December 8, 2022 • 23 mins
In this episode of "Let's Talk Farm to Fork", we're joined by Leslie Hickle from FarmSense, who we will be talking to about how her pest management technology is helping reduce crop damage and increase fresh produce supplies.
https://www.farmsense.io/
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Episode Transcript
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Voiceover (00:02):
Welcome to let's talk farm to fork, the PostHarvest
podcast that interviews people,making an impact in the fresh
produce sector.
We'll take a deep dive into whatthey do and find out how they're
helping to reduce the amount offood lost or wasted along the
farm to fork journey.
But before we get started, didyou know that according to the
(00:23):
UN's food and agricultureorganisation, around 45% of the
world's fruits and vegetables goto waste each year?
If you would like to learn moreabout how you can practically
play your part in maximisingfruit and vegetable supplies,
whether you're a part of theindustry or simply a consumer
visit PostHarvest.Com and tryout their free online course
(00:45):
library today.
Now time for your host MitchellDenton.
Mitchell Denton (00:50):
Hello and welcome to"Let's Talk Farm to
Fork".
The PostHarvest podcastinterviews people of interest
across the food supply chain.
Today on our show, I'm joined byLeslie Hickle from FarmSense.
Who I'll be talking to about howher pest management technology
is helping reduce crop damageand increase fresh produce
supplies.
So with no further delays, let'sget started.
(01:13):
Well, good morning, Leslie.
Thanks for joining me on thepodcast.
How are you?
Leslie Hickle (01:17):
I'm great, Mitch.
Thanks for inviting me.
How are you today?
Mitchell Denton (01:21):
I'm doing really well, thanks.
But before we get into it, I wasjust wondering if you'd be able
to tell us a little bit aboutyourself and what you do and
maybe a fun fact about yourself.
Leslie Hickle (01:31):
Yeah, I'm really just a eternal optimist who
loves nature.
I ended up studying pestmanagement and pesticide
toxicology at UC Riverside.
But I really wanted to be anautomotive engineer in race cars
cause my dad's an automotiveengineer.
But...
Mitchell Denton (01:47):
Wow.
Leslie Hickle (01:48):
No such luck that time.
So instead I studied bugs and,uh, have never looked back.
Mother nature is alwaysproviding a new challenge.
Mitchell Denton (02:01):
Yeah wow.
What was the turning point, fromlooking at motors to looking at
insects?
Leslie Hickle (02:06):
I think it was because, uh, most colleges and
universities at the time weren'tlooking at, uh, women as being
in those disciplines.
But to this day, my favouritesport is NHRA, which is the
National Hot Rod Association andMoto GP, I don't know if you
follow those two sports, butthey're fast bikes and fast
cars.
Mitchell Denton (02:27):
Yeah.
Okay.
Are you at all a collector?
Leslie Hickle (02:30):
I have a few cars, but they're mostly just
ones that I, uh, that I like.
For instance, I still have myfirst car that I ever bought
with my own money and it a'73Karmann Ghia Convertible.
Mitchell Denton (02:42):
Oh that's cool.
Leslie Hickle (02:43):
Second owner on it.
It's not really anenvironmentally friendly car.
Those air cool engines, butmakes me happy and I don't drive
it very much and I offset itwith hybrids.
Right?
The carbon footprint.
So hopefully, uh, that'll,that'll help people understand
Volkswagens.
Mitchell Denton (03:02):
Yeah.
Well, before we go down acomplete path of Car talk, let's
talk farm to fork.
So, you told us that you workfor FarmSense, but would you
mind telling us a little bitabout your innovative technology
and how it works?
Leslie Hickle (03:16):
So FarmSense is a spin out, outta UC Riverside,
and really the foundationtechnology is based on a spy
movie that Eamonn, Dr.
Keogh saw.
And if you think about it, it'snot really James Bond it's, it's
better than James Bond, althoughM had some really cool
technology.
It goes back to real lifeincident.
(03:36):
This technology invented by aRussian scientist called Leon
Theremin.
And, and there's an instrumentcalled the Theremin also that he
invented, but his technology isa passive one where he had a
membrane type of device that wasembedded into a gift that the
Russian Ambassador gave to theUS Ambassador in Russia.
(03:58):
And when the Russians wouldshine a radio frequency on this
membrane that was hidden in thisgreat seal of the United States.
The membrane had been picking upvibrations from, from
conversations that the Americanswere having.
So, this is called the thing, ifyou look it up in literature and
(04:20):
the thing, or it's also knownas, the Great Seal Bug was
probably the first incidence ofreal spy technology, but it was
a passive device that used, uh,radiofrequency, probably the
predecessor RFID today.
And that's how Eamonn got theidea of using optical pulses
(04:41):
that created a pattern ofacoustic pulses that you can
analyse.
And so what happens is oursensors have an optical curtain
that the insects fly through,and this optical curtain catches
these signals, and when it'scombined with other data, it
turns out to be the fingerprintof that insect.
(05:02):
So you can put this sensoranywhere in the world once it's
trained to recognise thatinsect, and you'll be able to
see it.
And the other thing is you canput multiple lures in this
sensor and see multiple insectspecies.
So it's just an amazingtechnology and I first saw it
when they presented it at aproof of concept at UC
Riverside, which is my almamater.
(05:25):
And there's a lot of us moreseasoned entrepreneurs that have
been going back to our almamaters and mentoring students
and faculty.
And for me, it was an epiphanybecause I had been weaned on
sticky cards.
Those miserable cards that youhave, stick'em all over.
Right?
And you put'em in these littletraps and then you count dead
(05:45):
insects a week to 10 days orwhenever you get back there.
So it was a start of monitoringinsects in the field, but nobody
was going to sit in the field24/7 and really driving around
counting bugs every week is notsomething you look forward to in
a career choice.
So we build these great models.
(06:06):
To try and estimate populationsof pests in the field, but we
couldn't populate'em with realtime data.
So they sat dormant for manyyears.
In fact, I think it's only untilrecently that we've got
technology that allows us tostart building these models in
real time.
So that's the background of howI met Eamonn and Shailendra was
(06:27):
at, was at this meeting oncampus at UC Riverside, and
thinking it could really help uscreate an IPM program, that
would work.
Mitchell Denton (06:35):
Yeah.
Wow.
So FarmSense's flight sensortechnology is built on the back
end of Cold War espionage?
That's, um,
Leslie Hickle (06:44):
Yes.
That's a great story.
But it's true.
Mitchell Denton (06:48):
Yeah.
No, that's great.
Leslie Hickle (06:49):
Talk to Eamonn, cause he, he is the genius
behind the original thought.
And then Shailendra, ourco-founder, is the wizard that
put the whole thing together sothat it's usable.
Cause when Eamonn built it, itwas the size of several shoe
boxes and it needed a carbattery.
And if you look at what we havetoday, it's a four by six by six
(07:13):
device that hangs in the field.
And the battery is a tinybattery with a solar panel and
it lasts uh, literally it'lllast four or five years with the
solar panel, and all you have todo is change the lures that are
in it.
No more sticky cards.
So, Shailendra is also an expertin wireless.
So our data is literallyavailable 24/7.
(07:36):
It's, it can be a text message,our app, you can program it.
If you wanna know exactly whenyour insects are, are flying and
you want an alert, it'll wakeyou up at three in the morning.
And say you have Moths flying infield number seven, right?
It's, uh, it's, it's prettyneat.
It's a web-based app.
Mitchell Denton (07:56):
That's really cool.
You mentioned sticky cardsalready, but are there multiple
forms and approaches to pestmanagement and how does
FarmSense kind of match up tothose?
Leslie Hickle (08:06):
Yes, there are multiple forms, but pest
management, if we talk aboutintegrate pest management, which
by the way has been a conceptsince 1939, so we've been
talking about it for eightdecades.
But it all starts withunderstanding what's happening
on your farm, and managing pestscomes down to monitoring in real
time, understanding where theirharbourage is.
(08:29):
Cause a lot of times it's farmsanitation that will help
prevent new populations.
And then understanding theeconomic impact of that pest on
that crop.
So for instance, we've said inNaval Orange Worm on Almonds.
there's multiple generations,but you may not wanna treat all
of them if the price of Almondsis a$1.40 a pound, right?
(08:51):
But if it's$2.40 a pound, you'regonna pay much more attention to
it.
So it comes back tounderstanding the true economic
threshold for that pest on thatcrop, and that's what AI allows
you to do.
We're a big data AI machinelearning company, and it's a
little confusing right now,we're in transition in Ag
(09:12):
because nobody knows how to usebig data.
But when you think about it, AIallows you to do three things.
It clearly defines the problemtoday, so it's descriptive,
right?
And then because you'recollecting real-time data and
you've got these models, itallows you to predict.
But prediction is only as goodas what it allows you to do.
(09:36):
So the end use for AI isprescription, and that's where
our journey is headed.
We wanna be able to provide thegrower with risk probability
analysis for different types oftreatments, that he or she has a
choice of and reflect hiseconomic returns because in the
(09:58):
end, the grower has to makemoney, right?
And I think people forget aboutit sometimes with some of these
new technologies, which arereally expensive.
But in the end, the grower hasto make money, he or she has to
produce a good crop, and it hasto make sense.
And the irony of it all is thatwe're developing new product.
(10:19):
These new active ingredients,they're expensive, they tend to
be more stage specific.
In other words, we're losing thebroad spectrum pesticides of the
fifties, sixties, and seventies.
And these new ones tend to beproducts that target maybe
adults, the pheromonedisruption, or they target the
feeding stages or immaturelarvae, or they target the eggs,
(10:45):
right?
Or they target some otherbehaviour, and you really need
to pinpoint what stage ofpopulation your pests are in, in
order to use these compounds.
So gone is the heyday of ourbroad spectrum, you know, DBT
type compounds, and we'reushering in much more target
(11:07):
specific, albeit safer materialsto use.
And actually Mother Naturealready did this, you know,
before we got into these bigbroad acreages, these small
acreages oftentimes could managepests if they encourage the
development of beneficials whoare already out there, and
that's one of our hopes as well,right?
(11:29):
So right now we're targetingpests because that's what's on
the grower's mind.
But at the end of the day, wewould really like a better
understanding of the totalbiodiversity that's out there.
Both the predators, theparasites, the natural diseases
that all help keep thisenvironment under control.
All be dynamic control.
Mitchell Denton (11:49):
Yeah.
Okay.
So we've been talking a wholelot about pest management.
I guess I need to ask, how bigof an issue is insect damage on
agricultural productionworldwide?
Leslie Hickle (11:59):
It was shocking to me to find out in a recent
publication from FAO, the Foodand Ag Association, that we are
still losing 20 to 80% ofeverything we produce to pests,
and that's with all the moderntechniques and products that we
have.
So, it's hard to understand whywe still have 800 million or 10%
(12:22):
of the world population going tobed hungry when we're losing 20
to 40% of everything we produce.
I mean, when you think of it, ifwe could just make pest
management a bit more efficient,we could solve that problem
today and it would give us arunway to figure out how we're
gonna produce enough food tofeed the 9.8 billion people in
2050.
(12:44):
So, It's a huge problem and, andI'm talking just pests, right?
Insects that doesn't include allof the production we lose to
diseases and, uh, to weed, poorweed control, or rodents or
mollusk or all these other peststhat are out there.
Mitchell Denton (13:00):
Hmm.
Wow.
So then what would you say isthe biggest challenge your team
has encountered so far with yourinnovative product and how have
you overcome it, or at least arelooking to overcome it?
Leslie Hickle (13:11):
It is a challenge.
It's the first time in my careerand I've done multiple startups
that we actually had a productthat worked from the beginning,
right?
Very high tech product.
It worked.
But we are at this nexus of bigdata, AI, which is very
progressive, very fast.
You have million dollar revenuestreams in six months.
(13:32):
You can debug in air conditionedoffices to our other industry,
agriculture, which istraditionally conservative.
You get one bite of the apple ayear, right?
And many of these crops, youcannot debug in air conditioned
offices.
You actually have to get dirtyand every crop, every year is
(13:53):
different.
So this is the transition thatall your IoT companies and your
robot companies we're alldealing with this because
growers also expect that thesetechnologies will be cheaper.
Because they save labour, theysave time, they give
information.
But in fact, the way we look atit is that by implementing them,
(14:16):
you are going to save costs inthe future.
They're not gonna be cheapertoday, but they will save you
money in the future.
So that is our biggestchallenge, uh, as an industry,
is how do you value companiesand technologies that are the
future for your industry?
But, uh we really may not knowhow to use'em all right now.
Mitchell Denton (14:39):
Absolutely.
Continuing this thought, duringyour time working in AgTech,
what have you found to be thebiggest surprise or revelation
in the industry?
Leslie Hickle (14:49):
I think people would be surprised at how
progressive Ag tech is, howprogressive farmers are.
You know, we think of them asconservative because they're
producing food and they have tobe careful and they have to
protect their crop.
But you know, if you have newtechnology and it works, they
can be rapid adopters.
However, they're also your worstcritics because if you don't
(15:11):
have something that works, theyhave very long memories.
So I think people would besurprised at how progressive Ag
is, and especially specialty Ag.
Mitchell Denton (15:21):
Yeah, I agree.
I've found that a lot ofsuppliers are open and willing
to kind of take on new forms oftechnology and look into
regenerative practices and allthose types of things.
They, they really aren't theseold guys in overalls out in the
back of nowhere that have nointerest in updating and
changing their practices.
So, I agree a hundred percent.
Leslie Hickle (15:42):
Yeah.
And, and even in third worldcountries, Mitch, I mean, in
some ways they're even moreprogressive because they're all
connected by cell phones, right?
And their smaller acreages andtheir farming communities and
they're funded by theircountries who are trying to
become more sustainable in theircrops they produce for their
(16:04):
people.
So, I think Ag worldwide ispretty progressive.
Mitchell Denton (16:08):
So obviously the problem that you're tackling
is a lot more at the forefrontof the food supply chain, but I
guess I just wanna ask you, arethere any other big pain points
or blind spots in the foodindustry that you think the
industry really needs to befocusing on?
Leslie Hickle (16:23):
There are two, I think we really need to educate
the consumer as to where foodcomes from and we destroy so
much food because of cosmeticdamage, right?
There's silvering on thisorange, it's a perfectly good
orange, but cosmetically, it'sdowngraded and sometimes even
discarded.
And it's because we've educatedthe consumer to want a perfect
(16:44):
orange.
I think there's more and moredistance between where food
comes from and the shopper inthe supermarket.
So I think that's one area thatthe industry has to address.
The other one is we're moving inthe direction of too much
information.
So we come from not enoughinformation to all of a sudden
(17:07):
we're bombarding the, thisfarmer with too much
information.
And some of it is not peerreviewed, there's no filter on
some of it.
Think of a funnel, right?
And all the decisions that agrower has to make, all these
different data points are comingin and theres not a way to
integrate it.
(17:28):
And that's what these farmmanagement systems are trying to
develop now, they're trying tointegrate all this information
so that a grower can digest it.
And I think it's an admirabletask, but at the same time, it
has to be customised for thatparticular grower.
They're still very independent,some of them are still have
small acreage, their familyfarms.
(17:49):
They're gonna make a differentdecision, than the big guys.
So we think that the directionis going to be toward more
integrated data and as a insectcompany, we're also interested
in health, the trees and water,because that changes the whole
spectrum sometimes of your pestpopulation and also the economic
(18:12):
damage that a tree willtolerate.
So we're interested in otherdata inputs that will help the
grower make better informeddecisions.
Mitchell Denton (18:22):
Yeah.
So to continue this thought,you've talked about other data
inputs beyond insects.
Where is your future researchgoing towards?
Leslie Hickle (18:31):
We are focusing on insects.
Worldwide, there are enough tokeep us busy for a long time and
at the same time we have aninterest in microclimate and
macroclimate influences oninsect populations and crop
phenology.
So we are really focused onbugs, it's what we know best, we
(18:52):
build sensors for it.
As an aside, we have some ideas,and also monitoring for disease
which is the other pest that,uh, has a huge impact on pre and
post harvest crops.
So we're gonna stay there.
We're gonna focus there.
We'll, we'll build out oursystem to work with any others.
(19:13):
So people who want to use ourdata and our models are welcome
to.
Our API is very robust.
We, we would like everybody tomonitor.
Essentially that's what thissensor does.
It takes the guesswork out,right?
Mitchell Denton (19:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Leslie Hickle (19:28):
The reason broad spectrums was used, and they're
still used today, is because youcan treat and you have a, you
know, a plus or minus weekwindow to guess, right?
But with these new targetedmaterials, you don't have that
luxury, but you can't guessanymore.
You can't go on a scheduledspray, you just don't have the
products that allow you to dothat.
So we wanna take some of thatguesswork out.
Mitchell Denton (19:50):
Yeah.
Great.
So then is there a particulargroup or innovation within the
industry that you're excitedlykeeping a watchful eye on?
Leslie Hickle (19:57):
We love robots.
So, we just attended the firstNorth American conference on
agricultural robots, it was heldin Fresno last week.
Had almost a thousand attendeesfrom 28 countries.
And of course, labour is thenumber one issue right now in
agriculture so most of theserobots are all targeting those
(20:21):
labour intensive efforts inorchard management or field
management, weeding, those kindof things.
But, you know, our IoT sensorsaren't that far away.
Eamonn and Shailendra tells mewhen they start at, when our
starts articulating, we can callit a robot, right now it's
autonomous.
So we're watching the robotindustry and then we're also
(20:42):
watching pretty closely what FAOand WHO are doing because they
are linking the world with someof their incentives and
unifying, I think some of theefforts and how to address these
pests on an area wide basis.
Mitchell Denton (20:54):
No, that's great.
I mean, chances are we may haveinterviewed some of the people
you've been running into atthese conferences we're, we're
big fans of robots here atPostHarvest too, so...
Leslie Hickle (21:04):
Yeah, there's a bunch of, uh, Aussies there.
Mitchell Denton (21:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
What's one thing you wish youhad known when you began your
career in developing pestmanagement technology?
Leslie Hickle (21:14):
Well, I think the one thing I tell everybody to do
is take a business and financecourse because it's all about
the money.
I, I'm matriculated as atraditional scientist.
I love science, new technology,but it took me a while to, uh,
figure out that to pay for a newtechnology, it has to make
money.
So I, I would advise allstudents, I do advise all
(21:38):
students to take business and,and finance courses in their
coursework.
Mitchell Denton (21:43):
Yeah, and to add to what you were saying
before about FAO and WHO and allthose types of organisations.
There's a lot of governmentincentives, with grants and
awards within FoodTech andAgTech.
And I mean, we found forourselves personally, applying
for those types of things hasbeen greatly beneficial in what
(22:04):
you're saying about, at the endof the day, providing a service
that can actually make money,you know?
But, uh, that's really cool.
So unfortunately, Leslie, we arecoming to a close, but before we
do, I just wanna ask, what isthe main point you really want
the listeners to take away fromthis episode?
Leslie Hickle (22:21):
I would like your listeners, hopefully there'll be
some people who aren't farmers,but to understand that farming
is dynamic and it'sever-evolving.
It is an enterprise, it'sprogressive, but farmers, they
all know to practice goodfarming techniques, they're,
they're not just sprayingbecause spraying is expensive.
(22:43):
They are paying attention morethan they used to because they
have to, and they're veryresponsive.
So that's how I'm thinking rightnow, cause I think farmers get a
bad rap a lot of times.
Mitchell Denton (22:55):
No, I agree.
I think that's a good point toleave it on.
Well, that's all for today'sepisode and"Let's Talk Farm to
Fork".
Thanks for listening and thankyou, Leslie, for joining me
today.
Leslie Hickle (23:05):
Thanks, Mitch.
I enjoyed talking with you.
Mitchell Denton (23:07):
If you'd like to know more about Leslie and
FarmSense, check out the link inthe description of this episode.
Make sure to subscribe to thepodcast so that you never miss
an episode, and don't forget toleave a review and share with
your friends.
Until next time, you've beenlistening to"Let's Talk Farm to
Fork", a PostHarvest podcast.
Voiceover (23:23):
We appreciate you joining us for this episode of
let's talk, farm to fork, besure to rate, review and
subscribe.
Also, if you would like to learnmore about how you can
practically play your part inmaximizing fruit and vegetable
supplies, whether you're asupplier, consumer, or anyone in
between the farm to forkjourney, visit PostHarvest.Com
(23:46):
and try out their free onlinecourse library today.
Welcome to let's talk farm to fork, the PostHarvest
podcast that interviews people,making an impact in the fresh
produce sector.
We'll take a deep dive into whatthey do and find out how they're
helping to reduce the amount offood lost or wasted along the
farm to fork journey.
But before we get started, didyou know that according to the
(00:23):
UN's food and agricultureorganisation, around 45% of the
world's fruits and vegetables goto waste each year?
If you would like to learn moreabout how you can practically
play your part in maximisingfruit and vegetable supplies,
whether you're a part of theindustry or simply a consumer
visit PostHarvest.Com and tryout their free online course
(00:45):
library today.
Now time for your host MitchellDenton.
Mitchell Denton (00:50):
Hello and welcome to"Let's Talk Farm to
Fork".
The PostHarvest podcastinterviews people of interest
across the food supply chain.
Today on our show, I'm joined byLeslie Hickle from FarmSense.
Who I'll be talking to about howher pest management technology
is helping reduce crop damageand increase fresh produce
supplies.
So with no further delays, let'sget started.
(01:13):
Well, good morning, Leslie.
Thanks for joining me on thepodcast.
How are you?
Leslie Hickle (01:17):
I'm great, Mitch.
Thanks for inviting me.
How are you today?
Mitchell Denton (01:21):
I'm doing really well, thanks.
But before we get into it, I wasjust wondering if you'd be able
to tell us a little bit aboutyourself and what you do and
maybe a fun fact about yourself.
Leslie Hickle (01:31):
Yeah, I'm really just a eternal optimist who
loves nature.
I ended up studying pestmanagement and pesticide
toxicology at UC Riverside.
But I really wanted to be anautomotive engineer in race cars
cause my dad's an automotiveengineer.
But...
Mitchell Denton (01:47):
Wow.
Leslie Hickle (01:48):
No such luck that time.
So instead I studied bugs and,uh, have never looked back.
Mother nature is alwaysproviding a new challenge.
Mitchell Denton (02:01):
Yeah wow.
What was the turning point, fromlooking at motors to looking at
insects?
Leslie Hickle (02:06):
I think it was because, uh, most colleges and
universities at the time weren'tlooking at, uh, women as being
in those disciplines.
But to this day, my favouritesport is NHRA, which is the
National Hot Rod Association andMoto GP, I don't know if you
follow those two sports, butthey're fast bikes and fast
cars.
Mitchell Denton (02:27):
Yeah.
Okay.
Are you at all a collector?
Leslie Hickle (02:30):
I have a few cars, but they're mostly just
ones that I, uh, that I like.
For instance, I still have myfirst car that I ever bought
with my own money and it a'73Karmann Ghia Convertible.
Mitchell Denton (02:42):
Oh that's cool.
Leslie Hickle (02:43):
Second owner on it.
It's not really anenvironmentally friendly car.
Those air cool engines, butmakes me happy and I don't drive
it very much and I offset itwith hybrids.
Right?
The carbon footprint.
So hopefully, uh, that'll,that'll help people understand
Volkswagens.
Mitchell Denton (03:02):
Yeah.
Well, before we go down acomplete path of Car talk, let's
talk farm to fork.
So, you told us that you workfor FarmSense, but would you
mind telling us a little bitabout your innovative technology
and how it works?
Leslie Hickle (03:16):
So FarmSense is a spin out, outta UC Riverside,
and really the foundationtechnology is based on a spy
movie that Eamonn, Dr.
Keogh saw.
And if you think about it, it'snot really James Bond it's, it's
better than James Bond, althoughM had some really cool
technology.
It goes back to real lifeincident.
(03:36):
This technology invented by aRussian scientist called Leon
Theremin.
And, and there's an instrumentcalled the Theremin also that he
invented, but his technology isa passive one where he had a
membrane type of device that wasembedded into a gift that the
Russian Ambassador gave to theUS Ambassador in Russia.
(03:58):
And when the Russians wouldshine a radio frequency on this
membrane that was hidden in thisgreat seal of the United States.
The membrane had been picking upvibrations from, from
conversations that the Americanswere having.
So, this is called the thing, ifyou look it up in literature and
(04:20):
the thing, or it's also knownas, the Great Seal Bug was
probably the first incidence ofreal spy technology, but it was
a passive device that used, uh,radiofrequency, probably the
predecessor RFID today.
And that's how Eamonn got theidea of using optical pulses
(04:41):
that created a pattern ofacoustic pulses that you can
analyse.
And so what happens is oursensors have an optical curtain
that the insects fly through,and this optical curtain catches
these signals, and when it'scombined with other data, it
turns out to be the fingerprintof that insect.
(05:02):
So you can put this sensoranywhere in the world once it's
trained to recognise thatinsect, and you'll be able to
see it.
And the other thing is you canput multiple lures in this
sensor and see multiple insectspecies.
So it's just an amazingtechnology and I first saw it
when they presented it at aproof of concept at UC
Riverside, which is my almamater.
(05:25):
And there's a lot of us moreseasoned entrepreneurs that have
been going back to our almamaters and mentoring students
and faculty.
And for me, it was an epiphanybecause I had been weaned on
sticky cards.
Those miserable cards that youhave, stick'em all over.
Right?
And you put'em in these littletraps and then you count dead
(05:45):
insects a week to 10 days orwhenever you get back there.
So it was a start of monitoringinsects in the field, but nobody
was going to sit in the field24/7 and really driving around
counting bugs every week is notsomething you look forward to in
a career choice.
So we build these great models.
(06:06):
To try and estimate populationsof pests in the field, but we
couldn't populate'em with realtime data.
So they sat dormant for manyyears.
In fact, I think it's only untilrecently that we've got
technology that allows us tostart building these models in
real time.
So that's the background of howI met Eamonn and Shailendra was
(06:27):
at, was at this meeting oncampus at UC Riverside, and
thinking it could really help uscreate an IPM program, that
would work.
Mitchell Denton (06:35):
Yeah.
Wow.
So FarmSense's flight sensortechnology is built on the back
end of Cold War espionage?
That's, um,
Leslie Hickle (06:44):
Yes.
That's a great story.
But it's true.
Mitchell Denton (06:48):
Yeah.
No, that's great.
Leslie Hickle (06:49):
Talk to Eamonn, cause he, he is the genius
behind the original thought.
And then Shailendra, ourco-founder, is the wizard that
put the whole thing together sothat it's usable.
Cause when Eamonn built it, itwas the size of several shoe
boxes and it needed a carbattery.
And if you look at what we havetoday, it's a four by six by six
(07:13):
device that hangs in the field.
And the battery is a tinybattery with a solar panel and
it lasts uh, literally it'lllast four or five years with the
solar panel, and all you have todo is change the lures that are
in it.
No more sticky cards.
So, Shailendra is also an expertin wireless.
So our data is literallyavailable 24/7.
(07:36):
It's, it can be a text message,our app, you can program it.
If you wanna know exactly whenyour insects are, are flying and
you want an alert, it'll wakeyou up at three in the morning.
And say you have Moths flying infield number seven, right?
It's, uh, it's, it's prettyneat.
It's a web-based app.
Mitchell Denton (07:56):
That's really cool.
You mentioned sticky cardsalready, but are there multiple
forms and approaches to pestmanagement and how does
FarmSense kind of match up tothose?
Leslie Hickle (08:06):
Yes, there are multiple forms, but pest
management, if we talk aboutintegrate pest management, which
by the way has been a conceptsince 1939, so we've been
talking about it for eightdecades.
But it all starts withunderstanding what's happening
on your farm, and managing pestscomes down to monitoring in real
time, understanding where theirharbourage is.
(08:29):
Cause a lot of times it's farmsanitation that will help
prevent new populations.
And then understanding theeconomic impact of that pest on
that crop.
So for instance, we've said inNaval Orange Worm on Almonds.
there's multiple generations,but you may not wanna treat all
of them if the price of Almondsis a$1.40 a pound, right?
(08:51):
But if it's$2.40 a pound, you'regonna pay much more attention to
it.
So it comes back tounderstanding the true economic
threshold for that pest on thatcrop, and that's what AI allows
you to do.
We're a big data AI machinelearning company, and it's a
little confusing right now,we're in transition in Ag
(09:12):
because nobody knows how to usebig data.
But when you think about it, AIallows you to do three things.
It clearly defines the problemtoday, so it's descriptive,
right?
And then because you'recollecting real-time data and
you've got these models, itallows you to predict.
But prediction is only as goodas what it allows you to do.
(09:36):
So the end use for AI isprescription, and that's where
our journey is headed.
We wanna be able to provide thegrower with risk probability
analysis for different types oftreatments, that he or she has a
choice of and reflect hiseconomic returns because in the
(09:58):
end, the grower has to makemoney, right?
And I think people forget aboutit sometimes with some of these
new technologies, which arereally expensive.
But in the end, the grower hasto make money, he or she has to
produce a good crop, and it hasto make sense.
And the irony of it all is thatwe're developing new product.
(10:19):
These new active ingredients,they're expensive, they tend to
be more stage specific.
In other words, we're losing thebroad spectrum pesticides of the
fifties, sixties, and seventies.
And these new ones tend to beproducts that target maybe
adults, the pheromonedisruption, or they target the
feeding stages or immaturelarvae, or they target the eggs,
(10:45):
right?
Or they target some otherbehaviour, and you really need
to pinpoint what stage ofpopulation your pests are in, in
order to use these compounds.
So gone is the heyday of ourbroad spectrum, you know, DBT
type compounds, and we'reushering in much more target
(11:07):
specific, albeit safer materialsto use.
And actually Mother Naturealready did this, you know,
before we got into these bigbroad acreages, these small
acreages oftentimes could managepests if they encourage the
development of beneficials whoare already out there, and
that's one of our hopes as well,right?
(11:29):
So right now we're targetingpests because that's what's on
the grower's mind.
But at the end of the day, wewould really like a better
understanding of the totalbiodiversity that's out there.
Both the predators, theparasites, the natural diseases
that all help keep thisenvironment under control.
All be dynamic control.
Mitchell Denton (11:49):
Yeah.
Okay.
So we've been talking a wholelot about pest management.
I guess I need to ask, how bigof an issue is insect damage on
agricultural productionworldwide?
Leslie Hickle (11:59):
It was shocking to me to find out in a recent
publication from FAO, the Foodand Ag Association, that we are
still losing 20 to 80% ofeverything we produce to pests,
and that's with all the moderntechniques and products that we
have.
So, it's hard to understand whywe still have 800 million or 10%
(12:22):
of the world population going tobed hungry when we're losing 20
to 40% of everything we produce.
I mean, when you think of it, ifwe could just make pest
management a bit more efficient,we could solve that problem
today and it would give us arunway to figure out how we're
gonna produce enough food tofeed the 9.8 billion people in
2050.
(12:44):
So, It's a huge problem and, andI'm talking just pests, right?
Insects that doesn't include allof the production we lose to
diseases and, uh, to weed, poorweed control, or rodents or
mollusk or all these other peststhat are out there.
Mitchell Denton (13:00):
Hmm.
Wow.
So then what would you say isthe biggest challenge your team
has encountered so far with yourinnovative product and how have
you overcome it, or at least arelooking to overcome it?
Leslie Hickle (13:11):
It is a challenge.
It's the first time in my careerand I've done multiple startups
that we actually had a productthat worked from the beginning,
right?
Very high tech product.
It worked.
But we are at this nexus of bigdata, AI, which is very
progressive, very fast.
You have million dollar revenuestreams in six months.
(13:32):
You can debug in air conditionedoffices to our other industry,
agriculture, which istraditionally conservative.
You get one bite of the apple ayear, right?
And many of these crops, youcannot debug in air conditioned
offices.
You actually have to get dirtyand every crop, every year is
(13:53):
different.
So this is the transition thatall your IoT companies and your
robot companies we're alldealing with this because
growers also expect that thesetechnologies will be cheaper.
Because they save labour, theysave time, they give
information.
But in fact, the way we look atit is that by implementing them,
(14:16):
you are going to save costs inthe future.
They're not gonna be cheapertoday, but they will save you
money in the future.
So that is our biggestchallenge, uh, as an industry,
is how do you value companiesand technologies that are the
future for your industry?
But, uh we really may not knowhow to use'em all right now.
Mitchell Denton (14:39):
Absolutely.
Continuing this thought, duringyour time working in AgTech,
what have you found to be thebiggest surprise or revelation
in the industry?
Leslie Hickle (14:49):
I think people would be surprised at how
progressive Ag tech is, howprogressive farmers are.
You know, we think of them asconservative because they're
producing food and they have tobe careful and they have to
protect their crop.
But you know, if you have newtechnology and it works, they
can be rapid adopters.
However, they're also your worstcritics because if you don't
(15:11):
have something that works, theyhave very long memories.
So I think people would besurprised at how progressive Ag
is, and especially specialty Ag.
Mitchell Denton (15:21):
Yeah, I agree.
I've found that a lot ofsuppliers are open and willing
to kind of take on new forms oftechnology and look into
regenerative practices and allthose types of things.
They, they really aren't theseold guys in overalls out in the
back of nowhere that have nointerest in updating and
changing their practices.
So, I agree a hundred percent.
Leslie Hickle (15:42):
Yeah.
And, and even in third worldcountries, Mitch, I mean, in
some ways they're even moreprogressive because they're all
connected by cell phones, right?
And their smaller acreages andtheir farming communities and
they're funded by theircountries who are trying to
become more sustainable in theircrops they produce for their
(16:04):
people.
So, I think Ag worldwide ispretty progressive.
Mitchell Denton (16:08):
So obviously the problem that you're tackling
is a lot more at the forefrontof the food supply chain, but I
guess I just wanna ask you, arethere any other big pain points
or blind spots in the foodindustry that you think the
industry really needs to befocusing on?
Leslie Hickle (16:23):
There are two, I think we really need to educate
the consumer as to where foodcomes from and we destroy so
much food because of cosmeticdamage, right?
There's silvering on thisorange, it's a perfectly good
orange, but cosmetically, it'sdowngraded and sometimes even
discarded.
And it's because we've educatedthe consumer to want a perfect
(16:44):
orange.
I think there's more and moredistance between where food
comes from and the shopper inthe supermarket.
So I think that's one area thatthe industry has to address.
The other one is we're moving inthe direction of too much
information.
So we come from not enoughinformation to all of a sudden
(17:07):
we're bombarding the, thisfarmer with too much
information.
And some of it is not peerreviewed, there's no filter on
some of it.
Think of a funnel, right?
And all the decisions that agrower has to make, all these
different data points are comingin and theres not a way to
integrate it.
(17:28):
And that's what these farmmanagement systems are trying to
develop now, they're trying tointegrate all this information
so that a grower can digest it.
And I think it's an admirabletask, but at the same time, it
has to be customised for thatparticular grower.
They're still very independent,some of them are still have
small acreage, their familyfarms.
(17:49):
They're gonna make a differentdecision, than the big guys.
So we think that the directionis going to be toward more
integrated data and as a insectcompany, we're also interested
in health, the trees and water,because that changes the whole
spectrum sometimes of your pestpopulation and also the economic
(18:12):
damage that a tree willtolerate.
So we're interested in otherdata inputs that will help the
grower make better informeddecisions.
Mitchell Denton (18:22):
Yeah.
So to continue this thought,you've talked about other data
inputs beyond insects.
Where is your future researchgoing towards?
Leslie Hickle (18:31):
We are focusing on insects.
Worldwide, there are enough tokeep us busy for a long time and
at the same time we have aninterest in microclimate and
macroclimate influences oninsect populations and crop
phenology.
So we are really focused onbugs, it's what we know best, we
(18:52):
build sensors for it.
As an aside, we have some ideas,and also monitoring for disease
which is the other pest that,uh, has a huge impact on pre and
post harvest crops.
So we're gonna stay there.
We're gonna focus there.
We'll, we'll build out oursystem to work with any others.
(19:13):
So people who want to use ourdata and our models are welcome
to.
Our API is very robust.
We, we would like everybody tomonitor.
Essentially that's what thissensor does.
It takes the guesswork out,right?
Mitchell Denton (19:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Leslie Hickle (19:28):
The reason broad spectrums was used, and they're
still used today, is because youcan treat and you have a, you
know, a plus or minus weekwindow to guess, right?
But with these new targetedmaterials, you don't have that
luxury, but you can't guessanymore.
You can't go on a scheduledspray, you just don't have the
products that allow you to dothat.
So we wanna take some of thatguesswork out.
Mitchell Denton (19:50):
Yeah.
Great.
So then is there a particulargroup or innovation within the
industry that you're excitedlykeeping a watchful eye on?
Leslie Hickle (19:57):
We love robots.
So, we just attended the firstNorth American conference on
agricultural robots, it was heldin Fresno last week.
Had almost a thousand attendeesfrom 28 countries.
And of course, labour is thenumber one issue right now in
agriculture so most of theserobots are all targeting those
(20:21):
labour intensive efforts inorchard management or field
management, weeding, those kindof things.
But, you know, our IoT sensorsaren't that far away.
Eamonn and Shailendra tells mewhen they start at, when our
starts articulating, we can callit a robot, right now it's
autonomous.
So we're watching the robotindustry and then we're also
(20:42):
watching pretty closely what FAOand WHO are doing because they
are linking the world with someof their incentives and
unifying, I think some of theefforts and how to address these
pests on an area wide basis.
Mitchell Denton (20:54):
No, that's great.
I mean, chances are we may haveinterviewed some of the people
you've been running into atthese conferences we're, we're
big fans of robots here atPostHarvest too, so...
Leslie Hickle (21:04):
Yeah, there's a bunch of, uh, Aussies there.
Mitchell Denton (21:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
What's one thing you wish youhad known when you began your
career in developing pestmanagement technology?
Leslie Hickle (21:14):
Well, I think the one thing I tell everybody to do
is take a business and financecourse because it's all about
the money.
I, I'm matriculated as atraditional scientist.
I love science, new technology,but it took me a while to, uh,
figure out that to pay for a newtechnology, it has to make
money.
So I, I would advise allstudents, I do advise all
(21:38):
students to take business and,and finance courses in their
coursework.
Mitchell Denton (21:43):
Yeah, and to add to what you were saying
before about FAO and WHO and allthose types of organisations.
There's a lot of governmentincentives, with grants and
awards within FoodTech andAgTech.
And I mean, we found forourselves personally, applying
for those types of things hasbeen greatly beneficial in what
(22:04):
you're saying about, at the endof the day, providing a service
that can actually make money,you know?
But, uh, that's really cool.
So unfortunately, Leslie, we arecoming to a close, but before we
do, I just wanna ask, what isthe main point you really want
the listeners to take away fromthis episode?
Leslie Hickle (22:21):
I would like your listeners, hopefully there'll be
some people who aren't farmers,but to understand that farming
is dynamic and it'sever-evolving.
It is an enterprise, it'sprogressive, but farmers, they
all know to practice goodfarming techniques, they're,
they're not just sprayingbecause spraying is expensive.
(22:43):
They are paying attention morethan they used to because they
have to, and they're veryresponsive.
So that's how I'm thinking rightnow, cause I think farmers get a
bad rap a lot of times.
Mitchell Denton (22:55):
No, I agree.
I think that's a good point toleave it on.
Well, that's all for today'sepisode and"Let's Talk Farm to
Fork".
Thanks for listening and thankyou, Leslie, for joining me
today.
Leslie Hickle (23:05):
Thanks, Mitch.
I enjoyed talking with you.
Mitchell Denton (23:07):
If you'd like to know more about Leslie and
FarmSense, check out the link inthe description of this episode.
Make sure to subscribe to thepodcast so that you never miss
an episode, and don't forget toleave a review and share with
your friends.
Until next time, you've beenlistening to"Let's Talk Farm to
Fork", a PostHarvest podcast.
Voiceover (23:23):
We appreciate you joining us for this episode of
let's talk, farm to fork, besure to rate, review and
subscribe.
Also, if you would like to learnmore about how you can
practically play your part inmaximizing fruit and vegetable
supplies, whether you're asupplier, consumer, or anyone in
between the farm to forkjourney, visit PostHarvest.Com
(23:46):
and try out their free onlinecourse library today.
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