In this episode of Let’s Thrive Postpartum, Kelly Ling, founder of Stork & Spark, joins Kelly Siebold to talk about what so many ambitious moms struggle with but rarely say out loud: how to go back to work after baby with confidence and without sidelining your ambition.
Whether you’re pregnant and planning ahead or already back on the job, this conversation is packed with practical strategies and honest insight to help you navigate career, identity, and mental health with confidence.
You’ll hear:
• When and how to tell your employer you’re pregnant
• How to prepare for leave and your return on your terms
• What to do if you’re struggling with postpartum depression or anxiety at work
• Why your ambition still matters and how to advocate for it
• How to hold boundaries, set expectations, and model leadership for other parents
If you’re building a career and raising a baby, this episode is for you. You do not have to choose between the two and you do not have to do it alone.
Learn more about Kelly Ling at storkandspark.com
Support is just one click away - check out these additional resources designed to support your postpartum mental health:
- Download our free Postpartum Mental Health Plan https://wethrivepostpartum.com/postpartum-plan/
- Learn more about Thrive Postpartum’s virtual support for pregnant and postpartum moms, including virtual support groups, education, expert-led events, and a supportive community of moms who understand your journey https://wethrivepostpartum.com/join
- Email us with a question or postpartum topic you want us to discuss at podcast@wethrivepostpartum.com
- Hit subscribe to never miss an episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to Let's ThrivePostpartum, where we tackle
postpartum depression andanxiety.
Head on, guiding you back toyourself.
Join Kelly Seabold, founder ofThrive Postpartum and Ashley
Moore, a maternal mental healththerapist.
Through honesty and laughter, weshare expert advice and real
stories.
(00:25):
While not therapy or medicaladvice, you'll find education,
support and hope.
Welcome to the village.
Let's thrive postpartum.
Kelly Siebold (00:37):
Moms and welcome back to Let's Thrive Postpartum.
I'm Kelly and I'm really excitedto introduce to you all Kelly
Ling in our conversation today,this is one of those
conversations that we haven'ttalked about yet on the podcast,
but it affects.
Each and every one of us moms.
It is that return to work if youare going back to work.
(01:00):
And so I wanna preface thissaying this is not a go back to
work conversation.
This is not a shame one way orthe other, but so many of us
make the decision whether wewant to or not.
But how do you go back to workafter having a child and how do
you plan.
For it.
And Kelly is going to help walkus through everything you need
to know whether you're pregnantnow and you're planning, or if
(01:23):
you've already returned back towork, what you can really do to.
Honor that transformation.
So let me introduce y'all toKelly Ling.
She is the founder of Stork andSpark.
It's a coaching and communityplatform dedicated to supporting
career vicious expected parentswho are navigating career
growth.
(01:44):
An identity during pregnancyleave and return to work.
So before founding Stork andSpark, she spent 15 years in
corporate roles focused onstrategy, innovation, and
learning and development.
Along the way, like many of us,she had two kids who helped her
fuel her creative andentrepreneurial spirit.
(02:04):
Her mom hats include IVF, Vasa,Privia survivor.
The preemie and nicu, and now aboy mom of two under the age of
three.
Kelly, thank you so much forbeing here with us today.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (02:19):
Thank you Kelly for having me.
I'm so excited to have thisconversation and thank
Kelly Siebold (02:24):
I.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (02:24):
that introduction.
It's so good to be here.
Kelly Siebold (02:27):
So Kelly, I'd love before we jump in to set
the stage for all of our moms.
I think at least my perceptionof society, there really is kind
of stigma, good or bad.
Everybody has opinions aboutreturn to work, and so I think
for myself seeing stats, I.
About return to work has kind ofhelped me frame my own kind of
perception.
(02:47):
And so I'd love to share a fewthings with all of you right now
in the US according to stats,the average maternity leave is
about.
10 weeks and 55% of moms returnright after having a baby.
But that number increasesexponentially with almost 70% of
moms being back in the workforceby the time that their child is
(03:08):
five.
And there's been a lot ofstudies of benefits if you're
returning to work.
So if you feel guilty, don't,there's lots of great benefits.
So I found a research paper thatwas drafted by Beth Lewis and
the team at the University ofMinnesota.
And their research showed thatmothers who worked outside of
the home had fewer postpartumdepression symptoms at seven
(03:31):
months than mothers who werenot, and those proactive
benefits were regardless if thatmother was full-time or
part-time.
And then there's even long-termeffects on the baby.
So another research study that Ifound from Harvard Business
School said that moms whoworked, their daughters made 23%
more money in their lifetimethan daughters of mothers who
(03:53):
did not work.
So there's impacts for your babyand there's the personal ones.
For me, it really did help myidentity after having postpartum
depression.
Literally getting back andmaking myself put on clothes and
be in front of a Zoom call justhelped me have social
interaction and talk with otherparents.
So wanted to kind of set thatstage of it can be beneficial.
(04:15):
There's some great points togoing back, especially if you're
struggling with depression.
It's been proven to help.
So, Kelly, just my 2 cents.
Before we kind of jump into howto do this correctly, so let's
talk.
I love to bring in yourexperience and your expertise to
talk to us about how do you talkabout pregnancy in the
(04:36):
workplace.
Let's say you're a mom andyou're pregnant right now.
What do you do?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (04:42):
Yeah.
What, what do you do?
There's so, there's so many Itto get started.
Before I jump into answeringthat question, I just, I love
the context that you said.
I wanna shout out to my ownmother who was a working mother
and probably helped me make that23% higher salary because she
was working and she was also asoftware engineer.
So up against stereotypes anddifferent things in her day.
(05:04):
So super grateful for that.
And then the other piece about,going back to work, whatever
that looks like for you, whetherit's paid Not, volunteer,
part-time, full-time there's,there's so much of identity that
is wrapped into a career, beforehaving kids.
And so if you go from like your,you know, 80% of your identity
being career, then moving intoparents and not having that
(05:26):
identity come back other thanparent identity that.
Can really kind of get you stuckin a loop or contribute to
postpartum mood disorders versuskind of getting out of that.
And so you so much for, forsharing that I think it's really
important.
And so then the question is,well, how do you do it?
Right?
no right way.
(05:46):
Right?
But Some best practices.
We'll talk about what, what doeswork or things to keep in mind
as we go from the pregnancyleave and return to work
journey.
Kelly Siebold (05:57):
sounds great.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Stor (05:58):
You asked about like, how do you
start with sharing the news?
And, and to me this is the, thisis when thinking about return to
work, the best place to start iswhen and how you share the news
at work.
Or if you're at the part offamily planning or fertility
planning, you're alreadythinking about how this impacts
your career.
Awesome.
But let's say you like found outyou were pregnant.
About like a week ago, andyou're excited, you shared the
(06:20):
news with your partner and somefamily, but you haven't told
Brooke yet.
And so how do you do that?
How does that go?
And so my push is one is you,when you share the news, share
it with confidence.
I am so excited that I ampregnant and going to have this
baby and extend my family.
This has been part of my plansor maybe it wasn't part of my
plans, but I'm excited for itand there's gonna be changes and
(06:42):
it's going to be great.
So start off sharing the newswith excitement and confidence
that this is happening to you,rather than, what oftentimes
happens is a sheepish, like, bythe way.
Manager like, I'm pregnant,don't worry, it won't impact my
work.
Don't worry.
Like I'll have a leap.
Don't worry, pregnant versus I'mso excited I'm pregnant.
(07:03):
And so my push is focus on that.
I'm excited I'm pregnant.
And get your manager and team onboard'cause you want'em excited
for you too.
You also don't want them to kindof worry about, okay, what is
the gap, the coverage plan, soon and so forth.
So celebrate with confidence andThat's your starting point of
even again, thinking about goingback to work, you're starting
off honoring your transformationinto parenthood by starting with
(07:25):
confidence.
You're honoring that baby thatyou're gonna have and you're
setting the tone at work oflike, Hey, this is an awesome
thing that is happening for allof us.
So that's
Kelly Siebold (07:34):
I love that
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (07:35):
Yeah.
Good.
Kelly Siebold (07:36):
because I have seen friends myself.
You wanna go up and you're like,how do I minimize this for my
employer?
How do I say, don't worry.
You're not really saying I'msorry, but you are upfront
trying to make it easier forthem versus saying, I'm so
excited.
This is amazing news.
Now let's figure out how to doit.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (07:55):
Yes.
Kelly Siebold (07:55):
see when you say it out loud that there is
definitely a different deliverytone and getting them excited
for you could be key to that.
Do you then if you say it,you're confident and you're real
saying, I'm, I'm excited this ishappening.
I'm gonna have a child.
When do you bring up, now whatdo we do?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (08:11):
Yeah,
Kelly Siebold (08:11):
How do you help them pray for it.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (08:13):
soon thereafter?
Let's talk about the timing ofwhen to bring this up.
Before I get there, so I'mtalking to you as a mom, as a
parent, as the pregnant person,or maybe as an expectant father,
if you're excited to share thenews.
One quick note for managers.
When you get this news, startwith congrats.
It's an easy thing to forget.
Think about it as like from whatyou would wanna hear from a
friend or from a family member,or when someone shares that news
(08:35):
with you, start with congrats.
And so you can help that, thattone by saying like, Hey, this
is awesome.
I'm happy for you.
Rather than, what is easy to getinto is that same.
mindset of like, oh my gosh,like how you're gonna go out on
leave?
How am I gonna fill those gaps?
And so on and so forth.
So again, the advice there,start with congrats if you're
the manager and if you're theperson, start with how excited
(08:55):
you are and when do you sharethe news.
So again, what might make iteasier for you and your manager
and your organization, if thatis top of mind, is sharing it as
early as.
you can, conventional Is waitingfor after the first trimester.
You wanna make sure the baby isviable.
You wanna make sure kind ofhealth conditions are in check.
And again, you don't wannadisrupt work.
(09:17):
And so my push here is theearlier you share, one, the more
in control of the narrative youhave, and again, narrative being
how excited you are and thenmoving into, okay, so let's talk
about leave coverage planning.
We have, if you share at twomonths, we have eight months, 8,
7, 7 months to figure this out.
That's a long time.
(09:38):
That's more than half a year,and so suddenly it's easy to be
excited for you because I knowwe have a long time to figure
out what this pathway must.
Like, versus like, Hey, I'm sixmonths pregnant, or I'm seven
months pregnant, I'm gonna goout in about two weeks.
Let's figure out this plan,which is anxiety inducing for
both sides.
So my push is to share early.
It is uncomfortable, it'sunconventional but it gives you
(10:00):
the power, the power of thenarrative is in your side.
And.
Other parts of this too is Iwork a lot with career ambitious
moms.
They're on promotion track,right?
They need to get their review inright before the performance
cycle.
'cause going out is gonna impactthat.
and so there's all these thingsthat might be top of mind.
earlier you share, the more timeyou have to.
(10:24):
Build out what that pathwaymight look for you so that when
you come back, you're still onpromotion track or you actually
come back to a promotion, whichI've talked to several folks
where that is the actual outcomethe other thing here is like it
morning sickness is very real.
So morning, sickness, fatigue,all these physical things that
happened to you in that firsttrimester.
When society tells you, Hey,keep it a secret, don't tell
(10:46):
that.
Sucks, right?
Three months, you're likethrowing up in trash cans,
you're sweating, you have thatglo, whatever it is, and you're
trying, maybe you're
Kelly Siebold (10:55):
Yeah.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ S (10:56):
again, you're like at performance
review cycle and people aregiving you performance and you
might not feel your best andyou're carrying this mental load
of, Hey, I'm, I'm pregnant andI'm excited, but I can't tell
anybody.
Or like, Hey, I'm pregnant and Ifeel sick as a dog and I can't
tell anybody.
so part of the push also toshare early is to give context
for like maybe why you're notshowing up a hundred percent,
why you're tired, why thosedoctor's appointments are coming
(11:18):
up.
Is it their business?
Not necessarily, but is it yourbusiness to share if you want
to?
Absolutely.
Right.
And so again, this is, it'sabout you controlling the
narrative, you controlling thisstory as you move into your
pregnancy.
Tell me a little bit morethough.
I
Kelly Siebold (11:31):
I love.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ S (11:32):
along.
What was, what was
Kelly Siebold (11:33):
I do.
So I'm just, I'm so intrigued bythis.
'cause I love the fact thatyou're also talking about career
ambitious women who are goingthrough this.
Because a lot of times, youknow, the stigma is you now need
to focus on motherhood and let'snot continue to focus on your
career and still saying you'reallowed to be an ambitious
career focused woman and you'reallowed to be a mom and you're
allowed to both.
So tell me a little bit more,when you're working with career
(11:55):
ambitious women who are goingthrough this phase, any advice
for any of them who arelistening?
That might be really relevantwhen they're trying to go after
that promotion or make surethey're not about to lose the
big deals that are coming downthe, the pipe or those steps,
you know, that leadership rolethat they've built.
How do you help them feel kindof confident in this space when
they have to say, I'm gonna stepaway for a while.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (12:17):
Yes.
So excellent question.
So now you've shared the news atlike two months.
So you have like the
Kelly Siebold (12:21):
Okay.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ (12:22):
runway, more than half a year.
That's a lot of time.
So there's two key things thatyou can do during this period.
One is if you're not alreadyhaving regular one-on-one
conversations with your manageror leader on your career scope
and goals, get those started.
And if you do have thoseregularly going on now,
integrate.
Well, what does leave look likeand what does it look like on
the return?
(12:43):
So what I'd say is if you don'talready have like monthly,
hopefully you have like weeklyor some kind of regular touch
base for general work, and youhave a section of time that's
very spoke focused on careerdevelopment.
So as you've shared the newsnow, you have several touch
points with your manager.
One is like, Hey, I've been onpromotion track.
I still wanna be on promotiontrack like That ambition isn't
going anywhere.
Please don't make assumptionsthat it might.
(13:03):
Because there are societyassumptions.
Hey, maybe they're gonna pause.
Maybe they're gonna step back.
Maybe they're not gonna comeback to work.
All of which is okay too, butyou want to control that
narrative.
You don't want someone to makethat assumption for you, so you
be a.
Front and clear like, Hey, I amstill here and excited and with
it.
So let's plan what my careertrajectory and pathway look like
(13:25):
while I'm pregnant and planningfor leave, and then what it
looks like when I come back.
So those are the careerconversations.
Then let's move into, okay, wellwhat does actual leave planning
look like?
So again, I push like, Hey,start, leave planning at three
or four months pregnant, right?
Kelly Siebold (13:39):
Okay.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (13:39):
have several months, and when you're
planning.
Include your partners, right?
Include like if you're clientfacing, at some point you're
gonna have to let your clientsknow.
Letting them know early alsogives them some peace of mind
that you're thinking ahead ofwhat their transition plan will
be.
If you're not client facing, butyou have a lot of like.
High level stakeholders in theorganization, sharing early with
(14:00):
them also, and inviting theminto your planning.
and then the other part that Ilove is if you're career
ambitious, you probably havecareer ambitious people on your
team.
As a people manager, for thestep up opportunities that they
can step up in and to take workstreams off your hands.
So if you have, if you havesomething that you're working on
and you've been like partneringwith the junior associates and
(14:22):
you have confidence that theycan likely lead it in your
absence, delegate it to them.
Early.
Right.
Give them two or three months tooperate it.
So you can advise coach andwatch them do it.
Give it to them while you'reout.
And best part, when you comeback, keep it with them.
Don't take it back.
Let them, grow with it and giveyourself that space to step into
that larger scope role that youare seeking.
(14:43):
so that's, kind of how when Italk about coverage planning, to
me it's about elevating.
Your team.
So your direct reports, it'selevating your partners showing
them that you have coverage orinviting them to help provide
that coverage.
It's elevating your managerbecause you're making their life
really easy by saying, Hey, Igot this covered.
So that they can focus on beingyour sponsor in those
(15:04):
conversations aroundperformance, calibration, et
cetera.
And the earlier, again, that youshare, if there's budget to tap
into for a contractor to take onsome of your work, if you know
you have to like find aninterview and there's a lead
time there too.
And so if that's an option foryou, which is should be, I wish
it was more you have time tobring in that person and train
(15:24):
them.
So then the side note there.
Side note to like organizationsor managers to the extent that
you have influence to havebudget for contractors, or I
even seen companies havebasically like SWAT teams that
go in and cover for people'sleaves.
All really great ways to helpplug or cover some of that work
while you're out.
(15:45):
And again, the earlier that youshare, the more time you have to
train to see operate, to thenfeel confident that things are
covered.
So that you can go on leave andnot stress about the work that
you've left behind.
Kelly Siebold (15:57):
I love that and I love that companies are, that
forward thinking to say, we needto have regular coverage
opportunities as we have moremoms go out.
Do you have any advice for thoseambitious women who have gotten.
Coverage.
They have the buy-in, they havethe replacement of worried well,
maybe there's not a need for mewhen I'm ready and I'm back.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (16:17):
Hmm.
That is interesting.
I, I, that is a, that can be afear, but I have always operated
and I try to work with people tooperate from the mindset of
like, your whole goal in any jobis to work yourself out of a job
so that you can take on bigger,bigger scope, bigger
responsibilities.
And so, I don't know if thatanswers that specific question.
(16:38):
'cause that, requires a bit of amindset shift, but.
To the, like, to the extent thatyou are, getting your role
covered almost fully andcompletely so that you can step
in either to a bigger scope oryou're designing what a new role
could look like for you, again,with your manager and you're
basically helping fill yourcurrent role while you're
planning leave and on leave sothat you can come back into a
(17:00):
new role.
way actually that this can alsohelp is maybe you're in a people
manager role and You do want todo a little bit of a step back
or you wanna do a pause or aslow down or even like move to
ic, individual contributor typerole.
This is another way to move intothose roles that you want,
because that might be better foryou on the other side of leave
and proactively plan for thecoverage, proactively plan for
(17:24):
your current scope.
so it doesn't have Be biggerscope or or larger role.
It can just be what is it thatyou need next, and then how do
you plan now?
Kelly Siebold (17:34):
And that's it.
It's looking at what do I thinkI'm gonna want?
Obviously you have a child andthat plan may shift, right?
A lot of things happen.
Perspectives change, but whatwould be the perfect outcome,
and how do you kind of setyourself up for success when you
do come back?
How do you make it somethingthat's really advantageous to
what you want that also worksfor your employer?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ S (17:53):
That's exactly right.
And so I think the best practicethere is doing that proactive
planning, that introspection ofwhat is it that you want on the
other side, you've always wantedto grow.
Is this the same way that youwanna grow or do you wanna grow
in a different way?
I.
those conversations with yourmanager so that you can plan for
it.
And you're right, things stillmight change when you go out on
leave.
Things change when you have thatbaby, right?
(18:14):
And you feel different andthings happen happening to your
brain.
You are changing, and so yourpriorities may shift as well.
And so the proactive planning isimportant and also be prepared
for you to change your mind orhave some differences.
But maintaining that line ofcommunication and constant
introspection of what is it thatyou want will help you.
(18:34):
that and communicate your needsthere.
That's the, guidance.
Kelly Siebold (18:39):
I love it.
So that is, if you're pregnantnow, right Kelly?
How do you go through, how doyou talk about it?
How do you plan for it?
What about our moms who arelistening that have maybe
already had a child, they'vemaybe gone back to work.
How do you plan or kind ofimplement any of this if you are
already had your child andyou're returning to work?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (18:58):
Yes.
Yes, yes.
So you've already had youreither returning or you've
recently returned.
So I talk about the pre-babytime as that's your proactive
planning and strategy session.
When you're going back to workor when you're back at work.
That's the time both toimplement and also to level up
your advocacy, and level up.
Leading with confidence.
So we talked about at the verybeginning, you share the news of
(19:20):
having a baby with confidence.
Well, now it's, hey, you'reconfident, you, you transformed
into a parent, right?
You are not the same person thatyou were before you went out.
You are not, things are notgonna necessarily go back to how
they were before.
Your plate is fuller.
You may have shiftingpriorities, like keeping a human
alive is a whole new skill thatyou're developing.
(19:41):
And, throughout this time,you've also.
Tweak certain skills that aremanagement level skills, right?
So we're talking prioritization,delegation, releasing control,
asking for help.
Some of these things that comewith leadership and management,
and maybe you were great at thembefore, many of us are not,
right?
And so you're thrown into havinga baby.
And then you come out the otherside and you're actually not
(20:01):
pretty good at it.
So when you come back to work,there is this honoring the
transformation of moving into.
Parenthood, motherhood or Ithink the term is called mires
essence, which is the corollaryto adolescence, right?
So mires essence becoming amother, which again is, is not
just like a black or white,happens overnight.
It's this continuum of like, nowyou're a mother and you're gonna
(20:21):
go through life with newbornlife with a baby life, with a
toddler life, with littles pre,and so on and so forth.
And so it's
Kelly Siebold (20:28):
Yeah.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ S (20:29):
that's not gonna change.
So not gonna go back to who youwere before.
But you have this foresight ofthese changes that are
happening.
So how do you honor them?
How do you highlight how you'vechanged and how that's gonna
show up in the workplace in apositive way?
Again, confidently talk aboutparenthood, being unapologetic.
When we talk about like, Hey,I'm taking my pump breaks.
(20:50):
I need to go to the room and,and pump milk.
Hey, my kid needs to be pickedup from daycare.
I cannot be late and leave mychild.
And holding these boundariesthat maybe in the past you were
a little bit more flexible on,you were okay going late on
meetings, different things.
Now you're in this world ofholding those boundaries because
there are, I.
Higher stakes.
So it's holding the boundaries,being your advocate.
(21:11):
And all of this is showingreally strong leadership to
those in the rest of yourorganization who are seeing you
hold those boundaries who areseeing you be serious about it.
And it is a positive signal toother parents or those in
situations where there's lessflexibility and they're seeing
someone hold them and stick tothem.
But the piece I'll share hereis, you know your needs best
(21:34):
like when you're pregnant,coming back, if you're working
with other parents, everyone'ssituations are so unique.
And so while there might beempathy, there's not enough to
understand what it is it thatyou specifically need.
So you need to be the one tocommunicate what is it that you
need, and hold those boundariesthat people understand again,
(21:54):
what it is that you need and.
If they see you holdingboundaries, they'll hold them
too.
If they see you slip, go, okay,well maybe they're okay taking a
meeting during her pump break.
Maybe she's okay waiting five to10 extra minutes to go pick up
her kid.
So you gotta be your advocate,hold your boundaries, and others
will do it.
Kelly Siebold (22:12):
And I think that's a great point that they
will hold it if you hold it.
I also, when we were having ourchild, I had another pregnant
coworker and she directlyreported to me and I wanted to
make sure that I did everythingthat I wanted her to.
Do.
So I took time off.
I did what I needed to.
I held boundaries because Iwanted her to know that it was
acceptable for her to do it.
And as a manager, that was partof my role to make it anybody
(22:33):
who was below me to know youwere safe as well to do it
right.
How do you also set thatstandard for other people in
your organization if you're atthat level so that other moms
know this is safe, this isacceptable.
She's not working 24 hours a dayanymore.
I don't have to either.
Right.
There's this transformation thathappens.
Be a role model.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (22:52):
That is exactly right.
Thank you for being that rolemodel when we were in that
situation because it's soimportant to see what others are
doing.
I think back to my experience,so much of how I navigated was
asking moms, asking the moms mycoworkers ahead of time, like,
Hey, what to prepare for?
How did you leave?
How did you come back?
I think one of the best advice Igot was, are gonna be different
(23:12):
when you come back and yourstandards might be different.
Your quality standards of yourwork might be different.
And so just.
Hearing that and then processingthat and then being okay with
that on the other side wasreally helpful to then realize
when I was like, oh, like Imight have stayed up all night
working on that.
I'm not gonna do that this timebecause I don't need to or I
shouldn't.
Was really helpful.
Kelly Siebold (23:34):
Yes, and I think you do, as you mentioned before,
you gain all these new skills oryou refine them.
Being a new parent,
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (23:39):
Yeah.
Kelly Siebold (23:40):
my ability to time manage and prioritize went
through the roof.
So what may have taken me longerat work pre-child was much more
streamlined after child.
'cause I had other things I hadto get to that needed to get
done.
So it kind of came with anadditional superpower in that
same realm of how do you makethis work better?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (23:58):
yes, yes, yes and yes.
Kelly Siebold (24:01):
Kelly, I would love your thoughts on this, and
I know this might not be yourexact area, but Right.
Coming back to work, I hadpostpartum depression.
I had anxiety.
I had intrusive thoughts.
I had all the stuff, and I wasin a C-suite at that point and
did not talk to my.
Leader about, here's what'shappening.
One, because I felt like I couldcontrol it, two, worked, helped
me, right?
(24:22):
Helped me have a little sense ofwho I was to find myself again.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (24:24):
Yeah.
Kelly Siebold (24:25):
I did talk to my coworker, I was very upfront,
like, I might need someadditional support in this area.
If you see me acting weird,don't be worried.
Here's why.
Do you have recommendations formoms who might be struggling
coming back, who are ambitiouswomen?
I don't know that I did the bestthing at all, but do you have
any advice of things they shouldor shouldn't do or maybe each
(24:45):
situation is unique?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (24:47):
Well, I definitely think each
situation is unique.
I think
Kelly Siebold (24:50):
Yeah.
Kelly Ling | Founder (24:50):
important to take postpartum period
seriously.
And you know, as a mom, you'regonna do a whole bunch of checks
with your doctor and differentthings, and they're gonna assess
whether, maybe, whether or notyou have it.
The checklists seem a little bitweird or odd though, so it
doesn't necessarily feelauthentic.
And so again for me, I.
I, my situation, I don't think Ihad it, but I didn't know if I
(25:12):
did or not, didn't because I wasso afraid that I was going to
have it and I didn't know whatit was gonna feel like.
And I hadn't had depression inthe past.
My concern or anxiety stemaround like, do I have it or
not?
Like how am I gonna know?
So one thing that really helpedwas talking with my doctor about
it.
For my first, it was a bit moreof a traumatic experience.
I VAs prev survivor.
I was in the hospital for twomonths.
My son was born at 34 weeks.
(25:34):
He was a preemie.
He was in the NICU for six.
Weeks.
So it was a deal all ripe forpotential postpartum depression,
but I still didn't know if I hadit or not.
so my doctor had me talk to atherapist to work through is
this something that you need ornot?
And at the end she kind of saidthis isn't what you need right,
right now.
And that actually made me feelreally good because I was like,
okay, I didn't know, but you asan expert are telling me this is
(25:57):
not something that I need.
But where I found.
Solace or where I found what Ineeded was actually in Facebook
communities.
So I did need community.
It was just not necessarily theone-on-one expert way.
So what really helped me is Ijoined NICU Facebook groups.
I joined Za Previa survivorgroups.
I joined extended breastfeedingor like was like only pumping
(26:21):
'cause I was only pumping forthe beginning for my first
journey.
Kelly Siebold (26:24):
Okay.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (26:24):
were all these like, super specific
experiences I was having.
And then I could go in and be alittle bit of a lurker and then
every now and then, like put myown question in, but really just
feel surrounded by people whoare going through similar
experience and learning fromthem.
That's what I needed.
But again, I think everyone isunique, so I would say take it
seriously.
I think regardless of where youare, community.
(26:44):
It is really, really helpful.
However you build that andwhether it's local in person,
whether it's online, and whetheryou're also seeking expert
resources because you aresuffering from a disorder and
need additional help look intoit and take it seriously.
Kelly Siebold (27:00):
I love that advice.
And so moms, if you're trying tofind your group thrive, we're
opening back up soon.
Feel free to come learn aboutour virtual community, to meet
other moms.
And so Kelly, I'd love to knowif you would also tell us about
what you are doing with Storkand Spark and how you are
helping moms go through thisambitious career change.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (27:19):
Yes.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
I'll tell you now, but thatmight be different.
When folks listen, things areconstantly evolving and my
company itself is only abouthalf a year old.
Two primary ways I'm workingdirectly with moms.
One is I have a cohort of folkswho are in a similar season.
So you're either pregnant onleave or returning.
You're in that.
The career ambitious mindset,and we meet together six times
(27:40):
over a course of three months.
So it's not your whole journey,but it's a good subsection.
And you're meeting other moms,building that community, and we
have some one-on-one coachingsessions.
So I'm working with you on yourspecific goals and the
one-on-one sessions, and I'mbringing community together
through this coaching cohort.
I'm also partnering withorganizations, so their parents,
ERGs or different things tobring them, a speech or a
(28:01):
webinar on how to grow yourcareer while pregnant or on
leave.
And then moving into partnershipprograms, either like a
coaching, coaching program orwhat I would really love to do
is help organizations buildreturnships.
So we talked so much aboutthriving postpartum and coming
back into the workforce, and theworkforce is not set up for
people to come back to after along career break.
And yet there's.
Such exceptional talent outthere, right?
(28:23):
Like you learn so much being aparent, you're so agile.
You were, you have so muchexperience from before.
So how do we make that a littlebit easier and build the
infrastructure?
Those are some of the thingsthat I am doing today.
Also offer some one-on-onecoaching and different things,
but it will continue to evolve.
And I offer like a ton of freeadvice on LinkedIn.
I have a newsletter that I wouldlove for you all to join with a
(28:43):
lot of tips, information, and Ipost.
Open roles that are parentfriendly.
I've decided what parentfriendly means.
For the most part, it's eitherremote, they have really strong
parental leave or benefits.
They have strong mental healthbenefits and have signaled in
some way that they supportparents and invest in parents.
And so I will highlight thoseroles and show those on a
regular basis.
Kelly Siebold (29:05):
Wonderful, and we will include everything that
Kelly just mentioned down belowin the show notes.
So just scroll down.
You'll be able to see everythingshe mentioned, connect with her.
It's brilliant to have someonecoach you along with making
those right decisions, makingyou feel confident.
And again, just even the tips ofleading with confidence and how
are you gonna plan for this.
Kelly, thank you so much fortalking with us walking our
(29:28):
moms.
Whether you're still pregnant oryou're already back to work, how
to do this.
Is there anything else you wouldwant our moms to know before we
end today?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (29:38):
Great question.
Just.
Again, wherever you are on yourpregnancy or parenthood journey,
congratulations on this human orhumans that you're bringing in.
And embrace that transformationfrom motherhood to motherhood.
It can be such an amazingexperience.
Also comes with potentialAnxiety, depression, different
(29:59):
things.
And so it's not always happy,but it is a huge transition and
so honor that as you journeythrough life.
Kelly Siebold (30:08):
Honor, that is a great way to end that.
So moms, thank you for joiningus this week.
We will see you next week.
Thanks.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (30:15):
Thank you, Kelly.
If you enjoyed this episode andfound it helpful, please be sure
to hit subscribe.
Leave us your feedback and giveus a five star review.
For even more support, visitus@wethrivepostpartum.com.
Slash podcast to sign up for ournewsletter and learn more about
(30:39):
our community.
Remember, you are not alone withsupport.
You can feel better together.
Let's thrive postpartum.
Welcome to Let's ThrivePostpartum, where we tackle
postpartum depression andanxiety.
Head on, guiding you back toyourself.
Join Kelly Seabold, founder ofThrive Postpartum and Ashley
Moore, a maternal mental healththerapist.
Through honesty and laughter, weshare expert advice and real
stories.
(00:25):
While not therapy or medicaladvice, you'll find education,
support and hope.
Welcome to the village.
Let's thrive postpartum.
Kelly Siebold (00:37):
Moms and welcome back to Let's Thrive Postpartum.
I'm Kelly and I'm really excitedto introduce to you all Kelly
Ling in our conversation today,this is one of those
conversations that we haven'ttalked about yet on the podcast,
but it affects.
Each and every one of us moms.
It is that return to work if youare going back to work.
(01:00):
And so I wanna preface thissaying this is not a go back to
work conversation.
This is not a shame one way orthe other, but so many of us
make the decision whether wewant to or not.
But how do you go back to workafter having a child and how do
you plan.
For it.
And Kelly is going to help walkus through everything you need
to know whether you're pregnantnow and you're planning, or if
(01:23):
you've already returned back towork, what you can really do to.
Honor that transformation.
So let me introduce y'all toKelly Ling.
She is the founder of Stork andSpark.
It's a coaching and communityplatform dedicated to supporting
career vicious expected parentswho are navigating career
growth.
(01:44):
An identity during pregnancyleave and return to work.
So before founding Stork andSpark, she spent 15 years in
corporate roles focused onstrategy, innovation, and
learning and development.
Along the way, like many of us,she had two kids who helped her
fuel her creative andentrepreneurial spirit.
(02:04):
Her mom hats include IVF, Vasa,Privia survivor.
The preemie and nicu, and now aboy mom of two under the age of
three.
Kelly, thank you so much forbeing here with us today.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (02:19):
Thank you Kelly for having me.
I'm so excited to have thisconversation and thank
Kelly Siebold (02:24):
I.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (02:24):
that introduction.
It's so good to be here.
Kelly Siebold (02:27):
So Kelly, I'd love before we jump in to set
the stage for all of our moms.
I think at least my perceptionof society, there really is kind
of stigma, good or bad.
Everybody has opinions aboutreturn to work, and so I think
for myself seeing stats, I.
About return to work has kind ofhelped me frame my own kind of
perception.
(02:47):
And so I'd love to share a fewthings with all of you right now
in the US according to stats,the average maternity leave is
about.
10 weeks and 55% of moms returnright after having a baby.
But that number increasesexponentially with almost 70% of
moms being back in the workforceby the time that their child is
(03:08):
five.
And there's been a lot ofstudies of benefits if you're
returning to work.
So if you feel guilty, don't,there's lots of great benefits.
So I found a research paper thatwas drafted by Beth Lewis and
the team at the University ofMinnesota.
And their research showed thatmothers who worked outside of
the home had fewer postpartumdepression symptoms at seven
(03:31):
months than mothers who werenot, and those proactive
benefits were regardless if thatmother was full-time or
part-time.
And then there's even long-termeffects on the baby.
So another research study that Ifound from Harvard Business
School said that moms whoworked, their daughters made 23%
more money in their lifetimethan daughters of mothers who
(03:53):
did not work.
So there's impacts for your babyand there's the personal ones.
For me, it really did help myidentity after having postpartum
depression.
Literally getting back andmaking myself put on clothes and
be in front of a Zoom call justhelped me have social
interaction and talk with otherparents.
So wanted to kind of set thatstage of it can be beneficial.
(04:15):
There's some great points togoing back, especially if you're
struggling with depression.
It's been proven to help.
So, Kelly, just my 2 cents.
Before we kind of jump into howto do this correctly, so let's
talk.
I love to bring in yourexperience and your expertise to
talk to us about how do you talkabout pregnancy in the
(04:36):
workplace.
Let's say you're a mom andyou're pregnant right now.
What do you do?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (04:42):
Yeah.
What, what do you do?
There's so, there's so many Itto get started.
Before I jump into answeringthat question, I just, I love
the context that you said.
I wanna shout out to my ownmother who was a working mother
and probably helped me make that23% higher salary because she
was working and she was also asoftware engineer.
So up against stereotypes anddifferent things in her day.
(05:04):
So super grateful for that.
And then the other piece about,going back to work, whatever
that looks like for you, whetherit's paid Not, volunteer,
part-time, full-time there's,there's so much of identity that
is wrapped into a career, beforehaving kids.
And so if you go from like your,you know, 80% of your identity
being career, then moving intoparents and not having that
(05:26):
identity come back other thanparent identity that.
Can really kind of get you stuckin a loop or contribute to
postpartum mood disorders versuskind of getting out of that.
And so you so much for, forsharing that I think it's really
important.
And so then the question is,well, how do you do it?
Right?
no right way.
(05:46):
Right?
But Some best practices.
We'll talk about what, what doeswork or things to keep in mind
as we go from the pregnancyleave and return to work
journey.
Kelly Siebold (05:57):
sounds great.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Stor (05:58):
You asked about like, how do you
start with sharing the news?
And, and to me this is the, thisis when thinking about return to
work, the best place to start iswhen and how you share the news
at work.
Or if you're at the part offamily planning or fertility
planning, you're alreadythinking about how this impacts
your career.
Awesome.
But let's say you like found outyou were pregnant.
About like a week ago, andyou're excited, you shared the
(06:20):
news with your partner and somefamily, but you haven't told
Brooke yet.
And so how do you do that?
How does that go?
And so my push is one is you,when you share the news, share
it with confidence.
I am so excited that I ampregnant and going to have this
baby and extend my family.
This has been part of my plansor maybe it wasn't part of my
plans, but I'm excited for itand there's gonna be changes and
(06:42):
it's going to be great.
So start off sharing the newswith excitement and confidence
that this is happening to you,rather than, what oftentimes
happens is a sheepish, like, bythe way.
Manager like, I'm pregnant,don't worry, it won't impact my
work.
Don't worry.
Like I'll have a leap.
Don't worry, pregnant versus I'mso excited I'm pregnant.
(07:03):
And so my push is focus on that.
I'm excited I'm pregnant.
And get your manager and team onboard'cause you want'em excited
for you too.
You also don't want them to kindof worry about, okay, what is
the gap, the coverage plan, soon and so forth.
So celebrate with confidence andThat's your starting point of
even again, thinking about goingback to work, you're starting
off honoring your transformationinto parenthood by starting with
(07:25):
confidence.
You're honoring that baby thatyou're gonna have and you're
setting the tone at work oflike, Hey, this is an awesome
thing that is happening for allof us.
So that's
Kelly Siebold (07:34):
I love that
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (07:35):
Yeah.
Good.
Kelly Siebold (07:36):
because I have seen friends myself.
You wanna go up and you're like,how do I minimize this for my
employer?
How do I say, don't worry.
You're not really saying I'msorry, but you are upfront
trying to make it easier forthem versus saying, I'm so
excited.
This is amazing news.
Now let's figure out how to doit.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (07:55):
Yes.
Kelly Siebold (07:55):
see when you say it out loud that there is
definitely a different deliverytone and getting them excited
for you could be key to that.
Do you then if you say it,you're confident and you're real
saying, I'm, I'm excited this ishappening.
I'm gonna have a child.
When do you bring up, now whatdo we do?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (08:11):
Yeah,
Kelly Siebold (08:11):
How do you help them pray for it.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (08:13):
soon thereafter?
Let's talk about the timing ofwhen to bring this up.
Before I get there, so I'mtalking to you as a mom, as a
parent, as the pregnant person,or maybe as an expectant father,
if you're excited to share thenews.
One quick note for managers.
When you get this news, startwith congrats.
It's an easy thing to forget.
Think about it as like from whatyou would wanna hear from a
friend or from a family member,or when someone shares that news
(08:35):
with you, start with congrats.
And so you can help that, thattone by saying like, Hey, this
is awesome.
I'm happy for you.
Rather than, what is easy to getinto is that same.
mindset of like, oh my gosh,like how you're gonna go out on
leave?
How am I gonna fill those gaps?
And so on and so forth.
So again, the advice there,start with congrats if you're
the manager and if you're theperson, start with how excited
(08:55):
you are and when do you sharethe news.
So again, what might make iteasier for you and your manager
and your organization, if thatis top of mind, is sharing it as
early as.
you can, conventional Is waitingfor after the first trimester.
You wanna make sure the baby isviable.
You wanna make sure kind ofhealth conditions are in check.
And again, you don't wannadisrupt work.
(09:17):
And so my push here is theearlier you share, one, the more
in control of the narrative youhave, and again, narrative being
how excited you are and thenmoving into, okay, so let's talk
about leave coverage planning.
We have, if you share at twomonths, we have eight months, 8,
7, 7 months to figure this out.
That's a long time.
(09:38):
That's more than half a year,and so suddenly it's easy to be
excited for you because I knowwe have a long time to figure
out what this pathway must.
Like, versus like, Hey, I'm sixmonths pregnant, or I'm seven
months pregnant, I'm gonna goout in about two weeks.
Let's figure out this plan,which is anxiety inducing for
both sides.
So my push is to share early.
It is uncomfortable, it'sunconventional but it gives you
(10:00):
the power, the power of thenarrative is in your side.
And.
Other parts of this too is Iwork a lot with career ambitious
moms.
They're on promotion track,right?
They need to get their review inright before the performance
cycle.
'cause going out is gonna impactthat.
and so there's all these thingsthat might be top of mind.
earlier you share, the more timeyou have to.
(10:24):
Build out what that pathwaymight look for you so that when
you come back, you're still onpromotion track or you actually
come back to a promotion, whichI've talked to several folks
where that is the actual outcomethe other thing here is like it
morning sickness is very real.
So morning, sickness, fatigue,all these physical things that
happened to you in that firsttrimester.
When society tells you, Hey,keep it a secret, don't tell
(10:46):
that.
Sucks, right?
Three months, you're likethrowing up in trash cans,
you're sweating, you have thatglo, whatever it is, and you're
trying, maybe you're
Kelly Siebold (10:55):
Yeah.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ S (10:56):
again, you're like at performance
review cycle and people aregiving you performance and you
might not feel your best andyou're carrying this mental load
of, Hey, I'm, I'm pregnant andI'm excited, but I can't tell
anybody.
Or like, Hey, I'm pregnant and Ifeel sick as a dog and I can't
tell anybody.
so part of the push also toshare early is to give context
for like maybe why you're notshowing up a hundred percent,
why you're tired, why thosedoctor's appointments are coming
(11:18):
up.
Is it their business?
Not necessarily, but is it yourbusiness to share if you want
to?
Absolutely.
Right.
And so again, this is, it'sabout you controlling the
narrative, you controlling thisstory as you move into your
pregnancy.
Tell me a little bit morethough.
I
Kelly Siebold (11:31):
I love.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ S (11:32):
along.
What was, what was
Kelly Siebold (11:33):
I do.
So I'm just, I'm so intrigued bythis.
'cause I love the fact thatyou're also talking about career
ambitious women who are goingthrough this.
Because a lot of times, youknow, the stigma is you now need
to focus on motherhood and let'snot continue to focus on your
career and still saying you'reallowed to be an ambitious
career focused woman and you'reallowed to be a mom and you're
allowed to both.
So tell me a little bit more,when you're working with career
(11:55):
ambitious women who are goingthrough this phase, any advice
for any of them who arelistening?
That might be really relevantwhen they're trying to go after
that promotion or make surethey're not about to lose the
big deals that are coming downthe, the pipe or those steps,
you know, that leadership rolethat they've built.
How do you help them feel kindof confident in this space when
they have to say, I'm gonna stepaway for a while.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (12:17):
Yes.
So excellent question.
So now you've shared the news atlike two months.
So you have like the
Kelly Siebold (12:21):
Okay.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ (12:22):
runway, more than half a year.
That's a lot of time.
So there's two key things thatyou can do during this period.
One is if you're not alreadyhaving regular one-on-one
conversations with your manageror leader on your career scope
and goals, get those started.
And if you do have thoseregularly going on now,
integrate.
Well, what does leave look likeand what does it look like on
the return?
(12:43):
So what I'd say is if you don'talready have like monthly,
hopefully you have like weeklyor some kind of regular touch
base for general work, and youhave a section of time that's
very spoke focused on careerdevelopment.
So as you've shared the newsnow, you have several touch
points with your manager.
One is like, Hey, I've been onpromotion track.
I still wanna be on promotiontrack like That ambition isn't
going anywhere.
Please don't make assumptionsthat it might.
(13:03):
Because there are societyassumptions.
Hey, maybe they're gonna pause.
Maybe they're gonna step back.
Maybe they're not gonna comeback to work.
All of which is okay too, butyou want to control that
narrative.
You don't want someone to makethat assumption for you, so you
be a.
Front and clear like, Hey, I amstill here and excited and with
it.
So let's plan what my careertrajectory and pathway look like
(13:25):
while I'm pregnant and planningfor leave, and then what it
looks like when I come back.
So those are the careerconversations.
Then let's move into, okay, wellwhat does actual leave planning
look like?
So again, I push like, Hey,start, leave planning at three
or four months pregnant, right?
Kelly Siebold (13:39):
Okay.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (13:39):
have several months, and when you're
planning.
Include your partners, right?
Include like if you're clientfacing, at some point you're
gonna have to let your clientsknow.
Letting them know early alsogives them some peace of mind
that you're thinking ahead ofwhat their transition plan will
be.
If you're not client facing, butyou have a lot of like.
High level stakeholders in theorganization, sharing early with
(14:00):
them also, and inviting theminto your planning.
and then the other part that Ilove is if you're career
ambitious, you probably havecareer ambitious people on your
team.
As a people manager, for thestep up opportunities that they
can step up in and to take workstreams off your hands.
So if you have, if you havesomething that you're working on
and you've been like partneringwith the junior associates and
(14:22):
you have confidence that theycan likely lead it in your
absence, delegate it to them.
Early.
Right.
Give them two or three months tooperate it.
So you can advise coach andwatch them do it.
Give it to them while you'reout.
And best part, when you comeback, keep it with them.
Don't take it back.
Let them, grow with it and giveyourself that space to step into
that larger scope role that youare seeking.
(14:43):
so that's, kind of how when Italk about coverage planning, to
me it's about elevating.
Your team.
So your direct reports, it'selevating your partners showing
them that you have coverage orinviting them to help provide
that coverage.
It's elevating your managerbecause you're making their life
really easy by saying, Hey, Igot this covered.
So that they can focus on beingyour sponsor in those
(15:04):
conversations aroundperformance, calibration, et
cetera.
And the earlier, again, that youshare, if there's budget to tap
into for a contractor to take onsome of your work, if you know
you have to like find aninterview and there's a lead
time there too.
And so if that's an option foryou, which is should be, I wish
it was more you have time tobring in that person and train
(15:24):
them.
So then the side note there.
Side note to like organizationsor managers to the extent that
you have influence to havebudget for contractors, or I
even seen companies havebasically like SWAT teams that
go in and cover for people'sleaves.
All really great ways to helpplug or cover some of that work
while you're out.
(15:45):
And again, the earlier that youshare, the more time you have to
train to see operate, to thenfeel confident that things are
covered.
So that you can go on leave andnot stress about the work that
you've left behind.
Kelly Siebold (15:57):
I love that and I love that companies are, that
forward thinking to say, we needto have regular coverage
opportunities as we have moremoms go out.
Do you have any advice for thoseambitious women who have gotten.
Coverage.
They have the buy-in, they havethe replacement of worried well,
maybe there's not a need for mewhen I'm ready and I'm back.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (16:17):
Hmm.
That is interesting.
I, I, that is a, that can be afear, but I have always operated
and I try to work with people tooperate from the mindset of
like, your whole goal in any jobis to work yourself out of a job
so that you can take on bigger,bigger scope, bigger
responsibilities.
And so, I don't know if thatanswers that specific question.
(16:38):
'cause that, requires a bit of amindset shift, but.
To the, like, to the extent thatyou are, getting your role
covered almost fully andcompletely so that you can step
in either to a bigger scope oryou're designing what a new role
could look like for you, again,with your manager and you're
basically helping fill yourcurrent role while you're
planning leave and on leave sothat you can come back into a
(17:00):
new role.
way actually that this can alsohelp is maybe you're in a people
manager role and You do want todo a little bit of a step back
or you wanna do a pause or aslow down or even like move to
ic, individual contributor typerole.
This is another way to move intothose roles that you want,
because that might be better foryou on the other side of leave
and proactively plan for thecoverage, proactively plan for
(17:24):
your current scope.
so it doesn't have Be biggerscope or or larger role.
It can just be what is it thatyou need next, and then how do
you plan now?
Kelly Siebold (17:34):
And that's it.
It's looking at what do I thinkI'm gonna want?
Obviously you have a child andthat plan may shift, right?
A lot of things happen.
Perspectives change, but whatwould be the perfect outcome,
and how do you kind of setyourself up for success when you
do come back?
How do you make it somethingthat's really advantageous to
what you want that also worksfor your employer?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ S (17:53):
That's exactly right.
And so I think the best practicethere is doing that proactive
planning, that introspection ofwhat is it that you want on the
other side, you've always wantedto grow.
Is this the same way that youwanna grow or do you wanna grow
in a different way?
I.
those conversations with yourmanager so that you can plan for
it.
And you're right, things stillmight change when you go out on
leave.
Things change when you have thatbaby, right?
(18:14):
And you feel different andthings happen happening to your
brain.
You are changing, and so yourpriorities may shift as well.
And so the proactive planning isimportant and also be prepared
for you to change your mind orhave some differences.
But maintaining that line ofcommunication and constant
introspection of what is it thatyou want will help you.
(18:34):
that and communicate your needsthere.
That's the, guidance.
Kelly Siebold (18:39):
I love it.
So that is, if you're pregnantnow, right Kelly?
How do you go through, how doyou talk about it?
How do you plan for it?
What about our moms who arelistening that have maybe
already had a child, they'vemaybe gone back to work.
How do you plan or kind ofimplement any of this if you are
already had your child andyou're returning to work?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (18:58):
Yes.
Yes, yes.
So you've already had youreither returning or you've
recently returned.
So I talk about the pre-babytime as that's your proactive
planning and strategy session.
When you're going back to workor when you're back at work.
That's the time both toimplement and also to level up
your advocacy, and level up.
Leading with confidence.
So we talked about at the verybeginning, you share the news of
(19:20):
having a baby with confidence.
Well, now it's, hey, you'reconfident, you, you transformed
into a parent, right?
You are not the same person thatyou were before you went out.
You are not, things are notgonna necessarily go back to how
they were before.
Your plate is fuller.
You may have shiftingpriorities, like keeping a human
alive is a whole new skill thatyou're developing.
(19:41):
And, throughout this time,you've also.
Tweak certain skills that aremanagement level skills, right?
So we're talking prioritization,delegation, releasing control,
asking for help.
Some of these things that comewith leadership and management,
and maybe you were great at thembefore, many of us are not,
right?
And so you're thrown into havinga baby.
And then you come out the otherside and you're actually not
(20:01):
pretty good at it.
So when you come back to work,there is this honoring the
transformation of moving into.
Parenthood, motherhood or Ithink the term is called mires
essence, which is the corollaryto adolescence, right?
So mires essence becoming amother, which again is, is not
just like a black or white,happens overnight.
It's this continuum of like, nowyou're a mother and you're gonna
(20:21):
go through life with newbornlife with a baby life, with a
toddler life, with littles pre,and so on and so forth.
And so it's
Kelly Siebold (20:28):
Yeah.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ S (20:29):
that's not gonna change.
So not gonna go back to who youwere before.
But you have this foresight ofthese changes that are
happening.
So how do you honor them?
How do you highlight how you'vechanged and how that's gonna
show up in the workplace in apositive way?
Again, confidently talk aboutparenthood, being unapologetic.
When we talk about like, Hey,I'm taking my pump breaks.
(20:50):
I need to go to the room and,and pump milk.
Hey, my kid needs to be pickedup from daycare.
I cannot be late and leave mychild.
And holding these boundariesthat maybe in the past you were
a little bit more flexible on,you were okay going late on
meetings, different things.
Now you're in this world ofholding those boundaries because
there are, I.
Higher stakes.
So it's holding the boundaries,being your advocate.
(21:11):
And all of this is showingreally strong leadership to
those in the rest of yourorganization who are seeing you
hold those boundaries who areseeing you be serious about it.
And it is a positive signal toother parents or those in
situations where there's lessflexibility and they're seeing
someone hold them and stick tothem.
But the piece I'll share hereis, you know your needs best
(21:34):
like when you're pregnant,coming back, if you're working
with other parents, everyone'ssituations are so unique.
And so while there might beempathy, there's not enough to
understand what it is it thatyou specifically need.
So you need to be the one tocommunicate what is it that you
need, and hold those boundariesthat people understand again,
(21:54):
what it is that you need and.
If they see you holdingboundaries, they'll hold them
too.
If they see you slip, go, okay,well maybe they're okay taking a
meeting during her pump break.
Maybe she's okay waiting five to10 extra minutes to go pick up
her kid.
So you gotta be your advocate,hold your boundaries, and others
will do it.
Kelly Siebold (22:12):
And I think that's a great point that they
will hold it if you hold it.
I also, when we were having ourchild, I had another pregnant
coworker and she directlyreported to me and I wanted to
make sure that I did everythingthat I wanted her to.
Do.
So I took time off.
I did what I needed to.
I held boundaries because Iwanted her to know that it was
acceptable for her to do it.
And as a manager, that was partof my role to make it anybody
(22:33):
who was below me to know youwere safe as well to do it
right.
How do you also set thatstandard for other people in
your organization if you're atthat level so that other moms
know this is safe, this isacceptable.
She's not working 24 hours a dayanymore.
I don't have to either.
Right.
There's this transformation thathappens.
Be a role model.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (22:52):
That is exactly right.
Thank you for being that rolemodel when we were in that
situation because it's soimportant to see what others are
doing.
I think back to my experience,so much of how I navigated was
asking moms, asking the moms mycoworkers ahead of time, like,
Hey, what to prepare for?
How did you leave?
How did you come back?
I think one of the best advice Igot was, are gonna be different
(23:12):
when you come back and yourstandards might be different.
Your quality standards of yourwork might be different.
And so just.
Hearing that and then processingthat and then being okay with
that on the other side wasreally helpful to then realize
when I was like, oh, like Imight have stayed up all night
working on that.
I'm not gonna do that this timebecause I don't need to or I
shouldn't.
Was really helpful.
Kelly Siebold (23:34):
Yes, and I think you do, as you mentioned before,
you gain all these new skills oryou refine them.
Being a new parent,
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (23:39):
Yeah.
Kelly Siebold (23:40):
my ability to time manage and prioritize went
through the roof.
So what may have taken me longerat work pre-child was much more
streamlined after child.
'cause I had other things I hadto get to that needed to get
done.
So it kind of came with anadditional superpower in that
same realm of how do you makethis work better?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (23:58):
yes, yes, yes and yes.
Kelly Siebold (24:01):
Kelly, I would love your thoughts on this, and
I know this might not be yourexact area, but Right.
Coming back to work, I hadpostpartum depression.
I had anxiety.
I had intrusive thoughts.
I had all the stuff, and I wasin a C-suite at that point and
did not talk to my.
Leader about, here's what'shappening.
One, because I felt like I couldcontrol it, two, worked, helped
me, right?
(24:22):
Helped me have a little sense ofwho I was to find myself again.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (24:24):
Yeah.
Kelly Siebold (24:25):
I did talk to my coworker, I was very upfront,
like, I might need someadditional support in this area.
If you see me acting weird,don't be worried.
Here's why.
Do you have recommendations formoms who might be struggling
coming back, who are ambitiouswomen?
I don't know that I did the bestthing at all, but do you have
any advice of things they shouldor shouldn't do or maybe each
(24:45):
situation is unique?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (24:47):
Well, I definitely think each
situation is unique.
I think
Kelly Siebold (24:50):
Yeah.
Kelly Ling | Founder (24:50):
important to take postpartum period
seriously.
And you know, as a mom, you'regonna do a whole bunch of checks
with your doctor and differentthings, and they're gonna assess
whether, maybe, whether or notyou have it.
The checklists seem a little bitweird or odd though, so it
doesn't necessarily feelauthentic.
And so again for me, I.
I, my situation, I don't think Ihad it, but I didn't know if I
(25:12):
did or not, didn't because I wasso afraid that I was going to
have it and I didn't know whatit was gonna feel like.
And I hadn't had depression inthe past.
My concern or anxiety stemaround like, do I have it or
not?
Like how am I gonna know?
So one thing that really helpedwas talking with my doctor about
it.
For my first, it was a bit moreof a traumatic experience.
I VAs prev survivor.
I was in the hospital for twomonths.
My son was born at 34 weeks.
(25:34):
He was a preemie.
He was in the NICU for six.
Weeks.
So it was a deal all ripe forpotential postpartum depression,
but I still didn't know if I hadit or not.
so my doctor had me talk to atherapist to work through is
this something that you need ornot?
And at the end she kind of saidthis isn't what you need right,
right now.
And that actually made me feelreally good because I was like,
okay, I didn't know, but you asan expert are telling me this is
(25:57):
not something that I need.
But where I found.
Solace or where I found what Ineeded was actually in Facebook
communities.
So I did need community.
It was just not necessarily theone-on-one expert way.
So what really helped me is Ijoined NICU Facebook groups.
I joined Za Previa survivorgroups.
I joined extended breastfeedingor like was like only pumping
(26:21):
'cause I was only pumping forthe beginning for my first
journey.
Kelly Siebold (26:24):
Okay.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (26:24):
were all these like, super specific
experiences I was having.
And then I could go in and be alittle bit of a lurker and then
every now and then, like put myown question in, but really just
feel surrounded by people whoare going through similar
experience and learning fromthem.
That's what I needed.
But again, I think everyone isunique, so I would say take it
seriously.
I think regardless of where youare, community.
(26:44):
It is really, really helpful.
However you build that andwhether it's local in person,
whether it's online, and whetheryou're also seeking expert
resources because you aresuffering from a disorder and
need additional help look intoit and take it seriously.
Kelly Siebold (27:00):
I love that advice.
And so moms, if you're trying tofind your group thrive, we're
opening back up soon.
Feel free to come learn aboutour virtual community, to meet
other moms.
And so Kelly, I'd love to knowif you would also tell us about
what you are doing with Storkand Spark and how you are
helping moms go through thisambitious career change.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ Sto (27:19):
Yes.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
I'll tell you now, but thatmight be different.
When folks listen, things areconstantly evolving and my
company itself is only abouthalf a year old.
Two primary ways I'm workingdirectly with moms.
One is I have a cohort of folkswho are in a similar season.
So you're either pregnant onleave or returning.
You're in that.
The career ambitious mindset,and we meet together six times
(27:40):
over a course of three months.
So it's not your whole journey,but it's a good subsection.
And you're meeting other moms,building that community, and we
have some one-on-one coachingsessions.
So I'm working with you on yourspecific goals and the
one-on-one sessions, and I'mbringing community together
through this coaching cohort.
I'm also partnering withorganizations, so their parents,
ERGs or different things tobring them, a speech or a
(28:01):
webinar on how to grow yourcareer while pregnant or on
leave.
And then moving into partnershipprograms, either like a
coaching, coaching program orwhat I would really love to do
is help organizations buildreturnships.
So we talked so much aboutthriving postpartum and coming
back into the workforce, and theworkforce is not set up for
people to come back to after along career break.
And yet there's.
Such exceptional talent outthere, right?
(28:23):
Like you learn so much being aparent, you're so agile.
You were, you have so muchexperience from before.
So how do we make that a littlebit easier and build the
infrastructure?
Those are some of the thingsthat I am doing today.
Also offer some one-on-onecoaching and different things,
but it will continue to evolve.
And I offer like a ton of freeadvice on LinkedIn.
I have a newsletter that I wouldlove for you all to join with a
(28:43):
lot of tips, information, and Ipost.
Open roles that are parentfriendly.
I've decided what parentfriendly means.
For the most part, it's eitherremote, they have really strong
parental leave or benefits.
They have strong mental healthbenefits and have signaled in
some way that they supportparents and invest in parents.
And so I will highlight thoseroles and show those on a
regular basis.
Kelly Siebold (29:05):
Wonderful, and we will include everything that
Kelly just mentioned down belowin the show notes.
So just scroll down.
You'll be able to see everythingshe mentioned, connect with her.
It's brilliant to have someonecoach you along with making
those right decisions, makingyou feel confident.
And again, just even the tips ofleading with confidence and how
are you gonna plan for this.
Kelly, thank you so much fortalking with us walking our
(29:28):
moms.
Whether you're still pregnant oryou're already back to work, how
to do this.
Is there anything else you wouldwant our moms to know before we
end today?
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (29:38):
Great question.
Just.
Again, wherever you are on yourpregnancy or parenthood journey,
congratulations on this human orhumans that you're bringing in.
And embrace that transformationfrom motherhood to motherhood.
It can be such an amazingexperience.
Also comes with potentialAnxiety, depression, different
(29:59):
things.
And so it's not always happy,but it is a huge transition and
so honor that as you journeythrough life.
Kelly Siebold (30:08):
Honor, that is a great way to end that.
So moms, thank you for joiningus this week.
We will see you next week.
Thanks.
Kelly Ling | Founder @ St (30:15):
Thank you, Kelly.
If you enjoyed this episode andfound it helpful, please be sure
to hit subscribe.
Leave us your feedback and giveus a five star review.
For even more support, visitus@wethrivepostpartum.com.
Slash podcast to sign up for ournewsletter and learn more about
(30:39):
our community.
Remember, you are not alone withsupport.
You can feel better together.
Let's thrive postpartum.
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