December 26, 2024 • 35 mins
How do personal stories and a passion for music bridge the gap between generations and cultures? We welcome Zion Givens, co-founder of Up To It, who shares his insights on Black excellence and the transformative power of music. As we take a closer look at the Democratic National Convention and Michelle Obama's impactful speech, Zion reflects on how the music of J. Cole and iconic R&B albums have influenced his life and identity. Our conversation explores how cultural elements like music can shape personal and community connections, with Zion reminiscing about the artists who have left a mark on him.
Zion's journey into behavioral and mental health is deeply personal, inspired by his father's work in the nonprofit sector. A defining moment came during a keynote presentation in Arizona, where his vulnerability opened up a powerful dialogue with young people. This episode emphasizes the critical need for encouraging vulnerability and seeking help, especially among young boys and men facing mental health challenges. Zion's story highlights the role of personal storytelling in mental health advocacy, showing that sharing our struggles can resonate with others and foster a supportive community.
We also tackle the challenge of bridging the generational gap in mental health support, particularly through workplace initiatives like Employee Assistance Programs. By collaborating with organizations such as Healthy Workplaces Arizona, we can better support the youth and the adults who care for them. Drawing parallels between life's transformative moments and musical bridges, Zion shares how J. Cole's "Windowpane" offers comfort and motivation. Together, we reflect on the cultural challenges of mental health awareness in Black and Mexican communities and the importance of empowering youth through storytelling and meaningful work.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to let's Talk About it, the podcast where we
shine a light on the changeagents and everyday heroes who
shape our communities.
Here we dive deep into thelived experiences of our guests,
exploring the milestone momentsthat have either propelled them
forward or changed their paths.
We anchor every conversation intwo foundational pillars of the
(00:28):
Black community books and music.
Through this unique lens, wecapture, entertain and inform,
weaving a rich tapestry ofstories and insights that
resonate, inspire and sparkmeaningful dialogue.
Join our host, tj Lowry andShatima Grisham as they engage
with thought leaders andcommunity change agents to
(00:51):
uncover the rich tapestry ofexperiences that shape our lives
.
Get ready for insightfuldiscussions, unfiltered
perspectives and the celebrationof Black excellence.
Let's talk about it.
Of Black Excellence let's talkabout it.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Hey everyone, Welcome to let's Talk About it the
podcast.
I'm your girl, TJ, here, andI'm so excited to get into
today's podcast.
Before we jump into theconversation, though, I want to
introduce you to my co-host,Shatima.
Let's talk about it, Shatima.
How you doing, girl, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Thanks, CJ, for the intro.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm pretty good.
I'm pretty good.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Absolutely.
We have a wonderful guestcoming up, so excited to get
into that.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
But before we do, I know that we are HR
professionals and it's taboo andwe've been preconditioned not
to talk politics.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Did you get a chance to?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
talk, watch the DNC.
The last few days it has been aparty right Like.
We've never seen a DNC likethis.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
No, the turnip has been great.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And I'm so excited for it yeah, what was one?
Of your favorite highlights.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You know I love Auntie Michelle so she's forever
my first lady.
So she was a mic drop for sureshe was.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Well, I think she is going to go viral.
We're going to try to figureout how to bring her back in the
White House because she wasreading people.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Absolutely.
I've made it really hard to getup and go to my black job the
next day.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I know right.
Well, who are you inviting orintroducing us to to join us on
our podcast today?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Who are you introducing us to yeah,
absolutely, so we are lucky tohave Mr Zion Givens.
Welcome to the let's Talk Aboutit podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Awesome.
Welcome back, Zion.
We're excited to get into parttwo with you.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
All right.
Well, zion is the co-founderand presenter of Up To it, which
is an organization that workswith youth, families and
organizations to help themconnect, communicate and thrive.
Prior to Up To it, he worked ata local nonprofit called Not my
Kid and he was the youthprevention team lead there.
He is also a native to Arizona,from Tucson, bear down, Bear
(02:57):
down, so it is great to have youhere again with us.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Thanks for having me again.
I'm super excited.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Good, good.
Well, Zion, I think you knowthis already, but as HR
practitioners we do likeicebreakers, just to kind of
warm up the room, get us intothe combo.
So we've got a cute littleicebreaker here called Talk To
Me.
So we're going to ask you aquestion.
Just think and tell us thefirst thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
All right.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So this time around, tell me your favorite hip hop
artist.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
J Cole.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Oh no hesitation no hesitation.
Is it the lyrics?
It's the lyrics.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
It's the humility, it's the intellectual.
I love the guy that's my man Ahundred percent.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
I was nervous for him this summer though.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
When I came for him, I was nervous for him.
This summer, though, when youknow it came for him, I was
nervous.
I was so happy that he bowedout.
He was that bad.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
He was smart, right, very smart.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Kendrick was like yo, hey, kendrick was like yo hey,
you might want to sit this oneout.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
He did he did.
Exactly Love it.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
What about your favorite hip-hop music video?
Oh, exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Love it.
What about your favoritehip-hop music video?
Oh, music video Dang.
You know what I'm going to go?
Kiss, kiss, t-pain Chris Brown.
Okay, that was a fun musicvideo, that was good, it's funny
.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
You went back because I feel like we grew up watching
videos.
So, and 106 and Park, do thekids have video shows?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
now Not anymore, not like they used to Remember the
box that was good, the 106th andPark was my thing Every Friday.
I was always tuning intoTerrence Howard 6 foot, 7 foot
was like my little Wayne wasgoing viral.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Remember, mr Bow Wow was Mr 106th and Park.
He was 100% they don't have avideo show.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
They have no more.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Just have to stream it.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, we gotta stream it YouTube.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
They are.
Tell us your favorite R&B albumof all time.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
R&B album of all time .
I love this conversation, oh myGod.
Now I can rattle off some, butI think I'm gonna go.
I might throw it back here.
That's a tough question.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
You almost have to with R&B.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
You do.
I mean, they don't make R&Blike they used to.
No more, it's all pop, right,ooh, r&b.
See, now you got me Over heretripping and stumbling.
It would be Usher for me whichone, which album?
I don't care.
See now you got me over heretripping and stumbling, and it
would be Usher for me which oneI'm telling you the older.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
You know, I might, I might go a little bit more
modern, then I might go BrunoMars Anderson.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
So that was a yeah that was such a great album it
was.
So what was that Soak Sonic?
Yeah, love that one.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
What about a pop song that you always get to dance in
?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
A pop song that always gets me dancing.
I'm going to go Doja Cat andGucci Mane.
I don't know if you heard thatsong before.
It was big.
During the pandemic, me and mysister were like, riding around,
we go get ice cream.
She'd be so embarrassed.
Which one was it?
Oh, is it like that I thinkit's like that Gucci Mane and
(06:12):
Doja Cat.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
That's one of my favorites.
She's in my gym rotation.
Get into it.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
That's a good one too .
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Get into it.
What about a favorite collab?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I think you just gave us one.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, Gucci Mane about a favorite collab I think
you just gave us one.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yeah, yeah, that counts.
You have a favorite collab?
I think my favorite collab?
Oh, this is y'all, y'allgetting some good conversation.
Look at this um my favoritecollab would probably have to be
run dmc and aerosmith you liketo be oh yeah what about the
(06:55):
most underrated artists?
Oh, most underrated artists.
Maybe that doesn't get enoughflowers.
I'm gonna go see and it's funnybecause you still have a music
podcast and we had conversationslike this all the time we threw
you off.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, you did.
I was like, yeah, I'm talkinghr today, no um underrated
artist that doesn't get enoughappreciation or flowers.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
I'm gonna go the dream yeah, the dream he too.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Some bangers, so much yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Writes a lot.
Writes so well.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So much, that's a good one Now most people don't
know about the beef between himand going back and forth about
Nivea and writing and people didnot know, so that's kind of fun
.
That was a good memory.
Yes, what.
What about Kendrick and Drake?
Who are you picking?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Ooh, I'm Arizona, so that's close to the West Coast.
I'm going K-Dot.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
It feels like he's winning, obviously, although.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I'm kind of over it.
I have to admit.
I changed the station.
Now I think, Drake even pickedKendrick.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
He's been playing him at his concert, Right?
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I think he kind of laughed through it.
He conceded right.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Right, he did, he did , yeah, so are you into PDA?
Speaker 4 (08:06):
No no.
That was a strong no Publicdisplay of affection.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
That's what you're talking about.
That was a strong no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
No, I'm just naturally hot in general, like
temperature, temperature, hot.
So to have somebody all up onme, especially my fiance, I like
, oh please, my hands get sweaty, it's just a mess.
Yeah, like, don't touch me,I'll touch you when I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I don't know I can't co-sign that one, okay, yeah
holding, grabbing your arm.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yes, yes, but even in the bed cuddling, I'm like it's
too hot to be cuddling.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I love that.
What was the first concert youremember going to?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
T-Pain.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Oh you are serious T-Pain.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
You're kind of underrated too.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I agree I could have thrown him in there too, but
that was in high school.
He came to the Pima County Fair.
It's always tied.
It's T-Pain and then Lil Yachty.
I saw Lil Yachty right afterT-Pain.
Those were two experiences Iwill never forget.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I got grounded for a long time for Lil Yachty, but
that's a whole otherconversation for another time.
What about an artist who hasthe best style?
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Best style, style, that style.
Who do I try to mimic a lot of?
I think that's.
I think, see, I'm not eventhinking artist, I'm thinking
now I'm gonna put devin bookerin there that's okay.
Yeah, I like okay, it's simpleit's neutral, it's baggy, but
yet you know he has some accentcolors in there kind of plain,
(09:41):
but still still there, you know.
Yeah, still looks nice andclean.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I feel like you picked him because he was a son.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
That has to be one of the reasons as well.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
What CDs in rotation?
Right now I'm aging myself.
What do you listen to in yourApple?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
music there we go.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
What's heavy in rotation?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I still have.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
CDs, tj, I do.
They don't give a lot of playtime, but I still have them.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Cds are cool I mean, they're coming back.
So is vinyl records.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I do have vinyls.
I do have a vinyl record player, so very cool.
What's in rotation?
Speaker 4 (10:18):
my rotation right now that I'm listening to a lot of
is Blast.
I don't know if you've everheard of Blast before B-L-X-S-T
super dope.
He's from the west coast thatI'm listening to a lot of is
Blast.
I don't know if you've everheard of Blast before B-L-X-S-T
Super dope.
He's from the West Coast,coming out in the same kind of
incubator that Kendrick came outof, and all those West Coast
artists so very R&B-ish, veryhip-hop-ish as well Love him.
(10:38):
We're going to go see him inconcert in November.
So that's exciting, that's cute.
And what's your favorite genre?
So my favorite genre of musicman is, like I always say,
hip-hop, because hip-hop is whatmade me, what raised me, so I'm
gonna stick with that.
That's definitely where I grewup on okay.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, tell us when you first fell in love with
hip-hop there's two memoriesthat I have that are quite
prominent.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
The first one I'll keep it short and brief is, uh,
I remember my dad playing getrich or die, trying by 50 cent
in the car and I knew that fromthat moment I'd hopped out in
preschool and I remembered that,like many men playing behind me
, I'm like nobody's like comingafter me, like I don't know why.
I'm like listening to this song, like I got hits on me or
whatever, but this was one ofthe artists that really was
(11:19):
prominent in my life.
But then, uh, as I grew up, Iremember the hip-hop blogs
talking about this new artistand they were hyping him up and
he had like a awesome teddy bearin the in his album.
I was like, okay, this seemskind of interesting, so I played
it, that's what I fell in love.
And the artist was a kanye westcollege dropout, college
dropout.
Yeah, the blogs were going crazyabout him and I was like this
(11:41):
is I get it now?
I get it, it.
That was my introduction to hiphop.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Production wise, that was a good album the skits.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Cedric the Entertainer on there.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Oh man, I'm trying not to be offended that 50
Cent's album was when you're inpreschool, because Age enough,
yes, but I agree those are somegood ones.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So speak to your music.
How you got into hip-hop?
How did you get into the careeryou're in?
Yeah, in the same termsrelatively definitely.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Uh.
So my dad's been in the theI'll say, non-profit public
speaking world for about 20 plusyears and I never knew what he
did for a living.
Growing up my parents were.
I mean, I'd be like, yeah, hegoes and talks to people and he
loves it, he talks to youth andhe always has snacks in his
office.
That's all I remember and Inever knew what he actually did.
And when he came to my schooland he did a leadership
(12:35):
presentation for my pep assembly, for our school, and I remember
a student behind me, a peer,and he was like, damn, I wish
that was my dad up there, and Iremember that interaction that
was really brief and reallysimple, but I overheard it and I
was like I want to have thatsame impact and same feeling.
Maybe not as a dad, you know,for the young people I don't
want to be a dad.
I was like maybe the cool bigbrother, maybe the big, the cool
(12:56):
uncle right now, in this moment.
And that's what really got meinto, got me curious on what is
prevention, what is behavioralhealth, what is mental health,
what can we do more?
And that's what kind of got meinto, into the field that I'm in
now.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Okay, Very good, I love that.
So when did the beat drop inyour career?
This would be after those first16 bars of you realizing, like
dang, my dad is cool and youknow.
Now this is that moment whereyou really saw yourself in this
career and has taken off.
When did the beat drop?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I think the beat dropped for me when I got
invited to a keynotepresentation for a nonprofit out
here in Arizona called BringChange to Mind and when I got
that invitation to come out andspeak to them they were.
I was a little nervous.
It was my first time being onthis and I was super young I
mean, I think I was 21 at thetime and I was.
(13:49):
I don't know what I have to say.
That's going to be differentthan what they've heard or I'm
going to have a lasting impacton them.
And so I remember doing thepresentation and I got really
vulnerable.
I was talking about the passingof my grandfather and how that
had a huge instrumental playrole in my life of just kind of
mental health.
I just started lashing out onpeople when I was grieving and I
didn't know why I was lashingout, but I was.
(14:10):
Now I know I was grieving.
I didn't grieve in the properway and how.
That damaged relationships andwe talk about getting cut from
the basketball team.
It was because of my mouth, itwas because I was talking poorly
to the coach and it wasn'tbecause I didn't like him.
It wasn't because I didn't likehim, it wasn't because of that,
but it was because I wasgrieving.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So I gave that yeah so.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
I gave that presentation, and the amount of
youth that came up to me afterthat presentation let me know
that they were going throughsomething similar and maybe it
wasn't a grandfather, but maybeit was a parent, maybe it was a
sibling.
Maybe it was an aunt or whoeverit was.
It was everything justreaffirming to me that people
need to hear some stories, thatthey know that they're not alone
(14:46):
.
And that's when a lot of moreclients, I would say, started
hitting up the local nonprofitthat I worked for previously.
To be like we want Z to comeout and speak to our youth,
because it resonated well, andthat was when the beat dropped
for me.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Well, in moving with the theme of music and the
soundtrack of your life, let'stalk about the verse.
So the verse is the part of thesong that's used to kind of
advance the plot right.
It often tells sometimes thestory.
What is the verse of yourpersonal soundtrack?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
That's good.
It's funny because, like, whenyou go on stage and you're
presenting, you rattle off allthese hip hop lyrics that are
like, but then you're in themoment and you get caught and
you're like wait, what lyric doI say that resonates?
(15:44):
we can't help you if you don'tknow what's going on.
Right, we can't help you if youdon't know what's going on.
And a lot of people feel likethat they're a burden to others
if they can't, if they don't askfor help.
Or if they do ask for help,they don't want to burden
anybody.
They're afraid of the judgmentthat they might receive.
They're afraid of the backlashand the way that they may be
treated afterwards.
But my biggest thing is ask forhelp for sure.
You can't help you if you don'tknow what's going on, and we
can read your body language andyour facial expressions to a T,
(16:07):
but those are our assumptionsunless you tell us and we can
get you the proper help that youdeserve and that you need.
So that's really what I go by,and I'm trying to do better at
practicing what I preach.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
If.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
I'm struggling.
I got to ask for help.
I don't have all the answers,but I know somebody in my
community and my network does,so why not reach out?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I love that because I don't believe we teach that
early enough to be vulnerable,especially to our boys.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Especially the boys.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Especially the boys.
And you, you know as men andyou know as young.
You know young boys.
You know, instead of tellingthem, you can't cry and be tough
, dealing with those feelingsand asking for that help.
Yes, so I love that theorganization is focusing on that
.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
A hundred percent and that's.
I'm glad you brought that upbecause I'm thinking about me
and what I look like, and rightnow we're seeing the increase in
black suicides, black youngpeople's suicides.
So we're talking about 13 andup, so anybody from 13, we're
seeing an increase, but then, aswell as if you're black,
students below the age of 13 aretwo times more likely to die by
(17:11):
suicide than their counterpartsthan their other peers, and
that goes to your sentiment ofwe need to tell people that are
black youth that it's OK to askfor help.
You're not any less.
You're not weak for asking forhelp.
You're not any less of a blackperson for asking Like I don't
know where this idea came fromthat you're not black enough.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
it comes from the generational curses.
You mentioned it in part oneand not in that term, but I
heard it and we've been taughtabout that.
You keeping your head downright, it's how we've been
taught.
It's not okay to talk about ourfeelings.
What I think is important islearning how to meet these youth
where they are.
My son introduced me toSnapchat, having a therapy
(17:51):
interactive.
You know Snapchat therapist andI said I like it.
You know she might tell you tojump on the building.
And he said Mom, relax, you know, it really is just warming me
up to the idea of talking tosomebody.
He said you are absolutelycorrect, I idea of talking to
somebody that you are absolutelycorrect.
I need to talk to somebody, butit's uncomfortable, I don't
know how to do that, and so thatSnapchat amazingly introduced
(18:17):
him to the concept of havingthat authentic, vulnerable
conversation and he said now I'mready, but I think that's also
important, right?
Just kind of saying go totherapy, right.
As opposed to kind of reallywarming them up to it and
teaching them why it's okay andthrow out that generational
curse of you can't cry becauseyou got to be a hard.
(18:39):
Male Men have feminine energythat they need to also be able
to release.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
That's so good.
I'm glad that you were alsoreset to the fact of all right.
This is new to me, but if thisis working for you and it's
warming it up to you, let'scontinue.
I'm going to keep an eye out,but I'm also going to make sure
that you're well taken care of.
But give it a try.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Meeting them where they are.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
That's so important.
I love that that's so important, I love that that's huge.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So the chorus is the heart of the song.
It usually captures the mainmessage and emotional essence.
It's the part that most peoplesing along and remember the
words.
What has been Zion's coremessage or the chorus in your
career, your personal life orboth?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Yeah, I think it goes back to the part one of the up
to it.
Down to it, we do it becausewe're used to it.
That was a chant that my dadused to do with his friends and
it was something that was huge.
It was prevalent in my life.
So when we talk about up to it,is having a, a goal, something
that you want to achieve, that'spositive.
And if you have and this is myfavorite, my one of my other
(19:40):
favorite sayings that I heardfrom my mentor, geronda montano,
and she, like, if you havenothing to aim for, you're going
to hit it every time.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Oh, I love that.
That's easy Right.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
But when you have a target and a goal it gets a
little difficult and I was likethat.
That reigns true to me.
So that's what up to it is.
It's having that goal in mind,that passion, whatever, that
you're driving, and then thedown to it is that work.
Are you out putting your reps?
Are you, uh, doing the research?
What are you doing?
Are you asking for help?
That's down to it, uh, and thenwe do.
(20:11):
It is finding that communitythat's with you.
Well, what community are youthat you have?
You have to leave to grow, orwhat community are you growing
within already?
right resources in there, so andthen the last one is because
we're used to it.
It's the repetition aspect.
It's like you can't do it justone time now it's building a
habit right, so that's that yeahit's like going to the gym, as
(20:33):
we always say right, you got towork the muscles or else you're
going to lose it.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So for sure, yes, can I ask the?
I know you like to like.
We met you at a coffee chat umblack hr society and there's a
Thank you.
We'll be bringing that backright.
We've got some more excitingthings coming.
Tell us the bridge betweenUpToIt and DHR practitioners and
(20:56):
why you all think it'simportant to start in that space
.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought this question up.
It goes long-winded when we'rein person.
I'm like I've got to figure outhow to narrow it down.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
But now, since we're on the podcast, you're trapped.
I know that's what's happening.
That's what we'll do.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
One of the reasons why we are going into HR spaces
or especially like employeeassistant programs is because we
understand how hard it is to bea parent or to care for a child
, and we really work with theage range from 11 to 21.
It's kind of our sweet spot,working with pre-tweens and then
(21:34):
young adults.
So we noticed that there is ahuge need for somebody to bridge
the gap between their youth andthe adults that are caring for
these youth.
Because I'll go to a schoolevent or I'll go to school
districts and be like hey, thisis what we do for the youth, and
they'll be like we love that,yes, bring that in for the youth
.
And I'll be like, oh well, thisis what we do for the adults,
and they're like man.
I don't need that, I don't needthat, but if it's for the kids,
(21:56):
oh, we're there for you and forus.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
now we're good.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
But we notice that disconnect and you mentioned it
here where this bridge, this gap?
Where we're giving the youththe education and they're trying
to implement it into theirdaily lives, but the adults in
their lives aren't receiving thesame information, so it gets
undone and they go back into oldhabits.
So we were like well, where areadults spending most of their
time?
Oh at work At work, right?
Yes, we are.
Yeah, yeah, rightfully so, andwe realize that it's hard to get
(22:30):
parents to come to an afterschool night when you just work
an eight hour, 10 hour shift,right, and you're like Jamal and
Zion are presenting who?
All of you know these guys.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Who are they going to tell?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
me that I don't know these guys.
It's true, I got another kidthat I got to pick up Like I'm
not going to this event.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
So the other thought was let's do it virtually.
But what tends to happen whenpeople do things virtually is
they're doing something else.
They got to post it up.
Okay, yeah, we're cleaning.
That's a good nugget, okay, allright, but there's something
different about this in-personconnection and conversation that
, like we're having today, Likewe're having today.
(23:15):
So when we go into these, theseHR spaces, we're really trying
to advocate that, hey, not onlywill this benefit your employees
on their personal level, butthey show up as their personal
selves every day when they clockinto this job.
Right, so we got to care.
This shows the employee or yourteam members that you care
about them on a deeper levelthan just a worker be to make
ends meet, on a deeper levelthan just a worker B to make
ends meet, right, like.
So we're really, and it expiresand inspires retention, and I
love that.
You, when you talked about theorganization that you're working
with and the founder of is, youwant that retention, that, that
(23:35):
that talent, and you want tomake sure that we retain this
talent because, as you know, youknow the numbers and the stats,
that retention is at an alltime low.
It at an all-time low.
It's hard to keep.
It's hard to keep people therefor a long time, especially
talented people, it's true right.
So if employees just take anextra step, of employees just
take an extra step to be like wegot something that will help
you out and invite us into their, in their spaces.
Not even us doesn't have to beus, it can be another
(23:57):
organization or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, just feel the need.
Feel the need.
So what?
My question?
I noticed you talk about theEAP.
Have you all talked about thehealth and wellness angle?
I know there is H-Web hereHealthy Workplaces, arizona.
Have you partnered with them totalk about you know how?
Because they really do a greatjob of infusing health and
(24:20):
wellness in the workplaces.
But there could be a greatopportunity to kind of get into
some of those spaces throughH-Web.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Definitely no.
I didn't even know that thatorganization existed, so I know
this is good to know.
This is great information.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
For sure.
I was also thinking, you knowmost companies do some sort of
benefits fair and so having thatresource there.
But I also love the fact thatyou guys are supporting that EAP
.
I know, tj, I'm sure you get anoffice full of you know,
employees that are juststruggling and it's affecting
their work, and so we alwayskind of resource EAP out.
(24:55):
But a lot of times, you know,some of their challenges are
with their kids.
They're missing work because ofthis connection or disconnection
or you know whatever they havegoing through.
So to have a resource that theycan, you know, not necessarily
a therapist, but just somethingelse getting through that
preteen or tween or early youngadult stage to partner with them
(25:16):
, would definitely help.
I know a lot of employees thatI have reached out to because
you know they're struggling,trying to connect with their
kids and it's not because of anabsent parent or anything like
that.
It's just that connection andage gap.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So I love that it's different for the millennials,
the millennials, the A I don'tknow what they call them yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Depending on that generation itis different to connect with
them.
But we know happy, healthyemployees are productive.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
So I think it's a health and wellness angle as
well.
I love that.
I love using that angle as well.
I love that you mentionedconnectedness, because the funny
part about the presentation iscalled Conversations that
Connect, that's what it's about.
It's having these toughconversations for strong
connections.
That's what the presentation isabout.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I have a 14-year-old and I'm working on it.
Every day I hear you, you thinkyou're hip until you have a
teenager in the house.
Right, remind you how, not hipyou are.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
I feel that I feel that All right.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
So we talked about you know the verse and the
chorus, and so what's left isthe bridge when it comes to a
song, the bridge, you know,breaks up that repetitiveness.
It's usually what we remember.
You know something catchy.
It adds an element of surprise,you know the hook comes in
there and that's what you'rekind of jamming to.
(26:38):
So you know what is your bridge.
What is that?
One thing that you know maybeshook up your life a little bit.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Yeah, I think it was my senior year of high school,
where and this is part of mystory that I share with the
youth when I do my keynotespeaking is in high school.
I always wore this mask andthey don't tell you in high
school, when you're senior yearapproaches, that when you come
back from winter break, a lot ofchange happens so quickly.
People are accepting our offerletters to go to different
(27:05):
colleges, to different cities,to different states, are going
to overseas to serve ourmilitary, right these things.
And you're like wait, I thoughtwe were just going to go out to
dinner all together and hangout and stay the same or not
stay the same, but be in thesame environment.
And when that hit for me it washuge, it was overwhelming.
(27:26):
It was something that I wasn'tprepared for.
So what I ended up falling intowas this distancing or
disassociation is the term withmy mental health, where it feels
like I was waking up every day,but I was watching myself wake
up.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I was.
You know what I mean, Just kindof watching it play out.
It's on auto.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
It's auto every day I realized that I couldn't have
conversations longer than fiveminutes because I couldn't
empathize with people, and thatwas one of my strongest things
as a student still is is myempathy.
So when that was lost, I wasterrified.
I was terrified of my own bodyyeah, I hear you and I was like
what is happening?
What do I do?
And then the whole societalthing is of, while I'm black and
(28:14):
mexican, these are two culturesthat we don't talk about mental
health, because when you talkabout these things, you're weak,
you're soft, you're, you'recrazy.
And in my mexican culture it'sthere's, no, there's no such
thing as depression or stress.
There's, no, there's no.
Spanish translation for thesethings is what's the the
argument was, but I want to letpeople know that are listening
(28:34):
and watching.
There are spanish translationsfor stress and depression and
it's real, it's a real thing.
So this is internal conflict of.
Do I talk about this withsomebody, then, on top of it,
I'm the oldest on in my family.
I'm the oldest so uh only two,but I'm the oldest grandkid, I'm
the oldest cousin, I'm theoldest.
So, uh, the only two, but I'mthe oldest grandkid, I'm the
oldest cousin.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I'm the oldest brother.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
So all this weight that's on me.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
And it was just hard.
But I realized that I had tohave a conversation with my mom
and she met me with grace andsupportiveness and she got me
the help that I deserved, andthat's what I needed the most.
I would say that was the bridgethat really shook me up and
made me an advocate for what I'mdoing now.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I love it, I love the story, I love the testimony.
You know, because when we talkabout and look at who you are
today, you know we wouldn'tthink that.
But most of us that have becomewho we are today have gone
through some stuff, have gonethrough some storms and some
resilience has come out of it.
So kudos to you, zion.
Tell me what song is like yourgo-to when you're going through
(29:40):
those tough times is challengingand you just know it's about to
be war.
What are you putting on to?
get you through to armor you.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
It's funny because I would think people are like oh,
he's going to pick a hype song,this, this is gonna be the one
that gets you amped up and readyto go.
But I'm gonna go a little bitsofter and go something that's a
little bit more wordy, lyrical,which is uh, more storytelling,
which is a windowpane uh 98 byuh, windowpane by j cole, and
that's my favorite, yeah, yeah,my gosh I have to always plug
him and it's.
(30:06):
It's the story of just talkingabout.
One of the lines that stick outto me is because of the work
that I do, where I get tointeract with these youth on
almost a daily basis, and, um,one of the lines in there she's
like this little girl came up tome she said don't forget me, I
won't forget you.
How could I, with all you'vebeen through a bullet, hit your
cousin's temple while he waswith you and while you were
talking I was tearing up where'sthe tissue?
(30:28):
and these are some of thesestories that I hear on a daily
right in real life of likestudents, seeing hope in me and
knowing that they're okay andknowing that you know the work
that we're doing.
It is great work.
This is the work that needs tobe doing and how's my
grandfather would call it?
Speaker 3 (30:45):
it's kingdom work yeah, oh, yeah work of the
kingdom.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
This is what we're trying to empower our youth to,
to be great.
So I would say Windowpane by JCole is one of those songs that
I listen to to reaffirm whatwe're doing.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I love it, thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Well, this kind of piggybacks on that, and you know
we talked about this song, butis there an album that you would
recommend for someone to listento?
Maybe that gets them throughfrom front to end as a go-to.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
That's a good question.
I don't want to be that guy.
Oh, he's J.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Cole all the time.
That's what it is.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
He is my favorite artist.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
He's got to be your favorite for a reason.
I call them prophets, if thathelps.
No, that works.
They're giving us a word.
They are.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
I'm going to go with 2014 Forest Hill Drive front to
back.
If you're struggling and you'retrying to figure out, what
lifestyle do I want to live?
I think there's some greatstories and I'm thinking about
it.
One of the best songs on thatalbum is Adolescence 03, where J
Cole's talking about how he'sin this predicament of do I want
to sell drugs and live thislife like my friends?
Are that they look like they'redoing well?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
They got the money.
They got the money, they gotthe girls.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
They got the attention?
Or do I want to live this lifewhere I go to college and I go
to St John's?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
and I do the work and whatever that looks like for me
, and that's nothing differentthan what I'm used to seeing.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
And then he talks about his friends being an
advocate for him to go.
Hey, go the college route, youdon't want to be here.
Do the college thing.
So if you're trying to find asense of purpose or you feel
like you're isolated or a weirdofor not wanting to go do drugs
or not wanting to go treat womenbadly, then I would recommend
listening to this album and belike yeah, there is always an
alternative.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
There's always a choice.
He's a great lyricist.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
He is, he definitely is.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
All right, all right.
So, zion, we really want tothank you for being here and
just really appreciate your timetoday.
Tell everybody where they canfind you in these social streets
.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Yeah, of course you can follow me personally at Zion
underscore, underscore, givens,and then you can follow the
company up to it at up to it, az.
That's all one word, and weshould be the first one that
pops up.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
All right.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
We really appreciate it.
I learned a lot during thispart one or part two.
Definitely look for part one toget the full story of Zion.
We also want to thank oursponsors, coffee and Procure
Talent Management Group.
(33:14):
I love it Awesome.
I am the CEO and founder ofProcure Talent Management Group.
I'm also the VP of the Black HRSociety Professional
Development and Membership.
You can find me on the socialhandles as well on Instagram,
linkedin and Facebook.
We also can find me atShatimaWeWantToTalkAboutItcom
(33:39):
for the podcast.
So we're excited about that.
Procure Talent Management Groupis an HR consultant firm that
specializes in talent management.
So how we attract, hire, retainand develop employees.
Super excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
TJ.
You want to go ahead and gothrough your handles?
Sure Coffee is consultingoptions for you.
We help individuals buildlegacy wealth.
We start with your personalcredit.
If you need credit or havecredit challenges, we can help
you build and repair.
And if you want to start abusiness, we'll help you with
that and also to upscale yourbusiness.
You can find me at TJ, atwewannatalkaboutitcom.
(34:21):
The podcast also is on social.
Let's talk about it, thepodcast on every single social
platform as well.
We want to give a shout out andthank you to the Black HR
Society, who also has sponsoredthe podcast.
You can find Black HR Societyon every platform as well.
Black HR Society is our handles.
(34:42):
Please be sure to like, follow,share and subscribe to all of
those socials I just mentioned,and you can also find us on your
favorite podcast show or link,wherever you find your podcast.
Thank you for attending andfollowing us here.
We welcome you back in a fewweeks and we hope you've enjoyed
(35:02):
the show.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Thank you for tuning into let's Talk About it the
podcast.
We hope you enjoyed today'sconversation and found
inspiration in the stories andexperiences shared.
We trust that you wereentertained, learned something
new and felt inspired by today'sshow.
Be sure to subscribe, like,follow, share and join us for
(35:24):
the next episode.
Until then, keep theconversation going and let's
keep talking about it.
Welcome to let's Talk About it, the podcast where we
shine a light on the changeagents and everyday heroes who
shape our communities.
Here we dive deep into thelived experiences of our guests,
exploring the milestone momentsthat have either propelled them
forward or changed their paths.
We anchor every conversation intwo foundational pillars of the
(00:28):
Black community books and music.
Through this unique lens, wecapture, entertain and inform,
weaving a rich tapestry ofstories and insights that
resonate, inspire and sparkmeaningful dialogue.
Join our host, tj Lowry andShatima Grisham as they engage
with thought leaders andcommunity change agents to
(00:51):
uncover the rich tapestry ofexperiences that shape our lives
.
Get ready for insightfuldiscussions, unfiltered
perspectives and the celebrationof Black excellence.
Let's talk about it.
Of Black Excellence let's talkabout it.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Hey everyone, Welcome to let's Talk About it the
podcast.
I'm your girl, TJ, here, andI'm so excited to get into
today's podcast.
Before we jump into theconversation, though, I want to
introduce you to my co-host,Shatima.
Let's talk about it, Shatima.
How you doing, girl, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Thanks, CJ, for the intro.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm pretty good.
I'm pretty good.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Absolutely.
We have a wonderful guestcoming up, so excited to get
into that.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
But before we do, I know that we are HR
professionals and it's taboo andwe've been preconditioned not
to talk politics.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Did you get a chance to?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
talk, watch the DNC.
The last few days it has been aparty right Like.
We've never seen a DNC likethis.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
No, the turnip has been great.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And I'm so excited for it yeah, what was one?
Of your favorite highlights.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You know I love Auntie Michelle so she's forever
my first lady.
So she was a mic drop for sureshe was.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Well, I think she is going to go viral.
We're going to try to figureout how to bring her back in the
White House because she wasreading people.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Absolutely.
I've made it really hard to getup and go to my black job the
next day.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I know right.
Well, who are you inviting orintroducing us to to join us on
our podcast today?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Who are you introducing us to yeah,
absolutely, so we are lucky tohave Mr Zion Givens.
Welcome to the let's Talk Aboutit podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Awesome.
Welcome back, Zion.
We're excited to get into parttwo with you.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
All right.
Well, zion is the co-founderand presenter of Up To it, which
is an organization that workswith youth, families and
organizations to help themconnect, communicate and thrive.
Prior to Up To it, he worked ata local nonprofit called Not my
Kid and he was the youthprevention team lead there.
He is also a native to Arizona,from Tucson, bear down, Bear
(02:57):
down, so it is great to have youhere again with us.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Thanks for having me again.
I'm super excited.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Good, good.
Well, Zion, I think you knowthis already, but as HR
practitioners we do likeicebreakers, just to kind of
warm up the room, get us intothe combo.
So we've got a cute littleicebreaker here called Talk To
Me.
So we're going to ask you aquestion.
Just think and tell us thefirst thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
All right.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So this time around, tell me your favorite hip hop
artist.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
J Cole.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Oh no hesitation no hesitation.
Is it the lyrics?
It's the lyrics.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
It's the humility, it's the intellectual.
I love the guy that's my man Ahundred percent.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
I was nervous for him this summer though.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
When I came for him, I was nervous for him.
This summer, though, when youknow it came for him, I was
nervous.
I was so happy that he bowedout.
He was that bad.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
He was smart, right, very smart.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Kendrick was like yo, hey, kendrick was like yo hey,
you might want to sit this oneout.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
He did he did.
Exactly Love it.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
What about your favorite hip-hop music video?
Oh, exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Love it.
What about your favoritehip-hop music video?
Oh, music video Dang.
You know what I'm going to go?
Kiss, kiss, t-pain Chris Brown.
Okay, that was a fun musicvideo, that was good, it's funny
.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
You went back because I feel like we grew up watching
videos.
So, and 106 and Park, do thekids have video shows?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
now Not anymore, not like they used to Remember the
box that was good, the 106th andPark was my thing Every Friday.
I was always tuning intoTerrence Howard 6 foot, 7 foot
was like my little Wayne wasgoing viral.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Remember, mr Bow Wow was Mr 106th and Park.
He was 100% they don't have avideo show.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
They have no more.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Just have to stream it.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, we gotta stream it YouTube.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
They are.
Tell us your favorite R&B albumof all time.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
R&B album of all time .
I love this conversation, oh myGod.
Now I can rattle off some, butI think I'm gonna go.
I might throw it back here.
That's a tough question.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
You almost have to with R&B.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
You do.
I mean, they don't make R&Blike they used to.
No more, it's all pop, right,ooh, r&b.
See, now you got me Over heretripping and stumbling.
It would be Usher for me whichone, which album?
I don't care.
See now you got me over heretripping and stumbling, and it
would be Usher for me which oneI'm telling you the older.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
You know, I might, I might go a little bit more
modern, then I might go BrunoMars Anderson.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
So that was a yeah that was such a great album it
was.
So what was that Soak Sonic?
Yeah, love that one.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
What about a pop song that you always get to dance in
?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
A pop song that always gets me dancing.
I'm going to go Doja Cat andGucci Mane.
I don't know if you heard thatsong before.
It was big.
During the pandemic, me and mysister were like, riding around,
we go get ice cream.
She'd be so embarrassed.
Which one was it?
Oh, is it like that I thinkit's like that Gucci Mane and
(06:12):
Doja Cat.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
That's one of my favorites.
She's in my gym rotation.
Get into it.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
That's a good one too .
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Get into it.
What about a favorite collab?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I think you just gave us one.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, Gucci Mane about a favorite collab I think
you just gave us one.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yeah, yeah, that counts.
You have a favorite collab?
I think my favorite collab?
Oh, this is y'all, y'allgetting some good conversation.
Look at this um my favoritecollab would probably have to be
run dmc and aerosmith you liketo be oh yeah what about the
(06:55):
most underrated artists?
Oh, most underrated artists.
Maybe that doesn't get enoughflowers.
I'm gonna go see and it's funnybecause you still have a music
podcast and we had conversationslike this all the time we threw
you off.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, you did.
I was like, yeah, I'm talkinghr today, no um underrated
artist that doesn't get enoughappreciation or flowers.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
I'm gonna go the dream yeah, the dream he too.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Some bangers, so much yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Writes a lot.
Writes so well.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So much, that's a good one Now most people don't
know about the beef between himand going back and forth about
Nivea and writing and people didnot know, so that's kind of fun
.
That was a good memory.
Yes, what.
What about Kendrick and Drake?
Who are you picking?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Ooh, I'm Arizona, so that's close to the West Coast.
I'm going K-Dot.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
It feels like he's winning, obviously, although.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I'm kind of over it.
I have to admit.
I changed the station.
Now I think, Drake even pickedKendrick.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
He's been playing him at his concert, Right?
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I think he kind of laughed through it.
He conceded right.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Right, he did, he did , yeah, so are you into PDA?
Speaker 4 (08:06):
No no.
That was a strong no Publicdisplay of affection.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
That's what you're talking about.
That was a strong no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
No, I'm just naturally hot in general, like
temperature, temperature, hot.
So to have somebody all up onme, especially my fiance, I like
, oh please, my hands get sweaty, it's just a mess.
Yeah, like, don't touch me,I'll touch you when I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I don't know I can't co-sign that one, okay, yeah
holding, grabbing your arm.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yes, yes, but even in the bed cuddling, I'm like it's
too hot to be cuddling.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I love that.
What was the first concert youremember going to?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
T-Pain.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Oh you are serious T-Pain.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
You're kind of underrated too.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I agree I could have thrown him in there too, but
that was in high school.
He came to the Pima County Fair.
It's always tied.
It's T-Pain and then Lil Yachty.
I saw Lil Yachty right afterT-Pain.
Those were two experiences Iwill never forget.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I got grounded for a long time for Lil Yachty, but
that's a whole otherconversation for another time.
What about an artist who hasthe best style?
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Best style, style, that style.
Who do I try to mimic a lot of?
I think that's.
I think, see, I'm not eventhinking artist, I'm thinking
now I'm gonna put devin bookerin there that's okay.
Yeah, I like okay, it's simpleit's neutral, it's baggy, but
yet you know he has some accentcolors in there kind of plain,
(09:41):
but still still there, you know.
Yeah, still looks nice andclean.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I feel like you picked him because he was a son.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
That has to be one of the reasons as well.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
What CDs in rotation?
Right now I'm aging myself.
What do you listen to in yourApple?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
music there we go.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
What's heavy in rotation?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I still have.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
CDs, tj, I do.
They don't give a lot of playtime, but I still have them.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Cds are cool I mean, they're coming back.
So is vinyl records.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I do have vinyls.
I do have a vinyl record player, so very cool.
What's in rotation?
Speaker 4 (10:18):
my rotation right now that I'm listening to a lot of
is Blast.
I don't know if you've everheard of Blast before B-L-X-S-T
super dope.
He's from the west coast thatI'm listening to a lot of is
Blast.
I don't know if you've everheard of Blast before B-L-X-S-T
Super dope.
He's from the West Coast,coming out in the same kind of
incubator that Kendrick came outof, and all those West Coast
artists so very R&B-ish, veryhip-hop-ish as well Love him.
(10:38):
We're going to go see him inconcert in November.
So that's exciting, that's cute.
And what's your favorite genre?
So my favorite genre of musicman is, like I always say,
hip-hop, because hip-hop is whatmade me, what raised me, so I'm
gonna stick with that.
That's definitely where I grewup on okay.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, tell us when you first fell in love with
hip-hop there's two memoriesthat I have that are quite
prominent.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
The first one I'll keep it short and brief is, uh,
I remember my dad playing getrich or die, trying by 50 cent
in the car and I knew that fromthat moment I'd hopped out in
preschool and I remembered that,like many men playing behind me
, I'm like nobody's like comingafter me, like I don't know why.
I'm like listening to this song, like I got hits on me or
whatever, but this was one ofthe artists that really was
(11:19):
prominent in my life.
But then, uh, as I grew up, Iremember the hip-hop blogs
talking about this new artistand they were hyping him up and
he had like a awesome teddy bearin the in his album.
I was like, okay, this seemskind of interesting, so I played
it, that's what I fell in love.
And the artist was a kanye westcollege dropout, college
dropout.
Yeah, the blogs were going crazyabout him and I was like this
(11:41):
is I get it now?
I get it, it.
That was my introduction to hiphop.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Production wise, that was a good album the skits.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Cedric the Entertainer on there.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Oh man, I'm trying not to be offended that 50
Cent's album was when you're inpreschool, because Age enough,
yes, but I agree those are somegood ones.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So speak to your music.
How you got into hip-hop?
How did you get into the careeryou're in?
Yeah, in the same termsrelatively definitely.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Uh.
So my dad's been in the theI'll say, non-profit public
speaking world for about 20 plusyears and I never knew what he
did for a living.
Growing up my parents were.
I mean, I'd be like, yeah, hegoes and talks to people and he
loves it, he talks to youth andhe always has snacks in his
office.
That's all I remember and Inever knew what he actually did.
And when he came to my schooland he did a leadership
(12:35):
presentation for my pep assembly, for our school, and I remember
a student behind me, a peer,and he was like, damn, I wish
that was my dad up there, and Iremember that interaction that
was really brief and reallysimple, but I overheard it and I
was like I want to have thatsame impact and same feeling.
Maybe not as a dad, you know,for the young people I don't
want to be a dad.
I was like maybe the cool bigbrother, maybe the big, the cool
(12:56):
uncle right now, in this moment.
And that's what really got meinto, got me curious on what is
prevention, what is behavioralhealth, what is mental health,
what can we do more?
And that's what kind of got meinto, into the field that I'm in
now.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Okay, Very good, I love that.
So when did the beat drop inyour career?
This would be after those first16 bars of you realizing, like
dang, my dad is cool and youknow.
Now this is that moment whereyou really saw yourself in this
career and has taken off.
When did the beat drop?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I think the beat dropped for me when I got
invited to a keynotepresentation for a nonprofit out
here in Arizona called BringChange to Mind and when I got
that invitation to come out andspeak to them they were.
I was a little nervous.
It was my first time being onthis and I was super young I
mean, I think I was 21 at thetime and I was.
(13:49):
I don't know what I have to say.
That's going to be differentthan what they've heard or I'm
going to have a lasting impacton them.
And so I remember doing thepresentation and I got really
vulnerable.
I was talking about the passingof my grandfather and how that
had a huge instrumental playrole in my life of just kind of
mental health.
I just started lashing out onpeople when I was grieving and I
didn't know why I was lashingout, but I was.
(14:10):
Now I know I was grieving.
I didn't grieve in the properway and how.
That damaged relationships andwe talk about getting cut from
the basketball team.
It was because of my mouth, itwas because I was talking poorly
to the coach and it wasn'tbecause I didn't like him.
It wasn't because I didn't likehim, it wasn't because of that,
but it was because I wasgrieving.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So I gave that yeah so.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
I gave that presentation, and the amount of
youth that came up to me afterthat presentation let me know
that they were going throughsomething similar and maybe it
wasn't a grandfather, but maybeit was a parent, maybe it was a
sibling.
Maybe it was an aunt or whoeverit was.
It was everything justreaffirming to me that people
need to hear some stories, thatthey know that they're not alone
(14:46):
.
And that's when a lot of moreclients, I would say, started
hitting up the local nonprofitthat I worked for previously.
To be like we want Z to comeout and speak to our youth,
because it resonated well, andthat was when the beat dropped
for me.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Well, in moving with the theme of music and the
soundtrack of your life, let'stalk about the verse.
So the verse is the part of thesong that's used to kind of
advance the plot right.
It often tells sometimes thestory.
What is the verse of yourpersonal soundtrack?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
That's good.
It's funny because, like, whenyou go on stage and you're
presenting, you rattle off allthese hip hop lyrics that are
like, but then you're in themoment and you get caught and
you're like wait, what lyric doI say that resonates?
(15:44):
we can't help you if you don'tknow what's going on.
Right, we can't help you if youdon't know what's going on.
And a lot of people feel likethat they're a burden to others
if they can't, if they don't askfor help.
Or if they do ask for help,they don't want to burden
anybody.
They're afraid of the judgmentthat they might receive.
They're afraid of the backlashand the way that they may be
treated afterwards.
But my biggest thing is ask forhelp for sure.
You can't help you if you don'tknow what's going on, and we
can read your body language andyour facial expressions to a T,
(16:07):
but those are our assumptionsunless you tell us and we can
get you the proper help that youdeserve and that you need.
So that's really what I go by,and I'm trying to do better at
practicing what I preach.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
If.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
I'm struggling.
I got to ask for help.
I don't have all the answers,but I know somebody in my
community and my network does,so why not reach out?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I love that because I don't believe we teach that
early enough to be vulnerable,especially to our boys.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Especially the boys.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Especially the boys.
And you, you know as men andyou know as young.
You know young boys.
You know, instead of tellingthem, you can't cry and be tough
, dealing with those feelingsand asking for that help.
Yes, so I love that theorganization is focusing on that
.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
A hundred percent and that's.
I'm glad you brought that upbecause I'm thinking about me
and what I look like, and rightnow we're seeing the increase in
black suicides, black youngpeople's suicides.
So we're talking about 13 andup, so anybody from 13, we're
seeing an increase, but then, aswell as if you're black,
students below the age of 13 aretwo times more likely to die by
(17:11):
suicide than their counterpartsthan their other peers, and
that goes to your sentiment ofwe need to tell people that are
black youth that it's OK to askfor help.
You're not any less.
You're not weak for asking forhelp.
You're not any less of a blackperson for asking Like I don't
know where this idea came fromthat you're not black enough.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
it comes from the generational curses.
You mentioned it in part oneand not in that term, but I
heard it and we've been taughtabout that.
You keeping your head downright, it's how we've been
taught.
It's not okay to talk about ourfeelings.
What I think is important islearning how to meet these youth
where they are.
My son introduced me toSnapchat, having a therapy
(17:51):
interactive.
You know Snapchat therapist andI said I like it.
You know she might tell you tojump on the building.
And he said Mom, relax, you know, it really is just warming me
up to the idea of talking tosomebody.
He said you are absolutelycorrect, I idea of talking to
somebody that you are absolutelycorrect.
I need to talk to somebody, butit's uncomfortable, I don't
know how to do that, and so thatSnapchat amazingly introduced
(18:17):
him to the concept of havingthat authentic, vulnerable
conversation and he said now I'mready, but I think that's also
important, right?
Just kind of saying go totherapy, right.
As opposed to kind of reallywarming them up to it and
teaching them why it's okay andthrow out that generational
curse of you can't cry becauseyou got to be a hard.
(18:39):
Male Men have feminine energythat they need to also be able
to release.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
That's so good.
I'm glad that you were alsoreset to the fact of all right.
This is new to me, but if thisis working for you and it's
warming it up to you, let'scontinue.
I'm going to keep an eye out,but I'm also going to make sure
that you're well taken care of.
But give it a try.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Meeting them where they are.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
That's so important.
I love that that's so important, I love that that's huge.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So the chorus is the heart of the song.
It usually captures the mainmessage and emotional essence.
It's the part that most peoplesing along and remember the
words.
What has been Zion's coremessage or the chorus in your
career, your personal life orboth?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Yeah, I think it goes back to the part one of the up
to it.
Down to it, we do it becausewe're used to it.
That was a chant that my dadused to do with his friends and
it was something that was huge.
It was prevalent in my life.
So when we talk about up to it,is having a, a goal, something
that you want to achieve, that'spositive.
And if you have and this is myfavorite, my one of my other
(19:40):
favorite sayings that I heardfrom my mentor, geronda montano,
and she, like, if you havenothing to aim for, you're going
to hit it every time.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Oh, I love that.
That's easy Right.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
But when you have a target and a goal it gets a
little difficult and I was likethat.
That reigns true to me.
So that's what up to it is.
It's having that goal in mind,that passion, whatever, that
you're driving, and then thedown to it is that work.
Are you out putting your reps?
Are you, uh, doing the research?
What are you doing?
Are you asking for help?
That's down to it, uh, and thenwe do.
(20:11):
It is finding that communitythat's with you.
Well, what community are youthat you have?
You have to leave to grow, orwhat community are you growing
within already?
right resources in there, so andthen the last one is because
we're used to it.
It's the repetition aspect.
It's like you can't do it justone time now it's building a
habit right, so that's that yeahit's like going to the gym, as
(20:33):
we always say right, you got towork the muscles or else you're
going to lose it.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So for sure, yes, can I ask the?
I know you like to like.
We met you at a coffee chat umblack hr society and there's a
Thank you.
We'll be bringing that backright.
We've got some more excitingthings coming.
Tell us the bridge betweenUpToIt and DHR practitioners and
(20:56):
why you all think it'simportant to start in that space
.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought this question up.
It goes long-winded when we'rein person.
I'm like I've got to figure outhow to narrow it down.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
But now, since we're on the podcast, you're trapped.
I know that's what's happening.
That's what we'll do.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
One of the reasons why we are going into HR spaces
or especially like employeeassistant programs is because we
understand how hard it is to bea parent or to care for a child
, and we really work with theage range from 11 to 21.
It's kind of our sweet spot,working with pre-tweens and then
(21:34):
young adults.
So we noticed that there is ahuge need for somebody to bridge
the gap between their youth andthe adults that are caring for
these youth.
Because I'll go to a schoolevent or I'll go to school
districts and be like hey, thisis what we do for the youth, and
they'll be like we love that,yes, bring that in for the youth
.
And I'll be like, oh well, thisis what we do for the adults,
and they're like man.
I don't need that, I don't needthat, but if it's for the kids,
(21:56):
oh, we're there for you and forus.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
now we're good.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
But we notice that disconnect and you mentioned it
here where this bridge, this gap?
Where we're giving the youththe education and they're trying
to implement it into theirdaily lives, but the adults in
their lives aren't receiving thesame information, so it gets
undone and they go back into oldhabits.
So we were like well, where areadults spending most of their
time?
Oh at work At work, right?
Yes, we are.
Yeah, yeah, rightfully so, andwe realize that it's hard to get
(22:30):
parents to come to an afterschool night when you just work
an eight hour, 10 hour shift,right, and you're like Jamal and
Zion are presenting who?
All of you know these guys.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Who are they going to tell?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
me that I don't know these guys.
It's true, I got another kidthat I got to pick up Like I'm
not going to this event.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
So the other thought was let's do it virtually.
But what tends to happen whenpeople do things virtually is
they're doing something else.
They got to post it up.
Okay, yeah, we're cleaning.
That's a good nugget, okay, allright, but there's something
different about this in-personconnection and conversation that
, like we're having today, Likewe're having today.
(23:15):
So when we go into these, theseHR spaces, we're really trying
to advocate that, hey, not onlywill this benefit your employees
on their personal level, butthey show up as their personal
selves every day when they clockinto this job.
Right, so we got to care.
This shows the employee or yourteam members that you care
about them on a deeper levelthan just a worker be to make
ends meet, on a deeper levelthan just a worker B to make
ends meet, right, like.
So we're really, and it expiresand inspires retention, and I
love that.
You, when you talked about theorganization that you're working
with and the founder of is, youwant that retention, that, that
(23:35):
that talent, and you want tomake sure that we retain this
talent because, as you know, youknow the numbers and the stats,
that retention is at an alltime low.
It at an all-time low.
It's hard to keep.
It's hard to keep people therefor a long time, especially
talented people, it's true right.
So if employees just take anextra step, of employees just
take an extra step to be like wegot something that will help
you out and invite us into their, in their spaces.
Not even us doesn't have to beus, it can be another
(23:57):
organization or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, just feel the need.
Feel the need.
So what?
My question?
I noticed you talk about theEAP.
Have you all talked about thehealth and wellness angle?
I know there is H-Web hereHealthy Workplaces, arizona.
Have you partnered with them totalk about you know how?
Because they really do a greatjob of infusing health and
(24:20):
wellness in the workplaces.
But there could be a greatopportunity to kind of get into
some of those spaces throughH-Web.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Definitely no.
I didn't even know that thatorganization existed, so I know
this is good to know.
This is great information.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
For sure.
I was also thinking, you knowmost companies do some sort of
benefits fair and so having thatresource there.
But I also love the fact thatyou guys are supporting that EAP
.
I know, tj, I'm sure you get anoffice full of you know,
employees that are juststruggling and it's affecting
their work, and so we alwayskind of resource EAP out.
(24:55):
But a lot of times, you know,some of their challenges are
with their kids.
They're missing work because ofthis connection or disconnection
or you know whatever they havegoing through.
So to have a resource that theycan, you know, not necessarily
a therapist, but just somethingelse getting through that
preteen or tween or early youngadult stage to partner with them
(25:16):
, would definitely help.
I know a lot of employees thatI have reached out to because
you know they're struggling,trying to connect with their
kids and it's not because of anabsent parent or anything like
that.
It's just that connection andage gap.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So I love that it's different for the millennials,
the millennials, the A I don'tknow what they call them yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Depending on that generation itis different to connect with
them.
But we know happy, healthyemployees are productive.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
So I think it's a health and wellness angle as
well.
I love that.
I love using that angle as well.
I love that you mentionedconnectedness, because the funny
part about the presentation iscalled Conversations that
Connect, that's what it's about.
It's having these toughconversations for strong
connections.
That's what the presentation isabout.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I have a 14-year-old and I'm working on it.
Every day I hear you, you thinkyou're hip until you have a
teenager in the house.
Right, remind you how, not hipyou are.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
I feel that I feel that All right.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
So we talked about you know the verse and the
chorus, and so what's left isthe bridge when it comes to a
song, the bridge, you know,breaks up that repetitiveness.
It's usually what we remember.
You know something catchy.
It adds an element of surprise,you know the hook comes in
there and that's what you'rekind of jamming to.
(26:38):
So you know what is your bridge.
What is that?
One thing that you know maybeshook up your life a little bit.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Yeah, I think it was my senior year of high school,
where and this is part of mystory that I share with the
youth when I do my keynotespeaking is in high school.
I always wore this mask andthey don't tell you in high
school, when you're senior yearapproaches, that when you come
back from winter break, a lot ofchange happens so quickly.
People are accepting our offerletters to go to different
(27:05):
colleges, to different cities,to different states, are going
to overseas to serve ourmilitary, right these things.
And you're like wait, I thoughtwe were just going to go out to
dinner all together and hangout and stay the same or not
stay the same, but be in thesame environment.
And when that hit for me it washuge, it was overwhelming.
(27:26):
It was something that I wasn'tprepared for.
So what I ended up falling intowas this distancing or
disassociation is the term withmy mental health, where it feels
like I was waking up every day,but I was watching myself wake
up.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I was.
You know what I mean, Just kindof watching it play out.
It's on auto.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
It's auto every day I realized that I couldn't have
conversations longer than fiveminutes because I couldn't
empathize with people, and thatwas one of my strongest things
as a student still is is myempathy.
So when that was lost, I wasterrified.
I was terrified of my own bodyyeah, I hear you and I was like
what is happening?
What do I do?
And then the whole societalthing is of, while I'm black and
(28:14):
mexican, these are two culturesthat we don't talk about mental
health, because when you talkabout these things, you're weak,
you're soft, you're, you'recrazy.
And in my mexican culture it'sthere's, no, there's no such
thing as depression or stress.
There's, no, there's no.
Spanish translation for thesethings is what's the the
argument was, but I want to letpeople know that are listening
(28:34):
and watching.
There are spanish translationsfor stress and depression and
it's real, it's a real thing.
So this is internal conflict of.
Do I talk about this withsomebody, then, on top of it,
I'm the oldest on in my family.
I'm the oldest so uh only two,but I'm the oldest grandkid, I'm
the oldest cousin, I'm theoldest.
So, uh, the only two, but I'mthe oldest grandkid, I'm the
oldest cousin.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I'm the oldest brother.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
So all this weight that's on me.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
And it was just hard.
But I realized that I had tohave a conversation with my mom
and she met me with grace andsupportiveness and she got me
the help that I deserved, andthat's what I needed the most.
I would say that was the bridgethat really shook me up and
made me an advocate for what I'mdoing now.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I love it, I love the story, I love the testimony.
You know, because when we talkabout and look at who you are
today, you know we wouldn'tthink that.
But most of us that have becomewho we are today have gone
through some stuff, have gonethrough some storms and some
resilience has come out of it.
So kudos to you, zion.
Tell me what song is like yourgo-to when you're going through
(29:40):
those tough times is challengingand you just know it's about to
be war.
What are you putting on to?
get you through to armor you.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
It's funny because I would think people are like oh,
he's going to pick a hype song,this, this is gonna be the one
that gets you amped up and readyto go.
But I'm gonna go a little bitsofter and go something that's a
little bit more wordy, lyrical,which is uh, more storytelling,
which is a windowpane uh 98 byuh, windowpane by j cole, and
that's my favorite, yeah, yeah,my gosh I have to always plug
him and it's.
(30:06):
It's the story of just talkingabout.
One of the lines that stick outto me is because of the work
that I do, where I get tointeract with these youth on
almost a daily basis, and, um,one of the lines in there she's
like this little girl came up tome she said don't forget me, I
won't forget you.
How could I, with all you'vebeen through a bullet, hit your
cousin's temple while he waswith you and while you were
talking I was tearing up where'sthe tissue?
(30:28):
and these are some of thesestories that I hear on a daily
right in real life of likestudents, seeing hope in me and
knowing that they're okay andknowing that you know the work
that we're doing.
It is great work.
This is the work that needs tobe doing and how's my
grandfather would call it?
Speaker 3 (30:45):
it's kingdom work yeah, oh, yeah work of the
kingdom.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
This is what we're trying to empower our youth to,
to be great.
So I would say Windowpane by JCole is one of those songs that
I listen to to reaffirm whatwe're doing.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I love it, thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Well, this kind of piggybacks on that, and you know
we talked about this song, butis there an album that you would
recommend for someone to listento?
Maybe that gets them throughfrom front to end as a go-to.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
That's a good question.
I don't want to be that guy.
Oh, he's J.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Cole all the time.
That's what it is.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
He is my favorite artist.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
He's got to be your favorite for a reason.
I call them prophets, if thathelps.
No, that works.
They're giving us a word.
They are.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
I'm going to go with 2014 Forest Hill Drive front to
back.
If you're struggling and you'retrying to figure out, what
lifestyle do I want to live?
I think there's some greatstories and I'm thinking about
it.
One of the best songs on thatalbum is Adolescence 03, where J
Cole's talking about how he'sin this predicament of do I want
to sell drugs and live thislife like my friends?
Are that they look like they'redoing well?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
They got the money.
They got the money, they gotthe girls.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
They got the attention?
Or do I want to live this lifewhere I go to college and I go
to St John's?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
and I do the work and whatever that looks like for me
, and that's nothing differentthan what I'm used to seeing.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
And then he talks about his friends being an
advocate for him to go.
Hey, go the college route, youdon't want to be here.
Do the college thing.
So if you're trying to find asense of purpose or you feel
like you're isolated or a weirdofor not wanting to go do drugs
or not wanting to go treat womenbadly, then I would recommend
listening to this album and belike yeah, there is always an
alternative.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
There's always a choice.
He's a great lyricist.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
He is, he definitely is.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
All right, all right.
So, zion, we really want tothank you for being here and
just really appreciate your timetoday.
Tell everybody where they canfind you in these social streets
.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Yeah, of course you can follow me personally at Zion
underscore, underscore, givens,and then you can follow the
company up to it at up to it, az.
That's all one word, and weshould be the first one that
pops up.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
All right.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
We really appreciate it.
I learned a lot during thispart one or part two.
Definitely look for part one toget the full story of Zion.
We also want to thank oursponsors, coffee and Procure
Talent Management Group.
(33:14):
I love it Awesome.
I am the CEO and founder ofProcure Talent Management Group.
I'm also the VP of the Black HRSociety Professional
Development and Membership.
You can find me on the socialhandles as well on Instagram,
linkedin and Facebook.
We also can find me atShatimaWeWantToTalkAboutItcom
(33:39):
for the podcast.
So we're excited about that.
Procure Talent Management Groupis an HR consultant firm that
specializes in talent management.
So how we attract, hire, retainand develop employees.
Super excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
TJ.
You want to go ahead and gothrough your handles?
Sure Coffee is consultingoptions for you.
We help individuals buildlegacy wealth.
We start with your personalcredit.
If you need credit or havecredit challenges, we can help
you build and repair.
And if you want to start abusiness, we'll help you with
that and also to upscale yourbusiness.
You can find me at TJ, atwewannatalkaboutitcom.
(34:21):
The podcast also is on social.
Let's talk about it, thepodcast on every single social
platform as well.
We want to give a shout out andthank you to the Black HR
Society, who also has sponsoredthe podcast.
You can find Black HR Societyon every platform as well.
Black HR Society is our handles.
(34:42):
Please be sure to like, follow,share and subscribe to all of
those socials I just mentioned,and you can also find us on your
favorite podcast show or link,wherever you find your podcast.
Thank you for attending andfollowing us here.
We welcome you back in a fewweeks and we hope you've enjoyed
(35:02):
the show.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Thank you for tuning into let's Talk About it the
podcast.
We hope you enjoyed today'sconversation and found
inspiration in the stories andexperiences shared.
We trust that you wereentertained, learned something
new and felt inspired by today'sshow.
Be sure to subscribe, like,follow, share and join us for
(35:24):
the next episode.
Until then, keep theconversation going and let's
keep talking about it.
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