March 27, 2025 • 60 mins
Grief arrives like an uninvited guest, breaking through doors we thought were locked. This honest conversation explores the healing that becomes possible when we stop running from it.
Licensed therapist Laura Walton shares her journey of losing her father to suicide at 21 and her boyfriend to a drug overdose at 26. Left without support, she turned her pain into purpose, developing a deeper understanding of grief’s complexity.
Host Anne and her brother Tony reflect on their sister’s sudden death, revealing how grief can shape siblings in opposite ways. Anne numbed her pain with alcohol, while Tony pushed forward without fully facing it.
Laura challenges the idea that we should "get over" grief. Instead, she explains how embracing it can deepen our capacity for joy.
This podcast dives deep into real, raw topics—think vulnerability, triggers, and childhood trauma. But just so we're super clear: I’m not a licensed therapist, mental health professional, or anything close. I’m just a human sharing stories, lessons, and life hacks based on personal experience and a whole lot of curiosity.
So, while you might find some golden nuggets here, this is not therapy and should never replace professional mental health care. If you or someone you love is going through it, please—seriously—reach out to a licensed therapist or healthcare provider. You deserve the real deal.
Need Help Now?
Here are a few amazing resources:
· 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (U.S.): Call or text 988
· NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-NAMI (6264) or nami.org/help
· Therapy Directory: psychologytoday.com
· Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741
The opinions expressed on this show are ours and ours alone—no official organizations are responsible for what we say (or how much we overshare).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'd love to help you get vulnerable.
Let's get naked.
Hey everyone, I'm Anne.
Welcome to the let's Get Nakedpodcast, where we dive deep into
vulnerability.
In this space, we'll explorewhat triggers us, uncover the
patterns holding us back anddiscover how to take charge of
our own growth.
If you're ready to dig in, bevulnerable and face the tough
(00:29):
stuff, then buckle up.
It's time to get naked.
Today, we're going to betalking about grief.
Grief can start in so many wayswhen you lose someone who you
never thought you'd have to livewithout.
It might be the death of apartner, a parent, a sibling, a
friend who was your rock, or itcould be the end of a
(00:51):
relationship when someone youonce imagined a future with
becomes a stranger.
It's the feeling when yourealize your childhood home is
no longer yours, or when a jobyou loved fades away, taking
your sense of purpose with it.
These losses, big or small,expected or unexpected, spark
grief, and that grief spreadslike wildfire through your life
(01:14):
in ways you can't predict.
Grief is this massive,uninvited guest that crashes
through your life and no onegives it enough credit for just
how much it fucks witheverything.
It's not just some sad feelingthat you feel when you think
about a loss, it's this giant,shifting wave of emotion that
wrecks your mind, body andspirit in the most insidious
(01:35):
ways.
It doesn't have a clearbeginning or end.
It just starts there, oftenwithout warning, and you're left
grappling with the emotionalaftermath as it bleeds into
every part of your life.
It's not just the obvious stuff, the sadness or the moments of
deep despair.
No, grief is like a spider web,stretching into places you
(01:57):
didn't even know were connectedto your pain.
It shows up in the way youinteract with people, how you
sleep, how you eat or don't, andthe strange disconnection you
feel with the world around you.
You can be fine one moment, andthe next you're drowning in
this quiet, persistent ache,struggling to breathe under the
weight of it all.
And the most frustrating partwe're so bad at processing it.
(02:21):
Like society has this weird,unspoken timeline for grief.
Right, people expect you to beover it after a certain period,
but grief doesn't fit neatlyinto that.
You can't force it into a boxor set a deadline for it to
leave.
It ebbs and flows, sometimeslurking in the background and
other times hitting you like aton of bricks when you least
(02:42):
expect it.
And God help you if you try tonumb it or push it away.
That's like ignoring a woundand hoping it heals on its own.
Spoiler alert it doesn't.
When we leave grief unprocessed,it festers.
It takes root in places insideus that we didn't know were
susceptible.
You start carrying all thisunresolved emotional baggage
around, and it's not just thepast that hurts.
(03:04):
You bring that pain into thepresent, carrying all this
unresolved emotional baggagearound, and it's not just the
past that hurts.
You bring that pain into thepresent and it messes with your
ability to function, to love, tobe whole.
Grief has a way of coloring yourinteractions, making you more
irritable, more withdrawn andless capable of really being in
the world.
You might stop trusting people,stop caring about things you
(03:29):
once loved and end up living ina fog of detached, suppressed
emotions.
It can ruin your ability tofind peace or joy, leaving you
stuck in a cycle of resentmentor fear.
And when we try to rush throughgrief or sweep it under the rug
, we miss the chance to actuallylearn from it.
Because grief, as ugly andpainful as it is, is a teacher.
It shows you the depths of yourown vulnerability, your ability
to love and be loved, yourstrength in surviving.
(03:50):
If you let it, it can be anagent of change, but that
requires giving it the space andrespect it deserves, something
we're not always great at.
We need to stop treating grieflike it's something to get over
or move past as quickly aspossible and start embracing it
for what it is a multi-layeredtransformative force that takes
time, care and attention toprocess.
(04:11):
If you leave it unprocessed,that's a slow burn.
You'll feel it in every part ofyour life in ways you never
expected.
It'll ruin your mental health,your relationship, your sense of
self and, before you know it,you're a version of yourself
that doesn't even resemble whoyou once were.
The damage is real.
It's not just sadness.
(04:31):
It's the unraveling of thethreads that hold your whole
damn existence together.
Grief deserves to be felt, tobe acknowledged, to be processed
fully.
Otherwise it'll stick around,in ways you can't even imagine,
long after the moment of losshas passed.
Today, we're stripping it alloff with Laura Walton.
(04:52):
Laura is a licensed marriage,family therapist, grief coach,
after-loss professional, yogainstructor and author.
You can find Laura, includingonline courses that she offers
to help work through grief andtrauma, at griefonpurposecom.
Welcome to the show, laura.
Hi, hi, thanks for having me.
(05:13):
Also joining us today is myyoungest brother, keith, who I
also call Tony, as most of youknow, tony is joining us to be
able to share and discuss ourfamily's journey with us, as it
surrounds the grief that theloss of our sister a few years
ago brought to our front door.
So welcome to you as well.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Thank you, it's wonderful to be back again, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
For everyone listening.
This is going to be a difficultepisode for all of us, actually
, and so it is what it is.
That's real life.
Grief is, like I always say,the granddaddy of emotions.
So, laura, I would love tostart with you and just kind of
hear about your journey and whatgot you to do what you do for a
(05:59):
living which I find to befascinating and incredible work
that I think is so incrediblyimportant.
So, if you don't mind, justkind of sharing with us your
journey for how you got to here,yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, first I just want to say, over the last I
don't know 15 years or so, atleast professionally speaking,
grief has become just what I do,or so, at least professionally
speaking, grief has become justwhat I do.
And you know, when you dosomething every day, it just
becomes to some degree normal.
And so hearing what you wrote,that was that was good and that,
(06:35):
that that kind of brought meback to the reality of it, of
grief, and like why I'm evenhere and what I do, why I even
do what I do, why it's important.
So thank you for that,Absolutely.
It was hard to read, yeah, yeah, but I am a licensed therapist,
a grief coach.
(06:56):
I I got into this.
Well, I got into this workbecause of my life experiences.
I never I wasn't one of thosekids who was like I'm going to
be a doctor when I grow up orI'm going to be a lawyer,
whatever.
I didn't have a thing I wasgoing to be when I grew up.
And then I found myself in my20s being faced with death right
(07:21):
in the right smack there infront of you.
My dad committed suicide when Iwas 21.
And when I was 26, the guy whohad been my on again, off again,
boyfriend.
But more than that, my bestfriend in the whole world died
(07:42):
of a drug overdose.
Friend in the whole world diedof a drug overdose.
So both of those situations Iwas completely unprepared for
and found myself very quickly inthe aftermath, navigating a
world that felt like it wasunprepared for me, unprepared
for what I was going through.
With those situations I couldn'tfind great support out there.
(08:06):
I couldn't find resources Icouldn't find and me being in my
20s contributed to this.
But I couldn't find anybodyelse who was experiencing this
and given the fact that we willall die at some point, that even
then that struck me as crazy.
Yeah, why is there nothing outhere?
(08:26):
So it took me some time.
But, um, that was whatmotivated me to go to grad
school, became a therapist, um,I knew I was going to be working
with grief from the beginning,um, and so, you know, eventually
was able to start my ownpractice and work with grief.
You know, eventually was ableto start my own practice and
work with grief.
And then, in the more recentyears, um, I feel like I'm kind
(08:48):
of growing beyond the box oftherapy, um, trying to broaden
my reach and broaden more whatI'm able to do, and so that's
evolving more into the coachingand I'm writing a book, um, and
just this whole evolution of mywork with grief.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I think it's incredible I really do, I think
dedicating your work and yourpassion to something that's so
incredibly important that Ithink so many people don't talk
about.
I have friends and family and Ithink it's just so, almost even
taboo which is crazy to mebecause we're in 2025, and I
think we still don't talk about.
(09:29):
I'm really struggling with this.
Whatever it is right.
Obviously we talk about theloss of family members and
parents and siblings and stuff.
We still don't.
I think people don't know whatto say, and so they get twisted
up in that.
I think people don't know whatto say and so they get twisted
(09:49):
up in that.
It's so important, I think, tokind of normalize the
conversation around that so thatwe can also support, because I
don't know how you processed thegrief that you had.
Maybe you can share that, butfor me, I just about melted my
entire life down because Ididn't know how to process
regular emotions.
And then you hit me upside thehead with what I will call the
granddaddy of emotions and itweaseled its way into every
(10:11):
aspect of my life and I justabout burned my entire life down
because I just didn't know howto handle it.
You know, and so when you talkabout being 21 and losing your
father which in a horrible wayright, it isn't like it's
obviously tragic enough forsomebody to have a heart attack
or something, but in such atragic way.
You know how, what, where didyou find support, or you know,
or what did that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Well with with my dad's death.
It was different than than myboyfriend's death later.
With my dad's death, I don'tthink I think I dealt with it by
avoiding it.
I at the time was actuallydating the guy who ended up
dying later, but we were longdistance relationship and so I
(10:52):
ended up leaving Phoenix andgoing to live where he was
living and it felt like justkind of this like I'm done with
Arizona, I'm done with my family, I'm done, you know, like I'm
done with Arizona, I'm done withmy family, I'm done with you
know, like I'm done with all ofthis and I'm just going to go
run away from it.
Um, and so that's, that wasokay for, yeah, until it wasn't.
(11:18):
That was okay for, uh, fiveyears, um, but then the next
death happened and that blew myworld apart.
My relationship with theboyfriend who died was better
than my relationship with my dad, and so that to me at the time
felt like a bigger loss and aharder loss.
But I think it was alsocompounded with what I hadn't
(11:43):
faced with my dad.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Right, the unprocessed grief.
That was kind of like followingaround behind you like a
wrecking ball, yeah, which Ifeel like that does when you
don't process it yeah, yes, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So then, yeah, just not knowing how to process all
of this when it came um,smashing down on me was was I
initially the part that I waslike what the fuck?
Speaker 3 (12:08):
There's no guidebook for this.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Right, there's nobody to help you with this that I
could find.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Well, in 20s it's hard enough to deal with regular
life in your 20s, right, you'retrying to figure out who you
are, or just some basic stuff.
But, on top of that, you'retrying to deal with loss at such
a big level for both of those,yeah yeah, and some of what I
found like almost made it worse.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Like I, I found support groups, but they were
for 80 year olds who's um, youknow, and there's.
So there were so manycomplexities I found, because I
was looking for support aroundlosing a partner, but we weren't
married, we were young, youknow.
So I found these support.
I was looking for supportaround losing a partner, but we
weren't married, we were young,you know.
So I found these support groupswhere, as I said, 80-year-olds'
husbands or wives had died, butit just felt like, but that's
(12:54):
not me, and so that made me feelthat much more alone.
Yeah, like I couldn't findanybody who was remotely similar
to what I was experiencing.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Do you feel like you know part of what I, what I said
at the beginning about gettingthrough it, or you know kind of
society's OK, get over it, orthere's a certain expiration
date on when your grief shouldbe processed.
What are your thoughts on that?
What is your kind of yourtraining on that?
Or do you get to a point whereit's I've processed that all the
(13:30):
way through, or is that justsomething then that you always
will deal with in some capacity?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, well, everybody seems to have their own idea of
some magic number right.
Like, but this time by when weshould be done grieving, um, or
we should be over it, or it'stime to move on, um, you know,
six months a year, two years,five years, whatever, like
there's there is no right orwrong answer, um, but we get
(14:01):
these messages from the peoplein our lives, or just from
society in general, that thereis a timeline and if we're not
feeling better, or whatever thatmeans, by that timeline, then
there's something wrong with usor we're doing it wrong.
So then that can create a wholeother slew of problems, because
(14:22):
not only are you grieving andfeeling all of that, but then
you're you're, you're doing itwrong.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Right, which feels terrible in and of itself, right
Like yeah, okay, that's, that'sfascinating.
Where do you feel, like howlong had it been in that process
for you, for both of thoselosses, that you felt like you
were able to get some tractionon any of the things, any of the
tools or direction, that youwere able to find that support
(14:48):
that was meaningful andsomething that actually tracked
in with what you wereexperiencing?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah.
So the most meaningful thingthat I felt at the time and now,
reflecting back on all thethings I've done over the years,
I still find it to be true ismy yoga practice.
So I had already beenpracticing.
(15:15):
I guess I started practicingyoga after my dad's death but
before my boyfriend's death, soI already had a little bit of
experience with that.
But there was a yoga teachertraining that I did in 2008.
My boyfriend had died in 2007.
So I think it started almost ayear after.
(15:36):
That was the thing that waslife changing and transformative
.
But it wasn't just about.
When I say yoga, yoga, peopleoften think of the physical
poses and the fitness.
Yeah, the fitness part, that'swhat we generally understand
yoga to be um, in our society atleast.
Uh, so that's a part of it, butit's only one small part of it,
(15:58):
and the training that I did andthe study that I kind of
unknowingly threw myself intowas the study of the other limbs
of yoga and just how those,what those are, getting a better
understanding of what those areand because of where I was in
my life, I applied those to mygrief.
But if I had to summarize it inone sentence, which is next to
(16:22):
impossible to do, but it's thelesson of learning how to relax
with what is learning how to bewith something that's really
uncomfortable really leaninginto that discomfort yes, and so
through that yoga teachertraining that's.
That was probably my number onebig takeaway and that directly
(16:44):
applied to grief.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that and I think that
that's that speaks volumes to mewhen you say that because I
relay that to I had never lostanybody until my sister passed
away, and so, being able to runfrom it as I did for a couple of
years after she passed becauseI didn't want to lean into the
discomfort, I didn't want to sitwith it you know.
and so the the yoga that youtalk about and the being
(17:07):
comfortable just sitting withgrief, I don't think there's
anything probably more painfulthan sitting with grief and I
think that that's why we numband we try to hide from it and
we all of the things.
But when you realize that itliterally is a wrecking ball
that you're pulling aroundbehind your life, hurting other
people, not being, you know,living your best life, having
(17:31):
that spider into all of thedifferent areas of yours kind of
makes it, once you have thatawareness, makes it way more
important for you to do thatwork.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, yeah, because we're not taught to do that.
We're not taught how to sitwith something uncomfortable,
period, right, whatever.
Yeah, cause we're not taught todo that.
We're not taught, we're nottaught how to sit with something
uncomfortable, period Whateverthat is.
It's so easy just to distractwith 10,000 things in any given
moment.
So, yeah, when it comes togrief, we definitely don't know
and aren't prepared for how tobe with that, but that is the
(18:02):
one I don't know.
I'll use the word key.
That is the one key to grief,to being able to, because grief
is always gonna be a part ofyour life and your story once
you experience it.
So in being able to have thatbe true, we need to be able to
sit with it.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I find it fascinating that so many of us have no idea
how to deal with grief, becauseit isn't just the loss of
someone, it's the loss ofmarriage, it's the loss of
something that maybe you wereworking towards that got pulled
out from underneath you forwhatever reason in life.
I mean, grief is such a big,broad emotion.
How could we be so terrible asa society at processing it?
(18:47):
Do you find that that's, haveyou found that that's more of a
our society like America kind ofthing?
Are there other cultures inother countries that they're
better at doing that?
Or is that, or maybe that's noteven something that you have
any idea about?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I don't have a ton of experience in that as far as
other cultures, maybe avoidanceof it, I do know that some
cultures every culture probablyhas a different, very general
and stereotypical way that theyunderstand death and view death.
That applies to some people butnot all.
(19:22):
But you know, in some of thework I've done I've seen um
different beliefs where we don'ttalk about the dead because, um
, they believe that the beliefthere is that that keeps the
them still in this physicalworld when they're trying to
travel beyond, to the next realmor um world or whatever that
(19:42):
belief is, but we keep themtrapped when we talk about them.
Interesting, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I feel like I have a better an understanding that you
would want to talk about.
Right.
For me, it's like celebratingmy sister on her birthday, or
speaking about her and reallycelebrating that and the impact
that she had in this world,instead of just the opposite.
So it's fascinating to me thatyou say that.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Well, it's interesting and I'm not
certainly not going to say anyparticular culture is right or
wrong, but it does make mecurious, like how does that
impact your grief process?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Absolutely Right, because if you are trying to let
them go and not remember themand have a still a connection
we've talked previously aboutkind of having a connection with
your person after they'vepassed and how important that is
for some of us I think somepeople definitely don't want
anything to do with that.
We're going to push that downand push that away, which was
(20:36):
definitely what I subscribed to.
Initially.
It was okay, well, she's nothere and so how do I just move
on from that?
But as I've gone throughprocessing my grief, it's more
how do you celebrate her, how doyou celebrate her life?
How do you stay connected?
When are the times that you dofeel connected to that person,
(20:56):
even though they're not herewith us anymore?
So you would think for me, likeno, we want to remember our
people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did you have um?
Was your?
Was your family?
Do you have siblings?
How was what did that look likewhen your dad committed suicide
and was like what did thatwhole support?
Or was that everyone go yourown direction and not really
talk about it much?
(21:17):
Or what did that look?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
like Well, I do have siblings, I'm the oldest, I have
a younger sister and a youngerbrother and I wouldn't say we've
ever been the closest family.
And I think that remained truein grief, in that it was sort of
kind of figure it out on yourown.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Remain to themselves, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, I was, I'm the oldest and so and I wasn't even
in actually in the state when ithappened.
And so I, you know, came backto Arizona soon after, but my
sister was actually there forwhat happened and witnessed and
(22:02):
witnessed he.
Basically he called my sisterand told her that he was going
to kill himself.
And quick backstory he had, mydad, struggled with mental
health and this topic of suicidewas not a new topic for us.
He had talked about itthroughout my childhood.
(22:23):
So for him to say I'm going tokill myself wasn't something we
hadn't heard before, but it'sobviously still something you
jump at.
And he called my sister, whowas a week away from turning 18
at the time, and told her that.
And she went over to his houseand he, he called the, he also
(22:44):
called the police and told themhe was going to kill himself.
And they showed up and he had agun and he pointed it at them
and they told him to drop it andhe didn't, so they shot him and
my sister was there andwitnessed the whole thing.
So with that comes a lot, a lotof a lot of layers of emotion
(23:10):
and beliefs and, um, you know,how do you make sense of that.
Um so, you know, I was as thebig sister, you know like at 21
right, I mean yes, no, yeah Imean you were, but that's crazy
because you're still a child at21, trying to deal with these
huge emotions yeah, but as thethe big, the older sister who in
(23:33):
some ways, I think on onreflection of my childhood, had
felt kind of a sense ofresponsibility for the younger
ones, like that, you know, thatcarries some weight to it, and
my brother was 14 at the time,so he's a kid too.
But in the I mean, as I said, Idealt with it by moving out of
(23:56):
state, so we definitely weren't,you know, like bonding over
that or connecting over theexperience.
It felt like it's like figureit out on your own yeah, yeah
god, that's so heavy.
I know I can feel it.
It's crazy because the weightin here is a lot.
Yeah, it is really heavy inhere and I've told this story a
(24:18):
lot of times before.
You know, and it's not new, butit's still.
This is the grief like this is.
It's still true, it's stillreal, it still holds all of that
emotion, even now.
I can't do math, but 20 over 20years ago right, right, and
it's still same.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
So I would love to to use this as an opportunity to
kind of segue into talking alittle bit about.
You know our experience andI'll share that and maybe you
can offer some insight or askquestions or help along our
journey too, because obviously20 years later and it still not
only brings emotion to you butto others that hear that story,
(25:01):
because you do hear people thatstruggle with suicidal thoughts
and I've dealt with that in ourfamily, not where someone
actually committed suicide, butjust the thoughts of that and
saying I'm going to do this andhow scary that is.
And you get to where it's notlike crying wolf, but crying
(25:21):
wolf a little bit, because it'ssuch an emotional roller coaster
of okay I'm okay, I'm okay, andnow I'm not okay, now I'm not
okay, and everyone's just tryingto do their own lives as well.
So, regardless of whether it'sa family member or not, you
still get kind of roped intothis whole roller coaster of a
whole life with someone and I'mso sympathetic to that because
(25:41):
it's just torture, it's puretorture.
So sympathetic to that becauseit's just it's torture, it's
pure torture.
So a little bit of a history onthe grief that got slammed in
our front door Tony, my sister,who, in our birth order oldest
sister, next sister, the onethat passed is the second in the
(26:02):
birth order, then me, then Ihave a younger brother and then
Tony is the baby.
Ten years ago-ish, our sisterwas pregnant with her fourth
child and she was living in anunconventional situation where
(26:25):
they were in a community in walltents kind of thing, and she
decided that she was going to doa home birth with not any
professionals.
Like she was 39 years old,you're already high risk.
You don't have any businessdoing that.
But she was an hour away fromthe closest hospital and went
(26:48):
into labor and the midwives intraining were not able to
provide assistance that sheneeded and she died giving birth
to her fourth child.
And Tony and I were talking theother day about what that phone
call felt like and where wewere and trying to get to her,
(27:09):
because at the moment of thatphone call they didn't know if
she was going to make it, butshe wasn't dead yet.
They were driving her to theclosest hospital and then
airlifting her to Nashville andby the time we got on the ground
in Nashville our other brotherpicked us up and said that she
(27:30):
wasn't going to make it.
She was at that point in a coma, but they were just keeping her
alive long enough so that wecould come say goodbye to her.
I feel like, for those that knowme, they realize that that
imploded my entire life, but notin a way that you maybe even
(27:51):
realize from the outside.
I was always a big drinker,anyways, and I remember coming
back from that all happening anddoing the funerals and doing
the service in Colorado, and Iremember sitting at my desk and
there was just nothing in myhead, it was just static and I
didn't know what to do.
And again, I, my history withemotions is fuck them, you don't
(28:13):
need them, you don't even wantto waste.
Those are messy, you know.
And so that was literally my,my entire relationship with
emotions.
Up until that point I was I was37 years old at that point
because she was 39, so, yeah, Iguess it was 10 years, um, and I
(28:33):
spent the next uh, two yearsjust destroying my life with
alcohol and not even reallyrealizing I was doing that,
because I didn't realize whatgrief was.
I was just numbing, I wasnumbing, numbing, numbing, and
that was just so that I didn'thave to feel it and then I got
(28:53):
sober and I realized, oh, that'sa huge part of it.
Obviously I had other thingsthat were in my past, but the
grief component of that I can'teven put words to how that feels
and I know that you know, indealing with your own grief and
also just helping other peopleprocess their own.
(29:14):
But to me on a scale of 1 to 10,that's like a 40 of painful to
sit in grief to.
Really there's no answers.
There's no like woulda couldashoulda.
Why did this happen?
Like there's no answers.
There's no like woulda couldashoulda.
Why did this happen?
Like there's no, there's norhyme or reason to why you lost
your dad at 21, why you lost themost important person in your
life at 26 I mean, you're a babyat 26, right, and even though I
(29:37):
was 37 and my sister was 39,it's like there's no, there's no
rhyme or reason.
She's here one day, gone thenext.
I have spent a lot of time overthe last 10 years really kind of
processing that.
I feel like I've gotten betterat it.
You know the first couple ofyears of drinking and whatnot
(29:59):
and then just really doingtherapy and lots of different
healing modalities to workthrough that.
I still think there's a pilethere, you know, I think you
start with like here's this pileof grief maybe, and then you
know not that it's ever gone,gone, but I think there's
definitely, when you're ready totackle that, a lot more to
tackle.
Tony, maybe you can share whereyou have been with the grief
(30:23):
process for that, or you knowwhat that looked like for you,
or your understanding of grieffrom you know, maybe a person
who didn't deal with that before, just Laura for your
information and our listeners.
Uh, tony, also subscribed tothe same.
Who needs emotions?
Fuck them.
My other brother, same right.
(30:44):
We all just joked around for somany years that we were dead
inside.
We were happy to be that way,yeah, even before she passed.
So then when you have somethinglike this that happens, it just
it feels like someone brought aton of cement and just poured
it on top of you and it's like Idon't even know.
I don't know how to deal withjoy and peace, and you know
happiness and sadness and theregular ones.
(31:05):
Now here's grief, you know.
So, tony, what, what did thatlook like for you?
Speaker 3 (31:10):
um, it looked like processing anything else that
was undesirable for me.
Um, it meant it was.
I see kind of a pattern withdealing with things like that,
because our mother lost both ofher sisters at an early age too,
(31:32):
and I was around for both oftheir deaths for some reason.
That just seems to be a weirdthing.
And then one of our unclespassed away and we've had
multiple outside family memberspass away that we weren't
necessarily super close with andI feel like and I have never
really delved into it, but Ifeel like it was just a okay,
(31:53):
this event happened.
Now we're moving on to the next, and that is kind of what
happened with Marine.
It was a little more drawn outbecause we got that phone call,
we had to scramble, we got overthere, we had a funeral, then we
went to Colorado, we had afuneral and it was a lot of
moving around and I wasn't witheverybody when, like over Easter
, I remember that year,everybody was up in Colorado but
(32:14):
for some reason I was down hereby myself.
And I remember distinctly oneof the things that I thought was
I'm so relieved that she's nothere anymore.
For her own sake, of course, weall want her here.
But, given her situation, giventhat she thought she had no
other options and no otherchoices, I think I found some
(32:39):
solace in that, even though itwasn't the answer that I wanted
and it wasn't what any of uswanted, even though it wasn't
the answer that I wanted and itwasn't what any of us wanted.
I don't know if that's justlike a really messed up way to
look at things, of like, yeah,there's, she's not dealing with
all that, she's not having tosacrifice everything about who
she is and what she is becauseshe doesn't feel like she has
(33:00):
any other way out.
And also, I had I happened tobe in Colorado when they were up
there at the month prior, so itwas very short.
Like I saw her and then the nexttime I saw her she was no
longer.
And that is a lasting memoryfor me, because and I thankfully
have that picture of her ridingthe horse, which is always
(33:22):
where she wanted to be that'sall she wanted to do.
And there was another componentof that for me that was like
I'm so glad I got to see her atthat time, because that my
relationship with her wasprobably just as weird as it was
with everybody else, like wetalked, we didn't really
necessarily have any drama orproblems or anything, but it was
(33:44):
a struggle.
She had things going on, I hadthings going on, we were trying
to do all that so, but she hadbeen removed out of my life,
outside of phone calls andthings and the rare visit for so
many years and so long that italso was a okay, well, she's
just no longer here.
And it wasn't.
It didn't never like click inmy brain of like the gravity and
(34:08):
this just the gravity of thewhole situation.
It was okay, well, this allhappened.
Okay, well, I have to preparefor my trip to Europe, so I'm
going to go to Europe and then,oh well, I get back from Europe
and now I have to have surgery.
So I'm just going to go intosurgery and then, okay, I have
four months off and then I'mgoing to go into another surgery
and then we're going to go toColorado and then we're going to
go do this and then all ofthese things.
(34:29):
Now that I'm thinking about it,I've never thought about it
before, maybe not necessarilythings that I chose to numb with
, but they were helping me numb,because I'm really good at
completely pushing everythingback, completely ignoring things
and just going on with my daybecause I have something else to
do.
The same thing and I don't everwant to compare the death of an
(34:50):
animal to a death of a relativebut I did the same thing when I
had to put my dog down.
I was devastated in the momentwe put her down.
I left and then I just okay,well, I had to go get ready for
my trip.
I have to sell my house and Ihad to go get ready for this
other trip.
And then it was just like, okay, well, that event happened in
that three-hour window and thenI never got really sad about it
again.
So for me it was the exactopposite of what you experienced
(35:16):
.
You didn't know how to handleit.
Well, I didn't know how tohandle it either.
I just blocked it away.
That's how I handled it andnever processed it and and I've
spoken about it in therapy notanything that I've really delved
into and like we spoke about itprobably for an hour session,
(35:36):
and one of the things that shetold me, cause I felt again
going back to what is ourtimeline, for how long we're
supposed to feel sad, how, whendo we get over that?
Do we ever get over that?
I was like I feel like I kindof got over that really fast and
that doesn't feel right.
And I remember her distinctlybecause I also look at our, our
(35:58):
mother, who the loss of a childis devastating, but it took her
many years to be able to get toa point where she was okay
talking about marine and I askedher about that.
I'm like I feel like that exact, I had this blip in my life.
It was really sad and it wastragic.
We're missing a piece of ourfamily, but then I just moved
(36:20):
right on.
And then the opposite side ofthat is, for years, other people
are processing it and holdingonto it and dealing with it.
And I don't remember exactlywhat she said to me, but it was
something along the lines of wedo that to ourselves.
So for me it was like, okay,well, I'm not, maybe I didn't
process it enough and maybe Ididn't give it the the amount of
(36:43):
time that it needed or theamount of effort or work that it
needed to process that through.
But then I felt a little bitrelieved because I didn't want
to keep myself in that.
So now when I talk about it,people are devastated.
I tell them the story and Italk about it just like I'm
talking right now, very likenonchalant, like yeah, it
(37:04):
happened in my life.
And other people are like, oh,my God, that's such a big deal.
I'm so sad for you.
I mean, have I had people starttearing up on me?
Speaker 1 (37:12):
That's a big deal.
It's a terrible situation.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
And for me I'm just like oh yeah, it just happened.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
So so, laura, I would .
I would ask this question justbased on listening to him talk,
not that I'm trying to like, hey, let's get naked, come on,
we're going to therapize you.
You're not moving anywhere.
Laura, get him, that's kind ofeveryone at home listening.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
That's what this feels like.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
That's not what this was.
No-transcript, I wasn't reallyprocessing it.
(37:56):
I was just not processing it inthe same way that you running
and just piling stuff on top of.
But then what does that looklike, laura, as far as just
unresolved or unprocessed griefBecause part of what I said at
the beginning, where it justkind of like seeps into your
entire life if you don't dealwith that, what does that look?
Speaker 2 (38:15):
like.
It can look like a lot ofdifferent things, but I think,
whether it's, you know, a yearfrom then, or whether it's 30
years from then, and grief keepsknocking, yeah, and it gets
louder and louder and louder,until eventually something
breaks and it sounds like foryou the drinking.
(38:36):
Somehow there came a point whenyou decided you had to stop
that.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I was literally destroying my entire life with
alcohol just because I wasliterally hiding from the knock.
I didn't want to answer thedoor, and so it was just just
put more alcohol on it.
It doesn't matter what time ofday you're drinking, or how much
you're drinking, or the factthat you're not paying attention
to any of your family, the factthat you're doing things that
are out of character for who youare, it doesn't matter.
We're just going to keep goingdown that road until I just
(39:01):
literally could not do thatanymore.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, so there comes a point when you can't do it
anymore, when you can't pretendyou're not hearing the knock,
and that point obviously looksdifferent for everybody and that
point comes at different timesfor people.
But the grief in my experiencewith myself and others it
demands to be seen and it willpatiently or not so patiently
(39:32):
wait for a while, but sooner orlater it's going to show up in
some way.
How do you?
Speaker 1 (39:39):
invite it to the table with.
You Say, for example, justbecause you're sitting here and
we're picking on you.
Tony Say, for example he says Ifeel like I've never dealt with
that.
I feel like I ran and ran andran.
I had one therapy session.
I feel like I'm good.
Put it back up on the shelf,whatever.
There's a lot that goes intowhat you just said.
I don't know if you realizethat or not.
With I felt relieved becauseshe wasn't here anymore.
(40:00):
I felt the exact same way thatmade me suffering anymore For
someone that went on for alifelong.
My sister was, our sister waswith someone who was I don't
even know how do you describeUndesirable, undesirable.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
By most of the population.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
I mean just heinous.
Just a man that was just hadher doing things that we don't
think were her choice, but againshe was stuck and and then I
had all of these other feelingsof not being able to save her.
You know, because when she wasearly on with him, I'm like,
come live with me, I'll takecare of finances.
I just I literally was come on,I, I will, I will save you, and
(40:40):
then that obviously is my youknow shit to deal with as well,
with it's not your job to saveother people and like all of the
things.
But the feeling of relief, thefeeling of any of the feelings
that you feel, that's obviouslymore than just a one-hour
therapy session, and I think youknow that.
I mean, this isn't like asurprise where we're surprising
Tony with like hey, we're goingto give you some free therapy to
(41:00):
deal with this.
But if grief does keep knockingand does keep knocking, if
you're at a point where yourealize, okay, okay, I have this
grief, not just for you, justfor the listeners how do you
invite that to the table and say, okay, I'm ready to start
having a relationship with you,because I do think that grief is
that big of a deal.
You know where you do need tosay okay, how am I going to
(41:23):
process this, but how do you,how would you suggest to people
to be able to start that or tobe able to kind of advance their
journey?
Speaker 2 (41:29):
as it relates to that , yeah, I think part of it is
being really intentional andpurposeful with it.
Hence the grief on purpose name.
But because, as, as Tony, youwere saying, like you can, it's
so easy You're not the only oneby any means Like we've all.
(41:51):
It's so easy to be, to get busywith our lives and be like but
I have, I already have thisthing planned and I have to do
this, and then I have to do likethat's how we live a lot of the
time, and so, even if we dowant to feel our grief in that,
it's easy to not, um.
So I think, just being really,I think it can be very important
to be intentional andpurposeful about it and create
(42:15):
space for that grief to be.
That can look like a lot ofdifferent things, but maybe most
simply, just when we're feelingready to, or interested in, or
curious about our grief, just togive ourselves a couple minutes
(42:37):
just to sit with that questionof where is my grief, how is my
grief, what is my grief, andstart to get curious about it.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
I love that.
I love that and start to getcurious about it.
I love that.
I love that.
It's so funny to me because thework that I do, not only with
this podcast but with otherthings, it's all the gross stuff
, it's all the hard stuff, it'sall the shit that it's like no,
thank you.
And I totally get that.
But I will say that as I'vegone in life and in the last
(43:06):
eight years for me, I am a muchbetter person, I am a much
happier person, I am a much allthe things, because I've been
willing to get curious and say,okay, what does grief look like
in my life?
For not only the loss of peoplethat were close to me, but
other things as well.
Because I think grief is likerides in its own satchel and you
(43:28):
know, you just keep addingstuff to it and, like I said, I
think you do pull it behind youlike a wrecking ball.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yeah, and there really is beauty in grief, Like
if you haven't in my experience,if you haven't experienced the
depths of all the emotion that'sentailed in grief, then it's
really hard to experience theother side of that coin.
(43:55):
If you haven't been in thedeepest, hardest, heaviest,
darkest place, then you can'texperience the lightest, highest
, most joyful place.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, and I agree with that a thousand percent,
because I think when you numb,when you numb and you kind of
leave your emotions at like aflat line because you're not
willing to deal with the thingsthat are nasty and gross and low
and all of that, you don't getthe highs either.
Yeah, and the highs to me areoutstanding.
(44:29):
Yeah mean you can't even putwords to how great you can
actually feel.
So I was talking to somebodyrecently about what that looked
like me getting sober and doingall of this work and kind of
being willing to use my emotionsas a tool.
I felt like I was good beforeand I look back and it's like
maybe I was a four out of ascale of one to 10.
That's literally how big of adeal I feel like it is now that
(44:51):
I'm willing to feel the emotionsand feel them as they come up,
and it's not at convenient timesalways.
You know I'm coming into todaywith I'm already raw from other
things and that's just theuniverse's way of like go ahead
and cry on your own podcast,it's going to be fine, but you
know the universe will just tellyou when it's time to be able
to do that and the knock andhowever loud that gets, and when
(45:14):
you're ready to sit down andsay, okay, come out to play,
I'll sit with you, no matter howbad that hurts, because that's
a small percentage of time asyou process that to really open
your life up to get the highesthighs.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, yeah.
And there you know, as, as allthe years pass by, for me, um,
as we've already said multipletimes today, there's the
expectation that I'm ever goingto be done with grief or that
it's ever going to be over.
Just is not true.
This is going to be a part ofmy life forever.
But and also I've been noticingnow that some more time has
(45:56):
passed, like the way that mygrief has shifted and the way
that my relationships with thepeople who I've died have first
of all continued on in differentform and shifted, and that's a
really cool, interesting pieceof it that is sort of just
starting to make its appearanceto me, because I had to, of
(46:20):
course, go through, I had toprocess the initial shock and
hurt and sadness and everythingassociated with the deaths
themselves to get to this place.
I think Right, but now I feel Ican feel their, their, I can
feel a connection with them.
(46:40):
Yeah, I can feel it more atdifferent times.
I feel like I still have anongoing relationship with them
and there's something reallycool about that.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I think you're absolutely right, Tony.
Do you understand that?
Do you feel like you have aconnection with Maureen?
Not at all.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
I don't feel like I have a connection with much of
anything, and I don't know ifthat's because I'm not open up
to things like that, or if it'sbecause I've never explored it,
or if Because you have a dumptruck full of grief basically
riding around behind you.
It's interesting because you'retalking about, like the knocks
and things like that.
I'm like I don't experiencethat.
So if I don't have a knock andI don't have the whatever, like
(47:22):
this half back is blocked, it'sjust pushed back and pushed back
and maybe not.
I don't know.
That's the hard part is like Idon't know enough about that to
to really understand that.
But yeah, like when you'realways talking about huh,
maureen did that today or,maureen, I don't experience
those things or I'm not payingattention right.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Well, I think also, like if you just kind of open
that door when you get to thepoint where you're ready, of
saying I, I'm ready to processthis and I'm going to sit and
get quiet and get curious aboutsome of the things, and how did
that make me feel?
And you know, either takingquiet time, going for a hike,
journaling, like whatever itlooks like, honor your body for
(48:02):
whatever it will tell you onceyou kind of say, okay, invite
grief to the table and then justgo with whatever it says to do.
But I feel like the connectionthat I have with her is
definitely more because I waswilling to kind of sit in the
muck and I agree with you, Ithink that it's super special
because she does.
She shows up for me in the mostunusual ways and sometimes just
(48:25):
when I need her, and sometimesyou know, yeah, yeah, and it's a
beautiful thing, it makes mefeel like ways, and sometimes
just when I need her, andsometimes you know, yeah, and
it's a beautiful thing, it makesme feel like I have a secret.
Yeah, that's so special.
Yeah, you know, it's giving mefull body chills, because she
was important to us, you know,and for me I didn't talk to her
for the last year and a halfbefore she passed because I
(48:48):
drank a lot and she wouldn'tlisten to her for the last year
and a half before she passedbecause I drank a lot and she
wouldn't listen to me about thatother girl that she was married
to and she was so twisted upwith that guy and it was like I
will do whatever I need to do toget you away from him and this
is what I'm supposed to be doing.
And it was like you don't haveto do this and she just, god
(49:11):
damnmit, she wouldn't listen,which none of us would If I came
to you, laura, and said you'vegot to stop doing whatever it is
.
But you're like no, this is mylife, I'm not going to do that,
it's not my job to run yours,but I was so cocky and so just
let me save you.
I didn't realize it then.
I was just trying to be helpful.
So I had too much to drink andI told her off and then I didn't
(49:33):
talk to her for a year and ahalf and she died and it was
like the guilt of that and theweight of that, and I tell the
girls that all the time, becausethey fight my daughters.
I tell them don't leave it likethat.
It's fine if you don't want totalk, take space if you guys,
you know, don't want to, butdon't leave it on bad terms,
because I'd give anything to beable to apologize to her In
(49:56):
person.
I apologize to her spirit allthe time Because I just and she
knows she's always known, youknow, her and I were 18 months
apart and I just she was alwaysa better human being than I ever
was, you know, which is awesome.
So, no, I, tony, I encourage you, I encourage any of our
listeners, to just get to apoint where you're ready to
(50:18):
explore that because you say Idon't have that, I don't feel
that, I don't hear the knock.
The knock is happening, theuniverse is knocking.
You don't have to listen, butit's there, right, because in
different ways, you know, Ithink a big part of you and your
journey of things is just alsobeing quiet enough and being
willing enough to allow thosethings to come in, which is a
(50:41):
feat in and of itself, becauseit's not pretty work, it's stuff
that is gross and nasty, but ifyou knew that you could work
through that and you could getto the other side of that and
your life is amazing and youfeel these incredible highs and
you understand what grief is andwhat that looks like, and then
also being able to help otherpeople, because, laura, you have
(51:04):
to have so many people in yourlife that are like, say more,
tell me, because it's just atopic that no one ever talks
about.
So the fact that you are willingto talk about it, the fact that
that is what drives you, thefact that that is what your
life's purpose is, and thatyou're willing to talk about all
the gross things that come outbecause of that, I mean it's
impressive to me.
Well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Sometimes I feel like I'm the downer.
Let's talk about death.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
You know, I have found my match in that because I
swear to God, like for me, Iwant to always talk about deep
things.
You know, like I have a podcastwhere I'm like let's talk about
the grossest shit you can comeup with and like the things that
are shameful and the thingsthat are fears, and you know,
all of these low vibe, grossthings that everybody has Right
(51:52):
but nobody wants to talk about.
We want to talk about thelipstick and the pretty and the
Instagram and the filters, likeall of that shit, and I'm like
that's not real life.
So I feel like I'm the bonerkiller all the time.
But I've met my match in lawbecause she's like, hey, what do
you do for a living?
Help people with grief.
You're super comfortable withit in a way that to me, I think,
is makes it approachable you.
My middle daughter always saysshe goes 10 out of 10 people die
.
I don't know why everyone's soweird about it, and I don't
either.
I think we should normalize theconversation around death in
(52:16):
all of its forms Death whereit's tragic, death where it's
suicide, death where it's drugoverdoses.
Those are all really horrible,nasty things, but that's life.
We all deal with that, and andif no one knows how to process
that and it's just keep pushingit down or pushing it back and
keep going, and keep going, andkeep going, we're robbing
ourselves of being able to liveour life to the fullest
(52:38):
expression that we can.
And so, once you know that,doesn't that make you want to go
?
okay, let me go see what that isabout no, no and so no, it's
good for you to, for you to givethat input of saying like, no,
I'm still not interested in whatyou guys are peddling here.
I'm totally interested in that.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
I love it.
But it's interesting because,as you're talking, I'm sitting
here thinking about when you'relooking like, yes, look on the
other side, it's going to be somuch more fantastic and whatever
.
I am currently living a hundreddifferent situations where I'm
exploring why I'm doingsomething, the way or I allow
people to treat me a certain wayand just be used as a doormat
(53:18):
or whatever.
But I think, especially when itcomes to the grief for me and
just every so many areas of mylife, the unknown is really
fucking scary and it doesn'tmatter that, logically, I
understand, I'm gonna feelbetter if I can stand up for
myself to this one person and belike don't fucking talk to me.
Like that it's gonna feel muchbetter because either they're
(53:41):
going to respect that or they'renot, and they're not going to
be in my life and you're betteroff either way exactly logically
, that all makes sense.
It does not happen like that.
Of course, it's easier to say,yes, I need to deal with my
grief and whatever.
Sometimes the fear of changinghow you are and what you've been
living is enough to hold youback, and I'm exploring that in
(54:04):
so many facets of my life that,yes, logically, I would love to
change this.
I don't want to be like thisanymore.
I feel the strong being insidethat I used to have in certain
situations and and not that itit was I'm overpowering people
and I'm trying to be this bullyor whatever, but just like my
(54:24):
capabilities.
But all of that fear and all ofthat childhood trauma and all
of the I don't know why I dothis oh wait, now I know I do
this.
Let's figure that out.
Sometimes that fear is muchgreater and much more powerful
than the desire and the will tochange.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's true for a lot of peopleand that you know what we're
talking about the light andstuff that is possible, but also
it takes.
It can take a whole lot to getthere.
It can be really hard andreally painful and the walking
down that dark, unknown path,the fear of that, can absolutely
(55:06):
be enough to.
I'm not going down there.
Yeah, it's debilitating.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
Well, and especially, I think, for Tony, because he's
at this place where I hope youdon't mind that I share this,
but just being willing to.
I love the eyes that he makesat me.
He's like well, you're alreadysharing it so what the fuck am I
supposed to do to stop you?
But just being willing to evenfeel any of the feelings?
So for me, for Brennan, for you, who just pushed down emotions
(55:30):
our entire life and literallyjust had a joke up until late
30s of like I'm dead inside,that's just who I am and it just
was.
I mean it's for you, for him,for me.
But even having him come downhere and be on the podcast and
having him talk about some ofthe stuff that he is and the
things that have opened up forhim, it that he is and the
(55:50):
things that have opened up forhim, it's like, oh shit.
Like every time I hear either ofyou guys, I'm so, I'm so proud
and I'm so impressed because youdo it on your own time.
That's not, that's not for meto pick.
I deal with my own shit on myown time.
But I'm impressed because it isscary work and the fear of the
unknown is can be debilitating.
I just happen to be in thisplace in my life where I'm like
I I'm not going to live in fear,that's but, but I did for so
(56:11):
long of just I don't.
That looks messy, and so we'rejust going to go this other
direction, no matter what thatother direction looks like.
So to be able to say I'm notgoing to let that run things and
I'm going to go into it God,it's scary, it's scary.
Speaker 3 (56:26):
But it's much less scary.
I think and I think you and Ihave talked about this the
support system that we have atthe office right now is grand.
Speaker 1 (56:35):
It's grand, it's grand.
Speaker 3 (56:37):
I have never, because you don't expect that at work.
Speaker 1 (56:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
And I've never really had that.
So I have.
I can talk to anybody aboutanything.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
I don't want to say, without judgment, but for the
most part, without judging you,cause I'll go talk to them right
now.
Speaker 3 (56:52):
It's funny because it's it's like the joking
judgment.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
It's not like oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
But understanding that each one of us is in a
different path.
Each one of us brings differentthings to the table.
We can learn from each other.
Some of us are twinning, someof us are not.
But I also think to that pointwhen you're scared shitless to
try to break beyond something,it makes a difference of who you
have around you.
So for me, you all are myfriends and the people I spend
(57:21):
the most time with.
So being able to say like, hey,this is what's going on, I'm
like, oh yeah, I've experiencedthat too.
If for nothing else, then Ifeel heard.
Somebody else understands whatI'm going through, I'm not alone
.
The other part of that is mytherapist, the way that she
(57:45):
speaks to me and sometimes saysfirst of all, I want to thank
you for being willing to sharethat, because there are times in
therapy I feel comfortableenough to tell her anything and
everything.
There are times that I mighttell her later than I should
have or would have, but it does.
It takes an act of strength andpower to be able to be that
(58:06):
vulnerable, because it's a lot,and there's a lot even.
You know some of the decisionsthat I've made recently, and
I've spoken to her about that,sure, and I'm like I'm, I'm so
ashamed.
I don't feel guilty.
I feel ashamed because I cansee this stuff and I'm just
barging right in like my eyeswide open and but being able to
(58:26):
have somebody who says I wantyou to know that I see somebody
who's strong and honest andgives himself to others and
helps others and does all way,in addition to having the other
support of, yeah, it's okay.
(58:50):
Yes, this is scary.
It's a lot less scary when youhave good people around.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yeah well, and we all just want to be heard and seen,
yeah, you know, in any of thestuff that we're dealing with,
and that's extremely important.
So, yeah, well, thank you guysboth for coming today.
We're running out of time, butyeah, this has been a really
important conversation and wewill definitely continue this in
the future because I thinknormalizing death and grief and
(59:18):
processing emotions and what allof that looks like is extremely
important, because you're notunique, tony, in the way that
you were raised with notprocessing emotions and why does
it feel so?
You have to feel so brave to bevulnerable and it does.
I don't disagree with you likeI have to boss up every time I
come, sit on this couch and say,oh shit, what am I going to say
today?
Because it is just, it's soincredibly vulnerable.
(59:40):
But I I have to believe thatpeople hearing that, people
understanding what otherpeople's journeys are, will help
them and maybe it sparkssomething, maybe it it's an idea
of like, oh, I didn't thinkabout doing that, or oh, that's
a resource.
Who knew that there were lovelyladies like Laura out here, who
literally deals with grief,specializing in that?
That's powerful and grief onpurpose right, that's where you
(01:00:03):
can find Laura's grief onpurpose.
That's huge.
Being intentional aboutprocessing that instead of just
letting that happen to you.
It very much goes into the youknow you're happening to life
not it's happening to you, butbe intentional about what you're
willing to to deal with foryourself.
So for that, thank you guys,both for coming on and being
vulnerable.
(01:00:23):
Um, that's our time for today.
If you have questions orsuggestions, send us an email.
Our email address is ladies atletsgetnakedpodcastcom, and then
do all the things to supportthe pod Follow, share, rate and
review and we'll catch you nexttime.
That's a wrap.
(01:00:46):
I'd love to help you getvulnerable.
Let's get naked.
I'd love to help you get vulnerable.
Let's get naked.
Hey everyone, I'm Anne.
Welcome to the let's Get Nakedpodcast, where we dive deep into
vulnerability.
In this space, we'll explorewhat triggers us, uncover the
patterns holding us back anddiscover how to take charge of
our own growth.
If you're ready to dig in, bevulnerable and face the tough
(00:29):
stuff, then buckle up.
It's time to get naked.
Today, we're going to betalking about grief.
Grief can start in so many wayswhen you lose someone who you
never thought you'd have to livewithout.
It might be the death of apartner, a parent, a sibling, a
friend who was your rock, or itcould be the end of a
(00:51):
relationship when someone youonce imagined a future with
becomes a stranger.
It's the feeling when yourealize your childhood home is
no longer yours, or when a jobyou loved fades away, taking
your sense of purpose with it.
These losses, big or small,expected or unexpected, spark
grief, and that grief spreadslike wildfire through your life
(01:14):
in ways you can't predict.
Grief is this massive,uninvited guest that crashes
through your life and no onegives it enough credit for just
how much it fucks witheverything.
It's not just some sad feelingthat you feel when you think
about a loss, it's this giant,shifting wave of emotion that
wrecks your mind, body andspirit in the most insidious
(01:35):
ways.
It doesn't have a clearbeginning or end.
It just starts there, oftenwithout warning, and you're left
grappling with the emotionalaftermath as it bleeds into
every part of your life.
It's not just the obvious stuff, the sadness or the moments of
deep despair.
No, grief is like a spider web,stretching into places you
(01:57):
didn't even know were connectedto your pain.
It shows up in the way youinteract with people, how you
sleep, how you eat or don't, andthe strange disconnection you
feel with the world around you.
You can be fine one moment, andthe next you're drowning in
this quiet, persistent ache,struggling to breathe under the
weight of it all.
And the most frustrating partwe're so bad at processing it.
(02:21):
Like society has this weird,unspoken timeline for grief.
Right, people expect you to beover it after a certain period,
but grief doesn't fit neatlyinto that.
You can't force it into a boxor set a deadline for it to
leave.
It ebbs and flows, sometimeslurking in the background and
other times hitting you like aton of bricks when you least
(02:42):
expect it.
And God help you if you try tonumb it or push it away.
That's like ignoring a woundand hoping it heals on its own.
Spoiler alert it doesn't.
When we leave grief unprocessed,it festers.
It takes root in places insideus that we didn't know were
susceptible.
You start carrying all thisunresolved emotional baggage
around, and it's not just thepast that hurts.
(03:04):
You bring that pain into thepresent, carrying all this
unresolved emotional baggagearound, and it's not just the
past that hurts.
You bring that pain into thepresent and it messes with your
ability to function, to love, tobe whole.
Grief has a way of coloring yourinteractions, making you more
irritable, more withdrawn andless capable of really being in
the world.
You might stop trusting people,stop caring about things you
(03:29):
once loved and end up living ina fog of detached, suppressed
emotions.
It can ruin your ability tofind peace or joy, leaving you
stuck in a cycle of resentmentor fear.
And when we try to rush throughgrief or sweep it under the rug
, we miss the chance to actuallylearn from it.
Because grief, as ugly andpainful as it is, is a teacher.
It shows you the depths of yourown vulnerability, your ability
to love and be loved, yourstrength in surviving.
(03:50):
If you let it, it can be anagent of change, but that
requires giving it the space andrespect it deserves, something
we're not always great at.
We need to stop treating grieflike it's something to get over
or move past as quickly aspossible and start embracing it
for what it is a multi-layeredtransformative force that takes
time, care and attention toprocess.
(04:11):
If you leave it unprocessed,that's a slow burn.
You'll feel it in every part ofyour life in ways you never
expected.
It'll ruin your mental health,your relationship, your sense of
self and, before you know it,you're a version of yourself
that doesn't even resemble whoyou once were.
The damage is real.
It's not just sadness.
(04:31):
It's the unraveling of thethreads that hold your whole
damn existence together.
Grief deserves to be felt, tobe acknowledged, to be processed
fully.
Otherwise it'll stick around,in ways you can't even imagine,
long after the moment of losshas passed.
Today, we're stripping it alloff with Laura Walton.
(04:52):
Laura is a licensed marriage,family therapist, grief coach,
after-loss professional, yogainstructor and author.
You can find Laura, includingonline courses that she offers
to help work through grief andtrauma, at griefonpurposecom.
Welcome to the show, laura.
Hi, hi, thanks for having me.
(05:13):
Also joining us today is myyoungest brother, keith, who I
also call Tony, as most of youknow, tony is joining us to be
able to share and discuss ourfamily's journey with us, as it
surrounds the grief that theloss of our sister a few years
ago brought to our front door.
So welcome to you as well.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Thank you, it's wonderful to be back again, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
For everyone listening.
This is going to be a difficultepisode for all of us, actually
, and so it is what it is.
That's real life.
Grief is, like I always say,the granddaddy of emotions.
So, laura, I would love tostart with you and just kind of
hear about your journey and whatgot you to do what you do for a
(05:59):
living which I find to befascinating and incredible work
that I think is so incrediblyimportant.
So, if you don't mind, justkind of sharing with us your
journey for how you got to here,yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, first I just want to say, over the last I
don't know 15 years or so, atleast professionally speaking,
grief has become just what I do,or so, at least professionally
speaking, grief has become justwhat I do.
And you know, when you dosomething every day, it just
becomes to some degree normal.
And so hearing what you wrote,that was that was good and that,
(06:35):
that that kind of brought meback to the reality of it, of
grief, and like why I'm evenhere and what I do, why I even
do what I do, why it's important.
So thank you for that,Absolutely.
It was hard to read, yeah, yeah, but I am a licensed therapist,
a grief coach.
(06:56):
I I got into this.
Well, I got into this workbecause of my life experiences.
I never I wasn't one of thosekids who was like I'm going to
be a doctor when I grow up orI'm going to be a lawyer,
whatever.
I didn't have a thing I wasgoing to be when I grew up.
And then I found myself in my20s being faced with death right
(07:21):
in the right smack there infront of you.
My dad committed suicide when Iwas 21.
And when I was 26, the guy whohad been my on again, off again,
boyfriend.
But more than that, my bestfriend in the whole world died
(07:42):
of a drug overdose.
Friend in the whole world diedof a drug overdose.
So both of those situations Iwas completely unprepared for
and found myself very quickly inthe aftermath, navigating a
world that felt like it wasunprepared for me, unprepared
for what I was going through.
With those situations I couldn'tfind great support out there.
(08:06):
I couldn't find resources Icouldn't find and me being in my
20s contributed to this.
But I couldn't find anybodyelse who was experiencing this
and given the fact that we willall die at some point, that even
then that struck me as crazy.
Yeah, why is there nothing outhere?
(08:26):
So it took me some time.
But, um, that was whatmotivated me to go to grad
school, became a therapist, um,I knew I was going to be working
with grief from the beginning,um, and so, you know, eventually
was able to start my ownpractice and work with grief.
You know, eventually was ableto start my own practice and
work with grief.
And then, in the more recentyears, um, I feel like I'm kind
(08:48):
of growing beyond the box oftherapy, um, trying to broaden
my reach and broaden more whatI'm able to do, and so that's
evolving more into the coachingand I'm writing a book, um, and
just this whole evolution of mywork with grief.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I think it's incredible I really do, I think
dedicating your work and yourpassion to something that's so
incredibly important that Ithink so many people don't talk
about.
I have friends and family and Ithink it's just so, almost even
taboo which is crazy to mebecause we're in 2025, and I
think we still don't talk about.
(09:29):
I'm really struggling with this.
Whatever it is right.
Obviously we talk about theloss of family members and
parents and siblings and stuff.
We still don't.
I think people don't know whatto say, and so they get twisted
up in that.
I think people don't know whatto say and so they get twisted
(09:49):
up in that.
It's so important, I think, tokind of normalize the
conversation around that so thatwe can also support, because I
don't know how you processed thegrief that you had.
Maybe you can share that, butfor me, I just about melted my
entire life down because Ididn't know how to process
regular emotions.
And then you hit me upside thehead with what I will call the
granddaddy of emotions and itweaseled its way into every
(10:11):
aspect of my life and I justabout burned my entire life down
because I just didn't know howto handle it.
You know, and so when you talkabout being 21 and losing your
father which in a horrible wayright, it isn't like it's
obviously tragic enough forsomebody to have a heart attack
or something, but in such atragic way.
You know how, what, where didyou find support, or you know,
or what did that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Well with with my dad's death.
It was different than than myboyfriend's death later.
With my dad's death, I don'tthink I think I dealt with it by
avoiding it.
I at the time was actuallydating the guy who ended up
dying later, but we were longdistance relationship and so I
(10:52):
ended up leaving Phoenix andgoing to live where he was
living and it felt like justkind of this like I'm done with
Arizona, I'm done with my family, I'm done, you know, like I'm
done with Arizona, I'm done withmy family, I'm done with you
know, like I'm done with all ofthis and I'm just going to go
run away from it.
Um, and so that's, that wasokay for, yeah, until it wasn't.
(11:18):
That was okay for, uh, fiveyears, um, but then the next
death happened and that blew myworld apart.
My relationship with theboyfriend who died was better
than my relationship with my dad, and so that to me at the time
felt like a bigger loss and aharder loss.
But I think it was alsocompounded with what I hadn't
(11:43):
faced with my dad.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Right, the unprocessed grief.
That was kind of like followingaround behind you like a
wrecking ball, yeah, which Ifeel like that does when you
don't process it yeah, yes, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So then, yeah, just not knowing how to process all
of this when it came um,smashing down on me was was I
initially the part that I waslike what the fuck?
Speaker 3 (12:08):
There's no guidebook for this.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Right, there's nobody to help you with this that I
could find.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Well, in 20s it's hard enough to deal with regular
life in your 20s, right, you'retrying to figure out who you
are, or just some basic stuff.
But, on top of that, you'retrying to deal with loss at such
a big level for both of those,yeah yeah, and some of what I
found like almost made it worse.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Like I, I found support groups, but they were
for 80 year olds who's um, youknow, and there's.
So there were so manycomplexities I found, because I
was looking for support aroundlosing a partner, but we weren't
married, we were young, youknow.
So I found these support.
I was looking for supportaround losing a partner, but we
weren't married, we were young,you know.
So I found these support groupswhere, as I said, 80-year-olds'
husbands or wives had died, butit just felt like, but that's
(12:54):
not me, and so that made me feelthat much more alone.
Yeah, like I couldn't findanybody who was remotely similar
to what I was experiencing.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Do you feel like you know part of what I, what I said
at the beginning about gettingthrough it, or you know kind of
society's OK, get over it, orthere's a certain expiration
date on when your grief shouldbe processed.
What are your thoughts on that?
What is your kind of yourtraining on that?
Or do you get to a point whereit's I've processed that all the
(13:30):
way through, or is that justsomething then that you always
will deal with in some capacity?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, well, everybody seems to have their own idea of
some magic number right.
Like, but this time by when weshould be done grieving, um, or
we should be over it, or it'stime to move on, um, you know,
six months a year, two years,five years, whatever, like
there's there is no right orwrong answer, um, but we get
(14:01):
these messages from the peoplein our lives, or just from
society in general, that thereis a timeline and if we're not
feeling better, or whatever thatmeans, by that timeline, then
there's something wrong with usor we're doing it wrong.
So then that can create a wholeother slew of problems, because
(14:22):
not only are you grieving andfeeling all of that, but then
you're you're, you're doing itwrong.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Right, which feels terrible in and of itself, right
Like yeah, okay, that's, that'sfascinating.
Where do you feel, like howlong had it been in that process
for you, for both of thoselosses, that you felt like you
were able to get some tractionon any of the things, any of the
tools or direction, that youwere able to find that support
(14:48):
that was meaningful andsomething that actually tracked
in with what you wereexperiencing?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah.
So the most meaningful thingthat I felt at the time and now,
reflecting back on all thethings I've done over the years,
I still find it to be true ismy yoga practice.
So I had already beenpracticing.
(15:15):
I guess I started practicingyoga after my dad's death but
before my boyfriend's death, soI already had a little bit of
experience with that.
But there was a yoga teachertraining that I did in 2008.
My boyfriend had died in 2007.
So I think it started almost ayear after.
(15:36):
That was the thing that waslife changing and transformative
.
But it wasn't just about.
When I say yoga, yoga, peopleoften think of the physical
poses and the fitness.
Yeah, the fitness part, that'swhat we generally understand
yoga to be um, in our society atleast.
Uh, so that's a part of it, butit's only one small part of it,
(15:58):
and the training that I did andthe study that I kind of
unknowingly threw myself intowas the study of the other limbs
of yoga and just how those,what those are, getting a better
understanding of what those areand because of where I was in
my life, I applied those to mygrief.
But if I had to summarize it inone sentence, which is next to
(16:22):
impossible to do, but it's thelesson of learning how to relax
with what is learning how to bewith something that's really
uncomfortable really leaninginto that discomfort yes, and so
through that yoga teachertraining that's.
That was probably my number onebig takeaway and that directly
(16:44):
applied to grief.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that and I think that
that's that speaks volumes to mewhen you say that because I
relay that to I had never lostanybody until my sister passed
away, and so, being able to runfrom it as I did for a couple of
years after she passed becauseI didn't want to lean into the
discomfort, I didn't want to sitwith it you know.
and so the the yoga that youtalk about and the being
(17:07):
comfortable just sitting withgrief, I don't think there's
anything probably more painfulthan sitting with grief and I
think that that's why we numband we try to hide from it and
we all of the things.
But when you realize that itliterally is a wrecking ball
that you're pulling aroundbehind your life, hurting other
people, not being, you know,living your best life, having
(17:31):
that spider into all of thedifferent areas of yours kind of
makes it, once you have thatawareness, makes it way more
important for you to do thatwork.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, yeah, because we're not taught to do that.
We're not taught how to sitwith something uncomfortable,
period, right, whatever.
Yeah, cause we're not taught todo that.
We're not taught, we're nottaught how to sit with something
uncomfortable, period Whateverthat is.
It's so easy just to distractwith 10,000 things in any given
moment.
So, yeah, when it comes togrief, we definitely don't know
and aren't prepared for how tobe with that, but that is the
(18:02):
one I don't know.
I'll use the word key.
That is the one key to grief,to being able to, because grief
is always gonna be a part ofyour life and your story once
you experience it.
So in being able to have thatbe true, we need to be able to
sit with it.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I find it fascinating that so many of us have no idea
how to deal with grief, becauseit isn't just the loss of
someone, it's the loss ofmarriage, it's the loss of
something that maybe you wereworking towards that got pulled
out from underneath you forwhatever reason in life.
I mean, grief is such a big,broad emotion.
How could we be so terrible asa society at processing it?
(18:47):
Do you find that that's, haveyou found that that's more of a
our society like America kind ofthing?
Are there other cultures inother countries that they're
better at doing that?
Or is that, or maybe that's noteven something that you have
any idea about?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I don't have a ton of experience in that as far as
other cultures, maybe avoidanceof it, I do know that some
cultures every culture probablyhas a different, very general
and stereotypical way that theyunderstand death and view death.
That applies to some people butnot all.
(19:22):
But you know, in some of thework I've done I've seen um
different beliefs where we don'ttalk about the dead because, um
, they believe that the beliefthere is that that keeps the
them still in this physicalworld when they're trying to
travel beyond, to the next realmor um world or whatever that
(19:42):
belief is, but we keep themtrapped when we talk about them.
Interesting, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I feel like I have a better an understanding that you
would want to talk about.
Right.
For me, it's like celebratingmy sister on her birthday, or
speaking about her and reallycelebrating that and the impact
that she had in this world,instead of just the opposite.
So it's fascinating to me thatyou say that.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Well, it's interesting and I'm not
certainly not going to say anyparticular culture is right or
wrong, but it does make mecurious, like how does that
impact your grief process?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Absolutely Right, because if you are trying to let
them go and not remember themand have a still a connection
we've talked previously aboutkind of having a connection with
your person after they'vepassed and how important that is
for some of us I think somepeople definitely don't want
anything to do with that.
We're going to push that downand push that away, which was
(20:36):
definitely what I subscribed to.
Initially.
It was okay, well, she's nothere and so how do I just move
on from that?
But as I've gone throughprocessing my grief, it's more
how do you celebrate her, how doyou celebrate her life?
How do you stay connected?
When are the times that you dofeel connected to that person,
(20:56):
even though they're not herewith us anymore?
So you would think for me, likeno, we want to remember our
people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did you have um?
Was your?
Was your family?
Do you have siblings?
How was what did that look likewhen your dad committed suicide
and was like what did thatwhole support?
Or was that everyone go yourown direction and not really
talk about it much?
(21:17):
Or what did that look?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
like Well, I do have siblings, I'm the oldest, I have
a younger sister and a youngerbrother and I wouldn't say we've
ever been the closest family.
And I think that remained truein grief, in that it was sort of
kind of figure it out on yourown.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Remain to themselves, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, I was, I'm the oldest and so and I wasn't even
in actually in the state when ithappened.
And so I, you know, came backto Arizona soon after, but my
sister was actually there forwhat happened and witnessed and
(22:02):
witnessed he.
Basically he called my sisterand told her that he was going
to kill himself.
And quick backstory he had, mydad, struggled with mental
health and this topic of suicidewas not a new topic for us.
He had talked about itthroughout my childhood.
(22:23):
So for him to say I'm going tokill myself wasn't something we
hadn't heard before, but it'sobviously still something you
jump at.
And he called my sister, whowas a week away from turning 18
at the time, and told her that.
And she went over to his houseand he, he called the, he also
(22:44):
called the police and told themhe was going to kill himself.
And they showed up and he had agun and he pointed it at them
and they told him to drop it andhe didn't, so they shot him and
my sister was there andwitnessed the whole thing.
So with that comes a lot, a lotof a lot of layers of emotion
(23:10):
and beliefs and, um, you know,how do you make sense of that.
Um so, you know, I was as thebig sister, you know like at 21
right, I mean yes, no, yeah Imean you were, but that's crazy
because you're still a child at21, trying to deal with these
huge emotions yeah, but as thethe big, the older sister who in
(23:33):
some ways, I think on onreflection of my childhood, had
felt kind of a sense ofresponsibility for the younger
ones, like that, you know, thatcarries some weight to it, and
my brother was 14 at the time,so he's a kid too.
But in the I mean, as I said, Idealt with it by moving out of
(23:56):
state, so we definitely weren't,you know, like bonding over
that or connecting over theexperience.
It felt like it's like figureit out on your own yeah, yeah
god, that's so heavy.
I know I can feel it.
It's crazy because the weightin here is a lot.
Yeah, it is really heavy inhere and I've told this story a
(24:18):
lot of times before.
You know, and it's not new, butit's still.
This is the grief like this is.
It's still true, it's stillreal, it still holds all of that
emotion, even now.
I can't do math, but 20 over 20years ago right, right, and
it's still same.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
So I would love to to use this as an opportunity to
kind of segue into talking alittle bit about.
You know our experience andI'll share that and maybe you
can offer some insight or askquestions or help along our
journey too, because obviously20 years later and it still not
only brings emotion to you butto others that hear that story,
(25:01):
because you do hear people thatstruggle with suicidal thoughts
and I've dealt with that in ourfamily, not where someone
actually committed suicide, butjust the thoughts of that and
saying I'm going to do this andhow scary that is.
And you get to where it's notlike crying wolf, but crying
(25:21):
wolf a little bit, because it'ssuch an emotional roller coaster
of okay I'm okay, I'm okay, andnow I'm not okay, now I'm not
okay, and everyone's just tryingto do their own lives as well.
So, regardless of whether it'sa family member or not, you
still get kind of roped intothis whole roller coaster of a
whole life with someone and I'mso sympathetic to that because
(25:41):
it's just torture, it's puretorture.
So sympathetic to that becauseit's just it's torture, it's
pure torture.
So a little bit of a history onthe grief that got slammed in
our front door Tony, my sister,who, in our birth order oldest
sister, next sister, the onethat passed is the second in the
(26:02):
birth order, then me, then Ihave a younger brother and then
Tony is the baby.
Ten years ago-ish, our sisterwas pregnant with her fourth
child and she was living in anunconventional situation where
(26:25):
they were in a community in walltents kind of thing, and she
decided that she was going to doa home birth with not any
professionals.
Like she was 39 years old,you're already high risk.
You don't have any businessdoing that.
But she was an hour away fromthe closest hospital and went
(26:48):
into labor and the midwives intraining were not able to
provide assistance that sheneeded and she died giving birth
to her fourth child.
And Tony and I were talking theother day about what that phone
call felt like and where wewere and trying to get to her,
(27:09):
because at the moment of thatphone call they didn't know if
she was going to make it, butshe wasn't dead yet.
They were driving her to theclosest hospital and then
airlifting her to Nashville andby the time we got on the ground
in Nashville our other brotherpicked us up and said that she
(27:30):
wasn't going to make it.
She was at that point in a coma, but they were just keeping her
alive long enough so that wecould come say goodbye to her.
I feel like, for those that knowme, they realize that that
imploded my entire life, but notin a way that you maybe even
(27:51):
realize from the outside.
I was always a big drinker,anyways, and I remember coming
back from that all happening anddoing the funerals and doing
the service in Colorado, and Iremember sitting at my desk and
there was just nothing in myhead, it was just static and I
didn't know what to do.
And again, I, my history withemotions is fuck them, you don't
(28:13):
need them, you don't even wantto waste.
Those are messy, you know.
And so that was literally my,my entire relationship with
emotions.
Up until that point I was I was37 years old at that point
because she was 39, so, yeah, Iguess it was 10 years, um, and I
(28:33):
spent the next uh, two yearsjust destroying my life with
alcohol and not even reallyrealizing I was doing that,
because I didn't realize whatgrief was.
I was just numbing, I wasnumbing, numbing, numbing, and
that was just so that I didn'thave to feel it and then I got
(28:53):
sober and I realized, oh, that'sa huge part of it.
Obviously I had other thingsthat were in my past, but the
grief component of that I can'teven put words to how that feels
and I know that you know, indealing with your own grief and
also just helping other peopleprocess their own.
(29:14):
But to me on a scale of 1 to 10,that's like a 40 of painful to
sit in grief to.
Really there's no answers.
There's no like woulda couldashoulda.
Why did this happen?
Like there's no answers.
There's no like woulda couldashoulda.
Why did this happen?
Like there's no, there's norhyme or reason to why you lost
your dad at 21, why you lost themost important person in your
life at 26 I mean, you're a babyat 26, right, and even though I
(29:37):
was 37 and my sister was 39,it's like there's no, there's no
rhyme or reason.
She's here one day, gone thenext.
I have spent a lot of time overthe last 10 years really kind of
processing that.
I feel like I've gotten betterat it.
You know the first couple ofyears of drinking and whatnot
(29:59):
and then just really doingtherapy and lots of different
healing modalities to workthrough that.
I still think there's a pilethere, you know, I think you
start with like here's this pileof grief maybe, and then you
know not that it's ever gone,gone, but I think there's
definitely, when you're ready totackle that, a lot more to
tackle.
Tony, maybe you can share whereyou have been with the grief
(30:23):
process for that, or you knowwhat that looked like for you,
or your understanding of grieffrom you know, maybe a person
who didn't deal with that before, just Laura for your
information and our listeners.
Uh, tony, also subscribed tothe same.
Who needs emotions?
Fuck them.
My other brother, same right.
(30:44):
We all just joked around for somany years that we were dead
inside.
We were happy to be that way,yeah, even before she passed.
So then when you have somethinglike this that happens, it just
it feels like someone brought aton of cement and just poured
it on top of you and it's like Idon't even know.
I don't know how to deal withjoy and peace, and you know
happiness and sadness and theregular ones.
(31:05):
Now here's grief, you know.
So, tony, what, what did thatlook like for you?
Speaker 3 (31:10):
um, it looked like processing anything else that
was undesirable for me.
Um, it meant it was.
I see kind of a pattern withdealing with things like that,
because our mother lost both ofher sisters at an early age too,
(31:32):
and I was around for both oftheir deaths for some reason.
That just seems to be a weirdthing.
And then one of our unclespassed away and we've had
multiple outside family memberspass away that we weren't
necessarily super close with andI feel like and I have never
really delved into it, but Ifeel like it was just a okay,
(31:53):
this event happened.
Now we're moving on to the next, and that is kind of what
happened with Marine.
It was a little more drawn outbecause we got that phone call,
we had to scramble, we got overthere, we had a funeral, then we
went to Colorado, we had afuneral and it was a lot of
moving around and I wasn't witheverybody when, like over Easter
, I remember that year,everybody was up in Colorado but
(32:14):
for some reason I was down hereby myself.
And I remember distinctly oneof the things that I thought was
I'm so relieved that she's nothere anymore.
For her own sake, of course, weall want her here.
But, given her situation, giventhat she thought she had no
other options and no otherchoices, I think I found some
(32:39):
solace in that, even though itwasn't the answer that I wanted
and it wasn't what any of uswanted, even though it wasn't
the answer that I wanted and itwasn't what any of us wanted.
I don't know if that's justlike a really messed up way to
look at things, of like, yeah,there's, she's not dealing with
all that, she's not having tosacrifice everything about who
she is and what she is becauseshe doesn't feel like she has
(33:00):
any other way out.
And also, I had I happened tobe in Colorado when they were up
there at the month prior, so itwas very short.
Like I saw her and then the nexttime I saw her she was no
longer.
And that is a lasting memoryfor me, because and I thankfully
have that picture of her ridingthe horse, which is always
(33:22):
where she wanted to be that'sall she wanted to do.
And there was another componentof that for me that was like
I'm so glad I got to see her atthat time, because that my
relationship with her wasprobably just as weird as it was
with everybody else, like wetalked, we didn't really
necessarily have any drama orproblems or anything, but it was
(33:44):
a struggle.
She had things going on, I hadthings going on, we were trying
to do all that so, but she hadbeen removed out of my life,
outside of phone calls andthings and the rare visit for so
many years and so long that italso was a okay, well, she's
just no longer here.
And it wasn't.
It didn't never like click inmy brain of like the gravity and
(34:08):
this just the gravity of thewhole situation.
It was okay, well, this allhappened.
Okay, well, I have to preparefor my trip to Europe, so I'm
going to go to Europe and then,oh well, I get back from Europe
and now I have to have surgery.
So I'm just going to go intosurgery and then, okay, I have
four months off and then I'mgoing to go into another surgery
and then we're going to go toColorado and then we're going to
go do this and then all ofthese things.
(34:29):
Now that I'm thinking about it,I've never thought about it
before, maybe not necessarilythings that I chose to numb with
, but they were helping me numb,because I'm really good at
completely pushing everythingback, completely ignoring things
and just going on with my daybecause I have something else to
do.
The same thing and I don't everwant to compare the death of an
(34:50):
animal to a death of a relativebut I did the same thing when I
had to put my dog down.
I was devastated in the momentwe put her down.
I left and then I just okay,well, I had to go get ready for
my trip.
I have to sell my house and Ihad to go get ready for this
other trip.
And then it was just like, okay, well, that event happened in
that three-hour window and thenI never got really sad about it
again.
So for me it was the exactopposite of what you experienced
(35:16):
.
You didn't know how to handleit.
Well, I didn't know how tohandle it either.
I just blocked it away.
That's how I handled it andnever processed it and and I've
spoken about it in therapy notanything that I've really delved
into and like we spoke about itprobably for an hour session,
(35:36):
and one of the things that shetold me, cause I felt again
going back to what is ourtimeline, for how long we're
supposed to feel sad, how, whendo we get over that?
Do we ever get over that?
I was like I feel like I kindof got over that really fast and
that doesn't feel right.
And I remember her distinctlybecause I also look at our, our
(35:58):
mother, who the loss of a childis devastating, but it took her
many years to be able to get toa point where she was okay
talking about marine and I askedher about that.
I'm like I feel like that exact, I had this blip in my life.
It was really sad and it wastragic.
We're missing a piece of ourfamily, but then I just moved
(36:20):
right on.
And then the opposite side ofthat is, for years, other people
are processing it and holdingonto it and dealing with it.
And I don't remember exactlywhat she said to me, but it was
something along the lines of wedo that to ourselves.
So for me it was like, okay,well, I'm not, maybe I didn't
process it enough and maybe Ididn't give it the the amount of
(36:43):
time that it needed or theamount of effort or work that it
needed to process that through.
But then I felt a little bitrelieved because I didn't want
to keep myself in that.
So now when I talk about it,people are devastated.
I tell them the story and Italk about it just like I'm
talking right now, very likenonchalant, like yeah, it
(37:04):
happened in my life.
And other people are like, oh,my God, that's such a big deal.
I'm so sad for you.
I mean, have I had people starttearing up on me?
Speaker 1 (37:12):
That's a big deal.
It's a terrible situation.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
And for me I'm just like oh yeah, it just happened.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
So so, laura, I would .
I would ask this question justbased on listening to him talk,
not that I'm trying to like, hey, let's get naked, come on,
we're going to therapize you.
You're not moving anywhere.
Laura, get him, that's kind ofeveryone at home listening.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
That's what this feels like.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
That's not what this was.
No-transcript, I wasn't reallyprocessing it.
(37:56):
I was just not processing it inthe same way that you running
and just piling stuff on top of.
But then what does that looklike, laura, as far as just
unresolved or unprocessed griefBecause part of what I said at
the beginning, where it justkind of like seeps into your
entire life if you don't dealwith that, what does that look?
Speaker 2 (38:15):
like.
It can look like a lot ofdifferent things, but I think,
whether it's, you know, a yearfrom then, or whether it's 30
years from then, and grief keepsknocking, yeah, and it gets
louder and louder and louder,until eventually something
breaks and it sounds like foryou the drinking.
(38:36):
Somehow there came a point whenyou decided you had to stop
that.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I was literally destroying my entire life with
alcohol just because I wasliterally hiding from the knock.
I didn't want to answer thedoor, and so it was just just
put more alcohol on it.
It doesn't matter what time ofday you're drinking, or how much
you're drinking, or the factthat you're not paying attention
to any of your family, the factthat you're doing things that
are out of character for who youare, it doesn't matter.
We're just going to keep goingdown that road until I just
(39:01):
literally could not do thatanymore.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, so there comes a point when you can't do it
anymore, when you can't pretendyou're not hearing the knock,
and that point obviously looksdifferent for everybody and that
point comes at different timesfor people.
But the grief in my experiencewith myself and others it
demands to be seen and it willpatiently or not so patiently
(39:32):
wait for a while, but sooner orlater it's going to show up in
some way.
How do you?
Speaker 1 (39:39):
invite it to the table with.
You Say, for example, justbecause you're sitting here and
we're picking on you.
Tony Say, for example he says Ifeel like I've never dealt with
that.
I feel like I ran and ran andran.
I had one therapy session.
I feel like I'm good.
Put it back up on the shelf,whatever.
There's a lot that goes intowhat you just said.
I don't know if you realizethat or not.
With I felt relieved becauseshe wasn't here anymore.
(40:00):
I felt the exact same way thatmade me suffering anymore For
someone that went on for alifelong.
My sister was, our sister waswith someone who was I don't
even know how do you describeUndesirable, undesirable.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
By most of the population.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
I mean just heinous.
Just a man that was just hadher doing things that we don't
think were her choice, but againshe was stuck and and then I
had all of these other feelingsof not being able to save her.
You know, because when she wasearly on with him, I'm like,
come live with me, I'll takecare of finances.
I just I literally was come on,I, I will, I will save you, and
(40:40):
then that obviously is my youknow shit to deal with as well,
with it's not your job to saveother people and like all of the
things.
But the feeling of relief, thefeeling of any of the feelings
that you feel, that's obviouslymore than just a one-hour
therapy session, and I think youknow that.
I mean, this isn't like asurprise where we're surprising
Tony with like hey, we're goingto give you some free therapy to
(41:00):
deal with this.
But if grief does keep knockingand does keep knocking, if
you're at a point where yourealize, okay, okay, I have this
grief, not just for you, justfor the listeners how do you
invite that to the table and say, okay, I'm ready to start
having a relationship with you,because I do think that grief is
that big of a deal.
You know where you do need tosay okay, how am I going to
(41:23):
process this, but how do you,how would you suggest to people
to be able to start that or tobe able to kind of advance their
journey?
Speaker 2 (41:29):
as it relates to that , yeah, I think part of it is
being really intentional andpurposeful with it.
Hence the grief on purpose name.
But because, as, as Tony, youwere saying, like you can, it's
so easy You're not the only oneby any means Like we've all.
(41:51):
It's so easy to be, to get busywith our lives and be like but
I have, I already have thisthing planned and I have to do
this, and then I have to do likethat's how we live a lot of the
time, and so, even if we dowant to feel our grief in that,
it's easy to not, um.
So I think, just being really,I think it can be very important
to be intentional andpurposeful about it and create
(42:15):
space for that grief to be.
That can look like a lot ofdifferent things, but maybe most
simply, just when we're feelingready to, or interested in, or
curious about our grief, just togive ourselves a couple minutes
(42:37):
just to sit with that questionof where is my grief, how is my
grief, what is my grief, andstart to get curious about it.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
I love that.
I love that and start to getcurious about it.
I love that.
I love that.
It's so funny to me because thework that I do, not only with
this podcast but with otherthings, it's all the gross stuff
, it's all the hard stuff, it'sall the shit that it's like no,
thank you.
And I totally get that.
But I will say that as I'vegone in life and in the last
(43:06):
eight years for me, I am a muchbetter person, I am a much
happier person, I am a much allthe things, because I've been
willing to get curious and say,okay, what does grief look like
in my life?
For not only the loss of peoplethat were close to me, but
other things as well.
Because I think grief is likerides in its own satchel and you
(43:28):
know, you just keep addingstuff to it and, like I said, I
think you do pull it behind youlike a wrecking ball.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yeah, and there really is beauty in grief, Like
if you haven't in my experience,if you haven't experienced the
depths of all the emotion that'sentailed in grief, then it's
really hard to experience theother side of that coin.
(43:55):
If you haven't been in thedeepest, hardest, heaviest,
darkest place, then you can'texperience the lightest, highest
, most joyful place.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, and I agree with that a thousand percent,
because I think when you numb,when you numb and you kind of
leave your emotions at like aflat line because you're not
willing to deal with the thingsthat are nasty and gross and low
and all of that, you don't getthe highs either.
Yeah, and the highs to me areoutstanding.
(44:29):
Yeah mean you can't even putwords to how great you can
actually feel.
So I was talking to somebodyrecently about what that looked
like me getting sober and doingall of this work and kind of
being willing to use my emotionsas a tool.
I felt like I was good beforeand I look back and it's like
maybe I was a four out of ascale of one to 10.
That's literally how big of adeal I feel like it is now that
(44:51):
I'm willing to feel the emotionsand feel them as they come up,
and it's not at convenient timesalways.
You know I'm coming into todaywith I'm already raw from other
things and that's just theuniverse's way of like go ahead
and cry on your own podcast,it's going to be fine, but you
know the universe will just tellyou when it's time to be able
to do that and the knock andhowever loud that gets, and when
(45:14):
you're ready to sit down andsay, okay, come out to play,
I'll sit with you, no matter howbad that hurts, because that's
a small percentage of time asyou process that to really open
your life up to get the highesthighs.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, yeah.
And there you know, as, as allthe years pass by, for me, um,
as we've already said multipletimes today, there's the
expectation that I'm ever goingto be done with grief or that
it's ever going to be over.
Just is not true.
This is going to be a part ofmy life forever.
But and also I've been noticingnow that some more time has
(45:56):
passed, like the way that mygrief has shifted and the way
that my relationships with thepeople who I've died have first
of all continued on in differentform and shifted, and that's a
really cool, interesting pieceof it that is sort of just
starting to make its appearanceto me, because I had to, of
(46:20):
course, go through, I had toprocess the initial shock and
hurt and sadness and everythingassociated with the deaths
themselves to get to this place.
I think Right, but now I feel Ican feel their, their, I can
feel a connection with them.
(46:40):
Yeah, I can feel it more atdifferent times.
I feel like I still have anongoing relationship with them
and there's something reallycool about that.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I think you're absolutely right, Tony.
Do you understand that?
Do you feel like you have aconnection with Maureen?
Not at all.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
I don't feel like I have a connection with much of
anything, and I don't know ifthat's because I'm not open up
to things like that, or if it'sbecause I've never explored it,
or if Because you have a dumptruck full of grief basically
riding around behind you.
It's interesting because you'retalking about, like the knocks
and things like that.
I'm like I don't experiencethat.
So if I don't have a knock andI don't have the whatever, like
(47:22):
this half back is blocked, it'sjust pushed back and pushed back
and maybe not.
I don't know.
That's the hard part is like Idon't know enough about that to
to really understand that.
But yeah, like when you'realways talking about huh,
maureen did that today or,maureen, I don't experience
those things or I'm not payingattention right.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Well, I think also, like if you just kind of open
that door when you get to thepoint where you're ready, of
saying I, I'm ready to processthis and I'm going to sit and
get quiet and get curious aboutsome of the things, and how did
that make me feel?
And you know, either takingquiet time, going for a hike,
journaling, like whatever itlooks like, honor your body for
(48:02):
whatever it will tell you onceyou kind of say, okay, invite
grief to the table and then justgo with whatever it says to do.
But I feel like the connectionthat I have with her is
definitely more because I waswilling to kind of sit in the
muck and I agree with you, Ithink that it's super special
because she does.
She shows up for me in the mostunusual ways and sometimes just
(48:25):
when I need her, and sometimesyou know, yeah, yeah, and it's a
beautiful thing, it makes mefeel like ways, and sometimes
just when I need her, andsometimes you know, yeah, and
it's a beautiful thing, it makesme feel like I have a secret.
Yeah, that's so special.
Yeah, you know, it's giving mefull body chills, because she
was important to us, you know,and for me I didn't talk to her
for the last year and a halfbefore she passed because I
(48:48):
drank a lot and she wouldn'tlisten to her for the last year
and a half before she passedbecause I drank a lot and she
wouldn't listen to me about thatother girl that she was married
to and she was so twisted upwith that guy and it was like I
will do whatever I need to do toget you away from him and this
is what I'm supposed to be doing.
And it was like you don't haveto do this and she just, god
(49:11):
damnmit, she wouldn't listen,which none of us would If I came
to you, laura, and said you'vegot to stop doing whatever it is
.
But you're like no, this is mylife, I'm not going to do that,
it's not my job to run yours,but I was so cocky and so just
let me save you.
I didn't realize it then.
I was just trying to be helpful.
So I had too much to drink andI told her off and then I didn't
(49:33):
talk to her for a year and ahalf and she died and it was
like the guilt of that and theweight of that, and I tell the
girls that all the time, becausethey fight my daughters.
I tell them don't leave it likethat.
It's fine if you don't want totalk, take space if you guys,
you know, don't want to, butdon't leave it on bad terms,
because I'd give anything to beable to apologize to her In
(49:56):
person.
I apologize to her spirit allthe time Because I just and she
knows she's always known, youknow, her and I were 18 months
apart and I just she was alwaysa better human being than I ever
was, you know, which is awesome.
So, no, I, tony, I encourage you, I encourage any of our
listeners, to just get to apoint where you're ready to
(50:18):
explore that because you say Idon't have that, I don't feel
that, I don't hear the knock.
The knock is happening, theuniverse is knocking.
You don't have to listen, butit's there, right, because in
different ways, you know, Ithink a big part of you and your
journey of things is just alsobeing quiet enough and being
willing enough to allow thosethings to come in, which is a
(50:41):
feat in and of itself, becauseit's not pretty work, it's stuff
that is gross and nasty, but ifyou knew that you could work
through that and you could getto the other side of that and
your life is amazing and youfeel these incredible highs and
you understand what grief is andwhat that looks like, and then
also being able to help otherpeople, because, laura, you have
(51:04):
to have so many people in yourlife that are like, say more,
tell me, because it's just atopic that no one ever talks
about.
So the fact that you are willingto talk about it, the fact that
that is what drives you, thefact that that is what your
life's purpose is, and thatyou're willing to talk about all
the gross things that come outbecause of that, I mean it's
impressive to me.
Well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Sometimes I feel like I'm the downer.
Let's talk about death.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
You know, I have found my match in that because I
swear to God, like for me, Iwant to always talk about deep
things.
You know, like I have a podcastwhere I'm like let's talk about
the grossest shit you can comeup with and like the things that
are shameful and the thingsthat are fears, and you know,
all of these low vibe, grossthings that everybody has Right
(51:52):
but nobody wants to talk about.
We want to talk about thelipstick and the pretty and the
Instagram and the filters, likeall of that shit, and I'm like
that's not real life.
So I feel like I'm the bonerkiller all the time.
But I've met my match in lawbecause she's like, hey, what do
you do for a living?
Help people with grief.
You're super comfortable withit in a way that to me, I think,
is makes it approachable you.
My middle daughter always saysshe goes 10 out of 10 people die
.
I don't know why everyone's soweird about it, and I don't
either.
I think we should normalize theconversation around death in
(52:16):
all of its forms Death whereit's tragic, death where it's
suicide, death where it's drugoverdoses.
Those are all really horrible,nasty things, but that's life.
We all deal with that, and andif no one knows how to process
that and it's just keep pushingit down or pushing it back and
keep going, and keep going, andkeep going, we're robbing
ourselves of being able to liveour life to the fullest
(52:38):
expression that we can.
And so, once you know that,doesn't that make you want to go
?
okay, let me go see what that isabout no, no and so no, it's
good for you to, for you to givethat input of saying like, no,
I'm still not interested in whatyou guys are peddling here.
I'm totally interested in that.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
I love it.
But it's interesting because,as you're talking, I'm sitting
here thinking about when you'relooking like, yes, look on the
other side, it's going to be somuch more fantastic and whatever
.
I am currently living a hundreddifferent situations where I'm
exploring why I'm doingsomething, the way or I allow
people to treat me a certain wayand just be used as a doormat
(53:18):
or whatever.
But I think, especially when itcomes to the grief for me and
just every so many areas of mylife, the unknown is really
fucking scary and it doesn'tmatter that, logically, I
understand, I'm gonna feelbetter if I can stand up for
myself to this one person and belike don't fucking talk to me.
Like that it's gonna feel muchbetter because either they're
(53:41):
going to respect that or they'renot, and they're not going to
be in my life and you're betteroff either way exactly logically
, that all makes sense.
It does not happen like that.
Of course, it's easier to say,yes, I need to deal with my
grief and whatever.
Sometimes the fear of changinghow you are and what you've been
living is enough to hold youback, and I'm exploring that in
(54:04):
so many facets of my life that,yes, logically, I would love to
change this.
I don't want to be like thisanymore.
I feel the strong being insidethat I used to have in certain
situations and and not that itit was I'm overpowering people
and I'm trying to be this bullyor whatever, but just like my
(54:24):
capabilities.
But all of that fear and all ofthat childhood trauma and all
of the I don't know why I dothis oh wait, now I know I do
this.
Let's figure that out.
Sometimes that fear is muchgreater and much more powerful
than the desire and the will tochange.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's true for a lot of peopleand that you know what we're
talking about the light andstuff that is possible, but also
it takes.
It can take a whole lot to getthere.
It can be really hard andreally painful and the walking
down that dark, unknown path,the fear of that, can absolutely
(55:06):
be enough to.
I'm not going down there.
Yeah, it's debilitating.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
Well, and especially, I think, for Tony, because he's
at this place where I hope youdon't mind that I share this,
but just being willing to.
I love the eyes that he makesat me.
He's like well, you're alreadysharing it so what the fuck am I
supposed to do to stop you?
But just being willing to evenfeel any of the feelings?
So for me, for Brennan, for you, who just pushed down emotions
(55:30):
our entire life and literallyjust had a joke up until late
30s of like I'm dead inside,that's just who I am and it just
was.
I mean it's for you, for him,for me.
But even having him come downhere and be on the podcast and
having him talk about some ofthe stuff that he is and the
things that have opened up forhim, it that he is and the
(55:50):
things that have opened up forhim, it's like, oh shit.
Like every time I hear either ofyou guys, I'm so, I'm so proud
and I'm so impressed because youdo it on your own time.
That's not, that's not for meto pick.
I deal with my own shit on myown time.
But I'm impressed because it isscary work and the fear of the
unknown is can be debilitating.
I just happen to be in thisplace in my life where I'm like
I I'm not going to live in fear,that's but, but I did for so
(56:11):
long of just I don't.
That looks messy, and so we'rejust going to go this other
direction, no matter what thatother direction looks like.
So to be able to say I'm notgoing to let that run things and
I'm going to go into it God,it's scary, it's scary.
Speaker 3 (56:26):
But it's much less scary.
I think and I think you and Ihave talked about this the
support system that we have atthe office right now is grand.
Speaker 1 (56:35):
It's grand, it's grand.
Speaker 3 (56:37):
I have never, because you don't expect that at work.
Speaker 1 (56:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
And I've never really had that.
So I have.
I can talk to anybody aboutanything.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
I don't want to say, without judgment, but for the
most part, without judging you,cause I'll go talk to them right
now.
Speaker 3 (56:52):
It's funny because it's it's like the joking
judgment.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
It's not like oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
But understanding that each one of us is in a
different path.
Each one of us brings differentthings to the table.
We can learn from each other.
Some of us are twinning, someof us are not.
But I also think to that pointwhen you're scared shitless to
try to break beyond something,it makes a difference of who you
have around you.
So for me, you all are myfriends and the people I spend
(57:21):
the most time with.
So being able to say like, hey,this is what's going on, I'm
like, oh yeah, I've experiencedthat too.
If for nothing else, then Ifeel heard.
Somebody else understands whatI'm going through, I'm not alone
.
The other part of that is mytherapist, the way that she
(57:45):
speaks to me and sometimes saysfirst of all, I want to thank
you for being willing to sharethat, because there are times in
therapy I feel comfortableenough to tell her anything and
everything.
There are times that I mighttell her later than I should
have or would have, but it does.
It takes an act of strength andpower to be able to be that
(58:06):
vulnerable, because it's a lot,and there's a lot even.
You know some of the decisionsthat I've made recently, and
I've spoken to her about that,sure, and I'm like I'm, I'm so
ashamed.
I don't feel guilty.
I feel ashamed because I cansee this stuff and I'm just
barging right in like my eyeswide open and but being able to
(58:26):
have somebody who says I wantyou to know that I see somebody
who's strong and honest andgives himself to others and
helps others and does all way,in addition to having the other
support of, yeah, it's okay.
(58:50):
Yes, this is scary.
It's a lot less scary when youhave good people around.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yeah well, and we all just want to be heard and seen,
yeah, you know, in any of thestuff that we're dealing with,
and that's extremely important.
So, yeah, well, thank you guysboth for coming today.
We're running out of time, butyeah, this has been a really
important conversation and wewill definitely continue this in
the future because I thinknormalizing death and grief and
(59:18):
processing emotions and what allof that looks like is extremely
important, because you're notunique, tony, in the way that
you were raised with notprocessing emotions and why does
it feel so?
You have to feel so brave to bevulnerable and it does.
I don't disagree with you likeI have to boss up every time I
come, sit on this couch and say,oh shit, what am I going to say
today?
Because it is just, it's soincredibly vulnerable.
(59:40):
But I I have to believe thatpeople hearing that, people
understanding what otherpeople's journeys are, will help
them and maybe it sparkssomething, maybe it it's an idea
of like, oh, I didn't thinkabout doing that, or oh, that's
a resource.
Who knew that there were lovelyladies like Laura out here, who
literally deals with grief,specializing in that?
That's powerful and grief onpurpose right, that's where you
(01:00:03):
can find Laura's grief onpurpose.
That's huge.
Being intentional aboutprocessing that instead of just
letting that happen to you.
It very much goes into the youknow you're happening to life
not it's happening to you, butbe intentional about what you're
willing to to deal with foryourself.
So for that, thank you guys,both for coming on and being
vulnerable.
(01:00:23):
Um, that's our time for today.
If you have questions orsuggestions, send us an email.
Our email address is ladies atletsgetnakedpodcastcom, and then
do all the things to supportthe pod Follow, share, rate and
review and we'll catch you nexttime.
That's a wrap.
(01:00:46):
I'd love to help you getvulnerable.
Let's get naked.
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