January 27, 2021 • 43 mins
This is a fantastic interview with Terry Tucker, author of "Sustainable Excellence." Terry is an athlete, former law enforcement officer, survivor of corporate America, and for the last ten years, warrior against cancer. Rather than let this up and down battle break his spirit, he's used his struggles to help and inspire others. He has amazing perspective and insight, and you can learn more about him at www.motivationalcheck.com
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Episode Transcript
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LTP (00:05):
In the race to success, we're not all starting from the
same place. Level the Pursuitseeks to fill in the gaps and
provide accessible bite sizedleadership lessons for anyone
looking to improve their skillsand prepare for the next step,
whatever that might be. Welcomeback my friends. You know, it's
up to us what we do withwhatever life gives us sometimes
(00:25):
we get opportunities andbenefits and amazing talents.
And sometimes we get one hurdleafter another. But how we
respond is completely up to us.
Our guest today is Mr. TerryTucker. And besides the fact
that he played basketball at theCitadel, he was a cop, he
crushed corporate America. He'salso been fighting cancer for
the last 10 years. And insteadof letting that derail all of
(00:48):
the wonderful things in hislife, he turned that into an
opportunity to inspire others.
He is the author of "Sustainableexcellence," which is available
at Barnes and Noble and onlineat all of your ebook retailers.
And he has a website calledwww.motivationalcheck.com. So
today, we're going to talk tohim about his experiences and
(01:10):
learn a little bit more aboutthe great things that he's
doing. So, Terry, welcome, I amso grateful to have you here,
you have a lot of amazingexperiences. And I think that
your perspectives are reallygoing to add a lot to my
listeners and give them somecool experiences to build on as
(01:31):
they try to move forward ontheir journey and overcome the
obstacles in their past. So aswe start out, can you just tell
us a little bit about yourselfand the things that make you who
you are?
Terry Tucker (01:41):
Sure. Thanks for having me on, man. I really
appreciate this. And I'm lookingforward to the conversation. A
little bit about me. So I wasborn and raised in Chicago, I'm
the oldest of three boys. I'msix foot eight, and I played
college basketball at theCitadel. I have a brother who's
six foot seven, who was apitcher for the University of
Notre Dame. And then my middlebrother is six foot six and he
(02:04):
was drafted by the ClevelandCavaliers in the National
Basketball Association back in1983. And then my dad was six,
five. So if you sat behind ourfamily and church growing up,
there wasn't a prayers chanceyou were going to see anything
that was going on whatsoever. Mymom was five, eight, but you
know, she pretty much was theboss of all of us. It really
(02:25):
didn't matter how tall we werehow big we were mom ruled the
roost. athletics, specificallybasketball has been an important
part of my life growing up andas I said, I attended the
Citadel in Charleston, SouthCarolina, on a basketball
scholarship despite having threeknee surgeries in high school.
When I graduated from college, Imoved home to find a job. I was
the first person in my family tograduate from college and I was
(02:48):
all set to make my mark on theworld with my newly obtained
Business Administration degree.
And I look back now and realizewhat a knucklehead I was. I
didn't know anything aboutbusiness back then. Fortunately,
I was able to find that firstjob, I got a job in the in the
corporate office to corporateheadquarters of Wendy's
International, the hamburgerchain. But unfortunately, I
ended up living with my parentsfor the next three and a half
(03:09):
years as I helped my mother carefor my grandmother and my
father, who were both dying ofdifferent forms of cancer. My
wife and I've been married for27 years, we have one child, the
daughter, who's a graduate ofthe United States Air Force
Academy, and is a lieutenant inthe newly formed space force.
LTP (03:26):
It's so exciting.
Terry Tucker (03:27):
Yeah, it really is it and it's fun to understand
your connection with the AirForce and that and, and so it's,
it's this is I'm really lookingforward to that. So in a
nutshell, that's, that's prettymuch me.
LTP (03:39):
Fantastic. So we share a few things I trained in South
Carolina, and I'm also abasketball person I went to
college to play I did not end upplaying in college at that. It
just wasn't a good fit. But thatwas my love. And I still play
my, my bonus son is a prettygood basketball player. And
that's one of the things that weshare. It's one of the cool
things is we play together. So Ifeel you're on the role of
(04:01):
basketball in our lives. BecauseI love it.
Terry Tucker (04:03):
It's funny, because our daughter got my
height, she's six foot two, shewent to the to the Air Force
Academy, they recruited her toplay basketball, and then ended
up having knee surgery orfreshman year and kind of ended
that dream, but still was ableto get a great education. So
it's a little bit of a tradeoff. But she she's still you
know, she knocks it around alittle bit. Unfortunately, I'm
(04:24):
in a wheelchair, so I can't doas much anymore. But she still
loves the game. And I do is justas you do.
LTP (04:32):
So you mentioned that and so let's let's talk a little bit
about that. One of the thingsthat this podcast comes from is
an understanding that we're notall starting from the same
place. And the obstacles placedin our path are not all the
same. But at the end of the day,we don't we can only do our best
with what we're given. You'vehad some pretty big curveballs
(04:53):
thrown at you. How How have youapproached it and I'd love to
hear about that as much as youfeel comfortable but how have
you Use those curveballs to kindof build on that and and move
forward.
Terry Tucker (05:05):
Sure. So I, as you said, really kind of the biggest
challenge of my life began in2012 when I was diagnosed with a
rare form of melanoma thatpresented on the bottom of my
left foot, by the time thatcancer had been detected and
metastasize, or spread to alymph node in my groin, and
because my cancer was so rare,it was recommended that I be
(05:27):
treated at the world renowned MDAnderson Cancer Center in
Houston. I want your audience tounderstand that. What I'm going
to describe was what Iexperienced during my cancer
journey, I realized, and youknow this, there are 1000s and
1000s of people out there thatare suffering terribly from
their diseases, whether they bemental or physical, and I make
(05:48):
no claims to have the marketcornered on suffering. But one
thing I've learned is thatsuffering is one of life's
greatest teachers. So at MDAnderson, I had two surgeries to
remove the tumor and all thelymph nodes in my groin, and I
had a skin graft to close thewound on the bottom of my foot.
And after I healed I was put ona weekly injection of a drug
(06:08):
called interferon to help keepthe disease from coming back.
For me, interferon was ahorrible, nasty, debilitating
drug. And I took those weeklyinjections for four years and
seven months before themedication became so toxic to my
body that ended up in theintensive care unit with a fever
of 108 degrees, which many timesisn't compatible with being
(06:31):
alive,
LTP (06:32):
right.
Terry Tucker (06:32):
While I was on interferon, it gave me severe
flu like symptoms for two tothree days after each injection.
I lost 50 pounds. During mytherapy, I used to joke with my
wife that I felt I was so skinnythat I could go hang gliding on
a Dorito you know, it's kind ofone of those things, but I was,
you know, I have flu symptoms, Iwas nauseous, I was fatigued, I
(06:53):
was chilled. Even my ability totaste food diminished, and my
body continually ate and thismisery went on for over 1660
days. One thing I've learnedduring all my payments suffering
is that you have two choices,you can succumb to the
debilitating discomfort andmisery, or you can learn to
embrace it, and use it to makeyou a stronger and better human
(07:16):
being. I chose the latter. But Iwant your listeners to
understand that there were daysI felt so poorly, it was so much
agony, I literally prayed todie, I just wanted out of this
life, I realized that pain anddiscomfort can beat you to your
knees and keep you there if youlet it. But I also came to
appreciate that I could use mypain and suffering to make me a
(07:39):
stronger and more determinedindividual. I have a posted note
here on my desk that I see everytime I'm sitting here. And it
has three sentences on it. AndI'd like to share those with you
and your audience. The first oneis you need to control your mind
or it will control you. Thesecond one is you need to
(07:59):
embrace your pain and sufferingand use it to make you a
stronger and more determinedindividual. And the third one is
as long as you don't quit, youcan never be defeated. So those
three things are, are reallykind of my, I guess for lack of
a better word truths. You know,they're they're the things that
guide me. They're the thingsthat motivate me, they're,
(08:20):
they're things that I'mcurrently on a clinical trial of
a drug that is just beaten me,just beat me up, to be honest
with you. I mean, I shake, Ithrow up, I do everything and I
had a nurse come in one day andsaid, you know, Terry, nobody
would think anything less if youif you stopped doing this
struck. I mean, it's it'skilling you. And I looked at her
(08:43):
and I said well, you don't knowme very well, but I will. I will
never stop taking this drug.
They may take me off theclinical trial or I may die, but
I'll never stop it. And you haveto understand that these three
truths are what pushed meforward so I just take that pain
and I turn it inside and I useit as fuel or energy to to just
make me stronger or tougher. Butplease understand I'm not
(09:08):
Superman, I mean I I hurt I cryI you know I feel lousy. I just
like everybody else. But it'swhat you do with it. You know,
do you say oh woe is me or youjust say you know what? Give me
more I can take it I'm gonna useit as fuel and burn it and make
me tougher.
LTP (09:27):
Absolutely. So that's another thing we share. So I had
cancer when I was in my 30s. AndI also got treatment at MD
Anderson and MD Anderson doesnot support the podcast in any
way but I also had a reallygreat care there. I was very
blessed to be taken care of. Andone of the things that I found
(09:47):
that what you just said reallyresonated with me is after my
second and I used to fly fromSouth Carolina to Texas, every
three months for for follow ups.
It was which is a lot. And oneof the times I think it was my
second follow up, for somereason, I was convinced it was
back, I was convinced. And sofor about two or three weeks
(10:07):
before my appointment, I wouldcome home from work. And I'm an
I was a doctor, mind you, I'm intraining. So I'm taking care of
patients all day. And I wouldcome home and I would sit on my
couch and stare at the wallwaiting, waiting for the
appointment, understanding thatI was going to get this
diagnosis and recurrence, thethe mortality associated with
recurrence was much, much higherthan my initial diagnosis. So I
(10:29):
knew if it came back, and I wasgoing to it was going to come
back and I was going to die fromit. I was convinced. And I went
to my appointment, and I wasfine. And I came back. And I
realized I had lived, I hadwasted three weeks being dead. I
was like, What if I can decideto be alive, or I can decide to
(10:52):
already be dead, I mean, mybody's going to do it's going to
do but what my mind decides todo. And so after that, I accept
that there are things that we wecan't control, and we may have
to deal with. But I'm not goingto waste a single day on
something I can't control. Andso what you said, I feel like,
we kind of came to the samepoint in a little bit different
way. But I really, reallyidentify with that.
Terry Tucker (11:16):
Yeah, it you know, if you think about your mind,
and you think about how youknow, your your mind knows your
fears, it knows yourvulnerabilities, and, and your
mind, your mind. I mean, we knowthat the mind or the brain
avoids pain, and seeks pleasure.
So to the brain, you know, thestatus quo is good, don't don't
(11:39):
mess with it, just just staythere. So anytime you want to
make a change, you know, thosefears those vulnerabilities kick
in, and all of a sudden, you'resitting there and you're like,
Oh my god, you know, I, I cuzI'm in the same boat right now
Tuesday, I have a CAT scan, Ihave learned through talking to
people that so far I am the onlyperson on this clinical trial
(12:01):
that is having a positiveresult. And including one person
that has died. And so I'msitting here thinking, well, if
you know, this cat scan,probably I'm going to end up in
the same boat that they are thatyou know, it's not going to be
successful. And, and and thetumors are going to grow and all
that kind of stuff. And and youknow, then you kind of take a
step back and say, Well, so whatwhat if they do? You know, it
(12:22):
doesn't it's not the end of theworld, the last CAT scan showed
a 15% reduction in the tumors.
So even if they grow, it's notthe end of the world, other
things can happen. There areother drugs out there that they
can combine with this clinicaltrial and move forward. So I'm
like, Yeah, okay, we're gonnahave a CAT scan, big deal. But
it's, I remember my dad who diedof cancer very early on in his
(12:44):
50s. And he used to talk aboutwaiting for the other shoe to
drop. And I'm like, yeah, youspent your whole life waiting
for something bad to happen.
Three and a half years ofwaiting for yourself to die. I'd
rather spend three and a halfyears living and you know, when
when the shoe drops, I guesslike I think I've told you
before, you know, whether I liveor whether I die is way above my
(13:04):
paygrade. I spent a lot of timeworrying about that or thinking
about that.
LTP (13:11):
No, I completely agree. So before you started, and actually
I think probably after a littlebit after the beginning of this
journey, you had a lot of reallyinteresting jobs besides the the
corporate stuff, you know, youdid the police department,
you've, you've been in a fewdifferent areas. So when you
think about the experiencesyou've had now and you think
(13:32):
about leaders you've worked withand situations you found
yourself. How do you see thesethings, changing how you view
leading people taking care ofpeople taking initiative in your
life, like where do you seethese things coming together.
Terry Tucker (13:46):
I've been fortunate that so when I was in
high school, I had three kneesurgeries and this was a time
before arthroscopic surgery wasavailable. Actually, the first
two were before arthroscopicsurgery. The third one was x
arthroscopic, so I have a largezipper scar on the outside of my
of my knee. And it was also atime my first surgery it was a
(14:09):
it was a cartilage very simplekind of thing, take cartilage
out no big deal, but the woundgot infected. And it was
surmised and I don't know ifthis is true, that scar tissue
didn't grow into that areabecause of the infection and the
fever and all that kind ofstuff. So when I'm playing
basketball, which is a verytough sport on your knees, I was
(14:30):
basically bone on bone you knowit with without having any
cushioning in there. So mysecond surgery was literally the
removal of 25 pieces of my bone,some of the largest pieces of
rice. And pretty much I was toldyour basketball playing days are
over and you might not walknormally again. And I was in a
cast from my hip to my ankle foran entire summer. You know, they
(14:53):
don't do that stuff anymore. Imean,
LTP (14:55):
no, we don't
Terry Tucker (14:57):
you know this. I remember going to the doctor,
and it was the doctor who didthe second surgery was the team
doctor for DePaul University,great guy, Bob Hamilton. And he,
he cut the cast off, examine theincision looked at my leg, which
literally looked like I justcome out of a concentration camp
(15:17):
from atrophy because I've usedit all summer, and handed me a
piece of paper with drawings andwords on it for my rehab at
home, there was no go tophysical therapy and all that
kind of just like good luck. Ihope you hope you work your
rehab out. And again, they don'tdo that stuff today, as you
know. So here I am faced withthe only thing I'd ever been
(15:39):
good at in my life up to thispoint in time, of course, I'm
only 15 years old wasbasketball. And now you're
telling me I can't do it? AndI'm like, yeah, watch me. And
that's really kind of the firsttime that I got that that
feeling in my mind that you knowwhat? You told me, I can't do
it. I'm going to do it. Youwatch me do it. And I did. You
know, I started working out andeventually, you know, I was able
(16:00):
to walk and walking lead tojogging and jogging, lead to
running, and I got back on thecourt. And I did get a
scholarship to play division onecollege basketball to sit at
all. But then you know, I go tothe Citadel, or here I am with
you know, and at the time I wasthere was an all male
institution. Very difficult,very tough. One of the
(16:21):
presidents who was there when Iwas there was a guy by the name
of James Stockdale who was amedal of honor winner. Yes, he
was just an incredible. I mean,the guy used to walk around
like, you know, why is it there?
air? I mean, that's the kind ofstuff that he thought, you know,
I mean, he was just so cerebraland so above, like me, I'm, you
know, some 18, 19, 20 year oldkid, I'm like, I there's air so
(16:44):
I can breathe, there's air soyou can blow up basketball. So
of course, why do you you knowwhy is there but he was. So I
got to see his leadership style.
And, and the the general man bythe name of Grimsley, who was in
the army was the president whenI graduated, and then I, I moved
to Wendy's. And I saw DaveThomas, who started Wendy's. And
(17:06):
I mean, the guy was adopted, hewas not articulate. He was not a
good looking man. But he, hetook all this, this is what I
want to do any formed at thetime, you know, a fortune 50
company. And then from there, Imoved to healthcare
administration where I think thebest leader I ever had the
opportunity to work under was awoman by the name of Nancy
(17:28):
schlichting, who was the theyoungest CEO of our hospital, we
were a large house, we were 1000beds and 5000 employees. And she
at 33 was, was the COO andeventually went on to run the
Henry Ford health systems inMichigan. And has I've stayed in
(17:49):
touch with her all these years,President Obama helped or asked
her to work on the VA hospital,kind of reboot and things like
that. She's She's done so manythings. But she was the kind of
woman that she was certainlypersecuted because she was gay.
And everybody knew it. And shedidn't hide it. And she was she
(18:10):
was persecuted, because therewere the hospitals run by a
bunch of white males. And, butshe has, she was the kind of
person that and I'm sure you'veexperienced this, and I know I'm
running on here, but I thinkit's important. She was the kind
of person that if you asked hera question, she wasn't going to
beat around the bush, she went,she was going to give you a
direct answer. And sometimesthat direct answer was no, you
(18:32):
know, I think we should do that.
Well, we're not going to dothat. But she would give you a
reason. And, and her heart ishuge. She actually, I went to
her to ask her for some coverquotes when I wrote my book and,
and how to read the book andstuff like that. And I the fact
that I've just get to sort ofhang around her coattails is
tremendous for me, so so I'vebeen very fortunate in my life,
(18:54):
to see people to see leadersthat were that were good that
were that were successful, thatcared about people. And I
remember and I'll end with this.
I remember when I was a youngman, and I was probably 14 years
old in eighth grade. And I was abig fan of john wooden who at
(19:14):
the time was probably thegreatest basketball coach. I
mean, his UCLA Bruins won sevenNCAA championships in a row. I
mean, that's, you're lucky ifyou can win to at this point in
that, but he had a definition ofsuccess that I've never found a
better one and this is what itwas. He said, success is peace
of mind, which is a directresult of self satisfaction in
(19:39):
knowing that you did the best tobecome the best that you're
capable becoming.
LTP (19:43):
I love that. So I'm a huge Wooden fan. Wooden on Leadership
is one of my favorite books.
It's one of my recommendationsto people for reading. And I
really annoyed my airman wouldtell them how John Wooden would
teach his young five starrecruits how to put on their
socks. And they'd get sofrustrated why I can score 40
(20:04):
points a game I don't need toknow how to put on my socks. But
starting with putting on yoursocks properly and putting on
your shoes properly goes to yourthree point stance properly. It
goes to everything about whatyou do. You start from the
foundations, you do it rightfrom the beginning, and then you
can you know, we have to crawlbefore we can walk before we can
run. And so I love I love johnwooden, I think he's a great
(20:26):
exemplar of, of what I thinkleadership should be.
Terry Tucker (20:31):
Oh, totally, totally. And I remember being my
eighth grade but banquetbasketball banquet was was in a
place called the WorthingtonInn. And it had been an old Pony
Express stop many, many, manyyears ago, and it was, you know,
wasn't a we were small Catholicschool and stuff like that. But
they had a little gift shopthere and, and I saw his book,
(20:53):
they call me coach, and I askedmy mom and dad to, you know,
could I buy it? And my mom anddad looked at me like, I was
nuts. Because like you want toread, you know, it's like you
play basketball. Yes, I want toread this book. And it had, you
know, maybe other than theBible, that book probably had
the biggest impact on my life,just listening to how he grew up
(21:13):
and his philosophy and, and BillWalton was kind of my hero
growing up, you know, play forhim. And I used to lay the
Sports Illustrated's out on thebed next to me, I had a twin
bed, and I would put every day Iwould put my practice uniform,
or my game uniform on those,those pictures of Walton, where
I was expecting some kind of,you know, magic that was gonna
(21:34):
be on my mind, I'm like, youknow what, I'm gonna do this,
and I'm going to have a greatpractice tomorrow, I'm gonna
have a great game, that, youknow, that was something
positive for me. And I look backon that, that was really the
first time that I was kind ofusing my mind to make my body be
successful. So it just kind ofinteresting stories.
LTP (21:53):
That's fantastic, though, as a kid, you came up with, you
know, positive visualization,you had some associations.
Terry Tucker (22:01):
That's exactly how I did it, I'm like, I don't
know, I just, I'm gonna lay thisout here and everything. I'm in
my shoes, my gym bag, everythingwent on top of it. And in the
morning, I pack it all up andoff. We go to school on that. So
yeah, it was pretty funny. And Iremember my youngest brother
came, came in one day, and hesat on one of the Sports
(22:21):
Illustrated room across Don'ttouch that you, you know, you'll
stop the Mojo or something likethat. So it was it was kind of
funny.
LTP (22:30):
That's fantastic. So you described between Admiral
Stockdale, and you know, Dave,I, his name just escaped me
from, Wendy's.
Terry Tucker (22:44):
Thomas.
LTP (22:45):
Yes, Thomas, thank you. But you talked about people that had
really difficult times, youknow, all of your mentors, all
the people, you just hadsomething in their life that
either was visibly differentabout them was culturally or
personally different, or theywent through some pretty
significant hurdles, like, youknow, Hanoi. There's some pretty
(23:06):
big things. Have you known anyleaders that you knew that you
thought were good that didn'thave to overcome something? Or
do you think that those thingskind of are inherent into
leadership is going throughsomething like that?
Terry Tucker (23:20):
I think they're inherent, I mean, I think you
have to, I mean, there are thereare a million courses, you and I
both know this or a millioncourses, a million books and all
that kind of stuff, and you canread them and I do read them.
I'm reading a great book nowcalled legacy, which is about
the the New Zealand nationalrugby team.
LTP (23:38):
Oh my gosh, so good.
Terry Tucker (23:40):
So it is it is and they are supposedly the greatest
sports team of all times in anysport. And, and they you talk
about, they talk about how they,they come up with, with
commitment and humility, like,you know, we don't have all the
answers. Were kind of figuringthis out as we go and things
like that. And so I read thesethings, and I get things out of
(24:00):
them. But I really think inorder to be successful, you've
got to experience life. Youcan't take it out of a book,
you've got to have somethingthat Hitchin, the harder, you
know, you're you're down andit's, it's you're tired. And I
was talking about people who,you know, you can if you give
your all and you and you lose onthe scoreboard, you're not a
(24:22):
loser. But if you don't giveyour all and you went on the
scoreboard, you're still loser,you know, yeah. And that was
kind of that was kind of coachWooden's philosophy. I never I
never worried about winning orthe score. I just worried about
us UCLA doing what we've beentaught to do. And if we do that,
and we're successful at it, itdoesn't matter what the score
(24:43):
is, we're going to besuccessful. And I think that
same principle applies to life.
You know, if you if you haveyour truths, if you know what
you believe in your heart andyour mind and you're willing to
go out there and put it outthere and you know, something
like, No, I don't agree withyou. Okay, that's fine. And I
think you see this in societytoday. I may not agree with you.
So I'm going to start screamingand yelling at you, we can't get
(25:06):
anything done. We're never goingto come together as a country,
if we're screaming at eachother, because I can't
understand what you're saying.
But if we can talk and dialogue,let me explain why I am the way
I am. Please explain to me whyyou are the way you are. And I
put a chapter in my book aboutthe importance of listening, and
(25:27):
not listening to respond, butlistening to understand and how
important that is, and how wedon't do that. You know, I want
to hurry up when you say, Okay,now I'm going to tell you what I
think, no, let me understandwhere you're coming from, and
why you're saying what you'resaying. And if I can do that,
then we can get a whole lotaccomplished. But to answer your
question, I think you've got toexperience life, you've got to
(25:49):
have some ups and downs in orderto be a good leader.
LTP (25:53):
So you said something in there that I think it really hit
me because I can think of timeswhere I didn't, from the
outside, when, you know, I didmy best I did what I was
supposed to do. And the outcomewas not what I was hoping for.
And more than once I've hadsomething positive come out of
that, or someone saw me andsaid, I really liked the way you
(26:14):
handled this, or I know thatyou're free now because this
project didn't work. I haveavailability, and where
something great happened,because of how I was able to
conduct myself in losing. Andsomeone saw it. And have you
have you seen stuff like that?
Have you seen opportunities comeout of having something maybe
sound like a setback or feellike a setback when it happens?
Terry Tucker (26:37):
I have and I went when I was coaching one of the
things I did I coached girlshigh school basketball, when I
was in Houston and, and I was Iwas kind of like wooden I was a
stickler for the small things,the little things, and I used to
make the players. You know,after the game was over, I used
to make our players clean up ourbench. So you know, if there's
(26:59):
cups laying around, put them ina garbage can, you know, if
there's tape laying around, putit in the garbage can and things
like that we're not going toleave this bench a mess. So that
the you know, the boys varsityplayed after us. So they have to
come on the bench and they haveto clean up. So we were did and
I remember, it was just I feltthat was important. I wanted
them to realize that, you know,yeah, this has got to get
(27:20):
cleaned out. Why are you goingto leave it for a manager? What
what makes the manager lessimportant than you as a player.
And I remember I had a refereecome up to me, and he's like, to
coach men. I've never seen thatbefore. I've never seen a coach
make his players police thebench. And and he said, You
know, that's that's prettyimpressive that that made a mark
(27:40):
on him that that had a positiveaspect on him. Now, did it have
a positive? You know, I mean,the kids complained? They do
they have to do this, you know,that's a manager shop. Where
does it say that? It's not themanager's job. And and I made it
very clear early on when Istarted coaching that, you know,
there's there's kind of a insome teams and there was the
(28:01):
team that I took over this sortof, well, the younger players,
they carry the upperclassmen,you know, bags and stuff like
that. I want to play on thatteam. That didn't happen. It
didn't happen at all, you know,you're carrying your own bag,
you're carrying your own watersorted, so to speak. And just
because they're younger, doesn'tmean they're, they're
subservient to you. So I thinkyou know, from that respect,
(28:24):
yeah, you've really got a,you're not always gonna win.
And, and, and winnings notimportant. And what you said,
it's kind of like, well, Iforget the quote, but it's
basically something like, I maynot have won, I may have lost,
but I also learned, I've learnedsomething, learn something about
me, my team, you know, how weinteract, whatever it was. So I
(28:47):
didn't really lose even if thescoreboard we didn't win, I
either learn something, or, youknow, we we took something or we
did win, or we took somethingpositive with it. So there
wasn't a negative. I mean, therewere certainly some days where I
knew you didn't give me yourbest work. So there was there
was problems with that. And wedealt with that. And but I was
also a coach that told him rightoff the bat, I'm never going to
(29:09):
punish you. I'm never going tomake you run for mistakes,
except for one thing. If I hearanybody say, I can't, or we
can't, you're running. But youknow, you make a mistake. No
problem. We'll stop. We'llcorrect it. We'll try to improve
on I'm not going to make yourrun because you made a mistake.
I don't want you to be Oh, if Ido this, I make a mistake. Coach
(29:32):
is gonna make us wrong. I don'twant you to have that kind of
attitude. As a player I want youto Okay, I'm gonna go try this.
Oh, I miss I made a mistake.
Okay, let's correct it. What didyou do wrong? Let's correct
that. Let's move on. But youtell me you can't do something
or we can do something as ateam. Yeah, you're gonna run cuz
that to me, that was thecardinal sin. What do you mean
you can't, maybe you can't rightnow, but if you work at it, you
(29:53):
can eventually
LTP (29:58):
I like that. I'm a big believer in that I don't really
believe in in limitations or mymy personal mantra is every day
is an opportunity for victory.
Sometimes we just have toredefine what victory looks like
to make sure we win.
Terry Tucker (30:11):
You're right.
You're absolutely right. And andand you know this, I mean, you
have some life experience. Andyou've, you know, you've been on
the winning end and the losingend. And you've you've it sounds
like learned from both of those.
LTP (30:23):
Yeah, I think so. You know, when we talk about in the
operating room, we say, goodjudgment comes from experience
and experience comes from badjudgment. That that's how you
have to learn sometimes.
Terry Tucker (30:35):
Yeah. I mean, I was talking to a friend of mine
the other day was a navy seal.
And he was talking about formerNavy SEAL, he was talking about
working with his church onsecurity, and how people, you
know, that they get, they getgoing so fast, that they end up
making mistakes, he said, youknow, we were just practicing,
but they could go in so fast,they wouldn't slow down. They
(30:56):
didn't, I'm shooting each otherand things like I mean,
obviously, in a controlledscenario, and you know, it's I
remember, as a police officer,it was always smooth is fast,
you know, don't try to do morethan you can right now smooth is
fast, slow down, figure outwhat's going on, and then move
on. And I think that was a goodlesson that I learned fairly
(31:17):
early on as a police officer.
LTP (31:20):
I agree completely. And we say the same thing. Slow is
smooth and smooth is fast. Butyou can tell. And that's one
thing when you're looking atsomeone if they're doing
something and they look likethey're going fast, they're
going too fast. Yeah, because itlooks easy when you're doing it
right.
Terry Tucker (31:34):
Right. It's smooth. You're right. You're
right. Exactly. Yeah.
LTP (31:38):
So do you feel like you the things that you've dealt with
over the last about 10 yearshave been life altering in every
way? Do you feel like theymagnified your personality and
your philosophy or do you feellike it changed? Going through
the things that you did?
Terry Tucker (31:55):
I think it magnified it. You know, there's
a I kind of like to tell thestory. So I've always been a big
fan of westerns growing up, mymom and dad used to let me to
watch Gunsmoke and you know, BigValley, and for my favorite was
wild wild west and my parentswould let me stay up when I was
(32:15):
a little kid and watch that. Andin 1993, the movie tombstone
came out and It starred KurtRussell as Wyatt Earp, and Val
Kilmer as John "Doc" Holiday.
Now, Wyatt Earp and Doc were twoliving breathing human beings
that walked on the face of theearth. They were not made up
characters for the movie. But atthe very end of this movie, the
Doc Holliday who they call themDoc, because he was a dentist,
(32:38):
but for the most part, he was agunslinger and a card shark. And
the fact that he developed avery close friendship with Wyatt
Earp, who pretty much been a lawman his entire life. What was
pretty interesting but but atthe very end of the movie doc is
dying at a sanitarium oftuberculosis in Glenwood
Springs, Colorado, and DocHolliday did die in that
(32:59):
sanitarium, and he's buried inthe Glenwood Springs, Colorado
cemetery. And so Wyatt, at thispoint, his life is destitute, he
has no money has no job, he hasno prospects for a job. So every
day comes to visit Doc, and thetwo men play cards to pass the
time. And in this scene there,they're talking about what they
want out of life. And, and Docsays I was in love with my
(33:20):
cousin when I was younger, butshe joined a convent over the
affair and she was she was allthat I ever wanted. And he looks
at Wyatt. And he says, whatabout you what what do you want,
and Wyatt kind of nonchalantlysays, I just want to lead a
normal life. And Doc looks athim and says, "There's no
normal, there's just life. Andget on with living yours." You
(33:41):
know what I like to not havecancer, oh, my God, you have no
idea what I would give not notto have gone through this
journey or not put my familythrough this journey. But these
are the cards that I've beendealt. So I'm going to have to
play them and and obviously, I'mgoing to play them based on my
personality, my background, youknow, what I believe in my heart
and things like that. And, and Ido, and I, I it's like I told
(34:04):
you before, I will never quitthis clinical trial, they may
take me off of it, or I may dieon it. But I'll never quit. I've
never quit anything in my life.
I don't know how to quit, I justI'm one of those idiots that
keeps hitting his head againstthe you know, the wall finger
and well, eventually I'll breakthrough here. You know, and, and
(34:25):
I, I don't know if that'snecessarily smart. But it's just
the way that I'm wired. And Iwant people to realize that
there's nothing out there thatyou're going to face. And I
realize fear is a great thing.
Fear is a great motivator. Iremember as a police officer,
you know, my partner and I maybe going to a simple like noise
run, you know, neighbors consomebody turned down their
(34:46):
television set and either mypartner and I'd be like, you
know, I've got a bad feelingabout this run. And and we would
be like we got to respect that.
We've got to respect thatfeeling and not be tied to noise
run. It's not No big deal. Wehave to respect that then we're
gonna be extra safe where youknow where we park where how we
go into the building and thingslike that. So you know that,
(35:08):
that that intuition that, youknow, conscience, whatever you
want to call it, that's therefor a reason. And I think more
people have been saved by fear,you know, people used to ask me
as a copy, you know, are youafraid? Are you ever afraid? I'm
like any cabinet tells youthey're not afraid is either
lying to you or they're stupid.
You know, fear can save yourlife fear can heighten your
(35:29):
senses. And, and, and I'd belying to you, if I told you that
I wasn't afraid when I had myfoot amputated, or I had my leg
amputated and stuff like that.
And I had my leg amputated inthe middle of a global pandemic
might you know, my wife droppedme off here, go in the hospital,
have your leg cut off. You know,the the therapists were there.
You need to be here for a week,my surgeon was like, you're
(35:52):
gonna be here for 48 hours. Havethem teach you everything you
can in 48 hours. And and then Iwas out. And you know, I look at
that was I scared to death? Butthat's what you do with things
that scare you pony up. And youknow what I'm gonna do the best
I can and leave the rest inGod's hands.
LTP (36:11):
Absolutely, I can't even imagine. I mean, I got some
medical care during the pandemicas well. And we've dealt with,
you know, we have family membersgoing through stuff. And as a
hospital employee, although I'mnot in a clinical job right now.
It's crazy how different it is.
So I can only imagine howchallenging that would be to go
through something as emotionallytraumatic and have to get
(36:32):
through that. And your points onfear are well taken. There's a
great book called The Gift ofFear by Gavin de Becker. And it
talks about, I love it. It's itbecause it's really interesting
in like trusting yourself andrecognizing it's not necessarily
sometimes it is a hunch. Butsometimes it's just your
subconscious picking up on allthese cues that you could never
put your finger on. And trustingyourself. And I love that I love
(36:52):
that. That mindset.
Terry Tucker (36:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think you have to have it law
enforcement, you know. And I andthe the individual published my
book is starting a podcast, andwe were talking the other day
and, and he's like, I'm kind ofnervous. He said, You know, I,
what are you nervous about? Yousaid, interviewing people. I
said, you you were a cop for 25years. You people every day, and
(37:17):
those people wanted to kill you.
You know, now you'reinterviewing people who don't
want to kill you want to sharetheir thoughts and their
feelings with you? I don't knowwhy you're nervous. I mean, but
he was and he is and that Imean, he'll obviously get over
it now. But, you know, he'slike, I'm just really nervous
about this. And like, well, it'sall it's all kind of what how
the, the perspective that youput on it. You know, think about
you spent your whole lifeinterviewing people, this should
(37:38):
be a piece of cake for you.
LTP (37:41):
Absolutely. And and my podcast last week was about
imposter syndrome, you mightwant to listen to that. So,
final question. You kind ofalluded to it a little bit. But
if you had someone in front ofyou, your daughter, your
daughter, you know knows whatyou think but one of her friends
(38:02):
who's looking at their life outin front of them and trying to
figure out what to do and itseems insurmountable--the
obstacles ahead of them. Whatwould you tell somebody?
Unknown (38:11):
So I'm gonna, let me kind of put it in this
perspective. My purpose at thispoint in my life with whatever
time I have left, has been tohelp people find their purpose
or their why or their passion inlife. And I recall a quote from
Mark Twain who said that the twomost important days of our lives
(38:32):
are the day we're born. And theday we figure out why. And when
I speak to groups, a lot oftimes, I'll ask them, Do you
have any idea why you were puton this earth? And sometimes
we'll even take it a stepfurther and say, you know, do
you know why you were born atthis time? Why weren't you born
5000 years ago, or, or 50,000years in the future, there's a
reason that you were born. Andthat reason involves finding and
(38:55):
living your purpose. Ipersonally believe that we're
all destined to live uncommonand extraordinary lives. And
that has nothing to do with whatkind of job we have, how much
money we make, what kind of carwe drive, where we live, etc. We
are not all born with the samegifts and talents. But we all
have the ability to become thebest person that we're capable
(39:17):
becoming. The problem is, isthat most people take an
unintentional approach to livingand by living a casual life,
their dreams, their goals, theirambitions, they become a
casualty of that unplannedliving. I mean, during the eight
years, or I guess, almost nineyears now that I've been
battling cancer, I've had plentyof time to think about my own
(39:38):
death. And after I die, I can'timagine standing in the presence
of our Creator, whoever,whatever you believe that entity
to be, and being unable toaccount for the gifts and the
talents that I was born with,and that I didn't use to make
the world a better place. Youknow, during my life and being a
police officer and serving thenumber of people I've met while
(39:58):
I've had cancer. You know, I'veseen many people die. And it's
been my experience that thepeople who die what you and I
would probably call peacefuldeaths are those people who
utilize their time on this earthto find and live their purpose.
On the other hand, the peoplewho go kicking and screaming
from this world, you know, whowant another day or another
(40:19):
month or whatever, those peoplenever did anything with their
lives, they never saw theurgency of living their uncommon
and extraordinary purpose. Theynever took a chance on their
dreams. They never took the timeto figure out who they were, why
they were here, and what theywere supposed to do with their
lives. It's been said that thewealthiest places on earth are
(40:39):
cemeteries, because they'reareas rich and businesses never
started. Books, never writtenrelationships never pursued, and
dreams never realized. There's aNative American Blackfoot saying
that I that I absolutely loveand, and it goes like this. It
says, when you were born, youcried and the world rejoiced.
Live your life in such a way sothat when you die, the world
(41:03):
cries, and you rejoice. The onlyway to find your purpose is to
search it out to try things thatmake you uncomfortable to fight
against the status quo, toexperience things that scare
you. Finding your why or yourpurpose or your passion is
important, because it's thereason you were born. And the
only way to discover that reasonis to be open to it and search
(41:25):
for it with your heart.
LTP (41:30):
That's amazing. I'm glad asked the question, because y
u had a great answer for it
Unknown (41:37):
You're welcome.
LTP (41:43):
So that's our discussion with Terry Tucker. I hope you
guys enjoyed it. I know that Ireally did. I learned a ton he
and he was a pleasure to speakwith. If you'd like to learn
more about Mr. Tucker and hisbook, which is Sustainable
Excellence. It's available atBarnes and Noble, Amazon and
anyplace you buy books, or checkout his website at www.mot
vationalcheck.com. You can learmore about him. If you have
(42:05):
questions for him, please lete know because I'd love to have
him back. And if there's anyting that we could do bett
r, please share that with us awww.levelthepursuit.co
. This week, no big challenge.
Just spend a little bit of timbeing grateful for all the go
d things in your life. It ivery easy to get bogged dow
on the badness. But we all doave blessings. We all do have so
ething that we can be grateful fr. So take a little time this
(42:29):
eek to be grateful because evry good day is a blessing.
hanks again for joining leel the pursuit. Well, we can't c
oose where we start, we can chose our dreams and how we pursue
hem. Remember, success isa team sport and there's ro
m for all of us to achieve ougoals. So be a good leader. Be
a good follower. And Do Somethng Great
In the race to success, we're not all starting from the
same place. Level the Pursuitseeks to fill in the gaps and
provide accessible bite sizedleadership lessons for anyone
looking to improve their skillsand prepare for the next step,
whatever that might be. Welcomeback my friends. You know, it's
up to us what we do withwhatever life gives us sometimes
(00:25):
we get opportunities andbenefits and amazing talents.
And sometimes we get one hurdleafter another. But how we
respond is completely up to us.
Our guest today is Mr. TerryTucker. And besides the fact
that he played basketball at theCitadel, he was a cop, he
crushed corporate America. He'salso been fighting cancer for
the last 10 years. And insteadof letting that derail all of
(00:48):
the wonderful things in hislife, he turned that into an
opportunity to inspire others.
He is the author of "Sustainableexcellence," which is available
at Barnes and Noble and onlineat all of your ebook retailers.
And he has a website calledwww.motivationalcheck.com. So
today, we're going to talk tohim about his experiences and
(01:10):
learn a little bit more aboutthe great things that he's
doing. So, Terry, welcome, I amso grateful to have you here,
you have a lot of amazingexperiences. And I think that
your perspectives are reallygoing to add a lot to my
listeners and give them somecool experiences to build on as
(01:31):
they try to move forward ontheir journey and overcome the
obstacles in their past. So aswe start out, can you just tell
us a little bit about yourselfand the things that make you who
you are?
Terry Tucker (01:41):
Sure. Thanks for having me on, man. I really
appreciate this. And I'm lookingforward to the conversation. A
little bit about me. So I wasborn and raised in Chicago, I'm
the oldest of three boys. I'msix foot eight, and I played
college basketball at theCitadel. I have a brother who's
six foot seven, who was apitcher for the University of
Notre Dame. And then my middlebrother is six foot six and he
(02:04):
was drafted by the ClevelandCavaliers in the National
Basketball Association back in1983. And then my dad was six,
five. So if you sat behind ourfamily and church growing up,
there wasn't a prayers chanceyou were going to see anything
that was going on whatsoever. Mymom was five, eight, but you
know, she pretty much was theboss of all of us. It really
(02:25):
didn't matter how tall we werehow big we were mom ruled the
roost. athletics, specificallybasketball has been an important
part of my life growing up andas I said, I attended the
Citadel in Charleston, SouthCarolina, on a basketball
scholarship despite having threeknee surgeries in high school.
When I graduated from college, Imoved home to find a job. I was
the first person in my family tograduate from college and I was
(02:48):
all set to make my mark on theworld with my newly obtained
Business Administration degree.
And I look back now and realizewhat a knucklehead I was. I
didn't know anything aboutbusiness back then. Fortunately,
I was able to find that firstjob, I got a job in the in the
corporate office to corporateheadquarters of Wendy's
International, the hamburgerchain. But unfortunately, I
ended up living with my parentsfor the next three and a half
(03:09):
years as I helped my mother carefor my grandmother and my
father, who were both dying ofdifferent forms of cancer. My
wife and I've been married for27 years, we have one child, the
daughter, who's a graduate ofthe United States Air Force
Academy, and is a lieutenant inthe newly formed space force.
LTP (03:26):
It's so exciting.
Terry Tucker (03:27):
Yeah, it really is it and it's fun to understand
your connection with the AirForce and that and, and so it's,
it's this is I'm really lookingforward to that. So in a
nutshell, that's, that's prettymuch me.
LTP (03:39):
Fantastic. So we share a few things I trained in South
Carolina, and I'm also abasketball person I went to
college to play I did not end upplaying in college at that. It
just wasn't a good fit. But thatwas my love. And I still play
my, my bonus son is a prettygood basketball player. And
that's one of the things that weshare. It's one of the cool
things is we play together. So Ifeel you're on the role of
(04:01):
basketball in our lives. BecauseI love it.
Terry Tucker (04:03):
It's funny, because our daughter got my
height, she's six foot two, shewent to the to the Air Force
Academy, they recruited her toplay basketball, and then ended
up having knee surgery orfreshman year and kind of ended
that dream, but still was ableto get a great education. So
it's a little bit of a tradeoff. But she she's still you
know, she knocks it around alittle bit. Unfortunately, I'm
(04:24):
in a wheelchair, so I can't doas much anymore. But she still
loves the game. And I do is justas you do.
LTP (04:32):
So you mentioned that and so let's let's talk a little bit
about that. One of the thingsthat this podcast comes from is
an understanding that we're notall starting from the same
place. And the obstacles placedin our path are not all the
same. But at the end of the day,we don't we can only do our best
with what we're given. You'vehad some pretty big curveballs
(04:53):
thrown at you. How How have youapproached it and I'd love to
hear about that as much as youfeel comfortable but how have
you Use those curveballs to kindof build on that and and move
forward.
Terry Tucker (05:05):
Sure. So I, as you said, really kind of the biggest
challenge of my life began in2012 when I was diagnosed with a
rare form of melanoma thatpresented on the bottom of my
left foot, by the time thatcancer had been detected and
metastasize, or spread to alymph node in my groin, and
because my cancer was so rare,it was recommended that I be
(05:27):
treated at the world renowned MDAnderson Cancer Center in
Houston. I want your audience tounderstand that. What I'm going
to describe was what Iexperienced during my cancer
journey, I realized, and youknow this, there are 1000s and
1000s of people out there thatare suffering terribly from
their diseases, whether they bemental or physical, and I make
(05:48):
no claims to have the marketcornered on suffering. But one
thing I've learned is thatsuffering is one of life's
greatest teachers. So at MDAnderson, I had two surgeries to
remove the tumor and all thelymph nodes in my groin, and I
had a skin graft to close thewound on the bottom of my foot.
And after I healed I was put ona weekly injection of a drug
(06:08):
called interferon to help keepthe disease from coming back.
For me, interferon was ahorrible, nasty, debilitating
drug. And I took those weeklyinjections for four years and
seven months before themedication became so toxic to my
body that ended up in theintensive care unit with a fever
of 108 degrees, which many timesisn't compatible with being
(06:31):
alive,
LTP (06:32):
right.
Terry Tucker (06:32):
While I was on interferon, it gave me severe
flu like symptoms for two tothree days after each injection.
I lost 50 pounds. During mytherapy, I used to joke with my
wife that I felt I was so skinnythat I could go hang gliding on
a Dorito you know, it's kind ofone of those things, but I was,
you know, I have flu symptoms, Iwas nauseous, I was fatigued, I
(06:53):
was chilled. Even my ability totaste food diminished, and my
body continually ate and thismisery went on for over 1660
days. One thing I've learnedduring all my payments suffering
is that you have two choices,you can succumb to the
debilitating discomfort andmisery, or you can learn to
embrace it, and use it to makeyou a stronger and better human
(07:16):
being. I chose the latter. But Iwant your listeners to
understand that there were daysI felt so poorly, it was so much
agony, I literally prayed todie, I just wanted out of this
life, I realized that pain anddiscomfort can beat you to your
knees and keep you there if youlet it. But I also came to
appreciate that I could use mypain and suffering to make me a
(07:39):
stronger and more determinedindividual. I have a posted note
here on my desk that I see everytime I'm sitting here. And it
has three sentences on it. AndI'd like to share those with you
and your audience. The first oneis you need to control your mind
or it will control you. Thesecond one is you need to
(07:59):
embrace your pain and sufferingand use it to make you a
stronger and more determinedindividual. And the third one is
as long as you don't quit, youcan never be defeated. So those
three things are, are reallykind of my, I guess for lack of
a better word truths. You know,they're they're the things that
guide me. They're the thingsthat motivate me, they're,
(08:20):
they're things that I'mcurrently on a clinical trial of
a drug that is just beaten me,just beat me up, to be honest
with you. I mean, I shake, Ithrow up, I do everything and I
had a nurse come in one day andsaid, you know, Terry, nobody
would think anything less if youif you stopped doing this
struck. I mean, it's it'skilling you. And I looked at her
(08:43):
and I said well, you don't knowme very well, but I will. I will
never stop taking this drug.
They may take me off theclinical trial or I may die, but
I'll never stop it. And you haveto understand that these three
truths are what pushed meforward so I just take that pain
and I turn it inside and I useit as fuel or energy to to just
make me stronger or tougher. Butplease understand I'm not
(09:08):
Superman, I mean I I hurt I cryI you know I feel lousy. I just
like everybody else. But it'swhat you do with it. You know,
do you say oh woe is me or youjust say you know what? Give me
more I can take it I'm gonna useit as fuel and burn it and make
me tougher.
LTP (09:27):
Absolutely. So that's another thing we share. So I had
cancer when I was in my 30s. AndI also got treatment at MD
Anderson and MD Anderson doesnot support the podcast in any
way but I also had a reallygreat care there. I was very
blessed to be taken care of. Andone of the things that I found
(09:47):
that what you just said reallyresonated with me is after my
second and I used to fly fromSouth Carolina to Texas, every
three months for for follow ups.
It was which is a lot. And oneof the times I think it was my
second follow up, for somereason, I was convinced it was
back, I was convinced. And sofor about two or three weeks
(10:07):
before my appointment, I wouldcome home from work. And I'm an
I was a doctor, mind you, I'm intraining. So I'm taking care of
patients all day. And I wouldcome home and I would sit on my
couch and stare at the wallwaiting, waiting for the
appointment, understanding thatI was going to get this
diagnosis and recurrence, thethe mortality associated with
recurrence was much, much higherthan my initial diagnosis. So I
(10:29):
knew if it came back, and I wasgoing to it was going to come
back and I was going to die fromit. I was convinced. And I went
to my appointment, and I wasfine. And I came back. And I
realized I had lived, I hadwasted three weeks being dead. I
was like, What if I can decideto be alive, or I can decide to
(10:52):
already be dead, I mean, mybody's going to do it's going to
do but what my mind decides todo. And so after that, I accept
that there are things that we wecan't control, and we may have
to deal with. But I'm not goingto waste a single day on
something I can't control. Andso what you said, I feel like,
we kind of came to the samepoint in a little bit different
way. But I really, reallyidentify with that.
Terry Tucker (11:16):
Yeah, it you know, if you think about your mind,
and you think about how youknow, your your mind knows your
fears, it knows yourvulnerabilities, and, and your
mind, your mind. I mean, we knowthat the mind or the brain
avoids pain, and seeks pleasure.
So to the brain, you know, thestatus quo is good, don't don't
(11:39):
mess with it, just just staythere. So anytime you want to
make a change, you know, thosefears those vulnerabilities kick
in, and all of a sudden, you'resitting there and you're like,
Oh my god, you know, I, I cuzI'm in the same boat right now
Tuesday, I have a CAT scan, Ihave learned through talking to
people that so far I am the onlyperson on this clinical trial
(12:01):
that is having a positiveresult. And including one person
that has died. And so I'msitting here thinking, well, if
you know, this cat scan,probably I'm going to end up in
the same boat that they are thatyou know, it's not going to be
successful. And, and and thetumors are going to grow and all
that kind of stuff. And and youknow, then you kind of take a
step back and say, Well, so whatwhat if they do? You know, it
(12:22):
doesn't it's not the end of theworld, the last CAT scan showed
a 15% reduction in the tumors.
So even if they grow, it's notthe end of the world, other
things can happen. There areother drugs out there that they
can combine with this clinicaltrial and move forward. So I'm
like, Yeah, okay, we're gonnahave a CAT scan, big deal. But
it's, I remember my dad who diedof cancer very early on in his
(12:44):
50s. And he used to talk aboutwaiting for the other shoe to
drop. And I'm like, yeah, youspent your whole life waiting
for something bad to happen.
Three and a half years ofwaiting for yourself to die. I'd
rather spend three and a halfyears living and you know, when
when the shoe drops, I guesslike I think I've told you
before, you know, whether I liveor whether I die is way above my
(13:04):
paygrade. I spent a lot of timeworrying about that or thinking
about that.
LTP (13:11):
No, I completely agree. So before you started, and actually
I think probably after a littlebit after the beginning of this
journey, you had a lot of reallyinteresting jobs besides the the
corporate stuff, you know, youdid the police department,
you've, you've been in a fewdifferent areas. So when you
think about the experiencesyou've had now and you think
(13:32):
about leaders you've worked withand situations you found
yourself. How do you see thesethings, changing how you view
leading people taking care ofpeople taking initiative in your
life, like where do you seethese things coming together.
Terry Tucker (13:46):
I've been fortunate that so when I was in
high school, I had three kneesurgeries and this was a time
before arthroscopic surgery wasavailable. Actually, the first
two were before arthroscopicsurgery. The third one was x
arthroscopic, so I have a largezipper scar on the outside of my
of my knee. And it was also atime my first surgery it was a
(14:09):
it was a cartilage very simplekind of thing, take cartilage
out no big deal, but the woundgot infected. And it was
surmised and I don't know ifthis is true, that scar tissue
didn't grow into that areabecause of the infection and the
fever and all that kind ofstuff. So when I'm playing
basketball, which is a verytough sport on your knees, I was
(14:30):
basically bone on bone you knowit with without having any
cushioning in there. So mysecond surgery was literally the
removal of 25 pieces of my bone,some of the largest pieces of
rice. And pretty much I was toldyour basketball playing days are
over and you might not walknormally again. And I was in a
cast from my hip to my ankle foran entire summer. You know, they
(14:53):
don't do that stuff anymore. Imean,
LTP (14:55):
no, we don't
Terry Tucker (14:57):
you know this. I remember going to the doctor,
and it was the doctor who didthe second surgery was the team
doctor for DePaul University,great guy, Bob Hamilton. And he,
he cut the cast off, examine theincision looked at my leg, which
literally looked like I justcome out of a concentration camp
(15:17):
from atrophy because I've usedit all summer, and handed me a
piece of paper with drawings andwords on it for my rehab at
home, there was no go tophysical therapy and all that
kind of just like good luck. Ihope you hope you work your
rehab out. And again, they don'tdo that stuff today, as you
know. So here I am faced withthe only thing I'd ever been
(15:39):
good at in my life up to thispoint in time, of course, I'm
only 15 years old wasbasketball. And now you're
telling me I can't do it? AndI'm like, yeah, watch me. And
that's really kind of the firsttime that I got that that
feeling in my mind that you knowwhat? You told me, I can't do
it. I'm going to do it. Youwatch me do it. And I did. You
know, I started working out andeventually, you know, I was able
(16:00):
to walk and walking lead tojogging and jogging, lead to
running, and I got back on thecourt. And I did get a
scholarship to play division onecollege basketball to sit at
all. But then you know, I go tothe Citadel, or here I am with
you know, and at the time I wasthere was an all male
institution. Very difficult,very tough. One of the
(16:21):
presidents who was there when Iwas there was a guy by the name
of James Stockdale who was amedal of honor winner. Yes, he
was just an incredible. I mean,the guy used to walk around
like, you know, why is it there?
air? I mean, that's the kind ofstuff that he thought, you know,
I mean, he was just so cerebraland so above, like me, I'm, you
know, some 18, 19, 20 year oldkid, I'm like, I there's air so
(16:44):
I can breathe, there's air soyou can blow up basketball. So
of course, why do you you knowwhy is there but he was. So I
got to see his leadership style.
And, and the the general man bythe name of Grimsley, who was in
the army was the president whenI graduated, and then I, I moved
to Wendy's. And I saw DaveThomas, who started Wendy's. And
(17:06):
I mean, the guy was adopted, hewas not articulate. He was not a
good looking man. But he, hetook all this, this is what I
want to do any formed at thetime, you know, a fortune 50
company. And then from there, Imoved to healthcare
administration where I think thebest leader I ever had the
opportunity to work under was awoman by the name of Nancy
(17:28):
schlichting, who was the theyoungest CEO of our hospital, we
were a large house, we were 1000beds and 5000 employees. And she
at 33 was, was the COO andeventually went on to run the
Henry Ford health systems inMichigan. And has I've stayed in
(17:49):
touch with her all these years,President Obama helped or asked
her to work on the VA hospital,kind of reboot and things like
that. She's She's done so manythings. But she was the kind of
woman that she was certainlypersecuted because she was gay.
And everybody knew it. And shedidn't hide it. And she was she
(18:10):
was persecuted, because therewere the hospitals run by a
bunch of white males. And, butshe has, she was the kind of
person that and I'm sure you'veexperienced this, and I know I'm
running on here, but I thinkit's important. She was the kind
of person that if you asked hera question, she wasn't going to
beat around the bush, she went,she was going to give you a
direct answer. And sometimesthat direct answer was no, you
(18:32):
know, I think we should do that.
Well, we're not going to dothat. But she would give you a
reason. And, and her heart ishuge. She actually, I went to
her to ask her for some coverquotes when I wrote my book and,
and how to read the book andstuff like that. And I the fact
that I've just get to sort ofhang around her coattails is
tremendous for me, so so I'vebeen very fortunate in my life,
(18:54):
to see people to see leadersthat were that were good that
were that were successful, thatcared about people. And I
remember and I'll end with this.
I remember when I was a youngman, and I was probably 14 years
old in eighth grade. And I was abig fan of john wooden who at
(19:14):
the time was probably thegreatest basketball coach. I
mean, his UCLA Bruins won sevenNCAA championships in a row. I
mean, that's, you're lucky ifyou can win to at this point in
that, but he had a definition ofsuccess that I've never found a
better one and this is what itwas. He said, success is peace
of mind, which is a directresult of self satisfaction in
(19:39):
knowing that you did the best tobecome the best that you're
capable becoming.
LTP (19:43):
I love that. So I'm a huge Wooden fan. Wooden on Leadership
is one of my favorite books.
It's one of my recommendationsto people for reading. And I
really annoyed my airman wouldtell them how John Wooden would
teach his young five starrecruits how to put on their
socks. And they'd get sofrustrated why I can score 40
(20:04):
points a game I don't need toknow how to put on my socks. But
starting with putting on yoursocks properly and putting on
your shoes properly goes to yourthree point stance properly. It
goes to everything about whatyou do. You start from the
foundations, you do it rightfrom the beginning, and then you
can you know, we have to crawlbefore we can walk before we can
run. And so I love I love johnwooden, I think he's a great
(20:26):
exemplar of, of what I thinkleadership should be.
Terry Tucker (20:31):
Oh, totally, totally. And I remember being my
eighth grade but banquetbasketball banquet was was in a
place called the WorthingtonInn. And it had been an old Pony
Express stop many, many, manyyears ago, and it was, you know,
wasn't a we were small Catholicschool and stuff like that. But
they had a little gift shopthere and, and I saw his book,
(20:53):
they call me coach, and I askedmy mom and dad to, you know,
could I buy it? And my mom anddad looked at me like, I was
nuts. Because like you want toread, you know, it's like you
play basketball. Yes, I want toread this book. And it had, you
know, maybe other than theBible, that book probably had
the biggest impact on my life,just listening to how he grew up
(21:13):
and his philosophy and, and BillWalton was kind of my hero
growing up, you know, play forhim. And I used to lay the
Sports Illustrated's out on thebed next to me, I had a twin
bed, and I would put every day Iwould put my practice uniform,
or my game uniform on those,those pictures of Walton, where
I was expecting some kind of,you know, magic that was gonna
(21:34):
be on my mind, I'm like, youknow what, I'm gonna do this,
and I'm going to have a greatpractice tomorrow, I'm gonna
have a great game, that, youknow, that was something
positive for me. And I look backon that, that was really the
first time that I was kind ofusing my mind to make my body be
successful. So it just kind ofinteresting stories.
LTP (21:53):
That's fantastic, though, as a kid, you came up with, you
know, positive visualization,you had some associations.
Terry Tucker (22:01):
That's exactly how I did it, I'm like, I don't
know, I just, I'm gonna lay thisout here and everything. I'm in
my shoes, my gym bag, everythingwent on top of it. And in the
morning, I pack it all up andoff. We go to school on that. So
yeah, it was pretty funny. And Iremember my youngest brother
came, came in one day, and hesat on one of the Sports
(22:21):
Illustrated room across Don'ttouch that you, you know, you'll
stop the Mojo or something likethat. So it was it was kind of
funny.
LTP (22:30):
That's fantastic. So you described between Admiral
Stockdale, and you know, Dave,I, his name just escaped me
from, Wendy's.
Terry Tucker (22:44):
Thomas.
LTP (22:45):
Yes, Thomas, thank you. But you talked about people that had
really difficult times, youknow, all of your mentors, all
the people, you just hadsomething in their life that
either was visibly differentabout them was culturally or
personally different, or theywent through some pretty
significant hurdles, like, youknow, Hanoi. There's some pretty
(23:06):
big things. Have you known anyleaders that you knew that you
thought were good that didn'thave to overcome something? Or
do you think that those thingskind of are inherent into
leadership is going throughsomething like that?
Terry Tucker (23:20):
I think they're inherent, I mean, I think you
have to, I mean, there are thereare a million courses, you and I
both know this or a millioncourses, a million books and all
that kind of stuff, and you canread them and I do read them.
I'm reading a great book nowcalled legacy, which is about
the the New Zealand nationalrugby team.
LTP (23:38):
Oh my gosh, so good.
Terry Tucker (23:40):
So it is it is and they are supposedly the greatest
sports team of all times in anysport. And, and they you talk
about, they talk about how they,they come up with, with
commitment and humility, like,you know, we don't have all the
answers. Were kind of figuringthis out as we go and things
like that. And so I read thesethings, and I get things out of
(24:00):
them. But I really think inorder to be successful, you've
got to experience life. Youcan't take it out of a book,
you've got to have somethingthat Hitchin, the harder, you
know, you're you're down andit's, it's you're tired. And I
was talking about people who,you know, you can if you give
your all and you and you lose onthe scoreboard, you're not a
(24:22):
loser. But if you don't giveyour all and you went on the
scoreboard, you're still loser,you know, yeah. And that was
kind of that was kind of coachWooden's philosophy. I never I
never worried about winning orthe score. I just worried about
us UCLA doing what we've beentaught to do. And if we do that,
and we're successful at it, itdoesn't matter what the score
(24:43):
is, we're going to besuccessful. And I think that
same principle applies to life.
You know, if you if you haveyour truths, if you know what
you believe in your heart andyour mind and you're willing to
go out there and put it outthere and you know, something
like, No, I don't agree withyou. Okay, that's fine. And I
think you see this in societytoday. I may not agree with you.
So I'm going to start screamingand yelling at you, we can't get
(25:06):
anything done. We're never goingto come together as a country,
if we're screaming at eachother, because I can't
understand what you're saying.
But if we can talk and dialogue,let me explain why I am the way
I am. Please explain to me whyyou are the way you are. And I
put a chapter in my book aboutthe importance of listening, and
(25:27):
not listening to respond, butlistening to understand and how
important that is, and how wedon't do that. You know, I want
to hurry up when you say, Okay,now I'm going to tell you what I
think, no, let me understandwhere you're coming from, and
why you're saying what you'resaying. And if I can do that,
then we can get a whole lotaccomplished. But to answer your
question, I think you've got toexperience life, you've got to
(25:49):
have some ups and downs in orderto be a good leader.
LTP (25:53):
So you said something in there that I think it really hit
me because I can think of timeswhere I didn't, from the
outside, when, you know, I didmy best I did what I was
supposed to do. And the outcomewas not what I was hoping for.
And more than once I've hadsomething positive come out of
that, or someone saw me andsaid, I really liked the way you
(26:14):
handled this, or I know thatyou're free now because this
project didn't work. I haveavailability, and where
something great happened,because of how I was able to
conduct myself in losing. Andsomeone saw it. And have you
have you seen stuff like that?
Have you seen opportunities comeout of having something maybe
sound like a setback or feellike a setback when it happens?
Terry Tucker (26:37):
I have and I went when I was coaching one of the
things I did I coached girlshigh school basketball, when I
was in Houston and, and I was Iwas kind of like wooden I was a
stickler for the small things,the little things, and I used to
make the players. You know,after the game was over, I used
to make our players clean up ourbench. So you know, if there's
(26:59):
cups laying around, put them ina garbage can, you know, if
there's tape laying around, putit in the garbage can and things
like that we're not going toleave this bench a mess. So that
the you know, the boys varsityplayed after us. So they have to
come on the bench and they haveto clean up. So we were did and
I remember, it was just I feltthat was important. I wanted
them to realize that, you know,yeah, this has got to get
(27:20):
cleaned out. Why are you goingto leave it for a manager? What
what makes the manager lessimportant than you as a player.
And I remember I had a refereecome up to me, and he's like, to
coach men. I've never seen thatbefore. I've never seen a coach
make his players police thebench. And and he said, You
know, that's that's prettyimpressive that that made a mark
(27:40):
on him that that had a positiveaspect on him. Now, did it have
a positive? You know, I mean,the kids complained? They do
they have to do this, you know,that's a manager shop. Where
does it say that? It's not themanager's job. And and I made it
very clear early on when Istarted coaching that, you know,
there's there's kind of a insome teams and there was the
(28:01):
team that I took over this sortof, well, the younger players,
they carry the upperclassmen,you know, bags and stuff like
that. I want to play on thatteam. That didn't happen. It
didn't happen at all, you know,you're carrying your own bag,
you're carrying your own watersorted, so to speak. And just
because they're younger, doesn'tmean they're, they're
subservient to you. So I thinkyou know, from that respect,
(28:24):
yeah, you've really got a,you're not always gonna win.
And, and, and winnings notimportant. And what you said,
it's kind of like, well, Iforget the quote, but it's
basically something like, I maynot have won, I may have lost,
but I also learned, I've learnedsomething, learn something about
me, my team, you know, how weinteract, whatever it was. So I
(28:47):
didn't really lose even if thescoreboard we didn't win, I
either learn something, or, youknow, we we took something or we
did win, or we took somethingpositive with it. So there
wasn't a negative. I mean, therewere certainly some days where I
knew you didn't give me yourbest work. So there was there
was problems with that. And wedealt with that. And but I was
also a coach that told him rightoff the bat, I'm never going to
(29:09):
punish you. I'm never going tomake you run for mistakes,
except for one thing. If I hearanybody say, I can't, or we
can't, you're running. But youknow, you make a mistake. No
problem. We'll stop. We'llcorrect it. We'll try to improve
on I'm not going to make yourrun because you made a mistake.
I don't want you to be Oh, if Ido this, I make a mistake. Coach
(29:32):
is gonna make us wrong. I don'twant you to have that kind of
attitude. As a player I want youto Okay, I'm gonna go try this.
Oh, I miss I made a mistake.
Okay, let's correct it. What didyou do wrong? Let's correct
that. Let's move on. But youtell me you can't do something
or we can do something as ateam. Yeah, you're gonna run cuz
that to me, that was thecardinal sin. What do you mean
you can't, maybe you can't rightnow, but if you work at it, you
(29:53):
can eventually
LTP (29:58):
I like that. I'm a big believer in that I don't really
believe in in limitations or mymy personal mantra is every day
is an opportunity for victory.
Sometimes we just have toredefine what victory looks like
to make sure we win.
Terry Tucker (30:11):
You're right.
You're absolutely right. And andand you know this, I mean, you
have some life experience. Andyou've, you know, you've been on
the winning end and the losingend. And you've you've it sounds
like learned from both of those.
LTP (30:23):
Yeah, I think so. You know, when we talk about in the
operating room, we say, goodjudgment comes from experience
and experience comes from badjudgment. That that's how you
have to learn sometimes.
Terry Tucker (30:35):
Yeah. I mean, I was talking to a friend of mine
the other day was a navy seal.
And he was talking about formerNavy SEAL, he was talking about
working with his church onsecurity, and how people, you
know, that they get, they getgoing so fast, that they end up
making mistakes, he said, youknow, we were just practicing,
but they could go in so fast,they wouldn't slow down. They
(30:56):
didn't, I'm shooting each otherand things like I mean,
obviously, in a controlledscenario, and you know, it's I
remember, as a police officer,it was always smooth is fast,
you know, don't try to do morethan you can right now smooth is
fast, slow down, figure outwhat's going on, and then move
on. And I think that was a goodlesson that I learned fairly
(31:17):
early on as a police officer.
LTP (31:20):
I agree completely. And we say the same thing. Slow is
smooth and smooth is fast. Butyou can tell. And that's one
thing when you're looking atsomeone if they're doing
something and they look likethey're going fast, they're
going too fast. Yeah, because itlooks easy when you're doing it
right.
Terry Tucker (31:34):
Right. It's smooth. You're right. You're
right. Exactly. Yeah.
LTP (31:38):
So do you feel like you the things that you've dealt with
over the last about 10 yearshave been life altering in every
way? Do you feel like theymagnified your personality and
your philosophy or do you feellike it changed? Going through
the things that you did?
Terry Tucker (31:55):
I think it magnified it. You know, there's
a I kind of like to tell thestory. So I've always been a big
fan of westerns growing up, mymom and dad used to let me to
watch Gunsmoke and you know, BigValley, and for my favorite was
wild wild west and my parentswould let me stay up when I was
(32:15):
a little kid and watch that. Andin 1993, the movie tombstone
came out and It starred KurtRussell as Wyatt Earp, and Val
Kilmer as John "Doc" Holiday.
Now, Wyatt Earp and Doc were twoliving breathing human beings
that walked on the face of theearth. They were not made up
characters for the movie. But atthe very end of this movie, the
Doc Holliday who they call themDoc, because he was a dentist,
(32:38):
but for the most part, he was agunslinger and a card shark. And
the fact that he developed avery close friendship with Wyatt
Earp, who pretty much been a lawman his entire life. What was
pretty interesting but but atthe very end of the movie doc is
dying at a sanitarium oftuberculosis in Glenwood
Springs, Colorado, and DocHolliday did die in that
(32:59):
sanitarium, and he's buried inthe Glenwood Springs, Colorado
cemetery. And so Wyatt, at thispoint, his life is destitute, he
has no money has no job, he hasno prospects for a job. So every
day comes to visit Doc, and thetwo men play cards to pass the
time. And in this scene there,they're talking about what they
want out of life. And, and Docsays I was in love with my
(33:20):
cousin when I was younger, butshe joined a convent over the
affair and she was she was allthat I ever wanted. And he looks
at Wyatt. And he says, whatabout you what what do you want,
and Wyatt kind of nonchalantlysays, I just want to lead a
normal life. And Doc looks athim and says, "There's no
normal, there's just life. Andget on with living yours." You
(33:41):
know what I like to not havecancer, oh, my God, you have no
idea what I would give not notto have gone through this
journey or not put my familythrough this journey. But these
are the cards that I've beendealt. So I'm going to have to
play them and and obviously, I'mgoing to play them based on my
personality, my background, youknow, what I believe in my heart
and things like that. And, and Ido, and I, I it's like I told
(34:04):
you before, I will never quitthis clinical trial, they may
take me off of it, or I may dieon it. But I'll never quit. I've
never quit anything in my life.
I don't know how to quit, I justI'm one of those idiots that
keeps hitting his head againstthe you know, the wall finger
and well, eventually I'll breakthrough here. You know, and, and
(34:25):
I, I don't know if that'snecessarily smart. But it's just
the way that I'm wired. And Iwant people to realize that
there's nothing out there thatyou're going to face. And I
realize fear is a great thing.
Fear is a great motivator. Iremember as a police officer,
you know, my partner and I maybe going to a simple like noise
run, you know, neighbors consomebody turned down their
(34:46):
television set and either mypartner and I'd be like, you
know, I've got a bad feelingabout this run. And and we would
be like we got to respect that.
We've got to respect thatfeeling and not be tied to noise
run. It's not No big deal. Wehave to respect that then we're
gonna be extra safe where youknow where we park where how we
go into the building and thingslike that. So you know that,
(35:08):
that that intuition that, youknow, conscience, whatever you
want to call it, that's therefor a reason. And I think more
people have been saved by fear,you know, people used to ask me
as a copy, you know, are youafraid? Are you ever afraid? I'm
like any cabinet tells youthey're not afraid is either
lying to you or they're stupid.
You know, fear can save yourlife fear can heighten your
(35:29):
senses. And, and, and I'd belying to you, if I told you that
I wasn't afraid when I had myfoot amputated, or I had my leg
amputated and stuff like that.
And I had my leg amputated inthe middle of a global pandemic
might you know, my wife droppedme off here, go in the hospital,
have your leg cut off. You know,the the therapists were there.
You need to be here for a week,my surgeon was like, you're
(35:52):
gonna be here for 48 hours. Havethem teach you everything you
can in 48 hours. And and then Iwas out. And you know, I look at
that was I scared to death? Butthat's what you do with things
that scare you pony up. And youknow what I'm gonna do the best
I can and leave the rest inGod's hands.
LTP (36:11):
Absolutely, I can't even imagine. I mean, I got some
medical care during the pandemicas well. And we've dealt with,
you know, we have family membersgoing through stuff. And as a
hospital employee, although I'mnot in a clinical job right now.
It's crazy how different it is.
So I can only imagine howchallenging that would be to go
through something as emotionallytraumatic and have to get
(36:32):
through that. And your points onfear are well taken. There's a
great book called The Gift ofFear by Gavin de Becker. And it
talks about, I love it. It's itbecause it's really interesting
in like trusting yourself andrecognizing it's not necessarily
sometimes it is a hunch. Butsometimes it's just your
subconscious picking up on allthese cues that you could never
put your finger on. And trustingyourself. And I love that I love
(36:52):
that. That mindset.
Terry Tucker (36:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think you have to have it law
enforcement, you know. And I andthe the individual published my
book is starting a podcast, andwe were talking the other day
and, and he's like, I'm kind ofnervous. He said, You know, I,
what are you nervous about? Yousaid, interviewing people. I
said, you you were a cop for 25years. You people every day, and
(37:17):
those people wanted to kill you.
You know, now you'reinterviewing people who don't
want to kill you want to sharetheir thoughts and their
feelings with you? I don't knowwhy you're nervous. I mean, but
he was and he is and that Imean, he'll obviously get over
it now. But, you know, he'slike, I'm just really nervous
about this. And like, well, it'sall it's all kind of what how
the, the perspective that youput on it. You know, think about
you spent your whole lifeinterviewing people, this should
(37:38):
be a piece of cake for you.
LTP (37:41):
Absolutely. And and my podcast last week was about
imposter syndrome, you mightwant to listen to that. So,
final question. You kind ofalluded to it a little bit. But
if you had someone in front ofyou, your daughter, your
daughter, you know knows whatyou think but one of her friends
(38:02):
who's looking at their life outin front of them and trying to
figure out what to do and itseems insurmountable--the
obstacles ahead of them. Whatwould you tell somebody?
Unknown (38:11):
So I'm gonna, let me kind of put it in this
perspective. My purpose at thispoint in my life with whatever
time I have left, has been tohelp people find their purpose
or their why or their passion inlife. And I recall a quote from
Mark Twain who said that the twomost important days of our lives
(38:32):
are the day we're born. And theday we figure out why. And when
I speak to groups, a lot oftimes, I'll ask them, Do you
have any idea why you were puton this earth? And sometimes
we'll even take it a stepfurther and say, you know, do
you know why you were born atthis time? Why weren't you born
5000 years ago, or, or 50,000years in the future, there's a
reason that you were born. Andthat reason involves finding and
(38:55):
living your purpose. Ipersonally believe that we're
all destined to live uncommonand extraordinary lives. And
that has nothing to do with whatkind of job we have, how much
money we make, what kind of carwe drive, where we live, etc. We
are not all born with the samegifts and talents. But we all
have the ability to become thebest person that we're capable
(39:17):
becoming. The problem is, isthat most people take an
unintentional approach to livingand by living a casual life,
their dreams, their goals, theirambitions, they become a
casualty of that unplannedliving. I mean, during the eight
years, or I guess, almost nineyears now that I've been
battling cancer, I've had plentyof time to think about my own
(39:38):
death. And after I die, I can'timagine standing in the presence
of our Creator, whoever,whatever you believe that entity
to be, and being unable toaccount for the gifts and the
talents that I was born with,and that I didn't use to make
the world a better place. Youknow, during my life and being a
police officer and serving thenumber of people I've met while
(39:58):
I've had cancer. You know, I'veseen many people die. And it's
been my experience that thepeople who die what you and I
would probably call peacefuldeaths are those people who
utilize their time on this earthto find and live their purpose.
On the other hand, the peoplewho go kicking and screaming
from this world, you know, whowant another day or another
(40:19):
month or whatever, those peoplenever did anything with their
lives, they never saw theurgency of living their uncommon
and extraordinary purpose. Theynever took a chance on their
dreams. They never took the timeto figure out who they were, why
they were here, and what theywere supposed to do with their
lives. It's been said that thewealthiest places on earth are
(40:39):
cemeteries, because they'reareas rich and businesses never
started. Books, never writtenrelationships never pursued, and
dreams never realized. There's aNative American Blackfoot saying
that I that I absolutely loveand, and it goes like this. It
says, when you were born, youcried and the world rejoiced.
Live your life in such a way sothat when you die, the world
(41:03):
cries, and you rejoice. The onlyway to find your purpose is to
search it out to try things thatmake you uncomfortable to fight
against the status quo, toexperience things that scare
you. Finding your why or yourpurpose or your passion is
important, because it's thereason you were born. And the
only way to discover that reasonis to be open to it and search
(41:25):
for it with your heart.
LTP (41:30):
That's amazing. I'm glad asked the question, because y
u had a great answer for it
Unknown (41:37):
You're welcome.
LTP (41:43):
So that's our discussion with Terry Tucker. I hope you
guys enjoyed it. I know that Ireally did. I learned a ton he
and he was a pleasure to speakwith. If you'd like to learn
more about Mr. Tucker and hisbook, which is Sustainable
Excellence. It's available atBarnes and Noble, Amazon and
anyplace you buy books, or checkout his website at www.mot
vationalcheck.com. You can learmore about him. If you have
(42:05):
questions for him, please lete know because I'd love to have
him back. And if there's anyting that we could do bett
r, please share that with us awww.levelthepursuit.co
. This week, no big challenge.
Just spend a little bit of timbeing grateful for all the go
d things in your life. It ivery easy to get bogged dow
on the badness. But we all doave blessings. We all do have so
ething that we can be grateful fr. So take a little time this
(42:29):
eek to be grateful because evry good day is a blessing.
hanks again for joining leel the pursuit. Well, we can't c
oose where we start, we can chose our dreams and how we pursue
hem. Remember, success isa team sport and there's ro
m for all of us to achieve ougoals. So be a good leader. Be
a good follower. And Do Somethng Great
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