February 9, 2025 • 37 mins
🎢 After a career rollercoaster ride that included two restructures, Michelle Schafer found her true calling in career coaching. 🌟 Discover how her transition from the financial sector to the not-for-profit world was driven by a deep commitment to community service and volunteering. ❤️ Michelle shares her inspiring journey, highlighting the importance of aligning personal values with those of an organization to achieve true job satisfaction. 💼✨ Her story is a powerful reminder of the courage it takes to pivot professionally and the fulfillment that comes from understanding your "why." 💪
😨 Facing fears head-on, especially when stepping away from the security of a stable job, can feel overwhelming. Michelle opens up about her initial apprehensions and the strategies that helped her embrace entrepreneurship. 🌱 From networking with experienced coaches to building a strong foundation within an organization before going solo, Michelle emphasizes the significance of self-belief and resourcefulness. 🚀 Her insights are invaluable for anyone considering a career change, especially those venturing into coaching or entrepreneurship. 💡📈
🌍 In a world of constant change, where organizational shifts can lead to job insecurity, Michelle offers a beacon of hope. 🕊️ She explores the empowerment found in making career choices that resonate with personal beliefs and values. 📖 Through real-life success stories—like a restaurant owner transitioning to senior project manager—Michelle illustrates the transformative power of identifying transferable skills and exploring new paths. 🔄 Her upcoming book, Cultivating Career Growth: Navigating Transitions with Purpose, promises to be a helpful resource for those seeking guidance. 📚 Michelle leaves listeners with actionable steps and encouragement, reassuring them that with the right mindset and support, fulfilling career transitions are within reach. 🌈🙌
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the let's Think About it podcast, where we
embark on a journey ofthoughtfulness and personal
growth.
I'm your host, Coach Mo, andI'm here to guide you through
thought-promoting discussionsthat will inspire you to unlock
your full potential.
In each episode, we'll explorea wide range of topics, from
self-discovery and mindfulnessto goal-setting and achieving
(00:33):
success.
Together, we'll challengeconventional thinking and dive
deep into the realms ofpossibility.
Whether you're looking to findclarity in your personal or
professional life, or seekingstrategies to overcome obstacles
, this podcast is your go-tosource for insightful
conversations and practicaladvice.
So find a comfortable spot,chill and let's embark on this
(00:57):
journey of self-improvementtogether.
Remember, the power oftransformation lies within you,
and together we'll uncover thetools and insights you need to
make it happen.
So let's dive in.
Welcome to another episode ofthe let's Think About it podcast
(01:20):
.
I'm your host, Coach Mo, andI'm here with another amazing
guest.
This time we have MichelleSchaefer.
Michelle, what's up?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Mo, how's it going?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
It's going great.
It's going great.
I'm so happy that you're here.
The last time we talked therewas a lot of synergy.
But before we get into ourconversation, where are you
checking in from around thecountry?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So I am calling in from Ottawa, Canada, where today
it's freezing cold.
It's not the same case for you,I know.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Canada.
Oh, my goodness, it's got to becold.
You're approaching that verycold winter right.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Oh, yes, yeah, Today.
Actually, it felt like minus 26degrees Celsius this morning,
and so there is ice.
If you like to ice skate, thisis where you go.
In fact, in Ottawa we have acanal that is over 15 kilometers
long, that, when it's reallycold, it freezes, and it's the
(02:25):
world's largest skating rink.
So for all of your listeners,if you didn't know, that Ottawa,
canada, is the home of theworld's largest skating rink.
You know now, and this thinghas been open and I've been
skating just about every morning.
It's been fabulous.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
It sounds great, but I want to know part of it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's okay, mo, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I don't do well in all the heat either.
I'm that in-between guy.
That's why I like California,but something that does get
really hot.
We hit triple digits quiteoften and I don't do well in the
heat either.
But enough about that, enoughabout that.
Tell my audience who you areand what you do.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
For sure.
So I'm a career coach.
I specialize in careertransition and leadership
development, and I helpindividuals navigate career
transitions with confidence tohelp them find work that
energizes them for companiesthat believe what they believe
in, and I like to think of thatas my why Like.
Why am I a career coach?
(03:27):
Because I really do believethat people everywhere are
entitled and have the right tobe able to find work that lights
them up, and also that they canwork for an organization that
has the same values as them, andI find like when those two
things come together, people aremore fulfilled.
People have that energy,they're proud about their work,
(03:49):
they talk about their work withother people, and I want to help
people find that.
So I actually work with them ona whole system to help them
find work that they really love.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
That's awesome, but what's resonating with me?
You said the why?
Yes, take me through me.
You said the why Take methrough.
How did you discover the whyfor yourself and getting into
this line of work?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, that is such a great question.
It's funny because, you know,as a coach, I love hearing about
the stories of other people.
I know you do as well, and Ihave a story of my own too.
So my story what led me tocoaching was actually being
restructured, not just once, buttwice over the course of my
career.
(04:31):
So my role was eliminated.
I was thrust into the jobmarket because of different
business decisions andorganizational changes, and I
think it's funny thatrestructuring led me to coaching
and that's what I helpindividuals with.
Now.
Some of the clients I work withare ones who have lost their
jobs, and so when I wasrestructured the first time, I
(04:53):
realized that I didn't want tostay in the kind of work that I
was in.
I was actually with a largenational bank for 18 years, like
from high school plus 18 yearsand when I lost my job it was
really unsettling because I'dbeen with the same organization
for 18 years.
I never had to like network forwork, I never really had to
(05:15):
interview because people knew meand my reputation was able to
carry me.
But I found myself in likeuncertain, unstable territory
where I needed to navigate a bigcareer transition and I knew I
didn't want to stay in financialservices.
I knew I wanted to get intonot-for-profit.
I've been a volunteer likeprobably since the age of my
early teens.
(05:36):
I'm going to credit my parentsfor instilling a very strong
commitment to the community withmyself and my brother.
And when I reinvented myselfthe first time I wanted to do
something different, but Ididn't really know how I was
going to get there.
I had the support of a coach,so I was really grateful.
The organization that dideliminate my position gave me a
(05:58):
coach to work with, and so Ilearned a lot about how to
navigate a career transition,how to process those really
tricky emotions, those limitingbeliefs that stand in our way,
and develop some strategies tohelp me find my next job.
And that led me intonot-for-profit.
I was working then for like alarge national cancer
(06:18):
organization and, about fiveyears into that particular role,
a friend of mine who is a coach, a very good friend of mine, my
friend Val she just saidsomething like just offhand one
day.
She said I never understood whyyou didn't get into coaching as
a career path and at the time Isaid, ah, I love what I'm doing
, like I'm working with thesevolunteers who all support
(06:41):
people living with cancer, andfor different reasons.
I had negotiated a five day aweek job to three days so I
could be at home with my kidswhen they were young.
So at the time I said why wouldI wanna do anything different?
I love my job, I love thepeople I work with.
But then restructure number twohit.
My role at the cancerorganization was eliminated too,
(07:02):
and I remembered what she said,even though there was probably
a period of a year and a halffrom the time that she planted
that seed to the time that Iconsciously thought about it
again and I did remember whatshe said about coaching and it
made me realize.
You know, I've actually beencoaching in different roles,
like off the corner of my desk.
It was always a piece of my job, and with the second job
(07:25):
elimination, it just made methink maybe this is the universe
telling me that I should followthis path, that I should at
least investigate it and see ifit's for me, and that's what
really led me to do somethingabout it.
I started talking to coachesabout why they coach, the joys
of it, the challenges of it, howthey coach.
(07:46):
I talked to other career coaches, leadership coaches parenting
coaches, financial coaches likehealth and wellness coaches,
marriage coaches, like alldifferent types and I realized,
a this is something I want to doand, b I realized I wanted to
apply coaching in the careerspace because I was given a
(08:08):
coach and I know what thatexperience was like and how
awesome it would be to be ableto help people who were in my
circumstance.
So I got a certification, so Iwent and did some formal coach
training and was eventuallyregistered with the
International CoachingFederation, which I know you are
as well, mo ICF exactly, and Istarted my own practice and I
(08:34):
just I haven't turned back.
That was definitely the rightmove for me.
But I joke with people that,like, I've been coaching now for
almost 10 years and I joke thatat age 46, which was almost 10
years ago now that I finallyfigured out what I was going to
do for almost 10 years.
And I joke that at age 46,which was almost 10 years ago
now, that I finally figured outwhat I was going to do when I
grew up and it's just the mostfulfilling work and that's my
(08:54):
story.
It's a story of beingrestructured, getting really
uncomfortable, going throughcareer transition and
remembering those planted seedsthat eventually really led to
somewhere.
Very rewarding for me.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Thank you for sharing that.
I want to take it a littledeeper though.
Yeah, I want to get into.
Let's think about it.
Ok, so you shared yourexperience from a macro
perspective, and particularlythe last job restructure.
Ok, let's take a look at that.
It happened the second time.
What was the inner criticsaying in those moments?
(09:30):
What was the inner criticsaying in those moments?
How did the fear show up?
And then how did you navigatethat to get the confidence to
propel forward?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, that's such a great question because when you
touched on something right,there is like the fear and those
limiting beliefs right, whichcan crop up any time that we're
looking to make a change, anychange in our life, Like we're
talking right now in the contextof career.
But you know, anytime we make achange in our relationships or
our friendships or somethingthat we're deciding to do, those
fears can crop up.
(10:07):
And you're absolutely right.
If I'm honest with myself and Itake myself back to especially
when that second restructurehappened and I started to look
into coaching, there was a lotof fear.
There was a lot of uncertainty,because I had always worked for
large national organizations.
I had always had a securesalary, a benefits package,
(10:29):
vacation time, all of thosekinds of things.
And here I was by looking intogetting into coaching and
following that as a career path.
What I was admitting to myselfand accepting for myself is I am
now looking into anentrepreneurial path.
Yes, there are some largercoaching organizations, but most
(10:52):
of the coaching is doneindependently or as part of like
small, really boutique firms.
So I needed to accept that if Iwas going to pursue coaching,
there was a very good chancethat I was going to be
establishing myself as a solebusiness owner, as a sole
proprietor, and that was reallyscary because of the there there
(11:13):
is no certainty as anentrepreneur as there's no
secure income.
The income is very variablewhen you start off, like there's
a period of time where maybeyou're not even making anything
at all or you're making very lowincome, and so I was afraid.
I was afraid, first of all, amI making the right choice?
Am I actually making the rightdecision?
(11:33):
But I was also really had wasafraid, first of all, am I
making the right choice?
Am I actually making the rightdecision?
But I was also really had tothink seriously about okay, how
am I going to navigate thisunstable income?
And so what gave me theconfidence?
There were a few things.
One the first thing was when Iwas exploring coaching and I was
talking to other coaches and,in essence, I was networking
with other coaches.
I needed to learn more.
(11:54):
The last person that I did somenetworking with turned out to
be the teacher for my firstlevel of coaching certification.
I didn't know of it then, butwhen I talked to her and I was
asking her questions about whyshe got into coaching and all of
what I was doing with othercoaches.
She said to me partway throughthe conversation, she looked at
(12:14):
me and she said you don't needme to tell you that this is the
right path.
You actually already have theanswers within you.
And I sat there and I said youknow what?
I think you're right, Like Iwas looking for people to
validate this choice of mine andthe reality was I didn't need
anybody to validate it.
(12:35):
I actually knew it, even thoughit was new and it was uncertain
and a bit uncomfortable and wasgoing to require a whole lot of
work and time and energy, lotsof investment.
I did know so I'd say that wasthe first thing was hearing from
people that, yeah, this I wouldbe a good fit for that.
So that made me feel morecomfortable and confident in
terms of the choice.
(12:55):
The second thing that reallyhelped me was at the time I was
able to get into a smallbusiness, like a small business
program that gets you started asan entrepreneur and you have
access to a business consultantto help you with your business
plan.
You have access to people whohelp you with your website, with
your accounting, like all thestuff that you need to know as
(13:16):
an entrepreneur, like yourpricing and like how do you
market yourself, how do you talkabout yourself.
So I did engage with someexperts that really helped me
with that and they gave me areally solid foundation that I
was able to build from.
So, like, those two thingstogether really helped me quite
a lot.
And I would say the third thingwas really engaging with the
(13:38):
support that was around me, likefamily members, friends, other
entrepreneurs that I knew that Icould talk to and say, oh my
gosh, did you feel like thiswhen you first started?
And to be able to not only landall of those fears and concerns,
but to be able to not only landall of those fears and concerns
, but to be able to talk yourway through them and to reframe
those limiting beliefs and thelimiting beliefs that told me I
(14:01):
can't do this or I'm too old,Like 46 is too old to be
starting something new.
That's a limiting beliefbecause you can start something
new at any age.
Some of my clients start likestart their own business at age
like 64.
Like you don't, you don't haveto wait, and so it was immensely
(14:21):
valuable to work through all ofthat with other people that
were encouraging.
For me, it was aboutsurrounding myself with positive
energy and also surroundingmyself with people that I could
rely on, that I could get theirinput and their experience, and
all of that really culminated toproviding me with a really
(14:41):
solid foundation to take thosesteps forward.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That's awesome.
I love how you really clarifiedand took us through that
process and I want to share myexperience.
When I came through thecoaching right yeah, most people
that come through coachingthey're coming out and they want
to start a business, right, andI love your approach of what
you did to create a foundationmy approach was a little bit
(15:06):
different, in a sense that Iwant to create a coaching
foundation in the organizationthat I work for right, and doing
that, it gave me the confidenceto practice with clients which
were the internal employees, andI've ultimately built a
business within an organizationand created my own position,
(15:31):
built my own coaching team andthat's what I do.
I coach full time and managethe unit coaching and career
development and it's directparallel.
So now, as I build MabryEnterprises externally right, I
have the confidence to do thatbecause I built the experience
(15:52):
and the foundation internallywith the organization to create
a win for them.
Yeah, that was my focus when.
What can I do to help elevatethe leaders in this department
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
You know it's really interesting as you're talking,
mo, I mean what comes up for meis and I can feel this and just
the energy that you're bringingto this conversation Like when
you have the energy and you'refired up about something and you
have the courage to be able toessentially create a career path
or enter a career path thatspeaks to that kind of work that
(16:28):
really does fill you up and youpair it with doing that work
that you enjoy within anorganization that has a strong
values alignment, I like to saybelieves the same things that
you believe in, then like thosetwo things together are going to
help you like feel like you'remaking a difference, feel like
(16:50):
you're fulfilled and when you'refulfilled, you are like less
likely to start looking around,you're less likely to do that
thing you hear about, like quiet, quitting and like dialing back
slowly on the work that you'redoing.
You're less likely to do thosethings and you're more likely to
talk to leaders and say, hey, Iwant to do more of this kind of
(17:11):
work or how do I partner withyou?
How can we collaborate and justexpanding outside of what it is
that you're doing?
And like talking to individualslike yourself who clearly love
the work that they're doing andhave, like, really built that
for themselves.
It's so empowering.
It's empowering but then it'sjust the reward that you get
(17:33):
from.
That is like you can't put aprice tag on it.
And when I talk to clients thatdon't want to go to work on
Monday, on Sunday, they're likedreading, it's another week.
So when I talk to individualswho are dreading going to work
or are just talking aboutfalling out of love with their
work or maybe they're withorganizations that they really
(17:54):
don't jive or agree with theleadership there's been some
leadership shifts and that'scaused them to second guess,
like what it is that they'redoing and where they're doing it
.
Those are the people I want tohelp.
It's the individuals.
Some of them are ones that areactively looking for work
because they've been in asituation like me they've lost
their job.
But there's more and more peoplenow and I think the pandemic
(18:15):
has really clued this in wherepeople are thinking about what's
important to them, they'rereflecting on it and they're
holding it up against whatthey're doing and where they're
doing it, and they're realizingthat there's some misalignment,
that the work that they're doingnow isn't ticking their big
boxes.
It doesn't align with the workthat gives them energy.
(18:36):
It doesn't align with the kindof organization they want to be
part of, and those are thepeople that are starting to come
to me because they want clarity.
They don't know where to go,but they know.
They don't want to do whatthey're doing anymore, but they
don't know what that next stepis, and so being able to clear
the fog for them and give themthat clarity through a
structured process is ultimatelylike the reward for me.
(18:59):
When I see clients find thatnext job where they're leaving
something that they didn'treally enjoy too much, that's a
huge reward.
I'm a witness to the progressof my clients and the reward is
really the individuals going onto different things.
They're going to feel thatenergy in their work and we both
know that's a special thing.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
That's a special place to be.
But I'm going to tap intosomething else that you said.
You said courage and that wordis really resonating with me
right now, and here's why I knowyou're in Canada, we're in the
United States.
We just had an administrationchangeover.
Oh yes, there's a lot ofrestructuring happening as we
speak.
I know People are being toldnot to come back.
(19:42):
You got to come into the officefull time now.
Just a lot of restructure andthat's generating a lot of fear.
When you talk about couragebecause you mentioned courage
how do you work with yourclients to establish that
courage to navigate in timeslike this when there's
(20:03):
uncertainty about the structureand the places that they work?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, and that's a very timely question, certainly
connecting it to world events.
Right now too, and in Canadatoo, we're experiencing our own
shifts and an administrationchange that is very likely
that's going to create somechanges, certainly in our
markets as well.
And when I think of courage, Ithink of choice.
(20:28):
And when I think of choice, Ithink of empowering.
If I were to take a step back,one of the things that I'll say
to clients of mine, like whenthey some will come to me and
they'll say like I'm stuck, likeI can't do anything, this
situation sucks and I can't doanything about it for a variety
(20:48):
of reasons, and so I'll explorethat with them.
So in what ways do you feelyou're stuck?
If you could do anything, whatwould that be?
What would be some options thatwould be available to you?
Not to say you're going topursue any of these immediately,
but let's just brainstorm.
What are all the possibilitiesthat you could follow?
And when individuals see that,yeah, they don't love their job
(21:11):
and they don't love where theyare, but there are options where
they can find fulfilling workfor another organization, that
is the courage right.
There is the courage to realize, first of all, that nobody's
telling me I have to stay here.
Now there's financialconsiderations too right, for
example, in our government.
(21:32):
Too right, for example, in ourgovernment.
There's great benefits thepension is one of the biggest
benefits that our governmentoffers and so people feel stuck
because, oh, if I leave thegovernment then I'm going to be
leaving my pension behind.
And when you start to talkabout all the different
considerations yeah, let's, haveyou talked to a financial
planner?
It was one of those questionsLike what are the options for
(21:53):
you financially?
Do you have to stay in thisuntil retirement in order to get
those benefits?
Can you find some of thosebenefits elsewhere?
And when individuals realizethat they have a number of
different options, that thenthey would have to research,
they would have to talk to theirfamily and all of those kinds
of things, because we don't makedecisions just unilaterally
(22:15):
Then it opens up the door forthem.
They realize, okay, I actuallycan take steps forward, I can do
different things.
And for some people, maybe theystay where they are, but they
have now the courage to go andtalk to their leader and say
these things that I'm doing.
I'm not really feeling as muchenergy with them, but here are
(22:36):
some things around me that I'dreally like to get involved in.
So that is courage, even justto stay where you are and try to
figure out is there a way thatI can make this work for me in a
different way than I'mexperiencing it today?
And it is all the empowering.
Yes, you can make a shift.
You know, if you're committedto it, you have to want it.
(22:59):
But when you talk about what arethe pros and cons, what if I,
if I follow this path?
What does it open up for me IfI don't follow this part path?
What does it close down for me?
And all of that widens the viewquite a lot that make different
possibilities possible.
And then to take steps forwardlike this is where a career
(23:21):
coach helps.
Like I'm a conversation partnerwith my clients.
I'm not telling them what to door that, and the hard work is
being done by them, but helpingthem, like for them, to come to
a realization.
You know what?
This is something that I can do.
Can you help me with that?
Okay, yeah, let's put togethera plan that will help you take
those steps and that does takecourage, because it's moving
(23:42):
from a place of I feel like I'mstuck to a place where you
realize you have options andthere's actionable steps that
you can take, even baby stepones that will help you get
closer there.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
But typically, from the viewpoint of feeling stuck,
there's usually limiting beliefsthat are present.
And when limiting beliefs arepresent, you're not seeking
knowledge to dismiss thelimiting beliefs, because in
certain moments you're trying toproject worst case scenario,
because that's what yourexperience has been right and so
(24:17):
what you do.
What I do when we work withclients is help them explore
possibilities by askingempowering and powerful
questions.
When you can ask thoseopen-ended, powerful, empowering
type questions, it makes aperson really pause and think of
(24:38):
alternatives and start to getout of your own way.
Like I always say right, youstart getting this confidence,
(24:58):
you start thinking like man,this is all in my head, that's
right, you're right, I did usedto do that, I was good at that.
But when you don't explore itand you just accept the initial
instincts, the initial instinctto be afraid, that's because a
(25:19):
limiting belief, the innercritic, some sort of assumption,
some sort of interpretation,it's all present.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, it's the narrative right, like it's the
narratives are the.
It's the narrative right.
Our narratives are the storythat we tell ourselves.
Right, it's a story that's inour head.
And you're right, thatnarrative is founded on
assumptions about a thing, anevent, a person, or judgments
about those same things, andwhen we shift to focusing on
(25:48):
facts, that's where we start todebunk our own limiting beliefs.
So, for example, like a numberof my clients who are, they're
in a job search, and one of thebiggest activities in a job
search in order to uncoveropportunities is networking.
It's having one-on-oneconversations like we're having
(26:09):
right now, one-on-oneconversations, obviously focused
on a job search, and there's alot of people who will not want
to do that, and so we, when I'mexploring with them, one of the
limiting beliefs that comes upis people are too busy, so I
can't ask them to help me out, Ican't ask them to have time
with them to talk about theirorganization or how they got
(26:31):
into their career path or any ofthat kind of stuff.
And so I'll say to them so whatevidence do you have to support
that?
And usually the answer isnothing.
There is no actual evidence.
Nobody actually said to themI'm too busy, I can't help you.
But we create this story thatthinks that I can't bother
(26:52):
someone.
And then I'll take it one stepfurther.
As another way of reframingthat belief, I'll say to them so
let's say for a moment that youknow a friend of a friend
reached out to you and let's sayMo, you're a coach, I'm a coach
.
And let's say a friend of yourscomes to you and says you know
what?
I've got a friend who's wantingto get into coaching.
(27:14):
They're not really sure it'sfor them.
Would they be able to have sometime with you and you could
talk about, like how you gotinto it and all of that?
And I'll say to them let's sayyou were on the receiving end of
that question, how would yourespond?
And they would say like ninetimes out of 10, they'd say, of
(27:37):
course I'd help people, help me,I would help them.
So I'd say is it possible thatwhen you're making these
requests of other people thatthey might have some time for
you?
And then people go oh, yeah, Isaid yeah, that's a limiting
belief, right?
The limiting belief is peopleare too busy, they're not going
to say yes, they're just goingto shut me down.
We're making assumptions onthat, but when we realize I
don't have any evidence and Iwould probably respond favorably
(27:57):
if I was on the receiving end.
Now we've reframed thatlimiting belief into something
that tells us, yes, people wantto help and they just want to
know how they can help, butpeople are generous with their
(28:18):
time.
And so the difference in that itilluminates so much and it just
opens up the path for people tostart exploring, to start
making big decisions and choicesthat are their choices to make,
because in the context of ourcareer, we go through our
careers and usually we don't getoff, we don't get off the world
, we don't hit the pause buttonand start to reflect on what's
important to us.
But I encourage people to dothat because when you do, that's
what's going to start to makeyou realize, hey, yeah, I need
(28:41):
something different, I need tobe somewhere else.
But I know now the reasons why,because I have some evidence
that backs that up.
And then when you have a plan,the plan is like very tangible,
very actionable, very practical,can help you move forward and
move away from those limitingbeliefs and into something like
productive and positive activitythat can really support your
(29:02):
career.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Absolutely, Absolutely, and it sounds to me
you bring so much value to yourclients and helping them get out
of their own way to navigatetheir career.
But let me ask you this, as wemove closer to signing out who
is your clients?
What demographics are they?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So my clients, believe it or not, are men,
women, all different sectors,different parts of the US,
canada.
I've got some internationalclients as well, and but the
thing that is common, though, isI really work with two like
groups of individuals.
So, regardless of where you arein your career I would say,
(29:41):
though, I don't work withstudents or individuals like
fresh out of university to helpthem figure out what their path
is Mid-career professionals aretypically the group that I will
work most with, although I haveworked with individuals to help
them carve out a retirement planas well and figure out, like
that, next chapter in theircareer.
But the two groups ofindividuals that come to me that
(30:03):
are in need of my services areindividuals who are dreading the
Mondays, are feeling like,discouraged in their work.
Maybe they're, like undervaluedand not appreciated, really
looking for something new.
Not sure what that is.
So that's group number one.
Group number two are youmentioned at the top of our
(30:24):
conversation, mo?
There's a lot of change rightnow happening in the world,
which means that there'srestructures, there's business
decisions, there's jobeliminations, and all of those
business decisions are affectinghumans.
So I work with individuals whohave found themselves suddenly
out of work and they also areneeding to put together a plan,
find new work usually quicklyand enter the job market and
(30:47):
feel confident navigating thatjob market.
So those two pockets ofindividuals I work with and just
the reward of helping both ofthem find a new path.
For some people they do thesame thing, but somewhere else.
For others, they use it as anopportunity to do something that
maybe they've thought about allof their career.
(31:09):
But now they have anopportunity to do it and they
switch career paths.
I'll give you an example.
In the pandemic I worked withretail store owners and
restaurant owners, because thepandemic was not kind to retail
or hospitality, obviouslyespecially hospitality.
And one of my clients owned arestaurant.
He was in hospitality all ofhis life.
(31:31):
He remembers as a kid likebussing tables because his
family was in the business.
He's never known anythingoutside of being in a restaurant
, but he was at a place where hehad to sell his restaurant.
He realized that was somethinghe wanted to do and together we
were able to work to help himarticulate his transferable
skills those skills that existoutside of hospitality are
(31:52):
sought after in differentindustries.
Help him figure out hisachievements.
Help him figure out what hisnew destination would be like,
what kind of career paths hewant to explore, and then we
created a plan together.
So I like to think of lookingfor work as like going on
vacation not as fun, but youneed to have a destination, you
need to have a plan together.
So I like to think of lookingfor work as like going on
vacation not as fun, but youneed to have a destination, you
need to have a plan.
And so I helped him transitionfrom being a restaurant owner
(32:18):
with, like, only that experience, and he took all of that to be
a senior project manager inconstruction, because there were
a lot of synergies between thetwo.
Like he had to work withvendors as a restaurant owner.
He had to manage projects as arestaurant owner.
He had to build relationshipsand work with external customers
(32:38):
as a restaurant owner so manytransferable skills that led him
into a field that he's beeninterested in, and it was really
exciting to see him move intothat from doing something that
was like very singularly focused.
So that just gives you anexample of information that some
clients can experience throughcoaching.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
That's amazing.
So how can you be found?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
What do they got to do to get a hold of you?
Gosh, there's a few differentways, so certainly LinkedIn is
one of those places I post aboutcareer transition and job
search topics like veryregularly, four times or upwards
in a week.
So please do connect with meover LinkedIn and follow me.
You'll learn a lot that way.
Certainly, you can reach out tomy website, which is
(33:22):
mshafercoachingca, and I haveauthored a book which is
launching.
It's going to be on AmazonFebruary 6th and it's called
Cultivating Career GrowthNavigating Transitions with
Purpose.
When you go to my website,there's a tab called my Book and
you can actually get a freechapter of my book.
That just gets sent to youremail.
(33:43):
It gives you a chance to trybefore you buy, so it gives you
a little bit of a taste and someresources that can help you.
Even reaching out by email,michelle at mchafercoachingca,
you can reach out, you can talkto me.
You can even book acomplimentary 30-minute
conversation.
If you are at a place where youknow you need to find something
(34:03):
else and you're ready to takethat next step, then please do
reach out.
You can actually book time withme, also on my website, and
would love to have theconversation.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I'm going to invite you back onthe show so that we can talk
about this book specifically.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
That would be amazing .
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I want to talk about the book.
I want to explore that too,because you're such an amazing
coach.
I feel the synergy, so I wantto bring you back so we can talk
about the book.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I would love that.
I would love that the book andso many other things.
We've got lots to talk about.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
As we sign out, any final thoughts or a message you
want to leave the audience.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, I think the one thing I'll leave your listeners
with, because likely you've gotsome individuals who are
listening right now and thinking, yeah, I need to find something
else.
I'm feeling really discouragedand I don't want to feel like
this for the rest of my life oruntil I retire.
Or maybe some individuals arestruggling in a job search, like
they have been displaced andthey need to find something else
(35:04):
and they're feeling, oh my gosh, am I ever going to find a new
job?
So there could be a lot offeelings there and the one thing
I'll offer to all of yourlisteners is, if you have any of
those thoughts and emotions orsomebody who does, this is not
your forever place, and that'ssomething I share with my
clients a lot.
Regardless of what yoursituation is today, what you're
(35:27):
experiencing right now is notgoing to be your forever place.
So if you're actively lookingfor work and you're not getting
those interviews, this is notyour forever place.
You will find work again.
You will not be unemployedforever.
And if you're feelingfrustrated in your work, same
thing.
You're not stuck, you havechoices, you have options.
Sometimes working with aconversation partner can unlock
(35:49):
those possibilities.
But to know that, yeah, you'renot stuck.
You don't have to be where youare.
There are some otheralternatives.
You just need to open the mind,widen the view and do some
research, and all of thosethings are things that I can
support people with.
Yeah, parting thought.
Thanks for asking about that.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Say it, Michelle Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
I appreciate you too.
Thank you so much for having meon.
I've loved this conversation.
It's gone to lots of differentplaces, which is really exciting
.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Absolutely Thank.
You have a great day.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Thank you, you too.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Thank you for joining me in this episode of let's
Think About it.
Your time and attention aregreatly appreciated.
If you found value in today'sdiscussion, I encourage you to
subscribe on your favoritepodcast platform.
Remember, the journey ofself-improvement is ongoing and
I'm here to support you everystep of the way.
(36:41):
Connect with me on social mediafor updates and insights.
You can find me on Instagramand Facebook, at Coach Mo,
coaching or LinkedIn, at MauriceMabry, or visit my website at
mauricemabrycom for exclusivecontent.
Until next time, keepreflecting, keep growing and,
(37:03):
most importantly, keep believingin yourself.
Remember, the most effectiveway to do it is to do it
Together.
We're making incredible stridestoward a better and more
empowered you, so thank you, andI'll see you in our next
episode.
Welcome to the let's Think About it podcast, where we
embark on a journey ofthoughtfulness and personal
growth.
I'm your host, Coach Mo, andI'm here to guide you through
thought-promoting discussionsthat will inspire you to unlock
your full potential.
In each episode, we'll explorea wide range of topics, from
self-discovery and mindfulnessto goal-setting and achieving
(00:33):
success.
Together, we'll challengeconventional thinking and dive
deep into the realms ofpossibility.
Whether you're looking to findclarity in your personal or
professional life, or seekingstrategies to overcome obstacles
, this podcast is your go-tosource for insightful
conversations and practicaladvice.
So find a comfortable spot,chill and let's embark on this
(00:57):
journey of self-improvementtogether.
Remember, the power oftransformation lies within you,
and together we'll uncover thetools and insights you need to
make it happen.
So let's dive in.
Welcome to another episode ofthe let's Think About it podcast
(01:20):
.
I'm your host, Coach Mo, andI'm here with another amazing
guest.
This time we have MichelleSchaefer.
Michelle, what's up?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Mo, how's it going?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
It's going great.
It's going great.
I'm so happy that you're here.
The last time we talked therewas a lot of synergy.
But before we get into ourconversation, where are you
checking in from around thecountry?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So I am calling in from Ottawa, Canada, where today
it's freezing cold.
It's not the same case for you,I know.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Canada.
Oh, my goodness, it's got to becold.
You're approaching that verycold winter right.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Oh, yes, yeah, Today.
Actually, it felt like minus 26degrees Celsius this morning,
and so there is ice.
If you like to ice skate, thisis where you go.
In fact, in Ottawa we have acanal that is over 15 kilometers
long, that, when it's reallycold, it freezes, and it's the
(02:25):
world's largest skating rink.
So for all of your listeners,if you didn't know, that Ottawa,
canada, is the home of theworld's largest skating rink.
You know now, and this thinghas been open and I've been
skating just about every morning.
It's been fabulous.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
It sounds great, but I want to know part of it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's okay, mo, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I don't do well in all the heat either.
I'm that in-between guy.
That's why I like California,but something that does get
really hot.
We hit triple digits quiteoften and I don't do well in the
heat either.
But enough about that, enoughabout that.
Tell my audience who you areand what you do.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
For sure.
So I'm a career coach.
I specialize in careertransition and leadership
development, and I helpindividuals navigate career
transitions with confidence tohelp them find work that
energizes them for companiesthat believe what they believe
in, and I like to think of thatas my why Like.
Why am I a career coach?
(03:27):
Because I really do believethat people everywhere are
entitled and have the right tobe able to find work that lights
them up, and also that they canwork for an organization that
has the same values as them, andI find like when those two
things come together, people aremore fulfilled.
People have that energy,they're proud about their work,
(03:49):
they talk about their work withother people, and I want to help
people find that.
So I actually work with them ona whole system to help them
find work that they really love.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
That's awesome, but what's resonating with me?
You said the why?
Yes, take me through me.
You said the why Take methrough.
How did you discover the whyfor yourself and getting into
this line of work?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, that is such a great question.
It's funny because, you know,as a coach, I love hearing about
the stories of other people.
I know you do as well, and Ihave a story of my own too.
So my story what led me tocoaching was actually being
restructured, not just once, buttwice over the course of my
career.
(04:31):
So my role was eliminated.
I was thrust into the jobmarket because of different
business decisions andorganizational changes, and I
think it's funny thatrestructuring led me to coaching
and that's what I helpindividuals with.
Now.
Some of the clients I work withare ones who have lost their
jobs, and so when I wasrestructured the first time, I
(04:53):
realized that I didn't want tostay in the kind of work that I
was in.
I was actually with a largenational bank for 18 years, like
from high school plus 18 yearsand when I lost my job it was
really unsettling because I'dbeen with the same organization
for 18 years.
I never had to like network forwork, I never really had to
(05:15):
interview because people knew meand my reputation was able to
carry me.
But I found myself in likeuncertain, unstable territory
where I needed to navigate a bigcareer transition and I knew I
didn't want to stay in financialservices.
I knew I wanted to get intonot-for-profit.
I've been a volunteer likeprobably since the age of my
early teens.
(05:36):
I'm going to credit my parentsfor instilling a very strong
commitment to the community withmyself and my brother.
And when I reinvented myselfthe first time I wanted to do
something different, but Ididn't really know how I was
going to get there.
I had the support of a coach,so I was really grateful.
The organization that dideliminate my position gave me a
(05:58):
coach to work with, and so Ilearned a lot about how to
navigate a career transition,how to process those really
tricky emotions, those limitingbeliefs that stand in our way,
and develop some strategies tohelp me find my next job.
And that led me intonot-for-profit.
I was working then for like alarge national cancer
(06:18):
organization and, about fiveyears into that particular role,
a friend of mine who is a coach, a very good friend of mine, my
friend Val she just saidsomething like just offhand one
day.
She said I never understood whyyou didn't get into coaching as
a career path and at the time Isaid, ah, I love what I'm doing
, like I'm working with thesevolunteers who all support
(06:41):
people living with cancer, andfor different reasons.
I had negotiated a five day aweek job to three days so I
could be at home with my kidswhen they were young.
So at the time I said why wouldI wanna do anything different?
I love my job, I love thepeople I work with.
But then restructure number twohit.
My role at the cancerorganization was eliminated too,
(07:02):
and I remembered what she said,even though there was probably
a period of a year and a halffrom the time that she planted
that seed to the time that Iconsciously thought about it
again and I did remember whatshe said about coaching and it
made me realize.
You know, I've actually beencoaching in different roles,
like off the corner of my desk.
It was always a piece of my job, and with the second job
(07:25):
elimination, it just made methink maybe this is the universe
telling me that I should followthis path, that I should at
least investigate it and see ifit's for me, and that's what
really led me to do somethingabout it.
I started talking to coachesabout why they coach, the joys
of it, the challenges of it, howthey coach.
(07:46):
I talked to other career coaches, leadership coaches parenting
coaches, financial coaches likehealth and wellness coaches,
marriage coaches, like alldifferent types and I realized,
a this is something I want to doand, b I realized I wanted to
apply coaching in the careerspace because I was given a
(08:08):
coach and I know what thatexperience was like and how
awesome it would be to be ableto help people who were in my
circumstance.
So I got a certification, so Iwent and did some formal coach
training and was eventuallyregistered with the
International CoachingFederation, which I know you are
as well, mo ICF exactly, and Istarted my own practice and I
(08:34):
just I haven't turned back.
That was definitely the rightmove for me.
But I joke with people that,like, I've been coaching now for
almost 10 years and I joke thatat age 46, which was almost 10
years ago now that I finallyfigured out what I was going to
do for almost 10 years.
And I joke that at age 46,which was almost 10 years ago
now, that I finally figured outwhat I was going to do when I
grew up and it's just the mostfulfilling work and that's my
(08:54):
story.
It's a story of beingrestructured, getting really
uncomfortable, going throughcareer transition and
remembering those planted seedsthat eventually really led to
somewhere.
Very rewarding for me.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Thank you for sharing that.
I want to take it a littledeeper though.
Yeah, I want to get into.
Let's think about it.
Ok, so you shared yourexperience from a macro
perspective, and particularlythe last job restructure.
Ok, let's take a look at that.
It happened the second time.
What was the inner criticsaying in those moments?
(09:30):
What was the inner criticsaying in those moments?
How did the fear show up?
And then how did you navigatethat to get the confidence to
propel forward?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, that's such a great question because when you
touched on something right,there is like the fear and those
limiting beliefs right, whichcan crop up any time that we're
looking to make a change, anychange in our life, Like we're
talking right now in the contextof career.
But you know, anytime we make achange in our relationships or
our friendships or somethingthat we're deciding to do, those
fears can crop up.
(10:07):
And you're absolutely right.
If I'm honest with myself and Itake myself back to especially
when that second restructurehappened and I started to look
into coaching, there was a lotof fear.
There was a lot of uncertainty,because I had always worked for
large national organizations.
I had always had a securesalary, a benefits package,
(10:29):
vacation time, all of thosekinds of things.
And here I was by looking intogetting into coaching and
following that as a career path.
What I was admitting to myselfand accepting for myself is I am
now looking into anentrepreneurial path.
Yes, there are some largercoaching organizations, but most
(10:52):
of the coaching is doneindependently or as part of like
small, really boutique firms.
So I needed to accept that if Iwas going to pursue coaching,
there was a very good chancethat I was going to be
establishing myself as a solebusiness owner, as a sole
proprietor, and that was reallyscary because of the there there
(11:13):
is no certainty as anentrepreneur as there's no
secure income.
The income is very variablewhen you start off, like there's
a period of time where maybeyou're not even making anything
at all or you're making very lowincome, and so I was afraid.
I was afraid, first of all, amI making the right choice?
Am I actually making the rightdecision?
(11:33):
But I was also really had wasafraid, first of all, am I
making the right choice?
Am I actually making the rightdecision?
But I was also really had tothink seriously about okay, how
am I going to navigate thisunstable income?
And so what gave me theconfidence?
There were a few things.
One the first thing was when Iwas exploring coaching and I was
talking to other coaches and,in essence, I was networking
with other coaches.
I needed to learn more.
(11:54):
The last person that I did somenetworking with turned out to
be the teacher for my firstlevel of coaching certification.
I didn't know of it then, butwhen I talked to her and I was
asking her questions about whyshe got into coaching and all of
what I was doing with othercoaches.
She said to me partway throughthe conversation, she looked at
(12:14):
me and she said you don't needme to tell you that this is the
right path.
You actually already have theanswers within you.
And I sat there and I said youknow what?
I think you're right, Like Iwas looking for people to
validate this choice of mine andthe reality was I didn't need
anybody to validate it.
(12:35):
I actually knew it, even thoughit was new and it was uncertain
and a bit uncomfortable and wasgoing to require a whole lot of
work and time and energy, lotsof investment.
I did know so I'd say that wasthe first thing was hearing from
people that, yeah, this I wouldbe a good fit for that.
So that made me feel morecomfortable and confident in
terms of the choice.
(12:55):
The second thing that reallyhelped me was at the time I was
able to get into a smallbusiness, like a small business
program that gets you started asan entrepreneur and you have
access to a business consultantto help you with your business
plan.
You have access to people whohelp you with your website, with
your accounting, like all thestuff that you need to know as
(13:16):
an entrepreneur, like yourpricing and like how do you
market yourself, how do you talkabout yourself.
So I did engage with someexperts that really helped me
with that and they gave me areally solid foundation that I
was able to build from.
So, like, those two thingstogether really helped me quite
a lot.
And I would say the third thingwas really engaging with the
(13:38):
support that was around me, likefamily members, friends, other
entrepreneurs that I knew that Icould talk to and say, oh my
gosh, did you feel like thiswhen you first started?
And to be able to not only landall of those fears and concerns,
but to be able to not only landall of those fears and concerns
, but to be able to talk yourway through them and to reframe
those limiting beliefs and thelimiting beliefs that told me I
(14:01):
can't do this or I'm too old,Like 46 is too old to be
starting something new.
That's a limiting beliefbecause you can start something
new at any age.
Some of my clients start likestart their own business at age
like 64.
Like you don't, you don't haveto wait, and so it was immensely
(14:21):
valuable to work through all ofthat with other people that
were encouraging.
For me, it was aboutsurrounding myself with positive
energy and also surroundingmyself with people that I could
rely on, that I could get theirinput and their experience, and
all of that really culminated toproviding me with a really
(14:41):
solid foundation to take thosesteps forward.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That's awesome.
I love how you really clarifiedand took us through that
process and I want to share myexperience.
When I came through thecoaching right yeah, most people
that come through coachingthey're coming out and they want
to start a business, right, andI love your approach of what
you did to create a foundationmy approach was a little bit
(15:06):
different, in a sense that Iwant to create a coaching
foundation in the organizationthat I work for right, and doing
that, it gave me the confidenceto practice with clients which
were the internal employees, andI've ultimately built a
business within an organizationand created my own position,
(15:31):
built my own coaching team andthat's what I do.
I coach full time and managethe unit coaching and career
development and it's directparallel.
So now, as I build MabryEnterprises externally right, I
have the confidence to do thatbecause I built the experience
(15:52):
and the foundation internallywith the organization to create
a win for them.
Yeah, that was my focus when.
What can I do to help elevatethe leaders in this department
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
You know it's really interesting as you're talking,
mo, I mean what comes up for meis and I can feel this and just
the energy that you're bringingto this conversation Like when
you have the energy and you'refired up about something and you
have the courage to be able toessentially create a career path
or enter a career path thatspeaks to that kind of work that
(16:28):
really does fill you up and youpair it with doing that work
that you enjoy within anorganization that has a strong
values alignment, I like to saybelieves the same things that
you believe in, then like thosetwo things together are going to
help you like feel like you'remaking a difference, feel like
(16:50):
you're fulfilled and when you'refulfilled, you are like less
likely to start looking around,you're less likely to do that
thing you hear about, like quiet, quitting and like dialing back
slowly on the work that you'redoing.
You're less likely to do thosethings and you're more likely to
talk to leaders and say, hey, Iwant to do more of this kind of
(17:11):
work or how do I partner withyou?
How can we collaborate and justexpanding outside of what it is
that you're doing?
And like talking to individualslike yourself who clearly love
the work that they're doing andhave, like, really built that
for themselves.
It's so empowering.
It's empowering but then it'sjust the reward that you get
(17:33):
from.
That is like you can't put aprice tag on it.
And when I talk to clients thatdon't want to go to work on
Monday, on Sunday, they're likedreading, it's another week.
So when I talk to individualswho are dreading going to work
or are just talking aboutfalling out of love with their
work or maybe they're withorganizations that they really
(17:54):
don't jive or agree with theleadership there's been some
leadership shifts and that'scaused them to second guess,
like what it is that they'redoing and where they're doing it
.
Those are the people I want tohelp.
It's the individuals.
Some of them are ones that areactively looking for work
because they've been in asituation like me they've lost
their job.
But there's more and more peoplenow and I think the pandemic
(18:15):
has really clued this in wherepeople are thinking about what's
important to them, they'rereflecting on it and they're
holding it up against whatthey're doing and where they're
doing it, and they're realizingthat there's some misalignment,
that the work that they're doingnow isn't ticking their big
boxes.
It doesn't align with the workthat gives them energy.
(18:36):
It doesn't align with the kindof organization they want to be
part of, and those are thepeople that are starting to come
to me because they want clarity.
They don't know where to go,but they know.
They don't want to do whatthey're doing anymore, but they
don't know what that next stepis, and so being able to clear
the fog for them and give themthat clarity through a
structured process is ultimatelylike the reward for me.
(18:59):
When I see clients find thatnext job where they're leaving
something that they didn'treally enjoy too much, that's a
huge reward.
I'm a witness to the progressof my clients and the reward is
really the individuals going onto different things.
They're going to feel thatenergy in their work and we both
know that's a special thing.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
That's a special place to be.
But I'm going to tap intosomething else that you said.
You said courage and that wordis really resonating with me
right now, and here's why I knowyou're in Canada, we're in the
United States.
We just had an administrationchangeover.
Oh yes, there's a lot ofrestructuring happening as we
speak.
I know People are being toldnot to come back.
(19:42):
You got to come into the officefull time now.
Just a lot of restructure andthat's generating a lot of fear.
When you talk about couragebecause you mentioned courage
how do you work with yourclients to establish that
courage to navigate in timeslike this when there's
(20:03):
uncertainty about the structureand the places that they work?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, and that's a very timely question, certainly
connecting it to world events.
Right now too, and in Canadatoo, we're experiencing our own
shifts and an administrationchange that is very likely
that's going to create somechanges, certainly in our
markets as well.
And when I think of courage, Ithink of choice.
(20:28):
And when I think of choice, Ithink of empowering.
If I were to take a step back,one of the things that I'll say
to clients of mine, like whenthey some will come to me and
they'll say like I'm stuck, likeI can't do anything, this
situation sucks and I can't doanything about it for a variety
(20:48):
of reasons, and so I'll explorethat with them.
So in what ways do you feelyou're stuck?
If you could do anything, whatwould that be?
What would be some options thatwould be available to you?
Not to say you're going topursue any of these immediately,
but let's just brainstorm.
What are all the possibilitiesthat you could follow?
And when individuals see that,yeah, they don't love their job
(21:11):
and they don't love where theyare, but there are options where
they can find fulfilling workfor another organization, that
is the courage right.
There is the courage to realize, first of all, that nobody's
telling me I have to stay here.
Now there's financialconsiderations too right, for
example, in our government.
(21:32):
Too right, for example, in ourgovernment.
There's great benefits thepension is one of the biggest
benefits that our governmentoffers and so people feel stuck
because, oh, if I leave thegovernment then I'm going to be
leaving my pension behind.
And when you start to talkabout all the different
considerations yeah, let's, haveyou talked to a financial
planner?
It was one of those questionsLike what are the options for
(21:53):
you financially?
Do you have to stay in thisuntil retirement in order to get
those benefits?
Can you find some of thosebenefits elsewhere?
And when individuals realizethat they have a number of
different options, that thenthey would have to research,
they would have to talk to theirfamily and all of those kinds
of things, because we don't makedecisions just unilaterally
(22:15):
Then it opens up the door forthem.
They realize, okay, I actuallycan take steps forward, I can do
different things.
And for some people, maybe theystay where they are, but they
have now the courage to go andtalk to their leader and say
these things that I'm doing.
I'm not really feeling as muchenergy with them, but here are
(22:36):
some things around me that I'dreally like to get involved in.
So that is courage, even justto stay where you are and try to
figure out is there a way thatI can make this work for me in a
different way than I'mexperiencing it today?
And it is all the empowering.
Yes, you can make a shift.
You know, if you're committedto it, you have to want it.
(22:59):
But when you talk about what arethe pros and cons, what if I,
if I follow this path?
What does it open up for me IfI don't follow this part path?
What does it close down for me?
And all of that widens the viewquite a lot that make different
possibilities possible.
And then to take steps forwardlike this is where a career
(23:21):
coach helps.
Like I'm a conversation partnerwith my clients.
I'm not telling them what to door that, and the hard work is
being done by them, but helpingthem, like for them, to come to
a realization.
You know what?
This is something that I can do.
Can you help me with that?
Okay, yeah, let's put togethera plan that will help you take
those steps and that does takecourage, because it's moving
(23:42):
from a place of I feel like I'mstuck to a place where you
realize you have options andthere's actionable steps that
you can take, even baby stepones that will help you get
closer there.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
But typically, from the viewpoint of feeling stuck,
there's usually limiting beliefsthat are present.
And when limiting beliefs arepresent, you're not seeking
knowledge to dismiss thelimiting beliefs, because in
certain moments you're trying toproject worst case scenario,
because that's what yourexperience has been right and so
(24:17):
what you do.
What I do when we work withclients is help them explore
possibilities by askingempowering and powerful
questions.
When you can ask thoseopen-ended, powerful, empowering
type questions, it makes aperson really pause and think of
(24:38):
alternatives and start to getout of your own way.
Like I always say right, youstart getting this confidence,
(24:58):
you start thinking like man,this is all in my head, that's
right, you're right, I did usedto do that, I was good at that.
But when you don't explore itand you just accept the initial
instincts, the initial instinctto be afraid, that's because a
(25:19):
limiting belief, the innercritic, some sort of assumption,
some sort of interpretation,it's all present.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, it's the narrative right, like it's the
narratives are the.
It's the narrative right.
Our narratives are the storythat we tell ourselves.
Right, it's a story that's inour head.
And you're right, thatnarrative is founded on
assumptions about a thing, anevent, a person, or judgments
about those same things, andwhen we shift to focusing on
(25:48):
facts, that's where we start todebunk our own limiting beliefs.
So, for example, like a numberof my clients who are, they're
in a job search, and one of thebiggest activities in a job
search in order to uncoveropportunities is networking.
It's having one-on-oneconversations like we're having
(26:09):
right now, one-on-oneconversations, obviously focused
on a job search, and there's alot of people who will not want
to do that, and so we, when I'mexploring with them, one of the
limiting beliefs that comes upis people are too busy, so I
can't ask them to help me out, Ican't ask them to have time
with them to talk about theirorganization or how they got
(26:31):
into their career path or any ofthat kind of stuff.
And so I'll say to them so whatevidence do you have to support
that?
And usually the answer isnothing.
There is no actual evidence.
Nobody actually said to themI'm too busy, I can't help you.
But we create this story thatthinks that I can't bother
(26:52):
someone.
And then I'll take it one stepfurther.
As another way of reframingthat belief, I'll say to them so
let's say for a moment that youknow a friend of a friend
reached out to you and let's sayMo, you're a coach, I'm a coach
.
And let's say a friend of yourscomes to you and says you know
what?
I've got a friend who's wantingto get into coaching.
(27:14):
They're not really sure it'sfor them.
Would they be able to have sometime with you and you could
talk about, like how you gotinto it and all of that?
And I'll say to them let's sayyou were on the receiving end of
that question, how would yourespond?
And they would say like ninetimes out of 10, they'd say, of
(27:37):
course I'd help people, help me,I would help them.
So I'd say is it possible thatwhen you're making these
requests of other people thatthey might have some time for
you?
And then people go oh, yeah, Isaid yeah, that's a limiting
belief, right?
The limiting belief is peopleare too busy, they're not going
to say yes, they're just goingto shut me down.
We're making assumptions onthat, but when we realize I
don't have any evidence and Iwould probably respond favorably
(27:57):
if I was on the receiving end.
Now we've reframed thatlimiting belief into something
that tells us, yes, people wantto help and they just want to
know how they can help, butpeople are generous with their
(28:18):
time.
And so the difference in that itilluminates so much and it just
opens up the path for people tostart exploring, to start
making big decisions and choicesthat are their choices to make,
because in the context of ourcareer, we go through our
careers and usually we don't getoff, we don't get off the world
, we don't hit the pause buttonand start to reflect on what's
important to us.
But I encourage people to dothat because when you do, that's
what's going to start to makeyou realize, hey, yeah, I need
(28:41):
something different, I need tobe somewhere else.
But I know now the reasons why,because I have some evidence
that backs that up.
And then when you have a plan,the plan is like very tangible,
very actionable, very practical,can help you move forward and
move away from those limitingbeliefs and into something like
productive and positive activitythat can really support your
(29:02):
career.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Absolutely, Absolutely, and it sounds to me
you bring so much value to yourclients and helping them get out
of their own way to navigatetheir career.
But let me ask you this, as wemove closer to signing out who
is your clients?
What demographics are they?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So my clients, believe it or not, are men,
women, all different sectors,different parts of the US,
canada.
I've got some internationalclients as well, and but the
thing that is common, though, isI really work with two like
groups of individuals.
So, regardless of where you arein your career I would say,
(29:41):
though, I don't work withstudents or individuals like
fresh out of university to helpthem figure out what their path
is Mid-career professionals aretypically the group that I will
work most with, although I haveworked with individuals to help
them carve out a retirement planas well and figure out, like
that, next chapter in theircareer.
But the two groups ofindividuals that come to me that
(30:03):
are in need of my services areindividuals who are dreading the
Mondays, are feeling like,discouraged in their work.
Maybe they're, like undervaluedand not appreciated, really
looking for something new.
Not sure what that is.
So that's group number one.
Group number two are youmentioned at the top of our
(30:24):
conversation, mo?
There's a lot of change rightnow happening in the world,
which means that there'srestructures, there's business
decisions, there's jobeliminations, and all of those
business decisions are affectinghumans.
So I work with individuals whohave found themselves suddenly
out of work and they also areneeding to put together a plan,
find new work usually quicklyand enter the job market and
(30:47):
feel confident navigating thatjob market.
So those two pockets ofindividuals I work with and just
the reward of helping both ofthem find a new path.
For some people they do thesame thing, but somewhere else.
For others, they use it as anopportunity to do something that
maybe they've thought about allof their career.
(31:09):
But now they have anopportunity to do it and they
switch career paths.
I'll give you an example.
In the pandemic I worked withretail store owners and
restaurant owners, because thepandemic was not kind to retail
or hospitality, obviouslyespecially hospitality.
And one of my clients owned arestaurant.
He was in hospitality all ofhis life.
(31:31):
He remembers as a kid likebussing tables because his
family was in the business.
He's never known anythingoutside of being in a restaurant
, but he was at a place where hehad to sell his restaurant.
He realized that was somethinghe wanted to do and together we
were able to work to help himarticulate his transferable
skills those skills that existoutside of hospitality are
(31:52):
sought after in differentindustries.
Help him figure out hisachievements.
Help him figure out what hisnew destination would be like,
what kind of career paths hewant to explore, and then we
created a plan together.
So I like to think of lookingfor work as like going on
vacation not as fun, but youneed to have a destination, you
need to have a plan together.
So I like to think of lookingfor work as like going on
vacation not as fun, but youneed to have a destination, you
need to have a plan.
And so I helped him transitionfrom being a restaurant owner
(32:18):
with, like, only that experience, and he took all of that to be
a senior project manager inconstruction, because there were
a lot of synergies between thetwo.
Like he had to work withvendors as a restaurant owner.
He had to manage projects as arestaurant owner.
He had to build relationshipsand work with external customers
(32:38):
as a restaurant owner so manytransferable skills that led him
into a field that he's beeninterested in, and it was really
exciting to see him move intothat from doing something that
was like very singularly focused.
So that just gives you anexample of information that some
clients can experience throughcoaching.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
That's amazing.
So how can you be found?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
What do they got to do to get a hold of you?
Gosh, there's a few differentways, so certainly LinkedIn is
one of those places I post aboutcareer transition and job
search topics like veryregularly, four times or upwards
in a week.
So please do connect with meover LinkedIn and follow me.
You'll learn a lot that way.
Certainly, you can reach out tomy website, which is
(33:22):
mshafercoachingca, and I haveauthored a book which is
launching.
It's going to be on AmazonFebruary 6th and it's called
Cultivating Career GrowthNavigating Transitions with
Purpose.
When you go to my website,there's a tab called my Book and
you can actually get a freechapter of my book.
That just gets sent to youremail.
(33:43):
It gives you a chance to trybefore you buy, so it gives you
a little bit of a taste and someresources that can help you.
Even reaching out by email,michelle at mchafercoachingca,
you can reach out, you can talkto me.
You can even book acomplimentary 30-minute
conversation.
If you are at a place where youknow you need to find something
(34:03):
else and you're ready to takethat next step, then please do
reach out.
You can actually book time withme, also on my website, and
would love to have theconversation.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I'm going to invite you back onthe show so that we can talk
about this book specifically.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
That would be amazing .
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I want to talk about the book.
I want to explore that too,because you're such an amazing
coach.
I feel the synergy, so I wantto bring you back so we can talk
about the book.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I would love that.
I would love that the book andso many other things.
We've got lots to talk about.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
As we sign out, any final thoughts or a message you
want to leave the audience.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, I think the one thing I'll leave your listeners
with, because likely you've gotsome individuals who are
listening right now and thinking, yeah, I need to find something
else.
I'm feeling really discouragedand I don't want to feel like
this for the rest of my life oruntil I retire.
Or maybe some individuals arestruggling in a job search, like
they have been displaced andthey need to find something else
(35:04):
and they're feeling, oh my gosh, am I ever going to find a new
job?
So there could be a lot offeelings there and the one thing
I'll offer to all of yourlisteners is, if you have any of
those thoughts and emotions orsomebody who does, this is not
your forever place, and that'ssomething I share with my
clients a lot.
Regardless of what yoursituation is today, what you're
(35:27):
experiencing right now is notgoing to be your forever place.
So if you're actively lookingfor work and you're not getting
those interviews, this is notyour forever place.
You will find work again.
You will not be unemployedforever.
And if you're feelingfrustrated in your work, same
thing.
You're not stuck, you havechoices, you have options.
Sometimes working with aconversation partner can unlock
(35:49):
those possibilities.
But to know that, yeah, you'renot stuck.
You don't have to be where youare.
There are some otheralternatives.
You just need to open the mind,widen the view and do some
research, and all of thosethings are things that I can
support people with.
Yeah, parting thought.
Thanks for asking about that.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Say it, Michelle Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
I appreciate you too.
Thank you so much for having meon.
I've loved this conversation.
It's gone to lots of differentplaces, which is really exciting
.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Absolutely Thank.
You have a great day.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Thank you, you too.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Thank you for joining me in this episode of let's
Think About it.
Your time and attention aregreatly appreciated.
If you found value in today'sdiscussion, I encourage you to
subscribe on your favoritepodcast platform.
Remember, the journey ofself-improvement is ongoing and
I'm here to support you everystep of the way.
(36:41):
Connect with me on social mediafor updates and insights.
You can find me on Instagramand Facebook, at Coach Mo,
coaching or LinkedIn, at MauriceMabry, or visit my website at
mauricemabrycom for exclusivecontent.
Until next time, keepreflecting, keep growing and,
(37:03):
most importantly, keep believingin yourself.
Remember, the most effectiveway to do it is to do it
Together.
We're making incredible stridestoward a better and more
empowered you, so thank you, andI'll see you in our next
episode.
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