February 5, 2025 • 62 mins
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Here on Let's Talk to Animals, we are champions of animal communication any way it can happen. This week on the podcast, we explore a unique and vital facet of interspecies communication with Pete Campione, author of Canine Conversations and owner of Kindred Souls Canine Center.
In this episode, Pete and I explore topics like these (and so much more!):
🌟 Why the word "training" can be so misleading to dog parents
🌟 The one thing you should absolutely do before adopting a new dog
🌟 How Pete began to understand his gift and talent for working with dogs
🌟 The impact of breeding for select behavior or appearance on companion canine temperament, personality and behavior
🌟 The importance of matching energies to gaining a dog's trust
🌟 What enduring childhood trauma and abuse has contributed to Pete's special way with special needs dogs as well as pet and working dogs
About Pete: Pete's lifelong love affair with dogs began in boyhood. During his rocky growing up years, Pete developed a seeming sixth sense that helped him gentle and socialize dogs even in the most intimidating of situations. Today, he works with dog lovers around the world, sharing insights into how to perceive each dog's unique personality and needs for beautiful behavior and healthy interspecies family bonds. Reach out to Pete at https://www.ksk9.com and find his book Canine Conversations on Amazon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shannon Cutts (00:00):
Welcome to let's Talk to Animals.
My name is Shannon, I'm yourfriendly neighborhood hostess
for the podcast that all speciescan enjoy together and, as you
know, every episode is different.
We've been highlighting alittle bit pet reincarnation,
pet anxiety, pet highsensitivity, and it seemed just
a natural fit when I received anemail from Pete Campione's
(00:22):
press team and they mentionedhis book, canine Conversations,
and it only took me like twoseconds to realize that Pete
would be a perfect fit for ourshow because he has this deep
empathic sensitivity with dogsin particular and, I suspect,
with all animals.
But he fosters these intuitive,deep, whole heart, kindred,
(00:48):
soul, two-way conversations, andisn't that what we are all
about here.
So I'm just going to give a verybrief introduction to Pete, our
guest of honor today, and he'sgot a canine companion and of
course, if you hear any chirps,I've got my usual sidekick, miss
(01:10):
Petal the cockatiel.
We're very animal friendly here, so you just never know who's
going to show up.
I'll just give you a littlebackground.
I just finished his book,canine Conversations, and
absolutely loved hisheart-centered approach to
species equality and I won't sayany more about that, I will
just let him tell you about it.
I love the name of his center,kindred Souls.
Pete Campione (01:34):
Oddly, the name Kindred Souls sort of just
flowed out.
Many years ago I was living inFlorida and I was apprenticing
as a dog trainer.
And I was living in Florida andI was apprenticing as a dog
trainer and I was laying in bedand I was reading a magazine and
there was a contest and theywanted me to write a paragraph
(01:54):
and I had my dog, Jake, layingthere and so I had to write a
little paragraph about myrelationship with him and it
just came out of my mouth.
You know, I said Jake, he's mykindred soul.
And as soon as I heard thewords I'm like kindred soul,
kindred soul, that's a lyric,that's the name, that's going to
(02:18):
be the name of my school and itstopped.
It was perfect because, frankly, there's no other species on
the planet that has this sort ofintimate relationship with
humans that dogs have maintainedthis long.
So it just fit it just.
You know, it just fit perfectly.
Shannon Cutts (02:39):
So interesting because I had a very similar
experience when I was naming myprevious business and I was just
having a casual conversationwith somebody and all of a
sudden the name of the businessjust popped out and we just feel
that heart click right.
Yep, it's like we just got alittle.
Download it feels right.
Pete Campione (02:58):
It's an intuitive thing, you know.
I mean, maybe that's how,that's how writers work, is they
just?
You know, something just comesand it sparks.
Now because of that I justcarry a pad around and when I
think of something I just Iwrite it down really quick so it
resonates, and then I know Imay not be able to use it now
(03:20):
but I'll use it later.
Now but I'll use it later.
But Kindred Souls was soperfect because of all the dog
training school names, it justnothing encompassed my
philosophy and approach, the waythe word Kindred Souls is
because captures ourrelationships with canines.
(03:43):
There is nothing like it innature.
So it just, you know, and, likeI said, it's a shift with the
philosophy, it was just perfect.
Shannon Cutts (03:53):
Well, it resonated with me as well.
I do feel like my interspeciesfamily is my heart family.
They are my kindred souls andalso I love what you share about
carrying a pad and pen aroundwith you.
That is one of the foundationsthat I teach inside animal
communication.
Adventure is what I callnoticing practice, and this all
(04:16):
stems from one of my favoritepoets, mary Oliver, describing
how she liked to go out andwander in the fields and often
she would find herself having torace home because a poem had
downloaded or an idea for a poemhad downloaded into her and she
wanted to race home and captureit before it got tired of
(04:36):
waiting and went on to somebodyelse who was more ready to
receive it.
So having that present moment,focus to notice what's right in
front of us and I suspect thatis probably one of the keys to
your success in training as well, because of course, there's so
many different definitions ofthe word training and I'd like
to start there.
(04:56):
I don't have too many trainerson.
Let's Talk to Animals.
Your special focus really singsto my heart, especially with
your trauma background and anobvious deep empathic streak,
and so I'd love to start there.
Of course, you've written abook called Canine Conversations
, so in your approach totraining, I'd love to hear you
(05:19):
share more about what that wordmeans to you and just how you
approach it.
Pete Campione (05:25):
Well, oddly enough, I avoid the word
training as much as possible,because to me it's not training,
it's communicate, to me it'sbehaviorism, it's not training.
Training is so lacking inpersonality and individuality.
(05:47):
Training I associate withmethodologists, people who have
one size fits all, that's.
You know, everybody do this,everybody do this, everybody do
this, and that's not my approach.
So I avoid.
To me training is reallyeffective communication.
(06:09):
So I would rather just call iteffective communication.
If you're effectivelycommunicating with the dog and
you're communicating on a levelwhere the dog understands you,
you understand the dog, andyou're working in synchronicity,
it's, you know you work intandem.
Training sort of involves, youknow it's to me very old style.
(06:31):
You know training where there's, you know, the sergeant and the
private.
You know it's very militaryalmost.
To me this is more of anevolving relationship and
evolving communication.
So I don't espouse to any.
I don't like labels.
(06:51):
I, like you know the freedom ofcommunication because in every
situation it's going to bedifferent.
So training, you know sort oflimits.
Training is limiting,communication is universal.
Shannon Cutts (07:07):
And that's the challenge, right, that's the
challenge we both face in ourwork is describing what we do
and making it individual, whilestill allowing for some
structure.
Pete Campione (07:18):
I avoided the word training in the name of the
school.
This was actually Kindred SoulsCanine Center.
It's not Kindred Souls TrainingCenter, because training, when
you're dealing with dogs whohave disabilities, when you're
dealing with special needs dogs,when you're dealing with
individuals, the behavior comesfirst.
(07:39):
So that's why the concept of acenter is inclusion.
You know it's more inclusivefor everyone.
You know it's not just okay,everybody sit, everybody lay
down, everybody sit.
No, it's way more inclusive ofwhat do you need, what does this
dog need, what does this familyneed to do to speak to this dog
(08:03):
?
It's again center involves thephilosophy.
Shannon Cutts (08:08):
I love the idea of a center I use the word
circle in a similar way, I thinkand just the idea of this
species, equality and mutualrespect and coming together and
actually learning from andteaching one another by example
and with the vulnerability ofshowing up, recognizing.
I'm coming here asking for help, I don't know what I'm doing.
(08:29):
That's a big deal, especiallyin today's culture.
Pete Campione (08:33):
It's odd because people come in and they say I
don't know what I'm doing, whichis odd to me because would you
buy a car before you learn todrive?
Would you buy a house beforeyou looked at it?
It's amazing to me that peoplewill take on a living thing and
(08:55):
know so little about it beforethey invite it into their home
for what could be many, manyyears.
Now your cockatiel can live 25to 30 years.
I actually used to do, while Iwas doing dogs, I was also doing
parrot behavior and I have anEleanor cockatoo sitting right
next to me, so I did birdbehavior.
(09:18):
But it's a complete differentmindset.
The brain function is different, but again, it's just searching
for that pathway tocommunication.
You can have just as muchcommunication with a turtle, but
it has to be a turtle talk.
(09:38):
You don't treat everything thesame.
You honor, you have to honorthe individuality.
Shannon Cutts (09:46):
Yep, and we have two turtles in this family, so
you are singing to my heart.
So I've got a red-footedtortoise and I've got a
three-toed eastern hybrid boxturtle rescue.
Pete Campione (09:58):
Wow.
Shannon Cutts (09:58):
We have a standard wire-haired dachshund
who has has yes, he's become areal teaching assistant for my
animal communication students.
Pete Campione (10:11):
So that's I've been dachshund rescue for over
20 years.
Shannon Cutts (10:16):
Well, your very first story in your book was
about a dachshund.
Pete Campione (10:19):
Yes, it's like okay, this is my guy yeah, I
mean, I had a dog last nightnamed Charlie, and Charlie's a
rescue and one of the mostbrilliant little dachshunds I've
ever seen and very, very brightlittle dogs.
But, again, unique.
And you know, even if you havefive dachshunds in a room,
(10:40):
they're all going to be uniqueentities.
They're all going to be uniqueentities.
This is the thing that I tryand get my clients to understand
about their dogs, because I getso many people who come in and
go.
Well, my last dog did this.
Okay, doesn't matter, but I'vehad golden retrievers before.
(11:04):
It did not go like this,doesn't matter, but I've had
golden retrievers before.
It didn't act like this,doesn't matter.
This is a unique entity.
This is why research on dogs isso difficult.
We infect them.
The second we touch them, ourinfluence over them, changes who
they are.
That's why, when I deal withdogs, I have to see who's the
(11:27):
family.
Does the family affect who thedog is?
The family creates the dog.
The dog is a pack animal.
The dog comes into this worldwith the instinct of who is the
leader?
What are the rules?
How do I survive?
And how they survive is byknowing the leader and knowing
(11:47):
the rules, but they're going tobe fluid in each dog.
If I'm dealing with a blind dog, the rules are going to be
different.
If I'm dealing with a dog withPTSD, the rules are going to be
different.
So you know it's honoring thespecies.
(12:10):
I always tell people do you havebrothers or sisters?
Yes, are you like either one ofyour brother?
And 80% of them say no.
Then why would you judge thispoor dog against your last five?
I'm on right now my thirdDoberman and my sixth Australian
Shepherd.
Neither one are like any oftheir predecessors, and my
(12:35):
latest Australian Shepherd isactually the genetic niece of my
last Australian shepherdNothing alike.
My assistant has her brother,nothing alike.
You honor the individual justas you do with people.
They get the same response andthey feel that when you
(12:57):
communicate, that ease ofcommunication comes from the
acknowledgement of that specialself that they are and they can
feel that it's all energy.
It's really all energy.
Shannon Cutts (13:12):
It's so interesting that you share that,
of course.
We've had five dachshunds inour family to date, and I can
attest to the fact that theyhave been nothing alike.
The last two have come from thesame breed lines.
We're talking moon and sun here.
Could not be more different,and deep down inside of
ourselves, we are all walkingaround as islands too, and many
(13:35):
of us carry with us, whetherwe're aware of it or maybe open
enough to share it or not, butwe carry the trauma of not being
recognized as such.
And so a lot of our behavior itfeels like with our animals is
an act of my heart is in theright place.
But my head is stuck in thepast.
(13:56):
My head is saying but thatpattern worked with this other
situation over here.
We're not present, Just like youwere sharing as we opened up
with your pen and your notebook,being aware of what's coming
through, what kind of intuitiveguidance, what kind of ideas are
coming through in the moment,and you mentioned in your book.
So of course I hope you don'tmind me sharing it, but you have
a background in trauma.
Many, many people who are drawnto keep company with animals,
(14:20):
and certainly many of mystudents and me as well.
We come from somewhat of atrauma background, to varying
degrees and in different ways itopens our hearts, but our heads
don't know how to follow along.
So our heart's in the rightplace, but we don't know what to
do with this impulse that wehave had to help someone else.
(14:42):
And I would imagine that'swhere you come in.
Pete Campione (14:45):
Well it starts.
I always say it starts with theheart and then goes to the head
.
Had to help someone else and Iwould imagine that's where you
come in.
Well it starts.
I always say it starts with theheart and then goes to the head
.
Yeah, you know, especially whenpeople acquire a dog, they
start with their heart and thenit goes up to the head and it's
like oh wait, a minute.
I didn't know that For me.
I had no idea why I could dowhat I did until I had to coin
(15:07):
Oprah an aha moment.
There was a movie out manyyears ago called Buck, about the
original horse whisperer, butyou've seen it.
Is that movie not brilliant?
Shannon Cutts (15:19):
So good Okay.
Pete Campione (15:21):
That was my story .
That's when I finally realizedwhy I could do what I did.
I never understood it.
I always had this confidencearound animals and I could
always hear things and I alwaysjust instinctively knew what to
do.
And until I saw that movie itwas explained to me.
(15:46):
A lot of us who deal withanimals are broken, are damaged,
and it's almost as though theanimals are our way out.
They're almost okay, couldn'tfix me, but I can fix them, I
understand them.
And this puts especially for me, it puts me in the position of
(16:09):
okay, look, I look at a dog andit's like I got your back.
Okay, now, I just got to getyour parents to understand what
you're saying.
But I got it, I get it.
And a lot of times they'll lookat me and go oh, you know me.
And there's just thisconnection and I've had it since
(16:29):
I was a kid.
But it was never clear.
You develop as an abused kid.
You develop heightened sensesof awareness to surroundings.
Your sensory is fight or flight.
So you have to be aware of asituation like that, immediately
(16:53):
assess, diagnose, figure out toavoid the abuse.
So I never realized I was doingthis and that's how quickly I
was able to then figure out whatwas going on with an animal,
because I hadn't been honingthis skill to protect myself.
Yeah, so it just channeled.
(17:15):
And then when I saw the movieand I listened to Buck's story,
I was like, oh well, then that'sit.
Now it makes sense.
Yeah, it just became clear.
I mean, I remember as a kid mygrandmother had a dog.
My father would never let mehave a dog.
I was not allowed a dog.
(17:41):
When I grew up in Brooklyn wewere not no pets, no pets, and I
was the loneliest kid on theblock but, god forbid, I should
have a pet.
But anyway, my grandmotheralways had a dog.
And I remember one particularincident.
It was Easter, the whole familywas there.
Dog had grabbed a bone and washiding under a table and
growling and all the adults werelike no, no, no, I'll do it, no
, I'll do it, no, I'll do it.
And I was like I'll, the dog'sname was frisky, it was a
(18:04):
springer spaniel and I knew thedog I'd spent.
So I said I, I'll do it.
And everybody was like, oh, no,no, no, you'll get bit, oh, no,
you'll get bit.
And I just ignored him.
I went over, I went over.
I took it out of his mouth.
End of story.
He knew me, I knew him and heknew I was not afraid.
Our energy matched.
Everybody in that room wasafraid and working on a
(18:27):
different head level.
I was working on his level andit just managed.
I had dogs.
When I finally got my first dog,I never understood and I wrote
about that in the book Joshua,my first dog.
I didn't understand.
He was the best trainedoff-leash dog.
(18:48):
I didn't know what I was doing.
I was just talking to him, Iwas parenting, I was parenting,
I said it, I followed through.
We had.
He understood.
You have to take the time to letthem understand.
So, like I said, it seemedinstinctual to me.
(19:10):
You know, and it's the samething almost when I deal with an
autistic child.
I had an autistic child in myclass and it was in the middle
of class and the child washaving a meltdown and the mother
was beside herself and she saidno, no, no, I have to get him
out and I said wait, no, and Istopped and I said wait a minute
(19:33):
and I went over to the childand I said look at me and I got
him to focus and he looked at myeyes and within five minutes I
had him looking at a coloringbook.
It's.
You have to make yourself openif somebody is going to let you
in, so you've got to be open inorder for them to be open.
And it works with kids, itworks with dogs, it works with
(19:57):
people and I think I wear myheart on my sleeve and the dog
can feel that.
And it works with kids, itworks with dogs, it works with
people, and I think I wear myheart on my sleeve and the dog
can feel that.
It's like oh no, I'm not fakingit, I'm real, I'm not.
And dogs what I love about dogsis their total honesty.
They do not have the part ofthe brain that is abstract, so
(20:20):
they can't have abstract thoughtand lying is abstract.
That's why, when people tell me, well, I just took my dog for a
walk and he's still hyperactive, I said he's being honest, the
walk was not enough.
He's not lying to you.
They can't.
So you know, and I believe,through their life with us and
(20:44):
their history with us, dogs haveevolved.
I believe their brain function.
That's the only research that Itrust is physiological research
.
Yes, and they have looked at thebrains of dogs now and they are
seeing parts of the brain thatdid not function before are
functioning, and that's becausethey lived with us.
(21:06):
They're evolving with us, so wehave to allow for that.
That's why what I did 10 yearsago in my practice I'm not doing
today.
I evolve every day.
Yes, you know, people will sayto me well, you used to do this,
well, that's yesterday, anddifferent dog, different time.
Shannon Cutts (21:26):
You learn you grow, add skills to your toolkit
.
I always remind my animalcommunication students if any of
you are listening to thisepisode that we must be honest
with the animals because if weare not honest they can feel it
and they will not trust us andthey will not open up.
They are capable of withholdingand they are capable of
protecting themselves and so,even if we're having an off day,
(21:49):
when we're communicating it'simportant to be able to say I'm
sorry, I'm just having a bad day, can you please just bear with
me, or I'm sorry.
I'm really nervous about havingthis communication conversation
, this practice session with you, because I'm afraid I'm going
to get it wrong.
And just be honest about whatwe're feeling.
Then the animal understands.
If we're in physical proximity,I believe our pheromones change
(22:11):
the chemical messengers thatwe're sending out change, Even
if we're at a distance throughthe quantum field.
the sensory signature of honestyis it needs no translation.
Pete Campione (22:33):
No, and I honestly believe also there is a
certain empathy and a certainempathic process going on,
because the dog can sensewhether it's through smell or
whether it's through energy,whether you are faking it or
whether it's through energy,whether you are faking it or
whether you're serious.
And you can't do that with ananimal, you don't.
There's no faking it with them,because they're pure honesty.
They're pure honesty.
(22:53):
There is no.
I love when people say my dogis being stubborn.
Stubborn is a concept andstubborn is a learned behavior.
It's not a DNA behavior, it's alearned behavior.
Your dog can't be stubborn ifyou don't let it be stubborn.
The thing is, to an extent youtap into nature, because nature
(23:16):
does have a thread when it comesto canines, but then you have
to break down into individualsand more and more and more until
you know you're there Because,like I said, dogs have evolved.
Dogs have come further in theirbrain function and in what they
(23:38):
do.
They are losing more and moreof that old DNA and creating new
DNA and we have to be consciousof that.
If we bring them into our livesfor 15 years and what's amazing
to me is sometimes people willonly talk to their dogs an hour
(24:00):
a day, 15 minutes a day.
They come home from work high.
I'm constantly talking to mydogs.
It starts from day one and Iguess that's also because of
what I do.
But my newest dog, louie, myDoberman, is only nine months.
I'm constantly taking him outin front of my class and saying
okay, louie doesn't know this,let me show you how to do this.
(24:23):
And the next thing I know, Itell Louie what to do and he
does it.
And I'm like what the hell?
Where did you get it?
He just knows.
And this is where that bodylanguage.
See, dogs are nonverbal.
So everything matters to a dogVisual, sensory, smell.
(24:47):
They're nonverbal.
There are no words in theirhead.
We teach language and teachinglanguage is an equation.
Instruction, followthrough-through, repetition,
consistency equals behavior.
So you have to follow thatequation.
You can't leave something outor the dog can't learn because
(25:08):
they have no words.
So they're memorizing as theygo.
That's their nature.
Survivalism in a dog dictatesmemorize everything and,
depending on the kind of dog youhave, that's where you get into
different brain function.
Shannon Cutts (25:23):
Well, because it feels like we've tinkered with
their DNA, especially withcertain purebred breed lines.
We've changed their leg length,we've changed their genetic
structure, we've emphasizedcertain traits, we de-emphasized
others.
Whether we know it or not, weseem fearless about tinkering
with canine DNA, even if wedon't understand what all the
genes do.
(25:43):
And then we wonder why thisbreed of dog doesn't behave like
that breed of dog and why theycan't seem to adapt to our
expectations and our goals.
We rewired them, in a sense.
Pete Campione (25:57):
We did.
We not only rewired them, butthen we rewired them and then
kept rewiring and unfortunately,as function started to
dissipate in dogs, we didn'tadapt that function and redirect
(26:18):
it.
So I get people with who bringme huskies, and I've actually
heard the phrase can't you trainit not to be so active?
All right, I'm like, are youkidding me?
No, no, that's like sayingcan't you get the spots off of
my Dalmatian or can't you makemy dachshund shorter?
(26:40):
You know, no, you need to knowbeforehand what you're getting.
You know, I always tell peopledo you buy your car because it's
red or do you buy the carbecause it's a good car and fits
your needs?
That's human arrogance.
Shannon Cutts (26:58):
And the other thing that really, really gets
highlighted for me and I think,infuses the passion that I have
for teaching animalcommunication, which is a
sensory language.
It's our birth language, it'sour original language, it's the
language that we possessedbefore we learned the words and
the formulas, as you said, andthe codes and the programs, for
(27:20):
if you put a noun with a verband an adjective and then
another noun, that's called asentence and at the end of it
there's something calledpunctuation and that can change
the emphasis of it.
But before we learned any ofthat and the adults around us
got so excited that we werelearning it and encouraged us to
forget about our birthrightlanguage.
We all had this sensorylanguage and it's really hooked
(27:42):
into our fight or flightsurvival system, and so a lot of
times it's a process of wakingup, and for me the word empath
translates to mean to feel as ifwe're literally to suffer with.
And when I look at my cockatielor my red-footed tortoise, who's
supposed to be in the junglesand grasslands of South America,
or our dachshund, who's awire-haired working dog breed
(28:05):
mom won't listen to this podcast, so I can freely say what were
you thinking, and I look at themand I look around at our
artificial world, artificiallighting, our artificial seasons
, our artificial schedules, ourcrazy little electronic pets
that are competing for ourattention, and I think, don't
you feel the frustration and theconfusion of an animal who has
(28:26):
millennia of wiring?
Before we were even a gleam inthe eye of the primordial soup
as Homo sapiens, the prototypesfor all of our companion animals
were already up and running anddoing probably fairly well
without us, and now we bringthem into our artificial world
and expect them to just get it.
And it's like no, they really,really, really don't so much of
(28:49):
the way that we live.
Our DNA hasn't even caught upyet.
Our DNA hasn't even caught upwith our technology.
We get into stress and anxietyand PTSD and trauma because we
feel like we can't cope with ourworld.
Well then, how is our animalsupposed to cope?
Well?
Pete Campione (29:05):
we've taken a highly social, pack-oriented
animal that's very much got asocial structure like our own
and then we bring them into ourhome and we don't allow them to
be part of the social structure.
And I think this is why peoplesay to me your dogs listen.
(29:25):
So it's because they're myfamily.
They're always with me, they'realways we move together.
Even if it's just I'm going outto my training building, the
dogs come with me.
It's a pack, there's a dynamicand you have to honor that and a
lot of dogs don't.
It's kind of like if you playedpiano and you didn't practice.
(29:50):
If you don't keep yourcommunication with your dog
consistent and constant, they'regoing to lose that concept of
communication.
First you teach it and you say,hey, look, we're talking here,
we're going back and forth andonce you have that, that's
opened the door to limitlesspossibilities.
(30:14):
But you have to keep it up, youhave to maintain it and it.
And it's funny because you, indoing that, certain dogs are
more prone to communication thanothers.
Your dachshunds, for example,are a highly independent breed
and but that's DNA, because theyare the only, the only ter and
(30:40):
they're part of the terrierfamily.
They are the only subgroup ofdogs that was bred to work, hunt
and kill independently.
They do it on their own.
Every other sporting dog workswith someone, not them.
They work on their own.
So what does that mean to thehuman?
Well, if I'm going tocommunicate to that dog, I have
(31:02):
to tap into prey drive, I haveto tap into what I have to allow
that dog to be independent.
You don't push a dachshund, youdon't push you nudge.
Dachshunds have to think it'stheir idea.
So that's where schmoozingcomes in and I love that.
I love their personalities.
(31:25):
To me that's character.
I enjoy that.
I enjoy a dog that looks at meand goes yeah, mate, you know I
like that because it's back andforth.
You know I like that becauseit's back and forth, it's
communication and it's like wework it out.
Yeah, ok, there's no rule foremotion, as much as there is
(31:48):
parenting.
I mean you don't get angry whenyou teach.
You don't get angry when a dogmakes a mistake.
You fix it.
You have to let them knowyou're supporting, not punishing
, because they feel that there'sa difference.
Then they're able to take oh,you wanted this, not that, and
it's less offensive, it's morelikely to stick if they believe
(32:14):
it.
That's why, when I work withdogs who have severe fear issues
, I let the dog make thedecision.
Are you ready for me yet?
Are you ready to come out?
Are you ready to do this?
I got a kiss last night from adog who made me cry, from a
Malinois who was shut down.
I had said to the owner, I said, before that dog leaves here,
(32:36):
that dog is going to wag itstail and that dog's going to
give me a kiss.
Sure enough, last night the doggraduated and I'm going to cry
now and the dog wagged its tailand gave me the kiss and I swear
on my mother.
I heard the words thank you.
Of course you did.
I heard the words thank you.
I get it, and it could be me, Idon't know, but that's what I
(33:03):
hear.
The story in my book aboutMartin.
Martin was the reason for thebook, because here was this
German shepherd who spent hislife in a concentration camp and
after all the work I did, justfor no reason jumped in my lap,
knocked my glasses off, showeredme with kisses and all I kept
(33:24):
hearing was thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank
you, thank you.
You know, the owner was intears.
She said that dog has neverdone that before and that to me
was a proactive communicationfrom the dog.
There was signs will say dogsonly do things to get something.
That dog got nothing from me.
That dog was thanking me.
(33:45):
There was nothing.
That dog got out of thatsituation and that's where this
whole concept of what I do comesin, because I do believe that
their part of the brain thatfeels is growing.
That was proactivecommunication.
That dog wasn't begging for atreat, that dog was saying thank
(34:07):
you.
That dog came to me.
So you know it's and I justfind it fascinating.
I find it absolutelyfascinating.
I mean, I am so lucky andblessed to do what I love.
Shannon Cutts (34:21):
Sure, yeah, I feel the same way and I do feel
blessed that most of the humananimals who cross my path and
maybe you can resonate with thisas well despite some of the
frustrating experiences, themajority of human animals who
cross my path crave a deeper,closer connection and often
(34:45):
crave permission to open up, tofeel more, to stop and be more,
rather than this doing, doing,doing that.
Our culture seems to encouragethis domestication, as Don
Miguel Ruiz, one of my mentors,talks about, where we're just
achieving more and consumingmore.
It's like, no, I want to bewith my dog because I feel
(35:09):
better when we're together, butit's like then, making space for
it, making time for it andrecognizing what does my dog
need in order for it to be apositive experience for both of
us.
And a lot of times that comesback to recognizing that we
don't really understand ourwiring.
There's a huge part of the newanimal communication adventure
program that I'm developing thatactually talks about the
(35:31):
neurobiology, of what makestwo-way interspecies
communication possible.
In other words, what do allthese bells and whistles do?
And I don't know if you findthat in your dog communication
program, if you find that aswell.
Pete Campione (35:42):
Interspecies communication possible, in other
words, what?
Shannon Cutts (35:44):
do all these bells and whistles do?
And I don't know if you findthat in your dog communication
program.
If you find that as well, thathumans who come in maybe, who
are locked down or emotionallydistant or traumatized
themselves or judging themselvesor they've have been judged by
someone else, why can't you justcontrol your animal?
What's wrong with you that youcan't train this dog?
And they come in and maybethrough experiencing the work
that you do and seeing adifferent model of how humans
(36:05):
and dogs can cohabitate together, maybe they start to open up as
well.
I think there was a part in yourbook where you talk about
experiencing and this is a hugepart of my work and it's a
passion project for me.
I call it soul agreements, butI loved how you shared that you
had met a dog that you just feltlike was an old soul, like
their natural teacher.
(36:26):
So some of these dogs, maybethey come through and they have
trauma and the job is to dragtheir human to come and meet you
so that they can start to openup.
Does that resonate at all?
Because I find that sometimeswith my students.
Pete Campione (36:41):
When I take a dog from an owner and the dog say
that the owner is having troublecommunicating and getting the
dog to follow the instruction orto follow their teaching, I
take the dog and the dog listensto me on the first time and the
owner looks at me and I it'snot magic.
(37:02):
I said I was clearlycommunicated.
I said, look, and this is whereI try to empower the students
and empower the dog families tounderstand, don't you see, if
your dog will do it with me,think of how much it wants to do
(37:22):
it with you.
But you're not communicatingand getting into the dog's heart
and soul.
So they believe you.
The dog believes me.
It doesn't believe you.
Yet and this is where I have tojuggle and say look, the dog
needs more from you.
He's saying that you give himmore.
(37:46):
When a dog does something for me, I'm showing you the
possibility of what it can dofor you.
That's a good thing.
People are always like, oh well, sure, you're the trainer, he
got no.
But I'm showing you that thisis what your dog can do for you.
And I've had many people cometo me and say I am so, so much
(38:10):
happier around my dog now thatmy dog listens and of course,
that always brings on thewaterworks for me, because I
always look at an arc.
I look at how a dog comes inand how a dog leaves, and I've
had dogs literally hiding underchairs the first week and at the
(38:30):
end they're walking out,wagging their tail and jumping
on everybody and that's likefull circle.
But the process is getting thepeople to understand.
The dog will tell you what theyneed.
If you listen, the dog tellsyou I need this.
The dog tells you if you'redoing something right, you have
(38:52):
to listen.
That's part of my job.
I've always been able to hearwhat they need.
You know getting people to lookat what they're doing.
They're telling you if you'redoing it right.
The dog will never lie.
If you're giving them enough,they're going to give it back to
you.
If you're not giving themenough, they can't give it back
to you.
It's got to be equal.
(39:13):
It's like playing tennis youhit the ball to them, they hit
it right back.
Shannon Cutts (39:18):
And it's got to be reassuring for your students,
for your human students, tohave somebody in their life who
can help them simplify what hasbecome probably, in their head,
a very complicated problem.
Pete Campione (39:35):
And what I find is the relief of and the rewards
of that communication, becausethen they're able to enjoy the
dog before they communicate.
It's this disconnect and thisadversarial, almost adversarial
quality to their relationship.
(39:57):
And then when somebody leavesand said it's such a pleasure to
bring my, I can bring my dogplaces, now he can go with me.
I said, well, that's.
I always open up by tellingpeople the first night of a
class your dogs are a member ofyour family and should be able
to go anywhere with you thatyou're invited.
(40:18):
Your dog should be able to goand my job is to get your dog in
a position to go with you.
And that way you're creatingthat whole path, because they
are social beings, they're justlike us, without the words.
Without the words.
Shannon Cutts (40:35):
Couldn't have said it better.
And I love both.
I love the synergy between thework that I do and the work that
you do, because I feel like somany of our animals, definitely
our dogs, our cats, our parrots,our turtles.
Even we put them in theposition of having to learn and
memorize as many human words andtheir approximate meanings as
(40:58):
they can to try to communicatewith us, because we're not
meeting them at least halfway byreconnecting with our sensory
language.
Curious, do?
Pete Campione (41:07):
you feel that intuitiveness is instinctual or
learned, or a combination ofboth.
It's both.
Shannon Cutts (41:18):
It comes hardwired.
I call it the iOS, theintuitive operating system.
It's hardwired into our fightor flight.
It's like a traffic lightsystem.
We've all had vibes, aha moments, hunches, gut instincts do that
, don't do that, don't buy thatcar, do adopt this dog, whatever
it is.
It's like an instinct.
It's just something that weknow, and the way I describe
(41:39):
that wiring is it's somethingthat you know, that you know.
You don't know how you know it.
You didn't know it a moment ago.
Now you can't unknow it, andnothing your left brain mind
says can talk you out of knowingwhat you know.
That's intuition.
However, just like any otherpattern, just like you, so
neatly lined out for us, if wedon't use it, first of all, we
(42:01):
don't recognize what it is andwe'll never develop any real
interest in developing arelationship with it and we
won't trust it.
And then that's why, for manyof us, it only arises in deep
trauma or crisis situations.
And it's like well, somethingjust told me that this child was
trapped under a car and I wentover and I lifted it somehow.
And it's like well, somethingjust told me that this child was
trapped under a car and I wentover and I lifted it somehow and
(42:22):
it's like but that seems sorandom because we don't ever see
the smaller, everyday,intuitive, instinctual, sensory
just being able to stand in aroom and feel somebody's eyes
staring at you even thoughthey're behind you.
Something told us, and when weturn around, we're right.
What was that?
(42:43):
And getting curious, noticing,wondering, getting curious,
keeping notes, so that becomesthat structured process of
recoding it back into oureveryday way of life.
Pete Campione (42:53):
But do you agree that it's also a muscle that
needs to be flexed and workAbsolutely.
You know, because I did a lotof people who just talk to their
dogs.
When they want the dog to dosomething or when they really,
really want the dog to listen,then they take the time.
The rest of the time the dog isjust there.
Shannon Cutts (43:13):
Yeah, it's like a phone.
These have become our new pet.
Those of you who are listeningto the audio.
I just held up my smartphone.
I forget, because I'm chattingwith Pete here on video.
But yeah, we've just packed ourlives so full.
As human animals, we behave asif we're not connected to the
whole and we really don't belonghere.
We almost behave like aninvasive species when in reality
(43:34):
we are still connected.
And you touched on this.
Animals, especially dogs, haveevolved further and further away
from their function as ourpartners in work, in life, and
not so many years ago,landholders were bringing their
livestock into their homes withthem in the winter to share
warmth, to keep them alive,because they were so valuable.
(43:55):
Now, if we want to keep companywith animals most of us the
only way to really do that is toget a pet.
Pete Campione (44:01):
So by Australian shepherds.
People see them and they seehow well behaved they are and
they're highly, highly empathicdogs.
These are dogs that work at adistance.
Their brains are extremelydeveloped to high level problem
solving.
Are they good pets?
No, they're not dogs to sitaround the house all day.
(44:25):
Yeah, I didn't have my job, Iwould not have dobermans and
australian shepherds.
They are working breeds who isthe wire?
Shannon Cutts (44:34):
haired dachshund actually the wire here sitting
on the couch right now I know,but but the sense of humor.
Pete Campione (44:41):
I'm sorry, I know .
I just find it absolutelyhilarious, because when you tell
a doxin to do something, thefirst thing they do is look
around to see if anybody elsecan do it.
It's like, oh, you're talkingto me, you want me to do that?
Wait a minute.
Okay, I guess I have to do it.
No one else is here.
I love that.
I find that character.
Shannon Cutts (45:01):
It's hilarious.
Pete Campione (45:02):
It's just like who they are.
It's not good or bad, it's just.
You know.
It's no different than who I amas a person, it's just part of
us.
Shannon Cutts (45:14):
One of my mentors used to describe it as we all
just come from different pots ofenergy.
Pete Campione (45:19):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
Shannon Cutts (45:21):
So when we were chatting before I hit record,
you were mentioning that youhave actually had experiences,
have sought out experiences, inaddition to your obvious innate
ability to communicatetelepathically with dogs and
other species.
I have a.
Pete Campione (45:38):
Eleanora cockatoo .
She's a rescue.
I've had her since she was 13and we got her 20 years ago, so
she's probably 35.
Her name is Daphne and she'sbeing very quiet right now.
Shannon Cutts (45:54):
Yeah, so is my little one.
Pete Campione (45:56):
They must be connected Again to not honor an
approach when dealing with aparrot as opposed to a dog is a
different brain function.
Parrots are still notdomesticated, so you cannot just
assume that and that's againhuman arrogance.
We bring them into our home andwe expect them to just be what
(46:18):
we want them to be.
No, it doesn't work that way,but I've dealt with a lot.
There are certain dogs I've hadwhere I didn't understand
something that was going on andI would call someone like you
and I would say all right, whatthe hell is going on in this
one's head?
(46:39):
I will never forget my firstexperience, and it was with.
I had mentioned Lydia Hibby,and it was her and she was
reading my dog Jake, and all ofa sudden she said to me well,
the first thing he's saying ishe wants more cantaloupe.
What is that?
And I turned white.
(47:00):
Who says to anybody with a dogthat your dog wants more
cantaloupe?
Honest thing in the world tosay.
But sure enough, the weekbefore I had left a half a
cantaloupe on a coffee table,didn't finish eating it, Jake
grabbed it, ate it and now hewas telling her he wants more.
(47:21):
So there was no way.
That came out of nowhere.
No way, Absolutely no way.
Shannon Cutts (47:28):
And I love that because that's the exact thing
that I tell my students is, whenwe're practicing and we're
taking notes, because usuallyit's in real time, we don't want
to miss anything.
So we have this discipline oftaking notes about what the
animal is sharing and I say besure to write down the thing
that you think is too weird orcouldn't possibly be true, or
(47:49):
the the thing that isn't likeall the rest, because chances
are that's the good stuff yeah,and the other thing, the other
thing she followed that with isshe said he's tired of being
mistaken for a girl and I hadbrought him.
Pete Campione (48:02):
Every time I had brought him out, he was
beautiful, so naturallybeautiful dogs.
Oh, isn't she beautiful?
And if I heard it once a day, Iheard it 10 times a day.
And sure enough, she comesaround, she says he can't stand
that, he's tired of being calleda girl.
And I'm like, okay, I'm hooked.
Now I'm hooked.
(48:23):
But again, I've always thoughtit was like the example I gave
you before with the dog with thebone.
I could just look at his eyesand say, no, he's not going to
bother me, he's not going to,he's not going to hurt me.
And he didn't.
And I it's, I it's.
It's very funny.
People say aren't you afraid ofgetting bit?
No, they tell me, they'll tellme if they, if they're too
(48:44):
afraid for me to come in,they'll tell me.
Otherwise, I I've had dogs thathave bitten eight people and
they've curled up in my lap.
Yeah, doesn't negate the factthat they've bitten eight people
, but they didn't bite me andit's just something, it's a
feeling and I don't question it,I just accept it.
That's good.
Shannon Cutts (49:05):
That's good.
Once upon a time, sensorylanguage is the only way we had
to get our needs met.
It was the only way that we hadto survive before we learned,
whatever our birth language was,whatever our original spoken
verbal language was.
And I find this so fascinatingbecause, yes, you have this
innate ability and very key,you're very aware of it and you
(49:25):
trust it.
That's really important.
However, it also speaks to thefact that this is what I share
with my students.
I say we're never too advancedto learn something new.
We always want to come withthat empty cup and that present
moment awareness to learnsomething new.
We always want to come withthat empty cup and that present
moment awareness to learnsomething new.
We're also never too broken tohave something to share and
something to teach.
I often share with my petparent clients.
(49:47):
I say who else is on your dog'sor your cat's or your bird's
well-pet team?
We need a team.
Typically, we need a variety ofexperts that we can turn to.
It's not to say that we're onthe phone or on Zoom with them
every week, but just because I'man animal communicator doesn't
mean that I am not going to askone of my colleagues to talk
(50:12):
with my animals.
It's not unlike therapy in thatway.
Sometimes I'm too close to asituation or we're mirroring
each other because we havesimilar stuff trauma or buttons
that we're working through andso it's beautiful to have that
humility that you just expressedto say well, I'm an expert,
this comes very naturally, andyet I feel like in this
(50:32):
situation I could really use anobjective input, I could really
use some support, and that'ssomething else where I feel like
having these group classes,whether it's dog communication
or it's animal communication ingeneral or it's something else.
So often when an animalguardian or a pet parent comes
to us, they come feelingdepleted, isolated, sometimes
(50:55):
embarrassed, frustrated,humiliated, judged, and it's
like they don't know that whatthey're going through is normal
if they don't know what you or Inow know and have learned, so
it's like it's okay.
Pete Campione (51:08):
Yeah, there's trauma.
Shannon Cutts (51:09):
Yeah, there's issues, but we can work on that.
It's okay.
I'm glad you're here.
Pete Campione (51:14):
But don't you feel that it's part of your job,
as I do mine, to build theirconfidence, because your
confidence that's leading thedog.
The dog knows when you're incharge, when you're you mean it,
when you're honest, when you'reconfident.
And if somebody comes to me andlacks the confidence, I keep
(51:36):
telling them relax, have funwith it, enjoy the dog.
Build your confidence in workingwith the dog.
The dog will tell you and I get, I have so much trouble
sometimes just getting people tosmile.
Sure, I mean, I get in troublea lot because I'm from Brooklyn
and I have no filter and I can'ttell you how many times someone
(52:01):
I'm trying to I said would youplease have fun with this dog?
You look like you have to poopand you know they look at me
horrified because I've said that.
But it's the truth.
Get this grimace off your face.
Shannon Cutts (52:12):
They hired you for a reason.
They need to hear it.
Pete Campione (52:17):
Get that grimace off your face and the dog will
respond.
You think the dog doesn'tunderstand your facial cues.
The dog is looking foracceptance.
The dog wants to know did I doit, did I not do it?
And you're a blank slate.
You can't do that.
And building the owner'sconfidence, which is what you do
also then translate to moreeffective communication.
Shannon Cutts (52:41):
Absolutely, and there are a variety of tools,
just like you shared.
I'm always adding to my toolkit.
I don't do everything exactlythe same as I did three years
ago.
It's so interesting you sharethat because I have an analogy
from a few weeks ago.
This isn't a dog story, but it'sa horse story, and one of my
pet parent clients had justbrought a new horse into the
(53:02):
family and was having sometrauma what seemed to be
trauma-based behavior issues andwas feeling like she wasn't
safe, and one of her questionsfor the horse was do you trust
me to be a good leader?
And whether it's just no filter, naturally, or it's just
recognizing I am serving as theanimal's advocate, maybe the
only voice they'll ever have.
(53:22):
And I said to her, to be quitehonest with you, no, he doesn't,
because you don't trustyourself.
If you trusted yourself, youwouldn't have asked that
question.
And he's saying I know you canbe a good leader, but I don't
trust you yet.
But just like you know, I'vegot it in me to be a pretty
incredible show partner.
I know you have it in you to bea really good leader and just
(53:44):
the fact that you asked thatquestion shows me that you know
it too.
You are not there yet and so alot of times it's building that
confidence is.
I love it when one of myclients says I knew my animal
was going to say that.
When one of my clients says Iknew my animal was going to say
that, or I know that he'stelling me something or she's
(54:05):
telling me something, but I justcan't figure out what it is.
It's not totally dormantanymore, this sensory language,
but they don't know what they'reexperiencing and that can be
something really wonderful towatch somebody.
Pete Campione (54:18):
The reason sometimes that we have an
advantage is because we don'thave a history with the dog or
with the animal, whereas theanimal already has history with
the owner.
So the animal is like well, Iknow they're not going to make,
I know they don't mean it, Iknow that they're taking us at
face value, they're taking us asa new.
(54:40):
You know, I always look at itas I'm having a new conversation
with your dog right now.
So this is the first time we'remeeting.
So that dog has no reason notto take me seriously.
And it's the same with you thatyou're walking in with no
baggage.
A lot of these people that cometo us already have the baggage
(55:01):
there and they have to let thatbaggage go and look, this is the
, and to me that's the beauty ofdogs.
Dogs are so highly adaptivethat you can change and they'll
change with you.
Shannon Cutts (55:13):
You just have to have the confidence that you
change, they'll change and thechange typically is so positive
that it's like the energy isalready trying to flow in that
direction.
Pete Campione (55:24):
Yes.
Shannon Cutts (55:25):
So it's like the change.
We're not asking the change ina negative direction, we're
asking them to evolve.
That's why, for me, I callanimal communication the best
self-development program I'veever found, because we just
don't get taught about all ofthe other stuff that you and I
are talking about today.
We don't recognize that we'reso much more capable, that we
have so many more tools in ourtoolkit.
(55:46):
Nobody's ever pointed them outor taught us to use them, and by
the time we get to adulthood welack the time and the bandwidth
most of us to go searching onour own.
So when an animal comes intoour life, it's like, okay, now I
got to drop everything and Igot to make an appointment to go
see this person, or I got tohave a session, because now life
(56:07):
is really out of control.
As one of my mentors said,let's slow down to speed up,
let's just slow down.
Let's slow the pace down.
Very good, yes, slow down, takestuff off the to-do list and
we'll just focus on thepriorities and guess what?
Everything else, those smallerthings that become big things.
They just smooth themselves outbecause we've taken care of the
(56:27):
big issue, which really boilsdown to what is our relationship
like with ourself and with theones that we love, and if we
prioritize that, a lot of theother stuff just works itself
out.
Pete Campione (56:38):
a lot of the other stuff just works itself
out.
Well, I've always found that,my own experience in fact.
I tell people I say, look, youpay me, but the dog is my client
and I advocate for my client.
My client comes first and it'salmost.
You know, I bring my ownhistory into it because I never
(56:58):
had that, I never had anybody atmy back.
So it's like damn, if I'm notgoing to have that dog's back,
no matter what.
And you know, and I tell peoplesometimes I said the only thing
standing between that dog beingwell-behaved is you and I have
to meet halfway and we'll get tothe dog, but the dog will.
(57:21):
People just don't listen.
They don't, they don't listen,the dog.
And it's funny.
I use parenting a lot.
Shannon Cutts (57:30):
Yeah, I'll tell, especially mothers especially
moms.
Pete Campione (57:34):
I'll say wait a minute, you can't tell what this
dog needs.
You know when your baby iscrying, whether that means he's
hungry or he pooped his pants.
You know when they need snacks.
You know when they need to goout, you know, you know this
mother's it.
Well, you have the tools, usethem, take out the words and use
(57:56):
them.
But everybody has these skills.
Shannon Cutts (58:00):
That's brilliant and on that note, we have come
to the conclusion.
I feel like you and I arekindred souls ourselves and we
can talk about this stuff allday long, but I do not want to
leave today's episode withoutgiving you a chance to share how
people can reach out to you Now.
I know you have in-personclasses and you've got your book
, but lots of people listen tothis from all over the world, so
(58:23):
please share with everyonelistening any way in which they
can reach you, maybe receivesupport for what they're going
through with their dogs and anyparting words of encouragement
for our listening community.
Pete Campione (58:38):
As far as reaching out to me, I would
encourage everybody first toread the book, because the book
is going to open your eyes tothe possibilities.
Then you reach out to me andI'll help you get there.
But what I try and tell peopleis I go, I have nothing up my
sleeves.
It's not magic, there is nowhispering, there is no special
(59:03):
powers.
There's instinctual, there'sfeeling.
We all have it.
We just have to tap into it.
I try to let everybody know.
It is not magic, it is nature.
Okay, just get in touch withthat, get quiet, listen, but
(59:23):
anybody can do it, it's just.
And the other thing I don't, Idon't skirt people on.
Yes, it does involve work.
You do have to do the work, andI'm not saying it's always easy
, but it can be done, yes, andonce you get the core of it can
be done.
Grab on to that and run with it.
Shannon Cutts (59:44):
Fantastic and it does get easier, it gets more
intuitive, it gets more natural.
So your website is and I willput this in the show notes as
well, but it's KSK9, and that'sthe number nine dot com, and
your book is CanineConversations.
(01:00:04):
Our guest today, pete Campione,from Brooklyn, now located in
New Jersey and so honored anddelighted that you are able to
join us today.
This episode is going to besuch a blessing to our listening
audience and I so appreciatewho you are and the work that
you were able to join us today.
This episode is going to besuch a blessing to our listening
audience and I so appreciatewho you are and the work that
you do in the world.
(01:00:25):
For those of you who have foundlet's Talk to Animals podcast
for the first time, we doepisodes every other week.
You can find us over atanimallovelanguagescom backslash
podcast.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please do take the time
to leave five stars or leave ashort review, or reach out to me
(01:00:46):
, shannon, atanimallovelanguagescom, and let
me know if you have questionsabout what we talked about today
.
Please do let me know.
These episodes are shaped byyour needs and your curiosity
and I love to hear from you byyour needs and your curiosity,
and I love to hear from you.
So, pete and I are sending youour gratitude for spending a
little bit of your time with ustoday, and I look forward to
(01:01:07):
welcoming you back in two weeksfor a fresh new episode.
Okay, all my love.
Bye for now.
Welcome to let's Talk to Animals.
My name is Shannon, I'm yourfriendly neighborhood hostess
for the podcast that all speciescan enjoy together and, as you
know, every episode is different.
We've been highlighting alittle bit pet reincarnation,
pet anxiety, pet highsensitivity, and it seemed just
a natural fit when I received anemail from Pete Campione's
(00:22):
press team and they mentionedhis book, canine Conversations,
and it only took me like twoseconds to realize that Pete
would be a perfect fit for ourshow because he has this deep
empathic sensitivity with dogsin particular and, I suspect,
with all animals.
But he fosters these intuitive,deep, whole heart, kindred,
(00:48):
soul, two-way conversations, andisn't that what we are all
about here.
So I'm just going to give a verybrief introduction to Pete, our
guest of honor today, and he'sgot a canine companion and of
course, if you hear any chirps,I've got my usual sidekick, miss
(01:10):
Petal the cockatiel.
We're very animal friendly here, so you just never know who's
going to show up.
I'll just give you a littlebackground.
I just finished his book,canine Conversations, and
absolutely loved hisheart-centered approach to
species equality and I won't sayany more about that, I will
just let him tell you about it.
I love the name of his center,kindred Souls.
Pete Campione (01:34):
Oddly, the name Kindred Souls sort of just
flowed out.
Many years ago I was living inFlorida and I was apprenticing
as a dog trainer.
And I was living in Florida andI was apprenticing as a dog
trainer and I was laying in bedand I was reading a magazine and
there was a contest and theywanted me to write a paragraph
(01:54):
and I had my dog, Jake, layingthere and so I had to write a
little paragraph about myrelationship with him and it
just came out of my mouth.
You know, I said Jake, he's mykindred soul.
And as soon as I heard thewords I'm like kindred soul,
kindred soul, that's a lyric,that's the name, that's going to
(02:18):
be the name of my school and itstopped.
It was perfect because, frankly, there's no other species on
the planet that has this sort ofintimate relationship with
humans that dogs have maintainedthis long.
So it just fit it just.
You know, it just fit perfectly.
Shannon Cutts (02:39):
So interesting because I had a very similar
experience when I was naming myprevious business and I was just
having a casual conversationwith somebody and all of a
sudden the name of the businessjust popped out and we just feel
that heart click right.
Yep, it's like we just got alittle.
Download it feels right.
Pete Campione (02:58):
It's an intuitive thing, you know.
I mean, maybe that's how,that's how writers work, is they
just?
You know, something just comesand it sparks.
Now because of that I justcarry a pad around and when I
think of something I just Iwrite it down really quick so it
resonates, and then I know Imay not be able to use it now
(03:20):
but I'll use it later.
Now but I'll use it later.
But Kindred Souls was soperfect because of all the dog
training school names, it justnothing encompassed my
philosophy and approach, the waythe word Kindred Souls is
because captures ourrelationships with canines.
(03:43):
There is nothing like it innature.
So it just, you know, and, likeI said, it's a shift with the
philosophy, it was just perfect.
Shannon Cutts (03:53):
Well, it resonated with me as well.
I do feel like my interspeciesfamily is my heart family.
They are my kindred souls andalso I love what you share about
carrying a pad and pen aroundwith you.
That is one of the foundationsthat I teach inside animal
communication.
Adventure is what I callnoticing practice, and this all
(04:16):
stems from one of my favoritepoets, mary Oliver, describing
how she liked to go out andwander in the fields and often
she would find herself having torace home because a poem had
downloaded or an idea for a poemhad downloaded into her and she
wanted to race home and captureit before it got tired of
(04:36):
waiting and went on to somebodyelse who was more ready to
receive it.
So having that present moment,focus to notice what's right in
front of us and I suspect thatis probably one of the keys to
your success in training as well, because of course, there's so
many different definitions ofthe word training and I'd like
to start there.
(04:56):
I don't have too many trainerson.
Let's Talk to Animals.
Your special focus really singsto my heart, especially with
your trauma background and anobvious deep empathic streak,
and so I'd love to start there.
Of course, you've written abook called Canine Conversations
, so in your approach totraining, I'd love to hear you
(05:19):
share more about what that wordmeans to you and just how you
approach it.
Pete Campione (05:25):
Well, oddly enough, I avoid the word
training as much as possible,because to me it's not training,
it's communicate, to me it'sbehaviorism, it's not training.
Training is so lacking inpersonality and individuality.
(05:47):
Training I associate withmethodologists, people who have
one size fits all, that's.
You know, everybody do this,everybody do this, everybody do
this, and that's not my approach.
So I avoid.
To me training is reallyeffective communication.
(06:09):
So I would rather just call iteffective communication.
If you're effectivelycommunicating with the dog and
you're communicating on a levelwhere the dog understands you,
you understand the dog, andyou're working in synchronicity,
it's, you know you work intandem.
Training sort of involves, youknow it's to me very old style.
(06:31):
You know training where there's, you know, the sergeant and the
private.
You know it's very militaryalmost.
To me this is more of anevolving relationship and
evolving communication.
So I don't espouse to any.
I don't like labels.
(06:51):
I, like you know the freedom ofcommunication because in every
situation it's going to bedifferent.
So training, you know sort oflimits.
Training is limiting,communication is universal.
Shannon Cutts (07:07):
And that's the challenge, right, that's the
challenge we both face in ourwork is describing what we do
and making it individual, whilestill allowing for some
structure.
Pete Campione (07:18):
I avoided the word training in the name of the
school.
This was actually Kindred SoulsCanine Center.
It's not Kindred Souls TrainingCenter, because training, when
you're dealing with dogs whohave disabilities, when you're
dealing with special needs dogs,when you're dealing with
individuals, the behavior comesfirst.
(07:39):
So that's why the concept of acenter is inclusion.
You know it's more inclusivefor everyone.
You know it's not just okay,everybody sit, everybody lay
down, everybody sit.
No, it's way more inclusive ofwhat do you need, what does this
dog need, what does this familyneed to do to speak to this dog
(08:03):
?
It's again center involves thephilosophy.
Shannon Cutts (08:08):
I love the idea of a center I use the word
circle in a similar way, I thinkand just the idea of this
species, equality and mutualrespect and coming together and
actually learning from andteaching one another by example
and with the vulnerability ofshowing up, recognizing.
I'm coming here asking for help, I don't know what I'm doing.
(08:29):
That's a big deal, especiallyin today's culture.
Pete Campione (08:33):
It's odd because people come in and they say I
don't know what I'm doing, whichis odd to me because would you
buy a car before you learn todrive?
Would you buy a house beforeyou looked at it?
It's amazing to me that peoplewill take on a living thing and
(08:55):
know so little about it beforethey invite it into their home
for what could be many, manyyears.
Now your cockatiel can live 25to 30 years.
I actually used to do, while Iwas doing dogs, I was also doing
parrot behavior and I have anEleanor cockatoo sitting right
next to me, so I did birdbehavior.
(09:18):
But it's a complete differentmindset.
The brain function is different, but again, it's just searching
for that pathway tocommunication.
You can have just as muchcommunication with a turtle, but
it has to be a turtle talk.
(09:38):
You don't treat everything thesame.
You honor, you have to honorthe individuality.
Shannon Cutts (09:46):
Yep, and we have two turtles in this family, so
you are singing to my heart.
So I've got a red-footedtortoise and I've got a
three-toed eastern hybrid boxturtle rescue.
Pete Campione (09:58):
Wow.
Shannon Cutts (09:58):
We have a standard wire-haired dachshund
who has has yes, he's become areal teaching assistant for my
animal communication students.
Pete Campione (10:11):
So that's I've been dachshund rescue for over
20 years.
Shannon Cutts (10:16):
Well, your very first story in your book was
about a dachshund.
Pete Campione (10:19):
Yes, it's like okay, this is my guy yeah, I
mean, I had a dog last nightnamed Charlie, and Charlie's a
rescue and one of the mostbrilliant little dachshunds I've
ever seen and very, very brightlittle dogs.
But, again, unique.
And you know, even if you havefive dachshunds in a room,
(10:40):
they're all going to be uniqueentities.
They're all going to be uniqueentities.
This is the thing that I tryand get my clients to understand
about their dogs, because I getso many people who come in and
go.
Well, my last dog did this.
Okay, doesn't matter, but I'vehad golden retrievers before.
(11:04):
It did not go like this,doesn't matter, but I've had
golden retrievers before.
It didn't act like this,doesn't matter.
This is a unique entity.
This is why research on dogs isso difficult.
We infect them.
The second we touch them, ourinfluence over them, changes who
they are.
That's why, when I deal withdogs, I have to see who's the
(11:27):
family.
Does the family affect who thedog is?
The family creates the dog.
The dog is a pack animal.
The dog comes into this worldwith the instinct of who is the
leader?
What are the rules?
How do I survive?
And how they survive is byknowing the leader and knowing
(11:47):
the rules, but they're going tobe fluid in each dog.
If I'm dealing with a blind dog, the rules are going to be
different.
If I'm dealing with a dog withPTSD, the rules are going to be
different.
So you know it's honoring thespecies.
(12:10):
I always tell people do you havebrothers or sisters?
Yes, are you like either one ofyour brother?
And 80% of them say no.
Then why would you judge thispoor dog against your last five?
I'm on right now my thirdDoberman and my sixth Australian
Shepherd.
Neither one are like any oftheir predecessors, and my
(12:35):
latest Australian Shepherd isactually the genetic niece of my
last Australian shepherdNothing alike.
My assistant has her brother,nothing alike.
You honor the individual justas you do with people.
They get the same response andthey feel that when you
(12:57):
communicate, that ease ofcommunication comes from the
acknowledgement of that specialself that they are and they can
feel that it's all energy.
It's really all energy.
Shannon Cutts (13:12):
It's so interesting that you share that,
of course.
We've had five dachshunds inour family to date, and I can
attest to the fact that theyhave been nothing alike.
The last two have come from thesame breed lines.
We're talking moon and sun here.
Could not be more different,and deep down inside of
ourselves, we are all walkingaround as islands too, and many
(13:35):
of us carry with us, whetherwe're aware of it or maybe open
enough to share it or not, butwe carry the trauma of not being
recognized as such.
And so a lot of our behavior itfeels like with our animals is
an act of my heart is in theright place.
But my head is stuck in thepast.
(13:56):
My head is saying but thatpattern worked with this other
situation over here.
We're not present, Just like youwere sharing as we opened up
with your pen and your notebook,being aware of what's coming
through, what kind of intuitiveguidance, what kind of ideas are
coming through in the moment,and you mentioned in your book.
So of course I hope you don'tmind me sharing it, but you have
a background in trauma.
Many, many people who are drawnto keep company with animals,
(14:20):
and certainly many of mystudents and me as well.
We come from somewhat of atrauma background, to varying
degrees and in different ways itopens our hearts, but our heads
don't know how to follow along.
So our heart's in the rightplace, but we don't know what to
do with this impulse that wehave had to help someone else.
(14:42):
And I would imagine that'swhere you come in.
Pete Campione (14:45):
Well it starts.
I always say it starts with theheart and then goes to the head
.
Had to help someone else and Iwould imagine that's where you
come in.
Well it starts.
I always say it starts with theheart and then goes to the head
.
Yeah, you know, especially whenpeople acquire a dog, they
start with their heart and thenit goes up to the head and it's
like oh wait, a minute.
I didn't know that For me.
I had no idea why I could dowhat I did until I had to coin
(15:07):
Oprah an aha moment.
There was a movie out manyyears ago called Buck, about the
original horse whisperer, butyou've seen it.
Is that movie not brilliant?
Shannon Cutts (15:19):
So good Okay.
Pete Campione (15:21):
That was my story .
That's when I finally realizedwhy I could do what I did.
I never understood it.
I always had this confidencearound animals and I could
always hear things and I alwaysjust instinctively knew what to
do.
And until I saw that movie itwas explained to me.
(15:46):
A lot of us who deal withanimals are broken, are damaged,
and it's almost as though theanimals are our way out.
They're almost okay, couldn'tfix me, but I can fix them, I
understand them.
And this puts especially for me, it puts me in the position of
(16:09):
okay, look, I look at a dog andit's like I got your back.
Okay, now, I just got to getyour parents to understand what
you're saying.
But I got it, I get it.
And a lot of times they'll lookat me and go oh, you know me.
And there's just thisconnection and I've had it since
(16:29):
I was a kid.
But it was never clear.
You develop as an abused kid.
You develop heightened sensesof awareness to surroundings.
Your sensory is fight or flight.
So you have to be aware of asituation like that, immediately
(16:53):
assess, diagnose, figure out toavoid the abuse.
So I never realized I was doingthis and that's how quickly I
was able to then figure out whatwas going on with an animal,
because I hadn't been honingthis skill to protect myself.
Yeah, so it just channeled.
(17:15):
And then when I saw the movieand I listened to Buck's story,
I was like, oh well, then that'sit.
Now it makes sense.
Yeah, it just became clear.
I mean, I remember as a kid mygrandmother had a dog.
My father would never let mehave a dog.
I was not allowed a dog.
(17:41):
When I grew up in Brooklyn wewere not no pets, no pets, and I
was the loneliest kid on theblock but, god forbid, I should
have a pet.
But anyway, my grandmotheralways had a dog.
And I remember one particularincident.
It was Easter, the whole familywas there.
Dog had grabbed a bone and washiding under a table and
growling and all the adults werelike no, no, no, I'll do it, no
, I'll do it, no, I'll do it.
And I was like I'll, the dog'sname was frisky, it was a
(18:04):
springer spaniel and I knew thedog I'd spent.
So I said I, I'll do it.
And everybody was like, oh, no,no, no, you'll get bit, oh, no,
you'll get bit.
And I just ignored him.
I went over, I went over.
I took it out of his mouth.
End of story.
He knew me, I knew him and heknew I was not afraid.
Our energy matched.
Everybody in that room wasafraid and working on a
(18:27):
different head level.
I was working on his level andit just managed.
I had dogs.
When I finally got my first dog,I never understood and I wrote
about that in the book Joshua,my first dog.
I didn't understand.
He was the best trainedoff-leash dog.
(18:48):
I didn't know what I was doing.
I was just talking to him, Iwas parenting, I was parenting,
I said it, I followed through.
We had.
He understood.
You have to take the time to letthem understand.
So, like I said, it seemedinstinctual to me.
(19:10):
You know, and it's the samething almost when I deal with an
autistic child.
I had an autistic child in myclass and it was in the middle
of class and the child washaving a meltdown and the mother
was beside herself and she saidno, no, no, I have to get him
out and I said wait, no, and Istopped and I said wait a minute
(19:33):
and I went over to the childand I said look at me and I got
him to focus and he looked at myeyes and within five minutes I
had him looking at a coloringbook.
It's.
You have to make yourself openif somebody is going to let you
in, so you've got to be open inorder for them to be open.
And it works with kids, itworks with dogs, it works with
(19:57):
people and I think I wear myheart on my sleeve and the dog
can feel that.
And it works with kids, itworks with dogs, it works with
people, and I think I wear myheart on my sleeve and the dog
can feel that.
It's like oh no, I'm not fakingit, I'm real, I'm not.
And dogs what I love about dogsis their total honesty.
They do not have the part ofthe brain that is abstract, so
(20:20):
they can't have abstract thoughtand lying is abstract.
That's why, when people tell me, well, I just took my dog for a
walk and he's still hyperactive, I said he's being honest, the
walk was not enough.
He's not lying to you.
They can't.
So you know, and I believe,through their life with us and
(20:44):
their history with us, dogs haveevolved.
I believe their brain function.
That's the only research that Itrust is physiological research
.
Yes, and they have looked at thebrains of dogs now and they are
seeing parts of the brain thatdid not function before are
functioning, and that's becausethey lived with us.
(21:06):
They're evolving with us, so wehave to allow for that.
That's why what I did 10 yearsago in my practice I'm not doing
today.
I evolve every day.
Yes, you know, people will sayto me well, you used to do this,
well, that's yesterday, anddifferent dog, different time.
Shannon Cutts (21:26):
You learn you grow, add skills to your toolkit
.
I always remind my animalcommunication students if any of
you are listening to thisepisode that we must be honest
with the animals because if weare not honest they can feel it
and they will not trust us andthey will not open up.
They are capable of withholdingand they are capable of
protecting themselves and so,even if we're having an off day,
(21:49):
when we're communicating it'simportant to be able to say I'm
sorry, I'm just having a bad day, can you please just bear with
me, or I'm sorry.
I'm really nervous about havingthis communication conversation
, this practice session with you, because I'm afraid I'm going
to get it wrong.
And just be honest about whatwe're feeling.
Then the animal understands.
If we're in physical proximity,I believe our pheromones change
(22:11):
the chemical messengers thatwe're sending out change, Even
if we're at a distance throughthe quantum field.
the sensory signature of honestyis it needs no translation.
Pete Campione (22:33):
No, and I honestly believe also there is a
certain empathy and a certainempathic process going on,
because the dog can sensewhether it's through smell or
whether it's through energy,whether you are faking it or
whether it's through energy,whether you are faking it or
whether you're serious.
And you can't do that with ananimal, you don't.
There's no faking it with them,because they're pure honesty.
They're pure honesty.
(22:53):
There is no.
I love when people say my dogis being stubborn.
Stubborn is a concept andstubborn is a learned behavior.
It's not a DNA behavior, it's alearned behavior.
Your dog can't be stubborn ifyou don't let it be stubborn.
The thing is, to an extent youtap into nature, because nature
(23:16):
does have a thread when it comesto canines, but then you have
to break down into individualsand more and more and more until
you know you're there Because,like I said, dogs have evolved.
Dogs have come further in theirbrain function and in what they
(23:38):
do.
They are losing more and moreof that old DNA and creating new
DNA and we have to be consciousof that.
If we bring them into our livesfor 15 years and what's amazing
to me is sometimes people willonly talk to their dogs an hour
(24:00):
a day, 15 minutes a day.
They come home from work high.
I'm constantly talking to mydogs.
It starts from day one and Iguess that's also because of
what I do.
But my newest dog, louie, myDoberman, is only nine months.
I'm constantly taking him outin front of my class and saying
okay, louie doesn't know this,let me show you how to do this.
(24:23):
And the next thing I know, Itell Louie what to do and he
does it.
And I'm like what the hell?
Where did you get it?
He just knows.
And this is where that bodylanguage.
See, dogs are nonverbal.
So everything matters to a dogVisual, sensory, smell.
(24:47):
They're nonverbal.
There are no words in theirhead.
We teach language and teachinglanguage is an equation.
Instruction, followthrough-through, repetition,
consistency equals behavior.
So you have to follow thatequation.
You can't leave something outor the dog can't learn because
(25:08):
they have no words.
So they're memorizing as theygo.
That's their nature.
Survivalism in a dog dictatesmemorize everything and,
depending on the kind of dog youhave, that's where you get into
different brain function.
Shannon Cutts (25:23):
Well, because it feels like we've tinkered with
their DNA, especially withcertain purebred breed lines.
We've changed their leg length,we've changed their genetic
structure, we've emphasizedcertain traits, we de-emphasized
others.
Whether we know it or not, weseem fearless about tinkering
with canine DNA, even if wedon't understand what all the
genes do.
(25:43):
And then we wonder why thisbreed of dog doesn't behave like
that breed of dog and why theycan't seem to adapt to our
expectations and our goals.
We rewired them, in a sense.
Pete Campione (25:57):
We did.
We not only rewired them, butthen we rewired them and then
kept rewiring and unfortunately,as function started to
dissipate in dogs, we didn'tadapt that function and redirect
(26:18):
it.
So I get people with who bringme huskies, and I've actually
heard the phrase can't you trainit not to be so active?
All right, I'm like, are youkidding me?
No, no, that's like sayingcan't you get the spots off of
my Dalmatian or can't you makemy dachshund shorter?
(26:40):
You know, no, you need to knowbeforehand what you're getting.
You know, I always tell peopledo you buy your car because it's
red or do you buy the carbecause it's a good car and fits
your needs?
That's human arrogance.
Shannon Cutts (26:58):
And the other thing that really, really gets
highlighted for me and I think,infuses the passion that I have
for teaching animalcommunication, which is a
sensory language.
It's our birth language, it'sour original language, it's the
language that we possessedbefore we learned the words and
the formulas, as you said, andthe codes and the programs, for
(27:20):
if you put a noun with a verband an adjective and then
another noun, that's called asentence and at the end of it
there's something calledpunctuation and that can change
the emphasis of it.
But before we learned any ofthat and the adults around us
got so excited that we werelearning it and encouraged us to
forget about our birthrightlanguage.
We all had this sensorylanguage and it's really hooked
(27:42):
into our fight or flightsurvival system, and so a lot of
times it's a process of wakingup, and for me the word empath
translates to mean to feel as ifwe're literally to suffer with.
And when I look at my cockatielor my red-footed tortoise, who's
supposed to be in the junglesand grasslands of South America,
or our dachshund, who's awire-haired working dog breed
(28:05):
mom won't listen to this podcast, so I can freely say what were
you thinking, and I look at themand I look around at our
artificial world, artificiallighting, our artificial seasons
, our artificial schedules, ourcrazy little electronic pets
that are competing for ourattention, and I think, don't
you feel the frustration and theconfusion of an animal who has
(28:26):
millennia of wiring?
Before we were even a gleam inthe eye of the primordial soup
as Homo sapiens, the prototypesfor all of our companion animals
were already up and running anddoing probably fairly well
without us, and now we bringthem into our artificial world
and expect them to just get it.
And it's like no, they really,really, really don't so much of
(28:49):
the way that we live.
Our DNA hasn't even caught upyet.
Our DNA hasn't even caught upwith our technology.
We get into stress and anxietyand PTSD and trauma because we
feel like we can't cope with ourworld.
Well then, how is our animalsupposed to cope?
Well?
Pete Campione (29:05):
we've taken a highly social, pack-oriented
animal that's very much got asocial structure like our own
and then we bring them into ourhome and we don't allow them to
be part of the social structure.
And I think this is why peoplesay to me your dogs listen.
(29:25):
So it's because they're myfamily.
They're always with me, they'realways we move together.
Even if it's just I'm going outto my training building, the
dogs come with me.
It's a pack, there's a dynamicand you have to honor that and a
lot of dogs don't.
It's kind of like if you playedpiano and you didn't practice.
(29:50):
If you don't keep yourcommunication with your dog
consistent and constant, they'regoing to lose that concept of
communication.
First you teach it and you say,hey, look, we're talking here,
we're going back and forth andonce you have that, that's
opened the door to limitlesspossibilities.
(30:14):
But you have to keep it up, youhave to maintain it and it.
And it's funny because you, indoing that, certain dogs are
more prone to communication thanothers.
Your dachshunds, for example,are a highly independent breed
and but that's DNA, because theyare the only, the only ter and
(30:40):
they're part of the terrierfamily.
They are the only subgroup ofdogs that was bred to work, hunt
and kill independently.
They do it on their own.
Every other sporting dog workswith someone, not them.
They work on their own.
So what does that mean to thehuman?
Well, if I'm going tocommunicate to that dog, I have
(31:02):
to tap into prey drive, I haveto tap into what I have to allow
that dog to be independent.
You don't push a dachshund, youdon't push you nudge.
Dachshunds have to think it'stheir idea.
So that's where schmoozingcomes in and I love that.
I love their personalities.
(31:25):
To me that's character.
I enjoy that.
I enjoy a dog that looks at meand goes yeah, mate, you know I
like that because it's back andforth.
You know I like that becauseit's back and forth, it's
communication and it's like wework it out.
Yeah, ok, there's no rule foremotion, as much as there is
(31:48):
parenting.
I mean you don't get angry whenyou teach.
You don't get angry when a dogmakes a mistake.
You fix it.
You have to let them knowyou're supporting, not punishing
, because they feel that there'sa difference.
Then they're able to take oh,you wanted this, not that, and
it's less offensive, it's morelikely to stick if they believe
(32:14):
it.
That's why, when I work withdogs who have severe fear issues
, I let the dog make thedecision.
Are you ready for me yet?
Are you ready to come out?
Are you ready to do this?
I got a kiss last night from adog who made me cry, from a
Malinois who was shut down.
I had said to the owner, I said, before that dog leaves here,
(32:36):
that dog is going to wag itstail and that dog's going to
give me a kiss.
Sure enough, last night the doggraduated and I'm going to cry
now and the dog wagged its tailand gave me the kiss and I swear
on my mother.
I heard the words thank you.
Of course you did.
I heard the words thank you.
I get it, and it could be me, Idon't know, but that's what I
(33:03):
hear.
The story in my book aboutMartin.
Martin was the reason for thebook, because here was this
German shepherd who spent hislife in a concentration camp and
after all the work I did, justfor no reason jumped in my lap,
knocked my glasses off, showeredme with kisses and all I kept
(33:24):
hearing was thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank
you, thank you.
You know, the owner was intears.
She said that dog has neverdone that before and that to me
was a proactive communicationfrom the dog.
There was signs will say dogsonly do things to get something.
That dog got nothing from me.
That dog was thanking me.
(33:45):
There was nothing.
That dog got out of thatsituation and that's where this
whole concept of what I do comesin, because I do believe that
their part of the brain thatfeels is growing.
That was proactivecommunication.
That dog wasn't begging for atreat, that dog was saying thank
(34:07):
you.
That dog came to me.
So you know it's and I justfind it fascinating.
I find it absolutelyfascinating.
I mean, I am so lucky andblessed to do what I love.
Shannon Cutts (34:21):
Sure, yeah, I feel the same way and I do feel
blessed that most of the humananimals who cross my path and
maybe you can resonate with thisas well despite some of the
frustrating experiences, themajority of human animals who
cross my path crave a deeper,closer connection and often
(34:45):
crave permission to open up, tofeel more, to stop and be more,
rather than this doing, doing,doing that.
Our culture seems to encouragethis domestication, as Don
Miguel Ruiz, one of my mentors,talks about, where we're just
achieving more and consumingmore.
It's like, no, I want to bewith my dog because I feel
(35:09):
better when we're together, butit's like then, making space for
it, making time for it andrecognizing what does my dog
need in order for it to be apositive experience for both of
us.
And a lot of times that comesback to recognizing that we
don't really understand ourwiring.
There's a huge part of the newanimal communication adventure
program that I'm developing thatactually talks about the
(35:31):
neurobiology, of what makestwo-way interspecies
communication possible.
In other words, what do allthese bells and whistles do?
And I don't know if you findthat in your dog communication
program, if you find that aswell.
Pete Campione (35:42):
Interspecies communication possible, in other
words, what?
Shannon Cutts (35:44):
do all these bells and whistles do?
And I don't know if you findthat in your dog communication
program.
If you find that as well, thathumans who come in maybe, who
are locked down or emotionallydistant or traumatized
themselves or judging themselvesor they've have been judged by
someone else, why can't you justcontrol your animal?
What's wrong with you that youcan't train this dog?
And they come in and maybethrough experiencing the work
that you do and seeing adifferent model of how humans
(36:05):
and dogs can cohabitate together, maybe they start to open up as
well.
I think there was a part in yourbook where you talk about
experiencing and this is a hugepart of my work and it's a
passion project for me.
I call it soul agreements, butI loved how you shared that you
had met a dog that you just feltlike was an old soul, like
their natural teacher.
(36:26):
So some of these dogs, maybethey come through and they have
trauma and the job is to dragtheir human to come and meet you
so that they can start to openup.
Does that resonate at all?
Because I find that sometimeswith my students.
Pete Campione (36:41):
When I take a dog from an owner and the dog say
that the owner is having troublecommunicating and getting the
dog to follow the instruction orto follow their teaching, I
take the dog and the dog listensto me on the first time and the
owner looks at me and I it'snot magic.
(37:02):
I said I was clearlycommunicated.
I said, look, and this is whereI try to empower the students
and empower the dog families tounderstand, don't you see, if
your dog will do it with me,think of how much it wants to do
(37:22):
it with you.
But you're not communicatingand getting into the dog's heart
and soul.
So they believe you.
The dog believes me.
It doesn't believe you.
Yet and this is where I have tojuggle and say look, the dog
needs more from you.
He's saying that you give himmore.
(37:46):
When a dog does something for me, I'm showing you the
possibility of what it can dofor you.
That's a good thing.
People are always like, oh well, sure, you're the trainer, he
got no.
But I'm showing you that thisis what your dog can do for you.
And I've had many people cometo me and say I am so, so much
(38:10):
happier around my dog now thatmy dog listens and of course,
that always brings on thewaterworks for me, because I
always look at an arc.
I look at how a dog comes inand how a dog leaves, and I've
had dogs literally hiding underchairs the first week and at the
(38:30):
end they're walking out,wagging their tail and jumping
on everybody and that's likefull circle.
But the process is getting thepeople to understand.
The dog will tell you what theyneed.
If you listen, the dog tellsyou I need this.
The dog tells you if you'redoing something right, you have
(38:52):
to listen.
That's part of my job.
I've always been able to hearwhat they need.
You know getting people to lookat what they're doing.
They're telling you if you'redoing it right.
The dog will never lie.
If you're giving them enough,they're going to give it back to
you.
If you're not giving themenough, they can't give it back
to you.
It's got to be equal.
(39:13):
It's like playing tennis youhit the ball to them, they hit
it right back.
Shannon Cutts (39:18):
And it's got to be reassuring for your students,
for your human students, tohave somebody in their life who
can help them simplify what hasbecome probably, in their head,
a very complicated problem.
Pete Campione (39:35):
And what I find is the relief of and the rewards
of that communication, becausethen they're able to enjoy the
dog before they communicate.
It's this disconnect and thisadversarial, almost adversarial
quality to their relationship.
(39:57):
And then when somebody leavesand said it's such a pleasure to
bring my, I can bring my dogplaces, now he can go with me.
I said, well, that's.
I always open up by tellingpeople the first night of a
class your dogs are a member ofyour family and should be able
to go anywhere with you thatyou're invited.
(40:18):
Your dog should be able to goand my job is to get your dog in
a position to go with you.
And that way you're creatingthat whole path, because they
are social beings, they're justlike us, without the words.
Without the words.
Shannon Cutts (40:35):
Couldn't have said it better.
And I love both.
I love the synergy between thework that I do and the work that
you do, because I feel like somany of our animals, definitely
our dogs, our cats, our parrots,our turtles.
Even we put them in theposition of having to learn and
memorize as many human words andtheir approximate meanings as
(40:58):
they can to try to communicatewith us, because we're not
meeting them at least halfway byreconnecting with our sensory
language.
Curious, do?
Pete Campione (41:07):
you feel that intuitiveness is instinctual or
learned, or a combination ofboth.
It's both.
Shannon Cutts (41:18):
It comes hardwired.
I call it the iOS, theintuitive operating system.
It's hardwired into our fightor flight.
It's like a traffic lightsystem.
We've all had vibes, aha moments, hunches, gut instincts do that
, don't do that, don't buy thatcar, do adopt this dog, whatever
it is.
It's like an instinct.
It's just something that weknow, and the way I describe
(41:39):
that wiring is it's somethingthat you know, that you know.
You don't know how you know it.
You didn't know it a moment ago.
Now you can't unknow it, andnothing your left brain mind
says can talk you out of knowingwhat you know.
That's intuition.
However, just like any otherpattern, just like you, so
neatly lined out for us, if wedon't use it, first of all, we
(42:01):
don't recognize what it is andwe'll never develop any real
interest in developing arelationship with it and we
won't trust it.
And then that's why, for manyof us, it only arises in deep
trauma or crisis situations.
And it's like well, somethingjust told me that this child was
trapped under a car and I wentover and I lifted it somehow.
And it's like well, somethingjust told me that this child was
trapped under a car and I wentover and I lifted it somehow and
(42:22):
it's like but that seems sorandom because we don't ever see
the smaller, everyday,intuitive, instinctual, sensory
just being able to stand in aroom and feel somebody's eyes
staring at you even thoughthey're behind you.
Something told us, and when weturn around, we're right.
What was that?
(42:43):
And getting curious, noticing,wondering, getting curious,
keeping notes, so that becomesthat structured process of
recoding it back into oureveryday way of life.
Pete Campione (42:53):
But do you agree that it's also a muscle that
needs to be flexed and workAbsolutely.
You know, because I did a lotof people who just talk to their
dogs.
When they want the dog to dosomething or when they really,
really want the dog to listen,then they take the time.
The rest of the time the dog isjust there.
Shannon Cutts (43:13):
Yeah, it's like a phone.
These have become our new pet.
Those of you who are listeningto the audio.
I just held up my smartphone.
I forget, because I'm chattingwith Pete here on video.
But yeah, we've just packed ourlives so full.
As human animals, we behave asif we're not connected to the
whole and we really don't belonghere.
We almost behave like aninvasive species when in reality
(43:34):
we are still connected.
And you touched on this.
Animals, especially dogs, haveevolved further and further away
from their function as ourpartners in work, in life, and
not so many years ago,landholders were bringing their
livestock into their homes withthem in the winter to share
warmth, to keep them alive,because they were so valuable.
(43:55):
Now, if we want to keep companywith animals most of us the
only way to really do that is toget a pet.
Pete Campione (44:01):
So by Australian shepherds.
People see them and they seehow well behaved they are and
they're highly, highly empathicdogs.
These are dogs that work at adistance.
Their brains are extremelydeveloped to high level problem
solving.
Are they good pets?
No, they're not dogs to sitaround the house all day.
(44:25):
Yeah, I didn't have my job, Iwould not have dobermans and
australian shepherds.
They are working breeds who isthe wire?
Shannon Cutts (44:34):
haired dachshund actually the wire here sitting
on the couch right now I know,but but the sense of humor.
Pete Campione (44:41):
I'm sorry, I know .
I just find it absolutelyhilarious, because when you tell
a doxin to do something, thefirst thing they do is look
around to see if anybody elsecan do it.
It's like, oh, you're talkingto me, you want me to do that?
Wait a minute.
Okay, I guess I have to do it.
No one else is here.
I love that.
I find that character.
Shannon Cutts (45:01):
It's hilarious.
Pete Campione (45:02):
It's just like who they are.
It's not good or bad, it's just.
You know.
It's no different than who I amas a person, it's just part of
us.
Shannon Cutts (45:14):
One of my mentors used to describe it as we all
just come from different pots ofenergy.
Pete Campione (45:19):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
Shannon Cutts (45:21):
So when we were chatting before I hit record,
you were mentioning that youhave actually had experiences,
have sought out experiences, inaddition to your obvious innate
ability to communicatetelepathically with dogs and
other species.
I have a.
Pete Campione (45:38):
Eleanora cockatoo .
She's a rescue.
I've had her since she was 13and we got her 20 years ago, so
she's probably 35.
Her name is Daphne and she'sbeing very quiet right now.
Shannon Cutts (45:54):
Yeah, so is my little one.
Pete Campione (45:56):
They must be connected Again to not honor an
approach when dealing with aparrot as opposed to a dog is a
different brain function.
Parrots are still notdomesticated, so you cannot just
assume that and that's againhuman arrogance.
We bring them into our home andwe expect them to just be what
(46:18):
we want them to be.
No, it doesn't work that way,but I've dealt with a lot.
There are certain dogs I've hadwhere I didn't understand
something that was going on andI would call someone like you
and I would say all right, whatthe hell is going on in this
one's head?
(46:39):
I will never forget my firstexperience, and it was with.
I had mentioned Lydia Hibby,and it was her and she was
reading my dog Jake, and all ofa sudden she said to me well,
the first thing he's saying ishe wants more cantaloupe.
What is that?
And I turned white.
(47:00):
Who says to anybody with a dogthat your dog wants more
cantaloupe?
Honest thing in the world tosay.
But sure enough, the weekbefore I had left a half a
cantaloupe on a coffee table,didn't finish eating it, Jake
grabbed it, ate it and now hewas telling her he wants more.
(47:21):
So there was no way.
That came out of nowhere.
No way, Absolutely no way.
Shannon Cutts (47:28):
And I love that because that's the exact thing
that I tell my students is, whenwe're practicing and we're
taking notes, because usuallyit's in real time, we don't want
to miss anything.
So we have this discipline oftaking notes about what the
animal is sharing and I say besure to write down the thing
that you think is too weird orcouldn't possibly be true, or
(47:49):
the the thing that isn't likeall the rest, because chances
are that's the good stuff yeah,and the other thing, the other
thing she followed that with isshe said he's tired of being
mistaken for a girl and I hadbrought him.
Pete Campione (48:02):
Every time I had brought him out, he was
beautiful, so naturallybeautiful dogs.
Oh, isn't she beautiful?
And if I heard it once a day, Iheard it 10 times a day.
And sure enough, she comesaround, she says he can't stand
that, he's tired of being calleda girl.
And I'm like, okay, I'm hooked.
Now I'm hooked.
(48:23):
But again, I've always thoughtit was like the example I gave
you before with the dog with thebone.
I could just look at his eyesand say, no, he's not going to
bother me, he's not going to,he's not going to hurt me.
And he didn't.
And I it's, I it's.
It's very funny.
People say aren't you afraid ofgetting bit?
No, they tell me, they'll tellme if they, if they're too
(48:44):
afraid for me to come in,they'll tell me.
Otherwise, I I've had dogs thathave bitten eight people and
they've curled up in my lap.
Yeah, doesn't negate the factthat they've bitten eight people
, but they didn't bite me andit's just something, it's a
feeling and I don't question it,I just accept it.
That's good.
Shannon Cutts (49:05):
That's good.
Once upon a time, sensorylanguage is the only way we had
to get our needs met.
It was the only way that we hadto survive before we learned,
whatever our birth language was,whatever our original spoken
verbal language was.
And I find this so fascinatingbecause, yes, you have this
innate ability and very key,you're very aware of it and you
(49:25):
trust it.
That's really important.
However, it also speaks to thefact that this is what I share
with my students.
I say we're never too advancedto learn something new.
We always want to come withthat empty cup and that present
moment awareness to learnsomething new.
We always want to come withthat empty cup and that present
moment awareness to learnsomething new.
We're also never too broken tohave something to share and
something to teach.
I often share with my petparent clients.
(49:47):
I say who else is on your dog'sor your cat's or your bird's
well-pet team?
We need a team.
Typically, we need a variety ofexperts that we can turn to.
It's not to say that we're onthe phone or on Zoom with them
every week, but just because I'man animal communicator doesn't
mean that I am not going to askone of my colleagues to talk
(50:12):
with my animals.
It's not unlike therapy in thatway.
Sometimes I'm too close to asituation or we're mirroring
each other because we havesimilar stuff trauma or buttons
that we're working through andso it's beautiful to have that
humility that you just expressedto say well, I'm an expert,
this comes very naturally, andyet I feel like in this
(50:32):
situation I could really use anobjective input, I could really
use some support, and that'ssomething else where I feel like
having these group classes,whether it's dog communication
or it's animal communication ingeneral or it's something else.
So often when an animalguardian or a pet parent comes
to us, they come feelingdepleted, isolated, sometimes
(50:55):
embarrassed, frustrated,humiliated, judged, and it's
like they don't know that whatthey're going through is normal
if they don't know what you or Inow know and have learned, so
it's like it's okay.
Pete Campione (51:08):
Yeah, there's trauma.
Shannon Cutts (51:09):
Yeah, there's issues, but we can work on that.
It's okay.
I'm glad you're here.
Pete Campione (51:14):
But don't you feel that it's part of your job,
as I do mine, to build theirconfidence, because your
confidence that's leading thedog.
The dog knows when you're incharge, when you're you mean it,
when you're honest, when you'reconfident.
And if somebody comes to me andlacks the confidence, I keep
(51:36):
telling them relax, have funwith it, enjoy the dog.
Build your confidence in workingwith the dog.
The dog will tell you and I get, I have so much trouble
sometimes just getting people tosmile.
Sure, I mean, I get in troublea lot because I'm from Brooklyn
and I have no filter and I can'ttell you how many times someone
(52:01):
I'm trying to I said would youplease have fun with this dog?
You look like you have to poopand you know they look at me
horrified because I've said that.
But it's the truth.
Get this grimace off your face.
Shannon Cutts (52:12):
They hired you for a reason.
They need to hear it.
Pete Campione (52:17):
Get that grimace off your face and the dog will
respond.
You think the dog doesn'tunderstand your facial cues.
The dog is looking foracceptance.
The dog wants to know did I doit, did I not do it?
And you're a blank slate.
You can't do that.
And building the owner'sconfidence, which is what you do
also then translate to moreeffective communication.
Shannon Cutts (52:41):
Absolutely, and there are a variety of tools,
just like you shared.
I'm always adding to my toolkit.
I don't do everything exactlythe same as I did three years
ago.
It's so interesting you sharethat because I have an analogy
from a few weeks ago.
This isn't a dog story, but it'sa horse story, and one of my
pet parent clients had justbrought a new horse into the
(53:02):
family and was having sometrauma what seemed to be
trauma-based behavior issues andwas feeling like she wasn't
safe, and one of her questionsfor the horse was do you trust
me to be a good leader?
And whether it's just no filter, naturally, or it's just
recognizing I am serving as theanimal's advocate, maybe the
only voice they'll ever have.
(53:22):
And I said to her, to be quitehonest with you, no, he doesn't,
because you don't trustyourself.
If you trusted yourself, youwouldn't have asked that
question.
And he's saying I know you canbe a good leader, but I don't
trust you yet.
But just like you know, I'vegot it in me to be a pretty
incredible show partner.
I know you have it in you to bea really good leader and just
(53:44):
the fact that you asked thatquestion shows me that you know
it too.
You are not there yet and so alot of times it's building that
confidence is.
I love it when one of myclients says I knew my animal
was going to say that.
When one of my clients says Iknew my animal was going to say
that, or I know that he'stelling me something or she's
(54:05):
telling me something, but I justcan't figure out what it is.
It's not totally dormantanymore, this sensory language,
but they don't know what they'reexperiencing and that can be
something really wonderful towatch somebody.
Pete Campione (54:18):
The reason sometimes that we have an
advantage is because we don'thave a history with the dog or
with the animal, whereas theanimal already has history with
the owner.
So the animal is like well, Iknow they're not going to make,
I know they don't mean it, Iknow that they're taking us at
face value, they're taking us asa new.
(54:40):
You know, I always look at itas I'm having a new conversation
with your dog right now.
So this is the first time we'remeeting.
So that dog has no reason notto take me seriously.
And it's the same with you thatyou're walking in with no
baggage.
A lot of these people that cometo us already have the baggage
(55:01):
there and they have to let thatbaggage go and look, this is the
, and to me that's the beauty ofdogs.
Dogs are so highly adaptivethat you can change and they'll
change with you.
Shannon Cutts (55:13):
You just have to have the confidence that you
change, they'll change and thechange typically is so positive
that it's like the energy isalready trying to flow in that
direction.
Pete Campione (55:24):
Yes.
Shannon Cutts (55:25):
So it's like the change.
We're not asking the change ina negative direction, we're
asking them to evolve.
That's why, for me, I callanimal communication the best
self-development program I'veever found, because we just
don't get taught about all ofthe other stuff that you and I
are talking about today.
We don't recognize that we'reso much more capable, that we
have so many more tools in ourtoolkit.
(55:46):
Nobody's ever pointed them outor taught us to use them, and by
the time we get to adulthood welack the time and the bandwidth
most of us to go searching onour own.
So when an animal comes intoour life, it's like, okay, now I
got to drop everything and Igot to make an appointment to go
see this person, or I got tohave a session, because now life
(56:07):
is really out of control.
As one of my mentors said,let's slow down to speed up,
let's just slow down.
Let's slow the pace down.
Very good, yes, slow down, takestuff off the to-do list and
we'll just focus on thepriorities and guess what?
Everything else, those smallerthings that become big things.
They just smooth themselves outbecause we've taken care of the
(56:27):
big issue, which really boilsdown to what is our relationship
like with ourself and with theones that we love, and if we
prioritize that, a lot of theother stuff just works itself
out.
Pete Campione (56:38):
a lot of the other stuff just works itself
out.
Well, I've always found that,my own experience in fact.
I tell people I say, look, youpay me, but the dog is my client
and I advocate for my client.
My client comes first and it'salmost.
You know, I bring my ownhistory into it because I never
(56:58):
had that, I never had anybody atmy back.
So it's like damn, if I'm notgoing to have that dog's back,
no matter what.
And you know, and I tell peoplesometimes I said the only thing
standing between that dog beingwell-behaved is you and I have
to meet halfway and we'll get tothe dog, but the dog will.
(57:21):
People just don't listen.
They don't, they don't listen,the dog.
And it's funny.
I use parenting a lot.
Shannon Cutts (57:30):
Yeah, I'll tell, especially mothers especially
moms.
Pete Campione (57:34):
I'll say wait a minute, you can't tell what this
dog needs.
You know when your baby iscrying, whether that means he's
hungry or he pooped his pants.
You know when they need snacks.
You know when they need to goout, you know, you know this
mother's it.
Well, you have the tools, usethem, take out the words and use
(57:56):
them.
But everybody has these skills.
Shannon Cutts (58:00):
That's brilliant and on that note, we have come
to the conclusion.
I feel like you and I arekindred souls ourselves and we
can talk about this stuff allday long, but I do not want to
leave today's episode withoutgiving you a chance to share how
people can reach out to you Now.
I know you have in-personclasses and you've got your book
, but lots of people listen tothis from all over the world, so
(58:23):
please share with everyonelistening any way in which they
can reach you, maybe receivesupport for what they're going
through with their dogs and anyparting words of encouragement
for our listening community.
Pete Campione (58:38):
As far as reaching out to me, I would
encourage everybody first toread the book, because the book
is going to open your eyes tothe possibilities.
Then you reach out to me andI'll help you get there.
But what I try and tell peopleis I go, I have nothing up my
sleeves.
It's not magic, there is nowhispering, there is no special
(59:03):
powers.
There's instinctual, there'sfeeling.
We all have it.
We just have to tap into it.
I try to let everybody know.
It is not magic, it is nature.
Okay, just get in touch withthat, get quiet, listen, but
(59:23):
anybody can do it, it's just.
And the other thing I don't, Idon't skirt people on.
Yes, it does involve work.
You do have to do the work, andI'm not saying it's always easy
, but it can be done, yes, andonce you get the core of it can
be done.
Grab on to that and run with it.
Shannon Cutts (59:44):
Fantastic and it does get easier, it gets more
intuitive, it gets more natural.
So your website is and I willput this in the show notes as
well, but it's KSK9, and that'sthe number nine dot com, and
your book is CanineConversations.
(01:00:04):
Our guest today, pete Campione,from Brooklyn, now located in
New Jersey and so honored anddelighted that you are able to
join us today.
This episode is going to besuch a blessing to our listening
audience and I so appreciatewho you are and the work that
you were able to join us today.
This episode is going to besuch a blessing to our listening
audience and I so appreciatewho you are and the work that
you do in the world.
(01:00:25):
For those of you who have foundlet's Talk to Animals podcast
for the first time, we doepisodes every other week.
You can find us over atanimallovelanguagescom backslash
podcast.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please do take the time
to leave five stars or leave ashort review, or reach out to me
(01:00:46):
, shannon, atanimallovelanguagescom, and let
me know if you have questionsabout what we talked about today
.
Please do let me know.
These episodes are shaped byyour needs and your curiosity
and I love to hear from you byyour needs and your curiosity,
and I love to hear from you.
So, pete and I are sending youour gratitude for spending a
little bit of your time with ustoday, and I look forward to
(01:01:07):
welcoming you back in two weeksfor a fresh new episode.
Okay, all my love.
Bye for now.
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