Burning Out Before Speaking Up

What happens when the ones who run toward danger can’t escape their own pain?

Firefighter Gary and his wife Wendy, share a powerful story of what PTSD really looks like for first responders. After 15 years on the job, one call broke Gary, leading to months of silence, sleepless nights, and pulling away from his family. Wendy opens up about watching the man she loved disappear, not knowing how to reach him.

Everything changed when Gary finally asked for help and tried ketamine therapy. It didn’t just help him heal, it brought him back to life as a husband, father, and son.

This episode reminds us that real strength isn’t pushing through alone, it’s speaking up. If you or someone you love is struggling, this conversation offers hope, healing, and proof that it’s never too late to come back to yourself.

This podcast dives deep into real, raw topics—think vulnerability, triggers, and childhood trauma. But just so we're super clear: I’m not a licensed therapist, mental health professional, or anything close. I’m just a human sharing stories, lessons, and life hacks based on personal experience and a whole lot of curiosity.

So, while you might find some golden nuggets here, this is not therapy and should never replace professional mental health care. If you or someone you love is going through it, please—seriously—reach out to a licensed therapist or healthcare provider. You deserve the real deal.

Need Help Now?
Here are a few amazing resources:

· 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (U.S.): Call or text 988
· NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-NAMI (6264) or nami.org/help
· Therapy Directory: psychologytoday.com
· Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741

The opinions expressed on this show are ours and ours alone—no official organizations are responsible for what we say (or how much we overshare).

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'd love to help you get vulnerable.
Let's get naked.
Hey everyone, I'm Ann.
Welcome to the let's Get Nakedpodcast, where we dive deep into
vulnerability.
In this space, we'll explorewhat triggers us, uncover the
patterns holding us back anddiscover how to take charge of
our own growth.
If you're ready to dig in, bevulnerable and face the tough

(00:30):
stuff, then buckle up.
It's time to get naked.
On today's episode, we're goingto be talking about PTSD, the
kind that firefighters and firstresponders carry home like
smoke in their clothes, not fromone moment of trauma, but from
years of chaos, from answeringcalls no one else wants to

(00:51):
answer, From being the first onthe scene when someone is dying,
screaming or already gone, fromholding the line between life
and death and pretending like itdoesn't wear you down.
It's not just the fires theyrun into, it's the ones they
bring home in their head.
We praise them as heroes, butno one talks about what it costs

(01:12):
to be one.
No one warns them that allthose images, all that
adrenaline, all thathelplessness you try to ignore
it doesn't just go away.
It builds, it calcifies, ithaunts.
Ptsd creeps in like a silentintruder and suddenly sleep is a
battleground, sounds areweapons, your own thoughts, a

(01:35):
minefield.
But it's not just thefirefighter who lives with PTSD,
it's their family.
It's the spouse who gets theshort, clipped responses, the
one who holds their breathduring every shift and then
holds back tears when the personwho walks through the door
barely feels like the one theymarried.
It's the partner who absorbsthe unspoken grief, the buried

(01:58):
rage, the silence that screamslouder than any siren.
And yet the hardest, bravestwork isn't running into the fire
, it's facing the one inside.
The real courage comes whenthat firefighter finally says I
need help.
When they step into therapy,when they open up, even just a

(02:19):
little, when they begin tounravel the knot of pain that's
been choking them for years.
That's not weakness, that'swarrior-level bravery, because
healing that's not passive, it'snot some peaceful retreat, it's
gritty, it's terrifying.
It means revisiting the worstdays of your life, so they stop

(02:40):
owning you.
It means letting your guarddown in a world that taught you
to armor up.
It means dragging the weightout of the dark and saying I'm
not carrying this alone anymore.
And for the spouses, the unsungheroes, it takes immense
strength to stand beside someonewho's falling apart and even
more to set boundaries and stilllove them through the process

(03:03):
and even more to set boundariesand still love them through the
process.
To say I'm here, but I needsupport too, that takes guts.
That's love in its rawest,realest form.
So let's stop pretending PTSDis some rare thing.
Let's stop glamorizing survivaland start honoring healing.
Let's celebrate the firefighterwho puts in the work to get

(03:28):
better.
Let's lift up the spouses whowalk that brutal road right
alongside them, because thatkind of quiet courage that's the
kind that saves lives,marriages and futures and that
deserves just as much respect,maybe more, than the job ever
did.
Today I'm stripping it all offwith Gary and his wife Wendy.
Gary has been a firefighter inthe Valley and paramedic for 20

(03:51):
years and a peer support teammember for four years.
Wendy also worked in the firedepartment for 22 years in admin
and she is also a photographerand business owner and prides
herself in being a fire wife andnow fire mom.
Welcome to the show, you guys.
Yeah, thanks for joining.
So, gary, I'd like to startwith you if maybe you can just

(04:13):
kind of give a little bit abouthow you became a firefighter and
first responder, what drove youto do that and kind of how you,
what your journey was instarting with that.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, so I remember I think it was about eighth grade
one of my teachers made acomment that she thought I would
be a good cop.
So from eighth grade up, goingthrough high school and then
into college, I always wanted tobe a cop.
I did test one year for a localpolice department.
Didn't get it.
And Wendy was working for afire department and actually

(04:48):
spoke to a fireman who used tobe a cop and he was like, tell
him to come and ride with me.
So I went to the station, rodealong with him and loved it.
So then I tested with the firedepartment and ended up getting
hired.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Nice, okay, what was that like initially?
Did that?
Was that everything you thoughtit was going to be?
Did you not know what to expectwhen you first started kind of
going out on on calls and doingthe damn thing?

Speaker 2 (05:16):
You know, I knew so.
Like just about everybody thatgets hired in the fire
department does ride alongs, andthen you do more than one ride
along, you do multiple ridealongsongs.
You end up seeing um the callsthat they go on the fires, the
ems calls.
So I kind of knew what I wasgetting into.
Um the offer, the call wise.
I did know what I was gettinginto, yeah okay, when did you

(05:40):
feel like shit's getting real?

Speaker 1 (05:42):
you know how long had you been doing things where you
started seeing some stuff whereit was like holy shit getting
real.
You know how long had you beendoing things where you started
seeing some stuff where it waslike holy shit?
I don't know that.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
I knew I was signing up for this it wasn't until I
had about 15 years on, okay,yeah, okay.
And to go back when I did gethired, like I said, she was
working for the fire departmentand the day I got the call that
I was going to go to the nextacademy, wendy, I called.
I called Wendy and told Wendyand she told me she asked me do

(06:07):
me a favor, just don't change.
I was like and I thought whatthe hell are you talking about?
Why am I going to change?
You know?
But she had noticed guys comingthrough, young on the job,
certain character had more timeon the job, turned into somebody
else.
We didn't know why.
So she, yeah, just asked me notto change.

(06:29):
And, again, like I said, I hadno idea what she was talking
about.
But it wasn't until about 15years on, when I went on a
certain call and I've hadhundreds of these calls.
It was a code and it was anadult.
And, like I said, I've hadhundreds of these calls.
It was a code and it was anadult.
And, like I said, I've hadhundreds of them.
And it's typically when they'renot breathing and their heart

(06:51):
has stopped or their heart's inmaybe a funky rhythm, but going
on this call.
As we were there, I started likegetting sick to my stomach.
We, you know, we worked the guy.
We took him to the hospital andit was closer to dinner time
and we hadn't cooked yet, so wewere going to go eat out.

(07:12):
But I was still just sick to mystomach and just thinking about
this call.
So we go to the restaurant, Iorder my food and I'm thinking
like I'm not going to eat, Ican't eat, and we go back to the
station.
But I still bought it just incase I got hungry.
But I still didn't eat dinnerthat night.
But I kept thinking about thiscall.
So then the next morning we getoff at 8 am in the morning.

(07:35):
I drive home and I'm stillthinking about this guy and I
don't know why, you know.
So I get home and I park in mydriveway and I call somebody on
the job that I really trustedand just told him OK, man, we
had this call and for somereason I can't stop thinking
about it.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
It's bothering me, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
So that's when I started noticing that it was
affecting.
It wasn't.
I didn't notice that I had aproblem.
I just didn't know why I wasthinking about this one, you
know.
So the next two shifts, Iactually called out a work sick.
I had a problem.
I just didn't know why I wasthinking about this one, you
know, um, so the next two shifts, I actually called out a work
sick.
I was thinking, okay, I justneed to sleep a little more.
Um, maybe I need to startworking out a little more.
Maybe I need to take somesupplements to help me.
You know, maybe um, get bettersleep, whatever.
So I called out sick for thosetwo shifts.

(08:23):
And then I go back to work.
And it wasn't like I wasthinking about this call 24-7,
it was more of as soon as Iheard the tones, I would
remember and think about it.
Um, and then things.
So I was a paramedic as well,and then things started getting
to where we I didn't.

(08:44):
I can't even give you anexample of the type of call but
okay, your knee hurts, maybe youshould go to the hospital
because you're not going to die,you're not going to die on me,
even though it's just your knee,you know, I know you're not
going to die, but I don't wantto see death again, so I just
want you to go to the hospital.
That was starting to get alittle irrational and months had

(09:08):
gone by now, and then itstarted to get to where I
started having nightmares aboutthis call and Wendy and I
started thinking about this callmore and more often.
It wasn't just when the toneswent off, but I would think
about it like the whole time Iwas at work.

(09:28):
And then it got to where I wasthinking about it at work and I
was thinking about it at homeand it started to become 24-7,
this call.
And I remember I was somentally like exhausted from
thinking of it.
And another part that was likedriving me crazy was that I saw

(09:49):
a three-year-old shot in thehead and I was able to move on
from that.
This is a grown adult like whyis this one bothering me?
You know, um, like I said, I'vebeen on tons of those, and so
it would come to be at night,and Wendy and I would argue
about this because it would be 7pm at night and I'm ready to go
to bed.

(10:09):
I'm so mentally exhausted fromit, I'm ready to go to bed and I
would tell her, hey, let's goto bed.
Well, she's like I'm not tiredyet, I don't want to go to bed.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
So we would argue about going to bed because I'm
not going to tell her that I'mstruggling, right.
But if she came in at 9 pm andwoke me up, first thing I saw
was that call.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
And I didn't know Right.
And so you're on the outsidetrying to wonder why he's acting
weird.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So she would come in whatevertime.
Her and the dogs would come inand wake me up and I would think
of it and now I would be up forthe rest of the night.
You know, just can't stop.
It was almost like a brokenrecord, um, and even if she came
in and didn't wake me up, if Iwoke up at you know 1 pm, it was
still the first thing that Isaw when I woke up and I would

(10:58):
get up and go to the couch andbut be up, just just nonstop
thinking about it.
And so about nine months went bytrying to figure out what the
hell is going on.
You know, I'm not telling,nobody knew.
Nobody at work knew she had noidea.
I remember driving on thefreeway and I was still thinking
about it and I was like, heyman, you got a problem.

(11:20):
And so I had actually lookedinto calling the counselor on my
own, staying away from mydepartment, I do not want them
to know.
And I did call around to a fewand they're like okay, we can
see you in a month.
No, I can't wait a month, Ineed it now.
So nine months have gone by andI call out of works again, and

(11:42):
I had been calling outfrequently.
My occurrences started going up, which was completely unlike
him.
Right.
And so prior to that, like Iloved going to work, I loved
going to work, I loved helpingpeople, I loved hanging out with
my crew, and it was I loved thejob that happened.

(12:02):
I hated the job.
So nine months went by and Icalled out of work sick two
shifts in a row, and if you callout for a third shift in a row,
you have to get a doctor's noteon why you were out.
And that third shift was comingup and I was like I can't go
back, I can't do it, you know.
Um, and in the meantime sorryto backtrack, just to give you

(12:26):
an example of like we went on ahomeless gentleman on the side
of the road begging for money orfood and somebody witnessed him
fall and called us and we wentthere and he was drunk.
He was so drunk.
Every time we stood him up hewould fall over and he's right
by a busy intersection.
And I'm telling the guy youcan't, we got to take you to the

(12:48):
hospital, you can't be here,you're going to get hit by a car
.
And he knew his rights.
He was like hey, I'm answeringall your questions appropriately
, you cannot take me, but he isdrunk, so drunk, like I said, he
couldn't stand.
So I call our doctor and Iexplained to him exactly what I
have there, because I know he'sgoing to get hit by a car and I
don't want that responsibility.
So I called the doc and put iton the doc and the doc was like

(13:12):
um, basically said you know he'sanswering all your questions,
you can leave him there.
Well, that takes theresponsibility off of me.
But driving back to the stationI'm like I'm thinking to myself
these guys are going to talkshit about me.
I called a doctor on a homelessperson, like who does that?
And I couldn't rationalize that.
Hey, that is the best thing forme as a paramedic, for my crew,

(13:32):
for my the city that I work for, I'm covering all of our bases,
but I, I just thought they'regoing to talk crap about me.
Who does that?
You know?
Um, and I had many instances ofthose throughout those nine
months.
So, like I was saying, I calledout sick two shifts in a row.
The third one came about and Ijust knew I couldn't go back.

(13:53):
So I called out the third shiftin a row and I was like I have
got to get help, you know, and Icalled, like a facility that we
have, for it's a health center,you know.
And I told them I was like, hey, I can't go to work right now,
I can't shut my mind off, whatdo I do?
And they basically told me wedon't know, this is coming from

(14:16):
a doctor.
We don't know.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
How long ago was this ?

Speaker 2 (14:19):
This was in 2020.
Okay, and so I hung up thephone, phone thinking like what
am I going to?
I don't know what to do.
You know, I'm going to quit myjob because I don't want anybody
to know, you know.
So I'd rather quit than anybodyknow.
And um, the doctor ended upcalling me back about an hour
later.
So he obviously asked aroundand he said uh, why don't you

(14:41):
call um?
We have a clinician.
Why don't you call thatclinician a clinician?
Why don't you call thatclinician?
And so I called her andexplained everything to her
crying on the phone.
I couldn't control my emotionsand she said okay, we're gonna,
we're gonna take care of it.
And she asked me do you want tofind your own clinician or do
you want me to find one for you?
And I said no, I'm gonna findmy own.

(15:02):
I'm gonna stay as far away fromyou guys as possible.
And I ended up finding aclinician that was going to get
me in fairly quick and, um, Istarted seeing her and she ended
up uh, I can't remember if itwas the first or second session
I had with her.
She's like why don't you quityour job?

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
And I said I will like, if nothing works, I will
definitely quit, but let's workon everything first and see if I
can get better.
And I still had no idea what Iwas dealing with.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
And she said well, I think by the time we're done
with you, you're going to wantto quit.
And I said okay, well, let'stry.
And she said you know, I gotanother first responder a job at
Home Depot and he loves it.
Why don't you go work in anoffice?
And I this is at work, she'stelling me too.
And I said I don't have anoffice, my office, is a fire
truck right, and so she had noidea what we do for a living.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
You know um she also didn't know what's at stake.
Like they have a pension, theyhave all these things right.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
So if you, leave early.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
You don't get that right like it's a big deal, yeah
, so she didn't have really aclue yeah, and you know I went
in to talk to her about this onespecific call and she wanted to
do EMDR which.
I'm all on board with EMDR.
At the time I didn't know whatit was and I thought it was
foo-foo stuff, um, but shewanted to do it on.

(16:21):
I didn't like to fly and and so, like right off the bat, I
don't trust her.
Like hey, I got bigger problemsright now than I'm not flying
anywhere tomorrow, right.
So I ended up calling back ourclinician and I said, hey, I
need somebody that knows what wedo for a living.
And she ended up hooking me upwith another clinician in her

(16:42):
office and I've to this day Istill see her.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Nice, yeah, okay, so this is back in 2020.
How, wendy, how long like didyou see the signs for this
coming on?
Was this something that you sawkind of unfolding prior to when
this actually occurred, or whatdid that look like from where
you were sitting?

Speaker 3 (17:03):
So I didn't know that they were signs, but I saw them
early on, I would say two yearsof him being on the job.
We were having a ton of trouble, we separated for about three
months, you know, caused allthis devastation with our kids.
They were little, little, likeall of that and, um, I didn't

(17:28):
know they were signs of ptsd.
I literally thought he has abig head, he's big fireman.
Now you know he's an like.
I didn't know any of that, Ididn't know what to look for and
, like he had mentioned, I sawguys come through fire that were
, you know, the greatest guys as, like they call them, a red

(17:49):
shirt, you know, bright eyed andso excited to start this job.
And then, a few years later,some of them I would see and I'm
like that's a completelydifferent person.
But, I had no idea why.
I just thought, you know thatwas just I don't know like a
fluke or something.
I didn't know, I had no idea.

(18:10):
But with us, when you know,when we separated, looking back,
you know how many years latethat was what.
17 years ago, that was a hugelike red flag.
Had I known then what I knownow, I would say those were

(18:36):
signs for sure.
Like back then it was verydevastating, affected our kids a
lot To this day.
I think it still affects mydaughter, um, but after learning
signs and symptoms and all ofthat, we learned about like

(18:56):
secondary PTSD and how we canpass that on to our kids.
And you know we create thatenvironment that they they don't
know, they're just absorbingall this like negative and you
know negativity and I don't know.
So there's a lot of like guiltand shame and responsibility
that I feel for that, becausehad I known sooner, um, maybe we

(19:20):
could have saved our kids fromthat.
But also, living with someonelike that had so many I I didn't
know again, like when he'stalking about that nine month
period.
Yeah, I had no clue.
I thought we were just havingtrouble again.
I thought it was me, I thoughthe doesn't want to be with me,

(19:42):
like we've been together sincehigh school, he's bored, he's,
you know, he's not in love withme anymore, like all of these
things.
And so we were basically livinglike roommates, you know.
We had like a mutual respect,but there was nothing.
It just felt empty.
Um, but I internalized all ofthat.
I thought it was me.
He just doesn't want to be withme anymore, he doesn't want

(20:03):
this family, he doesn't wantlike what, who I am, what I have
to offer, and so I was kind ofputting that on myself without
knowing any different.
So it just created moreproblems.
We just argued more and didn'tlike each other more and it was

(20:24):
yeah, it was miserable.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
That's a rough time to not feel comfortable to speak
with who's supposed to be yourtrusted confidant in that
situation about what you'regoing through.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Right and there's a persona that we want to carry.
You know, I'm a strong guy, Ishould be able to handle that.
You know, of course I didn'twant my crew to know, anybody in
the fire department to know,because there's a big stigma
behind it.
But also I'm their protector,you know, and there's no way in

(20:57):
hell I'm going to let them know,I'm going to deal with this
myself.
You know, not that we fixpeople's problems, but we get
them to people that can fixtheir problems, you know, and we
mitigate them in route orwhatever.
Well, I have a problem and Ican fix my problem on my own.
you know, until you realize Ican't and I hit rock bottom, you

(21:18):
know, and um so yeah, she was.
I'm going to take care of itbefore she finds out.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, the day he went to that very first appointment,
I didn't even know about thathe's leaving and I'm like where
are you going appointment?
I didn't even know about thathe's leaving and I'm like where
are you going?
I have an appointment, likeokay, is everything okay?
And I immediately go to.
You know he's had thyroidcancer so like is I'm thinking
those types of things?
Um, I had no idea what kind ofappointment he had, yeah, so I

(21:49):
didn't even know.
He came home and then he didshare with me.
You know that one call I'mstill thinking about and it kind
of all came out at that time.
I did not know until the day hewas going to that appointment
with the first clinician.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
That wasn't helpful you know too, she brought up
thyroid cancer.
So I found out, I got hired.
Found out I got hired, foundout I had thyroid cancer.
Found out that they couldn'thire me because I was currently
having cancer.
But leading up to that, 15years, before that one call, we
even talked about it like, hey,I need to deal with that thyroid
cancer.
I haven't dealt with that yet.

(22:25):
Maybe that's why I'm havingsome of these problems.
And granted, the thyroid cancerprobably was part of it.
But I think the other stuff,the PTSI, the injury of that,
was starting to set in with me.
But I blamed it on the thyroidcancer because I can do this job
.
I've been doing this job,everybody else can do this job.
Why can't I, you know?
So we both were blaming it onthe thyroid cancer, you know.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Did you feel like, after you've kind of reconciled
and done some of the work onthis one specific instance that
you're referring to, was it thator was that the straw?

Speaker 2 (22:57):
That was the straw?
Okay, yeah, it wasn't, it was.
So the way we like to explainit too was like I have a cup in
every call, put a marble in thatcup, that last call was just I
couldn't put that marbleanywhere else, you know.
And finally going to counselingand talking about that one call
and doing EMDR with that onecall a bunch of other calls

(23:18):
popped up.
You know that I never knew I hadan issue with, but I did, and
for me there was always a themewith them.
You know, families involved.
I talked to family members.
I've seen their reaction, youknow, and a lot of people ask
and I just got asked this lastweek, what was the worst call
you've ever seen.
You know, granted, we see stuffwe should not see.

(23:39):
However, it's the reaction ofthe families that I can't deal
with.
You know that's way harder thanseeing a body down there, you
know so.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
The screams like those are haunting.
You know the mom that lost thebaby.
Those screams, those kind ofthings are, are what he
remembers.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
You know do you feel like it's gotten better as far
as people in that industry beingable to talk about it, or is it
still very?
Um, we'll deal with it veryquietly or not, or I've got this
.
Do you feel like it's stillthat or do you feel like it's
gotten any better?
I think it's gotten a littlebit better.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
It's the stigma behind it, and I actually read
an article that those six wordsor six letters stigma is what's
killing firemen.
You know they don't want to askfor help because they don't
want to be labeled weak orwhat's wrong with them.
We are talking about it more,but I think we could do much
more about it and even get infront of it.

(24:40):
You know, like I talked aboutPTSI, I think we all experienced
that in the fire service andwith me, if I would have.
We've gone on people with PTSDall the time and I always
treated people good, but in mymind I'm thinking this has got
to the time and I always treatedpeople good.
But in my mind I'm thinkingthis has got to be fake.
I don't understand it.
You know, I knew nothing aboutit.
I didn't know I had PTSD untilI saw my second counselor.

(25:02):
She's the one that finally toldme hey, you have PTSD, you know
, but I knew nothing about it.
And if I would have known aboutit prior to, you know, that
call happened and I had all thistraining on PTSD signs and
symptoms.
Hey, maybe what I'mexperiencing is what they've
been teaching me, you know, andit would have stayed an injury,
but because I did not ask forhelp, I allowed it to become a

(25:23):
disorder.
The D in PTSD.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
How were you, how were you raised as far as
emotionally, with your, withyour parents?
Was that something where youwere encouraged to express your
emotions?
Was it something where you knowwe've talked about a lot on
this show stop being a pussy,suck it up, you know?
Is that the the culture thatyou were raised in?

Speaker 2 (25:45):
yeah, my dad my parents were both great.
I have no complaints about myparents at all and you know we
we talk about a lot of people inthe fire service that bring in
baggage.
Like I don't feel like I had alot of baggage coming in, but my
dad was the same way.
I was with my boy.
You get hurt, rub some dirt onit, you hit one home run.
You could have hit two if youdid this.

(26:06):
You know, God, it is rough withyou men.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
I'm telling you like, the more I dive into this stuff
and it's not your fault, soplease don't take it that way,
because I absolutely adore men,but it is, I feel, for you guys.
I sit across the couch frompeople who you know.
I had a gal whose husbandkilled himself because it's just
be strong, just be strong.
We're not supposed to talkabout it.
Well, let's fucking talk aboutit, you know let's.
Let's have it so that wenormalize that shit, instead of
expecting our men to have noresources, no outlet, no

(26:37):
speaking about stuff, no evenbeing able to just have a good
cry by yourself, right, like,where is any of that?
None of that, it's.
You're a pussy.
If you do that, you can'thandle it.
Like you said, the whole stigmafor things, um, you know, it's
what drives me to have theseconversations.
It's because I don't want thatto be a thing.
I don't want anyone to feellike they're isolated and

(26:58):
they're dealing with the weightof the world all on their own
right?
or that we're passing that on toour kids, right?
I mean we watch as we've donethat no, you're right.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
And so when I was struggling, I was so irrational
that I I seriously thought I amthe only fireman that was
struggling.
And, knowing what I know nowand looking back at my career,
I've seen it throughout myentire career from so many
different people you know.
So, yeah, I'm back to how myparents were with me, like we

(27:30):
were talking about earlier.
She was pregnant when I was inhigh school and I had football
practice and I was running offthe field and my dad was there
and he had just found out thatshe was pregnant and he shook
his head no at me and looked atme as I ran off, never said
another word and supported meever since you know.
So they were really good, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
How were your parents growing up?
Did you have siblings, Wendy?

Speaker 3 (28:07):
No, I'm an only child , okay.
I have half siblings now For mydad's.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
my dad had kids, but they're the same age as my kids.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Okay, so, yeah, interesting fun dynamic, my kids
, okay.
So, yeah, interesting fundynamic.
Yeah, um, um.
So single mom for most of mylife.
Um, my mom got married when, Ibelieve if I remember correctly,
I think she was I was 13, um,but he was gone a lot.
He was a truck driver so hewasn't home very much and also,
you know, my mom's was more of Iwas her daughter, not his, so

(28:37):
she was still pretty much kindof handling things.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
So, yeah, Do you feel like in your house, do you talk
about that with your kids now?
Has your healing journey kindof been?
You talk about that with yourkids now?
Has your healing journey kindof been something that you share
with your children or withother people?
Right, I mean, you talked aboutit wasn't something that you
kind of talk about in the firedepartment, but is it something
that you're more open to talkabout now, just because you do

(29:05):
see what?

Speaker 2 (29:06):
oh, 100 percent.
I tell anybody and everybodythat asks I've done her and I
have done a video for the firedepartment, kind of showing what
we've gone through.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
A little bit.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Um, and I'm open about it and what I like about
it is.
So I'll say I had a goodreputation, a great reputation,
prior to this, and I think Istill do, because I always did
the right thing.
I worked hard, you know, I wasa good employee.
People wanted to work with me,and it's a little different in
the fire service because weactually have to live with
people and are you a goodroommate, you know?

(29:41):
So I, I will say I lived myinterview throughout my entire
career.
So now a lot of younger membersthat looked up to me call me
when they're struggling, youknow, and that's what I really
like about it now, and so I'm soopen about it.
But I think the main reason whyI'm open about it is because my
son's a fireman and I actuallyasked him to quit.

(30:02):
You know, I do not want him todeal with this.
What I dealt with, you know,and just the fire service itself
is changing to where cancer ismore prevalent now.
Mental health, it's beingtalked about, so we're seeing a
lot more of it and I want betterfor him, you know.
And so, like I said, I sat himdown.

(30:22):
I was like, dude, why don't youquit, man?
It's not worth it in the longrun, you know, and he's like Dad
, I'm having a good time and Iremember that you know, and so I
said, okay, bub, like I getthat we have all these resources
right here.
You need to use them before youget to where I got, you know.
So, yeah, I'm wide open aboutit and I you know we get we want

(30:46):
to become a fireman and one ofthe reasons why is to help
people.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
I still get to do that, but it's my own members,
you know, and even people that Ilike talking about that and how
helpful that is, or the otheror the other modalities that

(31:15):
you've done to kind of heal someof that stuff where, all of
this time that you have asfirefighters back at the station
, right, what if you actuallyhad things that were implemented
, where you could talk about theshit that you saw right and
process the stuff that you sawas that was happening?
And I don't know if they'regetting better about doing that,
but if you're not, firedepartments, whoever's,
whoever's in charge, do betterright, because you guys are

(31:37):
putting your lives on the lineto serve and to be right.
The guys that are out there,the guys and gals that are out
there that are taking care of us, we should be taking care of
you on the backside of that, sothat that isn't such a stigma
and that isn't something whereit's, we don't talk about it.

(31:58):
You're in a peer support.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Tell me about what that looks like and is that
something that was there beforeor something that's new now?
What you know?
It was there before, but, again, it was still a tool that was
never utilized and or, if it was, so I can give you an example.
We have a criteria of certaincalls that go on a, a drowning,
a pediatric code, pediatrictrauma.
There's I don't know, a list ofcalls that go out, where
there's automatically like atext that goes out, maybe to our

(32:21):
clinician or the peer supportlead, and okay, this crew, these
are all the people that went onthis drowning.
Hey, we need to call them andfind out how they're doing the
next day.
So we do call them.
Hey, I heard you went on thiscall yesterday how are you doing
, man?
But we're tuned to say I'mdoing good, even though I might

(32:41):
not be, you know, and sosomething that I like to do when
I call these guys hey, I heardyou had this call yesterday.
Man, how are you doing?
How's your crew doing?
I'm doing good.
Good, that's good to hear.
Hey, man, I had a call thatfucked me up yeah like I know,
um, it's okay to say this callbothered me, you know, and she
knows about a lot of the callsthat we've been on, and I know

(33:04):
in the past I went on a familythat was run over right in the
middle of the street and we hadthe four-year-old daughter who
was a trauma code.
Um, we get back to the station.
Hey, you good, yeah, good, yeah, I'm good, but we're all in a
separate corner of the backparking lot calling home upset,
you know.
But, like I said, things aregetting better to where I had a
drowning.
And riding back to the station,the captain who leads the crew

(33:26):
and everybody's going to followtheir example was like hey, guys
, we're going home tonight.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
You know, and I thought to myself do I, am I
going home?
You know what?
I want my son to go home.
So, yeah, I'm going homebecause I'm setting that example
for him.
So it is changing, it isgetting better.
There is still a big stigmabehind it, but it's moving in
the right direction.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
You leading with vulnerability and saying I had a
call that fucked me up too.
When you're talking to somebody, that to me, I think, does so
much for either the younger guysor just other people who didn't
feel like they could say thatright, because you can share
your story with them and say Ifelt so much better when I was
able to process this.

(34:09):
It doesn't even have to be witha clinician yes, it can be
right but even just speakingwith other people speaking with
your wife, speaking with yourson, speaking with right and you
want to be able to.
Your son's a firefighter.
You want to be able to show himhow to process this in a
healthy way, as it's happening,instead of just like the marbles
in the jar, like you talk about, because you get to a place
where it's like I don't have anymore room to put this.

(34:30):
What does that even look like?
You really could have implodedyour entire life.
I mean, it was already badenough the way that it was.
But you know, you see, thesepeople, they don't have an
outlet to be able to speak aboutthat because everybody has to
be so strong.
So it does take the bravery ofbeing able to be vulnerable in
front and show emotion.

(34:53):
You know, it's something where Iwas raised in the same, around
the same time where it was.
You know, I was in my family onthe on the tomboy side of it.
That looked a lot easier to me.
I didn't want the emotional,messy stuff that my mom brought
to the table.
I was like, nah, I'm, I'm withthese guys, you know, um, and so
it was just no emotion, right,you just push it down, I'm fine,
I'm fine, everything's fine,everything's fine until it's not

(35:13):
fine, right, right, because Ihad a bunch of bullshit that
happened that I didn't deal with, and so I just you just keep
pushing it down, pushing it downuntil something gives, right,
um, and so being able to bevocal about that and share that
with people, so that they don'tget to that point, because you
don't want that for your son,you don't want that for your.
You know brothers and sistersthat are at the fire station.

(35:34):
You don't want that for them.
You don't want that.
You saw that.
You know, like you said,somebody's bright-eyed and
bushy-tailed, and a couple yearslater it's like holy shit.
What happened to this one?
You know, but it's over andover and over again.
This is not how we should betaking care of our folks.
But everyone's scared to beable to stand up and say the
hard things, right.
That's why it's for me it's soimportant to have these

(35:55):
conversations to say, you knowwhat.
It's okay, it does.
It takes guts and it takescourage to be able to say, man,
I'm fucked up right now.
Right, this is really, this isreally messing with me, and and
and being able to do that itlets somebody else either
listening that didn't speak up,or someone that could come back
also and say, yeah, this is,this is getting me too, you know

(36:15):
.
But that first person, right,that first person that speaks up
, that's brave shit.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, you know, and as a fireman, like we compare
right.
So, um, I'll hear somebody elsetalking at a conference and
they were involved in a shootingor they got shot or they pulled
nine dead bodies out.
You know I compare them likewell, okay, I can understand
that they have PTSD, but Ishouldn't have it for that one

(36:42):
call, you know.
But now that I'm open about itand learned what I've learned, I
had people come up to me.
I work for a small departmentman and we don't run calls like
you.
I shouldn't have it.
Yeah, you should have it, itdoesn't matter.
You know, my cup might only be20,000 marbles and yours might
be 40 or 10,000.
It doesn't matter.
And we don't know when.
We're going to get to that point, you know, and throughout our

(37:04):
careers that point is going tochange too.
For instance, I had a callwhere big kid in a car crunched
dead we couldn't even get himout.
Looked like my son.
You know, my son was 26 at thetime.
That's going to affect me waymore than going on a
three-year-old and that's sad tosay, but it's going to, you

(37:24):
know.
And now that we have ourgrandbaby, baby calls are going
to affect my son more than theydid two years ago.
So that's all your cups alwayschanging and you just don't know
when or where, but I guaranteeyou it's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Right, well, and I think, just even talking about
it like having that be somethingthat's encouraged back at the
station, of being able to talkwith each other about stuff,
instead of feeling like you gotto be the tough guy.
Nobody has to be the tough guy,right, we were raised that way
and I totally get that.
For a lot of us we were raisedthat way.
But we know, right, we knowbetter now.
We know what that looks like.
We understand.
Hey, just keep keep being toughand being strong and being

(38:01):
whatever.
What does that get you?

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Now nowhere.
And something that I've noticedand I can only strip from talk
about my own personal experienceon this, is the tough guy is
probably struggling more than Iam, because the things that I
know now the drinking, the drugs, the divorces, the anger, the
blowing up on other people aretypically the ones that are

(38:24):
talking shit about the guys thatstruggle, and they should be
sitting next to me talking aboutsame thing that I'm talking
about.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
Thousand percent, yeah well, you watch, and it's
like the emotional intelligencecomponent of stuff, right.
I always liken it to like thebig tough guy that's driving the
car right or driving the truckand he's pissed off in traffic
and he can't regulate hisemotions.
Well, where the fuck do youthink that came from?
Just out of curiosity, right?
Because men were not raised tobe able to handle their emotions
at all.

(38:51):
None of them.
They don't even know how toidentify them, you know.
So if you feel hurt, if youfeel sad, if you feel anything,
you turn it into anger and rageand then it's like oh, there's a
, there he is, that's the toughguy, you know.
Whatever, Nobody needs any moretough guys.
You know the tough guy doesn'teven want to be the tough guy.
Right, I've sat across the thison this couch with a bunch of

(39:11):
guys that don't want to be toughguys that realize, hey, this
sucks.
You know somebody that talksabout look at all of this shit
that I've been through.
You don't have to musclethrough it.
There's no award at the endthat says like oh, you, you, you
know, you made it through.
You wrecked your entire fuckingfamily because they don't know
which version of dad they'regoing to get coming home because
you didn't know how to handleyour emotions for stuff.

(39:33):
You and your profession happento deal with a lot more shit
than regular people do.
But just in in regular life,like people don't realize they
think they're holding ittogether.
What do you think that does forthe wife or the kids?
The dad that's holding it alltogether?
He's not holding it together,he's an asshole, right, like
you're a complete asshole.
No offense to you specificallybut but that's what that looks

(39:56):
like, you know, and so it's likethat's what you think is the
way to do.
That is, we're going to be atough guy and not talk about
stuff.
But then your wife doesn't knowwhat the fuck's happening in
your life and your kids areafraid of you and don't know
which version they're going toget of you.
I've watched it happen in myown household, right, I mean
growing up, and in my ownhousehold.
Because we don't deal with that.
We don't encourage men to dealwith their shit or to talk about

(40:17):
it.
So it's like if you looked atthat and you said these are your
options.
You can either have someonethat's going to speak about
their shit and deal with it asit comes up, or you're going to
have mystery dad who you're notsure what you're going to get.
That should say everything youneed to know.
You don't want to be thatperson to your kids, right?
You don't want to be saddled upnext to that guy.

(40:38):
We do it, we all do it, right?
That's why it's so important toraise our boys in a different
way now, no matter what age thatlooks like.
Right, like I look at the impactthat I've had on my son and on
my daughters.
Right, because I didn't showemotion until I got sober when I
was 40.
So I raised up to 20-year-oldswith don't be emotional.

(41:00):
That's a sign of weakness.
Right.
Now I'm paying for it becausenow I've got to come on this
show and show all thevulnerability.
I am fine to do that becausethat's part of my mission now,
but that's what it is foreverybody.
We're supposed to show emotion,we're supposed to show each
other, you know, and now, beingable to like heal in front of my

(41:20):
kids they have a front row seatto that.
Yes, they're having to undosome of the programming and the
messed up stuff that I handed tothem, but thank God you know, I
look at my.
I have an 18 year old son who isthe most emotionally
intelligent man I've ever met,right, and I love that.
I love that my husband allowsyou know, allows this and is
like coming along with causeI've been planting seeds for

(41:42):
years, you know.
It's like it actually feelspretty cool.
It's pretty good to be able tosay God, you know, get curious
about why did that make me feelthat way?
What am I going to do with that?
You know?
Yeah, tell me about.
I read in your questionnairethat you had a journey with
ketamine.
Are you?
Will you share some of thatwith me?
Because I think that's one ofthe things that I haven't tried.

(42:02):
I'm always the cannonballer, soI'm like, all right, let me try
all of these things.
You know, that is one I haven'tdone, but I've done all sorts
of other things.
It's.
I've talked to people that haveshared that.
That's very helpful for them itwas very helpful.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
It was one of the.
I will say it was the mostamazing thing I've ever done and
also the most horrifying thingat the same time, and a lot of
things that I'm going to sayabout it you're not going to
really understand.
But, um, so there's a localorganization, the arizona hunter
club phenomenal, phenomenalorganization.
They help pay for mental healthstuff for first responders.

(42:38):
Um.
So there was a ketamine clinicin the valley in scottsdale that
was doing a trial.
They wanted 30 first respondersto start it, um, and see some
of the results they get.
So I was part.
I was asked if I wanted to bepart of that 30 and I really
didn't want to.
You know, I still was kind ofin that mindset of firemen
police officers.

(42:59):
We live in worst case scenario.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
So the worst is always going to happen.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
I never did drugs.
I was not a big drinker, Ididn't really want to do it, but
I thought I might as well tryit because one all these people
that have helped me asked me totry it.
I might as well do it.
So I go in and um, my firstthree sessions were like
horrifying.
And these docs, like they haveit down to a science, they know

(43:25):
for the most part how things aregoing to be and they told me
sessions one and two are goingto be your past sessions, three
and four are going to be yourpresent and five and six are
going to be your past sessions.
Three and four are going to beyour present and five and six
are going to be your future.
So I remember going into myfirst one it could have been my
first or second session like Ihad like a slideshow of all
these calls that I have notthought about ever again.
You know I I remembered my veryfirst gunshot wound as a

(43:48):
probationary fireman.
I haven't thought of that callin, you know, 17 years at the
time, and but I remember seeingslideshow after slideshow of all
these horrific scenes and Iremember thinking to myself in
it like this is too much for you, gary.
This is just too much for youto see.
This is too much for anybody tosee, you know, and I remember

(44:08):
thinking like I don't need tosee this anymore, like I've been
there, done that, I don't needto see that kind of stuff
anymore.
And I remember getting angryduring my session.
You have 100% control overyourself, but I remember getting
angry, thinking like why did Iget?
How did I get here?
Why didn't I know that this wasa possibility of getting here?

(44:29):
You know, so I had those and Idon't even can't recall right
now the two middle ones, but itwas my fifth one going into, my
fifth one, the docs.
They're like, hey, do you wantto go to outer space?
And I'm like, oh crap, what areyou talking?
About Like am I going to gothere?

(44:50):
The room was called the outerspace room.
So I was like OK, that's whyyou're saying it Now.
This time the first four you'rein a recliner.
They start the IV.
They slowly push it.
You're listening to thesesounds in your ears, you're
blacked out.
You can't see anything but thefifth one.
Now you're in a bed and the bedvibrates to the sounds in your

(45:11):
ears and I remember the doctortelling me Gary, I think you're
going to like this one, but I'mstill.
I have no idea what to expect.
And during my fifth one, rightoff the bat, as soon as they
start pushing it, I think Ipassed away and I think I died,
you know.
And it's to the point where Iam crying Like I have never
cried before in my life becauseI was never going to see them

(45:32):
again, you know, and I felt 2million miles away.
And being 2 million miles awayis telling me you are too far
gone to return.
There's no returning in this.
So I went for about 30 minutesjust bawling my eyes out,
knowing that I was going toheaven, that I had passed away,

(45:52):
and they put this little buttonon your chest to where, if you
want them to come in, you canpress this button.
So at the same time that Ithink I'm dead and 2 million
miles away, I still know topress this button to have them
come in.
So they came in and they saiddid you press the button?
I said yeah, am I okay?
And they said yeah, you'reperfectly fine.
And I said okay.
And they said, can we restartthe infusion?

(46:13):
And I said yeah, go ahead.
Boom, I'm dead again, 2 millionmiles away, and I'm thinking
she's in the waiting room, she'sgoing to see Scottsdale fire
come in here and they're goingto start CPR any second Cause I
am dead.
It was the most amazingexperience I've ever felt in my
life because when it was saidand done, they docs did not come
in right away Like theytypically do.
They let me sit there and takeit in a little bit longer.

(46:34):
And they came in and I saidthat was fucking amazing.
And they said we told you youwere going to like this one and
they knew I was going to die.
And they said typically peopledie on their fifth one and the
people that fight the medicinewill not have that same
experience.
Well, part of ketamine with thisspecific clinic and I think
this is the most important partit comes with a ketamine coach.

(46:56):
They're not in the facilitywith you.
I'm in the room all by myself.
I talk to them the very nextday.
I write down everything that Ican remember and I told this
lady.
I said I died in it and I saidit was the most amazing thing
I've ever experienced.
I felt so at peace and she saidthat was the death of your ego

(47:19):
and without her I wouldn't haveknown that.
You know.
Um, I went in to ketamine as afucked up fireman and I came out
a husband, a father, a brother,a son.
I just so happened to betrained a fireman and it messed
with me.
That's totally fine.
Like I totally switched mypriorities in life to where, up
until that point, my prioritywas being a fireman and I need

(47:43):
to be ready to be, go back towork, and if that means my first
day off, I need to rest becausewe were up all night.
My second day off, I need torest because I go back to work
tomorrow.
They were second, but thatswitched it to where now they're
.
They're going to be first andthat's going to come when it
comes you know, no longer isthat my priority, um, but the

(48:05):
call that took me over, thatbroke the camel's back, never
came up, so I had dealt withthat with emdr.
Um the my sixth session.
I was hoping to go in and dieagain, because it was the most
amazing thing and I go in thereand it was about me and her.
So they were right one and twoare your past, three and four
are your present, five and sixare your future and, like number

(48:28):
six was just like thank god, Ihave her, you know.
So, yeah, it was the mostamazing thing.
And we talk about EMDR.
I view ketamine as EMDR 2.0.
Like, you go into EMDR knowing,hey, I have this call that I
need to deal with Ketamine.
You have no idea which oneyou're going to deal with, right
, you know.
So it's maybe your subconsciousthat you don't even know is

(48:50):
still there taking up room notfiled away properly.
Ketamine allowed all theseextra calls that I had no idea
to be filed away properly and,um, I told them there at the
clinic like you guys need totake this to disneyland.
It was the most amazing ride Ihave ever been on.
Yeah, you know, and I still, tothis day, don't do marijuana.

(49:12):
I don't do any drugs.
I would do ketamine in aheartbeat, only in that setting.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Never.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Right.
No, I understand exactly whatyou're talking about, but it is
like that's powerful shit, likeI went down to Costa Rica and
did ayahuasca and same thingdeath of my ego and I.
I'm a completely differentperson from one side of that to
the other in the best possibleway.
Right, I realized it's notabout me, right?
That's the whole egopersonality that we feed, that

(49:42):
in general, most people's arejust completely out of control,
right?
And so to be able to reallykind of put that into check and
to understand what you'reimportant you know what's
important to you.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, and you know, it's so like we had a workbook
we had to write down our notesand then having the ketamine
coach, like I said, without theketamine coach I would not have
known it was the death of my ego.
And you know, to this day shamestill kicks in every now and
then, you know.
But I have to remember what Iwrote down, what's important to
me, what's best for me and herand my kids and my family, not

(50:09):
what's best for anybody else.
You know, this is my priority.
So I still have to remindmyself that, you know, and
remind myself that when themental health stuff, that shame
starts kicking in a little bittoo, you know.
But I would say the overallgoing through all of that, the

(50:29):
ketamine, the counseling, hasmade me a better person today.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
You know the person that I want to be, you know so
ketamine I think saved ourmarriage, but I think it saved
his life I believe that.
I believe that one thing hedidn't mention is that he was
suicidal yeah and I rememberthat fifth treatment, because I

(50:56):
took him to every singletreatment.
We're sitting in the truck.
I would get him a coffee.
So he had his coffee and he'slike let's just sit here for a
minute.
So we're sitting, I'm lookingat him and I could see in his
eyes like there was light.
It wasn't as dark as it hadbeen for so long and I remember

(51:17):
just thinking like this was theone, this one saved him.
It was so crazy.
Um, and since the ketamine Ifeel like our relationship has
been a thousand times better.
Um, we've been able to talk toour kids about all of this and

(51:40):
kind of apologize for all thefucked up shit that we did to
them and you know all of thehurt that we caused them, even
though we weren't trying to dothat like just the unknown and
try to repair thoserelationships and now trying to

(52:01):
help them you know my son don'trepeat these things.
Go to, you know, do all thethings.
And my daughter struggles withanxiety really bad, and I feel
so responsible for that becauseit didn't start until we
separated and so she still hasthose symptoms.
We actually had her do ketamine.

(52:22):
I did ketamine because I havemy own trauma yeah sure, um, but
, and.
and I went into ketamine hopingI had that same experience that
Gary had, um, but the doctorsended up telling me you didn't
need the death of your ego.
Your family has always comefirst.
So it was very eye opening forme because I always felt.

(52:46):
Second, he was a firefighterbefore he was anything else.
He would give 110% at work andcome home and give shit Whatever
was left over, and I just kepttaking it and taking it because
I just had this idea of family.
It was me and my mom.
I didn't want my kids to have abroken family.

(53:08):
I'm going to work as hard as Ican to keep this marriage,
whatever that looks like.
I gave all of myself and Ialways felt it was never good
enough.
But once he did the ketamine,it's crazy how fast our marriage
switched, because he now viewedus as first and that's all I

(53:34):
ever prayed for.
Like I just want to be.
You know that I want to be thatperson.
I want to be number one.
I'm tired of being second.
I'm tired of feeling like shitall the time.
I'm tired of this marriage.
Do I want to fight for it?
Do I want to leave?
Yeah, like you know what's bestfor my kids.
This isn't good for my kids.
But what you know it was, itwas a lot of years of just

(53:58):
struggling with what, what do I?
What do I do?
Right, I don't want to hurt mykids, but I feel like we're
hurting them.
Staying together, um, but thatketamine, I could see it, I knew
.
I knew in my heart.
I, when I saw the light in hiseye, I, I was like this was it.
Yeah, things are going tochange.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Well, it's so powerful too.
You mentioned that you weretalking with your kids and
really showing your kids andapologizing to your kids, taking
accountability.
As we're raising kids and youguys were both young parents
we're just doing the best thatwe can, right?
And if we aren't able to dothat right, it just continues to

(54:42):
perpetuate that.
Our kids are our biggestteachers in life.
Right, if you'll let them be.
Our egos get in the way a lotof times because we're supposed
to be these big, tough peoplethat don't need help from our
children.
My kids are my biggest teachers.
But I also had the same thingwhere I really had to have a
come to Jesus, where I realizedmy family always got the scraps
of what was left over too, and Ithink what a shame and there's
nothing I can do about it.
So I don't have guilt and shameassociated with it, because to

(55:04):
me that's garbage that you know,those are such low vibe
emotions I'm not draggingthrough, but having that ability
and, you know, being able totake accountability to your
kiddos and show them that that'swhat we're supposed to do and
then put them first instead ofthey get the crumbs that are
left over when I'm done at theend of the day, right, I thought
I was doing the right thing by.

(55:26):
I'm going to go out and make abunch of money so that it you
know, anytime they wantsomething they can ask.
But I never paid full attention, right, I never was plugged
into them.
It was always what am I doingover here?
And then I would get home atthe end of the day and then give
my scraps to my husband and mykids and I look back at that and
it's just like god, I was outto lunch.
I was so fucking out to lunch,you know, and to be able to

(55:47):
realize it doesn't have to bethat way, right, look at all of
this good that's come from that.
Look at all that's good that'scome from that.
You know, you guys are able tobe on the same team and be each
other's champions, each other'scheerleaders, each other's talk
about all the shit that's.
You know.
Then you have a partner incrime instead of I'm just going
to carry all of this weight allby myself, because you look at
it and you look at, what didthat do to Wendy?

(56:09):
You didn't even realize whenyou were going through all of
this that she was internalizingall of that and thinking it was
her.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Right.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Right and beating herself up about not being
everything that you needed, orwhatever that looks like.
I look at my relationship withmy husband and I think it's
crazy because we talk about allthe things right.
It hasn't always been like that.
Thank God that it is now,because I don't want to do it
any other way.
I want to be able to my Ididn't have a hundred percent to

(56:40):
give today.
Or here are the things that Ifelt that I dealt with, or here
are the things that I'mprocessing, or dah, dah, dah,
dah, dah, whatever.
That's making me feel like youconnect with another human being
on a level that just blows mymind.
Right?
I'm I'm assuming you guys areexperienced the same thing,
because I don't want to havesomething that's going on that
I'm not able to share with mypartner.
I want to say all the things.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Right.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
What do you do, gary, to kind of keep the, the, keep
things in check, right, keep,keep your wellness and your
mental health at the forefront.
Like, what are the things thatyou do now that you have your
eyes open to all of the things?

Speaker 2 (57:11):
So I still see my counselor, okay, maybe once a
month, two times a month, itvaries.
I wish I would have done thatyears ago, you know.
Another thing is like I wastalking about the ketamine.
I remember that feeling and Iremember what I wrote down.
I've got to remind myself, notthat I have to remind myself
that they're important, but whenthat ego starts creeping back

(57:32):
in, okay, what's best for you,gary, what's best for your
family, I have to remind myselfof that.
Um, I have to know myboundaries too, you know.
So I enjoy talking aboutfirefighter mental health, but I
can't do it every day, you know, and I have to set that aside
too.
Um, so, yeah, I talk with her.

(57:56):
She's really big now into Firstresponder mental health, you
know, for the new departmentthat she's working for, pushing
a lot of stuff for them.
So, you know, I go to the gymnow, to where I worked out prior
to all this, but that is mytime to go in and shut my mind
off, you know.
And so, like I make that apriority for myself.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Um, we try to eat better, just everything you know
, so yeah yeah, it's, it'simportant because we do, we lose
sight of it.
You have to be vigilant aboutstaying on top of it, because I
can feel that the ego start tocreep into, like and and also
just not taking care of myselfin all of the ways If I start
feeling off.
I have a checklist of am Ijournaling?

(58:39):
Am I, you know, have I beendoing these things?
Whatever it is that kind ofmakes you, um, feel like
yourself, because it gets out ofcheck quickly.
So, um, thank you guys forcoming today and sharing, uh,
your story.
Uh, we're coming to the end ofour time, but powerful
conversation, powerfulconversation.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
So that's our time for today.
Please do all the things tosupport the pod rate review
share.
If you have suggestions orquestions, our email address is
ladies at letsgetnakedpodcastcom.
We will catch you next week.
That's a wrap.
I'd love to help you getvulnerable.

(59:27):
Let's get naked.