July 18, 2024 • 34 mins
What does it take to rebuild your life after incarceration? Join me as I sit down with my brothers Antonio Morgan, Stephen Bethea, and Chris Valentine to uncover the raw and transformative journeys that have shaped our lives. From our shared experiences at Camp 4 in Baskerville, Virginia, to our current paths as a district manager, a trucking company owner-operator, and an aspiring nonprofit founder, we discuss the power of open communication among men and how it fosters understanding and support in overcoming both personal and professional challenges.
We confront the harsh realities of reintegration, discussing the emotional and societal barriers faced when transitioning back into society. Carrying the label of a convicted felon comes with profound struggles—limited employment opportunities, societal rejection, and the emotional toll of lost time. Despite these hurdles, our conversation shines a light on the importance of supportive re-entry programs and communities that believe in second chances. We share our personal battles with stigma and the need for opportunities to prove our worth as reformed individuals.
Our discussion takes a reflective turn as we ponder the advice we would offer our younger selves. Chris underscores the necessity of self-belief and focus, Tony shares his journey of overcoming obstacles through determination and spirituality, and Steve reflects on the sage advice he wishes he had followed from his mother. Our past experiences have molded us into compassionate individuals dedicated to aiding others in similar struggles. We close with a powerful message about the courage and faith required to pursue a better life, reinforced by the resilient spirit of Romans 8. Listen in for an inspiring conversation that underscores the critical role of communication and support among men.
We confront the harsh realities of reintegration, discussing the emotional and societal barriers faced when transitioning back into society. Carrying the label of a convicted felon comes with profound struggles—limited employment opportunities, societal rejection, and the emotional toll of lost time. Despite these hurdles, our conversation shines a light on the importance of supportive re-entry programs and communities that believe in second chances. We share our personal battles with stigma and the need for opportunities to prove our worth as reformed individuals.
Our discussion takes a reflective turn as we ponder the advice we would offer our younger selves. Chris underscores the necessity of self-belief and focus, Tony shares his journey of overcoming obstacles through determination and spirituality, and Steve reflects on the sage advice he wishes he had followed from his mother. Our past experiences have molded us into compassionate individuals dedicated to aiding others in similar struggles. We close with a powerful message about the courage and faith required to pursue a better life, reinforced by the resilient spirit of Romans 8. Listen in for an inspiring conversation that underscores the critical role of communication and support among men.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Hey, welcome back to let's Just Talk About it podcast
.
I'm your host, chuck, and, ifyou're here for the first time,
this platform was created togive genuine people just like
you an opportunity to share aportion of your life's journey.
So, with that being said, Idecided to go back to the
archives and pull out thisamazing conversation that I had
with my good friends AntonioMorgan, stephen Bethea and Chris
(00:30):
Valentine, where we talkedabout our journey through the
prison system and how it waswhen we got out of the prison
system.
So, hey, you don't want to missthis conversation today.
As a matter of fact, do me afavor Go and grab your husband,
your wife, your children, oreven call a friend and gather
around to listen to myconversation with Steve, chris
and Tony on let's Just TalkAbout it podcast.
(00:52):
Hey, let's jump right in.
I have three guys who I call mybrothers today on let's Just
(01:12):
Talk About it.
I have Tony Morgan from episodenumber four, I have Steve
Bethea and I have ChrisValentine all my brothers and I
want to thank you guys for beinga part of this episode.
Our whole friendship started ata prison called Camp 4 in
Baskerville, virginia, where weall served prison time, but now
we've all been blessed to haveanother chance to be free on the
(01:33):
outside, and thank you guys,thank you guys.
As always, I love to jump rightinto my interview, so I want to
start with you, steve, to tellthe listeners a little bit about
yourself, in terms of whereyou're from and what you're up
to now.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Well, I'm originally from Newport News, virginia.
I currently reside in Clayton,north Carolina, which is right
near Clayton, and right now Iwork as a district manager with
Pizza Hut Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
What about you, Chris ?
Tell the listeners aboutyourself.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'm currently residing in Durham, north
Carolina.
I was born and raised inHenderson, north Carolina, which
is about 30 minutes from here.
I'm now a what I do for aliving.
I'm an owner-operator, I own atrucking company business and
I'm trying to raise a family aswell.
That's what I'm doing now.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Got you.
We all know my man, Tony Morgan.
You want to say something, Tony, about yourself again.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, I'm here as a repeat visitor on your show,
which I'm grateful for.
I hail from Petersburg,virginia.
I'm in transition betweenVirginia and North Carolina,
pursuing my education backgroundand also hoping to start a
nonprofit, so that's what I'm inthe process of doing.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Got you, man, appreciate you guys.
I wanted to have thisparticular episode because I
wanted to have a real, genuineconversation with some real men,
so the listening audience canknow that men can have
conversations too.
So, guys, picture yourselves ata table at a restaurant.
We're eating together, we'rehaving a whole lot of fun.
(03:04):
Man, we're just having ageneral conversation.
And one of the main reasonsalso I wanted to have this
conversation is that I'mrealizing that we're losing that
ability to have communication,that real communication, and
therefore, as men, we tend tohold a lot of stuff in to the
point that it comes outsometimes in a lot of different
(03:26):
negative ways.
So I want to talk about, firstof all, the importance of
communication.
Can anybody speak to that?
How important is communicationto you as a man?
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Well, I'll go first.
I think, just like women, whenthey get together they are able
to talk about things that womengo through, and men need to do
the same Sometimes.
You know, we, as men, we tendto hold our feelings in or our
thought processes in because,you know, coming up we've been.
(03:56):
You know, some of us have beentaught not all of us, but some
of us have been taught that menare always, you know, we're
always the rock, we're alwaysthe strong ones, and that you
know showing any signs ofweakness, you know we're always
the rock, we're always thestrong ones, and that you know.
Showing any signs of weakness,you know it isn't good.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Right, you want to jump in Tone.
Tell us what you think aboutcommunication.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You know communication is key.
You know that's one of theprimal needs of humanity and in
today's society, you know, wefeel as men, that we have behind
stigmas how men are supposed tobe and yet there are men
suffering silently, you know,because we live behind a veil of
machoism.
You know, when we come togetherwe can take back information.
(04:36):
You know that we can take backfor our families, our business,
our personal life, our spirituallife, and I think communication
is key.
I think men coming together andjust putting it on the table,
you know, allows everybody to beon an equal playing ground and
say that we don't have ittogether, you know.
So we're here combininginformation and experience to
find out.
You know, we can find someanswers and solutions to what
(04:58):
we're going through, wow.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
What, what you think, chris?
Um, I, I concur with the guys.
Man, I, um, you know my wife,she's a therapist.
So you know I'm huge, yeah, I'mtalking, and, um, I mean she's,
she more so driven than I mean,more than more so than I used
to be?
Um, now, I, I know that sharingis so important because, um,
you know, we talk about out ofmind's devil workshop, yeah, but
also either thoughts are aswell.
So if you really don't knowwhat your partner we're talking
(05:28):
about, just relationships, whatthey're thinking, you know you
can easily um, have the wrongidea about something because you
may or may not have actuallyexpressed you know what, the
real situation, what, what'sreally happening, right?
So, yeah, I'm huge oncommunication.
Now, man, I know when we docommunicate, we can do a lot by
just sharing with one another Ilike what you said, steve man.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Sometimes, you know, we've been taught not to talk
and we hold a lot of stuff in,so I'm learning the importance
of of communication, just justjust being yourself and just
communicating, that you don'thave to put on no airs, you
don't have to be nobody else,but just be yourself and just
talk.
You know, that's where thiswhole thing came about.
Um, let's just talk about it.
Let's just talk about itbecause I wanted to create a
(06:11):
platform where genuine peoplecan come, just like you guys,
and just share and talk aboutreal life issues, you know.
So that's what this wholeplatform is about, man.
So again, I thank you guys.
So I have a lot ofconversations about the
experience of a prison.
So, chris, tell me yourexperience, how you got to that
prison term, what led me tocommitting a crime.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, that's basically what you yeah.
Well, man, I would say um moreof uh influence right than
anything else.
Um, I was brought up in apretty good upbringing yeah I'm
single parent but father liveddown the street.
You know, I had grandparents, Ihad people that supported me.
I I had a good environment thatI raised up in.
(06:53):
However, because of somefriends and more peer pressure
and, um, I I was I won'tnecessarily say fitting in
because I was already a part ofa group, but I was more swayed
when I started seeing what theguys were doing, you know, as
far as from hustling to robbing,to just the money, and I felt
(07:20):
like I could get away with itbecause they were getting away
with it.
And then I tried it with thembecause they kept saying, man,
it's easy money.
So I tried that and we got awaywith it a few times and after
that, ultimately, you know, wegot, we got, we got caught, got
arrested and you know that's awhole, nother long story.
But, that's how.
That's how I happened.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
How much time did you do?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I did 13 years and 10 months.
Got you Almost 14 years, wow.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Hey Steve, if you don't mind, tell the listening
audience how you know you endedup in Camp 4 with all the rest
of us.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Well, hey, you know, the thing is like Chris said.
There's a lot of myths that youknow.
Most people that come to prisonthey sort of had like a uh,
they came up in a roughupbringing, right you know, just
like chris, you know I wasbrought up by a single mother
and you know she taught me rightfrom wrong.
You know, and, um, you know,eventually you get out there and
(08:16):
you know you're going to startexperiencing and experimenting
with, uh, different things andyou need new people and and you
know people have, uh, certaininfluences on you with me.
You know I was more so dealingwith the white collar crimes,
stuff like that.
I did some breaking some, somewhat they call bne's, breaking
the entrance and you know,forging some checks and stuff
(08:37):
like that.
And you know, just like mostyou know young men, you know you
get away with it once and getaway with it twice.
So you think you know, youthink you're kind of untouchable
, so you know I just kept doingit and then eventually I end up
getting caught and you know therest is history.
You know, but I I do like whatchris said you know about his
upbringing, because every, allof us, or all people that that
(08:58):
you know come becomeincarcerated don't always come
up in a rough upbringing.
Yeah, it's not always like that,but you know the world or the
society would like to believethat.
So you know I ended up doingalmost eight and a half years
before I got I was blessed.
Before I got out I was able toget go on work release.
But time is time when you don'thave, you know, all of your
(09:20):
freedom.
But you know, that's how Ibecame involved.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Your turn, tony, how you know all of your freedom.
But you know that's how Ibecame involved.
Your turn, tony.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
How did you get to Camp 4?
You know that's an eclecticquestion because I'm going to
base it on a truth.
You know, for me it wasignorance.
You know, ignorance got methere to Camp 4.
Ignorance continued two yearslater when I went to prison
again for another seven and ahalf years.
You know, I listened to thegentleman that came before my
brothers and we talk aboutinfluence.
(09:48):
The biggest thing was theignorance to what happens after
you commit a crime.
You can get so engulfed ontrying to stay in the void of
the police and getting yourmoney whatever way you can.
But I was ignorant about whatwas going to happen in the
courtroom, ignorant aboutlawyers, ignorant about the law.
(10:08):
I was ignorant, you know, andit was to the point that there
were people trying to tell me,but I refused to listen.
So it led me to making choicesbased upon my ignorance and
that's what landed me in 10-4.
I'm guilty, I pleaded guilty inthe court of law, but it was my
ignorance.
You know that I've seen thatseems to annihilate young men
(10:29):
these days, you know, because werefuse to see another light
into truth.
So that's what got me there.
Wow, yes, sir Got you.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Okay, let's turn the corner.
Okay, we out here.
Now we released.
So what was the?
What was the hardest thing incoming outside, transitioning
from there to freedom, that youcould, that you can think of
being free now, tony.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
You know, I'm going to tell you, the hardest thing
for me was wearing that badge asa convicted felon Mm-hmm.
Wow, you know, when I speak ofignorance, yeah, that was hard.
Yeah, you know, my ignorancewas a point.
I spent my time betteringmyself, you know, and just
making myself a prize through alot of different things and the
way things work.
But when I came out, it wasalways the bounds of saying,
(11:12):
okay, now you enlightened, sohow do you tread?
So you can be angry at a system, you know, but the anger comes
from within, because now yourealize how much time you wasted
.
So when I look at it, you knowI started this at 27.
We were in our 20s when wefirst met and I came home and
(11:32):
they were singing me happy 40thbirthday.
So I only had two years on thestreet at 30 years old and I
came home at 40.
Now I'm 50 years old.
So when I start looking at it,it's a transition to realize
wake up and say this is what Imade of my life.
You know what I'm saying.
We can blame it on POs orwhatever.
It's just that these are someof the scales that you have to
(11:55):
have to weigh.
You know when you commit thesecrimes and you get the
opportunity to be free again.
So the hardest thing for me iswearing that shroud of convicted
felon, knowing that you cancontribute to the community and
give back, and finding thatleeway or opportunity to do that
.
That has been one struggle formyself Because, no, we all need
someone.
I truly believe that people arethe true value of commodity.
(12:17):
You know what I'm saying.
It's not things.
People are, and sometimes inthe community, when we come back
, we don't receive people likethat Some of our family members
do.
But it was me transitioning tothe point to say, okay, I served
my time.
I want to be a productivecitizen, but you're not allowing
me to do that because you'renot giving me an opportunity.
You keep saying this issomething that happened 20 years
(12:38):
ago and you're saying this iswhy I can't vacuum cars at your
dealership, because of the bags.
For $8 an hour I was willing towork.
I made 23 cents an hour.
I was willing to slave.
They wouldn't give me anopportunity, right.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Because of that badge .
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Because of that badge I wore.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
That felony badge yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, felony badge.
I went to school.
I started going back to schoolat 40 years old.
I got myself, I made the dean'slist, twice the president's
list.
I got on the National Board ofHonor for Collegiate Scholars.
They invited me there.
I could have went to any school.
I could have went to Harvard, Icould have went anywhere, but
because of that felony iteliminated me as a barrier crime
(13:18):
to serve in a profession that Iknew more from lived experience
and also educational knowledge,which has barred me from that
profession.
Wow, I met the governor, theSenate governor.
They told me go.
I got my rights restored.
But that's telling.
That has been a hard thing, man.
Wow, yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
So, Steve, speak to us about your transition.
What was the battles for you interms of transitioning to
freedom?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
The biggest battle for me was primarily starting
over.
You know, when I came home, alot of things changed as far as
how the city was.
You know, things were tore down, Things were rebuilt and for a
while I felt like a stranger inmy own home because I kind of
had to learn certain spots allover again.
Yeah right, but my biggesthurdle was, like Tony said, was
(14:04):
trying to get a job.
You know sometimes, you know, Iknow they teach us to be honest
about you know, your felony-Right.
You know, and it's been a fewtimes that I did and, like Tony
said, because of that badge, youknow it's like every you know,
you know served your time andit's been 15, 20 years ago.
(14:24):
You know you still carryingthat bag around your neck saying
that you're a felon and theydon't want to give you a chance,
and most oftentimes, you knowpeople that's been incarcerated.
We just want to get back outthere and start rebuilding.
You know some of us, you know,yeah, we still have that
mentality where we want to goout and make that fast money.
But you do have that group thatyou know.
Okay, I've done this, I'm readyto do this now and to what tony
(14:48):
said, that all the time that wewe gave to the state yeah in
reference to get you knowserving time.
We can't get that back and getit back.
You know we lost.
You know, like myself lost.
We lost a lot of productiveyears.
You know whether building,building a lifestyle, or you
know, like with me, you know Idon't have any biological kids,
but you know you lose that timeand you can't get it back and
(15:08):
young people need to realizethat you know sometimes they
glamorize.
you glamorize being incarcerated, but they don't really
understand the magnitude of whatyou lose once you're
incarcerated and then thereality of when you get back out
, because a lot of times youknow the Department of
Corrections don't really prepareyou for re-entry.
You know you kind of got tolike take that by the horns
(15:29):
yourself.
You know, take advantage ofthose classes, those programs or
whatever that they have inside.
But the world is ever-changing,as we already know.
It's ever-changing, so thebiggest hurdle was getting out
and restarting.
Wow.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So what was yours, Chris?
What was your?
Speaker 1 (15:44):
challenge.
I can go along with the guysand I really like the way Tony
said.
I don't think I've never usedthat term before Permanent
Jordan, but that's real, that'sreal talk, man Shout out to Tony
, because you were there.
You were there.
Even though you may not seethis scar anymore or you may
(16:06):
have been healed from the scar,everyone else still see this
scar.
You may say, well, man, I canget in the race, I can run just
like everyone else, but someoneelse still is saying, no, you
have that scar there.
I think I shared with youbefore, chuck, how I went.
You know, went to apply forthis certain job and I had a guy
that took me to apply for thejob.
He was selling drugs Me.
(16:28):
On the other hand, I wasdetermined to do right and, you
know, go and live a productivelife.
I get in there.
They accept his application,but they I was being honest,
right, and they told me, no, wedon't have, we don't have.
So you know, I had so manyencounters like that where, you
know, I was turned away and, youknow, a little bit discouraged
(16:48):
and I know, you know, thispodcast is for everyone, yes,
but I have to say, man, if itwasn't for the grace of God,
that's right, right.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Say that again.
If it wasn't for what?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
If it wasn't for the grace of God, absolutely, that
encouraged me in mydiscouragement because, there
were days where I was like lord,I just want to get a chance.
Yeah, I just want anopportunity, absolutely.
That's why and I like the way,tony, you know you want to try
to do uh, get a program startedfor guys.
Okay, you know you and I talkabout it, chuck yeah um, because
you have to have people thatactually have a heart for me and
(17:20):
because it's tough, man, whenyou come out and if you don't
have the right people around you, right, you can easily be
derailed, you can be discouraged.
Because you can have a plan,you can think you want to do the
right thing, but yet because,man, people turn you away.
Yeah, you know it candiscourage you.
So, yes, man, the hardest partfor me just like those guys the
(17:41):
tony and steve just said ishaving a felon and, um, just
having the opportunity, man, todo what you know you can do,
right.
So, yeah, that's it.
I agree with what is everythingthey're saying?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
man, yes, yeah I think for mine it was starting
over.
Um, I was blessed to have mydad already working in a
particular spot, so I was like Icalled him before I came home
because I was like, man, I'mmaking 23 cents and I started
thinking about what if I make$10 an hour?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I started counting on my fingers.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I said man.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
I said can I get a job?
And he made it happen.
So when I came home I startedworking, like three days later,
on the night shift, man, but oneof the craziest things, like
you said, steve, things change.
And it was something on thecounter at my mom and dad's
house and it was something likea satellite.
I thought it was a DVD player.
So that's how much time I hadmissed.
(18:34):
I'm thinking I'm like, how canyou open this?
But it was for the cable, but Ihad missed so much time, man,
so much time.
And things change, change.
You got these phones and allthat kind of stuff.
So starting over was one of thebiggest things.
Do y'all think, um, becausethese programs I want to talk
about, this program you'retalking about too, chris and and
(18:55):
tony, but do you think that'sthe reason why there's a
revolving door sometimes, thatpeople really don't want to go
back to prison, but they, theyhave nowhere else to go?
I had family, we had family,but a lot of people don't have
that family, they don't haveanywhere to go.
So do you think that's a bigissue, tony?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I'm a speak candidate , you know.
I just want to give a quote onprison policy dot org.
You know it states thatAfrican-Americans make up 13
percent but there's over 38percent of black persons in jail
.
So when I started thinkingabout my whole trip, I got to
stay with Chris, if it wasn'tfor the grace of God.
So when I look at the program,some of these programs are
(19:35):
aesthetically there but they'renot there to reach, because you
have people who are educated butyet have a stigma towards the
ones they're trying to help.
So they can look book-wise tounderstand it and statistically,
but they don't understand thedemographics because some people
are coming back into the samesituation that brought them into
the system in the first place.
So when we start to get intothese systems, I look at it to
(19:56):
the point that it's an awakeningfor everyone, because you know
all of our shared experiences.
Whether you're a parole officer, police officer, law
enforcement, we should worktogether and we should use the
experiences of men who have gonethere, who have a heart for men
, that they can come to aconclusion and say how can we
make it better?
You know the system is there toset up, you know to be proactive
(20:19):
, but it's also there for peopleto fall through the cracks, is
also there for people to fallthrough the cracks, and that's
something that we always have tocontinue to work on, because as
long as we're people, there'salways going to be crime.
It just goes back to the onethat we keep people from the
recidivism rate and start givingpeople opportunities.
And one thing I believe in theprogram is in the welcoming of
the community, because you'regoing to be welcomed by your
loved ones, but no one.
(20:39):
A lot of people from thecommunity don't come back and
say, hey.
A lot of people from thecommunity don't come back and
say, hey, I got a loaf of bread.
Here's a turkey, you know,welcome home.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I don't know what you need.
They don't do that.
Yeah, no, no.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
No, no, but as soon as someone breaks the law and it
happens to that person, thenit's a problem.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I'm saying but there are a lot of people.
I'm not negating the fact thatthere are people who want to
have another chance at life andI think some of the programs
need to work with people whohave gone that way and have good
intentions.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
So.
So, chris, I want to.
I want to speak about theprogram you mentioned, a program
called inside out.
I want, I want you to mentionthat on the platform, man,
because you know, you never know.
If you mentioned that, younever know what could happen.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So I want you to speak a little bit about lblc,
which is letting brother lovecontinue, and it, um, the
thought came from in the passageout of hebrews, where you know
hebrews 13, 1 through 3,absolutely verse 3, where it
talks about remembering themthat are bound, as though you're
bound with them.
(21:39):
And um, you know, I was goinginto the, you know the halfway
houses and the?
Um, some of the federal prisonsand even the?
Um some of the?
Um low custody prison here inraleigh and um, you know, as far
as I didn't get the funding,but still we had some traction,
we had some movement.
Right, we're trying to see guys.
But I think one of the mainthings that I think, as Tony
(22:02):
said, most time the people thatdo have these programs in place,
they have been funded, but theyreally just get numbers.
I'm not going to say everyonehave these programs in place,
they have been funded, but they,they, they really just get
numbers.
I don't.
I'm not gonna say everyone, I'mnot negating that that all the
programs are not really gearedtoward actually seeing
transformation, but, um, a lotof them they really don't know
how to to really see someone allthe way through.
(22:23):
Yeah, and I say that because,man, I think one of the key
things that I wanted to try to,um, you know, imparting people
or people that were runningprograms, was being transparent,
being honest about eachindividual case.
Right, because every case isnot the same.
Everyone don't have the samebackground and, as Tony said
earlier, and I believe Steve aswell, even though you may have
(22:45):
the support of family andeverything because I had
everything in place when I cameon Support family, everyone.
But again, I say, man, I wasdetermined, I was determined to
do right.
I was determined to try to makesome of my life.
You can have guys that havesome determination, but, man, if
(23:06):
they're not persistent, if they, you know, trying to push this
thing all the way through, theycan, you know go back or fall
back, or revert back.
That's why I like the word theyuse recidivism.
Because, man, if you're not, ifyou, you know, I use my three
p's, you know purpose, passionand being persistent I like it,
then you can easily, uh, revertback to what you used to know.
(23:27):
So, um, I'm strong on theprograms man, I'm strong on
trying to assist when they comehome, but I believe that we
definitely have to talk abouteach individual case, because
everyone's different.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Got you, Tony.
You have a program as well,right, yeah, the program.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I'm praying it be up before the first of the year.
You know it's there forcommunity awareness and bridging
gaps in communities.
So you know my goal for thenonprofit is to be that leeway,
or navigate people who needservices, you know, even if it's
for people who are coming homefrom prison or people who are
(24:04):
stuck, you know, in theday-to-day hustles, you know,
without food, shelter, education, different programs, work
opportunities, it's just a placefor the community to come and
so my plan is to catch the onesthat fall through the system.
So you know I'm not going tohold the system accountable,
because now my accountabilitycomes to the point, because I
(24:26):
have purpose.
So you know, when I look at myprison experience, a lot of
people ask me they said do youregret that?
Like it's the worst thing?
I was like no, no, I don't.
Prison gave me an opportunityto find myself Right.
I couldn't get it right thefirst time, so I needed some
more time.
I thank God for that, forputting me on the shelf so I can
attain some things about self,self and understand just going
(24:47):
out, you know, saying into theworld.
So you know it all depends howyou look at a prison experience.
You know, sometimes we get inthe worst place.
But you know, sometimes ifwe're forced to have another
chance at life, we should takeit and not take it so lightly,
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Steve, you have something in mind that you were
thinking of doing in terms ofhelping people to transition out
.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Well, I've talked me and chris have talked a couple
of times.
Yeah, um, to my own fault, Ijust allow my job to to dominate
too much and uh, you know,believe it or not, I really have
an issue with that because mypassion is to help other people,
man, because I I know what it'slike when you, you know, when
you get out of prison, right,you don't have that correct
mindset, you don't have thatcorrect support system.
(25:33):
When I got out, believe it ornot, none of the guys never knew
this, but I drew my energy ofstaying out and trying to do the
right thing off of them becauseI saw them, like our brother
Chester, when I got out, he wasalready doing his thing, he was
in construction, he was meetingpeople and this, that and the
other, and, right, you know,chris got out and his life was
(25:55):
going in the right direction.
So there were times where youknow you do try to find jobs and
you keep getting knocked down,and you know your mind does take
you to that, that space whereto man, I can make me some fast
money.
But then you know you have youhave to think of those
consequences of your actions.
You know, and you know, as faras me, man, I'm just looking for
an opportunity that I feel thatI probably have to make myself
(26:18):
diving in there and contactingsome people, man, and getting
involved.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's easy to get distracted out.
Here too, it's easy to getdistracted by so many things.
You have a passion for the dothings, but there's so many
things coming at you.
You got to work.
If you don't work, you don'teat.
So you got to make sure you dothat first and make other things
happen, so not going to holdyou guys up.
Man, I really appreciate thisconversation.
(26:42):
This is the first one, so it'sgoing to be hopefully many more
we're going to have.
But before we go, I love to askthis question and I want to
start with you, chris.
So what would you say to youryounger self today if you had
the opportunity to go back intime to say something?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Oh man, oh, that's, that's, that's that's loaded.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
What would I?
Say yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I would first tell myself you have everything you
need to follow your dreams.
Because I mean, I'm not justbeing cliche, I was about to go
to the military.
I mean I was doing everythingthat a normal, because you guys
have to understand now.
I was incarcerated 18, 19 yearsold, wow, and I didn't come
(27:25):
home until I was I know Tonymentioned his 30s I didn't see a
day of 30, none on the outside.
So I would have to tell myyoung self then man, you have
everything you need.
Yeah, stay in school, um, go tomilitary, whatever, whatever
you know, I was trying to just,you just just stay focused, you,
you're not missing anything,you don't have to fit in and, um
(27:47):
, that's it, man, that's what Iwould tell myself so, Chris, you
mean to tell me you was goingto the military.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Well, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I'm messing with you.
Yeah, I had choices, man.
You know, I had choices.
Yes, sir, yes.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Hey Tony.
What would you tell youryounger self?
What would you tell youryounger self if you had the
opportunity?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
If you allow me to say this, and I'll get to it I'm
going to be very brief, okay.
You know, when we talk about ourexperiences and for anyone
who's listening, you know I camehome I slept on three different
people's couches for threeyears, no license, couldn't
afford my court fines, couldn'tsee my kids because I didn't
have a job to pay child support,so I didn't have the courage to
(28:32):
go to court.
You know, I was without alicense for about, I guess,
eight years until they passedthe law.
I worked, I slept in anadmission and I slept in
shelters and I was just sodetermined that I wasn't going
back to prison, not forignorance.
So there are people who aregoing to come out and I just say
(28:54):
to yourself, the person that'scoming out, to those conditions,
don't give up, man, just findyourself and be isolated you
know what I'm saying and work ona plan and definitely find a
spiritual base.
What I would tell myself, if Ican go back, I wouldn't have
changed a thing because Iwouldn't have listened to me
anyway.
So I would have told them.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I love this guy, I love him.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I'm going to go listen, bro, because, see, I'm
one of them guys that had tofigure this out on my own.
So what I tell self every dayabove ground, god has a purpose
for you.
You just got to hold on becausethere's a blessing in the mesh,
yeah, yeah.
So that's what I would tell.
That's what I would tell self.
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
What would you?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
say to self, steve, I think Tony really just said it
best man because he's keeping itreal.
You know we all seem, know wehad to learn, you know, but, um,
if I had to say anything, Iprobably would say I would
listen to.
You know what my mother wastrying to school me on a lot of
(30:00):
times.
You know from her ownexperience.
She, you know she was raising ayoung man.
But you know she gave me some,some street, some street wisdom,
yeah, and some some.
And you know, I just wish Iwould have listened a little bit
more and made smarter decisions.
But, like Tony said, you knowwhen you look back at it.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I wouldn't listen.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Wouldn't listen.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yeah, I wouldn't listen.
Copy that man Copy that I don'tthink I would have either.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, yeah, Right right.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
That's a good point.
Shout out to tony, because I Iain't even listening to the
parents.
I know I wouldn't listen to me.
Yep, yep, there it is wow and ifyou, if you think about it, man
, maybe everything that we didgo through made us into the men
we are, to have a heart forother men.
You know, had we not gonethrough those seasons of ups and
(30:49):
downs, perhaps we wouldn't havethat compassion to have these
programs to reach back to helpsomebody else who's incarcerated
and coming out.
So, but I like what you said,tony.
Shout out to you again, tony,for saying we wouldn't have
listened.
No way, hey, this is what it'sall about.
Hey, this is what it's all about, man Having these conversations
(31:10):
.
We can laugh, we can have fun,and that's what this is all
about.
On, let's Just Talk About itAgain.
Thank y'all so much, man, forbeing a part of this episode.
I can't wait to have y'all back.
It's going to be a whole lot offun.
Thank you once again, mrValentine, Mr Bethea and Mr
Morgan.
Thank y'all for having meAppreciate y, mr Bethea and Mr
Morgan.
Thank y'all for having meappreciate y'all, man before we
go.
Thank you, man before we go.
(31:30):
Is there anything you want tosay to the listening audience
before we sign off?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
what I want to say is this you know, always say this
there should be no disillusionfor where we live.
And if you're going to pursue alife of crime, educate yourself
.
You make your own life choices,but for those who teeter on
that line, there is another lifeout there.
Sometimes it just takes courage, faith and sustainability to go
out and face those and get whatyou want in this life.
(31:56):
Love it, that's all I'd like toleave you.
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Anything you want to say, Steve, before we sign off.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Well, one of my favorite scriptures, Romans 8,.
It talks about all things worktogether for the good of those
that love the Lord, and evenincarcerations, even trials and
tribulations all those thingswork towards the good.
So for those that findthemselves in some hardship,
it's going to be okay.
Just stay strong and keep thefaith and keep moving forward.
(32:23):
Wow, I love it.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
What about you, chris ?
Hey, man, if I had to leave theartist with anything, it would
be whatever what you're drivenby, because it depends on who
I'm talking to.
But, man, I know that thingslike his heart, as Tony said
earlier, and we face challenges.
But I would say, if God beforeyou, man, who in the world could
be?
If you really believe thatyou're going to have challenges,
(32:46):
whether you're outside orwhether you're inside, but if
God is on your side, man, I mean, I believe, as Steve just said,
all things will work together.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yes, sir, Thank you all.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
man Appreciate you for being on, let's just talk
about it.
Love y'all man Brothers forlife.
Thank you, love you too,brother.
Talk to you soon.
All right Brothers for life,brother.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Wow, what an amazing conversation Shout out to my
brothers, steve, chris and Tony,for doing this interview, who I
consider my brothers for life.
You know all of them had somepowerful things to say that I
believe could help some youngman or young lady change their
minds for making a bad decisionthat could possibly lead them
down the road to a place calledprison.
So if you know someone who'sgoing down that road, feel free
(33:27):
to share this episode with them,because you never know, it may
help to change their minds.
Again, thank you so much forlistening to this episode of
let's Just Talk About it podcast.
Don't forget to download anddon't forget to share.
Also, if you want to share withme how this podcast has helped
you, you can reach me at let'sJust Talk About it 22 at
yahoocom and now on Facebook,just type in Chuck L-J-T-A-I.
(33:53):
So, as always, until next time.
Hey, don't hold it in, butlet's just talk about it.
Talk to you soon.
Hey, welcome back to let's Just Talk About it podcast
.
I'm your host, chuck, and, ifyou're here for the first time,
this platform was created togive genuine people just like
you an opportunity to share aportion of your life's journey.
So, with that being said, Idecided to go back to the
archives and pull out thisamazing conversation that I had
with my good friends AntonioMorgan, stephen Bethea and Chris
(00:30):
Valentine, where we talkedabout our journey through the
prison system and how it waswhen we got out of the prison
system.
So, hey, you don't want to missthis conversation today.
As a matter of fact, do me afavor Go and grab your husband,
your wife, your children, oreven call a friend and gather
around to listen to myconversation with Steve, chris
and Tony on let's Just TalkAbout it podcast.
(00:52):
Hey, let's jump right in.
I have three guys who I call mybrothers today on let's Just
(01:12):
Talk About it.
I have Tony Morgan from episodenumber four, I have Steve
Bethea and I have ChrisValentine all my brothers and I
want to thank you guys for beinga part of this episode.
Our whole friendship started ata prison called Camp 4 in
Baskerville, virginia, where weall served prison time, but now
we've all been blessed to haveanother chance to be free on the
(01:33):
outside, and thank you guys,thank you guys.
As always, I love to jump rightinto my interview, so I want to
start with you, steve, to tellthe listeners a little bit about
yourself, in terms of whereyou're from and what you're up
to now.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Well, I'm originally from Newport News, virginia.
I currently reside in Clayton,north Carolina, which is right
near Clayton, and right now Iwork as a district manager with
Pizza Hut Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
What about you, Chris ?
Tell the listeners aboutyourself.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'm currently residing in Durham, north
Carolina.
I was born and raised inHenderson, north Carolina, which
is about 30 minutes from here.
I'm now a what I do for aliving.
I'm an owner-operator, I own atrucking company business and
I'm trying to raise a family aswell.
That's what I'm doing now.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Got you.
We all know my man, Tony Morgan.
You want to say something, Tony, about yourself again.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, I'm here as a repeat visitor on your show,
which I'm grateful for.
I hail from Petersburg,virginia.
I'm in transition betweenVirginia and North Carolina,
pursuing my education backgroundand also hoping to start a
nonprofit, so that's what I'm inthe process of doing.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Got you, man, appreciate you guys.
I wanted to have thisparticular episode because I
wanted to have a real, genuineconversation with some real men,
so the listening audience canknow that men can have
conversations too.
So, guys, picture yourselves ata table at a restaurant.
We're eating together, we'rehaving a whole lot of fun.
(03:04):
Man, we're just having ageneral conversation.
And one of the main reasonsalso I wanted to have this
conversation is that I'mrealizing that we're losing that
ability to have communication,that real communication, and
therefore, as men, we tend tohold a lot of stuff in to the
point that it comes outsometimes in a lot of different
(03:26):
negative ways.
So I want to talk about, firstof all, the importance of
communication.
Can anybody speak to that?
How important is communicationto you as a man?
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Well, I'll go first.
I think, just like women, whenthey get together they are able
to talk about things that womengo through, and men need to do
the same Sometimes.
You know, we, as men, we tendto hold our feelings in or our
thought processes in because,you know, coming up we've been.
(03:56):
You know, some of us have beentaught not all of us, but some
of us have been taught that menare always, you know, we're
always the rock, we're alwaysthe strong ones, and that you
know showing any signs ofweakness, you know we're always
the rock, we're always thestrong ones, and that you know.
Showing any signs of weakness,you know it isn't good.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Right, you want to jump in Tone.
Tell us what you think aboutcommunication.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You know communication is key.
You know that's one of theprimal needs of humanity and in
today's society, you know, wefeel as men, that we have behind
stigmas how men are supposed tobe and yet there are men
suffering silently, you know,because we live behind a veil of
machoism.
You know, when we come togetherwe can take back information.
(04:36):
You know that we can take backfor our families, our business,
our personal life, our spirituallife, and I think communication
is key.
I think men coming together andjust putting it on the table,
you know, allows everybody to beon an equal playing ground and
say that we don't have ittogether, you know.
So we're here combininginformation and experience to
find out.
You know, we can find someanswers and solutions to what
(04:58):
we're going through, wow.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
What, what you think, chris?
Um, I, I concur with the guys.
Man, I, um, you know my wife,she's a therapist.
So you know I'm huge, yeah, I'mtalking, and, um, I mean she's,
she more so driven than I mean,more than more so than I used
to be?
Um, now, I, I know that sharingis so important because, um,
you know, we talk about out ofmind's devil workshop, yeah, but
also either thoughts are aswell.
So if you really don't knowwhat your partner we're talking
(05:28):
about, just relationships, whatthey're thinking, you know you
can easily um, have the wrongidea about something because you
may or may not have actuallyexpressed you know what, the
real situation, what, what'sreally happening, right?
So, yeah, I'm huge oncommunication.
Now, man, I know when we docommunicate, we can do a lot by
just sharing with one another Ilike what you said, steve man.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Sometimes, you know, we've been taught not to talk
and we hold a lot of stuff in,so I'm learning the importance
of of communication, just justjust being yourself and just
communicating, that you don'thave to put on no airs, you
don't have to be nobody else,but just be yourself and just
talk.
You know, that's where thiswhole thing came about.
Um, let's just talk about it.
Let's just talk about itbecause I wanted to create a
(06:11):
platform where genuine peoplecan come, just like you guys,
and just share and talk aboutreal life issues, you know.
So that's what this wholeplatform is about, man.
So again, I thank you guys.
So I have a lot ofconversations about the
experience of a prison.
So, chris, tell me yourexperience, how you got to that
prison term, what led me tocommitting a crime.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, that's basically what you yeah.
Well, man, I would say um moreof uh influence right than
anything else.
Um, I was brought up in apretty good upbringing yeah I'm
single parent but father liveddown the street.
You know, I had grandparents, Ihad people that supported me.
I I had a good environment thatI raised up in.
(06:53):
However, because of somefriends and more peer pressure
and, um, I I was I won'tnecessarily say fitting in
because I was already a part ofa group, but I was more swayed
when I started seeing what theguys were doing, you know, as
far as from hustling to robbing,to just the money, and I felt
(07:20):
like I could get away with itbecause they were getting away
with it.
And then I tried it with thembecause they kept saying, man,
it's easy money.
So I tried that and we got awaywith it a few times and after
that, ultimately, you know, wegot, we got, we got caught, got
arrested and you know that's awhole, nother long story.
But, that's how.
That's how I happened.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
How much time did you do?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I did 13 years and 10 months.
Got you Almost 14 years, wow.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Hey Steve, if you don't mind, tell the listening
audience how you know you endedup in Camp 4 with all the rest
of us.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Well, hey, you know, the thing is like Chris said.
There's a lot of myths that youknow.
Most people that come to prisonthey sort of had like a uh,
they came up in a roughupbringing, right you know, just
like chris, you know I wasbrought up by a single mother
and you know she taught me rightfrom wrong.
You know, and, um, you know,eventually you get out there and
(08:16):
you know you're going to startexperiencing and experimenting
with, uh, different things andyou need new people and and you
know people have, uh, certaininfluences on you with me.
You know I was more so dealingwith the white collar crimes,
stuff like that.
I did some breaking some, somewhat they call bne's, breaking
the entrance and you know,forging some checks and stuff
(08:37):
like that.
And you know, just like mostyou know young men, you know you
get away with it once and getaway with it twice.
So you think you know, youthink you're kind of untouchable
, so you know I just kept doingit and then eventually I end up
getting caught and you know therest is history.
You know, but I I do like whatchris said you know about his
upbringing, because every, allof us, or all people that that
(08:58):
you know come becomeincarcerated don't always come
up in a rough upbringing.
Yeah, it's not always like that,but you know the world or the
society would like to believethat.
So you know I ended up doingalmost eight and a half years
before I got I was blessed.
Before I got out I was able toget go on work release.
But time is time when you don'thave, you know, all of your
(09:20):
freedom.
But you know, that's how Ibecame involved.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Your turn, tony, how you know all of your freedom.
But you know that's how Ibecame involved.
Your turn, tony.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
How did you get to Camp 4?
You know that's an eclecticquestion because I'm going to
base it on a truth.
You know, for me it wasignorance.
You know, ignorance got methere to Camp 4.
Ignorance continued two yearslater when I went to prison
again for another seven and ahalf years.
You know, I listened to thegentleman that came before my
brothers and we talk aboutinfluence.
(09:48):
The biggest thing was theignorance to what happens after
you commit a crime.
You can get so engulfed ontrying to stay in the void of
the police and getting yourmoney whatever way you can.
But I was ignorant about whatwas going to happen in the
courtroom, ignorant aboutlawyers, ignorant about the law.
(10:08):
I was ignorant, you know, andit was to the point that there
were people trying to tell me,but I refused to listen.
So it led me to making choicesbased upon my ignorance and
that's what landed me in 10-4.
I'm guilty, I pleaded guilty inthe court of law, but it was my
ignorance.
You know that I've seen thatseems to annihilate young men
(10:29):
these days, you know, because werefuse to see another light
into truth.
So that's what got me there.
Wow, yes, sir Got you.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Okay, let's turn the corner.
Okay, we out here.
Now we released.
So what was the?
What was the hardest thing incoming outside, transitioning
from there to freedom, that youcould, that you can think of
being free now, tony.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
You know, I'm going to tell you, the hardest thing
for me was wearing that badge asa convicted felon Mm-hmm.
Wow, you know, when I speak ofignorance, yeah, that was hard.
Yeah, you know, my ignorancewas a point.
I spent my time betteringmyself, you know, and just
making myself a prize through alot of different things and the
way things work.
But when I came out, it wasalways the bounds of saying,
(11:12):
okay, now you enlightened, sohow do you tread?
So you can be angry at a system, you know, but the anger comes
from within, because now yourealize how much time you wasted
.
So when I look at it, you knowI started this at 27.
We were in our 20s when wefirst met and I came home and
(11:32):
they were singing me happy 40thbirthday.
So I only had two years on thestreet at 30 years old and I
came home at 40.
Now I'm 50 years old.
So when I start looking at it,it's a transition to realize
wake up and say this is what Imade of my life.
You know what I'm saying.
We can blame it on POs orwhatever.
It's just that these are someof the scales that you have to
(11:55):
have to weigh.
You know when you commit thesecrimes and you get the
opportunity to be free again.
So the hardest thing for me iswearing that shroud of convicted
felon, knowing that you cancontribute to the community and
give back, and finding thatleeway or opportunity to do that
.
That has been one struggle formyself Because, no, we all need
someone.
I truly believe that people arethe true value of commodity.
(12:17):
You know what I'm saying.
It's not things.
People are, and sometimes inthe community, when we come back
, we don't receive people likethat Some of our family members
do.
But it was me transitioning tothe point to say, okay, I served
my time.
I want to be a productivecitizen, but you're not allowing
me to do that because you'renot giving me an opportunity.
You keep saying this issomething that happened 20 years
(12:38):
ago and you're saying this iswhy I can't vacuum cars at your
dealership, because of the bags.
For $8 an hour I was willing towork.
I made 23 cents an hour.
I was willing to slave.
They wouldn't give me anopportunity, right.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Because of that badge .
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Because of that badge I wore.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
That felony badge yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, felony badge.
I went to school.
I started going back to schoolat 40 years old.
I got myself, I made the dean'slist, twice the president's
list.
I got on the National Board ofHonor for Collegiate Scholars.
They invited me there.
I could have went to any school.
I could have went to Harvard, Icould have went anywhere, but
because of that felony iteliminated me as a barrier crime
(13:18):
to serve in a profession that Iknew more from lived experience
and also educational knowledge,which has barred me from that
profession.
Wow, I met the governor, theSenate governor.
They told me go.
I got my rights restored.
But that's telling.
That has been a hard thing, man.
Wow, yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
So, Steve, speak to us about your transition.
What was the battles for you interms of transitioning to
freedom?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
The biggest battle for me was primarily starting
over.
You know, when I came home, alot of things changed as far as
how the city was.
You know, things were tore down, Things were rebuilt and for a
while I felt like a stranger inmy own home because I kind of
had to learn certain spots allover again.
Yeah right, but my biggesthurdle was, like Tony said, was
(14:04):
trying to get a job.
You know sometimes, you know, Iknow they teach us to be honest
about you know, your felony-Right.
You know, and it's been a fewtimes that I did and, like Tony
said, because of that badge, youknow it's like every you know,
you know served your time andit's been 15, 20 years ago.
(14:24):
You know you still carryingthat bag around your neck saying
that you're a felon and theydon't want to give you a chance,
and most oftentimes, you knowpeople that's been incarcerated.
We just want to get back outthere and start rebuilding.
You know some of us, you know,yeah, we still have that
mentality where we want to goout and make that fast money.
But you do have that group thatyou know.
Okay, I've done this, I'm readyto do this now and to what tony
(14:48):
said, that all the time that wewe gave to the state yeah in
reference to get you knowserving time.
We can't get that back and getit back.
You know we lost.
You know, like myself lost.
We lost a lot of productiveyears.
You know whether building,building a lifestyle, or you
know, like with me, you know Idon't have any biological kids,
but you know you lose that timeand you can't get it back and
(15:08):
young people need to realizethat you know sometimes they
glamorize.
you glamorize being incarcerated, but they don't really
understand the magnitude of whatyou lose once you're
incarcerated and then thereality of when you get back out
, because a lot of times youknow the Department of
Corrections don't really prepareyou for re-entry.
You know you kind of got tolike take that by the horns
(15:29):
yourself.
You know, take advantage ofthose classes, those programs or
whatever that they have inside.
But the world is ever-changing,as we already know.
It's ever-changing, so thebiggest hurdle was getting out
and restarting.
Wow.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So what was yours, Chris?
What was your?
Speaker 1 (15:44):
challenge.
I can go along with the guysand I really like the way Tony
said.
I don't think I've never usedthat term before Permanent
Jordan, but that's real, that'sreal talk, man Shout out to Tony
, because you were there.
You were there.
Even though you may not seethis scar anymore or you may
(16:06):
have been healed from the scar,everyone else still see this
scar.
You may say, well, man, I canget in the race, I can run just
like everyone else, but someoneelse still is saying, no, you
have that scar there.
I think I shared with youbefore, chuck, how I went.
You know, went to apply forthis certain job and I had a guy
that took me to apply for thejob.
He was selling drugs Me.
(16:28):
On the other hand, I wasdetermined to do right and, you
know, go and live a productivelife.
I get in there.
They accept his application,but they I was being honest,
right, and they told me, no, wedon't have, we don't have.
So you know, I had so manyencounters like that where, you
know, I was turned away and, youknow, a little bit discouraged
(16:48):
and I know, you know, thispodcast is for everyone, yes,
but I have to say, man, if itwasn't for the grace of God,
that's right, right.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Say that again.
If it wasn't for what?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
If it wasn't for the grace of God, absolutely, that
encouraged me in mydiscouragement because, there
were days where I was like lord,I just want to get a chance.
Yeah, I just want anopportunity, absolutely.
That's why and I like the way,tony, you know you want to try
to do uh, get a program startedfor guys.
Okay, you know you and I talkabout it, chuck yeah um, because
you have to have people thatactually have a heart for me and
(17:20):
because it's tough, man, whenyou come out and if you don't
have the right people around you, right, you can easily be
derailed, you can be discouraged.
Because you can have a plan,you can think you want to do the
right thing, but yet because,man, people turn you away.
Yeah, you know it candiscourage you.
So, yes, man, the hardest partfor me just like those guys the
(17:41):
tony and steve just said ishaving a felon and, um, just
having the opportunity, man, todo what you know you can do,
right.
So, yeah, that's it.
I agree with what is everythingthey're saying?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
man, yes, yeah I think for mine it was starting
over.
Um, I was blessed to have mydad already working in a
particular spot, so I was like Icalled him before I came home
because I was like, man, I'mmaking 23 cents and I started
thinking about what if I make$10 an hour?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I started counting on my fingers.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I said man.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
I said can I get a job?
And he made it happen.
So when I came home I startedworking, like three days later,
on the night shift, man, but oneof the craziest things, like
you said, steve, things change.
And it was something on thecounter at my mom and dad's
house and it was something likea satellite.
I thought it was a DVD player.
So that's how much time I hadmissed.
(18:34):
I'm thinking I'm like, how canyou open this?
But it was for the cable, but Ihad missed so much time, man,
so much time.
And things change, change.
You got these phones and allthat kind of stuff.
So starting over was one of thebiggest things.
Do y'all think, um, becausethese programs I want to talk
about, this program you'retalking about too, chris and and
(18:55):
tony, but do you think that'sthe reason why there's a
revolving door sometimes, thatpeople really don't want to go
back to prison, but they, theyhave nowhere else to go?
I had family, we had family,but a lot of people don't have
that family, they don't haveanywhere to go.
So do you think that's a bigissue, tony?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I'm a speak candidate , you know.
I just want to give a quote onprison policy dot org.
You know it states thatAfrican-Americans make up 13
percent but there's over 38percent of black persons in jail
.
So when I started thinkingabout my whole trip, I got to
stay with Chris, if it wasn'tfor the grace of God.
So when I look at the program,some of these programs are
(19:35):
aesthetically there but they'renot there to reach, because you
have people who are educated butyet have a stigma towards the
ones they're trying to help.
So they can look book-wise tounderstand it and statistically,
but they don't understand thedemographics because some people
are coming back into the samesituation that brought them into
the system in the first place.
So when we start to get intothese systems, I look at it to
(19:56):
the point that it's an awakeningfor everyone, because you know
all of our shared experiences.
Whether you're a parole officer, police officer, law
enforcement, we should worktogether and we should use the
experiences of men who have gonethere, who have a heart for men
, that they can come to aconclusion and say how can we
make it better?
You know the system is there toset up, you know to be proactive
(20:19):
, but it's also there for peopleto fall through the cracks, is
also there for people to fallthrough the cracks, and that's
something that we always have tocontinue to work on, because as
long as we're people, there'salways going to be crime.
It just goes back to the onethat we keep people from the
recidivism rate and start givingpeople opportunities.
And one thing I believe in theprogram is in the welcoming of
the community, because you'regoing to be welcomed by your
loved ones, but no one.
(20:39):
A lot of people from thecommunity don't come back and
say, hey.
A lot of people from thecommunity don't come back and
say, hey, I got a loaf of bread.
Here's a turkey, you know,welcome home.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I don't know what you need.
They don't do that.
Yeah, no, no.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
No, no, but as soon as someone breaks the law and it
happens to that person, thenit's a problem.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I'm saying but there are a lot of people.
I'm not negating the fact thatthere are people who want to
have another chance at life andI think some of the programs
need to work with people whohave gone that way and have good
intentions.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
So.
So, chris, I want to.
I want to speak about theprogram you mentioned, a program
called inside out.
I want, I want you to mentionthat on the platform, man,
because you know, you never know.
If you mentioned that, younever know what could happen.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So I want you to speak a little bit about lblc,
which is letting brother lovecontinue, and it, um, the
thought came from in the passageout of hebrews, where you know
hebrews 13, 1 through 3,absolutely verse 3, where it
talks about remembering themthat are bound, as though you're
bound with them.
(21:39):
And um, you know, I was goinginto the, you know the halfway
houses and the?
Um, some of the federal prisonsand even the?
Um some of the?
Um low custody prison here inraleigh and um, you know, as far
as I didn't get the funding,but still we had some traction,
we had some movement.
Right, we're trying to see guys.
But I think one of the mainthings that I think, as Tony
(22:02):
said, most time the people thatdo have these programs in place,
they have been funded, but theyreally just get numbers.
I'm not going to say everyonehave these programs in place,
they have been funded, but they,they, they really just get
numbers.
I don't.
I'm not gonna say everyone, I'mnot negating that that all the
programs are not really gearedtoward actually seeing
transformation, but, um, a lotof them they really don't know
how to to really see someone allthe way through.
(22:23):
Yeah, and I say that because,man, I think one of the key
things that I wanted to try to,um, you know, imparting people
or people that were runningprograms, was being transparent,
being honest about eachindividual case.
Right, because every case isnot the same.
Everyone don't have the samebackground and, as Tony said
earlier, and I believe Steve aswell, even though you may have
(22:45):
the support of family andeverything because I had
everything in place when I cameon Support family, everyone.
But again, I say, man, I wasdetermined, I was determined to
do right.
I was determined to try to makesome of my life.
You can have guys that havesome determination, but, man, if
(23:06):
they're not persistent, if they, you know, trying to push this
thing all the way through, theycan, you know go back or fall
back, or revert back.
That's why I like the word theyuse recidivism.
Because, man, if you're not, ifyou, you know, I use my three
p's, you know purpose, passionand being persistent I like it,
then you can easily, uh, revertback to what you used to know.
(23:27):
So, um, I'm strong on theprograms man, I'm strong on
trying to assist when they comehome, but I believe that we
definitely have to talk abouteach individual case, because
everyone's different.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Got you, Tony.
You have a program as well,right, yeah, the program.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I'm praying it be up before the first of the year.
You know it's there forcommunity awareness and bridging
gaps in communities.
So you know my goal for thenonprofit is to be that leeway,
or navigate people who needservices, you know, even if it's
for people who are coming homefrom prison or people who are
(24:04):
stuck, you know, in theday-to-day hustles, you know,
without food, shelter, education, different programs, work
opportunities, it's just a placefor the community to come and
so my plan is to catch the onesthat fall through the system.
So you know I'm not going tohold the system accountable,
because now my accountabilitycomes to the point, because I
(24:26):
have purpose.
So you know, when I look at myprison experience, a lot of
people ask me they said do youregret that?
Like it's the worst thing?
I was like no, no, I don't.
Prison gave me an opportunityto find myself Right.
I couldn't get it right thefirst time, so I needed some
more time.
I thank God for that, forputting me on the shelf so I can
attain some things about self,self and understand just going
(24:47):
out, you know, saying into theworld.
So you know it all depends howyou look at a prison experience.
You know, sometimes we get inthe worst place.
But you know, sometimes ifwe're forced to have another
chance at life, we should takeit and not take it so lightly,
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Steve, you have something in mind that you were
thinking of doing in terms ofhelping people to transition out
.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Well, I've talked me and chris have talked a couple
of times.
Yeah, um, to my own fault, Ijust allow my job to to dominate
too much and uh, you know,believe it or not, I really have
an issue with that because mypassion is to help other people,
man, because I I know what it'slike when you, you know, when
you get out of prison, right,you don't have that correct
mindset, you don't have thatcorrect support system.
(25:33):
When I got out, believe it ornot, none of the guys never knew
this, but I drew my energy ofstaying out and trying to do the
right thing off of them becauseI saw them, like our brother
Chester, when I got out, he wasalready doing his thing, he was
in construction, he was meetingpeople and this, that and the
other, and, right, you know,chris got out and his life was
(25:55):
going in the right direction.
So there were times where youknow you do try to find jobs and
you keep getting knocked down,and you know your mind does take
you to that, that space whereto man, I can make me some fast
money.
But then you know you have youhave to think of those
consequences of your actions.
You know, and you know, as faras me, man, I'm just looking for
an opportunity that I feel thatI probably have to make myself
(26:18):
diving in there and contactingsome people, man, and getting
involved.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's easy to get distracted out.
Here too, it's easy to getdistracted by so many things.
You have a passion for the dothings, but there's so many
things coming at you.
You got to work.
If you don't work, you don'teat.
So you got to make sure you dothat first and make other things
happen, so not going to holdyou guys up.
Man, I really appreciate thisconversation.
(26:42):
This is the first one, so it'sgoing to be hopefully many more
we're going to have.
But before we go, I love to askthis question and I want to
start with you, chris.
So what would you say to youryounger self today if you had
the opportunity to go back intime to say something?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Oh man, oh, that's, that's, that's that's loaded.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
What would I?
Say yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I would first tell myself you have everything you
need to follow your dreams.
Because I mean, I'm not justbeing cliche, I was about to go
to the military.
I mean I was doing everythingthat a normal, because you guys
have to understand now.
I was incarcerated 18, 19 yearsold, wow, and I didn't come
(27:25):
home until I was I know Tonymentioned his 30s I didn't see a
day of 30, none on the outside.
So I would have to tell myyoung self then man, you have
everything you need.
Yeah, stay in school, um, go tomilitary, whatever, whatever
you know, I was trying to just,you just just stay focused, you,
you're not missing anything,you don't have to fit in and, um
(27:47):
, that's it, man, that's what Iwould tell myself so, Chris, you
mean to tell me you was goingto the military.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Well, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I'm messing with you.
Yeah, I had choices, man.
You know, I had choices.
Yes, sir, yes.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Hey Tony.
What would you tell youryounger self?
What would you tell youryounger self if you had the
opportunity?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
If you allow me to say this, and I'll get to it I'm
going to be very brief, okay.
You know, when we talk about ourexperiences and for anyone
who's listening, you know I camehome I slept on three different
people's couches for threeyears, no license, couldn't
afford my court fines, couldn'tsee my kids because I didn't
have a job to pay child support,so I didn't have the courage to
(28:32):
go to court.
You know, I was without alicense for about, I guess,
eight years until they passedthe law.
I worked, I slept in anadmission and I slept in
shelters and I was just sodetermined that I wasn't going
back to prison, not forignorance.
So there are people who aregoing to come out and I just say
(28:54):
to yourself, the person that'scoming out, to those conditions,
don't give up, man, just findyourself and be isolated you
know what I'm saying and work ona plan and definitely find a
spiritual base.
What I would tell myself, if Ican go back, I wouldn't have
changed a thing because Iwouldn't have listened to me
anyway.
So I would have told them.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I love this guy, I love him.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I'm going to go listen, bro, because, see, I'm
one of them guys that had tofigure this out on my own.
So what I tell self every dayabove ground, god has a purpose
for you.
You just got to hold on becausethere's a blessing in the mesh,
yeah, yeah.
So that's what I would tell.
That's what I would tell self.
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
What would you?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
say to self, steve, I think Tony really just said it
best man because he's keeping itreal.
You know we all seem, know wehad to learn, you know, but, um,
if I had to say anything, Iprobably would say I would
listen to.
You know what my mother wastrying to school me on a lot of
(30:00):
times.
You know from her ownexperience.
She, you know she was raising ayoung man.
But you know she gave me some,some street, some street wisdom,
yeah, and some some.
And you know, I just wish Iwould have listened a little bit
more and made smarter decisions.
But, like Tony said, you knowwhen you look back at it.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I wouldn't listen.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Wouldn't listen.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yeah, I wouldn't listen.
Copy that man Copy that I don'tthink I would have either.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, yeah, Right right.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
That's a good point.
Shout out to tony, because I Iain't even listening to the
parents.
I know I wouldn't listen to me.
Yep, yep, there it is wow and ifyou, if you think about it, man
, maybe everything that we didgo through made us into the men
we are, to have a heart forother men.
You know, had we not gonethrough those seasons of ups and
(30:49):
downs, perhaps we wouldn't havethat compassion to have these
programs to reach back to helpsomebody else who's incarcerated
and coming out.
So, but I like what you said,tony.
Shout out to you again, tony,for saying we wouldn't have
listened.
No way, hey, this is what it'sall about.
Hey, this is what it's all about, man Having these conversations
(31:10):
.
We can laugh, we can have fun,and that's what this is all
about.
On, let's Just Talk About itAgain.
Thank y'all so much, man, forbeing a part of this episode.
I can't wait to have y'all back.
It's going to be a whole lot offun.
Thank you once again, mrValentine, Mr Bethea and Mr
Morgan.
Thank y'all for having meAppreciate y, mr Bethea and Mr
Morgan.
Thank y'all for having meappreciate y'all, man before we
go.
Thank you, man before we go.
(31:30):
Is there anything you want tosay to the listening audience
before we sign off?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
what I want to say is this you know, always say this
there should be no disillusionfor where we live.
And if you're going to pursue alife of crime, educate yourself
.
You make your own life choices,but for those who teeter on
that line, there is another lifeout there.
Sometimes it just takes courage, faith and sustainability to go
out and face those and get whatyou want in this life.
(31:56):
Love it, that's all I'd like toleave you.
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Anything you want to say, Steve, before we sign off.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Well, one of my favorite scriptures, Romans 8,.
It talks about all things worktogether for the good of those
that love the Lord, and evenincarcerations, even trials and
tribulations all those thingswork towards the good.
So for those that findthemselves in some hardship,
it's going to be okay.
Just stay strong and keep thefaith and keep moving forward.
(32:23):
Wow, I love it.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
What about you, chris ?
Hey, man, if I had to leave theartist with anything, it would
be whatever what you're drivenby, because it depends on who
I'm talking to.
But, man, I know that thingslike his heart, as Tony said
earlier, and we face challenges.
But I would say, if God beforeyou, man, who in the world could
be?
If you really believe thatyou're going to have challenges,
(32:46):
whether you're outside orwhether you're inside, but if
God is on your side, man, I mean, I believe, as Steve just said,
all things will work together.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yes, sir, Thank you all.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
man Appreciate you for being on, let's just talk
about it.
Love y'all man Brothers forlife.
Thank you, love you too,brother.
Talk to you soon.
All right Brothers for life,brother.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Wow, what an amazing conversation Shout out to my
brothers, steve, chris and Tony,for doing this interview, who I
consider my brothers for life.
You know all of them had somepowerful things to say that I
believe could help some youngman or young lady change their
minds for making a bad decisionthat could possibly lead them
down the road to a place calledprison.
So if you know someone who'sgoing down that road, feel free
(33:27):
to share this episode with them,because you never know, it may
help to change their minds.
Again, thank you so much forlistening to this episode of
let's Just Talk About it podcast.
Don't forget to download anddon't forget to share.
Also, if you want to share withme how this podcast has helped
you, you can reach me at let'sJust Talk About it 22 at
yahoocom and now on Facebook,just type in Chuck L-J-T-A-I.
(33:53):
So, as always, until next time.
Hey, don't hold it in, butlet's just talk about it.
Talk to you soon.
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