like it did what?
The religion?
Yeah, the religion.
It was like obviously a hugefactor in like the way that
everyone dealt with informationthrough the coming years of me
and being homosexual.
Mm-hmm.
Um, Homosexual.
Homosexual you don't think ithad that much of an impact on

(11:18):
you?
No, it definitely did, but atthe same time I didn't really
care.
Ah.
Everyone was like, we are Muslimand this is wrong.
And I was like, I don't give afuck.
You were very headstrong.
And are very headstrong.
Yeah.
And you were so we should getinto it.
I feel like a lot of people askme, I think'cause it's so rare
to see someone who's openlyqueer.
Like I didn't see another gay,brown, Muslim, platinum haired.

(11:40):
Platinum haired at the time.
Fuck me.
Person in media or justanywhere.
until the first season of QueerEye in Tan France, which is like
crazy.
'cause that was what, 2018?
17 or 18, yeah.
Last year.
That's, don't say that again.
That's crazy.
That is so wild to me.
so I was like, oh, it'simpossible.
It's completely impossible.

(12:01):
And I think it's very importantto not only provide a space for
people.
Like I feel like I didn't planfor this when I first started,
like creating content or likebeing like, I don't know, just
public in, in some capacity.
In a small, in the small waythat I think I am.
It reaches people and I thinkit's really it's so helpful to
see yourself represented insomeone.

(12:21):
And even if I'm not like, loudlytalking about my upbringing and
like my Muslim background andall of this other shit, I'm
still here.
My name is still Arabic and I'mstill like thriving.
Just by being myself.
And I think that's important.
So that is how.
It ends.
Obviously I'm here right now,thriving, but it came out to my

(12:44):
first friend.
That was my next question when Iwas when I was, I wanna say 11
or 12.
Crazy.
I'm in high school now.
That's crazy.
So I'm thinking about boys in mymind I'm like, I like run away
from boys in the playground.
In primary school.
But the things didn't start todevelop until I was in high
school.
And then after my first, I thinkfirst year of high school, I

(13:05):
think it was like towards theend of that year, or maybe it
was the end of my second year ofhigh school, because I think the
following year I came back, Iwas like a little bit nerdy and
I didn't really have like Yeah,you first, in the first year I
was like, still going to likemosque after high school.
Every day.
So I would go into school andthen go home, get ready for like
Islamic school mosque, and thengo to mosque and read the Koran

(13:27):
and learn about Islamicteachings and stuff.
And then be like such a littlegood boy.
Yeah.
Until I was 12.
Yeah.
And literally something flippedin me puberty like I told my
friend in high school at the endof, I, I'm sure it was, I
remember it being the end of theyear'cause it was like
summertime, like everything wasgreen and smelly and I just
remember it so well I was like,oh my god.

(13:49):
PE teacher.
Mr.
P.
Teacher is so hot.
I have a crush on him.
About the teacher.
The teacher.
And I'm like, I'm 12.
Do I?
Do I have a chance?
Crazy.
I mean, Maybe a crazy.
And so I was like, this iscrazy.
Like I am telling someone thisand I'm like, oh my God, he's so

(14:11):
cute.
And what'd she say?
She was like, oh my God, he is.
And she was so supportive andshe didn't tell anyone all
summer.
And then all of a sudden I came,I actually don't even know how
it happened when I came backfrom my third year of high
school.
Like I was in year 9, What agewere you?
Because you saying high schoolis different from me saying high
school.
Oh, I was 12.
Okay.
I was 12.
So middle school.
and I came back for the new yearand then I was like, I was just

(14:32):
different.
I like, I'd spent the summerbeing like a, I was just
different.
I was different.
I spent this the summer being abit of a diva, and then I came
back, like I used to wear myfirst, like two years of high
school.
I would wear my uniformproperly.
Like I was like such a goody twoshoes.
And then I didn't really doanything like bad or anything,
like getting attention would'vemade me cry.
I would've gotten like upsetabout it and then it came back

(14:52):
for.
Third year of high school.
And then I was like, let me besuch a diva.
And I started wearing my tie lowand my shirt was untucked school
uniform.
And I belly wear my blazer.
Like I was being such a diva.
And I was like, oh.
And I didn't even really have tocome out to friends.
Like people would just ask meand then I'd be like, yeah,
obviously.
And then I was the talk of thetown obviously, obviously.

(15:13):
But then I really played into itlike, I think because I was so,
like, I didn't give a fuck.
I played into the stereotype somuch.
'cause I was like, I'm havingfun and I wanna be gay and I
wanna be visibly queer.
It was not single other gayperson in my school.
And there was like a thousandpeople at my school.
So you got a lot of attention.
And I loved detention attention.
And I loved attention.
Oh, I thought you saiddetention.

(15:34):
I got detention too because Istopped wearing my uniform
properly.
Oh yeah.
And also there was one fuckingdickhead teacher.
Mr.
Fucking Parker.
No.
Mr.
Parker.
Fucking day.
Count your fucking days, bitch.
Every time I'd be on my phone, Iswear he's homophobic as fuck.
'cause when I started likelooking visibly gay at school,
and I'd be like in the quad withmy like phone chewing my chewing

(15:56):
gum with my phone out.
And then he'd like always,people would have their phones
out all the time and he'd snatchmine.
Yeah, snatch mine.
And then he like gave me thissob story once.
He was like, my wife went intolabor and I couldn't have my
phone, so you shouldn't beallowed to have your phone.
And I was like, Hey, this soundslike a big fat.
You problem.
I don't care.
Shut the fuck up.
What does his wife out be?

(16:16):
I'm 13.
Give me my phone back, bitch.
What does his wife being inlabor have to do with anything?
I don't know.
What a freak, Mr.
Parker.
What?
Also I'm like, are you trying tolike make a 13-year-old, feel
sorry for you?
Like I don't give a fuck.
Literally.
You're like, what is labor?
Yeah.
Yeah, labor.
I don't know her.
Did you never have a girlfriend?
No, I didn't have a girlfriend.
I did.

(16:37):
I had two duet tell me, I hadtwo girlfriends.
My first girlfriend was inmiddle school, which was like,
what is high school?
14 to 18.
That's crazy.
18.
You graduate for me and go tocollege.
High school is 11 to 16.
Yeah.
So you have some weird numbers.
I don't know.
14 to 18.
Yeah.
So middle school was like 12 to14.

(16:58):
Was when I had a girlfriend.
14 to what?
12 to 14.
12 to 14.
12 to 14.
Oh, I was a big flavor by then.
I was, no, I was a nerd.
I was a nerd.
and I had an archeological bibleand I I was like in, not
Catholic school, but likeLutheran version of Catholic
school.
I was like trying to be an Aacolyte and I was like learning
the 10 commandments and shit.
So I was like a good Christianboy still by like middle school,

(17:19):
by like the start of highschool.
Honestly.
I was like still really good.
And I was always really good.
I was never like bad.
I think when you have this likereligious upbringing and like
before you really come out likeballs to the wall you like are
such a goody two shoes.
'cause I did the same thing.
I was like, I'm gonna be so likewell-behaved and like I love
going to the mosque.
I love to pray.
Yeah.

(17:39):
And then I all of a sudden I waslike, wait no a minute.
No.
I know.
Yeah.
Mine was a bit more delayed thanyours.
You ended yours earlier than me.
But my girlfriend in middleschool.
Your girlfriend?
My girlfriend, we just We wouldjust hold hands and just be
close to each other.
It was the most like gay bestfriend relationship ever.
I remember like walking and wehad a campground in North

(18:00):
Carolina where we would hang outand it'd be like a, in the
summer you'd go to thecampground and everyone would be
there and I would be there.
And remember this first time,like I held her hand and I was
like, oh my God, I'm holding herhand.
This is so crazy.
It was like, I was like makingout with her, but it was like
just holding her hand.
Did you make out with her?
Did you make out with her?
No.
What a loser.
And then I had a secondgirlfriend for two weeks, and
then I really realized I wasgay.

(18:20):
And this was like sophomore yearof high school.
I dated her for like two weeksand I was like, actually, I've
realized.
How did you realize to yourselfand then who was the first
person you told?
I realized to myself when Blainekissed Kirk in Glee shut up.
I was already in college bythen.
Are you fucking kidding me?
How old were you?

(18:41):
18 was when I came out to myfirst friend.
17, 18.
17, 18.
That is crazy.
1718 was when I came out to myfirst friend.
No, obviously you told me thisstory like a billion Jill times.
Yeah, but it is like late.
I like forget it's not late.
It's I think I'm crazy comparedto No, compared to me.
Everything's late.
Yeah.
But that's crazy.
and then like a junior year andsenior year of high school.

(19:01):
I was like a gay.
And then I also came off to myparents.
Well, We'll talk about parents.
Is that when you went to NewYork and you wore that scarf?
Yes.
That was sophomore year flame.
I think I was, I think that was,I was still, when I was dating
that girl and I went to New Yorkand wore this, put it on the
screen, this beautiful outfit.
Oh my God.

(19:22):
And they said, that's a straightman.
No, it's a bender.
A bender.
A bender.
A bender.
Oh my god.
See the British um, Britishslurs, slow words.
The British slow words for a gayperson, they're so much better
than the US ones What do wehave?
Flavor.
Are you bent?
I'd be like, every time I'd walkdown the corridor at high
school.
In high school, someone would belike, oh, are you Ben?

(19:45):
I like that.
Are you a bender?
That's fun.
Bring it back.
Fudge packer.
Oh, I like that one.
That one's good.
I feel like that's a veryAmerican one actually.
We just have no, we just haveflamer and flamer.
Fruity and flamer is such aAmerican Forget.
Oh yeah.
Forget time.
Say that one.
Can't say that one.
Can we now forget?
Sorry.
We can say forget.
We can say forget.
Yeah, we can say forget.
Okay.
Fun And now we've come to ourparents.

(20:08):
Have we yet?
Yeah.
I think we can come to ourparents and yeah.
I think in my mind I wanna, I'mlike, when did I reconcile this
with myself?
And also like religion.
Acolyte what?
Acolyte.
Acolyte.
You were an acolyte.
Acolyte.
A what?
Apostle?
No, an acolyte.
You just dressed up in littlerobes.
It's a very gay thing.
You dress up in little robes andthen you go and light the

(20:31):
candles on fire and then you gobefore the pastor comes on, he
does his little preachy and yougo and sit down and then you
hold the book, the Bible for thepastor.
That sounds like witchcraft.
I'm not gonna lie.
It pretty much is, but reallyboring.
Really boring, rich witchcraft.
Oh.
'cause you also told me likeLutheranism is like Catholicism,
but without the gold.
Yeah.
That's so boring.
It's like stone and boringchurches.

(20:51):
Stone.
Yeah, brick.
Like the church stone.
Yeah.
The churches are made of justlike stone and brick and it's so
boring and then you just singthe worst hymns ever.
Oh.
With the worst organs And allold people.
No one's young.
There were like 10 people inthis fucking church.
Oh wow.
I had there was like a good likemaybe 70 people at my mosque.
I think there used to be morepeople and then they either A,

(21:13):
died or B.
Okay, good.
Went away.
Perfect.
Great.
Love that for you.
Well, So you didn't mention thefact that you grew up in the
tiniest town in the world.
Did I not?
No.
Yeah, I grew up in a farm town.
Farm town.
Conservative.
No, this is very important tothe story.
What, how many people live inAlba, North Carolina?
The amount of people who live inCatawba City, North Carolina

(21:33):
City.
The amount of people who live inCatawba Town, North Carolina,
Catawba County, North Carolinaare different.
'cause there's Catawba Town inCatawba County.
Gimme the lower number.
Catawba Town is a hundred, 109hundred, sorry, 900.
Back in the day it was 600.
No, it was 900.
It's 600 or 900 people.
Yeah.
Very small little tiny town.

(21:53):
I think its crazy that like yougrew up in a town like that and
here you are.
Oh, from the small town to a bigshady.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
It's like a Hallmark movie.
But reverse.
It is reverse.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Why do they do that in Hallmarkmovies?
That's so boring.
Sorry.
People love the idea of goingbackwards.
Going backwards of resending.
Yes.
Because they've never had traumain their lives as devolution.

(22:13):
which is also why they walkslower than us.
They do walk so slow becausethey've never had to run from
trauma.
That is so embarrassing.
Yeah.
Okay.
before I came out as actually atthe same time as I came out as
gay to my parents, I came out asnot believing in God.
Same.
Yeah.
Which was really like a doublewhammy.
It's like a really, actually, Ithinking back on it, I'm like,
that was like kind of mean todo, but maybe I shouldn't do it.
Shouldn't have done that.
Yeah.
But I was, and like I was in APbiology in junior year of high

(22:35):
school and then she was talkingabout evolution and I was like,
this makes sense in my head.
The fact that you actually grewup thinking that God created
That's crazy.
Yeah.
In seven days.
That's that.
No girl.
Like he was productive.
Yeah.
No girl.
And I was like, girl, no.
Yeah.
For the most of my life I waslike, this makes so, makes

(22:56):
sense.
Wait, you were like, you were inalso, is it bio?
It's not biology.
It's the big bang.
Isn't that like physics or shit?
No, I was talking aboutevolution.
Oh, is evolution.
Oh yeah.
Five valid, wouldn't it?
Maybe you should go back to myevolution is, I remember when I
was in high school, I was like,I really love planets.
Like the solar system and likelearning about that.

(23:17):
Yeah.
But the science that thatcategory fell into was physics.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
As, yeah.
Yeah.
Physics and astronomy.
No,'cause we had chemistry,physics, and biology.
Yeah.
But the, yeah.
But then the plans would go intophysics probably.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And chemistry.
I was like, I don't wannafucking use a bunsen burner.
Yeah.
Fuck chemistry.
It's so annoying.
Chemistry is so hard.
And then biology, it's like, whyis this frog on the table?

(23:38):
Loved biology though.
Okay.
Anyway.
Let's stop detouring God brains.
Well, That's when I realized Ididn't believe in God.
And then double whammy.
One, two punch.
Parents religion.
One, two punch.
Do you have something else tosay about religion?
Let's go back to Islam.
Girl, we're gonna Islam.
I was waiting for that one.
So girl, we gonna Islam.
Back when I lived in Islam, I Iwas born in Islam, so I grew up,

(24:02):
so you can say that I grew up ata very young age.
That's, Very religious, all of asudden gay.
And I'm like, none of thisaligns.
None of this aligns.
It does for some people.
Now let me preface this bysaying, if you're listening to
this and you're like, you can begay and Muslim.
Yeah, I believe you, you can dowhatever the fuck you want.

(24:23):
No one's here to tell youotherwise.
For me, there are so many peoplethat have been like, ah, you can
be, you're like deterring peoplefrom Islam.
And I'm like, this is my fuckingstory.
Shut the fuck up.
Okay.
People love to censor themselvesand people love to send to
themselves.
Also ever since I like boughtthis information or this story
to the internet all those yearsago, the online Muslim community
to their detriment.

(24:45):
Are so mean.
You still get comments on thevideo?
Oh, all the time.
All the time.
All the time.
Like that you made this videoago.
I don't like, I'm not like apracticing Muslim.
I grew up in Islam and I have,my entire upbringing was through
the mosque.
And I, in my mind, like there Iguess I guess you would call me
an ex-Muslim, but I don'tbelieve in God.
I don't believe in religion atall.

(25:06):
I just don't, so when people sayoh my God, are you Muslim?
I say, no, because I'm not apracticing Muslim right now.
And I'm not going to be sorry.
And someone's in my DM the otherday'cause I was posting about
food in the middle of the dayand someone was like, you're not
doing Ramadan.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway, that's actually how itbegan.
I was in high school, 13, 14,and it was like Ramadan time.
And I was like, this is a very,is this the story?

(25:27):
This is a really pivotal moment.
No, I'm not, I'm not tellingthat story.
I'm not telling that story.
Not telling that.
That's a good one.
It's so bad.
It's a good one.
It's such a bad story.
Maybe subscribers, only content.
No.
Oh my God, that's such aterrible story.
It's not gonna get me canceled,but like I've told my friends
and they're like, it's such abad, it's like I was such a
little shit.
I was such a little shit.
I would say we all were, but Iwasn't really.

(25:48):
So it was my coping mechanism.
Okay.
Yeah.
So anyway, Ramadan time, whichis quite pivotal.
Pivotal, quite ceremonial.
Important, Important to rightnow in the moment.
'cause we're in Ramadan.
Correct?
I was like let me pretend tofast.
'cause like I still had to wakeup.
I was still very young, so I'mlike, my parents want me to wake
up and fast.

(26:09):
And so like, how am I gonna saylike, I don't wanna do this
anymore.
then I would wake up and then Iwould like fast and then open.
Like close my clo, open my fast.
Close my fast.
Yeah.
I'd wake up and then before thesun rose, eat my food, go to
school.
And then I would like secretlygo eat in school.
And before you judge me, so manypeople do this.

(26:29):
So many people did this back inmy day.
So many people did this.
So many people do this.
My brother did it.
We all did it.
It was a thing that we wanted todo.
'cause we didn't wanna fast, butwe didn't know how to tell our
parents.
It's a lie that we told.
I'm like, oh, they come homefrom school.
I'm like, wow, I'm so hungry.
That was a really hard one.
My mind is so clear and I feelso close to God.
Yeah.
Literally.

(26:49):
I'm like, meanwhile I've beensmoking cigarettes behind a
hamburger in your stomach.
I've been like smokingcigarettes behind the like
school shed when I was like 14years old.
I know.
And like eating pepperoni pizzain the school cafe.
That is my God.
Ziggy's at a pizza.
Ziggy's At a pizza.
Yeah.
I reconciled this in my mindvery early on.

(27:12):
'cause I was like, this is, thisseems fun to me.
And all my, I'm like makingfriends with like only white
people.
Yeah.
Because I grew up, my highschool was fully fully white and
there was like a few south Asianpeople.
Yeah.
And I had like my girlfriendsthat were South Asian, but our
like values just stoppedaligning.
Yeah.
Obviously.
'cause I was being a degeneratethen like I was just like

(27:34):
drinking and smoking.
At the age of 14.
All of a sudden I was like, thisseems so fun.
I bequeath you Islam, you Islam.
And so in my mind I reconciledthat like quite early on and I
told, I think my brother, likesecond oldest brother knew by
the time I was 14.
So timeline wise, came out to myfirst friend when I was like 11,
12.

(27:54):
My brother knew when I was 13,14.
The rest of my family, I toldwhen I was like, I wanna say 15,
16.
So I'm being a degenerateobviously.
You just heard about that.
It was my coping cope.
Can I fucking speak fucking out?
Am I about to crash out?
as you heard, I'm being adelinquent, a degenerate, I'm
like, why am my, am I, why am I,can I fucking speak?

(28:19):
Why are me and my.
Family members are not gettingon so well.
My mom's really sad and annoyedat me that I'm like leaving the
house or like I'm lying aboutwhere I'm going.
I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna gospend, I'm gonna go to my friend
Paul's house, who was a boy.
'cause I'm a boy.
I'm supposed to only be friendswith boys.
And like, I would sneak out tomy girlfriend's house.

(28:39):
We weren't allowed to havegirlfriends.
'cause you know, you're straightand you'll get them pregnant.
Big scary by just looking atthem.
Yeah.
Big scary mom thoughts.
Yeah.
Little did she know I'm goingaround and she's doing my
makeup.
like first like really closehigh school best friend, me and
her.
We just I would go to my friendPaul's house and then walk to
Rachel's house.
It was not close.

(29:00):
And I would walk my ass overthere.
And then walk myself back overto Paul's.
Mm-hmm.
I think one time, like my momwent to Paul's, or called Paul
and I wasn't there.
Oh, Paul's a real person.
Yeah.
I thought you made up Paul.
No.
I thought you made him up.
He was pretending to go toPaul's house.
I thought you made, just likeyou were like, I'm going to
Paul's house and you're reallygoing to Paul's house, yeah, I
was like going to her house andshe was doing my makeup and I
was like 14, 15.

(29:21):
And it was so fun.
I was like, oh my God.
I've always wanted to like, havea girlfriend and we would watch
movies and we would paint eachother's nails and very nice.
And then I would make sure Itook it all off and before I
went home and one time my momclocked me with makeup on and
when I was like four again, 15or something and was livid.
Bear in mind, hijabi woman, I'mcoming home with a little bit of

(29:42):
smudged eyeliner on my face andshe's like, what the fuck are
you doing?
You piece of shit.
And I was like.
You don't get me.
I'm like, mom, I wanna go tofashion school.
You don't get me.
I'm not your little girlanymore.
That was me crashing out at 15.

(30:03):
She was like, you're a psycho.
Who have I raised?
I didn't raise a girl.
I raised a boy.
And I'm like actually you did.
Yeah.
The shooting stars said, soactually I wished upon a star.
There was also another thingthat happened in my brain that
like, I remember being, when Iwas young, my mom had two boys
and then she had me and sheprayed for a girl.
She wanted a girl so badly, shenever got one.

(30:25):
Spoiler.
Wow.
She never got one.
No.
Literally.
And they joke about it all thetime, still.
I know.
Now that we're friends, theyjoke about it and she's like, I
always wanted a girl.
And when I was, she was pregnantwith me, she paraded the house
down, boots that I'd be a girl.
And then I came out jazz hands.
And I was like, flamer, sorry.

(30:45):
And she was like, oh, no,disappointed.
And then I was like, little did,Chino was, it was close enough.
You got a gay, it was closeenough.
You got a homosexual.
And then, yeah that led me tocoming out when I was still in
high school.
I, I was 15 at the time.
And I was in high school and Iwas like, my parents, we are not

(31:05):
getting on.
Me and my mom like barely speakand I'm living in her house.
And I'm like, it's creating somuch angst and stress in my life
and she's trying to ground meand tell me that I can't like go
see my friends and I'm like,jokes on you.
I'm gonna do it anyway.
I don't care.
so I was like sneaking out andstuff and like our relationship
was rocky and in my mind I waslike, you don't get me and this
is why.
So I was in my like home ecclass with my girlfriends around

(31:28):
me and I'm like, let's write aletter to my mom.
And so I like wrote a letter orletter her out.
I spent all of Friday, like Ididn't do was so dramatic.
I know.
Yeah, I know.
Dad.
I spent all day, it was aFriday, I spent all day crafting
out this like handwritten noteto my mom and it was like, you
don't get me right now.
Like we aren't getting on andit's because I'm gay.

(31:52):
Did you actually do that?
Dot Dot?
Yeah.
I was so dramatic.
I was I was like.
This is how we've been gettingon like feeling at the moment.
I was like, therapizing her.
I was like, this is the reasonwe have Minging on.
It's because you don'tunderstand me.
You don't see where I am rightnow.
And where I am is out of thefucking closet and then diva.
Oh, it's like one of thoseletters that you open in the

(32:13):
song plays and it's like, I'mcoming out.
That's exactly.
Because you, that's what Iimagine.
I've, I should have done that.
Fuck.
That's what I imagine.
I should have done that.
I went to the store and got oneof those cards and like, I I
should have done that.
M gay.
M gay.
When we talk about crashing out,Venus is in retrograde right
now.
Mercury is about to be inretrograde.
I'm about to crash out.
My mom had the worst crash outin known to Humanity when I came

(32:34):
out to her.
Mm-hmm.
But I've been talking for enoughtime.
So now it's your turn and we'llget back to me.
It's suspense.
It's suspense building.
You do have a lot of words.
Also, I love the drama.
This is so fun for me.
My fucking YouTube video that Idid in 2019, I was like crying.
I was like, oh my, actually Iwasn't crying'cause I don't cry.
I cried.
I don't cry on camera.
That's so embarrassing.

(32:55):
You did cry.
I remember you crying.
I did cry.
It was emotional at the time.
I also wonder, I'm like, wedon't need to be emotional, like
things are emotional.
Sure.
In this podcast, the backbonesof it are comedy.
I'm not gonna sit here and liketrauma dump and cry to you.
That's so embarrassing.
What I'm gonna do is make fun ofit.
I did not come out to myparents.
I was kicked out.

(33:16):
No, I was forced out.
I was almost kicked out.
Boop Ooh, ooh, diva.
Um, I was kind of forced outtathe closet.
What when was this?
This was senior year of highschool, I'm pretty sure.
Senior year of high school.
I was up in my room doing myhomework, doodling, doing
whatever I was doing, talking tomy friends, high school things.

(33:36):
my, my dad he called it from thestairs.
And he was like, Matt, come downhere right now.
And I was like, okay, whatever.
I walked over to the door and Iwas like, what the fuck do you
want dad?
No, I was not.
I was not at shut up.
You wouldn't.
I like to pretend.
No, I like to pretend that wasmore of a rebellious team, but I
wasn't, no, I wasn't.
I was a goody tissue, so I waslike, yes, dad, what do you
want?
And he was like, you like, yes,papapa, you cold.

(34:00):
And he was like, he said, Ithink he said you're not like
this are you?
And I said, what?
How do you know?
I said, what?
I'm getting there, it's calledsuspense.
And he was like, you're not likethis are you?
And I was like what are youtalking about?
And he was like, I saw somethingon the computer and I need you
to explain it to me.
You're not like Elias, or you'renot like them or something And

(34:21):
he was like, he found somethingon my Facebook account.
I had liked a video from a gaycouple that I was following at
the time.
I had liked a video from a gaycouple that I was falling on
time on YouTube Because you likewas so into YouTube.
Gay couple culture.
Yeah.
It was the first, my firstexposure to gay people.
Yeah, because I didn't have anygay people around me in high

(34:42):
school.
Maybe like one framer, rookiema.
Rookie mistake, liking a videoon YouTube.
I know, but I didn't.
I don't think I knew that itcould be as opposed to me two
boys kissing.
No, I was definitely doing that,but I erased my history.
I didn't know how to do that.
You just click, erase yourhistory back in my day.
No, you couldn't do that easily.
It's not very two years youngerthan me.

(35:03):
Yes, it was.
So when I was doing that was2000 and like two.
Okay.
Or three maybe.
I erased my history, but I didlike something on Facebook.
The two guys in doing theirlittle things.
Facebook.
It was like, I think it was likea status update or some shit.
Oh, okay.
I don't think crazy.
It was like a, or like theyshared the video on Facebook and
I liked it.
I don't know.

(35:23):
And he was like, you didn'tlike, I don't know how he found
this one random like that I did.
Maybe it went on my what is,that's time.
What did you call the feed?
Yeah.
News.
Yeah.
Newsfeed.
Timeline.
No, timeline.
It was timeline.
Facebook timeline.
Yeah.
So you used that was the, andanything you liked just came up.
Yeah, it'd be like, oh, MattBenfield like this.
It's a dumbest feature ever.
Yeah.
So he saw that and then he waslike, you're not like this.
Why are you?
And I was like, maybe.

(35:43):
Yeah, I guess so.
And he was like, what did youactually say?
I think I said, yeah.
I was like, I was gonna come outeventually, I think I was
waiting to like, leave foruniversity.
I think it was like right beforeI graduated high school and I
was like going to leave foruniversity.
And then I was gonna say, myplan was like, I was gonna say
like, I'm gay, go to university.
Dunno how I was gonna pay for mycollege if they, if they, if
they, it was like a badresponse, but I was gonna cross

(36:05):
that bridge when I came to it.
there was a big yelling match.
I went outside and I was likecalling my friend.
I was like calling my friend atthe time who knew I was gay.
I was like, can I come and stayat yours if things go south over
here?
it is like a really sadactually, but like I can make
fun of it now.
I know.
She was like, yeah, of course.
'cause I was like, had a coupleof friends that were like.
Cool with me.
Being gay.
And then went back inside.

(36:26):
I think they had simmer down bythis point.
It was like hours after ouroriginal fight.
And I just left and I was like,I'm not gonna deal with this
right now.
You can deal with your shit andthen I'll go outside and deal
with my shit.
And then I came back in and thenwe didn't speak for two weeks
like silence, just not gonnalook at your way, not gonna look
my way.
We're just gonna move aroundeach other because everyone's
awkward and know we What wereyou off to university?
This was like my last semester,so I think it was like a couple

(36:49):
more months.
And then I was off touniversity.
'cause no one in my family couldtalk about their fucking
emotions.
So we were just like goingaround the topic.
And then I remember being in myroom two weeks after the two
week mark, I was in my room.
I was like laying down doingfucking homework.
I don't know.
And then my dad came in, he waslike.
You want go therapy?
And I said, no.
And then he left.
And then another two weeks wentby of not speaking.

(37:12):
I was like, that was a greattry, dad crazy.
Offer me psychological help fora nons psychological issue.
Crazy.
now thinking back on it, thiswas like over a decade ago, at
the time they had no educationor idea of how to deal with
something like this.
'cause they were raised, howthey were raised.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
two weeks after that, they saidthey brought me down.

(37:32):
They were about to have aconversation with me and they
said, we're okay with the gaything, but not with the God
thing.
Oh no.
And I said, I don't know what totell you.
Both are gonna be here for awhile.
Then it after that I was likeyou said you're okay with the
gay thing.
But it's been a while.

(37:54):
And the only in the past twoyears have they come around to
the gay thing for like a decade.
They didn't mention the gaything or like ask if I had
boyfriends or ask mygirlfriends, they literal acknow
my existence like two years agomaybe.
Yeah.
Two or three years ago.
Which is great'cause we've beentogether for almost eight.
Yeah.
So it took them a while toactually be okay with the gay
thing and we'll come to liketheir presence right now.
that was like 18 and it tookuntil like probably 28 for them

(38:17):
to actually start recognizingyou.
Or like that I was gay or that Ihad a boyfriend.
Because remember you made yourlike YouTube video in 2019 too,
and you were like, there is noresolution here.
We don't speak about, we don'tspeak about that.
It was like, that was like putbehind a wall.
Yeah.
And like you can't reach it orlike behind a safe and they were
like, we'll deal with it later.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And later never came.
'cause we actually still haven'treally talked about it, but it's

(38:39):
just like they have come totheir own conclusion that
they're fine with it.
And that they like you rightly,they like me as gay, apparently
as a parent we've never met, butthey've, I don't think my
parents have I don't think mostof my family, it's like a
southern thing.
Like not being able to like,speak about your emotions
properly.
Totally.
To not like, actually show whatyou're feeling and like actually
have the words to communicate.
They like the emotionalintelligence to communicate how

(38:59):
you're feeling on the inside.
Meanwhile, like I'm from afucking family of talkers.
That is crazy.
But that is my story.
Yeah.
That is my story.
It's not anything crazy becauseI did think I was gonna get
kicked out.
Like I really did think it was apossibility that I would get
kicked out.
But I didn't.
Oh.
Because I think I was tooheadstrong at that point.
'cause I was like, you're notgonna fucking kick me out.
I've not heard this story in solong.
I'm like, sad.
No.
Ew.
I'm like, sad.

(39:20):
Sad.
No.
It makes me sad a bit.
I'm about to tell my story.
In a non sad way.
It was terrible at the time.
Let me start there.
Okay.
I wrote Revelations, I wrotethis Revelations, chapter three,
revelations.
I crafted this note to my motherand then I went home, packed a

(39:42):
few bags of clothes.
'cause I knew for a fact Iplanned for it.
I asked my friend if I couldstay at her house.
She asked her mom if I was, itwas okay for me to stay there
for a couple of weeks.
I had researched if I can findcouncil housing.
'cause I knew one girl in myhigh school who like had a
council flat because her parentswere like, I don't know, on
drugs or some shit.

(40:03):
And I was like, I feel like Icould do that.
That's what I could do.
There was like council flats,like close-ish to my house.
I was like, I wouldn't have toleave the neighborhood.
It'd be so great.
I could still keep going to myhigh school, whatever.
Packed my bags, wrote this note,left it in the kitchen and I ran
away from home.
Drama.
Drama.
What?
So you love drama?

(40:24):
I'm so you love the drama atall?
So dramatic.
So dramatic.
And what did my mom do find?
It immediately starts calling meon my mobile, on my Nokia.
Calling me and I like put myphone.
I turned my phone off and then Ilike, apparently they're like my
brother and my mom.
They're like, are driving aroundthe neighborhood, like looking
for me.
'cause I've obviously gone byfoot, right?

(40:44):
But I take the back roads.
They're like, I knew that theywould, I had a feeling that they
would, my brother.
You made a movie in your headabout this.
I know.
My brother text me and he waslike, okay, we're on the road.
We're like going around lookingfor you.
Do you want to be found?
And I was like, no.
Oh my God.
And then I was like, let me takethe back roads.
And then I like did, I took allthe back roads and hours passed.

(41:04):
All of a sudden I'm at my friendRachel's house, her phone rings
and she answers the phone.
Hello?
Yeah.
Hands it to me.
And I'm like, fuck.
She like redialed numbers on thelandline that.
Weren't anyones that she knew.
You might think you're smart,but your mom's smarter.
My mom's a genius.
She's literally like in anotherlife.

(41:25):
My mom is a detective.
Yeah, for sure.
She is a crazy person.
And so found me at my friend'shouse using the landline, which
is crazy.
Crazy.
And then like me and her went toour other friend's house'cause
we had plans.
I was like, I got plans.
Sorry.
I was like, I actually had plansthat night.

(41:45):
So I was like, I wanted to likestill go to my other friend's
house and like you with your bagfull of like scarves.
I'm sure.
Yeah.
I like, I was like, let me takemy accessories.
That's like mostly the onlything I took with my accessories
and I was like, this will feedme.
Did you take any snacks?
No.
Oh, you literally just takeaccessories?
I didn't take any food.
I took some clothes I took.
I didn't even take my schooluniform.

(42:05):
This is the gayest running awaystory I ever heard.
I didn't take my school uniform.
I was like, if I have to, if I'mbeing kicked out of my house,
I'm not gonna, I'm gonna go toschool on Monday.
And this is Brian mind.
This is Friday night.
So you were gonna go party.
Yeah.
I was like, I'm gonna go to myfriend's house.
She found wine.
This is why gays will notsurvive the apocalypse because
we do shit like that.
Yeah, I know.
I mean like survival instinctswere strong.

(42:26):
Like I did the thing for myself.
Anyway, it was all very scaryand like terrifying at the time.
It's funny now.
yeah, my dad came to the fuckingloser.
My dad came to pick me up at myother friend's house and then we
didn't really speak on the drivehome.
And then Yeah.
Dropped me off and then wedidn't, I didn't speak to a
single member of my family allweekend.

(42:48):
And it was my oldest brother whoapproached me first.
'cause my second older brotherremember, knew already.
My oldest brother had no ideaand he was on like the path to
be to being like super, superreligious.
He was like such a strict olderbrother.
So strict.
And there was only like a threeeight age gap.
Quick spark notes.
My dad's a piece of shit hate.
We all hate, not because he washomophobic or anything, he's

(43:09):
just a terrible person.
No one in my family speaks tohim.
He just sucks.
So because of that, my olderoldest brother took the mantle
of being like a parental figure.
I fucking hated that.
I was like, you're annoying me.
it was that moment when I camehome that weekend when me and
him like fully spoke heartedlyabout life and stuff and we just

(43:31):
like really didn't get on verywell at all.
And it was that moment thatchanged that.
And he like really saw me and helike had his own.
Realizations about life andchanged his life trajectory
because of it.
And so influential.
And if he's listening to this,it's you're a piece of shit.
Literally.
And then I spoke to my mom.

(43:53):
So this was, that was a Fridaythat, that all happened, weekend
happened.
Didn't speak to anyone untilSunday night.
And my mom was like, this can'thappen, blah, blah, blah.
I don't give you permission tobe this way.
And I was like, I girl diva.
I wasn't asking for permission,but like fully, I was like, I
really don't care what you say.
Yeah.
But I was also at the time whereI was like, I'm scared.
I don't wanna get kicked out andlike actually be homeless.

(44:14):
'cause that's, it's crazy.
Right.
It was very like very possibleAnd then I was like, let me.
Fight.
Let me fight.
We spent hours just fighting andfighting and fighting and
fighting.
And she was like like you can gosee a doctor, like you can get
better.
And I was like, not the therapy.
Fucking, oh, love that one.
Crazy.
It was so crazy.
A couple like weeks, months,however many, however long the

(44:35):
time period was go by.
And my mom like, there is likea, an imam like a religious
leader who will like, who wantsto talk to you.
Like it's not gonna be anythingcrazy.
Like he just wants to just he'slike a child psychologist.
Bullshit.
That's what she told me.
Liar.
And I got in his car and we likedrove around.
Spooky.
It was really spooky.

(44:55):
Honestly, this, if I ever had amoment in my life where I was
like, maybe I can like open mylike mind and like heart to
Islam again after having dealtwith all of the trauma of
growing up in this religion.
And being different.
And being ostracized for it.
I will also preface this.
the part of the story that Ididn't mention is like, growing
up religious, I have so manyfamily members and all of my

(45:17):
cousins, like ostracized me.
Like not a single person, gave ashit about me.
It was crazy.
Apart from like my close, likegirl cousins who I love.
Anyway, this man takes me in hiscar and then this is like weeks
after this, like weekendhappened and he's like, I've
seen this happen to a lot oflike young men.
Were you like molested as achild?

(45:37):
Oh, by a man.
This one of the main ways thatthis happens to young boys, that
they think that they're gay andthey're not.
And I was like.
Are you fucked?
I was like, it was in thatmoment I knew that.
I was like, nobody here has mybest interests at heart.
I fucking hate everybody.
And now I'm about to go.
If you thought it was off therails before, I'm about to go

(45:58):
even more off the rails.
I did.
And it was perfect.
And it was like my truly mylike, coping mechanism to go out
party.
Like I was 16, 17 now, like I'min sixth form college.
And I'm like, I don't give afuck about any of you'cause you
clearly don't give a fuck aboutme.
That is like not, that is notputting my like, wellbeing or
like my best interest at heart.

(46:20):
And I realized in that moment Iwas like, I have to take care of
myself and if I'm allowed tostay in this house, which is
thank God.
Okay.
But you're doing the bareminimum.
I'm allowing me to stay in yourhouse.
Thank you.
Do you want me to like.
I'm not gonna be like, oh, thankyou so much for not kicking me
out.
You did the bare minimum.
We didn't speak for two yearsfrom that point.
From that point.
No.
It's crazy.
From that point to like when Igraduated, when I moved to
university, when I moved toLiverpool, when I was like 18,

(46:43):
we barely spoke.
No.
Two years is crazy.
No, it was, oh, maybe it waslike three years.
'cause I went to college for thecollege part.
College in the UK is not collegein the us 16, 17, 18.
I am like living at, my mom'sstill going to school and
partying.
Like I'm out all the time.
I'm staying with friends.
I'm barely home.
Like I'm being a delinquent.

(47:03):
like, we slowly I think I forcedmy lifestyle.
I really did force my lifestyleonto her.
Mm-hmm.
So she was just like, I eitherhave to get over it a little
bit.
And she wasn't.
And she was completely unhappywith it.
Me, like sneaking bottles ofalcohol out, like down the
stairs, like all these likeglass bottles, like clanging
together.
And she's like, where are yougoing?
What is that?
And I'm like, nothing.
And I'm like running away beinga diva basically.

(47:24):
And it was my coping mechanismand I I had my friends and
that's how I survived and itreally made me who I am today.
'cause I was truly hand onheart.
The most unapologetic version ofmyself I've ever been in my
whole life was when I was like16, 17, 18.
And I look back at that versionof myself and I'm like, I'm so
proud of that version of myselfbecause I wouldn't be here

(47:45):
without that person.
So how did you come back?
Like how did your mom comearound?
I was little cunt and then Imoved to university.
And then we really weren't likethat close.
I think we were like forming acloser relationship.
'cause I think I was gettingolder and I was like, I wanted
to invite some of my friends tomy house sometimes.
And like my mom was there andshe'd like she was, it was like
nice.
Like she was meeting some of myfriends who maybe were never

(48:08):
welcome round before.
Some of my girlfriends, forexample.
Who in a Muslim house.
Like we weren't allowed to havegirlfriends, but then she was
like, obviously thesegirlfriends are not gonna be his
girlfriend.
Mm-hmm.
So they're just friends.
They can come about.
By this time, my oldest brother,who was also coming through his
realizations and like being alittle bit more like.
I don't know.
He was like, he didn't reallyhave girlfriends either.
He just started like expandinghis world a bit more.

(48:31):
My other older brother starteddating a white girl.
Like I really set off a chainreaction, I think it just
slowly, like the three of usstarted doing our own thing and
my mom was just like, I have toget used to it.
There's nothing I can do.
She was, we argued still.
It was anger.
It was a lot of frustrationinvolved in those three years.
But then I moved to universityand I think that helped us get
closer.
'cause we weren't living in thesame house anymore, so we would

(48:52):
let call and catch up and stuff.
And then we formed a slowfriendship again.
And then I graduated universityand moved to Australia.
Remember?
and I think the distance made uslike closer in like a friend
friendship way.
But we never spoke about the gaything.
We never spoke about it.
It was something that was never,ever talked about.
and it really wasn't untilagain, I think maybe the last
few years or so, like we starteddating.

(49:15):
She met you.
She would give me funny eyes.
She met you in 2018.
And like the first time you camearound I could see, she knew, I
knew she like made like funnylittle eyes at me and I knew she
was okay with it.
'cause obviously she wouldn'thave allowed you to stay at our
house.
And In my room.
In your bed.
In my bed.
Literally when you first came tostay but we never spoke about

(49:37):
it.
It was just like nevermentioned.
And then she mentioned it to mybrother once years ago.
Yeah.
This is maybe I'm gonna say fouror five years ago.
Yeah.
I wanna say probably maybe thiswas like 20 19, 20 20.
She like mentioned it to mybrother once, or like he
mentioned it to her and she likeacknowledged it and it was like
a completely normal conversationabout the fact that we were

(49:59):
boyfriends and we livedtogether.
And then he messaged me and hewas like, this is crazy.
We've just had a breakthrough.
We've had an open conversationabout you and Matt.
And I was like, shut up.
That's crazy.
we never spoke about it up untilthat point.
And then I think we were leavingin Toronto and I remember I
called her on the phone and Iwas like, I was so nervous to
bring it up.
I was like.
So you know about Matt, don'tyou?

(50:19):
my brother told me you had thisconversation and so I just
wanted to have a conversationwith you about it.
And she was like, yeah,obviously I know.
And then I was like, oh my God,okay.
Crazy mom that this is just likerandomly happened and like we've
never spoken about it.
And she was like, I didn't wannabring it up because I didn't
want you to get mad and likewhatever.
'cause we used to fight abouteverything.
Like she used to bring things upor try and I don't know, we were
just like butt heads all thetime.

(50:41):
But then we just had this momentlike pre pandemic where we were
like, I see you, you see me.
We've both come a long way.
We haven't really spoken aboutthe trauma that happened in
between.
And like I can't hold any likehatred and resentment in my
heart because she was young.
She moved to Pakistan.
She moved from Pakistan to theUK when she was 16 via arranged

(51:03):
marriage.
And then popped out three kids.
And then another one 10 yearslater.
Before she was even like dirty,like my age.
She had three children.
So I'm like, I give you like somuch grace and have so much
empathy for like your situation.
I understand where she camefrom.
She was able to grow, learn, andjust evolve as a person and had
her own journey, which I won'tspeak on right now, actually

(51:26):
probably ever.
'cause that's her own story.
And she had her own journey todiscovering herself and her life
and just like how she stands inthe world and now for fucking
besties.
And I love that bitch so much.
And she loves him maybe a littlebit more than me.
No, she's my mom.
That's my mother.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Sorry.
Yeah.
That's the whole story.

(51:48):
Whoa.
Yeah.
Whoa.
Crazy.
Oh my God.
That was exhausting.
I saw something on TikTok thatsaid.
It's your parents' ex first.
It's your parents' first time.
And that makes me cry.
It's your parents' first timeexperiencing life too.
And I was like, oh, I know.
Was a few.
I think I saw that like a coupleyears ago and I was like, this
makes me sad.
Yeah, so sad.
Like when I think about the factthat this is also my mom's first

(52:10):
time living so sad.
This is my first time living.
Yeah.
This is also my mom's first timeliving so sad.
So I'm like, oh, what if we wereto like cut our parents a little
bit of like grace and like alittle bit of slack.
Yeah.
Let me still cry now.
Sure.
The trauma traumatized mesignificantly and like I was in
therapy for a while and I waslike, this is freaking me out.

(52:31):
Oh my God, there's so much,there's so much more that went
into it and my parents' divorcehappened like shortly after.
It was a crazy thing.
At the same time, as you'redealing with all the trauma, you
have to decenter yourselfsometimes.
And I think we forget about thatand they're coming out stories
like, it's not all about us.
It's not all about us.
Like we did go through someshit.
But our parents also wentthrough.
But when you're young too, whenyou're young, like 16, 17,

(52:52):
you're like, it's all about me.
When you're, When you're like,it's sad I'm not, when you're
really, when you're reallycrushing out, you're like, it's
all about me.
You don't understand me.
Yeah.
I am the most person in my worldright now.
Basically, the world doesrevolve around me.
None of your views are worthy,valid or valid.
but again, I think it's becauseyou like, the older you get, the
more you're able to empathizewith your parents and yeah, I'm

(53:13):
in my thirties now and I'm like,oh, my mom was just trying the
hardest with what littleinformation and resources she
had when your mom was 33.
How old was your old oldestbrother?
My mom had my oldest brotherwhen she was 17.
Yeah, so I can't do the math.
3, 13, 16.
He was 16 when she was 33.
Wait, I didn't even think aboutthat.
So like right now you wouldhave, like right now So when my

(53:36):
mom was 35, I was being a littlebitch, like almost just two, two
and a bit years older than you.
That's crazy.
Now that is crazy.
Could you imagine how you would,you, you would be reacting or
like dealing with shit likethat.
me, like telling my first friendin high school that I was gay.
Yeah.
Or I liked the PE teacher andlike Googling two boys kissing.

(53:57):
My mom was my age right now.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
You gotta cut some slack.
We gotta cut our parents withlittle slack.
Yeah.
This is called maturing.
This is called maturing.
It's called being in yourthirties.
Yeah.
Do you know why is I think ifeverything, like everything that
has transpired, everythingthat's gone down, if I was to
hold as much like hatred as Iprobably could because of
everything that went down andthe details of things that

(54:19):
really weren't reconciled.
'cause a lot of stuff was justlike she got over her stuff just
because she decided, she justgot over it.
In her head.
And your parents have decidedthat they've gotten over stuff
mm-hmm.
in their head and not spoken toyou about it?
Not spoken to me about it.
And you're just supposed to meetthem at the point that they are
now.
And give them Grace A.
Little bit.
I think you have to'cause it'slike we're not gonna go back
there and rehash all of that andYeah.

(54:40):
And probably would be healthy,but we're not gonna do that.
Yeah.
It depends on how much closureyou want.
Yeah.
I'm fine.
I'm fine.
It depends how much closure youwant.
I'm fine.
Then great.
We're fine.
Then great.
We're fine.
My life is great.
This is what I mean.
I'm like, here we are on ourlittle podcast.
Yeah.
Filming in our little studio.
I'm like, I don't need myparents to be at Pride Parades.
Totally.
I don't need my parents to beworrying about rainbow colors.

(55:01):
Totally.
I don't totally, I don't need myparents to be like, oh my God, I
love you Gay Sun.
I'm so proud of you.
Gay sun.
Yeah.
I don't need that.
I don't crave that.
Like I have a parent then.
That's great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't need them to be like,it's great if you do have
parents who are like at Prideparades and like being so like
Yeah.
Yeah.
Loving.
I think like when the you growup and you like have this.
Experience in life and you'relike, I don't need all these

(55:22):
people, have supportive parentsfrom the minute that they come
out, which is fantastic.
As everyone should, I wonderwhat that's like and I wonder
how much that would've formed mylife a little bit differently.
I don't actively think Iwould've changed it'cause it,
nothing could have changed.
Things happened the way thatthey happened.
I'm in the position I'm in rightnow because of it.
And I'm grateful that I wasn'tkicked out.
I'm grateful that my mom had herown journey to like

(55:44):
self-discovery.
Yeah.
In a world where she didn't haveanything to go off and as a
woman married to a Muslim manand like the patriarchy that
surrounds that kind ofrelationship.
Mm-hmm.
She became her own person andformed this independent life
that she has now.
And I really think a big thing.
I think this was my closureactually, that I'm gonna say

(56:06):
this was probably my closurewhen I came back home from
university.
My mom told me that she wantedto file for divorce for my dad.
And she was like, you've seenlike the world, done so much
already and like you're only 22.
She was like, I've not done anyof that.
And I wanna do something with mylife And then I was like bawling
my eyes out.
I was like, that's really crazy.
And it was like a really healingmoment for me.
To have her say that to me.

(56:27):
Oh my God.
And then my dad crashed out.
'cause he apparently thought itwas my fault that we were
getting divorced.
And I was like, you cuntiactually.
Go fuck yourself.
Ugh.
And there it is.
And there it is.
Revelation.
Revelation chapter.
Revelation chapter 13.
Ended.
Exodus.
Exodus.
That's the beginning.
Yeah.
Oh, was at the beginning.

(56:47):
It's not right.
Genesis, Exodus.
I thought Exodus was at the end.
No.
Genesis and Exodus.
that was a great coming outepisode.
Yeah.
Whoa.
We came out and I'm never goingback in.
I only went back in once.
For you not going back there.
I started out, I started outthis episode.
Very out.
So you and a girlfriend?
No, we had to go back into the,we had to open up the little
drawer and go in.

(57:07):
Just like drawer hang out.
Hey guys, I'm coming out thedrawer.
I am so small.
Where do we think, oh my God.
We open the drawer.
Spec of dust flies up a mad.
I am.
That's me.
I'm so sad.
Where do you think the termcoming out the closet came from?
Like the closet.
Like where did that come from?
That's crazy.
'cause gays would hang out withtheir accessories in their
closet.
No, that's not true.
That is not true.

(57:28):
Where did you have a betterguess?
The, yeah.
Google will tell me, won't it?
Where did the term, Coming outof the closet come from.
Yes.
Google AI overview tells me, oh,period.
The phrase I love Gemini.
The phrase coming out of thecloset originated from the
concept of debutante ball of ade.
Oh my God.

(57:49):
I did not expect that.
Of a debutante ball where youngwomen would be formally
introduced to society,essentially coming out into
society.
Thus borrowing the metaphor ofstepping out of a private space
to reveal oneself publicly.
In this context, the closetrepresents the act of keeping
one's sexuality hidden, similarto a secret kept in a private
room.
Oh, wow.

(58:09):
Debutantes.
Oh my god.
Wait, they need to do that onBridgeton.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
That's great.
Crazy.
I love that.
The more you know.
Okay.
That is so wild.
That was a lot.
My brain hurts a little bit.
Well If you enjoy that episode,please leave us a review on
Apple Podcasts.
Follow us everywhere Peaks, pitsand, no, shut up.

(58:30):
We're not doing that again.
No, this has been a long enoughepisode.
I am done with you.
We've been filming for 75minutes.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
I'm over it.
We don't even have time fordinner.
Table game.
I need you to get the fuck out.
Yeah.
But not before reading us onApple Podcast.
Thank you for trauma jumpingwith us.
Join us next time for anotherdrama dump session around the
dinner table.

(58:50):
We'll see you goodbye and begay.
do you know those people who saybe gay and do crime and
millennial fucking phrase, thereis literally a fucking on yeah.
16th Street.
There's a duck.
There's a Oh, what you call it?
The millennial goose.
LED goose.
Yeah.
Millennial goose in someone'swindow.
Yeah.
Be gay.
Do crime.
And it's like a goose, like neonsign thing.
If that's yours, disgusting.

(59:11):
Put that away.
Disgusting.
Put it away.
Put that away.
Bye.
I have to go and lobotomizemyself now.
Goodbye.