September 18, 2025 • 47 mins
We’re bringing back this heartfelt and practical conversation with Paul Carrick Brunson, full of timeless wisdom on what it really takes to build meaningful relationships.
Robin is joined by Paul Brunson, globally recognized matchmaker, author, and Head of Global Research at Tinder, to explore what makes love last in today’s complex dating landscape. Drawing from his book It’s Complicated (But It Doesn’t Have to Be), Paul shares four key principles for finding a compatible partner, how to clarify your values, and why personal growth is essential for healthy connection.
Whether you’re navigating new relationships or looking to strengthen an existing one, this conversation offers thoughtful, actionable insight to support your journey.
We want to hear from you! Please send us your anonymous questions for the Podcast as well as our weekly IG Live Ask The Experts Q&A. https://realloveready.com/submitaquestion
Links:
Website: https://www.paulcbrunson.com/
It's Complicated (But It Doesn't Have To Be): https://www.amazon.ca/Its-Complicated-But-Doesnt-Have/dp/1592407692
FOLLOW RLR: INSTAGRAM | FACEBOOK | X
Watch the podcast on YouTube: youtube.com/realloveready
Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to Let's Talk Love, the podcast that brings you real
talk, fresh ideas, and expert insights every week.
Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and
relationships, and they're here for you with tools, information,
and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love,
relate, and communicate. We tackle the big questions, not
(00:25):
shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the
joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharne.
Now let's talk love. Welcome, everyone, to this
episode of Let's Talk LOVE. I'm so happy to have our guest,
(00:46):
Paul Branson and Paul. See Paul, you have a you have a
three, three name. You have three names in your
name, Paul Carrick Branson. So is this 2 last names?
Is this your middle name? Where is Carrick from?
Is that Tony? Is that that is your middle name
that. That that is my middle name is
There's a long story. Yeah, there's a long story for
(01:06):
the middle name, but yes, but. I like, I really like the fact
that you have your middle name in your name because I mean, I
could say Robin Helen Ducharme, but I don't, I say Robin
Ducharme. Maybe I should say Robin Helen
Ducharme. It would honor my grandma who
I'm named after. Anyways, that's a that's a good
one. I like it.
Exactly. Exactly.
So Paul, I, we're, I'm so happy to have you on the show today.
(01:27):
I really have been following youfor since 2012 and I love your
work and I just think you're just such a genuine, A genuine
person with, with great integrity from what I from what
I know about you and you're justso incredibly smart and also
just so relatable. So I'm so excited for this
conversation. That's the best, that's the best
way. Well, I will take it.
(01:50):
I can can I say I'm I'm I'm honored by the by the 2012.
That's interesting. That's that's over 10 years ago.
So that that's some time I'll. Tell you more about it in our
conversation. OK.
So, so Paul, you today we're going to be talking obviously
about love and relationships andabout your book, which I so
(02:10):
enjoyed. And I learned, I mean, every
time I read a relationship book,I learn.
I learned so much and I learned a lot from your book.
And I am a former matchmaker andlove coach.
And so you know a lot of things you were talking about in your
book. I, I know, and I resonate with,
but obviously there's always something new to learn.
(02:30):
And when I was researching you and I, I know that, you know,
your former life, you worked as an investment banker, right?
Is that true? And then you switched, you
switched careers. You did, you did A18360,
whatever you call it, and went into the love business.
And I really like the story of how in the process of, you know,
(02:51):
switching careers and if I'm wrong, you please correct me.
But you and your wife Jill hosted singles dinners like you
would invite your friends that were single together and play
games and interact and, and, andmatchmake in a way.
So can you just tell us a littlebit about that and how, how you
got into becoming entering the love business?
And it was kind of almost like anatural it, it felt, it seemed
(03:13):
to me like from learning about you that seemed quite, quite
natural transition. It was, it, it, it felt that
well, in hindsight, it definitely was.
And it was, it was, you know, I,I believe that we're always, you
know, in the place that we're meant to be.
And even though that place they feel uncomfortable, we have to
stop, take a moment, take a breath and understand why are we
(03:33):
there. And, and the key way to do that
is to think about the lesson, right?
What are you learning in the moment?
And was interesting for me is that, as you mentioned, Robin is
I was my first part of my careerwas in finance and I hated it.
I would think to myself, why am I here?
What's the point of all of this?But it led me to understand
(03:55):
humanity and why we do the things that we do.
And it actually gave me skills. And those skills allowed me to
start a summer camp program or, or a program, a tutoring
program. And then it was through that
tutoring program that allowed meto become a matchmaker, right?
And so you could see that I, I would not have become a
(04:17):
matchmaker if it wasn't for the summer camp, if it wasn't for
the tutoring, if it wasn't for, for, for the finance career.
But, but specifically to your question I had.
So this is the summer of Oh my gosh, what is it?
This is 2008. Two.
No, no, 2005. This is the summer of 2005,
(04:38):
roughly. My wife and I had a summer camp
where it was a tutoring program,but we and we had it up and down
the East Coast of the United States, but in particular, this
one was running in Washington, DC.
It was focused on children who were coming from low income
households and, you know, neededhelp with math and science and,
and, and English. And in the camp when you
(05:01):
registered, we would ask you a series of questions.
One question that turned out to be the, you know, the $1,000,000
question was, well, how many parents live in your household,
Robin? Right.
And what you would see is that you'd see these child after
child after child would say, well, I only have, you know, one
parent or I only live with grandma or I only live with
(05:21):
auntie. And so there was a succession of
I don't live with both of my parents and there was very
little male representation in the household.
Yes. And and I thought that was that
was really interesting. And so I would talk about that
often at the camp and the other and the counselors at the camp
would say, well, Paul, why don'tyou just become hitch?
(05:43):
You could just be Hitch and hookup all the moms.
And dads, right? Oh, I love that.
Yeah. Yeah.
And that would be it. And so that was seated the idea
for my wife and I to start hosting these parties that we
call the Brown Sugar Party now. Now, Robin, I have to ask you,
do you know why? What do you know why we call it
the Brown Sugar Party? And these were parties at our
(06:04):
house where we would invite singles over.
Do you have any guess, Any guess?
The Brown. Sugar Party.
Well, the guess would be that you're inviting people, black
people to your parties. Are you?
Is it, does it does it have to do with your heritage being like
you're Jamaican And I know in inDC there's a lot of
representation. So is that Is that something?
(06:25):
So This is why I asked, because this is this is the answer that
everyone gives me. But that wasn't it.
It was because we were drinking alcohol.
It had, it was brown sugar. It was like like brown Hennessy.
Yeah, yeah. Rob.
Yeah. OK.
Any, any kind of brown sugar alcohol because.
And that's, that's what went along with the with the party.
(06:46):
But it's interesting because whenever I say brown sugar,
everyone says it was a black thing.
And I was like, no, it was just everything.
Oh, I know why. So yes, so we, we, we were
drinking because a lot of it hadto do with questions and
answers. And if you didn't get the quest
or answer right, you had to, youknow you, you had to.
Drink to drink. But it did drink.
It was a drinking game party too.
(07:07):
It was a drinking game party. It was, it was a good, good, But
the point though, of the party was to allow for an environment
for people to interact and meet outside of a club or outside of
work. Because, you know, circa 2005,
2006, the top way that we were meeting significant others
wasn't yet online. It was through work.
(07:30):
The church was still up there, friends and family was, was, was
still up there. Restaurants, clubs, bars, you
know, we're still up there. But people were clamoring for
new ways to connect. And that was an environment that
we thought where it was a bit prearranged because we only
invited, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was all, it was
heterosexual. So it was 7 men, seven women.
(07:51):
But we invited you. So there was a little bit of
strategy, you know, to. Yes, I really, I just so love
that. That's what happened.
That's how it started. Well, and you were, it's such a
gift that you and your wife weregiving the community and, and
giving that and actually I'm giving that opportunity to meet
other singles and you were setting it up.
(08:12):
I mean, I just think it's a beautiful thing.
Yeah, it was. It was.
So it was definitely. Yeah, it sounds like it.
I would I would love to be in the brown sugar party.
That sounds great. So today I really want to dive
into your book. And also there's community
questions that we that we are always asked of our experts.
And so I wanted to integrate those as well.
(08:34):
Your book, really your book is called it's complicated, but it
doesn't have to be a modern day guide to finding a keeping love.
And it really the finding is thebig is a big piece that keeping
is a big piece. So you know that is you know,
we'll go through. I think, you know, really you
talk about the tenants of what it really is to attract, to
(08:58):
bring in somebody that is a goodmatch for you.
And it's not just about your type, type hype and all that
stuff we're going to go through.But then really it's like once
you meet that person, is it OK? Is this for real?
Do you really want to get into amarriage or a long term
partnership? Are you ready for that and what
it entails? And then how do you keep that
going so. So what's?
So one of the first community questions, yeah, one of the
(09:20):
first community questions is what do you see as the biggest
challenges singles face in the dating world today, and how
would you suggest people approach them?
That's a big question. Yeah, that's a big and that's a
popular question. So I think one thing that we
have to understand, and this is around the world.
So I primarily work in the UK, in the US and all throughout the
Caribbean. And so I'm seeing lots of
(09:42):
different cultures. And what's interesting is within
every, within each one of those nations, within all the cultures
within those nations, you have people talk about how hard it
is, how challenging it is to meet a significant other in this
day and age, right? There's all these reasons,
right? There's so many reasons.
(10:04):
So, so the list of reasons are, are, are numerous, but one of
the bigger reasons that I believe we have such an issue
today is this whole paradox of choice.
And, and Barry Swartz wrote a book a long, long time ago
around this, around the paradox of choice.
And he's the one who phrased the, the term less is more, or
(10:25):
you could say more is less, right.
And this whole notion of analysis paralysis.
So whenever we're presented withmany different perceived options
and I want to under score perceived, whenever we're
presented with many perceived options, we take less
satisfaction in the choice or inthe option that we actually
(10:48):
choose. So you think about a number one
source of meeting a significant other today is online, right?
Without question, it's online. A matter of fact, there's some
studies that suggest that up to 80% of new spouses are the
derivative is online, right? There's a lot of Prince Harry,
Meghan Markle commentary right now.
And we, I think one of the biggest epiphanies lately about
(11:09):
them was, Oh my God, they've met.
They've technically met on Instagram, you know.
Yeah, yeah. Like back in the day, it used to
be like one and three, right, Which which actually was a large
number. I remember that when I was when
I was matchmaking 2014, 2015, itwas like, right.
It was like 33%. Now if you're saying 80I, I'm
not surprised, but wow. Right.
(11:30):
And and by the way, that 80% number is just going higher and
higher. Oh yes, and higher, yes.
So, but here's the issue as it connects to, to, to Swartz is
that we have perceived options. So many of us think we can get
onto our mobile device and just keep swiping and swiping and
swiping, endless choice. And therefore, when we do end up
(11:54):
making a choice, we have so little satisfaction, so little
value in that choice that right now, some of the crazy, some of
the, I wouldn't even say crazy. The startling, startling studies
that I've seen suggest that one out of every two people who are
on a date that goes wrong, right?
So you, you think that the date isn't going to last or, you
(12:16):
know, you want to get out of thedate, they have already jumped
back on line on a dating app before they reach home.
So they're already in that swipe, already in the same in
the same period. So so the whole point is that we
have less satisfaction the choices that we're making.
This, I think is driving a lot of the issues, not all, but a
(12:41):
lot of the issues when it comes to us being able to do not
connect. And so the answer to that, the
antidote to that is that you want to understand a you don't
have endless choice. Just because there is 50 million
people on Tinder doesn't mean that you have, you know, 50
million options because because they're not all out there for
(13:02):
you. So that's is the is the
intellectually understand you don't have endless choice.
Secondly, is to put more energy into the choices that you're
actually making. And that energy is not only in
the, in the choice selection, but also how you show up, why
you show up, the evaluation of the person when you show up,
(13:24):
which hopefully we'll get into because I think that's also a,
it feels like a, the evaluation how to choose a partner wisely
is so is such a mystery to people.
But these are some of the antidotes.
But the reason because your question was, is why I think
that it's a lot of it has to do with the analysis paralysis,
right? We think that there's endless
choice out here. Yeah, I, I fully agree with you,
(13:48):
Paul. So one of the, you know, I, I
think this quote from your book is a, a great start to the, the
getting into the deep of what makes a good match because
people are going to be like, OK,I mean, I'm sure you get this
question all the time as a matchmaker.
OK, well then, OK, how is this going to work?
Right. And you say, I found in my
practice that if you can confirmthat a partner shares your top
(14:11):
values, has a personality that meshes with your own, which is
what I really want, I want to talk a lot about because people
don't people miss that one and meet meets your non starters and
there is a healthy level of romantic attraction.
OK. We want, it's not always about
just all the romantic attraction, which I think people
are way too focused on. Your chance of making a
(14:31):
successful match goes from virtually nothing from about
.04% to nearly 50% chance. So 50% chance.
OK, OK, Paul, do you want to expand on that quote before we
go into really talking about thenon starters and personality
types and what do you want to say about that?
I think those that really sums it up though, don't you think?
No, no, absolutely. And and that is a great dovetail
(14:53):
off of that, that last topic that we were talking about,
because I think a big challenge that so many of us have is then
when we're out on these dates and we're really trying to, you
know, even like you asked, like what is a date?
You know, to, to me, it's about exploring if there is romantic
interest or if you're already ina relationship to expand or to
(15:14):
sustain that romantic interest, right.
That's, that's to me, what, what, what a date is.
But, but unfortunately, when a lot of people go on dates and
they don't yet have that partner, they don't know how to
determine if that person is the right partner, especially when
most dates kind of start with people just binge drinking and
(15:35):
then continuing to drink into the day.
So it's like, how do you assess?And so that quote that you just
pulled from the book is, I thinka baseline.
It's like, OK, let's identify what are your values.
Let's see if there's a compliment in personality.
Let's see if there's any non starters.
So these are things that directly impact your health or
happiness. Do do you have any non starters?
(15:57):
Because if you do, it's going todirectly impact my health or
happiness. Let's make sure that there's
mutual attraction here, minimal level of mutual attraction.
If you have all of those things,you start from a place of
strength opposed to a place of weakness.
Yes, and I imagine in your practice, what you're seeing
with clients, which I was day in, day out is people come in
(16:18):
and I say, OK, and you know, andmaybe it was my own trap I was
falling into was like, what are you looking for to mate?
Right. That was my one of my first
questions, of course. And it would inevitably turn
into this is my type, this is mylist.
And I'm making, I've got my piece of paper, my pad of paper
and my pen and I'm writing down the list of this.
(16:39):
I'd like you like we talked about it online dating.
It's like this is this this wishthat you're putting on the
universe for this perfect personthat looks like this, that acts
like this, that right? And it's all, you know, for
women. He, you know, of course he has
to be over 6 feet. He has to be tall, he has to be
successful, he has to be handsome, he has to be well
groomed. And like you, you have this, you
(17:00):
have this list in your book too.And the funny, funny thing is
there's like these oxymorons that are obviously present,
right? Like, yes, it you say he has to
take charge, lead and direct until she disagrees with his
direction and a man who will paythe bills, but she but she has
to be an independent woman, right?
It says, what are you talking about?
And then the men are like, OK, she's hot, she's attractive,
(17:22):
She's skinny, she's slim, but maybe she's got a little bit of
a booty, whatever. But she's soft and gentle,
nurturing. But she's also has her stuff
together and she's independent, but she also has to be a good
mom. And she's like drama free.
But it's just like all of these things, like, what do you?
And then you say, like, at the end of the day, are you asking
for a computer program? Like, is it a bot?
What's the word you use bot or whatever?
I can't. Yeah.
(17:44):
But this is the problem with thetype.
But this is so this is really where people are AT though.
And when they're going online, they've got their type.
When they're when they're putting it out there, it's so
superficially focused. So we really have to steer away
from that. We do.
And I guess we also have to understand that, you know, we
(18:05):
get the type subconsciously, thetype comes to us.
Yes, absolutely. True.
The, it's based on the content that we've consumed across our
life. So the type begins in that whole
attachment theory with attachment theory.
So in that attachment phase, So when we are literally, you know,
from zero to age 4, roughly whenwe're forming that first love
(18:29):
with the caregiver, that's that's where our type begins.
Whoever that first person is that we felt safe with who
nurtured us, that becomes the ideal person because here this
is this is exactly the person who is supporting us.
And then from there it grows, right when I say it grows is the
(18:49):
type evolves. So it's about where do we live?
Who were socialized around, right, The clubs and activities
that we're in, the television shows that we're watching, right
as we get older, organizations that we're a part of,
organizations that we're not a part of, right.
All of these things, all of the content that we consume.
And right now, a lot of it is, is, is TikTok and Instagram and
(19:10):
what we perceive as the ideal. So the ideals of all of these
types become what we see as our go to.
And so we have to understand, wejust have to accept this.
This is why a huge part of relationships with other people
begins with the relationship we have with our self.
(19:33):
And you can't have a relationship with yourself
without understanding of yourself and why it is that you
think the way that you do. What drives that thought, right?
To actually do that exploration helps you tremendously because
then you can understand how to manage and change if necessary.
(19:53):
So I'm totally with you on the type.
The types tend not to be successful.
They tend to be. They tend to be.
Fences almost, because if someone doesn't fit that type,
we end up pushing them away, whereas they could actually be a
terrific match for us. And so if we understand this,
that types are not good, which they're not right, types are not
(20:15):
good, then what we need to do isunderstand why it is that we
create these types, and it's because of the content that we
consume. So therefore, how do we change
it consume different content? Really love that I you, you made
a, an Instagram post on this a while back and it was something
around. It's so important what we daily
consume. What books are you reading?
(20:37):
What shows are you watching? Who are you interacting with?
Like, I mean, it's just if it's all like, you know, you're
watching horror movies you're watching like the you know, I
don't, I don't know you're reading.
I do I do I do read the Daily News on my on my apps everyday
just to see what's going on in the world.
But I have to take that with a grain of salt too.
But I know I know exactly what you're saying right now.
And I think, you know, going back to how our attachments are
(20:59):
formed and where our type is formed.
I mean, it, it's so much of thisis all of that.
I suppose. Like, first, it's like little
girls and boys like watching cartoons.
It's like the fairy tales. And it's like, I mean, I grew up
like we all grew up on that. A lot of us did from a very
young age until I stopped watching cartoons.
But all of it's the same message.
The woman, the girl gets saved. It's like my Prince Charming.
(21:19):
And it's like everything has to do with finding that Prince and
happily ever after. It's like there's no set.
It's not. That's not the way it goes.
Yeah, Robin, I mean, that's that's a brilliant, brilliant
point because because even the print who is the Prince, the
Prince is always like describe the Prince.
He's tall, dark, handsome and and and actually, I mean, even
to get into the to to to the racial element is like, you
(21:41):
know, the Prince is technically not dark.
He is tan features, but he's never a black Prince.
Yes. So it's like you have all of
these types that you're right asa child we're seeing and we buy
into subconsciously. So how do you work with clients
to, because you, you know, it's talking about getting to know
(22:02):
yourself first. How do you work with clients to
get to know their top values just quickly?
Like do you, do you point them to a website?
Do you? Because I just think I, I
thought about this because I'm like, I know I've done a lot of
exercises like this in my life. And if I was to say my top
values, you mean off the bat, I'd know, you know, my family,
my friends, my spirituality. It's funny.
(22:24):
But even this year, I think yourvalues can change.
Or maybe you just identify them differently.
But like this year, because we've gone through a lot of
hardship on our family, I'm likejoy.
I cannot live without joy. It is a must.
It is like I need that in my life.
It is a value that I hold so dear.
And I didn't realize it until I was without it.
I'm like, you know, So how do you help people nail down their
(22:46):
values before they are looking for that match and a partner?
Yeah. You know, it, it's, it is, it
could it, it can be tricky because to your point is values
evolve and they, I, I, I even think they, they mutate in a way
because, you know, joy is probably always been a value,
but it's almost shape shifted, you know, across, across your
(23:08):
life. But one of the quickest ways,
one of the best exercises, is tosit down and to identify where
do you spend your extra money and your extra time.
Now, a lot of us don't have extra money or extra time, but
I'm talking about, say you don'twork on Sunday, right?
(23:32):
So what are you doing? You didn't work.
Exactly what are you doing with that time?
Now clearly you could have worked all week.
So you sleep in, right? It doesn't mean that you're
valuing sleep, although we all should value sleep.
But what I'm saying is, is that then when you wake up and you
have that extra time, you have some time on your hand, you have
a free afternoon. What do you do with it, right?
(23:53):
And if you look and then where you spending your money, right?
When you have a little bit extrato spend, what, where you
spending it? If you look across the last
several months at that extra time and that extra money, that
is probably going to be precisely what you value.
And the reason why this is to some people a shocking exercise
(24:16):
is because we begin to see that we may value certain things that
we don't profess to value, if you know what I mean, right,
that we don't profess the value.So what I found a lot of the
time with with matchmaking is that if I were to ask, what do
you value right out the gate, people would say religion, you
(24:36):
know, it's all about religion isthis is this is this.
And then when you begin to unpack their last several months
or year, you realize, hold on for a second, do you truly, is
this really what you value? And so because you're not
spending any time or money towards it, so you want to look
at those things. And that same exercise that you
apply to yourself is how you evaluate someone else's values.
(25:00):
Because you could ask someone until they're blue in the face
what do you value and they will always give you what they either
want you to think they value or altruistically.
What they think they should value what they think.
Exactly, exactly. Is it because they're out here
trying to get trying to get thatthat job?
Yes, as your. Woman or your?
Man, you know, but instead, that's why the evaluation period
(25:25):
in dating is so important. And so by the time you're on
that 3rd, 4th, 5th date, you should understand it where
you're on the call. What have they been spending
their time on? What have they been spending
their money on? You know, they say they value
family, but they never call their parents.
They never want to see their parents.
They like they're estranged fromtheir from their family.
So how is it that they truly value family?
(25:47):
You know, my gosh, I. Really like this?
Yeah, this is really good exercise.
Fantastic. And this goes to I think what's
really also very important whichyou which you mentioned a few
times is, you know, the 4th, 5thdate.
It's like give somebody, OK, first date if it's a complete
disaster and you're like, this person is absolutely clearly not
a match. I do not want to see that person
(26:08):
ever again. Forget it, right?
However, like like Rachel, like Rachel Greenwald, who we both
know and have learned under she,she always said like you give
people three dates minimum, likejust let's just start there and
then we'll go up from or not. But, and I really agree with
that because it's like the firstdate is just like you, you
posted something about this. It's like you're interviewing or
(26:30):
it's like a facade. You're meeting somebody that is
probably not showing up as themselves fully.
Yeah, they're representative. They're.
Representative Right. And by the second date, OK,
maybe a little bit warmed up by the 3rd.
So I, I just think you have to give somebody time and you're
not going to see their value show up or get to know that
about them without giving them those like more than three, four
(26:54):
dates, five dates, wouldn't you say you so?
So, so to that point, this, thistouches upon what we were
talking about earlier as far as when you said that, that first
question was, well, how do we like there's, it's so hard to
find a partner in, in this day and age.
And my thought was, OK, to counteract analysis paralysis,
you have to put more effort intothe selection.
(27:17):
Part of that is this idea of, and Rachel's idea of, OK, I'm
going to see this person three times.
That's a totally different mindset that you have to go into
that first date with. Then if I'm going to see this
person maybe for just 30 seconds, then I'm going to walk
out, right? The latter, but they become more
(27:40):
disposable. The former is, is hold on, if
I'm going to go on three dates with this person, I am going to
do a lot more analysis upfront. But also I'm going to now have
enough time to give my questionstime to breathe.
And I'm not going to feel as rushed, but I'm going to also be
(28:00):
an analytical. It's a different approach that
you take now, let me under score.
If you go on a first date, so I'm, I'm I buy the you should
go. You should, you should go into
your first date thinking that you're going to see this person
many times after. But if you go into the first
date and there is no, you feel there's, there's the person's
(28:22):
not listening to you. They're not listening to you and
or you feel as if there's no physical attraction from your
side. No, I'm talking about 0 physical
attraction 0 and there's no, there's no need for a second
date. There's no need for, for, for
any, anything. But if you find that they listen
to you, there's a minimal level of physical attraction, you need
(28:45):
to show up on that second date. It's, it's very important, very
important because there is. This notion, I love talking to
you, Paul. It's so funny.
And I feel like we're like, I love matchmaking conversations.
It does this. This is my real house.
I love it. So what about this notion that
you can build attraction? OK, let's just say right,
you're, you had a great conversation, This person super
(29:05):
interesting. They listen to you, but like you
said, there's no attraction. What about this notion that you
can build attraction over time? Yeah.
So the question I I love this question because this has also
been one of the most popular questions through the years,
right. So I now have the research to
back up all of all of my my answers on this one.
(29:26):
Yeah. So if there is let's like cut
right to the chase on physical attraction.
The real question around that for most people is would you
have interest in having sex withthis particular person, right.
Like ultimately, and I'm not talking about one off, I'm
talking about continually or youknow, with with with.
(29:48):
OK, I'll try it once and. See if I like.
It yeah, because you talk to especially you talk to a lot of
guys, they're like what? Yeah, what time, but but no, no,
I'm talking about the team, right.
So this is one question Now the next is is there zero or is
there minimal? Because there's a difference
between 0 and normal. 0 means no, I have no attract.
(30:13):
They're at no attraction. Minimal means, yeah, I've seen a
lot better looking guys or girlsor whatever it may be.
And you know what? There's certain things about
them that are, you know, that are not appealing.
But minimally, like, like that's, that's, that's minimal.
(30:33):
I can see it. Maybe.
Yeah, if you could see it, maybethat is enough to get you into
the game. Because what the studies then
show is that attraction builds over time as we become more
intimate. And I'm talking about physical
intimate, I'm talking about emotionally intimate because
(30:56):
there's a whole range of emotional intimacy.
And the highest, the highest level of emotional intimacy is
complete utter vulnerability. And in order to get to that
highest level of emotional intimacy, you need to have
complete utter trust. And here is my guarantee is if
you have complete utter trust with someone that you could be
(31:20):
entirely you and vulnerable with, I guarantee you if you
started at minimal attraction with them, they will be super
hot to you. Super, yes.
Right. Oh yeah.
So so so. So, so, so, so this is something
that we have to understand. Then also from a pure artificial
standpoint, I should say artificial from a pure
superficial standpoint, because this is what a lot of the guys,
(31:44):
I hear a lot of the guys, a lot of the fellas, but, and I know a
lot of ladies say the same thingis, Oh my gosh, I'm minimally
attracted to them. Now, once they get 1015 years
older, like, ah, none of them. Let me tell you, we live in a
day and age where you have men and women who are 60 and 70
(32:06):
physically looking way superior to 30 year olds out here.
I mean, we have right now, we'reliving in a different age where
we are much more health conscious.
So even though we have high levels of, of, of health issues,
we're just more health consciousand we're more cosmetically
aware than we were in the past. You know, when I, when I talk
(32:29):
about cosmetics is you think about even how shirts fit
people, you know, and, and, and,and, and, and jackets and
clothing, they fit and they hug in different areas to enhance
the physicality of us, right. It's a different age.
It's a different age. And so from, from a superficial
standpoint, there's no like we're just getting better with
(32:51):
age, you know, in essence. But then also the larger point
is if there's a minimal level, Iguarantee you, you work on the
emotional intimacy piece, it's going to take you, it's going to
take you, it's going to take youhome, It's going to, it's going
to move you from Canada to Oh yeah, yes.
Because I can be fully myself with that person, I can share a
(33:14):
lot more than just this physicalit.
It's this, this deeper openness that you can have with somebody
and that lends itself to good sex.
I mean, really. No, no.
It's it's not just we. Know that it's not just like
this having like sex with somebody you don't know is like,
(33:35):
you know, often uncomfortable. Like, I mean, you know, and then
it's just. But if you know somebody really
when we love them and you have that, let's just say you have
that deep sense of I'm feeling really good around this person
outside the bedroom. Inside it's going to be even
better. So yeah, hands down.
Hands down, yeah. So let's.
Talk about non starters because I want to understand how you
(33:56):
help your clients identify what those are.
You said they affect your healthand your happiness long term.
So how do you and this is this is a need, right?
Or is this this is a want? Oh, there's not a want your
preference. This is like a deal breaker.
Like how do you I want to understand the difference
between non starter need and deal breaker.
(34:16):
Are they the same? Yeah.
Good. Yeah.
No, no. Good.
Good. Good question.
Good question. So I, you know, we all have
wants. To me, a want is a bonus, you
know? Yes.
But. But but a need is never a bonus
because a need is what you require.
A need actually is a part of your boundary.
And I always say that the higherour boundaries, the higher
(34:37):
quality of life we have. So a need makes up a need is
like a brick in your boundary, you know, in your, in your, I
like that, your boundary fence. That's what a need is.
And so a non starter is exactly that.
It's one of those bricks. And a non starter is something
that directly impacts health andhappiness.
(34:58):
And and really what that means is it it directly impedes, you
know, it stops your health or happiness.
So a big one, a big big one, thedesire to have children.
Yes, this, this, this, this, this, this comes up all the
time. You know someone who feel you
know so and it's, it's typicallytalked about from the woman's
(35:19):
perspective, but even I'll talk about it from my perspective.
I knew since I was little that Iwanted to have kids.
I had a cabbage this Cabbage Patch Kid named Raymond that I
used to carry around. All the time I.
Love that to the I had a cabbage.
Patch Kid too. That was our generation movie.
Yeah, yeah. What was your cat?
Do you remember? You know what's really funny?
Is that I was, I was that girl that had had dolls because my
(35:41):
mom and dad bought them for you.But I had two brothers and so I
played more with my brother's toys than I did with the dolls.
I can't remember their names at all.
I wasn't attached to them in anyway.
Oh my gosh. Well, Rob, I was in love with
little Raymond. This is how in love I was.
I brought so I got Raymond when I was, who knows, You know,
maybe I don't know, 11-12, who knows.
But I kept Raymond, and I brought Raymond to college with
(36:05):
me. Wow.
Oh my God, Bob, so so. When I moved into my dorm I had
Raymond with me, so it was one of those where everyone knew
okay, this guys like just a little weird or he really wants
to have kids. That is so.
Cute, yes. So, so for me that was a that's
(36:25):
a non starter. We're not, I mean, I'm sorry, we
can't do this. If you can't, if you're not, if
you're and it's not even just you being open to the
conversation, it's no, you've consciously thought about
wanting to have children and you've said to yourself, you are
interested, right? That is a boundary.
And so that's, that's one a verypopular non starter today is,
(36:49):
are you interested in having, are you interested in being
married? Because we're, we're, we're,
we're also in a day and age where we have many nuances to
coupling now, right? It's not just marriage.
Hundreds, literally hundreds of variations of, of, of, of
coupling, you know, from polyamorous to, to, you know,
(37:10):
other non monogamous styles to monogamous styles, you know,
you, you, you just, there's lotsof different.
And so one question for a lot ofpeople, a lot of people say to
themselves, well, you know, I, Iwant to be married.
I, I want to be married, but there are many people who have
no interest, no interest in marriage.
That could be a non starter, right?
(37:30):
So non starters, they're bricks within your boundary fence.
There are things that directly impact your health or happiness,
yes. Really like that.
I can't believe the time is going by so fast, Paul, but I do
want to touch about really importantly as well is
understanding your own personality type and how
(37:53):
important that is and then how you want to find somebody that
has a personality type that complements yours.
And really because really what what this comes down to on the
very simplest basis is you want to be with somebody that you can
get along with long term. I mean, you are talking about
(38:15):
being with this person. If you are thinking marriage and
long term or even it just you want to be in a relationship
with somebody, you want to have you, you want to enjoy their
company and actually be with them.
Just have a good, like, I mean, you're here to enjoy life,
right? I mean the life is so life is so
difficult at times. And if you don't, if you can't
be with somebody that you reallywant to be with that you enjoy
(38:35):
being with, then what's the point?
So I, I just think there's, there's not enough discussion
around personality types when itcomes to finding your match.
It's like, it's so like we just talked about the beginning.
It's so much about the stuff like their job or what they look
like and their, their stature and all this.
Just like what are you talking about?
You have to really like that person and get along with them
(38:56):
right? Amen, Robin, I mean, everything
you're saying I'm saying, I'm saying Amen to, you know that I
agree. A matter of fact, via social
media. The last couple months I've been
really, Oh my gosh, I've just been going in on this subject
because we don't do enough analysis.
(39:18):
And yeah, it doesn't sound, it sounds kind of nerdy to say
doing analysis, right. But but no, no, but that's the
case because if your route is a partner for life, you have to
understand that that's the most important decision of your
entire life. More important as.
Far as you go to. More important than the jobs you
(39:39):
choose, more important than the friends you choose, it is who is
going to be your partner for life.
If that's what you, if that's the route that you want to go,
that's your most important question, right?
So that's your most important question.
That's the most important decision.
You have to give it analysis. You have to give it diligence,
right? You have to give it
(40:00):
investigation with rigor. And to your question of
personality, we don't give personality typically any
analysis. And to me, personality is even
more important than just base level communication.
My first time using ChatGPT, what I did is I went into this
AI system and I said. I want you to tell me the 10
(40:23):
most popular books ever written on finding and keeping love.
And then ChatGPT gave me the list of the books.
Yes. And then I said, I want you to
summarize each one of these books and tell me what were the
top three lessons from these topbooks ever written on finding,
(40:44):
keeping love. And then it's, and then check.
And once it works in seconds. So then Chat ChatGPT came back
and #1 by far as you could probably guess was these books
talked about communication and the important, the importance of
being to the importance of articulating an idea and having
someone to receive the idea. But this is what I think has
(41:06):
been missed in the conversation about communication.
Great personalities. To me it's about the ability to
resolve conflict, yes. That's.
Really what the personality is about, because you can say a
relationship is purely about joy, which I think it's
definitely about joy, but many of us could also look at a
(41:30):
relationship and say it's also aplace of growth, yes.
And. If a relationship is a place of
growth, it must mean it's a place of discomfort, because you
can't have growth without discomfort.
And if it's a place of discomfort, that means it's a
place of disagreement. And if it's a place of
disagreement, that means it's going to be a place of conflict.
(41:56):
There's going to be. Conflict inevitable, are you?
That means. But if it is, if it is, you need
to have communication to resolvethe conflict.
Yes. And and to me, that's what
having great, you know, or I should say great complementary
personalities is all that's right.
That's the reason why it's so important.
That's right. And in.
Your book you, you do go througha lot about this and I think
(42:20):
it's not about finding somebody that's exactly like you, because
that is probably not going to work, but it's it's finding
something that'll compliment you.
I think about myself, I was I was trying to think about
because you you use Carl Young'smodel of personality types in
your book and I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, OK, and I
have to and I, I really want to dive into that a little bit more
to actually pinpoint. I think I'm a few, I think I'm,
(42:43):
I'm definitely like a little bitof AI don't know mixed with
controller and promoter. So we are out of time.
I can't believe this, Paul, but I and I wanted to talk for I
want to talk about another hour about like you, you and you and
Jill have this amazing thing called 10 lessons about
marriage. And I just want to ask you to
(43:05):
come back on our show and we cantalk about that because we
talked about the finding and we talked about the keeping.
Because I think when you implement these like these
principles that we just talked about when you're looking for a
mate, this gives you so much better chance of finding and
finding somebody that you can actually be with long term.
Really. I mean, it's so, so important.
(43:29):
So I think we covered, but then next time we talk, I really want
to go into the keeping love and how you do that long term
because you've been with your wife for over 21 years.
Is that right? Yeah.
Oh yeah. It's. 20/22/22 years.
Wow, yeah, that's that's just beautiful.
And and yeah, just you're such agreat teacher and a great mentor
and all around great guys. So thank you so much, Paula, for
(43:51):
our time. I appreciate it.
But but. But Robin, there's one question
I have to ask you. You didn't give me the the the
Rachel. Oh my God, I didn't.
Give you the Rachel story. OK.
So yeah, we are similar in the fact that we changed careers.
I was, I mean, I've, I've had different careers in my life.
I sold medical supplies for many, many years, loved it.
I became a realtor and then I had my first daughter and I took
(44:13):
a year to be with her. And then I was like, OK, I'm
going back into the workforce. And I was like, I don't want to
do that again. So I thought, you know what?
I'm going to do something different.
And my twin brother, he's like, Robin, I think you should become
a matchmaker. Like, who the hell thinks of
that? I feel like it was out of
nowhere, like out of left field.I said to Reese, I was like, are
you crazy? Like, what are you talking
(44:34):
about? He's like, I think you would
love it. I think you just go into it,
Just look into it. So I did my research and I found
Rachel. I, you know, I'm like, I'm going
to learn from the best of the best.
That's the only way to do this. If I'm going to enter a new
career, I better interview different people that are doing
really well in this and see if this might be a good path for
me. And so I did, She was one top on
my list. I interviewed actually quite a
(44:55):
few matchmakers, mostly out of the states.
And Rachel said you need to cometo Denver and take my
matchmaking boot camp. So I did that and, and then I
went to, I went and joined the matchmaking Institute with Lisa
Clampett. And anyways, I studied and I
took, you know, went, I did, I did the whole thing.
I felt like I went to back to school for two years, started my
own practice as a matchmaker andlove coach and did that for, for
(45:18):
many years before entering into this, this side of the love
business. But it's so we have, we have, we
have Rachel in common and I loveher so much.
And Lisa? And Lisa.
And Lisa. Lisa is.
So great. So it's a it's a beautiful world
being in this business. I really, I get to meet people
like you and and talk about what's really important, which
(45:42):
is our relationships. There's nothing more important.
No, nothing. Nothing more important.
Amen. I mean every I've been saying
Amen. It's everything that that you
said. I completely I completely agree.
Completely agree. I hope you enjoy the rest of
your day. Thank you.
It's been an honor. Thank you.
(46:02):
So. Much for being here with us,
Let's Talk Love is brought to you by Real Love Ready and
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(47:07):
gratitude for the Coach Salish people, the stewards of the land
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on as well. Many blessings and much love.
Welcome to Let's Talk Love, the podcast that brings you real
talk, fresh ideas, and expert insights every week.
Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and
relationships, and they're here for you with tools, information,
and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love,
relate, and communicate. We tackle the big questions, not
(00:25):
shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the
joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharne.
Now let's talk love. Welcome, everyone, to this
episode of Let's Talk LOVE. I'm so happy to have our guest,
(00:46):
Paul Branson and Paul. See Paul, you have a you have a
three, three name. You have three names in your
name, Paul Carrick Branson. So is this 2 last names?
Is this your middle name? Where is Carrick from?
Is that Tony? Is that that is your middle name
that. That that is my middle name is
There's a long story. Yeah, there's a long story for
(01:06):
the middle name, but yes, but. I like, I really like the fact
that you have your middle name in your name because I mean, I
could say Robin Helen Ducharme, but I don't, I say Robin
Ducharme. Maybe I should say Robin Helen
Ducharme. It would honor my grandma who
I'm named after. Anyways, that's a that's a good
one. I like it.
Exactly. Exactly.
So Paul, I, we're, I'm so happy to have you on the show today.
(01:27):
I really have been following youfor since 2012 and I love your
work and I just think you're just such a genuine, A genuine
person with, with great integrity from what I from what
I know about you and you're justso incredibly smart and also
just so relatable. So I'm so excited for this
conversation. That's the best, that's the best
way. Well, I will take it.
(01:50):
I can can I say I'm I'm I'm honored by the by the 2012.
That's interesting. That's that's over 10 years ago.
So that that's some time I'll. Tell you more about it in our
conversation. OK.
So, so Paul, you today we're going to be talking obviously
about love and relationships andabout your book, which I so
(02:10):
enjoyed. And I learned, I mean, every
time I read a relationship book,I learn.
I learned so much and I learned a lot from your book.
And I am a former matchmaker andlove coach.
And so you know a lot of things you were talking about in your
book. I, I know, and I resonate with,
but obviously there's always something new to learn.
(02:30):
And when I was researching you and I, I know that, you know,
your former life, you worked as an investment banker, right?
Is that true? And then you switched, you
switched careers. You did, you did A18360,
whatever you call it, and went into the love business.
And I really like the story of how in the process of, you know,
(02:51):
switching careers and if I'm wrong, you please correct me.
But you and your wife Jill hosted singles dinners like you
would invite your friends that were single together and play
games and interact and, and, andmatchmake in a way.
So can you just tell us a littlebit about that and how, how you
got into becoming entering the love business?
And it was kind of almost like anatural it, it felt, it seemed
(03:13):
to me like from learning about you that seemed quite, quite
natural transition. It was, it, it, it felt that
well, in hindsight, it definitely was.
And it was, it was, you know, I,I believe that we're always, you
know, in the place that we're meant to be.
And even though that place they feel uncomfortable, we have to
stop, take a moment, take a breath and understand why are we
(03:33):
there. And, and the key way to do that
is to think about the lesson, right?
What are you learning in the moment?
And was interesting for me is that, as you mentioned, Robin is
I was my first part of my careerwas in finance and I hated it.
I would think to myself, why am I here?
What's the point of all of this?But it led me to understand
(03:55):
humanity and why we do the things that we do.
And it actually gave me skills. And those skills allowed me to
start a summer camp program or, or a program, a tutoring
program. And then it was through that
tutoring program that allowed meto become a matchmaker, right?
And so you could see that I, I would not have become a
(04:17):
matchmaker if it wasn't for the summer camp, if it wasn't for
the tutoring, if it wasn't for, for, for the finance career.
But, but specifically to your question I had.
So this is the summer of Oh my gosh, what is it?
This is 2008. Two.
No, no, 2005. This is the summer of 2005,
(04:38):
roughly. My wife and I had a summer camp
where it was a tutoring program,but we and we had it up and down
the East Coast of the United States, but in particular, this
one was running in Washington, DC.
It was focused on children who were coming from low income
households and, you know, neededhelp with math and science and,
and, and English. And in the camp when you
(05:01):
registered, we would ask you a series of questions.
One question that turned out to be the, you know, the $1,000,000
question was, well, how many parents live in your household,
Robin? Right.
And what you would see is that you'd see these child after
child after child would say, well, I only have, you know, one
parent or I only live with grandma or I only live with
(05:21):
auntie. And so there was a succession of
I don't live with both of my parents and there was very
little male representation in the household.
Yes. And and I thought that was that
was really interesting. And so I would talk about that
often at the camp and the other and the counselors at the camp
would say, well, Paul, why don'tyou just become hitch?
(05:43):
You could just be Hitch and hookup all the moms.
And dads, right? Oh, I love that.
Yeah. Yeah.
And that would be it. And so that was seated the idea
for my wife and I to start hosting these parties that we
call the Brown Sugar Party now. Now, Robin, I have to ask you,
do you know why? What do you know why we call it
the Brown Sugar Party? And these were parties at our
(06:04):
house where we would invite singles over.
Do you have any guess, Any guess?
The Brown. Sugar Party.
Well, the guess would be that you're inviting people, black
people to your parties. Are you?
Is it, does it does it have to do with your heritage being like
you're Jamaican And I know in inDC there's a lot of
representation. So is that Is that something?
(06:25):
So This is why I asked, because this is this is the answer that
everyone gives me. But that wasn't it.
It was because we were drinking alcohol.
It had, it was brown sugar. It was like like brown Hennessy.
Yeah, yeah. Rob.
Yeah. OK.
Any, any kind of brown sugar alcohol because.
And that's, that's what went along with the with the party.
(06:46):
But it's interesting because whenever I say brown sugar,
everyone says it was a black thing.
And I was like, no, it was just everything.
Oh, I know why. So yes, so we, we, we were
drinking because a lot of it hadto do with questions and
answers. And if you didn't get the quest
or answer right, you had to, youknow you, you had to.
Drink to drink. But it did drink.
It was a drinking game party too.
(07:07):
It was a drinking game party. It was, it was a good, good, But
the point though, of the party was to allow for an environment
for people to interact and meet outside of a club or outside of
work. Because, you know, circa 2005,
2006, the top way that we were meeting significant others
wasn't yet online. It was through work.
(07:30):
The church was still up there, friends and family was, was, was
still up there. Restaurants, clubs, bars, you
know, we're still up there. But people were clamoring for
new ways to connect. And that was an environment that
we thought where it was a bit prearranged because we only
invited, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was all, it was
heterosexual. So it was 7 men, seven women.
(07:51):
But we invited you. So there was a little bit of
strategy, you know, to. Yes, I really, I just so love
that. That's what happened.
That's how it started. Well, and you were, it's such a
gift that you and your wife weregiving the community and, and
giving that and actually I'm giving that opportunity to meet
other singles and you were setting it up.
(08:12):
I mean, I just think it's a beautiful thing.
Yeah, it was. It was.
So it was definitely. Yeah, it sounds like it.
I would I would love to be in the brown sugar party.
That sounds great. So today I really want to dive
into your book. And also there's community
questions that we that we are always asked of our experts.
And so I wanted to integrate those as well.
(08:34):
Your book, really your book is called it's complicated, but it
doesn't have to be a modern day guide to finding a keeping love.
And it really the finding is thebig is a big piece that keeping
is a big piece. So you know that is you know,
we'll go through. I think, you know, really you
talk about the tenants of what it really is to attract, to
(08:58):
bring in somebody that is a goodmatch for you.
And it's not just about your type, type hype and all that
stuff we're going to go through.But then really it's like once
you meet that person, is it OK? Is this for real?
Do you really want to get into amarriage or a long term
partnership? Are you ready for that and what
it entails? And then how do you keep that
going so. So what's?
So one of the first community questions, yeah, one of the
(09:20):
first community questions is what do you see as the biggest
challenges singles face in the dating world today, and how
would you suggest people approach them?
That's a big question. Yeah, that's a big and that's a
popular question. So I think one thing that we
have to understand, and this is around the world.
So I primarily work in the UK, in the US and all throughout the
Caribbean. And so I'm seeing lots of
(09:42):
different cultures. And what's interesting is within
every, within each one of those nations, within all the cultures
within those nations, you have people talk about how hard it
is, how challenging it is to meet a significant other in this
day and age, right? There's all these reasons,
right? There's so many reasons.
(10:04):
So, so the list of reasons are, are, are numerous, but one of
the bigger reasons that I believe we have such an issue
today is this whole paradox of choice.
And, and Barry Swartz wrote a book a long, long time ago
around this, around the paradox of choice.
And he's the one who phrased the, the term less is more, or
(10:25):
you could say more is less, right.
And this whole notion of analysis paralysis.
So whenever we're presented withmany different perceived options
and I want to under score perceived, whenever we're
presented with many perceived options, we take less
satisfaction in the choice or inthe option that we actually
(10:48):
choose. So you think about a number one
source of meeting a significant other today is online, right?
Without question, it's online. A matter of fact, there's some
studies that suggest that up to 80% of new spouses are the
derivative is online, right? There's a lot of Prince Harry,
Meghan Markle commentary right now.
And we, I think one of the biggest epiphanies lately about
(11:09):
them was, Oh my God, they've met.
They've technically met on Instagram, you know.
Yeah, yeah. Like back in the day, it used to
be like one and three, right, Which which actually was a large
number. I remember that when I was when
I was matchmaking 2014, 2015, itwas like, right.
It was like 33%. Now if you're saying 80I, I'm
not surprised, but wow. Right.
(11:30):
And and by the way, that 80% number is just going higher and
higher. Oh yes, and higher, yes.
So, but here's the issue as it connects to, to, to Swartz is
that we have perceived options. So many of us think we can get
onto our mobile device and just keep swiping and swiping and
swiping, endless choice. And therefore, when we do end up
(11:54):
making a choice, we have so little satisfaction, so little
value in that choice that right now, some of the crazy, some of
the, I wouldn't even say crazy. The startling, startling studies
that I've seen suggest that one out of every two people who are
on a date that goes wrong, right?
So you, you think that the date isn't going to last or, you
(12:16):
know, you want to get out of thedate, they have already jumped
back on line on a dating app before they reach home.
So they're already in that swipe, already in the same in
the same period. So so the whole point is that we
have less satisfaction the choices that we're making.
This, I think is driving a lot of the issues, not all, but a
(12:41):
lot of the issues when it comes to us being able to do not
connect. And so the answer to that, the
antidote to that is that you want to understand a you don't
have endless choice. Just because there is 50 million
people on Tinder doesn't mean that you have, you know, 50
million options because because they're not all out there for
(13:02):
you. So that's is the is the
intellectually understand you don't have endless choice.
Secondly, is to put more energy into the choices that you're
actually making. And that energy is not only in
the, in the choice selection, but also how you show up, why
you show up, the evaluation of the person when you show up,
(13:24):
which hopefully we'll get into because I think that's also a,
it feels like a, the evaluation how to choose a partner wisely
is so is such a mystery to people.
But these are some of the antidotes.
But the reason because your question was, is why I think
that it's a lot of it has to do with the analysis paralysis,
right? We think that there's endless
choice out here. Yeah, I, I fully agree with you,
(13:48):
Paul. So one of the, you know, I, I
think this quote from your book is a, a great start to the, the
getting into the deep of what makes a good match because
people are going to be like, OK,I mean, I'm sure you get this
question all the time as a matchmaker.
OK, well then, OK, how is this going to work?
Right. And you say, I found in my
practice that if you can confirmthat a partner shares your top
(14:11):
values, has a personality that meshes with your own, which is
what I really want, I want to talk a lot about because people
don't people miss that one and meet meets your non starters and
there is a healthy level of romantic attraction.
OK. We want, it's not always about
just all the romantic attraction, which I think people
are way too focused on. Your chance of making a
(14:31):
successful match goes from virtually nothing from about
.04% to nearly 50% chance. So 50% chance.
OK, OK, Paul, do you want to expand on that quote before we
go into really talking about thenon starters and personality
types and what do you want to say about that?
I think those that really sums it up though, don't you think?
No, no, absolutely. And and that is a great dovetail
(14:53):
off of that, that last topic that we were talking about,
because I think a big challenge that so many of us have is then
when we're out on these dates and we're really trying to, you
know, even like you asked, like what is a date?
You know, to, to me, it's about exploring if there is romantic
interest or if you're already ina relationship to expand or to
(15:14):
sustain that romantic interest, right.
That's, that's to me, what, what, what a date is.
But, but unfortunately, when a lot of people go on dates and
they don't yet have that partner, they don't know how to
determine if that person is the right partner, especially when
most dates kind of start with people just binge drinking and
(15:35):
then continuing to drink into the day.
So it's like, how do you assess?And so that quote that you just
pulled from the book is, I thinka baseline.
It's like, OK, let's identify what are your values.
Let's see if there's a compliment in personality.
Let's see if there's any non starters.
So these are things that directly impact your health or
happiness. Do do you have any non starters?
(15:57):
Because if you do, it's going todirectly impact my health or
happiness. Let's make sure that there's
mutual attraction here, minimal level of mutual attraction.
If you have all of those things,you start from a place of
strength opposed to a place of weakness.
Yes, and I imagine in your practice, what you're seeing
with clients, which I was day in, day out is people come in
(16:18):
and I say, OK, and you know, andmaybe it was my own trap I was
falling into was like, what are you looking for to mate?
Right. That was my one of my first
questions, of course. And it would inevitably turn
into this is my type, this is mylist.
And I'm making, I've got my piece of paper, my pad of paper
and my pen and I'm writing down the list of this.
(16:39):
I'd like you like we talked about it online dating.
It's like this is this this wishthat you're putting on the
universe for this perfect personthat looks like this, that acts
like this, that right? And it's all, you know, for
women. He, you know, of course he has
to be over 6 feet. He has to be tall, he has to be
successful, he has to be handsome, he has to be well
groomed. And like you, you have this, you
(17:00):
have this list in your book too.And the funny, funny thing is
there's like these oxymorons that are obviously present,
right? Like, yes, it you say he has to
take charge, lead and direct until she disagrees with his
direction and a man who will paythe bills, but she but she has
to be an independent woman, right?
It says, what are you talking about?
And then the men are like, OK, she's hot, she's attractive,
(17:22):
She's skinny, she's slim, but maybe she's got a little bit of
a booty, whatever. But she's soft and gentle,
nurturing. But she's also has her stuff
together and she's independent, but she also has to be a good
mom. And she's like drama free.
But it's just like all of these things, like, what do you?
And then you say, like, at the end of the day, are you asking
for a computer program? Like, is it a bot?
What's the word you use bot or whatever?
I can't. Yeah.
(17:44):
But this is the problem with thetype.
But this is so this is really where people are AT though.
And when they're going online, they've got their type.
When they're when they're putting it out there, it's so
superficially focused. So we really have to steer away
from that. We do.
And I guess we also have to understand that, you know, we
(18:05):
get the type subconsciously, thetype comes to us.
Yes, absolutely. True.
The, it's based on the content that we've consumed across our
life. So the type begins in that whole
attachment theory with attachment theory.
So in that attachment phase, So when we are literally, you know,
from zero to age 4, roughly whenwe're forming that first love
(18:29):
with the caregiver, that's that's where our type begins.
Whoever that first person is that we felt safe with who
nurtured us, that becomes the ideal person because here this
is this is exactly the person who is supporting us.
And then from there it grows, right when I say it grows is the
(18:49):
type evolves. So it's about where do we live?
Who were socialized around, right, The clubs and activities
that we're in, the television shows that we're watching, right
as we get older, organizations that we're a part of,
organizations that we're not a part of, right.
All of these things, all of the content that we consume.
And right now, a lot of it is, is, is TikTok and Instagram and
(19:10):
what we perceive as the ideal. So the ideals of all of these
types become what we see as our go to.
And so we have to understand, wejust have to accept this.
This is why a huge part of relationships with other people
begins with the relationship we have with our self.
(19:33):
And you can't have a relationship with yourself
without understanding of yourself and why it is that you
think the way that you do. What drives that thought, right?
To actually do that exploration helps you tremendously because
then you can understand how to manage and change if necessary.
(19:53):
So I'm totally with you on the type.
The types tend not to be successful.
They tend to be. They tend to be.
Fences almost, because if someone doesn't fit that type,
we end up pushing them away, whereas they could actually be a
terrific match for us. And so if we understand this,
that types are not good, which they're not right, types are not
(20:15):
good, then what we need to do isunderstand why it is that we
create these types, and it's because of the content that we
consume. So therefore, how do we change
it consume different content? Really love that I you, you made
a, an Instagram post on this a while back and it was something
around. It's so important what we daily
consume. What books are you reading?
(20:37):
What shows are you watching? Who are you interacting with?
Like, I mean, it's just if it's all like, you know, you're
watching horror movies you're watching like the you know, I
don't, I don't know you're reading.
I do I do I do read the Daily News on my on my apps everyday
just to see what's going on in the world.
But I have to take that with a grain of salt too.
But I know I know exactly what you're saying right now.
And I think, you know, going back to how our attachments are
(20:59):
formed and where our type is formed.
I mean, it, it's so much of thisis all of that.
I suppose. Like, first, it's like little
girls and boys like watching cartoons.
It's like the fairy tales. And it's like, I mean, I grew up
like we all grew up on that. A lot of us did from a very
young age until I stopped watching cartoons.
But all of it's the same message.
The woman, the girl gets saved. It's like my Prince Charming.
(21:19):
And it's like everything has to do with finding that Prince and
happily ever after. It's like there's no set.
It's not. That's not the way it goes.
Yeah, Robin, I mean, that's that's a brilliant, brilliant
point because because even the print who is the Prince, the
Prince is always like describe the Prince.
He's tall, dark, handsome and and and actually, I mean, even
to get into the to to to the racial element is like, you
(21:41):
know, the Prince is technically not dark.
He is tan features, but he's never a black Prince.
Yes. So it's like you have all of
these types that you're right asa child we're seeing and we buy
into subconsciously. So how do you work with clients
to, because you, you know, it's talking about getting to know
(22:02):
yourself first. How do you work with clients to
get to know their top values just quickly?
Like do you, do you point them to a website?
Do you? Because I just think I, I
thought about this because I'm like, I know I've done a lot of
exercises like this in my life. And if I was to say my top
values, you mean off the bat, I'd know, you know, my family,
my friends, my spirituality. It's funny.
(22:24):
But even this year, I think yourvalues can change.
Or maybe you just identify them differently.
But like this year, because we've gone through a lot of
hardship on our family, I'm likejoy.
I cannot live without joy. It is a must.
It is like I need that in my life.
It is a value that I hold so dear.
And I didn't realize it until I was without it.
I'm like, you know, So how do you help people nail down their
(22:46):
values before they are looking for that match and a partner?
Yeah. You know, it, it's, it is, it
could it, it can be tricky because to your point is values
evolve and they, I, I, I even think they, they mutate in a way
because, you know, joy is probably always been a value,
but it's almost shape shifted, you know, across, across your
(23:08):
life. But one of the quickest ways,
one of the best exercises, is tosit down and to identify where
do you spend your extra money and your extra time.
Now, a lot of us don't have extra money or extra time, but
I'm talking about, say you don'twork on Sunday, right?
(23:32):
So what are you doing? You didn't work.
Exactly what are you doing with that time?
Now clearly you could have worked all week.
So you sleep in, right? It doesn't mean that you're
valuing sleep, although we all should value sleep.
But what I'm saying is, is that then when you wake up and you
have that extra time, you have some time on your hand, you have
a free afternoon. What do you do with it, right?
(23:53):
And if you look and then where you spending your money, right?
When you have a little bit extrato spend, what, where you
spending it? If you look across the last
several months at that extra time and that extra money, that
is probably going to be precisely what you value.
And the reason why this is to some people a shocking exercise
(24:16):
is because we begin to see that we may value certain things that
we don't profess to value, if you know what I mean, right,
that we don't profess the value.So what I found a lot of the
time with with matchmaking is that if I were to ask, what do
you value right out the gate, people would say religion, you
(24:36):
know, it's all about religion isthis is this is this.
And then when you begin to unpack their last several months
or year, you realize, hold on for a second, do you truly, is
this really what you value? And so because you're not
spending any time or money towards it, so you want to look
at those things. And that same exercise that you
apply to yourself is how you evaluate someone else's values.
(25:00):
Because you could ask someone until they're blue in the face
what do you value and they will always give you what they either
want you to think they value or altruistically.
What they think they should value what they think.
Exactly, exactly. Is it because they're out here
trying to get trying to get thatthat job?
Yes, as your. Woman or your?
Man, you know, but instead, that's why the evaluation period
(25:25):
in dating is so important. And so by the time you're on
that 3rd, 4th, 5th date, you should understand it where
you're on the call. What have they been spending
their time on? What have they been spending
their money on? You know, they say they value
family, but they never call their parents.
They never want to see their parents.
They like they're estranged fromtheir from their family.
So how is it that they truly value family?
(25:47):
You know, my gosh, I. Really like this?
Yeah, this is really good exercise.
Fantastic. And this goes to I think what's
really also very important whichyou which you mentioned a few
times is, you know, the 4th, 5thdate.
It's like give somebody, OK, first date if it's a complete
disaster and you're like, this person is absolutely clearly not
a match. I do not want to see that person
(26:08):
ever again. Forget it, right?
However, like like Rachel, like Rachel Greenwald, who we both
know and have learned under she,she always said like you give
people three dates minimum, likejust let's just start there and
then we'll go up from or not. But, and I really agree with
that because it's like the firstdate is just like you, you
posted something about this. It's like you're interviewing or
(26:30):
it's like a facade. You're meeting somebody that is
probably not showing up as themselves fully.
Yeah, they're representative. They're.
Representative Right. And by the second date, OK,
maybe a little bit warmed up by the 3rd.
So I, I just think you have to give somebody time and you're
not going to see their value show up or get to know that
about them without giving them those like more than three, four
(26:54):
dates, five dates, wouldn't you say you so?
So, so to that point, this, thistouches upon what we were
talking about earlier as far as when you said that, that first
question was, well, how do we like there's, it's so hard to
find a partner in, in this day and age.
And my thought was, OK, to counteract analysis paralysis,
you have to put more effort intothe selection.
(27:17):
Part of that is this idea of, and Rachel's idea of, OK, I'm
going to see this person three times.
That's a totally different mindset that you have to go into
that first date with. Then if I'm going to see this
person maybe for just 30 seconds, then I'm going to walk
out, right? The latter, but they become more
(27:40):
disposable. The former is, is hold on, if
I'm going to go on three dates with this person, I am going to
do a lot more analysis upfront. But also I'm going to now have
enough time to give my questionstime to breathe.
And I'm not going to feel as rushed, but I'm going to also be
(28:00):
an analytical. It's a different approach that
you take now, let me under score.
If you go on a first date, so I'm, I'm I buy the you should
go. You should, you should go into
your first date thinking that you're going to see this person
many times after. But if you go into the first
date and there is no, you feel there's, there's the person's
(28:22):
not listening to you. They're not listening to you and
or you feel as if there's no physical attraction from your
side. No, I'm talking about 0 physical
attraction 0 and there's no, there's no need for a second
date. There's no need for, for, for
any, anything. But if you find that they listen
to you, there's a minimal level of physical attraction, you need
(28:45):
to show up on that second date. It's, it's very important, very
important because there is. This notion, I love talking to
you, Paul. It's so funny.
And I feel like we're like, I love matchmaking conversations.
It does this. This is my real house.
I love it. So what about this notion that
you can build attraction? OK, let's just say right,
you're, you had a great conversation, This person super
(29:05):
interesting. They listen to you, but like you
said, there's no attraction. What about this notion that you
can build attraction over time? Yeah.
So the question I I love this question because this has also
been one of the most popular questions through the years,
right. So I now have the research to
back up all of all of my my answers on this one.
(29:26):
Yeah. So if there is let's like cut
right to the chase on physical attraction.
The real question around that for most people is would you
have interest in having sex withthis particular person, right.
Like ultimately, and I'm not talking about one off, I'm
talking about continually or youknow, with with with.
(29:48):
OK, I'll try it once and. See if I like.
It yeah, because you talk to especially you talk to a lot of
guys, they're like what? Yeah, what time, but but no, no,
I'm talking about the team, right.
So this is one question Now the next is is there zero or is
there minimal? Because there's a difference
between 0 and normal. 0 means no, I have no attract.
(30:13):
They're at no attraction. Minimal means, yeah, I've seen a
lot better looking guys or girlsor whatever it may be.
And you know what? There's certain things about
them that are, you know, that are not appealing.
But minimally, like, like that's, that's, that's minimal.
(30:33):
I can see it. Maybe.
Yeah, if you could see it, maybethat is enough to get you into
the game. Because what the studies then
show is that attraction builds over time as we become more
intimate. And I'm talking about physical
intimate, I'm talking about emotionally intimate because
(30:56):
there's a whole range of emotional intimacy.
And the highest, the highest level of emotional intimacy is
complete utter vulnerability. And in order to get to that
highest level of emotional intimacy, you need to have
complete utter trust. And here is my guarantee is if
you have complete utter trust with someone that you could be
(31:20):
entirely you and vulnerable with, I guarantee you if you
started at minimal attraction with them, they will be super
hot to you. Super, yes.
Right. Oh yeah.
So so so. So, so, so, so this is something
that we have to understand. Then also from a pure artificial
standpoint, I should say artificial from a pure
superficial standpoint, because this is what a lot of the guys,
(31:44):
I hear a lot of the guys, a lot of the fellas, but, and I know a
lot of ladies say the same thingis, Oh my gosh, I'm minimally
attracted to them. Now, once they get 1015 years
older, like, ah, none of them. Let me tell you, we live in a
day and age where you have men and women who are 60 and 70
(32:06):
physically looking way superior to 30 year olds out here.
I mean, we have right now, we'reliving in a different age where
we are much more health conscious.
So even though we have high levels of, of, of health issues,
we're just more health consciousand we're more cosmetically
aware than we were in the past. You know, when I, when I talk
(32:29):
about cosmetics is you think about even how shirts fit
people, you know, and, and, and,and, and, and jackets and
clothing, they fit and they hug in different areas to enhance
the physicality of us, right. It's a different age.
It's a different age. And so from, from a superficial
standpoint, there's no like we're just getting better with
(32:51):
age, you know, in essence. But then also the larger point
is if there's a minimal level, Iguarantee you, you work on the
emotional intimacy piece, it's going to take you, it's going to
take you, it's going to take youhome, It's going to, it's going
to move you from Canada to Oh yeah, yes.
Because I can be fully myself with that person, I can share a
(33:14):
lot more than just this physicalit.
It's this, this deeper openness that you can have with somebody
and that lends itself to good sex.
I mean, really. No, no.
It's it's not just we. Know that it's not just like
this having like sex with somebody you don't know is like,
(33:35):
you know, often uncomfortable. Like, I mean, you know, and then
it's just. But if you know somebody really
when we love them and you have that, let's just say you have
that deep sense of I'm feeling really good around this person
outside the bedroom. Inside it's going to be even
better. So yeah, hands down.
Hands down, yeah. So let's.
Talk about non starters because I want to understand how you
(33:56):
help your clients identify what those are.
You said they affect your healthand your happiness long term.
So how do you and this is this is a need, right?
Or is this this is a want? Oh, there's not a want your
preference. This is like a deal breaker.
Like how do you I want to understand the difference
between non starter need and deal breaker.
(34:16):
Are they the same? Yeah.
Good. Yeah.
No, no. Good.
Good. Good question.
Good question. So I, you know, we all have
wants. To me, a want is a bonus, you
know? Yes.
But. But but a need is never a bonus
because a need is what you require.
A need actually is a part of your boundary.
And I always say that the higherour boundaries, the higher
(34:37):
quality of life we have. So a need makes up a need is
like a brick in your boundary, you know, in your, in your, I
like that, your boundary fence. That's what a need is.
And so a non starter is exactly that.
It's one of those bricks. And a non starter is something
that directly impacts health andhappiness.
(34:58):
And and really what that means is it it directly impedes, you
know, it stops your health or happiness.
So a big one, a big big one, thedesire to have children.
Yes, this, this, this, this, this, this comes up all the
time. You know someone who feel you
know so and it's, it's typicallytalked about from the woman's
(35:19):
perspective, but even I'll talk about it from my perspective.
I knew since I was little that Iwanted to have kids.
I had a cabbage this Cabbage Patch Kid named Raymond that I
used to carry around. All the time I.
Love that to the I had a cabbage.
Patch Kid too. That was our generation movie.
Yeah, yeah. What was your cat?
Do you remember? You know what's really funny?
Is that I was, I was that girl that had had dolls because my
(35:41):
mom and dad bought them for you.But I had two brothers and so I
played more with my brother's toys than I did with the dolls.
I can't remember their names at all.
I wasn't attached to them in anyway.
Oh my gosh. Well, Rob, I was in love with
little Raymond. This is how in love I was.
I brought so I got Raymond when I was, who knows, You know,
maybe I don't know, 11-12, who knows.
But I kept Raymond, and I brought Raymond to college with
(36:05):
me. Wow.
Oh my God, Bob, so so. When I moved into my dorm I had
Raymond with me, so it was one of those where everyone knew
okay, this guys like just a little weird or he really wants
to have kids. That is so.
Cute, yes. So, so for me that was a that's
(36:25):
a non starter. We're not, I mean, I'm sorry, we
can't do this. If you can't, if you're not, if
you're and it's not even just you being open to the
conversation, it's no, you've consciously thought about
wanting to have children and you've said to yourself, you are
interested, right? That is a boundary.
And so that's, that's one a verypopular non starter today is,
(36:49):
are you interested in having, are you interested in being
married? Because we're, we're, we're,
we're also in a day and age where we have many nuances to
coupling now, right? It's not just marriage.
Hundreds, literally hundreds of variations of, of, of, of
coupling, you know, from polyamorous to, to, you know,
(37:10):
other non monogamous styles to monogamous styles, you know,
you, you, you just, there's lotsof different.
And so one question for a lot ofpeople, a lot of people say to
themselves, well, you know, I, Iwant to be married.
I, I want to be married, but there are many people who have
no interest, no interest in marriage.
That could be a non starter, right?
(37:30):
So non starters, they're bricks within your boundary fence.
There are things that directly impact your health or happiness,
yes. Really like that.
I can't believe the time is going by so fast, Paul, but I do
want to touch about really importantly as well is
understanding your own personality type and how
(37:53):
important that is and then how you want to find somebody that
has a personality type that complements yours.
And really because really what what this comes down to on the
very simplest basis is you want to be with somebody that you can
get along with long term. I mean, you are talking about
(38:15):
being with this person. If you are thinking marriage and
long term or even it just you want to be in a relationship
with somebody, you want to have you, you want to enjoy their
company and actually be with them.
Just have a good, like, I mean, you're here to enjoy life,
right? I mean the life is so life is so
difficult at times. And if you don't, if you can't
be with somebody that you reallywant to be with that you enjoy
(38:35):
being with, then what's the point?
So I, I just think there's, there's not enough discussion
around personality types when itcomes to finding your match.
It's like, it's so like we just talked about the beginning.
It's so much about the stuff like their job or what they look
like and their, their stature and all this.
Just like what are you talking about?
You have to really like that person and get along with them
(38:56):
right? Amen, Robin, I mean, everything
you're saying I'm saying, I'm saying Amen to, you know that I
agree. A matter of fact, via social
media. The last couple months I've been
really, Oh my gosh, I've just been going in on this subject
because we don't do enough analysis.
(39:18):
And yeah, it doesn't sound, it sounds kind of nerdy to say
doing analysis, right. But but no, no, but that's the
case because if your route is a partner for life, you have to
understand that that's the most important decision of your
entire life. More important as.
Far as you go to. More important than the jobs you
(39:39):
choose, more important than the friends you choose, it is who is
going to be your partner for life.
If that's what you, if that's the route that you want to go,
that's your most important question, right?
So that's your most important question.
That's the most important decision.
You have to give it analysis. You have to give it diligence,
right? You have to give it
(40:00):
investigation with rigor. And to your question of
personality, we don't give personality typically any
analysis. And to me, personality is even
more important than just base level communication.
My first time using ChatGPT, what I did is I went into this
AI system and I said. I want you to tell me the 10
(40:23):
most popular books ever written on finding and keeping love.
And then ChatGPT gave me the list of the books.
Yes. And then I said, I want you to
summarize each one of these books and tell me what were the
top three lessons from these topbooks ever written on finding,
(40:44):
keeping love. And then it's, and then check.
And once it works in seconds. So then Chat ChatGPT came back
and #1 by far as you could probably guess was these books
talked about communication and the important, the importance of
being to the importance of articulating an idea and having
someone to receive the idea. But this is what I think has
(41:06):
been missed in the conversation about communication.
Great personalities. To me it's about the ability to
resolve conflict, yes. That's.
Really what the personality is about, because you can say a
relationship is purely about joy, which I think it's
definitely about joy, but many of us could also look at a
(41:30):
relationship and say it's also aplace of growth, yes.
And. If a relationship is a place of
growth, it must mean it's a place of discomfort, because you
can't have growth without discomfort.
And if it's a place of discomfort, that means it's a
place of disagreement. And if it's a place of
disagreement, that means it's going to be a place of conflict.
(41:56):
There's going to be. Conflict inevitable, are you?
That means. But if it is, if it is, you need
to have communication to resolvethe conflict.
Yes. And and to me, that's what
having great, you know, or I should say great complementary
personalities is all that's right.
That's the reason why it's so important.
That's right. And in.
Your book you, you do go througha lot about this and I think
(42:20):
it's not about finding somebody that's exactly like you, because
that is probably not going to work, but it's it's finding
something that'll compliment you.
I think about myself, I was I was trying to think about
because you you use Carl Young'smodel of personality types in
your book and I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, OK, and I
have to and I, I really want to dive into that a little bit more
to actually pinpoint. I think I'm a few, I think I'm,
(42:43):
I'm definitely like a little bitof AI don't know mixed with
controller and promoter. So we are out of time.
I can't believe this, Paul, but I and I wanted to talk for I
want to talk about another hour about like you, you and you and
Jill have this amazing thing called 10 lessons about
marriage. And I just want to ask you to
(43:05):
come back on our show and we cantalk about that because we
talked about the finding and we talked about the keeping.
Because I think when you implement these like these
principles that we just talked about when you're looking for a
mate, this gives you so much better chance of finding and
finding somebody that you can actually be with long term.
Really. I mean, it's so, so important.
(43:29):
So I think we covered, but then next time we talk, I really want
to go into the keeping love and how you do that long term
because you've been with your wife for over 21 years.
Is that right? Yeah.
Oh yeah. It's. 20/22/22 years.
Wow, yeah, that's that's just beautiful.
And and yeah, just you're such agreat teacher and a great mentor
and all around great guys. So thank you so much, Paula, for
(43:51):
our time. I appreciate it.
But but. But Robin, there's one question
I have to ask you. You didn't give me the the the
Rachel. Oh my God, I didn't.
Give you the Rachel story. OK.
So yeah, we are similar in the fact that we changed careers.
I was, I mean, I've, I've had different careers in my life.
I sold medical supplies for many, many years, loved it.
I became a realtor and then I had my first daughter and I took
(44:13):
a year to be with her. And then I was like, OK, I'm
going back into the workforce. And I was like, I don't want to
do that again. So I thought, you know what?
I'm going to do something different.
And my twin brother, he's like, Robin, I think you should become
a matchmaker. Like, who the hell thinks of
that? I feel like it was out of
nowhere, like out of left field.I said to Reese, I was like, are
you crazy? Like, what are you talking
(44:34):
about? He's like, I think you would
love it. I think you just go into it,
Just look into it. So I did my research and I found
Rachel. I, you know, I'm like, I'm going
to learn from the best of the best.
That's the only way to do this. If I'm going to enter a new
career, I better interview different people that are doing
really well in this and see if this might be a good path for
me. And so I did, She was one top on
my list. I interviewed actually quite a
(44:55):
few matchmakers, mostly out of the states.
And Rachel said you need to cometo Denver and take my
matchmaking boot camp. So I did that and, and then I
went to, I went and joined the matchmaking Institute with Lisa
Clampett. And anyways, I studied and I
took, you know, went, I did, I did the whole thing.
I felt like I went to back to school for two years, started my
own practice as a matchmaker andlove coach and did that for, for
(45:18):
many years before entering into this, this side of the love
business. But it's so we have, we have, we
have Rachel in common and I loveher so much.
And Lisa? And Lisa.
And Lisa. Lisa is.
So great. So it's a it's a beautiful world
being in this business. I really, I get to meet people
like you and and talk about what's really important, which
(45:42):
is our relationships. There's nothing more important.
No, nothing. Nothing more important.
Amen. I mean every I've been saying
Amen. It's everything that that you
said. I completely I completely agree.
Completely agree. I hope you enjoy the rest of
your day. Thank you.
It's been an honor. Thank you.
(46:02):
So. Much for being here with us,
Let's Talk Love is brought to you by Real Love Ready and
hosted by Robin Ducharme. If you'd like to keep learning
with us, visit realloveready.comfor more resources and tools to
boost your relational skills andget better at love.
If this podcast has resonated with you, it would mean the
world to us if you could take just 30 seconds to do these
(46:23):
three things. Follow or subscribe.
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We at Real Love Ready acknowledge and express
(47:07):
gratitude for the Coach Salish people, the stewards of the land
on which we work and play, and encourage you to take a moment
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on as well. Many blessings and much love.
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