The Mother Wound: Healing From Loss

Why do the same patterns, like trust issues or feeling not good enough, keep showing up in our lives? In this honest and emotional episode, Anne talks with Hanifa, who lost her mom at five and grew up without the support she needed. Her story shows how early wounds, especially around our mothers, can shape us for years.

Hanifa shares how she moved from asking, “Am I enough for others?” to “Are they enough for me?” and how opening up helped her heal. They talk about how we cope, like scrolling or overspending, and how to start showing ourselves more compassion.

If you’re trying to understand your own struggles or heal from the past, this episode offers comfort, insight, and hope.

This podcast dives deep into real, raw topics—think vulnerability, triggers, and childhood trauma. But just so we're super clear: I’m not a licensed therapist, mental health professional, or anything close. I’m just a human sharing stories, lessons, and life hacks based on personal experience and a whole lot of curiosity.

So, while you might find some golden nuggets here, this is not therapy and should never replace professional mental health care. If you or someone you love is going through it, please—seriously—reach out to a licensed therapist or healthcare provider. You deserve the real deal.

Need Help Now?
Here are a few amazing resources:

· 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (U.S.): Call or text 988
· NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-NAMI (6264) or nami.org/help
· Therapy Directory: psychologytoday.com
· Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741

The opinions expressed on this show are ours and ours alone—no official organizations are responsible for what we say (or how much we overshare).

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'd love to help you get vulnerable.
Let's get naked.
Hey everyone, I'm Ann.
Welcome to the let's Get Nakedpodcast, where we dive deep into
vulnerability.
In this space, we'll explorewhat triggers us, uncover the
patterns holding us back anddiscover how to take charge of
our own growth.
If you're ready to dig in, bevulnerable and face the tough

(00:30):
stuff, then buckle up.
It's time to get naked.
Today, our guest has inspired meto open up Pandora's box on
something that if you had askedme a few years ago, I would have
told you I would never be readyto tackle.
But those who know me, theyknow that I take my own advice.
So let's fix our shit.
Let's talk about our moms andthe lasting damage this complex

(00:52):
relationship causes.
I'm going to warn everybodythis is going to be a tough one
for me today, and that's okay.
Mother wounds are one of thosedeep, often unspoken scars that
shape who we are, without useven realizing it.
They don't always look the samefor everyone.
They don't always come from thetextbook abusive or neglectful

(01:15):
mothers.
Sometimes the wound is createdby a mother who is emotionally
unavailable, overly critical orjust simply trying to survive
herself and unintentionallypasses on her pain.
It can come from a mother whocouldn't see or understand you
for who you were because she wastoo consumed with her own
struggles, or from a mother who,in her attempt to protect you,

(01:39):
smothered you in such a way thatyou lost your sense of self.
The damage can happen when amother withholds affection or
praise, or maybe she was overlycontrolling and never let you
feel like you could make adecision on your own.
It can come from the loss of amother at an early age.
It's subtle in some cases andobvious in others, but
regardless of how it manifests,the wound is real and it hurts.

(02:03):
Mother wounds don't just affectchildhood.
They linger, they grow with you.
They can show up in how youhandle relationships, your own
parenting, your self-worth andyour mental and emotional health
.
For years you might not even beaware that the reason that you
can't seem to set healthyboundaries or why you always
feel like you're never enough,is because of those deeply

(02:25):
ingrained patterns that youunknowingly learned from her.
And let's be clear no one isperfect.
Mothers are human and sometimesthey wound us without intent,
simply because they were woundedthemselves.
But just because a mother mayhave been flawed or struggling
doesn't mean we should ignorethe effects of those wounds.
The impact of mother wounds canrange from deep insecurities,

(02:48):
fear of abandonment, fear offailure, trust issues,
codependency or the chronic needfor validation, to name just a
few.
The reality is, many of us arewalking around with these scars
and yet we don't evenacknowledge the source or the
depth of the pain.
Healing these wounds isabsolutely necessary for us to

(03:09):
be our healthiest, mostauthentic selves.
You can't move forward in lifeif you keep carrying the baggage
of someone else's hurtfulbehaviors.
You can't keep repeating thesame patterns that you didn't
even choose.
But those patterns wereingrained in you and until you
heal, you're bound to pass themalong.
Healing these wounds isn't easy.

(03:30):
It's often painful.
It takes a willingness toconfront the feelings we might
have buried for years.
It takes self-compassion,patience and sometimes a lot of
therapy.
It involves learning to motheryourself, to give yourself the
love and nurturing you might nothave received when you were
younger.
To heal these wounds is toreclaim your power.

(03:51):
It's to free yourself from thebelief that you're broken or not
enough.
It's about not letting someoneelse's inability to give you
what you needed define yourentire future.
It's about looking at the womanwho raised you, acknowledging
her limitations and her ownwounds and then finding the

(04:12):
courage to let go of the thingsshe wasn't able to give you.
It's about learning to be wholenot perfect and stepping into
your own power.
Healing your mother wounds isone of the most important things
you can do in this lifetime.
Don't avoid it, don't pretendit's not there.
Don't let your past determineyour future.

(04:32):
Do the work, confront the hurtand rise above.
You deserve to be the best,healthiest version of yourself,
and you can't get there withoutacknowledging the impact of
those wounds and taking thesteps to heal them.
Today, we're stripping it offwith Hanifa.
I met Hanifa recently at one ofMel June's amazing and powerful

(04:55):
women's supper clubs dinnersand I'm super happy to have you.
Welcome, hanifa.
Thank you for having meAbsolutely absolutely to have
you.
Welcome, hanifa.
Thank you for having me,absolutely absolutely.
So I would love for you to juststart by maybe giving a little
bit of a background on kind of alittle bit of your story or,
you know, just kind of anoverview of your childhood.

(05:15):
I think we've talked aboutpreviously that your childhood
is where all of the ingredientscome from for your recipe and
that's what's fascinating andkind of we can break it down
from there, so maybe you cantell us a little bit about that
sure, um.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
So I was born in Uganda, which is eastern Africa,
um, and from what I remember, Ihad an amazing childhood, um,
and that all kind of changedwhen I was five years old, when
my mother passed away and I wassick, so I had to move to the

(05:54):
States for, you know, justbetter health care, and I left
my two sisters behind.
Like my dad was travelingbetween Africa and here, so I
lived with like my aunt anduncle and, um, yeah, everything
just kind of went from like okay, like I have like a happy
family, to just like I'm in anew country with like people I

(06:17):
don't necessarily know, um, andthat's how I got here, um,
that's pretty pretty wild tothink about, at five years old,
that that would be yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
May I ask how your mother passed?

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah.
So, um, I don't really know thedetails because my family
doesn't really ever talk aboutit.
I have a typical, like Africanfamily who just kind of are like
they're very professional andjust never talk about emotions
ever.
But from what I know, she had,um an immune issue, that um, and
she was actually approved forher visa to come here and she

(06:55):
passed away like a month beforewe were both scheduled to come
to the states.
So it was very it was it wasunexpected, um, even though,
like we knew she was sick, wejust weren't expecting her to
pass like right before you havetwo sisters, you said yeah, so I

(07:15):
have, um, one biological sisterand then I have a step sister,
but, um, my two, um oldersisters also passed away when I
was younger.
So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there's been a lot of lossI've gone through in my life.
Um, yeah, like one of mysisters like I remember it

(07:39):
clearly, even though I was soyoung um, we were at recess and
we're just playing like ringaround the rosies and she had
asthma and she fell and had anasthma attack and like I don't
remember like feeling anyemotion about it at the time,
just because I was just like Idon't know what happened, like
one day she's here and one dayshe's not.

(08:01):
And then my other sister justgot like really, really sick.
I think she had pneumonia.
My dad like took her to thehospital like overnight and like
the next morning he had.
I was like oh, where's you knowwhere's my sister, and he was
like, oh, she passed away.
And that was kind of the lasttime we ever spoke about her.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
I'm speechless.
It takes a lot to make mespeechless.
How old were you when that,when those things, when, when
those occurrences happened?

Speaker 2 (08:30):
um, probably like three, from what I remember.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
I was like really, really young and they, okay,
they were older than you.
How old were they?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
um, they were like a couple years older than me, so I
was the youngest Wow.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, are you still close with your dad?
He's in the United States now.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, I talk to him every single day.
He gets sick of me sometimes.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Well, that's okay, that's okay.
But you have the family thatdoesn't speak about anything
either.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, and I mean my dad still doesn't really talk
about things.
He's gone through a lot and Ithink I've pushed him to talk
about things so he's improvedtremendously.
Like, I give him all the credit, but it's still really tough
for him.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
I can't even imagine, yeah, the loss of a child is.
I just can't even get my headaround that.
And then for you to have losttwo of your sisters and your mom
on top of that, yeah.
And then, when you came to theStates, you lived with an aunt,
yeah, an uncle.
Yeah, did you know them priorto coming here.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
I didn't think I did, but I guess, like I like went
to their house for like asleepover with like my cousins
when I was little, so but when Icame here I didn't know them.
Yeah, but it's my dad's brotherand his wife.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Did your dad stay with them as well?
He was back and forth, and soit was just you that was staying
there.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, I, he stayed for a little bit but then he,
you know, had to travel backhome to Uganda to like kind of
take care of the rest of thefamily, because he had left my
older sister there and he wasjust kind of scrambling to
figure out, like, which countryto be in.
And yeah, there was a lot ofback and forth, um traveling,
and like years without seeinghim sometimes wow, that's

(10:15):
incredible to me.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Are you close with your sisters still?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
that's excellent.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, tell me about kind of your process with that.
That's a big life event tounpack.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
I'm assuming you obviously are aware of how that
has affected your entire life asa child, as a woman, as all of
the things.
What does that look like, to beable to kind of unpack that and
heal yourself from that?

Speaker 2 (10:45):
yeah, so overall, like years and years of therapy
to be honest with you, no,absolutely um, and I've always
like when I was younger, I usedto be like a very like lively
child.
Um, I just like I got everythingI wanted, kind of because I was
the youngest, but then alsolike I was very sick so my

(11:05):
parents would just give meeverything because they truly
didn't know if I would like livelong enough.
So, like um, it just like,basically like when I came to
the states, I was just I becamelike very quiet and withdrawn
and just like didn't want tobother anyone with anything and
like I didn't know it forprobably like two decades.

(11:27):
That um, that was just like thetrauma of everything I had gone
through in such a short periodof time.
So I just kind of like keptmyself a lot really quiet, um,
until I think I think it was myelementary school teacher who
was like you know, she shouldprobably like see someone like
she seems like she's a good kid,but she's very, very quiet.

(11:48):
And that's when I startedtherapy and I was just like, oh,
this is just showed up that Iwas like huh, maybe I should
address that and like maybe likedig into why I feel the way I

(12:13):
feel and why I'm sad.
I was just kind of like this iswho I am, like it's fine, but
it was all just like me packingdown my emotions over the years.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Did you have a point where you came to where it was
like for me?
I did the same thing, right, Ipushed everything down.
It's fine, I'm fine,everything's fine Until it
wasn't.
You know, did you havesomething similar where you kind
of realized like I really needto deal with this, or was it?

Speaker 2 (12:43):
just kind of more of an ongoing process for you.
Yeah, it was probably likejunior year of college where I
was just like really stressedout about school, just like my
relationship with my fatherwasn't the best at that time,
just because I was frustratedthat he wouldn't talk about
anything ever and I just becamelike really depressed and

(13:04):
anxious and like it just it tookme, like self-admitting myself,
to like a mental hospital.
It wasn't for a long period oftime, only like a week, sure,
but then you know, that's whenthey were like oh, you might be
like depressed and, you know,offered medications.
I don't, I'm not a medicineperson, so I was like no, I just

(13:26):
need to like really dig intothis through therapy yeah, is
that when you really starteddoing therapy kind?

Speaker 1 (13:33):
of more heavily and and unpacking that yeah, yeah,
definitely.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
just because it it was like a few like dark um
years, I was just like reallyreally depressed and like
borderline suicidal and I justcouldn't figure out why.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Who was your support during that time?
Or did you feel like you wereby yourself?
Right, If you?
Have family that doesn't wantto talk about things, right, I
think about that with any topic,when you have families that
aren't really interested inbeing the warriors of, like,
let's unpack the emotions, let'sunpack things, you kind of feel
like you're on an island byyourself which is also isolating

(14:11):
and scary right who was therefor you during that time, or
what do you remember as far?

Speaker 2 (14:16):
as your tools that you used that's probably like
the lonely loneliest I've everfelt, ever and like I've always
talked to my friends about myfeelings but I wouldn't say that
I had like one person that Iwent to, which made it even
tougher.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, yeah.
When you're feeling sodepressed and suicidal and like
just hopeless, that's a that's areally terrible place to be.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Okay, so you started going through therapy and
unpacking all of the things Okayso you started going through
therapy and unpacking all of thethings.
What does that look like?
As far as just, I feel like alot of the things that happen,
like that or other traumaticlosses that you have a lot of
grief to unpack with.
I think we go through a lot oflike.
This isn't fair right.
Why did I get dealt this hand?

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Right, exactly Right.
Yeah, that's exactly what itfelt like.
It just like felt like okay,like some people like lose their
mother, you know, but it's likeit just felt like one thing
after the other where it waslike, okay, I have these health
issues I have to deal with, Ihave the loss of my mom, I have
like your everyday like mid,mid-teen, mid-20s, like life

(15:26):
issues where it was just likeoverwhelming and I felt like,
okay, I'm the only one who likegoes through these issues.
But then I started readingcertain books, like the subtle
art of not giving up.
Yes, yes, really good one, yeah,I love that one um, and then
the obstacle is the way and thebody keeps score.

(15:47):
That's a great one, yes, yeah.
So just like just a lot ofreading and just like, okay,
yeah, this is not the best hand,like I've.
Definitely I give myself creditfor like being where I am today
, yes, but also those comfortand like, okay, other people
have gone through similar thingsand I can use their stories as

(16:08):
inspiration right, that's whatdrives the podcast, because I
think we do get into theseisolating places where it's oh,
my god, you know what is thishand that I'm playing right now?

Speaker 1 (16:21):
you know, and it does it seems like this is so tough
and this is so unfair becauseyou're, like you said, you're
trying to navigate your mid 20sand early 20s, and what does
that look like?
on top of processing all of thisloss so that you're not
dragging that around like awrecking ball, right, you know,
for our listeners I was.
I was telling Hanifa before westarted that she inspired me to

(16:43):
really kind of have thisconversation.
Hanifa has a big story and sothere's lots of different
components that we could havetalked about, but the mother
wound being something that Ithink is so important, and I had
said in the beginning, this issomething that I never really
felt like I was going tonavigate.
And when I was reading yourquestionnaire and your answers
to things and I and it just feltso selfish of me to not be

(17:11):
willing to unpack mine when youdidn't even have your mom since
you were five, you know, I lookat some of the stuff that I had
with my mom and it's like, okay,I was dealt that or that.
And again, if you really showsomeone grace and know that she
just did the best that she could, she was just bringing in her
pain and her hurt and her traumathat she hadn't processed right
and passing that down, whichI've then in turn passed down to

(17:33):
my daughters, which is terrible, right.
So I'm trying I'm in thismiddle place of trying to heal
that in myself as well.
As if you come from a familythat doesn't really speak about
emotions or other things, youknow, and also you can't force
other people to heal, right, youknow that's on their time or if
that's something that theychoose.
But I just felt in reading thatthat like how could I not be

(17:56):
willing to talk about that orlook at that?

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Right.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Because you didn't have that.
So you obviously have adifferent mother wound, right
from her not being around.
Mine, you know, stems fromdifferent things, but I just
don't think I realized how muchof the hurt and the pain and the
trauma comes from our mom, orlack thereof, or maybe someone

(18:20):
that filled a mom role for you,right?
You know, you mentionedsomething about, you know,
having being in a place where,yes, it was your aunt and your
uncle, but you didn't know them.
You know, I can't even imagineat five, like, okay, here you go
.
Now these people are going totake care of you.
You know, did they have kids aswell?
What did that look like growingup?

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, so they had four kids, so all boys, which
was, yeah, I went from being youknow.
People ask me like are you theyoungest or are you the oldest?
And it's like I'm kind of both,like I went from being the
youngest, you know, out of allgirls to being the oldest out of
all boys.

(18:59):
So, like I just to this day likethey're still my brothers, like
I talk to them and care aboutthem like they're my brothers.
But I think, similarly, like myaunt kind of had her own issues
and you know I had mentionedthat they weren't necessarily
thrilled to have me there, sure,just because I don't think they

(19:19):
were expecting that I wouldlive with them and they would be
caring for this sick child.
So in a way, yeah, I see thethings they were going through,
but like it wasn't.
I didn't have the bestrelationship with her really
until probably like when I was28, and she apologized for how
she treated me and just like youknow, you have to know that

(19:45):
someone's trying their best,like you said, but at the same
time, like it just it left mewith like a lot of like lack of
self-confidence.
Yes, and that's why I realized,like that's why I never spoke
up, because, like, if I was sad,it was just like oh, stop being
sad.
You know it was never like oh,why are you sad?
And the one time I did say likereally like sad about like

(20:17):
losing my mom, it was just kindof like dismissed.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
So yeah, it's like.
So there's someone that filledthe role, but it wasn't the best
person, right?
Well, and, like you said, likehow incredible that is that she
was able to apologize to you andtake accountability for that.
But when you look at that inthat you know the mother role of
they're just doing the bestthat they can.
I try to explain that to mydaughters because I'm trying to
at this point kind of bridgethis gap during my healing
journey of I want them to beable to heal mostly from the

(20:42):
trauma that I caused because Ididn't know better.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
If we know better we can do better.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
if we know better, we can do better.
But being able to just show mymom grace right to her and in
myself, in just my dealings andmy thoughts and how I'm
processing anything that shekind of brought to the table.
Just being able to show hergrace that she was just doing
the best that she could ispretty powerful stuff, and so

(21:06):
for your aunt to be able toapologize to you, that has to be
a huge feeling of awesomenessto be able to just have that.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, it was, but it was still like.
You know you can go through allthese things, but to like treat
a child that way, you know youstill have to kind of give
yourself grace and you know youcan understand.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
But also, like, your points are still valid too no
doubt, no doubt, it doesn't takeaway the pain that happened
during that time right, itdoesn't like okay, now we're
just going to brush this underthe rug because you apologized,
it's still all there right um,tell me about your kind of your
healing journey in general, justfor um kind of where you are in

(21:50):
that you know, I think I thinkfor those of us kind of on this
path of being willing to unpackand look at the things that are
not great you know, I look atsome of the stuff and now I'm
getting more intimately familiarwith where did that come from?
why do I feel that way?
For me, I'm a very visualperson and I really want to know
.
Why do I feel that way?
You know, and I I'm a veryvisual person and I really want

(22:10):
to know.
Why do I feel that way?
You know, and I had had some,some really big struggles with
trying to figure out some of the, some of the validation things
that I felt like I needed, youknow, and it when I was a child
I didn't get praise for things.
I didn't have my parents tellme that they were proud of me,
and I and I have gone back since, in more recent years, just in

(22:31):
the last couple of years, andjust had that conversation about
do you guys remember telling methat you were proud of me, and
my mom said to me no, we didn't,because we didn't want to give
you a big head Like didn't.
And I'm thinking it's terrible.
Again, not on.
She's just doing the best thatshe can.
But I look at that for a childin the same way of like as she's
just doing the best that shecan.
But I look at that for a childin the same way of like as a

(22:51):
child not hearing from yourparents, who really that's who
you're wanting validation fromLike look what I did, look what
I did, and for them to notreally acknowledge that or to
make you feel that they're proudof you.
It makes perfect sense.
So when I listen to that, itmakes perfect sense to hear that
for how that affected me.
But it also makes perfect senseto explain some of the things

(23:11):
about my mom and kind of herupbringing and that that was
something that wasn't offered toher either by her parents, um,
and that she thought that shewas doing the right thing by
doing that.
Right, we're just passing downall of this trauma, right, which
is outrageous to me right um,but you know, during your along
your healing journey for things,what are some of the things

(23:31):
that you've found that kind ofcame from, you know, not having
your mom around or having youraunt kind of be this fill in,
that really wasn't all thatinvested in really loving on you
and helping you heal from thistraumatic thing that happened.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, honestly, now that you say that it's like, did
we have the same childhood?
It's true, though, right, it'scrazy.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
It is, and it's crazy because it's like you know, we
talk about this mother wound andwe talk about okay, my mom was
there the whole time.
But my mom was someone that Idid not get along well with from
early on, right, she just hadvery different views on things
that went against everythingthat I believed in my, in my
core.

(24:12):
Nothing wrong with that, but asa child it felt very confusing
to me because it was like, well,this is what I feel like and
this is what you're trying topush on me and that doesn't feel
right.
But then when you look at all ofthese things where you don't
feel good enough, like you're,you know, like you're enough,
you don't feel like thevalidation component of it.
You don't feel, and for me I'mfinding that as a common thread

(24:33):
between women, as we're talkingabout stuff Right, and this
mother wound for me is a newconcept that again just hit me
like a ton of bricks yesterday.
So welcome to the shit show,because I'm like, oh my God, are
we unpacking this on today'sepisode?

Speaker 2 (24:46):
But I guess we are.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
So, but I want to because for me, you know, part
of what was in my intro wastalking about if you don't heal
from that, you're not going tobe able to be in your most
authentic power.
And that's the mission that I'mon, and being able to do that
for myself, for my daughters,for my mother, for my friends,
for people that I come across,and so it makes me eager to do

(25:09):
the work, even though I'm like,oh my God, I don't want to.
But what are the things thatyou said Like, did we have the
same childhood?
What resonated with you in that?
Or what do you feel like?
Was issues that you had to dealwith.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah.
So it's like I went from beinga child to being an adult like
very, very, very quickly andlike at home, growing up, like I
would do the chores, like Iwould help take care of the kids
, like I would basically be asecond mother, and it just never
felt like I had a childhood.

(25:39):
And even though I was doingwell in school, like excelling
and, you know, helping out athome, it's just I never got a
thank you, ever and like ever so, and it just it left me with
this feeling of like not feelinglike I'm good enough, or maybe
like I'm always doing somethingwrong, which has manifested into

(26:02):
, like, my relationships, myprofessional life, like my
relationship with other people.
For the longest time.
I just felt like I was nevergood enough.
No, how hard I tried.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
So that's still something I'm working on, yeah
yeah, because it's not just likeoh, I realize that now I'm
going to throw that out it'slike right those things are
deep-rooted.
I mean they really if youpicture roots that just go into
all the areas of your life thoseare kind of wounds that really
spider into everything, which isterrible to try to then bring
out because it comes up in themost inopportune times.

(26:36):
I find right when somethinghits me like a ton of bricks,
where I'm like where the hell?

Speaker 2 (26:40):
did that come from.
You know, and for me.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
I've made this commitment to stay open, which
means for me, when emotions comeup, I'm going to feel them.
You know, I don't know how whatyour relationship with your
emotions has been, but mine hasbeen a later in life thing where
it hit me like a ton of brickseight years ago where I decided
it was time to kind of unpackthat I had a life event that

(27:02):
changed things for me.
I also lost a sister, but thatreally sent me over the edge
with my drinking and all of thethings that happened.
And so for me I had to starthaving a relationship with my
emotions instead of just pushingthem down.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Exactly, and I hate it and I love it, and so it's
one of the things where it'slike this is the best, worst
thing ever.
Right.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Because you do start unpacking some of those things
where it does manifest intoother ways, and for me, I want
to be the best version of myselfthat I can.
And I can't do that if I'mdragging this whole wrecking
ball of unprocessed emotionsaround behind me.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Right.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
And a lot of that does stem from my mom.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, exactly so.
Like I think for me that wastherapy and I hated my therapist
when I initially I was like youknow, she would just ask me
questions that just seemed likethey came out of left field,
like I like, and looking back itwas just like my defense

(28:02):
mechanism like, oh, I don't wantto talk about that, we're not.
You know, that's in the wayback right part of my memory.
Like what, why are you evenbringing it up?
And I was.
I would almost get angry at herfor asking these things, but
then she would say you know justwhy?
Don't you just sit with that?
You don't have to answer me now, just sit with it.
And um, I would literally sitwith it for a week until our

(28:23):
next appointment, if I didn'tcancel to avoid talking about it
, and it just took a lot ofreflecting, um, also in my
mid-20s, just sitting down andthinking like okay, why do I
feel like this?
Like stiff pit in my stomach of, like I don't even know how to
describe it like it just feltlike I was always uncomfortable,

(28:46):
like always like unhappy, andor it would just be like in a
relationship like why did I, youknow, react that way?
Why did I not speak up formyself?
Or you know, just like tryingliterally sitting down and
thinking like why do I feel thisway, instead of just like
pushing it off?
Um, so it really like wasprobably in my relationship

(29:11):
where I'm like huh, like okay,I'm always willing to like be a
good person to this person andlike do everything, but I don't
necessarily like feel respected.
Why is that and it literallytook just me sitting down and
like over a year I meant tobreak up with this person but
like it literally took that longfor me to figure that out.

(29:33):
And then, after that point, likeeverything almost changed.
I was like, oh, I'm like I'mactually happier now that I've
addressed that feeling and Iknow where it's coming from now,
right.
And I just kind of starteddoing that with everything, like
with my career, my relationshipwith my dad, um, my
relationship with my friends,and just kind of like asking.

(29:54):
I used to ask like, oh, is thisperson, am I good enough for
this person?
But I started asking like isthis person good enough for me?

Speaker 1 (30:00):
yes, yes, that's a huge perspective shift yeah and
I think, so many people.
If you actually really getcurious about which way they see
things because I was talkingwith someone else a couple of
days ago that was doing the samething it was am I good enough
for this person?
It's like why would that be theway that you came from?
And I'm not coming at you injudgment because I did the same

(30:20):
thing to you.
You know it was like we all dothat, but it's like when you,
when you say it out loud or whenyou talk about it, it's like,
well, well, of course you shouldbe asking if that person is
good enough for you.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
But when you?

Speaker 1 (30:29):
have this trauma, this unhealed trauma that you're
dragging around.
You come from this other placeand you do manifest this into
relationships that aren'thealthy for you, that your body
is telling you this isn't right,this isn't right, this isn't
right but we'll stay in.
You had a year of your life ofjust this doesn't feel right.
This is why you have theanxiety.
This is why you have the pit inyour stomach, but you're not at

(30:50):
a place where you can speakyour truth and really kind of
take care of Hanifa, which isthe only person on this planet
that you've been given to takecare of.
We always consider otherpeople's feelings first of like.
Well, I don't want to do this,I don't want to do that, and
instead we disappoint ourselves.
And to me, I understand theother side of that coin now and
I I understand the other side ofthat coin now and I just want

(31:10):
to tell everybody like no we'renot supposed to do this.
People pleasing, like staying insomething that doesn't feel
right.
Sit with it, listen.
Listen to your body.
You know we've gotten so faraway from sitting with it when
you say that I'm so proud of youfor doing that work because
sitting with it is notcomfortable.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
No, it's not.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's not, it's like, yeah, again the worst, best
thing that you could possibly do.
But when you realize that theawesome sauce lives on the other
side of doing that work for me,it's like all right, we're
sitting.
Well, now we're talking aboutmy mom today you know, and I
dive into it because I I don'twant those things that hold me
back because I wasn't willing todo the work.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Now I understand what the work is.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Now I understand that when my body speaks, and listen
right, I can hear it at awhisper Now, I don't have to sit
with it to see what it's tryingto tell me.
I know instantly what it'strying to tell me and I react
because I know that.
Like you said, when you wereable to speak your truth, when
you were able to change thatperspective, when you were able
to say not is this person or amI good enough for this person,

(32:10):
but is this person or am I goodenough for this person, but is
this person good enough for me,and make your decisions
accordingly how much better youfeel in your body, right like.
Didn't that open everything upfor you as?

Speaker 2 (32:17):
far as a hundred percent, yeah, and it almost
like felt like I was going backto like that little girl I used
to be before everything happened.
So it's, it was the best thingever.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
I'm so happy you said that because I feel the exact
same right I have some stuffthat happened in my life that I
I call it like the innocence ofof Ann right you lost your
innocence when you startedlosing sisters and your mom and
like that's to me, that's anearly age to lose your innocence
.
But when you can go back tothat from this age and and like
heal, some of that damage, healsome of that be there for that

(32:53):
three or five year old Hanifa.
That really had such a huge loss.
That left a gaping hole in yourlife, right, but when you're
able to heal that and go forwardwith your work, I think that's
powerful stuff you know, and forpeople to realize you're
sitting here saying like I wasnot happy obviously before I was
able, happy obviously before Iwas able to make that
perspective shift.
I was able to do that and, yes,it was work, but now I feel more

(33:16):
in tune with myself and I don'thave all of these things that
kind of go into that.
Yeah, the other thing that Ihear you say is you know, when
you did that first thing, itmakes the second thing easier
and the next thing easier, right?
Because then you have have somedata points.
I call those data points whereyou're like, okay, I did that
and I feel, so much better.
You don't have to necessarilylisten into that brain that's
telling you like you're notenough or is right.

(33:38):
That's a.
That's a not a good tool whenwe let our minds get completely
out of control and I believethat the majority of people have
let their minds run amok.
No, no judging, because I wasin the same place where it was
like why can I?
not get this thing to shut up,where it would tell me you're
not good enough.
You're all of those nasty,horrible things it's like.

(33:59):
Why would I do that youwouldn't allow someone else to
talk to you?
That?

Speaker 2 (34:01):
way Exactly Right.
So why?

Speaker 1 (34:03):
in the world would you let that girl live rent free
?

Speaker 2 (34:05):
in your head.
Yeah, and I think somethingthat really helped me was a
quote.
That's like you know, would youtalk to a friend the way you
talk to yourself?
And that really just changedeverything for me, because you
know I would do, I would makelike a minor mistake and be like
, oh my god, you're so dumb andlike, well, it's like I would
never say that to one of my bestfriends ever like you tried
your best, you know.

(34:26):
And I began talking to myselflike that and I felt like a
crazy person.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
I'm so glad you said that, because I'm the same way.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
I was like I literally feel like a lunatic
because I'm like it's okay andthat was okay.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
But we are, we're the hardest people in ourselves and
when you can actually changethe narrative of how you speak
to yourself, because words haveweight.
Right.
Thoughts have weight, and so ifyou're constantly doing that to
yourself, instead of sayingyou've got this, we can get
through this you know, speakingpositive to yourself and showing
yourself grace for all of thedifferent things that you've
made it through.

(34:57):
It's a powerful shift.
It is.
Yes, it makes me want to screamit from the rooftops because I
want other people to know youcan have the other side of that.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Right.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
And it does take work and figuring out.
You can have the other side ofthat Right and it does take work
and figuring out sitting withthings.
You know we're in a society nowof so much numbing.
We have all of these thingsthat we can numb with and not be
present with our feelings andour emotions, Right when it just
turns us kind of into zombies alittle bit, where it's.
You know, you're in this rinselather repeat cycle of just not
being good to yourself, mentally, not taking care of yourself,

(35:30):
but just kind of grittingthrough everything.
And I'm here to tell everyoneit doesn't have to be like that.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Right, it doesn't.
And I think the biggest thingnow is social media.
Right, it's just like it's soeasy to distract and just like
scroll for hours and I used tomeditate a ton.
I don't, I say I don't havetime for it, but I have to make
time.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yes, yes, I understand, it's a struggle.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, but I follow this guy and I bought his book.
I can't remember the title, buthe was like so you scroll and
he's like, hey, why don't youjust take a moment?
And he literally forces you tomeditate for three minutes or
however long the clip is andjust sit with it.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, meditate for three minutes or however long
the clip is and just sit with it.
Yeah, yeah, it's powerful.
What other tools do you feellike you've used or that have
been impactful for you?
Kind of, as you've starteddoing this, you know you get to
the point of is that person goodenough for me and that feels
good?
You throw up a data point forthat.
What are some of the otherthings that you were able to
kind of say oh, that doesn'tmake sense for me, I'm throwing
that out yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
So basically having the hard discussions, um like
having the difficultconversation with my dad, like I
remember I like one day I wasjust like sitting there and I
was just like so mad and I waslike why does he ever talk about
it?
Like this was like his wife andyou know these were his
daughters, and like I'm upsetabout it.
Why isn't he?

(36:51):
So I literally just called himand it was almost like a
confrontation of like you know,do you really like do you
realize what impact this has hadon our lives?
And I remember it like it wasyesterday and he just like broke
down in tears and he's like youknow, that was the love of my
life.
I'll never, he's like,remarried, but he's like I'll

(37:12):
never love anyone as much as Iloved your mother.
She was my soulmate.
She was always there for me.
Like you remind me so much ofher and she was just like very
patient and loving and like andyour sister's like you can't.
You know heal from losing yourchildren.
You know heal from losing yourchildren.

(37:34):
You just can't.
And I'm like I understand thatand he's like I just I have to
be the mother and the father.
I have to provide.
I have to be the strong person.
That's why I never talked aboutit and that just opened up like
this gate of communicationbetween him and I and I was
always waiting for him to havethat conversation.
My therapist is like you know.
You might have to be the one tohave that, but I was upset

(37:54):
because I was like I'm the child, like why should I have that
conversation?

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Right.
Why should I have to initiate?

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Right, exactly.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
But looking back, you're so happy that you did.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Oh, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
I think that's a really huge lesson is being
willing to have the hardconversations, because if you
have expectations that someoneelse is going to do that, you're
just wasting your life away,just waiting for something to
happen that he's probably wouldhave gone his whole entire life
without doing that, because hethought he was doing the right
thing by not talking about it bynot bringing it up right and

(38:26):
him.
Having that extra layer ofthat's really hard for him
because you remind him of yourmom yeah, that's a huge yeah,
that's a huge thing.
But also when you can understandthat, that gives you a whole
different perspective where youcan say, like I hadn't thought
about that before.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, it really like allowed me to reflect, like I
remember one time I was justlike playing around with a wig,
I found and I put it on and Iwas like daddy look, and he just
, you know, sobbed and I don'tknow why and he was like that
day you put that on, youliterally looked exactly like
her and it was difficult and um,yeah, but I think there's power

(39:01):
in like how can someone knowyou feel that way if you don't
let them know that you feel thatway?
So all this time he thought Iwas fine, you know he's like you
.
Always you did well in school,you're a good child, like you
always seemed fine to me and Ijust never knew that you felt
this way isn't that crazy.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
We're all going through this life and everyone's
just like trying to hold ittogether and be fine and not be
a burden on anyone else and sowe don't connect right right and
you being vulnerable enough tosay, hey, really sparked and
opened something, because I I'massuming you would tell me, if I
asked you, that you wouldn'thave the relationship with your
dad, that you do today a hundredpercent been strong enough to

(39:42):
have that conversation becauseit does really open the doors.
I've recently, in the last year,started asking my parents some
questions about kind of how theywere raised and listening to
their answers for things it wasreally powerful.
You know, my mom had written mea letter that I found within the

(40:06):
last couple of weeks because Imoved and at my first marriage
she had purchased the weddingdress that I used.
So my first marriage I was likewho knows, I married some guy,
that's not the important part.

(40:27):
There's some dude, there's twoof them I mean it's not a big
long list, but, um, there wasthe first one and then there's
the one, but, uh, but she hadthe wedding dress and she sold
it and she didn't ask me aboutit and she didn't tell me about
it and I remember having so muchanger in my heart for her about
doing that and I look back nowand it seems like such a silly

(40:47):
thing.
But I read this letter that Ihad even forgotten that she had
sent me, however, many years ago, and it talked about how she
was so sorry for doing that butshe needed the money.
So bad like they were just insuch a bad way and it made me
feel like an asshole for everbeing mad at her but if we had
been vulnerable enough to havethose conversations, obviously
we didn't have that relationshipback then.

(41:08):
Yeah, but, I, just thought wowlike if we can connect in
vulnerability, of saying this iswhere I'm at.
I'm really struggling like Ineed.
I need to do this because if Ididn't have the money to give
her, I would have been able tosay, like I totally understand,
sell it.
I'm sorry that you're in thatposition, or?
Or whatever, but you would havebeen able to show some grace.
So it's interesting to me thatwe're all just trying to be

(41:31):
strong hold it together, butreally where the, the awesome
sauce, lives is in theconnections right in the
vulnerability in the saying thehard things and saying like this
is how I feel, crying with eachother, or really showing each
other the underside, or so thatyou could see the other
perspective.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Right, I just think that's so powerful.
A hundred percent like lettingpeople in.
Yeah, and that's like aconversation I had with my
boyfriend after our probablylike second date, it's like
listen.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
I love that.
I love that Now Hanifa hasfound her voice and she is not
messing around.
Here's how it's going to godown like that.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yeah, I was like this is what I'm expecting, like and
I'm not trying to be harsh, Ijust like, if you're not what
I'm looking for, like I'd ratherknow now.
I love that yeah, just like, ifyou're not what I'm looking for
, like I'd rather know.
Now I love that.
Yeah, and he was just like heappreciated it and I was like,
okay, it really I had to sitthere and say, you know, if he
doesn't, then he's not the one,absolutely he's not the one for
me.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Speak your truth right because then at least you
know, and it doesn't matter ifyou're single or with somebody
or whatever, but your truth isspoken and you're able to say
like are, are you good enoughfor me?

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Right, exactly that's powerful.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
I had that same conversation with my husband a
lot of years ago, decades agobecause my first marriage was
such a complete shit show that Iwent into that with.
I'm not messing around.
Here are the things that I willnot accept.
Here are the things that I willaccept, and it's like that's
important stuff, to be able tospeak our truths in that right,

(43:04):
yeah, but like you said, itinvolves, you know, being open
and letting that person in, yeah, so yeah, what is something
that like an unexpected maybe,if you can think of an
unexpected result of you beingvulnerable, because I will say
that for me, I used to thinkvulnerability was weakness.

(43:24):
As I've gotten further in myjourney and in more recent years
, really understanding howimportant emotions are and that
they're supposed to be used likea compass, you know, and you're
supposed to be listening tothem.
I've never been disappointedwhen I lead with vulnerability,
which is lovely.
Have you ever had kind of anunexpected result of you leading

(43:45):
with vulnerability, or have you?
What is your experience kind ofwith vulnerability in general?

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah, I've always thought that, you know, if I
tell someone how I feel or if Isay, hey, I'm like a little sad,
today they're they're it'sgoing to push them away and
they're not going to want to bearound me or like see me as
being weak.
But it's been quite theopposite.
You know, like it's made mekind of like weed out people

(44:12):
that shouldn't be in my life,because it's made me realize,
okay, I care more about thisperson than they care about me
and it's made my connectionswith the people who are in my
life even stronger.
Yes, yeah.
So it's done quite the oppositeof what I initially thought it
would do, right.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Which is crazy, right , and I think that that's part
of what holds a lot of peopleback is they think that they're
going to put themselves outthere and they're either going
to be rejected or not receivedwell or whatever.
And again, I will say, 100% ofthe times that I have led with
vulnerability.
I've been pleasantly surprisedby what I get back, because when
you do that, you give otherpeople permission to do the same

(44:49):
, and then they're able to feelbetter and process things and
things that they felt that theyhad to keep everything held
together with they realize Idon't have to do that I also can
feel my emotions and share thisvulnerability and the
connections that you have withpeople that you're able to share
with.
Yeah, To me that's huge.
Yeah, that's.
That's way better than just thesurface level.

(45:11):
Like I'm going to keep ittogether and not tell someone
that I'm sad because I don'twant them to think I'm a burden
or you know that I'm not goodenough for them.
Like step into your authenticpower right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
So that's been the strong like the biggest thing
for me, um is it's helped myrelationships with people in my
life and even strangers likeit's true yeah, yeah.
Like when I tell you I wasterrified to like come on here.
Initially I was like, oh my god, like I'm telling, like
everyone like my business, butyou know my boyfriend like yeah,

(45:41):
but you know my boyfriend waslike well, you know you might
help someone else who had gonethrough the same exact thing.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, and you know I'm like okay, like that, that
makes sense yeah, it'sinteresting to me because, as
I've started doing this podcast,which again very interesting
how the universe works and thebig guy works and getting you
queued up to do whatever.
But as I've started doing thisand episodes are going out,
people reach out to me every dayand tell me what a big impact

(46:08):
something had that they heardfrom a guest or that something
that I said that was able to.
They were able to get curiousabout their own issues, and so I
look at that and I think, ifthis affects one person, if, if
somebody is able to say like wow, maybe I should get you know,
go all in on figuring out whatthat looks like or hearing us
talk about how amazing it iswhen you wake up and you say you

(46:30):
switch that perspective of issomebody good enough for me,
rather than the opposite.
Just listening to us talk aboutthis stuff is like okay get
curious about those things foryourself, because you can be on
the other side of that and, yes,it's always work.
But I think we get to thisplace where we kind of are able
to get through the biggest pileof stuff, and then it's, you

(46:50):
know, kind of residual orwhatever is coming up.
Life is always going to be hard,there's always going to be
things that come up, but justbeing able to not have a
wrecking ball that kind offollows around behind you,
leaving havoc in your wake rightwhich is what it does.
I think, or what I've found inmy life, that it did because I
wasn't willing to be vulnerable,I wasn't willing to share

(47:11):
emotions, and now I just sharethem, and I do share them with
strangers or whoever it comes upwith and I always thought, God,
that's so messy and it's likemaybe, but it's where I feel my
most authentic.
It's where I feel my authenticpower is being able to really be
the person that says this iswhat I'm feeling, this is what
I'm going through and theconnections that come from that

(47:34):
is that's powerful yeah ashumans.
We just want that.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
We want that connection exactly, and I will
say, like one of the maindrivers was, I did listen to an
episode where you talked aboutlosing your sister, so that
helped me feel closer to you.
I'm like, okay, she has alsolost a close one, so yeah, you
never know what someone'sdealing with.
You don't.
You never know.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
It's like someone would look at you and you're
like this beautiful, amazingwoman they don't know that
you're suffering on the insideright and knowing that we're
meant to help each other andthat.
So I think it's interesting.
I have younger daughters andthey talk about or even a niece
that I had and she's talkingabout people on social media and
how everyone looks put togetherand it makes her feel less than

(48:19):
.
And I told her, I said honey,everyone is struggling with
their own things.
Right you can't look from theoutside and say like, yes, of
course she looks beautiful.
How lovely is that you look atsomebody and you realize some of
the pieces of their story ifthey're willing to share those
and all of the suffering thatgoes into that makes you totally
see that person with adifferent lens, instead of

(48:40):
saying like, oh, look at heramazing life because she's
beautiful, as she's postingthings like yeah, no, we're all
in the trenches dealing withyeah, garbage right and no one's
going to post about like a badday or things that they've gone
like there's a trend out therewhere people are like crying in
front of a camera, but it's alllike it's exactly Like no real

(49:01):
person is going to sit there andtell you everything that's
going wrong with their lives.
Sure, also, I, you know, I don'tknow that that's the right.
I don't want to judge anybody,but connecting in person and
being able to have thatconversation of things, or being
able to listen to other peoplebeing vulnerable, I think is
super important.
Right, I have a niece who criesin front of the mirror, and

(49:22):
when you said that, that's whatit made me think about because,
I also cried in front of themirror when I was younger,
probably just because I wantedto see myself cry in front of
the mirror.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
I feel like we all have.
Honestly, I've done that.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
I know, and then I realized you're a horrible crier
.
Stop doing awesome.
Tell me more about Hanifa.
Tell me about what you do inlife.
I know that you can tell ourlisteners, but I know that
you're in the finance space.
Yeah, tell me about, kind ofwhat drives you to do that and
what you do in that space.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, so I'm a financial planner and one of the
things that drove me to do thatwas really my relationship with
my father, like when we firstmoved here.
He he owned like a fewbusinesses in Uganda, but he
didn't really know a lot aboutAmerican businesses, um, so I
remember in again college.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
College was a lot threw a lot at you.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
It was a lot, yeah, but I had a 1999 Corolla that
just like shit the bed Like itjust wasn't working anymore.
We had replaced everything.
And one day, like I was inclass and he calls me, and he
was like oh, like, come outside.
I'm like I'm in class, likewhat do you mean?
Come outside.

(50:38):
And he's like I have a surprisefor you, class.
Like what do you mean?
Come outside.
And he's like I have a surprisefor you.
And he had gotten me a car, butit was a loan for a car in my
name that I did not ask for umwith a 15 interest rate.
Um, yeah, yeah, thanks dad yeah,and I believe that know he was

(51:00):
doing his best, like he didn'tknow any better and he really
thought he was helping bygetting me this.
But then, you know, as I gotolder, I was like, okay, this
car is underwater.
I was like on Google, liketrying to figure out, like what
does underwater mean?
Because I tried to trade it inand in and like that's what I

(51:20):
was told.
So I really had to like figureeverything out on my own and
figure out how to turn this carlike from being underwater and
how to reduce this 15 interestrate, um, and just learn about
finance on my own and likestudent loans.
So, um, I believe these thingsshould be taught in school.

(51:42):
They're not agreed, but likehaving gone through that, I was
like there must be people outthere who feel similarly to me
and you know, as women you'renot taught to learn about
finance.
So that was really my biggestinfluence into the financial
planning world.
Yeah, like I used to think Iwanted to work for the big

(52:04):
corporations and I did for awhile worked for like Putnam,
but then I was like, no, I wantto help like your everyday
person.
Yeah, you want to have animpact.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Yeah, exactly, I think that's huge.
I think there are so many women, my daughters, and then also
kind of I see all of theirfriends and it's the same thing
where I feel like we'reill-equipped to be able to kind
of navigate life in a meaningfulway, because they don't really
understand that.
Um, what do you know of?
Maybe and we can put it up onthe show notes after but, um,

(52:36):
maybe resources for young women,like, yes, financial planning,
but then like, what you weretalking about with education you
don't have that in schools.
That should.
Personal finance should besomething we learned in high
school.
Yeah we still teach calculusand history, but we don't teach
anything about emotionalintelligence or personal
finances like right, come onpeople, let's do better right
yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
So there's like vivian, you're rich bff.
Like she's on instagram, um,she teaches a lot about like
just your day-to-day things.
Um, and Google's your bestfriend.
Like if you don't knowsomething, always Google it and
ask.
Like I was so embarrassed toalways ask about things and I
would like call my bank and youknow what does this interest
rate mean?
Like, when will I pay it off?

(53:15):
And um, it goes back to likebeing vulnerable and like being
like okay, I'm gonna ask thisquestion.
I don't, you know.
I care if I sound dumb, but I'mgonna try not to care sure,
sure, exactly yeah yeah, um, andjust like, um.
A lot of books like poor dad,rich dad, um, just like your
everyday finance books are whathelped me yeah um, yeah, and

(53:38):
like a lot of the informationthat I have like from my
professional life is available.
You just have to like look forit.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
No, that's powerful and, I think, for our young
people really understanding thatyour relationship with money is
going to dictate how you dolife.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Right, right.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
So, if you are in debt, get in debt, stay in debt
your whole life, your whole life.
Know that you're, you know.
It's like the game life that weplayed when we were kids.
It's like are you going to goto college and set yourself up
for success?
not necessarily that college hasto be that path, but right
definitely a healthyrelationship with money, I think
is really important, because Isee people that are in much
later in life and they've livedthe entire thing in debt and it
just feels like a noose aroundyour neck you know, and so to be
able to really have theknowledge and be knowledgeable,

(54:25):
be willing to ask the questionsthat maybe you know, take some
vulnerability to ask a dumbquestion so that you can come
from this place of of knowledgeand, and you know, making good
choices instead of just well,whatever anybody will give me.
I think it kind of goes back tothat same perspective of is
something good enough for you orare you good enough for
somebody else, and being able toswitch that.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yeah, and also being open with yourself.
Like finance is very, verypersonal, like our spending
habits are personal.
So, just like being open withlike okay, like I am not where I
need to be right now.
Being open with like okay, likeI am not where I need to be
right now, like I had to do thatjust because, um, I noticed
that I was bearing a lot of myemotions with, just like

(55:08):
shopping, yes we're really goodat numbing with shop yeah
exactly.
I would have a bad day and Iwould just like go to Sephora
and pick up a new mascara, andit'd be fine sure everything's
fine, push it down yeah.
So there was a lot of um, likeinternal, like therapy, for that
too, which like I didn't thinkthere would be.
But I was just like oh, it'sjust numbers, but it's like no,

(55:28):
like every time I'm sad, I likebuy something and I feel happy
again.
So just like being open withyourself.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Right the self-awareness component of that
and really being able to lookat that with a open eye of okay,
why am I doing this?
What does this feel like?
You know, I hammer on thispodcast about just getting
curious about things.
So, when people are doingthings where, if you feel like
it's making you numb, if youfeel like it's helping you not

(55:56):
feel something, open your eyesto that.
Get curious about why we'redoing that.
Shopping is one of the big onesas far as numbing is concerned.
And I know lots of people thatdid it and I went through a
whole phase of that also, and Ican feel myself like sliding
back into numbing all the time,right, like obviously my biggest
problem was with alcohol, but Ican feel myself doing it with
all sorts of other things I canfeel myself when I'm numbing

(56:19):
with TV.
I can feel myself when I'mnumbing with scrolling.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
And sometimes.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
I say I'm going to numb.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
This is what I want to do.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Right, but being aware of it and being
intentional with it.
I think, is super important.
I think we don't want to bethese zombies that are just
going through making horriblelife choices, one after another
after another, and thenwondering why we feel like shit
and we have these terrible pitsin the gut, you know, on our
stomach and all this anxiety.
I mean, you look around,everybody is anxious, everyone
is depressed, everyone iswhatever.

(56:45):
Is anyone wondering, like, whatthe fix is?
Because it is literally justsitting with yourself and
getting curious and figuring outand being, you know, willing
enough to be vulnerable withyourself and with other people
to ask those questions and sayis this the best thing for me?
Right and hard, you know makinghard choices and knowing that
you're worth doing that right,exactly.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah, like I.
It took a friend asking me likeI came home with like a few
bags and he was like iseverything okay and like I laugh
about it now but like lookingback, I I was like, wow, like
that.
That is the first time Irealized like I'm connecting my
emotions to this thing.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Yes, yeah, as you've gone in on, you know, figuring
out your fixing your shit iswhat I call it right, but as
you've fixed your shit, isn't itfun to look back at the
different things that we did?
For me, that's fascinating, Ilook back and I'm just like you
know, when I change perspectives, when I open my mind to
something, everything almostkind of shifts a little bit

(57:45):
where it's like well, that'sinteresting that I thought that
that would fix it.
I put my head in the sand for along time.
You know, I just thought lifewas about this rinse, lather,
repeat.
Just get up and have thismediocre day over and over again
, and some days I was sad andsome days I was happy and
whatever that looked like.
And when you realize, god,there's a whole nother way to do

(58:07):
it there's a whole.
Nother way to do it right andand it can be with so much joy
and peace and right, just notfeeling like you're fighting and
swimming upstream all the time.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
I feel, like.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
That's what it feels like.
Yeah, but you have to bewilling to yeah, right, swimming
upstream, yeah, instead of justreally being able to be willing
to do the hard things havethose hard conversations so that
it's easier later.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Right, right, yeah, and I think the biggest thing
for me is like I'm very, like,efficient, and I thought I could
apply that efficiency to mypersonal life of like, oh, I'll
go to therapy and I'll be fine,but I didn't realize that it
would take years and years andyears of looking into myself and
sitting with myself, and so Ithink being patient with

(58:53):
yourself is really important too.
There's stuff that I'm stillworking on, but it took a really
really long time to get towhere I am now, like, and, yeah,
like I'm really proud of theprogress I've made.
For sure, but it definitelytook doing the work for years.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Do you feel like, as you've gone, that it's picked up
steam, like for me?
I feel, like, as I'm learningthese tools, yeah, I'm, I'm
better at processing things asthey come up maybe something
that at the beginning, when Istarted doing the work, took a
couple of weeks to sit with andchew on and whatever.
Now I have it down to sometimesa matter of minutes where I'm
like, okay, okay, I can see thispattern happening.

(59:32):
Let's stop this or let's put anend to this or whatever it is,
and to me, I think that feelsreally powerful.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
It does.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
yeah, these are muscles that you use them, know
you.
You use them, and the more thatyou use them, the better that
you are with them, right?
So there's hope out there toour listeners who are interested
in starting to you know do thework and dive into all of that
stuff.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Yes, a hundred percent, like now, like if, for
example, my father brings upsomething um or, you know,
brushes something off, like Ikind of respond like that
because I know the impact ofwaiting years to say what's on
my mind, and it might cause alittle bit of friction in the
moment, but it's, you know, it'sbetter and I'm able to have

(01:00:13):
those conversations a lotquicker with him too.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on today.
We're coming to the end of ourtime, but thank you for coming
on and being willing to getvulnerable and naked with me and
talk about some tough stuff.
I know that I actually got alot out of it from my own
journey with my mom's stuff andI will be unpacking that in the
next couple of weeks as well,just processing that some more

(01:00:38):
and what all of that looks like.
But I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Yeah, thank you for having me, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
So for our listeners at home, please make sure to do
all the things rate, review,share.
If you have questions, comments.
Our email address isladiesatletsgetnakedpodcastcom.
And that's our time for today.
That's a wrap.
Time for today.

(01:01:08):
That's a wrap.
I'd love to help you getvulnerable.
Let's get naked.