Fire Department Chaplain Jeff McKee

When Jeff McKee stepped into our studio, he brought with him stories of transformation, endurance, and the deep connections forged in moments of joy and sorrow.  We trace the origins of Trinity Bat Company which earned the stamp of Major League Baseball approval and is still his families business today.

The heart of our discussion beats with a profound respect for those who serve on the front lines as first responders. Jeff's calling as a fire department chaplain shines a light on the critical support our first responders require as they navigate through the aftermath of crisis. We share intimate glimpses of the sacred firehouse kitchen table, where laughter and tears are shared in equal measure, revealing the therapeutic bonds that sustain our firefighters through the toughest of times. Our narrative then pivots to the personal, delving into the raw grief of loss, the sanctuary of faith in the darkest hours, and the unifying power of community as we face life's most trying challenges.

As we wrap up our time together, we reflect on the enigmatic nature of life's trials and the resilience of the human spirit. The metaphor of the coffee bean's transformation through adversity serves as a poignant reminder that we, too, can emerge from our struggles with renewed strength. This episode is a testament to the unwavering hope that guides us through the ups and downs of life, and the indomitable connections that hold us together when the path ahead seems uncertain. Join us for this deeply human exploration, and let the power of these stories resonate within you.

Thanks for taking the time to listen in. Please leave us 5 stars on Spotify & Apple Podcasts with a review. THANK YOU!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Jeff McKee.
Welcome to the podcast man.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Tim.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
This is sweet, absolutely, man.
I've been waiting for this fora while.
We've been talking quite a bitto get you on here, so this is
going to be really cool.
One thing I do want to say isyou are the person that I went
to for advice for doing theNight of Hope.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, I was so nervous dude, I think we went
and got Mexican food right.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, baja fish taco yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Santa Ana, let's go.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, the Lord speaks through fish tacos?

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hey, he definitely does.
Man I've always.
I wanted to say on here, makeit public like thank you so much
for taking the time to do that,because I was so nervous I was,
I want to do it.
Then I didn't want to do it andthe more I stepped away from it
, the stronger pull I had on myheart to do it.
So it was really cool that youmentored me, you gave me advice

(00:59):
and you were pretty much justsaying go for it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
I just think, yeah, during that lunch, just hearing
your heart, what the Lord isputting on your heart, Because
there is hope.
Right, there's hope.
Yeah, and I think a lot ofpeople they don't know that yet.
Yeah, but then sitting therehearing and you've seen this
wrestling match of I want to dothis, but I have hesitations and

(01:25):
it's just like man Tim God'sput it on your heart you need to
do it, yeah man it was.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
It was cool.
It's cool to see how it kind ofall came together and even when
there was times where I feltlike it wasn't going to work,
the next day I get a phone callhey, this person's going to
donate for this, and then youcan use this church, this can
happen here.
And how it all came together.
And just the night and me evenspeaking that was my first time
ever speaking like that and justputting my heart out there, I
was so nervous, excuse me.

(01:51):
And then I went over it quite afew times, like I was taking
things out and I rememberthinking what verses am I going
to use?
What am I doing?
I remember there was one time Ipanicked, dude, I was in my
house like I was sitting on mycouch looking at everything I
kind of wrote and went over.
I was like what am I doing?
This is crazy, I don't do this.
And I remember I still got apiece about it.
And then, getting up there, Iwas so nervous.

(02:12):
I'm like how am I going tospeak?
Because I do the podcast, I cantalk to people, I enjoy it, but
to be on stage, I started going.
It was just like a peace and acalm came over and like, oh, we
got this.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
I think this is going to be super good, it was a
powerful night and I didn't knowyou can sing.
So you're like you did theintro and then you stayed up on
the stage and you're singing andI'm like man, god has blessed
this guy with some skills.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Oh man, I used, yeah, I sang, I wrote music for a
while, did that, and then I wentto the fire service.
I was kind of like I needsomething stable and then I just
stepped away from my faith anddidn't, didn't want anything to
do with anymore.
And, um, yeah, I mean, there'sso many people that have been
always told me you need to singagain, you need to write like
you got a voice.
I'm like, yeah, we'll see.
I don't know, but that was thefirst time I'd sang and gosh

(03:02):
probably probably 10 years,eight years.
I was actually doing it with aband and everything.
And the funny part is we hadnone of us had ever played.
Well, I had never played withthem before, and that was the
first time.
And they're they'reprofessional musicians.
They actually, you know, theydo that for a living and play at
churches, and that was thefirst time we played together.

(03:22):
It was wild dude.
I'm like, well, they're pros,so they should have it down,
yeah it was, it was good,Message was good.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
I mean testimony to, I mean especially Sharon, just
about your brother, yeah, Um,just yeah Powerful.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, it was awesome, man and I just it's a huge,
just a testament to you and howyou're there for people and what
you do, which we're going toget into.
I just want to say thanks, man,it's been huge.
I'm so glad that we have thefriendship that we do and be
able to talk with each otherjust about stuff that happens on
duty for us as firefighters andthen just outside of work and
what we're doing, and it'ssomething special.
So I just want to say thanks.

(03:57):
But, jeff, you told mesomething before we started that
your family you used to make.
You guys make bats, yeah, okay,so what's the story behind that
?
When did that all start?
Yeah, I'm talking like bats forwooden bats for baseball, right
?

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, baseball bat 2005,.
We had my dad and my brother,myself.
We started a baseball batcompany called Trinity Bat
Company in Fullerton, southernCalifornia.
Dude, trinity, I like that name.
Yeah, I, dude Trinity, I likethat name.
Yeah, I like that name.
Yeah, it's a good one.
Well, here's the thing.
So, wood-wise in manufacturing,my experience was wood shop at

(04:32):
Tustin High School, oh, wow,yeah.
So I didn't have a woodbackground, but we just had a
passion for the game, yeah, andstarted.
This small little bat companygot approved by Major League
Baseball in 2006.
And that year Vladimir Guerrero, orlando Cabrera, a bunch of
guys on the Angels started usingthem and word started spreading

(04:54):
.
What?
Yeah?
So you know, my job was the VPand I handled all the Major
League sales, sales.
But it was cool.
In the bat company I really sawthese pro athletes that were
believers use sport as aplatform to share Jesus with
people.
That's rad, super rad.

(05:15):
It planted this ministry bug inmy heart that I couldn't shake.
I tried to shake it.
So when you were talking aboutgoing to that lunch and you were
wrestling with man, I want todo this, but there's, I have
hesitation.
Yeah, so I, I knew exactly, Iknow what you were feeling, um,

(05:36):
I just I felt that a couple oftimes when I felt God was moving
, he's calling me into somethingUm, but yeah, in that bat
company I something Um, but yeah, in that bat company I.
Opportunity to, to see sportand a platform to bring hope
into someone's life, into asport like into a clubhouse.
It was really cool.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
That is cool how so how did you guys get approved?
Is it being I'm saying theright verbiage here approved for
major league?
Yeah, how does that work.
They want to see like it's alegit.
You know, like, is it likemeasurements?
It's, how does that work.
They want to see like it'slegit.
You know, like, is it likemeasurements, it's, how does
that work.
Yeah, so you.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
The hardest part about it is getting a liability
insurance policy in case the batbreaks and flies in the stands.
So you have the way the wordingthat liability insurance policy
has to be worded.
Wait a minute.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
So okay, so they buy your bat and they're, they're up
to bat.
They hit a ball, the bat breaksand goes into stands.
The MLB is not liable.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
You are, as the manufacturer the bats and uh,
but yeah, over over this, likein the last 15 years or so,
there's been more research intowhat wood products are being
used.
Okay, actually strength testing, um, you know so that there's a

(06:54):
, there's an ink dot test on thehandle and the way the ink
bleeds on that you can read thegrain of slope.
So if it's like three degreesoff, you don't send that out,
because if it's more than threedegrees it's more likely to fail
.
So, multi-piece failures, wow,fail that three degrees.

(07:14):
But if it, when you put thatink dot test on there and that
ink bleeds straight, then that's, it's a good bat.
You can send that out.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
I had no idea that much goes into making bats.
Yeah, that's that's.
It's a good bat.
You can send that out.
I had no idea that much goesinto making bats.
Yeah, that's, that's incredibleactually.
Yeah, well, so I'm, you don'thave to say a number, but I'm
sure that policy has to bepretty big.
Oh, it's a big ball.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
That's the hardest part.
Yeah, I'm sure.
Yeah, that's the hardest part.
You, there's a, there's a feethat you pay and there's an
annual thing you pay and I knowthat's gone up over the years
and um, and then the uh, thefirst part when you first get
approved, you have to have aletter from a major league club
saying that you know theseplayers from the club they want,

(07:55):
they want your product.
So then the angels, the angelswere able to get us that letter.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Okay, um, how well then.
How did you first get your?
How'd you get them to use yourbat to get that approval?

Speaker 2 (08:06):
yeah, so we uh, it was kind of one of the things
vladimir guerrero at the time hewas like the biggest, he was
one of the biggest names inbaseball.
Um, I did research online, Imade him two bats and I just
kind of guessed of what model,length and weight and everything
made him two bats and sent itto him for spring training.

(08:26):
So then they'll, they'll get up, try it or whatever.
Um, so we show up to springtraining and you know, guys are
like sending vladi like six bats12 bats.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Oh wow, so there's other people vying for that
right?

Speaker 2 (08:41):
yeah, okay, okay so you know, and here we send them
two, you know.
So I'm just like, oh man, wegot no shot.
Yeah, well, you never know this, you try like you do no, but
yeah, so he ended up using.
He ended up using like one ofour bats the whole spring
training.
Took the other bat on the planewith him opening day in seattle

(09:02):
.
He loved him and yeah, it wasone of those things where it
just it started.
It kind of started the ballrolling.
More guys in you know, majorleagues started using them
Started.
Well, hey, I want to try it out.
Like here's my model.
This is what I use.
Can you make one for me?
Okay, so we would make themsamples and they would try it
out.
And it was, the product wasalways good.

(09:25):
I feel like what separated uswas the turnaround time,
especially for the West Coastteam.
So I would go to San Diego orLA or Anaheim.
I would see a lot of teams thatwould come in.
East Coast teams would come in.
They would stop in San Diego.
I would get a sample from them.

(09:52):
They would go to L.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
I would meet them in LA with that sample bat, Um, but
yeah, it was really cool,Really fun to be a part of it.
That is so cool.
I had no idea that you, that'sthat's what you did for a while.
Yeah, Well, now, when they sothey use your bat you got the
letter you're approved for majorleague do you make them?
You know you make a batch for ateam or is it specifically for
each player?

Speaker 2 (10:09):
it's for the player, okay.
So usually on the on the bigleague side, uh, equipment
manager will order a dozen forspring training, okay, and then
a dozen for opening day, a dozenat the all-star break, okay,
and then, depending on if theyare like playoffs, then another
dozen, okay, for each player,for each player.
Oh, they don't break that many,but they're just to have stock.

(10:33):
Uh, you go on a road road trip.
You know they're going to take,you know, four to six bats on a
road trip for that player.
Wow.
So you know, if you got a guyon the mound throwing 100 miles
an hour inside pitch, you knowyou're breaking a bat.
You know you, you, they're.
That equipment manager hasbackup bats for all those guys,

(10:54):
geez yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
So what?
What is the wood that you usefor the bats?

Speaker 2 (10:59):
so ash birch and maple maple's the hardest, uh,
but it's the least forgiving.
Maple maple's the hardest, uh,but it's the least forgiving.
So, like, if you're watching aball game and a bat breaks, and
usually, like, the barrel fliesout more than likely, that's
maple.
Okay, okay, but it's really ahard wood, uh, the ball really,
you know, jumps off of it dude,that is so interesting, yeah and

(11:20):
you guys are still doing thatnow, right, yeah, my dad and
brother, they're still doing it,still manufacturing.
And Corey Seeger.
Corey Seeger is one of theirguys and he's tearing it up with
Texas Rangers.
It's been cool.
There's a couple Trinity batsin the Hall of Fame.
It's really neat.
That's so cool.
Ben Zobris from the 2016 WorldSeries One of his bats is in

(11:41):
there.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
That is so cool, so in one of his bats is in there
and that is so cool.
So in the hall of fame it'slike it's in one of the glass
cases, oh yeah, and has your,has a plaque for your name too
is it just.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
No, it's just, it's one of our bats and ben, you
know, ben signed it, or whateverplayer signed it, and yeah dude
.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
That's, that's huge, it's sweet.
That is pretty right.
You mean, that's a legacy foryour family.
It's fun.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Now are is the rest of yourfamily, since the name is
Trinity?
Are they believers as well?
Yeah, okay, okay.
Are they pastors, like you are?

Speaker 2 (12:09):
at any chance, no no, plugged into the church,
serving at the local church, andyeah, we it was in a print shop
is where we kind of dreamed ofthis and we'd say, hey, if this
is going to work like God needsto be, all in this.
There's seven stars in the logo.
So in the book of RevelationGod said he holds seven stars in

(12:32):
his right hand.
Let's go.
That's where we needed to beand we wanted to be as a
business, as a company.
So yeah, it was cool.
And still they're manufacturingbats for teams in Korea, oh wow
.
Yeah, a lot of overseas.
So you're international.
Oh, yeah, a lot of overseascontracts.
I love it.

(12:53):
Yeah, survived COVID.
I think that was the hard partfor them was getting through
that, because all sports wereshut down.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Oh, it took a huge hit.
Yeah, so would you considerthat company?
Is that a small business?
Would you say it's a mediumsize?

Speaker 2 (13:06):
yeah, medium size business.
And yeah, and is it just woodbats?

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Just wood bats.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah man, my God dude , you're see you're interesting
high school sports, rightBaseball, are you?
Is it being like a chaplain ora coach?

(13:32):
I do both.
Yeah, I'm at Orange LutheranHigh School right now.
I coach there a couple of daysa week and then also they're
chaplain.
So we do baseball chapel in theteam room and that's cool, yeah
.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
That's super rad.
And how did you so?
You're a chaplain for firedepartment.
How did you get into that?
Because I don't even know.
I know the process of trying toget hired, right.
You take a test and backgroundsand all this, get all your
certifications, fire academiesbut what does that look like for
chaplains?
Is that different for eachdepartment?
Or I mean, how does it work?

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah Well.
So I graduated high school in95.
I went to Santa Ana College.
I wanted to be a firefighterand I started taking the core
classes.
I'm red, green, colorblind andthat was going to stop me from
graduating from the academy atthe time.

(14:17):
And I was just like I got thisbig old, huge no from the Lord.
This is an avenue I'm not goingto take you down.
Um, I was crushed by it.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
yeah, I would say that had to be kind of hard
right, because that was probablya dream at the time.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
It was a dream yeah, yeah, big playing in the big
leagues and then, or being afirefighter that those are two
like dreams of mine.
And, um, so, fast forward.
You know I go into the printshop, you know I make baseball
bats.
I get ordained as a licensedminister through our ministry,

(14:52):
through FCA, the sports ministrythat I do now, and also through
the local church, and a buddyof mine calls me out like four
years ago, and says, hey, thisfire agency, fire agency is
hiring for chaplains.
Um, I know your story, I knowyour testimony.
Um, like, I think you need toapply for this.

(15:13):
So I'm like, okay, I'll thinkabout it.
He says no, he says it ends inthree hours, like, job posting
is down in three hours.
So I just like, okay, I'll justfill this out.
I didn't even submit my resume.
I just like this isn't going towork.
Yeah, but okay, if God wants meto do this, yeah, yeah.

(15:34):
So I ended up getting a call andan interview and then it's like
, then it hits.
I'm like sitting there allnervous, but I'm like, why am I
so nervous?
This is like a volunteerposition, gotcha, you know, okay
, um, but yeah, then they said,they said yes, they brought me
on as an associate, um.
So then we kind of get ourassociates, get our feet wet and

(15:57):
, um, get in and start learningthe language and I felt like God
allowed me to be a part of itearly on, to understand the
language, to understand theculture.
So, just enough, like I feltlike god brought me in, yeah, to
understand a little bit of it.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
It's like he was still prepping you, even though,
no, for one part of the fireservice it was a yes and another
it was a yes and the other.
That's huge, man, yeah, that'shuge.
Wow.
Now, how long you've been achaplain now.
So three years, three years,yeah, man, now as a chaplain,
I'm sure.
Actually, I know I had a callthat was very rough and it, you

(16:33):
know, involved a child and Iremember I believe it was you.
You showed up with thecounseling team we had and all
that stuff, and we had that talkaround the table and that was
huge.
That was really huge, cause Ididn't realize how much that
call actually bothered me untilwe had gotten back and I
remember it was in the morning Ijust did the checkout my rig

(16:54):
and we got that call and it wascrazy, right, it was so much
went on, it was very sad.
We get back from the call and Iusually go for a run in the
morning, cause there's a fieldover there by that station I
used to work at, or a soccerfield, soccer and baseball, and
that's where I'd run laps.
I'd run laps and just do three,three miles and I get out there
running and I'm running andthat call was across street from

(17:15):
that field and every time Ipass I could still see the
police there and it was just.
And I kept thinking about thecall and halfway through that
run I just broke down.
I was like, man, this is, thisis messed up, like I'm not doing
good.
I went back to the station.
I was like, hey, man, we needto call them out.
I think we all need to have atalk Cause, you know, initially
everyone says, oh, we're fine,we're fine, we're fine.
And then you show up in thecounseling team and we start you

(17:38):
know, how do you guys feel thisand that?
And they kind of I was likeI'll speak up first.
Yeah, this is not cool, this ismessed up.
And then you can see everyonestart to open up and talk and I
think that's that's one of thethings I've realized in being
this career for as long as Ihave it's like 17 years, is.
You know, we see a lot of badthings and I don't think the

(18:00):
normal, the public, civilians,understand what we see on a
day-to-day basis when we go towork, you know, and I see that
with my own family.
They're kind of like oh, youknow, you got a cool uniform,
shiny red edge, and it's likeit's a lot more than that.
But the importance of havingour chaplains and counseling
team, international, or justanybody that's there on call to

(18:22):
support us and help us duringthose times times because it's
not normal to see death andviolence as much as we see it,
and that's why I want to ask you, is like in your position.
I mean, you have to see thatthere's such a huge need for
help, for hope.
Right, that's the biggest thingI talk about.
I almost said preach, whatever.
I ain't no preacher dog, butit's the biggest thing.

(18:43):
I always say, because I see itso much with my fellow
co-workers and firefighters um,you can see, there's it's, it's
not just the things at work thatwe see, but we take it home and
how do we process that and getit, you know.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
So it's one of those things like for you, I'm sure
you, you see, need oh yeah, Ithink can't like, can it be okay
that someone's not okay andit's like even for us.
So I feel like even just God'sput on my heart.

(19:16):
And who's responding to thefirst responders?

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
And as a chaplain, that's part of my role.
So I'm not a pastor Like Idon't come in and preach, right,
so it's it's how do I walkalongside, how do I come in and
support, how do I encourage?
And in, in moments like thosewhere a debrief is called, um,
you know a lot of times whatwe've seen the captain's senses

(19:43):
or feels that someone is off alittle bit.
A debrief is called Usuallywhen the conversations are going
down, everybody is engaging init, and then you kind of see
some of the, even just some ofthe emotions arise and I even

(20:04):
feel like I feel with certain.
You know debriefs I've been apart of.
It's like years of emotions.
I feel a hundred percent.
It's not just that's this, it'snot just that.
One incident that happened five,six hours ago, yeah, um, it was
, it's years of emotion and um,you know we've had people say
like years of emotion.

(20:27):
And you know we've had peoplesay like, hey, I've called this
for someone else, but I neededit as well.
And our job as a chaplain is towalk alongside, right, we're not
going to push faith, we're notgoing to push Jesus on people
and for those who have faith tocome alongside of them pray for,
for them, like when thosedebriefs are going on and the

(20:48):
chaplains you know them andwe're just praying our whole way
through it because one we wantpeople to to know hey, there is
hope, what you're feeling likeis okay, yeah.
And then even the process oftalking about it, like if it can
be normal and okay to talkabout things in the next, like
the first 48 hours of what youguys experience, like that box

(21:14):
in our brain becomes really,really small.
But if we don't talk about itand we just say, hey, we're okay
, and internally we could bejust broken up over it.
Now that box is huge, yeah,yeah.
And then the next call could be, or a call 10 years down the
road is what could triggersomething yeah, man, it's.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Uh, it's such an interesting thing because I know
I struggle with that for a bitof not talking and having the
experience that I have and beingon as long as I have.
It's truly.
I mean, there's a documentaryabout it, right, the Call we
Carry.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
And it's so true.
It's like I bury these things,right, you bury it, but
eventually it stacks up and it'sgoing to come out somewhere.
Whether it's in your personallife, whether it's at work,
you're alone, whatever it'sgoing to be personal life,
whether it's at work, you'realone, whatever it's going to be
.
Because we see all these thingsand then we come home, we're
expected to be a father, ahusband, brother, uncle,
whatever it's going to be anormal person in society.

(22:13):
But you just you see some crazystuff.
It's like, man, this is wild,this is crazy.
It's like, how do I process it?
I got to a point where thinkinglike I can't, I'm helping
others, but I can't even helpmyself yeah, it was, it was such
a, it was very helpless feelingand then realizing, okay, I'm
going to call somebody, I'mgoing to use what we have the
counseling team, internationalcolumn, and and get that, which

(22:35):
I think is great.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
At least we're you know where we work.
It's free for us which is huge.
I think it's so big.
It's a big deal to me becauseI've already convinced and
talked to a few fellowfirefighters I think it's about
10, 10 or 12, and I've gottenthem to do it.
All of them have said I shouldhave gone earlier.
It's needed.
You have to talk it out, youhave to get them the emotions

(22:59):
that we have from seeing anddealing with things that we deal
with.
That's, I mean, that's Godgiven man, that's in you so you
can process.
It's okay to cry.
It's okay to get angry Nowdon't get angry where you're
punching somebody but yeah, it'sokay to have some of that anger
, that doubt, that let down thesorrow.
I mean you want to get that outbecause it's your way of

(23:24):
processing.
You know and realizing, know it.
It helped me be able to processthings so much better, Cause
you know, I remember just cominghome being quiet all the time
you know, and it's a hey, areyou mad?
No, I'm not, I'm not mad, butyou keep asking me I'm going to

(23:46):
get mad.
But it's like God, how do I?
This is crazy.
You know, I remember a shift inmy old department.
I was a young medic early onand it was probably one of the
craziest shifts I've ever worked.
We, we started the day and I wasone of the busiest rigs that we
had there.
We, we had a stroke person andthen we had someone had a heart
attack, couldn't save them.
Then we had this TC cut andrescue.
The person was mangled anddeceased.
Then we delivered a baby.
Then we had this TC cut andrescue, the person was mangled
and deceased.
Then we delivered a baby.
Then we had a fire.

(24:06):
Then we come back.
We had another pregnancy wherethe baby was almost delivered
and then, boom, it was seveno'clock, time to go home.
I remember just driving home insilence like that was intense,
man, it was crazy.
And then it's like how do Iprocess that?
How do I get to that?
And realizing that we have theresources to, to be able to, to

(24:27):
talk that out and talk tosomebody, and it stays there.
It doesn't.
It doesn't mean you're crazythat you talk to them.
It's big because it used to betaboo.
I would say the first 10 yearsof my career.
You don't talk about it.
Yeah, be a man.
Yeah, it's like eh, there's, wegot an issue here, right?
And the sad part is suicide.
Is that number one killer now?

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
And it's sad and I've seen it and you know, because I
talk about my faith on here alot more now, and how much it's
had an impact on my life.
It's really cool to see howmany other first responders are
now messaging me and talking tome and starting to say hey man,
I'm struggling with this.
Yeah start and say, hey, man,I'm struggling with this.
Yeah, I'm having a hard timewith this and that's why I'm
like hey, call this number yeahyou know, let's, let's, let's

(25:08):
meet and get coffee and talkyeah you know.
So what you do, it has more ofan impact than you think, man.
Oh, it really does so, but it'sgot to take a toll on you.
I'd imagine yeah, no, I havepeople I talk to too.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, I mean it, you know, I'll, I'll call, I'll call
my wife and um, so I have ateam of people as I'm responding
to a call.
I have a team of people that Itext, so they're praying for me
and they're praying for who I'mgoing into, uh to, to help and
um, uh, so then when I leave, um, I've got a good buddy that I

(25:43):
call.
Okay, we usually go to lunchand it usually is Baja Fish
Tacos.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Baja Fish Tacos baby.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
I'm not contracted by them, at least not yet, but
we're there a lot Bringing themplenty of business.
Yeah, but we'll all go and meetand then I'll debrief myself.
You know, because we see somuch, but it doesn't make sense.
And even why, like why?
Why does this happen?

(26:13):
And you know, like, and evenjust I think the what a lot of
people wrestle with is you know,why does God allow this to
happen?
I wrestle with that.
Yeah, absolutely.
There's, there's calls that youguys see that it's just like,
man, this does not make senseand um, but that's where, like
someone who's following Jesus,it's just like, okay, god, I,

(26:36):
man, I'm having a hard time withthis, but I'm going to continue
to trust you.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
I'm going to trust you.
But you said something I feelstrength in the fire service is
you go back to your team, yourcrew Usually it's four people,
three or four that table, thetable that you sit at or you
have a meal at, you share, likeyour coffee at.

(27:02):
I feel like that's theopportunity to where it's like
the informal debrief, yeah, andif that could be a strength
within the fire service of anopportunity to where maybe one
or two people you know and heyman, what'd you, what'd you
think of that call?
yeah you know, or, and not evenlike, not even a task oriented

(27:28):
debrief, but you're not, youknow, you're not, you're not
trying to.
Hey, man, you could have donethis better, or you know, right,
so, but it's just, how are youdoing, um, you know, and and
even, just, man, that that kindof rocked me a little bit.
Yeah, you know, I think, for usas chaplains too, the things
that we see, you guys have seven, eight calls in a row in the

(27:52):
middle of the night, yeah, andthen you're not able to sleep,
you know.
And then that last call, I meanmy last debrief, there were
seven calls for this crew.
It was all during the night andthere was a TC on the 22

(28:18):
freeway with fire.
The person was able to berescued, but they were all burnt
up and it wasn't good.
Um, you know, but it's like theywere, they're going all, they
were going hard all night long,yeah, um, you know, and then
that was their second day, butsome, some guys, were also on
their third day, you know.
So it's just like you know, ittakes a toll, takes a toll on

(28:41):
you.
So I say all that though, man,if we can find time, maybe not
necessarily within those calls.
But before you go home fromthat shift, just uh, if, if
everybody's okay and we don'twant to go in and have a formal
debrief, but you know can, cansomebody?
Before you get in the car, youknow, hey, let's just talk about

(29:05):
this real quick.
Yeah, you know, can, can we,can we process this real quick,
you know cause?
Then I I do believe then whenyou go home, then that husband
or that wife, like now, thatyour relationship with your
spouse will be a little bitbetter, yeah, the relationship
with your kids will be a littlebit better.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, it's, it's be a little bit better.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's funny.
You say that the firehousekitchen table, I think, is such
a sacred place.
You know it's a special placetoo, I think, because you know,
not only can we sit there andtalk things out and debrief from
calls and help each other, but,man, some some of the best
laughs I've ever had.

(29:46):
I've been just sitting aroundhaving coffee, talking to my
crew and then even learning tofix my first couple of homes I
had.
You're trying to, hey, how do Iput floors down?
Oh, hey, this is how you do it.
You go here, do this or that, orcall this person, call that
person, and celebratingsomeone's birthday or holidays
there.
It's such a great gatheringplace to commune together and

(30:06):
have that crew cohesion, thatunity.
It's not just talking aboutfire service stuff, but we talk
about life together and you knowthere's been a few guys at that
kitchen table.
We've shared tears where it'snot just stuff at work, where
they're having trouble at home,they're having difficult times.
You know, and you, you sitthere with them and you, um, you

(30:27):
walk with them through that.
Yeah, and they and it's so coolCause it's unique, you don't
get that in many other jobs.
You know, you just clock and goto work and go home.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
But there's, you know , there's such a connection that
you have at that, the firehousetable that's so unique and so
special to me, and we start ourday with a coffee break.
Let's be real, right, we get toput our stuff on the rig and
then go to the kitchen table,have coffee hey, do your
turnover.
How was your shift?
Hey, oh, the day's off, howwould that go?
And you talk with the guys, thegals at the firehouse, and you

(30:57):
have your conference call and doyour thing and then we cook.
We do so much right there atthat kitchen table and playing
cards and laughing and havingfun, and it's something I wish
everyone could experience.
They're not really going to beable to have that.
Let's be real.
Most people, yeah, but man,that kitchen table is so unique
and so awesome.
It's something that I don'tever want to take for granted.

(31:18):
Yeah, I love it so much.
Man, there's some funny dudesin the fire service.
Oh yeah, Some characters there'ssome funny dudes in the fire
service, oh yeah, characters.
Oh yeah, man, you get all walksof life in there.
So it's yeah, you have a hugepoint on that, man that that
firehouse kitchen table issomething that could be utilized
very well, yeah, very, verywell.
But something you said that's.
You know, I, I do struggle withthat, you know, coming back to

(31:41):
my faith, but then also seeingthat, what, all that we see in
the fire service and then whatI've experienced in my life,
you're kind of like questionthings a little bit and I tell
people to me I'm like it's okayto question things, me now
making my relationship with theLord a relationship personal,
not religion or rules and laws.
It's so different now.

(32:01):
My prayers are different.
It's not this.
I mean, I'm sure there's timeand place.
You know, bow your head, closeyour eyes, do all that.
To me now it's like it's almostlike when I was reading the
book of Job.
You know his prayers were rough.
Yeah, man, he let the Lord haveit, but he always finished with
I trust you and I love you.
Yeah, you know, and that's kindof where I'm at now, where,

(32:22):
from having a bad day or seeingstuff, it's like, dude, what's
going on?
How could this happen?
Like, ah, this hurts me.
I'm upset, like, why would youlet this happen?
But I'm going to trust you inthis.
And it almost comes back to myown story, even with when my
brother was killed in a caraccident, seeing the pain that
my family went through,especially my parents.
No parent should have to burytheir child.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
That is just the.
You know.
I've never seen my parents inso much pain, and to see my dad
and my mom just crumpled over onthe couch, crying but also
praying, that stood out to me.
Were they perfect people?
No, none of us are right.
They had their own issues, butthey tried their best to put the
Lord first and make sure he wasfirst in our lives and to see

(33:08):
where they were then and then tosee where they are now.
It is so.
It's a miracle and there'snothing that could do that for
them but God putting their faithin Jesus.
And that's something.
Now, when I look back now as anadult and seeing all that I've
been through that some things Ididn't have control over and

(33:30):
some things I did and I totallymessed up and made horrible
decisions but seeing how theLord has carried me through
those times to where I'm at now,you look back.
You're like, oh, I get it.
It doesn't make sense, but I getit, you know it's it's really
interesting and even when we hadthe night of hope to, I was
really nervous because my familywas there.
Right, I love my family, right,we, we're always there for each

(33:54):
other, no matter what you know.
And they know my dirt, that weare like they know I'll just I
throw it up to my mom and mysister.
But, gosh, it's so cool howthey're so accepting and they
never judge, and for them to seethe path that I had been on to
where I'm at now and then I'mputting on this.
You know this event and I'mspeaking.

(34:16):
I remember they're kind of like,are you serious?
Like you're going to go upthere?
I'm like, yeah, I'm just goingto bring it.
Like you're gonna go up there.
I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonnabring it.
But then to see them thereworshiping and singing and then
hearing me tell not just mystory but our family story and
what we've been through, and say, yeah, it was a rough road, it
hurt, it was painful and westill mourn his death at times,

(34:37):
but we rejoice differentlybecause there's hope.
We know we're gonna see himagain.
I mean, I said it when I was upthere.
The reality is, none of us areleaving this are going to stay
on this earth.
Yeah, like we're all going todie.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
You know it's, it's just a matter of when and how,
right.
But knowing that death isn'tthe final answer.
And we just celebrated Easter,which is so beautiful, and it
meant so much more to me thisyear and I'm Gosh, I'm trying to
get emotional but it means somuch to me more this year
because I've just seen how farhe's brought me and what he's
done.
It's because of what he did onthe cross, it's because he had

(35:09):
to die.
He was that innocent man whoknew no sin, became sin, died
for us, and then he rose to giveus hope, to say, hey, I've made
a way out for you, it's over,it's good.
All you got to do is accept me.
It's so powerful and it's sosimple, but yet people think
it's not.

(35:30):
It's like oh, what did I tellyou?
It's so much more simpler thanyou think and all I have to say
it's having that faith now andthat trust has brought so much
more peace.
That knowing.
Okay, I know you know I hope Ihave a lot more time left on
this earth, but I know there'sgoing to be more tough times
coming.
There's going to be trials andtribulations, you know, and.

(35:50):
But I know that what I,whatever I go through, I'm going
to be okay.
It's going to hurt.
He knows that pain, he's beenon this earth and he lived it.
But he's going to make it makesense one day.
And that, to me, is such acomforting piece and, for me,
more of a definition of love.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
That true love.
I'm going to be with you.
I'm going to walk with youthrough deep waters, yeah.
When you're on the mountaintop,I'm going to dance with you too
, and when you cry, I'm going tocry with you, I'm going to
catch those tears.
And so, trying to make sense ofthings, sometimes it's hard and
I question it, but then I fallback on that faith.
Like you know what?
I'm just going to leave it inyour hands, dude, it's going to
be okay.
That's when you hit on thatpoint it's like man, like why,

(36:32):
why do these things happen?
What do we do?
Like, how do I handle this?
You know, but I can say it frommy life as a testament.
Like he works it out, yeah, Idon't, I don't know how this, as
they say, right, the Lord worksin mysterious ways.
Yeah, but he does.
And it's sometimes I can'texplain that to people.
I'm like you have to experienceit.
I mean, I have been at a pointwhere it's like I thought my

(36:53):
life was over, like, yeah, thisis it.
Like this sucks, you know, andit's just I don't know.
I'm sure you see it with whatyou do, yeah, and what you do
for us and even in, you knowbeing teaching or coaching
baseball and all those thingsand molding those lives.

(37:13):
I mean, gosh, I would imagineyou see people struggle with
that.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, well, I think I mean the last couple of years

(37:38):
too.
There's a couple of familieswithin our program and you know
the dads are battling cancer.
You know, and it's like, youknow, here's a high school kid
and you know their hero, theirdad, you know, is struggling
with this and you know I've hada couple of them come up to me
and, just like Coach, I knowGod's with me but I'm just not
seeing him right now, you know,like trying to.
I could see this, you know, 16year old, trying to hold on to
hope, trying to hold on tosomething, and it's like man,
okay, hey, he's there.

(37:59):
You may not see him, but he'sthere and let me walk with you.
So, and then you know that waslast year, that conversation
happened, and then this yearwith the same athlete.
It's like, coach, I'm readingthe book of John and I'm in
God's word and you know, I'mjust, I'm plowing through, like

(38:23):
I want to follow Jesus and Iwant to be as close as him as I
can.
Yeah, you know, and you knowthe dad's still struggling with
cancer, you know, and stillfighting it.
And you know it's like, but,man, I see, I see this youngster
, this young man, you know, likefollowing Jesus, you know, and

(38:44):
like following Jesus is hard.
You know, I'm 48 years old andfollowing Jesus is hard, like
it's like a white knuckle rideand it's just like, but that's
where it's.
Just like God, I'm just but.
So that 16-year-old boy in mehearing that athlete say I am

(39:07):
not seeing God in this?
You know, I've had multipletimes in my life.
You know, my wife and myself wedidn't have kids soft for four
years.
We had two miscarriages and oneof them was really really late
and it just totally it rocked us.
Um and um.
It was just like god, I'm gonnatrust you in this, but like I'm

(39:32):
having a hard timeunderstanding.
You're having a hard timeunderstanding, yeah, but I'm
gonna trust you.
Yeah, um, you know and, but I'mgoing to trust you.
Yeah, you know, and God hasblessed us with two girls now.
I mean, they're 18 and 20.
You know.

(39:53):
But so then I get a phone callfrom a fire captain two years
ago and well, he wants me tocome to the firehouse, come have
coffee.
And he would strategically callme hey, can you come and have
coffee around the table.
He wouldn't tell me why and hewouldn't tell me for who I was
coming for, uh, but I would hangthere and then somebody would
follow me to the car.
Um, and you know this oneindividual, he was struggling,

(40:16):
his wife had a miscarriage.
Um and uh, it was just like.
So I'm like internally, likeI'm nodding my head and he's
like I don't know if you know,uh, how I'm feeling.
You know, I said, I do know howyou're feeling.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
I know, I know how, like I know how it is to try to
process my own feelings and thenalso support my bride Right.
How do I support her and herfeelings and deal with my own
feelings and then also supportmy bride right?
Yeah, how do I support her andher feelings and deal with my
own feelings?

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
So I like I know, I know how you're feeling and so
to say it's you know, and Istill get emotional Like when I,
when I talk about that, thatyou know those years, but um,
and I God has done some workthrough that to where man, I
know how it feels.
You know, as a man, as ahusband, you know, when I feel

(41:10):
like something happens to ourwives like that, you know, we,
almost, because we want to help,we're fixers.
Oh, 100%, like, how do we fixthis?
Yeah, well, god's not sayingyeah, he's not asking us to fix
it.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
I like that's not asking us to fix it.
Let's go.
I like that.
He's asking us to trust him.
Yeah, he's asking us to trusthim.
And even you know we've hadconversations with our girls.
You know what, what?
What I be here If, if you hadto miscarriage, if you didn't

(41:47):
have a miscarriage, would I behere?
And it's like I have no idea.
But you're here, yeah, right,like this was a part of god's
plan for our lives.
Um, you know, I'm, I'm here,you're here.
Um, so I just think man, it'sand we try to make sense of it.
Um, but sometimes I feel likewe can see, you know, you get 20
, 30 years down the road.
Okay, god, I can kind of seewhy you allow that to happen.

(42:09):
You know, like me getting thenote for the fire service, you
know.
But then, 30 years later, youknow God's allowed me to be a
chaplain for people in the fireservice.
You know he brought it fullcircle.
You know, if he'd have told me30 years ago that this was the
plan, I would have messed it allup, right, yeah, yeah, you know

(42:30):
I would have messed it up.
But you know, there's timeswhere and I think I shared this
with you when we went to lunch.
God doesn't waste things.
Let's go, baby, where we feelthat man.
I went through two years ofSanta Ana College to pursue the

(42:50):
fire industry and I wrestledwith that of man for a long time
of two years.
Okay, god, what do you?
How are you going to redeemthese two years?
Yeah, you know, and I've cometo realize that he doesn't waste
things.
You know, even our trials thatwe go through, even our
questioning, you know, do youthink of a diamond?

(43:12):
The amount of pressure that'son that coal, right, and then it
becomes a diamond.
What we do at the table at the,at the firehouse, we drink
coffee.
What we do at the table at the,at the firehouse, we drink
coffee.
In order to drink that, thatthat bean has to be like, picked
right, so pulled off of off oftree, roasted in fire, you know,

(43:33):
and then ground up Right, right, right, and then pour hot water
over it and then you get totaste it and it's tastes so
amazing, right, but what thatbean goes through.
You get to taste it and ittastes so amazing, right, but
what that being goes through toget to that.
So I'm like man.
My life is like that coffeebean.
Yeah, right, there's times inmy life where I don't understand
it.
But you know, when you'rebrewing that coffee and you

(43:56):
smell it across the room, andyou know, like that's my life,
that you know, as we followJesus.
Those are things in our lives.
It may not make sense, but, man, god, I'm going to trust you,
I'm going to, I'm going tofollow, I'm going to trust you.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Well, look what, look at, look at what is done in
that.
You know those miscarriages andthat, that, that firefighter
that followed you out to the car.
I mean, how correct are yousaying he doesn't waste things,
right?
Yeah, that was a difficult time.
I get it.
I've actually been through that.
It's hard, that is a difficultprocess to go through, and

(44:31):
especially for the female.
But I just know as a guy.
It really was hard to not beable to do anything.
It was just kind of like, well,I'm here, gosh, and you want to
be able to take that pain andhelp them get through that.
And it's so frustrating, it'sso hard, and the hopes and
dreams you had for thatpregnancy and that child, it

(44:52):
just feels like it's justshattered.
But now it's like you'rehelping somebody else and to me
those things like that thatplays into eternity.
That's priceless man.
I mean, my goodness, you'reliterally counseling somebody
who's going through a difficulttime that's going to hopefully
start relying on the Lord andchange their life and help them

(45:15):
get through a trial.
I mean, goodness, what more canyou ask from somebody to live
like the Lord did and justminister to people and help them
?
I mean, because the reality iseveryone's going through
something.
That's one thing I reallyrealized.
I'm like, wow, I, I was seeinghow they uh, a firefighter, uh
from a local department reachedout to me yesterday and, uh,

(45:36):
we've been friends.
We were friends a long time ago.
I honestly forgot about thisguy and not mean.
But time passes and people moveon and things we hadn't talked
in probably 15 years and, um, hehit me up out of nowhere, sent
me a text message and he said,hey, this is such and such.
I'm like, oh, my gosh, you know, hey, how's it going this and
that?
And you know that's probably aloaded question right, yeah, how
are you?
Yeah, you haven't talked in 15years.

(45:58):
And boom, long text right, I'mgoing through this and this is
what's happening.
And, um, you know, goingthrough a divorce, we've just
had our first child.
This is happening at work.
I'm stressed out.
But I'm just like, wow, andthis person, honestly, I never
would have thought this issomeone that kind of like the
top tier always does.
Well, you know, life looks likethey're doing great and you're

(46:20):
just like Whoa dude and Iremember I just immediately
called him and we just chattedfor a little bit.
I'm like, hey man, there'snothing I'm going to be able to
say to you that's going toreally bring peace to you right
now.
Besides, just mind, if I prayfor you, that's the best thing I
can do for you, but I've beenthere.
I know it's like going througha divorce.
That's terrible, it's a hard,hard thing, but it hard thing

(46:41):
but it's not the end.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
You know it's like.
I promise you it's not the end.
If I can make it through thatand the other things I've been
through, you're going to be fine.
But is it going to be a hardtime?
Absolutely.
It's going to be very difficult, but you have somebody that
loves you more than anyone inthis world will and he knows
what you're going through.
He knows that pain.
You just got to tell him man,talk to him, and then hearing

(47:04):
him break down the phone andpraying, and you know he texted
me this morning.
He's like man.
I'm so glad I called you.
He's like I was listening toyour podcast and you said you
came back to faith.
He's like you're the firstperson I want to talk to.
I'm like man, I appreciate that, but I'm like I'm nobody.
But you know, finding my faithagain and be able to minister.

(47:25):
You know, talk to people andnot force anything on them.
I'm not about that.
I'm not about, like you know,turn or burn, you know.
But it's like you said, just bethere.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Let them talk, walk with them through it.
You know, have that empathy andrealize, my goodness, dude,
people are hurting.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
And you want to tell them.
I have the answer.
Yeah, I got it for you, but thehard.
It's that thing where it's sohard because you don't see it.
But you got to have faith buthe's yet.
He's all around us.
You know and you want to.
It's like sometimes I stillstruggle with that, but it's
like if you just let it go.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Let it go, let him work, let him do what he's going
to do.
It's going to be okay, you know, and it's cool to hear him say,
like I finally felt a littlebit of peace.
He said he slept good lastnight, finally, and trying to
figure it all out, you know.
So it's really cool to know,and it's me agreeing with what
you said he doesn't wasteanything.
And like, when I think back onmy life and what I've been

(48:21):
through, it's so true how manypeople I've been able to just
sit there with them, as someonecalls it the pit.
You know, be in the pit withthem, like I don't say a word
usually, I just sit there.
Yeah, I tell them we don't haveto talk about any of it.
If you just want to hang out,like, let's go to the beach,
let's go surf, let's grab coffee, let's and they usually just

(48:47):
start talking and you just letit out.
You know, and you know, to methat's special, yeah, I think,
to have some people that you cantalk to and trust yeah that's
the biggest thing, is that trust.
You know you're not going tojust spread it out to everybody.
You can trust them with thatpain yeah um, a special.
You know, to me that's veryspecial and it's very hard to
find that nowadays with people.
So to to know people can trustyou, yeah, it's very special and
it's very hard to find thatnowadays with people.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
So, to to know people can trust you.
Yeah, it's huge, right?
Oh, yeah, it's, it's big.
Oh, we, we, we protect ourunderbelly, right?
Yeah, yeah, we do it's.
Uh, you know, we protect it.
And I think, in, you know, whenI first became a chaplain, you
know like I I show up to mystations I had a big old bag of
coffee I love hidden house andum, the cool spot in san anna,

(49:29):
but um, the guy with the ownerwas a military guy and believer,
yeah, like you know, just tryto.
I want to encourage guys at mystations and you know, and kind
of meet them, you know, and um,so I would drop off coffee for
them and um, just really try toconnect.
And it was the start.
It was the entry phase, kind ofof that of building trust.

(49:52):
Yeah, um, because I felt likeeven for a while, um, you know,
guys weren't calling, like yeah,it was quiet, um, but then I
knew like, okay, my guys in inmy area they were still going on
some of these hard calls and uh, but the more I would show up
and uh, just even to get to know.

(50:13):
You know some of the BCs andstuff and you know, it was just.
It was just, I don't know time.
And being consistent, show up.
You know which I can see is aministry of presence.
You know?
like, if you like, if you want,you want to be used by God and
show up.
You know like there's there'sbeen times to where I've had

(50:37):
opportunities to show up and youknow God's just like okay, here
you go.
You know, like you know thatI've I've had an opportunity to
show up.
Um, we had like, okay, here yougo.
You know, like you know, I'vehad an opportunity to show up.
We had a fire captain pass awayof cancer.
More recently, I had anopportunity to go to the
hospital with one of our otherchaplains and be with the family

(50:59):
this last Christmas.
The chaplains we just got likenumbered badges based off of the
number of chaplains that havebeen within our department.
Very cool, my badge number is27.
Okay, 27 was the last stationthat this captain was stationed

(51:21):
at.
Oh, wow, when I showed up atthe hospital, the captain's mom
was there.
I didn't know, you know, Ididn't know his family or his
mom.
So as soon as I walk up, Iended up seeing this lady that
you know had a hat on and I justgave her a hug and it was his
captain's mom and she looks in.

(51:42):
She was like you know, five,six.
I'm like, I'm like six, three.
You're very tall man and, uh,her like eye level was right at
my badge.
Yeah, so she looks at it, she's27.
Was that the station you're at?
And I said no, ma'am.
I said that you know, that's mythe chaplain.
I'm a chaplain and and she saysmy son was at station 27.

(52:03):
And she says I love number 27.
Now some backstory about mybadge number.
They asked me what my favoriteBible verse was and they wanted
to put the Bible verse on theback of our badges for all the
chaplains.
That's cool, which was awesome.
My favorite Bible verse isPsalm 27 one.

(52:25):
And the whole time, like I wasand I didn't know I was a 27th
chaplain in the history of ourdepartment yeah, um, so, uh,
this mom is struggling the lossof her son and she's quite,
she's asking, it's like she'swanting hope, like you know, and

(52:46):
she's locked in on number 27.
And she's asking she's wantinghope and she's locked in on
number 27,.
And she said that 27 is herfavorite number.
And I said 27 is my favoritenumber as well.
And I said my favorite Bibleverse is Psalm 27, 1.
And she looks up at me and shesays what is it?

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Beautiful.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
And I just said the Lord is my light and my
salvation.
Whom shall I fear?
The Lord is a stronghold of mylife.
Whom shall I be afraid?
And the whole time she askedcan you stay with me?
Wow, you know so it was aspecial moment.
I mean, they had, you know, acode honor in the hospital.
I had an opportunity to walkwith this family during this

(53:27):
time and it was just as a momlike this mom was.
Just I've been so locked in onnumber 27.
And you know, here God evenflipped it around, gave me an
opportunity to share a scriptureverse with her.
It brought her hope.
And then she asked if I wouldstay with her the rest of that

(53:48):
time.
And that's beautiful.
Yeah, there's a ministry ofpresence.
Yeah, like, if I'm not, if I'mnot showing up, then I don't.
I don't have that, I don't havethat story and how God uses
number 27, that.
And then I had no control overthat number, and then I had no
control over that number, nocontrol over that number, gosh
man.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Isn't hope such a powerful thing, powerful?
I mean.
Sometimes I wonder, how dopeople make it without having
faith in Jesus?
That's what I want to know,because I've been there and to
me it's a dark place.
Yeah, I mean, my goodness, I,you can, you'll cling to certain

(54:30):
things.
It'll just take you deeper andfarther down a dark hole.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
You know, and I just wonder, oh, my gosh, that's why
I was so, so big on hope,telling people hey, look,
there's hope, there's hope toget you out of these issues and
these problems that get youthrough the pain.
I mean just to be there withthat family.
I'm sure that, gosh, that justprobably meant the world to that
mom, because who, again?
No parent should have to burytheir child?

Speaker 2 (54:53):
No.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
That is.
It's a terrible thing, but justto be there in that presence
with them, I mean that's sopowerful and priceless.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
You know, that's my goodness, that that's my
goodness, that's what the Lordtells us to do, right?
Yeah, it's wild man, I know,but it's really interesting too,
the kind of the times we'reliving in.
I've wanted to kind of ask youabout this, but gosh, it's the
state of our country, not justour country, but the state of

(55:22):
the world.
I mean, you hear preacherstalking about a lot about
revelations and I mean I dothink the Lord's coming back, do
I?
Is it tomorrow?
No man knows, lord doesn't saythat, but gosh, it does seem
like things are lining up.
I don't know.
I've always wanted to kind ofask you about that, what your
thoughts are on that, if youhave anything to say about it,
because it's again, it's, uhknow, wild times man.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
I mean to me, we make sodom and gomorrah, we put in
shame.
Yeah, that's my thought.
Yeah, no, well, scripture saysyou're not going to know the
time right, the day or time ofwhen he returns, right?
Um, so how do you respond tothat?
The response is to be ready,yeah, right.
And like is your bags packed?
Are you, are you ready?
Do you know where you're going?
Are you saved?
So I think that's the firstthing is because you know even

(56:10):
the smartest Bible scholar.
You know they, they don't knowRight, and only God knows.
But yes, when you, you turn onthe TV, it seems hopeless.
Right, 100%.
It is scary and he has to bereturning soon, but we're not

(56:34):
going to know the time right.
We're not going to know the dayand the time?
Yeah, so I think, man, for meit's just a major call to action
.
I agree with you.
It's how like.
Is there one more?
Is there?
Is there, you know, hacksawRidge, right?

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Is there one more?
Just give me one more.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
And I think, um, you know, it's just man, I don't
know it.
It might be, it might be onemore person that says yes, that
says I believe, to worry when hereturns.
But so I, you know, my dad grewup in a Christian home and my
dad was like you know, this was,you know, 50 years ago.

(57:16):
He's man, jesus, has to bereturning soon.
Yeah, you know, and that's howI grew up with it too.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
So I think, even now, you know, but it is true, each
day, the next day, we see it'slike it's even closer, yeah, um,
but I personally I'm notgetting locked in on trying to
find out when it is same same.
I just want I'm, I feel likeI'm ready, my family ready, but

(57:45):
there's more people, there'sstill work to do.
There's still work to do.
There's more people who don'tknow Jesus yet.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
And it's like man.
That's the mission God'scalling me to.
My mission field is athleticsright now.
All I needed to to my missionfield is athletics.
Right now.
It might you know, I getopportunity to walk along as a
chaplain within athletics,within the fire service.
Now I'm also a chaplain for thepolice department in Santa Ana

(58:15):
PD.
Oh dude, that's huge.
Yeah, so it just came down inJanuary and so now it's just
like man to to walk alongside offirst responders and you know,
so it's been this like man.
Not how could I walk alongsideof people who are seeing things
that seem hopeless, right?

(58:36):
So how could I help bring hopeinto the room?

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
You know I took all the newsapps off my phone.
Most of them.
There's like one I keep, butit's just because every time I
put up my God, people areterrible.
You just look at it's like goodLord, what is going on in this
world?
But you, you bring up a reallygood point of there's still.

(59:01):
You know there's still work todo.
You know I I pay attention.
You know I read those thingsand I kind of grew up in a
Pentecostal home and you knowrevelations in times was a big
deal.
It's like okay, I get it.
He's coming back, like cool.
But I seem to pay attention toit a little more just because of
what's happening around theworld.
And even, like, what was theother day that they made

(59:27):
yesterday transgender likesomething I can't remember what
it was.
I'm like really, like of alldays you're gonna do it, like on
easter, like, come on, like,and I'd say this I don't look,
you people can make, make yourown decision.
I'm not one to judge because II have plenty of faults.
You can love what you love, dowhat you want to do, but I'm
just saying like you will beaccountable to it one day,
everybody will you know, but alldays we gotta do it on that day
yeah and there's one thingthat's been coming up on all

(59:49):
these uh feeds, the, the um, wasit the eclipse?
that eclipse, that's gone, gosh.
People are pulling on that sohard with conspiracy theories
and other things.
I'm like, look man, what'sgonna happen is gonna happen.
Just be ready.
That's why I always say just beready.
But I've noticed the more I talkabout my faith to people and it

(01:00:10):
becoming a little more bolderwith it, the more I'm noticing
more people are starting to kindof come back to their faith as
well.
They're like yeah, you know, Iactually started doing this and
reading this a little more andmy family's gone back to church
and I say, oh well, why look at,look what's happening in our
country, look what's happeningin our state, what's happening

(01:00:31):
around the world that people arekind of nervous like, well,
yeah, it's pretty wild.
It's almost like bad is good,good is bad.
You, you know, there was a.
There was a.
I think there was a preacher, Ithink it was on the east coast,
I don't know, know if you'veheard about this, but I guess he
went to an abortion clinic andprayed and he put him in jail.
Wow, yeah, I'm like huh,interesting.
Now would I go to abortionclinic and pray through the

(01:00:53):
halls?
Probably not, but I was still.
You know pray for these people,but that seems wild to me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
I don't think, like, what did the guy do wrong?
Yeah, you know he's justpraying for people, but it's
it's really to me I've.
It seems like more people arestarting to come back and
there's more of a you know, abit of a revival kind of
happening on.
That's just my opinion frompeople messaging me, messaging
me and talking to me.
I mean people that when you,I've known them for a while and

(01:01:21):
I've never had that kind of talkwith them or told them what the
Lord's done for me or how I'vechanged my life.
I just kind of live my life theway that.
I do you know?
And then they say hey, man, bythe way, I just became a
believer.
You're like what you Like whatit's like.
Oh no, you're cool.
I get it because my familythought I was a mess and they

(01:01:43):
didn't think it was serious atfirst.
But it's cool, I'm actually.
It's exciting to me the timesthat we're in.
Yeah, there's madness going on,but there's also a lot of kind
of awakening happening.
They're realizing, hey, like weneed Jesus in this world.
Man, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
There's a lot going on and they're worried about
their kids yeah, their familywhat their kids are being taught
in school, what's being forcedon them, Like again, like I
don't care what you do, but whydo we got to force them, Like,
how much do I got to play alongwith this, yeah, you know.
So it really does seem likethere's kind of an awakening
happening, a little bit of arevival, and it's cool to

(01:02:21):
somewhat be a part of it.
You know it becomes a annualevent.
I really want that to to turninto something and get more
people to come and have other,you know, Christian bands or
speakers, whatever it's going tobe, Cause it was so hard to
find someone to speak and Ithought it was going to connect
with people and that's why I waslike I'm just going to do it.
Yeah, I'm just going to go for.
It is what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Yeah, I well, I believe that you're just
scratching the surface.
For that, the first respondersnight of hope Um, I, I, I, just,
I really feel that firstresponders, they need hope.
Yeah, whether you're so you're,whether you're following Jesus

(01:03:02):
or not, whether you're a personof faith or not, yeah, um, you
need hope and I believe hope isa person and his name is Jesus.
I just, I don't know.
Even so, the first night, rightwalking in, I just felt there's

(01:03:26):
something different here and Ifelt like people were coming
into the room with burdensbecause life is hard, and
walking in and it's like man,I'm not alone.
I'm not alone.
I'm not alone in what I amcarrying, I'm not alone with
what I'm struggling with, thatthere's other people, that we're

(01:03:47):
all in this together.
We're going to encourage eachother, we're going to get
through it.
Yeah, you know I think youmentioned earlier Easter right,
the cross, the grave, the emptytomb.
The tomb is still empty.
Yeah, so I can still, today,run and see the tomb is empty.

(01:04:07):
Jesus is alive, he's alive andthe promise is that he's with us
.
So when we don't know what'sgoing on, when we feel like
we're going through this, orwhether it's cancer or divorce,
or you know, I had a cousin, whoyou know, who took her own life
.

(01:04:28):
You know, like 35 years ago, shewas a believer, she was
schizophrenic, manic-depressant.
Before all this, she went toChristian school, went to Bible
college, you know, and this waseven before like just the mental
health knowledge that we havenow, um, but she took her own

(01:04:51):
life, she felt, she felt likethat that was what God was
calling her to do, um, andthere's, but there's still hope,
like I've sitting with myfamily in Arizona, um, arizona,
of just mourning of whathappened and in the midst of
that there's still hope.

(01:05:12):
But, man, can we get tosomebody before that happens,
right, right, can we get tosomebody before that happens?
Can we get to first respondersbefore that happens?
Can we be the catalyst thatlowers that percentage?

(01:05:34):
Because I truly believe.
I believe if more peoplerespond, if more people show up
ministry of presence, andsomeone knows that they are not
alone, yeah, right, yeah,they're not alone.
And because that alone, thatalone peace is what leads people

(01:05:55):
into a bad spot.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
That's how I felt for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Yeah Alone.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
But really, if you were to take a step back, you
weren't alone.
You had people around you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Yeah, you know around you.
Yeah, I secluded myself.
I did it.
It was a conscious decision.
You know what it was.
It was the guilt and the shame.
It's like, oh, I don't want toLook what I've done.
I can't be around my family.
They're believers, Realizingthey still have their issues,
but they're too perfect.
It's embarrassing and justcutting everybody off.

(01:06:28):
And that's when I take a darkdive and it was such a bad place
to be in and you're right, it'sjust being there with somebody,
the presence.
And I recently have a familymember that's going through a
hard time and I was like, no,now is not the time to be alone.
Now is the time to spill yourguts to us.
Don't feel the shame, Don'tfeel the embarrassment.
Like all of us here have ourown issues and skeletons and

(01:06:52):
things that we've done.
You're not going to shock usLike we love you.
Tell us what's going on.
Tell if it's something you didthat was wrong.
It's okay.
We're not going to judge youLike we've all had some bad, bad
decisions.
But that's the thing I loveabout my family is we come
together.
Yeah, we put everything elseaside and we don't.
We don't say what you need tosay, because we're going to

(01:07:14):
figure it out.
You know we're going to bethere and that hope is so hope.
I thought about this the otherday.
I was at work, and it was thenight before Easter, I was
working Saturday and it was, youknow, good Friday just happened
.
And I thought about this Jeff,um, jesus died on that Friday.
Boy, what did?
What were the disciples and thelike?

(01:07:35):
What were people feeling onSaturday?
How hopeless, you think, theyfelt.
Yeah, even though, like, jesustold them, I'm going to be
raised again on the third day,right, but they just saw someone
get tortured and murdered, Imean unbearably, on a cross,
which probably had to betraumatic in itself.
And then, okay, that's it, it'sover.
Saturday comes, I wondered.

(01:07:57):
I'm like, boy, I wonder howthey felt, how that must have
been to experience that.
And even when the women went tothe grave and running back, oh,
he's not alive, no, he's here,yeah, he's here.
And then, boom, he appears andit's like, yeah, touch these
wounds.
Yeah, I'm alive.
But I always thought about, boy, I wonder what that was like on

(01:08:17):
that Saturday.
Yeah, how dark it must havefelt for them, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Bob Goff.
I love Bob Goff's quotes and Ifollow him on Twitter, but he
has a quote something along thelines of it's all on Good Friday
, like Jesus's followers,scattered, you know.
Darkness fell, it was chaotic,but then heaven just started

(01:08:48):
counting to three.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Ah, let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
So it brings hope to me.
Right, god was still in controlof that.
Yeah, because in the gardenbefore Jesus asked man if
there's any other way like Godfather, like can there's any
other way like God Father?
Like can there be any other way?
You know, but he knew there wasno other way.
You know, it was a part of theirplan from the very beginning.

(01:09:14):
It was a part of a rescue planfor me, for you, like for
everybody.
But so the Roman soldiers, theythought they were doing
something good, yeah, right,yeah, um.
But then, heaven, on friday man, heaven just started counting
to three, because three dayslater he rose from the tomb and

(01:09:38):
then he started appearinghimself to everybody and that he
was alive.
You know, and on sunday morningI always think about he's a
Mary and Martha, right, they'rethe first two to run to the tomb
, yeah, you know.
And then word got, and then thedisciples ran to the tomb to
see for themselves, you know,and I'm not a fast runner man,

(01:10:01):
but I picture myself right, Iwould be.
that would be the fastest I'drun.
Oh the adrenaline.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Absolutely, was it.
Who was it, isn't it?
Peter said like it was Peter,yeah, I ran, I made it there
first.
Yeah, he is, is that?

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
is the athlete.
Yeah, he had to put that in.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
I do, I think I'm faster.
Yeah, what's so unique too, youknow, is when he did when they
look in the grave, you know hefolded his, the garments that he
was in.
Yeah, I always find that sounique.
I'm just like I wonder why hefolded it.
I wonder what that's about, youknow, it's really interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
Well, here's the thing, and I don't know, this is
just my two cents from a Santaand a kid my two cents is that
if someone took them, they'renot going to fold.
They're not going to fold hisclothes.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
That's a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
It's a very good point, but if it was part of a
plan, right yeah.
And if the stone was moved fromthe inside out which it was, it
wasn't moved from someone fromthe outside to come in, it was
from the inside out, and so inhere it was Jesus, right?

(01:11:16):
So he's going to leave.
He's going to leave it rightthere.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
It's so beautiful.
Yeah, Dude, it's gosh.
I'm trying to get choked upbecause it's so.
He did it for us, man yeah it'ssuch a.
It's a.
It's a brutal story yeah it'svery harsh, that type of death
that people don't know, like ifyou really do the research.
I remember reading into it man,I mean you can't.

(01:11:42):
He was unrecognizable yeah atsome point he was beaten and
tortured so much, and then torise from the dead and bring
that joy, that hope, thesalvation.
You're redeemed, it's over theveil's torn.
You can come to me now.
And I remember telling somebodyand I've heard this so many
times that stone in front of histomb wasn't rolled away for him

(01:12:04):
to get out.
That was for them to look inand see like, hey, it's complete
, it's done, it's amazing, it'sso miraculous man.
And my favorite line it's inthe book of Luke, when Mary and
Martha were there and they sawthe angel, right One.
If I saw an angel, bro, I'm soglad.
They always say to do not beafraid, because I'm a scary

(01:12:26):
person.
I get, I get jump scared realor quick, right, you see
something that magnificent, yeah, I'm gonna run.
So the fact that they even juststayed there and started
talking right is amazing.
But he said why are you lookingfor the living among the dead?
He's not here, he is alive.
Yeah, oh, dude.
When he says, why are youlooking for the living among the
dead?
Like that line, it gives megoosebumps.

(01:12:47):
Yeah, it's amazing, it'spowerful.
Yeah, it's redemption.
Yeah, it's a like dude, he, hefinished it, he did it for us.
Like he made a way out, we'regonna be okay.
Yeah, it's out, dude, like I'mjust gonna get this now dog,
because there's a song by philwickham.
It's called sunday is coming, ohyeah, and I love listening to
that because he builds up inthat song and he has that line

(01:13:11):
in there why are you looking forliving among the dead?
He's alive.
He's alive, hallelujah, he isalive.
And when I play that, I blastit.
I blast it because it's apromise that was fulfilled and
all his promises are true.
It's such an amazing day andit's the greatest day in history
.
Yeah, greatest comeback of alltime is what I always say oh
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Yeah, no, big time.
Yeah, I love worship music.
It's my go-to.
Worship music's my go-to.
I definitely feel like that manwhen I'm having a day that Phil
Wickham's on the list the newMatthew West Don't Stop Praying.

(01:13:54):
He's good, that's another goodone.
I Speak Jesus.
There's some really goodChristian music that's out.
I find hope in that, 100%.
Yeah, it's God's word that'sbeing sung.
But yeah, I just think of manwhen I'm questioning things.

(01:14:15):
I'm struggling with something.
That's my God's word prayer andthen worship music.
But yeah, coming out of easter,those who are following jesus,
we get to live our lives likeevery day, as if it's easter
sunday morning.
Oh, I love it.
That is so true.
Is that that's?

(01:14:36):
That's the game, like that'swhat we're doing, that's, I mean
, that's we're following himevery day.
It's like easter Sunday morning.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Gosh.
You know, I've noticed, justfrom playing music and writing
music, a lot of times wherewords fail, for me music takes
over.
It doesn't even have to havelyrics, I can just listen to
music and you know whensomething's good, it doesn't
matter what style, what country,where it's coming from.
When you feel it, you're in it,dude, you're like, oh yeah,

(01:15:04):
this is good, you're jamming,You're doing your thing, and
it's one of those things for me,like worship music, just the
hope that it has in it.
It's reminders.
It's a reminder like we'regoing to be okay, you're good.
And it's also for me during thetough times or questioning or
I'm down.

(01:15:27):
It tough times, or questioningor I'm down it's a way of me to
remind myself to give him praiseand acknowledge like I'm
hurting and this is hard, butI'm going to sing, I'm going to
keep going.
I'm still going to be in yourpresence.
Right now I don't know what'sgoing on.
This is not cool, but I'm goingto be in it, we're going to go
for it.
So I agree with you Do it ahundred percent, a hundred
percent.
But, jeff, we, we gotta wrapthis up.
Man, thank you so much forcoming on.

(01:15:47):
Are you, are you guys?
Are you gonna be involved withyour family's company making
bats still, or no, you kinda allthe way out.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
I'm all the way out.
I still go and support them.
I still stop by.
Okay, hang with my dad andbrother over there.
And yeah, still, I still lookfor the bats on TV Like I can't
watch the game the same.
Yeah, yeah, but I definitely amrooting for guys that are using
the bats.
You know Gavin Lux, you knowwith the Dodgers, that's super

(01:16:14):
cool.
Yeah, corey Seager with theRangers.
Yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
I'm happy for your family.
I think that's unique and socool, man.
Keep going, dude.
And what you're doing withbeing a chaplain and supporting
us, um, you know it's pricelessman.
I can tell you just just fromthe time you came to the station
when we needed you, when Ineeded you, and then just
meeting up with me and being amentor, it's meant the world.
Um, you know it's.
You may not see a reward now,but I'm telling you it'll be

(01:16:46):
probably tenfold in the nextlife.
So please, keep doing whatyou're doing, man.
Be there for us.
I love you, dude.
Honestly, you're becoming sucha good friend.
I'm thankful for you to come onthis podcast.
I actually hope you come backon, which would be really cool.
Bring another chap and we'llchat it up and talk.
But, jeff, thank you so much,man for being here, coming on
mentoring me and just being whoyou are, man.
It's very inspiring, it reallyis.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Yeah, I love you, tim .
Keep up the good work, man.
Yeah, you just got to theservice of the first responders
night of hope.
And yeah, how, how I canpartner with you and encourage
you.
And yeah, keep up the good work.
And yeah, keep responding.
Keep responding to people's baddays.
And and know that there's ateam of people that are praying
for you, walk alongside of you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
I appreciate that man .
You're the man, bro.
I got a challenge coming foryou too.
But hey, we end every podcastwith a let's go on three.
Are you ready?
Yeah, let's do it.
One, two, three, let's go.
Bye everybody.
Thank you so much for listeningin.
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(01:17:49):
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(01:18:11):
Bye everybody.