January 27, 2025 • 45 mins
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Bri Gerzevske, an expert in nonprofit fundraising leadership, as she shares her transformative approach to creating high-functioning teams. Ever wondered how to step into a new leadership role and immediately start building trust and a positive team culture? Bri’s strategy centers around joy and belonging, and she shares how one-on-one meetings can help set expectations and understand team dynamics, all while maintaining healthy work-life boundaries. She also tackles the thorny issue of micromanagement and the importance of fostering a trust-based work environment.
The episode takes a deep dive into the challenging waters of hiring without bias. We explore the critical need for self-awareness and environmental analysis before recruitment, using approaches like SWOT analyses to ensure a well-rounded and diverse team. Bri shares her firsthand experiences balancing the emotional demands of fundraising in social services, particularly at St. Patrick's Center, where the administrative duties often intersect with the harsh realities faced by program staff. Through thoughtful strategies, she demonstrates how managing expectations is crucial for effective fundraising, while also highlighting the emotional resilience required in this field.
Finally, we delve into empowering teams through sustainable growth and support. Discover how to create a safe environment that encourages personal and professional development for each team member. Bri emphasizes the importance of recognizing what drives individuals and being a strong advocate for their aspirations, even when it means preparing them for opportunities beyond the current organization. We wrap up with practical advice on celebrating wins, integrating new team members, and maintaining a cohesive, motivated team dynamic that not only meets but exceeds fundraising goals.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Keith Greer, CFRE (00:05):
Hey, there, hi, and welcome back ambitious
fundraisers.
Today's episode is packed withinspiration, insights and
practical advice for nonprofitleaders and fundraisers who want
to create thriving connectedteams.
I'm sitting down with BriGerzevske, a dynamic fundraising
leader and head of a 14-persondevelopment team at St Patrick's
Center in St Louis, Missouri.
(00:26):
Bre has this incredible abilityto lead with joy and belonging
at the heart of everything shedoes and, let's face it, in this
high-pressure world offundraising, that's no small
feat.
We're diving deep into what itmeans to step into a new
leadership role, especially whenyou're leading an established
team.
We'll explore how to buildtrust, balance legacy with fresh
(00:47):
ideas and rethink what itreally means to hire for that
cultural fit.
We'll also talk about some ofthe big questions nonprofit
leaders face.
How do you combat bias inhiring and embrace diversity?
How do you create a culturewhere every win, big or small,
is celebrated?
And how do you keep a teamengaged, motivated and even
(01:09):
having fun while tackling thechallenges of fundraising?
If you've ever wondered how tocreate a team culture that's
joyful, inclusive and resilient,this is the episode for you.
So grab your coffee, settle inand let's talk fundraising.
I'd like to welcome to the showBri Gerzevsle.
(01:29):
Bri is a veteran fundraiserwith nearly 15 years of
experience in the faith-basedand social services sectors.
Today she runs the fundraisingshop at St Patrick's Center, a
ministry of Catholic Charitiesof St Louis, which serves those
who are experiencinghomelessness or near
homelessness by leveraging joyand belonging.
This year, she led her teamthrough a record-breaking
(01:51):
year-end campaign.
Her constant refrain to thecommunity ending homelessness
requires every heart and everyhand, and we can only achieve
this goal when we make changetogether.
Brie, welcome to the podcast.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (02:05):
Hello, Keith, it's so good to see you
again.
Keith Greer, CFRE (02:08):
I'm so glad you're here with me.
I miss seeing you.
We had so much fun in Atlantaat the Leadership Institute that
AFP put on.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (02:15):
We really did.
That was the best time I missyour shoes also.
Those are an honorable mention.
Quite honestly, they're sowonderful.
Keith Greer, CFRE (02:24):
Oh, quite honestly, they're so wonderful.
Oh, thank you.
I had so much fun getting to dothat with you guys.
It was such a treat to get tokind of show off that side of
myself.
It was a blast it was.
It was a wild time.
But we want to get into thecontent here.
And you started this role as anew leader, but of an already
established team, and that is nosmall task.
(02:45):
So when you first joined StPatrick's Center, what did those
early days look like for you asyou work to understand the team
dynamics and really build thattrust?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (02:54):
So I would say that any team that I sort of
inherit, one of the things thatI try to do immediately off the
bat, week one, is to get eachindividual separately, have sort
of one-on-one time with themand sort of set expectations in
(03:16):
a way, get to know them a littlebit better, what their role is,
what their expectations are.
But also like settingexpectations in terms of like
how can I as a manageraccommodate you in the best ways
possible?
What does an ideal manager looklike to you?
What can I do to help you bringyour best self and your best
(03:40):
work to St Patrick's Center?
And also just like things likewhat is your most favorite thing
about your job, what is yourleast favorite part about your
job?
And just understanding sort ofwhere their mindset is, where
they're at, what they prefer ina manager.
Because if you can sort ofkickstart off the bat those
(04:01):
expectations and gaining thatknowledge right away and just
asking that is going to serveyou well in the long run.
Every time I meet with a newteam member off the bat, I tell
them I really consider myself tobe a servant leader, I am your
advocate as the leader of thisteam, and I mean it Like when
(04:25):
you say, as a manager, if you'rean advocate for them, like the
words and the actions need to beabsolutely congruent and so you
also need to be open andaccessible and invite them to
ask their questions and to bebold and to question things and
be curious about it.
Keith Greer, CFRE (04:45):
I don't think asking your team what do you as
an ideal manager look like toyou is something most people do
when they're kind of steppinginto a new role.
I'm curious were there anycommon threads that were similar
among your team?
Was there anything that kind ofstood out of oh, this is really
important to them.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (05:02):
So I think two things, and one of which was
like loud resounding inagreement, because I feel the
same way.
Micromanagement like no, we'renot doing that.
Nobody likes a micromanager Idon't.
My philosophy is if I have tomicromanage you, you don't
belong on my team, like you needto be somewhere else with
(05:25):
somebody who is better suitedfor that.
Keith Greer, CFRE (05:28):
Yeah, Can we leave micromanagement back in
like the 1980s please?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (05:32):
Yes, like please, let's do that.
So a lot of like trust-basedfunctioning and working and sort
of in a similar vein, some likeflexibility.
So you know, understanding thatyou know there may be a day
that I want to work from home orI have to work from home
because I'm getting arefrigerator delivered.
(05:54):
It's just like accepting that.
You know there's.
You know people talk aboutwork-life balance and when
you're when, when, whencompanies sort of talk about
that, do they truly mean likework life balance, is it?
You know you come in from 830to 530 every day and then the
rest of the time outside of thatis like personal time, like
(06:18):
what is the, what is sort of theallowable?
Keith Greer, CFRE (06:21):
What is personal time?
I don't think we have that innonprofit.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (06:24):
True, exactly.
And so the other part of it islike, yes, allowing for that
flexibility, and like settinggood and healthy boundaries as
well.
Keith Greer, CFRE (06:37):
Absolutely.
And so when you, once youactually get into the team and
you kind of have that sense ofwhat the existing culture is,
how did you find the balancebetween honoring the great
things that the team already hadin place but also bringing and
introducing your leadershipstyle and your fresh ideas to
your team?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (06:55):
I consider myself fortunate because when I
started this role back inOctober of 2023, this role back
in October of 2023, I inherited.
The team that I inherited isamazing, like I could not.
There's been some staffturnover, but even like from day
one, I had an excellent team.
I, to this day, I have anexcellent team and I will sing
(07:17):
their praises until my dying day.
Quite honestly, I also thinkthat I had this is maybe not the
right word, but there was abenefit to stepping in when I
did, because there had been thissort of leadership vacancy for
like six months-ish, and so Ialso think that there was a sort
(07:41):
of a sigh of relief thateverybody felt because there was
a leader coming in andproviding that guidance,
providing that leadership,somebody who would make the
tough decisions, and so I thinkthere was some relief to that as
well.
And I think, because of that,and maybe just in general of
(08:08):
that, and maybe just in generalvery open to change, very
trusting, there were some thingsthat I didn't necessarily like,
that were sort of the the normat the time.
I'll give you an example.
I started in October.
We were pretty far along on theyear-end appeal, so I looked at
the artwork and I'm like, no,this is, this is not going this
way, and that comes from yearsof running really successful
(08:30):
direct mail campaigns and theconsulting that I've done.
I just knew that the artwork,some of the assumptions that
were baked into the artwork, waswrong basically, and so not
wrong necessarily, but notsteeped in best practice.
Keith Greer, CFRE (08:44):
Yeah.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (08:45):
And so I went ahead and I'm like pump the
brakes.
This is what we're going to do.
We're going to rewrite it,we're going to lay it out
differently, we're going to justwe're going to blow it up.
And I think without theflexibility and the openness of
my team, that would not haveflown.
And so, because of theirreceptiveness and their openness
(09:07):
to things, we were still ableto hit the deadlines and were
able to put out a qualityproduct, far better, I would
argue, than what was going to goout Wonderful, and I think that
that's a two-way street right,because your team has to be open
to the flexibility and theadvice and the feedback.
Keith Greer, CFRE (09:26):
But also I think that the way that you show
up with joy and belonging andvaluing your team, I think makes
a big difference.
Because if you come in withthat attitude of I know better
and I'm changing everything andI'm the leader and so I'm right,
that doesn't go over very well.
I'm the leader and I'm so I'mright.
You know that doesn't go oververy well.
But so what is the joy and thebelonging in your leadership?
(09:48):
What does that look like foryou in practice in your team,
and how do you make those valuesreally come alive on that day
to day basis?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (09:57):
Well, I will also say this I come into
my work fully aware that I don'tknow everything, I don't have
all the answers.
I am not an events-basedfundraiser.
That is not my strength, that'snot something I've experienced
before.
And so we have at St Patrick'sCenter, two signature events.
(10:19):
We have a golf and gala, andthen we do a Veterans Day 5K
every year Completely fish outof water, situation, out of my
depth, didn't know anythingabout it, and so I owned that
and I allowed the team around meto sort of give voice to okay,
(10:42):
this is what we need to do toensure fundraising success at
our golf tournament and justbeing sort of open to their
feedback, their knowledge, theirinformation to make me a better
leader.
So part of it is also owningthat.
You don't know everything.
We all come with a set ofstrengths and you need others to
(11:06):
be just a more well-rounded,strong leader.
(12:08):
whether it's a manager or, youknow, a specialist or a
coordinator or a senior director, like it doesn't matter.
Everyone has a unique thingthat they bring to the table and
it's important to be mindful ofthat.
I find that people are muchmore willing to bring their
A-game when they sort of havethat sense of belonging.
(12:32):
And I think the way, I thinkthe best way to keep up that
level of belonging, that senseof belonging, is to also realize
that not everyone belongs.
Quote unquote I'm doing airquotes.
Nobody can see that.
Keith Greer, CFRE (12:50):
She's doing it.
I can vouch for her.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (12:53):
Not everybody belongs in the same
way and we also need to berespectful and mindful and
honoring of those differences.
I may love meeting in personevery day of the week at a
certain time, and that's how Ifeel connected, and that's great
and that's fine.
(13:13):
And I may have others on myteam that are like look, I do
not have the spoons to meet withyou in person right now, and
that's fine too.
I think it is respecting thechoices and the preferences of
everybody around you, so thatthere is sort of this feeling of
comfort and safety, becausethat's only going to make people
(13:35):
feel like there's thatbelonging there, that they
belong in that space and theywant to be in that space.
Keith Greer, CFRE (13:41):
Absolutely.
I think that's really important, and you came in with a team
that was already established.
You inherited them, but you'vealso had to do some hiring for
some staff turnover.
That's happened.
So let's talk a little bitabout that term, cultural fit
and it kind of gets thrownaround a lot, but sometimes it
feels like shorthand for hiringpeople just like us.
(14:03):
How do you define cultural fitin a way that really fosters
diversity while keeping the teamconnected?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (14:10):
So similar to how I feel about belonging is
how I also think about culturalfit.
I believe that everyone isdifferent.
Everyone is deserving of dignityand regard, and we need to be
able to honor that and embracethat and be kind to one another.
(14:31):
And, honestly, I think, anothersort of non-negotiable if you
want to be a member of my teamin specific, like you need to at
least be supportive of oneanother and embrace the
differences that we sharetogether.
Otherwise I don't know thatthere's room for you on the team
, because I honestly feel likeif we can be amicable and kind
(14:56):
to each other and also be ableto have difficult discussions in
a cordial way or in a healthyway like that's what I want
that's only going to snowball onitself and continue to sort of
breed this cultural fit right.
And again, what that supportlooks like might not be what
(15:19):
support looks like to mydirector of philanthropy
operations, and so, knowingyourself sort of self-awareness
and others' awareness is goingto get you very far as you think
about embracing diversity andaccepting someone to be a part
of your culture.
And the other thing that Ithink people don't talk about is
(15:40):
that Culture shifts, like itevolves over time, and so I
think we need to be cognizant ofthat and and keep our finger on
the pulse of that shine throughone way or the other, because
people can sort of bring theirdiversity of thought and bring
(16:09):
their lived experiences to thetable in that work and as we
work together.
Keith Greer, CFRE (16:15):
I want to just highlight something you
were talking there about withself-awareness, and I think
that's something that we don'tdo enough of as people in
society in general.
I think there's a lot of usthat have this idea of, oh, I'm
absolutely self-aware, and thepeople who are proclaiming it
the loudest often are the leastself-aware folks out there.
(16:36):
But I know that you've put alot of thought into recognizing
and addressing the biases in thehiring processes in general,
and so what steps have you foundto be the most effective in
actively working against thosebiases and bringing in voices
and perspectives that the teammight be missing?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (16:55):
Right and I want to be abundantly clear.
I try to be as exemplary inthis as possible.
I'm not perfect and I'm stilltrying to formulate like what,
what this looks like for me, andso the first thing that I would
do, when you know that you'rein the process, prior to
beginning the hiring process, isyou really need to do like an
(17:17):
environmental analysis and likeliterally like, sit down and do
a SWOT analysis?
In what areas of yourfundraising shop are you lacking
?
Or, when it comes to a donorengagement person, like, what
are you truly looking for?
One of the things that I justas an example, our donor
(17:38):
engagement manager positionbecame open, I think at the end
of the year in which I started.
It was like December 2023.
And I knew that, with where wewere at in the leadership
transition that they had seen,is we really need somebody we
really need, like a seniormanager?
We don't need a manager.
We need a senior manager who'sdone the fundraising thing
(18:00):
before, who is not afraid to ask, who speaks the language and
has just has done the thingbefore, and so what we did was
we hired somebody who broughtthat additional experience and
spoke that language, and thathas served us well in the long
(18:21):
run.
So I think, first things first,you really need to understand
where your strengths andweaknesses are on your team,
what opportunities there are,and go from there.
All that to say, you have to gointo the hiring process knowing
that the best candidates arenot always going to look like
(18:41):
you, they're not going to talklike you do, they're going to
have completely different livedexperiences from you, and so it
can be really hard and worth it,worth the work.
But it's very hard as a hiringmanager sometimes to cut through
(19:02):
that noise.
And so what I would say is, asyou're assessing fitness for
your team, like don't be hastyto hire, like really sit, sit in
it and truly reflect.
Don't make a decision in, Iwould say, even like 72 hours.
(19:23):
Like it some thought and anyany um, implicit or like
subconscious biases that youknow you deal with.
Lean into that, because if youhave someone come through where
you're like I know for a factthat I have preferences and
biases and this person that I'mI'm interviewing doesn't look
(19:45):
like me at all lean into thatand truly listen to what they're
saying, because if you're nottruly listening in the interview
, they may be offering thestrength that you need to fill
this one gap and if you can'tget past you know what they look
like, or a word that they use,or the way they say something
(20:06):
like you are missing a greatopportunity.
And so I would say, when itcomes to hiring, truly listen,
assess where this person sort offits in the SWOT analysis and
take some time to think about it, like put thought into it.
And I think those are threereally good.
(20:29):
Those are the three tips Iwould give when hiring somebody
with you know the biases thatwe're becoming more aware of
that have shaped our society so,so deeply and so covertly.
You got to put your mind intoit and it's hard, but it's you
have to do it.
Keith Greer, CFRE (20:48):
You do, and I think that once you become
aware of them, it makes it mucheasier to go around them and to
work around them, because if youdon't know like you, you simply
don't know Right, and so thatit does.
It's really important to takethat time, to have that
self-reflective process and youknow, as a leader, you could be
(21:09):
vulnerable and share.
These are the biases that I'mworking with and dealing with
with your hiring team, but evenjust acknowledging them for
yourself and keeping it internalis a big step along the way.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So, once you have your team puttogether, fundraising is it
easy?
Probably not.
It's tough work.
(21:30):
Yeah, it's hard.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (21:31):
Listen, I, I so.
St Patrick's Center is a, aministry of Catholic charities
and our primary the folks thatwe serve are people who are
either dealing with homelessnessor near homelessness.
I have learned so much aboutpeople in that struggle in the
(21:54):
last year, year and a couplemonths, and there are days
fundraising is hard I want toacknowledge that and I feel like
sometimes it is even moredifficult for social service
fundraisers because while Idon't envy our staff, our
(22:15):
program staff, our case managers, the people who are on the
front lines with people who arestruggling with substance use
disorder, whether they'redealing with mental health
challenges, mental healthchallenges I don't envy that
Like that's a whole thing.
But there are times that I haveto tell you when somebody is
(22:35):
right outside my office, likeyelling and screaming on the
client deck because they arehaving the worst day of their
life, and understandably so,Like that, that can really cut
me to the core just toexperience some of the things
that I see walking into mybuilding.
It's tough.
We're not as exposed on theadministrative side as program
(23:00):
side, but it is still reallytough and you combine that with
sort of sometimes unreasonableexpectations and fundraising
goals from your leadership oryour board.
Luckily, I have not had thatproblem here, but it's either
that or sort of a unfortunateignorance for one for right, for
(23:24):
right, wrong, or indifferentabout what fundraising actually
is and like managing donorexpectations, like that's a
whole thing too.
So it is with the professionalchallenges that we have.
There's also sort of this extralayer of we have this job to do
serving this very vulnerablepopulation, and we we take that
(23:46):
with us as well.
Keith Greer, CFRE (23:47):
Yeah, as you were telling your story, it
reminded me of when I wasworking for hospice and we had
an inpatient care facilityprogram there and that's where
my office was located was inthat care center.
And I remember the first time Iwas sitting in my office and a
family was visiting and theirloved one passed away while they
(24:10):
were in the room and theimmediate and visceral wailing
that came out of that room athaving lost somebody that they
love and that they care about,and it reverberated and it
echoed down the halls.
And I'm sitting there in myoffice and it hit me so hard and
I just started crying because Iknew the pain that they were
(24:31):
going through.
And so it's such a hard thingfor so many people on the
program side, and as hard asfundraising is.
Like you, I thank my starsevery day that I am not on the
program side, because my heartwas not built to be able to
handle that.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (24:49):
I tell the program staff all the time I was
like I will shoot my shot withMackenzie Scott like every day
and ask her for, try to ask herfor 30 billion dollars, like I
don't.
I will do that before being acase manager because it takes a
special kind of person that Idon't think I could do that.
Keith Greer, CFRE (25:08):
No, no.
But one of the things that Ilove about you is that you find
moments worth celebrating everyday, Like that's one of your
superpowers.
So how do you keep your teammotivated and really proud of
their work?
By celebrating those wins thatare both really big, but also,
you know when those droughtshappen and you need to celebrate
(25:29):
the small wins.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (25:30):
Yeah, so I I feel like I have the capacity
and the ability and the strengthof bringing joy, so I I do that
anyway.
When others might not have thecapacity to do it, I try to
bring it as much as possible.
My office looks like apreschool classroom.
There's like Legos and Play-Dohand it's very bright and
colorful and just like I wantpeople to see me as sort of like
(25:53):
a fun, safe person, and so alot of that attitude and
approach I bring to myleadership style when things get
rough.
One of the probably the biggestchallenge for me as a senior
director of philanthropy thisyear was that we had sort of
(26:15):
underestimated orover-exaggerated some of the
funding that would be coming inthis year when we were building
our budgets, and so we learnedvery quickly in at the beginning
of the fiscal year that therewere some significant gaps and
so we had to do a reduction inforce.
We had to, we had to cutprograms like it.
(26:38):
It was really, it was reallybad.
And so on top of thatuncertainty, like I knew, the
pressure was on philanthropy tosort of do their part and just
giddy up and go, and so the onething I knew that would help
people feel that belonging andkeep up that belonging was by
(27:00):
sharing fundraising wins atevery Monday morning meeting.
So every Monday in the morningwe sort of have just a little
brief check-in five or tenminutes anyway just to get us
centered and like intentionalfor the work week During our
year-end campaign, when wereally had to up the ante, one
of the things that I hadeverybody do was bring sort of a
(27:25):
fundraising win to the meetingthat had maybe happened in the
week prior.
And so this was everything from,like I remembered my Razor's
Edge login every day last weekto you know this person who said
they don't ever want to meetwith me ever, you know, gave
(27:47):
twice the amount that they'vegiven in the past.
So just like celebrating thosewins, big and small, I think,
really helped build that joy,build that belonging, which then
in turn helped people on myteam to bring their best.
And again we have just sort ofthis snowball effect of joy and
(28:09):
motivation and belonging sort ofall feeding into that.
And I honestly I can't give allthe credit to that activity for
our year end fundraisingperformance, but at the end of
this year we almost doubled ourrevenue performance year and
then we've done in the pastthat's amazing.
(28:31):
Our initial goal was a milliondollars and I ran the numbers
today and we are still waitingon a couple of things, but we're
going to crack 1.9 million.
Keith Greer, CFRE (28:42):
That's absolutely incredible.
Congratulations thank you,thank you, that's a really big
deal and it takes a huge teameffort to make that possible.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (28:51):
So like kudos to your team too, like
it's hard work well, and also,too, like gratitude is a huge
part of it, like it's like thewins too, and you know I I joke,
um, that you tell them I'm likeyou're the best team ever and I
cry every day, like, because,like, but it's truly, it's like
(29:13):
they are truly such a great teamand I couldn't ask for a better
one, and so just just sort ofconstantly be in awe of them and
and be great, truly gratefulthat for the work that they do,
I think also is very much a gamechanger, I think, when it comes
to being a leader.
I know people are sort ofweirded out when I say this, but
(29:35):
like, I feel like I have a deepand abiding love for the people
that I lead.
It's like completely within therealm of HR propriety, it's not
like weird or anything likethat.
Keith Greer, CFRE (29:49):
Good to point out.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (29:50):
Right.
But like I truly love thesepeople and I am proud of them
when they do their best and whenthey do their worst, like I'm
still with them and I'm coachingthem and saying, okay, how can
we do this differently in thefuture?
What have we learned from this?
It's really how can we do thisdifferently in the future?
What have we learned from this?
No-transcript.
(30:12):
I truly love the people that Iwork with and I think that sort
of also translates into theleadership that I bring to the
table.
Keith Greer, CFRE (30:23):
And when you're really kind of bringing
that team together and you havea team that is so cohesive and
that's functioning so well andyou might have had just a brand
new hire that does not fit thetypical mold of your team, that
can be an incredible opportunityin itself, right, but how do
you go about onboarding somebodylike that, somebody who might
bring a unique style or a uniqueperspective and make sure that
(30:46):
they feel welcomed and that theteam stays cohesive as you bring
this disruptive force onto theteam?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (30:59):
bring this disruptive force onto the team.
Yeah, so I and again, I thinkit starts with that day one
interview, one-on-one type thingwhen I'm telling people that I
am here for you, I am youradvocate, I exist for you to be
the best version of yourself inyour role, and making sure that
that attitude and that mindsetpervades throughout the entire
(31:20):
team, that we are rooting foreach other.
Despite differences that we mayhave, the diversity that we
have, we still honor and respecteach other and we honor the
dignity in each other.
And sometimes if there issomeone who is sort of quote
unquote different from the norm,like that's okay, we value that
(31:43):
person and because they'redifferent, there is a strength
there.
And so, again, I think alsolike creating that safe space is
key in allowing people toexpress their unique styles and
perspectives.
Sometimes, in my experience,some reports are more than
(32:04):
willing to volunteer thatinformation to you, which is
great, that's fine.
Sometimes it takes time,sometimes you need to draw it
out or it comes out, and so, asa manager, you have to be ready
and curious either way, howeverlong it takes, but you have to
create that safe space that I'mleading by example for, but also
(32:26):
expecting the others on theteam to also uphold that safe
space and respect thedifferences of each other,
regardless of how like sidewaysdifferent this person is Like.
That's just.
That's the culture that weembrace.
Keith Greer, CFRE (32:45):
I'm just reflecting on that for a moment.
Yeah, because I think it'sreally important, and one of the
things that I think you and Ihave in common and that I really
respect is that I know that weboth care about helping our team
members really grow beyondtheir current roles.
Right, hopefully they're goingto grow into their next role
with us, but sometimes they'regoing to grow into their next
(33:07):
role with another organizationor into a whole new field that
they're not even thinking aboutright now.
How do you uncover what drivesyour team members and supports
their personal and theirprofessional aspirations, even
if their goal is to go beyondour organization?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (33:25):
So I think, when it comes to like
professional development, I liketo just ask them like what can
I provide you, what can I directyou to that would help you grow
in your job and make you abetter donor engagement
coordinator?
I'm always ready, willing andable to promote professional
(33:45):
membership organizations,different conferences, things of
that nature.
So, like we're entering budgetseason right now, one of the
things I'm going to ask my teamis okay, take some time and
think about okay, do you want anAFP membership next year?
Do you want to be able to go toAFP Icon?
(34:07):
What are your goals in the rolethat you're in and how can we
build into the budget thosethings that will help you to get
to where you are?
So part of it is being veryintentional about inviting them
to think about those things andalso by leading.
For example, I have a sign upin my office that says ask me
(34:31):
about AFP.
St Louis, I am the VP ofprofessional development for the
chapter this year and I loveall things AFP.
St Louis, I am the VP ofProfessional Development for the
chapter this year and I loveall things AFP and I will
advocate for that.
And so I would love to.
I would talk to any of thepeople on my team about AFP
membership and why it mattersand why it's helpful.
(34:53):
I'm also willing to talk to mycommunications team about
non-profit marketers networks.
So there's all these differentresources out there that, if I
can exemplify how helpful itmakes me in my professional
development, I want that to sortof be contagious as well, and
so when they want to pursuethose opportunities, I'm there
(35:15):
for them to help them figurethat out.
I will also say that I've hadpeople come to me to say you
know, I don't think I can dothis anymore.
I've hit my wall.
I can't do this.
Obviously, I can't helpsomebody if they don't tell me
that, but I also want people toknow that I do not judge them or
(35:41):
their journey in any waywhatsoever.
I had a team member who had leftearlier middle of last year.
She was interviewing for a joband she let me know about it and
we got to unpack a little bitmore sort of the challenges that
she had been facing, and so Iwas like, look I, I again exist
(36:05):
as your advocate to be the bestversion of yourself that you can
be, and sometimes that meanssetting you up for success for
the next thing I said if youfeel like you've hit a wall and
this interview falls through,let's take a look at your resume
(36:25):
, let's do some mock interviews.
I want to see the people that Ilead as more than a role on an
org chart.
These are people with goals andpersonal objectives and I feel
like if I'm not setting upsomebody for the next thing and
(36:47):
be successful, I'm not doing myjob as a manager.
It seems counterintuitive, butI truly feel like I'm not doing
my job if somebody wants to moveon or is feeling it or feeling
some kind of way, and they can'tcome to me and say look, here's
where I'm at.
Can you help me?
Keith Greer, CFRE (37:06):
Totally.
I think one of my proudestmoments as being a leader is
when people who have come in ata certain level and it's a
stretch for them at the timeright and you've helped develop
them and get them to wherethey're really thriving in that
role, and then you've helpedthem dream and imagine bigger
(37:26):
than where they're at and thenthey leave you for a much bigger
role than your organizationcould ever be able to do could
ever be able to do Like.
it's an amazing feeling to beable to watch that person
develop and have that win,because it's just, it's so great
.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (37:42):
Yeah, it's bittersweet.
I think one of the things thatI say is you know, if I hire you
in at a certain level, likeI'll be sad for you to leave me
for the next thing, but likethat's just a testament, I think
, to that person and to theleadership skills that I bring
as well.
Like if people are moving on tobigger and better.
(38:05):
that means that they're beingformed in some form or fashion
under my leadership, and that'sthat's a testament to the good
work that I do Absolutely, andif you have people that are
underneath you and are neverprogressing, I really take that
as a sign of kind of failure ofmy own leadership, in that, oh,
(38:26):
I am not doing what I need to doto help my team right.
And that goes not just on theindividual basis, but on the
team building too.
Team building itself can soundlike such a buzzword, and you
know it so much more than trustfalls and icebreakers, and so
what kind of team buildingpractices have you found that
genuinely are effective forboosting morale and really
(38:50):
keeping your team firing on allcylinders?
One of the things that I thinkreally helps people feel
connected to the team and bondedis giving folks agency in their
role as a part of thedepartment.
So one of the things that I didback in June of last year in
(39:15):
preparation for the new fiscalyear At the same time Catholic
Charities of St Louis and all ofits ministries have been
undergoing this strategic planprocess and so one of the things
that I did in, you know, in themonth leading up to the fiscal
year, I said I got everybody ina room and I said, hey, let's
(39:37):
spend a day reviewing thestrategic plan.
What can you as volunteercoordinator, for example, what
can you do in your role to helpus meet this pillar of the
strategic plan?
So it's getting everybody in aroom, giving them a seat at the
(39:58):
table, literally having themgive input and connecting their
role to the strategic plan,which oftentimes feels like
these things are 300 miles apart.
So what I try to do is bring ita lot closer to the team
beneath the leadership level andto help them own it, and I
(40:19):
think when that happens you growas a team together and you grow
sort of individually as well,that we're sort of we're all
shaping what this team lookslike moving forward.
Keith Greer, CFRE (40:31):
I think giving that buy-in and
empowering the team is really acritical piece of it, right, and
that's also a big piece of theprofessional development too,
because sometimes these peoplethat are participating in it
they've never had thatopportunity before and so they
don't.
It's a learning opportunity forthat.
And so one of the things thatwe had talked about was that
(40:53):
there's kind of a turning pointin our careers.
In the beginning it's a lot oflearning, it's a lot of anxiety
because we don't always knowwhat we're doing and we're kind
of making it up as we go along.
But there comes a point whenwe're hitting our stride, we've
got the rhythm, we kind of knowwhat's happening within our
roles, within our teams, andfundraising switches from that
(41:16):
thing that is stress and anxietyproducing and it actually
becomes fun.
When do you think that shifthappens and what's the secret to
keeping that fun energy alive?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (41:26):
I think that once you have created a
culture of gratitude, curiosity,appreciation, people start to
look at their work differently.
When you are applauding eachother because you've
successfully logged into Razor'sEdge every day last week, that
only highlights the really hugeand awesome wins.
(41:52):
And so really having thatlooking at things through a lens
of appreciation not necessarilybeing Pollyanna about stuff
because our work is very hardand seeing sort of the positive
in very hard work, Like once youget people into that habit and
changing their perspective onthe work that they're doing, and
(42:15):
showing your appreciation forthat hard work, that's, I think,
when it starts to get fun.
And I also will say too, it'snot all sunshine and puppies,
Like it's not, we're all goingto screw up and I think that it
is just as important to notnecessarily celebrate the wins.
(42:36):
But but like one of the thingsthat I've started doing is like
when absolutely unhinged stuffhappens at work, I think like
would this be in an episode ofthe office?
And like nine times out of tenit would definitely 100% be an
episode of the Office, becauseit is so like absurd and like,
(42:59):
yes, it sucks in the moment, butlike understanding that that's
just part of the job and thatit's something that you can look
back on and laugh andunderstand that even in that
moment you have a teamsupporting you.
That, I think, also is key, inaddition to supporting those
fundraising wins.
(43:19):
Like embracing failure as partof the process.
I've started doing thispractice called Spicy Meatballs,
where I'm keeping track of allof the upset donor
correspondence that I get.
Oh, so I'm like days withoutSpicy meatball and then I just
like I keep a tally of it, andwhen I when I get a donor who
gives it, sends me aparticularly unhinged
(43:42):
correspondence, I'm like, okay,wipe the slate clean, we're
starting back at zero.
So just like, poke fun at atlike something, poking fun at
the failure, Like that soundsawful, but like I fully also
endorse.
Like when you get thoseunhinged emails from a donor,
like everyone gather aroundwe're going to do a dramatic
(44:04):
reading of this absolutely wildemail that we got from this
donor and just like laugh at it,Because I mean, life is too
short to be hung up on failures.
And so I think, when you canembrace failure and really
genuinely celebrate all of thegood things about your job,
(44:27):
you're going to have fun,because failure is where we
really have our biggest learningopportunity 100% our biggest
learning opportunity.
Keith Greer, CFRE (44:34):
But oftentimes in those moments, if
we can, once we get through theinitial sting and then the
laughter, we can find thatkernel of truth and what the
message is right.
Yep, for sure, for sure.
Well, Bri, I had such a funafternoon with you, so thank you
for being on the podcast andsharing all about your team and
(44:55):
your hiring and your leadership.
It was really a wonderfulexperience to get to spend time
with you in Atlanta at the AFPLeadership Institute and I hope
that I get to see you again inperson soon.
Are you going to ICON this year?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (45:08):
I will not be going to ICON, but I feel
like we should present somethingtogether at LEAD or ICON or
something in the future.
Keith Greer, CFRE (45:19):
Absolutely.
I think that would be so muchfun.
Let's do it.
I am in a hundred percent.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (45:24):
Awesome, let's go, let's go.
Keith Greer, CFRE (45:26):
Let's go Perfect.
Well, have a wonderful rest ofyour day and I'll look forward
to seeing you again at our nextquad squad cohort group for a
zoom call.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (45:38):
Awesome.
Thanks for having me, Keith.
Thanks, bye-bye.
Hey, there, hi, and welcome back ambitious
fundraisers.
Today's episode is packed withinspiration, insights and
practical advice for nonprofitleaders and fundraisers who want
to create thriving connectedteams.
I'm sitting down with BriGerzevske, a dynamic fundraising
leader and head of a 14-persondevelopment team at St Patrick's
Center in St Louis, Missouri.
(00:26):
Bre has this incredible abilityto lead with joy and belonging
at the heart of everything shedoes and, let's face it, in this
high-pressure world offundraising, that's no small
feat.
We're diving deep into what itmeans to step into a new
leadership role, especially whenyou're leading an established
team.
We'll explore how to buildtrust, balance legacy with fresh
(00:47):
ideas and rethink what itreally means to hire for that
cultural fit.
We'll also talk about some ofthe big questions nonprofit
leaders face.
How do you combat bias inhiring and embrace diversity?
How do you create a culturewhere every win, big or small,
is celebrated?
And how do you keep a teamengaged, motivated and even
(01:09):
having fun while tackling thechallenges of fundraising?
If you've ever wondered how tocreate a team culture that's
joyful, inclusive and resilient,this is the episode for you.
So grab your coffee, settle inand let's talk fundraising.
I'd like to welcome to the showBri Gerzevsle.
(01:29):
Bri is a veteran fundraiserwith nearly 15 years of
experience in the faith-basedand social services sectors.
Today she runs the fundraisingshop at St Patrick's Center, a
ministry of Catholic Charitiesof St Louis, which serves those
who are experiencinghomelessness or near
homelessness by leveraging joyand belonging.
This year, she led her teamthrough a record-breaking
(01:51):
year-end campaign.
Her constant refrain to thecommunity ending homelessness
requires every heart and everyhand, and we can only achieve
this goal when we make changetogether.
Brie, welcome to the podcast.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (02:05):
Hello, Keith, it's so good to see you
again.
Keith Greer, CFRE (02:08):
I'm so glad you're here with me.
I miss seeing you.
We had so much fun in Atlantaat the Leadership Institute that
AFP put on.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (02:15):
We really did.
That was the best time I missyour shoes also.
Those are an honorable mention.
Quite honestly, they're sowonderful.
Keith Greer, CFRE (02:24):
Oh, quite honestly, they're so wonderful.
Oh, thank you.
I had so much fun getting to dothat with you guys.
It was such a treat to get tokind of show off that side of
myself.
It was a blast it was.
It was a wild time.
But we want to get into thecontent here.
And you started this role as anew leader, but of an already
established team, and that is nosmall task.
(02:45):
So when you first joined StPatrick's Center, what did those
early days look like for you asyou work to understand the team
dynamics and really build thattrust?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (02:54):
So I would say that any team that I sort of
inherit, one of the things thatI try to do immediately off the
bat, week one, is to get eachindividual separately, have sort
of one-on-one time with themand sort of set expectations in
(03:16):
a way, get to know them a littlebit better, what their role is,
what their expectations are.
But also like settingexpectations in terms of like
how can I as a manageraccommodate you in the best ways
possible?
What does an ideal manager looklike to you?
What can I do to help you bringyour best self and your best
(03:40):
work to St Patrick's Center?
And also just like things likewhat is your most favorite thing
about your job, what is yourleast favorite part about your
job?
And just understanding sort ofwhere their mindset is, where
they're at, what they prefer ina manager.
Because if you can sort ofkickstart off the bat those
(04:01):
expectations and gaining thatknowledge right away and just
asking that is going to serveyou well in the long run.
Every time I meet with a newteam member off the bat, I tell
them I really consider myself tobe a servant leader, I am your
advocate as the leader of thisteam, and I mean it Like when
(04:25):
you say, as a manager, if you'rean advocate for them, like the
words and the actions need to beabsolutely congruent and so you
also need to be open andaccessible and invite them to
ask their questions and to bebold and to question things and
be curious about it.
Keith Greer, CFRE (04:45):
I don't think asking your team what do you as
an ideal manager look like toyou is something most people do
when they're kind of steppinginto a new role.
I'm curious were there anycommon threads that were similar
among your team?
Was there anything that kind ofstood out of oh, this is really
important to them.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (05:02):
So I think two things, and one of which was
like loud resounding inagreement, because I feel the
same way.
Micromanagement like no, we'renot doing that.
Nobody likes a micromanager Idon't.
My philosophy is if I have tomicromanage you, you don't
belong on my team, like you needto be somewhere else with
(05:25):
somebody who is better suitedfor that.
Keith Greer, CFRE (05:28):
Yeah, Can we leave micromanagement back in
like the 1980s please?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (05:32):
Yes, like please, let's do that.
So a lot of like trust-basedfunctioning and working and sort
of in a similar vein, some likeflexibility.
So you know, understanding thatyou know there may be a day
that I want to work from home orI have to work from home
because I'm getting arefrigerator delivered.
(05:54):
It's just like accepting that.
You know there's.
You know people talk aboutwork-life balance and when
you're when, when, whencompanies sort of talk about
that, do they truly mean likework life balance, is it?
You know you come in from 830to 530 every day and then the
rest of the time outside of thatis like personal time, like
(06:18):
what is the, what is sort of theallowable?
Keith Greer, CFRE (06:21):
What is personal time?
I don't think we have that innonprofit.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (06:24):
True, exactly.
And so the other part of it islike, yes, allowing for that
flexibility, and like settinggood and healthy boundaries as
well.
Keith Greer, CFRE (06:37):
Absolutely.
And so when you, once youactually get into the team and
you kind of have that sense ofwhat the existing culture is,
how did you find the balancebetween honoring the great
things that the team already hadin place but also bringing and
introducing your leadershipstyle and your fresh ideas to
your team?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (06:55):
I consider myself fortunate because when I
started this role back inOctober of 2023, this role back
in October of 2023, I inherited.
The team that I inherited isamazing, like I could not.
There's been some staffturnover, but even like from day
one, I had an excellent team.
I, to this day, I have anexcellent team and I will sing
(07:17):
their praises until my dying day.
Quite honestly, I also thinkthat I had this is maybe not the
right word, but there was abenefit to stepping in when I
did, because there had been thissort of leadership vacancy for
like six months-ish, and so Ialso think that there was a sort
(07:41):
of a sigh of relief thateverybody felt because there was
a leader coming in andproviding that guidance,
providing that leadership,somebody who would make the
tough decisions, and so I thinkthere was some relief to that as
well.
And I think, because of that,and maybe just in general of
(08:08):
that, and maybe just in generalvery open to change, very
trusting, there were some thingsthat I didn't necessarily like,
that were sort of the the normat the time.
I'll give you an example.
I started in October.
We were pretty far along on theyear-end appeal, so I looked at
the artwork and I'm like, no,this is, this is not going this
way, and that comes from yearsof running really successful
(08:30):
direct mail campaigns and theconsulting that I've done.
I just knew that the artwork,some of the assumptions that
were baked into the artwork, waswrong basically, and so not
wrong necessarily, but notsteeped in best practice.
Keith Greer, CFRE (08:44):
Yeah.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (08:45):
And so I went ahead and I'm like pump the
brakes.
This is what we're going to do.
We're going to rewrite it,we're going to lay it out
differently, we're going to justwe're going to blow it up.
And I think without theflexibility and the openness of
my team, that would not haveflown.
And so, because of theirreceptiveness and their openness
(09:07):
to things, we were still ableto hit the deadlines and were
able to put out a qualityproduct, far better, I would
argue, than what was going to goout Wonderful, and I think that
that's a two-way street right,because your team has to be open
to the flexibility and theadvice and the feedback.
Keith Greer, CFRE (09:26):
But also I think that the way that you show
up with joy and belonging andvaluing your team, I think makes
a big difference.
Because if you come in withthat attitude of I know better
and I'm changing everything andI'm the leader and so I'm right,
that doesn't go over very well.
I'm the leader and I'm so I'mright.
You know that doesn't go oververy well.
But so what is the joy and thebelonging in your leadership?
(09:48):
What does that look like foryou in practice in your team,
and how do you make those valuesreally come alive on that day
to day basis?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (09:57):
Well, I will also say this I come into
my work fully aware that I don'tknow everything, I don't have
all the answers.
I am not an events-basedfundraiser.
That is not my strength, that'snot something I've experienced
before.
And so we have at St Patrick'sCenter, two signature events.
(10:19):
We have a golf and gala, andthen we do a Veterans Day 5K
every year Completely fish outof water, situation, out of my
depth, didn't know anythingabout it, and so I owned that
and I allowed the team around meto sort of give voice to okay,
(10:42):
this is what we need to do toensure fundraising success at
our golf tournament and justbeing sort of open to their
feedback, their knowledge, theirinformation to make me a better
leader.
So part of it is also owningthat.
You don't know everything.
We all come with a set ofstrengths and you need others to
(11:06):
be just a more well-rounded,strong leader.
(12:08):
whether it's a manager or, youknow, a specialist or a
coordinator or a senior director, like it doesn't matter.
Everyone has a unique thingthat they bring to the table and
it's important to be mindful ofthat.
I find that people are muchmore willing to bring their
A-game when they sort of havethat sense of belonging.
(12:32):
And I think the way, I thinkthe best way to keep up that
level of belonging, that senseof belonging, is to also realize
that not everyone belongs.
Quote unquote I'm doing airquotes.
Nobody can see that.
Keith Greer, CFRE (12:50):
She's doing it.
I can vouch for her.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (12:53):
Not everybody belongs in the same
way and we also need to berespectful and mindful and
honoring of those differences.
I may love meeting in personevery day of the week at a
certain time, and that's how Ifeel connected, and that's great
and that's fine.
(13:13):
And I may have others on myteam that are like look, I do
not have the spoons to meet withyou in person right now, and
that's fine too.
I think it is respecting thechoices and the preferences of
everybody around you, so thatthere is sort of this feeling of
comfort and safety, becausethat's only going to make people
(13:35):
feel like there's thatbelonging there, that they
belong in that space and theywant to be in that space.
Keith Greer, CFRE (13:41):
Absolutely.
I think that's really important, and you came in with a team
that was already established.
You inherited them, but you'vealso had to do some hiring for
some staff turnover.
That's happened.
So let's talk a little bitabout that term, cultural fit
and it kind of gets thrownaround a lot, but sometimes it
feels like shorthand for hiringpeople just like us.
(14:03):
How do you define cultural fitin a way that really fosters
diversity while keeping the teamconnected?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (14:10):
So similar to how I feel about belonging is
how I also think about culturalfit.
I believe that everyone isdifferent.
Everyone is deserving of dignityand regard, and we need to be
able to honor that and embracethat and be kind to one another.
(14:31):
And, honestly, I think, anothersort of non-negotiable if you
want to be a member of my teamin specific, like you need to at
least be supportive of oneanother and embrace the
differences that we sharetogether.
Otherwise I don't know thatthere's room for you on the team
, because I honestly feel likeif we can be amicable and kind
(14:56):
to each other and also be ableto have difficult discussions in
a cordial way or in a healthyway like that's what I want
that's only going to snowball onitself and continue to sort of
breed this cultural fit right.
And again, what that supportlooks like might not be what
(15:19):
support looks like to mydirector of philanthropy
operations, and so, knowingyourself sort of self-awareness
and others' awareness is goingto get you very far as you think
about embracing diversity andaccepting someone to be a part
of your culture.
And the other thing that Ithink people don't talk about is
(15:40):
that Culture shifts, like itevolves over time, and so I
think we need to be cognizant ofthat and and keep our finger on
the pulse of that shine throughone way or the other, because
people can sort of bring theirdiversity of thought and bring
(16:09):
their lived experiences to thetable in that work and as we
work together.
Keith Greer, CFRE (16:15):
I want to just highlight something you
were talking there about withself-awareness, and I think
that's something that we don'tdo enough of as people in
society in general.
I think there's a lot of usthat have this idea of, oh, I'm
absolutely self-aware, and thepeople who are proclaiming it
the loudest often are the leastself-aware folks out there.
(16:36):
But I know that you've put alot of thought into recognizing
and addressing the biases in thehiring processes in general,
and so what steps have you foundto be the most effective in
actively working against thosebiases and bringing in voices
and perspectives that the teammight be missing?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (16:55):
Right and I want to be abundantly clear.
I try to be as exemplary inthis as possible.
I'm not perfect and I'm stilltrying to formulate like what,
what this looks like for me, andso the first thing that I would
do, when you know that you'rein the process, prior to
beginning the hiring process, isyou really need to do like an
(17:17):
environmental analysis and likeliterally like, sit down and do
a SWOT analysis?
In what areas of yourfundraising shop are you lacking
?
Or, when it comes to a donorengagement person, like, what
are you truly looking for?
One of the things that I justas an example, our donor
(17:38):
engagement manager positionbecame open, I think at the end
of the year in which I started.
It was like December 2023.
And I knew that, with where wewere at in the leadership
transition that they had seen,is we really need somebody we
really need, like a seniormanager?
We don't need a manager.
We need a senior manager who'sdone the fundraising thing
(18:00):
before, who is not afraid to ask, who speaks the language and
has just has done the thingbefore, and so what we did was
we hired somebody who broughtthat additional experience and
spoke that language, and thathas served us well in the long
(18:21):
run.
So I think, first things first,you really need to understand
where your strengths andweaknesses are on your team,
what opportunities there are,and go from there.
All that to say, you have to gointo the hiring process knowing
that the best candidates arenot always going to look like
(18:41):
you, they're not going to talklike you do, they're going to
have completely different livedexperiences from you, and so it
can be really hard and worth it,worth the work.
But it's very hard as a hiringmanager sometimes to cut through
(19:02):
that noise.
And so what I would say is, asyou're assessing fitness for
your team, like don't be hastyto hire, like really sit, sit in
it and truly reflect.
Don't make a decision in, Iwould say, even like 72 hours.
(19:23):
Like it some thought and anyany um, implicit or like
subconscious biases that youknow you deal with.
Lean into that, because if youhave someone come through where
you're like I know for a factthat I have preferences and
biases and this person that I'mI'm interviewing doesn't look
(19:45):
like me at all lean into thatand truly listen to what they're
saying, because if you're nottruly listening in the interview
, they may be offering thestrength that you need to fill
this one gap and if you can'tget past you know what they look
like, or a word that they use,or the way they say something
(20:06):
like you are missing a greatopportunity.
And so I would say, when itcomes to hiring, truly listen,
assess where this person sort offits in the SWOT analysis and
take some time to think about it, like put thought into it.
And I think those are threereally good.
(20:29):
Those are the three tips Iwould give when hiring somebody
with you know the biases thatwe're becoming more aware of
that have shaped our society so,so deeply and so covertly.
You got to put your mind intoit and it's hard, but it's you
have to do it.
Keith Greer, CFRE (20:48):
You do, and I think that once you become
aware of them, it makes it mucheasier to go around them and to
work around them, because if youdon't know like you, you simply
don't know Right, and so thatit does.
It's really important to takethat time, to have that
self-reflective process and youknow, as a leader, you could be
(21:09):
vulnerable and share.
These are the biases that I'mworking with and dealing with
with your hiring team, but evenjust acknowledging them for
yourself and keeping it internalis a big step along the way.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So, once you have your team puttogether, fundraising is it
easy?
Probably not.
It's tough work.
(21:30):
Yeah, it's hard.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (21:31):
Listen, I, I so.
St Patrick's Center is a, aministry of Catholic charities
and our primary the folks thatwe serve are people who are
either dealing with homelessnessor near homelessness.
I have learned so much aboutpeople in that struggle in the
(21:54):
last year, year and a couplemonths, and there are days
fundraising is hard I want toacknowledge that and I feel like
sometimes it is even moredifficult for social service
fundraisers because while Idon't envy our staff, our
(22:15):
program staff, our case managers, the people who are on the
front lines with people who arestruggling with substance use
disorder, whether they'redealing with mental health
challenges, mental healthchallenges I don't envy that
Like that's a whole thing.
But there are times that I haveto tell you when somebody is
(22:35):
right outside my office, likeyelling and screaming on the
client deck because they arehaving the worst day of their
life, and understandably so,Like that, that can really cut
me to the core just toexperience some of the things
that I see walking into mybuilding.
It's tough.
We're not as exposed on theadministrative side as program
(23:00):
side, but it is still reallytough and you combine that with
sort of sometimes unreasonableexpectations and fundraising
goals from your leadership oryour board.
Luckily, I have not had thatproblem here, but it's either
that or sort of a unfortunateignorance for one for right, for
(23:24):
right, wrong, or indifferentabout what fundraising actually
is and like managing donorexpectations, like that's a
whole thing too.
So it is with the professionalchallenges that we have.
There's also sort of this extralayer of we have this job to do
serving this very vulnerablepopulation, and we we take that
(23:46):
with us as well.
Keith Greer, CFRE (23:47):
Yeah, as you were telling your story, it
reminded me of when I wasworking for hospice and we had
an inpatient care facilityprogram there and that's where
my office was located was inthat care center.
And I remember the first time Iwas sitting in my office and a
family was visiting and theirloved one passed away while they
(24:10):
were in the room and theimmediate and visceral wailing
that came out of that room athaving lost somebody that they
love and that they care about,and it reverberated and it
echoed down the halls.
And I'm sitting there in myoffice and it hit me so hard and
I just started crying because Iknew the pain that they were
(24:31):
going through.
And so it's such a hard thingfor so many people on the
program side, and as hard asfundraising is.
Like you, I thank my starsevery day that I am not on the
program side, because my heartwas not built to be able to
handle that.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (24:49):
I tell the program staff all the time I was
like I will shoot my shot withMackenzie Scott like every day
and ask her for, try to ask herfor 30 billion dollars, like I
don't.
I will do that before being acase manager because it takes a
special kind of person that Idon't think I could do that.
Keith Greer, CFRE (25:08):
No, no.
But one of the things that Ilove about you is that you find
moments worth celebrating everyday, Like that's one of your
superpowers.
So how do you keep your teammotivated and really proud of
their work?
By celebrating those wins thatare both really big, but also,
you know when those droughtshappen and you need to celebrate
(25:29):
the small wins.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (25:30):
Yeah, so I I feel like I have the capacity
and the ability and the strengthof bringing joy, so I I do that
anyway.
When others might not have thecapacity to do it, I try to
bring it as much as possible.
My office looks like apreschool classroom.
There's like Legos and Play-Dohand it's very bright and
colorful and just like I wantpeople to see me as sort of like
(25:53):
a fun, safe person, and so alot of that attitude and
approach I bring to myleadership style when things get
rough.
One of the probably the biggestchallenge for me as a senior
director of philanthropy thisyear was that we had sort of
(26:15):
underestimated orover-exaggerated some of the
funding that would be coming inthis year when we were building
our budgets, and so we learnedvery quickly in at the beginning
of the fiscal year that therewere some significant gaps and
so we had to do a reduction inforce.
We had to, we had to cutprograms like it.
(26:38):
It was really, it was reallybad.
And so on top of thatuncertainty, like I knew, the
pressure was on philanthropy tosort of do their part and just
giddy up and go, and so the onething I knew that would help
people feel that belonging andkeep up that belonging was by
(27:00):
sharing fundraising wins atevery Monday morning meeting.
So every Monday in the morningwe sort of have just a little
brief check-in five or tenminutes anyway just to get us
centered and like intentionalfor the work week During our
year-end campaign, when wereally had to up the ante, one
of the things that I hadeverybody do was bring sort of a
(27:25):
fundraising win to the meetingthat had maybe happened in the
week prior.
And so this was everything from,like I remembered my Razor's
Edge login every day last weekto you know this person who said
they don't ever want to meetwith me ever, you know, gave
(27:47):
twice the amount that they'vegiven in the past.
So just like celebrating thosewins, big and small, I think,
really helped build that joy,build that belonging, which then
in turn helped people on myteam to bring their best.
And again we have just sort ofthis snowball effect of joy and
(28:09):
motivation and belonging sort ofall feeding into that.
And I honestly I can't give allthe credit to that activity for
our year end fundraisingperformance, but at the end of
this year we almost doubled ourrevenue performance year and
then we've done in the pastthat's amazing.
(28:31):
Our initial goal was a milliondollars and I ran the numbers
today and we are still waitingon a couple of things, but we're
going to crack 1.9 million.
Keith Greer, CFRE (28:42):
That's absolutely incredible.
Congratulations thank you,thank you, that's a really big
deal and it takes a huge teameffort to make that possible.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (28:51):
So like kudos to your team too, like
it's hard work well, and also,too, like gratitude is a huge
part of it, like it's like thewins too, and you know I I joke,
um, that you tell them I'm likeyou're the best team ever and I
cry every day, like, because,like, but it's truly, it's like
(29:13):
they are truly such a great teamand I couldn't ask for a better
one, and so just just sort ofconstantly be in awe of them and
and be great, truly gratefulthat for the work that they do,
I think also is very much a gamechanger, I think, when it comes
to being a leader.
I know people are sort ofweirded out when I say this, but
(29:35):
like, I feel like I have a deepand abiding love for the people
that I lead.
It's like completely within therealm of HR propriety, it's not
like weird or anything likethat.
Keith Greer, CFRE (29:49):
Good to point out.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (29:50):
Right.
But like I truly love thesepeople and I am proud of them
when they do their best and whenthey do their worst, like I'm
still with them and I'm coachingthem and saying, okay, how can
we do this differently in thefuture?
What have we learned from this?
It's really how can we do thisdifferently in the future?
What have we learned from this?
No-transcript.
(30:12):
I truly love the people that Iwork with and I think that sort
of also translates into theleadership that I bring to the
table.
Keith Greer, CFRE (30:23):
And when you're really kind of bringing
that team together and you havea team that is so cohesive and
that's functioning so well andyou might have had just a brand
new hire that does not fit thetypical mold of your team, that
can be an incredible opportunityin itself, right, but how do
you go about onboarding somebodylike that, somebody who might
bring a unique style or a uniqueperspective and make sure that
(30:46):
they feel welcomed and that theteam stays cohesive as you bring
this disruptive force onto theteam?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (30:59):
bring this disruptive force onto the team.
Yeah, so I and again, I thinkit starts with that day one
interview, one-on-one type thingwhen I'm telling people that I
am here for you, I am youradvocate, I exist for you to be
the best version of yourself inyour role, and making sure that
that attitude and that mindsetpervades throughout the entire
(31:20):
team, that we are rooting foreach other.
Despite differences that we mayhave, the diversity that we
have, we still honor and respecteach other and we honor the
dignity in each other.
And sometimes if there issomeone who is sort of quote
unquote different from the norm,like that's okay, we value that
(31:43):
person and because they'redifferent, there is a strength
there.
And so, again, I think alsolike creating that safe space is
key in allowing people toexpress their unique styles and
perspectives.
Sometimes, in my experience,some reports are more than
(32:04):
willing to volunteer thatinformation to you, which is
great, that's fine.
Sometimes it takes time,sometimes you need to draw it
out or it comes out, and so, asa manager, you have to be ready
and curious either way, howeverlong it takes, but you have to
create that safe space that I'mleading by example for, but also
(32:26):
expecting the others on theteam to also uphold that safe
space and respect thedifferences of each other,
regardless of how like sidewaysdifferent this person is Like.
That's just.
That's the culture that weembrace.
Keith Greer, CFRE (32:45):
I'm just reflecting on that for a moment.
Yeah, because I think it'sreally important, and one of the
things that I think you and Ihave in common and that I really
respect is that I know that weboth care about helping our team
members really grow beyondtheir current roles.
Right, hopefully they're goingto grow into their next role
with us, but sometimes they'regoing to grow into their next
(33:07):
role with another organizationor into a whole new field that
they're not even thinking aboutright now.
How do you uncover what drivesyour team members and supports
their personal and theirprofessional aspirations, even
if their goal is to go beyondour organization?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (33:25):
So I think, when it comes to like
professional development, I liketo just ask them like what can
I provide you, what can I directyou to that would help you grow
in your job and make you abetter donor engagement
coordinator?
I'm always ready, willing andable to promote professional
(33:45):
membership organizations,different conferences, things of
that nature.
So, like we're entering budgetseason right now, one of the
things I'm going to ask my teamis okay, take some time and
think about okay, do you want anAFP membership next year?
Do you want to be able to go toAFP Icon?
(34:07):
What are your goals in the rolethat you're in and how can we
build into the budget thosethings that will help you to get
to where you are?
So part of it is being veryintentional about inviting them
to think about those things andalso by leading.
For example, I have a sign upin my office that says ask me
(34:31):
about AFP.
St Louis, I am the VP ofprofessional development for the
chapter this year and I loveall things AFP.
St Louis, I am the VP ofProfessional Development for the
chapter this year and I loveall things AFP and I will
advocate for that.
And so I would love to.
I would talk to any of thepeople on my team about AFP
membership and why it mattersand why it's helpful.
(34:53):
I'm also willing to talk to mycommunications team about
non-profit marketers networks.
So there's all these differentresources out there that, if I
can exemplify how helpful itmakes me in my professional
development, I want that to sortof be contagious as well, and
so when they want to pursuethose opportunities, I'm there
(35:15):
for them to help them figurethat out.
I will also say that I've hadpeople come to me to say you
know, I don't think I can dothis anymore.
I've hit my wall.
I can't do this.
Obviously, I can't helpsomebody if they don't tell me
that, but I also want people toknow that I do not judge them or
(35:41):
their journey in any waywhatsoever.
I had a team member who had leftearlier middle of last year.
She was interviewing for a joband she let me know about it and
we got to unpack a little bitmore sort of the challenges that
she had been facing, and so Iwas like, look I, I again exist
(36:05):
as your advocate to be the bestversion of yourself that you can
be, and sometimes that meanssetting you up for success for
the next thing I said if youfeel like you've hit a wall and
this interview falls through,let's take a look at your resume
(36:25):
, let's do some mock interviews.
I want to see the people that Ilead as more than a role on an
org chart.
These are people with goals andpersonal objectives and I feel
like if I'm not setting upsomebody for the next thing and
(36:47):
be successful, I'm not doing myjob as a manager.
It seems counterintuitive, butI truly feel like I'm not doing
my job if somebody wants to moveon or is feeling it or feeling
some kind of way, and they can'tcome to me and say look, here's
where I'm at.
Can you help me?
Keith Greer, CFRE (37:06):
Totally.
I think one of my proudestmoments as being a leader is
when people who have come in ata certain level and it's a
stretch for them at the timeright and you've helped develop
them and get them to wherethey're really thriving in that
role, and then you've helpedthem dream and imagine bigger
(37:26):
than where they're at and thenthey leave you for a much bigger
role than your organizationcould ever be able to do could
ever be able to do Like.
it's an amazing feeling to beable to watch that person
develop and have that win,because it's just, it's so great
.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (37:42):
Yeah, it's bittersweet.
I think one of the things thatI say is you know, if I hire you
in at a certain level, likeI'll be sad for you to leave me
for the next thing, but likethat's just a testament, I think
, to that person and to theleadership skills that I bring
as well.
Like if people are moving on tobigger and better.
(38:05):
that means that they're beingformed in some form or fashion
under my leadership, and that'sthat's a testament to the good
work that I do Absolutely, andif you have people that are
underneath you and are neverprogressing, I really take that
as a sign of kind of failure ofmy own leadership, in that, oh,
(38:26):
I am not doing what I need to doto help my team right.
And that goes not just on theindividual basis, but on the
team building too.
Team building itself can soundlike such a buzzword, and you
know it so much more than trustfalls and icebreakers, and so
what kind of team buildingpractices have you found that
genuinely are effective forboosting morale and really
(38:50):
keeping your team firing on allcylinders?
One of the things that I thinkreally helps people feel
connected to the team and bondedis giving folks agency in their
role as a part of thedepartment.
So one of the things that I didback in June of last year in
(39:15):
preparation for the new fiscalyear At the same time Catholic
Charities of St Louis and all ofits ministries have been
undergoing this strategic planprocess and so one of the things
that I did in, you know, in themonth leading up to the fiscal
year, I said I got everybody ina room and I said, hey, let's
(39:37):
spend a day reviewing thestrategic plan.
What can you as volunteercoordinator, for example, what
can you do in your role to helpus meet this pillar of the
strategic plan?
So it's getting everybody in aroom, giving them a seat at the
(39:58):
table, literally having themgive input and connecting their
role to the strategic plan,which oftentimes feels like
these things are 300 miles apart.
So what I try to do is bring ita lot closer to the team
beneath the leadership level andto help them own it, and I
(40:19):
think when that happens you growas a team together and you grow
sort of individually as well,that we're sort of we're all
shaping what this team lookslike moving forward.
Keith Greer, CFRE (40:31):
I think giving that buy-in and
empowering the team is really acritical piece of it, right, and
that's also a big piece of theprofessional development too,
because sometimes these peoplethat are participating in it
they've never had thatopportunity before and so they
don't.
It's a learning opportunity forthat.
And so one of the things thatwe had talked about was that
(40:53):
there's kind of a turning pointin our careers.
In the beginning it's a lot oflearning, it's a lot of anxiety
because we don't always knowwhat we're doing and we're kind
of making it up as we go along.
But there comes a point whenwe're hitting our stride, we've
got the rhythm, we kind of knowwhat's happening within our
roles, within our teams, andfundraising switches from that
(41:16):
thing that is stress and anxietyproducing and it actually
becomes fun.
When do you think that shifthappens and what's the secret to
keeping that fun energy alive?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (41:26):
I think that once you have created a
culture of gratitude, curiosity,appreciation, people start to
look at their work differently.
When you are applauding eachother because you've
successfully logged into Razor'sEdge every day last week, that
only highlights the really hugeand awesome wins.
(41:52):
And so really having thatlooking at things through a lens
of appreciation not necessarilybeing Pollyanna about stuff
because our work is very hardand seeing sort of the positive
in very hard work, Like once youget people into that habit and
changing their perspective onthe work that they're doing, and
(42:15):
showing your appreciation forthat hard work, that's, I think,
when it starts to get fun.
And I also will say too, it'snot all sunshine and puppies,
Like it's not, we're all goingto screw up and I think that it
is just as important to notnecessarily celebrate the wins.
(42:36):
But but like one of the thingsthat I've started doing is like
when absolutely unhinged stuffhappens at work, I think like
would this be in an episode ofthe office?
And like nine times out of tenit would definitely 100% be an
episode of the Office, becauseit is so like absurd and like,
(42:59):
yes, it sucks in the moment, butlike understanding that that's
just part of the job and thatit's something that you can look
back on and laugh andunderstand that even in that
moment you have a teamsupporting you.
That, I think, also is key, inaddition to supporting those
fundraising wins.
(43:19):
Like embracing failure as partof the process.
I've started doing thispractice called Spicy Meatballs,
where I'm keeping track of allof the upset donor
correspondence that I get.
Oh, so I'm like days withoutSpicy meatball and then I just
like I keep a tally of it, andwhen I when I get a donor who
gives it, sends me aparticularly unhinged
(43:42):
correspondence, I'm like, okay,wipe the slate clean, we're
starting back at zero.
So just like, poke fun at atlike something, poking fun at
the failure, Like that soundsawful, but like I fully also
endorse.
Like when you get thoseunhinged emails from a donor,
like everyone gather aroundwe're going to do a dramatic
(44:04):
reading of this absolutely wildemail that we got from this
donor and just like laugh at it,Because I mean, life is too
short to be hung up on failures.
And so I think, when you canembrace failure and really
genuinely celebrate all of thegood things about your job,
(44:27):
you're going to have fun,because failure is where we
really have our biggest learningopportunity 100% our biggest
learning opportunity.
Keith Greer, CFRE (44:34):
But oftentimes in those moments, if
we can, once we get through theinitial sting and then the
laughter, we can find thatkernel of truth and what the
message is right.
Yep, for sure, for sure.
Well, Bri, I had such a funafternoon with you, so thank you
for being on the podcast andsharing all about your team and
(44:55):
your hiring and your leadership.
It was really a wonderfulexperience to get to spend time
with you in Atlanta at the AFPLeadership Institute and I hope
that I get to see you again inperson soon.
Are you going to ICON this year?
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (45:08):
I will not be going to ICON, but I feel
like we should present somethingtogether at LEAD or ICON or
something in the future.
Keith Greer, CFRE (45:19):
Absolutely.
I think that would be so muchfun.
Let's do it.
I am in a hundred percent.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (45:24):
Awesome, let's go, let's go.
Keith Greer, CFRE (45:26):
Let's go Perfect.
Well, have a wonderful rest ofyour day and I'll look forward
to seeing you again at our nextquad squad cohort group for a
zoom call.
Bri Gervezske, CFRE (45:38):
Awesome.
Thanks for having me, Keith.
Thanks, bye-bye.
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