May 27, 2025 • 36 mins
We’re back with Season 5 of Let’s Talk Housing—and we have a new host! Join Mita Naidu, BC Housing's Director of Content Strategy, as she dives into the stories, people, and partnerships shaping housing across B.C. In this episode, we’re talking about BC Builds—a groundbreaking initiative tackling the housing crisis in British Columbia. The program uses under-used public land and strong partnerships to speed up rental housing development for middle-income earners. We also hear from Amal Abdullah, Project Coordinator at Renewable Cities. She worked on a detailed case study that breaks down how BC Builds works and the steps being taken to build homes faster across the province.
Learn more about BC Builds here: https://www.bcbuildshomes.ca/ Learn more about Renewables Cities here: https://www.sfu.ca/renewable-cities.html
Guests:
Lisa Helps, Executive Lead for BC Builds Project Origination and Process Innovation, BC Housing
Amal Abdullah, Project Coordinator, Value Added Housing and Renewable Cities, SFU
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
A home. It's something we all need.
(00:03):
But for too many, having a safe placeto make a home is out of reach.
The challenges can seem insurmountable.
And yet, each and every day,people are coming together
to provide safe, quality and affordablehousing for those in need.
Welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
I'm your host, Mita Naidu.
Join us as we listen toand learn from people in British
(00:26):
Columbia who are creating strong,inclusive communities
where everyone can thrive.
Welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
I'm your host, Mita Naidu.
I want to begin by acknowledgingand thanking the Coast Salish peoples
(00:47):
on whose unceded and traditional landsI live and work. In particular,
I offer my gratitude to the Kyuquot FirstNations on whose unceded lands I reside
and I'm recording today.
Today we are talking about BC Builds,a groundbreaking initiative
that's tacklingthe housing crisis in British Columbia
by using underutilized landand strategic partnerships
(01:09):
to accelerate rental housing developmentfor middle income earners.
Joining us today are Lisa Helps,
who is the Executive Lead of ProjectOrigination and Process Innovation at BC
Builds, and Amal Abdullah,who is the Project Coordinator
for Value Added Housingand Renewable Cities at SFU.
Welcome to you both.
(01:29):
Thank you.
Thanks, Mita.
Before we dive into the details, though,I'd love to hear a little bit
about what drew you, both of you,to the work you're doing in housing.
Why is this issuepersonally important to you?
Can I start with you, Lisa? Sure.
It really does come out of my work
as Mayor of Victoria,which was my previous, previous role.
(01:52):
And I saw firsthand
the challenges of getting housing builtfrom a municipal perspective,
and also the impacts from a middle incomeperspective, the impacts
to our small business communityto employers, to our hospitals,
that people who earn a half decent salary,were still not able to find a place
to live in Victoria, where I was Mayor,but also across the province.
(02:14):
And I feel the work that we're doing atBC Builds really excites me because
it's tangible.
It creates housing,which is obviously our mandate.
But it also adds to stronger communities,
more cohesive workplaces,more opportunities for families.
So I really... I feel like it's kind of...even though the focus is on housing, it's
(02:35):
a whole community building and economicdevelopment approach
to some of the crisis
that we're facing across the provinceand the country right now.
So it's really coming, borneout of your role as Mayor
and wanting to see a holistic approachto housing and community?
Yeah, absolutely.
I come at almost everythingfrom a systems point of view.
(02:55):
When we're working on one thing,we should actually be working on seven.
If we're doing a good job,
seven might be a bit of an exaggeration,but we should always...
I think, be multi solving, especiallywhen we've got so many intersecting crises
and that's what really excites meabout the work that we get to do here.
Amazing.
Thank you.
And what about you, Amal?What drew you to housing?
(03:16):
Yeah, a little bit of the same, actually.
Like thinking about housing as partof this complex and interconnected system.
That's like impactingso many parts of people's lives.
And so,I have a planning background.
So I'm always thinking aboutlike how housing affects,
like transportation and how housingaffects food systems and things like that.
(03:38):
And so when we think about housingand a housing crisis, it's not just,
about, like having a roof overyour head.
It's also about what access you have to food and
what modes of transportation you use.
And like how connectedyou feel to your neighbours
and how safe you feelin the event of an emergency.
Especially climate emergency.
And so, thinking about housingas a system and not just like a shelter
(04:03):
or like a roof oversomeone's head is what gets me excited.
It's very interesting to hearyou talk about planning.
My father, my latefather, was a city planner, an engineer,
and he also thought about housingin a very holistic and integrated way.
Religious institutions, grocery stores,walkable cities,
these were all things he was thinkingabout in the 70s and 80s as well.
(04:26):
So, yeah, this is somethingI'm really interested in as well.
Let's talk about BC Builds a bit.
It's been called a gamechanger in housing.
So Lisa, I'd like to open
up the conversation by askingif you could break down for our audience,
who may not necessarily know muchabout housing and development.
What makes BC Builds differentfrom traditional housing programs?
(04:47):
That's a great question.
One of the things that makes it different,and one of the things
that makes me quite excitedto continue to work on this program
in the typical development timeline,
it usually takes 3 to 5 yearsfrom the point at which,
land owner says, hey, I've got landand I want to build housing here
to the time that actually shovelsare in the ground and construction
(05:10):
starts. Three to 5 years, never mind the 2to 3 years that it actually takes
to build the building to people living in their home.
So fromI've got land to people living in a home,
it's about an eight year processand that is way too long.
It just is
for all of the reasonsthat we talked about
in our personal introductions,we're in the middle of a housing crisis.
(05:31):
We can't take that long.
And so what BC Builds does...
We are also looking towardsinnovative construction
methods, to try and shortenthe construction time.
And that will come.
But what we do right now iswe look at the pre-development process
and rather than workingone step at a time.
So first there's the landand then you develop the partnerships.
(05:52):
Then you go see the city and say okay,what's the zoning?
And then you start on the zoning approvalsand then maybe you find financing,
and then finally you've got construction
and you're doing all of those thingssequentially.
What we do with BC Builds,and if anyone wants to go to our website,
you can see our beautiful rocketship.
It's also in the casestudy that Amal wrote up.
We put everything inright at the beginning.
So we're working on partnerships,
we're working on feasibility,we're working on financial approvals.
(06:15):
We're working on zoning approvals.
We're working at... sometimes the contractor comes in very early on.
And so we put everything togetherkind of in this,
we call it our little rocket ship model.Everything comes in at the beginning.
We create a project accelerationcommittee.
And what really is exciting about thatis that everybody knows
everybody else's part,
because when you're workingin that linear way,
(06:36):
no one can seewhat everyone else is doing.
And that's one of the reasonsit takes long.
But if the architect understandswhat the planner needs
and the planner understandswhat the financing person needs,
it really acceleratesthe housing, the pre-development period.
So we've been able...the program's been around for a year,
and we've been ableto successfully compress
that 3 to 5 year timeline into 12 monthsin some cases to get project...
(06:58):
like we have aboutprobably 5 or 6 projects.
I was just looking at this today... already
under constructionand our program just launched a year ago.
That's amazing.
That's a super acceleration in my opinion.
Tell me more about this committeeat the front end.
We started off calling themproject steering committee meetings.
But then, actually as just very recentlyand my New Year's resolution is like,
(07:20):
wait a minute, these aren't steeringprojects, these are accelerating projects.
So we call themproject acceleration committees.
And it's kind of like,
a good analogy for folks
that also helps me...
It's kind of like a tech accelerator,right?
Like if somebody has a new ideafor a software or a new tech product,
they want to get to a minimumviable product as soon as possible
so that they can see, does this thingactually has merit in the market or not?
(07:43):
Am I going to makemoney? Is my solution useful?
And so everyone ralliesaround that problem
to try and figure out how to unpack itand get it to
what's called in the tech world, minimumviable product as soon as possible.
We're not trying to get to a minimumviable product.
We're trying to get to construction.
But it's the same methodology.
So we've got everybody thereat these project acceleration committee
meetings, and Amal attendedas a guest, to work on her case study.
(08:06):
So she might want to add in here as well.
But you've got sometimes the
Mayor and in smaller placesthe Mayor wants to be involved.
But somebody senior in the planningdepartment, sometimes the city manager
or sometimes the architect will be there.
Then there are us, as the folkswho are doing financing, sometimes, often
they'll have a development consultant
involved to help steward the processfrom a landowner's point of view.
(08:29):
If we're working with CMHC,we have them there.
And really the best way to describeit is an obstacle removal clearinghouse.
So rather thansomeone sending an email, someone replying
three weeks later because they've got 17other emails, everything gets triaged
in this project accelerationcommittee meeting.
There's a project tracker,there are action items, they get handed out
at the end of the meeting,and then two weeks or three weeks later,
(08:52):
we circle back, okay,what action have you taken
and what are you going to do in the next2 or 3 weeks?
So it's really kindof momentum building.
It's also really joyful.
It's really...it's a very joyful way to work.
I actually love that you just
added that in! Tell me more.Where is that joy coming from?
I think it's from the satisfactionof A, seeing how it's possible
(09:13):
to do things differently
because a lot of these folks they've been working in planning
departments, they've been workingin the development community
in some cases for 20 years.
And it's just like, oh, my goodness,we're doing something together.
And it's new.
And soI think there's some joy there, but also
just the satisfaction of...and there are some wicked problems.
I actually think like,no wonder we're in a housing crisis.
(09:34):
It is so difficult to get housing built,like even with a whole lot of people
who know what they're doing.
And so I think there's also joythat comes from wow, this is a...
like yeah, atthe beginning of a meeting.
Like, here's a really big problem.
How are we ever going to figure this out?
And then 45 minuteslater was everyone's brainpower together.
We've worked through itand that obstacle no longer exists.
And we can proceed.
(09:55):
I think there's some joyin that satisfaction as well.
That's amazing.
That's probably the first timeI've heard someone talk about
housing programsand joy in the same sentence.
I love it, I love it, Amal,what about you?
You and your team at SFU RenewableCities have written a case
study, as Lisa was alluding to, about the BC Builds program.
(10:15):
Can you talk about that and your processof putting it together and who it's for?
So my role is at
SFU Renewable Cities,we’re a special initiative of the SFU Centre
for Dialogue.
And this case study that we put together onBC Builds as a part of our value added
housing initiative. Now, at Renewable Cities,
(10:35):
we think of value addedhousing as housing developments
that bring together affordability,climate action and economic transition.
And we've done a little bit of
work on this before we started workingwith Lisa on the case study.
In that we released some other casestudies last year of nonprofit
and public groups who had, priorto the BC Builds program, put together
housing on their landfor their communities.
(10:57):
And since then, we've also hostedseveral workshops
with some of these groupswho are interested in exploring,
building housing on this land.
So when BC Builds was launchedin February 2024,
we heard that there was a lot of interestfrom groups about what BC Builds was.
And there were questions like,okay, well, BC Builds is a new program
and how is it differentfrom other housing programs
(11:17):
that the province or BC Housinghave launched previously?
And we also heardthat there was a lot of interest across
the country about like replicating the program.
And this interest particularly increased,
we heard, after the federal governmentannounced some funding around
Canada Builds,
which was intended to sort of like helpcreate BC Builds-like programs
across the country.
(11:37):
And so our team at Renewable Citieswas already doing some of this work,
with Lisa and some of our other partnerson non-traditional
housing developersbuilding housing on underutilized lands.
And so when BC Builds launched, we foundthat the program was actually addressing
some of the challengesthat we had identified in the case studies
that groups were experiencingwhen they had built housing on their land.
(12:00):
And we also found that,like some of the pieces of the program
were quite impactfuland, like, really important
for other jurisdictions in Canadato learn about
and for the housing sector herein BC to learn about, too.
And so we decided to do a deep diveinto the BC Builds program.
And so the case studyis really like a review
of the entire program,starting from even before it was launched.
(12:21):
And we put it together primarilyfor provincial,
regional, local and First Nationsgovernments to understand the program
and to replicate it.
But we're also hoping that the learningsthat are coming from BC Builds
that we've documented in the case
study can be replicatedto other housing programs here in BC, too.
So to learn aboutlike the behind the scenes of BC Builds,
(12:42):
I interviewed Lisa, I interviewedsome of her colleagues at BC Housing,
and the BCMinistry of Housing and Municipal Affairs.
And as Lisa said, I also dropped in onsome of the project's
acceleration meetings over a few monthsuntil I got to see how
the program was actually likebeing implemented in action.
In the case study, we sort of givelike a complete overview of the programs.
(13:04):
And so we talk about like
how do projects come into the BC Builds program?
What are the financialand legal arrangements often like?
What are the agreements the BC Builds usesto disperse the funds to projects?
Something else we highlight in the casestudy is
what are all the steps that Lisa andher team took to put together the program?
Like what was the engagement process
(13:25):
like? Their process of like getting a senseof what lands are available,
for the program and those sorts of pieces.
And we also highlight how BC Builds isdifferent from other BC Housing programs.
And so, Lisa mentioned the rocket ship,and that accelerated timeline.
And we highlight that and also like,
the partnership modeland what that looks like.
That's a lot of work.
(13:46):
That's amazing.
From a renewable cities angle.
Lisa spoken about the benefitsof the program from her perspective
and her lens.
From your perspective,what are the impacts of this program?
So when I was, talking to Lisaand some of her colleagues,
one thing that really stood out to meabout BC Builds was like
the very strong engagement processthat went behind the program's design.
(14:09):
And so Lisa will tell you,
and she told mewhen we were talking about,
when she first started in thisrole and started thinking about BC Builds,
she tapped into some of those networksthat she had built in her role as Mayor
and like, talk to anybody who mightpotentially be involved in the program.
And so I remember there were conversationswith First Nations groups
or conversations with Mayorsand universities and health authorities
(14:32):
and really anyone else who mightpotentially be involved in the program.
And she went and really listened to them
and asked them and said,what do you need from a program like this?
And I feel that that's very usefuland impactful because
instead of just making a program,
writing up a program, and assuming thatwhat you have in mind is going to work,
you're actuallygoing out into community and asking,
(14:53):
what do you need from usto make this program useful for you?
And, I feel thatlike if you're in the long term,
if you're evaluating
the impact of a program, the outcomeswill probably be stronger.
If you have that strong engagementprocess.
That went into the program's design.
And Lisa was also talking about how it really clarified for the team,
(15:15):
too, about what's important to advocatefor, to include in the program,
and what to sort of like park for later
and come back to becauseit's not as important to the community.
Deep listening and community
engagement are something that I'mvery passionate about too.
And as I kind of touched on the project
in the very early stages,that's something I loved about it
(15:37):
also was the deep listeningand Lisa does do deep listening, for sure.
That's something I know about her as well.
I'm going to just kind of
veer into that area of communityand community engagement.
Housing development often meetsresistance in community.
We know this. So what were some of
the particular waysthe BC Builds engaged with communities
(15:59):
to ensure projects are alignedwith those local needs?
Either to you or to Lisa?
Sure. I'll jump in.
One of the waysthat we can accelerate
is that we rely on our partnersto get the zoning in place
almost always before we get engaged,sometimes not.
(16:19):
And so most of our partnersthat have come through our housing
development opportunities platform,which if people want to Google,
they should. There's somereally interesting work happening there.
But the municipalities do the work ofworking with their communities.
They know their communities best.
They get the land zoned,and then bring it to us.
And so that kind of tablehas been set.
(16:40):
In other cases,we are working on a few large,
complex projectswhere zoning is not yet in place.
And, it is really important to,particularly
when it comes to zoningor an official community plan
amendment, to make sure the communityfeels engaged and informed.
And also and again, I can say this
because I sat at a municipal counciltable for 11 years, eight years as Mayor.
(17:04):
It's also importantwhen the decision comes to council
for them to make that they have... whichevercouncil it might be across the province,
the courage to look 50 yearsdown the road and say,
yes, there are ten or 20 or 50 people
who are here tonight who are unhappywith this housing being built,
but the 300 peoplewho are going to benefit
(17:25):
from it, that are going to move inwhen this building opens
and then multiply that out50 or 60 or 70 years.
It does take political courage to makethose decisions when the time comes.
But we try with our partnersto do a really good job of informing
neighbours, holding info sessions,sending mailers out,
all of those things to make sure that... we're
(17:46):
never going to get everyone to agree,but at least that people feel informed
and that they've had an opportunityto give their input.
And most
of our work isn't that. Most of our workis working with pre zoned land
where the municipalities,
our partners have done the hard workin the first place, which
I think it would be greatto talk a little bit about our partners
and partnerships, because that's reallythe secret sauce of the program.
(18:10):
For sure.
And I definitely want to get into that.
And this kind of segues into that.
But what role do municipalities and FirstNations play in shaping these projects?
Well, they are their projects,and that's where, to Amal’s point
when we went out across the provinceand asked everyone who we thought
might be interested,what do you need this program to do?
(18:31):
One of the key thingswe heard from First Nations,
from municipalities, from healthauthorities, from boards of education,
is we have land, we have a housing need.
We know our community needs housing,but we are not housing developers.
We don't have the capacity to develophousing because we're doing XYZ.
That other thing for our nationor our community or our school district.
And so what we need is a programthat will give us the capacity
(18:55):
or provide the capacityto us to actually turn
our vacant landinto new housing for our community.
We heard loud and clearthat that is what was needed.
And so we really built the programaround those needs.
And so First Nations, municipalities,churches, those are our three
main partners right now.
(19:16):
We were doing some preliminary workwith health authorities
and some exploratory conversationswith school districts.
Their role is providing the land.
And then reallythey're the muscle in some ways
behind this project acceleration workand the project acceleration committees,
they need to commit,they need to show up and they need to
workto remove every obstacle that comes up.
(19:37):
And they're doing it, like it's amazing.
We've been working with smallIndigenous communities
in the north, large citiesin Metro Vancouver and everybody
in between, and all of the landownersshow up with that same can-do approach
that they've put their land in, and nowthey want to get housing built quickly.
And we, the BC Builds team, kind of putsome of that capacity around their desire.
(19:58):
Right.
That's amazing.
It's very participatory.
It's very proactive in that. Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah.
So we're talking about municipalities,
landowners, nonprofits, faith groups,First Nations.
Amal, maybe you could talk abouthow this everyone
at the table modelcontributes to better projects.
(20:21):
So I sat in on some of these projectacceleration meetings
where everyone was at the tableand this was a little bit earlier
when BC Builds was new
and none of the projects had yetcome to the construction phase.
And I remember Lisa telling me, well,if you want to understand
BC Builds, you have to see it in action.
You can't just hear me talk about it or
(20:42):
readthe website that we have.
You need to really seewhat groups are experiencing
when they go through the program.
And so I sat in on these meetingssort of like as a fly on the wall,
and I was just observingand taking notes on what was happening.
And in that process,I was really able to see how, like,
in real time,these groups were able to come together.
All the different partners
(21:03):
in a development projectwere able to come together and problem
solve on issuesin real time that came up in the project.
And we list some of the examples of whatthat looked like in the case study,
but as an example...
So, one project that I was sitting inon was a meeting where the architect
was presenting two different designsof a building, and all
the different partners in the projectwere at that meeting together.
(21:27):
And there was a landowner,there was the city planner,
Lisa and her team were there.
And so everyone was just sort of liketalking through
the design and sayingfor example, the landowner was like,
okay, well, what if we moved the communitykitchen to like a more central space?
So other users in the building can use it?
And the city planner was like,okay, well, what if we
like add a few parking spots hereor remove them from here?
(21:50):
What if we play around with thata little bit?
And everyone was bringing the piecesthat they needed from the project
at the same time, at this meeting together,
and just sort of like talking through it.
And of course, like anyone who's familiarwith the development process knows that
not having thatspace is one of the things
that can really make a project timelineso much longer.
And like everyone was justbringing in the pieces that they needed
(22:13):
and problem solving together.
There's a section in the case
study, in fact, whereI asked all the groups that I sat in
on, I asked them, what are you findinguseful about the space?
And people talkedabout all the ways that it made
their jobso much easier.
Just like quick check insconsistently
over like over the period of timelinejust made their job
(22:35):
so much easier.
And also it like helped buildtrust between the different groups, right?
Because even if groups weren'table to necessarily find the solution
that they were looking for in thein the project, just having that space
to problem solve was able to helpbuild them trust with one another.
Another amazing word that's popped up inthis conversation is trust, right?
(22:58):
So I love that also.
Lisa, Amal’s been talking about
the benefits of the pieces of the process
to partners, can you walk us through
an actual real worldexample of a BC Builds project?
Kind of from land identificationto groundbreaking for someone
that's unfamiliar,
but would want to bring forward a project.
(23:19):
There are two separate ways.
So maybe I'll talk about...
why don't I just lay out the two pathwaysin for public stream projects.
And then I'm going to give an example
of one of our projects,kind of from start to groundbreaking.
So the two waysthat projects can come in
is just simply approach BC Builds and say, hey, we've got land or
we'd like to build housingfor middle income households and families.
(23:42):
And in some cases, the landownerwill already have a development partner,
and in some casesand so that's pathway one.
You've got land,you've got a development partner.
And then we start to work through your project proforma.
How does this work?
What rents will you need to charge?
How are you going to cover the mortgageetc., etc..
What are your construction costs?
So that’s pathway one.
(24:03):
Partner comes with a developmentpartner and they're ready to go.
Pathway two is you've got landand it's zoned and you'd like to hand it
over to BC Buildsto find you a development partner.
Or in some casesyou've got land and it's zoned
and you may have a nonprofitthat you have in mind to own
and operate that housing,but you don't have anyone to build it.
(24:23):
So those are the two pathways.
One is the direct intake
and the other is through our housingdevelopment opportunities platform.
And again, for peoplewho are interested in that, Google it.
It's quite innovativein that we kind of act
as a bit of a broker. For peoplewho are interested in that pathway,
I'd encourage them to go
look at the site, look at the propertyopportunity notices that are posted.
(24:45):
You can see how it works, what municipalities or landowners
need to tell us, what kinds of questionsthe development community is asking
so that is one pathway.
And I would say probably about halfour projects have come in that way.
The project that I'm going to focuson to walk through is it
came in through the first pathway.
So the city of North Vancouver
(25:05):
came to us early on,even before I was working at BC Builds...
And I guess just for transparency,I was the Mayor of Victoria.
And then for a year,I was the Housing Solutions Advisor
to Premier Eby with the task ofsetting up BC Builds.
So before I got to BC Builds,I was in the Premier's office
and that's where all this engagement
and everything elsethat I'm always talking about happened.
(25:26):
And so through that engagement processout in the community across the province,
asking generally,what do you need the program to do?
And then people started saying,well, when's it starting? I've got land.
And so City of North Vancouver was oneof the first ones through the door.
They have an old one storyneighbourhood house
that delivers amazingprograms to their community.
The building was built,I think, in the 60s at end of life.
(25:48):
And they weren't planning in their citycapital plan
to build a new neighbourhoodhouse until 2028.
But they did have some land.
And so they said, well, wait a minute, can
we put a new neighbourhood house underneathand can we put housing on top?
And so we started havingthose conversations probably, I think like
very early kind of summer of 2023,just like at the idea stage.
(26:13):
And then by December of 2023,the city council had engaged Catalyst
as their development partner, whothey were working on another project with.
So they had that relationship.
And then we got involved,I think the project acceleration
committee meetingsbegan in January of 2024.
(26:33):
And then we just we walked through...the land was zoned already,
but it's a mass timber building,so it's very complex, 18 storeys
with three storeys of community space
on the first three floors and 15 stories of housing on top.
So the design process happened.
The project was led by the city'sdeputy city manager,
(26:54):
and the head finance guy,
and some folksfrom in the planning department.
And that project worked like all of the kudos for that project
go to the staff at the City
of North Vancouverand the folks at Catalyst Development.
And this one was a bi-weekly projectacceleration committee meeting.
Because it was such a complex project,so many players,
(27:15):
the cityhad to go in the middle of the process
and go to the public and ask to borrow$50 million, for their portion.
And the public thankfully said yes.
And now it's February of 2025.
We started in January 2024and they are under construction
like that project started constructiona couple of weeks ago.
And it's just that kind of a walkthrough, every two weeks for a whole year.
(27:40):
It seems like so much time.
But it actually,...that project
would usually take 3 to 5 yearsjust to get to construction.
Wow. That's amazing.
That's truly amazing. Yeah.
Even the public consultation process,this was still within a year.
Well, the land was already zoned.
So that's key likethat is really key.
(28:01):
So the public consultation processhad happened some time ago
whenever the city tookthe proactive step to zone the land.
But the public,there was definitely that added step
of convincing the publicthat $50 million was a good idea to spend.
So yeah, that's true.
There was that public consultationon the money side for the city.
Amazing, amazing.
(28:21):
So collaboration, courage, joy.
Speed. And trust.
And trust. Right.
Like amazing componentsto an exceptionally unique program.
How do you see this kind of programinfluencing the future
of housing development, Lisa, in Canada?
I never want to be toorah rah rah BC Builds.
And so, Barb,from the City of North Vancouver,
(28:44):
we actually held a session at,I believe it was the Housing
Central Conference where we invitedone of our private partners,
one of our public partners,and one of our nonprofit partners
so three different groups,and asked them to talk about
all the thingsthat we're talking about here,
but also what are some of the challenges,because it can't all be as good
(29:05):
as we're talking about.
So I will answer your question,but some of the challenges are
that it really does require staff,
at the municipality or the First Nationto prioritize the project, which means
that they are deprioritizing other thingsso that can be challenging.
It requires peopleto stretch out of their comfort zones,
(29:26):
and out of their regular line of worksometimes.
So that can also be a challenge.
And then just the pace,
like going at that pace.
We've really tried hardnot to miss things,
but sometimes,we're moving so quickly.
And this is why the case study that Amaldid was so useful.
We're moving so quickly.
What are the things that we would havedone differently had we taken more time?
(29:47):
And then a learning on that projectcan go to the next project and say,
okay, wait, even though we're movingquickly, we need to do this thing.
So there's some learnings that can come.
But I think those aresome of the challenges. In terms of how
this has the potential to impactthe way that housing is built.
We did a survey of our partners,and actually, I don't even think
(30:09):
I've shared this with Amal.
We did a surveyof all of our public stream partners,
at the end of year one and asked themwhat worked,
what didn't work,what can we do better, what's useful?
And, what will you take from BC Builds
to inform other parts of your workor other parts of housing development?
And so I think part of what BC Buildscan offer and I'm again,
(30:30):
Amal’s work is so important for the scalingup in the transformational piece
is that it is actually possibleto compress that predevelopment timeline.
It is actually possibleto get housing built faster.
It is.
And so one of the key thingsthat people said
they would take from their workwith BC Builds to other projects
in their municipalitiesor First Nations or in the private sector
(30:52):
are these project accelerationcommittee meetings like that is a key tool
that has a potentialto be transformational.
So I do think it's possible for BC Buildsto have an influence
just beyond our programby A, everyone reading Amal’s case study
and seeing how the work happens,
but B, using some of the toolsthat we've created for our purpose
and translating them to other purposesfor both housing projects
(31:14):
and other kinds of community projects,or development projects as well.
These intersections are critical.
That's I think
the proof is here that these intersectionsand collaborations are critical.
What advice, Lisa,
would you give other provinces or citiestrying to replicate this?
Amal and the SFU folks,their case study is really good.
(31:35):
Like, they did a really good job.
I think they asked us the right questions.
They asked the provincethe right questions.
They pointed out some of the challenges.
They pointed out some of the thingsthat we did well before we started
and the things that probablywe could have done better.
So, yeah,I guess the advice that I would give is,
it is possible, we are living proof.
And that no crisis
(31:58):
is going to be resolved withouta different way of working together.
We're in a housing crisisbecause we've been building
housing the same wayfor the last hundred years.
Both on the pre-development side, and the construction side.
So if we keep doing the same things,we're not going to fast track, and then,
yeah, just the collaboration and the trustand the joy are just really
(32:19):
it's a new way of working togetherthat actually feels good.
And work is hardand building things is hard.
It's really, really hard.
And so creating these committees,these project acceleration committees,
where people have a shared purpose,
they have a shared goal,they have a shared timeline.
It is very motivating.
(32:40):
So there's no...this is actually kind of interesting.
There's no shortcutsto a project acceleration committee.
Like, you have to show up.You have to collaborate.
You have to be willingto change your position
if somebody in
the group has a better idea,you have to be willing to problem solve.
That's some of the advicethat I would give.
It's hard work. Like it is not easy.
(33:00):
Right.
I mean, it sounds extremely complicatedbut extremely rewarding.
Yeah. And that's the gift.
Before we wrap up, Amal,you've talked about the work
around BC Builds,but what are some of the other projects
that Renewable Citiesis working on around housing?
Yeah, thanks for asking.
So the goal of our work at RenewableCities isn't just to build more housing
(33:23):
for its own sake, but to really createexcellent housing that serves
people's needs to be connectedto their communities
and also live within the planet's limits.
And so the BC Builds case
study is one way that we're thinkingabout excellent housing.
And we're
also thinking about social connectednessand climate resilience in housing design.
So another initiativethat we're working on in collaboration
(33:43):
with Hey Neighbour Collective and HappyCities is called Housing That Connects Us.
And I'll give you an exampleof what we're doing there.
But the critical questionthat we're asking about in that initiative
is, how do we transform our existinghousing spaces
to better servethe needs of the residents who live there?
So if you take the exampleof a three storey walk up apartment
building, for example,they're often older,
(34:05):
but they have more affordablerental stock.
And they often also have like a very largeset back or a lawn
that surrounds them that has grass.
But it's not very engagingor used very often by the residents.
And in cases like those,we're asking questions like,
well, what could happenif we created a garden space
that offers a chance for residentsto meet each other there?
(34:25):
And what if there's
also a rain garden in therefor managing stormwater on the property?
Can we do something like
creatinga little seating nook in a corridor
so that residents have,like, a little space
to gather and have conversationsand get to know each other better?
And how does that help themget to know their neighbours?
And check in the next time an extreme heat event rolls around, for example.
(34:47):
So what we're really asking is,what are all the different ways
that we can make our housing designmore socially connected
and climate resilienceto create those connections,
and make housingreally excellent for everyone?
And that's something we'll be exploringover the next few months
in that initiative.
Amazing.
This is a beautiful connection point,
(35:07):
between BC Builds and SFU,but also between Lisa
and you, Amal. I think this is a really coolrelationship.
Thank you both forthis really insightful conversation.
And listeners, if you want to learn more,check out BC Builds
website and Amal’s case study on the website.
Is it on the website right now?
(35:28):
Amal?
It's on the SFU Renewable Cities website.
Well, but we should put it on our website.
What is wrong with us?
That’s what came to mind right now for me too.
We've got to go on our website andactually we can help with that.
Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
Action item.
I’ll write to Allie right away and get it up there.
Yeah. Exactly.
And as always stay curiousand stay engaged and see you next time.
(35:54):
To learn more about BC Housing,
including how to apply for subsidizedhousing in British Columbia.
Visit www.BChousing.org.
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If you enjoyed this episode,give us a rating.
This will help others find
Let's TalkHousing and join the conversation.
(36:17):
You can subscribe to Let's TalkHousing on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
A home. It's something we all need.
(00:03):
But for too many, having a safe placeto make a home is out of reach.
The challenges can seem insurmountable.
And yet, each and every day,people are coming together
to provide safe, quality and affordablehousing for those in need.
Welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
I'm your host, Mita Naidu.
Join us as we listen toand learn from people in British
(00:26):
Columbia who are creating strong,inclusive communities
where everyone can thrive.
Welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
I'm your host, Mita Naidu.
I want to begin by acknowledgingand thanking the Coast Salish peoples
(00:47):
on whose unceded and traditional landsI live and work. In particular,
I offer my gratitude to the Kyuquot FirstNations on whose unceded lands I reside
and I'm recording today.
Today we are talking about BC Builds,a groundbreaking initiative
that's tacklingthe housing crisis in British Columbia
by using underutilized landand strategic partnerships
(01:09):
to accelerate rental housing developmentfor middle income earners.
Joining us today are Lisa Helps,
who is the Executive Lead of ProjectOrigination and Process Innovation at BC
Builds, and Amal Abdullah,who is the Project Coordinator
for Value Added Housingand Renewable Cities at SFU.
Welcome to you both.
(01:29):
Thank you.
Thanks, Mita.
Before we dive into the details, though,I'd love to hear a little bit
about what drew you, both of you,to the work you're doing in housing.
Why is this issuepersonally important to you?
Can I start with you, Lisa? Sure.
It really does come out of my work
as Mayor of Victoria,which was my previous, previous role.
(01:52):
And I saw firsthand
the challenges of getting housing builtfrom a municipal perspective,
and also the impacts from a middle incomeperspective, the impacts
to our small business communityto employers, to our hospitals,
that people who earn a half decent salary,were still not able to find a place
to live in Victoria, where I was Mayor,but also across the province.
(02:14):
And I feel the work that we're doing atBC Builds really excites me because
it's tangible.
It creates housing,which is obviously our mandate.
But it also adds to stronger communities,
more cohesive workplaces,more opportunities for families.
So I really... I feel like it's kind of...even though the focus is on housing, it's
(02:35):
a whole community building and economicdevelopment approach
to some of the crisis
that we're facing across the provinceand the country right now.
So it's really coming, borneout of your role as Mayor
and wanting to see a holistic approachto housing and community?
Yeah, absolutely.
I come at almost everythingfrom a systems point of view.
(02:55):
When we're working on one thing,we should actually be working on seven.
If we're doing a good job,
seven might be a bit of an exaggeration,but we should always...
I think, be multi solving, especiallywhen we've got so many intersecting crises
and that's what really excites meabout the work that we get to do here.
Amazing.
Thank you.
And what about you, Amal?What drew you to housing?
(03:16):
Yeah, a little bit of the same, actually.
Like thinking about housing as partof this complex and interconnected system.
That's like impactingso many parts of people's lives.
And so,I have a planning background.
So I'm always thinking aboutlike how housing affects,
like transportation and how housingaffects food systems and things like that.
(03:38):
And so when we think about housingand a housing crisis, it's not just,
about, like having a roof overyour head.
It's also about what access you have to food and
what modes of transportation you use.
And like how connectedyou feel to your neighbours
and how safe you feelin the event of an emergency.
Especially climate emergency.
And so, thinking about housingas a system and not just like a shelter
(04:03):
or like a roof oversomeone's head is what gets me excited.
It's very interesting to hearyou talk about planning.
My father, my latefather, was a city planner, an engineer,
and he also thought about housingin a very holistic and integrated way.
Religious institutions, grocery stores,walkable cities,
these were all things he was thinkingabout in the 70s and 80s as well.
(04:26):
So, yeah, this is somethingI'm really interested in as well.
Let's talk about BC Builds a bit.
It's been called a gamechanger in housing.
So Lisa, I'd like to open
up the conversation by askingif you could break down for our audience,
who may not necessarily know muchabout housing and development.
What makes BC Builds differentfrom traditional housing programs?
(04:47):
That's a great question.
One of the things that makes it different,and one of the things
that makes me quite excitedto continue to work on this program
in the typical development timeline,
it usually takes 3 to 5 yearsfrom the point at which,
land owner says, hey, I've got landand I want to build housing here
to the time that actually shovelsare in the ground and construction
(05:10):
starts. Three to 5 years, never mind the 2to 3 years that it actually takes
to build the building to people living in their home.
So fromI've got land to people living in a home,
it's about an eight year processand that is way too long.
It just is
for all of the reasonsthat we talked about
in our personal introductions,we're in the middle of a housing crisis.
(05:31):
We can't take that long.
And so what BC Builds does...
We are also looking towardsinnovative construction
methods, to try and shortenthe construction time.
And that will come.
But what we do right now iswe look at the pre-development process
and rather than workingone step at a time.
So first there's the landand then you develop the partnerships.
(05:52):
Then you go see the city and say okay,what's the zoning?
And then you start on the zoning approvalsand then maybe you find financing,
and then finally you've got construction
and you're doing all of those thingssequentially.
What we do with BC Builds,and if anyone wants to go to our website,
you can see our beautiful rocketship.
It's also in the casestudy that Amal wrote up.
We put everything inright at the beginning.
So we're working on partnerships,
we're working on feasibility,we're working on financial approvals.
(06:15):
We're working on zoning approvals.
We're working at... sometimes the contractor comes in very early on.
And so we put everything togetherkind of in this,
we call it our little rocket ship model.Everything comes in at the beginning.
We create a project accelerationcommittee.
And what really is exciting about thatis that everybody knows
everybody else's part,
because when you're workingin that linear way,
(06:36):
no one can seewhat everyone else is doing.
And that's one of the reasonsit takes long.
But if the architect understandswhat the planner needs
and the planner understandswhat the financing person needs,
it really acceleratesthe housing, the pre-development period.
So we've been able...the program's been around for a year,
and we've been ableto successfully compress
that 3 to 5 year timeline into 12 monthsin some cases to get project...
(06:58):
like we have aboutprobably 5 or 6 projects.
I was just looking at this today... already
under constructionand our program just launched a year ago.
That's amazing.
That's a super acceleration in my opinion.
Tell me more about this committeeat the front end.
We started off calling themproject steering committee meetings.
But then, actually as just very recentlyand my New Year's resolution is like,
(07:20):
wait a minute, these aren't steeringprojects, these are accelerating projects.
So we call themproject acceleration committees.
And it's kind of like,
a good analogy for folks
that also helps me...
It's kind of like a tech accelerator,right?
Like if somebody has a new ideafor a software or a new tech product,
they want to get to a minimumviable product as soon as possible
so that they can see, does this thingactually has merit in the market or not?
(07:43):
Am I going to makemoney? Is my solution useful?
And so everyone ralliesaround that problem
to try and figure out how to unpack itand get it to
what's called in the tech world, minimumviable product as soon as possible.
We're not trying to get to a minimumviable product.
We're trying to get to construction.
But it's the same methodology.
So we've got everybody thereat these project acceleration committee
meetings, and Amal attendedas a guest, to work on her case study.
(08:06):
So she might want to add in here as well.
But you've got sometimes the
Mayor and in smaller placesthe Mayor wants to be involved.
But somebody senior in the planningdepartment, sometimes the city manager
or sometimes the architect will be there.
Then there are us, as the folkswho are doing financing, sometimes, often
they'll have a development consultant
involved to help steward the processfrom a landowner's point of view.
(08:29):
If we're working with CMHC,we have them there.
And really the best way to describeit is an obstacle removal clearinghouse.
So rather thansomeone sending an email, someone replying
three weeks later because they've got 17other emails, everything gets triaged
in this project accelerationcommittee meeting.
There's a project tracker,there are action items, they get handed out
at the end of the meeting,and then two weeks or three weeks later,
(08:52):
we circle back, okay,what action have you taken
and what are you going to do in the next2 or 3 weeks?
So it's really kindof momentum building.
It's also really joyful.
It's really...it's a very joyful way to work.
I actually love that you just
added that in! Tell me more.Where is that joy coming from?
I think it's from the satisfactionof A, seeing how it's possible
(09:13):
to do things differently
because a lot of these folks they've been working in planning
departments, they've been workingin the development community
in some cases for 20 years.
And it's just like, oh, my goodness,we're doing something together.
And it's new.
And soI think there's some joy there, but also
just the satisfaction of...and there are some wicked problems.
I actually think like,no wonder we're in a housing crisis.
(09:34):
It is so difficult to get housing built,like even with a whole lot of people
who know what they're doing.
And so I think there's also joythat comes from wow, this is a...
like yeah, atthe beginning of a meeting.
Like, here's a really big problem.
How are we ever going to figure this out?
And then 45 minuteslater was everyone's brainpower together.
We've worked through itand that obstacle no longer exists.
And we can proceed.
(09:55):
I think there's some joyin that satisfaction as well.
That's amazing.
That's probably the first timeI've heard someone talk about
housing programsand joy in the same sentence.
I love it, I love it, Amal,what about you?
You and your team at SFU RenewableCities have written a case
study, as Lisa was alluding to, about the BC Builds program.
(10:15):
Can you talk about that and your processof putting it together and who it's for?
So my role is at
SFU Renewable Cities,we’re a special initiative of the SFU Centre
for Dialogue.
And this case study that we put together onBC Builds as a part of our value added
housing initiative. Now, at Renewable Cities,
(10:35):
we think of value addedhousing as housing developments
that bring together affordability,climate action and economic transition.
And we've done a little bit of
work on this before we started workingwith Lisa on the case study.
In that we released some other casestudies last year of nonprofit
and public groups who had, priorto the BC Builds program, put together
housing on their landfor their communities.
(10:57):
And since then, we've also hostedseveral workshops
with some of these groupswho are interested in exploring,
building housing on this land.
So when BC Builds was launchedin February 2024,
we heard that there was a lot of interestfrom groups about what BC Builds was.
And there were questions like,okay, well, BC Builds is a new program
and how is it differentfrom other housing programs
(11:17):
that the province or BC Housinghave launched previously?
And we also heardthat there was a lot of interest across
the country about like replicating the program.
And this interest particularly increased,
we heard, after the federal governmentannounced some funding around
Canada Builds,
which was intended to sort of like helpcreate BC Builds-like programs
across the country.
(11:37):
And so our team at Renewable Citieswas already doing some of this work,
with Lisa and some of our other partnerson non-traditional
housing developersbuilding housing on underutilized lands.
And so when BC Builds launched, we foundthat the program was actually addressing
some of the challengesthat we had identified in the case studies
that groups were experiencingwhen they had built housing on their land.
(12:00):
And we also found that,like some of the pieces of the program
were quite impactfuland, like, really important
for other jurisdictions in Canadato learn about
and for the housing sector herein BC to learn about, too.
And so we decided to do a deep diveinto the BC Builds program.
And so the case studyis really like a review
of the entire program,starting from even before it was launched.
(12:21):
And we put it together primarilyfor provincial,
regional, local and First Nationsgovernments to understand the program
and to replicate it.
But we're also hoping that the learningsthat are coming from BC Builds
that we've documented in the case
study can be replicatedto other housing programs here in BC, too.
So to learn aboutlike the behind the scenes of BC Builds,
(12:42):
I interviewed Lisa, I interviewedsome of her colleagues at BC Housing,
and the BCMinistry of Housing and Municipal Affairs.
And as Lisa said, I also dropped in onsome of the project's
acceleration meetings over a few monthsuntil I got to see how
the program was actually likebeing implemented in action.
In the case study, we sort of givelike a complete overview of the programs.
(13:04):
And so we talk about like
how do projects come into the BC Builds program?
What are the financialand legal arrangements often like?
What are the agreements the BC Builds usesto disperse the funds to projects?
Something else we highlight in the casestudy is
what are all the steps that Lisa andher team took to put together the program?
Like what was the engagement process
(13:25):
like? Their process of like getting a senseof what lands are available,
for the program and those sorts of pieces.
And we also highlight how BC Builds isdifferent from other BC Housing programs.
And so, Lisa mentioned the rocket ship,and that accelerated timeline.
And we highlight that and also like,
the partnership modeland what that looks like.
That's a lot of work.
(13:46):
That's amazing.
From a renewable cities angle.
Lisa spoken about the benefitsof the program from her perspective
and her lens.
From your perspective,what are the impacts of this program?
So when I was, talking to Lisaand some of her colleagues,
one thing that really stood out to meabout BC Builds was like
the very strong engagement processthat went behind the program's design.
(14:09):
And so Lisa will tell you,
and she told mewhen we were talking about,
when she first started in thisrole and started thinking about BC Builds,
she tapped into some of those networksthat she had built in her role as Mayor
and like, talk to anybody who mightpotentially be involved in the program.
And so I remember there were conversationswith First Nations groups
or conversations with Mayorsand universities and health authorities
(14:32):
and really anyone else who mightpotentially be involved in the program.
And she went and really listened to them
and asked them and said,what do you need from a program like this?
And I feel that that's very usefuland impactful because
instead of just making a program,
writing up a program, and assuming thatwhat you have in mind is going to work,
you're actuallygoing out into community and asking,
(14:53):
what do you need from usto make this program useful for you?
And, I feel thatlike if you're in the long term,
if you're evaluating
the impact of a program, the outcomeswill probably be stronger.
If you have that strong engagementprocess.
That went into the program's design.
And Lisa was also talking about how it really clarified for the team,
(15:15):
too, about what's important to advocatefor, to include in the program,
and what to sort of like park for later
and come back to becauseit's not as important to the community.
Deep listening and community
engagement are something that I'mvery passionate about too.
And as I kind of touched on the project
in the very early stages,that's something I loved about it
(15:37):
also was the deep listeningand Lisa does do deep listening, for sure.
That's something I know about her as well.
I'm going to just kind of
veer into that area of communityand community engagement.
Housing development often meetsresistance in community.
We know this. So what were some of
the particular waysthe BC Builds engaged with communities
(15:59):
to ensure projects are alignedwith those local needs?
Either to you or to Lisa?
Sure. I'll jump in.
One of the waysthat we can accelerate
is that we rely on our partnersto get the zoning in place
almost always before we get engaged,sometimes not.
(16:19):
And so most of our partnersthat have come through our housing
development opportunities platform,which if people want to Google,
they should. There's somereally interesting work happening there.
But the municipalities do the work ofworking with their communities.
They know their communities best.
They get the land zoned,and then bring it to us.
And so that kind of tablehas been set.
(16:40):
In other cases,we are working on a few large,
complex projectswhere zoning is not yet in place.
And, it is really important to,particularly
when it comes to zoningor an official community plan
amendment, to make sure the communityfeels engaged and informed.
And also and again, I can say this
because I sat at a municipal counciltable for 11 years, eight years as Mayor.
(17:04):
It's also importantwhen the decision comes to council
for them to make that they have... whichevercouncil it might be across the province,
the courage to look 50 yearsdown the road and say,
yes, there are ten or 20 or 50 people
who are here tonight who are unhappywith this housing being built,
but the 300 peoplewho are going to benefit
(17:25):
from it, that are going to move inwhen this building opens
and then multiply that out50 or 60 or 70 years.
It does take political courage to makethose decisions when the time comes.
But we try with our partnersto do a really good job of informing
neighbours, holding info sessions,sending mailers out,
all of those things to make sure that... we're
(17:46):
never going to get everyone to agree,but at least that people feel informed
and that they've had an opportunityto give their input.
And most
of our work isn't that. Most of our workis working with pre zoned land
where the municipalities,
our partners have done the hard workin the first place, which
I think it would be greatto talk a little bit about our partners
and partnerships, because that's reallythe secret sauce of the program.
(18:10):
For sure.
And I definitely want to get into that.
And this kind of segues into that.
But what role do municipalities and FirstNations play in shaping these projects?
Well, they are their projects,and that's where, to Amal’s point
when we went out across the provinceand asked everyone who we thought
might be interested,what do you need this program to do?
(18:31):
One of the key thingswe heard from First Nations,
from municipalities, from healthauthorities, from boards of education,
is we have land, we have a housing need.
We know our community needs housing,but we are not housing developers.
We don't have the capacity to develophousing because we're doing XYZ.
That other thing for our nationor our community or our school district.
And so what we need is a programthat will give us the capacity
(18:55):
or provide the capacityto us to actually turn
our vacant landinto new housing for our community.
We heard loud and clearthat that is what was needed.
And so we really built the programaround those needs.
And so First Nations, municipalities,churches, those are our three
main partners right now.
(19:16):
We were doing some preliminary workwith health authorities
and some exploratory conversationswith school districts.
Their role is providing the land.
And then reallythey're the muscle in some ways
behind this project acceleration workand the project acceleration committees,
they need to commit,they need to show up and they need to
workto remove every obstacle that comes up.
(19:37):
And they're doing it, like it's amazing.
We've been working with smallIndigenous communities
in the north, large citiesin Metro Vancouver and everybody
in between, and all of the landownersshow up with that same can-do approach
that they've put their land in, and nowthey want to get housing built quickly.
And we, the BC Builds team, kind of putsome of that capacity around their desire.
(19:58):
Right.
That's amazing.
It's very participatory.
It's very proactive in that. Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah.
So we're talking about municipalities,
landowners, nonprofits, faith groups,First Nations.
Amal, maybe you could talk abouthow this everyone
at the table modelcontributes to better projects.
(20:21):
So I sat in on some of these projectacceleration meetings
where everyone was at the tableand this was a little bit earlier
when BC Builds was new
and none of the projects had yetcome to the construction phase.
And I remember Lisa telling me, well,if you want to understand
BC Builds, you have to see it in action.
You can't just hear me talk about it or
(20:42):
readthe website that we have.
You need to really seewhat groups are experiencing
when they go through the program.
And so I sat in on these meetingssort of like as a fly on the wall,
and I was just observingand taking notes on what was happening.
And in that process,I was really able to see how, like,
in real time,these groups were able to come together.
All the different partners
(21:03):
in a development projectwere able to come together and problem
solve on issuesin real time that came up in the project.
And we list some of the examples of whatthat looked like in the case study,
but as an example...
So, one project that I was sitting inon was a meeting where the architect
was presenting two different designsof a building, and all
the different partners in the projectwere at that meeting together.
(21:27):
And there was a landowner,there was the city planner,
Lisa and her team were there.
And so everyone was just sort of liketalking through
the design and sayingfor example, the landowner was like,
okay, well, what if we moved the communitykitchen to like a more central space?
So other users in the building can use it?
And the city planner was like,okay, well, what if we
like add a few parking spots hereor remove them from here?
(21:50):
What if we play around with thata little bit?
And everyone was bringing the piecesthat they needed from the project
at the same time, at this meeting together,
and just sort of like talking through it.
And of course, like anyone who's familiarwith the development process knows that
not having thatspace is one of the things
that can really make a project timelineso much longer.
And like everyone was justbringing in the pieces that they needed
(22:13):
and problem solving together.
There's a section in the case
study, in fact, whereI asked all the groups that I sat in
on, I asked them, what are you findinguseful about the space?
And people talkedabout all the ways that it made
their jobso much easier.
Just like quick check insconsistently
over like over the period of timelinejust made their job
(22:35):
so much easier.
And also it like helped buildtrust between the different groups, right?
Because even if groups weren'table to necessarily find the solution
that they were looking for in thein the project, just having that space
to problem solve was able to helpbuild them trust with one another.
Another amazing word that's popped up inthis conversation is trust, right?
(22:58):
So I love that also.
Lisa, Amal’s been talking about
the benefits of the pieces of the process
to partners, can you walk us through
an actual real worldexample of a BC Builds project?
Kind of from land identificationto groundbreaking for someone
that's unfamiliar,
but would want to bring forward a project.
(23:19):
There are two separate ways.
So maybe I'll talk about...
why don't I just lay out the two pathwaysin for public stream projects.
And then I'm going to give an example
of one of our projects,kind of from start to groundbreaking.
So the two waysthat projects can come in
is just simply approach BC Builds and say, hey, we've got land or
we'd like to build housingfor middle income households and families.
(23:42):
And in some cases, the landownerwill already have a development partner,
and in some casesand so that's pathway one.
You've got land,you've got a development partner.
And then we start to work through your project proforma.
How does this work?
What rents will you need to charge?
How are you going to cover the mortgageetc., etc..
What are your construction costs?
So that’s pathway one.
(24:03):
Partner comes with a developmentpartner and they're ready to go.
Pathway two is you've got landand it's zoned and you'd like to hand it
over to BC Buildsto find you a development partner.
Or in some casesyou've got land and it's zoned
and you may have a nonprofitthat you have in mind to own
and operate that housing,but you don't have anyone to build it.
(24:23):
So those are the two pathways.
One is the direct intake
and the other is through our housingdevelopment opportunities platform.
And again, for peoplewho are interested in that, Google it.
It's quite innovativein that we kind of act
as a bit of a broker. For peoplewho are interested in that pathway,
I'd encourage them to go
look at the site, look at the propertyopportunity notices that are posted.
(24:45):
You can see how it works, what municipalities or landowners
need to tell us, what kinds of questionsthe development community is asking
so that is one pathway.
And I would say probably about halfour projects have come in that way.
The project that I'm going to focuson to walk through is it
came in through the first pathway.
So the city of North Vancouver
(25:05):
came to us early on,even before I was working at BC Builds...
And I guess just for transparency,I was the Mayor of Victoria.
And then for a year,I was the Housing Solutions Advisor
to Premier Eby with the task ofsetting up BC Builds.
So before I got to BC Builds,I was in the Premier's office
and that's where all this engagement
and everything elsethat I'm always talking about happened.
(25:26):
And so through that engagement processout in the community across the province,
asking generally,what do you need the program to do?
And then people started saying,well, when's it starting? I've got land.
And so City of North Vancouver was oneof the first ones through the door.
They have an old one storyneighbourhood house
that delivers amazingprograms to their community.
The building was built,I think, in the 60s at end of life.
(25:48):
And they weren't planning in their citycapital plan
to build a new neighbourhoodhouse until 2028.
But they did have some land.
And so they said, well, wait a minute, can
we put a new neighbourhood house underneathand can we put housing on top?
And so we started havingthose conversations probably, I think like
very early kind of summer of 2023,just like at the idea stage.
(26:13):
And then by December of 2023,the city council had engaged Catalyst
as their development partner, whothey were working on another project with.
So they had that relationship.
And then we got involved,I think the project acceleration
committee meetingsbegan in January of 2024.
(26:33):
And then we just we walked through...the land was zoned already,
but it's a mass timber building,so it's very complex, 18 storeys
with three storeys of community space
on the first three floors and 15 stories of housing on top.
So the design process happened.
The project was led by the city'sdeputy city manager,
(26:54):
and the head finance guy,
and some folksfrom in the planning department.
And that project worked like all of the kudos for that project
go to the staff at the City
of North Vancouverand the folks at Catalyst Development.
And this one was a bi-weekly projectacceleration committee meeting.
Because it was such a complex project,so many players,
(27:15):
the cityhad to go in the middle of the process
and go to the public and ask to borrow$50 million, for their portion.
And the public thankfully said yes.
And now it's February of 2025.
We started in January 2024and they are under construction
like that project started constructiona couple of weeks ago.
And it's just that kind of a walkthrough, every two weeks for a whole year.
(27:40):
It seems like so much time.
But it actually,...that project
would usually take 3 to 5 yearsjust to get to construction.
Wow. That's amazing.
That's truly amazing. Yeah.
Even the public consultation process,this was still within a year.
Well, the land was already zoned.
So that's key likethat is really key.
(28:01):
So the public consultation processhad happened some time ago
whenever the city tookthe proactive step to zone the land.
But the public,there was definitely that added step
of convincing the publicthat $50 million was a good idea to spend.
So yeah, that's true.
There was that public consultationon the money side for the city.
Amazing, amazing.
(28:21):
So collaboration, courage, joy.
Speed. And trust.
And trust. Right.
Like amazing componentsto an exceptionally unique program.
How do you see this kind of programinfluencing the future
of housing development, Lisa, in Canada?
I never want to be toorah rah rah BC Builds.
And so, Barb,from the City of North Vancouver,
(28:44):
we actually held a session at,I believe it was the Housing
Central Conference where we invitedone of our private partners,
one of our public partners,and one of our nonprofit partners
so three different groups,and asked them to talk about
all the thingsthat we're talking about here,
but also what are some of the challenges,because it can't all be as good
(29:05):
as we're talking about.
So I will answer your question,but some of the challenges are
that it really does require staff,
at the municipality or the First Nationto prioritize the project, which means
that they are deprioritizing other thingsso that can be challenging.
It requires peopleto stretch out of their comfort zones,
(29:26):
and out of their regular line of worksometimes.
So that can also be a challenge.
And then just the pace,
like going at that pace.
We've really tried hardnot to miss things,
but sometimes,we're moving so quickly.
And this is why the case study that Amaldid was so useful.
We're moving so quickly.
What are the things that we would havedone differently had we taken more time?
(29:47):
And then a learning on that projectcan go to the next project and say,
okay, wait, even though we're movingquickly, we need to do this thing.
So there's some learnings that can come.
But I think those aresome of the challenges. In terms of how
this has the potential to impactthe way that housing is built.
We did a survey of our partners,and actually, I don't even think
(30:09):
I've shared this with Amal.
We did a surveyof all of our public stream partners,
at the end of year one and asked themwhat worked,
what didn't work,what can we do better, what's useful?
And, what will you take from BC Builds
to inform other parts of your workor other parts of housing development?
And so I think part of what BC Buildscan offer and I'm again,
(30:30):
Amal’s work is so important for the scalingup in the transformational piece
is that it is actually possibleto compress that predevelopment timeline.
It is actually possibleto get housing built faster.
It is.
And so one of the key thingsthat people said
they would take from their workwith BC Builds to other projects
in their municipalitiesor First Nations or in the private sector
(30:52):
are these project accelerationcommittee meetings like that is a key tool
that has a potentialto be transformational.
So I do think it's possible for BC Buildsto have an influence
just beyond our programby A, everyone reading Amal’s case study
and seeing how the work happens,
but B, using some of the toolsthat we've created for our purpose
and translating them to other purposesfor both housing projects
(31:14):
and other kinds of community projects,or development projects as well.
These intersections are critical.
That's I think
the proof is here that these intersectionsand collaborations are critical.
What advice, Lisa,
would you give other provinces or citiestrying to replicate this?
Amal and the SFU folks,their case study is really good.
(31:35):
Like, they did a really good job.
I think they asked us the right questions.
They asked the provincethe right questions.
They pointed out some of the challenges.
They pointed out some of the thingsthat we did well before we started
and the things that probablywe could have done better.
So, yeah,I guess the advice that I would give is,
it is possible, we are living proof.
And that no crisis
(31:58):
is going to be resolved withouta different way of working together.
We're in a housing crisisbecause we've been building
housing the same wayfor the last hundred years.
Both on the pre-development side, and the construction side.
So if we keep doing the same things,we're not going to fast track, and then,
yeah, just the collaboration and the trustand the joy are just really
(32:19):
it's a new way of working togetherthat actually feels good.
And work is hardand building things is hard.
It's really, really hard.
And so creating these committees,these project acceleration committees,
where people have a shared purpose,
they have a shared goal,they have a shared timeline.
It is very motivating.
(32:40):
So there's no...this is actually kind of interesting.
There's no shortcutsto a project acceleration committee.
Like, you have to show up.You have to collaborate.
You have to be willingto change your position
if somebody in
the group has a better idea,you have to be willing to problem solve.
That's some of the advicethat I would give.
It's hard work. Like it is not easy.
(33:00):
Right.
I mean, it sounds extremely complicatedbut extremely rewarding.
Yeah. And that's the gift.
Before we wrap up, Amal,you've talked about the work
around BC Builds,but what are some of the other projects
that Renewable Citiesis working on around housing?
Yeah, thanks for asking.
So the goal of our work at RenewableCities isn't just to build more housing
(33:23):
for its own sake, but to really createexcellent housing that serves
people's needs to be connectedto their communities
and also live within the planet's limits.
And so the BC Builds case
study is one way that we're thinkingabout excellent housing.
And we're
also thinking about social connectednessand climate resilience in housing design.
So another initiativethat we're working on in collaboration
(33:43):
with Hey Neighbour Collective and HappyCities is called Housing That Connects Us.
And I'll give you an exampleof what we're doing there.
But the critical questionthat we're asking about in that initiative
is, how do we transform our existinghousing spaces
to better servethe needs of the residents who live there?
So if you take the exampleof a three storey walk up apartment
building, for example,they're often older,
(34:05):
but they have more affordablerental stock.
And they often also have like a very largeset back or a lawn
that surrounds them that has grass.
But it's not very engagingor used very often by the residents.
And in cases like those,we're asking questions like,
well, what could happenif we created a garden space
that offers a chance for residentsto meet each other there?
(34:25):
And what if there's
also a rain garden in therefor managing stormwater on the property?
Can we do something like
creatinga little seating nook in a corridor
so that residents have,like, a little space
to gather and have conversationsand get to know each other better?
And how does that help themget to know their neighbours?
And check in the next time an extreme heat event rolls around, for example.
(34:47):
So what we're really asking is,what are all the different ways
that we can make our housing designmore socially connected
and climate resilienceto create those connections,
and make housingreally excellent for everyone?
And that's something we'll be exploringover the next few months
in that initiative.
Amazing.
This is a beautiful connection point,
(35:07):
between BC Builds and SFU,but also between Lisa
and you, Amal. I think this is a really coolrelationship.
Thank you both forthis really insightful conversation.
And listeners, if you want to learn more,check out BC Builds
website and Amal’s case study on the website.
Is it on the website right now?
(35:28):
Amal?
It's on the SFU Renewable Cities website.
Well, but we should put it on our website.
What is wrong with us?
That’s what came to mind right now for me too.
We've got to go on our website andactually we can help with that.
Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
Action item.
I’ll write to Allie right away and get it up there.
Yeah. Exactly.
And as always stay curiousand stay engaged and see you next time.
(35:54):
To learn more about BC Housing,
including how to apply for subsidizedhousing in British Columbia.
Visit www.BChousing.org.
You can also find uson Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and X.
If you enjoyed this episode,give us a rating.
This will help others find
Let's TalkHousing and join the conversation.
(36:17):
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or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
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