December 3, 2023 • 28 mins
Pascalle, a fairy godmother of public speaking, spills her simple secrets to sounding super confident as a podcast host.
Elijah, the host of Let's Start a Podcast, digs deep into topics about achieving public speaking greatness, personal growth, and overcoming adversities (like Pascalle's career altering stroke).
Some may say that Elijah saved the best guest for the end of season 1. Some may say that the best is yet to come.
Pascalle and Elijah mix in humor, banter, and are super sneaky about sliding in action packed info that your ears won't even know your mind is soaking up the fairy godmothers magic knowledge dust.
Pascalle is available to help you with communication confidence, landing a big corporate gig, or signing your seven-figure key note appearance. Contact her at her website: https://www.presentales.com/. While there, scroll to the bottom of the page to enter your email in order to gain storytelling secrets directly from the creator of PresenTales.
Check out Let's Start a Podcast at yourpodcastsidekick.com for a tasty summary, in blog form, written by the host, Elijah.
Season 2, of Let's Start a Podcast, will be all about getting started. Why should you start a podcast? What equipment is right for the novice podcaster? What is the best way to start a podcast? New year! New Season. 2024 is going to be great!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Tis I, Lord Podcast. Are you yearning to equip yourself with the confidence to record?
(00:07):
Elijah, the skilled podcast professional, is preparing himself for a tale of tools and
skill that only a mighty podcaster may employ in one's podcast journey.
Elijah, I do believe that we shall teach our weary wanderer the confidence that they strive
to achieve. Shall we start a podcast?
We shall. It's settled.
(00:29):
Let's start a podcast.
Perfect. We look professional, we sound professional, we're all set. Pascala is here with me at
Present Tales. We're going to learn about how to become more irresistible than chocolate
cake, maybe perfecting our public speaking skills. Does that sound familiar? I don't
know where I got that, goodness.
I don't know where you might have got that.
(00:50):
The magic of having so much social content out there, you're an incredible storyteller
and you're just a whole lot of fun to all these energetic costumes that I don't know,
you have more costumes than drag queens do for the record. It's fantastic.
You have no idea.
It's nice. A lot of people don't know about the adversity, how you'd stop at nothing.
You're paralyzed, you lost your career because of that and you had to start all over again
(01:14):
to figure out why. I don't even know if your two pups were involved at that point. How
did this all come to be? Goodness. That's a short period of time. Goodness.
Yeah, it all just happened very fast, to be honest. How did all of this come to be? I
grew up in the Netherlands. That's the accent that people are hearing if they're thinking,
(01:34):
what is that accent? I grew up in the Netherlands, small town girl, countryside type stuff, moved
to the next city to become an actress. It's literally like that. My mother played Tinkerbell
in the musical Peter Pan and I fell in love with the theatre from there. I've always been
obsessed with human interaction and the way that we can portray a character. Did drama
(01:56):
school in the Netherlands, moved to the UK to do my masters and all along I've always
done shows. I've been on stage because I was four years old, which believe it or not, is
possible. Did that for a long time, ended up on the West End doing all kinds of cool
stuff and then had a stroke five years ago. I became paralyzed on the left-hand side.
(02:20):
The right side of my brain didn't get enough blood, effectively so it's an ischemic stroke
where there's not enough blood and oxygen within the brain, which means basically it
just shuts off. Luckily, it opened up again. I survived. I am relatively okay now. I don't
have a lot of paralyzation anymore. If I get really tired, for example, or I need to do
(02:43):
some really fine motor skills with my left hand, it's not going to go great. Other than
that, I am absolutely fine. But it did mean that my career in musical theater is over
and I knew that the moment it happened. That meant I needed to figure out something else.
You can feel sorry for yourself or you can just give yourself a kick up the box and do
(03:05):
something.
It's nice. It is positive though. You can rid of the Peter Pan tights because I don't
think they're that comfortable, are they? Especially if you're four and you're dancing
around, you're all cute, but when you get older, a little different.
Not great. I mean, people ask me, do you miss musical theater? And I go, no, because it's
such hard work. You never have a day off and you are hungry all of the time and forced
(03:29):
into uncomfortable costumes. So no, I don't miss it.
Fair. That part is a blessing, right? You get to try it, you get to experience it, you
can have a great time and now you don't have to wear those incredibly fascinating costumes,
if I may say.
Fascinating indeed, but definitely not comfortable and don't recommend wearing them ever.
(03:52):
People don't always understand how the power of public speaking can intertwine with podcasting.
But for me, I was worried about going through an episode of my podcast and my mind suddenly
goes blank because as you can probably see, I have big ket energy, ADHD, I see squirrels
and shiny things and I'm out. And then the panics come, the odds happen, you start to
(04:13):
struggle and you don't have a co-host, I don't, to keep on track. What's the answer? Do I
give up? Do I cry in the corner? Like, how do I recover from this?
It's very simple. You just step back, you stop talking for a second to say, hold on,
I'm going to think about what I want to say next. You just stop. Either check your nose
or go back within your brain and then you start again. I think there is such a pressure
(04:37):
on speakers, whether that is on a podcast, whether that is on stage, on a panel, to be
this perfect thing as if I'm looking into the camera right now with like an auto-queue
running by. It's not like that. You are human and you can celebrate in that humanity. So,
if you need to take a step back because you need to think real quick, do it. It's okay.
(04:58):
It's totally fine.
That's it. Just take a minute, second, however long you have.
Yeah.
Yeah. Just take however long you need in order to be, you know, effective in your communication.
Wow. I've done a long day of speaking. But what you want to do is just give yourself
that time. Be nicer to yourself. Don't think you need to be this perfect person that always
(05:19):
speaks everything perfectly. No, you can be human. You can just say, give me a second.
I'm going to check my notes. And the great thing with podcasts is you can edit it out.
Yay.
What happens if you're a DIY or you're a hobbyist that is a one person show that doesn't
always have this time for editing and you say a lot of ums and ahs and you get distracted?
Are there any tips to kind of get rid of some of that speaking habits so that you don't
(05:44):
have to edit as much?
So of course, you can always practice at becoming a better communicator. When it comes to your
ums and ahs and those non words, like the word like, really, very, those are words that
people use a lot that are not always very functional or the comment like the common,
well, nobody wants to hear that. So what you can do, you can grab a tennis ball and as
(06:10):
you know, you just start talking. So you start talking about your day or your favorite holiday
or your favorite child of memory. And every time you catch yourself saying a filler word,
you throw the ball against a wall and you catch it and you continue. Because what that
does, it turns the filler words into something physical, because it happens before we even
know that it's happened, right? It happens really quickly. It happens within the brain.
(06:32):
And when things happen within the brain, it's very hard to get them into control because
they're intangible. So we turn it into something tangible. So your filler words become tennis
ball. When you say your filler words, throw it against the wall, catch it and continue
because it shows you how and when those filler words come up, which means we can then start
working on them.
Do I get treats if I'm if I do good at this? Is that part of the part of the
(06:56):
No, unfortunately not. My golden retriever gets all of them, including the crackers that
she begs for and a little piece of ham. But what are you going to do? Right? Stay with
my dogs. They would eat my finger if I met them. Really? She just kind of gnaws on it.
Like just gently try to slobbers all over it as a thing that she does to put herself
to sleep. Like really? There's got to be a better way. Yeah. But I'll stick to tennis
(07:21):
ball. That'd be good.
Do you think that I speak too fast? Some people think that I should speak slower. Is that
a thing?
Oh, if another person tells me just speak slower, I am going to slap them. You know
what? The whole speaking slower is not the problem. It is adjusting your timing as you
(07:42):
see fit. So it's like with a song, right? If you listen to a song, it starts a bit slower,
then it speeds up and then it goes through different rhythms. It's the same with when
we speak. It's okay to speak fast, but just sometimes make sure you also speak a little
bit slower. So it's just adjusting the timing, but you don't need to speak slower in general
(08:03):
or constantly in order to be well received. If you speak quickly, that is fine. Just make
sure that you enunciate correctly and that you stress the right words so that people
know when to pay attention.
That sounds really easy.
It is.
It is. Since you've been doing this at four, it comes natural to you. So it's a piece of
(08:24):
cake for others who struggle and overthink this stuff. Throwing a tennis ball and just
taking a break seems like second nature.
I know. The thing is, I think we put so much pressure on ourselves to be perfect all of
the freaking time. And it's like, you don't need to be perfect. You need to be clear.
I don't care about perfection. Nobody cares about perfection. Actually, if you look at
(08:49):
loads of data on presentations, when people are perfect, we don't trust you. By all means,
make the mistakes because it makes us trust you more.
Is that how you coach your CEOs that get seven figure TEDx talk gigs? People at that level
seem to have so much scrutiny and in a sense of perfection. They feel so visible and seen,
(09:13):
right?
Kind of how you think about it.
Yeah. I was literally with one of my clients at lunch today and we were talking about big
seven figure keynotes exactly like this. He's like, wow, I would do that. And TED talks
and all of that stuff. And I was like, well, because he did Toastmasters and I love Toastmasters.
Let's make that really clear. It's a really great place to start your public speaking
(09:36):
career because it just gets you those flying hours. It gets you exposed to public speaking.
It gets you into a community and it's really nice. But what it also does is it sort of
makes sure to this perfect person, like a puppet almost, right? You're like, and now
I'm going to present. So you become a presenter. And that is a very dangerous thing because
a presenter is not a thing. You still just need to be you as a human. So instead of focusing
(10:02):
all the perfection, saying all the right things, all the right words in all the perfect ways
with the perfect voice, let's focus on who you are and turn that into something interesting.
If you are somebody who talks with their hands a lot, talk with your hands by all means.
But what we need to do is make it functional. So instead of you just flapping your arms
about like some crazy duck, we need to find out how you do that, why you do that and how
(10:26):
we can make it more functional for you.
Even though my wife hates this, the eyebrows, how would I incorporate that into my keynote
speaker events? Would that distract people or could I play off my sense of big kid energy
somehow?
I love big kid energy. So with the eyebrows, it's quite a funny thing when you do that.
And if you would constantly do this as you speak, it might become a little bit annoying.
(10:47):
Okay, if I do this all the time.
You practice well done.
If you use it as a tool. So for example, if I say something cheeky and I then go like
that, then it's absolutely fine. So again, it's becoming aware of what you're doing because
a lot of people are just not aware of the things that they do automatically.
(11:08):
Right.
Like the flapping of the arms. So making that awareness happen, that will turn it into something
functional because it's who you are and it's part of who you are. So why would we change
that? Let's just make it more functional.
And those who have really brought introvertedness and introverts to the spotlight, do you want
(11:30):
to celebrate them even more because they're great listeners and they're afraid of going
out and they have this introspectiveness?
Yeah, there's this big myth that introverts are terrible at public speaking, that extroverts
are automatically great. That's bollocks. Take that really clear, okay? That's absolute
bollocks because extroverts are more comfortable in the spotlight. It doesn't mean they're
(11:54):
better at it because they're often the people that just talk and talk and talk without a
real purpose. Okay.
Introverts are people that are way more introspective. They think about things much more deeply. It
takes them more time to be ready to get onto the stage. But when they are ready, they're
often really, really good presenters. The difference is that when an extrovert is done
(12:14):
talking, they'll be coming into the networking pool and be like, woohoo, yes, hello, what's
an A grade, what's an A grade, what's an A grade? The introverts will be like, I now
need some time for myself because it drains the advisory. So depending on if you are an
extrovert, an introvert or an ambivert, doesn't matter. That doesn't decide if you're a good
or a bad speaker. It's just knowing what you need in order to prepare, in order to how
(12:37):
you want to be during your speech and how you're going to treat yourself afterwards.
So if I go to the major European or American podcast convention, I probably don't want
to sign up for eight different podcast speaking events in a row because then even if I was
ambivert, I'd want to have a nap halfway through. Just know yourself.
(12:59):
Yeah. Just know yourself. Just know what you need.
It's that easy.
It is that easy. It's just celebrating humanity instead of celebrating perfection.
Respectfully, I'm just waiting for you to pinch me because it seems too good to be true.
Just think about it. Just take a break, throw a tennis ball, take a breath, celebrate yourself,
(13:21):
know yourself. It's done. Easy. I just learned the Scala's course. It's fine.
That's it. I mean, there's loads of techniques you could learn. And obviously there are ways
that we can train the voice, we can train the body language, we can train the facial
expressions. Of course, the most important thing is that we keep you being you and not
turning you into something that you're not because that's never going to work.
(13:43):
No. Do you celebrate individuals and train them through your video vamp challenge? Unstarted
in October, it's been kicking ass.
Yeah. So we do a quarterly challenge every quarter. So we did video vamp, which started
as a joke and then became a real thing. Okay. So this was, uh-oh, shit. Now we have something,
(14:03):
which was quite funny. So we did four weeks of group cohort style training. And then we
had an in-person event in London, which was a great success. Because what I did, I told
everybody to make a video because that was what it was all about. These were all people
that struggled with video creation. And then we put all the videos on the big screen, which
is pretty cool. So we all had popcorn and a drink. And then we showed their videos on
(14:26):
the big screen, which is really, really cool. And now we're doing one again in February.
That is not about videos. That is about master your message. So it's all about how do you
get clear on your messaging? How do you write keynotes? How do you write good presentations?
And basically everything to do with storytelling. So that's really good fun as well.
(14:46):
Is there a particular cost for this sort of thing? Is it by donations you just give to
the Pascuala's charity of dogs? Or is it a freebie thing, just kind of like a thing you
do because you're a nice person?
So I'm quite a nice person, but I also need to eat. So it is these things run. So we have
always have an early bird price and then a super early bird and early bird and then the
(15:10):
normal tick price. But right now we're still in the super early bird phase and that's only
50 pounds. So 50 pounds is not a ridiculous amount to have four weeks of fun. You get
access to the whole group. So we have like a WhatsApp community so they can all chat
to each other, make great new friends and learn a little bit together.
So 50 pounds, bring your own popcorn. No problem.
(15:30):
Bring your own popcorn. Well, even the popcorn is provided. If you're coming to the live
event, we will have all the drinks, food, it's all there.
That's lovely. That's pretty reasonable. Hopefully you get more than veggies to eat after that.
That's great.
We work up so quick before these things. It's really good fun.
That's really cool.
Yeah.
(15:51):
I think I have a soft spot for hardworking entrepreneurs like yourself. You have present
tales. I have my journey. I'm on growing my humble business as a podcast mentor, manager,
audio production pro. But what does present tales really mean to you?
Oh gosh. Well, to me, it means a lot more than just a business. For me, it is finding
(16:14):
myself because when I started present tales in September 2022, yes, wow, I can't believe
it. It feels like years ago, but I was in a very bad place. I had done, I've worked
in multiple industries and gone like, this is shit. I had my passion. That passion was
obviously taken away. The musical theater life is taken away from me. What am I going
(16:36):
to do now? And I was at the time working in a company where I just didn't feel like it
was my place and I quit from one day to the next. I just quit. And then I went into Google,
how do you start a business?
Literally.
Yeah, literally like that. That's literally how it happened. How do you start a business?
And well, I got some great people that I knew who had started businesses, who I asked for
(16:58):
help, didn't listen to any of them because I'm so stubborn and because all of them gave
me different tips. And I was like, well, clearly it doesn't matter how you do it. You need
to find a way that works for you. And I knew that I wanted to do public speaking coaching
because my heart's always been on stage. I love telling stories. And in my years in corporate,
(17:19):
the four to five years that I worked in corporate, I saw people present and I was like, this
is terrible. And I can use my knowledge of being on stage to help people do this in a
way more exciting manner whilst making them feel great about themselves. So that's when
Present Tales was born. For me, it saved me. It really saved me for a life of unfulfilled
(17:42):
work. It saved me in every single way. And I'm now I couldn't be happier. Like it's hard.
Don't get me wrong. I want to give up like twice a day. But it's also giving me so much.
It's giving me new friends. It's giving me it's really challenging me to constantly reinvent
myself, right? I had no idea what LinkedIn was about 16 months ago or 17 months ago.
(18:08):
And I had to figure that out. I've never done any marketing. I've never done any. How are
you clever with words, you know, SEO, all of these things, I've never thought about
it. So this year has really taught me to think deeper and think smarter, work harder, work
smarter. So there's it's been it's been an incredible journey. So to me, it's absolutely
(18:28):
everything.
You broke the rules of society fearing the fear itself. But you say that we should embrace
our fears like hit them head on, smack them in the face and just be a part of the journey.
Why is that?
Yeah, why not? What's the worst thing that could happen?
So when people are afraid of themselves, it's really that easy just to say forget it. It's
(18:49):
just head on, go for it, see the light and see what happens.
I think it's asking yourself different questions, right? And I see this with my clients, for
example, all the time, like, why would I do that? And I'm like, why wouldn't you ask the
other question is you're asking questions out of fear. And I think being afraid of fear
(19:10):
or like not doing something because of fear is is the most stupid thing you could possibly
do. Like that's maybe really harsh, but not doing it because you're afraid. That's a terrible
reason. Terrible reason. Not doing it because you think, oh, well, what if it doesn't work
out? What is it? What if it does? What if it does work out? Different question.
(19:33):
Do you find that's a lot of your material that starts off with your coaching? People
are stuck in their head, they're fearful and they say, please help me be the fairy godmother
of the Netherlands that you dream to be. Yeah, no, that's that's what it is. I have to give
people a slap on the wrist sometimes. My client's gonna test to this that I sometimes go listen,
(19:54):
we're gonna ask you different questions now. So it's also teaching them to change the mindset
to, you know, say goodbye to the negative self-talk. We all have that. What about the
positive self-talk? Nobody talks about that. Nobody teaches us how to do that because we
live in a world where we can always do better. We can always earn more. We can always give
more. Okay, what about enough is enough? Okay, just go and do your thing and ask yourself
(20:18):
the opposite question. So next time you have a negative thought, what is the opposite of
that question? Try to answer that because I can bet you that that answer is way more
exciting. Focus on that because fear and excitement sit in the same part of the brain. You can't
feel both at the same time. So it's interesting. So it's it's a ever fighting battle. It is
(20:40):
between fear and excitement. You choose which one wins. That's your choice. So you go to
Toastmasters to get the polite slow claps. And then you go to yourself at Present Tales
and then get slapped on the wrist. It's magic. That's how it works. Yeah. Yeah, they go away
feeling great. Figured life out. That's nice. Well, I haven't figured life out. If I had
(21:03):
that, then you know, I would probably be sitting on a big boat somewhere. You've got to figure
it out for the balance though. I mean, you've separated yourself from the hustle culture
and you're dedicating a quarter of your life to your husband who seems lovely. He's in
a dapper suit with your two dogs on socials. And that's part of life. But were you did
you always have the luxury of being able to spend that much time at home and or building
(21:27):
away from building your business? No. So when so if you look at the musical theater part,
I just never home. Then I looked at my corporate career. I was home, but I wasn't home. I wasn't
present because I was I it stressed me out so much. Then I started this business and
all I thought about for the first six months was my business, right? I was wasn't talking
(21:48):
about anything else. I was obsessed. And I realized very quickly that that was going
to kill me if I continue to do that, because what I did, I made the very common mistake
of linking my business to me as a person. And that's a big problem. Because if my business
was doing great, I was doing great. My business was doing bad. I was doing bad. You can't
have that. Okay. So I realized that I needed to keep control of my life. I didn't want
(22:14):
to become an employee within my own business. I'm the business owner. And I need to be founder.
Yeah, I'm the founder. So yeah, I started dedicating some time to me. And in the beginning,
that felt selfish, like all the normal feelings like guilt and all these things, you know,
started flooding in and I still get that sometimes, right in the evening after dinner, I have
(22:35):
a rule that I put my phone away. And I, I don't look at it anymore. And I'm like, what
if a client messages me? What if a deal comes in? Or what if I what it shouldn't I be working
right now? Shouldn't I be working on the next cool thing? And I'm like, well, if I'm not
doing okay, if I'm not taking this, this is mental break for myself, then my business
is never going to do great. There's a saying, right, if you press stop on people, they start.
(22:58):
And that is true. I need that time to relax. I need my two hours every day to go for a
hike and you know, to be with my family and for myself.
Those boundaries are huge.
Boundaries.
Hey.
So learning about emotional intelligence, thanks to my partner. And of course, you know,
going through a chapter in my life with a divorce many years ago, but that started the
(23:21):
journey to self happiness. And then I'm learning all these things about, you know, circle of
influence. And I have three emotions that I can deal with. I'm super proud of myself
instead of just one, you know, and that's kind of the joke where you just search and
for things that matter and hopefully public speaking matters to many people and not just
you.
Yeah, it seems to do. And a lot of people get very excited by it. And it's something
(23:42):
we do constantly every day. When I come home tonight, I tell my partner about my day. And
I say, that's public speaking. We all do it all the time.
Right.
And you can gauge your success if the eye rolls come out or the tune out to the cell
phone or petting the dog. Like I'm just loving the dog.
Yeah, that's the thing.
I'm curious, do you still see musical theater as something enjoyable to participate in as
(24:06):
a guest, as a viewer, or do you scrutinize everything and just ruined it for you?
I've never liked musical theater.
Okay.
And this is it. So I don't like musical theater necessarily, because I don't think it's quite
boring and a bit much. But I like doing it, which is funny thing, isn't it? I like doing
(24:27):
it. I like being on the stage and being in control of the story and being able to share
in that story. But now I have watched shows ever since. But it's not like you will be
doing me a favor to go, Oh, should I go watch Linda Silver? And like, no, I don't. Yeah.
Oh, don't get me started. No, I am not a huge musical theater fan. And when I do go, I see
(24:49):
everything that goes wrong. So I look at different things. So for me, it's always work. That
feels like work now. That doesn't feel like a day off. It feels like work still. So yeah.
Maybe Shakespeare would be a better transition.
No, I have traumatic. It was a traumatic experience doing Shakespeare. I'm never doing that again.
(25:10):
And you hear the internal moose of the cows when you're watching Shakespeare. That's a
thing.
Yeah. I don't understand why people can watch that and not fall asleep.
Those sound effects, I'm just saying. Inside perhaps, or a novelty inside your life, a
personal thing of the farm and the nightmares that you have from the cow-taking experiences.
(25:31):
Another podcast perhaps, to save you the stress.
Shakespeare.
Most importantly, people love to know how to make money, right? And grow and monetize
their podcast or public speaking, or even getting into public speaking experiences.
Get that seven figures. But have you had the luxury of understanding, I guess, how you've
(25:55):
created those inbound leads? Like multiple dozens a day that come in to your perfect
client. It just happened by magic because you're nice, right?
So no, unfortunately, there's a lot of thought that needs to go into that. Have I figured
it out? No, absolutely not. Do I have a process? A little bit. But what I think has really
(26:17):
worked is trial and error, trying things out. So I will try for three months, I will try
this tone of voice, or I will try this type of messaging. So if you look at my LinkedIn
profile, for example, in the beginning, it was long, long texts with lots of information.
Nobody cared. Then I moved into really short text, which actually missed a lot of context,
(26:38):
and loads of emojis, because I thought that was cool. And that's what the cool kids did.
Again, wrong, didn't work. Then I started working. I've worked with a guy called Nick
Bruckerman. He is an amazing content designer. And he helped me with my content strategy.
So he told me about the tofu mofu bofu stuff, which is like the top of funnel posts, the
(26:59):
middle of funnel posts, and the bottom of the posts. And that helped me to diversify
the way I talk about my business. So I'm now sharing more about me because Prec and Tales
is me. Okay, so Prec and Tales is Pascala. So I needed to build up my brand, tell my
story, share my share, you know, things about my life. Then I need to talk about client
(27:20):
success. That really helps. So talking about client success, showing client proof, you
know, people that have done video testimonials, written testimonials, getting it out there,
getting results, and then showing my authority by sharing how I do this or how I teach people
to do that. So that's it. But do I have I got to figure it out? No, I don't think anybody
(27:42):
ever will because the world of money changes constantly, right. So I think, be you, as
long as you're staying yourself, you will attract the right people, but you might need
a little bit of help to just get the messaging quite right. Let's start a podcast.
Tis I, Lord Podcast. Are you yearning to equip yourself with the confidence to record?
(00:07):
Elijah, the skilled podcast professional, is preparing himself for a tale of tools and
skill that only a mighty podcaster may employ in one's podcast journey.
Elijah, I do believe that we shall teach our weary wanderer the confidence that they strive
to achieve. Shall we start a podcast?
We shall. It's settled.
(00:29):
Let's start a podcast.
Perfect. We look professional, we sound professional, we're all set. Pascala is here with me at
Present Tales. We're going to learn about how to become more irresistible than chocolate
cake, maybe perfecting our public speaking skills. Does that sound familiar? I don't
know where I got that, goodness.
I don't know where you might have got that.
(00:50):
The magic of having so much social content out there, you're an incredible storyteller
and you're just a whole lot of fun to all these energetic costumes that I don't know,
you have more costumes than drag queens do for the record. It's fantastic.
You have no idea.
It's nice. A lot of people don't know about the adversity, how you'd stop at nothing.
You're paralyzed, you lost your career because of that and you had to start all over again
(01:14):
to figure out why. I don't even know if your two pups were involved at that point. How
did this all come to be? Goodness. That's a short period of time. Goodness.
Yeah, it all just happened very fast, to be honest. How did all of this come to be? I
grew up in the Netherlands. That's the accent that people are hearing if they're thinking,
(01:34):
what is that accent? I grew up in the Netherlands, small town girl, countryside type stuff, moved
to the next city to become an actress. It's literally like that. My mother played Tinkerbell
in the musical Peter Pan and I fell in love with the theatre from there. I've always been
obsessed with human interaction and the way that we can portray a character. Did drama
(01:56):
school in the Netherlands, moved to the UK to do my masters and all along I've always
done shows. I've been on stage because I was four years old, which believe it or not, is
possible. Did that for a long time, ended up on the West End doing all kinds of cool
stuff and then had a stroke five years ago. I became paralyzed on the left-hand side.
(02:20):
The right side of my brain didn't get enough blood, effectively so it's an ischemic stroke
where there's not enough blood and oxygen within the brain, which means basically it
just shuts off. Luckily, it opened up again. I survived. I am relatively okay now. I don't
have a lot of paralyzation anymore. If I get really tired, for example, or I need to do
(02:43):
some really fine motor skills with my left hand, it's not going to go great. Other than
that, I am absolutely fine. But it did mean that my career in musical theater is over
and I knew that the moment it happened. That meant I needed to figure out something else.
You can feel sorry for yourself or you can just give yourself a kick up the box and do
(03:05):
something.
It's nice. It is positive though. You can rid of the Peter Pan tights because I don't
think they're that comfortable, are they? Especially if you're four and you're dancing
around, you're all cute, but when you get older, a little different.
Not great. I mean, people ask me, do you miss musical theater? And I go, no, because it's
such hard work. You never have a day off and you are hungry all of the time and forced
(03:29):
into uncomfortable costumes. So no, I don't miss it.
Fair. That part is a blessing, right? You get to try it, you get to experience it, you
can have a great time and now you don't have to wear those incredibly fascinating costumes,
if I may say.
Fascinating indeed, but definitely not comfortable and don't recommend wearing them ever.
(03:52):
People don't always understand how the power of public speaking can intertwine with podcasting.
But for me, I was worried about going through an episode of my podcast and my mind suddenly
goes blank because as you can probably see, I have big ket energy, ADHD, I see squirrels
and shiny things and I'm out. And then the panics come, the odds happen, you start to
(04:13):
struggle and you don't have a co-host, I don't, to keep on track. What's the answer? Do I
give up? Do I cry in the corner? Like, how do I recover from this?
It's very simple. You just step back, you stop talking for a second to say, hold on,
I'm going to think about what I want to say next. You just stop. Either check your nose
or go back within your brain and then you start again. I think there is such a pressure
(04:37):
on speakers, whether that is on a podcast, whether that is on stage, on a panel, to be
this perfect thing as if I'm looking into the camera right now with like an auto-queue
running by. It's not like that. You are human and you can celebrate in that humanity. So,
if you need to take a step back because you need to think real quick, do it. It's okay.
(04:58):
It's totally fine.
That's it. Just take a minute, second, however long you have.
Yeah.
Yeah. Just take however long you need in order to be, you know, effective in your communication.
Wow. I've done a long day of speaking. But what you want to do is just give yourself
that time. Be nicer to yourself. Don't think you need to be this perfect person that always
(05:19):
speaks everything perfectly. No, you can be human. You can just say, give me a second.
I'm going to check my notes. And the great thing with podcasts is you can edit it out.
Yay.
What happens if you're a DIY or you're a hobbyist that is a one person show that doesn't
always have this time for editing and you say a lot of ums and ahs and you get distracted?
Are there any tips to kind of get rid of some of that speaking habits so that you don't
(05:44):
have to edit as much?
So of course, you can always practice at becoming a better communicator. When it comes to your
ums and ahs and those non words, like the word like, really, very, those are words that
people use a lot that are not always very functional or the comment like the common,
well, nobody wants to hear that. So what you can do, you can grab a tennis ball and as
(06:10):
you know, you just start talking. So you start talking about your day or your favorite holiday
or your favorite child of memory. And every time you catch yourself saying a filler word,
you throw the ball against a wall and you catch it and you continue. Because what that
does, it turns the filler words into something physical, because it happens before we even
know that it's happened, right? It happens really quickly. It happens within the brain.
(06:32):
And when things happen within the brain, it's very hard to get them into control because
they're intangible. So we turn it into something tangible. So your filler words become tennis
ball. When you say your filler words, throw it against the wall, catch it and continue
because it shows you how and when those filler words come up, which means we can then start
working on them.
Do I get treats if I'm if I do good at this? Is that part of the part of the
(06:56):
No, unfortunately not. My golden retriever gets all of them, including the crackers that
she begs for and a little piece of ham. But what are you going to do? Right? Stay with
my dogs. They would eat my finger if I met them. Really? She just kind of gnaws on it.
Like just gently try to slobbers all over it as a thing that she does to put herself
to sleep. Like really? There's got to be a better way. Yeah. But I'll stick to tennis
(07:21):
ball. That'd be good.
Do you think that I speak too fast? Some people think that I should speak slower. Is that
a thing?
Oh, if another person tells me just speak slower, I am going to slap them. You know
what? The whole speaking slower is not the problem. It is adjusting your timing as you
(07:42):
see fit. So it's like with a song, right? If you listen to a song, it starts a bit slower,
then it speeds up and then it goes through different rhythms. It's the same with when
we speak. It's okay to speak fast, but just sometimes make sure you also speak a little
bit slower. So it's just adjusting the timing, but you don't need to speak slower in general
(08:03):
or constantly in order to be well received. If you speak quickly, that is fine. Just make
sure that you enunciate correctly and that you stress the right words so that people
know when to pay attention.
That sounds really easy.
It is.
It is. Since you've been doing this at four, it comes natural to you. So it's a piece of
(08:24):
cake for others who struggle and overthink this stuff. Throwing a tennis ball and just
taking a break seems like second nature.
I know. The thing is, I think we put so much pressure on ourselves to be perfect all of
the freaking time. And it's like, you don't need to be perfect. You need to be clear.
I don't care about perfection. Nobody cares about perfection. Actually, if you look at
(08:49):
loads of data on presentations, when people are perfect, we don't trust you. By all means,
make the mistakes because it makes us trust you more.
Is that how you coach your CEOs that get seven figure TEDx talk gigs? People at that level
seem to have so much scrutiny and in a sense of perfection. They feel so visible and seen,
(09:13):
right?
Kind of how you think about it.
Yeah. I was literally with one of my clients at lunch today and we were talking about big
seven figure keynotes exactly like this. He's like, wow, I would do that. And TED talks
and all of that stuff. And I was like, well, because he did Toastmasters and I love Toastmasters.
Let's make that really clear. It's a really great place to start your public speaking
(09:36):
career because it just gets you those flying hours. It gets you exposed to public speaking.
It gets you into a community and it's really nice. But what it also does is it sort of
makes sure to this perfect person, like a puppet almost, right? You're like, and now
I'm going to present. So you become a presenter. And that is a very dangerous thing because
a presenter is not a thing. You still just need to be you as a human. So instead of focusing
(10:02):
all the perfection, saying all the right things, all the right words in all the perfect ways
with the perfect voice, let's focus on who you are and turn that into something interesting.
If you are somebody who talks with their hands a lot, talk with your hands by all means.
But what we need to do is make it functional. So instead of you just flapping your arms
about like some crazy duck, we need to find out how you do that, why you do that and how
(10:26):
we can make it more functional for you.
Even though my wife hates this, the eyebrows, how would I incorporate that into my keynote
speaker events? Would that distract people or could I play off my sense of big kid energy
somehow?
I love big kid energy. So with the eyebrows, it's quite a funny thing when you do that.
And if you would constantly do this as you speak, it might become a little bit annoying.
(10:47):
Okay, if I do this all the time.
You practice well done.
If you use it as a tool. So for example, if I say something cheeky and I then go like
that, then it's absolutely fine. So again, it's becoming aware of what you're doing because
a lot of people are just not aware of the things that they do automatically.
(11:08):
Right.
Like the flapping of the arms. So making that awareness happen, that will turn it into something
functional because it's who you are and it's part of who you are. So why would we change
that? Let's just make it more functional.
And those who have really brought introvertedness and introverts to the spotlight, do you want
(11:30):
to celebrate them even more because they're great listeners and they're afraid of going
out and they have this introspectiveness?
Yeah, there's this big myth that introverts are terrible at public speaking, that extroverts
are automatically great. That's bollocks. Take that really clear, okay? That's absolute
bollocks because extroverts are more comfortable in the spotlight. It doesn't mean they're
(11:54):
better at it because they're often the people that just talk and talk and talk without a
real purpose. Okay.
Introverts are people that are way more introspective. They think about things much more deeply. It
takes them more time to be ready to get onto the stage. But when they are ready, they're
often really, really good presenters. The difference is that when an extrovert is done
(12:14):
talking, they'll be coming into the networking pool and be like, woohoo, yes, hello, what's
an A grade, what's an A grade, what's an A grade? The introverts will be like, I now
need some time for myself because it drains the advisory. So depending on if you are an
extrovert, an introvert or an ambivert, doesn't matter. That doesn't decide if you're a good
or a bad speaker. It's just knowing what you need in order to prepare, in order to how
(12:37):
you want to be during your speech and how you're going to treat yourself afterwards.
So if I go to the major European or American podcast convention, I probably don't want
to sign up for eight different podcast speaking events in a row because then even if I was
ambivert, I'd want to have a nap halfway through. Just know yourself.
(12:59):
Yeah. Just know yourself. Just know what you need.
It's that easy.
It is that easy. It's just celebrating humanity instead of celebrating perfection.
Respectfully, I'm just waiting for you to pinch me because it seems too good to be true.
Just think about it. Just take a break, throw a tennis ball, take a breath, celebrate yourself,
(13:21):
know yourself. It's done. Easy. I just learned the Scala's course. It's fine.
That's it. I mean, there's loads of techniques you could learn. And obviously there are ways
that we can train the voice, we can train the body language, we can train the facial
expressions. Of course, the most important thing is that we keep you being you and not
turning you into something that you're not because that's never going to work.
(13:43):
No. Do you celebrate individuals and train them through your video vamp challenge? Unstarted
in October, it's been kicking ass.
Yeah. So we do a quarterly challenge every quarter. So we did video vamp, which started
as a joke and then became a real thing. Okay. So this was, uh-oh, shit. Now we have something,
(14:03):
which was quite funny. So we did four weeks of group cohort style training. And then we
had an in-person event in London, which was a great success. Because what I did, I told
everybody to make a video because that was what it was all about. These were all people
that struggled with video creation. And then we put all the videos on the big screen, which
is pretty cool. So we all had popcorn and a drink. And then we showed their videos on
(14:26):
the big screen, which is really, really cool. And now we're doing one again in February.
That is not about videos. That is about master your message. So it's all about how do you
get clear on your messaging? How do you write keynotes? How do you write good presentations?
And basically everything to do with storytelling. So that's really good fun as well.
(14:46):
Is there a particular cost for this sort of thing? Is it by donations you just give to
the Pascuala's charity of dogs? Or is it a freebie thing, just kind of like a thing you
do because you're a nice person?
So I'm quite a nice person, but I also need to eat. So it is these things run. So we have
always have an early bird price and then a super early bird and early bird and then the
(15:10):
normal tick price. But right now we're still in the super early bird phase and that's only
50 pounds. So 50 pounds is not a ridiculous amount to have four weeks of fun. You get
access to the whole group. So we have like a WhatsApp community so they can all chat
to each other, make great new friends and learn a little bit together.
So 50 pounds, bring your own popcorn. No problem.
(15:30):
Bring your own popcorn. Well, even the popcorn is provided. If you're coming to the live
event, we will have all the drinks, food, it's all there.
That's lovely. That's pretty reasonable. Hopefully you get more than veggies to eat after that.
That's great.
We work up so quick before these things. It's really good fun.
That's really cool.
Yeah.
(15:51):
I think I have a soft spot for hardworking entrepreneurs like yourself. You have present
tales. I have my journey. I'm on growing my humble business as a podcast mentor, manager,
audio production pro. But what does present tales really mean to you?
Oh gosh. Well, to me, it means a lot more than just a business. For me, it is finding
(16:14):
myself because when I started present tales in September 2022, yes, wow, I can't believe
it. It feels like years ago, but I was in a very bad place. I had done, I've worked
in multiple industries and gone like, this is shit. I had my passion. That passion was
obviously taken away. The musical theater life is taken away from me. What am I going
(16:36):
to do now? And I was at the time working in a company where I just didn't feel like it
was my place and I quit from one day to the next. I just quit. And then I went into Google,
how do you start a business?
Literally.
Yeah, literally like that. That's literally how it happened. How do you start a business?
And well, I got some great people that I knew who had started businesses, who I asked for
(16:58):
help, didn't listen to any of them because I'm so stubborn and because all of them gave
me different tips. And I was like, well, clearly it doesn't matter how you do it. You need
to find a way that works for you. And I knew that I wanted to do public speaking coaching
because my heart's always been on stage. I love telling stories. And in my years in corporate,
(17:19):
the four to five years that I worked in corporate, I saw people present and I was like, this
is terrible. And I can use my knowledge of being on stage to help people do this in a
way more exciting manner whilst making them feel great about themselves. So that's when
Present Tales was born. For me, it saved me. It really saved me for a life of unfulfilled
(17:42):
work. It saved me in every single way. And I'm now I couldn't be happier. Like it's hard.
Don't get me wrong. I want to give up like twice a day. But it's also giving me so much.
It's giving me new friends. It's giving me it's really challenging me to constantly reinvent
myself, right? I had no idea what LinkedIn was about 16 months ago or 17 months ago.
(18:08):
And I had to figure that out. I've never done any marketing. I've never done any. How are
you clever with words, you know, SEO, all of these things, I've never thought about
it. So this year has really taught me to think deeper and think smarter, work harder, work
smarter. So there's it's been it's been an incredible journey. So to me, it's absolutely
(18:28):
everything.
You broke the rules of society fearing the fear itself. But you say that we should embrace
our fears like hit them head on, smack them in the face and just be a part of the journey.
Why is that?
Yeah, why not? What's the worst thing that could happen?
So when people are afraid of themselves, it's really that easy just to say forget it. It's
(18:49):
just head on, go for it, see the light and see what happens.
I think it's asking yourself different questions, right? And I see this with my clients, for
example, all the time, like, why would I do that? And I'm like, why wouldn't you ask the
other question is you're asking questions out of fear. And I think being afraid of fear
(19:10):
or like not doing something because of fear is is the most stupid thing you could possibly
do. Like that's maybe really harsh, but not doing it because you're afraid. That's a terrible
reason. Terrible reason. Not doing it because you think, oh, well, what if it doesn't work
out? What is it? What if it does? What if it does work out? Different question.
(19:33):
Do you find that's a lot of your material that starts off with your coaching? People
are stuck in their head, they're fearful and they say, please help me be the fairy godmother
of the Netherlands that you dream to be. Yeah, no, that's that's what it is. I have to give
people a slap on the wrist sometimes. My client's gonna test to this that I sometimes go listen,
(19:54):
we're gonna ask you different questions now. So it's also teaching them to change the mindset
to, you know, say goodbye to the negative self-talk. We all have that. What about the
positive self-talk? Nobody talks about that. Nobody teaches us how to do that because we
live in a world where we can always do better. We can always earn more. We can always give
more. Okay, what about enough is enough? Okay, just go and do your thing and ask yourself
(20:18):
the opposite question. So next time you have a negative thought, what is the opposite of
that question? Try to answer that because I can bet you that that answer is way more
exciting. Focus on that because fear and excitement sit in the same part of the brain. You can't
feel both at the same time. So it's interesting. So it's it's a ever fighting battle. It is
(20:40):
between fear and excitement. You choose which one wins. That's your choice. So you go to
Toastmasters to get the polite slow claps. And then you go to yourself at Present Tales
and then get slapped on the wrist. It's magic. That's how it works. Yeah. Yeah, they go away
feeling great. Figured life out. That's nice. Well, I haven't figured life out. If I had
(21:03):
that, then you know, I would probably be sitting on a big boat somewhere. You've got to figure
it out for the balance though. I mean, you've separated yourself from the hustle culture
and you're dedicating a quarter of your life to your husband who seems lovely. He's in
a dapper suit with your two dogs on socials. And that's part of life. But were you did
you always have the luxury of being able to spend that much time at home and or building
(21:27):
away from building your business? No. So when so if you look at the musical theater part,
I just never home. Then I looked at my corporate career. I was home, but I wasn't home. I wasn't
present because I was I it stressed me out so much. Then I started this business and
all I thought about for the first six months was my business, right? I was wasn't talking
(21:48):
about anything else. I was obsessed. And I realized very quickly that that was going
to kill me if I continue to do that, because what I did, I made the very common mistake
of linking my business to me as a person. And that's a big problem. Because if my business
was doing great, I was doing great. My business was doing bad. I was doing bad. You can't
have that. Okay. So I realized that I needed to keep control of my life. I didn't want
(22:14):
to become an employee within my own business. I'm the business owner. And I need to be founder.
Yeah, I'm the founder. So yeah, I started dedicating some time to me. And in the beginning,
that felt selfish, like all the normal feelings like guilt and all these things, you know,
started flooding in and I still get that sometimes, right in the evening after dinner, I have
(22:35):
a rule that I put my phone away. And I, I don't look at it anymore. And I'm like, what
if a client messages me? What if a deal comes in? Or what if I what it shouldn't I be working
right now? Shouldn't I be working on the next cool thing? And I'm like, well, if I'm not
doing okay, if I'm not taking this, this is mental break for myself, then my business
is never going to do great. There's a saying, right, if you press stop on people, they start.
(22:58):
And that is true. I need that time to relax. I need my two hours every day to go for a
hike and you know, to be with my family and for myself.
Those boundaries are huge.
Boundaries.
Hey.
So learning about emotional intelligence, thanks to my partner. And of course, you know,
going through a chapter in my life with a divorce many years ago, but that started the
(23:21):
journey to self happiness. And then I'm learning all these things about, you know, circle of
influence. And I have three emotions that I can deal with. I'm super proud of myself
instead of just one, you know, and that's kind of the joke where you just search and
for things that matter and hopefully public speaking matters to many people and not just
you.
Yeah, it seems to do. And a lot of people get very excited by it. And it's something
(23:42):
we do constantly every day. When I come home tonight, I tell my partner about my day. And
I say, that's public speaking. We all do it all the time.
Right.
And you can gauge your success if the eye rolls come out or the tune out to the cell
phone or petting the dog. Like I'm just loving the dog.
Yeah, that's the thing.
I'm curious, do you still see musical theater as something enjoyable to participate in as
(24:06):
a guest, as a viewer, or do you scrutinize everything and just ruined it for you?
I've never liked musical theater.
Okay.
And this is it. So I don't like musical theater necessarily, because I don't think it's quite
boring and a bit much. But I like doing it, which is funny thing, isn't it? I like doing
(24:27):
it. I like being on the stage and being in control of the story and being able to share
in that story. But now I have watched shows ever since. But it's not like you will be
doing me a favor to go, Oh, should I go watch Linda Silver? And like, no, I don't. Yeah.
Oh, don't get me started. No, I am not a huge musical theater fan. And when I do go, I see
(24:49):
everything that goes wrong. So I look at different things. So for me, it's always work. That
feels like work now. That doesn't feel like a day off. It feels like work still. So yeah.
Maybe Shakespeare would be a better transition.
No, I have traumatic. It was a traumatic experience doing Shakespeare. I'm never doing that again.
(25:10):
And you hear the internal moose of the cows when you're watching Shakespeare. That's a
thing.
Yeah. I don't understand why people can watch that and not fall asleep.
Those sound effects, I'm just saying. Inside perhaps, or a novelty inside your life, a
personal thing of the farm and the nightmares that you have from the cow-taking experiences.
(25:31):
Another podcast perhaps, to save you the stress.
Shakespeare.
Most importantly, people love to know how to make money, right? And grow and monetize
their podcast or public speaking, or even getting into public speaking experiences.
Get that seven figures. But have you had the luxury of understanding, I guess, how you've
(25:55):
created those inbound leads? Like multiple dozens a day that come in to your perfect
client. It just happened by magic because you're nice, right?
So no, unfortunately, there's a lot of thought that needs to go into that. Have I figured
it out? No, absolutely not. Do I have a process? A little bit. But what I think has really
(26:17):
worked is trial and error, trying things out. So I will try for three months, I will try
this tone of voice, or I will try this type of messaging. So if you look at my LinkedIn
profile, for example, in the beginning, it was long, long texts with lots of information.
Nobody cared. Then I moved into really short text, which actually missed a lot of context,
(26:38):
and loads of emojis, because I thought that was cool. And that's what the cool kids did.
Again, wrong, didn't work. Then I started working. I've worked with a guy called Nick
Bruckerman. He is an amazing content designer. And he helped me with my content strategy.
So he told me about the tofu mofu bofu stuff, which is like the top of funnel posts, the
(26:59):
middle of funnel posts, and the bottom of the posts. And that helped me to diversify
the way I talk about my business. So I'm now sharing more about me because Prec and Tales
is me. Okay, so Prec and Tales is Pascala. So I needed to build up my brand, tell my
story, share my share, you know, things about my life. Then I need to talk about client
(27:20):
success. That really helps. So talking about client success, showing client proof, you
know, people that have done video testimonials, written testimonials, getting it out there,
getting results, and then showing my authority by sharing how I do this or how I teach people
to do that. So that's it. But do I have I got to figure it out? No, I don't think anybody
(27:42):
ever will because the world of money changes constantly, right. So I think, be you, as
long as you're staying yourself, you will attract the right people, but you might need
a little bit of help to just get the messaging quite right. Let's start a podcast.
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