July 20, 2025 • 36 mins
Episode Summary
What if the most powerful shift in your career started with one small step?
In this episode, Coach Mo welcomes back Michelle Schafer, career and leadership coach and bestselling author of Cultivating Career Growth: Navigating Transitions With Purpose. Together, they unpack the emotional and tactical realities of career transition, especially during job loss, layoffs, and uncertainty. Michelle shares the inner hurdles she overcame to write her book—and how the same mindset tools apply to job seekers stuck in fear, shame, or procrastination. From battling the inner critic to redefining progress beyond job offers, this episode is packed with resilience-building, practical strategies for those seeking more purpose in their work. Whether you're navigating a career pivot, recovering from burnout, or updating your resume, you’ll leave this episode with renewed clarity—and the next right step.
Key Takeaways
- “Just do it” isn't cliché—it’s strategy
Learn how Michelle’s writing process mirrors the small-step approach that helps job seekers overcome overwhelm and take action. - Progress isn’t just job offers—it's daily reps
Redefining success during job search: why asking for a LinkedIn recommendation can be just as meaningful as landing an interview. - Tame the inner critic with truth and structure
Discover Michelle’s framework to shift from self-doubt to clarity and confidence in articulating your value. - This isn’t your forever place
How reframing your layoff story and accepting support helps you reclaim momentum after job loss. - Articulate your value with 3 simple questions
Use the “what, how, and so what” framework to build compelling resume bullets and reclaim your career narrative.
Bio:
Michelle Schafer is an ICF-certified coach, author and facilitator, specializing in career transition and leadership. She is the owner and founder of Michelle Schafer Coaching, empowering people to navigate career transitions with confidence. Michelle is passionate about people and inspired by their progress, working with clients at all levels of an organization and across sectors including federal and municipal government, high tech, not-for-profit and financial services. Michelle offers coaching 1:1 and in groups, is the proud author of the #1 best selling book "Cultivating Career Growth: Navigating Transitions with Purpose" and most recently was recognized as one of Ottawa's Top Coaches in 2024.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelleschafercoaching/
Website: https://mschafercoaching.ca/
Free offer #1: A free chapter from my book - sign up here: https://mschafercoaching.ca/cultivatingcareergrowth/
Order my book Cultivating Career Growth: Navigating Transitions with Purpose here:
https://mschafercoaching.ca/cultivatingcareergrowth/
Free offer #2: Download the reflection tool Career Focus Framework here: https://mschafercoaching.ca/gain-clarity-and-confidence-in-your-job-search/
Email me here: michelle@mschafercoaching.ca
Book a complimentary 30 min discovery call with me here: https://calendly.com/coaching-with-michelle-schafer
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the let's Think About it podcast, where we
embark on a journey ofthoughtfulness and personal
growth.
I'm your host, Coach Mo, andI'm here to guide you through
thought-promoting discussionsthat will inspire you to unlock
your full potential.
In each episode, we'll explorea wide range of topics, from
self-discovery and mindfulnessto goal-setting and achieving
(00:33):
success.
Together, we'll challengeconventional thinking and dive
deep into the realms ofpossibility.
Whether you're looking to findclarity in your personal or
professional life, or seekingstrategies to overcome obstacles
, this podcast is your go-tosource for insightful
conversations and practicaladvice.
So find a comfortable spot,chill and let's embark on this
(00:57):
journey of self-improvementtogether.
Remember, the power oftransformation lies within you,
and together we'll uncover thetools and insights you need to
make it happen.
So let's dive in.
Welcome to another episode ofthe let's Think About it podcast
(01:19):
.
I'm your host, Coach Mo, andI'm here with Michelle Schaefer.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Hi, Michelle.
So good to be on your showagain, Mo.
We've had a few good episodestogether, haven't we?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
The last one we did was episode 50, my Milestone
we're at 62 now.
Oh my gosh, 50, my milestonewe're at 62 now.
So we're just I'm just movingalong, trucking along.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
You're getting closer to 100, every episode at a time
.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Absolutely, and so I distinctively said that I wanted
to bring you back, because inthe very first episode you was
preparing for a launch of yourbook and we didn't get an
opportunity to dive into that.
So I said, hey, when that bookreleases I got to bring you back
.
The book has since released, sohere you are, let's talk about
the book.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I'm up for that.
It's been an exciting time.
It's funny, like when anybodyintroduces me as an author, I
literally do this, like lookingbehind me, thinking that they're
talking to somebody else, butno, they're talking about me,
which is trying to embrace thatidentity.
Wouldn't say I'm fully thereyet, but I'm getting there.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Absolutely.
This is huge.
This is such a proud moment foryou.
I'm excited for you.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Thank you, yeah, I mean they.
And you know what's reallyinteresting, mo is.
So my book came out February.
We're in 2025 as we'rerecording this, and I started
writing this book in January of2024.
And I would say that my book soit's called Cultivating Career
Growth Navigating Transitionswith Purpose it is more relevant
(03:13):
for people today than it wasback in January, because there
is job loss all around us,certainly on both sides of our
border, right In Canada and inthe US, and there's a fair
number of people who either theysee the writing on the wall and
they want to get ready, orthey're just languishing away in
(03:34):
these jobs or at organizationswhere they're not feeling the
love anymore and they need someassistance to try to find
something new, and so my bookcan really help with that.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, let's take a step back, because we may have
some new listeners who are notfamiliar with previous episodes
and don't really know who youare.
So tell my audience who you are, what you do and the type of
value that you bring, and thenthat'll help us subway into your
book bring, and then that'llhelp us subway into your book,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So.
I'm a career coach and I weartwo hats uniquely, so I
specialize in career transition.
I also specialize in leadershipcoaching and leadership
development, and it's reallyinteresting Like I love hearing
the career stories of otherpeople, but certainly I have a
story as well which is I haven'tbeen coaching for my entire
life.
In fact, this month is my 10year anniversary.
(04:28):
I came to be a coach throughtransition, so I've been
restructured two times.
I had to reinvent myself and Ihad to do the same things that I
work on with my clients I hadto figure out what I wanted to
do.
Next, I had to do the samethings that I work on with my
clients.
I had to figure out what Iwanted to do.
Next, I had to clarify my owncareer goals.
(04:50):
I had to develop a job searchplan and I had to figure out all
my marketing, my resume andLinkedIn.
What kind of a story was ittelling?
I had to do all of those thingsand because of my experiences,
because I have been thrust intothe job market unexpectedly and
needing to put together a planand reinvent myself, I got into
(05:13):
coaching because I've had thatexperience.
I've always coached a littlebit in other jobs, but this has
really led me to do somethingmore formal.
I had to go back to school,like coaching school, got a
certification and I started myown business.
Because I've been restructuredtwice, I really wanted to
support other people Not reallylike the support part is really
(05:36):
the value that I provide.
I essentially help peoplenavigate the job market with
confidence and help them findenergizing work for companies
that believe what they believein.
So I do a lot of empoweringpeople to be able to find their
next job, to be able to secureemployment.
I'm not doing the workObviously they are and I'm not a
(05:57):
recruiter.
I don't place people.
So I help people with all theactivities for a job search to
help them find their next job.
And the book was writtenbecause when I found myself
navigating the job market, Ididn't really have a plan.
I just started, there reallywasn't a roadmap, and so I
(06:19):
wanted to give people theroadmap, I wanted to give people
resources, and that's reallywhy my book was born.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Okay, so what was the biggest challenge?
You had this light bulb thatcame on and was like you know
what?
The next step is?
Writing a book.
And what was that challenge?
First, before we actually getinto the details of the book,
but what propelled you forwardwhen certain barriers and
(06:46):
obstacles came up?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, are you thinking for me?
Like what obstacles came up forme?
Oh gosh, yeah, there wereseveral, of course.
I'll be honest, I never reallythought I would write a book.
You know, the barrier I'd sayto that was I didn't think I had
anything really worth saying.
Like that would fill a bookright.
Like I can write posts onLinkedIn.
(07:10):
They're nice and short.
I can give job search tips.
I was getting better at doingthat and I really only started
writing on LinkedIn only fiveyears ago.
I hid behind the words of otherpeople.
It was really in the last fiveyears, with the pandemic, that I
started to share things myself.
I still didn't think I wouldwrite a book because I never
thought of myself as an authorand I never thought anybody
(07:30):
would buy it.
I never thought I would be ableto fill a book.
Part of me thought I'm going toget excited about this and I'm
going to start and maybe I'mgoing to lose my energy
throughout and think why am Idoing this?
I'm really grateful.
My partner, tim, has beenencouraging me for a while.
He thinks I've got a couple ofbooks in me.
I don't know.
I've been writing one.
We might just take a long breakfirst.
(07:54):
Oh my God, birthing a kid, withall the pain, the reward and
the joy it's everything together.
But those are my obstacles.
I knew I could help job seekers,certainly by writing it.
I just really didn't think thatI had enough.
The more I really started toget into the writing, I realized
I've got an avalanche of tipsand strategies to share.
(08:16):
But the other part is and this,I think this is what makes my
book relatable for people isevery chapter starts with a
client story, like in my chaptereight, which is all about
interviewing.
I'm telling the story of one ofmy interview coaching clients
and some of the struggles thatthey had when they came to me,
(08:37):
and then I offer up a lot oftips and then I wrap it up by
saying where did that client gowith that?
How did they do in their nextinterview?
So there's a lot of information, there's client stories, but
there's also lines for people towrite in and make notes.
So it's part workbook and partstrategy and sharing of tips.
But certainly it didn't comeeasy and I really bucked the
(09:00):
thought that I could do this.
So, much so, mo, that peoplewould reach out to me over
LinkedIn like publishers, andsay, oh, have you thought about
writing a book, I'd love to workwith you?
And I just ignored them all.
I really did Like for, I wouldsay, a good year and a half.
I just didn't take up anybodyon the offer.
And then somebody reached outto me who is the publisher that
(09:20):
I did use, and it was just theway she reached out.
I thought you know what?
I should be open to it.
I was closing it down beforeeven investigating it, and when
I had the conversation with herI thought, yeah, if I'm going to
do it, I want to do it with you.
And then we just started theprocess.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And I'm going to correlate this to how you help
clients in your book.
But I think one of the thingsthat we face going through
career transitions right now isthe inner critic.
That's one of the biggesthurdles that we have to just
really learn to break through.
I want to correlate thatthrough your experience, because
(10:04):
the inner critic was probablypresent starting to write your
book.
It was a barrier that you hadto navigate and get through,
jump over.
What was that like for youinitially?
How did you tame it?
We, we obviously know theoutcome, but I want to know how
(10:25):
did you tame it so that you canget the success that you were
able to achieve.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, and I would say , just like looking for work or
doing anything in life.
I had some support with this,like I wasn't in a vacuum
writing this book.
I had a writing coach.
Her name is Amy.
I'm still in touch with hereven though the book is
published.
One of the things that Amyoffered up for me very early.
There were two things thatreally helped me keep going.
(10:51):
One is she said just do it.
Like she said don't wait forthe perfect conditions to write
a chapter.
And I had to give her a chapterevery single week, so I had
deadlines and that kind of thing.
But she said don't wait for theperfect conditions, like
sitting by the fireplace with aglass of wine and computer in
(11:14):
hand and feeling all motivated,like now.
That doesn't describe a lot ofmoments in the day.
But she said just make apractice of writing every day.
And she said just do it.
So she said just put somethingdown on paper, because when we
just get ourselves going,oftentimes it flows.
And she was really right withthat.
(11:35):
If I put down one sentence, onesentence led to two to three to
four.
So that helped a lot just tokeep the motivation going.
But the other thing that sheshared and this was 100% true.
She just said don't get marriedto what you write.
Like she said it will change inediting so that can be a
roadblock for a lot of writers.
(11:56):
Like they want it to soundperfect and they want it to like
just sound a certain way and ifthere's going to be a change
it's hard to adjust to.
And she said the two of themwould really go together because
the just do it and write itreally fed into.
If you're just writing, you'renot getting married to the
outcome.
(12:17):
You know it's going to change,which relieves the pressure.
You don't have to put thispressure on yourself to write to
be like Mel Robbins and sell akajillion books based on
basically four words.
I don't know if you've read anyMel Robbins, but she's hugely
successful as an author and Icould remove the pressure from
(12:38):
myself.
I'm not necessarily going to beher, but if I just do it and I
share the strategies that I knoware going to help job seekers,
I'm just giving myself a way in.
So I would say that wasguidance that really helped me.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
One thing that I have to add to your story there is I
have this tagline that I use inmy emails the most effective
way to do it is to do it Is todo it Saying that.
So that's just.
You're putting a big Kool-Aidsmile on my face and doing that.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
And it's not simple.
Right, but it's not simple,it's hard.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
But how does that carry over to someone who is
struggling in career transition?
Who is struggling in careertransition?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
and the concepts in your book help them with that
transition.
Yeah, I can directly relate thechallenges that I had writing
the book to somebody who is in ajob search.
I speak with clients every weekwho are stuck in their search
and the reason why they're stuckin their search is they're
putting all this pressure onthemselves, like I was with the
book and writing it, putting allthis pressure on themselves to
(13:52):
find the perfect job, likewriting the perfect chapter.
Yeah, that doesn't exist andit's going to morph and change
With job seeking.
It doesn't have to be all ornothing and sometimes people
would just get so overwhelmed byactivities in their job search
so they would just do nothing.
One of the things that I workwith people on is taking
(14:13):
something that seems like it's aroadblock.
It's maybe it's really big,it's overwhelming.
I'll give you an exampleupdating your resume or updating
your LinkedIn profile seemshuge, right as a task.
So I would work with them andsay, okay, so updating your
resume, what would be thetiniest step you could take
(14:36):
where you could do something foryour resume, even if you didn't
do the whole thing with the aimthat something's always better
than nothing?
Somebody might say, oh, likeI'll write a bullet, an
achievement bullet, to supportwhat I did in my last job.
I said there you go, so makethat your goal Then if that's
the only thing you do for yourresume, that's okay because
(14:57):
you've done something.
One achievement statement isbetter than zero achievement
statements and I find thatbreaking down approach into like
taking something big and makingthings really small.
It just allows job seekers toexperience the incremental
progress of doing somethingevery day and just being
(15:19):
consistent.
Be consistent, show up, dosomething, even if the something
is seven minutes, becauseyou'll feel better about
yourself that you did somethingfor seven minutes as opposed to
doing nothing that obviously waszero minutes.
So that's something that helpsjob seekers quite a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And that's powerful, because our mind, the inner
critic, makes it bigger thanwhat it really is right.
Oh my gosh, we got to redo ourresume.
That's going to take about amonth and all of this effort and
energy, but what you're saying?
No, let's take baby steps.
Comproach.
What can we do today.
(16:01):
What's one action we can dotoday to build towards a better
resume?
That's it.
Let's focus on that.
Even me just saying this, itseems more calm.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You're actually doing something.
And the other thing that Ioffer to job seekers and I talk
about this in my book as well isthe idea around like, what is
progress to you?
So a lot of people that I workwith, they feel that they're not
making any headway unless theyget an offer.
(16:36):
So, like in their mind, joboffer equals job search success,
with no room to accept progresson other funds, and then they
declare themselves a failure ifthey're not getting offers.
So I'll break that down withthem as well and I'll say okay,
let's just talk about your wins.
And that's actually one of thequestions I ask my clients
(16:57):
before I meet with them is I'llsend them a series of four
questions and the top one istell me what wins you've
experienced, big and small, thatyou've experienced since the
last time we got together and wewere talking and a win could be
yeah, like I asked somebody fora recommendation for my
LinkedIn profile like that's awin, and I'm trying to help them
(17:19):
understand that's progress too,because you're doing something
and you're getting thatrecommendation and you're
putting it on your profile.
That's a win.
And I encourage job seekers tothink about looking for work.
Do you plant anything?
Do you have a garden or likeflowers or like anything like
that around your place, or knowsomebody that that does that
(17:40):
kind of thing?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, I have a lawn.
I have a little rose gardenarea.
Oh nice, I set it up, I put itthere, but it was iterated, I
didn't do it all in one day.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
No, of course not.
So the reason you're probablywondering why did I bring up
like planting and vegetablegardens and stuff like that?
It's because, like, even to setit up right, like in order to
see the roses come up, you haveto create the right conditions
and you have to tend to thoseplants, otherwise nothing's
going to happen.
So I equate it to a job searchby saying okay, so imagine
(18:17):
you're planting something,whatever it is, you got to push
the seeds down into the groundand then you cover it up, right,
you water it, but you make surethat there's enough sun.
Now, if you look at that patchin your rose garden every day,
you're going to see for a whilethe same thing nothing, because
(18:37):
you can't see what happened withthe seed, except that seed
under the soil is starting togrow, it's starting to bring
shoots, and then, as soon as itbreaks through the soil, oh, now
you see the fruits of yourlabor.
On a job search, I want jobseekers to know that progress is
happening, even if you can'tsee it, which means progress is
(19:01):
not just the beautiful roseplant, which takes some time,
and I like how you said you gotsome help to set it up.
In a job search, we need helpas well.
It's not meant to do on our own.
So for people to say, oh, myjob search is a failure because
I'm not getting any offers, holdon.
Let's look at all the wins, theprogress, the incremental
things that are happening, andincremental progress against
(19:25):
incremental progress is, overtime, going to amount to a
larger step forward.
It's a tough realization.
It takes a bit of time.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, and there's a lot of self-awareness that needs
to be present as well, becausethere's an internal process that
you're going through.
I know we're looking at it froma job search standpoint, but as
you're doing certain activitiesin that job search, you're
growing from that standpoint aswell.
(19:53):
Right, If you have to, let'sjust say, update a section of
your resume about yourexperience, you have to
sometimes take a deep dive.
Maybe some tips from youjournal, try journaling the good
things that you remember thatyou did well in your job.
And then how do we transferthat over into this description
(20:17):
of your experience?
Yeah, Generates internal growthfor you.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Absolutely, and you know what.
I'm glad that you brought thatup, because I would say, like
that's another struggle I seewith people looking for work,
which is why I have a wholechapter all about branding and
how you can represent yourachievements, because a number
of people that I work withoftentimes what has caused
(20:42):
somebody to even just exploreworking with me is they say I've
been at this job search for awhile, I'm applying for jobs,
I'm not getting them.
Or I'm interviewing, notgetting the job.
And when you really delve intoit, the realization of that the
person has is, yeah, there maybe not as much in tune with what
their value is.
(21:03):
So, yeah, you can tell me allthe things that you've done, but
why is that meaningful?
Why is it significant?
If you strip everything away,what's the value that you offer?
And, mo, I still rememberworking with this one individual
and he was a bus driver here inOttawa and, with his resume,
(21:24):
trying to get him to write anachievement statement, he was
totally stuck.
And when I asked him like whereis the roadblock?
What is the roadblock?
And he said I'm just doing myjob, like I'm not doing anything
special, I'm literally justfulfilling my job description.
I said okay, what then?
Even though you were fillingall the job description, tell me
(21:44):
a bit about the impact.
Brainstorming with him, herealized that, yes, he's driving
a bus and he's dropping peopleoff and he's picking them up,
but there were some core thingsthat he had to do that enriched
people's experience.
One he had to be really skilledat handling very challenging
(22:06):
emotions, like strong emotions.
Some people who ride the busare not necessarily nice
Unfortunately, I've experiencedthat so he had to be skilled at
navigating those emotions.
He also needed to bewell-versed in lots of different
accommodations.
Like people who ride the busall have varied needs and some
(22:30):
individuals needed someaccommodations.
He needed to know what thosewere and how to offer them.
He also needed to make quickdecisions in the moment that
protected the safety of hispassengers.
And those were just a few.
And when we were talking aboutit, he realized, okay, yeah,
like I'm doing my job, if he didany of those things poorly,
(22:51):
people would complain about him.
They wouldn't want to be on hisroute.
They'd probably try to findanother way to get to work.
All negative outcomes, but hehad lots of positive outcomes.
Connecting with your value is abig part of looking for work
and articulating that value issomething that people struggle
with, and that's what's in thebook.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
That's exactly what my next question was going to be
.
How do you help readers of yourbook articulate what their
values is or what their purposeis?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I have a bit of a formula, a framework that I will
break down for clients to helpthem come up with that, and it's
basically the information thatyou need to put into your
achievement statement bullet.
So these are the bullets thatappear below each of your jobs,
chronologically under the workexperience section of your
(23:42):
resume, and the framework iseach of those statements needs
to include what you did.
That could be from your jobdescription.
That's fine, what you did, buthow did you do it?
And I say include the so what.
So what you led a project Like,why was it important,
significant, what kind ofresults and outcomes did you
(24:02):
achieve?
And so how I get people to likejust get more familiar with
their value, is a if they haveaccess to like performance
reviews, I asked them to readthrough those because the value
is certainly threaded throughthere.
I also ask them to ask peoplego to people who they used to
(24:25):
work with maybe former directorsor managers and ask them what
are two examples of times whereI offered value to you?
What was I doing and why was itsignificant, so you can get
some good ideas.
There was I doing and why wasit significant, so you can get
some good ideas there.
The other way to come to it isuse chat, gpt, dictate
(24:45):
everything about something thatyou did, something that you were
proud of, something that peoplegave you some positive feedback
on, and just talk about it inchat, gpt and then ask chat or
whatever AI you use.
Develop one achievementstatement for my resume that is
concise and includes thefollowing three points, and this
(25:09):
is where you ask for includethe what, the how and the so
what, and it will takeeverything and distill it and
pop out a nice concise butimpactful achievement statement
for your resume.
Those are some ways that I willwork with people to get
connected to what they do andget them just remembering what
(25:30):
they do.
And yeah, sometimes people areastounded that I say what ask
people Like why would I want toask people?
Others will hold.
They will see things maybe alittle bit different than you,
so something that you'rethinking is a I was just doing
my job thing.
It might be really impactful tosomebody else.
We just need to ask them.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Is that?
Is it laid out in your book aswell about how to take that
approach?
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, I think it's a chapter.
I'm trying to think what is mybranding chapter?
Oh, chapter five.
Chapter five is called what'sin a brand?
And all of that is in there.
Hold the book up.
Why didn't I do that before?
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Okay, because on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I was really proud it got to number one bestseller
status when it came out in thethree categories that it's
offered in.
I know one of the categories isstill number 20, which astounds
me because it came out inFebruary.
I know that you like to offeryour listeners something, so
I've got a gift, of course, foryour listeners, which is people
are going to be able to access afree chapter from the book and,
(26:35):
if you like what you read, thelink is going to be in there.
I know that you're going tosend to everybody as part of the
show notes where you can orderthe whole thing.
I try to make it accessible topeople and the fact that it's
part workbook and part tips justgives people a way to apply
what they're learning directlyto their job search, like in the
moment.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I know we're running out of time, but I got to bring
this up.
There's so many people duringthis time of career transition.
What's happening in our jobenvironment?
They're struggling.
They need resilience right now.
How do you help people?
People establish thatresiliency in the book.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, that's such a great question.
So in my book, chapter nine iscalled this Is Not your Forever
Place, and I very intentionallywrote a chapter that is all
about the limiting beliefs thatwe can have, that inner critic
that gets in the way, and how towork with that inner critic and
(27:43):
those limiting beliefs.
I also talk about how tonavigate the strong emotions
that can come with looking forwork, especially for somebody
who has lost their job.
It is called the sudden pain ofjob loss, for good reason.
It is very painful for people.
Some people experience deep,deep shame because they think,
(28:07):
okay, I lost my job because Iwas a poor performer, that must
be why I lost my job.
And so how I work with peopleto help them dismantle, that is
first of all to help themdismantle.
That is first of all to helpthem see that that, yes, they
have lost their job and it'sincredibly uncomfortable, but
(28:29):
they are not the only one.
Is it really realistic thathundreds of thousands of people
were bad performers?
No, of course not, andsometimes, for somebody who's
really stuck, I'll ask them ifthey share that.
Oh yeah, like a friend of mine,those lost their job and they
found another job and I saidwhat did you think about your
(28:50):
friend when they lost their job?
Did you think that they were abad performer and they got what
was coming to them somehow?
And of course, the person wouldsay, oh, this person's very
talented, they are soknowledgeable and they're like a
really good employee.
And I'll say is it possiblethat others would say the same
thing about you?
You know that you were a reallygreat employee, you were very
(29:10):
supportive, you were a teamperson, you stepped up, you were
like, shared your expertisevery graciously.
Is it possible that othersmight say the same about you?
And then they're like yeah, soI'll work with people and just
give them new language.
The other thing to help them bemore resilient as well is and
(29:31):
this is in the book about how doyou frame your leave story.
So, if you have been let go forany reason, how do you tell the
story of your departure and Mo,I'm not kidding when I say this
.
I have clients who will avoidsocial engagements because they
don't want anybody to ask themwhat they do or if they know
(29:51):
that they're looking.
How's your job search going?
They just don't want to answerthe questions.
So I'll give them the frameworkof how to answer.
Like position, the leave story.
Talk about the fact that youwere restructured.
Business decision was made toeliminate your position.
Maybe it was a mass layoff, butthen talk about something you
were proud of, to show that itwasn't a performance decision
(30:11):
and connect something that youlove about your last job to what
it is that you're talking tothat person about now.
Like it's about managing themessage.
It's about believing themessage and knowing that people
are there to that person aboutnow.
Like it's about managing themessage.
It's about believing themessage and knowing that people
are there to help.
I really encourage.
In fact, one of the firstquestions I'll ask a client when
I first start working with themis tell me who's in your
support network.
Who have you already reached outto to let them know that you
(30:34):
were looking and to get somesupport?
Most people are open withpeople who are in their family.
But and to get some support,most people are open with people
who are in their family.
But there are a few clients whoone in particular I remember
she waited six months to tellher adult children that she was
let go.
She had been with the companyfor over 25 years and was just
completely blindsided andthought it was her fault, and so
(30:57):
she wasn't going to tellanybody for the longest time.
Part of what I do is helpingpeople with the tactical aspects
of looking for work, but Iwould say there's a big
emotional component which is whyI felt a job search is not
complete unless you acknowledgethe emotions that you have and
those limiting beliefs and thatchapter nine is all about that
(31:19):
and ways to reframe that into apositive and productive action
for yourself and for your search.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And kudos to you for including that, because that's
big and we talk a lot about theinner critic here.
The limiting beliefs fearthings like that and that's when
it's biggest.
When you lost your job, right,you carry this judgment about
yourself.
Just what you just sharedaround a mom losing her job and
(31:47):
not telling her adult kids forsix months.
That's the inner critic highlypresent.
You can't say anything.
They're going to think A, b, cand D.
And then the other thing thatyou mentioned was some of the
shame that people carry and theyavoid the social engagements.
(32:10):
I like that you have that inyour book as well to be able to
help them flip the script,because there's always
opportunity in those socialgatherings engagements and if
you are a well-respectedindividual amongst your circle,
it's the inner critic firstthat's talking you out of
(32:32):
leaning on them for support,because if they admire you, love
you, honor you, respect you,they want to help you.
They want to help you, theywant to support you and you
don't know who they know of whothey know Exactly.
So many layers out.
If we use the opportunity toflip it and look for
(32:55):
opportunities, it's huge.
It's a win-win.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yes, exactly, and it's doing things like that
really build the confidence, butbuild the ability to ride the
waves.
No joke, because I've gonethrough a job search twice, I
know that there are ups anddowns.
Sometimes the ups and downs arevery prominent.
From the up to the down couldbe a big drop day by day.
(33:19):
And that's why I say to peoplelike this is not your forever
place.
You will not be unemployedforever.
You will not be in a job searchforever.
You will find work thatenergizes you for an
organization that believes whatyou believe in.
Thinking of Simon Sinek and thewhy, that's my, why, that's my
Simon Sinek, why Sharing thatphrase I've had people quote me
(33:42):
on that in other circles, whichis hilarious because it tells me
it resonates for people, but itis so true.
It's hard to see in the momentwhen you're in a discouraging
job search.
It's hard to see that you'renot going to be in this place
forever, because it just feelslike you are.
And that's why I find engagingsupport.
Don't insulate yourself fromthe people that love and want to
(34:06):
help you.
Do seek out support, do acceptoffers of help, because those
things give you some strength,especially in a very tough job
search.
Can you be found again?
Yeah, a few ways.
So my website is the easiestway.
It's mshafercoachingca.
If you want to access that freechapter, you just tack on a
(34:28):
slash cultivating career growthat the end of that website
address.
Linkedin is a really greatplace as well.
I'm posting, I'd say at leastfive out of every seven days
about looking for work, aboutexploring new career paths, and
for any listener who is lookingfor work, maybe you're feeling
pretty frustrated and you'd likea conversation.
(34:48):
I do offer a complimentarydiscovery conversation, and so
the link for that is also on mywebsite on the Contact Us page.
A few different ways to get ahold of me.
If you do buy the book, I'dlove to hear what you think of
it and especially what part ofit really jumped out for you.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I appreciate you, Michelle.
I really do.
You're such a value to so manypeople out there.
I trust you that whoeverreaches out, you will make sure
that they're equipped with theright tools, resources to take
the first step in their jobsearch.
So proud of you andcongratulations on the book
(35:26):
again.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Thank you, thanks so much and thank you for having me
on the show again.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Thank you for joining me in this episode of let's
Think About it.
Your time and attention aregreatly appreciated.
If you found value in today'sdiscussion, I encourage you to
subscribe on your favoritepodcast platform.
Remember, the journey ofself-improvement is ongoing and
I'm here to support you everystep of the way.
(35:52):
Connect with me on social mediafor updates and insights.
You can find me on Instagramand Facebook, at Coach Mo,
coaching or LinkedIn, at MauriceMabry, or visit my website at
mauricemabrycom for exclusivecontent.
Until next time, keepreflecting, keep growing and,
(36:14):
most importantly, keep believingin yourself.
Importantly, keep believing inyourself.
Remember, the most effectiveway to do it is to do it
Together.
We're making incredible stridestoward a better and more
empowered you.
So thank you, and I'll see youin our next episode.
Welcome to the let's Think About it podcast, where we
embark on a journey ofthoughtfulness and personal
growth.
I'm your host, Coach Mo, andI'm here to guide you through
thought-promoting discussionsthat will inspire you to unlock
your full potential.
In each episode, we'll explorea wide range of topics, from
self-discovery and mindfulnessto goal-setting and achieving
(00:33):
success.
Together, we'll challengeconventional thinking and dive
deep into the realms ofpossibility.
Whether you're looking to findclarity in your personal or
professional life, or seekingstrategies to overcome obstacles
, this podcast is your go-tosource for insightful
conversations and practicaladvice.
So find a comfortable spot,chill and let's embark on this
(00:57):
journey of self-improvementtogether.
Remember, the power oftransformation lies within you,
and together we'll uncover thetools and insights you need to
make it happen.
So let's dive in.
Welcome to another episode ofthe let's Think About it podcast
(01:19):
.
I'm your host, Coach Mo, andI'm here with Michelle Schaefer.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Hi, Michelle.
So good to be on your showagain, Mo.
We've had a few good episodestogether, haven't we?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
The last one we did was episode 50, my Milestone
we're at 62 now.
Oh my gosh, 50, my milestonewe're at 62 now.
So we're just I'm just movingalong, trucking along.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
You're getting closer to 100, every episode at a time
.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Absolutely, and so I distinctively said that I wanted
to bring you back, because inthe very first episode you was
preparing for a launch of yourbook and we didn't get an
opportunity to dive into that.
So I said, hey, when that bookreleases I got to bring you back
.
The book has since released, sohere you are, let's talk about
the book.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I'm up for that.
It's been an exciting time.
It's funny, like when anybodyintroduces me as an author, I
literally do this, like lookingbehind me, thinking that they're
talking to somebody else, butno, they're talking about me,
which is trying to embrace thatidentity.
Wouldn't say I'm fully thereyet, but I'm getting there.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Absolutely.
This is huge.
This is such a proud moment foryou.
I'm excited for you.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Thank you, yeah, I mean they.
And you know what's reallyinteresting, mo is.
So my book came out February.
We're in 2025 as we'rerecording this, and I started
writing this book in January of2024.
And I would say that my book soit's called Cultivating Career
Growth Navigating Transitionswith Purpose it is more relevant
(03:13):
for people today than it wasback in January, because there
is job loss all around us,certainly on both sides of our
border, right In Canada and inthe US, and there's a fair
number of people who either theysee the writing on the wall and
they want to get ready, orthey're just languishing away in
(03:34):
these jobs or at organizationswhere they're not feeling the
love anymore and they need someassistance to try to find
something new, and so my bookcan really help with that.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, let's take a step back, because we may have
some new listeners who are notfamiliar with previous episodes
and don't really know who youare.
So tell my audience who you are, what you do and the type of
value that you bring, and thenthat'll help us subway into your
book bring, and then that'llhelp us subway into your book,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So.
I'm a career coach and I weartwo hats uniquely, so I
specialize in career transition.
I also specialize in leadershipcoaching and leadership
development, and it's reallyinteresting Like I love hearing
the career stories of otherpeople, but certainly I have a
story as well which is I haven'tbeen coaching for my entire
life.
In fact, this month is my 10year anniversary.
(04:28):
I came to be a coach throughtransition, so I've been
restructured two times.
I had to reinvent myself and Ihad to do the same things that I
work on with my clients I hadto figure out what I wanted to
do.
Next, I had to do the samethings that I work on with my
clients.
I had to figure out what Iwanted to do.
Next, I had to clarify my owncareer goals.
(04:50):
I had to develop a job searchplan and I had to figure out all
my marketing, my resume andLinkedIn.
What kind of a story was ittelling?
I had to do all of those thingsand because of my experiences,
because I have been thrust intothe job market unexpectedly and
needing to put together a planand reinvent myself, I got into
(05:13):
coaching because I've had thatexperience.
I've always coached a littlebit in other jobs, but this has
really led me to do somethingmore formal.
I had to go back to school,like coaching school, got a
certification and I started myown business.
Because I've been restructuredtwice, I really wanted to
support other people Not reallylike the support part is really
(05:36):
the value that I provide.
I essentially help peoplenavigate the job market with
confidence and help them findenergizing work for companies
that believe what they believein.
So I do a lot of empoweringpeople to be able to find their
next job, to be able to secureemployment.
I'm not doing the workObviously they are and I'm not a
(05:57):
recruiter.
I don't place people.
So I help people with all theactivities for a job search to
help them find their next job.
And the book was writtenbecause when I found myself
navigating the job market, Ididn't really have a plan.
I just started, there reallywasn't a roadmap, and so I
(06:19):
wanted to give people theroadmap, I wanted to give people
resources, and that's reallywhy my book was born.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Okay, so what was the biggest challenge?
You had this light bulb thatcame on and was like you know
what?
The next step is?
Writing a book.
And what was that challenge?
First, before we actually getinto the details of the book,
but what propelled you forwardwhen certain barriers and
(06:46):
obstacles came up?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, are you thinking for me?
Like what obstacles came up forme?
Oh gosh, yeah, there wereseveral, of course.
I'll be honest, I never reallythought I would write a book.
You know, the barrier I'd sayto that was I didn't think I had
anything really worth saying.
Like that would fill a bookright.
Like I can write posts onLinkedIn.
(07:10):
They're nice and short.
I can give job search tips.
I was getting better at doingthat and I really only started
writing on LinkedIn only fiveyears ago.
I hid behind the words of otherpeople.
It was really in the last fiveyears, with the pandemic, that I
started to share things myself.
I still didn't think I wouldwrite a book because I never
thought of myself as an authorand I never thought anybody
(07:30):
would buy it.
I never thought I would be ableto fill a book.
Part of me thought I'm going toget excited about this and I'm
going to start and maybe I'mgoing to lose my energy
throughout and think why am Idoing this?
I'm really grateful.
My partner, tim, has beenencouraging me for a while.
He thinks I've got a couple ofbooks in me.
I don't know.
I've been writing one.
We might just take a long breakfirst.
(07:54):
Oh my God, birthing a kid, withall the pain, the reward and
the joy it's everything together.
But those are my obstacles.
I knew I could help job seekers,certainly by writing it.
I just really didn't think thatI had enough.
The more I really started toget into the writing, I realized
I've got an avalanche of tipsand strategies to share.
(08:16):
But the other part is and this,I think this is what makes my
book relatable for people isevery chapter starts with a
client story, like in my chaptereight, which is all about
interviewing.
I'm telling the story of one ofmy interview coaching clients
and some of the struggles thatthey had when they came to me,
(08:37):
and then I offer up a lot oftips and then I wrap it up by
saying where did that client gowith that?
How did they do in their nextinterview?
So there's a lot of information, there's client stories, but
there's also lines for people towrite in and make notes.
So it's part workbook and partstrategy and sharing of tips.
But certainly it didn't comeeasy and I really bucked the
(09:00):
thought that I could do this.
So, much so, mo, that peoplewould reach out to me over
LinkedIn like publishers, andsay, oh, have you thought about
writing a book, I'd love to workwith you?
And I just ignored them all.
I really did Like for, I wouldsay, a good year and a half.
I just didn't take up anybodyon the offer.
And then somebody reached outto me who is the publisher that
(09:20):
I did use, and it was just theway she reached out.
I thought you know what?
I should be open to it.
I was closing it down beforeeven investigating it, and when
I had the conversation with herI thought, yeah, if I'm going to
do it, I want to do it with you.
And then we just started theprocess.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And I'm going to correlate this to how you help
clients in your book.
But I think one of the thingsthat we face going through
career transitions right now isthe inner critic.
That's one of the biggesthurdles that we have to just
really learn to break through.
I want to correlate thatthrough your experience, because
(10:04):
the inner critic was probablypresent starting to write your
book.
It was a barrier that you hadto navigate and get through,
jump over.
What was that like for youinitially?
How did you tame it?
We, we obviously know theoutcome, but I want to know how
(10:25):
did you tame it so that you canget the success that you were
able to achieve.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, and I would say , just like looking for work or
doing anything in life.
I had some support with this,like I wasn't in a vacuum
writing this book.
I had a writing coach.
Her name is Amy.
I'm still in touch with hereven though the book is
published.
One of the things that Amyoffered up for me very early.
There were two things thatreally helped me keep going.
(10:51):
One is she said just do it.
Like she said don't wait forthe perfect conditions to write
a chapter.
And I had to give her a chapterevery single week, so I had
deadlines and that kind of thing.
But she said don't wait for theperfect conditions, like
sitting by the fireplace with aglass of wine and computer in
(11:14):
hand and feeling all motivated,like now.
That doesn't describe a lot ofmoments in the day.
But she said just make apractice of writing every day.
And she said just do it.
So she said just put somethingdown on paper, because when we
just get ourselves going,oftentimes it flows.
And she was really right withthat.
(11:35):
If I put down one sentence, onesentence led to two to three to
four.
So that helped a lot just tokeep the motivation going.
But the other thing that sheshared and this was 100% true.
She just said don't get marriedto what you write.
Like she said it will change inediting so that can be a
roadblock for a lot of writers.
(11:56):
Like they want it to soundperfect and they want it to like
just sound a certain way and ifthere's going to be a change
it's hard to adjust to.
And she said the two of themwould really go together because
the just do it and write itreally fed into.
If you're just writing, you'renot getting married to the
outcome.
(12:17):
You know it's going to change,which relieves the pressure.
You don't have to put thispressure on yourself to write to
be like Mel Robbins and sell akajillion books based on
basically four words.
I don't know if you've read anyMel Robbins, but she's hugely
successful as an author and Icould remove the pressure from
(12:38):
myself.
I'm not necessarily going to beher, but if I just do it and I
share the strategies that I knoware going to help job seekers,
I'm just giving myself a way in.
So I would say that wasguidance that really helped me.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
One thing that I have to add to your story there is I
have this tagline that I use inmy emails the most effective
way to do it is to do it Is todo it Saying that.
So that's just.
You're putting a big Kool-Aidsmile on my face and doing that.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
And it's not simple.
Right, but it's not simple,it's hard.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
But how does that carry over to someone who is
struggling in career transition?
Who is struggling in careertransition?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
and the concepts in your book help them with that
transition.
Yeah, I can directly relate thechallenges that I had writing
the book to somebody who is in ajob search.
I speak with clients every weekwho are stuck in their search
and the reason why they're stuckin their search is they're
putting all this pressure onthemselves, like I was with the
book and writing it, putting allthis pressure on themselves to
(13:52):
find the perfect job, likewriting the perfect chapter.
Yeah, that doesn't exist andit's going to morph and change
With job seeking.
It doesn't have to be all ornothing and sometimes people
would just get so overwhelmed byactivities in their job search
so they would just do nothing.
One of the things that I workwith people on is taking
(14:13):
something that seems like it's aroadblock.
It's maybe it's really big,it's overwhelming.
I'll give you an exampleupdating your resume or updating
your LinkedIn profile seemshuge, right as a task.
So I would work with them andsay, okay, so updating your
resume, what would be thetiniest step you could take
(14:36):
where you could do something foryour resume, even if you didn't
do the whole thing with the aimthat something's always better
than nothing?
Somebody might say, oh, likeI'll write a bullet, an
achievement bullet, to supportwhat I did in my last job.
I said there you go, so makethat your goal Then if that's
the only thing you do for yourresume, that's okay because
(14:57):
you've done something.
One achievement statement isbetter than zero achievement
statements and I find thatbreaking down approach into like
taking something big and makingthings really small.
It just allows job seekers toexperience the incremental
progress of doing somethingevery day and just being
(15:19):
consistent.
Be consistent, show up, dosomething, even if the something
is seven minutes, becauseyou'll feel better about
yourself that you did somethingfor seven minutes as opposed to
doing nothing that obviously waszero minutes.
So that's something that helpsjob seekers quite a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And that's powerful, because our mind, the inner
critic, makes it bigger thanwhat it really is right.
Oh my gosh, we got to redo ourresume.
That's going to take about amonth and all of this effort and
energy, but what you're saying?
No, let's take baby steps.
Comproach.
What can we do today.
(16:01):
What's one action we can dotoday to build towards a better
resume?
That's it.
Let's focus on that.
Even me just saying this, itseems more calm.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You're actually doing something.
And the other thing that Ioffer to job seekers and I talk
about this in my book as well isthe idea around like, what is
progress to you?
So a lot of people that I workwith, they feel that they're not
making any headway unless theyget an offer.
(16:36):
So, like in their mind, joboffer equals job search success,
with no room to accept progresson other funds, and then they
declare themselves a failure ifthey're not getting offers.
So I'll break that down withthem as well and I'll say okay,
let's just talk about your wins.
And that's actually one of thequestions I ask my clients
(16:57):
before I meet with them is I'llsend them a series of four
questions and the top one istell me what wins you've
experienced, big and small, thatyou've experienced since the
last time we got together and wewere talking and a win could be
yeah, like I asked somebody fora recommendation for my
LinkedIn profile like that's awin, and I'm trying to help them
(17:19):
understand that's progress too,because you're doing something
and you're getting thatrecommendation and you're
putting it on your profile.
That's a win.
And I encourage job seekers tothink about looking for work.
Do you plant anything?
Do you have a garden or likeflowers or like anything like
that around your place, or knowsomebody that that does that
(17:40):
kind of thing?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, I have a lawn.
I have a little rose gardenarea.
Oh nice, I set it up, I put itthere, but it was iterated, I
didn't do it all in one day.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
No, of course not.
So the reason you're probablywondering why did I bring up
like planting and vegetablegardens and stuff like that?
It's because, like, even to setit up right, like in order to
see the roses come up, you haveto create the right conditions
and you have to tend to thoseplants, otherwise nothing's
going to happen.
So I equate it to a job searchby saying okay, so imagine
(18:17):
you're planting something,whatever it is, you got to push
the seeds down into the groundand then you cover it up, right,
you water it, but you make surethat there's enough sun.
Now, if you look at that patchin your rose garden every day,
you're going to see for a whilethe same thing nothing, because
(18:37):
you can't see what happened withthe seed, except that seed
under the soil is starting togrow, it's starting to bring
shoots, and then, as soon as itbreaks through the soil, oh, now
you see the fruits of yourlabor.
On a job search, I want jobseekers to know that progress is
happening, even if you can'tsee it, which means progress is
(19:01):
not just the beautiful roseplant, which takes some time,
and I like how you said you gotsome help to set it up.
In a job search, we need helpas well.
It's not meant to do on our own.
So for people to say, oh, myjob search is a failure because
I'm not getting any offers, holdon.
Let's look at all the wins, theprogress, the incremental
things that are happening, andincremental progress against
(19:25):
incremental progress is, overtime, going to amount to a
larger step forward.
It's a tough realization.
It takes a bit of time.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, and there's a lot of self-awareness that needs
to be present as well, becausethere's an internal process that
you're going through.
I know we're looking at it froma job search standpoint, but as
you're doing certain activitiesin that job search, you're
growing from that standpoint aswell.
(19:53):
Right, If you have to, let'sjust say, update a section of
your resume about yourexperience, you have to
sometimes take a deep dive.
Maybe some tips from youjournal, try journaling the good
things that you remember thatyou did well in your job.
And then how do we transferthat over into this description
(20:17):
of your experience?
Yeah, Generates internal growthfor you.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Absolutely, and you know what.
I'm glad that you brought thatup, because I would say, like
that's another struggle I seewith people looking for work,
which is why I have a wholechapter all about branding and
how you can represent yourachievements, because a number
of people that I work withoftentimes what has caused
(20:42):
somebody to even just exploreworking with me is they say I've
been at this job search for awhile, I'm applying for jobs,
I'm not getting them.
Or I'm interviewing, notgetting the job.
And when you really delve intoit, the realization of that the
person has is, yeah, there maybe not as much in tune with what
their value is.
(21:03):
So, yeah, you can tell me allthe things that you've done, but
why is that meaningful?
Why is it significant?
If you strip everything away,what's the value that you offer?
And, mo, I still rememberworking with this one individual
and he was a bus driver here inOttawa and, with his resume,
(21:24):
trying to get him to write anachievement statement, he was
totally stuck.
And when I asked him like whereis the roadblock?
What is the roadblock?
And he said I'm just doing myjob, like I'm not doing anything
special, I'm literally justfulfilling my job description.
I said okay, what then?
Even though you were fillingall the job description, tell me
(21:44):
a bit about the impact.
Brainstorming with him, herealized that, yes, he's driving
a bus and he's dropping peopleoff and he's picking them up,
but there were some core thingsthat he had to do that enriched
people's experience.
One he had to be really skilledat handling very challenging
(22:06):
emotions, like strong emotions.
Some people who ride the busare not necessarily nice
Unfortunately, I've experiencedthat so he had to be skilled at
navigating those emotions.
He also needed to bewell-versed in lots of different
accommodations.
Like people who ride the busall have varied needs and some
(22:30):
individuals needed someaccommodations.
He needed to know what thosewere and how to offer them.
He also needed to make quickdecisions in the moment that
protected the safety of hispassengers.
And those were just a few.
And when we were talking aboutit, he realized, okay, yeah,
like I'm doing my job, if he didany of those things poorly,
(22:51):
people would complain about him.
They wouldn't want to be on hisroute.
They'd probably try to findanother way to get to work.
All negative outcomes, but hehad lots of positive outcomes.
Connecting with your value is abig part of looking for work
and articulating that value issomething that people struggle
with, and that's what's in thebook.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
That's exactly what my next question was going to be
.
How do you help readers of yourbook articulate what their
values is or what their purposeis?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I have a bit of a formula, a framework that I will
break down for clients to helpthem come up with that, and it's
basically the information thatyou need to put into your
achievement statement bullet.
So these are the bullets thatappear below each of your jobs,
chronologically under the workexperience section of your
(23:42):
resume, and the framework iseach of those statements needs
to include what you did.
That could be from your jobdescription.
That's fine, what you did, buthow did you do it?
And I say include the so what.
So what you led a project Like,why was it important,
significant, what kind ofresults and outcomes did you
(24:02):
achieve?
And so how I get people to likejust get more familiar with
their value, is a if they haveaccess to like performance
reviews, I asked them to readthrough those because the value
is certainly threaded throughthere.
I also ask them to ask peoplego to people who they used to
(24:25):
work with maybe former directorsor managers and ask them what
are two examples of times whereI offered value to you?
What was I doing and why was itsignificant, so you can get
some good ideas.
There was I doing and why wasit significant, so you can get
some good ideas there.
The other way to come to it isuse chat, gpt, dictate
(24:45):
everything about something thatyou did, something that you were
proud of, something that peoplegave you some positive feedback
on, and just talk about it inchat, gpt and then ask chat or
whatever AI you use.
Develop one achievementstatement for my resume that is
concise and includes thefollowing three points, and this
(25:09):
is where you ask for includethe what, the how and the so
what, and it will takeeverything and distill it and
pop out a nice concise butimpactful achievement statement
for your resume.
Those are some ways that I willwork with people to get
connected to what they do andget them just remembering what
(25:30):
they do.
And yeah, sometimes people areastounded that I say what ask
people Like why would I want toask people?
Others will hold.
They will see things maybe alittle bit different than you,
so something that you'rethinking is a I was just doing
my job thing.
It might be really impactful tosomebody else.
We just need to ask them.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Is that?
Is it laid out in your book aswell about how to take that
approach?
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, I think it's a chapter.
I'm trying to think what is mybranding chapter?
Oh, chapter five.
Chapter five is called what'sin a brand?
And all of that is in there.
Hold the book up.
Why didn't I do that before?
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Okay, because on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I was really proud it got to number one bestseller
status when it came out in thethree categories that it's
offered in.
I know one of the categories isstill number 20, which astounds
me because it came out inFebruary.
I know that you like to offeryour listeners something, so
I've got a gift, of course, foryour listeners, which is people
are going to be able to access afree chapter from the book and,
(26:35):
if you like what you read, thelink is going to be in there.
I know that you're going tosend to everybody as part of the
show notes where you can orderthe whole thing.
I try to make it accessible topeople and the fact that it's
part workbook and part tips justgives people a way to apply
what they're learning directlyto their job search, like in the
moment.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I know we're running out of time, but I got to bring
this up.
There's so many people duringthis time of career transition.
What's happening in our jobenvironment?
They're struggling.
They need resilience right now.
How do you help people?
People establish thatresiliency in the book.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, that's such a great question.
So in my book, chapter nine iscalled this Is Not your Forever
Place, and I very intentionallywrote a chapter that is all
about the limiting beliefs thatwe can have, that inner critic
that gets in the way, and how towork with that inner critic and
(27:43):
those limiting beliefs.
I also talk about how tonavigate the strong emotions
that can come with looking forwork, especially for somebody
who has lost their job.
It is called the sudden pain ofjob loss, for good reason.
It is very painful for people.
Some people experience deep,deep shame because they think,
(28:07):
okay, I lost my job because Iwas a poor performer, that must
be why I lost my job.
And so how I work with peopleto help them dismantle, that is
first of all to help themdismantle.
That is first of all to helpthem see that that, yes, they
have lost their job and it'sincredibly uncomfortable, but
(28:29):
they are not the only one.
Is it really realistic thathundreds of thousands of people
were bad performers?
No, of course not, andsometimes, for somebody who's
really stuck, I'll ask them ifthey share that.
Oh yeah, like a friend of mine,those lost their job and they
found another job and I saidwhat did you think about your
(28:50):
friend when they lost their job?
Did you think that they were abad performer and they got what
was coming to them somehow?
And of course, the person wouldsay, oh, this person's very
talented, they are soknowledgeable and they're like a
really good employee.
And I'll say is it possiblethat others would say the same
thing about you?
You know that you were a reallygreat employee, you were very
(29:10):
supportive, you were a teamperson, you stepped up, you were
like, shared your expertisevery graciously.
Is it possible that othersmight say the same about you?
And then they're like yeah, soI'll work with people and just
give them new language.
The other thing to help them bemore resilient as well is and
(29:31):
this is in the book about how doyou frame your leave story.
So, if you have been let go forany reason, how do you tell the
story of your departure and Mo,I'm not kidding when I say this
.
I have clients who will avoidsocial engagements because they
don't want anybody to ask themwhat they do or if they know
(29:51):
that they're looking.
How's your job search going?
They just don't want to answerthe questions.
So I'll give them the frameworkof how to answer.
Like position, the leave story.
Talk about the fact that youwere restructured.
Business decision was made toeliminate your position.
Maybe it was a mass layoff, butthen talk about something you
were proud of, to show that itwasn't a performance decision
(30:11):
and connect something that youlove about your last job to what
it is that you're talking tothat person about now.
Like it's about managing themessage.
It's about believing themessage and knowing that people
are there to that person aboutnow.
Like it's about managing themessage.
It's about believing themessage and knowing that people
are there to help.
I really encourage.
In fact, one of the firstquestions I'll ask a client when
I first start working with themis tell me who's in your
support network.
Who have you already reached outto to let them know that you
(30:34):
were looking and to get somesupport?
Most people are open withpeople who are in their family.
But and to get some support,most people are open with people
who are in their family.
But there are a few clients whoone in particular I remember
she waited six months to tellher adult children that she was
let go.
She had been with the companyfor over 25 years and was just
completely blindsided andthought it was her fault, and so
(30:57):
she wasn't going to tellanybody for the longest time.
Part of what I do is helpingpeople with the tactical aspects
of looking for work, but Iwould say there's a big
emotional component which is whyI felt a job search is not
complete unless you acknowledgethe emotions that you have and
those limiting beliefs and thatchapter nine is all about that
(31:19):
and ways to reframe that into apositive and productive action
for yourself and for your search.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And kudos to you for including that, because that's
big and we talk a lot about theinner critic here.
The limiting beliefs fearthings like that and that's when
it's biggest.
When you lost your job, right,you carry this judgment about
yourself.
Just what you just sharedaround a mom losing her job and
(31:47):
not telling her adult kids forsix months.
That's the inner critic highlypresent.
You can't say anything.
They're going to think A, b, cand D.
And then the other thing thatyou mentioned was some of the
shame that people carry and theyavoid the social engagements.
(32:10):
I like that you have that inyour book as well to be able to
help them flip the script,because there's always
opportunity in those socialgatherings engagements and if
you are a well-respectedindividual amongst your circle,
it's the inner critic firstthat's talking you out of
(32:32):
leaning on them for support,because if they admire you, love
you, honor you, respect you,they want to help you.
They want to help you, theywant to support you and you
don't know who they know of whothey know Exactly.
So many layers out.
If we use the opportunity toflip it and look for
(32:55):
opportunities, it's huge.
It's a win-win.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yes, exactly, and it's doing things like that
really build the confidence, butbuild the ability to ride the
waves.
No joke, because I've gonethrough a job search twice, I
know that there are ups anddowns.
Sometimes the ups and downs arevery prominent.
From the up to the down couldbe a big drop day by day.
(33:19):
And that's why I say to peoplelike this is not your forever
place.
You will not be unemployedforever.
You will not be in a job searchforever.
You will find work thatenergizes you for an
organization that believes whatyou believe in.
Thinking of Simon Sinek and thewhy, that's my, why, that's my
Simon Sinek, why Sharing thatphrase I've had people quote me
(33:42):
on that in other circles, whichis hilarious because it tells me
it resonates for people, but itis so true.
It's hard to see in the momentwhen you're in a discouraging
job search.
It's hard to see that you'renot going to be in this place
forever, because it just feelslike you are.
And that's why I find engagingsupport.
Don't insulate yourself fromthe people that love and want to
(34:06):
help you.
Do seek out support, do acceptoffers of help, because those
things give you some strength,especially in a very tough job
search.
Can you be found again?
Yeah, a few ways.
So my website is the easiestway.
It's mshafercoachingca.
If you want to access that freechapter, you just tack on a
(34:28):
slash cultivating career growthat the end of that website
address.
Linkedin is a really greatplace as well.
I'm posting, I'd say at leastfive out of every seven days
about looking for work, aboutexploring new career paths, and
for any listener who is lookingfor work, maybe you're feeling
pretty frustrated and you'd likea conversation.
(34:48):
I do offer a complimentarydiscovery conversation, and so
the link for that is also on mywebsite on the Contact Us page.
A few different ways to get ahold of me.
If you do buy the book, I'dlove to hear what you think of
it and especially what part ofit really jumped out for you.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I appreciate you, Michelle.
I really do.
You're such a value to so manypeople out there.
I trust you that whoeverreaches out, you will make sure
that they're equipped with theright tools, resources to take
the first step in their jobsearch.
So proud of you andcongratulations on the book
(35:26):
again.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Thank you, thanks so much and thank you for having me
on the show again.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Thank you for joining me in this episode of let's
Think About it.
Your time and attention aregreatly appreciated.
If you found value in today'sdiscussion, I encourage you to
subscribe on your favoritepodcast platform.
Remember, the journey ofself-improvement is ongoing and
I'm here to support you everystep of the way.
(35:52):
Connect with me on social mediafor updates and insights.
You can find me on Instagramand Facebook, at Coach Mo,
coaching or LinkedIn, at MauriceMabry, or visit my website at
mauricemabrycom for exclusivecontent.
Until next time, keepreflecting, keep growing and,
(36:14):
most importantly, keep believingin yourself.
Importantly, keep believing inyourself.
Remember, the most effectiveway to do it is to do it
Together.
We're making incredible stridestoward a better and more
empowered you.
So thank you, and I'll see youin our next episode.
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