November 8, 2022 • 23 mins
In this episode of "Let's Talk Farm to Fork", we're joined by Nicky Quinn from Aleph Farms, who we will be talking to about how their cellular agriculture platform is developing sustainable protein in the form of cell-cultured meat products.
https://www.aleph-farms.com/
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Voiceover (00:02):
Welcome to let's talk farm to fork, the PostHarvest
podcast that interviews people,making an impact in the fresh
produce sector.
We'll take a deep dive into whatthey do and find out how they're
helping to reduce the amount offood lost or wasted along the
farm to fork journey.
But before we get started, didyou know that according to the
(00:23):
UN's food and agricultureorganisation, around 45% of the
world's fruits and vegetables goto waste each year?
If you would like to learn moreabout how you can practically
play your part in maximisingfruit and vegetable supplies,
whether you're a part of theindustry or simply a consumer
visit PostHarvest.Com and tryout their free online course
(00:45):
library today.
Now time for your host MitchellDenton.
Mitchell Denton (00:50):
Hello and welcome to"Let's Talk Farm to
Fork".
The PostHarvest podcast thatinterviews people of interest
across the food supply chain.
Today on our show, I'm joined byNicky Quinn from Aleph Farms,
who I'll be talking to about howtheir cellular agriculture
platform is developingsustainable protein in the form
of cell-cultured meat products.
So with no further delays, let'sget started.
(01:14):
Hi, Nicky.
Thanks for joining me on thepodcast today.
How are you doing?
Nicky Quinn (01:18):
I'm doing great.
Excited to be here.
Mitchell Denton (01:20):
Oh, great.
Before we begin, I just wantedto give you the chance to
introduce yourself and what youdo, and if you have a little bit
of time, maybe a fun fact aboutyourself.
Nicky Quinn (01:30):
Sure.
My name is Nicky Quinn.
I'm VP Marketing at Aleph Farms,and a fun fact about myself is I
call what I do aestheticactivism, so I like to make the
right things.
Cool.
Mitchell Denton (01:45):
Okay.
Okay.
Can I, can I get an, an exampleof aesthetic, uh...
Nicky Quinn (01:50):
Activism.
Mitchell Denton (01:52):
Yes, please.
If I could get an example.
Nicky Quinn (01:54):
It's basically about using the power of
storytelling and design.
The soft power, meaning thepower it has to attract and to
persuade using it for the powersof good.
Mitchell Denton (02:05):
No, that's great.
Well, on that note, let's talkfarm to fork.
So you've told us briefly whatyou do.
Could you tell us a little bitmore about Aleph Farms and, and
how the vision to developcell-cultured meat products
began?
Nicky Quinn (02:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
So Aleph Farms is a foodtechnology company based in
Israel, um, in a place calledRehovot.
And the company was founded in2017.
It was co-founded by DidierToubia, The Kitchen Hub by
Strauss Group and ProfessorShulamit Levenberg of Technion,
the Israel Institute ofTechnology.
(02:42):
And I think that when it comesto like, the vision for
cultivated meat, I think itfrankly began a long time ago,
right?
Everyone always refers to thatfamous quote from Winston
Churchill about one day escapingthe absurdity of growing an
animal in its entirety and oneday will grow its parts, right?
So I think that the vision forcultivated meat, uh, started
(03:04):
some time ago.
However, for us it began, um,with Professor Shulamit's work
in regenerative medicine,particularly tissue engineering.
Um, she was growing human tissueto treat humans.
Um, and it's a very helpfultechnology, but for very few
people.
And the idea was born,"Well, ifwe can grow well, any mammal's
(03:25):
tissue, then we could growfood." And, and this could help
a lot more people, thistechnology, because the
principles and the technologyare the same.
Mitchell Denton (03:33):
Yeah.
That's great.
Nicky Quinn (03:34):
And thus, Aleph Farms was born.
I think Israel does a great jobof fostering innovation as a
country.
So, there's a FoodTech hubgrowing and thriving in Israel,
and I think it's due in largepart to, um, an ecosystem that's
fostered by the government.
I think that's what you see alot when you, like, even if you
think about a country likeSingapore, where it's the only
(03:54):
place that's approved,cultivated meat for sale, it's,
it's because the government hassort of set this mandate, right?
This 20 by 30 mandate wherethey're gonna grow 30% of their
food locally by 2030.
And a similar environment is,is, is created in Israel in
terms of fostering partnershipsbetween academia, the private
(04:16):
sector, and the public sector.
So I think all of this createdsort of the right environment
for Aleph Farms to be born.
Mitchell Denton (04:25):
Yeah.
Great.
Yeah, we've definitely had a fewguests on the podcast that have
coming out of Israel and there'sdefinitely a lot of innovation
that's taken place there, sothat's really exciting.
Would you mind explaining forthe listeners an
easy-to-understand walkthroughof the process of developing
meat products in labs and howthis will be more sustainable
for producing meat movingforward.
Nicky Quinn (04:46):
Yeah, I think the first thing I'd say is that it's
not being produced in labsanymore.
Um, I think that that's largelya misnomer, um, and that many of
us, including Aleph Farms, isnow scaled to the pilot scale,
um, production and, andproduction facilities, um, that
are much larger than a lab.
But going back to your originalquestion before I corrected it,
(05:08):
which was how this is made.
It's a process that all beginswith an animal, right?
So for us, um, it begins withcow named Lucy.
And she's an Angus cow from abreeding farm in California.
Um, and farmers from around theworld purchase Lucy's fertilised
eggs to use them to improve thequality of their livestock.
(05:28):
And as we were looking for ahigh-quality source of cow
cells, we didn't need to lookany further.
Um, because at Aleph Farms wedon't have plans to raise cows
cause really all we need is aone time collection of Lucy's
fertilised eggs.
And from there we can grow tonsand tons of high quality, tasty,
nutritious, bovine muscle, fat,and collagen without the rest of
(05:49):
the cow.
So for us, it starts with Lucyand once we have her fertilized
eggs, we have an everlastingsupply of cells essentially.
So we grow and freeze and storethese cells in a cell bank.
Um, that's the second step afterLucy.
And this becomes our cell stock.
And I guess for us, why we useda fertilised egg is because
(06:10):
these cells are pluripotent.
Pluripotent literally means"plural potential".
So these are like the cells,like these are the body's raw
materials, they can multiplyindefinitely.
Um, and under the rightconditions they can mature into
any cell type, specialised cell,including the cell types that
comprise meat.
So after that, we grow a lot ofthese cells and we grow them in
(06:33):
what's called a growth tankcalled a cultivator.
Um, and while these cultivatorsaren't cows, they do provide a
temperature-controlled, cleanand closed environment where
cells can thrive.
And in these cultivators, wealso feed the cells and it's
something called cell feed orgrowth media, which contains
everything that the cells needto live and grow.
(06:54):
So things like water, oxygen,nutrients, and growth factors.
Mitchell Denton (06:58):
Mm.
Nicky Quinn (06:58):
And after this step, they mature into the cells
that comprise meat.
And at this point we have lossof cells, millions, and
millions, and millions of cells,um, that are all duplicates of
our starter cells.
And we apply them at this pointafter they've differentiated,
sorry, into muscle fat andcollagen, they're ready to grow
(07:20):
into a steak.
And to provide this structure,we used a plant-based
scaffolding.
And after we apply the cells tothe plant-based scaffolding,
they go back into what's calleda tissue buyer reactor, which I
call going back into the oven ina way.
And then it's finally ready forharvesting, um, and finishing
touches, which include thingslike seasoning and salt.
(07:42):
After this whole process takesabout three or four weeks, and
at the end of our process wehave a steak that's ready to be
cooked and enjoyed.
Mitchell Denton (07:51):
Yeah.
No, that's awesome.
I, I find that meat alternativesand sustainable food options
seem to be markets that arecurrently garnering the
attention of big VC firms.
Uh, in fact, I see that LeonardDiCaprio is even invested in and
playing an active role as amember of your sustainability
board.
Our investment firms attractedto food science because of its
(08:11):
frontier technology aspect, ormore because of its sustainable
outcomes?
Nicky Quinn (08:17):
I think that's a great question and I can't
speak, you know, about all thesequote unquote big VC firms, but
I can talk about ours and I cantell you that for us it's really
important that we have partnersthat share our core values, and
synergies and sustainabilitycommitments.
So stakeholders like meatcorporations, right?
(08:39):
They're many of our investors,they see cultivated meat, you
know, as an opportunity for newproduction streams alongside
their core conventionalproduction.
and as enablers of meeting theircountries or over their
organisations respective ESGgoals.
So I think that it's veryintertwined, at least for our
partners, good business is goodbusiness.
(09:00):
And for us specifically when wethink about who we wanna partner
with and who we wanna bring onboard, um, having these values,
these sustainability values incommon is, is paramount.
Mitchell Denton (09:11):
That's awesome.
So whether it be internal orexternal factors, what would you
say is the biggest challengeAleph Farms has encountered so
far in developing your products?
Nicky Quinn (09:22):
I don't think that the challenges that we face are
really any different than any ofour peers, and I think I'd break
them down into three categories,cost, scale, and mainstream
consumer acceptance.
Mitchell Denton (09:37):
Mm-hmm.
Nicky Quinn (09:37):
Um, so ways that we are addressing that, um, is from
a variety of angles, you know,in terms of cost, I think
because we can't follow throughon our main, our core vision of
helping feed the world unlesswe, you know, achieve price
parity uh with meat.
Um, and for us we'reaccomplishing that in a variety
of ways from developingtechnologies, um, that are
(10:00):
proprietary for large scaleproduction processes, like
including bioprocesses, um, andbioreactors and other key
elements that we've built fromthe ground up.
Um, it also includespartnerships with people that
are helping us produce growthmedia, this is one of the main
contributors to the cost.
So, I do think that cost, scaleand mainstream consumer
(10:21):
acceptance are the biggestchallenges that our industry
will face.
I think that the mainstreamconsumer acceptance is something
I think a lot about as I'm inmarketing.
It's not something that we'llface at first, right?
Because we won't be selling tothe mainstream, mainly due to
the cost of the product.
Um, but I think it's importantthat you think a lot about your
product market fit and makingsure that the early majority of
(10:45):
consumers that you're engagingact as influencers, you know,
I'm not talking about like KimKardashian, but I mean thought
influencers and societyinfluencers that then can
inspire or motivate or, youknow, usher in this movement for
the majority of the rest of thepopulation.
You know, people who are firstto adopt new technologies or
(11:07):
foods, but once they see thingsplay out a little bit, um, with
the right people, then itbecomes something that they're
open to.
And for me, that's really whatI'm focused on as we enter the
market.
Mitchell Denton (11:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
To take things in a differentdirection, one of the first
things among many others thatcaught my attention with Aleph
Farms is your space program,Aleph Zero.
Would you mind expanding on whatthat program entails?
Nicky Quinn (11:31):
Yeah, it excites me too, it's really fun.
well.
I think that, Aleph zero, ourspace program is, is really
connected to our core vision,which is to ensure unconditional
nutrition for anyone, anytime,anywhere.
And I think that there's nobetter place to, you know, vet
(11:52):
that thesis then in space,right?
Um, it really pushes ourprocesses to the brink.
We do wanna support human lifebeing multi-planetary and we
can't get to Mars right nowwithout figuring out how to grow
food in situ.
Um, so cellular agriculture is apotentially a great technology
(12:13):
for a solution there.
Um, but we also learn a lotabout efficiency, um, like I
mentioned about our process, andwe bring those lessons home.
So in a way it serves both ourshort term and long term, um,
endeavors on Earth.
So we like to compare it toFormula One because we're
testing and, and stressing outour technologies in the toughest
(12:35):
environments beforeincorporating them into
mainstream cars, if you will, orour, our procedures here on
Earth.
So, it entails, you know, we'vedone some experiments.
We've done two experiments in2019.
Um, we conducted our firstexperiment in space.
It's when I first startedworking with Aleph actually, and
I just remember being so wowed,um, by that accomplishment.
(12:57):
And we were able to form a 3Dbioprinted muscle tissue.
Mitchell Denton (13:00):
Oh, that's great.
Nicky Quinn (13:01):
Comprising several cell types in space.
Um, yeah, back then it wasactually in, um, I was featured
on SNL.
Mitchell Denton (13:08):
Oh really?
Nicky Quinn (13:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just was like, it's always,it's so fun to see when things
like that sort of pop up inmainstream media.
And people get very excitedabout it.
And recently we also did anotherexperiment as part of Axiom
Mission One or AX-1, um, we wereaboard the SpaceX rocket that
had included cow cells andeverything else that these cells
(13:30):
need to proliferate anddifferentiate.
We call it lab on a chip, and wewere focusing on the first sort
of stages of cell growth and howthe influence of microgravity on
cultivating cells.
So, and we're excited, we'llshare the results of that
experiment maybe in the nextmonth or so.
Mitchell Denton (13:48):
Oh, that's cool.
No, that's really exciting.
Nicky Quinn (13:50):
Yeah, I got to design like the mission patch.
Mitchell Denton (13:52):
Oh, that's great.
Nicky Quinn (13:54):
As part of like the promotion I ended up doing it
and yeah, it's, it's a, a reallyfun program that we have.
Mitchell Denton (14:01):
I love it.
I, I could honestly just talkabout that all day, but...
Nicky Quinn (14:04):
I know!
Mitchell Denton (14:04):
I'll, move on.
Nicky Quinn (14:05):
Aleph Zero is like a gateway drug for Aleph Farms.
Like, this way with my spacecontent, you know.
Mitchell Denton (14:11):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So what has working in foodscience and, and cell-cultured
products revealed to you as thebiggest surprise?
Nicky Quinn (14:20):
I guess like, some people think like, science and
food are like these separatethings, you know?
But they're really not, likescience is, is everywhere in our
food.
I mean, it's nature, right?
Biology is the study of nature.
Um, like think about cooking forexample.
Like, it just, it's, it'schemistry.
Um, so I wouldn't say it'ssurprised me, but it's something
(14:41):
that I've learned along the wayand something that's opened up
my mind and something that'sjust made me love science.
Like I, I wasn't like, Yeah,sure, I took AB bio.
I didn't, but I, I went to aliberal arts school.
I was probably one of like thefirst liberal arts, you know,
graduates to be in cell Ag, youknow, for like non-scientists on
the team.
(15:02):
Um, so it, it's, it'sinteresting to come at it with
that different perspective.
Um, but I love science and Iwish I learned more about it in
school, but I'm glad that I'mhere now and marrying it with
what I love the most too, whichis food and the future.
Mitchell Denton (15:18):
We need you, we need, we need people like you on
the team, you know?
We need that.
We need that perspective, sothat's great.
So then what, in your opinion,represents one of the main
challenges or blind spots in thefight against food loss and
waste?
Nicky Quinn (15:33):
Yeah, I mean we were talking about this before
we started the recording alittle bit and I think what you
guys are doing at PostHarvest isso cool because, I think for me,
in thinking about food waste,you know, it's not something
that Aleph Farms is tacklingspecifically.
Um, although, you know, oursteak is ready to serve, meaning
there are no trimmings, whichchefs really appreciate.
(15:56):
Um, although in many of thekitchens that we have the
pleasure of being in as we workwith chefs like they do sort of
upcycle and repurpose trimmingsof meat, um, and work to avoid
food waste and sort ofreinventing things and making
use of all their expensiveingredients.
Mitchell Denton (16:12):
Yeah.
Nicky Quinn (16:13):
But I guess when I think about some of the main
challenges, I think about humanerror,
Mitchell Denton (16:18):
Mm-hmm.
Nicky Quinn (16:19):
I think about just the lack of time, you know, I've
worked in kitchens myself, um,maybe not investing in the right
initiatives.
Like, many people tend to focuson the aftermath of food waste
as opposed to like what you guysare doing in terms of coming in
at an earlier stage so it can beavoided from the outset.
Mitchell Denton (16:38):
Yeah.
Nicky Quinn (16:39):
And I think like lack of awareness about the
problem.
I think a lot of people don'tknow, you know, just how much
food goes to waste, um, and howto avoid it.
So, um, I think that like yourconsumer education, which is
obviously something that youguys focus on is critical.
Mitchell Denton (16:55):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, I, I, I find thatprevention and, and what you're
talking about is something thatkind of goes a little bit under
the radar.
I mean, as far as the consumer'sconcerned, if they show up to
the grocery store and, and theshelves are all full, they're
not really calculating all theproducts that didn't make it
that far.
So no, I, I agree with you,education and, and preventions
(17:16):
is huge.
Nicky Quinn (17:17):
And like trash is is invisible, like it gets taken
away, we don't see it, we haveno idea, you know, we have no
sense of repercussions of ourdecisions, I think for right now
in the US.
Mitchell Denton (17:29):
Yeah, totally.
No, I, I'd say internationally,but...
Nicky Quinn (17:33):
Yeah, I think there's some people like who
are, might be more aware of itthan others because of where
garbage gets shipped.
But yeah, for the most part Ithink there's a, a lack of
awareness, its definitely achallenge.
Mitchell Denton (17:43):
Yeah, Yeah.
So has the Covid pandemic, forbetter or worse, had any effect
on your day-to-day operations?
Nicky Quinn (17:51):
Gosh, it's crazy how little I, I think about
Covid these days, to be honest.
Um, you know, my day-to-dayoperations as, uh, employee
number one in the US and having,you know, worked remotely for
three years.
No, it hasn't affected me verymuch, um, in that sense.
But no, I mean, there are times,especially in a, well, not that
we're in a lab anymore,essentially, but when you're
(18:13):
producing food, you're workingin close quarters, right?
So I think, when there have beenCovid spikes, yeah, we have to
take turns coming in and onlynon-essential employees.
But like, thank God for Zoom andyou know, we work like, you
know, most hours of the day andnight.
So I think that, you know, we'revery flexible and Israeli people
are very resilient.
Uh, so I don't think there'smuch that will hold us back here
(18:36):
from our mission.
So, yeah.
Mitchell Denton (18:38):
Fantastic.
Is there a particular group orinnovation within the industry
that you're excitedly keeping awatchful eye on?
Nicky Quinn (18:46):
I think there is some innovation happening
upstream with cell media andbringing down the cost, the main
cost drivers there.
Uh, I think it's critical toachieving our mission.
So, for me that's, that's Ithink where we should all keep
our eye on, is looking to bringdown those main cost drivers of
cell media.
Mitchell Denton (19:03):
Yep.
Okay.
So what's one thing you wishshould know when you began your
career in working alongside ateam developing cell-cultured
products?
Nicky Quinn (19:12):
More about biology, I'm like,"Should have gotten a
PhD in that".
No, but seriously, I, I thinkit's really important as a
marketer in this industry tohave a command of your material.
Mitchell Denton (19:25):
Absolutely.
Nicky Quinn (19:26):
It's not something I don't, I have no regrets.
Listen, I've, I've learned aton, I feel really comfortable
and confident.
I think it's really important toknow how to, I focus a lot
actually in my researchpreparing for launch, in, um,
science communications, becauseI think that we all need to do
more of it in our sector.
I think transparency isparamount and learning, you
(19:47):
know, how to walk through thatprocess like I did before and,
and story tell around scienceand make it engaging and
exciting and knowing when topick your moments and when to
talk about it.
And maybe not at the dinnertable, right?
But, um, I Yeah, I think sciencecommunications is a really
interesting topic, so.
Mitchell Denton (20:07):
Definitely.
I mean, to kind of be in thescience world, but not really of
it.
Like, you want to be confidentin what you're saying and be
able to stand tall.
I mean, essentially, you're astoryteller at the end of the
day, and so you want to be ableto tell a story that, that makes
sense to the general public, butalso holds true to the team and
what they're trying toaccomplish.
So...
Nicky Quinn (20:27):
Yeah, it's
Mitchell Denton (20:27):
a bit of a tightrope act there.
So Nicky, we are coming to aclose, but before we do, I just
wanted to ask, what is the majorpoint you really want the
listeners to take away from thisepisode?
Nicky Quinn (20:39):
It's a really exciting time for our industry
and for Aleph Farms.
You know, right now we'reundertaking the first of its
kind, full-scale pilot program.
Um, and we're looking to launchin two key markets in 2023.
And that's fast coming.
So I think that that's somethingI wanna make sure to highlight
is it's really happening.
And that, Aleph, you know, wecontinue to be at the forefront
(21:02):
of the climate conversation.
We didn't talk too much aboutsustainability during this,
well, we talked about food wasteof course, but Aleph Farms'
specific efforts withinsustainability and the climate
conversation.
And, um, we're getting reallyexcited about this year's COP 27
and sponsoring the first foodpavilion at COP, which I think
is just a major milestone, um,in terms of bringing food
(21:26):
systems to the forefront of theclimate conversation.
Um, so that's something down thehorizon for us that I'd love to
share.
And, uh, just that we're havingsome really exciting
conversations with some of theworld's most renowned chefs and
partners.
And we're really excited to bebringing our product to market,
um, as soon as we haveregulatory approval.
Mitchell Denton (21:47):
No, that's exciting.
I'm, I'm gonna keep an eye outfor some of these developments
on the horizon.
Nicky Quinn (21:51):
Yeah.
I mean, you're in Australia.
You can just shoot on up toSingapore.
Mitchell Denton (21:54):
Oh, absolutely.
I'm not just saying this, likethe moment that becomes an
option.
I'm, I'm, I'm all over it.
I'm, I'm making that happen.
Nicky Quinn (22:02):
I'm glad to hear it, I hope you do.
Next to my family and friends,this is all I think about and I
love working towards, um, a longterm vision to and beyond myself
and my lifetime.
And I think that's what thistechnology represents in its
fullest expression.
So, super excited about what'sto come in the short term and
taking this first step to comeinto market and then finally
(22:25):
engaging with diners, but alsojust working towards that
long-term vision that brought mehere many years ago, which is
our vision that has to do withsustainability and food
security.
Mitchell Denton (22:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's great.
It's well put.
Well, that's all for today'sepisode of"Let's Talk Farm to
Fork".
Thanks for listening, and thankyou, Nicky for joining me today.
Nicky Quinn (22:47):
It was my pleasure.
Thanks for having me and Aleph.
Mitchell Denton (22:50):
If you'd like to know more about Nicky and
Aleph Farms, check out the linkin the description of this
episode.
Make sure to subscribe to thepodcast so that you never miss
an episode, and don't forget toleave a review and share with
your friends.
Until next time you've beenlistening to"Let's Talk Farm the
Fork," a PostHarvest podcast.
Voiceover (23:05):
We appreciate you joining us for this episode of
let's talk, farm to fork, besure to rate, review and
subscribe.
Also, if you would like to learnmore about how you can
practically play your part inmaximizing fruit and vegetable
supplies, whether you're asupplier, consumer, or anyone in
between the farm to forkjourney, visit PostHarvest.Com
(23:28):
and try out their free onlinecourse library today.
Welcome to let's talk farm to fork, the PostHarvest
podcast that interviews people,making an impact in the fresh
produce sector.
We'll take a deep dive into whatthey do and find out how they're
helping to reduce the amount offood lost or wasted along the
farm to fork journey.
But before we get started, didyou know that according to the
(00:23):
UN's food and agricultureorganisation, around 45% of the
world's fruits and vegetables goto waste each year?
If you would like to learn moreabout how you can practically
play your part in maximisingfruit and vegetable supplies,
whether you're a part of theindustry or simply a consumer
visit PostHarvest.Com and tryout their free online course
(00:45):
library today.
Now time for your host MitchellDenton.
Mitchell Denton (00:50):
Hello and welcome to"Let's Talk Farm to
Fork".
The PostHarvest podcast thatinterviews people of interest
across the food supply chain.
Today on our show, I'm joined byNicky Quinn from Aleph Farms,
who I'll be talking to about howtheir cellular agriculture
platform is developingsustainable protein in the form
of cell-cultured meat products.
So with no further delays, let'sget started.
(01:14):
Hi, Nicky.
Thanks for joining me on thepodcast today.
How are you doing?
Nicky Quinn (01:18):
I'm doing great.
Excited to be here.
Mitchell Denton (01:20):
Oh, great.
Before we begin, I just wantedto give you the chance to
introduce yourself and what youdo, and if you have a little bit
of time, maybe a fun fact aboutyourself.
Nicky Quinn (01:30):
Sure.
My name is Nicky Quinn.
I'm VP Marketing at Aleph Farms,and a fun fact about myself is I
call what I do aestheticactivism, so I like to make the
right things.
Cool.
Mitchell Denton (01:45):
Okay.
Okay.
Can I, can I get an, an exampleof aesthetic, uh...
Nicky Quinn (01:50):
Activism.
Mitchell Denton (01:52):
Yes, please.
If I could get an example.
Nicky Quinn (01:54):
It's basically about using the power of
storytelling and design.
The soft power, meaning thepower it has to attract and to
persuade using it for the powersof good.
Mitchell Denton (02:05):
No, that's great.
Well, on that note, let's talkfarm to fork.
So you've told us briefly whatyou do.
Could you tell us a little bitmore about Aleph Farms and, and
how the vision to developcell-cultured meat products
began?
Nicky Quinn (02:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
So Aleph Farms is a foodtechnology company based in
Israel, um, in a place calledRehovot.
And the company was founded in2017.
It was co-founded by DidierToubia, The Kitchen Hub by
Strauss Group and ProfessorShulamit Levenberg of Technion,
the Israel Institute ofTechnology.
(02:42):
And I think that when it comesto like, the vision for
cultivated meat, I think itfrankly began a long time ago,
right?
Everyone always refers to thatfamous quote from Winston
Churchill about one day escapingthe absurdity of growing an
animal in its entirety and oneday will grow its parts, right?
So I think that the vision forcultivated meat, uh, started
(03:04):
some time ago.
However, for us it began, um,with Professor Shulamit's work
in regenerative medicine,particularly tissue engineering.
Um, she was growing human tissueto treat humans.
Um, and it's a very helpfultechnology, but for very few
people.
And the idea was born,"Well, ifwe can grow well, any mammal's
(03:25):
tissue, then we could growfood." And, and this could help
a lot more people, thistechnology, because the
principles and the technologyare the same.
Mitchell Denton (03:33):
Yeah.
That's great.
Nicky Quinn (03:34):
And thus, Aleph Farms was born.
I think Israel does a great jobof fostering innovation as a
country.
So, there's a FoodTech hubgrowing and thriving in Israel,
and I think it's due in largepart to, um, an ecosystem that's
fostered by the government.
I think that's what you see alot when you, like, even if you
think about a country likeSingapore, where it's the only
(03:54):
place that's approved,cultivated meat for sale, it's,
it's because the government hassort of set this mandate, right?
This 20 by 30 mandate wherethey're gonna grow 30% of their
food locally by 2030.
And a similar environment is,is, is created in Israel in
terms of fostering partnershipsbetween academia, the private
(04:16):
sector, and the public sector.
So I think all of this createdsort of the right environment
for Aleph Farms to be born.
Mitchell Denton (04:25):
Yeah.
Great.
Yeah, we've definitely had a fewguests on the podcast that have
coming out of Israel and there'sdefinitely a lot of innovation
that's taken place there, sothat's really exciting.
Would you mind explaining forthe listeners an
easy-to-understand walkthroughof the process of developing
meat products in labs and howthis will be more sustainable
for producing meat movingforward.
Nicky Quinn (04:46):
Yeah, I think the first thing I'd say is that it's
not being produced in labsanymore.
Um, I think that that's largelya misnomer, um, and that many of
us, including Aleph Farms, isnow scaled to the pilot scale,
um, production and, andproduction facilities, um, that
are much larger than a lab.
But going back to your originalquestion before I corrected it,
(05:08):
which was how this is made.
It's a process that all beginswith an animal, right?
So for us, um, it begins withcow named Lucy.
And she's an Angus cow from abreeding farm in California.
Um, and farmers from around theworld purchase Lucy's fertilised
eggs to use them to improve thequality of their livestock.
(05:28):
And as we were looking for ahigh-quality source of cow
cells, we didn't need to lookany further.
Um, because at Aleph Farms wedon't have plans to raise cows
cause really all we need is aone time collection of Lucy's
fertilised eggs.
And from there we can grow tonsand tons of high quality, tasty,
nutritious, bovine muscle, fat,and collagen without the rest of
(05:49):
the cow.
So for us, it starts with Lucyand once we have her fertilized
eggs, we have an everlastingsupply of cells essentially.
So we grow and freeze and storethese cells in a cell bank.
Um, that's the second step afterLucy.
And this becomes our cell stock.
And I guess for us, why we useda fertilised egg is because
(06:10):
these cells are pluripotent.
Pluripotent literally means"plural potential".
So these are like the cells,like these are the body's raw
materials, they can multiplyindefinitely.
Um, and under the rightconditions they can mature into
any cell type, specialised cell,including the cell types that
comprise meat.
So after that, we grow a lot ofthese cells and we grow them in
(06:33):
what's called a growth tankcalled a cultivator.
Um, and while these cultivatorsaren't cows, they do provide a
temperature-controlled, cleanand closed environment where
cells can thrive.
And in these cultivators, wealso feed the cells and it's
something called cell feed orgrowth media, which contains
everything that the cells needto live and grow.
(06:54):
So things like water, oxygen,nutrients, and growth factors.
Mitchell Denton (06:58):
Mm.
Nicky Quinn (06:58):
And after this step, they mature into the cells
that comprise meat.
And at this point we have lossof cells, millions, and
millions, and millions of cells,um, that are all duplicates of
our starter cells.
And we apply them at this pointafter they've differentiated,
sorry, into muscle fat andcollagen, they're ready to grow
(07:20):
into a steak.
And to provide this structure,we used a plant-based
scaffolding.
And after we apply the cells tothe plant-based scaffolding,
they go back into what's calleda tissue buyer reactor, which I
call going back into the oven ina way.
And then it's finally ready forharvesting, um, and finishing
touches, which include thingslike seasoning and salt.
(07:42):
After this whole process takesabout three or four weeks, and
at the end of our process wehave a steak that's ready to be
cooked and enjoyed.
Mitchell Denton (07:51):
Yeah.
No, that's awesome.
I, I find that meat alternativesand sustainable food options
seem to be markets that arecurrently garnering the
attention of big VC firms.
Uh, in fact, I see that LeonardDiCaprio is even invested in and
playing an active role as amember of your sustainability
board.
Our investment firms attractedto food science because of its
(08:11):
frontier technology aspect, ormore because of its sustainable
outcomes?
Nicky Quinn (08:17):
I think that's a great question and I can't
speak, you know, about all thesequote unquote big VC firms, but
I can talk about ours and I cantell you that for us it's really
important that we have partnersthat share our core values, and
synergies and sustainabilitycommitments.
So stakeholders like meatcorporations, right?
(08:39):
They're many of our investors,they see cultivated meat, you
know, as an opportunity for newproduction streams alongside
their core conventionalproduction.
and as enablers of meeting theircountries or over their
organisations respective ESGgoals.
So I think that it's veryintertwined, at least for our
partners, good business is goodbusiness.
(09:00):
And for us specifically when wethink about who we wanna partner
with and who we wanna bring onboard, um, having these values,
these sustainability values incommon is, is paramount.
Mitchell Denton (09:11):
That's awesome.
So whether it be internal orexternal factors, what would you
say is the biggest challengeAleph Farms has encountered so
far in developing your products?
Nicky Quinn (09:22):
I don't think that the challenges that we face are
really any different than any ofour peers, and I think I'd break
them down into three categories,cost, scale, and mainstream
consumer acceptance.
Mitchell Denton (09:37):
Mm-hmm.
Nicky Quinn (09:37):
Um, so ways that we are addressing that, um, is from
a variety of angles, you know,in terms of cost, I think
because we can't follow throughon our main, our core vision of
helping feed the world unlesswe, you know, achieve price
parity uh with meat.
Um, and for us we'reaccomplishing that in a variety
of ways from developingtechnologies, um, that are
(10:00):
proprietary for large scaleproduction processes, like
including bioprocesses, um, andbioreactors and other key
elements that we've built fromthe ground up.
Um, it also includespartnerships with people that
are helping us produce growthmedia, this is one of the main
contributors to the cost.
So, I do think that cost, scaleand mainstream consumer
(10:21):
acceptance are the biggestchallenges that our industry
will face.
I think that the mainstreamconsumer acceptance is something
I think a lot about as I'm inmarketing.
It's not something that we'llface at first, right?
Because we won't be selling tothe mainstream, mainly due to
the cost of the product.
Um, but I think it's importantthat you think a lot about your
product market fit and makingsure that the early majority of
(10:45):
consumers that you're engagingact as influencers, you know,
I'm not talking about like KimKardashian, but I mean thought
influencers and societyinfluencers that then can
inspire or motivate or, youknow, usher in this movement for
the majority of the rest of thepopulation.
You know, people who are firstto adopt new technologies or
(11:07):
foods, but once they see thingsplay out a little bit, um, with
the right people, then itbecomes something that they're
open to.
And for me, that's really whatI'm focused on as we enter the
market.
Mitchell Denton (11:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
To take things in a differentdirection, one of the first
things among many others thatcaught my attention with Aleph
Farms is your space program,Aleph Zero.
Would you mind expanding on whatthat program entails?
Nicky Quinn (11:31):
Yeah, it excites me too, it's really fun.
well.
I think that, Aleph zero, ourspace program is, is really
connected to our core vision,which is to ensure unconditional
nutrition for anyone, anytime,anywhere.
And I think that there's nobetter place to, you know, vet
(11:52):
that thesis then in space,right?
Um, it really pushes ourprocesses to the brink.
We do wanna support human lifebeing multi-planetary and we
can't get to Mars right nowwithout figuring out how to grow
food in situ.
Um, so cellular agriculture is apotentially a great technology
(12:13):
for a solution there.
Um, but we also learn a lotabout efficiency, um, like I
mentioned about our process, andwe bring those lessons home.
So in a way it serves both ourshort term and long term, um,
endeavors on Earth.
So we like to compare it toFormula One because we're
testing and, and stressing outour technologies in the toughest
(12:35):
environments beforeincorporating them into
mainstream cars, if you will, orour, our procedures here on
Earth.
So, it entails, you know, we'vedone some experiments.
We've done two experiments in2019.
Um, we conducted our firstexperiment in space.
It's when I first startedworking with Aleph actually, and
I just remember being so wowed,um, by that accomplishment.
(12:57):
And we were able to form a 3Dbioprinted muscle tissue.
Mitchell Denton (13:00):
Oh, that's great.
Nicky Quinn (13:01):
Comprising several cell types in space.
Um, yeah, back then it wasactually in, um, I was featured
on SNL.
Mitchell Denton (13:08):
Oh really?
Nicky Quinn (13:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just was like, it's always,it's so fun to see when things
like that sort of pop up inmainstream media.
And people get very excitedabout it.
And recently we also did anotherexperiment as part of Axiom
Mission One or AX-1, um, we wereaboard the SpaceX rocket that
had included cow cells andeverything else that these cells
(13:30):
need to proliferate anddifferentiate.
We call it lab on a chip, and wewere focusing on the first sort
of stages of cell growth and howthe influence of microgravity on
cultivating cells.
So, and we're excited, we'llshare the results of that
experiment maybe in the nextmonth or so.
Mitchell Denton (13:48):
Oh, that's cool.
No, that's really exciting.
Nicky Quinn (13:50):
Yeah, I got to design like the mission patch.
Mitchell Denton (13:52):
Oh, that's great.
Nicky Quinn (13:54):
As part of like the promotion I ended up doing it
and yeah, it's, it's a, a reallyfun program that we have.
Mitchell Denton (14:01):
I love it.
I, I could honestly just talkabout that all day, but...
Nicky Quinn (14:04):
I know!
Mitchell Denton (14:04):
I'll, move on.
Nicky Quinn (14:05):
Aleph Zero is like a gateway drug for Aleph Farms.
Like, this way with my spacecontent, you know.
Mitchell Denton (14:11):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So what has working in foodscience and, and cell-cultured
products revealed to you as thebiggest surprise?
Nicky Quinn (14:20):
I guess like, some people think like, science and
food are like these separatethings, you know?
But they're really not, likescience is, is everywhere in our
food.
I mean, it's nature, right?
Biology is the study of nature.
Um, like think about cooking forexample.
Like, it just, it's, it'schemistry.
Um, so I wouldn't say it'ssurprised me, but it's something
(14:41):
that I've learned along the wayand something that's opened up
my mind and something that'sjust made me love science.
Like I, I wasn't like, Yeah,sure, I took AB bio.
I didn't, but I, I went to aliberal arts school.
I was probably one of like thefirst liberal arts, you know,
graduates to be in cell Ag, youknow, for like non-scientists on
the team.
(15:02):
Um, so it, it's, it'sinteresting to come at it with
that different perspective.
Um, but I love science and Iwish I learned more about it in
school, but I'm glad that I'mhere now and marrying it with
what I love the most too, whichis food and the future.
Mitchell Denton (15:18):
We need you, we need, we need people like you on
the team, you know?
We need that.
We need that perspective, sothat's great.
So then what, in your opinion,represents one of the main
challenges or blind spots in thefight against food loss and
waste?
Nicky Quinn (15:33):
Yeah, I mean we were talking about this before
we started the recording alittle bit and I think what you
guys are doing at PostHarvest isso cool because, I think for me,
in thinking about food waste,you know, it's not something
that Aleph Farms is tacklingspecifically.
Um, although, you know, oursteak is ready to serve, meaning
there are no trimmings, whichchefs really appreciate.
(15:56):
Um, although in many of thekitchens that we have the
pleasure of being in as we workwith chefs like they do sort of
upcycle and repurpose trimmingsof meat, um, and work to avoid
food waste and sort ofreinventing things and making
use of all their expensiveingredients.
Mitchell Denton (16:12):
Yeah.
Nicky Quinn (16:13):
But I guess when I think about some of the main
challenges, I think about humanerror,
Mitchell Denton (16:18):
Mm-hmm.
Nicky Quinn (16:19):
I think about just the lack of time, you know, I've
worked in kitchens myself, um,maybe not investing in the right
initiatives.
Like, many people tend to focuson the aftermath of food waste
as opposed to like what you guysare doing in terms of coming in
at an earlier stage so it can beavoided from the outset.
Mitchell Denton (16:38):
Yeah.
Nicky Quinn (16:39):
And I think like lack of awareness about the
problem.
I think a lot of people don'tknow, you know, just how much
food goes to waste, um, and howto avoid it.
So, um, I think that like yourconsumer education, which is
obviously something that youguys focus on is critical.
Mitchell Denton (16:55):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, I, I, I find thatprevention and, and what you're
talking about is something thatkind of goes a little bit under
the radar.
I mean, as far as the consumer'sconcerned, if they show up to
the grocery store and, and theshelves are all full, they're
not really calculating all theproducts that didn't make it
that far.
So no, I, I agree with you,education and, and preventions
(17:16):
is huge.
Nicky Quinn (17:17):
And like trash is is invisible, like it gets taken
away, we don't see it, we haveno idea, you know, we have no
sense of repercussions of ourdecisions, I think for right now
in the US.
Mitchell Denton (17:29):
Yeah, totally.
No, I, I'd say internationally,but...
Nicky Quinn (17:33):
Yeah, I think there's some people like who
are, might be more aware of itthan others because of where
garbage gets shipped.
But yeah, for the most part Ithink there's a, a lack of
awareness, its definitely achallenge.
Mitchell Denton (17:43):
Yeah, Yeah.
So has the Covid pandemic, forbetter or worse, had any effect
on your day-to-day operations?
Nicky Quinn (17:51):
Gosh, it's crazy how little I, I think about
Covid these days, to be honest.
Um, you know, my day-to-dayoperations as, uh, employee
number one in the US and having,you know, worked remotely for
three years.
No, it hasn't affected me verymuch, um, in that sense.
But no, I mean, there are times,especially in a, well, not that
we're in a lab anymore,essentially, but when you're
(18:13):
producing food, you're workingin close quarters, right?
So I think, when there have beenCovid spikes, yeah, we have to
take turns coming in and onlynon-essential employees.
But like, thank God for Zoom andyou know, we work like, you
know, most hours of the day andnight.
So I think that, you know, we'revery flexible and Israeli people
are very resilient.
Uh, so I don't think there'smuch that will hold us back here
(18:36):
from our mission.
So, yeah.
Mitchell Denton (18:38):
Fantastic.
Is there a particular group orinnovation within the industry
that you're excitedly keeping awatchful eye on?
Nicky Quinn (18:46):
I think there is some innovation happening
upstream with cell media andbringing down the cost, the main
cost drivers there.
Uh, I think it's critical toachieving our mission.
So, for me that's, that's Ithink where we should all keep
our eye on, is looking to bringdown those main cost drivers of
cell media.
Mitchell Denton (19:03):
Yep.
Okay.
So what's one thing you wishshould know when you began your
career in working alongside ateam developing cell-cultured
products?
Nicky Quinn (19:12):
More about biology, I'm like,"Should have gotten a
PhD in that".
No, but seriously, I, I thinkit's really important as a
marketer in this industry tohave a command of your material.
Mitchell Denton (19:25):
Absolutely.
Nicky Quinn (19:26):
It's not something I don't, I have no regrets.
Listen, I've, I've learned aton, I feel really comfortable
and confident.
I think it's really important toknow how to, I focus a lot
actually in my researchpreparing for launch, in, um,
science communications, becauseI think that we all need to do
more of it in our sector.
I think transparency isparamount and learning, you
(19:47):
know, how to walk through thatprocess like I did before and,
and story tell around scienceand make it engaging and
exciting and knowing when topick your moments and when to
talk about it.
And maybe not at the dinnertable, right?
But, um, I Yeah, I think sciencecommunications is a really
interesting topic, so.
Mitchell Denton (20:07):
Definitely.
I mean, to kind of be in thescience world, but not really of
it.
Like, you want to be confidentin what you're saying and be
able to stand tall.
I mean, essentially, you're astoryteller at the end of the
day, and so you want to be ableto tell a story that, that makes
sense to the general public, butalso holds true to the team and
what they're trying toaccomplish.
So...
Nicky Quinn (20:27):
Yeah, it's
Mitchell Denton (20:27):
a bit of a tightrope act there.
So Nicky, we are coming to aclose, but before we do, I just
wanted to ask, what is the majorpoint you really want the
listeners to take away from thisepisode?
Nicky Quinn (20:39):
It's a really exciting time for our industry
and for Aleph Farms.
You know, right now we'reundertaking the first of its
kind, full-scale pilot program.
Um, and we're looking to launchin two key markets in 2023.
And that's fast coming.
So I think that that's somethingI wanna make sure to highlight
is it's really happening.
And that, Aleph, you know, wecontinue to be at the forefront
(21:02):
of the climate conversation.
We didn't talk too much aboutsustainability during this,
well, we talked about food wasteof course, but Aleph Farms'
specific efforts withinsustainability and the climate
conversation.
And, um, we're getting reallyexcited about this year's COP 27
and sponsoring the first foodpavilion at COP, which I think
is just a major milestone, um,in terms of bringing food
(21:26):
systems to the forefront of theclimate conversation.
Um, so that's something down thehorizon for us that I'd love to
share.
And, uh, just that we're havingsome really exciting
conversations with some of theworld's most renowned chefs and
partners.
And we're really excited to bebringing our product to market,
um, as soon as we haveregulatory approval.
Mitchell Denton (21:47):
No, that's exciting.
I'm, I'm gonna keep an eye outfor some of these developments
on the horizon.
Nicky Quinn (21:51):
Yeah.
I mean, you're in Australia.
You can just shoot on up toSingapore.
Mitchell Denton (21:54):
Oh, absolutely.
I'm not just saying this, likethe moment that becomes an
option.
I'm, I'm, I'm all over it.
I'm, I'm making that happen.
Nicky Quinn (22:02):
I'm glad to hear it, I hope you do.
Next to my family and friends,this is all I think about and I
love working towards, um, a longterm vision to and beyond myself
and my lifetime.
And I think that's what thistechnology represents in its
fullest expression.
So, super excited about what'sto come in the short term and
taking this first step to comeinto market and then finally
(22:25):
engaging with diners, but alsojust working towards that
long-term vision that brought mehere many years ago, which is
our vision that has to do withsustainability and food
security.
Mitchell Denton (22:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's great.
It's well put.
Well, that's all for today'sepisode of"Let's Talk Farm to
Fork".
Thanks for listening, and thankyou, Nicky for joining me today.
Nicky Quinn (22:47):
It was my pleasure.
Thanks for having me and Aleph.
Mitchell Denton (22:50):
If you'd like to know more about Nicky and
Aleph Farms, check out the linkin the description of this
episode.
Make sure to subscribe to thepodcast so that you never miss
an episode, and don't forget toleave a review and share with
your friends.
Until next time you've beenlistening to"Let's Talk Farm the
Fork," a PostHarvest podcast.
Voiceover (23:05):
We appreciate you joining us for this episode of
let's talk, farm to fork, besure to rate, review and
subscribe.
Also, if you would like to learnmore about how you can
practically play your part inmaximizing fruit and vegetable
supplies, whether you're asupplier, consumer, or anyone in
between the farm to forkjourney, visit PostHarvest.Com
(23:28):
and try out their free onlinecourse library today.
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