March 3, 2025 • 37 mins
What if one conversation could change the trajectory of your life? In this powerful episode of the Let's Think About It Podcast, we dive into the life-changing concept of mentorship with Deborah Heiser, an applied developmental psychologist and the CEO of the Mentor Project. Discover how mentorship goes beyond just passing down knowledge—it's about forging deep, meaningful connections that can redefine personal and professional growth, especially in midlife and beyond.
Deborah shares her inspiring journey into the field of psychology, ignited by her grandmother’s experience with depression. She highlights how mentorship provides a profound sense of purpose that often diminishes later in life, and how this process of self-discovery enriches both mentor and mentee. The Mentor Project connects students with experts from various fields for free, creating an opportunity to share invaluable knowledge globally while overcoming fear, limiting beliefs, and self-doubt.
Gain clarity on the differences between mentoring, coaching, counseling, and consulting—the key distinctions that significantly impact professional development and personal growth. Deborah explains how mentorship can overcome imposter syndrome, boost confidence, and foster leadership development. Through compelling real-life success stories, including one that shows how one mentor's guidance positively impacted an entire community, we explore how mentorship drives professional growth and tackles challenges like burnout, work-life balance, and difficult conversations.
Join us as we challenge conventional norms about aging, leadership, and decision-making while uncovering the transformative power within mentorship. If you’re ready to make a difference in your life or someone else’s, visit www.mentorproject.org to learn how you can become a mentor or mentee today. Don’t forget to subscribe to the Let's Think About It Podcast for more insights on overcoming fear, boosting confidence, mindfulness, energy, and creating lasting professional development!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the let's Think About it podcast, where we
embark on a journey ofthoughtfulness and personal
growth.
I'm your host, coach Mo, andI'm here to guide you through
thought-promoting discussionsthat will inspire you to unlock
your full potential.
In each episode, we'll explorea wide range of topics, from
self-discovery and mindfulnessto goal-setting and achieving
(00:33):
success.
Together, we'll challengeconventional thinking and dive
deep into the realms ofpossibility.
Whether you're looking to findclarity in your personal or
professional life, or seekingstrategies to overcome obstacles
, this podcast is your go-tosource for insightful
conversations and practicaladvice.
So find a comfortable spot,chill and let's embark on this
(00:57):
journey of self-improvementtogether.
Remember, the power oftransformation lies within you,
and together we'll uncover thetools and insights you need to
make it happen.
So let's dive in.
Welcome to another episode ofthe let's Think About it podcast
(01:21):
.
I'm your host, coach Mo, andI'm here with another amazing
guest.
Her name is Debra.
Hi, sir, what's up, debra?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Hi, thanks for having me on your show.
I'm delighted to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Absolutely so.
Where are you checking in?
From what part of the country?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm in New York, right outside New York City.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
New York City.
Okay, born and raised.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
No, I'm originally from Des Moines, Iowa.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
How'd you end up in the New York area then?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I've been here a long time.
My parents moved, my dad was anartist, and so we moved from
Iowa when I was a kid to NewYork.
But I'm the only one out here.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Nice.
So tell my audience about whoyou are, what you do and the
type of value that you bring.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sure, my name again is Deborah Heiser.
I'm an applied developmentalpsychologist and I focus on
midlife and older.
Most developmentalpsychologists look at kids, so
I'm unusual in that respect.
I also am the CEO of the MentorProject, where we bring the top
(02:37):
1% of experts in their fieldsto mentor students around the
world for free, and I also justwrote the Mentorship Edge
defining mentorship and sayingwhat it isn't also, and so I
also.
I do other things.
I write for psychology todayand I am an adjunct at a
university out here in thepsychology departments.
That's about it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
That's amazing.
How did you develop the strongcuriosity around psychology and
mentorship?
Where did that develop from?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So it was actually.
It didn't just happen, itreally came out of a few
different things.
So I originally went into thefield of aging because my
grandmother got sick down inFlorida with depression.
I didn't know what depressionwas, I was like 20.
I went down to visit her andshe wasn't herself and I asked
the people that worked in theindependent living facility
(03:30):
what's wrong with grandma?
And they said we'll fix her,don't worry.
And I was like fix her, what doyou mean?
They said she's just depressed.
She's taking a new med and it'smaking her depressed.
She'll be better next time.
I went back down a couplemonths later and she was great.
She was back to herself.
So I said that's it.
I don't want to go to schoolfor business anymore.
(03:50):
I'm switching my majors and I'mgoing to become a psychologist
and I'm going to fix grandma's.
And it was before the field ofaging really.
So it was an unusual field todecide to go into, but I was
pretty determined.
I took a long time to get myundergrad because I switched
majors and finally got it and Iwent into work right away in the
(04:12):
field of aging in a psychiatrichospital doing research on
depression, and I took about sixyears doing that.
I went on for my doctorate at auniversity that said, hey, we
will allow you to study aging.
Nobody really focused on that,but they said they'd let me do
it and I was grateful for that.
And I then went to work in anursing home.
(04:32):
So I was studying everything noone wants to ever have or get
and I was thinking this is whataging was, and all things that
are bad, things that no onewants to ever look forward to.
And I went to a dinner party andI was really feeling pretty
good about myself.
I was, I had just written abook and I was in my early
(04:55):
thirties.
And so I was like, oh, I beteverybody's going to think I'm
so amazing when I go to thisdinner party I'm going to tell
them all about myself andeverything I'm doing.
And I told them and it was likecrickets in the room.
No one was impressed.
And then one person chimed upand said all you're doing is
like putting a bandaid oneverything we don't want for our
(05:15):
future.
What do we have to look forwardto?
And I was like, oh man, likethat was hitting me with a brick
.
Oh, I know I can imagine.
It was like crushed.
So I left that dinner party andit was truly an aha moment
where I said I need to find outwhat we're looking forward to,
because then I needed to feellike I needed to look forward to
(05:37):
something for the future.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Can I stop you there real quick In that moment?
What was the inner critictelling you about yourself at
that point in your life?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
My inner critic was not going easy on me.
I was really and truly sayingwhat have I been wasting my time
on?
I'm not helping anybody.
I am actually literally, likethis person said, putting a
Band-Aid on our future.
Because he said, ok, you'restudying depression, what does
that do for us?
And I said we can make it sothat you can have less
(06:09):
depression and it'll be less ofall this bad stuff.
And he was like that doesn'tmake me want to get old.
It was really.
It sounds like this guy wasbeing cruel, but honestly, it
was a pivotal moment for me andI was.
I'm grateful because I actuallychanged my trajectory based on
(06:29):
that conversation.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
It made me actually say, oh yeah, have you ever
gotten into the workspace andyou have your head down and
you're just going forward andyou're not thinking about
anything?
I had those blinders on andwhen I picked my head up and I
looked around and I heard avoice from somebody else saying
there's more to what you'rethinking about.
I actually felt at first I wasreally crushed, but when I went
(06:56):
back I said wow, that was a giftin a way, because I really did
go back to the literature and Idid not realize because this is
the olden days, nobody's talkingabout.
Aging was the wild west.
So I went and I looked andthere was so much research that
had been done and theory fordecades on all the good stuff we
(07:16):
have to look forward to, but itnever made it to the media.
If you Googled old age, it wasyou're going to get robbed and
there's going to be a scam andeverybody's in a wheelchair,
infirmed in some way.
Alzheimer's was somethingpeople were so afraid of getting
when they got older that theywere all taking blood tests to
see if they had the gene.
So when I found that out, I waslike, oh okay, I'm running with
(07:40):
this now and it gave me such afeeling of really not a
completeness, but a sense of Ihave a more complete picture.
I can tell now there are somestumbling blocks that we might
come across, but really ourlifespan is opportunity, not
obstacle, and that was new to me.
It was we don't have to lookfor the obstacles.
(08:03):
It's really a door is going toopen.
You're going to walk through itand you're going to find the
emotional journey is whatcarries us.
That never wanes.
It only gets higher and higherand we get happier and happier
as we get older.
So that's where I started mywork on mentorship was.
I saw the midlife stage is apoint where we are built to want
(08:24):
to give back to others withoutexpecting anything in return,
which sounds totallycounterintuitive to everything
we ever learn.
But that's really.
We're built to do that, likebreathing.
It's that much part of oursystem.
And that led me to really talkto a lot of people who are
mentors and I found out the top1% of the leaders that I had
been talking to, which was about45 people, did not have
(08:47):
connections with mentees.
They felt like they wereirrelevant.
And these are really amazingpeople that they had that they
didn't have purpose because theyweren't connected with somebody
.
They that they could pass onlike they had all this knowledge
and some of them were famousbefore and no one was there to
connect with them and I was likeno one talks about that.
(09:10):
We all go find a mentor andhere they are.
They're like here I am, look atme and there's nobody looking.
So that's how we got startedwith the mentor project was Bill
Cheswick, who's the one of thefathers of the network firewall
how we're communicating nowsafely on the internet.
(09:30):
He said I'm going to beretiring and moving to a farm
and there's nobody that I'mgoing to have connections with.
I'm going to feel terrible andI'm going to feel useless and
irrelevant and I want to feelvalidated that all the work I
did actually mattered.
It was so moving to me that Iwas like hey, bill, let's get
(09:53):
you into schools.
So a few of us formed thislittle group to get Bill into
schools, just because we thoughthow can we it's like burning
down a library if we don't.
So we did that and everybodyout there said no one is ever
going to want to join you bandof weirdos.
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And then six months later we had 60 people that
called and said can I join?
Then a couple months later,eight, it was 80.
And then a year later it was ahundred.
And it was just us volunteeringour time and we found out that
people all around the worldcrave being a mentor.
It's something we crave.
We get something out of it asmentors.
(10:35):
It's not the mentee, of course.
They get something, but we getto feel like we matter in the
world.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Absolutely.
And there's this communicationgap too, because you have people
or young students who want tobe mentored, but they have, they
carry a fear to ask for mentorsand they don't know who to ask.
Yeah, exactly, so I can see howI'm just visualizing your
(11:03):
mentor project and how youconnect people, because I
remember going through collegeright Years ago, by the way,
years ago, I know how that feels.
But I was just winging it.
I was winging it and I didn'thave that connection.
I didn't have that person Comehere, let me tell you what's
(11:24):
what and put their arm aroundyou and just give you some
guidance.
But mentorship is veryimportant, but here's the
question that I've been justdying to talk to you about
what's the difference betweenmentorship, coaching, counseling
, consulting, because it alwaysgets commingled into one.
(11:48):
How can you break that down forus?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I'm so glad you asked that I actually wrote the
mentorship edge, because it's socrazy, making for me that those
all get commingled togetherwhich then means none of them
work.
So when people are like a coachis a mentor, is a coach, you
need both.
You should have a coach and youshould have lots of mentors.
So here's what it is and whatit isn't.
(12:12):
And I like to say right off thebat if you're getting paid,
you're not a mentor, you're acoach.
That doesn't devalue coaching.
Coaching is needed.
You might be an advisor, youmight be a sponsor, you might be
something else, but you're nota mentor.
And here's why and how.
So if you're going to be amentor and this goes for mentee
also if you're going to be in amentoring relationship, somebody
(12:34):
has to be generative.
And generative is where you.
It's that developmental lifestage where you say I want to
give back without expectinganything in return.
Now, we do this all the time.
If you have a friend who says,hey, can you help me solve this
problem?
You're not going to be like,figure it out yourself, buddy,
bad friend.
You're going to say I'll helpyou.
(12:55):
Now, we're engaged in that allthe time.
That's lateral mentoring, soit's something where it's like
breathing for us.
We do it all the time now, sowe need that.
And that also means that weneed a mentee who wants to
accept what it is that mentor isgiving.
So say I, say, hey, I'm givingout wisdom on accounting, and
(13:15):
the person that is assigned tome or comes to me says I want
mentorship on dance.
That's not a mentoringrelationship.
One is giving something theother one doesn't want, and vice
versa.
If somebody is asking forsomething that somebody doesn't
want to give, that's notmentoring.
It also has to be intrinsicallymotivated, and what I mean by
that is we're often motivatedand particularly in the
(13:38):
workplace and often in schoolalso by external rewards.
That's a grade, that is, wedon't care about anything but
the grade or the paycheck or theperformance evaluation or
getting a certificate of somekind.
That is an external reward.
But let me tell you the exampleof how it looks.
(13:58):
If I were to say to you hey,coach Mo, do you want to go
volunteer your time at a soupkitchen giving out food and
beverage to hungry, thirstypeople, you might say, yeah, I
feel good when I do that.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I feel good when I give to others.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Now if I said hey, you know what, coach Mo, on your
way to the soup kitchen, justtake a left and go volunteer
time at Starbucks, insteadgiving out food and beverage to
hungry, thirsty people for free?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
How are you going?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
to feel about that.
The same activity, but two verydifferent feelings.
And we often put an external orextrinsic reward attached to
what we call mentoring.
That voids mentoring.
That means no, no, that is notmentoring.
Then it becomes coaching, itbecomes something else, it's
(14:44):
something other than mentoring.
Then we also need a meaningfulconnection.
If you say, hey, debbie, I'dlike to mentor you in something,
and I say, sure, I loveeverything you're doing, and we
hit it off and we become, Ireally say you know what he's
great, I really want to learnfrom him.
You say, sure, I loveeverything you're doing, and we
hit it off and we become.
I really say you know what he'sgreat, I really want to learn
from him.
You say, hey, she's great, Ireally want to learn.
Give, teach her everything.
(15:05):
We have a meaningful connection.
However, if I go to you and Isay, hey, coach, mo, you want to
?
Let's, I'll mentor you insomething, no-transcript, next
(15:29):
is and we see that oftentimes atwork Somebody feels, ooh, I've
been paired up with somebody,but I'm too embarrassed to tell
anybody that I don't like thisperson because it'll make me
feel like it's a failedmentorship.
No, it's not mentorship tobegin with, because you need
that we also need to trust theperson.
So imagine you're at work andyou are looking to go to your
boss for, or somebody two levelsabove or wherever.
(15:52):
A lot of people feel toovulnerable to say I don't know
something, because they want tofeel like they don't want to
feel like they don't want tofeel like that person is going
to give them a bad eval or thenthink poorly of them.
Maybe they won't give them apromotion.
We've been taught to beindispensable.
An indispensable person doesn'thave questions, so we have to
(16:14):
trust that person.
Likewise, the mentor has totrust the mentee.
Is that mentee going to stealmy idea and run away with it?
Are they going to and thathappens in finance are they
going to steal my clients and go?
We need to make sure thatthere's trust and, finally,
there has to be a goal, and thatgoal is one that could be a
one-off hey, show me the lay ofthe land of this new workplace
(16:37):
or school or it could be anever-changing goal that happens
over time, and so if you breakthat down, it makes it much
easier to see like what coachingis.
Coaching is a really structuredenvironment where it's
goal-driven and you don't haveto love your coach and your
(16:57):
coach doesn't have to love you,but you are both going to work
towards getting that goal andthat is.
There is wonderful stuff inthat I coach, but there's a
difference between the two.
And likewise, if you're engagedin sponsorship, sponsoring is
where you're opening doors forpeople.
You are talking about them inplaces where they aren't and
(17:19):
saying, hey, have you seen CoachMo?
He's amazing.
You got to check out Coach Mo.
You're doing that.
You're promoting that person inways that'll get them seen and
heard.
That's not mentorship, that'ssponsorship.
We need to do all of these andif we commingle them, we're
doing none of them.
So we're doing ourselves adisservice by not knowing which
(17:42):
thing we're engaged in, becausementorship should not be one.
We should have countlessmentors.
I would say one coach.
We don't want to have more thanone coach.
That just gets ugly.
You could have multiplesponsors.
If you're in a network, youwant to have a nice big network.
That's all potential mentorsand you want to make this as
many connections as you possiblycan, knowing their definition
(18:05):
and where each person lies.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Absolutely.
It contributes to your growthprocess, and we should always be
growing in just different areas, and particularly when you're
talking about running a businesstoo.
Right, you have the salesaspect, you have advertising,
you have marketing, you have thepeople skills, technical skills
, all of these different things,and as an entrepreneur, you
(18:28):
don't know it all.
So those are opportunities tohave mentors, but one word that
like really stuck out to me whenyou were talking about the
mentorship relationship is trust.
How does and this might be justoff the top situation, but I
can imagine there are somepeople who wants to stroke their
(18:50):
ego a little bit, and that'swhy they become a mentor.
And so they become a mentor,though they do want to give, but
they carry a certain ego.
That I'm right.
You need to do, as I say, thattype.
From that viewpoint, how do youhelp mentors that come into
your program establish trust andwork to build trust, to teach
(19:15):
them how to build trust?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So you described two things.
One is that you said a personcame in and wants to give, but
they want their ego taken careof.
That's not generative.
You want to give withoutexpecting anything in return?
Right, if you want your egostroke, that's getting something
in return.
So right there, not mentoring.
(19:40):
So that happens all the time,right, and we see this.
We can sniff that out in asecond.
And then what happens is peoplesay we just got to teach that
person to be different.
But it's like saying the babyisn't walking at six months.
You can walk at six months or16 months, it's all the same,
right, baby's not walking at sixmonths.
(20:01):
We're going to sit there andwork with that baby to walk and
get it to walk.
Babies are going to walk whenthey walk.
That guy might not begenerative at that moment we got
to say you know what?
That's all right, maybe he'sbetter at doing something else.
He might be a great sponsor forsomebody, maybe a good
networker, connection maker,whatever, but he's not a mentor.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What about how you approach a person who's really
generous and open carries acertain fear of perfectionist
into giving their mentorship.
They just carry.
I've never been thinking as aperson that's going into
mentorship.
That carries certain fears.
I'm not good with people.
(20:44):
How am I ever going to be amentor?
But I want to give.
How do you help those people?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Here's what it's like .
Have you ever met a friend whoyou've just described?
The person might be insecureabout themselves.
Does that stop you from beingtheir friend?
Speaker 1 (21:02):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
No, you are.
You're going to either be theirfriend or you're not.
You're going to say you knowwhat?
That's too much.
I don't want to take that on.
I don't want to have to workwith a friendship where I'm
going to have to boost my friendup.
But a lot of us say you knowwhat?
This person, I'm going to boostthis person up.
They're my friend, I like them,I care about them.
That's no different.
That's part of the meaningfulconnection.
When you connect with somebodyand that a mentor cares about
(21:26):
you, and maybe they say you knowwhat?
I don't have a degree.
What kind of mentor am I?
I've heard that it doesn'tmatter.
A mentee will then say whatyou're giving me matters and
then everything melts away.
It's like magic, just like whenyou make a friend and you're
like I know that when I callthat person they've got my back
(21:46):
and vice versa.
Everything else falls to theside.
Do you sit around and thinkabout it and analyze it?
No, it's just how it is.
So with mentorship, as soon asyou get that meaningful
connection, you have a bond nowwith that person.
That means something and itmatters to you.
Personality goes out the window.
Some people love a good, funnyperson that's going to crack
(22:08):
them up all the time.
That's the kind of personthey're looking for.
Another person is I wantsomebody who's going to be
vulnerable.
Everybody has a differentfriend style, mentor style,
whoever it is that they like toconnect with.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
The other aspect of mentorship.
At least through my experienceof being a mentor, I learned
from my mentee.
I may have an expert incoaching let's just stay in that
lane Expert in coaching, givinginsights, this and this, but,
man, when it comes to socialmedia technology, this person is
(22:41):
teaching me something as well,giving me certain tips.
Because it goes back to whatyou said, the relationship and
trust.
And so it goes from thestandpoint of, yeah, I'm giving
you information, giving youinsights and things like that,
but with the trust, it createsvulnerability too.
And so, as I'm giving youinsights and I'm learning about
(23:02):
you and you're learning about me, that opens me up in areas
where I'm vulnerable and I'mopen to share because I see it
as a strength in you.
And then, hey, what are yourthoughts about this?
What are your thoughts aboutthis type of technology?
I see you're efficient in that.
What can you tell me about this?
And then, next thing, you knowthis person, the mentee, is
(23:25):
teaching me something.
And now it's just an ongoingrelationship, right.
And then with that ongoingrelationship, it becomes like a
brotherhood or something, right?
That's lifelong, that you justrespect this person, you just,
and they're just a naturalfriend, even though the
relationship is mentor mentee,but this person is my friend.
(23:50):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And so that's yeah, you can change and turn into
that.
Yeah, mentorship is anemotional thing.
Coaching is more transactionaland but mentoring is an actual
emotional life stage.
So everything you justdescribed, yes, we can have
mentorship that morphs intofriendships.
One of my mentors was a boss ata job I was working at, united
(24:15):
Cerebral Palsy and we wereworking with really kids with a
lot of disabilities and I didn'tknow what I was doing and I
said and my boss saw mestruggling and after work
outside the classroom setting,outside of work, she sat me down
and she started the mentoringwith me by saying you just got
to find something in each of thekids that you can connect with.
(24:39):
It's not going about it rote.
It's not about going in anddoing a bunch of tasks, it wrote
.
It's not about going in anddoing a bunch of tasks.
You need to feel a connectionwith each and every kid and
whether that you come in and thechild and you say I don't have
anything in common with thatchild, you find it and you so.
This was the first step towardsmentoring.
(25:00):
This wasn't during the classroomtime.
It's more than 30 years laterand we're still friends that
mentoring changed and morphedand moved into a friendship, but
that's what you're talkingabout also.
Everything I'm saying isemotional.
You don't know how my jobturned out when I talk about it.
You don't know.
(25:21):
You know I don't work thereanymore, right?
When you're talking aboutcoaching, you're going to be
talking about performance, wherethey reach what they do, what
they get to.
You're going to hear that inthe conversation.
So if you find yourself reallytalking about an emotional sort
of interaction with somebody,that's one that's really ripe
for mentorship.
That's one that you shouldreally be thinking about.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I also see it as being a coach, one being
nonjudgmental in the situation,right, and I always say don't
get caught up in their story,because sometimes people come
into the sessions and they'redealing with some really unique
situations.
And as a coach but then if Ihad the mentor hat on, it's okay
(26:17):
to get into the story with thembecause now that I'm in there
with them, I have a more of anability to share my experience
and how I've used to navigate ofwhat you're going through.
And that's the beauty ofmentorship versus coaching,
(26:37):
right?
Coaching, I'm not going to getemotionally into what you got
going on.
I'm going to stay nonjudgmentaland help you self-discover what
you need to do to get throughit, whereas a mentor perspective
I'm all in there with you andI'm going to help you through my
(27:00):
experience, get you throughthis, and I want to get you
there as fast as possible and ifyou listen to me and we stay
connected, you will get therefaster.
And that's how I differentiatethe two.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's interesting.
I'm so glad you brought that up, because a lot of people will
think that mentoring is being apsychologist or being a
therapist, and it's not.
You weren't.
You know.
Yes, you want to get in thereand be able to emotionally
connect with somebody, but youalso don't want to take on
therapy with them.
I have so many people will saywe need to talk about these
(27:36):
sorts of things.
I'm like no, that's for atherapist, that is not for a
mentor.
It's also not for a coach,which you already highlighted,
and I just am glad you broughtthat up, because a lot of people
co-mingle therapy with these aswell, and I've heard people say
I don't need a psychologist ora therapist, I need a coach.
And that's a big burden to puton a coach because that's not
(27:59):
what they're there for.
That's another thing to lookout for.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
So take me through your process of how do you
connect in your project.
Do you connect people reachingout?
Hey, I want to be out for.
So take me through your processof how do you connect in your
project.
Do you connect people reachingout?
Hey?
I want to be a mentor.
I want to be a mentor.
What does that look like?
How do they connect and becomea mentor?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So when we first started, we have the top 1%
leaders, we have an astronaut,we have astrophysicists, we have
you name artists.
Whatever what happens isthey've called and then we
actually put them through aringer where they have to fill
out a long form and then theyhave a background check.
They have to meet with severalpeople.
(28:37):
It's not easy and they don'tget paid Like they're coming on
to do this for free, and then wesay and have to give two hours
a month or something, whichsounds like it's nothing and
most people want to give waymore.
But just to keep them engaged.
Because one thing we did findis that a lot of people want to
join up because they're like Ooh, I'd like to network with all
those people that are in there.
And then we have to like makesure that they're not there for
(29:00):
that.
Once they're on board, what wedo is we have a button that you
can click on the website thatsays become a mentee and we're
free for any student around theworld who wants to get a mentor,
from kindergarten all the waythrough graduate school.
They click the button and theyfill it out, and if they're a
(29:20):
minor, they have to have aguardian also sign it and they
tell a little bit aboutthemselves and who they'd like
to be connected with.
And then we have another person, after all that's done, who
helps them to navigate wherethey need to go and who they
should meet.
And we always have them meetmore than one mentor, because
(29:41):
most people think they know whothey want to meet, but we all,
no one knows what they don'tknow.
And you always find out thatyou connect with somebody who's
the farthest away maybe than youwould ever think, just because
you haven't been exposed to thatbefore.
And so then you realize, likewhen I was, like there's a
psychologist in the world.
What does that do?
Someone fixes grandmas.
That's exactly what we'retrying to do is get them to do
(30:04):
something like that.
So the way that it works for uswith the mentor project is that
we first try to get people toknow something new.
So we'll do some panels, we'llgive talks, the mentors will go
out and give presentations,because a lot of people are like
, some of these things I'venever even heard of, and so once
(30:24):
they have that, then a lot ofpeople will say, ooh, now I want
to meet with that person orseveral of the people.
And then they sign up.
We also have an innovation labwhere people can innovate, start
their own company, maybe patentsomething, do stuff like that,
and they meet as a group.
We also have a research groupwhere students can learn how to
do research.
(30:45):
We have hackathons that we'vedone in the past, where we've
brought students from differentcountries together to solve big
problems with the help ofmentors, so they can come in
different ways.
It can be hey, I have aquestion or, like the case of a
graduate student who's doing apsychology graduate student
who's doing a psychologygraduate student who's now
(31:05):
working with one of our mentorson how to make a big new shift
in psychology based on AI, soshe's helping him with his
dissertation.
We've got all these thingshappening in lots of different
ways.
It's not all one-on-one.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Okay, that's awesome.
Are the students from allaround the world or specific in
the United States?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Seven different countries.
Last year we were in fivecountries, two countries we
weren't in.
We weren't in Russia last yearand we weren't in, I think,
india last year, but we've beenin five countries last year,
seven in total, and we were ableto deliver $3 million worth of
(31:49):
mentorship hours in 2024, whichI thought was pretty awesome and
we've reached about 100,000students around the world.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
That's amazing.
And it's all free.
Congratulations, thank you.
What an amazing idea, and justto see it through and move it
forward, that's impressive.
It really is.
Share a success story, just one.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I know there's hundreds, but oh, there are Of
the mentee or the mentor.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Either one, take your shot, I don't care.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Okay, I'll give you one that just happened, which is
cool.
There's a mentor, justinThompson.
He's the senior artist forSchultz Creative Studios.
So you know Snoopy, he's theguy that draws Snoopy and goes
around the world doing Snoopydrawings on murals and whatever
he does doing Snoopy stuff.
So he became a mentor.
He was like I want to be amentor, I want to teach kids art
(32:40):
, mentor them in art, guide them.
We were like great.
At around the same time,somebody from who runs a school
in Sharadi, tanzania, said we'dlove to have a mentor come to
Tanzania to work with ourstudents.
And Justin was like I'd love togo.
So he went all the way toSharadi, tanzania, to teach 500
(33:04):
students cartooning.
They had never had Western art,they had not learned what
cartooning is.
So we sent a ton of suppliesthat would last them a really
long time, like around a year.
We selected 15 students thatwould work one-on-one with him.
But when he got there he did agiant mural on the side of the
school.
There was nothing on any wall,it was completely bare brown
(33:27):
walls everywhere.
So, he did a gigantic mural thatwas beautiful.
So just as you drive up to theschool, that's what is this big
mural.
And then the community came out.
Then it just wasn't the kids,the community came out.
People were helping him to setup scaffolding to reach the high
things.
They were helping with thestirring the paint and helping
with everything.
(33:48):
Moms were holding babies.
The kids were like runningaround.
It was fabulous.
No one expected this.
Then he went into the school andhe was teaching the kids and
they were unbelievably thrilledwith this.
So then that worked so well.
So we went back the next year,so in 2024, he went back and
(34:09):
this time he taught the teachers, not just the students, he was
mentoring everybody and how youcan not just draw a picture, but
how do you infuse emotion intoit.
And so he was doing that withthem and the teachers.
And now in January he went,with the same sort of premise
that he did with that, toFlatbush Brooklyn to do the same
(34:31):
with the same age group in aschool after school program with
New York Edge.
It's an after school program inFlatbush Brooklyn.
Our goal is to get the kids fromBrooklyn and Tanzania
eventually to connect with eachother, from Brooklyn and
(34:51):
Tanzania eventually to connectwith each other, and so that one
man, one man, Justin hasimpacted not just one child but
a community, and soon it's goingto be two countries that he's
going to be connecting.
It gets bigger and bigger withone little pebble becomes such
an enormous ripple that no onecan even imagine it until you've
actually experienced it.
(35:12):
So imagine that feeling if yougot to know the impact that you
make just one person and how youcan change a whole community.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
It's so powerful.
That is a success.
Thank you for sharing that.
I am so encouraged.
I really am.
I'm very encouraged.
How can potential mentors getin contact with you?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
People can contact us .
There's a contact button so youcan press that contact button
and you can send us questions.
We even have an ask a mentorquestion.
You don't have to be a student.
You can just say I have aquestion and we'll get a mentor
to answer it.
But you can become involved andthere are three ways that a
person can become involved.
Some people say you know what?
I don't know, that I want to bea mentor, I want to volunteer.
We're all volunteers.
We all do this as a volunteerand we get a lot of pleasure out
(35:55):
of that.
You can involve yourself in thephilanthropy side of it, which
is funding projects.
Or you can say hey, I'd reallylike to mentor and we can see if
we can fit you in.
It's really just reaching outand clicking a button on the
website.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Where's the website?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
wwwmentorprojectorg.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
There it is, everyone there.
It is Any lasting thoughts aswe close out?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Look to your left and look to your right.
You're looking at a mentor oryou're looking at a mentee and
go out and mentor somebody whoneeds help.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I love it.
I love it.
There it is.
Thank you, Debra.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate your wisdom, yourthoughts and your wonderful
story that you share.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Thank you, and thank you for having me on and for
doing all the good work you do,coach Mo.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Thank you, and thank you for having me on, and I'm
here to support you every stepof the way.
Connect with me on social mediafor updates and insights.
You can find me on Instagramand Facebook, at Coach Mo
Coaching or LinkedIn at MauriceMabry, or visit my website at
mauricemabrycom for exclusivecontent.
(37:25):
Until next time, keepreflecting, keep growing and,
most importantly, keep believingin yourself.
Remember, the most effectiveway to do it is to do it
Together.
We're making incredible stridestoward a better and more
empowered you.
So thank you, and I'll see youin our next episode.
Welcome to the let's Think About it podcast, where we
embark on a journey ofthoughtfulness and personal
growth.
I'm your host, coach Mo, andI'm here to guide you through
thought-promoting discussionsthat will inspire you to unlock
your full potential.
In each episode, we'll explorea wide range of topics, from
self-discovery and mindfulnessto goal-setting and achieving
(00:33):
success.
Together, we'll challengeconventional thinking and dive
deep into the realms ofpossibility.
Whether you're looking to findclarity in your personal or
professional life, or seekingstrategies to overcome obstacles
, this podcast is your go-tosource for insightful
conversations and practicaladvice.
So find a comfortable spot,chill and let's embark on this
(00:57):
journey of self-improvementtogether.
Remember, the power oftransformation lies within you,
and together we'll uncover thetools and insights you need to
make it happen.
So let's dive in.
Welcome to another episode ofthe let's Think About it podcast
(01:21):
.
I'm your host, coach Mo, andI'm here with another amazing
guest.
Her name is Debra.
Hi, sir, what's up, debra?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Hi, thanks for having me on your show.
I'm delighted to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Absolutely so.
Where are you checking in?
From what part of the country?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm in New York, right outside New York City.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
New York City.
Okay, born and raised.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
No, I'm originally from Des Moines, Iowa.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
How'd you end up in the New York area then?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I've been here a long time.
My parents moved, my dad was anartist, and so we moved from
Iowa when I was a kid to NewYork.
But I'm the only one out here.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Nice.
So tell my audience about whoyou are, what you do and the
type of value that you bring.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sure, my name again is Deborah Heiser.
I'm an applied developmentalpsychologist and I focus on
midlife and older.
Most developmentalpsychologists look at kids, so
I'm unusual in that respect.
I also am the CEO of the MentorProject, where we bring the top
(02:37):
1% of experts in their fieldsto mentor students around the
world for free, and I also justwrote the Mentorship Edge
defining mentorship and sayingwhat it isn't also, and so I
also.
I do other things.
I write for psychology todayand I am an adjunct at a
university out here in thepsychology departments.
That's about it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
That's amazing.
How did you develop the strongcuriosity around psychology and
mentorship?
Where did that develop from?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So it was actually.
It didn't just happen, itreally came out of a few
different things.
So I originally went into thefield of aging because my
grandmother got sick down inFlorida with depression.
I didn't know what depressionwas, I was like 20.
I went down to visit her andshe wasn't herself and I asked
the people that worked in theindependent living facility
(03:30):
what's wrong with grandma?
And they said we'll fix her,don't worry.
And I was like fix her, what doyou mean?
They said she's just depressed.
She's taking a new med and it'smaking her depressed.
She'll be better next time.
I went back down a couplemonths later and she was great.
She was back to herself.
So I said that's it.
I don't want to go to schoolfor business anymore.
(03:50):
I'm switching my majors and I'mgoing to become a psychologist
and I'm going to fix grandma's.
And it was before the field ofaging really.
So it was an unusual field todecide to go into, but I was
pretty determined.
I took a long time to get myundergrad because I switched
majors and finally got it and Iwent into work right away in the
(04:12):
field of aging in a psychiatrichospital doing research on
depression, and I took about sixyears doing that.
I went on for my doctorate at auniversity that said, hey, we
will allow you to study aging.
Nobody really focused on that,but they said they'd let me do
it and I was grateful for that.
And I then went to work in anursing home.
(04:32):
So I was studying everything noone wants to ever have or get
and I was thinking this is whataging was, and all things that
are bad, things that no onewants to ever look forward to.
And I went to a dinner party andI was really feeling pretty
good about myself.
I was, I had just written abook and I was in my early
(04:55):
thirties.
And so I was like, oh, I beteverybody's going to think I'm
so amazing when I go to thisdinner party I'm going to tell
them all about myself andeverything I'm doing.
And I told them and it was likecrickets in the room.
No one was impressed.
And then one person chimed upand said all you're doing is
like putting a bandaid oneverything we don't want for our
(05:15):
future.
What do we have to look forwardto?
And I was like, oh man, likethat was hitting me with a brick
.
Oh, I know I can imagine.
It was like crushed.
So I left that dinner party andit was truly an aha moment
where I said I need to find outwhat we're looking forward to,
because then I needed to feellike I needed to look forward to
(05:37):
something for the future.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Can I stop you there real quick In that moment?
What was the inner critictelling you about yourself at
that point in your life?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
My inner critic was not going easy on me.
I was really and truly sayingwhat have I been wasting my time
on?
I'm not helping anybody.
I am actually literally, likethis person said, putting a
Band-Aid on our future.
Because he said, ok, you'restudying depression, what does
that do for us?
And I said we can make it sothat you can have less
(06:09):
depression and it'll be less ofall this bad stuff.
And he was like that doesn'tmake me want to get old.
It was really.
It sounds like this guy wasbeing cruel, but honestly, it
was a pivotal moment for me andI was.
I'm grateful because I actuallychanged my trajectory based on
(06:29):
that conversation.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
It made me actually say, oh yeah, have you ever
gotten into the workspace andyou have your head down and
you're just going forward andyou're not thinking about
anything?
I had those blinders on andwhen I picked my head up and I
looked around and I heard avoice from somebody else saying
there's more to what you'rethinking about.
I actually felt at first I wasreally crushed, but when I went
(06:56):
back I said wow, that was a giftin a way, because I really did
go back to the literature and Idid not realize because this is
the olden days, nobody's talkingabout.
Aging was the wild west.
So I went and I looked andthere was so much research that
had been done and theory fordecades on all the good stuff we
(07:16):
have to look forward to, but itnever made it to the media.
If you Googled old age, it wasyou're going to get robbed and
there's going to be a scam andeverybody's in a wheelchair,
infirmed in some way.
Alzheimer's was somethingpeople were so afraid of getting
when they got older that theywere all taking blood tests to
see if they had the gene.
So when I found that out, I waslike, oh okay, I'm running with
(07:40):
this now and it gave me such afeeling of really not a
completeness, but a sense of Ihave a more complete picture.
I can tell now there are somestumbling blocks that we might
come across, but really ourlifespan is opportunity, not
obstacle, and that was new to me.
It was we don't have to lookfor the obstacles.
(08:03):
It's really a door is going toopen.
You're going to walk through itand you're going to find the
emotional journey is whatcarries us.
That never wanes.
It only gets higher and higherand we get happier and happier
as we get older.
So that's where I started mywork on mentorship was.
I saw the midlife stage is apoint where we are built to want
(08:24):
to give back to others withoutexpecting anything in return,
which sounds totallycounterintuitive to everything
we ever learn.
But that's really.
We're built to do that, likebreathing.
It's that much part of oursystem.
And that led me to really talkto a lot of people who are
mentors and I found out the top1% of the leaders that I had
been talking to, which was about45 people, did not have
(08:47):
connections with mentees.
They felt like they wereirrelevant.
And these are really amazingpeople that they had that they
didn't have purpose because theyweren't connected with somebody
.
They that they could pass onlike they had all this knowledge
and some of them were famousbefore and no one was there to
connect with them and I was likeno one talks about that.
(09:10):
We all go find a mentor andhere they are.
They're like here I am, look atme and there's nobody looking.
So that's how we got startedwith the mentor project was Bill
Cheswick, who's the one of thefathers of the network firewall
how we're communicating nowsafely on the internet.
(09:30):
He said I'm going to beretiring and moving to a farm
and there's nobody that I'mgoing to have connections with.
I'm going to feel terrible andI'm going to feel useless and
irrelevant and I want to feelvalidated that all the work I
did actually mattered.
It was so moving to me that Iwas like hey, bill, let's get
(09:53):
you into schools.
So a few of us formed thislittle group to get Bill into
schools, just because we thoughthow can we it's like burning
down a library if we don't.
So we did that and everybodyout there said no one is ever
going to want to join you bandof weirdos.
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And then six months later we had 60 people that
called and said can I join?
Then a couple months later,eight, it was 80.
And then a year later it was ahundred.
And it was just us volunteeringour time and we found out that
people all around the worldcrave being a mentor.
It's something we crave.
We get something out of it asmentors.
(10:35):
It's not the mentee, of course.
They get something, but we getto feel like we matter in the
world.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Absolutely.
And there's this communicationgap too, because you have people
or young students who want tobe mentored, but they have, they
carry a fear to ask for mentorsand they don't know who to ask.
Yeah, exactly, so I can see howI'm just visualizing your
(11:03):
mentor project and how youconnect people, because I
remember going through collegeright Years ago, by the way,
years ago, I know how that feels.
But I was just winging it.
I was winging it and I didn'thave that connection.
I didn't have that person Comehere, let me tell you what's
(11:24):
what and put their arm aroundyou and just give you some
guidance.
But mentorship is veryimportant, but here's the
question that I've been justdying to talk to you about
what's the difference betweenmentorship, coaching, counseling
, consulting, because it alwaysgets commingled into one.
(11:48):
How can you break that down forus?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I'm so glad you asked that I actually wrote the
mentorship edge, because it's socrazy, making for me that those
all get commingled togetherwhich then means none of them
work.
So when people are like a coachis a mentor, is a coach, you
need both.
You should have a coach and youshould have lots of mentors.
So here's what it is and whatit isn't.
(12:12):
And I like to say right off thebat if you're getting paid,
you're not a mentor, you're acoach.
That doesn't devalue coaching.
Coaching is needed.
You might be an advisor, youmight be a sponsor, you might be
something else, but you're nota mentor.
And here's why and how.
So if you're going to be amentor and this goes for mentee
also if you're going to be in amentoring relationship, somebody
(12:34):
has to be generative.
And generative is where you.
It's that developmental lifestage where you say I want to
give back without expectinganything in return.
Now, we do this all the time.
If you have a friend who says,hey, can you help me solve this
problem?
You're not going to be like,figure it out yourself, buddy,
bad friend.
You're going to say I'll helpyou.
(12:55):
Now, we're engaged in that allthe time.
That's lateral mentoring, soit's something where it's like
breathing for us.
We do it all the time now, sowe need that.
And that also means that weneed a mentee who wants to
accept what it is that mentor isgiving.
So say I, say, hey, I'm givingout wisdom on accounting, and
(13:15):
the person that is assigned tome or comes to me says I want
mentorship on dance.
That's not a mentoringrelationship.
One is giving something theother one doesn't want, and vice
versa.
If somebody is asking forsomething that somebody doesn't
want to give, that's notmentoring.
It also has to be intrinsicallymotivated, and what I mean by
that is we're often motivatedand particularly in the
(13:38):
workplace and often in schoolalso by external rewards.
That's a grade, that is, wedon't care about anything but
the grade or the paycheck or theperformance evaluation or
getting a certificate of somekind.
That is an external reward.
But let me tell you the exampleof how it looks.
(13:58):
If I were to say to you hey,coach Mo, do you want to go
volunteer your time at a soupkitchen giving out food and
beverage to hungry, thirstypeople, you might say, yeah, I
feel good when I do that.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I feel good when I give to others.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Now if I said hey, you know what, coach Mo, on your
way to the soup kitchen, justtake a left and go volunteer
time at Starbucks, insteadgiving out food and beverage to
hungry, thirsty people for free?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
How are you going?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
to feel about that.
The same activity, but two verydifferent feelings.
And we often put an external orextrinsic reward attached to
what we call mentoring.
That voids mentoring.
That means no, no, that is notmentoring.
Then it becomes coaching, itbecomes something else, it's
(14:44):
something other than mentoring.
Then we also need a meaningfulconnection.
If you say, hey, debbie, I'dlike to mentor you in something,
and I say, sure, I loveeverything you're doing, and we
hit it off and we become, Ireally say you know what he's
great, I really want to learnfrom him.
You say, sure, I loveeverything you're doing, and we
hit it off and we become.
I really say you know what he'sgreat, I really want to learn
from him.
You say, hey, she's great, Ireally want to learn.
Give, teach her everything.
(15:05):
We have a meaningful connection.
However, if I go to you and Isay, hey, coach, mo, you want to
?
Let's, I'll mentor you insomething, no-transcript, next
(15:29):
is and we see that oftentimes atwork Somebody feels, ooh, I've
been paired up with somebody,but I'm too embarrassed to tell
anybody that I don't like thisperson because it'll make me
feel like it's a failedmentorship.
No, it's not mentorship tobegin with, because you need
that we also need to trust theperson.
So imagine you're at work andyou are looking to go to your
boss for, or somebody two levelsabove or wherever.
(15:52):
A lot of people feel toovulnerable to say I don't know
something, because they want tofeel like they don't want to
feel like they don't want tofeel like that person is going
to give them a bad eval or thenthink poorly of them.
Maybe they won't give them apromotion.
We've been taught to beindispensable.
An indispensable person doesn'thave questions, so we have to
(16:14):
trust that person.
Likewise, the mentor has totrust the mentee.
Is that mentee going to stealmy idea and run away with it?
Are they going to and thathappens in finance are they
going to steal my clients and go?
We need to make sure thatthere's trust and, finally,
there has to be a goal, and thatgoal is one that could be a
one-off hey, show me the lay ofthe land of this new workplace
(16:37):
or school or it could be anever-changing goal that happens
over time, and so if you breakthat down, it makes it much
easier to see like what coachingis.
Coaching is a really structuredenvironment where it's
goal-driven and you don't haveto love your coach and your
(16:57):
coach doesn't have to love you,but you are both going to work
towards getting that goal andthat is.
There is wonderful stuff inthat I coach, but there's a
difference between the two.
And likewise, if you're engagedin sponsorship, sponsoring is
where you're opening doors forpeople.
You are talking about them inplaces where they aren't and
(17:19):
saying, hey, have you seen CoachMo?
He's amazing.
You got to check out Coach Mo.
You're doing that.
You're promoting that person inways that'll get them seen and
heard.
That's not mentorship, that'ssponsorship.
We need to do all of these andif we commingle them, we're
doing none of them.
So we're doing ourselves adisservice by not knowing which
(17:42):
thing we're engaged in, becausementorship should not be one.
We should have countlessmentors.
I would say one coach.
We don't want to have more thanone coach.
That just gets ugly.
You could have multiplesponsors.
If you're in a network, youwant to have a nice big network.
That's all potential mentorsand you want to make this as
many connections as you possiblycan, knowing their definition
(18:05):
and where each person lies.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Absolutely.
It contributes to your growthprocess, and we should always be
growing in just different areas, and particularly when you're
talking about running a businesstoo.
Right, you have the salesaspect, you have advertising,
you have marketing, you have thepeople skills, technical skills
, all of these different things,and as an entrepreneur, you
(18:28):
don't know it all.
So those are opportunities tohave mentors, but one word that
like really stuck out to me whenyou were talking about the
mentorship relationship is trust.
How does and this might be justoff the top situation, but I
can imagine there are somepeople who wants to stroke their
(18:50):
ego a little bit, and that'swhy they become a mentor.
And so they become a mentor,though they do want to give, but
they carry a certain ego.
That I'm right.
You need to do, as I say, thattype.
From that viewpoint, how do youhelp mentors that come into
your program establish trust andwork to build trust, to teach
(19:15):
them how to build trust?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So you described two things.
One is that you said a personcame in and wants to give, but
they want their ego taken careof.
That's not generative.
You want to give withoutexpecting anything in return?
Right, if you want your egostroke, that's getting something
in return.
So right there, not mentoring.
(19:40):
So that happens all the time,right, and we see this.
We can sniff that out in asecond.
And then what happens is peoplesay we just got to teach that
person to be different.
But it's like saying the babyisn't walking at six months.
You can walk at six months or16 months, it's all the same,
right, baby's not walking at sixmonths.
(20:01):
We're going to sit there andwork with that baby to walk and
get it to walk.
Babies are going to walk whenthey walk.
That guy might not begenerative at that moment we got
to say you know what?
That's all right, maybe he'sbetter at doing something else.
He might be a great sponsor forsomebody, maybe a good
networker, connection maker,whatever, but he's not a mentor.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What about how you approach a person who's really
generous and open carries acertain fear of perfectionist
into giving their mentorship.
They just carry.
I've never been thinking as aperson that's going into
mentorship.
That carries certain fears.
I'm not good with people.
(20:44):
How am I ever going to be amentor?
But I want to give.
How do you help those people?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Here's what it's like .
Have you ever met a friend whoyou've just described?
The person might be insecureabout themselves.
Does that stop you from beingtheir friend?
Speaker 1 (21:02):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
No, you are.
You're going to either be theirfriend or you're not.
You're going to say you knowwhat?
That's too much.
I don't want to take that on.
I don't want to have to workwith a friendship where I'm
going to have to boost my friendup.
But a lot of us say you knowwhat?
This person, I'm going to boostthis person up.
They're my friend, I like them,I care about them.
That's no different.
That's part of the meaningfulconnection.
When you connect with somebodyand that a mentor cares about
(21:26):
you, and maybe they say you knowwhat?
I don't have a degree.
What kind of mentor am I?
I've heard that it doesn'tmatter.
A mentee will then say whatyou're giving me matters and
then everything melts away.
It's like magic, just like whenyou make a friend and you're
like I know that when I callthat person they've got my back
(21:46):
and vice versa.
Everything else falls to theside.
Do you sit around and thinkabout it and analyze it?
No, it's just how it is.
So with mentorship, as soon asyou get that meaningful
connection, you have a bond nowwith that person.
That means something and itmatters to you.
Personality goes out the window.
Some people love a good, funnyperson that's going to crack
(22:08):
them up all the time.
That's the kind of personthey're looking for.
Another person is I wantsomebody who's going to be
vulnerable.
Everybody has a differentfriend style, mentor style,
whoever it is that they like toconnect with.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
The other aspect of mentorship.
At least through my experienceof being a mentor, I learned
from my mentee.
I may have an expert incoaching let's just stay in that
lane Expert in coaching, givinginsights, this and this, but,
man, when it comes to socialmedia technology, this person is
(22:41):
teaching me something as well,giving me certain tips.
Because it goes back to whatyou said, the relationship and
trust.
And so it goes from thestandpoint of, yeah, I'm giving
you information, giving youinsights and things like that,
but with the trust, it createsvulnerability too.
And so, as I'm giving youinsights and I'm learning about
(23:02):
you and you're learning about me, that opens me up in areas
where I'm vulnerable and I'mopen to share because I see it
as a strength in you.
And then, hey, what are yourthoughts about this?
What are your thoughts aboutthis type of technology?
I see you're efficient in that.
What can you tell me about this?
And then, next thing, you knowthis person, the mentee, is
(23:25):
teaching me something.
And now it's just an ongoingrelationship, right.
And then with that ongoingrelationship, it becomes like a
brotherhood or something, right?
That's lifelong, that you justrespect this person, you just,
and they're just a naturalfriend, even though the
relationship is mentor mentee,but this person is my friend.
(23:50):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And so that's yeah, you can change and turn into
that.
Yeah, mentorship is anemotional thing.
Coaching is more transactionaland but mentoring is an actual
emotional life stage.
So everything you justdescribed, yes, we can have
mentorship that morphs intofriendships.
One of my mentors was a boss ata job I was working at, united
(24:15):
Cerebral Palsy and we wereworking with really kids with a
lot of disabilities and I didn'tknow what I was doing and I
said and my boss saw mestruggling and after work
outside the classroom setting,outside of work, she sat me down
and she started the mentoringwith me by saying you just got
to find something in each of thekids that you can connect with.
(24:39):
It's not going about it rote.
It's not about going in anddoing a bunch of tasks, it wrote
.
It's not about going in anddoing a bunch of tasks.
You need to feel a connectionwith each and every kid and
whether that you come in and thechild and you say I don't have
anything in common with thatchild, you find it and you so.
This was the first step towardsmentoring.
(25:00):
This wasn't during the classroomtime.
It's more than 30 years laterand we're still friends that
mentoring changed and morphedand moved into a friendship, but
that's what you're talkingabout also.
Everything I'm saying isemotional.
You don't know how my jobturned out when I talk about it.
You don't know.
(25:21):
You know I don't work thereanymore, right?
When you're talking aboutcoaching, you're going to be
talking about performance, wherethey reach what they do, what
they get to.
You're going to hear that inthe conversation.
So if you find yourself reallytalking about an emotional sort
of interaction with somebody,that's one that's really ripe
for mentorship.
That's one that you shouldreally be thinking about.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I also see it as being a coach, one being
nonjudgmental in the situation,right, and I always say don't
get caught up in their story,because sometimes people come
into the sessions and they'redealing with some really unique
situations.
And as a coach but then if Ihad the mentor hat on, it's okay
(26:17):
to get into the story with thembecause now that I'm in there
with them, I have a more of anability to share my experience
and how I've used to navigate ofwhat you're going through.
And that's the beauty ofmentorship versus coaching,
(26:37):
right?
Coaching, I'm not going to getemotionally into what you got
going on.
I'm going to stay nonjudgmentaland help you self-discover what
you need to do to get throughit, whereas a mentor perspective
I'm all in there with you andI'm going to help you through my
(27:00):
experience, get you throughthis, and I want to get you
there as fast as possible and ifyou listen to me and we stay
connected, you will get therefaster.
And that's how I differentiatethe two.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's interesting.
I'm so glad you brought that up, because a lot of people will
think that mentoring is being apsychologist or being a
therapist, and it's not.
You weren't.
You know.
Yes, you want to get in thereand be able to emotionally
connect with somebody, but youalso don't want to take on
therapy with them.
I have so many people will saywe need to talk about these
(27:36):
sorts of things.
I'm like no, that's for atherapist, that is not for a
mentor.
It's also not for a coach,which you already highlighted,
and I just am glad you broughtthat up, because a lot of people
co-mingle therapy with these aswell, and I've heard people say
I don't need a psychologist ora therapist, I need a coach.
And that's a big burden to puton a coach because that's not
(27:59):
what they're there for.
That's another thing to lookout for.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
So take me through your process of how do you
connect in your project.
Do you connect people reachingout?
Hey, I want to be out for.
So take me through your processof how do you connect in your
project.
Do you connect people reachingout?
Hey?
I want to be a mentor.
I want to be a mentor.
What does that look like?
How do they connect and becomea mentor?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So when we first started, we have the top 1%
leaders, we have an astronaut,we have astrophysicists, we have
you name artists.
Whatever what happens isthey've called and then we
actually put them through aringer where they have to fill
out a long form and then theyhave a background check.
They have to meet with severalpeople.
(28:37):
It's not easy and they don'tget paid Like they're coming on
to do this for free, and then wesay and have to give two hours
a month or something, whichsounds like it's nothing and
most people want to give waymore.
But just to keep them engaged.
Because one thing we did findis that a lot of people want to
join up because they're like Ooh, I'd like to network with all
those people that are in there.
And then we have to like makesure that they're not there for
(29:00):
that.
Once they're on board, what wedo is we have a button that you
can click on the website thatsays become a mentee and we're
free for any student around theworld who wants to get a mentor,
from kindergarten all the waythrough graduate school.
They click the button and theyfill it out, and if they're a
(29:20):
minor, they have to have aguardian also sign it and they
tell a little bit aboutthemselves and who they'd like
to be connected with.
And then we have another person, after all that's done, who
helps them to navigate wherethey need to go and who they
should meet.
And we always have them meetmore than one mentor, because
(29:41):
most people think they know whothey want to meet, but we all,
no one knows what they don'tknow.
And you always find out thatyou connect with somebody who's
the farthest away maybe than youwould ever think, just because
you haven't been exposed to thatbefore.
And so then you realize, likewhen I was, like there's a
psychologist in the world.
What does that do?
Someone fixes grandmas.
That's exactly what we'retrying to do is get them to do
(30:04):
something like that.
So the way that it works for uswith the mentor project is that
we first try to get people toknow something new.
So we'll do some panels, we'llgive talks, the mentors will go
out and give presentations,because a lot of people are like
, some of these things I'venever even heard of, and so once
(30:24):
they have that, then a lot ofpeople will say, ooh, now I want
to meet with that person orseveral of the people.
And then they sign up.
We also have an innovation labwhere people can innovate, start
their own company, maybe patentsomething, do stuff like that,
and they meet as a group.
We also have a research groupwhere students can learn how to
do research.
(30:45):
We have hackathons that we'vedone in the past, where we've
brought students from differentcountries together to solve big
problems with the help ofmentors, so they can come in
different ways.
It can be hey, I have aquestion or, like the case of a
graduate student who's doing apsychology graduate student
who's doing a psychologygraduate student who's now
(31:05):
working with one of our mentorson how to make a big new shift
in psychology based on AI, soshe's helping him with his
dissertation.
We've got all these thingshappening in lots of different
ways.
It's not all one-on-one.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Okay, that's awesome.
Are the students from allaround the world or specific in
the United States?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Seven different countries.
Last year we were in fivecountries, two countries we
weren't in.
We weren't in Russia last yearand we weren't in, I think,
india last year, but we've beenin five countries last year,
seven in total, and we were ableto deliver $3 million worth of
(31:49):
mentorship hours in 2024, whichI thought was pretty awesome and
we've reached about 100,000students around the world.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
That's amazing.
And it's all free.
Congratulations, thank you.
What an amazing idea, and justto see it through and move it
forward, that's impressive.
It really is.
Share a success story, just one.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I know there's hundreds, but oh, there are Of
the mentee or the mentor.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Either one, take your shot, I don't care.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Okay, I'll give you one that just happened, which is
cool.
There's a mentor, justinThompson.
He's the senior artist forSchultz Creative Studios.
So you know Snoopy, he's theguy that draws Snoopy and goes
around the world doing Snoopydrawings on murals and whatever
he does doing Snoopy stuff.
So he became a mentor.
He was like I want to be amentor, I want to teach kids art
(32:40):
, mentor them in art, guide them.
We were like great.
At around the same time,somebody from who runs a school
in Sharadi, tanzania, said we'dlove to have a mentor come to
Tanzania to work with ourstudents.
And Justin was like I'd love togo.
So he went all the way toSharadi, tanzania, to teach 500
(33:04):
students cartooning.
They had never had Western art,they had not learned what
cartooning is.
So we sent a ton of suppliesthat would last them a really
long time, like around a year.
We selected 15 students thatwould work one-on-one with him.
But when he got there he did agiant mural on the side of the
school.
There was nothing on any wall,it was completely bare brown
(33:27):
walls everywhere.
So, he did a gigantic mural thatwas beautiful.
So just as you drive up to theschool, that's what is this big
mural.
And then the community came out.
Then it just wasn't the kids,the community came out.
People were helping him to setup scaffolding to reach the high
things.
They were helping with thestirring the paint and helping
with everything.
(33:48):
Moms were holding babies.
The kids were like runningaround.
It was fabulous.
No one expected this.
Then he went into the school andhe was teaching the kids and
they were unbelievably thrilledwith this.
So then that worked so well.
So we went back the next year,so in 2024, he went back and
(34:09):
this time he taught the teachers, not just the students, he was
mentoring everybody and how youcan not just draw a picture, but
how do you infuse emotion intoit.
And so he was doing that withthem and the teachers.
And now in January he went,with the same sort of premise
that he did with that, toFlatbush Brooklyn to do the same
(34:31):
with the same age group in aschool after school program with
New York Edge.
It's an after school program inFlatbush Brooklyn.
Our goal is to get the kids fromBrooklyn and Tanzania
eventually to connect with eachother, from Brooklyn and
(34:51):
Tanzania eventually to connectwith each other, and so that one
man, one man, Justin hasimpacted not just one child but
a community, and soon it's goingto be two countries that he's
going to be connecting.
It gets bigger and bigger withone little pebble becomes such
an enormous ripple that no onecan even imagine it until you've
actually experienced it.
(35:12):
So imagine that feeling if yougot to know the impact that you
make just one person and how youcan change a whole community.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
It's so powerful.
That is a success.
Thank you for sharing that.
I am so encouraged.
I really am.
I'm very encouraged.
How can potential mentors getin contact with you?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
People can contact us .
There's a contact button so youcan press that contact button
and you can send us questions.
We even have an ask a mentorquestion.
You don't have to be a student.
You can just say I have aquestion and we'll get a mentor
to answer it.
But you can become involved andthere are three ways that a
person can become involved.
Some people say you know what?
I don't know, that I want to bea mentor, I want to volunteer.
We're all volunteers.
We all do this as a volunteerand we get a lot of pleasure out
(35:55):
of that.
You can involve yourself in thephilanthropy side of it, which
is funding projects.
Or you can say hey, I'd reallylike to mentor and we can see if
we can fit you in.
It's really just reaching outand clicking a button on the
website.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Where's the website?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
wwwmentorprojectorg.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
There it is, everyone there.
It is Any lasting thoughts aswe close out?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Look to your left and look to your right.
You're looking at a mentor oryou're looking at a mentee and
go out and mentor somebody whoneeds help.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I love it.
I love it.
There it is.
Thank you, Debra.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate your wisdom, yourthoughts and your wonderful
story that you share.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Thank you, and thank you for having me on and for
doing all the good work you do,coach Mo.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Thank you, and thank you for having me on, and I'm
here to support you every stepof the way.
Connect with me on social mediafor updates and insights.
You can find me on Instagramand Facebook, at Coach Mo
Coaching or LinkedIn at MauriceMabry, or visit my website at
mauricemabrycom for exclusivecontent.
(37:25):
Until next time, keepreflecting, keep growing and,
most importantly, keep believingin yourself.
Remember, the most effectiveway to do it is to do it
Together.
We're making incredible stridestoward a better and more
empowered you.
So thank you, and I'll see youin our next episode.
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