April 2, 2025 • 27 mins
Certified Executor Advisor and author David Edey addresses the personal experience that led him to helping others, the 3 types of families, managing your digital estate assets, the worst job you can ask of someone you love, and why legacy isn't what you leave people, but how you leave them.
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Episode Transcript
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Gary Michels (00:00):
Welcome to Let's Talk Legacy, and we're excited
today to have our guest DavidEdey. David Edey is a certified
executor advisor and authorbased in Montreal, Canada,
specializing in estate andlegacy planning with over 35
years of experience. So welcometo the show.
David Edey (00:18):
Thanks for having me. Really appreciate having
this conversation, lookingforward to it.
Gary Michels (00:21):
Absolutely. So let's dig right in here. Now
your main goal is to make estateand legacy planning simple, but
you say that you've learnedfirsthand the kind of mess that
can happen with these pieces notbeing in place. So share that
first hand experience with us,if you don't mind, and share
what happened for you to make astatement like that.
David Edey (00:42):
Well, it all started for me when I was sitting on a
cold courtroom bench. My heartwas starting to sink because I
was sitting listening to twolawyers and a judge determined
the fate of my parents assets,assets that we didn't end up
holding on to, and and that wasbecause I lost both my parents
to cancer within a year of eachother, and I didn't know that
(01:05):
losing them was going to be sodifficult. It wasn't so much of
the loss of both of them, but itwas the staggering toll to
settle their estate. It tookseven years, 10 court
appearances and $50,000 oflawyers fees to settle their
estate, and they had a will, andduring that tough time, it ended
up me having a life and healthcrisis, where it culminated in
(01:25):
me having triple bypass surgery.And it was during the turmoil
the court cases and everything,that I came to the realization
that in our family, we were soutterly unprepared, not only
unprepared for losing my parentsand the grief that goes with it,
but it was also theinevitability of death and
having that conversation. Soduring COVID, I wrote the book,
(01:47):
executor help how to settle anestate, pick an exec and avoid
family fights, because I didn'twant people to have to go
through what I went through.
Gary Michels (01:54):
Wow. When that happened and you were on that
bench and you decided, I'm goingto make a difference here.
What's your ultimate goal withthat, is it to take an industry
or something that's not there,that people don't know anything
about? Is there a little bit ofknowledge?
David Edey (02:09):
It's to get people to have the conversations. And
that's what I'm about because,you know, it's probably the a
dirty little secret in a lot offamilies. A lot of families will
either avoid, they'llprocrastinate, or they'll be
apathetic and say, Well, I'mgoing to be dead. What
difference will it make? Well,it will make a difference,
because now what you're leavingbehind is disorganization and
(02:31):
chaos in your family. And ifthat's what you you hope to
leave behind, and that's how youwant to be, that's a legacy that
you want to leave behind is forthings that you didn't do, then
you're setting yourself, yourfamily, up for failure, and not
only for the the nextgeneration, but for generations
after that. Through my researchand talking to people, is that I
(02:52):
see that there's three types offamilies. There's a family
that's going to avoid talkingabout it, because if they they
talk about they feel that deathor something bad is going to
happen, or there's a family thatthey're going to do something,
but they're going to have awill, but they're not going
anybody know about it. They'regoing to let the paperwork do
all the talking. So there'sgoing to be surprises, surprises
in terms of, you know, how theestate is going to be. So
(03:13):
surprises that who's going to bethe executor? All of a sudden
they find out that, you know, Ihave a friend that she was asked
to be an executor by her uncle,and didn't know that she was
going to be the executor. Shegot a phone call from a lawyer
one day and say, Well, you're ayou're the executor, and she
knew the family history betweenher cousins, and she said, No, I
(03:34):
don't want to be part of this,part of this mess, so that's
where you laying the paperwork,doing the talking, and don't
have those conversations, andthen there's a family that's
going to be prepared, but you'repreparing the next generation.
You're having openconversations. You realize what
could happen if we don't haveopen conversations.
Gary Michels (03:52):
I love it. Planning to you comes down to
two big ideas, and I love thisthought here, love and order.
Why each of those?
David Edey (04:01):
Because everything that we're going to do is the
biggest, is this, the greatestgift of love that you can give
your family, that you're goingto take the time to, you know,
majority of Americans andCanadians is, you know, it's
about 150 million Americans and15 million Canadians don't have
a will or an estate plan. If youcould just take that first step
(04:22):
to first get a will and thenprepare your executor so that
you don't, you know, leave anymesses or chaos, and then have
the conversations with yourfamily. You're leaving love and
order. You're not leaving themto be, you know, lost,
disorganized, because whenyou're gone, there's going to be
an immense amount of grief, andthey're not going to know where
(04:43):
to go, where to start. And ifyou can just give them a little
bit of a road map and preparethem for if something was to
happen, to be prepared, it'sgoing to make their lives a lot
more easier, because they'regoing to be grieving the loss of
the individual view. So that'swhy I'm trying to make sure
that. People leave a legacy oflove and order.
Gary Michels (05:03):
What to you, David, is the difference between
legacy and estate planning? Isthere a difference between the
two?
David Edey (05:09):
Estate Planning is more the technical thing, the
I'd say the tax planning, theinvestments, making sure things
are in order, making sure you'rehaving the will a legacy where
we're doing legacy planning,everything that I went through,
and when I talk about my journeyof loss, the one thing that's
taught me about will be profoundabout a legacy is that we we're
(05:30):
not going to remember for themoney or the possessions that we
leave, but rather, what we cando is instill in the people that
we love so much, is to haveconversations that we dread, and
have those conversations now. SoI also like to say a legacy
isn't what you leave people, buthow you leave them. So again,
you know, one of the things Ilike to do is I started is write
(05:52):
a legacy letter. Wrote it to myson last Christmas, and now I
just have a new granddaughter. Iwant to write letters, letters
to her. So there's going to besomething. It's not, yes,
there's the material things inthe possessions, but that's not
what we're going to remember.We're going to remember for the
values, our thoughts and thingsthat who we are, so that they
can, we can instill something inthem going forward, and that
(06:14):
will always be in theirmemories, not just, you know, a
collection of stuff or money,because that's going to fade
away. How you leave the legacyof being remembered and the
values that you you want to passon to the next generation,
that's what's important.
Gary Michels (06:32):
So there's a few key areas where you often find
trouble and need to step in. Sowe'd like to address a few of
those now, starting withpreventing conflicts. Can you
share a little bit about theimportance of communication and
some strategies and how to dealwith inheritance and how to do
the whole thing withoutconflict? Is that, is that even
(06:53):
possible?
David Edey (06:54):
No, because I like to say now, if you know, you
know more than 35 years in theindustry, and we've seen
stories, and I've come to theconclusion is that all families
are messy. You know, we mightthink that, Oh, we're a great
family, you know, we tell jokes,and we've got our favorite meals
and that sort of stuff, and welaugh and joke and stuff like
that. All of that doesn't reallymatter. All it takes is a death
(07:18):
in the family to change theprojectory of how the family,
you know, if it's a matriarch ora patriarch, you know, mom and
dad are gone. They were alwaysprobably the guiding light, the
beacon that held the familytogether. They're gone. And the
turmoil, the the jealousy, allof that sort of stuff, starts to
come out. Because you reallydon't know about somebody until
you have to share an inheritancewith them. Believe me, I know
(07:40):
those deep rooted familyproblems are always there, but
they seem to bubble to the top,because when it becomes an
estate, or there's moneyinvolved, so the only way that
you can do that is to have openconversations. So you know what?
I've decided that I've put eventogether my estate. I'm done
some things with my will. I'm,you know, if you whoever your
(08:03):
executors, I have a separateconversation with them and prep
them, but I would also let thefamily know this is what my
wishes are. You may not likethem, but this is what I want
going forward, because I don'twant any family feuds. Even
though you do have thoseconversations, there's always
going to be one covertnarcissist in the family that's
always going to be, you know,who's always been trouble.
There's always one sibling or acousin who's going to speak up
(08:26):
and make things difficult. Andif you identify who those people
are, and you've already hadthose open conversations, when
something does happen, theycan't come back and say, well,
we should be doing this. Weshould be doing there's no
ambiguity of what should begoing on. So it's all about
open, honest conversations. Atleast it's all out and open.
It's not going to be secrecy,secrecy and surprises.
Gary Michels (08:48):
Do you have any suggestions on how a person
brings it up?
David Edey (08:51):
Well the first thing is that you want to have, like,
again, like I say at the holidaytime, that's a lot of times when
people get together. I like tosit down, sit with everybody. I
just a couple of things I liketo bring up. Now a lot of
people, they might, you know, ifyou say I'm going to talk about
my estate plan or will or someof that, they're like, Oh, are
you sick? Are you? Is something?Are you dying? No, you just want
(09:12):
to put them to rest. You want toput their mind at ease. Say, No,
I'm not. But again, there'sstill probably going to be some
people, maybe some of thechildren. So I don't want to
hear this. I don't want to hearI don't know why you're bringing
this up. It doesn't matter. Youhave to sit them down, let them
understand. This is what'simportant. Spoiler alert, we're
all going to die. So why notprepare for the inevitable at
some point and prepare thefamily for, you know, what's
(09:34):
going to happen in life? So Iwould again, start the
situations. You know, I recentlymet with a financial advisor or
a state lawyer, and I'm puttingmy things together because I
want things to be organizedwhile I still have my faculties
about me. And you know, youmight explain decisions why
you're doing them again. Peoplemay not like it, but it doesn't
matter. It's your state. There'sno law that you have to leave
(09:56):
somebody a certain percentage orthey're entitled to any. Because
that's the problem wherebeneficiaries start to have that
feeling of entitlement, thatthey're entitled to something
equal doesn't always mean fairin some people's eyes. So you
want to try and quash those,those feelings, those thoughts,
because people are going toconjure up in their mind what's
(10:17):
in what they're entitled to ifyou're no longer here. So be
open and have those openconversations and let people
know where you stand.
Gary Michels (10:24):
Do you recommend those conversations are made
without lawyers there orlawyers?
David Edey (10:29):
If you want to bring that third party in and say, you
know, let's have a familymeeting. That's done a lot, a
lot of high net worthindividuals do have consistent
family meetings. You know? Maybethey do it on vacations, they
have a retreat or something, andthey're teaching the generation
what's coming next. It's justpassed on from generation to
generation. So, you know, youyou might have a family meeting,
(10:52):
you might have a lawyer or afinancial advisor explain the
estate plan. But again, you needto be present for it, so that
you can have those, you know,answer any questions and be open
to listen to people'sviewpoints, but at the end of
the day, you have to have a planin terms of what you want to
accomplish in that familymeeting.
Gary Michels (11:10):
So today people digital legacies are now much
more of a thing. Can we discussstrategies of handling digital
assets and ensuring theirmanaged according to people's
wishes?
David Edey (11:21):
Yeah. Well, that's an important part of estate
planning. And legacy planning isdigital estate your digital
estate assets. A lot of peopledon't really think about it, but
you know, for every one emailaddress, there's at least 160
email addresses related to thatemail address. So you've got
YouTube, your social media, yourNetflix, Amazon, all of those
(11:45):
things. And people don't takeany consideration that that's
important, that there's a somesort of record of where it's
going to be all kept, you know,to apprise your your your
executor or some family member,because each social media
company has its own protocol toshut things down. So like for
Facebook, there's memorializingor you might shut down the
(12:06):
account altogether. So each areayou need to be concerned about.
So digital estate, your digitalassets, are very important. And
when I say digital assets, it'sanything you've ever created or
done online that's out there.And we spend so much time on the
internet and online that we needto be cognizant of it, because
if we're not, it also lendsitself to for frauds and scams
(12:30):
going forward.
Gary Michels (12:31):
Let's talk about the executor a little bit, the
person who makes sure yourwishes are fulfilled. What are
some tips and insights on how tochoose and prepare the right
executor, or maybe some commonmisconceptions around what
exactly an executor can and cando. And how do you deal with all
that?
David Edey (12:50):
Well, first off, let me say it's the worst job that
you could ask somebody to do foryou, because nobody wants to be
an executor. But on the otherhand, you have to take in
consideration, if you're thetestator, someone's you know,
the person who's writing thewill, is that you realize that
this is also a big favor, a bigask you're asking of somebody.
Now, when people are asked to beexecutors, 99% of the time, they
(13:12):
have no idea what's involvedwith the job, and they're taking
the job because they feel it's asense of duty. They're honored
by it, but they don't realizethat they're looking at anywhere
from 100 hours or 18 to 24months to settle out of state.
And a lot of the times, they'regoing to have to do that during
working hours. And not only dothey have to, you know, deal
with the tax department andlawyers, they also have to deal
(13:35):
with ungrateful beneficiaries.So and you've got that family
drama in there because of thework that's involved. For an
executor, the beneficiary is notinterested in that. They're only
interested in their check. Whenam I going to get paid? And you
know you've got as an executor,you have to make sure that go
through probate the taxes aregoing to be paid because you as
(13:55):
the executor, you're beinglegally held liable for the
estate, because you're theyou're seen as the
administrator, but thebeneficiary doesn't see that. So
one of the tips and strategies,I would say, is, first, if
you're going to take on the jobas an executor, you have to ask
the testator, how are you goingto prepare me for this job? You
know, who is the lawyer, who isyour financial advisor, who's
(14:17):
your accountant? Have you gotthat in place? So if something
was to happen, I know where tocontact them, where's the will
going to be kept? Where are yourdigital assets going to be kept?
And then also the beneficiaries.As the executor, I would say,
keep them informed, so that yousend them off, maybe an email,
or have a zoom call every twoweeks or so and say, hey, just
(14:39):
to keep you abreast of what'sgoing on. You know what's going
on in the estate? Because onceyou are there's radio silence
from the executor. Beneficiariesstart to think that you're up to
something, you're stealing,you're doing something. And it
doesn't take much running for abeneficiary to want to haul you
into court, which means takesyou away from your not only your
work, but also takes time. Awayfrom settling, helping to settle
(15:02):
the estate, which also thatmoney is going to have to come
from somewhere. Where's thatgoing to come from the estate?
What about the person who has noidea who you know works in, in a
different industry altogether,who knows not, who's not good
with finances, or, you know,legal or who to talk to, you
know? And that's a majority ofus, most people, they don't take
the time to think about, okay,what? How can I prepare my
(15:23):
executor? How can I make iteasier on them? You know, have a
list of, you know, the executor,the insurance agent. There's so
many people that are going tocome involved. You got to deal
with a real estate agent. In mybook, I say there's probably
your baseline of a team that youneed is the lawyer, the
accountant and the financialadvisor, but there's probably
(15:43):
going to be maybe even 16 moreprofessionals that you're gonna
have to deal with. You're gonnahave to deal with someone. Maybe
it's gonna have to, you know, doan estate sale. You're gonna
have to do, we deal with a realestate agent there. You know,
there's so many people thatyou're gonna have to deal with,
and they're all you'reresponsible for, orchestrating
all this. Now you're over hereon the left hand side,
orchestrating everything, andyou've got the benefit for She's
(16:05):
over here on the right handside. All they're interested in
is, when am I getting my money?But you've got all this other
these other balls that you haveto be juggling, like you're in
Cirque du Soleil. So you need tofigure out, how am I going to
get what I've got to get done?But also, how do I keep them
abreast of what's going on soyou can get through it with, you
know, some sort of semblance ofpeace of mind that you at least
(16:27):
can go to sleep at night.
Gary Michels (16:29):
So being that we're a national insurance
agency with hundreds of Agentsaround the country, we deal
every day with people makingthat decision on buying a term
policy or an index UniversalLife or or a final expense
policy to cover some of theseexpenses, and you're right there
in the thick of it. Why is itimportant and critical that
(16:49):
people have these things inplace? How does a person go
about looking for insurance andfinding the right insurance for
them, in your opinion?
David Edey (16:57):
It would come down to the individual that you're
dealing with, and what kind ofreport do are they taking the
time to understand your needs,taking a look at your situation
from 40,000 feet up, and lookingdown, seeing the the problems 10
steps ahead of you that youdon't even think about with the
right insurance in place, that'sgoing to also that's Another
(17:20):
part of that gift of love thatyou are making sure that your
family is going to be taken careof. So, you know, you want to
talk to an agent that's going totake the time to truly
understand what your needs are,but also ask you questions that
you hadn't, don't even thinkabout related to your personal
situation. I mean, you can,anybody can go buy insurance off
(17:40):
the street, and you know that'sthat's off the rack. But if you
have a true professional that'sgoing to take the time to
understand your needs and whatmakes sense for your family, so
you don't leave themdisorganized in chaos, then you
need to have a made to measure,plan, to make sure that the
dollars are being spentproperly, that you again,
prepare your family for thefuture. So you leave a legacy,
(18:02):
and not a legacy and a mess.
Gary Michels (18:04):
Absolutely, I've seen too many people call me and
say they didn't want to puttheir children through the mess
that their sister put their kidsthrough, or their husband put
them through. And it'sinteresting to me, because it
surprises me, and I'm not surewhat the numbers are in Canada,
but in in America, over 100million people don't have any
life insurance that are eligiblefor it, and another 100 million
(18:26):
don't have enough. It blows mymind, because that is part of
the leaving a legacy, part ofthe estate planning. It's part
of of everything. And if you doit right these days, so if you,
especially if you do it whileyou're still healthy. That I
wanted to talk about that alittle bit. There's so many
programs out there, especiallyin the index universal life, in
the annuity space, that are norisk, only have an upside with
(18:50):
living benefits. I think peoplelook at life insurance and they
don't pay as much attention toit as they should, but it is
such a big part of that wholeplanning.
David Edey (19:00):
Absolutely. But you see it comes back to, I mean,
the numbers, I don't know thenumbers in Canada, but it'll be
the same thing what you saidthere in the US, that either
they don't have life insuranceor they don't have enough it
comes back to they don't have awill, or they haven't properly
addressed the problem of estateplanning and a will. And it
comes back down to what I hadsaid before, people want to
(19:22):
avoid they're going toprocrastinate. Oh, I've got
plenty of time, but you don'tknow what's going to happen in
life. So why wait? Why take forchance in terms of your life
insurance coverage and makingsure that your estate plan and
your estate is in order, youraffairs are in order? Or there's
the people that do have theconversations with you, and you
(19:43):
know your agents is that I needto make sure that if something
was to happen, I'm going to makesure that my family isn't left
disorganizing chaos. It's achoice. It's a choice that
people have to make. Again,spoiler alert, we're all going
to die. So how do you want to beremembered? You You want to just
leave a legacy, or you want toleave a mess?
Gary Michels (20:03):
Yeah, I'm loving hearing what you're saying,
David, that's all aboutaccountability and
responsibility for your life.
David Edey (20:09):
That's the love and order that I'm talking about. I
should also mention one thing,for a lot of people, they see
the messes that people have, youknow, in other families, and
there's damaging family fightsbecause of it. And a lot of
people are also opting forhaving banks or trust companies
or as corporate trustees. Sothey bring in a third person to
(20:31):
be the executive, and they takethe burden away from the family.
That's also becoming verypopular. But you also, I would
add, if you do go that route,it's going to be a little bit
more costly. But you have tomake the decisions in terms of,
don't think about the cost it.Think about what is, what is the
return on investment in terms ofmy family going forward? What's
(20:52):
the return on investment if Ichoose somebody to spend those
100 hours to be my executor? Soeither way, do something, you
have to make a decision whatyou're going to do.
Gary Michels (21:02):
Do you have any success stories that are on the
tip of your tongue? You youputting this plan in place? And
my god, I'm so the story touchesmy heart. Is there anything on
in your mind right now that youcan think of?
David Edey (21:12):
A friend of mine when I was we're going through
their estate plan and gettingthings organized. She started to
tell me about when her her dadpassed away. She was nine years
old. He passed away without awill, so her mother was already
gone. Her dad passed awaywithout a will, and he was still
going through his dad, so whichwould be his her grandfather, he
(21:35):
had no will. So we had twogenerations of no wills, and the
father was still startingthrough his father's estate.
Then he passes away, but thepoint she remembers and why she
was doing what she was doing toget her estate plan in order for
her and her family, becauseshe's a successful business
owner, she remembers in thefuneral home parking lot her
(21:56):
brother. She remembers her aunttaking her and another and
taking her brother, becausethere was no estate plan in
place. There was no what's goingto happen to the kids. And she
remembers, even though she'sbecome successful, and it stayed
with her, she remembers, overthe years, having to her her
aunt, having to petition thecourt to get you know, because
(22:17):
the court takes over in terms ofthe dispensing of money to the
to the kids, so her mom, heraunt, would always have to go to
court to get extras for her, forher school and everything like
that. And that stayed with her,and that's why she didn't want
to have that problem for herkids going forward. And so, you
know, put together an estateplan so that she's organized as
(22:38):
a business owner. She's also gota succession plan in place, and
she's organized, and that's,that's one of them that it
sticks out to me in terms of,she remembers distinctly being
separated from her brother at inthe parking lot her funeral of
her father.
Gary Michels (22:54):
that's just, that's a great story. So what
does word legacy mean to you in general?
David Edey (22:58):
Again, I said it before. It's not about money or
possessions. It's about havingthe tough conversations, the
ones that we dread, with thepeople that we love, and having
those conversations now don'twait. Think about what kind of
legacy that you want to leave behind.
Gary Michels (23:13):
What legacy Do you want to leave through your work
and business you serve, asopposed to a legacy you just
want to leave as a human being?
David Edey (23:21):
As a work, it's just to get more people to have the
conversation. I was on the phonethis morning with a client at 78
years old, and I keep talking tohim, and he had a copy of my
book. I had this conversationabout two hours ago, and I said,
I said, George. I said, whereare we at with the will? He
says, I don't have one. I said,we had he goes. I know we
brought up you brought up theconversation. So we I set goals
(23:43):
for him. I says, I'm going tofollow up with you and I'm going
to make the appointment for youwith the notary so that you get
this stuff in place. I said, youhave no will. You've got sizable
assets. And I said, What wouldhappen to you? Forget the dying
part supposed to becomeincapacitated. You can't speak
for yourself. What's going tohappen? Dead silence on the
phone. So it's my missionthrough, you know, having
(24:05):
conversations with you andpeople like you is that people
realize that they need to dosomething. Don't keep thinking,
Oh, I've got, I've got anotherfive years, or I don't need to
think about that. You know, Idon't need the life insurance. I
don't need all those things Ineed. You need to take
accountability and do things nowI hear people saying, you know,
once we get go through theexercise and they've got things
(24:27):
in place, they feel a burden offof their shoulders. They feel better.
Gary Michels (24:31):
You do, you do. Now you've got a podcast of your
own as well. Tell us about wherepeople can have a listen.
David Edey (24:38):
It's called Executor Help, and I just have
conversations like we're havinghere. It's all stories about
life, Death and legacy. I've hadsome amazing conversations, and
it's amazing since I launchedthe podcast the week the book
came out in 2021 I met someinteresting people. They all
have the same sort of thoughtthat we need to be organized. We
(24:59):
need to. Have conversations. Youknow, I've had widows talking
about the grief of losing theirparents. I had hospice nurse
talk about what it's like, youknow, when they're there with
with families and people at theend. And I also have people
talking about life, what makesliving to 100 what's that,
what's that could be like, andwhat you need to do. So again,
(25:21):
it's all stories about life,Death and legacy.
Gary Michels (25:24):
That's awesome. If someone wants to get in touch
with you to hear more about whatyou do and your services. How
can they reach you?
David Edey (25:31):
Just go to Davidedey.com I've got on there.
There's plenty of stuff. You cantake the legacy readiness quiz.
See where you where you stand.You can get a chapter of a
chapter on my book, so you canget it digitally, or for your
listening pleasure, you can haveme read the book to you the
first chapter. And I've also gotthe 50 questions that executors
(25:53):
need answered plenty of there'svideos on there. There's a free
checklist of resources of whatyou need to be an executor, or
if you're a testator, you wantto put that checklist in with
your will so the executor knowsexactly what needs to be done.
There's a version for the USlisteners, and there's a version
(26:13):
for Canadian listeners.
Gary Michels (26:15):
And if you're looking David up, it's David
Edey, E, D, E, y.com, and Ithank you so much for joining
our podcast.
David Edey (26:24):
Thank you.
Welcome to Let's Talk Legacy, and we're excited
today to have our guest DavidEdey. David Edey is a certified
executor advisor and authorbased in Montreal, Canada,
specializing in estate andlegacy planning with over 35
years of experience. So welcometo the show.
David Edey (00:18):
Thanks for having me. Really appreciate having
this conversation, lookingforward to it.
Gary Michels (00:21):
Absolutely. So let's dig right in here. Now
your main goal is to make estateand legacy planning simple, but
you say that you've learnedfirsthand the kind of mess that
can happen with these pieces notbeing in place. So share that
first hand experience with us,if you don't mind, and share
what happened for you to make astatement like that.
David Edey (00:42):
Well, it all started for me when I was sitting on a
cold courtroom bench. My heartwas starting to sink because I
was sitting listening to twolawyers and a judge determined
the fate of my parents assets,assets that we didn't end up
holding on to, and and that wasbecause I lost both my parents
to cancer within a year of eachother, and I didn't know that
(01:05):
losing them was going to be sodifficult. It wasn't so much of
the loss of both of them, but itwas the staggering toll to
settle their estate. It tookseven years, 10 court
appearances and $50,000 oflawyers fees to settle their
estate, and they had a will, andduring that tough time, it ended
up me having a life and healthcrisis, where it culminated in
(01:25):
me having triple bypass surgery.And it was during the turmoil
the court cases and everything,that I came to the realization
that in our family, we were soutterly unprepared, not only
unprepared for losing my parentsand the grief that goes with it,
but it was also theinevitability of death and
having that conversation. Soduring COVID, I wrote the book,
(01:47):
executor help how to settle anestate, pick an exec and avoid
family fights, because I didn'twant people to have to go
through what I went through.
Gary Michels (01:54):
Wow. When that happened and you were on that
bench and you decided, I'm goingto make a difference here.
What's your ultimate goal withthat, is it to take an industry
or something that's not there,that people don't know anything
about? Is there a little bit ofknowledge?
David Edey (02:09):
It's to get people to have the conversations. And
that's what I'm about because,you know, it's probably the a
dirty little secret in a lot offamilies. A lot of families will
either avoid, they'llprocrastinate, or they'll be
apathetic and say, Well, I'mgoing to be dead. What
difference will it make? Well,it will make a difference,
because now what you're leavingbehind is disorganization and
(02:31):
chaos in your family. And ifthat's what you you hope to
leave behind, and that's how youwant to be, that's a legacy that
you want to leave behind is forthings that you didn't do, then
you're setting yourself, yourfamily, up for failure, and not
only for the the nextgeneration, but for generations
after that. Through my researchand talking to people, is that I
(02:52):
see that there's three types offamilies. There's a family
that's going to avoid talkingabout it, because if they they
talk about they feel that deathor something bad is going to
happen, or there's a family thatthey're going to do something,
but they're going to have awill, but they're not going
anybody know about it. They'regoing to let the paperwork do
all the talking. So there'sgoing to be surprises, surprises
in terms of, you know, how theestate is going to be. So
(03:13):
surprises that who's going to bethe executor? All of a sudden
they find out that, you know, Ihave a friend that she was asked
to be an executor by her uncle,and didn't know that she was
going to be the executor. Shegot a phone call from a lawyer
one day and say, Well, you're ayou're the executor, and she
knew the family history betweenher cousins, and she said, No, I
(03:34):
don't want to be part of this,part of this mess, so that's
where you laying the paperwork,doing the talking, and don't
have those conversations, andthen there's a family that's
going to be prepared, but you'repreparing the next generation.
You're having openconversations. You realize what
could happen if we don't haveopen conversations.
Gary Michels (03:52):
I love it. Planning to you comes down to
two big ideas, and I love thisthought here, love and order.
Why each of those?
David Edey (04:01):
Because everything that we're going to do is the
biggest, is this, the greatestgift of love that you can give
your family, that you're goingto take the time to, you know,
majority of Americans andCanadians is, you know, it's
about 150 million Americans and15 million Canadians don't have
a will or an estate plan. If youcould just take that first step
(04:22):
to first get a will and thenprepare your executor so that
you don't, you know, leave anymesses or chaos, and then have
the conversations with yourfamily. You're leaving love and
order. You're not leaving themto be, you know, lost,
disorganized, because whenyou're gone, there's going to be
an immense amount of grief, andthey're not going to know where
(04:43):
to go, where to start. And ifyou can just give them a little
bit of a road map and preparethem for if something was to
happen, to be prepared, it'sgoing to make their lives a lot
more easier, because they'regoing to be grieving the loss of
the individual view. So that'swhy I'm trying to make sure
that. People leave a legacy oflove and order.
Gary Michels (05:03):
What to you, David, is the difference between
legacy and estate planning? Isthere a difference between the
two?
David Edey (05:09):
Estate Planning is more the technical thing, the
I'd say the tax planning, theinvestments, making sure things
are in order, making sure you'rehaving the will a legacy where
we're doing legacy planning,everything that I went through,
and when I talk about my journeyof loss, the one thing that's
taught me about will be profoundabout a legacy is that we we're
(05:30):
not going to remember for themoney or the possessions that we
leave, but rather, what we cando is instill in the people that
we love so much, is to haveconversations that we dread, and
have those conversations now. SoI also like to say a legacy
isn't what you leave people, buthow you leave them. So again,
you know, one of the things Ilike to do is I started is write
(05:52):
a legacy letter. Wrote it to myson last Christmas, and now I
just have a new granddaughter. Iwant to write letters, letters
to her. So there's going to besomething. It's not, yes,
there's the material things inthe possessions, but that's not
what we're going to remember.We're going to remember for the
values, our thoughts and thingsthat who we are, so that they
can, we can instill something inthem going forward, and that
(06:14):
will always be in theirmemories, not just, you know, a
collection of stuff or money,because that's going to fade
away. How you leave the legacyof being remembered and the
values that you you want to passon to the next generation,
that's what's important.
Gary Michels (06:32):
So there's a few key areas where you often find
trouble and need to step in. Sowe'd like to address a few of
those now, starting withpreventing conflicts. Can you
share a little bit about theimportance of communication and
some strategies and how to dealwith inheritance and how to do
the whole thing withoutconflict? Is that, is that even
(06:53):
possible?
David Edey (06:54):
No, because I like to say now, if you know, you
know more than 35 years in theindustry, and we've seen
stories, and I've come to theconclusion is that all families
are messy. You know, we mightthink that, Oh, we're a great
family, you know, we tell jokes,and we've got our favorite meals
and that sort of stuff, and welaugh and joke and stuff like
that. All of that doesn't reallymatter. All it takes is a death
(07:18):
in the family to change theprojectory of how the family,
you know, if it's a matriarch ora patriarch, you know, mom and
dad are gone. They were alwaysprobably the guiding light, the
beacon that held the familytogether. They're gone. And the
turmoil, the the jealousy, allof that sort of stuff, starts to
come out. Because you reallydon't know about somebody until
you have to share an inheritancewith them. Believe me, I know
(07:40):
those deep rooted familyproblems are always there, but
they seem to bubble to the top,because when it becomes an
estate, or there's moneyinvolved, so the only way that
you can do that is to have openconversations. So you know what?
I've decided that I've put eventogether my estate. I'm done
some things with my will. I'm,you know, if you whoever your
(08:03):
executors, I have a separateconversation with them and prep
them, but I would also let thefamily know this is what my
wishes are. You may not likethem, but this is what I want
going forward, because I don'twant any family feuds. Even
though you do have thoseconversations, there's always
going to be one covertnarcissist in the family that's
always going to be, you know,who's always been trouble.
There's always one sibling or acousin who's going to speak up
(08:26):
and make things difficult. Andif you identify who those people
are, and you've already hadthose open conversations, when
something does happen, theycan't come back and say, well,
we should be doing this. Weshould be doing there's no
ambiguity of what should begoing on. So it's all about
open, honest conversations. Atleast it's all out and open.
It's not going to be secrecy,secrecy and surprises.
Gary Michels (08:48):
Do you have any suggestions on how a person
brings it up?
David Edey (08:51):
Well the first thing is that you want to have, like,
again, like I say at the holidaytime, that's a lot of times when
people get together. I like tosit down, sit with everybody. I
just a couple of things I liketo bring up. Now a lot of
people, they might, you know, ifyou say I'm going to talk about
my estate plan or will or someof that, they're like, Oh, are
you sick? Are you? Is something?Are you dying? No, you just want
(09:12):
to put them to rest. You want toput their mind at ease. Say, No,
I'm not. But again, there'sstill probably going to be some
people, maybe some of thechildren. So I don't want to
hear this. I don't want to hearI don't know why you're bringing
this up. It doesn't matter. Youhave to sit them down, let them
understand. This is what'simportant. Spoiler alert, we're
all going to die. So why notprepare for the inevitable at
some point and prepare thefamily for, you know, what's
(09:34):
going to happen in life? So Iwould again, start the
situations. You know, I recentlymet with a financial advisor or
a state lawyer, and I'm puttingmy things together because I
want things to be organizedwhile I still have my faculties
about me. And you know, youmight explain decisions why
you're doing them again. Peoplemay not like it, but it doesn't
matter. It's your state. There'sno law that you have to leave
(09:56):
somebody a certain percentage orthey're entitled to any. Because
that's the problem wherebeneficiaries start to have that
feeling of entitlement, thatthey're entitled to something
equal doesn't always mean fairin some people's eyes. So you
want to try and quash those,those feelings, those thoughts,
because people are going toconjure up in their mind what's
(10:17):
in what they're entitled to ifyou're no longer here. So be
open and have those openconversations and let people
know where you stand.
Gary Michels (10:24):
Do you recommend those conversations are made
without lawyers there orlawyers?
David Edey (10:29):
If you want to bring that third party in and say, you
know, let's have a familymeeting. That's done a lot, a
lot of high net worthindividuals do have consistent
family meetings. You know? Maybethey do it on vacations, they
have a retreat or something, andthey're teaching the generation
what's coming next. It's justpassed on from generation to
generation. So, you know, youyou might have a family meeting,
(10:52):
you might have a lawyer or afinancial advisor explain the
estate plan. But again, you needto be present for it, so that
you can have those, you know,answer any questions and be open
to listen to people'sviewpoints, but at the end of
the day, you have to have a planin terms of what you want to
accomplish in that familymeeting.
Gary Michels (11:10):
So today people digital legacies are now much
more of a thing. Can we discussstrategies of handling digital
assets and ensuring theirmanaged according to people's
wishes?
David Edey (11:21):
Yeah. Well, that's an important part of estate
planning. And legacy planning isdigital estate your digital
estate assets. A lot of peopledon't really think about it, but
you know, for every one emailaddress, there's at least 160
email addresses related to thatemail address. So you've got
YouTube, your social media, yourNetflix, Amazon, all of those
(11:45):
things. And people don't takeany consideration that that's
important, that there's a somesort of record of where it's
going to be all kept, you know,to apprise your your your
executor or some family member,because each social media
company has its own protocol toshut things down. So like for
Facebook, there's memorializingor you might shut down the
(12:06):
account altogether. So each areayou need to be concerned about.
So digital estate, your digitalassets, are very important. And
when I say digital assets, it'sanything you've ever created or
done online that's out there.And we spend so much time on the
internet and online that we needto be cognizant of it, because
if we're not, it also lendsitself to for frauds and scams
(12:30):
going forward.
Gary Michels (12:31):
Let's talk about the executor a little bit, the
person who makes sure yourwishes are fulfilled. What are
some tips and insights on how tochoose and prepare the right
executor, or maybe some commonmisconceptions around what
exactly an executor can and cando. And how do you deal with all
that?
David Edey (12:50):
Well, first off, let me say it's the worst job that
you could ask somebody to do foryou, because nobody wants to be
an executor. But on the otherhand, you have to take in
consideration, if you're thetestator, someone's you know,
the person who's writing thewill, is that you realize that
this is also a big favor, a bigask you're asking of somebody.
Now, when people are asked to beexecutors, 99% of the time, they
(13:12):
have no idea what's involvedwith the job, and they're taking
the job because they feel it's asense of duty. They're honored
by it, but they don't realizethat they're looking at anywhere
from 100 hours or 18 to 24months to settle out of state.
And a lot of the times, they'regoing to have to do that during
working hours. And not only dothey have to, you know, deal
with the tax department andlawyers, they also have to deal
(13:35):
with ungrateful beneficiaries.So and you've got that family
drama in there because of thework that's involved. For an
executor, the beneficiary is notinterested in that. They're only
interested in their check. Whenam I going to get paid? And you
know you've got as an executor,you have to make sure that go
through probate the taxes aregoing to be paid because you as
(13:55):
the executor, you're beinglegally held liable for the
estate, because you're theyou're seen as the
administrator, but thebeneficiary doesn't see that. So
one of the tips and strategies,I would say, is, first, if
you're going to take on the jobas an executor, you have to ask
the testator, how are you goingto prepare me for this job? You
know, who is the lawyer, who isyour financial advisor, who's
(14:17):
your accountant? Have you gotthat in place? So if something
was to happen, I know where tocontact them, where's the will
going to be kept? Where are yourdigital assets going to be kept?
And then also the beneficiaries.As the executor, I would say,
keep them informed, so that yousend them off, maybe an email,
or have a zoom call every twoweeks or so and say, hey, just
(14:39):
to keep you abreast of what'sgoing on. You know what's going
on in the estate? Because onceyou are there's radio silence
from the executor. Beneficiariesstart to think that you're up to
something, you're stealing,you're doing something. And it
doesn't take much running for abeneficiary to want to haul you
into court, which means takesyou away from your not only your
work, but also takes time. Awayfrom settling, helping to settle
(15:02):
the estate, which also thatmoney is going to have to come
from somewhere. Where's thatgoing to come from the estate?
What about the person who has noidea who you know works in, in a
different industry altogether,who knows not, who's not good
with finances, or, you know,legal or who to talk to, you
know? And that's a majority ofus, most people, they don't take
the time to think about, okay,what? How can I prepare my
(15:23):
executor? How can I make iteasier on them? You know, have a
list of, you know, the executor,the insurance agent. There's so
many people that are going tocome involved. You got to deal
with a real estate agent. In mybook, I say there's probably
your baseline of a team that youneed is the lawyer, the
accountant and the financialadvisor, but there's probably
(15:43):
going to be maybe even 16 moreprofessionals that you're gonna
have to deal with. You're gonnahave to deal with someone. Maybe
it's gonna have to, you know, doan estate sale. You're gonna
have to do, we deal with a realestate agent there. You know,
there's so many people thatyou're gonna have to deal with,
and they're all you'reresponsible for, orchestrating
all this. Now you're over hereon the left hand side,
orchestrating everything, andyou've got the benefit for She's
(16:05):
over here on the right handside. All they're interested in
is, when am I getting my money?But you've got all this other
these other balls that you haveto be juggling, like you're in
Cirque du Soleil. So you need tofigure out, how am I going to
get what I've got to get done?But also, how do I keep them
abreast of what's going on soyou can get through it with, you
know, some sort of semblance ofpeace of mind that you at least
(16:27):
can go to sleep at night.
Gary Michels (16:29):
So being that we're a national insurance
agency with hundreds of Agentsaround the country, we deal
every day with people makingthat decision on buying a term
policy or an index UniversalLife or or a final expense
policy to cover some of theseexpenses, and you're right there
in the thick of it. Why is itimportant and critical that
(16:49):
people have these things inplace? How does a person go
about looking for insurance andfinding the right insurance for
them, in your opinion?
David Edey (16:57):
It would come down to the individual that you're
dealing with, and what kind ofreport do are they taking the
time to understand your needs,taking a look at your situation
from 40,000 feet up, and lookingdown, seeing the the problems 10
steps ahead of you that youdon't even think about with the
right insurance in place, that'sgoing to also that's Another
(17:20):
part of that gift of love thatyou are making sure that your
family is going to be taken careof. So, you know, you want to
talk to an agent that's going totake the time to truly
understand what your needs are,but also ask you questions that
you hadn't, don't even thinkabout related to your personal
situation. I mean, you can,anybody can go buy insurance off
(17:40):
the street, and you know that'sthat's off the rack. But if you
have a true professional that'sgoing to take the time to
understand your needs and whatmakes sense for your family, so
you don't leave themdisorganized in chaos, then you
need to have a made to measure,plan, to make sure that the
dollars are being spentproperly, that you again,
prepare your family for thefuture. So you leave a legacy,
(18:02):
and not a legacy and a mess.
Gary Michels (18:04):
Absolutely, I've seen too many people call me and
say they didn't want to puttheir children through the mess
that their sister put their kidsthrough, or their husband put
them through. And it'sinteresting to me, because it
surprises me, and I'm not surewhat the numbers are in Canada,
but in in America, over 100million people don't have any
life insurance that are eligiblefor it, and another 100 million
(18:26):
don't have enough. It blows mymind, because that is part of
the leaving a legacy, part ofthe estate planning. It's part
of of everything. And if you doit right these days, so if you,
especially if you do it whileyou're still healthy. That I
wanted to talk about that alittle bit. There's so many
programs out there, especiallyin the index universal life, in
the annuity space, that are norisk, only have an upside with
(18:50):
living benefits. I think peoplelook at life insurance and they
don't pay as much attention toit as they should, but it is
such a big part of that wholeplanning.
David Edey (19:00):
Absolutely. But you see it comes back to, I mean,
the numbers, I don't know thenumbers in Canada, but it'll be
the same thing what you saidthere in the US, that either
they don't have life insuranceor they don't have enough it
comes back to they don't have awill, or they haven't properly
addressed the problem of estateplanning and a will. And it
comes back down to what I hadsaid before, people want to
(19:22):
avoid they're going toprocrastinate. Oh, I've got
plenty of time, but you don'tknow what's going to happen in
life. So why wait? Why take forchance in terms of your life
insurance coverage and makingsure that your estate plan and
your estate is in order, youraffairs are in order? Or there's
the people that do have theconversations with you, and you
(19:43):
know your agents is that I needto make sure that if something
was to happen, I'm going to makesure that my family isn't left
disorganizing chaos. It's achoice. It's a choice that
people have to make. Again,spoiler alert, we're all going
to die. So how do you want to beremembered? You You want to just
leave a legacy, or you want toleave a mess?
Gary Michels (20:03):
Yeah, I'm loving hearing what you're saying,
David, that's all aboutaccountability and
responsibility for your life.
David Edey (20:09):
That's the love and order that I'm talking about. I
should also mention one thing,for a lot of people, they see
the messes that people have, youknow, in other families, and
there's damaging family fightsbecause of it. And a lot of
people are also opting forhaving banks or trust companies
or as corporate trustees. Sothey bring in a third person to
(20:31):
be the executive, and they takethe burden away from the family.
That's also becoming verypopular. But you also, I would
add, if you do go that route,it's going to be a little bit
more costly. But you have tomake the decisions in terms of,
don't think about the cost it.Think about what is, what is the
return on investment in terms ofmy family going forward? What's
(20:52):
the return on investment if Ichoose somebody to spend those
100 hours to be my executor? Soeither way, do something, you
have to make a decision whatyou're going to do.
Gary Michels (21:02):
Do you have any success stories that are on the
tip of your tongue? You youputting this plan in place? And
my god, I'm so the story touchesmy heart. Is there anything on
in your mind right now that youcan think of?
David Edey (21:12):
A friend of mine when I was we're going through
their estate plan and gettingthings organized. She started to
tell me about when her her dadpassed away. She was nine years
old. He passed away without awill, so her mother was already
gone. Her dad passed awaywithout a will, and he was still
going through his dad, so whichwould be his her grandfather, he
(21:35):
had no will. So we had twogenerations of no wills, and the
father was still startingthrough his father's estate.
Then he passes away, but thepoint she remembers and why she
was doing what she was doing toget her estate plan in order for
her and her family, becauseshe's a successful business
owner, she remembers in thefuneral home parking lot her
(21:56):
brother. She remembers her aunttaking her and another and
taking her brother, becausethere was no estate plan in
place. There was no what's goingto happen to the kids. And she
remembers, even though she'sbecome successful, and it stayed
with her, she remembers, overthe years, having to her her
aunt, having to petition thecourt to get you know, because
(22:17):
the court takes over in terms ofthe dispensing of money to the
to the kids, so her mom, heraunt, would always have to go to
court to get extras for her, forher school and everything like
that. And that stayed with her,and that's why she didn't want
to have that problem for herkids going forward. And so, you
know, put together an estateplan so that she's organized as
(22:38):
a business owner. She's also gota succession plan in place, and
she's organized, and that's,that's one of them that it
sticks out to me in terms of,she remembers distinctly being
separated from her brother at inthe parking lot her funeral of
her father.
Gary Michels (22:54):
that's just, that's a great story. So what
does word legacy mean to you in general?
David Edey (22:58):
Again, I said it before. It's not about money or
possessions. It's about havingthe tough conversations, the
ones that we dread, with thepeople that we love, and having
those conversations now don'twait. Think about what kind of
legacy that you want to leave behind.
Gary Michels (23:13):
What legacy Do you want to leave through your work
and business you serve, asopposed to a legacy you just
want to leave as a human being?
David Edey (23:21):
As a work, it's just to get more people to have the
conversation. I was on the phonethis morning with a client at 78
years old, and I keep talking tohim, and he had a copy of my
book. I had this conversationabout two hours ago, and I said,
I said, George. I said, whereare we at with the will? He
says, I don't have one. I said,we had he goes. I know we
brought up you brought up theconversation. So we I set goals
(23:43):
for him. I says, I'm going tofollow up with you and I'm going
to make the appointment for youwith the notary so that you get
this stuff in place. I said, youhave no will. You've got sizable
assets. And I said, What wouldhappen to you? Forget the dying
part supposed to becomeincapacitated. You can't speak
for yourself. What's going tohappen? Dead silence on the
phone. So it's my missionthrough, you know, having
(24:05):
conversations with you andpeople like you is that people
realize that they need to dosomething. Don't keep thinking,
Oh, I've got, I've got anotherfive years, or I don't need to
think about that. You know, Idon't need the life insurance. I
don't need all those things Ineed. You need to take
accountability and do things nowI hear people saying, you know,
once we get go through theexercise and they've got things
(24:27):
in place, they feel a burden offof their shoulders. They feel better.
Gary Michels (24:31):
You do, you do. Now you've got a podcast of your
own as well. Tell us about wherepeople can have a listen.
David Edey (24:38):
It's called Executor Help, and I just have
conversations like we're havinghere. It's all stories about
life, Death and legacy. I've hadsome amazing conversations, and
it's amazing since I launchedthe podcast the week the book
came out in 2021 I met someinteresting people. They all
have the same sort of thoughtthat we need to be organized. We
(24:59):
need to. Have conversations. Youknow, I've had widows talking
about the grief of losing theirparents. I had hospice nurse
talk about what it's like, youknow, when they're there with
with families and people at theend. And I also have people
talking about life, what makesliving to 100 what's that,
what's that could be like, andwhat you need to do. So again,
(25:21):
it's all stories about life,Death and legacy.
Gary Michels (25:24):
That's awesome. If someone wants to get in touch
with you to hear more about whatyou do and your services. How
can they reach you?
David Edey (25:31):
Just go to Davidedey.com I've got on there.
There's plenty of stuff. You cantake the legacy readiness quiz.
See where you where you stand.You can get a chapter of a
chapter on my book, so you canget it digitally, or for your
listening pleasure, you can haveme read the book to you the
first chapter. And I've also gotthe 50 questions that executors
(25:53):
need answered plenty of there'svideos on there. There's a free
checklist of resources of whatyou need to be an executor, or
if you're a testator, you wantto put that checklist in with
your will so the executor knowsexactly what needs to be done.
There's a version for the USlisteners, and there's a version
(26:13):
for Canadian listeners.
Gary Michels (26:15):
And if you're looking David up, it's David
Edey, E, D, E, y.com, and Ithank you so much for joining
our podcast.
David Edey (26:24):
Thank you.
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