July 8, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, we explore how organizations are redefining their approach to accessibility, broadening their lens and criteria to meet evolving needs. We’ll examine how accessibility has expanded to include not just physical aspects but also support for intellectual and cognitive needs, reflecting a more inclusive approach.
Guests:
Brad McCannell, VP of Access and Inclusion, Rick Hansen Foundation
Doug Tennant, CEO, UNITI
Julianne (Jewels) Cressman, Community Advocate
About the Rick Hansen Foundation:
In 1985, Rick Hansen set out on the Man In Motion World Tour; a 26-month, 34 country, 40,000 km wheelchair marathon. The Tour raised $26 million and changed the way people with disabilities were perceived. The Rick Hansen Foundation (RHF), established in 1988, is part of its legacy. For over three decades, RHF has removed barriers, changed attitudes and funded spinal cord injury research and care.
Today, roughly one in four Canadians identify as having a disability, and that number is growing as our population ages. Globally, over 1.3 billion adults identify as having a disability. We’re working on breaking down one of the most fundamental barriers that people with disabilities still face: physical barriers in the places where we live, work, learn and play.
Learn more: https://www.rickhansen.com/
About UNITI:
UNITI offers quality services to people with developmental disabilities and their support networks. We also provide affordable and inclusive rental housing in Surrey. Through community engagement, we increase awareness about inclusion, advocacy and disability rights. We firmly believe that together we’re stronger.
Learn more: https://uniti4all.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
A home. It's something we all need.
But for too many, having a safe placeto make a home is out of reach.
The challenges can seem insurmountable.
And yet, each and every day,people are coming together
to provide safe, quality and affordablehousing for those in need.
Welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
I'm your host, Mita Naidu.
(00:23):
Join us as we listen toand learn from people in British
Columbia who are creating strong,inclusive communities where everyone can thrive.
Hello and welcome to seasonfive of Let's Talk Housing.
(00:46):
I'm your host, Mita Naidu.
As we begin today's podcast episode,
I'd like to acknowledge that I'm recordingfrom the unceded and unsurrended
land of the Halkomelem
speaking peoples.
Also for transparency,
this episode is being recordedin January of 2025
and reflects the issuesand priorities of that time.
(01:08):
Today, on Let's Talk
Housing, we are joined by Brad McCannell,
VP of Access and Inclusionat the Rick Hansen Foundation.
Doug Tennant, CEO of UNITI,
and Jewels Cressman, Community Advocate.
We'll be talking about accessible housing
and its importanceand impact in community.
(01:29):
This is Let's Talk Housing.
I'd like to open the conversationby hearing a bit about what
inspired each of youto focus on accessible housing.
What brought you to this place?
Doug, what drew you to this field?
Yeah. Thanks, Mita.
I got involved with this 34 years ago
when I met my stepdaughter, Krista,who has down syndrome.
(01:51):
She was three at the time.
I was aware that there was discrimination
but I wasn't aware at how pervasiveit was.
Things such as, peopleprotesting her going into her school
as the first person with a developmentaldisability in the school.
And so that sort of shifted my paradigm on life and gave me a focus.
And over thepast 34 years, I've worked as a volunteer,
(02:15):
as a frontline worker,and now a board member.
And now in my current positionfor the last 13 years is the CEO of UNITI,
and UNITI is the partnership of threenot for profit organizations,
one of which,
supports people with developmentaldisabilities and acquired brain injuries.
And we found about 20 years ago,that there just wasn't
(02:37):
the same housing options for peoplewith developmental disabilities.
And so that became part of our missionwas to create, and, maintain
and run housing that would be inclusiveto the entire community.
That's the short version.
Right. Right.
And I know it'smore complicated than that, but it's
beautiful to hear that your passionwas ignited by family for this work.
(03:01):
Thank you for sharing that story.
Jewels, what about you?I'd love to hear your story.
Why is accessiblehousing such a meaningful cause for you?
When I joined a housing co-op
in Coquitlam, I have served on the board three different times.
I'm currentlythe outgoing President.
As we dissolve and go into a new co-opunder the name Packard Housing Co-op.
(03:24):
When I came in here, I was using a scooterbecause I had a disability
at the time.
They weren't really surewhat was going on,
but I needed a scooterand then a wheelchair.
And for a long period of time,I was unable to do
outside activitieswithout the assistance of a wheelchair.
Then my health improved somewhat.
(03:44):
But it was important for meto have an accessible unit.
So I was switch from what was a regularunit to an accessible unit.
And you were talking abouthow is that impacted my life?
And I have to say, one of the thingsthat is funny is people assume
that because I'm in an accessible unit,I must use a wheelchair.
(04:08):
So I get some kind of nasty comments
occasionally, like,why do you have an accessible unit?
You look fine.There's nothing wrong with you.
And they're not nice about it.
I'm not talking about peoplethat are polite and are interested.
I'm talking about people
who think that they knowwhat they're talking about and they don't.
And so they can be quite rude
and a little bit uppity,and then you just have to use it
(04:31):
as a teachable moment and go, oh,wait a second.
Not all abilities are different
abilities, as I call them, are visibleand so just because they look fine to
you doesn't meanI don't benefit from having,
a bathtubthat's got accessible bars all around it.
I have a wider space to be able to changeand do things.
(04:51):
If I ever need to go back intomy wheelchair, I have that access, etc.
And so it's been a positive opportunityfor me personally
to learn about the challengesthat come both in and out of
using some sort of mobility aidand also just personally
navigating the worldwith different abilities.
(05:12):
So that's kind of my story.
Well,first, I'm glad you've got that unit.
Thank you.
And it's very interestingwhen we think about
invisibilityand who gets erased as a result.
Right.
We'll dive into that more.
Brad, tell us a story.
Tell us your story.
Oh, gosh. My story.
(05:33):
I've been quadriplegic for 44 years now.
And this whole accessibility thingis a second career for me.
I spent 25 years in the televisionbusiness,
and in 1990,
I owned and operated the second largestproduction company west of Toronto.
So we were a very busy group.
(05:55):
And I got a call from my old friendRick Hansen,
and he asked me if I'd be interestedin being the Project Manager
for the largest congressand exposition on disability ever held,
at least to that point.It was called independence 92.
And as a producer, I thought,this is great, I'll go do this.
And I went there and I was,
(06:17):
up till then, I
wasn't part of the community of peoplewith disabilities, I was injured,
I got rehab,I went back to work...
I was a busy guy and life was good,but I had no exposure to people
with disabilities whatsoeveruntil this conference.
And this conference was 2700
delegates from 93 countriesaround the world
(06:38):
with every conceivable disabilityyou can think of.
And in that conference, I met Justin Dart,who was one of the founders of the ADA.
I met Henry Enns from Disabled Peoples’International.
I met Laurie Beachell,part of the independence movement,
and I was blown away by the fact
that there was so much to be doneand so few people doing it.
(07:01):
And actually Henry and
Laurie Beachell looked at me and said,you should be here.
We need peoplewho know how to communicate.
And so at the end of that conference,I wrapped up my television
production company and sold itto the highest bidder and then opened up
Canadian Barrier Free
Design, the first professional accessconsulting firm on the West Coast.
(07:24):
And from there I went on to...
I specialize in large public eventslike the Olympics and the Paralympic Games
and those kinds of things and airportsand stuff like that.
But my whole exposure to that community,
suddenly I
just recognizedhow we were being held back
and we were being held backmostly by the built environment.
(07:46):
And that had to change.
So I was the guy to do it.
So just airports and just the Olympics.
Oh gosh. No.
Those arenot small things, Brad.
Well,I had the great pleasure of being on the
International Paralympic Committee accessworking group.
So that was determining the accessto be provided at all
(08:06):
venues and all events for the Paralympicand Olympic Games.
So that led me into everythingfrom corner stores to bakeries to...
The interesting thing I found iswhen it was the 2008 Games in Beijing,
and then the 2010 games here in Vancouver,we were able to put 200 people, using
wheelchairs on the side of a mountainto watch a downhill ski race.
(08:29):
Nobody had ever done that before.
But whether it was the big, big projectsor the little corner bakery,
the one thing they all had in commonis they knew what accessibility
meant to them, to their organization.
And that's one of the thingsthat's really important.
Access is not black and white.
It's gray.
And how it affects your organizationis critically important.
And it's the same in housing.
(08:50):
That's the same in commercial retail space.
Knowing how it affects your operation
is the only way you're going to knowwhat the return on investment is,
whether that's cash profitor employee benefits or whatever it is,
the onlyway to take that is to take it personally.
And that's what I've been tryingto get people to do now for
(09:12):
almost 30 years in the access business.
So, Brad, I think that's the perfect segueto talk about the impact
of the Rick Hansen Foundation.
Tell me about whatthe organization has done so far
to meet evolving,accessible needs over the years.
How do you ensure your programsremain relevant and impactful?
(09:33):
Well, the foundation has been aroundfor 35 years.
Maybe more than that now.
So we've taken a nationaland international approach.
We're a unique positionto bring organizations open
for people with disabilitiesto go to the corporate world.
And that's
something that Rick Hansen can do thatperhaps nobody else can do as well.
(09:54):
And so that's been a real keyto what we've been moving forward
to try to bring that knowledge forwardand to integrate
the needs of people with disabilitiesinto the every day
thinking of of bureaucrats, of government,of corporate people.
But what we realized,
I was brought into the foundationten years ago
(10:16):
to develop the Rick Hansen FoundationAccessibility Certification Program,
and what we recognized wasthe built environment was the key
to the successof all the other pillars of accessibility,
whether it's employment, transportation,
communications, web access,they all rely on the built environment.
Even if you're working from home,you're in a built environment.
(10:39):
So, the bottom line was,without accessible
destination, accessibletransportation was not as important.
And even the best HR program in the worldwouldn't work
if I couldn't get in the building.
So the built environment became our focus.
Along with the school program.
Our school programis really important to us, but the Built
Environment program,what we had to really do is
(11:03):
get industryto recognize the return on investment.
It's just laying there and they'rejust ignoring, and help them understand
this isn't about more regulationis not about more red tape.
It's about you. It’s about your family.
It's about your mom.
So the the built environmentbecame a focus.
We recognize that the industryhas evolving needs as well.
(11:25):
The demographics are changing.
The industry needs are changing.
All this stuff has to come together.
And it's all about the practicalapplication of universal design
and delivering that is in our DNA.
Can I ask you to define universal design?
Universal design is not a thing.
It's not a prescription.
It doesn't tell youhow wide a door should be.
(11:46):
It doesn't tell you anythingabout what you should do for acoustics.
There are a set of principlesdeveloped by Dr Greg Rice
back in the early 1980s.
And the idea is quite simple.
If you've made an environment workand functional and safe for young people,
and work for older adultsand seniors, everything else in the
(12:07):
middle would work itself out.
So these are principles.
Universal design is an approach.
It's a wayof looking at a built environment.
And once you start seeing barriers topeople with disabilities, you can't stop.
And that's our great advantage. Yeah.
When people go through our course,
you can just see the lights go on.
(12:28):
Now, when an architect discoversthat a handrail
is not just for support,but it's actually navigation,
it tells people with vision losswhere the landings are.
Tell themwhere the path of travel
is. By wrapping that handrail around, itsays, come with me.
I'm going to keep you safeand that's why it's so important
that they meet that codeand that they follow that.
(12:49):
But when they take the course,they see the penny drop.
It's not like, okay, I checked a box.
I did numberone of the seven principles I've got.
It's a way of looking at things,
it's a way of shifting the cultureto see what we really need
in the built environmentis just a broader user base.
(13:10):
Right now, everything'sdesigned for 18 to 55 year old males.
How did that happen?
Not the majority of the population.
So universal design is an approach.
It's a set of principles.
But by itselfit's not going to change the world.
Educationand culture shift is going to take that.
That lens is critical in how we think about housing
(13:34):
and how we think about buildingsand how we think of development.
Doug, what's the perspective of UNITIwhen it comes to addressing
uniquehousing needs, developmental disabilities?
You know,what have been the pressing needs?
Yeah.
And I just wanted to sayto start that
our main building in South Surrey,Administration and Services building,
(13:55):
worked for and received the gold standardfrom the Rick Hansen Foundation.
And it was a really useful thing to gogo through in terms of learning
sort of that universal design.
And as an organization that supportspeople with developmental disabilities
and acquired brain injuries, many of whomalso have physical disabilities...
(14:15):
It was a really usefulprocess for us to go to.
I’d sort of add, from our perspective,
what we have foundis that there's a paradigm of disability,
particularly around peoplewith developmental disabilities, where
there's a rolethat they exist to receive help.
(14:36):
And it's a very charitable model.
And as Brad said, we find
when we talk with peopleand listen to people, that in fact,
they want to have everythingthat everybody else has.
And so we look at our roleas supporting people with
developmental disabilitiesto have the same access to housing,
(14:57):
to have the same variety of housing aseverybody else in the community has.
One way to sort ofmake this clear is that when
people in the general communitythink about people with developmental
disabilities in housing, quite oftenit is about
people with developmental disabilitiesstill living in institutions.
(15:20):
It's about the idea that, oh, well,
you have a developmental disability,then automatically you want a roommate.
The idea thata person with a developmental disability,
the first home that they move into aftertheir family home is their forever home.
And that's not the experienceof most people.
Most people go through a varietyof different housing as they progress.
And so we look at it,UNITI is listening to people.
(15:43):
What is it you want for housing?
And that's why we actually starteddeveloping housing.
We're not developers.
We became a developer because there wasn'tthe type of housing that was needed.
And ironically enough, thattype of housing was just like housing.
That was welcoming to peoplewith developmental disabilities.
So we sometimestry to make things strange and weird,
(16:04):
but in fact, at the end of the day,
our job is to support people withdevelopmental disabilities
to have the same opportunitiesfor housing as everybody else.
Right.
You'refilling a gap. You're filling a need
that people just didn't takeinto consideration because they weren't
listening.
Jewels, you're someone that alsodirectly engages with the community.
(16:25):
What are you hearing fromindividuals and families?
I just think about our place here.
We were built in 1981.
We have 170 units, but there's only four
accessible units,what they term accessible units.
My corridor from the front doorto go around the corner
into where the bedroom dooris, is such a sharp corner
(16:49):
that you can't helpbut take off the drywall on the corners,
because there's no bumpers on the corners.It wasn't built with the proper
concept of what a person with differentabilities needs in order to live
and enjoy their home the same wayanybody else does in the other units.
But also the communityis looking at things like,
since we've got the BC Accessibility Actthat's come in, we have changes.
(17:13):
And I had a member come to me recentlywith something.
I was so grateful she mentioned it to me.
She is visually challenged.
And so at night when she wants to comein our back entrance
through the loading zone area,when she gets dropped off for a ride,
she can't use it because even thoughthere's lighting, it's not adequate
for her to be able to safely navigatethe sidewalk to get into the back door.
(17:35):
So she goes to the side entranceand comes in that one instead.
And that doesn't have an automatic door.
It's further away from where she is,
and I don't think it feels quiteas secure for her either.
But it is.
There is a security camera, so I think
although there have been shiftsand I'm very grateful for the work
(17:56):
that's being done, the AccessibilityAct coming into play and all these things.
I still think there's a great dealmore work that needs to be done for sure.
Yeah, it definitely sounds like that.
And we're talking about individualsat this point, but people in families,
people with extended families.
Right. There's different needsthere as well.
Building on that, how do we ensure that
(18:18):
housing design addresses both physicaland developmental disabilities?
Doug, we know this past summer,construction began on Harmony Apartments,
which is a development designedto offer affordable
and inclusivehousing for a diverse group of residents.
Can you share what designconsiderations went in mind?
I can compare the two.
(18:39):
So we built Chorus in 2016.The first
purpose built rental building in Surreyin about three decades.
And at that time we were like, okay, howmany adoptable units do we have to build?
And it was four.
So we said, well, we'll do double, we'll build eight because
that's what we believe in.
And it was a very sad experiencewith Chorus
(19:01):
because of the 71 homes,
20 were for peoplewith developmental disabilities.
And it turned out that none of them reallyhad any serious physical disabilities.
And so, they didn't need the adaptableunits, which was great.
So we were like, okay,well, we've got eight adaptable units.
That's awesome.
We can now have peoplewith physical disabilities move in.
(19:23):
But when we looked out there and we tried,the problem was
there was a disconnectbetween the adaptable unit
and the rent that we neededto get for those units.
And because we were usingour funding,
that was a building built largely
with our funding, to support the tenantswith developmental disabilities,
(19:43):
we couldn't address that gap and rentfor people with physical disabilities.
And it was very unfortunate.
In fact, at the end of the day,it was just one gentleman
who actually came from Kelownawho needed the adaptable unit and used it.
And the other seven, we had to justrent out to the general population.
So that saddened me at that time.
What I like about theHarmony Project is it's
(20:04):
part of the CommunityHousing Fund with BC
Housing and was supported by BC Housing,and that comes with requirements
to have six adaptable units,but even better, six accessible units.
So we're going to have 12 in totaland six of them accessible.
I love that. We are still going to havethe same percentage of homes for people
(20:24):
with developmental disabilities, butbecause also the way the rents are set up,
where 20% are going to be at shelter rate,so those are likely to be people
with developmental disabilities,
but then 50% of the rents are at rentgeared to income.
And that means that we will be ableto use the adaptable
and accessible unitsfor people who actually need that.
(20:46):
And I'm very happy for that.
So it's a better setup.
That’s a very novel concept actually.
To be able to move
around where youneed to be with those subsidies in place, yeah.
Yeah.
And it makes us accountableas a landlord as well
that people aren't choosing usjust because we have a subsidy,
(21:09):
but they're choosing usbecause we're good landlords, which we are.
Right, right. Exactly.
Brad and Jewels, like what other factors?
We're talking about income.
What other factors do you thinkare important to creating housing
that fosters independence and belongingand a sense of community.
Having access to resourcesand having someone
(21:29):
within the community that you'repart of or that you're representing
that has the knowledge base of knowingwhere to go and who to connect with.
And for me personally, being involvedin the community and different committees
and stuff that I'm involvedin, it's been really beneficial
because it's helped me to connectwith a lot of different types of people
that are doing community work
(21:50):
in the Tri-Cities area,and so I've been able to, for my members
and for people in the community,be able to say, hey, I've met this person.
They're able to help you with this.
Right now, we have an individualwho needed assistance with income
in order to continue to live in the co-opbecause he was disabled,
but he had been supported by his familyand they both passed away.
(22:11):
And now he's all of a suddenliving on his own.
He's run out of his trust money and boom,how am I supposed to survive?
And he did not have the skillset to be independent
without assistance.
So fortunately, through SHARE, we wereable to give him assistance with getting
PWD started,
gettinghis income support there for himself,
(22:33):
start to work on
other things that he needs to doand get him downsizing to a smaller unit,
which will be more manageableand more in line with his income.
So having the ability to knowwho to connect with is really important.
So I think one areathat we need to grow in is...
You wouldn't want to do... It’s not a fair type thing,
(22:55):
but somethingwhere there is the ability to
bring togetherlike minded people that genuinely care
about freedom of access
and quality of life for all membersof the community that you're part of,
and just bringing people togetherand brainstorming and also just learning
to connect with one anotherso you know who to reach out to.
(23:17):
Like I have people
that have reached out to mebecause they knew that I was at a co-op
and might be able to assistsomeone that needed housing desperately,
or I learned about through Community
Land Trust that they have a fund for womenfleeing domestic violence
that are looking for assistance,
paying for their shares to get intoa housing co-op or a disabled person.
There are so many resourcesthat of all of us represent
(23:42):
different organizations, that we know aboutbecause of the work that we do,
but I don't think there's a goodcohesive way yet
of connecting those dots to make itmore readily available when needed.
Okay, that's definitely food for thought.
And that plays into the future, right, of...
(24:02):
and shaping the futureof accessible living.
Brad, what are the trends?
What are wegoing to be looking for?
Well, just on that topic,let's remember there's two issues here.
One is economicand the other is the built environment.
They are not the same.Not interchangeable.
The accessible dwelling project
(24:22):
that's been booted down the road to 2027.
But if we can start, if every home isbuilt to anticipate the needs of the user.
In other words, be adaptable.
It's not just little portionsof a development, not 5%, not 10%.
All of a sudden Jewels and Doug,
they've got much more choice.
(24:43):
They can work...
So the economic issues can beput into almost any development then,
because almost any development would workif they follow the rules.
So that's what's really importantis to separate those two issues.
Too often I see like a development designfor seniors,
but the only design that went intoit is the economic model.
They didn't talk about hallwayswith 90 degree corners.
(25:05):
You know, one of the things we recommendis just take the corners off.
It's those oblique things, right.
We took the corners offto make it easier for people using
mobility devicesand not hitting walls and stuff.
It turned out it was a big benefitfor people using sign language
as they're walking along,talking to each other
and the 90 degree corner comes up,
inclusion hazards.
(25:26):
But if when that corner was cut off,they could see an advanced
and in a couple of instances,
we put a convex mirror on the wall soyou can see what's coming down the hall.
So making the built environment workfor everyone...
Now that's the start.
Now the economic model comes into play.
And organizationslike UNITI can take over and start
making creative, real,meaningful access for users.
(25:50):
You can't tell me how to make my homeaccessible because you don't know me.
Yeah, I can't use a grab bar. These...
I'm a quad. These don't grab anything.
So there's no grab bars in my house.
If you look closely, you’ll noticeone of the bookcases beside the toilet
sticks out about three inchesfurther than it should.
And that's because I lean on it.
(26:12):
That's my grab bar.
You can't know that.
So from building homesfor people with disabilities,
the idea that you can create accessiblesuite for me is ludicrous.
You don't know me.
So it's better to create a suite
that anticipates the needs of me,or when I move out the next user
and have the infrastructure ready for
(26:33):
the needs of UNITI,the needs of the co-op users.
I think that's actually a very interestingpoint, Brad, is that once again,
you're pointing out having a space that
is adaptable is key to begin with.
My mother has recently
fallen ill,and I'm navigating that for her.
(26:54):
She lives with me.
So that's anotherconsideration, is families that bring in
or supportindividuals...
Intergenerational living.
You know, we don'ttake advantage.
The other cultures do it all the timeand we just don't.
And it's so vexing to me.
And that combinedwith the concept of
we call able bodied people TABs
(27:17):
because you're only temporarilyable bodied.
It doesn't matter whether you do a face plant
when you're a teenager,you end up in a wheelchair or you're 65.
You need a walker and a hearing aid.
You will be part of our community.
We're the largestminority group in the world,
and the only one that anyone can joinat any moment, whether it's a fall down
the stairs, an illness, car accident,or as they say, if you just get old.
(27:40):
The bottom lineis, it's not about somebody else.
It's about you and your family.
It's about your mom.
Exactly. And
I mean, these conversationsseem very niche to people sometimes,
but they are really just so broadand so impactful in community.
What would you say to people
(28:01):
who would questionthe specificity of this conversation?
What would either of you, anyone,say to them
about how important this isfor a broader, larger community?
I think when you look at statisticsregarding health, mental health
of people that live in communitiesthat have people of different age
groups, you will actually find thatthey are healthier.
(28:24):
Seniors love to have the abilityto see kids around them,
especially those that don't have grandkidsthat are living close by.
My daughter lives in a unit downthe hall from me, my chosen daughter.
She's a wonderful galand she helps me out quite a bit.
So she comes and helps me with some ofthe things that I find difficult to do.
(28:44):
And we actually split groceries.
We split the cost of other thingsbecause the cost of living is so high
and I'm on a pension, she's
working full time,but we share the cost of food and stuff.
There's other ways, and as a co-op,we've had people mention
maybe we could have a Costco cardand go and bulk buy certain things
so that we have the ability to help peoplethat are struggling within
(29:06):
our community. So to me,
the concept of supportive
environment,not just the accessible environment,
but a supportive environment,an environment where you build community.
Whatever development you're part of.
Because truthfully, years agowhen I lived in an apartment building,
I could say hi to my neighboursand I knew who they were.
(29:29):
But truthfully, you said hi.
Have a good day.
That was about it.You didn't really know them.
Whereas I've lived in a housing co-opfor 27.5 years,
and I know nearly everybody here,and not just because of my role
working on the board,but just in general, getting to know them
because it's a more social environment,it's a more welcoming environment usually.
(29:51):
co-op living.
And so there is a proviso that you must bewilling to volunteer in some way.
They want you to participate.
Our mission has to be to keep people
in their communitiesas long as humanly possible,
to stay in their homesas long as humanly possible.
Even when they have to go into longterm care, it should be small facilities
(30:13):
within their communityso they can stay there.
And it takes all advantage of
the whole community piece,the intergenerational living piece.
You know, when
grandma can't go see her grandsonplay hockey at the local arena
because the sidewalks are crackedor the door is too heavy, or
the stairs are too steep, or whateverit might be to keep her away
when she can't go there a little threadbreaks,
(30:36):
right?
It distances her from her family,
it distances her from the community and
the whole system starts to break down.
And we need to respect our eldersmore than we are.
Why can't the bottom two floorsof any new condominium
(30:58):
be set up as Long-Term Care Suites?
You know, one of the suiteswould be dedicated to a resident
in care person.
And the bottom two...
So as you age,you actually move down in your building.
You know, for the building owner,he retains the asset
and undoubtablly some supportfrom the health care system
and return on investment for the owner,its return on investment for the community
(31:21):
is return on investment for the person who'sjust trying to stay part of their family
without feelingthat they're a burden to it.
Yeah, and Jewels and Brad,I think you really nailed it
with your comments about community
and includingmultigenerational community.
And, you know, historically, peoplewith developmental disabilities...
You talked about a thread, Brad.
(31:41):
There was a cord
that was cut because children wereput into institutions and separated.
And now, the joy of a tenantwith developmental disability
being able to go to the store, phone theirmom and say, hey, mom, I'm at the store.
Is there anything I can pick you up?
Such a simple, simple thing, simpleact of kindness that all of us has done,
(32:03):
a person with a developmental disabilitynever having the opportunity to do that.
And now they do. And of course they do.
And that reciprocal relationshipbetween the...
we have no policy in our apartments about
you have to do things together,nothing like that.
But by the very fact that there are peoplewith developmental disabilities
who are part of that housingfirst of all, it kind of sets,
(32:25):
people choose to move into that place,know that.
So it kind of... that's a bitof a vetting right at the very beginning.
But then the people that are livingthere, it's just fantastic. Families,
seniors, people with disabilities.
We've had four babies bornin the last year, and it's just fantastic
to have a community
that cares about each otherand also is completely great
(32:49):
for the business community because peoplewho live in affordable housing, they shop
locally, they don't go to Palm Springsfor half of the year.
And if you're shopping locally,so the dollar store or the Safeway, etc.,
they love the fact that that buildingis being built next to them
because they've got 100 peoplethat are shopping at their store.
(33:10):
So it's great for the community, it’s greatfor the business community.
I would add that we do quality of life
surveys every 3 or 4 years,scientifically verified.
And recently,
they now have an indicatorof like the average British Columbian.
And so people without disabilitiesand the tenants with disabilities
who live in Chorusapartments have a higher quality of life
(33:33):
than the average British Columbian,something that it's very unheard of,
when it comes to peoplewith developmental disabilities.
However, I would also make the argumentthat if we were to survey
the entire building, everyone who lives inthat building has a
higher quality of lifethan the average British Columbian,
because their greatest worry of BritishColumbians has been taken off the table,
which is to have safe, affordable housing.
(33:56):
They don't have to worry about that.
Well, this TAB thanks you.
All three of you.
I'm going to use that now.That's a great term.
You’re such a wise panel of expertswith lived experience, and
I'm just so grateful for this conversationand your perspectives.
We've barely scratched the surface.
And yeah, there's so much to unpack.
(34:19):
But again, thank you so much.
It's been so great listening to youand hearing your different perspectives.
I really appreciate it.
To learn more about BC Housing,
including how to apply for subsidizedhousing in British Columbia, visit
www.bchousing.org
You can also find uson Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and X.
(34:43):
If you enjoyed this episode,give us a rating.
This will help others find
Let's TalkHousing and join the conversation.
You can subscribe to Let's TalkHousing on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
A home. It's something we all need.
But for too many, having a safe placeto make a home is out of reach.
The challenges can seem insurmountable.
And yet, each and every day,people are coming together
to provide safe, quality and affordablehousing for those in need.
Welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
I'm your host, Mita Naidu.
(00:23):
Join us as we listen toand learn from people in British
Columbia who are creating strong,inclusive communities where everyone can thrive.
Hello and welcome to seasonfive of Let's Talk Housing.
(00:46):
I'm your host, Mita Naidu.
As we begin today's podcast episode,
I'd like to acknowledge that I'm recordingfrom the unceded and unsurrended
land of the Halkomelem
speaking peoples.
Also for transparency,
this episode is being recordedin January of 2025
and reflects the issuesand priorities of that time.
(01:08):
Today, on Let's Talk
Housing, we are joined by Brad McCannell,
VP of Access and Inclusionat the Rick Hansen Foundation.
Doug Tennant, CEO of UNITI,
and Jewels Cressman, Community Advocate.
We'll be talking about accessible housing
and its importanceand impact in community.
(01:29):
This is Let's Talk Housing.
I'd like to open the conversationby hearing a bit about what
inspired each of youto focus on accessible housing.
What brought you to this place?
Doug, what drew you to this field?
Yeah. Thanks, Mita.
I got involved with this 34 years ago
when I met my stepdaughter, Krista,who has down syndrome.
(01:51):
She was three at the time.
I was aware that there was discrimination
but I wasn't aware at how pervasiveit was.
Things such as, peopleprotesting her going into her school
as the first person with a developmentaldisability in the school.
And so that sort of shifted my paradigm on life and gave me a focus.
And over thepast 34 years, I've worked as a volunteer,
(02:15):
as a frontline worker,and now a board member.
And now in my current positionfor the last 13 years is the CEO of UNITI,
and UNITI is the partnership of threenot for profit organizations,
one of which,
supports people with developmentaldisabilities and acquired brain injuries.
And we found about 20 years ago,that there just wasn't
(02:37):
the same housing options for peoplewith developmental disabilities.
And so that became part of our missionwas to create, and, maintain
and run housing that would be inclusiveto the entire community.
That's the short version.
Right. Right.
And I know it'smore complicated than that, but it's
beautiful to hear that your passionwas ignited by family for this work.
(03:01):
Thank you for sharing that story.
Jewels, what about you?I'd love to hear your story.
Why is accessiblehousing such a meaningful cause for you?
When I joined a housing co-op
in Coquitlam, I have served on the board three different times.
I'm currentlythe outgoing President.
As we dissolve and go into a new co-opunder the name Packard Housing Co-op.
(03:24):
When I came in here, I was using a scooterbecause I had a disability
at the time.
They weren't really surewhat was going on,
but I needed a scooterand then a wheelchair.
And for a long period of time,I was unable to do
outside activitieswithout the assistance of a wheelchair.
Then my health improved somewhat.
(03:44):
But it was important for meto have an accessible unit.
So I was switch from what was a regularunit to an accessible unit.
And you were talking abouthow is that impacted my life?
And I have to say, one of the thingsthat is funny is people assume
that because I'm in an accessible unit,I must use a wheelchair.
(04:08):
So I get some kind of nasty comments
occasionally, like,why do you have an accessible unit?
You look fine.There's nothing wrong with you.
And they're not nice about it.
I'm not talking about peoplethat are polite and are interested.
I'm talking about people
who think that they knowwhat they're talking about and they don't.
And so they can be quite rude
and a little bit uppity,and then you just have to use it
(04:31):
as a teachable moment and go, oh,wait a second.
Not all abilities are different
abilities, as I call them, are visibleand so just because they look fine to
you doesn't meanI don't benefit from having,
a bathtubthat's got accessible bars all around it.
I have a wider space to be able to changeand do things.
(04:51):
If I ever need to go back intomy wheelchair, I have that access, etc.
And so it's been a positive opportunityfor me personally
to learn about the challengesthat come both in and out of
using some sort of mobility aidand also just personally
navigating the worldwith different abilities.
(05:12):
So that's kind of my story.
Well,first, I'm glad you've got that unit.
Thank you.
And it's very interestingwhen we think about
invisibilityand who gets erased as a result.
Right.
We'll dive into that more.
Brad, tell us a story.
Tell us your story.
Oh, gosh. My story.
(05:33):
I've been quadriplegic for 44 years now.
And this whole accessibility thingis a second career for me.
I spent 25 years in the televisionbusiness,
and in 1990,
I owned and operated the second largestproduction company west of Toronto.
So we were a very busy group.
(05:55):
And I got a call from my old friendRick Hansen,
and he asked me if I'd be interestedin being the Project Manager
for the largest congressand exposition on disability ever held,
at least to that point.It was called independence 92.
And as a producer, I thought,this is great, I'll go do this.
And I went there and I was,
(06:17):
up till then, I
wasn't part of the community of peoplewith disabilities, I was injured,
I got rehab,I went back to work...
I was a busy guy and life was good,but I had no exposure to people
with disabilities whatsoeveruntil this conference.
And this conference was 2700
delegates from 93 countriesaround the world
(06:38):
with every conceivable disabilityyou can think of.
And in that conference, I met Justin Dart,who was one of the founders of the ADA.
I met Henry Enns from Disabled Peoples’International.
I met Laurie Beachell,part of the independence movement,
and I was blown away by the fact
that there was so much to be doneand so few people doing it.
(07:01):
And actually Henry and
Laurie Beachell looked at me and said,you should be here.
We need peoplewho know how to communicate.
And so at the end of that conference,I wrapped up my television
production company and sold itto the highest bidder and then opened up
Canadian Barrier Free
Design, the first professional accessconsulting firm on the West Coast.
(07:24):
And from there I went on to...
I specialize in large public eventslike the Olympics and the Paralympic Games
and those kinds of things and airportsand stuff like that.
But my whole exposure to that community,
suddenly I
just recognizedhow we were being held back
and we were being held backmostly by the built environment.
(07:46):
And that had to change.
So I was the guy to do it.
So just airports and just the Olympics.
Oh gosh. No.
Those arenot small things, Brad.
Well,I had the great pleasure of being on the
International Paralympic Committee accessworking group.
So that was determining the accessto be provided at all
(08:06):
venues and all events for the Paralympicand Olympic Games.
So that led me into everythingfrom corner stores to bakeries to...
The interesting thing I found iswhen it was the 2008 Games in Beijing,
and then the 2010 games here in Vancouver,we were able to put 200 people, using
wheelchairs on the side of a mountainto watch a downhill ski race.
(08:29):
Nobody had ever done that before.
But whether it was the big, big projectsor the little corner bakery,
the one thing they all had in commonis they knew what accessibility
meant to them, to their organization.
And that's one of the thingsthat's really important.
Access is not black and white.
It's gray.
And how it affects your organizationis critically important.
And it's the same in housing.
(08:50):
That's the same in commercial retail space.
Knowing how it affects your operation
is the only way you're going to knowwhat the return on investment is,
whether that's cash profitor employee benefits or whatever it is,
the onlyway to take that is to take it personally.
And that's what I've been tryingto get people to do now for
(09:12):
almost 30 years in the access business.
So, Brad, I think that's the perfect segueto talk about the impact
of the Rick Hansen Foundation.
Tell me about whatthe organization has done so far
to meet evolving,accessible needs over the years.
How do you ensure your programsremain relevant and impactful?
(09:33):
Well, the foundation has been aroundfor 35 years.
Maybe more than that now.
So we've taken a nationaland international approach.
We're a unique positionto bring organizations open
for people with disabilitiesto go to the corporate world.
And that's
something that Rick Hansen can do thatperhaps nobody else can do as well.
(09:54):
And so that's been a real keyto what we've been moving forward
to try to bring that knowledge forwardand to integrate
the needs of people with disabilitiesinto the every day
thinking of of bureaucrats, of government,of corporate people.
But what we realized,
I was brought into the foundationten years ago
(10:16):
to develop the Rick Hansen FoundationAccessibility Certification Program,
and what we recognized wasthe built environment was the key
to the successof all the other pillars of accessibility,
whether it's employment, transportation,
communications, web access,they all rely on the built environment.
Even if you're working from home,you're in a built environment.
(10:39):
So, the bottom line was,without accessible
destination, accessibletransportation was not as important.
And even the best HR program in the worldwouldn't work
if I couldn't get in the building.
So the built environment became our focus.
Along with the school program.
Our school programis really important to us, but the Built
Environment program,what we had to really do is
(11:03):
get industryto recognize the return on investment.
It's just laying there and they'rejust ignoring, and help them understand
this isn't about more regulationis not about more red tape.
It's about you. It’s about your family.
It's about your mom.
So the the built environmentbecame a focus.
We recognize that the industryhas evolving needs as well.
(11:25):
The demographics are changing.
The industry needs are changing.
All this stuff has to come together.
And it's all about the practicalapplication of universal design
and delivering that is in our DNA.
Can I ask you to define universal design?
Universal design is not a thing.
It's not a prescription.
It doesn't tell youhow wide a door should be.
(11:46):
It doesn't tell you anythingabout what you should do for acoustics.
There are a set of principlesdeveloped by Dr Greg Rice
back in the early 1980s.
And the idea is quite simple.
If you've made an environment workand functional and safe for young people,
and work for older adultsand seniors, everything else in the
(12:07):
middle would work itself out.
So these are principles.
Universal design is an approach.
It's a wayof looking at a built environment.
And once you start seeing barriers topeople with disabilities, you can't stop.
And that's our great advantage. Yeah.
When people go through our course,
you can just see the lights go on.
(12:28):
Now, when an architect discoversthat a handrail
is not just for support,but it's actually navigation,
it tells people with vision losswhere the landings are.
Tell themwhere the path of travel
is. By wrapping that handrail around, itsays, come with me.
I'm going to keep you safeand that's why it's so important
that they meet that codeand that they follow that.
(12:49):
But when they take the course,they see the penny drop.
It's not like, okay, I checked a box.
I did numberone of the seven principles I've got.
It's a way of looking at things,
it's a way of shifting the cultureto see what we really need
in the built environmentis just a broader user base.
(13:10):
Right now, everything'sdesigned for 18 to 55 year old males.
How did that happen?
Not the majority of the population.
So universal design is an approach.
It's a set of principles.
But by itselfit's not going to change the world.
Educationand culture shift is going to take that.
That lens is critical in how we think about housing
(13:34):
and how we think about buildingsand how we think of development.
Doug, what's the perspective of UNITIwhen it comes to addressing
uniquehousing needs, developmental disabilities?
You know,what have been the pressing needs?
Yeah.
And I just wanted to sayto start that
our main building in South Surrey,Administration and Services building,
(13:55):
worked for and received the gold standardfrom the Rick Hansen Foundation.
And it was a really useful thing to gogo through in terms of learning
sort of that universal design.
And as an organization that supportspeople with developmental disabilities
and acquired brain injuries, many of whomalso have physical disabilities...
(14:15):
It was a really usefulprocess for us to go to.
I’d sort of add, from our perspective,
what we have foundis that there's a paradigm of disability,
particularly around peoplewith developmental disabilities, where
there's a rolethat they exist to receive help.
(14:36):
And it's a very charitable model.
And as Brad said, we find
when we talk with peopleand listen to people, that in fact,
they want to have everythingthat everybody else has.
And so we look at our roleas supporting people with
developmental disabilitiesto have the same access to housing,
(14:57):
to have the same variety of housing aseverybody else in the community has.
One way to sort ofmake this clear is that when
people in the general communitythink about people with developmental
disabilities in housing, quite oftenit is about
people with developmental disabilitiesstill living in institutions.
(15:20):
It's about the idea that, oh, well,
you have a developmental disability,then automatically you want a roommate.
The idea thata person with a developmental disability,
the first home that they move into aftertheir family home is their forever home.
And that's not the experienceof most people.
Most people go through a varietyof different housing as they progress.
And so we look at it,UNITI is listening to people.
(15:43):
What is it you want for housing?
And that's why we actually starteddeveloping housing.
We're not developers.
We became a developer because there wasn'tthe type of housing that was needed.
And ironically enough, thattype of housing was just like housing.
That was welcoming to peoplewith developmental disabilities.
So we sometimestry to make things strange and weird,
(16:04):
but in fact, at the end of the day,
our job is to support people withdevelopmental disabilities
to have the same opportunitiesfor housing as everybody else.
Right.
You'refilling a gap. You're filling a need
that people just didn't takeinto consideration because they weren't
listening.
Jewels, you're someone that alsodirectly engages with the community.
(16:25):
What are you hearing fromindividuals and families?
I just think about our place here.
We were built in 1981.
We have 170 units, but there's only four
accessible units,what they term accessible units.
My corridor from the front doorto go around the corner
into where the bedroom dooris, is such a sharp corner
(16:49):
that you can't helpbut take off the drywall on the corners,
because there's no bumpers on the corners.It wasn't built with the proper
concept of what a person with differentabilities needs in order to live
and enjoy their home the same wayanybody else does in the other units.
But also the communityis looking at things like,
since we've got the BC Accessibility Actthat's come in, we have changes.
(17:13):
And I had a member come to me recentlywith something.
I was so grateful she mentioned it to me.
She is visually challenged.
And so at night when she wants to comein our back entrance
through the loading zone area,when she gets dropped off for a ride,
she can't use it because even thoughthere's lighting, it's not adequate
for her to be able to safely navigatethe sidewalk to get into the back door.
(17:35):
So she goes to the side entranceand comes in that one instead.
And that doesn't have an automatic door.
It's further away from where she is,
and I don't think it feels quiteas secure for her either.
But it is.
There is a security camera, so I think
although there have been shiftsand I'm very grateful for the work
(17:56):
that's being done, the AccessibilityAct coming into play and all these things.
I still think there's a great dealmore work that needs to be done for sure.
Yeah, it definitely sounds like that.
And we're talking about individualsat this point, but people in families,
people with extended families.
Right. There's different needsthere as well.
Building on that, how do we ensure that
(18:18):
housing design addresses both physicaland developmental disabilities?
Doug, we know this past summer,construction began on Harmony Apartments,
which is a development designedto offer affordable
and inclusivehousing for a diverse group of residents.
Can you share what designconsiderations went in mind?
I can compare the two.
(18:39):
So we built Chorus in 2016.The first
purpose built rental building in Surreyin about three decades.
And at that time we were like, okay, howmany adoptable units do we have to build?
And it was four.
So we said, well, we'll do double, we'll build eight because
that's what we believe in.
And it was a very sad experiencewith Chorus
(19:01):
because of the 71 homes,
20 were for peoplewith developmental disabilities.
And it turned out that none of them reallyhad any serious physical disabilities.
And so, they didn't need the adaptableunits, which was great.
So we were like, okay,well, we've got eight adaptable units.
That's awesome.
We can now have peoplewith physical disabilities move in.
(19:23):
But when we looked out there and we tried,the problem was
there was a disconnectbetween the adaptable unit
and the rent that we neededto get for those units.
And because we were usingour funding,
that was a building built largely
with our funding, to support the tenantswith developmental disabilities,
(19:43):
we couldn't address that gap and rentfor people with physical disabilities.
And it was very unfortunate.
In fact, at the end of the day,it was just one gentleman
who actually came from Kelownawho needed the adaptable unit and used it.
And the other seven, we had to justrent out to the general population.
So that saddened me at that time.
What I like about theHarmony Project is it's
(20:04):
part of the CommunityHousing Fund with BC
Housing and was supported by BC Housing,and that comes with requirements
to have six adaptable units,but even better, six accessible units.
So we're going to have 12 in totaland six of them accessible.
I love that. We are still going to havethe same percentage of homes for people
(20:24):
with developmental disabilities, butbecause also the way the rents are set up,
where 20% are going to be at shelter rate,so those are likely to be people
with developmental disabilities,
but then 50% of the rents are at rentgeared to income.
And that means that we will be ableto use the adaptable
and accessible unitsfor people who actually need that.
(20:46):
And I'm very happy for that.
So it's a better setup.
That’s a very novel concept actually.
To be able to move
around where youneed to be with those subsidies in place, yeah.
Yeah.
And it makes us accountableas a landlord as well
that people aren't choosing usjust because we have a subsidy,
(21:09):
but they're choosing usbecause we're good landlords, which we are.
Right, right. Exactly.
Brad and Jewels, like what other factors?
We're talking about income.
What other factors do you thinkare important to creating housing
that fosters independence and belongingand a sense of community.
Having access to resourcesand having someone
(21:29):
within the community that you'repart of or that you're representing
that has the knowledge base of knowingwhere to go and who to connect with.
And for me personally, being involvedin the community and different committees
and stuff that I'm involvedin, it's been really beneficial
because it's helped me to connectwith a lot of different types of people
that are doing community work
(21:50):
in the Tri-Cities area,and so I've been able to, for my members
and for people in the community,be able to say, hey, I've met this person.
They're able to help you with this.
Right now, we have an individualwho needed assistance with income
in order to continue to live in the co-opbecause he was disabled,
but he had been supported by his familyand they both passed away.
(22:11):
And now he's all of a suddenliving on his own.
He's run out of his trust money and boom,how am I supposed to survive?
And he did not have the skillset to be independent
without assistance.
So fortunately, through SHARE, we wereable to give him assistance with getting
PWD started,
gettinghis income support there for himself,
(22:33):
start to work on
other things that he needs to doand get him downsizing to a smaller unit,
which will be more manageableand more in line with his income.
So having the ability to knowwho to connect with is really important.
So I think one areathat we need to grow in is...
You wouldn't want to do... It’s not a fair type thing,
(22:55):
but somethingwhere there is the ability to
bring togetherlike minded people that genuinely care
about freedom of access
and quality of life for all membersof the community that you're part of,
and just bringing people togetherand brainstorming and also just learning
to connect with one anotherso you know who to reach out to.
(23:17):
Like I have people
that have reached out to mebecause they knew that I was at a co-op
and might be able to assistsomeone that needed housing desperately,
or I learned about through Community
Land Trust that they have a fund for womenfleeing domestic violence
that are looking for assistance,
paying for their shares to get intoa housing co-op or a disabled person.
There are so many resourcesthat of all of us represent
(23:42):
different organizations, that we know aboutbecause of the work that we do,
but I don't think there's a goodcohesive way yet
of connecting those dots to make itmore readily available when needed.
Okay, that's definitely food for thought.
And that plays into the future, right, of...
(24:02):
and shaping the futureof accessible living.
Brad, what are the trends?
What are wegoing to be looking for?
Well, just on that topic,let's remember there's two issues here.
One is economicand the other is the built environment.
They are not the same.Not interchangeable.
The accessible dwelling project
(24:22):
that's been booted down the road to 2027.
But if we can start, if every home isbuilt to anticipate the needs of the user.
In other words, be adaptable.
It's not just little portionsof a development, not 5%, not 10%.
All of a sudden Jewels and Doug,
they've got much more choice.
(24:43):
They can work...
So the economic issues can beput into almost any development then,
because almost any development would workif they follow the rules.
So that's what's really importantis to separate those two issues.
Too often I see like a development designfor seniors,
but the only design that went intoit is the economic model.
They didn't talk about hallwayswith 90 degree corners.
(25:05):
You know, one of the things we recommendis just take the corners off.
It's those oblique things, right.
We took the corners offto make it easier for people using
mobility devicesand not hitting walls and stuff.
It turned out it was a big benefitfor people using sign language
as they're walking along,talking to each other
and the 90 degree corner comes up,
inclusion hazards.
(25:26):
But if when that corner was cut off,they could see an advanced
and in a couple of instances,
we put a convex mirror on the wall soyou can see what's coming down the hall.
So making the built environment workfor everyone...
Now that's the start.
Now the economic model comes into play.
And organizationslike UNITI can take over and start
making creative, real,meaningful access for users.
(25:50):
You can't tell me how to make my homeaccessible because you don't know me.
Yeah, I can't use a grab bar. These...
I'm a quad. These don't grab anything.
So there's no grab bars in my house.
If you look closely, you’ll noticeone of the bookcases beside the toilet
sticks out about three inchesfurther than it should.
And that's because I lean on it.
(26:12):
That's my grab bar.
You can't know that.
So from building homesfor people with disabilities,
the idea that you can create accessiblesuite for me is ludicrous.
You don't know me.
So it's better to create a suite
that anticipates the needs of me,or when I move out the next user
and have the infrastructure ready for
(26:33):
the needs of UNITI,the needs of the co-op users.
I think that's actually a very interestingpoint, Brad, is that once again,
you're pointing out having a space that
is adaptable is key to begin with.
My mother has recently
fallen ill,and I'm navigating that for her.
(26:54):
She lives with me.
So that's anotherconsideration, is families that bring in
or supportindividuals...
Intergenerational living.
You know, we don'ttake advantage.
The other cultures do it all the timeand we just don't.
And it's so vexing to me.
And that combinedwith the concept of
we call able bodied people TABs
(27:17):
because you're only temporarilyable bodied.
It doesn't matter whether you do a face plant
when you're a teenager,you end up in a wheelchair or you're 65.
You need a walker and a hearing aid.
You will be part of our community.
We're the largestminority group in the world,
and the only one that anyone can joinat any moment, whether it's a fall down
the stairs, an illness, car accident,or as they say, if you just get old.
(27:40):
The bottom lineis, it's not about somebody else.
It's about you and your family.
It's about your mom.
Exactly. And
I mean, these conversationsseem very niche to people sometimes,
but they are really just so broadand so impactful in community.
What would you say to people
(28:01):
who would questionthe specificity of this conversation?
What would either of you, anyone,say to them
about how important this isfor a broader, larger community?
I think when you look at statisticsregarding health, mental health
of people that live in communitiesthat have people of different age
groups, you will actually find thatthey are healthier.
(28:24):
Seniors love to have the abilityto see kids around them,
especially those that don't have grandkidsthat are living close by.
My daughter lives in a unit downthe hall from me, my chosen daughter.
She's a wonderful galand she helps me out quite a bit.
So she comes and helps me with some ofthe things that I find difficult to do.
(28:44):
And we actually split groceries.
We split the cost of other thingsbecause the cost of living is so high
and I'm on a pension, she's
working full time,but we share the cost of food and stuff.
There's other ways, and as a co-op,we've had people mention
maybe we could have a Costco cardand go and bulk buy certain things
so that we have the ability to help peoplethat are struggling within
(29:06):
our community. So to me,
the concept of supportive
environment,not just the accessible environment,
but a supportive environment,an environment where you build community.
Whatever development you're part of.
Because truthfully, years agowhen I lived in an apartment building,
I could say hi to my neighboursand I knew who they were.
(29:29):
But truthfully, you said hi.
Have a good day.
That was about it.You didn't really know them.
Whereas I've lived in a housing co-opfor 27.5 years,
and I know nearly everybody here,and not just because of my role
working on the board,but just in general, getting to know them
because it's a more social environment,it's a more welcoming environment usually.
(29:51):
co-op living.
And so there is a proviso that you must bewilling to volunteer in some way.
They want you to participate.
Our mission has to be to keep people
in their communitiesas long as humanly possible,
to stay in their homesas long as humanly possible.
Even when they have to go into longterm care, it should be small facilities
(30:13):
within their communityso they can stay there.
And it takes all advantage of
the whole community piece,the intergenerational living piece.
You know, when
grandma can't go see her grandsonplay hockey at the local arena
because the sidewalks are crackedor the door is too heavy, or
the stairs are too steep, or whateverit might be to keep her away
when she can't go there a little threadbreaks,
(30:36):
right?
It distances her from her family,
it distances her from the community and
the whole system starts to break down.
And we need to respect our eldersmore than we are.
Why can't the bottom two floorsof any new condominium
(30:58):
be set up as Long-Term Care Suites?
You know, one of the suiteswould be dedicated to a resident
in care person.
And the bottom two...
So as you age,you actually move down in your building.
You know, for the building owner,he retains the asset
and undoubtablly some supportfrom the health care system
and return on investment for the owner,its return on investment for the community
(31:21):
is return on investment for the person who'sjust trying to stay part of their family
without feelingthat they're a burden to it.
Yeah, and Jewels and Brad,I think you really nailed it
with your comments about community
and includingmultigenerational community.
And, you know, historically, peoplewith developmental disabilities...
You talked about a thread, Brad.
(31:41):
There was a cord
that was cut because children wereput into institutions and separated.
And now, the joy of a tenantwith developmental disability
being able to go to the store, phone theirmom and say, hey, mom, I'm at the store.
Is there anything I can pick you up?
Such a simple, simple thing, simpleact of kindness that all of us has done,
(32:03):
a person with a developmental disabilitynever having the opportunity to do that.
And now they do. And of course they do.
And that reciprocal relationshipbetween the...
we have no policy in our apartments about
you have to do things together,nothing like that.
But by the very fact that there are peoplewith developmental disabilities
who are part of that housingfirst of all, it kind of sets,
(32:25):
people choose to move into that place,know that.
So it kind of... that's a bitof a vetting right at the very beginning.
But then the people that are livingthere, it's just fantastic. Families,
seniors, people with disabilities.
We've had four babies bornin the last year, and it's just fantastic
to have a community
that cares about each otherand also is completely great
(32:49):
for the business community because peoplewho live in affordable housing, they shop
locally, they don't go to Palm Springsfor half of the year.
And if you're shopping locally,so the dollar store or the Safeway, etc.,
they love the fact that that buildingis being built next to them
because they've got 100 peoplethat are shopping at their store.
(33:10):
So it's great for the community, it’s greatfor the business community.
I would add that we do quality of life
surveys every 3 or 4 years,scientifically verified.
And recently,
they now have an indicatorof like the average British Columbian.
And so people without disabilitiesand the tenants with disabilities
who live in Chorusapartments have a higher quality of life
(33:33):
than the average British Columbian,something that it's very unheard of,
when it comes to peoplewith developmental disabilities.
However, I would also make the argumentthat if we were to survey
the entire building, everyone who lives inthat building has a
higher quality of lifethan the average British Columbian,
because their greatest worry of BritishColumbians has been taken off the table,
which is to have safe, affordable housing.
(33:56):
They don't have to worry about that.
Well, this TAB thanks you.
All three of you.
I'm going to use that now.That's a great term.
You’re such a wise panel of expertswith lived experience, and
I'm just so grateful for this conversationand your perspectives.
We've barely scratched the surface.
And yeah, there's so much to unpack.
(34:19):
But again, thank you so much.
It's been so great listening to youand hearing your different perspectives.
I really appreciate it.
To learn more about BC Housing,
including how to apply for subsidizedhousing in British Columbia, visit
www.bchousing.org
You can also find uson Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and X.
(34:43):
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