June 6, 2024 • 37 mins
How does one navigate life after losing a parent at a young age? Michael Marshall joins us to share his deeply moving journey growing up in Portsmouth, Virginia, where he faced the heart-wrenching loss of his mother to breast cancer at the tender age of nine. From the cultural stigmas surrounding mental health in the black community to the silent struggle of unprocessed grief, Michael's story is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the transformative power of seeking help.
Michael recounts his challenging transition from the bustling pace of New York City back to Cavalier Manor. The move brought significant behavioral and academic hurdles, further complicated by negative influences and a stern upbringing from his grandfather. Despite the stability provided by sports, Michael's tumultuous life led to him being put out of his home. These experiences, however painful, were pivotal in shaping his character and guiding him toward advocacy.
Michael's tireless dedication to restorative justice and prisoner reentry shines throughout our conversation. As an advocate for formerly incarcerated individuals, he passionately discusses the systemic issues faced by children of incarcerated parents and the urgent need for comprehensive support systems. From policy changes to the importance of involving victims in the healing process, Michael's insights are both inspiring and essential. Don't miss this powerful episode—subscribe now and be part of these thought-provoking conversations every Friday.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chuck (00:10):
Hey, welcome back to another episode of let's Just
Talk About it podcast.
I'm your host, chuck, and ifyou're here for the first time,
this platform was created togive genuine people just like
you an opportunity to share aportion of your life's journey.
So, with that being said, todayI have Michael Marshall on with
me today, sharing a part of hisjourney growing up in the city
of Portsmouth, virginia, andalso his passion as an advocate
(00:33):
to help men and women with theirreentry from prison back into
society.
So, hey, you don't want to missthis amazing conversation today
.
As a matter of fact, do me afavor Go and grab your husband,
your wife, your children, oreven call a friend and gather
around to listen to myconversation with Michael on
let's Just Talk About it podcast.
Hey, let's jump right in.
(00:58):
Welcome back to another episodeof let's Just Talk About it
podcast Today.
I have Mike Marshall on with metoday.
How's it going, mike?
Hey, doing great, chuck.
Thank you for asking, brother.
Yes, sir man, good to have youon.
I'm glad to be here, mike.
I love to jump right into myinterviews to have those genuine
conversations with genuinepeople just like yourself, you
know, just to share a portion ofyour life's journey.
Michael Marshall (01:25):
So the first question I want to start off
with is where are you from?
Where did you grow up at?
Well, originally, when I wasyounger, my mom was actually
living in public housing.
We were in Ida Barbar PublicHousing for the earlier part of
my years and then, from there,when my mom passed away, we went
to live with my grandmother inCavalier Manor.
Chuck (01:44):
Wow, so your mom passed away at an early age.
Michael Marshall (01:47):
Right, yeah, so I believe I was nine years
old when my mom passed away frombreast cancer.
She was 35 years old.
Chuck (01:56):
Did that impact you?
You know, like being a youngguy growing up in Outer Barber,
Did that impact you a lot?
Michael Marshall (02:04):
Yeah, so you, you know here we go.
So when you think about someone, nine years old, um, growing up
without a mother, you know wedidn't know about being
traumatized at that point, wedidn't know about the pain and
suffering that comes with.
You know the emotional scarsthat you know one endure.
From luc, you know lifecontinued to go on and so, as
(02:26):
kids, you continue to do whatkids do, you play, you enjoy,
you know whatever life is andbut as you get older, you know
you realize that some of thebehavior that you probably have
developed has been a result ofhaving that hole, that missing
piece of your life.
And yeah, yeah, and so a greatdeal of my life, um, never
really knew why.
(02:47):
You know, um, I just couldn't,you know, let that part of me go
, let that part of life go, andand so it always came back for
me, always, and so, um, yeah,man, that was, that was a tough
blow at nine years old, verytough, wow, you the oldest.
No, so I, so I'm number five ofseven.
Yeah, so I had a total of sevensiblings.
(03:10):
I've lost several siblings alongthe way.
I lost one of my sisters earlyon in life, when I was living,
actually, because I was in NewYork After my mom passed.
I went to New York for a shortperiod of time to live with some
family and when I was in NewYork my sister was there also
with me one of my sisters andshe had met this older guy and
(03:31):
ended up getting in arelationship and she was back
and forth from New York back toVirginia.
And we get that phone call oneday, man, that they had found my
sister in the house and she hadexpired, had passed away from,
looks like somebody had poisonedher.
But we never really found out.
And you know again, you knowthe trauma, the grief, the hurt,
(03:53):
the pain, yeah, yeah, it wasdeep, right, yeah.
And so then you know, I hadlost another sister to breast
cancer at the age of 33, I wantto say I, I believe 33 or 34.
I lost my baby sister to breastcancer.
So she would go, she would, youknow, I mean dying from the
same sickness that my mom had.
(04:13):
But you know, man, these things,man, life still go on yeah and
you still process it the bestway you can, but they affect you
in so many areas of your life.
So I always continue to beaffected, because I remember a
lot of times you don't want togo to counseling because we've
been taught in the blackcommunity that it's taboo for to
talk to someone about you know,your loss or your grief, and so
(04:37):
what happens in the house staysin the house.
That's what your parents toldyou when I was growing up.
Don't you tell nobody?
Chuck (04:42):
what's going on in?
Michael Marshall (04:43):
this house.
Right, that's right.
Yeah, and so, man, for a longtime I couldn't talk about the
thing that I had to do.
It was only when I became anadult man that, you know, I
began to really kind of seek outbecause I couldn't understand
why I wasn't functioning.
You know the way, in terms ofin relationships, man and I
(05:03):
didn't make the connection, andthen one of the therapists had
told me and this is why I'm anadvocate, man for nail, nail.
It used to be a time where youknow, I'm not talking about it,
I feel like that.
You know, I'm the tough guy.
I got my chest poked out and Isaid you know what?
I got this, that's what I usedto say.
I got this came at me and, man,but at some point, yeah, yeah,
(05:28):
so at what point, man, do you,you can't suck it up forever.
And I kept trying to suck it up, suck it up, suck it up, but at
some point, man, you, youexplode because you can't suck
it up anymore.
And that's what happened inlife, man, you know, because
everything I was sucking up, man, it was going nowhere, but
inside of me, and, and that cancause a person to at some point
you, it's got to go, so you endup exploding, right.
So and so, man, yeah, and sotoday, you know, I've been real.
(05:53):
I'm very actively, um,supportive of people, man, who
may not want to go to therapyand counseling, because I know
that the brothers, in particularafric-American men, you know
we're less likely to go to gettreatment because we've been
told again that you know you gotit and uh, but what do you do,
though?
What do you really really do?
And that's why you're seeingright now, man, a lot of people
(06:14):
are emotional, bankrupt,emotional, mentally,
psychologically scarred man,because they don't know how to
deal with the trauma and thepain, and so hurt people, hurt
other people.
And so, you know, yeah, and andthat's what we're seeing now, a
lot of hurt people are runningaround hurting other people
because they don't know what todo with all of those emotional
(06:37):
things that they, that they,have endured through life, man,
and so, uh, so, yeah, so I, Istrongly, again, I strongly, man
, recommend, you know someone,man, that's been having these
type of things, that haschallenged them, to seek out
some help.
Man, you know, put aside, man,that ego man.
You know we become egotisticalmaniacs, and so we don't want,
(06:57):
you know, no one to know thatwe're hurting deep inside right
and but you know it's better manto get that out you than to
keep it in you.
Because I right and but youknow it's better man to get that
out you than to keep it in you,because I can tell you one
thing for sure, man, it'sdefinitely gonna stagnate you in
a lot of ways.
But, yeah, chuck, so I you know.
So, man, um, but losing lovedones like that man at an early
age, man, it left a hole in myheart, man, but now and I know
(07:18):
how to work through those things, even with the recent loss of
my brother, pain is pain, youknow, hurt is hurt, but because
I learned how to work through itand seek out the type of
resources you know what I mean Ireally feel that can be
beneficial to me.
I think the healing process hasbeen a little better for me
this time than it's ever beenbefore.
(07:39):
And so you know that deaththere with my brother man, you
know me and my brother man,we're very close.
Wow, you know I got fourbrothers, man, everybody that
knows us know we're very close.
So but the loss of him, man,really thankful.
Chuck (07:51):
Yes, it's deep man.
You never know what people gothrough, man, you never know
what they've come through to bethe way they are today.
Exactly, yes, you're exactlyright.
If we hold that emotion on theinside, eventually it's going to
come out in the wrong way.
Michael Marshall (08:06):
Yes, yeah.
Chuck (08:07):
So, as you you know, you transitioned from New York City
back to Cavalier Manor.
How was that for you from thatpoint on growing up?
Michael Marshall (08:17):
Yeah, so right .
So, look, that's an interestingquestion.
I'm glad you asked that becausewhen I came back from from new
york I'm born and raised from,you know, from portsmouth.
Now when I went to new york, Iwas, it was at an early age and
so I had cousins, man, you know,it was like on steroids to cry
in there.
Compared to you know, comparedto you know, you know, they used
(08:40):
to call me country man becauseyou know, you're coming from the
south and you know, and theyget a chuckle out.
You know, I mean that accentthere and so.
But, man, I'm being in a bigcity, man, you know, at 12 years
old, learning your way, tryingto figure things out, because my
father was, you know, was therebut and I had an uncle that was
there, but my grandmother on mydad's side supposedly had been,
(09:00):
you know, providing, and Iremember one day, man, when she
told me that you know providing.
And I remember one day, man,when she told me that, you know,
she just didn't have all theresources that she needed to
take care of me and one of mysisters that was there in New
York.
She used to tell my grandmotherback here in Virginia.
She said y'all need to get Mikeout of New York because he's
running wild.
I didn't even realize at 12 or13 how wild that I was running
man, because I wasn't even in myright grade, and that's another
(09:23):
thing, man.
You know, I had to come back toVirginia.
When I got back to Virginia, mygrandmother had to get me in my
right grade, because mygrandmother in New York she kind
of dropped that ball and Iwasn't even in school for a
whole year, wow, and so thatthat pushed me behind for a
whole year, and so eventually,when I got back in Virginia
system though, I eventuallycaught back up and I don't think
(09:44):
I really truly caught back up,but I think that I was yeah,
yeah.
So I don't think I truly caughtup in terms of my age and stuff
, but I caught up in terms ofacademic Right, and so yeah.
But when I came back trying toreadjust, I noticed that I was a
little more advanced for a 12or 13.
(10:07):
I can't remember that, probably12 or 13.
Right, but I was so advanced inmy behavior man was just had
adjusted to city life, and soeven when yeah, so even when I
came back here in Virginia, man,I still had another type of
mentality at that early age.
Wow, because I had a youngcousin that they taught me all
(10:28):
the bad things, man, you know,they was hustling a little weed
and you know, and this is atearly ages, right, and so I got
it.
Yeah, and so I get exposed tosome things that I shouldn't
have got exposed, that mygrandparents here back in
Virginia probably did not evenhave a clue.
But that was city life, man, itwas just a fast pace and um and
so.
But eventually I got back inand in school and, you know,
(10:49):
started playing sports.
Man, I was, you know, I'mpretty good.
I played football, um, atWaters, w Waters, I don't know
if you remember Waters, yeah, Iremember, you know.
Yeah so.
I, yeah, I played for Mounted,but I was at Waterloo though,
okay.
But you know, in the eighthgrade you can play JV, jv,
that's right, so I played JV,right, yeah, so I played JV.
Yeah, so back during that time.
So I played JV football and Iwas probably one of the few that
(11:15):
was on the JV basketball in theeighth and ninth grade.
Chuck (11:19):
So I was real active in sports.
Yeah, all around sports man.
Michael Marshall (11:22):
Yeah, yeah, man, I was real active Football
was really true to my sport.
I played tailback for two years, man, up until you know school.
Just, you know, I guess, lifeand trauma, crisis, and the
trauma again, man, just, I nevershook it, man, and I remember,
(11:43):
man, remember, man, I juststopped going man around about
the 10th grade, you know, I said, well, you know, um, I'm not
going no more man.
And and I pretty much, man,made that decision on my own.
And when I did, my grandfathernever forget my grandfather's,
you know was a type of guy hewas, you know, very stern, very
strict man.
You know, he was a hard workingguy, you know military, you
know, had done security, he was,you know, but he was a
hard-working guy.
You know military, you know,had done security, he was, you
know, but he was a hard-workingman.
(12:04):
He said, either work you know,work school, or military, or you
know, you ain't gonna stay inmy house.
And I remember, man, I wasdoing all the bad stuff and I
got caught, man, and I was a man, I was, I was really a bad guy,
man at an early age, gotcha andunfortunately, because of the
exposure, man, mm-hmm and so,but that led me, man, to my
(12:25):
grandfather putting me out, andthat's, you know, because of you
know.
I mean, I had a gun in his houseand you know all the bad things
, man, that you don't thinkabout when you're young, you
just think that it's normal.
Okay, we got a little gun andyou know, we don't you know, but
it wasn't like that we wererunning around hurting people,
it was just the thought of itthat we had.
It wasn't like that, right,yeah, because it wasn't like on
(12:47):
the level of violence what wesee today.
But as young guys, we, you know, just was exploring down those
kind of avenues.
That wasn't safe for us.
But I can't even tell you rightnow how I even got the weapon,
but but I was young, you know.
Chuck (13:00):
Yeah, I got you right.
I got you, yeah, wow.
So moving on, man, we met onsaint brides correctional.
You know what I'm saying?
that was my first time meetingmike marshall and right, yeah
going back when I, when I metyou, right, you was all about
getting out or helping the guysin there to get their lives back
(13:21):
on track.
That's all I saw Mike Marshalldoing was a man that was
determined when he got out, itwas no looking back.
And now you're doing the samething, helping guys who come and
women, I believe who come outto help them to stay out.
Correct, correct, wow, correct,correct, wow.
Michael Marshall (13:47):
And you have a have a documentary man that you
executive produced called theReentry Advocates of Virginia
Documentary man.
Talk about that.
So before I get there, so letme go back a little bit.
All right, let's go back.
So yeah, so let me let merewind, Like so, when I was in
the system, I never reallyaccepted that was going to be my
life or that's who I was.
That's what I'd done, but thatwasn't who I was.
(14:10):
Wow.
Chuck (14:10):
Does that make?
Michael Marshall (14:11):
sense, okay, that's what I'd done, I'd done a
crime that ended me there, butthat wasn't who I was.
Because, if you think back, man, a lot of us came up, you know,
in well-to-do families,two-parent homes, I mean, excuse
me, two-parent families, youknow, sort of middle class, you
know, but we still made some baddecisions.
It wasn't because we wasn'traised properly, because I got a
(14:33):
good upbringing, although youhear my earlier journey about me
, my journey of a winding roadgoing down these different paths
.
That happened because of Mike'schoice.
Journey about me, my journey ofa winding road going down these
different paths, that happenedbecause of mike's choice, not
because that I was right.
I didn't, I didn't have to godown there, right?
Yeah?
so you can, so we can relateright.
So before there even was, youknow I mean a, a having a little
(14:54):
firearm or having some weed, oryou know I mean doing something
that was illegal.
There was a time where mikewasn't exposed to any of that
and that he was raised, going tochurch, um, doing all the
positive, productive things, hada little job and those sort of
things.
But I got off track.
I got off track because I madea decision.
I made the poor decision, poorchoice that I wanted.
(15:16):
Right, exactly, man.
And so, even if I fail when Ifast track this story to respond
to what you were saying, I endup inside of a prison at an
early age in which you didn'tknow I had been to prison before
.
Unfortunately I had been.
I got charged at 17 years old,me and some more guys from
(15:38):
around Cabellet Mountain.
We got charged with, you know,it's kind of petty, petty
robbery charge.
You know, uh, nobody was hurt,anything like that.
It was petty, but it still wasa was a charge.
Right, it's still valid, um,and so I didn't learn anything
when I was incarcerated for thatshort three years that I went
in at an early age and so Ilived the same lifestyle that I
(16:00):
knew I was planning on livingwhen I got out and I did what I
was is I positioned myselfaround even more sophisticated
criminals, you know, and tryingto plot and scheme on how we
were going to get.
You know all these ideas to getback in the drug game and make
lots of money, that type ofthing because I was not ready
for change.
Change is something that comesfrom winning.
You know what I and so when Imet you by that time I want to
(16:23):
say I was in my late 20s, wow.
And so everything had evolved.
So now, as I played the tapeall the way through right which
that's what I was doing I hadplayed the tape all the way
through, mike.
What are you gonna do?
This is your second time.
You're in late 20s.
You got two children.
Um, what are you going to do?
This is your second time You'rein late twenties.
You got two children.
What are you going to do whenyou get out?
(16:44):
Because I will never forget, aguy told me.
He said man, if you go back outthere with the same thing, he
said, if we go back out therelike that, he said, man, it may
be a luxury for us to make itback because they die.
And I said, whoa, it may be aluxury to come back.
He said, yeah, dying.
And I said, whoa, it may be aluxury to come back.
He said, yeah, because they'redying out there.
And that stuck with me and Iremember man from the rest of my
(17:06):
being and doing and serving mysins.
I said to myself.
I said, man, I'm going to find away to come up with a strategic
plan that's going to line me upfor success.
But I got to start living theway that I want to live out
there.
I started not to accept theprison, man, you know, I used to
(17:27):
get up, man, and when y'allused to see me moving about my
mind, man was focused.
I was focused, and if a man'smind don't change, progress is
impossible.
Wow.
And so when my mindset changed,everything started changing
around me.
I prayed, I said God, you know,god, just show me the way I put
down having whatever kind ofreputation you think that you
had, emotionally,psychologically, spiritually.
(17:48):
I put all that in the trash,can, man?
Because I knew that if I didn'tchange before I got out, it was
impossible for me to now get tothat time and be able to open
(18:10):
these gates, these doors.
And I'm going back out thereand I had not put in no work.
You got to put in work, man,and I put in a lot of work.
Man, right, like, and I put ina lot of work man, yeah, you
have, Like you said, chuck, Iput in a lot of work with
working with people, that Ithought that would better
position me to be successful andto do the thing that I enjoy
doing, which was giving back.
I found my passion, whichultimately, you find your
(18:32):
purpose.
My passion was helping otherpeople.
Chuck (18:35):
Yeah, that's for sure.
Michael Marshall (18:37):
Right.
And so that right.
And so when I was released, thefirst first thing I then I
ended up taking the same trade Ihad.
I was working in norfolk statein food service, because that's
what I done when I was inside,you know, I mean I.
And then I started working in alibrary.
So when I went, when I workedin a library, inside institution
, I learned the whole deweydecimal system I could.
I used to get quoted the backof my head, right I, you know,
(18:59):
because I became obsessed withbooks, right, right and reading,
and that's what propelled me.
You know, when I came home andyou know, I got a job in Norfolk
State, they told me they hadnever hired, nobody.
But this is how critical it is,you never know who's watching
you.
The same man that I was workingfor as an aide, mr Owens, may
(19:19):
he rest in peace he was thefirst person that went and
advocated for me.
And so when you invest in, youknow how you got investments.
People invest in houses, theyinvest in the stock market, they
invest in you know what I meanother things in life but when
you invest in a human being, man, and you invest in a human
infrastructure, you're talkingabout changing lives.
That man changed my life whenhe invested in me, and so you
(19:43):
know what I reciprocated, thatwhat he done for me is what God
has allowed me to do for otherpeople.
I invest in the humaninfrastructure of people.
I believe that there's hopeafter prison, there's hope after
jail, you know, people don'thave to continue to go back on
that perpetual cycle, and soI've learned that it has to be a
mind changing experience.
So people that I've engaged inthose type of conversations now
(20:07):
and not just that man I givethem the blueprint that I had.
I got the blueprint to stay out.
I've been off for 20 years now,but that was a systematic
approach and process that keptme where I'm at today, and I
credit God man, I came to thisinterview and not credit God for
everything that he does.
He changed that criminalmindset that I had, you know,
(20:27):
because I never consideredmyself a thug anyway.
I just had a criminal mindset,you know.
But criminality right, yeah,and God changed that, chuck, and
I'm thankful, man.
Chuck (20:38):
Wow, mike, shout out to you.
Man Shout out to you.
Thank you, brother, shout outto you.
So let's talk about thedocumentary.
Can we talk about that now?
Yeah, yeah.
Michael Marshall (20:48):
So let's delve into the documentary.
I never see things just solelyabout me.
I like to bring other peoplealong.
My work has been centered andgeared around advocacy.
So I do a lot of advocate workbecause people need a voice, and
so in the Bible it talks aboutbeing that voice in the
wilderness.
And I have said to God, let mebe that.
(21:10):
Yeah, let me be that voice inthe wilderness for others.
And I have a voice right now.
Over the last 20 some years,every platform or every space
that I have been in, I have beenable to be an advocate, not
just about Mike, because God hadblessed me and I could have
went on and found a whole notherindustry to get in and made me
a little bit of money or moremoney, and been OK.
(21:33):
But that wasn't enough for meand so the documentary came
about.
I've been wanting to work on adocumentary for the last 15, 16
years and so, but I didn't haveall the resources to try to
bring it together.
Man, but when you faithful togod, man, god will make room.
He will make room for thosegifts y'all.
And this is what's happening.
So I brought along all theseother advocates because that
(21:54):
really what you see in thedocumentary really is not the
full.
It's called a proof of concept.
Okay, the proof of concept isto show people what's to come
see the.
It's a full documentary.
I'm trying to do a 90-minutedocumentary.
That got it done.
It's proof of concept.
We just needed some content toput out there to show other
people that this is thedirection we're headed.
These are some of the areasthat we want to address.
(22:16):
You know, when it comes toreentry and everybody that knows
me knows I have a strongpassion for kids that have
parents incarcerated, becausewhen I think about my own life I
realize that it's so many, andespecially in the
African-American community youknow the families are broken
because the males are not there.
When you can walk on a prisoncampus and you can see a father
(22:37):
and a son and maybe sometime agrandson on the same institution
, that's a problem.
That's a problem.
And that cycle man is what gotus where we're at today.
No one is out here guiding theseyoung men, these young kids,
man, and they're looking a lotof them.
You know people.
It's easy for us to look atthem and judge them and say,
yeah, and I'm not justifying thebehavior, but what I'm saying
(22:59):
is we got to go deeper.
We got to go to the root causeof how these young men got these
guns in their hands.
Absolutely, you know what Imean.
There's violence and it goesback to violence.
People hurt, people hurt otherpeople, right.
And so when you look at theseyoung men that's out here, man
and not just young men, youngwomen now they're committing
some of these violent acts, man,is because they're lost and
(23:21):
they're looking for someone toguide them and it's just not
there.
And so what they do?
They turn to what they thinkthey love the most and those are
the people that they canidentify with, and those are
people that's out there in thestreets doing what they do.
But, man, we got to go to theroot of this problem, man,
because if not, you know, Ican't even imagine what it will
look like 15, 20 years from now.
(23:43):
You know what I mean, with somany young people dying and so
many continue broken homes.
So I'm looking for solutions,man, on how I can be in a
partner.
So I've only got theseadvocates.
So I have all these advocatesthat are mentors, right, and so
they are willing to work and dowork in the community, to work
with other organizations orwhoever that wants to partner
with us, so we can you know whatI I mean be a voice to that
(24:05):
missing piece.
You know we're not going tochange everybody, but we want to
do, we're trying to do, ourpart.
So the documentary is only togive a little bit exposure to
what advocates are doing outhere, because a lot of times
they're not going to make thenews, they're not going to make
podcasts, they're not going toyou know me be recognized on any
kind of platform, gettingawards, but they're doing the
work behind the scenes becausethey like the boots on the
(24:25):
ground but people never see them, right, right, but they're
moving.
And so when I done this, I saidI wanted to get these
individuals exposed to sharingtheir stories, their stories of
overcoming their past, becauseyou know, we released look, 95%
of the people in prison will beout one day, right, so they're
coming back to your communitiesanyway, whether people want them
(24:46):
.
And I want to show these typeof things in the documentary to
show that we have a major issuewhen it comes to employment.
You know what I mean barrierswhen it comes to housing
barriers, people not gettingenough substance abuse services
because they don't have accessto it.
Again, mental health right, andso when we think about, you
know, all of these differentbarriers before people and they
(25:07):
don't have true access to it.
Because we don't have a wholelot of prisoner reentry programs
and I can really point out Idon't want to go, you know.
I mean I don't want to go deepinto how many we have, but we
still are in dire need.
Restorative justice thatparticular piece is something
that I have put a lot of focusand emphasis on, because, while
(25:27):
I believe that a man or womanshould get a second chance or
first opportunity after theyhave served their time, they're
becoming taxpaying citizens, sowe expect people to pay taxes,
but they can't vote.
Something is wrong with thatpicture.
So we need some policy changes.
We need, you know, because alot of policies they're old on
our books in Virginia and insome other states, depending on
(25:48):
what state you're in Now.
Virginia has came far in termsof doing some reentry work or
providing some reentry servicesduring pre-incarceration, but
it's still not enough.
We still haven't went far.
Still not enough.
We still haven't went far.
But I'm gonna go back, becausethe restorative justice is just
basically people um being heldaccountable for the crime that
(26:10):
they're committed, because Ibelieve that families that have
been greed and been hurt I don'tthink that we, you know I mean
want to overlook that andminimize that.
And so I've had a big um.
I've been having a lot ofdiscussion around pointing out
you know, how do we involvevictims in our documentary?
How do we, how do we interviewthem?
(26:30):
Because I want them to knowthat we do care about that too.
Yeah, right, exactly, and it'snot just about me, uh, my
friends making parole or gettinga light of sentence or whatever
.
We got hurting people out hereand people have to be held
accountable.
Then some people, you know, maynever you, but I think that it
speaks volume when a man can say, yeah, I'm out, but I have not
(26:52):
forgotten about the wrong thatI've done.
But can I make it right andhopefully that the family would
understand I can't bring yourloved ones back, I can't undo
what I've done, but what I cando, moving forward, is not let
that crime be in vain.
And so when I think about, youknow, those particular incidents
where I've talked to victimsand I've talked to their loved
(27:13):
ones and families who have notgotten to the point of
forgiveness.
I go and I have talked toadvocates that does the work
that I do and I've been sharingwith them that it needs to be a
greater push for thatrestorative justice piece
because we don't hear about it alot, because we always hear
about people wanting a secondchance or another opportunity
(27:34):
and we always hear about youknow me, woes me, and but we
sometimes often intentional orunintentional forget about the
ones that have been impacted bysomething that we've done and
still hurting, and so you know,and so a lot of my work, and
even with juveniles, when Ithink about young people, if
there was something that wecould implement, they need to
(27:55):
understand the impact of theirdecision nature right, because
these are kids killing kids andthey don't realize that your
behaviors and your choices ofdoing what you do don't impact
just you in that person, itimpacts everybody that's
connected to you as theperpetrator as well as the
victim.
So everybody on both sides, sonobody wins.
(28:16):
So how can we break this cycle?
You know, I mean this perpetualcycle of young men who have
this self-hate and I'm going tobe honest with you, I really
believe that a lot of it man hashave this self-hate, and I'm
going to be honest with you Ireally believe that a lot of it,
man, has came from self-hate,because you can see a man just
like you, that looks just likeyou, and it's so easy for you to
pull the trigger and kill himBecause you're looking at
(28:38):
yourself.
And so if it's self-hate, thenwe need to be trying to teach
them about love, love andforgiveness and loving yourself
first, because you can't loveanybody until you love yourself.
Wow.
Chuck (28:51):
Mike man, that documentary is going to be dope
man to include the victims in it.
Yeah, To show people you knowthat you are concerned not only
for a person just getting out,but for people who are hurting.
You know what I mean.
Michael Marshall (29:04):
Right for a person just getting out, but for
people who are hurting, youknow what I mean when you talk
about.
Chuck (29:07):
So the young people.
The young guys need to see theimpact that they're having.
That would be great absolutelyvictims yeah, share their
journey so they don't see thepain that they're causing in
them.
You know exactly.
Michael Marshall (29:17):
Yes, yes, because sometimes you may see it
play out in a courtroom setting, but you don't necessarily see
any follow-up with that.
You see the pain and hurt comefrom a loved one losing this
book and you see how they act.
So just imagine like over theyear, they don't, they don't,
that don't never go anywhere,and so they could easily become
a family, can become a, anaggression for a family member
(29:39):
who lost us.
Let's say, you lost yourdaughter and you just you're
angry with the world, man, andso again it goes back to that
hurt thing, man and the people,man.
And if victims and perpetratorscould sit down and talk, I
think that it could be somehealing man on both sides.
Man, I just do, and, but peoplemay not be ready for it all the
(29:59):
way.
Right, yeah, but for those thatare, I think it'd be a great
start.
Yeah, exactly, and so that'sbeen one of the things, as
advocates, that we really arefocusing on how do we mend these
gaps, man?
What services and resources dowe need?
So that's where we at Chuck.
Chuck (30:14):
Is that hard to find?
Man Like the resources to makethings happen?
Michael Marshall (30:19):
You know, Chuck, that's the elephant in
the room.
You know it's that it's notenough funding, because it's
just these small parts offunding that's on the table and
it just.
You know, if you don't reallyhave an inside, you know right,
(30:41):
then you know you can't fundthis stuff.
It takes dollars and cents torun programs and so you can't
run them free.
But you know you do have peoplethat can volunteer and some of
these nonprofit organizationsyou know they utilize a for
different.
You know services that you mightwant, let's say you want to do
(31:06):
art, therapy or whatever.
These these things cost me andit just costs period.
It just takes resources to beable to run successful programs
and so, um, we don't have a lotof access to it and it's just uh
, um, it's just unfortunate, buthopefully that you know that we
will see more money or morefunding going towards criminal
justice reform and hopefullythat that type of funding will
(31:29):
trickle down to you know cityand I mean state and city
localities that in all citiesbecause you know we don't have
reentry in all cities we havesocial services who may do some
bits and pieces with somereentry stuff, but it's not a
comprehensive reentry programthat each city has other than
norfolk if somebody wants todonate to what you're doing, how
(31:52):
can they do that?
so here we go.
So right now we we have notbeen set up to do any type of,
you know, financial donations oranything, but what I will say
is that I can leave my.
If someone would love to liketo talk to me or get involved or
be a collaborative partner, orif they even have, you know, a
skill set that they would liketo offer, they want to join the
(32:13):
advocates group and be, you know, a part of us, then I would
love to talk to them more abouthow they can get involved with
us and, you know, if you want myinformation, I can give you
that too.
Chuck (32:25):
Got you, got you, got you .
As we close, mike, if somebodywas to ask about you who is Mike
Marshall, what would you say?
Who is Mike Marshall today?
Today?
Michael Marshall (32:38):
Michael is unlike Mike.
Michael has been transformed bythe renewing of his mind,
because when a man's mindsetchanges, everything changes, wow
(33:01):
.
And so I believe that today I'menough for him to cultivate, or
help or allow people tocultivate in me what was already
there.
And so Michael is a betterperson today because of his
relationship with God, withfamily, with friends.
(33:25):
And so I also, man, want toleave this final thought and
encourage whoever that theaudience and all here on this
broadcast that may be listeningand this is just you know what I
mean for those that will bereturning back to the community
or those that are already out inthe community.
I always leave my final threepoints, which is, I always tell
(33:48):
people whether you're cominghome from prison or whether
you're already out.
Man, the first thing is get youa solid plan and write it down.
I used to think that that wascliche, but a man without a plan
must be planned.
You got to have a solid plan orblueprint.
You gotta have it, man.
It can be tweaked, it can bechanged along the way.
(34:10):
Get you a solid plan if you canreally come home or if you're
already out, cultivate that planwith someone else.
Second thing is, I would say,find a mentor or several.
My success joke has been basedaround me having strong men,
building up a man who was tryingto be the man that I am today.
(34:35):
Had it not been for me havingstrong mentors, I don't think I
could have successfully survivedthe last 21 years, because
there have not been just a clearroad, a clear path for me.
There have been some challengesalong the way, but those
mentors I've had several greatmentors in my life and so I
encourage you you know you'renot too old to ever have a
mentor.
(34:55):
I got one right now, and so youknow iron sharpens iron right.
So if not one, find two orthree.
And the third thing you knowwhat I mean.
I have to say incorporate God,have God at the center of your
life.
Man Absolutely.
And I believe that that will be, you know, the recipe for a man
becoming successful, if he'snot already there, wow.
Chuck (35:18):
Wow, shout out to you, man.
I appreciate you being on, Iappreciate your words, what
you're doing, the documentaryhow can they find a documentary?
Michael Marshall (35:26):
Well, so because we're in a development
stage right now, probably won'teven come out for another,
probably 90 days.
Chuck (35:32):
Okay.
Michael Marshall (35:33):
So we're still filming.
We're still it's because, likeI said, that's a proof of
concept.
It's just to kind of get theword out there that we're
working on it.
Okay, we're trying to draw morepeople to it, okay.
Chuck (35:42):
Got you.
So thanks again, man, for beinga part of let's Just Talk About
it podcast.
I really appreciate you, Mike.
Michael Marshall (35:48):
Okay, man.
Thanks a lot, bro, Chuck.
I enjoyed being with you.
Chuck (35:50):
Yes, sir, I enjoyed you too, man.
Thanks again.
All right, buddy.
Wow, what an amazingconversation.
Shout out to Michael for havingthis dialogue with me.
You know so many amazing thingsin our conversation today, but
(36:11):
the thing that really stuck outto me was his heartfelt passion
for helping people to find abetter life after reentry back
into society.
He says that if you have a plan, a mentor and, most of all, god
, that you could be successfulon your reentry journey.
So shout out to you, mike, foryour advocacy work.
Again, thank you so much foralways tuning in to let's Just
Talk About it podcast, andplease check out my website.
Just Google let's Just TalkAbout it podcastcom and then hit
that subscribe button toreceive all the new episodes
(36:31):
every Friday.
You can also find me onFacebook.
Just type in Chuck L-J-T-A-I,which means let's Just Talk
About it.
So, as always, until next time,don't hold it in, but let's
just talk about it.
Talk to you soon.
Hey, welcome back to another episode of let's Just
Talk About it podcast.
I'm your host, chuck, and ifyou're here for the first time,
this platform was created togive genuine people just like
you an opportunity to share aportion of your life's journey.
So, with that being said, todayI have Michael Marshall on with
me today, sharing a part of hisjourney growing up in the city
of Portsmouth, virginia, andalso his passion as an advocate
(00:33):
to help men and women with theirreentry from prison back into
society.
So, hey, you don't want to missthis amazing conversation today
.
As a matter of fact, do me afavor Go and grab your husband,
your wife, your children, oreven call a friend and gather
around to listen to myconversation with Michael on
let's Just Talk About it podcast.
Hey, let's jump right in.
(00:58):
Welcome back to another episodeof let's Just Talk About it
podcast Today.
I have Mike Marshall on with metoday.
How's it going, mike?
Hey, doing great, chuck.
Thank you for asking, brother.
Yes, sir man, good to have youon.
I'm glad to be here, mike.
I love to jump right into myinterviews to have those genuine
conversations with genuinepeople just like yourself, you
know, just to share a portion ofyour life's journey.
Michael Marshall (01:25):
So the first question I want to start off
with is where are you from?
Where did you grow up at?
Well, originally, when I wasyounger, my mom was actually
living in public housing.
We were in Ida Barbar PublicHousing for the earlier part of
my years and then, from there,when my mom passed away, we went
to live with my grandmother inCavalier Manor.
Chuck (01:44):
Wow, so your mom passed away at an early age.
Michael Marshall (01:47):
Right, yeah, so I believe I was nine years
old when my mom passed away frombreast cancer.
She was 35 years old.
Chuck (01:56):
Did that impact you?
You know, like being a youngguy growing up in Outer Barber,
Did that impact you a lot?
Michael Marshall (02:04):
Yeah, so you, you know here we go.
So when you think about someone, nine years old, um, growing up
without a mother, you know wedidn't know about being
traumatized at that point, wedidn't know about the pain and
suffering that comes with.
You know the emotional scarsthat you know one endure.
From luc, you know lifecontinued to go on and so, as
(02:26):
kids, you continue to do whatkids do, you play, you enjoy,
you know whatever life is andbut as you get older, you know
you realize that some of thebehavior that you probably have
developed has been a result ofhaving that hole, that missing
piece of your life.
And yeah, yeah, and so a greatdeal of my life, um, never
really knew why.
(02:47):
You know, um, I just couldn't,you know, let that part of me go
, let that part of life go, andand so it always came back for
me, always, and so, um, yeah,man, that was, that was a tough
blow at nine years old, verytough, wow, you the oldest.
No, so I, so I'm number five ofseven.
Yeah, so I had a total of sevensiblings.
(03:10):
I've lost several siblings alongthe way.
I lost one of my sisters earlyon in life, when I was living,
actually, because I was in NewYork After my mom passed.
I went to New York for a shortperiod of time to live with some
family and when I was in NewYork my sister was there also
with me one of my sisters andshe had met this older guy and
(03:31):
ended up getting in arelationship and she was back
and forth from New York back toVirginia.
And we get that phone call oneday, man, that they had found my
sister in the house and she hadexpired, had passed away from,
looks like somebody had poisonedher.
But we never really found out.
And you know again, you knowthe trauma, the grief, the hurt,
(03:53):
the pain, yeah, yeah, it wasdeep, right, yeah.
And so then you know, I hadlost another sister to breast
cancer at the age of 33, I wantto say I, I believe 33 or 34.
I lost my baby sister to breastcancer.
So she would go, she would, youknow, I mean dying from the
same sickness that my mom had.
(04:13):
But you know, man, these things,man, life still go on yeah and
you still process it the bestway you can, but they affect you
in so many areas of your life.
So I always continue to beaffected, because I remember a
lot of times you don't want togo to counseling because we've
been taught in the blackcommunity that it's taboo for to
talk to someone about you know,your loss or your grief, and so
(04:37):
what happens in the house staysin the house.
That's what your parents toldyou when I was growing up.
Don't you tell nobody?
Chuck (04:42):
what's going on in?
Michael Marshall (04:43):
this house.
Right, that's right.
Yeah, and so, man, for a longtime I couldn't talk about the
thing that I had to do.
It was only when I became anadult man that, you know, I
began to really kind of seek outbecause I couldn't understand
why I wasn't functioning.
You know the way, in terms ofin relationships, man and I
(05:03):
didn't make the connection, andthen one of the therapists had
told me and this is why I'm anadvocate, man for nail, nail.
It used to be a time where youknow, I'm not talking about it,
I feel like that.
You know, I'm the tough guy.
I got my chest poked out and Isaid you know what?
I got this, that's what I usedto say.
I got this came at me and, man,but at some point, yeah, yeah,
(05:28):
so at what point, man, do you,you can't suck it up forever.
And I kept trying to suck it up, suck it up, suck it up, but at
some point, man, you, youexplode because you can't suck
it up anymore.
And that's what happened inlife, man, you know, because
everything I was sucking up, man, it was going nowhere, but
inside of me, and, and that cancause a person to at some point
you, it's got to go, so you endup exploding, right.
So and so, man, yeah, and sotoday, you know, I've been real.
(05:53):
I'm very actively, um,supportive of people, man, who
may not want to go to therapyand counseling, because I know
that the brothers, in particularafric-American men, you know
we're less likely to go to gettreatment because we've been
told again that you know you gotit and uh, but what do you do,
though?
What do you really really do?
And that's why you're seeingright now, man, a lot of people
(06:14):
are emotional, bankrupt,emotional, mentally,
psychologically scarred man,because they don't know how to
deal with the trauma and thepain, and so hurt people, hurt
other people.
And so, you know, yeah, and andthat's what we're seeing now, a
lot of hurt people are runningaround hurting other people
because they don't know what todo with all of those emotional
(06:37):
things that they, that they,have endured through life, man,
and so, uh, so, yeah, so I, Istrongly, again, I strongly, man
, recommend, you know someone,man, that's been having these
type of things, that haschallenged them, to seek out
some help.
Man, you know, put aside, man,that ego man.
You know we become egotisticalmaniacs, and so we don't want,
(06:57):
you know, no one to know thatwe're hurting deep inside right
and but you know it's better manto get that out you than to
keep it in you.
Because I right and but youknow it's better man to get that
out you than to keep it in you,because I can tell you one
thing for sure, man, it'sdefinitely gonna stagnate you in
a lot of ways.
But, yeah, chuck, so I you know.
So, man, um, but losing lovedones like that man at an early
age, man, it left a hole in myheart, man, but now and I know
(07:18):
how to work through those things, even with the recent loss of
my brother, pain is pain, youknow, hurt is hurt, but because
I learned how to work through itand seek out the type of
resources you know what I mean Ireally feel that can be
beneficial to me.
I think the healing process hasbeen a little better for me
this time than it's ever beenbefore.
(07:39):
And so you know that deaththere with my brother man, you
know me and my brother man,we're very close.
Wow, you know I got fourbrothers, man, everybody that
knows us know we're very close.
So but the loss of him, man,really thankful.
Chuck (07:51):
Yes, it's deep man.
You never know what people gothrough, man, you never know
what they've come through to bethe way they are today.
Exactly, yes, you're exactlyright.
If we hold that emotion on theinside, eventually it's going to
come out in the wrong way.
Michael Marshall (08:06):
Yes, yeah.
Chuck (08:07):
So, as you you know, you transitioned from New York City
back to Cavalier Manor.
How was that for you from thatpoint on growing up?
Michael Marshall (08:17):
Yeah, so right .
So, look, that's an interestingquestion.
I'm glad you asked that becausewhen I came back from from new
york I'm born and raised from,you know, from portsmouth.
Now when I went to new york, Iwas, it was at an early age and
so I had cousins, man, you know,it was like on steroids to cry
in there.
Compared to you know, comparedto you know, you know, they used
(08:40):
to call me country man becauseyou know, you're coming from the
south and you know, and theyget a chuckle out.
You know, I mean that accentthere and so.
But, man, I'm being in a bigcity, man, you know, at 12 years
old, learning your way, tryingto figure things out, because my
father was, you know, was therebut and I had an uncle that was
there, but my grandmother on mydad's side supposedly had been,
(09:00):
you know, providing, and Iremember one day, man, when she
told me that you know providing.
And I remember one day, man,when she told me that, you know,
she just didn't have all theresources that she needed to
take care of me and one of mysisters that was there in New
York.
She used to tell my grandmotherback here in Virginia.
She said y'all need to get Mikeout of New York because he's
running wild.
I didn't even realize at 12 or13 how wild that I was running
man, because I wasn't even in myright grade, and that's another
(09:23):
thing, man.
You know, I had to come back toVirginia.
When I got back to Virginia, mygrandmother had to get me in my
right grade, because mygrandmother in New York she kind
of dropped that ball and Iwasn't even in school for a
whole year, wow, and so thatthat pushed me behind for a
whole year, and so eventually,when I got back in Virginia
system though, I eventuallycaught back up and I don't think
(09:44):
I really truly caught back up,but I think that I was yeah,
yeah.
So I don't think I truly caughtup in terms of my age and stuff
, but I caught up in terms ofacademic Right, and so yeah.
But when I came back trying toreadjust, I noticed that I was a
little more advanced for a 12or 13.
(10:07):
I can't remember that, probably12 or 13.
Right, but I was so advanced inmy behavior man was just had
adjusted to city life, and soeven when yeah, so even when I
came back here in Virginia, man,I still had another type of
mentality at that early age.
Wow, because I had a youngcousin that they taught me all
(10:28):
the bad things, man, you know,they was hustling a little weed
and you know, and this is atearly ages, right, and so I got
it.
Yeah, and so I get exposed tosome things that I shouldn't
have got exposed, that mygrandparents here back in
Virginia probably did not evenhave a clue.
But that was city life, man, itwas just a fast pace and um and
so.
But eventually I got back inand in school and, you know,
(10:49):
started playing sports.
Man, I was, you know, I'mpretty good.
I played football, um, atWaters, w Waters, I don't know
if you remember Waters, yeah, Iremember, you know.
Yeah so.
I, yeah, I played for Mounted,but I was at Waterloo though,
okay.
But you know, in the eighthgrade you can play JV, jv,
that's right, so I played JV,right, yeah, so I played JV.
Yeah, so back during that time.
So I played JV football and Iwas probably one of the few that
(11:15):
was on the JV basketball in theeighth and ninth grade.
Chuck (11:19):
So I was real active in sports.
Yeah, all around sports man.
Michael Marshall (11:22):
Yeah, yeah, man, I was real active Football
was really true to my sport.
I played tailback for two years, man, up until you know school.
Just, you know, I guess, lifeand trauma, crisis, and the
trauma again, man, just, I nevershook it, man, and I remember,
(11:43):
man, remember, man, I juststopped going man around about
the 10th grade, you know, I said, well, you know, um, I'm not
going no more man.
And and I pretty much, man,made that decision on my own.
And when I did, my grandfathernever forget my grandfather's,
you know was a type of guy hewas, you know, very stern, very
strict man.
You know, he was a hard workingguy, you know military, you
know, had done security, he was,you know, but he was a
hard-working guy.
You know military, you know,had done security, he was, you
know, but he was a hard-workingman.
(12:04):
He said, either work you know,work school, or military, or you
know, you ain't gonna stay inmy house.
And I remember, man, I wasdoing all the bad stuff and I
got caught, man, and I was a man, I was, I was really a bad guy,
man at an early age, gotcha andunfortunately, because of the
exposure, man, mm-hmm and so,but that led me, man, to my
(12:25):
grandfather putting me out, andthat's, you know, because of you
know.
I mean, I had a gun in his houseand you know all the bad things
, man, that you don't thinkabout when you're young, you
just think that it's normal.
Okay, we got a little gun andyou know, we don't you know, but
it wasn't like that we wererunning around hurting people,
it was just the thought of itthat we had.
It wasn't like that, right,yeah, because it wasn't like on
(12:47):
the level of violence what wesee today.
But as young guys, we, you know, just was exploring down those
kind of avenues.
That wasn't safe for us.
But I can't even tell you rightnow how I even got the weapon,
but but I was young, you know.
Chuck (13:00):
Yeah, I got you right.
I got you, yeah, wow.
So moving on, man, we met onsaint brides correctional.
You know what I'm saying?
that was my first time meetingmike marshall and right, yeah
going back when I, when I metyou, right, you was all about
getting out or helping the guysin there to get their lives back
(13:21):
on track.
That's all I saw Mike Marshalldoing was a man that was
determined when he got out, itwas no looking back.
And now you're doing the samething, helping guys who come and
women, I believe who come outto help them to stay out.
Correct, correct, wow, correct,correct, wow.
Michael Marshall (13:47):
And you have a have a documentary man that you
executive produced called theReentry Advocates of Virginia
Documentary man.
Talk about that.
So before I get there, so letme go back a little bit.
All right, let's go back.
So yeah, so let me let merewind, Like so, when I was in
the system, I never reallyaccepted that was going to be my
life or that's who I was.
That's what I'd done, but thatwasn't who I was.
(14:10):
Wow.
Chuck (14:10):
Does that make?
Michael Marshall (14:11):
sense, okay, that's what I'd done, I'd done a
crime that ended me there, butthat wasn't who I was.
Because, if you think back, man, a lot of us came up, you know,
in well-to-do families,two-parent homes, I mean, excuse
me, two-parent families, youknow, sort of middle class, you
know, but we still made some baddecisions.
It wasn't because we wasn'traised properly, because I got a
(14:33):
good upbringing, although youhear my earlier journey about me
, my journey of a winding roadgoing down these different paths
.
That happened because of Mike'schoice.
Journey about me, my journey ofa winding road going down these
different paths, that happenedbecause of mike's choice, not
because that I was right.
I didn't, I didn't have to godown there, right?
Yeah?
so you can, so we can relateright.
So before there even was, youknow I mean a, a having a little
(14:54):
firearm or having some weed, oryou know I mean doing something
that was illegal.
There was a time where mikewasn't exposed to any of that
and that he was raised, going tochurch, um, doing all the
positive, productive things, hada little job and those sort of
things.
But I got off track.
I got off track because I madea decision.
I made the poor decision, poorchoice that I wanted.
(15:16):
Right, exactly, man.
And so, even if I fail when Ifast track this story to respond
to what you were saying, I endup inside of a prison at an
early age in which you didn'tknow I had been to prison before
.
Unfortunately I had been.
I got charged at 17 years old,me and some more guys from
(15:38):
around Cabellet Mountain.
We got charged with, you know,it's kind of petty, petty
robbery charge.
You know, uh, nobody was hurt,anything like that.
It was petty, but it still wasa was a charge.
Right, it's still valid, um,and so I didn't learn anything
when I was incarcerated for thatshort three years that I went
in at an early age and so Ilived the same lifestyle that I
(16:00):
knew I was planning on livingwhen I got out and I did what I
was is I positioned myselfaround even more sophisticated
criminals, you know, and tryingto plot and scheme on how we
were going to get.
You know all these ideas to getback in the drug game and make
lots of money, that type ofthing because I was not ready
for change.
Change is something that comesfrom winning.
You know what I and so when Imet you by that time I want to
(16:23):
say I was in my late 20s, wow.
And so everything had evolved.
So now, as I played the tapeall the way through right which
that's what I was doing I hadplayed the tape all the way
through, mike.
What are you gonna do?
This is your second time.
You're in late 20s.
You got two children.
Um, what are you going to do?
This is your second time You'rein late twenties.
You got two children.
What are you going to do whenyou get out?
(16:44):
Because I will never forget, aguy told me.
He said man, if you go back outthere with the same thing, he
said, if we go back out therelike that, he said, man, it may
be a luxury for us to make itback because they die.
And I said, whoa, it may be aluxury to come back.
He said, yeah, dying.
And I said, whoa, it may be aluxury to come back.
He said, yeah, because they'redying out there.
And that stuck with me and Iremember man from the rest of my
(17:06):
being and doing and serving mysins.
I said to myself.
I said, man, I'm going to find away to come up with a strategic
plan that's going to line me upfor success.
But I got to start living theway that I want to live out
there.
I started not to accept theprison, man, you know, I used to
(17:27):
get up, man, and when y'allused to see me moving about my
mind, man was focused.
I was focused, and if a man'smind don't change, progress is
impossible.
Wow.
And so when my mindset changed,everything started changing
around me.
I prayed, I said God, you know,god, just show me the way I put
down having whatever kind ofreputation you think that you
had, emotionally,psychologically, spiritually.
(17:48):
I put all that in the trash,can, man?
Because I knew that if I didn'tchange before I got out, it was
impossible for me to now get tothat time and be able to open
(18:10):
these gates, these doors.
And I'm going back out thereand I had not put in no work.
You got to put in work, man,and I put in a lot of work.
Man, right, like, and I put ina lot of work man, yeah, you
have, Like you said, chuck, Iput in a lot of work with
working with people, that Ithought that would better
position me to be successful andto do the thing that I enjoy
doing, which was giving back.
I found my passion, whichultimately, you find your
(18:32):
purpose.
My passion was helping otherpeople.
Chuck (18:35):
Yeah, that's for sure.
Michael Marshall (18:37):
Right.
And so that right.
And so when I was released, thefirst first thing I then I
ended up taking the same trade Ihad.
I was working in norfolk statein food service, because that's
what I done when I was inside,you know, I mean I.
And then I started working in alibrary.
So when I went, when I workedin a library, inside institution
, I learned the whole deweydecimal system I could.
I used to get quoted the backof my head, right I, you know,
(18:59):
because I became obsessed withbooks, right, right and reading,
and that's what propelled me.
You know, when I came home andyou know, I got a job in Norfolk
State, they told me they hadnever hired, nobody.
But this is how critical it is,you never know who's watching
you.
The same man that I was workingfor as an aide, mr Owens, may
(19:19):
he rest in peace he was thefirst person that went and
advocated for me.
And so when you invest in, youknow how you got investments.
People invest in houses, theyinvest in the stock market, they
invest in you know what I meanother things in life but when
you invest in a human being, man, and you invest in a human
infrastructure, you're talkingabout changing lives.
That man changed my life whenhe invested in me, and so you
(19:43):
know what I reciprocated, thatwhat he done for me is what God
has allowed me to do for otherpeople.
I invest in the humaninfrastructure of people.
I believe that there's hopeafter prison, there's hope after
jail, you know, people don'thave to continue to go back on
that perpetual cycle, and soI've learned that it has to be a
mind changing experience.
So people that I've engaged inthose type of conversations now
(20:07):
and not just that man I givethem the blueprint that I had.
I got the blueprint to stay out.
I've been off for 20 years now,but that was a systematic
approach and process that keptme where I'm at today, and I
credit God man, I came to thisinterview and not credit God for
everything that he does.
He changed that criminalmindset that I had, you know,
(20:27):
because I never consideredmyself a thug anyway.
I just had a criminal mindset,you know.
But criminality right, yeah,and God changed that, chuck, and
I'm thankful, man.
Chuck (20:38):
Wow, mike, shout out to you.
Man Shout out to you.
Thank you, brother, shout outto you.
So let's talk about thedocumentary.
Can we talk about that now?
Yeah, yeah.
Michael Marshall (20:48):
So let's delve into the documentary.
I never see things just solelyabout me.
I like to bring other peoplealong.
My work has been centered andgeared around advocacy.
So I do a lot of advocate workbecause people need a voice, and
so in the Bible it talks aboutbeing that voice in the
wilderness.
And I have said to God, let mebe that.
(21:10):
Yeah, let me be that voice inthe wilderness for others.
And I have a voice right now.
Over the last 20 some years,every platform or every space
that I have been in, I have beenable to be an advocate, not
just about Mike, because God hadblessed me and I could have
went on and found a whole notherindustry to get in and made me
a little bit of money or moremoney, and been OK.
(21:33):
But that wasn't enough for meand so the documentary came
about.
I've been wanting to work on adocumentary for the last 15, 16
years and so, but I didn't haveall the resources to try to
bring it together.
Man, but when you faithful togod, man, god will make room.
He will make room for thosegifts y'all.
And this is what's happening.
So I brought along all theseother advocates because that
(21:54):
really what you see in thedocumentary really is not the
full.
It's called a proof of concept.
Okay, the proof of concept isto show people what's to come
see the.
It's a full documentary.
I'm trying to do a 90-minutedocumentary.
That got it done.
It's proof of concept.
We just needed some content toput out there to show other
people that this is thedirection we're headed.
These are some of the areasthat we want to address.
(22:16):
You know, when it comes toreentry and everybody that knows
me knows I have a strongpassion for kids that have
parents incarcerated, becausewhen I think about my own life I
realize that it's so many, andespecially in the
African-American community youknow the families are broken
because the males are not there.
When you can walk on a prisoncampus and you can see a father
(22:37):
and a son and maybe sometime agrandson on the same institution
, that's a problem.
That's a problem.
And that cycle man is what gotus where we're at today.
No one is out here guiding theseyoung men, these young kids,
man, and they're looking a lotof them.
You know people.
It's easy for us to look atthem and judge them and say,
yeah, and I'm not justifying thebehavior, but what I'm saying
(22:59):
is we got to go deeper.
We got to go to the root causeof how these young men got these
guns in their hands.
Absolutely, you know what Imean.
There's violence and it goesback to violence.
People hurt, people hurt otherpeople, right.
And so when you look at theseyoung men that's out here, man
and not just young men, youngwomen now they're committing
some of these violent acts, man,is because they're lost and
(23:21):
they're looking for someone toguide them and it's just not
there.
And so what they do?
They turn to what they thinkthey love the most and those are
the people that they canidentify with, and those are
people that's out there in thestreets doing what they do.
But, man, we got to go to theroot of this problem, man,
because if not, you know, Ican't even imagine what it will
look like 15, 20 years from now.
(23:43):
You know what I mean, with somany young people dying and so
many continue broken homes.
So I'm looking for solutions,man, on how I can be in a
partner.
So I've only got theseadvocates.
So I have all these advocatesthat are mentors, right, and so
they are willing to work and dowork in the community, to work
with other organizations orwhoever that wants to partner
with us, so we can you know whatI I mean be a voice to that
(24:05):
missing piece.
You know we're not going tochange everybody, but we want to
do, we're trying to do, ourpart.
So the documentary is only togive a little bit exposure to
what advocates are doing outhere, because a lot of times
they're not going to make thenews, they're not going to make
podcasts, they're not going toyou know me be recognized on any
kind of platform, gettingawards, but they're doing the
work behind the scenes becausethey like the boots on the
(24:25):
ground but people never see them, right, right, but they're
moving.
And so when I done this, I saidI wanted to get these
individuals exposed to sharingtheir stories, their stories of
overcoming their past, becauseyou know, we released look, 95%
of the people in prison will beout one day, right, so they're
coming back to your communitiesanyway, whether people want them
(24:46):
.
And I want to show these typeof things in the documentary to
show that we have a major issuewhen it comes to employment.
You know what I mean barrierswhen it comes to housing
barriers, people not gettingenough substance abuse services
because they don't have accessto it.
Again, mental health right, andso when we think about, you
know, all of these differentbarriers before people and they
(25:07):
don't have true access to it.
Because we don't have a wholelot of prisoner reentry programs
and I can really point out Idon't want to go, you know.
I mean I don't want to go deepinto how many we have, but we
still are in dire need.
Restorative justice thatparticular piece is something
that I have put a lot of focusand emphasis on, because, while
(25:27):
I believe that a man or womanshould get a second chance or
first opportunity after theyhave served their time, they're
becoming taxpaying citizens, sowe expect people to pay taxes,
but they can't vote.
Something is wrong with thatpicture.
So we need some policy changes.
We need, you know, because alot of policies they're old on
our books in Virginia and insome other states, depending on
(25:48):
what state you're in Now.
Virginia has came far in termsof doing some reentry work or
providing some reentry servicesduring pre-incarceration, but
it's still not enough.
We still haven't went far.
Still not enough.
We still haven't went far.
But I'm gonna go back, becausethe restorative justice is just
basically people um being heldaccountable for the crime that
(26:10):
they're committed, because Ibelieve that families that have
been greed and been hurt I don'tthink that we, you know I mean
want to overlook that andminimize that.
And so I've had a big um.
I've been having a lot ofdiscussion around pointing out
you know, how do we involvevictims in our documentary?
How do we, how do we interviewthem?
(26:30):
Because I want them to knowthat we do care about that too.
Yeah, right, exactly, and it'snot just about me, uh, my
friends making parole or gettinga light of sentence or whatever
.
We got hurting people out hereand people have to be held
accountable.
Then some people, you know, maynever you, but I think that it
speaks volume when a man can say, yeah, I'm out, but I have not
(26:52):
forgotten about the wrong thatI've done.
But can I make it right andhopefully that the family would
understand I can't bring yourloved ones back, I can't undo
what I've done, but what I cando, moving forward, is not let
that crime be in vain.
And so when I think about, youknow, those particular incidents
where I've talked to victimsand I've talked to their loved
(27:13):
ones and families who have notgotten to the point of
forgiveness.
I go and I have talked toadvocates that does the work
that I do and I've been sharingwith them that it needs to be a
greater push for thatrestorative justice piece
because we don't hear about it alot, because we always hear
about people wanting a secondchance or another opportunity
(27:34):
and we always hear about youknow me, woes me, and but we
sometimes often intentional orunintentional forget about the
ones that have been impacted bysomething that we've done and
still hurting, and so you know,and so a lot of my work, and
even with juveniles, when Ithink about young people, if
there was something that wecould implement, they need to
(27:55):
understand the impact of theirdecision nature right, because
these are kids killing kids andthey don't realize that your
behaviors and your choices ofdoing what you do don't impact
just you in that person, itimpacts everybody that's
connected to you as theperpetrator as well as the
victim.
So everybody on both sides, sonobody wins.
(28:16):
So how can we break this cycle?
You know, I mean this perpetualcycle of young men who have
this self-hate and I'm going tobe honest with you, I really
believe that a lot of it man hashave this self-hate, and I'm
going to be honest with you Ireally believe that a lot of it,
man, has came from self-hate,because you can see a man just
like you, that looks just likeyou, and it's so easy for you to
pull the trigger and kill himBecause you're looking at
(28:38):
yourself.
And so if it's self-hate, thenwe need to be trying to teach
them about love, love andforgiveness and loving yourself
first, because you can't loveanybody until you love yourself.
Wow.
Chuck (28:51):
Mike man, that documentary is going to be dope
man to include the victims in it.
Yeah, To show people you knowthat you are concerned not only
for a person just getting out,but for people who are hurting.
You know what I mean.
Michael Marshall (29:04):
Right for a person just getting out, but for
people who are hurting, youknow what I mean when you talk
about.
Chuck (29:07):
So the young people.
The young guys need to see theimpact that they're having.
That would be great absolutelyvictims yeah, share their
journey so they don't see thepain that they're causing in
them.
You know exactly.
Michael Marshall (29:17):
Yes, yes, because sometimes you may see it
play out in a courtroom setting, but you don't necessarily see
any follow-up with that.
You see the pain and hurt comefrom a loved one losing this
book and you see how they act.
So just imagine like over theyear, they don't, they don't,
that don't never go anywhere,and so they could easily become
a family, can become a, anaggression for a family member
(29:39):
who lost us.
Let's say, you lost yourdaughter and you just you're
angry with the world, man, andso again it goes back to that
hurt thing, man and the people,man.
And if victims and perpetratorscould sit down and talk, I
think that it could be somehealing man on both sides.
Man, I just do, and, but peoplemay not be ready for it all the
(29:59):
way.
Right, yeah, but for those thatare, I think it'd be a great
start.
Yeah, exactly, and so that'sbeen one of the things, as
advocates, that we really arefocusing on how do we mend these
gaps, man?
What services and resources dowe need?
So that's where we at Chuck.
Chuck (30:14):
Is that hard to find?
Man Like the resources to makethings happen?
Michael Marshall (30:19):
You know, Chuck, that's the elephant in
the room.
You know it's that it's notenough funding, because it's
just these small parts offunding that's on the table and
it just.
You know, if you don't reallyhave an inside, you know right,
(30:41):
then you know you can't fundthis stuff.
It takes dollars and cents torun programs and so you can't
run them free.
But you know you do have peoplethat can volunteer and some of
these nonprofit organizationsyou know they utilize a for
different.
You know services that you mightwant, let's say you want to do
(31:06):
art, therapy or whatever.
These these things cost me andit just costs period.
It just takes resources to beable to run successful programs
and so, um, we don't have a lotof access to it and it's just uh
, um, it's just unfortunate, buthopefully that you know that we
will see more money or morefunding going towards criminal
justice reform and hopefullythat that type of funding will
(31:29):
trickle down to you know cityand I mean state and city
localities that in all citiesbecause you know we don't have
reentry in all cities we havesocial services who may do some
bits and pieces with somereentry stuff, but it's not a
comprehensive reentry programthat each city has other than
norfolk if somebody wants todonate to what you're doing, how
(31:52):
can they do that?
so here we go.
So right now we we have notbeen set up to do any type of,
you know, financial donations oranything, but what I will say
is that I can leave my.
If someone would love to liketo talk to me or get involved or
be a collaborative partner, orif they even have, you know, a
skill set that they would liketo offer, they want to join the
(32:13):
advocates group and be, you know, a part of us, then I would
love to talk to them more abouthow they can get involved with
us and, you know, if you want myinformation, I can give you
that too.
Chuck (32:25):
Got you, got you, got you .
As we close, mike, if somebodywas to ask about you who is Mike
Marshall, what would you say?
Who is Mike Marshall today?
Today?
Michael Marshall (32:38):
Michael is unlike Mike.
Michael has been transformed bythe renewing of his mind,
because when a man's mindsetchanges, everything changes, wow
(33:01):
.
And so I believe that today I'menough for him to cultivate, or
help or allow people tocultivate in me what was already
there.
And so Michael is a betterperson today because of his
relationship with God, withfamily, with friends.
(33:25):
And so I also, man, want toleave this final thought and
encourage whoever that theaudience and all here on this
broadcast that may be listeningand this is just you know what I
mean for those that will bereturning back to the community
or those that are already out inthe community.
I always leave my final threepoints, which is, I always tell
(33:48):
people whether you're cominghome from prison or whether
you're already out.
Man, the first thing is get youa solid plan and write it down.
I used to think that that wascliche, but a man without a plan
must be planned.
You got to have a solid plan orblueprint.
You gotta have it, man.
It can be tweaked, it can bechanged along the way.
(34:10):
Get you a solid plan if you canreally come home or if you're
already out, cultivate that planwith someone else.
Second thing is, I would say,find a mentor or several.
My success joke has been basedaround me having strong men,
building up a man who was tryingto be the man that I am today.
(34:35):
Had it not been for me havingstrong mentors, I don't think I
could have successfully survivedthe last 21 years, because
there have not been just a clearroad, a clear path for me.
There have been some challengesalong the way, but those
mentors I've had several greatmentors in my life and so I
encourage you you know you'renot too old to ever have a
mentor.
(34:55):
I got one right now, and so youknow iron sharpens iron right.
So if not one, find two orthree.
And the third thing you knowwhat I mean.
I have to say incorporate God,have God at the center of your
life.
Man Absolutely.
And I believe that that will be, you know, the recipe for a man
becoming successful, if he'snot already there, wow.
Chuck (35:18):
Wow, shout out to you, man.
I appreciate you being on, Iappreciate your words, what
you're doing, the documentaryhow can they find a documentary?
Michael Marshall (35:26):
Well, so because we're in a development
stage right now, probably won'teven come out for another,
probably 90 days.
Chuck (35:32):
Okay.
Michael Marshall (35:33):
So we're still filming.
We're still it's because, likeI said, that's a proof of
concept.
It's just to kind of get theword out there that we're
working on it.
Okay, we're trying to draw morepeople to it, okay.
Chuck (35:42):
Got you.
So thanks again, man, for beinga part of let's Just Talk About
it podcast.
I really appreciate you, Mike.
Michael Marshall (35:48):
Okay, man.
Thanks a lot, bro, Chuck.
I enjoyed being with you.
Chuck (35:50):
Yes, sir, I enjoyed you too, man.
Thanks again.
All right, buddy.
Wow, what an amazingconversation.
Shout out to Michael for havingthis dialogue with me.
You know so many amazing thingsin our conversation today, but
(36:11):
the thing that really stuck outto me was his heartfelt passion
for helping people to find abetter life after reentry back
into society.
He says that if you have a plan, a mentor and, most of all, god
, that you could be successfulon your reentry journey.
So shout out to you, mike, foryour advocacy work.
Again, thank you so much foralways tuning in to let's Just
Talk About it podcast, andplease check out my website.
Just Google let's Just TalkAbout it podcastcom and then hit
that subscribe button toreceive all the new episodes
(36:31):
every Friday.
You can also find me onFacebook.
Just type in Chuck L-J-T-A-I,which means let's Just Talk
About it.
So, as always, until next time,don't hold it in, but let's
just talk about it.
Talk to you soon.
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