Having a baby can shift everything, including your closest friendships.
In this week’s episode of Let’s Thrive Postpartum, host Kelly Siebold sits down with licensed therapist and best friend Lindsay Carter of LifeShift Therapy to talk about what happens when friendship feels different after having a child. Together, they explore how postpartum depression, identity changes, and emotional overwhelm can create distance between friends, and what it really takes to heal that disconnection.
You’ll learn:
• Why friendships often feel strained after baby.
• What the child-free friend may be experiencing too.
• How to name and express what you need in this new season.
• Tools to repair disconnection and rebuild closeness.
• How to decide who belongs in your village right now.
Whether you’re a mom missing your old connection or you're the friend who is unsure of how to show up, this episode offers honesty, insight, and hope. Listen in for a conversation that’s real, supportive, and full of love.
Learn more about LifeShift Therapy at lifeshifttherapy.com
Support is just one click away - check out these additional resources designed to support your postpartum mental health:
- Download our free Postpartum Mental Health Plan https://wethrivepostpartum.com/postpartum-plan/
- Learn more about Thrive Postpartum’s virtual support for pregnant and postpartum moms, including virtual support groups, education, expert-led events, and a supportive community of moms who understand your journey https://wethrivepostpartum.com/join
- Email us with a question or postpartum topic you want us to discuss at podcast@wethrivepostpartum.com
- Hit subscribe to never miss an episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to Let's ThrivePostpartum, where we tackle
postpartum depression andanxiety.
Head on, guiding you back toyourself.
Join Kelly Seabold, founder ofThrive Postpartum and Ashley
Moore, a maternal mental healththerapist.
Through honesty and laughter, weshare expert advice and real
stories.
(00:25):
While not therapy or medicaladvice, you'll find education,
support and hope.
Welcome to the village.
Let's thrive postpartum.
Kelly Siebold (00:36):
Hi, and welcome back to Let's Thrive Postpartum.
I'm Kelly, and today we're gonnatalk about something not a lot
of people get prepared for afterhaving a baby, and that's.
Impacts to friendships.
So if you're struggling afterhaving a child, whether it's
depression, anxiety, or justthat overwhelm that never seems
to go away, changes in yourfriendship can feel even more
(01:00):
intense.
And often this is that time whenyou need those relationships the
most.
Maybe you feel like a friend haspulled away.
Maybe you have, or maybe itfeels hard to connect in that
same way or explain to yourfriend what you need.
Or maybe you're just simplygrieving that this friendship
used to feel effortless and nowit feels hard.
(01:20):
So I want you to know you're notalone.
It's just not you.
And this season is really hardfor both sides of the
friendship.
So today I'm really, reallyexcited to talk to one of my
favorite people in the world.
My best friend Lindsay Carter.
She is a licensed mental healththerapist in Asheville, North
Carolina, and she has a virtualpractice life shift therapy
(01:42):
where she helps adults heal fromcomplex trauma, especially in
major life transition likepostpartum.
She's also someone who haspersonally walked alongside of
me, both personally andprofessionally as we navigated
how our friendship reallychanged postpartum, which makes
this episode feel so honest andkind of vulnerable for me.
(02:03):
But I want us to get into a fewthings.
We're gonna talk about whyrelationships can feel strained
and distance after a baby.
What's really behind that grief,guilt, or silence.
How becoming a mom shifts youridentity.
What the non-parent friend mightbe feeling and how to really
repair and reconnect from aplace of honesty.
(02:24):
So if you are feeling that acheof disconnection with one of
your friends, or if you're thefriend who's really wanting to
know how to better support thatperson that you love, this is a
great conversation for you.
So with that, thank you forsaying yes and coming onto the
podcast.
Lindsay, how are you doingtoday?
Lindsay (02:42):
I am so good.
Kelly Siebold (02:43):
I'm so glad to have you here.
This is one of thoseconversations I've been wanting
to have because you and I havebeen through it, and I think
getting to talk through impactsof having a baby on friendships
is such a needed conversation.
Lindsay (02:56):
yeah, and I feel like we've had so many versions of
this conversation and each one.
Has been so different becausethere's just so much depth to it
and it is so vulnerable and it'sso important and so, yeah,
there's a part of me that'slike, oh God, there's so much to
talk about here and like we'rebarely gonna scratch the
(03:18):
surface.
So just knowing that.
Kelly Siebold (03:20):
We are, but I think we can scratch the surface
in a couple of places because aswe've gone through this so much
stuff comes up.
So hitting the highlights ofwhat somebody who feels this is
going through.
I love your perspective ofhere's what the friend is going
through.
Right?
'cause a lot of times you'rethinking about your own
experience and I love giving ourmom listeners.
(03:41):
The view of it's on both sides.
So can we start off by talkingabout why relationships can
really feel so strained anddifferent and distant after
having a baby?
Lindsay (03:54):
Yeah.
and I think like it's soimportant
Kelly Siebold (03:57):
I.
Lindsay (03:57):
the framework by zooming way out and just
acknowledging that the systemconditioned us.
So many systems have conditionedfriendships to be really
difficult in adulthood, period.
And then you add in postpartumand those different life.
Priorities and it makes it evenmore difficult, right?
(04:19):
We live in a veryindividualistic culture, which
means like we, and I know youtalk about this all the time,
there's like this elusivevillage that never shows up and
there's this expectation thatmom's just like, go hide away
for a while, and it's like thislike kind of vacation and pop
back up and everything's fine.
And so that makes kind of thatconnection really hard.
(04:42):
In the first place.
on top of that, like how thingshave changed, like women are
having babies at different ages,so different stages of life.
You're not doing it together atthe same time.
And then a lot of women arechoosing not to have children at
all, which is the dynamic we'vefound ourselves in and I think
(05:04):
that's where there can be, Forthe subject we're talking about,
right?
Or like there can be that, thatdisconnect or a fear of
disconnect when two friends'priorities and lifestyles have
just gone in such drasticallydifferent directions and they
don't quite know how to show upfor the other person.
Kelly Siebold (05:27):
It's true because when you and I first met, we've
worked at two differentcompanies together.
We were in our early twenties,and then we got to reconnect
again at a second company,probably late twenties maybe.
I was in my early thirties, andso we were non children.
Very different frame of life.
What we were doing at the timewas very different than what we
(05:48):
are both doing now.
There's a lot of changes and Ithink you're right of just
saying it's not what you thinkit's gonna be as far as that
village isn't there.
We're not gonna do everythingtogether at the same time, and
it's hard and we can still befriends.
Lindsay (06:05):
Oh my God.
Yeah, and I think like whatyou're talking about is so
important that we anticipate allof that change.
that we can anticipate the griefthat comes with that change too.
And that comes on both sidesthat we're like, and I think
this is something I know we'vetalked about before, where the
mom friend might be announcingtheir pregnancy and there's so
(06:25):
much happiness and joy andexcitement the non-parent friend
is excited for that friend, butalso like, oh God, I'm losing
this person.
Right.
And then their grief might bekicking in at that stage without
the mom friend really knowingit.
I'm curious like how it feelsfor you, like where you think
moms kind of notice that shiftor experience that grief.
Kelly Siebold (06:49):
So I love that we're talking about grief and
friendship.
I mean, to start off with rightthere, because it's not
something I feel like we talkenough about because friendships
do change.
Just like you said, thatrelationship is gonna be
different.
You're gonna have less of thatperson I've been the non-parent
friend and the parent friend, Iremember friends having that, oh
gosh, this is changing, sadfeeling while also being so
(07:13):
happy for that person and myfriend who was having kids.
I don't think it hit me untilhaving a child.
I think the excitement and allthe prepping and planning and
getting to be there.
There was just so muchanticipation of a baby and a
lifestyle change.
I think the grief of, oh no,this friendship is different,
(07:36):
really started.
After having a child and, andwhat I mean by that is suddenly
I didn't have the autonomy to gosee you as much as I wanted to
do phone calls be there, likeall the stuff that was normal
part of Friendship Life for us,that all came to us sudden halt
because suddenly I was tied to achild 24 7.
(08:00):
And when you add in thedepression and anxiety, I didn't
even have the bandwidth to say,let me put her in the car and
drive to see you.
Like that wasn't a thing.
Lindsay (08:06):
Yeah,
Kelly Siebold (08:07):
It's a weird feeling.
Lindsay (08:08):
Yeah.
And It's so isolating, right?
Kelly Siebold (08:13):
Yes.
Lindsay (08:13):
way you're describing it.
'cause like, I didn't, don'tremember like, feel clued into
that from you.
Right.
And, and I didn't feel abandonedby you.
You had a baby.
Like, I understood that.
But I, and I look back and Ihave like this, I do have regret
for not showing up more orasking you how you felt about
(08:38):
those change.
'cause there is, and I thinkthis is common too for like the
child free friend where it'slike don't know what the mom
needs and we're, there's likethis idea of like, we just need
to allow space, like allow somuch space.
Right.
Kelly Siebold (08:55):
Yes.
Lindsay (08:55):
that was lonely for you.
Kelly Siebold (08:58):
It was and don't feel regret.
'cause I wouldn't have known howto say what I wanted had you
have asked.
Right.
But I think you're right.
I think we always say give momspace and then looking back, I.
To all of my mom friends that Iwas the non-parent friend.
I didn't know how to show up.
So when I did show up, it was,how is baby doing?
It was never, how are you doing?
(09:19):
Let's let me be here for you.
And so I think that is one oflike the constant conversations
I keep having with people is howdo you be there for mom and not
baby?
Right?
Because again, I didn't knowsociety taught me to be there
for a baby.
So I think that's just anotherone of those barriers to
connection is showing up.
Mom, I did not do that in myrelationships.
Lindsay (09:42):
But that also wasn't like expected of you.
Right?
I think that's important too,that we're
Kelly Siebold (09:48):
It.
Lindsay (09:48):
ourselves grace in this, that we're all kind of
conditioned to be like, yeah, weshow up in our friendships with
like things figured out.
And if you don't have it figuredout.
space from the friendship, and Ithink that's where it's like,
oh, we need to work harder tofacilitate that for ourselves
and for each other by not justcatching up with each other, not
(10:13):
just asking questions about thebaby, but like asking about each
other's felt experiences like.
What's it like to be a mom now?
What does it feel like to be amom and, and I, we don't have to
have the perfect questions,right?
It's really a practice of justbeing vulnerable enough to share
(10:35):
that we might not know how tosupport each other right now,
and saying like, I wanna knowhow you're doing and I don't
even know the right questions toask.
Kelly Siebold (10:46):
I think that is a perfect thing to say, right?
And I think it's the mom beinglike, I don't know how to
explain this, but I'm not good.
And giving kind of more of thathonest answer.
One of our guests at some pointsaid a brilliant thing to me
that was, if you ever ask a momhow she's doing and you
automatically get the fine orthe great that you just stop and
say, no, really, and just goquiet because that's an
(11:06):
automated response.
But there's probably more there.
And I love that tip just beinglike, because you don't know how
to ask, but really what's justgoing on?
Lindsay (11:15):
Yeah.
Kelly Siebold (11:16):
What are other comments we've talked about?
Like, I don't know how to ask.
There's kind of that disconnect.
We've both been through grief.
What other can be barriers inthis type of relationship that
mom should know about?
Lindsay (11:27):
I think from like, well, one thing that comes to
mind, I feel like need to kindof differentiate How, child free
women might identify theirexperience that, child free
typically is by choice andchildless typically isn't right.
If there's infertility issuesthere.
And so there might be somedistance from that friend
(11:51):
depending on they're processingtheir experience with having a
family.
Right.
I think that top of that,there's also that reciprocal,
pressure to know what to say andhow to fix things.
(12:12):
And so, I don't know if this isanswering your question exactly,
but like,
Kelly Siebold (12:17):
it is.
Lindsay (12:17):
it all comes back to like, okay, how do we connect
over these differences?
Right?
And so I think being able to.
Just witness each other.
Just be curious and just witnesseach other.
that's the foundation ofconnection and that's the
foundation of healing.
(12:39):
I often find too, I hear thisfrom clients a lot where new
moms.
Feel so good after they havejust a good solid sit down with
an old friend where they hearwhat is happening in their
friend's life too.
Right.
And think for the non friend,it's giving yourself permission
(13:00):
to tell your mom friend what'shappening in your life and not
to be afraid of overwhelming herwith that.
Right?
Because we're both benefitingfrom witnessing each other and
just from really deeply seeingone another.
Kelly Siebold (13:15):
Yes, and there is something about a little bit of
normalcy in that, right?
Getting to hear like thenormalcy of, here's your life
and tell me everything about it.
I wanna know everything you'redoing brings that sense of
everything in my life haschanged.
Thank you for keeping thisnormal and letting you still
have that experience.
There's something, at least forme, refreshing of that.
(13:36):
Like just deep down, you feel somuch better after having those
connection conversations.
Lindsay (13:42):
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Siebold (13:43):
How do we help a mom make this transition, work
on this friendship piece andreally help her stay connected
or find what she's needing froma friendship when all this
change is happening?
Lindsay (14:01):
Yeah, part of me is going back to the system thing
of I hate telling a mom to domore work for her healing,
right?
because ideally everyone shouldjust be showing up in this
stage, but Because it's not herfault, because it is the system
it is important that she takethe time to really reflect on
(14:22):
and maybe even restructure herbeliefs and expectations of
friendship.
and this is the time to reallyprioritize quality over
quantity.
so really reflecting on likewhat is her felt experience in
her friendships, who can sheinvite into this vulnerable
(14:43):
conversation and who does shewant to be part of her village,
part of her support system tojust.
Help her be witnessed, to justhelp her be seen and allow that
emotional support.
Ruby Warrington wrote thisbeautiful book called Women
(15:03):
Without Kids, and in it shetalks about how child free women
have to restructure their rolein the lives of.
who are mothers around them.
Right.
And there is this concept ofaloe parenting, Of aloe mothers,
which is essentially thiselusive village that shows up
and does a lot of the heavylifting and caregiving or what
(15:26):
should happen, right?
But often doesn't.
she talks about how the childfree friend can be an aloe
mother for the mother.
that our role is in nurturingthe mom, that it doesn't have to
be about the baby.
(15:46):
That it's about giving the momthe space to be a friend and not
a mom, to just be a grownupagain.
And so I think that goes back tohelping the mom reflect on like,
okay, who do I want to be my aowmothers in this process?
Yes.
Kelly Siebold (16:06):
I love what you said about quality over quantity
If you're struggling right nowin that new motherhood phase.
Who do you want?
There doesn't have to beeverybody.
They can still be your friends,but really focusing on that
quality, who are you reallygonna go through this with and
who is gonna help you get to theother side?
Lindsay (16:24):
Who do you feel safe enough to be a true mess around?
Kelly Siebold (16:30):
How do you
Lindsay (16:32):
I.
Kelly Siebold (16:33):
talk?
To your friend.
Let's say I'm the mom and we aregoing through this transition
and I don't feel like I'mshowing up enough for you, or I
don't know how to say, Hey, canyou help me?
'cause I don't know what I need.
How do you have some of thoseconversations?
I know you can't tell us that,but do you have any pointers to
start?
Lindsay (16:51):
I don't know if there's one right answer to your
question, but hearing you askthat, I immediately am going
back to what you asked me once.
it was beautiful and it was at atime when I was processing a lot
in my life, you just verydirectly and calmly asked me how
(17:13):
can I be a good friend to younow?
And I just remember thatstopping me in my tracks, Kelly,
being like, that's such anobvious question and that's such
a Good question.
and I'm like, why haven't Iasked her this question?
And so I think to go back toyour question Having the mom
(17:37):
start asking herself that,right, of like, can this person
be a good friend to me?
And that that's not to say,okay, now come up with a list of
demands and bring it to yourfriend.
But it helps you clarify wait,what is it that I'm missing
right now?
What is it that I'm needing thatyou can formulate What is it
(17:58):
you're asking for?
What is it that you want to talkabout?
And I think that those are kindof the stepping stones there
and, I feel like those kinds ofquestions and that question in
particular has turned out to besuch an anchor in our
friendship, right?
Where it's like now we ask eachother that question or a version
of that question the time.
Kelly Siebold (18:20):
Yes, because we talk in general in therapy and
in life you ask that to yourpartner, right?
You ask your husband or yourspouse or your partner all the
time, like what do you need?
And that answer changes.
And I think when we brought itinto you and I asking it, it
made, showing up and being therethe way this person needs it, so
much easier'cause you're notguessing as much.
And so processing, I think yougoing back and saying.
(18:43):
Figuring out what you needfirst, because maybe I'm
grieving because I don't get asmuch quality time,
Lindsay (18:48):
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Siebold (18:48):
maybe I feel lonely for other reasons, and
kind of figuring out what thatpiece is makes it easier to say,
Hey, can we have a 30 minutezoom today?
Or whatever it could be to startsaying, this is the piece I'm
missing.
Help me with this piece.
Lindsay (19:07):
Yeah.
Really it brings to the surface,it really kind of crystallizes
the commitment that you have inthat friendship, right?
Of like, Hey, because we're ableto have this conversation, it
shows that like we prioritizeeach other enough to be flexible
for each other, to like want tobend like what we're able to
(19:29):
give so that we both feelsupported.
Kelly Siebold (19:33):
Yes, and I wanna offer one more thing that's
slightly a tangent to this, butkind of relates.
we had a guest at the verybeginning of our podcast.
She goes by the labor mama andshe had a great tip that I feel
like I keep sharing all the timebecause if you don't know if
you're going to strugglementally after childbirth,
having someone, a friend thatyou have a conversation with
(19:54):
while you're pregnant or rightafter and say.
Lindsay, can you tell ifsomething's happening to me?
Can you be the person thatwatches me and just say, you
don't act like yourself and tellme.
I won't know how to ask, but canyou tell me?
And I will take it with a thankyou and a notice that it's
coming from a good place.
And so proactively, you'resetting that safety up.
(20:16):
If somebody's living in thehousehold with you, it's much
easier for them to be in it too.
But to say you have permissionto tell me that I'm not okay, I
need help.
So I think even just when you'rehaving these conversations with
your friend, even asking somestuff up front, can you tell if
I'm doing bad?
Will you tell me?
'cause I may not know.
Lindsay (20:34):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think, the child freefriend should also be, I don't
mean to say should, but liketelling.
The mom friend that if I am notshowing up in a way that is
working for you and that youneed, I hope you feel safe
enough to tell me that,
Kelly Siebold (20:55):
communication.
It's so key and also can be sohard So that's a lot from the
mom side, right?
A lot of us going through thisprobably feel this way, but I
think it's really just asimportant to see how that
relationship and that change isimpacting your friend and the
child free friend.
Okay, so Lindsay, I wanna askanother question.
(21:16):
If two friends are going throughkind of this disconnect, I've
realized here might be what Ineed or what you need, how do
you talk about building thatconnection, backer, repairing if
your feelings are hurt, or howdo you bridge that gap to get
back to where that connectionshould be?
Lindsay (21:34):
I think first, just anticipating those kind of
ruptures to happen, right?
Not even necessarily ruptures,just periods of disconnection,
because this is a majortransition.
Things are going to change.
Your dynamic is naturally goingto change.
You're gonna miss each othersometimes, and you're both
adjusting to this change.
(21:58):
So.
think it's really helpful justto anticipate and know that
there are gonna be maybe somemissteps or miscommunication
there, and that's okay.
And when that does happen,noticing how that shows up in
you, what does that mean you'refeeling, and again, what does
(22:18):
that mean that you're missing?
Kelly Siebold (22:21):
Yeah.
Lindsay (22:21):
in the relationship so that you can kind of yourself in
the love for that person that'screating that feeling.
Right.
And that can help you then movetoward communicating from a
place of like, Hey, I miss youand, and this is like what I'm
hoping we can talk about that'sdifferent if there's, A real
(22:45):
rupture where something was saidor done that was hurtful, that
that
Kelly Siebold (22:50):
Okay.
Lindsay (22:50):
to be more directly.
But it's the same thing, right?
Evaluating how is thisrelationship important to me and
what do I want out of thisconversation?
If it's repair, then it is soimportant that we come into that
conversation with that intentionof repair and from that place of
(23:12):
love versus a place of maybeaccusation.
Kelly Siebold (23:17):
I love that.
And so going back and saying,not that I'm mad at you because
you haven't spent time with me.
Looking at the same thing ofsaying, okay, what I'm doing is
missing the time and theconnection that we have and
saying, I miss you.
When can we get together samefeeling, but saying, here's the
need and coming at it with loveand respect, and how do I fix
(23:38):
this to get what I need versushow dare you not spend time with
me?
Two very different ways to havethat conversation.
Lindsay (23:46):
Well, and it's also speaking to your felt
experience, right?
Which also invites the otherperson to talk about their felt
experience.
hopefully from a less defensivepoint of view so that there's a
higher likelihood of now you canunderstand where each other are
coming from.
And it's like the other personprobably wasn't trying to hurt
(24:09):
you, right?
And they wanna know how it isthat their behavior impacted you
and led to you feeling hurt sothat you can collaborate on a
realistic way for both of you tofeel supported.
But I also wanna stress that isreally important for both people
to be honest about whether ornot they can give what the other
(24:29):
person might be asking for.
and that might go back to themom friend really on how she
wants her village to look.
Right?
there might be some child freefriends who.
Our uncomfortable being aroundkids, and those friends might
(24:51):
not be in, your circle as much,right?
But is there value for thatfriendship in other ways and
vice versa, You might havefriends who are all for the
caregiving and want to doubt onthe baby and, are maybe not so
much into the one-on-one time.
and so really being open to whatyour friends Want to give
(25:13):
because when they're supportingyou from that really authentic
place, it's gonna feel better.
You're gonna receive it moreimpactfully too.
Kelly Siebold (25:23):
you're right, there are different friends,
different situations, and reallycoming at it from that angle and
it's gonna change, right?
Your children are gonna grow.
Life is gonna continue tochange.
So we're talking about a veryspecific transition, but you're
likely gonna go through otherbig transitions in your
friendships, in your lives, andthese skills just kind of keep
going.
How do I show up?
(25:44):
To you as a friend today.
How can I help you best,
Lindsay (25:47):
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Siebold (25:48):
Lindsay?
What else would you want ourmoms listening to know?
Lindsay (25:53):
Mm.
Well, from a child freeperspective, I think I would
want the moms to know that.
If you have a friend who haschosen not to have kids, that
doesn't mean that they don'tlove
Kelly Siebold (26:11):
I.
Lindsay (26:12):
and that doesn't mean that they want to be part of
your world.
I think that there is this,pressure for when someone
becomes a mom to go get alltheir mom friends and for the
child free women to go gathertheir child free friends.
And that's important too.
It's really important.
But that can sometimes createthis, divide and this
(26:34):
anticipation of losing eachother.
And so to just really, reflectand value, those friendships
regardless of that familystatus.
Kelly Siebold (26:43):
I love that completely because you're right.
And how do you honor each otherand that friendship that you've
built and are gonna keepbuilding along the way and
repairing, connecting all thethings that we're gonna keep
doing to stay in each other'slives.
Lindsay (26:58):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, just be curious and honestand vulnerable.
I think those are the key tenetsto connection, right.
Kelly Siebold (27:09):
I love that.
moms, I hope some of thisconversation was really helpful.
Again, if you've got a friendthat you feel like that
disconnect is happening oryou're feeling it on your end,
you don't know how to have thisconversations if you don't
normally have.
This type of talk with yourfriend, would love for you to
listen to this, send it to her.
I really love Lindsay, what yousaid at the very beginning about
(27:31):
it's okay to feel grief rightnow, right?
Because this is a change.
It is a change in yourrelationship and that's okay.
And I don't think a lot of usthink about the grief that comes
with having a baby on both ends.
Lindsay (27:44):
Yeah.
Kelly Siebold (27:45):
Thank you for being there for me during all
this, and we will see you nextweek.
If you enjoyed this episode andfound it helpful, please be sure
to hit subscribe.
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(28:07):
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Remember, you are not alone withsupport.
You can feel better together.
Let's thrive postpartum.
Welcome to Let's ThrivePostpartum, where we tackle
postpartum depression andanxiety.
Head on, guiding you back toyourself.
Join Kelly Seabold, founder ofThrive Postpartum and Ashley
Moore, a maternal mental healththerapist.
Through honesty and laughter, weshare expert advice and real
stories.
(00:25):
While not therapy or medicaladvice, you'll find education,
support and hope.
Welcome to the village.
Let's thrive postpartum.
Kelly Siebold (00:36):
Hi, and welcome back to Let's Thrive Postpartum.
I'm Kelly, and today we're gonnatalk about something not a lot
of people get prepared for afterhaving a baby, and that's.
Impacts to friendships.
So if you're struggling afterhaving a child, whether it's
depression, anxiety, or justthat overwhelm that never seems
to go away, changes in yourfriendship can feel even more
(01:00):
intense.
And often this is that time whenyou need those relationships the
most.
Maybe you feel like a friend haspulled away.
Maybe you have, or maybe itfeels hard to connect in that
same way or explain to yourfriend what you need.
Or maybe you're just simplygrieving that this friendship
used to feel effortless and nowit feels hard.
(01:20):
So I want you to know you're notalone.
It's just not you.
And this season is really hardfor both sides of the
friendship.
So today I'm really, reallyexcited to talk to one of my
favorite people in the world.
My best friend Lindsay Carter.
She is a licensed mental healththerapist in Asheville, North
Carolina, and she has a virtualpractice life shift therapy
(01:42):
where she helps adults heal fromcomplex trauma, especially in
major life transition likepostpartum.
She's also someone who haspersonally walked alongside of
me, both personally andprofessionally as we navigated
how our friendship reallychanged postpartum, which makes
this episode feel so honest andkind of vulnerable for me.
(02:03):
But I want us to get into a fewthings.
We're gonna talk about whyrelationships can feel strained
and distance after a baby.
What's really behind that grief,guilt, or silence.
How becoming a mom shifts youridentity.
What the non-parent friend mightbe feeling and how to really
repair and reconnect from aplace of honesty.
(02:24):
So if you are feeling that acheof disconnection with one of
your friends, or if you're thefriend who's really wanting to
know how to better support thatperson that you love, this is a
great conversation for you.
So with that, thank you forsaying yes and coming onto the
podcast.
Lindsay, how are you doingtoday?
Lindsay (02:42):
I am so good.
Kelly Siebold (02:43):
I'm so glad to have you here.
This is one of thoseconversations I've been wanting
to have because you and I havebeen through it, and I think
getting to talk through impactsof having a baby on friendships
is such a needed conversation.
Lindsay (02:56):
yeah, and I feel like we've had so many versions of
this conversation and each one.
Has been so different becausethere's just so much depth to it
and it is so vulnerable and it'sso important and so, yeah,
there's a part of me that'slike, oh God, there's so much to
talk about here and like we'rebarely gonna scratch the
(03:18):
surface.
So just knowing that.
Kelly Siebold (03:20):
We are, but I think we can scratch the surface
in a couple of places because aswe've gone through this so much
stuff comes up.
So hitting the highlights ofwhat somebody who feels this is
going through.
I love your perspective ofhere's what the friend is going
through.
Right?
'cause a lot of times you'rethinking about your own
experience and I love giving ourmom listeners.
(03:41):
The view of it's on both sides.
So can we start off by talkingabout why relationships can
really feel so strained anddifferent and distant after
having a baby?
Lindsay (03:54):
Yeah.
and I think like it's soimportant
Kelly Siebold (03:57):
I.
Lindsay (03:57):
the framework by zooming way out and just
acknowledging that the systemconditioned us.
So many systems have conditionedfriendships to be really
difficult in adulthood, period.
And then you add in postpartumand those different life.
Priorities and it makes it evenmore difficult, right?
(04:19):
We live in a veryindividualistic culture, which
means like we, and I know youtalk about this all the time,
there's like this elusivevillage that never shows up and
there's this expectation thatmom's just like, go hide away
for a while, and it's like thislike kind of vacation and pop
back up and everything's fine.
And so that makes kind of thatconnection really hard.
(04:42):
In the first place.
on top of that, like how thingshave changed, like women are
having babies at different ages,so different stages of life.
You're not doing it together atthe same time.
And then a lot of women arechoosing not to have children at
all, which is the dynamic we'vefound ourselves in and I think
(05:04):
that's where there can be, Forthe subject we're talking about,
right?
Or like there can be that, thatdisconnect or a fear of
disconnect when two friends'priorities and lifestyles have
just gone in such drasticallydifferent directions and they
don't quite know how to show upfor the other person.
Kelly Siebold (05:27):
It's true because when you and I first met, we've
worked at two differentcompanies together.
We were in our early twenties,and then we got to reconnect
again at a second company,probably late twenties maybe.
I was in my early thirties, andso we were non children.
Very different frame of life.
What we were doing at the timewas very different than what we
(05:48):
are both doing now.
There's a lot of changes and Ithink you're right of just
saying it's not what you thinkit's gonna be as far as that
village isn't there.
We're not gonna do everythingtogether at the same time, and
it's hard and we can still befriends.
Lindsay (06:05):
Oh my God.
Yeah, and I think like whatyou're talking about is so
important that we anticipate allof that change.
that we can anticipate the griefthat comes with that change too.
And that comes on both sidesthat we're like, and I think
this is something I know we'vetalked about before, where the
mom friend might be announcingtheir pregnancy and there's so
(06:25):
much happiness and joy andexcitement the non-parent friend
is excited for that friend, butalso like, oh God, I'm losing
this person.
Right.
And then their grief might bekicking in at that stage without
the mom friend really knowingit.
I'm curious like how it feelsfor you, like where you think
moms kind of notice that shiftor experience that grief.
Kelly Siebold (06:49):
So I love that we're talking about grief and
friendship.
I mean, to start off with rightthere, because it's not
something I feel like we talkenough about because friendships
do change.
Just like you said, thatrelationship is gonna be
different.
You're gonna have less of thatperson I've been the non-parent
friend and the parent friend, Iremember friends having that, oh
gosh, this is changing, sadfeeling while also being so
(07:13):
happy for that person and myfriend who was having kids.
I don't think it hit me untilhaving a child.
I think the excitement and allthe prepping and planning and
getting to be there.
There was just so muchanticipation of a baby and a
lifestyle change.
I think the grief of, oh no,this friendship is different,
(07:36):
really started.
After having a child and, andwhat I mean by that is suddenly
I didn't have the autonomy to gosee you as much as I wanted to
do phone calls be there, likeall the stuff that was normal
part of Friendship Life for us,that all came to us sudden halt
because suddenly I was tied to achild 24 7.
(08:00):
And when you add in thedepression and anxiety, I didn't
even have the bandwidth to say,let me put her in the car and
drive to see you.
Like that wasn't a thing.
Lindsay (08:06):
Yeah,
Kelly Siebold (08:07):
It's a weird feeling.
Lindsay (08:08):
Yeah.
And It's so isolating, right?
Kelly Siebold (08:13):
Yes.
Lindsay (08:13):
way you're describing it.
'cause like, I didn't, don'tremember like, feel clued into
that from you.
Right.
And, and I didn't feel abandonedby you.
You had a baby.
Like, I understood that.
But I, and I look back and Ihave like this, I do have regret
for not showing up more orasking you how you felt about
(08:38):
those change.
'cause there is, and I thinkthis is common too for like the
child free friend where it'slike don't know what the mom
needs and we're, there's likethis idea of like, we just need
to allow space, like allow somuch space.
Right.
Kelly Siebold (08:55):
Yes.
Lindsay (08:55):
that was lonely for you.
Kelly Siebold (08:58):
It was and don't feel regret.
'cause I wouldn't have known howto say what I wanted had you
have asked.
Right.
But I think you're right.
I think we always say give momspace and then looking back, I.
To all of my mom friends that Iwas the non-parent friend.
I didn't know how to show up.
So when I did show up, it was,how is baby doing?
It was never, how are you doing?
(09:19):
Let's let me be here for you.
And so I think that is one oflike the constant conversations
I keep having with people is howdo you be there for mom and not
baby?
Right?
Because again, I didn't knowsociety taught me to be there
for a baby.
So I think that's just anotherone of those barriers to
connection is showing up.
Mom, I did not do that in myrelationships.
Lindsay (09:42):
But that also wasn't like expected of you.
Right?
I think that's important too,that we're
Kelly Siebold (09:48):
It.
Lindsay (09:48):
ourselves grace in this, that we're all kind of
conditioned to be like, yeah, weshow up in our friendships with
like things figured out.
And if you don't have it figuredout.
space from the friendship, and Ithink that's where it's like,
oh, we need to work harder tofacilitate that for ourselves
and for each other by not justcatching up with each other, not
(10:13):
just asking questions about thebaby, but like asking about each
other's felt experiences like.
What's it like to be a mom now?
What does it feel like to be amom and, and I, we don't have to
have the perfect questions,right?
It's really a practice of justbeing vulnerable enough to share
(10:35):
that we might not know how tosupport each other right now,
and saying like, I wanna knowhow you're doing and I don't
even know the right questions toask.
Kelly Siebold (10:46):
I think that is a perfect thing to say, right?
And I think it's the mom beinglike, I don't know how to
explain this, but I'm not good.
And giving kind of more of thathonest answer.
One of our guests at some pointsaid a brilliant thing to me
that was, if you ever ask a momhow she's doing and you
automatically get the fine orthe great that you just stop and
say, no, really, and just goquiet because that's an
(11:06):
automated response.
But there's probably more there.
And I love that tip just beinglike, because you don't know how
to ask, but really what's justgoing on?
Lindsay (11:15):
Yeah.
Kelly Siebold (11:16):
What are other comments we've talked about?
Like, I don't know how to ask.
There's kind of that disconnect.
We've both been through grief.
What other can be barriers inthis type of relationship that
mom should know about?
Lindsay (11:27):
I think from like, well, one thing that comes to
mind, I feel like need to kindof differentiate How, child free
women might identify theirexperience that, child free
typically is by choice andchildless typically isn't right.
If there's infertility issuesthere.
And so there might be somedistance from that friend
(11:51):
depending on they're processingtheir experience with having a
family.
Right.
I think that top of that,there's also that reciprocal,
pressure to know what to say andhow to fix things.
(12:12):
And so, I don't know if this isanswering your question exactly,
but like,
Kelly Siebold (12:17):
it is.
Lindsay (12:17):
it all comes back to like, okay, how do we connect
over these differences?
Right?
And so I think being able to.
Just witness each other.
Just be curious and just witnesseach other.
that's the foundation ofconnection and that's the
foundation of healing.
(12:39):
I often find too, I hear thisfrom clients a lot where new
moms.
Feel so good after they havejust a good solid sit down with
an old friend where they hearwhat is happening in their
friend's life too.
Right.
And think for the non friend,it's giving yourself permission
(13:00):
to tell your mom friend what'shappening in your life and not
to be afraid of overwhelming herwith that.
Right?
Because we're both benefitingfrom witnessing each other and
just from really deeply seeingone another.
Kelly Siebold (13:15):
Yes, and there is something about a little bit of
normalcy in that, right?
Getting to hear like thenormalcy of, here's your life
and tell me everything about it.
I wanna know everything you'redoing brings that sense of
everything in my life haschanged.
Thank you for keeping thisnormal and letting you still
have that experience.
There's something, at least forme, refreshing of that.
(13:36):
Like just deep down, you feel somuch better after having those
connection conversations.
Lindsay (13:42):
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Siebold (13:43):
How do we help a mom make this transition, work
on this friendship piece andreally help her stay connected
or find what she's needing froma friendship when all this
change is happening?
Lindsay (14:01):
Yeah, part of me is going back to the system thing
of I hate telling a mom to domore work for her healing,
right?
because ideally everyone shouldjust be showing up in this
stage, but Because it's not herfault, because it is the system
it is important that she takethe time to really reflect on
(14:22):
and maybe even restructure herbeliefs and expectations of
friendship.
and this is the time to reallyprioritize quality over
quantity.
so really reflecting on likewhat is her felt experience in
her friendships, who can sheinvite into this vulnerable
(14:43):
conversation and who does shewant to be part of her village,
part of her support system tojust.
Help her be witnessed, to justhelp her be seen and allow that
emotional support.
Ruby Warrington wrote thisbeautiful book called Women
(15:03):
Without Kids, and in it shetalks about how child free women
have to restructure their rolein the lives of.
who are mothers around them.
Right.
And there is this concept ofaloe parenting, Of aloe mothers,
which is essentially thiselusive village that shows up
and does a lot of the heavylifting and caregiving or what
(15:26):
should happen, right?
But often doesn't.
she talks about how the childfree friend can be an aloe
mother for the mother.
that our role is in nurturingthe mom, that it doesn't have to
be about the baby.
(15:46):
That it's about giving the momthe space to be a friend and not
a mom, to just be a grownupagain.
And so I think that goes back tohelping the mom reflect on like,
okay, who do I want to be my aowmothers in this process?
Yes.
Kelly Siebold (16:06):
I love what you said about quality over quantity
If you're struggling right nowin that new motherhood phase.
Who do you want?
There doesn't have to beeverybody.
They can still be your friends,but really focusing on that
quality, who are you reallygonna go through this with and
who is gonna help you get to theother side?
Lindsay (16:24):
Who do you feel safe enough to be a true mess around?
Kelly Siebold (16:30):
How do you
Lindsay (16:32):
I.
Kelly Siebold (16:33):
talk?
To your friend.
Let's say I'm the mom and we aregoing through this transition
and I don't feel like I'mshowing up enough for you, or I
don't know how to say, Hey, canyou help me?
'cause I don't know what I need.
How do you have some of thoseconversations?
I know you can't tell us that,but do you have any pointers to
start?
Lindsay (16:51):
I don't know if there's one right answer to your
question, but hearing you askthat, I immediately am going
back to what you asked me once.
it was beautiful and it was at atime when I was processing a lot
in my life, you just verydirectly and calmly asked me how
(17:13):
can I be a good friend to younow?
And I just remember thatstopping me in my tracks, Kelly,
being like, that's such anobvious question and that's such
a Good question.
and I'm like, why haven't Iasked her this question?
And so I think to go back toyour question Having the mom
(17:37):
start asking herself that,right, of like, can this person
be a good friend to me?
And that that's not to say,okay, now come up with a list of
demands and bring it to yourfriend.
But it helps you clarify wait,what is it that I'm missing
right now?
What is it that I'm needing thatyou can formulate What is it
(17:58):
you're asking for?
What is it that you want to talkabout?
And I think that those are kindof the stepping stones there
and, I feel like those kinds ofquestions and that question in
particular has turned out to besuch an anchor in our
friendship, right?
Where it's like now we ask eachother that question or a version
of that question the time.
Kelly Siebold (18:20):
Yes, because we talk in general in therapy and
in life you ask that to yourpartner, right?
You ask your husband or yourspouse or your partner all the
time, like what do you need?
And that answer changes.
And I think when we brought itinto you and I asking it, it
made, showing up and being therethe way this person needs it, so
much easier'cause you're notguessing as much.
And so processing, I think yougoing back and saying.
(18:43):
Figuring out what you needfirst, because maybe I'm
grieving because I don't get asmuch quality time,
Lindsay (18:48):
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Siebold (18:48):
maybe I feel lonely for other reasons, and
kind of figuring out what thatpiece is makes it easier to say,
Hey, can we have a 30 minutezoom today?
Or whatever it could be to startsaying, this is the piece I'm
missing.
Help me with this piece.
Lindsay (19:07):
Yeah.
Really it brings to the surface,it really kind of crystallizes
the commitment that you have inthat friendship, right?
Of like, Hey, because we're ableto have this conversation, it
shows that like we prioritizeeach other enough to be flexible
for each other, to like want tobend like what we're able to
(19:29):
give so that we both feelsupported.
Kelly Siebold (19:33):
Yes, and I wanna offer one more thing that's
slightly a tangent to this, butkind of relates.
we had a guest at the verybeginning of our podcast.
She goes by the labor mama andshe had a great tip that I feel
like I keep sharing all the timebecause if you don't know if
you're going to strugglementally after childbirth,
having someone, a friend thatyou have a conversation with
(19:54):
while you're pregnant or rightafter and say.
Lindsay, can you tell ifsomething's happening to me?
Can you be the person thatwatches me and just say, you
don't act like yourself and tellme.
I won't know how to ask, but canyou tell me?
And I will take it with a thankyou and a notice that it's
coming from a good place.
And so proactively, you'resetting that safety up.
(20:16):
If somebody's living in thehousehold with you, it's much
easier for them to be in it too.
But to say you have permissionto tell me that I'm not okay, I
need help.
So I think even just when you'rehaving these conversations with
your friend, even asking somestuff up front, can you tell if
I'm doing bad?
Will you tell me?
'cause I may not know.
Lindsay (20:34):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think, the child freefriend should also be, I don't
mean to say should, but liketelling.
The mom friend that if I am notshowing up in a way that is
working for you and that youneed, I hope you feel safe
enough to tell me that,
Kelly Siebold (20:55):
communication.
It's so key and also can be sohard So that's a lot from the
mom side, right?
A lot of us going through thisprobably feel this way, but I
think it's really just asimportant to see how that
relationship and that change isimpacting your friend and the
child free friend.
Okay, so Lindsay, I wanna askanother question.
(21:16):
If two friends are going throughkind of this disconnect, I've
realized here might be what Ineed or what you need, how do
you talk about building thatconnection, backer, repairing if
your feelings are hurt, or howdo you bridge that gap to get
back to where that connectionshould be?
Lindsay (21:34):
I think first, just anticipating those kind of
ruptures to happen, right?
Not even necessarily ruptures,just periods of disconnection,
because this is a majortransition.
Things are going to change.
Your dynamic is naturally goingto change.
You're gonna miss each othersometimes, and you're both
adjusting to this change.
(21:58):
So.
think it's really helpful justto anticipate and know that
there are gonna be maybe somemissteps or miscommunication
there, and that's okay.
And when that does happen,noticing how that shows up in
you, what does that mean you'refeeling, and again, what does
(22:18):
that mean that you're missing?
Kelly Siebold (22:21):
Yeah.
Lindsay (22:21):
in the relationship so that you can kind of yourself in
the love for that person that'screating that feeling.
Right.
And that can help you then movetoward communicating from a
place of like, Hey, I miss youand, and this is like what I'm
hoping we can talk about that'sdifferent if there's, A real
(22:45):
rupture where something was saidor done that was hurtful, that
that
Kelly Siebold (22:50):
Okay.
Lindsay (22:50):
to be more directly.
But it's the same thing, right?
Evaluating how is thisrelationship important to me and
what do I want out of thisconversation?
If it's repair, then it is soimportant that we come into that
conversation with that intentionof repair and from that place of
(23:12):
love versus a place of maybeaccusation.
Kelly Siebold (23:17):
I love that.
And so going back and saying,not that I'm mad at you because
you haven't spent time with me.
Looking at the same thing ofsaying, okay, what I'm doing is
missing the time and theconnection that we have and
saying, I miss you.
When can we get together samefeeling, but saying, here's the
need and coming at it with loveand respect, and how do I fix
(23:38):
this to get what I need versushow dare you not spend time with
me?
Two very different ways to havethat conversation.
Lindsay (23:46):
Well, and it's also speaking to your felt
experience, right?
Which also invites the otherperson to talk about their felt
experience.
hopefully from a less defensivepoint of view so that there's a
higher likelihood of now you canunderstand where each other are
coming from.
And it's like the other personprobably wasn't trying to hurt
(24:09):
you, right?
And they wanna know how it isthat their behavior impacted you
and led to you feeling hurt sothat you can collaborate on a
realistic way for both of you tofeel supported.
But I also wanna stress that isreally important for both people
to be honest about whether ornot they can give what the other
(24:29):
person might be asking for.
and that might go back to themom friend really on how she
wants her village to look.
Right?
there might be some child freefriends who.
Our uncomfortable being aroundkids, and those friends might
(24:51):
not be in, your circle as much,right?
But is there value for thatfriendship in other ways and
vice versa, You might havefriends who are all for the
caregiving and want to doubt onthe baby and, are maybe not so
much into the one-on-one time.
and so really being open to whatyour friends Want to give
(25:13):
because when they're supportingyou from that really authentic
place, it's gonna feel better.
You're gonna receive it moreimpactfully too.
Kelly Siebold (25:23):
you're right, there are different friends,
different situations, and reallycoming at it from that angle and
it's gonna change, right?
Your children are gonna grow.
Life is gonna continue tochange.
So we're talking about a veryspecific transition, but you're
likely gonna go through otherbig transitions in your
friendships, in your lives, andthese skills just kind of keep
going.
How do I show up?
(25:44):
To you as a friend today.
How can I help you best,
Lindsay (25:47):
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Siebold (25:48):
Lindsay?
What else would you want ourmoms listening to know?
Lindsay (25:53):
Mm.
Well, from a child freeperspective, I think I would
want the moms to know that.
If you have a friend who haschosen not to have kids, that
doesn't mean that they don'tlove
Kelly Siebold (26:11):
I.
Lindsay (26:12):
and that doesn't mean that they want to be part of
your world.
I think that there is this,pressure for when someone
becomes a mom to go get alltheir mom friends and for the
child free women to go gathertheir child free friends.
And that's important too.
It's really important.
But that can sometimes createthis, divide and this
(26:34):
anticipation of losing eachother.
And so to just really, reflectand value, those friendships
regardless of that familystatus.
Kelly Siebold (26:43):
I love that completely because you're right.
And how do you honor each otherand that friendship that you've
built and are gonna keepbuilding along the way and
repairing, connecting all thethings that we're gonna keep
doing to stay in each other'slives.
Lindsay (26:58):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, just be curious and honestand vulnerable.
I think those are the key tenetsto connection, right.
Kelly Siebold (27:09):
I love that.
moms, I hope some of thisconversation was really helpful.
Again, if you've got a friendthat you feel like that
disconnect is happening oryou're feeling it on your end,
you don't know how to have thisconversations if you don't
normally have.
This type of talk with yourfriend, would love for you to
listen to this, send it to her.
I really love Lindsay, what yousaid at the very beginning about
(27:31):
it's okay to feel grief rightnow, right?
Because this is a change.
It is a change in yourrelationship and that's okay.
And I don't think a lot of usthink about the grief that comes
with having a baby on both ends.
Lindsay (27:44):
Yeah.
Kelly Siebold (27:45):
Thank you for being there for me during all
this, and we will see you nextweek.
If you enjoyed this episode andfound it helpful, please be sure
to hit subscribe.
Leave us your feedback and giveus a five star review.
For even more support, visitus@wethrivepostpartum.com.
(28:07):
Slash podcast to sign up for ournewsletter and learn more about
our community.
Remember, you are not alone withsupport.
You can feel better together.
Let's thrive postpartum.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!