April 3, 2025 • 48 mins
The world is a crazy place and we can't make it through without our best girls in our corner. This week we're digging into friendships - how we've made friends in new cities, queer friendships, and more!
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Let's Dig In: @letsdigin.podcast
Matt Benfield: @mr.benfield
Omar Ahmed: @omarahmed.co
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What's the kind of ship that cannever sink?
(00:03):
What's the kind of ship that cannever sink?
You're looking at me like I justtold you something so asked you
something so crazy.
I've never um, what's a ship?
Is it a joke?
What's the kind of ship that cannever sink a friendship?
Ship A friendship.
Oh, are you dumb?
Maybe a little bit.
Are you dumb?
A friendship.
A friendship.
Did you look that up?
(00:23):
No, I think it's, did you lookup dad puns, sponge Bob or
something?
I've never heard that.
Oh my God.
Hello.
You've never heard that?
I can hear that in his voice.
A friendship.
A friendship.
Okay.
Hi everyone.
Yeah.
Welcome back to another episodeof Let's Dig In where we're
digging into.
Obviously shit.
Oh yeah.
The friendship episode.
(00:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sure.
It was a friendship episode.
Friendship.
There was a rainbow.
The big rainbow.
The big rainbow.
That said friendship right ThereWas FIR.
No, that's campfire song.
Oh, C-A-M-P-F-I-R-S-O-N-G Song.
Fuck.
Enough.
I enough.
Enough.
I take full responsibility forsetting off this episode in a
SpongeBob manner.
SpongeBob manner.
You did this to yourself.
Okay.
(01:04):
We're gonna talk about friendstoday.
Friendship.
Friendship.
Girls, we are your friendshipgirls.
We are how we made friends.
Who are our friends?
Who are our friends?
Not who are our friends.
Imagine if you're our friendlistening.
Turn away right now.
This isn't for you.
This is for strangers.
This is about you.
We're talking shit.
So I mean, I might talk a littleshit.
Fuck off.
I think it's so important.
(01:25):
So one of the things I wanted toreally talk about, I think it's
so important like, friends areso important.
No.
One of the things I want, whenwe were like setting up this
podcast, we were like thinkingof like topic ideas and just
like how to, how we, what we'dwanna talk about.
One of the key themes or likemessages in my life as of late
has been building communityfriendships.
How do you make friends in a newcity?
(01:47):
And we move around a lot.
Mm-hmm.
We have, we've moved around alot.
So how are we finding peoplethat are like-minded?
And how are we engaging incommunity building because it's
a lonely time in the world.
Oh my God.
A, the world is crazy, as in theworld is having a lonely time.
Well, A is A, the world iscrazy.
B, it's hard to make friends.
(02:08):
C, everyone's on their fuckingphones.
No one's going outside anymore.
I sound like a boomer.
D people aren't going out.
You sound like a no.
T like Gen Z isn't going out.
They sa They're staying insidefucking, they're staying inside
and cleaning.
I saw a TikTok.
A girl was like, why isn'teveryone, no one going out
anymore?
Everyone's just like stayinginside and cleaning their
apartments on the weekends, likehow we meet people.
Fun.
I know.
That's I love that.
(02:28):
'cause I'm 30.
But like this is them talkingabout like 23 year olds.
No, I was out every day.
I know you were out.
friendship, who is your firstfriend?
Who is your first friend?
The first friend I can ever,like I can remember in my life
is someone from my, I'm gonnasay nursery.
Like preschool.
That's nice.
You remember that far?
I remember only because ofphotos I've scenes.
(02:49):
So it like jogs memory.
Oh yes.
When I was like, I don't know,maybe three or four, five.
Wow.
I dunno how old you are then.
But he used to wear a Casper.
Tisha, he has, there's fivephotos of him in my, like the
Ghost album, the Ghost Casper,the Friendly Ghost, yeah.
I just call him Casper.
Oh, that's nice.
Maybe he was a dead child.
Maybe he was just the ghost of adead child.
That would make sense for you inyour journey?
That really would make sense forme.
(03:10):
Yeah.
For you to be my life friendswith a ghost in the beginning
outta my life trajectory.
Yes.
My first friend was a ghost.
Yeah.
This would make sense.
And now here I am.
Okay.
Anything else about Casper thatyou remember?
Are you real?
Probably not honestly at thispoint.
I know.
I think he was just my firstlittle white friend and then Oh,
of course he was white Casperthe ghost.
Yeah.
And I dunno if I had many otherfriends that were little white
(03:31):
boys growing up.
Okay.
I dunno.
That's fine.
Did I'm just trying to thinknow.
'cause all my friends were girlsthen.
Oh yeah.
All of my friends were girls inschool.
See, I didn't really have thatmany girlfriend.
Girl, girlfriend'cause you hadgirlfriends'cause you was too
busy getting girlfriends.
I had girlfriends, but I didn'thave girlfriend.
I did have girlfriends startingin like middle school.
(03:51):
I think I fear, I think in theelementary school you say I
fear.
I fear.
I think in the elementary schooltimes I had boys as friends,
boys who were never friends,boys were never friends.
No, they were boys were never myfriends.
They were kind of friends.
No, even like my cousins, like Ifeel like, I'd say that my
cousins were my first likefriends growing up.
If I'd had to pinpoint a timewhere I like was friends with
(04:13):
peers, my cousins.
But they were girlfriends, theywere my girl cousins.
I wish I had cousin friends.
I didn't have cousin friends.
Which is crazy because you livein a family with I have a
billion people in my family.
Yeah, exactly.
So like, but like none of themlike a couple of them were in my
age.
Are any of them gay?
Do you know if any of yourcousins are gay?
Is there anyone else in yourfamily that's gay?
I don't know.
Recently, probably.
(04:34):
There have been some that cameout, but the ones that I look,
the only time I saw my cousinswas during Thanksgiving when
like 70 of my family cametogether during Thanks
Thanksgiving.
And there would be like twogirls that I would hang out
with.
We weren't like friends.
Like we never hung out outsideThanksgiving.
It was like a once a year thingwhere I saw'em and they were
cool.
Okay.
we sat down, had Thanksgivingdinner.
I would sit down with them.
We would play like pool.
We would go out in the, to thebar and No, this tells me a lot
(04:56):
about you.
No, this tells me a lot aboutyou.
I, because I feel like when Italk, when I think about like
friendship Yeah.
And like the meaningful ones inmy life, they started in like
high school.
I had like meaningfulfriendships in high school.
That got me through high school,got me through coming out, got
me through everything you'veheard about in the last like few
episodes.
Yeah.
Got me through everything andI'm like, I boil my success in
(05:20):
adolescence to the girlfriendsaround me.
Friendship, community building,dad, girlfriends.
In high school they were all inchorus, like it was all my choir
and theater friends.
The eye roll that you can't hearthrough the podcast just
occurred on Omar's face.
They got me through all of thetraumas of high school, all the
singing.
Oh no, that wasn't the traumaticpart car.
All the Greek club drama.
(05:40):
No, the gay shit.
The gay shit, yeah.
They helped me out.
Yeah.
It was good.
high school is hard enough as itis, so you have to have.
A close group of girls andthere's like, you know, you have
to choose.
Did you have, like, were theylike jocks and like music nerds
and not really.
I feel Not really.
Some of the most popular peoplein my school were like.
(06:02):
Clowns.
Like the class clowns.
Class clowns are differentthough.
Yeah, they can be popular.
Yeah, I know, but they're like Rthe edge.
No, they wasn't really theyweren't like jocks or That just
doesn't really exist in likeBritish high school culture
especially prefer, especiallylike British.
Like public school culture.
Yeah.
It's just who is like the chast?
Who is like the, like who is theone that's gonna be like the
(06:23):
worst?
You've seen skins.
You've never seen skins.
I've never seen skins.
So who's gonna be like the mostlike belligerent, who's having
the most parties, but likeanyone can come.
Oh, that's nice.
Where were you?
You were popular, weren't you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you bully anyone?
No, I wouldn't bully anyoneunless they tried to bully me.
Ah.
And then it would be like that,that one scene in Pose.
Were you like the Oh what?
(06:44):
What TV series?
Sex education.
Okay.
Where there's the one gay guywho's friends with the two
popular girls.
Yeah.
Was that you?
Yes.
No, not really.
Okay.
No.
'cause I feel like that's what Iimagine you as no.
Because like I wasn't friendswith there was like a.
If you were to say like thepopular like girls, they weren't
really.
There wasn't really like onegroup of them.
Because they were a little bitlame as well.
Like thinking back about,thinking back on it.
(07:05):
Well Back then.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
No one could dress and everyonewas ugly.
But then it would be the girlsthat would come to school with
like their, like hair backnodded and like full face of
makeup back nodded back.
They're like back comb theirhair.
Oh, ew.
That was like a full trend.
I remember that.
Yeah.
The back combed hair and then somuch makeup.
Oh.
But like they weren't reallylike cool.
(07:26):
They just.
They were chubby.
They were just chubby.
Okay.
This is the thing, thepopularity was like, who could
win in the fight?
Oh, that's fun.
And maybe that was my schoolferal, actually.
That was my school who could winin the fight.
And if you could win in thefight, you probably the most
popular.
Is that just your school or isthat a UK thing?
Probably public school.
I'm rough.
It was the public school systemthere'd be like a text blast or
(07:46):
like someone, there'd be a rumorbe like, oh, there was a girl
called Carly and she would getin so many fights.
She was pretty popular.
Oh my God.
'cause no one would wanna sayanything to her because.
Yeah, she'd beat you up.
Ooh.
And I wouldn't wanna get on bad.
It feels very primal.
Yeah.
I wouldn't wanna get on a badside, so I'm like, mean.
Carly were tight.
What was the text blast?
If there was gonna be a fight,she'd beat the shit out.
(08:07):
People after school you sent atheir text blast about fights.
Yes.
Get with the program.
We didn't have that.
Yeah, well you were a loser.
I probably didn't get the textblast.
I was probably left out of this.
No, people used to get intofights all the time and it
would, and that would determinepopularity and you would just
stay on the side of the peoplewho would win the fights.
(08:27):
Friendship.
Did you grow up in ancient Rome,French?
Yes.
Sparta.
I only got the chain messages,if you don't send this to 10
people Oh yeah.
Your aunt will die.
Oh yeah.
Oh, I get them on MySpace blood.
Oh.
Space does kill me.
Love MySpace is friendship.
We could talk about friendship.
Yeah, we could talk aboutMySpace.
And you like could prioritizeyour friend list on MySpace and
(08:49):
then you'd be like, actually no,this person's my new best
friends.
I'm gonna put them on numberone.
Yeah, because you could likeprioritize your friends on
MySpace.
How bitchy was that?
That's crazy word.
How fucking Cty was that featureon MySpace where you could be
like.
This person's my best friend,but then this person's my second
and third, and everyone couldsee it fourth and fifth and
sixth, best friend.
And if you decided one week,you're like, actually, I'm
(09:10):
really vibing with this personmore.
And you would move them around,move number six out.
You'd pull so many fights.
You'd have so many fights.
You'd go to school on Mondaymorning, you're like, why'd you
move me?
On MySpace.
I see that I'm number two now onyour friends list.
I'm not gonna lie, I don't eventhink I did that.
I don't think I had enoughfriends to like fill those, fill
those six.
Oh, that's sad.
I can't remember my space.
Like I know I had MySpace so,but I can't remember
(09:31):
conversations like this and I'mlike, oh, I just wanna give you
a hug.
But I know me and high schoolwould not be friends with you in
high school.
Oh no.
You wouldn't be at all Fuck up.
I remember my space, but I don'tremember putting like
friendship.
I remember aim more so like Iwould aim A-I-M-A-I-M messenger.
WhatA-I-M-A-A-O-L-A-O-L-A-O-L-A-O-L
(09:53):
Messenger.
Okay.
Did you not have that?
It was MSN.
Oh, you had MSN?
No, we had a OL.
We are cool.
Okay.
You're were the uk It wasdifferent.
Yeah.
I don't know if you had a OL.
We had a OL.
I had like a L as my Internet.
So you have a L messenger.
No, I use MSN.
Oh, I use a OM messenger.
I don't know what a is.
You would MSN When we were inhigh school and then all of a
sudden I was in college and itwas BM Oh, you was a BMI didn't
(10:16):
BMBM in the shout people BM thatshit bb m in the shout of
people.
I wish I had a BMI was so likecrunchy at the time.
It was so me and my black peoplebold.
I'm like, okay, listen.
So cool.
When you were about to have anargument with someone, I broke
up with a boyfriend once in atuni.
Over BM Messenger.
And I was like, I was visitingmy friend in Sheffield and he
(10:37):
was just being annoying as fuck.
He told me he dropped out ofuni.
And I was like, you're a loser.
You're a loser and I'm gonnadump you.
And I was like, hold my drink.
And I'm like, click cl clackaway.
I'm on BM on my Blackberry bowl.
They were like raised, they werelike raised kind of things,
weren't they?
Yeah.
Raised letters, friendship.
It was very like nice breakingup with someone over BBM.
(10:59):
I had a razor.
Oh, that's cool.
No, I didn't.
Oh, that's a lie.
I wish I had a razor.
Are you okay?
No, because I only got the onesthat's, you had such a sheltered
upbringing.
I did.
I know that you have had a verysheltered upbringing, and
whenever I talk about storieslike you've seen sex education
on Netflix, you've seen skins.
My high school experience, likemy college experience was very
(11:20):
similar to like this.
We would go to parties, we wouldget wasted really young.
Friendship there weren't reallythat many like cult groups of
friends like that stuck tothemselves.
People like bled into eachother's groups of friends all
the time and it was like a veryfun, like school was social as
fuck for me.
That's why when I went touniversity, I was like, I don't
give a fuck about why I study.
I just wanna socialize that Idid community.
(11:43):
I was only invited to a singularparty in high school.
A singular one.
Oh.
And that's because one of thepopular girls was in chorus and
then she, I think she felt badfor me.
Oh, that's cute.
And she invited me.
She was cute.
She was nice.
Aw, look at you now.
I know.
I'm so popular now.
Um, What was I gonna say?
I had something else.
Say you've got, you've got amillion followers on TikTok, so
that's nice.
Yeah.
I also have a million friends.
(12:05):
Yeah, and I'm way more comconfident than I was in high
school.
Do you think it was aconfidence?
Yeah.
No.
This is an interview for you,cause you start talking about
our childhood's a lot more thanwe were supposed to.
Let's try, I generally do wannatalk about like adult
friendships.
'cause I think that's just a bitmore important.
'cause the fuck.
Do you speak to my school still?
No one?
No, actually not a singleperson.
I do.
I don't see pt.
(12:25):
Anyone.
No.
That's crazy.
So high school for you, you werelike a little bit of a nerd.
Very.
You still are.
Yeah.
You were sheltered Very.
You didn't listen to music?
Nope.
Christian Pop.
You listened to Christian Pop.
Christian pop and Christian rockgrowing up, our God is an
(12:45):
awesome God.
He writes from heaven above withwe them power and love.
Our God is an awesome God.
That triggered so many peoplefrom me seeing that mean in high
school.
I was listening.
I was listening to Beyonce andShakira.
Nope.
Oh I, I listened to like.
green Day and like all Americanrejects.
(13:06):
Yeah.
Okay.
I had a punk, like a nerd punkphase.
Like I liked punk rock music.
Yeah.
Everyone kinda did, but I,everyone was not fitting that.
But I had Pete Wind's hair.
I.
Yeah, I had people inside too.
Yeah.
It was so bad.
Yeah.
I went from like MTV's.
No, just don't kill the drama.
Let's start fight.
Like I used to watch thatreligiously on MTV.
Mm-hmm.
(13:27):
And like they hear these likebeautiful women jarring onscreen
and I'm like, I'm definitelyhomosexual.
Yes.
Two.
I had a weird like panic at thedisco phase.
Yeah.
Is that Brendan Uri?
Yeah.
Who?
What A loser.
Yeah.
Sorry, what was your question?
For me?
My question is, Matthew, thankyou for asking me.
You're welcome.
Question to ask you.
You're welcome.
The question is.
(13:47):
Do you feel like you missed outon like childhood or like school
things?
When you hear, especially Idunno when you hear about like
other people's stories or like,'cause I always wonder there are
always the quieter kids, theshyer kids, the shy kids who
would invited to like things orgot to experience the things
other people were experiencing.
People would come home, come toschool on a Monday and be like,
oh my God, that party onSaturday night was so fun.
(14:09):
What did you think in thatmoment?
At the time I was probably sad.
Oh.
At the time I was definitelysad, if I didn't get to go
places, but I had some friends,so I wasn't that sad.
Okay.
But then looking back on that,did you be friends?
What did you, with your friendsat school?
Uh, We hung out in the Walmartparking lot.
I'm sorry, what?
We would hang out in the Walmartparking lot.
I'm sorry, what?
(14:29):
So there's also something in ourlittle town, North Carolina
called Cruising, which I didevery so often, which was
literally you would get in yourcar with your friends.
Cruising is in gay cruising.
No, no, no, no, No.
You would get in the car andthere was like one road, it was
like the road through the middleof town.
Hickory, Hickory, NorthCarolina.
you would just drive back andforth really fast.
Oh, that's fun.
(14:50):
And then part of it was sittingin the Walmart parking lot.
There was probably drinksinvolved, but I didn't drink
until I was 18 so, so that waswhat I spent my time doing with
my friends.
Crazy.
And then watching Glee.
Okay that's enough of that.
That's enough.
You went to uni.
This story continues that way.
Pretty much.
I don't feel like I missed out.
Now in the moment probably, Iwas probably like, wow, I wish I
(15:10):
was popular.
But looking back, I was like,no, life isn't about popularity.
Life's about fr like it's aboutfriendship.
It doesn't come aboutfriendship.
Did you enjoy the times you hadwith your friends?
Yes.
Because you see these, you know,there are movies about like
loner kids.
Yes.
Tell me more about me.
Who have one or two friends, butthey're like great friendships.
Yeah.
No, and I think that's what'skey.
I did have great friendships atthe time.
(15:31):
They're not my friends nowbecause I didn't keep up with
them.
Yeah.
No, we like, and that's fine.
We grow, but they were myfriends at the time and yeah,
they helped me througheverything, so I don't feel like
I missed out on anything.
'cause what did I miss?
If I, If I was popular and I didgo outta the parties, what was I
getting?
Everyone was straight.
I was gay straight.
but also I would live in NorthCarolina.
Where was I going to party?
Oh, that's true.
Someone's house.
(15:51):
The parking lot.
AKA Y.
I was cruising down the street.
Not cruising, cruising, Thepark.
The Walmart parking lot is acrazy, I grew up in Hicksville.
Crazy place to be.
There was nowhere to go.
The closest place was Charlotte,which is 45 minutes away longer
because we didn't have a highwaythen.
So it was long.
It was probably like an hour anda half to go to Charlotte.
It like no one's going whenthey're 17 to Charlotte, in my
(16:12):
mind, like you're Amish.
That is wild.
Goes by.
Yeah.
So great.
Love that.
Yeah.
I feel like we just were in, inthe trenches then for far longer
than I anticipated.
The trenches are good place tothis, this podcast about the
trenches.
No, I know, I know.
We're digging trenches.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We are actually actively diggingtrenches.
Where do you want to move into?
(16:34):
I want to talk about though isadult friendships, big spooky
adult friendships, big spookyadult friendships, dun, because
first of all, unless you live inyour hometown and you grow up
and you're still friends with abunch of people that you went to
school with or college with, oryou worked with your first few
(16:54):
jobs or your.
Friends.
Friends or your like boyfriend'sfriends or your part Yeah.
Your partner's friend groups andjust became a whole clique.
Who are your friends?
Because I know my brother'sfriends are his friends from
uni, his friends from school,his friends from work.
Those are his friends.
(17:14):
Okay.
When I think about our friends.
Like my friends are my friendsfrom Berlin when I lived there.
My friends from Australia when Ilived there.
Like it's just meeting peoplewhen you travel around.
But when you move to a new city,you don't have any friends.
So two years ago we moved hereand we didn't know a single
person.
Mm-hmm.
Worth knowing.
Keep that in, that I don't,whoa, fuck shots fired.
(17:37):
So we didn't know anyone worthnoting.
Yeah.
So we basically didn't have anyfriends for months.
Yeah.
We had one friend when we movedhere.
One person that we knew from theinternet.
But then again, like this is howyou make friends.
Exactly.
We're getting into how did wemake these friends?
We did the same thing inToronto.
We did the same thing in Berlin.
Did you have friends in Berlin?
Were there, I have so manyfriends in Berlin.
When you moved there.
No, but it was really, I feellike it was easier.
That's what I was saying and Iwas like, early twenties.
(17:58):
Moved to Berlin and I was like,I'm just gonna meet people.
It was easy.
I met my first like friend, myfirst best friend she became
best friends with for like twoyears of living in Berlin within
the first weekend of me livingin Berlin.
And then I was just integratedinto her friend group
immediately.
Do you?
And that was my friend group fortwo years.
do you think it was easierbecause we've lived, so we've
moved to Berlin, we've moved toToronto, we moved to San
(18:19):
Francisco basically withoutknowing anyone.
Mm-hmm.
Three cities at different pointsin our lives.
Australia too.
so that's like early twentieswas Berlin.
Mid twenties.
Twenties was Toronto and thenlate twenties Totally.
To now thirties.
Yeah.
Is San Francisco.
So we moved to different cities.
I doing one state one.
Yeah.
We moved to these different,three different cities at three
different points in our life.
So do you think it was easier tomake friends in Berlin in your
(18:40):
Yeah.
Lower, lower twenties.
Early twenties.
Twenties than it was moving toSan Francisco in your thirties?
Yes, a hundred percent.
Why?
I am so glad you asked thatquestion.
Like I knew that you, I know itwas on your mind, so I was
partying more, like that waslike the main, my main goal in
my early twenties.
Like I'm going out of, partyingso much.
(19:01):
And in my early twenties.
And also I knew one person fromAustralia that I like knew at
the hostel.
I met up with again in Berlin,and then he introduced me to
someone that he knew when he wastraveling in Australia.
And that became my friend, butbecause we were both from the
uk.
It was easy.
And it was just easy to be like,oh, come to this party.
Come to that party.
I don't have any obligations.
(19:21):
I like, I'm single.
I am.
I think that also is a keycontributor.
Being single and being like, Ican do anything I want whenever
I want.
I'm gonna go out every singlenight.
I'm gonna go whenever I want,whenever I wanna go somewhere,
I'm just gonna do it.
I've got no obligations.
I've got no responsibilities.
Responsibilities is the word Iwas looking for.
I was gonna say, I dunno what Iwas gonna say.
yeah, I was like, oh, thisperson's having a house party or
(19:43):
a pregame for this thing orwhatever.
Do you wanna come to our houseand just smoke some weed?
Say that it's legal.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
We live in California.
That's true.
And then I'd be like, yeah,absolutely.
And then you just like bond.
Bond over.
Mm.
Weed.
Yeah, weed marijuana.
(20:05):
And I just think that's just, Ithink also in Berlin it was
easier because it's it's, thereare German people living there,
obviously, but it's a veryexpat, heavy city, expat,
whatever that word is.
so you seek each other out?
Yeah.
Like people from the uk it's alot of.
British and Australians livingin Berlin.
Yeah.
So you will seek other peopleout.
'cause everyone else is seekingeveryone out too.
Totally.
Because Germans are not, if I'mlike at a random party or even
like at the workplace, like I'mstill friends with like most of
(20:27):
the people I used to work with.
You also worked because I didwork and that's another key
contributor.
Yeah.
Moving to a new city and havinga job.
Where you actually go into thejob.
Place the job, place.
Fuck me.
Been outta the job for a whileinto the job.
Yeah, I know exactly.
But because we're self-employed,we moving, we moved to San
Francisco.
It was so difficult.
'cause when we moved to Toronto.
(20:47):
Actually, here's a veryinteresting point.
You moved to Berlin and you wereself-employed.
Yeah.
You moved to Toronto and youwere self-employed.
Yep.
You moved to San Francisco andwe're both self-employed.
Yep.
I moved to Berlin and I got ajob.
Yeah.
Most of the girls I'm friends,still friends with are still are
friends from the office.
Yeah.
I moved to Toronto and I workedat a hotel.
I guess like a lot of thosepeople.
(21:09):
Were my core friend group untilI made friends with other
people.
Mm-hmm.
Because I still speak to some ofthose people I used to work
with.
But then I guess they like, theybleed out into a wider friend
group.
And then here was the mostdifficult place I've ever found
making friends because I movedhere, self-employed.
Huh?
Yes.
So now I, oh, now you understandmy trauma.
Now I understand you a littlebit.
Oh my God.
Also I think it's easier for you'cause you're more of an
(21:30):
extrovert than I am.
Like I'm very introverted.
Yeah.
And it's very like, I likespending my time on my own.
So I would, I find myself, ifI'm, if I have a choice between
going out and staying in, leantowards staying in.
So when I was in Berlin and whenI was in Toronto.
Especially, I was self-employedand you were working, so I was
like, it was harder for me tofind groups of friends that I
wanna be friends with.
Yeah.
(21:50):
I would meld into yourfriendship groups a little bit,
especially in Berlin.
More so in Berlin than Toronto.
'cause I did find like somecommunity in Toronto through
Barry's.
Oh.
Through working out, which I,looking back on it, not the
best, not the Barry's Co, likethe Fit fan, but I did find some
sort of community and friendshipthere, which.
It's saying a little bit ofsomething for Barry's.
Yeah.
But also I feel like you werequite good at finding friends
(22:11):
through social media.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's been like your biggestthing.
Because when we moved to, werethey good friends?
No, when we moved to Bur, when Imoved to Berlin, I had like my
friends through just likesocializing I found a lot, a
couple of friends through socialmedia and Berlin too.
But then again, but the friendsthat you had in Berlin were both
through Instagram?
Yeah.
Yeah, because I was just likeworking by myself, and it's
like, where do you go?
They were all awful, by the way.
(22:31):
I know all of you're like Iknow, I know, I know.
To run friends from Berlin werelosers.
So was I.
And had the personality of a,like an eggshell.
So did I probably at that point.
No, you were interesting.
They were, you were interesting.
A speckled egg.
Yeah, like an ostrich egg.
An ostrich egg.
There's so much to it, but likemoving to San Francisco was.
(22:52):
Probably the hardest because A,we were together.
So when you're single, it'seasier to make friends.
When you're together withsomeone, it's harder to make
friends just because you have todo everything together and it's,
whatever.
You don't have to, but it's morecomfortable when you move to a
new city to do things together.
And not have your separatethings, which we hadn't had.
Until like probably last year.
But then if we were like alsosocializing, we'd be like, oh,
we're both coming.
'cause this, right?
(23:12):
Because why not?
This is now our socialinteraction of the month.
And then B, we were self, bothself-employed, so we didn't go
to a workplace.
We'd make videos together.
We don't really have coworkers.
We have a couple, one influencerfriend in the city who's great.
Yeah.
But other than that, like SanFrancisco is also not an
influencer city.
Like maybe in LA or New York.
We might go to more events.
No, that was the main reason wewanted to move to San Francisco
(23:32):
because Exactly.
It wasn't an influencer city.
Oh, we can talk about influencerfriends.
They're fucking annoying.
I don't want influencer friendstalk about Toronto.
I don't talk about Toronto.
Well, well Your first, like yourfirst friend group.
Like, when I first startedworking at that hotel in
Toronto.
Yeah.
I was making friends left right,and center.
'cause you know it's a hotel.
Yeah.
Everyone's young and hot.
Yeah.
And artistic.
And I'm like, I fit right in.
Amazing.
(23:52):
But then you, oh, I'm also, I'mat work for.
8, 9, 10 hours a day.
I'm like, what are you doing?
What are you doing?
I went to a coffee shop and satdown and tried well, I was a
freelance writer at the time, acopywriter.
I was a copywriter and aninfluencer, so I was doing like
copywriting and I don't know,fucking planning my Instagram
posts.
You used to go to a cafe?
(24:14):
Cafe.
I'm like.
Work.
I would pretend to work so Ifelt productive.
You would work nine to five justso you could feel like you had a
job, a purpose, a job job, yeah,like a purpose, which I'm like.
Okay.
Realistically, our career pathand like luckily our like social
media success has allowed us tobe able to create our own
schedules.
Yeah.
And unless I have sponsoredcontent or branded partnerships
(24:36):
to focus on, I'm gonna do mypodcast or I'm gonna do my like
Instagram stuff, I'm gonna doTikTok stuff together and that's
like fun.
And we get to make that at ourown.
Pace and Yeah, schedule.
Schedule.
You used to go into a cafe?
To what?
To socialize, make friends?
No.
Did you make friends?
At the fuck?
No.
Do you think I talked to anyone?
No.
I think I just wanted like asense of normalcy or a sense of
(24:58):
like community where I could tryto find it, which was just like
a cafe where I would part likework so I did make influencer
friends through our agency thatwe were represented by in
Toronto.
You knew some of the peoplethough before you moved.
I did know some of the peoplebefore we moved through
Instagram.
I don't, they're not listening.
Talk shit.
I'm not, they're not listening.
They're specifically shit aboutthem.
I will, I don't give a fuck.
I did.
I think most, some of lame assfucking people.
(25:21):
I think most people in, most ofthe influencers in Toronto are
not most, we have a, we, I, wehave one influencer friend in
Toronto who I adore.
Luna Lindsay, love you.
I'll call her out.
She's the best.
Because she's a real person.
Yeah.
On and offline.
Totally.
Like she is the same online asshe is offline.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Most influencers.
This is why I'm not friends witha lot of influencers are
(25:41):
wonderful.
Influencer friend in the city inSan Francisco is the same online
as she is offline.
Yeah.
A little more un unhingedoffline, and I love it.
You one could say that we'remore unhinged in real life than
we are in I know.
On social media.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
But which is a good thing.
Like you, you should be moreunhinged in real life.
A hundred percent because you'relike.
You've got like a stick up yourass which is the case for most
of these influencers.
When I first got immersed intoinfluencer culture in Toronto,
(26:03):
I'm working at a hotel, but I,in the evenings I'm going to
like random events with you andToronto is a very like
influencer.
It's a big influencer hub andthere's just events all the
time.
So that was a good way to go outand socialize and meet people.
No one would give me the time ofday Yeah.
Until I started like building myInstagram or like my Instagram
started.
Yeah.
Coming up and then we startedgetting big on TikTok.
All of a sudden, I'm gettingthese dms from people I've known
(26:25):
now for a year in Toronto whoall of a sudden want to get to
know me are giving me the timeof day.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, you're fake as fuck.
And also when I'm meeting thesepeople I can see them online and
I'm like, oh, you seem so funonline.
Or I'm meeting these people thatI may have seen or followed on
Instagram for a while and I'mlike, oh, you're awful in person
or boring and that and or sofucking boring.
Yeah.
You have the personality.
(26:46):
Oh my god.
Oh my fucking God.
Don't even degrade Eggs.
Shows like that.
Even they're worse.
Some eggs shows couldn't evenfind their personality out of a
fucking cereal box.
That is so crazy.
Like you couldn't even find thepersonality out of the prize of
a cereal box.
Yeah.
The worst.
That is crazy.
And this is why they're not myfriends, And then it made me
like really question like the,like in that industry as a
whole.
But I feel like maybe like theswitch in social media to being
(27:08):
less Instagram focused andcurated.
Yeah.
To then being like TikTok andyou have to have a bit of a
personality to succeed in this.
Yeah.
And then we saw a huge rise inpeople who actually are a bit
more interesting.
Yeah.
I remember we talked about thislike in the pandemic, we were
like, oh my God, these arepeople like who are actually
fun.
And we started going into likeTikTok events or people were
like doing per personality basedstuff rather than just here's a
(27:28):
photo of a coffee cup on thisfloor in this cafe.
'cause it has nice tiles.
Shut up.
No.
You know who exactly I'm talkingabout.
I know who you're talking aboutbecause the lay ass bitch ass
bitches.
Also, I think a Toronto is acity where the first question
people ask you is what do youdo?
Yeah.
What do you do?
San Francisco, I feel like isnot that city.
(27:49):
I don't think I even know whathalf my friends do.
I'm still confused about whatmost of our good friends do for
work.
Not confused.
I just never asked.
The thing is I don't wanna know,nor do I care.
I don't wanna know.
And to give your industry, tellme what's been on going on day
to day.
Give me the tea.
Gimme the office tea.
Yeah.
Tell me.
Yeah.
But we don't care.
I don't care.
No one cares.
No one cares about jobs.
No one really asks about likeour jobs and I don't really
(28:10):
particularly care about talkingabout it.
Yeah.
But Toronto very much was up.
It's in my opinion I don't knowif sometimes people's jobs are
like the most interesting thingabout them.
And for the case of many peoplein Toronto that we knew their,
like influencer careers weretheir most interesting things
about them.
I just don't know if that's themost interesting thing about,
it's one of them.
It's one interesting thing aboutAbout us.
About us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We've got so many interestingthings.
(28:31):
It's just my day job.
Yeah.
It's just my day job.
It's how I make money.
I'm just sat here talking into amicrophone and you're listening.
I do.
As my friend.
Thank you, friend.
Oh, they're our friends.
I was gonna get into it.
I was gonna get into it.
What?
Our online friends, they'rebeing our friends.
Yeah.
Them.
Them being our friends.
I think one of the most, ontopic, not on topic.
On point.
(28:52):
No, on the tip of your tongue.
I think one of the things that'slike currently been going on in
my brain recently, on the top ofyour head, on the top of my
tongue.
Tip of my toenail has beenfriends.
What?
That I've met recently?
Yes.
Okay.
So in the last two and a halfyears since we've lived in San
(29:12):
Francisco, which is crazy, twoand a half, almost two and a
half years wild we didn't knowanybody.
And San Francisco is the firstcity that I think, either of us
I've ever lived in where it's Sogay.
Like this gay male.
Gay male, yes.
It's very gay male.
Oriented.
That's like the demographic isjust like lots of gay men.
(29:33):
Yes, white.
And I've never had a group ofgay male friends before Toronto.
We had like, we knew a bunch ofgay people.
Berlin is such a queer city, butI never had a group of just like
gay friends.
Me, neither ever.
And I feel like it's just like athing.
People are just like, have them.
And that on social media all thetime.
They're just like, people justlike move in packs of men.
(29:55):
White ones.
White ones at that.
And I just found, I found itreally difficult to figure out
where I fit into thatdemographic or that or that like
life.
And so lifestyle.
Yeah.
Maybe the lifestyle because it,homosexual lifestyle because at
the time, I really enjoyed itlast year when I was like going
out so much.
It's it's a really social thingand I think all of a sudden I'm
(30:16):
like, ah, I'm partying.
I'm like going out again andlike I'm having this resurgence
of like nightlife culture.
Because that's what friendship,that's how I think I justified
making friends and I'm like, oh,I'm making so many great
friends.
It's 5:00 AM at some randomperson's house.
What the fuck am I doing withthese random people?
At 5:00 AM.
Those friendships did not last,or no, they did not withstand
(30:38):
shocker the test of time.
But I think it's interestingthat like we moved here and I
like, it made me like a littlebit insecure.
It made me a little bit like,ooh, I dunno where I belong.
I dunno where I fit into thisculture.
And I just feel like it, I thinkit's in my mind, I think it's a
very San Francisco based thing.
And I don't know if it would'vebeen different if we had moved
to New York, for example, whereit was a bit more diverse.
(30:58):
And a little bit more like.
I don't know.
I just love women so much andthis has been the first place
I've lived where like I have tworeally close girlfriends.
And then the rest are all men.
Crazy.
That's crazy to me.
I will say it's not like youcan't make really good friends
in San Francisco'cause two ofour.
Like best friends we met hereand that's how we met our two
good girlfriends.
(31:19):
Yeah.
And I'm like, you can, it's, itis just rarer.
I think because the city issmaller, a smaller city.
It is a small city.
compared to New York, like it'slike there's, its densely
populated size.
It's densely populated, butstill small.
Two.
Everyone's been priced out.
So because it's reallyexpensive.
So all of the, like the artistsand the queer people and like
the people who can't afford tolive here have been priced out.
(31:40):
So the cool people, the coolpeople are living in Oakland or
Berkeley or they moved somewhereelse.
Yeah.
Those two points I think meanthat it's harder to make friends
who aren't white working in techmen, literally.
It's just I feel like this cityis like very copy paste of so it
was, I found it difficult tomake friends'cause I'm like.
Some of you people are reallynot interesting at all.
Love some of them.
(32:00):
Some of them have becomefriends.
Some have become our closest.
It is rarer.
It's rarer.
I think in New York or la?
Not even.
Not la.
I'm not gonna say la.
New York or Chicago.
Oh, Chicago.
No, I don't know about Chicago.
I don't know.
Oh, Chicago is also very white.
Gay.
Yeah.
Chicago is very white.
Gay.
But also they're like financebros.
Yeah, that's true.
New York, I just miss havinglike a diverse, I mean, I I do
(32:20):
have a diverse friend groupbased off of like my current
friends now, but last year whenI was just like out in Yeah, the
droves of gay men, it wasn'tvery diverse.
I was like one of the darkestpeople in the room.
It's like you were like all thespaces you were going into and
putting yourself into Yeah.
Were those spaces filled withthose people?
Because I felt I was like, howam I supposed to make friends if
I'm not going out?
(32:41):
Yeah.
It is.
How am I supposed to makefriends?
Because that's what I used to dowhen I was in my early twenties.
But now my, I'm in my earlythirties.
But now it's a decade later.
I think it's more important nowto tone down, siphon away.
have a couple of friendshipgirls, not 50 friendship girls.
Yeah.
The older, I just think, yeah,the older you get, obviously
(33:01):
it's natural for you to losefriends and just like your core
group gets smaller and smaller,which I love, but that feels,
and I wish that people weren'tlike moving around all the time
because if we stayed in Toronto,we had such a core group of
friends.
You are listening.
I know you are and I fuckinglove you.
And our best friend's husband?
No, who's also our best friend.
(33:23):
I'm keeping that one in there.
I quick plug to our friend groupin Toronto.
I think I was so sad aboutleaving them because we just we
formed such a close bond withthese people and we had to leave
the country, but we also didwanna leave Toronto anyway.
Like it was just like, yeah, theplace was just like, not for us.
Yeah.
We left behind such a fuckingbeautiful group of people and I
was like scared that we weregonna lose them.
(33:45):
But I think if you like try hardenough, you can make any
friendship work.
We speak to these people likealmost every day.
All the time.
Yeah.
All the time.
Any random reference comes up,anything that pops up, like
we're speaking all the time.
Yeah.
And then we met how seen eachother in now almost a year and a
half.
Yeah.
Since the last wedding.
I think that's when you can tellthat the friendship is going to
stand the test.
Totally.
But then our, like two closestfriends that we met here, our
(34:07):
first core group in SanFrancisco, two of them left and
moved to New York within sixmonths.
Yeah.
Which was like a big blow.
Fuck you, Fuck you cunts.
But then we still speak to themevery single day.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
you know when those friendshipsare gonna be the ones that
you're gonna keep on.
Yeah.
And you know which ones you'regonna let go of.
But I think it's when you, likeday to day are like you're
(34:29):
living in the city and you,maybe your closest friends
aren't with you.
'cause then my best friend wholives in Berlin, still my like
closest friends who lives inthe, who live in the uk.
I wish they could just all livetogether on an island that would
be fun on a little island,friendship island, but then they
don't know each other.
Friendship Island.
Friendship Island.
That's a good title.
Hi guys.
Welcome to Friendship Island.
Friendship Island.
(34:49):
Welcome to Friendship Island.
That's a good title.
It is.
Welcome to My Island.
Oh yeah.
Palm Trees, Carolyn Che.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, I was thinking of theCharlie Xcx version, but the
Charlie XX remix, Charlie Xcxversion of Welcome to My Island.
Yes.
I'll show it to you later.
The Caroline Hick song?
Yeah.
They did a collab on it.
Oh, we did not know.
(35:10):
You'll hate it.
What was I gonna say?
Oh, what was I gonna say?
I was gonna say, oh, friendship.
Oh, friendship.
Friendship.
Making friends.
Because you like, you thinkgoing to parties, you're gonna
make the best friends of yourlife.
And some of them Sure are.
Pretty good friends I think makegoing to things based on your
like interests, hobbies.
Hobbies.
Well, Some of these girls don'thave any hobbies who.
The fucking people that we know.
Everyone that we met last yearat the park, in the party scene,
(35:31):
no hobbies.
Not a single hobby in sight.
Yeah.
I think apart from maybepickleball.
Yeah.
Oh, pickleball.
But most of them aren't evenplaying pickleball.
I know they're going to the gym.
They're doing steroids and thenthey're going to the club and
then they're doing Ketamine.
The Castro.
Yeah.
Literally, I think going, but Ithink generally as a 30-year-old
(35:52):
who's, I'm a 30-year-old now.
Crazy.
You've been 30.
I know.
It's crazy.
I'm almost 31.
31.
I know that's crazy for you.
Almost 33.
Yeah, don't age me like that.
I think at this point in ourlives, it's more if we want to
make friends, the better friendsare going to be made going to
things, doing things that youenjoy or like trying new things.
(36:12):
Clay.
Clay, you keep saying clay.
Clay is the.
it's doing a ceramics class.
It's a product.
It's like a thing.
Clay is the thing.
You doing a ceramics class, youkeep saying I wanna go do clay.
Yeah, I like it.
What do you mean I wanna go dobrick?
Like What do you mean?
It's the do talk about theactivity, not the product you're
gonna use whilst you do thething.
I just like how it sounds.
(36:33):
I'm on du plays like so strange.
What do play, I know I got you aclass.
For fucking Christmas.
Where?
When are you gonna use it?
When are you gonna take me?
When are you gonna go?
You're supposed to take me, Idon't know where it is.
You bought the class.
So annoying.
I think doing things like thatlike ceramics and, I don't know,
just like hobbies that you mightbe interested at a book club or
like farmer's market.
I don't fucking know.
(36:53):
An instrument.
Farmer's markets.
Yeah, you can.
I make friends, the farmer'smarket.
I'm not making friends with thefarmer's market.
You could, you've been to thefarmer's market if you tried to
I'm not making friends with thefarmer's market.
You could'cause first of all,it's either on a Saturday or a
Sunday and I'm gonna behungover, I'm irritable when I'm
hung over.
I'm irritable at the best oftimes.
Irritable all the time.
I'm irritable at the best,exactly the best of times, so
(37:16):
I'm not gonna go to a farmer'smarket to seek out friendship
with what the fucking carrotmanufacturer.
That'd be pretty fun for youmaybe.
The carrot man.
Sure.
The carrot manufacturer.
Man.
I don't know the guy who makescarrots fucking out.
You mean the farmer?
Yeah, the farmer.
The farmer's market.
(37:36):
Oh yeah.
Duh.
Not the manufacturer of thefucking farmer's market.
You're insane.
I was trying to think of thename for the people who like are
the farmer's?
Market farmers?
Turns out the farmers market.
Yeah.
The market of farmers.
Turns out it's just the marketfor farmers.
You're insane.
say.
How do you feel about yourfriends, your, like social as
your social life right now?
Maybe not so much your sociallife, but like how you feel
(37:57):
about the fact that you haveformed friends over the last
like couple years specificallybecause it relates to how you
feel like right now in yourfriend groups.
I feel better about my friendsnow than I did last year.
I'm, as I said, an introvert, soit's harder for me to make
friends or it takes me a littlebit longer to want to be friends
(38:17):
with someone.
Let's say that much.
Okay.
I need, it takes me a while tobreak through for someone to
break through to me.
'cause I'm like, I need to knowif you're actually a good person
or not, or if you're just like.
Someone who's fickle or someonewho doesn't like, who I don't
wanna be friends with.
So last year I was trying tomake friends with everyone.
I was like, let me be friendswith every single person that I
meet.
That's not me.
and I think you see me doing it.
(38:38):
Sure.
Yeah.
And you're like, oh, I feel likeI should also do that.
Or like if I'm making plans.
Totally.
You're like, I kind of wannastay in, but I feel like I have
to go.
'cause like no a, I love stayingin.
So I love saying, and I lovebeing by myself.
Live for that.
A cozy night in so good.
I don't wanna go out all thetime.
I'm tired.
You have your book friends andyour internet friends.
I do have my internet.
Friends.
Friends.
I also have my real friends.
(39:00):
I like having, you're like, youmake me seem like a fucking
loser.
I have friends, a lot of themactually.
Good.
I know.
I'm siphoning away.
Siphoning, is there a betterword than that?
I'm like cutting away the fat.
Also worse, I don't know.
Taking away the people that justaren't actual friends that will
(39:20):
be friends for life.
Cut off the fat.
That was brutal.
That was brutal.
I made a lot of acquaintanceslast year.
Yeah.
And they will.
Oh, I have so manyacquaintances.
Stay acquaintances.
I have so many acquaintances,but I want my core group of
girls who I can rely on.
Yeah, the people I can rely on.
The people I could text if I washaving a bad day or if I need
advice on something.
That took a while.
That takes a while.
Yeah.
It does take a while.
(39:40):
And it took two and a halfyears.
Yeah.
Where I feel comfortable now.
I think that's a good bench.
Benchmark.
Bench park.
Yeah.
Bench park.
Benchmark.
Benchmark.
Sometimes I'm like, do we knowEnglish?
No, I don't at all.
Also, we film this when we'relike, it's the afternoon.
I've worked out.
I've heard we've in meetingstoday.
Oh my God, my brain's scattered.
I.
Oh my God.
What a hard you.
What a hard life.
You worked out and you had onemeeting.
(40:03):
Yeah.
And then I had to make myselfAnd you're oof.
What a big day.
Yeah.
My head hurts.
I need a nap.
I do need a nap.
I'm like watching the dog takethe deepest nap ever.
And I'm like, I wish I could dothat.
Someone's gotta pay for herfood.
That's a good benchmark for Ithink finding.
Your core friend group, theamount of time it takes.
Yeah.
I think two years or to feellike settled in a new city.
(40:25):
No.
Two years is generally the timewhere you would decide whether
you want to leave a city or stayin a, we only stayed in Toronto
for four years because we gotstuck there for two years.
For Covid?
Yeah, we were gonna move up tothe first year.
No, it was after the first year.
We both.
Told each other, we didn't wannalive there anymore.
Yes.
So we would've been gone fromToronto by the two year mark.
Probably.
We left Berlin before the twoyear mark.
(40:45):
Pretty much.
Mine was You were at the twoyear mark?
Mine was over two years.
Mine was before the two yearmark.
San Francisco.
I don't feel a an urgency toleave yet.
No, I think we're chilling.
I like to chill.
Yeah.
I will.
Like eventually, I think theslow paced nature of this city.
And maybe my high paced natureof wanting to socialize.
Yeah.
They don't really click.
And so I think I, maybe twoyears ago if I hadn't moved to
(41:08):
like New York for example Iwould've probably probably
enjoyed that a little bit more.
Yeah.
In terms of like socializing andlike making friends aspect.
But I'm like, actually, let mesit my ass down a little bit.
Let's like chill.
Chill and not, and.
There is no reason to go dosomething every single night
with a different person.
Because the select few peoplethat I do have in my life are
(41:28):
diamonds in the rough.
That's nice.
Also, you don't have enough,like we are only one person that
has, I'm two people, wait.
Hmm.
We are two people and I'm alsotwo people.
You are insane.
We only have enough energy tospread amongst social.
We are sims characters and oursocial meter is only goes up to
(41:52):
a certain level.
Mine's a bit higher than yoursim.
Yeah.
Yours is a bit higher fully, butat the still, you only have a
certain amount of energy to givepeople.
Yeah.
So if you're giving energy to 50people a week Yes.
You're like, I wanna see allthese people.
Crazy.
No, it's so crazy that.
What did I just hear on TikTok?
We were only supposed to knowlike our puny little minds from
hunter gatherer days.
Oh.
This was the series that Iwanted to do back in the day.
(42:13):
What This segment Matt wants todo a segment.
Segment.
I'm introducing a new segment.
Okay it's a good thing.
This is close to the end of theepisode because Matt's
introducing a new segment, whichwe discussed and completely cut
off what I was gonna say, butI'm gonna come back to it in a
second.
Please talk about your segment.
It's called, I read an article.
Quote, unquote.
And it means what did we learnon TikTok that we pretend to say
that we read an article about,do you have one?
(42:37):
You better.
You better come up with one.
I did.
You made a whole fucking danceabout it.
Didn't you?
Made a whole song dance aboutit, but I just had the idea of
the segment and I wanna juststart it.
You, you say yours and I'llthink about mine if I learned
anything to this week, becausewe're at the dinner table.
We talk about the news thatwe've been reading.
Yeah.
So what did you read an articleabout?
I read an article.
That basically we as humanbeings evolved to only know 150
(43:01):
people.
'cause again, back in the huntergatherer days, back in the olden
days hunter gatherer days whenwe were like living in the
fucking cave.
Mm-hmm.
We only knew 150 odd people.
We didn't have social media, wedidn't have planes.
We couldn't go around and likefuck about and meet a fuck ton
people.
Yeah.
We lived in our communities andwe stayed in our little.
Click.
Yeah.
And that was like a hundred, 150people.
(43:24):
Our brains are not hardwired toknow thousands of people.
Why am I at the club with athousand people?
Online and offline?
Online and offline?
Online and offline.
I'm not meant to be seeing abouta thousand people scrolling
through TikTok.
I scroll on TikTok and I'm like,I've seen at least today, at
least maybe 200 people.
Yeah.
(43:44):
And learned about their lives,and learned about their lives.
Learned about a story, I don'tknow, just like something That's
crazy.
Yeah.
I think that's wild.
I'm going to the gym.
I'm seeing like a hundred peoplethere.
Yeah.
I'm scrolling through my phone.
There's another a hundredpeople.
Yeah.
I'm walking down the street.
There's another a hundredpeople.
That's too much.
That's a lot of people.
It's too much.
Our brains can't handle it.
(44:04):
So basically what I'm trying toget at is.
Let's go back into the caves,please.
Simpler times, paint on somewalls.
You'll be listening to the nextweek's episode of Let's Dig In
Through Hieroglyphics on a StoneTablet.
Exactly.
So do you learn anything thisweek?
I, so this week, I can'tremember if I had learned it
(44:25):
this week.
It doesn't have to be this week.
You can just it's a thing that Ilearned that's probably been the
most, the thing that I'veimplemented into my life the
most, because I do it every day.
I used to, and everyone thinksthat you brush your teeth, you
floss, and then you mouthwash.
You used to mouthwash first.
No, you're supposed to false.
You floss first.
(44:46):
Okay.
Then you mouthwash if you'regonna mouthwash.
'cause mouthwash industry is alittle bit of a scam.
You don't really need tomouthwash, but I do because it's
fun.
So you floss, you get all thegun gunk out.
Then you mouthwash, you swirl itout and spit it out.
You get most of the gunk out.
Then you toothbrush, toothpaste.
You brush your teeth fucking outbecause see, you do say this.
You talk about an activity withthe thing that you use.
(45:08):
Yes.
To do the activity.
Shut up.
Then you toothbrush, then youtoothpaste, and you do clay.
So then you brush your fuckingteeth.
Then you brush your fuckingteeth because the toothpaste is
moisturizer.
Ah.
So the toothpaste is themoisturizer of your teeth.
Oh, wow.
So you're not supposed, you'resupposed to keep that on your
teeth overnight and throughoutthe day.
(45:28):
Oh.
'cause I don't like the feelingand taste of that though.
You're supposed to leave it.
I know.
You're supposed to leave itbecause it's like continuing to
make your teeth good.
Yeah.
'cause I will have rinse thatshit off.
And that's changed my, thatarticle has changed my life.
Wow.
TikTok, thank you for TikTok.
I love that segment.
We're keeping that segment.
What if TikTok gets banned onwhat?
On Saturday?
It won't.
Okay, great.
Don't put that in the universe.
You're right.
Delete.
(45:49):
Thank you so much.
Friends.
Our online community that wehave built with the.
Hard work and dedication to justconstantly talk shit online.
Mm.
And you decided to stick aroundand listen to it, so that means
you're the best of friendsactually.
So true.
Yeah.
You stuck with us for 14episodes so far.
Also, there are people that havebeen like following us for, oh,
(46:10):
five years plus years.
7, 8, 7.
I've been doing this for awhile.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You probably have followers fromlike Berlin 2016.
2016.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
That's 4, 5, 9.
That's nine.
That's even nine.
If you've been here since then.
Wow.
Go away.
(46:31):
No, don't go away.
I was a loyal followers.
They were looking to yourlongest.
Longest.
I'm kidding.
Your long, your longest termfriends.
Yeah.
I love the internet.
No, it was, I feel like thatwould've been like your first
community building the internet.
The internet.
Yeah.
Were you ever like making randomfriends on the internet?
Not really.
I did Omegle sometimes.
(46:52):
Oh, that's fucking weird.
You didn't do Omegle, did you?
No.
Fuck.
No.
It's so fun.
No, we should do it sometimes.
Absolutely not.
No, I feel like maybe it was ayounger generation thing, like
my little brother's age, likemaking actual friends online.
Because, yeah, I didn't do that.
You wouldn't watch people playlike video games and stuff?
My little brother made friends.
Like through games and gamingonline?
No.
I was a real, I was, I didn't Iwas like, like on the edge of
(47:13):
that.
I was a real watch.
I was a real person.
I was a real nerd.
I wasn't real life nerd.
I wasn't an online nerd.
I was a real life nerd.
Awful lot nerd.
Okay, if you enjoyed thispodcast, please give us a review
on Apple Podcasts.
And subscribe wherever you wantand follow us.
What about Spotify podcast?
You can also leave a review onSpotify if you want to.
Apple's better, but do on both.
(47:33):
Wherever you listen.
Also, follow us everywhere.
Snapchat, Instagram, TikTok.
If it's still here afterSaturday, it will be YouTube,
Instagram.
Did I say Instagram?
Yeah.
Follow us everywhere and we'llsee you next time.
On.
Let's dig in.
Bye friends.
Bye friends.
Love you.
(47:53):
Oh um, Amigos.
Oh pal.
Oh no.
My friend was a friend inFrench.
Perfect.
Great.
What's the kind of ship that cannever sink?
(00:03):
What's the kind of ship that cannever sink?
You're looking at me like I justtold you something so asked you
something so crazy.
I've never um, what's a ship?
Is it a joke?
What's the kind of ship that cannever sink a friendship?
Ship A friendship.
Oh, are you dumb?
Maybe a little bit.
Are you dumb?
A friendship.
A friendship.
Did you look that up?
(00:23):
No, I think it's, did you lookup dad puns, sponge Bob or
something?
I've never heard that.
Oh my God.
Hello.
You've never heard that?
I can hear that in his voice.
A friendship.
A friendship.
Okay.
Hi everyone.
Yeah.
Welcome back to another episodeof Let's Dig In where we're
digging into.
Obviously shit.
Oh yeah.
The friendship episode.
(00:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sure.
It was a friendship episode.
Friendship.
There was a rainbow.
The big rainbow.
The big rainbow.
That said friendship right ThereWas FIR.
No, that's campfire song.
Oh, C-A-M-P-F-I-R-S-O-N-G Song.
Fuck.
Enough.
I enough.
Enough.
I take full responsibility forsetting off this episode in a
SpongeBob manner.
SpongeBob manner.
You did this to yourself.
Okay.
(01:04):
We're gonna talk about friendstoday.
Friendship.
Friendship.
Girls, we are your friendshipgirls.
We are how we made friends.
Who are our friends?
Who are our friends?
Not who are our friends.
Imagine if you're our friendlistening.
Turn away right now.
This isn't for you.
This is for strangers.
This is about you.
We're talking shit.
So I mean, I might talk a littleshit.
Fuck off.
I think it's so important.
(01:25):
So one of the things I wanted toreally talk about, I think it's
so important like, friends areso important.
No.
One of the things I want, whenwe were like setting up this
podcast, we were like thinkingof like topic ideas and just
like how to, how we, what we'dwanna talk about.
One of the key themes or likemessages in my life as of late
has been building communityfriendships.
How do you make friends in a newcity?
(01:47):
And we move around a lot.
Mm-hmm.
We have, we've moved around alot.
So how are we finding peoplethat are like-minded?
And how are we engaging incommunity building because it's
a lonely time in the world.
Oh my God.
A, the world is crazy, as in theworld is having a lonely time.
Well, A is A, the world iscrazy.
B, it's hard to make friends.
(02:08):
C, everyone's on their fuckingphones.
No one's going outside anymore.
I sound like a boomer.
D people aren't going out.
You sound like a no.
T like Gen Z isn't going out.
They sa They're staying insidefucking, they're staying inside
and cleaning.
I saw a TikTok.
A girl was like, why isn'teveryone, no one going out
anymore?
Everyone's just like stayinginside and cleaning their
apartments on the weekends, likehow we meet people.
Fun.
I know.
That's I love that.
(02:28):
'cause I'm 30.
But like this is them talkingabout like 23 year olds.
No, I was out every day.
I know you were out.
friendship, who is your firstfriend?
Who is your first friend?
The first friend I can ever,like I can remember in my life
is someone from my, I'm gonnasay nursery.
Like preschool.
That's nice.
You remember that far?
I remember only because ofphotos I've scenes.
(02:49):
So it like jogs memory.
Oh yes.
When I was like, I don't know,maybe three or four, five.
Wow.
I dunno how old you are then.
But he used to wear a Casper.
Tisha, he has, there's fivephotos of him in my, like the
Ghost album, the Ghost Casper,the Friendly Ghost, yeah.
I just call him Casper.
Oh, that's nice.
Maybe he was a dead child.
Maybe he was just the ghost of adead child.
That would make sense for you inyour journey?
That really would make sense forme.
(03:10):
Yeah.
For you to be my life friendswith a ghost in the beginning
outta my life trajectory.
Yes.
My first friend was a ghost.
Yeah.
This would make sense.
And now here I am.
Okay.
Anything else about Casper thatyou remember?
Are you real?
Probably not honestly at thispoint.
I know.
I think he was just my firstlittle white friend and then Oh,
of course he was white Casperthe ghost.
Yeah.
And I dunno if I had many otherfriends that were little white
(03:31):
boys growing up.
Okay.
I dunno.
That's fine.
Did I'm just trying to thinknow.
'cause all my friends were girlsthen.
Oh yeah.
All of my friends were girls inschool.
See, I didn't really have thatmany girlfriend.
Girl, girlfriend'cause you hadgirlfriends'cause you was too
busy getting girlfriends.
I had girlfriends, but I didn'thave girlfriend.
I did have girlfriends startingin like middle school.
(03:51):
I think I fear, I think in theelementary school you say I
fear.
I fear.
I think in the elementary schooltimes I had boys as friends,
boys who were never friends,boys were never friends.
No, they were boys were never myfriends.
They were kind of friends.
No, even like my cousins, like Ifeel like, I'd say that my
cousins were my first likefriends growing up.
If I'd had to pinpoint a timewhere I like was friends with
(04:13):
peers, my cousins.
But they were girlfriends, theywere my girl cousins.
I wish I had cousin friends.
I didn't have cousin friends.
Which is crazy because you livein a family with I have a
billion people in my family.
Yeah, exactly.
So like, but like none of themlike a couple of them were in my
age.
Are any of them gay?
Do you know if any of yourcousins are gay?
Is there anyone else in yourfamily that's gay?
I don't know.
Recently, probably.
(04:34):
There have been some that cameout, but the ones that I look,
the only time I saw my cousinswas during Thanksgiving when
like 70 of my family cametogether during Thanks
Thanksgiving.
And there would be like twogirls that I would hang out
with.
We weren't like friends.
Like we never hung out outsideThanksgiving.
It was like a once a year thingwhere I saw'em and they were
cool.
Okay.
we sat down, had Thanksgivingdinner.
I would sit down with them.
We would play like pool.
We would go out in the, to thebar and No, this tells me a lot
(04:56):
about you.
No, this tells me a lot aboutyou.
I, because I feel like when Italk, when I think about like
friendship Yeah.
And like the meaningful ones inmy life, they started in like
high school.
I had like meaningfulfriendships in high school.
That got me through high school,got me through coming out, got
me through everything you'veheard about in the last like few
episodes.
Yeah.
Got me through everything andI'm like, I boil my success in
(05:20):
adolescence to the girlfriendsaround me.
Friendship, community building,dad, girlfriends.
In high school they were all inchorus, like it was all my choir
and theater friends.
The eye roll that you can't hearthrough the podcast just
occurred on Omar's face.
They got me through all of thetraumas of high school, all the
singing.
Oh no, that wasn't the traumaticpart car.
All the Greek club drama.
(05:40):
No, the gay shit.
The gay shit, yeah.
They helped me out.
Yeah.
It was good.
high school is hard enough as itis, so you have to have.
A close group of girls andthere's like, you know, you have
to choose.
Did you have, like, were theylike jocks and like music nerds
and not really.
I feel Not really.
Some of the most popular peoplein my school were like.
(06:02):
Clowns.
Like the class clowns.
Class clowns are differentthough.
Yeah, they can be popular.
Yeah, I know, but they're like Rthe edge.
No, they wasn't really theyweren't like jocks or That just
doesn't really exist in likeBritish high school culture
especially prefer, especiallylike British.
Like public school culture.
Yeah.
It's just who is like the chast?
Who is like the, like who is theone that's gonna be like the
(06:23):
worst?
You've seen skins.
You've never seen skins.
I've never seen skins.
So who's gonna be like the mostlike belligerent, who's having
the most parties, but likeanyone can come.
Oh, that's nice.
Where were you?
You were popular, weren't you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you bully anyone?
No, I wouldn't bully anyoneunless they tried to bully me.
Ah.
And then it would be like that,that one scene in Pose.
Were you like the Oh what?
(06:44):
What TV series?
Sex education.
Okay.
Where there's the one gay guywho's friends with the two
popular girls.
Yeah.
Was that you?
Yes.
No, not really.
Okay.
No.
'cause I feel like that's what Iimagine you as no.
Because like I wasn't friendswith there was like a.
If you were to say like thepopular like girls, they weren't
really.
There wasn't really like onegroup of them.
Because they were a little bitlame as well.
Like thinking back about,thinking back on it.
(07:05):
Well Back then.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
No one could dress and everyonewas ugly.
But then it would be the girlsthat would come to school with
like their, like hair backnodded and like full face of
makeup back nodded back.
They're like back comb theirhair.
Oh, ew.
That was like a full trend.
I remember that.
Yeah.
The back combed hair and then somuch makeup.
Oh.
But like they weren't reallylike cool.
(07:26):
They just.
They were chubby.
They were just chubby.
Okay.
This is the thing, thepopularity was like, who could
win in the fight?
Oh, that's fun.
And maybe that was my schoolferal, actually.
That was my school who could winin the fight.
And if you could win in thefight, you probably the most
popular.
Is that just your school or isthat a UK thing?
Probably public school.
I'm rough.
It was the public school systemthere'd be like a text blast or
(07:46):
like someone, there'd be a rumorbe like, oh, there was a girl
called Carly and she would getin so many fights.
She was pretty popular.
Oh my God.
'cause no one would wanna sayanything to her because.
Yeah, she'd beat you up.
Ooh.
And I wouldn't wanna get on bad.
It feels very primal.
Yeah.
I wouldn't wanna get on a badside, so I'm like, mean.
Carly were tight.
What was the text blast?
If there was gonna be a fight,she'd beat the shit out.
(08:07):
People after school you sent atheir text blast about fights.
Yes.
Get with the program.
We didn't have that.
Yeah, well you were a loser.
I probably didn't get the textblast.
I was probably left out of this.
No, people used to get intofights all the time and it
would, and that would determinepopularity and you would just
stay on the side of the peoplewho would win the fights.
(08:27):
Friendship.
Did you grow up in ancient Rome,French?
Yes.
Sparta.
I only got the chain messages,if you don't send this to 10
people Oh yeah.
Your aunt will die.
Oh yeah.
Oh, I get them on MySpace blood.
Oh.
Space does kill me.
Love MySpace is friendship.
We could talk about friendship.
Yeah, we could talk aboutMySpace.
And you like could prioritizeyour friend list on MySpace and
(08:49):
then you'd be like, actually no,this person's my new best
friends.
I'm gonna put them on numberone.
Yeah, because you could likeprioritize your friends on
MySpace.
How bitchy was that?
That's crazy word.
How fucking Cty was that featureon MySpace where you could be
like.
This person's my best friend,but then this person's my second
and third, and everyone couldsee it fourth and fifth and
sixth, best friend.
And if you decided one week,you're like, actually, I'm
(09:10):
really vibing with this personmore.
And you would move them around,move number six out.
You'd pull so many fights.
You'd have so many fights.
You'd go to school on Mondaymorning, you're like, why'd you
move me?
On MySpace.
I see that I'm number two now onyour friends list.
I'm not gonna lie, I don't eventhink I did that.
I don't think I had enoughfriends to like fill those, fill
those six.
Oh, that's sad.
I can't remember my space.
Like I know I had MySpace so,but I can't remember
(09:31):
conversations like this and I'mlike, oh, I just wanna give you
a hug.
But I know me and high schoolwould not be friends with you in
high school.
Oh no.
You wouldn't be at all Fuck up.
I remember my space, but I don'tremember putting like
friendship.
I remember aim more so like Iwould aim A-I-M-A-I-M messenger.
WhatA-I-M-A-A-O-L-A-O-L-A-O-L-A-O-L
(09:53):
Messenger.
Okay.
Did you not have that?
It was MSN.
Oh, you had MSN?
No, we had a OL.
We are cool.
Okay.
You're were the uk It wasdifferent.
Yeah.
I don't know if you had a OL.
We had a OL.
I had like a L as my Internet.
So you have a L messenger.
No, I use MSN.
Oh, I use a OM messenger.
I don't know what a is.
You would MSN When we were inhigh school and then all of a
sudden I was in college and itwas BM Oh, you was a BMI didn't
(10:16):
BMBM in the shout people BM thatshit bb m in the shout of
people.
I wish I had a BMI was so likecrunchy at the time.
It was so me and my black peoplebold.
I'm like, okay, listen.
So cool.
When you were about to have anargument with someone, I broke
up with a boyfriend once in atuni.
Over BM Messenger.
And I was like, I was visitingmy friend in Sheffield and he
(10:37):
was just being annoying as fuck.
He told me he dropped out ofuni.
And I was like, you're a loser.
You're a loser and I'm gonnadump you.
And I was like, hold my drink.
And I'm like, click cl clackaway.
I'm on BM on my Blackberry bowl.
They were like raised, they werelike raised kind of things,
weren't they?
Yeah.
Raised letters, friendship.
It was very like nice breakingup with someone over BBM.
(10:59):
I had a razor.
Oh, that's cool.
No, I didn't.
Oh, that's a lie.
I wish I had a razor.
Are you okay?
No, because I only got the onesthat's, you had such a sheltered
upbringing.
I did.
I know that you have had a verysheltered upbringing, and
whenever I talk about storieslike you've seen sex education
on Netflix, you've seen skins.
My high school experience, likemy college experience was very
(11:20):
similar to like this.
We would go to parties, we wouldget wasted really young.
Friendship there weren't reallythat many like cult groups of
friends like that stuck tothemselves.
People like bled into eachother's groups of friends all
the time and it was like a veryfun, like school was social as
fuck for me.
That's why when I went touniversity, I was like, I don't
give a fuck about why I study.
I just wanna socialize that Idid community.
(11:43):
I was only invited to a singularparty in high school.
A singular one.
Oh.
And that's because one of thepopular girls was in chorus and
then she, I think she felt badfor me.
Oh, that's cute.
And she invited me.
She was cute.
She was nice.
Aw, look at you now.
I know.
I'm so popular now.
Um, What was I gonna say?
I had something else.
Say you've got, you've got amillion followers on TikTok, so
that's nice.
Yeah.
I also have a million friends.
(12:05):
Yeah, and I'm way more comconfident than I was in high
school.
Do you think it was aconfidence?
Yeah.
No.
This is an interview for you,cause you start talking about
our childhood's a lot more thanwe were supposed to.
Let's try, I generally do wannatalk about like adult
friendships.
'cause I think that's just a bitmore important.
'cause the fuck.
Do you speak to my school still?
No one?
No, actually not a singleperson.
I do.
I don't see pt.
(12:25):
Anyone.
No.
That's crazy.
So high school for you, you werelike a little bit of a nerd.
Very.
You still are.
Yeah.
You were sheltered Very.
You didn't listen to music?
Nope.
Christian Pop.
You listened to Christian Pop.
Christian pop and Christian rockgrowing up, our God is an
(12:45):
awesome God.
He writes from heaven above withwe them power and love.
Our God is an awesome God.
That triggered so many peoplefrom me seeing that mean in high
school.
I was listening.
I was listening to Beyonce andShakira.
Nope.
Oh I, I listened to like.
green Day and like all Americanrejects.
(13:06):
Yeah.
Okay.
I had a punk, like a nerd punkphase.
Like I liked punk rock music.
Yeah.
Everyone kinda did, but I,everyone was not fitting that.
But I had Pete Wind's hair.
I.
Yeah, I had people inside too.
Yeah.
It was so bad.
Yeah.
I went from like MTV's.
No, just don't kill the drama.
Let's start fight.
Like I used to watch thatreligiously on MTV.
Mm-hmm.
(13:27):
And like they hear these likebeautiful women jarring onscreen
and I'm like, I'm definitelyhomosexual.
Yes.
Two.
I had a weird like panic at thedisco phase.
Yeah.
Is that Brendan Uri?
Yeah.
Who?
What A loser.
Yeah.
Sorry, what was your question?
For me?
My question is, Matthew, thankyou for asking me.
You're welcome.
Question to ask you.
You're welcome.
The question is.
(13:47):
Do you feel like you missed outon like childhood or like school
things?
When you hear, especially Idunno when you hear about like
other people's stories or like,'cause I always wonder there are
always the quieter kids, theshyer kids, the shy kids who
would invited to like things orgot to experience the things
other people were experiencing.
People would come home, come toschool on a Monday and be like,
oh my God, that party onSaturday night was so fun.
(14:09):
What did you think in thatmoment?
At the time I was probably sad.
Oh.
At the time I was definitelysad, if I didn't get to go
places, but I had some friends,so I wasn't that sad.
Okay.
But then looking back on that,did you be friends?
What did you, with your friendsat school?
Uh, We hung out in the Walmartparking lot.
I'm sorry, what?
We would hang out in the Walmartparking lot.
I'm sorry, what?
(14:29):
So there's also something in ourlittle town, North Carolina
called Cruising, which I didevery so often, which was
literally you would get in yourcar with your friends.
Cruising is in gay cruising.
No, no, no, no, No.
You would get in the car andthere was like one road, it was
like the road through the middleof town.
Hickory, Hickory, NorthCarolina.
you would just drive back andforth really fast.
Oh, that's fun.
(14:50):
And then part of it was sittingin the Walmart parking lot.
There was probably drinksinvolved, but I didn't drink
until I was 18 so, so that waswhat I spent my time doing with
my friends.
Crazy.
And then watching Glee.
Okay that's enough of that.
That's enough.
You went to uni.
This story continues that way.
Pretty much.
I don't feel like I missed out.
Now in the moment probably, Iwas probably like, wow, I wish I
(15:10):
was popular.
But looking back, I was like,no, life isn't about popularity.
Life's about fr like it's aboutfriendship.
It doesn't come aboutfriendship.
Did you enjoy the times you hadwith your friends?
Yes.
Because you see these, you know,there are movies about like
loner kids.
Yes.
Tell me more about me.
Who have one or two friends, butthey're like great friendships.
Yeah.
No, and I think that's what'skey.
I did have great friendships atthe time.
(15:31):
They're not my friends nowbecause I didn't keep up with
them.
Yeah.
No, we like, and that's fine.
We grow, but they were myfriends at the time and yeah,
they helped me througheverything, so I don't feel like
I missed out on anything.
'cause what did I miss?
If I, If I was popular and I didgo outta the parties, what was I
getting?
Everyone was straight.
I was gay straight.
but also I would live in NorthCarolina.
Where was I going to party?
Oh, that's true.
Someone's house.
(15:51):
The parking lot.
AKA Y.
I was cruising down the street.
Not cruising, cruising, Thepark.
The Walmart parking lot is acrazy, I grew up in Hicksville.
Crazy place to be.
There was nowhere to go.
The closest place was Charlotte,which is 45 minutes away longer
because we didn't have a highwaythen.
So it was long.
It was probably like an hour anda half to go to Charlotte.
It like no one's going whenthey're 17 to Charlotte, in my
(16:12):
mind, like you're Amish.
That is wild.
Goes by.
Yeah.
So great.
Love that.
Yeah.
I feel like we just were in, inthe trenches then for far longer
than I anticipated.
The trenches are good place tothis, this podcast about the
trenches.
No, I know, I know.
We're digging trenches.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We are actually actively diggingtrenches.
Where do you want to move into?
(16:34):
I want to talk about though isadult friendships, big spooky
adult friendships, big spookyadult friendships, dun, because
first of all, unless you live inyour hometown and you grow up
and you're still friends with abunch of people that you went to
school with or college with, oryou worked with your first few
(16:54):
jobs or your.
Friends.
Friends or your like boyfriend'sfriends or your part Yeah.
Your partner's friend groups andjust became a whole clique.
Who are your friends?
Because I know my brother'sfriends are his friends from
uni, his friends from school,his friends from work.
Those are his friends.
(17:14):
Okay.
When I think about our friends.
Like my friends are my friendsfrom Berlin when I lived there.
My friends from Australia when Ilived there.
Like it's just meeting peoplewhen you travel around.
But when you move to a new city,you don't have any friends.
So two years ago we moved hereand we didn't know a single
person.
Mm-hmm.
Worth knowing.
Keep that in, that I don't,whoa, fuck shots fired.
(17:37):
So we didn't know anyone worthnoting.
Yeah.
So we basically didn't have anyfriends for months.
Yeah.
We had one friend when we movedhere.
One person that we knew from theinternet.
But then again, like this is howyou make friends.
Exactly.
We're getting into how did wemake these friends?
We did the same thing inToronto.
We did the same thing in Berlin.
Did you have friends in Berlin?
Were there, I have so manyfriends in Berlin.
When you moved there.
No, but it was really, I feellike it was easier.
That's what I was saying and Iwas like, early twenties.
(17:58):
Moved to Berlin and I was like,I'm just gonna meet people.
It was easy.
I met my first like friend, myfirst best friend she became
best friends with for like twoyears of living in Berlin within
the first weekend of me livingin Berlin.
And then I was just integratedinto her friend group
immediately.
Do you?
And that was my friend group fortwo years.
do you think it was easierbecause we've lived, so we've
moved to Berlin, we've moved toToronto, we moved to San
(18:19):
Francisco basically withoutknowing anyone.
Mm-hmm.
Three cities at different pointsin our lives.
Australia too.
so that's like early twentieswas Berlin.
Mid twenties.
Twenties was Toronto and thenlate twenties Totally.
To now thirties.
Yeah.
Is San Francisco.
So we moved to different cities.
I doing one state one.
Yeah.
We moved to these different,three different cities at three
different points in our life.
So do you think it was easier tomake friends in Berlin in your
(18:40):
Yeah.
Lower, lower twenties.
Early twenties.
Twenties than it was moving toSan Francisco in your thirties?
Yes, a hundred percent.
Why?
I am so glad you asked thatquestion.
Like I knew that you, I know itwas on your mind, so I was
partying more, like that waslike the main, my main goal in
my early twenties.
Like I'm going out of, partyingso much.
(19:01):
And in my early twenties.
And also I knew one person fromAustralia that I like knew at
the hostel.
I met up with again in Berlin,and then he introduced me to
someone that he knew when he wastraveling in Australia.
And that became my friend, butbecause we were both from the
uk.
It was easy.
And it was just easy to be like,oh, come to this party.
Come to that party.
I don't have any obligations.
(19:21):
I like, I'm single.
I am.
I think that also is a keycontributor.
Being single and being like, Ican do anything I want whenever
I want.
I'm gonna go out every singlenight.
I'm gonna go whenever I want,whenever I wanna go somewhere,
I'm just gonna do it.
I've got no obligations.
I've got no responsibilities.
Responsibilities is the word Iwas looking for.
I was gonna say, I dunno what Iwas gonna say.
yeah, I was like, oh, thisperson's having a house party or
(19:43):
a pregame for this thing orwhatever.
Do you wanna come to our houseand just smoke some weed?
Say that it's legal.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
We live in California.
That's true.
And then I'd be like, yeah,absolutely.
And then you just like bond.
Bond over.
Mm.
Weed.
Yeah, weed marijuana.
(20:05):
And I just think that's just, Ithink also in Berlin it was
easier because it's it's, thereare German people living there,
obviously, but it's a veryexpat, heavy city, expat,
whatever that word is.
so you seek each other out?
Yeah.
Like people from the uk it's alot of.
British and Australians livingin Berlin.
Yeah.
So you will seek other peopleout.
'cause everyone else is seekingeveryone out too.
Totally.
Because Germans are not, if I'mlike at a random party or even
like at the workplace, like I'mstill friends with like most of
(20:27):
the people I used to work with.
You also worked because I didwork and that's another key
contributor.
Yeah.
Moving to a new city and havinga job.
Where you actually go into thejob.
Place the job, place.
Fuck me.
Been outta the job for a whileinto the job.
Yeah, I know exactly.
But because we're self-employed,we moving, we moved to San
Francisco.
It was so difficult.
'cause when we moved to Toronto.
(20:47):
Actually, here's a veryinteresting point.
You moved to Berlin and you wereself-employed.
Yeah.
You moved to Toronto and youwere self-employed.
Yep.
You moved to San Francisco andwe're both self-employed.
Yep.
I moved to Berlin and I got ajob.
Yeah.
Most of the girls I'm friends,still friends with are still are
friends from the office.
Yeah.
I moved to Toronto and I workedat a hotel.
I guess like a lot of thosepeople.
(21:09):
Were my core friend group untilI made friends with other
people.
Mm-hmm.
Because I still speak to some ofthose people I used to work
with.
But then I guess they like, theybleed out into a wider friend
group.
And then here was the mostdifficult place I've ever found
making friends because I movedhere, self-employed.
Huh?
Yes.
So now I, oh, now you understandmy trauma.
Now I understand you a littlebit.
Oh my God.
Also I think it's easier for you'cause you're more of an
(21:30):
extrovert than I am.
Like I'm very introverted.
Yeah.
And it's very like, I likespending my time on my own.
So I would, I find myself, ifI'm, if I have a choice between
going out and staying in, leantowards staying in.
So when I was in Berlin and whenI was in Toronto.
Especially, I was self-employedand you were working, so I was
like, it was harder for me tofind groups of friends that I
wanna be friends with.
Yeah.
(21:50):
I would meld into yourfriendship groups a little bit,
especially in Berlin.
More so in Berlin than Toronto.
'cause I did find like somecommunity in Toronto through
Barry's.
Oh.
Through working out, which I,looking back on it, not the
best, not the Barry's Co, likethe Fit fan, but I did find some
sort of community and friendshipthere, which.
It's saying a little bit ofsomething for Barry's.
Yeah.
But also I feel like you werequite good at finding friends
(22:11):
through social media.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's been like your biggestthing.
Because when we moved to, werethey good friends?
No, when we moved to Bur, when Imoved to Berlin, I had like my
friends through just likesocializing I found a lot, a
couple of friends through socialmedia and Berlin too.
But then again, but the friendsthat you had in Berlin were both
through Instagram?
Yeah.
Yeah, because I was just likeworking by myself, and it's
like, where do you go?
They were all awful, by the way.
(22:31):
I know all of you're like Iknow, I know, I know.
To run friends from Berlin werelosers.
So was I.
And had the personality of a,like an eggshell.
So did I probably at that point.
No, you were interesting.
They were, you were interesting.
A speckled egg.
Yeah, like an ostrich egg.
An ostrich egg.
There's so much to it, but likemoving to San Francisco was.
(22:52):
Probably the hardest because A,we were together.
So when you're single, it'seasier to make friends.
When you're together withsomeone, it's harder to make
friends just because you have todo everything together and it's,
whatever.
You don't have to, but it's morecomfortable when you move to a
new city to do things together.
And not have your separatethings, which we hadn't had.
Until like probably last year.
But then if we were like alsosocializing, we'd be like, oh,
we're both coming.
'cause this, right?
(23:12):
Because why not?
This is now our socialinteraction of the month.
And then B, we were self, bothself-employed, so we didn't go
to a workplace.
We'd make videos together.
We don't really have coworkers.
We have a couple, one influencerfriend in the city who's great.
Yeah.
But other than that, like SanFrancisco is also not an
influencer city.
Like maybe in LA or New York.
We might go to more events.
No, that was the main reason wewanted to move to San Francisco
(23:32):
because Exactly.
It wasn't an influencer city.
Oh, we can talk about influencerfriends.
They're fucking annoying.
I don't want influencer friendstalk about Toronto.
I don't talk about Toronto.
Well, well Your first, like yourfirst friend group.
Like, when I first startedworking at that hotel in
Toronto.
Yeah.
I was making friends left right,and center.
'cause you know it's a hotel.
Yeah.
Everyone's young and hot.
Yeah.
And artistic.
And I'm like, I fit right in.
Amazing.
(23:52):
But then you, oh, I'm also, I'mat work for.
8, 9, 10 hours a day.
I'm like, what are you doing?
What are you doing?
I went to a coffee shop and satdown and tried well, I was a
freelance writer at the time, acopywriter.
I was a copywriter and aninfluencer, so I was doing like
copywriting and I don't know,fucking planning my Instagram
posts.
You used to go to a cafe?
(24:14):
Cafe.
I'm like.
Work.
I would pretend to work so Ifelt productive.
You would work nine to five justso you could feel like you had a
job, a purpose, a job job, yeah,like a purpose, which I'm like.
Okay.
Realistically, our career pathand like luckily our like social
media success has allowed us tobe able to create our own
schedules.
Yeah.
And unless I have sponsoredcontent or branded partnerships
(24:36):
to focus on, I'm gonna do mypodcast or I'm gonna do my like
Instagram stuff, I'm gonna doTikTok stuff together and that's
like fun.
And we get to make that at ourown.
Pace and Yeah, schedule.
Schedule.
You used to go into a cafe?
To what?
To socialize, make friends?
No.
Did you make friends?
At the fuck?
No.
Do you think I talked to anyone?
No.
I think I just wanted like asense of normalcy or a sense of
(24:58):
like community where I could tryto find it, which was just like
a cafe where I would part likework so I did make influencer
friends through our agency thatwe were represented by in
Toronto.
You knew some of the peoplethough before you moved.
I did know some of the peoplebefore we moved through
Instagram.
I don't, they're not listening.
Talk shit.
I'm not, they're not listening.
They're specifically shit aboutthem.
I will, I don't give a fuck.
I did.
I think most, some of lame assfucking people.
(25:21):
I think most people in, most ofthe influencers in Toronto are
not most, we have a, we, I, wehave one influencer friend in
Toronto who I adore.
Luna Lindsay, love you.
I'll call her out.
She's the best.
Because she's a real person.
Yeah.
On and offline.
Totally.
Like she is the same online asshe is offline.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Most influencers.
This is why I'm not friends witha lot of influencers are
(25:41):
wonderful.
Influencer friend in the city inSan Francisco is the same online
as she is offline.
Yeah.
A little more un unhingedoffline, and I love it.
You one could say that we'remore unhinged in real life than
we are in I know.
On social media.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
But which is a good thing.
Like you, you should be moreunhinged in real life.
A hundred percent because you'relike.
You've got like a stick up yourass which is the case for most
of these influencers.
When I first got immersed intoinfluencer culture in Toronto,
(26:03):
I'm working at a hotel, but I,in the evenings I'm going to
like random events with you andToronto is a very like
influencer.
It's a big influencer hub andthere's just events all the
time.
So that was a good way to go outand socialize and meet people.
No one would give me the time ofday Yeah.
Until I started like building myInstagram or like my Instagram
started.
Yeah.
Coming up and then we startedgetting big on TikTok.
All of a sudden, I'm gettingthese dms from people I've known
(26:25):
now for a year in Toronto whoall of a sudden want to get to
know me are giving me the timeof day.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, you're fake as fuck.
And also when I'm meeting thesepeople I can see them online and
I'm like, oh, you seem so funonline.
Or I'm meeting these people thatI may have seen or followed on
Instagram for a while and I'mlike, oh, you're awful in person
or boring and that and or sofucking boring.
Yeah.
You have the personality.
(26:46):
Oh my god.
Oh my fucking God.
Don't even degrade Eggs.
Shows like that.
Even they're worse.
Some eggs shows couldn't evenfind their personality out of a
fucking cereal box.
That is so crazy.
Like you couldn't even find thepersonality out of the prize of
a cereal box.
Yeah.
The worst.
That is crazy.
And this is why they're not myfriends, And then it made me
like really question like the,like in that industry as a
whole.
But I feel like maybe like theswitch in social media to being
(27:08):
less Instagram focused andcurated.
Yeah.
To then being like TikTok andyou have to have a bit of a
personality to succeed in this.
Yeah.
And then we saw a huge rise inpeople who actually are a bit
more interesting.
Yeah.
I remember we talked about thislike in the pandemic, we were
like, oh my God, these arepeople like who are actually
fun.
And we started going into likeTikTok events or people were
like doing per personality basedstuff rather than just here's a
(27:28):
photo of a coffee cup on thisfloor in this cafe.
'cause it has nice tiles.
Shut up.
No.
You know who exactly I'm talkingabout.
I know who you're talking aboutbecause the lay ass bitch ass
bitches.
Also, I think a Toronto is acity where the first question
people ask you is what do youdo?
Yeah.
What do you do?
San Francisco, I feel like isnot that city.
(27:49):
I don't think I even know whathalf my friends do.
I'm still confused about whatmost of our good friends do for
work.
Not confused.
I just never asked.
The thing is I don't wanna know,nor do I care.
I don't wanna know.
And to give your industry, tellme what's been on going on day
to day.
Give me the tea.
Gimme the office tea.
Yeah.
Tell me.
Yeah.
But we don't care.
I don't care.
No one cares.
No one cares about jobs.
No one really asks about likeour jobs and I don't really
(28:10):
particularly care about talkingabout it.
Yeah.
But Toronto very much was up.
It's in my opinion I don't knowif sometimes people's jobs are
like the most interesting thingabout them.
And for the case of many peoplein Toronto that we knew their,
like influencer careers weretheir most interesting things
about them.
I just don't know if that's themost interesting thing about,
it's one of them.
It's one interesting thing aboutAbout us.
About us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We've got so many interestingthings.
(28:31):
It's just my day job.
Yeah.
It's just my day job.
It's how I make money.
I'm just sat here talking into amicrophone and you're listening.
I do.
As my friend.
Thank you, friend.
Oh, they're our friends.
I was gonna get into it.
I was gonna get into it.
What?
Our online friends, they'rebeing our friends.
Yeah.
Them.
Them being our friends.
I think one of the most, ontopic, not on topic.
On point.
(28:52):
No, on the tip of your tongue.
I think one of the things that'slike currently been going on in
my brain recently, on the top ofyour head, on the top of my
tongue.
Tip of my toenail has beenfriends.
What?
That I've met recently?
Yes.
Okay.
So in the last two and a halfyears since we've lived in San
(29:12):
Francisco, which is crazy, twoand a half, almost two and a
half years wild we didn't knowanybody.
And San Francisco is the firstcity that I think, either of us
I've ever lived in where it's Sogay.
Like this gay male.
Gay male, yes.
It's very gay male.
Oriented.
That's like the demographic isjust like lots of gay men.
(29:33):
Yes, white.
And I've never had a group ofgay male friends before Toronto.
We had like, we knew a bunch ofgay people.
Berlin is such a queer city, butI never had a group of just like
gay friends.
Me, neither ever.
And I feel like it's just like athing.
People are just like, have them.
And that on social media all thetime.
They're just like, people justlike move in packs of men.
(29:55):
White ones.
White ones at that.
And I just found, I found itreally difficult to figure out
where I fit into thatdemographic or that or that like
life.
And so lifestyle.
Yeah.
Maybe the lifestyle because it,homosexual lifestyle because at
the time, I really enjoyed itlast year when I was like going
out so much.
It's it's a really social thingand I think all of a sudden I'm
(30:16):
like, ah, I'm partying.
I'm like going out again andlike I'm having this resurgence
of like nightlife culture.
Because that's what friendship,that's how I think I justified
making friends and I'm like, oh,I'm making so many great
friends.
It's 5:00 AM at some randomperson's house.
What the fuck am I doing withthese random people?
At 5:00 AM.
Those friendships did not last,or no, they did not withstand
(30:38):
shocker the test of time.
But I think it's interestingthat like we moved here and I
like, it made me like a littlebit insecure.
It made me a little bit like,ooh, I dunno where I belong.
I dunno where I fit into thisculture.
And I just feel like it, I thinkit's in my mind, I think it's a
very San Francisco based thing.
And I don't know if it would'vebeen different if we had moved
to New York, for example, whereit was a bit more diverse.
(30:58):
And a little bit more like.
I don't know.
I just love women so much andthis has been the first place
I've lived where like I have tworeally close girlfriends.
And then the rest are all men.
Crazy.
That's crazy to me.
I will say it's not like youcan't make really good friends
in San Francisco'cause two ofour.
Like best friends we met hereand that's how we met our two
good girlfriends.
(31:19):
Yeah.
And I'm like, you can, it's, itis just rarer.
I think because the city issmaller, a smaller city.
It is a small city.
compared to New York, like it'slike there's, its densely
populated size.
It's densely populated, butstill small.
Two.
Everyone's been priced out.
So because it's reallyexpensive.
So all of the, like the artistsand the queer people and like
the people who can't afford tolive here have been priced out.
(31:40):
So the cool people, the coolpeople are living in Oakland or
Berkeley or they moved somewhereelse.
Yeah.
Those two points I think meanthat it's harder to make friends
who aren't white working in techmen, literally.
It's just I feel like this cityis like very copy paste of so it
was, I found it difficult tomake friends'cause I'm like.
Some of you people are reallynot interesting at all.
Love some of them.
(32:00):
Some of them have becomefriends.
Some have become our closest.
It is rarer.
It's rarer.
I think in New York or la?
Not even.
Not la.
I'm not gonna say la.
New York or Chicago.
Oh, Chicago.
No, I don't know about Chicago.
I don't know.
Oh, Chicago is also very white.
Gay.
Yeah.
Chicago is very white.
Gay.
But also they're like financebros.
Yeah, that's true.
New York, I just miss havinglike a diverse, I mean, I I do
(32:20):
have a diverse friend groupbased off of like my current
friends now, but last year whenI was just like out in Yeah, the
droves of gay men, it wasn'tvery diverse.
I was like one of the darkestpeople in the room.
It's like you were like all thespaces you were going into and
putting yourself into Yeah.
Were those spaces filled withthose people?
Because I felt I was like, howam I supposed to make friends if
I'm not going out?
(32:41):
Yeah.
It is.
How am I supposed to makefriends?
Because that's what I used to dowhen I was in my early twenties.
But now my, I'm in my earlythirties.
But now it's a decade later.
I think it's more important nowto tone down, siphon away.
have a couple of friendshipgirls, not 50 friendship girls.
Yeah.
The older, I just think, yeah,the older you get, obviously
(33:01):
it's natural for you to losefriends and just like your core
group gets smaller and smaller,which I love, but that feels,
and I wish that people weren'tlike moving around all the time
because if we stayed in Toronto,we had such a core group of
friends.
You are listening.
I know you are and I fuckinglove you.
And our best friend's husband?
No, who's also our best friend.
(33:23):
I'm keeping that one in there.
I quick plug to our friend groupin Toronto.
I think I was so sad aboutleaving them because we just we
formed such a close bond withthese people and we had to leave
the country, but we also didwanna leave Toronto anyway.
Like it was just like, yeah, theplace was just like, not for us.
Yeah.
We left behind such a fuckingbeautiful group of people and I
was like scared that we weregonna lose them.
(33:45):
But I think if you like try hardenough, you can make any
friendship work.
We speak to these people likealmost every day.
All the time.
Yeah.
All the time.
Any random reference comes up,anything that pops up, like
we're speaking all the time.
Yeah.
And then we met how seen eachother in now almost a year and a
half.
Yeah.
Since the last wedding.
I think that's when you can tellthat the friendship is going to
stand the test.
Totally.
But then our, like two closestfriends that we met here, our
(34:07):
first core group in SanFrancisco, two of them left and
moved to New York within sixmonths.
Yeah.
Which was like a big blow.
Fuck you, Fuck you cunts.
But then we still speak to themevery single day.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
you know when those friendshipsare gonna be the ones that
you're gonna keep on.
Yeah.
And you know which ones you'regonna let go of.
But I think it's when you, likeday to day are like you're
(34:29):
living in the city and you,maybe your closest friends
aren't with you.
'cause then my best friend wholives in Berlin, still my like
closest friends who lives inthe, who live in the uk.
I wish they could just all livetogether on an island that would
be fun on a little island,friendship island, but then they
don't know each other.
Friendship Island.
Friendship Island.
That's a good title.
Hi guys.
Welcome to Friendship Island.
Friendship Island.
(34:49):
Welcome to Friendship Island.
That's a good title.
It is.
Welcome to My Island.
Oh yeah.
Palm Trees, Carolyn Che.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, I was thinking of theCharlie Xcx version, but the
Charlie XX remix, Charlie Xcxversion of Welcome to My Island.
Yes.
I'll show it to you later.
The Caroline Hick song?
Yeah.
They did a collab on it.
Oh, we did not know.
(35:10):
You'll hate it.
What was I gonna say?
Oh, what was I gonna say?
I was gonna say, oh, friendship.
Oh, friendship.
Friendship.
Making friends.
Because you like, you thinkgoing to parties, you're gonna
make the best friends of yourlife.
And some of them Sure are.
Pretty good friends I think makegoing to things based on your
like interests, hobbies.
Hobbies.
Well, Some of these girls don'thave any hobbies who.
The fucking people that we know.
Everyone that we met last yearat the park, in the party scene,
(35:31):
no hobbies.
Not a single hobby in sight.
Yeah.
I think apart from maybepickleball.
Yeah.
Oh, pickleball.
But most of them aren't evenplaying pickleball.
I know they're going to the gym.
They're doing steroids and thenthey're going to the club and
then they're doing Ketamine.
The Castro.
Yeah.
Literally, I think going, but Ithink generally as a 30-year-old
(35:52):
who's, I'm a 30-year-old now.
Crazy.
You've been 30.
I know.
It's crazy.
I'm almost 31.
31.
I know that's crazy for you.
Almost 33.
Yeah, don't age me like that.
I think at this point in ourlives, it's more if we want to
make friends, the better friendsare going to be made going to
things, doing things that youenjoy or like trying new things.
(36:12):
Clay.
Clay, you keep saying clay.
Clay is the.
it's doing a ceramics class.
It's a product.
It's like a thing.
Clay is the thing.
You doing a ceramics class, youkeep saying I wanna go do clay.
Yeah, I like it.
What do you mean I wanna go dobrick?
Like What do you mean?
It's the do talk about theactivity, not the product you're
gonna use whilst you do thething.
I just like how it sounds.
(36:33):
I'm on du plays like so strange.
What do play, I know I got you aclass.
For fucking Christmas.
Where?
When are you gonna use it?
When are you gonna take me?
When are you gonna go?
You're supposed to take me, Idon't know where it is.
You bought the class.
So annoying.
I think doing things like thatlike ceramics and, I don't know,
just like hobbies that you mightbe interested at a book club or
like farmer's market.
I don't fucking know.
(36:53):
An instrument.
Farmer's markets.
Yeah, you can.
I make friends, the farmer'smarket.
I'm not making friends with thefarmer's market.
You could, you've been to thefarmer's market if you tried to
I'm not making friends with thefarmer's market.
You could'cause first of all,it's either on a Saturday or a
Sunday and I'm gonna behungover, I'm irritable when I'm
hung over.
I'm irritable at the best oftimes.
Irritable all the time.
I'm irritable at the best,exactly the best of times, so
(37:16):
I'm not gonna go to a farmer'smarket to seek out friendship
with what the fucking carrotmanufacturer.
That'd be pretty fun for youmaybe.
The carrot man.
Sure.
The carrot manufacturer.
Man.
I don't know the guy who makescarrots fucking out.
You mean the farmer?
Yeah, the farmer.
The farmer's market.
(37:36):
Oh yeah.
Duh.
Not the manufacturer of thefucking farmer's market.
You're insane.
I was trying to think of thename for the people who like are
the farmer's?
Market farmers?
Turns out the farmers market.
Yeah.
The market of farmers.
Turns out it's just the marketfor farmers.
You're insane.
say.
How do you feel about yourfriends, your, like social as
your social life right now?
Maybe not so much your sociallife, but like how you feel
(37:57):
about the fact that you haveformed friends over the last
like couple years specificallybecause it relates to how you
feel like right now in yourfriend groups.
I feel better about my friendsnow than I did last year.
I'm, as I said, an introvert, soit's harder for me to make
friends or it takes me a littlebit longer to want to be friends
(38:17):
with someone.
Let's say that much.
Okay.
I need, it takes me a while tobreak through for someone to
break through to me.
'cause I'm like, I need to knowif you're actually a good person
or not, or if you're just like.
Someone who's fickle or someonewho doesn't like, who I don't
wanna be friends with.
So last year I was trying tomake friends with everyone.
I was like, let me be friendswith every single person that I
meet.
That's not me.
and I think you see me doing it.
(38:38):
Sure.
Yeah.
And you're like, oh, I feel likeI should also do that.
Or like if I'm making plans.
Totally.
You're like, I kind of wannastay in, but I feel like I have
to go.
'cause like no a, I love stayingin.
So I love saying, and I lovebeing by myself.
Live for that.
A cozy night in so good.
I don't wanna go out all thetime.
I'm tired.
You have your book friends andyour internet friends.
I do have my internet.
Friends.
Friends.
I also have my real friends.
(39:00):
I like having, you're like, youmake me seem like a fucking
loser.
I have friends, a lot of themactually.
Good.
I know.
I'm siphoning away.
Siphoning, is there a betterword than that?
I'm like cutting away the fat.
Also worse, I don't know.
Taking away the people that justaren't actual friends that will
(39:20):
be friends for life.
Cut off the fat.
That was brutal.
That was brutal.
I made a lot of acquaintanceslast year.
Yeah.
And they will.
Oh, I have so manyacquaintances.
Stay acquaintances.
I have so many acquaintances,but I want my core group of
girls who I can rely on.
Yeah, the people I can rely on.
The people I could text if I washaving a bad day or if I need
advice on something.
That took a while.
That takes a while.
Yeah.
It does take a while.
(39:40):
And it took two and a halfyears.
Yeah.
Where I feel comfortable now.
I think that's a good bench.
Benchmark.
Bench park.
Yeah.
Bench park.
Benchmark.
Benchmark.
Sometimes I'm like, do we knowEnglish?
No, I don't at all.
Also, we film this when we'relike, it's the afternoon.
I've worked out.
I've heard we've in meetingstoday.
Oh my God, my brain's scattered.
I.
Oh my God.
What a hard you.
What a hard life.
You worked out and you had onemeeting.
(40:03):
Yeah.
And then I had to make myselfAnd you're oof.
What a big day.
Yeah.
My head hurts.
I need a nap.
I do need a nap.
I'm like watching the dog takethe deepest nap ever.
And I'm like, I wish I could dothat.
Someone's gotta pay for herfood.
That's a good benchmark for Ithink finding.
Your core friend group, theamount of time it takes.
Yeah.
I think two years or to feellike settled in a new city.
(40:25):
No.
Two years is generally the timewhere you would decide whether
you want to leave a city or stayin a, we only stayed in Toronto
for four years because we gotstuck there for two years.
For Covid?
Yeah, we were gonna move up tothe first year.
No, it was after the first year.
We both.
Told each other, we didn't wannalive there anymore.
Yes.
So we would've been gone fromToronto by the two year mark.
Probably.
We left Berlin before the twoyear mark.
(40:45):
Pretty much.
Mine was You were at the twoyear mark?
Mine was over two years.
Mine was before the two yearmark.
San Francisco.
I don't feel a an urgency toleave yet.
No, I think we're chilling.
I like to chill.
Yeah.
I will.
Like eventually, I think theslow paced nature of this city.
And maybe my high paced natureof wanting to socialize.
Yeah.
They don't really click.
And so I think I, maybe twoyears ago if I hadn't moved to
(41:08):
like New York for example Iwould've probably probably
enjoyed that a little bit more.
Yeah.
In terms of like socializing andlike making friends aspect.
But I'm like, actually, let mesit my ass down a little bit.
Let's like chill.
Chill and not, and.
There is no reason to go dosomething every single night
with a different person.
Because the select few peoplethat I do have in my life are
(41:28):
diamonds in the rough.
That's nice.
Also, you don't have enough,like we are only one person that
has, I'm two people, wait.
Hmm.
We are two people and I'm alsotwo people.
You are insane.
We only have enough energy tospread amongst social.
We are sims characters and oursocial meter is only goes up to
(41:52):
a certain level.
Mine's a bit higher than yoursim.
Yeah.
Yours is a bit higher fully, butat the still, you only have a
certain amount of energy to givepeople.
Yeah.
So if you're giving energy to 50people a week Yes.
You're like, I wanna see allthese people.
Crazy.
No, it's so crazy that.
What did I just hear on TikTok?
We were only supposed to knowlike our puny little minds from
hunter gatherer days.
Oh.
This was the series that Iwanted to do back in the day.
(42:13):
What This segment Matt wants todo a segment.
Segment.
I'm introducing a new segment.
Okay it's a good thing.
This is close to the end of theepisode because Matt's
introducing a new segment, whichwe discussed and completely cut
off what I was gonna say, butI'm gonna come back to it in a
second.
Please talk about your segment.
It's called, I read an article.
Quote, unquote.
And it means what did we learnon TikTok that we pretend to say
that we read an article about,do you have one?
(42:37):
You better.
You better come up with one.
I did.
You made a whole fucking danceabout it.
Didn't you?
Made a whole song dance aboutit, but I just had the idea of
the segment and I wanna juststart it.
You, you say yours and I'llthink about mine if I learned
anything to this week, becausewe're at the dinner table.
We talk about the news thatwe've been reading.
Yeah.
So what did you read an articleabout?
I read an article.
That basically we as humanbeings evolved to only know 150
(43:01):
people.
'cause again, back in the huntergatherer days, back in the olden
days hunter gatherer days whenwe were like living in the
fucking cave.
Mm-hmm.
We only knew 150 odd people.
We didn't have social media, wedidn't have planes.
We couldn't go around and likefuck about and meet a fuck ton
people.
Yeah.
We lived in our communities andwe stayed in our little.
Click.
Yeah.
And that was like a hundred, 150people.
(43:24):
Our brains are not hardwired toknow thousands of people.
Why am I at the club with athousand people?
Online and offline?
Online and offline?
Online and offline.
I'm not meant to be seeing abouta thousand people scrolling
through TikTok.
I scroll on TikTok and I'm like,I've seen at least today, at
least maybe 200 people.
Yeah.
(43:44):
And learned about their lives,and learned about their lives.
Learned about a story, I don'tknow, just like something That's
crazy.
Yeah.
I think that's wild.
I'm going to the gym.
I'm seeing like a hundred peoplethere.
Yeah.
I'm scrolling through my phone.
There's another a hundredpeople.
Yeah.
I'm walking down the street.
There's another a hundredpeople.
That's too much.
That's a lot of people.
It's too much.
Our brains can't handle it.
(44:04):
So basically what I'm trying toget at is.
Let's go back into the caves,please.
Simpler times, paint on somewalls.
You'll be listening to the nextweek's episode of Let's Dig In
Through Hieroglyphics on a StoneTablet.
Exactly.
So do you learn anything thisweek?
I, so this week, I can'tremember if I had learned it
(44:25):
this week.
It doesn't have to be this week.
You can just it's a thing that Ilearned that's probably been the
most, the thing that I'veimplemented into my life the
most, because I do it every day.
I used to, and everyone thinksthat you brush your teeth, you
floss, and then you mouthwash.
You used to mouthwash first.
No, you're supposed to false.
You floss first.
(44:46):
Okay.
Then you mouthwash if you'regonna mouthwash.
'cause mouthwash industry is alittle bit of a scam.
You don't really need tomouthwash, but I do because it's
fun.
So you floss, you get all thegun gunk out.
Then you mouthwash, you swirl itout and spit it out.
You get most of the gunk out.
Then you toothbrush, toothpaste.
You brush your teeth fucking outbecause see, you do say this.
You talk about an activity withthe thing that you use.
(45:08):
Yes.
To do the activity.
Shut up.
Then you toothbrush, then youtoothpaste, and you do clay.
So then you brush your fuckingteeth.
Then you brush your fuckingteeth because the toothpaste is
moisturizer.
Ah.
So the toothpaste is themoisturizer of your teeth.
Oh, wow.
So you're not supposed, you'resupposed to keep that on your
teeth overnight and throughoutthe day.
(45:28):
Oh.
'cause I don't like the feelingand taste of that though.
You're supposed to leave it.
I know.
You're supposed to leave itbecause it's like continuing to
make your teeth good.
Yeah.
'cause I will have rinse thatshit off.
And that's changed my, thatarticle has changed my life.
Wow.
TikTok, thank you for TikTok.
I love that segment.
We're keeping that segment.
What if TikTok gets banned onwhat?
On Saturday?
It won't.
Okay, great.
Don't put that in the universe.
You're right.
Delete.
(45:49):
Thank you so much.
Friends.
Our online community that wehave built with the.
Hard work and dedication to justconstantly talk shit online.
Mm.
And you decided to stick aroundand listen to it, so that means
you're the best of friendsactually.
So true.
Yeah.
You stuck with us for 14episodes so far.
Also, there are people that havebeen like following us for, oh,
(46:10):
five years plus years.
7, 8, 7.
I've been doing this for awhile.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You probably have followers fromlike Berlin 2016.
2016.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
That's 4, 5, 9.
That's nine.
That's even nine.
If you've been here since then.
Wow.
Go away.
(46:31):
No, don't go away.
I was a loyal followers.
They were looking to yourlongest.
Longest.
I'm kidding.
Your long, your longest termfriends.
Yeah.
I love the internet.
No, it was, I feel like thatwould've been like your first
community building the internet.
The internet.
Yeah.
Were you ever like making randomfriends on the internet?
Not really.
I did Omegle sometimes.
(46:52):
Oh, that's fucking weird.
You didn't do Omegle, did you?
No.
Fuck.
No.
It's so fun.
No, we should do it sometimes.
Absolutely not.
No, I feel like maybe it was ayounger generation thing, like
my little brother's age, likemaking actual friends online.
Because, yeah, I didn't do that.
You wouldn't watch people playlike video games and stuff?
My little brother made friends.
Like through games and gamingonline?
No.
I was a real, I was, I didn't Iwas like, like on the edge of
(47:13):
that.
I was a real watch.
I was a real person.
I was a real nerd.
I wasn't real life nerd.
I wasn't an online nerd.
I was a real life nerd.
Awful lot nerd.
Okay, if you enjoyed thispodcast, please give us a review
on Apple Podcasts.
And subscribe wherever you wantand follow us.
What about Spotify podcast?
You can also leave a review onSpotify if you want to.
Apple's better, but do on both.
(47:33):
Wherever you listen.
Also, follow us everywhere.
Snapchat, Instagram, TikTok.
If it's still here afterSaturday, it will be YouTube,
Instagram.
Did I say Instagram?
Yeah.
Follow us everywhere and we'llsee you next time.
On.
Let's dig in.
Bye friends.
Bye friends.
Love you.
(47:53):
Oh um, Amigos.
Oh pal.
Oh no.
My friend was a friend inFrench.
Perfect.
Great.
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