Us vs Them

Who is your "us"? We're all part of groups that make us feel special and proud, but most of us also have experiences of being excluded from the group. Today we talk about in-groups and out-groups, why they matter, and how we can start to build a more inclusive society.    www.levelthepursuit.com

Episode Transcript

LTP (00:07):
In the race to success, we're not all starting from the
same place. Level the Pursuitseeks to fill in the gaps and
provide accessible bite sizedleadership lessons for anyone
looking to improve their skillsand prepare for the next step,
whatever that might be.
Welcome back, my friends, I hopethat you're having a fantastic
week. I personally have a rulethat I can't be in a bad mood on

(00:28):
a sunny day. So it is gorgeoushere in Montgomery, and I'm
having a great day. I hope youare too. So last week, we talked
to Dr. Stephanie Wilson, who isamazing. Hopefully you enjoyed
that interview. And I would loveto have her back. So if there's
something you'd like to hear ustalk about, please drop me a
note at info atlevelthepursuit.com and tell me
what you'd like to hear about.
So some of you know that I'vebeen doing some executive

(00:50):
coaching, I'm doing classes forthat. And it's really exciting.
And one of the things we've beentalking about was group dynamic.
And I've been thinking a lotabout that recently. So today, I
want to talk about us versusthem the in group and out group.
What does it mean? Why does itmatter? And what can we do to be
better citizens of the worldthat we live in?

(01:18):
So what do we mean by in group,you've probably heard this
before. Well, what is a group? Agroup is any conglomeration of
people that you feel part ofthat is important to you in that
moment, that you have somethingin common with. And you feel as
though there's an "us" to this,it can be a formal group, an

(01:39):
informal group, it can be whoyou are, it can be the place
that you're sitting on the bus,it there's no rhyme or reason to
when we decide to identify witha group. And there are a lot of
different circumstances that canmake us part of the group that
we're in. But part of what makesan in group is that we have a

(02:01):
sense of ownership to thisgroup, we feel as though there
are some positive attributesthat we have in common with
these people. And in conjunctionwith that, that means there's an
out group, there's a them. Wecan't really have an us without
them. And so as we look at howwe form these groups, we start
to create polarity, we start tocreate two sides of a coin,

(02:26):
which is not necessarily bad.
But in order for us to contrastthis, we have often will ascribe
positive and negative attributesto either of the groups. Now,
what this can lead to issomething called in group bias,
where we think the group thatwe're in is good, and the other
groups are bad. And a lot oftimes, this is based in certain

(02:46):
circumstances, certaincharacteristics, but it can be
globally, it can be very simple.
It can be our gender, ournationality, the state that we
live in the teams that we like,what color our hair is, what
color eyes are, or who's wearinga blue shirt today, there's so
many ways that we can createthis group. But as soon as you

(03:08):
create it, some people willidentify with it and identify
with it really, really strongly.
And then along with that,they'll begin to attribute
negative characteristics to allof the others.
Now one of the powerful thingsabout being in group is power.
So you don't have to necessarilybe the majority, if you have

(03:29):
more of the power, whichevergroup has control over a
situation, by rights generallybecomes the in group. And that
makes everyone else the outgroup. Everyone else is other.
Now one of the dangers of this,along with kind of the power
balance and how we behave, isthe idea that our group is

(03:52):
allowed to have distinguishingfeatures, we're allowed to be
different, where the out groupis all the same. They're
homogeneous, they don't have anydistinguishing characteristics
or anything that makes themunique. Now, these, again, can
be really big things like ourrace, or gender or nationality,
the language that we speak, butthey can be really small things.

(04:15):
If you're going to have a softdrink, what do you call it? Do
you call it soda? Or pop? Or inTexas, We say do you want to
coke? What kind? Now that seemsreally silly, but people get
really upset. People reallyidentify with their choices.
They'll make fun of people thatmake different choices. Now,
that's usually harmless, butit's not always. So we have to

(04:35):
think about that. Now. If you goto the grocery store, and you
stand in the line, Do youconsider yourself in a group
with the other people in theline? Probably not. Are you a
team? More than likely not. Butwhat if someone comes in and
cuts the line. Suddenly, you'veall brought been brought

(04:56):
together by the fact that youfollow the rules. And now you're
the in group in that person'sout group, it's amazing how
quickly that can start.
So where does all this comefrom? It starts with neural
patterns in our brains. And itstarts in infancy. As young
young children, we recognizefeatures in the faces around us,
the skin color, the voices, theaccents, the languages, and

(05:20):
those create patterns ofrecognition that make us feel
safe, they make us feel part ofsomething, that's a really good
thing as you're trying to buildcommunity. But those eventually
become reflexes. And so as weget older, if we're not exposed
to a lot of different things,those reflexes can become
actions. Now many of us areexposed to lots of different

(05:41):
people, lots of differentaccents, and skin colors and
voices and genders. And so overtime, we learn to immediately
snap to our cognitive resources,and have a rational thought or
rational opinion. But many of usstill will have reflexes on
something based on ourexperiences of the child,

(06:01):
there's nothing wrong with thatunless we choose not to do
something right with it, youhave to actually go past that
reflex, and recognize that it'snatural, it's okay. But we have
to explore those biases to makesure that we're doing the right
thing, and we're making rationaldecisions. Now, as we grow, if

(06:25):
we don't choose to do that, someof these biases can become
behaviors and some of thosebehaviors, when they are steeped
in a sense of superiority of ourown group can become
discrimination and becomepowerplays around people that
are not in our group, or that weperceive as not in our group.
Now, this comes from a goodplace though, evolutionarily

(06:46):
speaking, it helped us create asociety. That's how positive
relationships got started amongstrangers, there was something
called reciprocal altruism.
Basically, this is temporarilyreducing my capabilities in
order to support you, knowingthat sometime in the future,
you're going to do the same forme, enabled us to pool our
resources to pool our talents inorder to make sure that everyone

(07:09):
was supported when they neededit. And we didn't all have to
fend for ourselves all the time.
This is a positive thing for thegrowth of society. And it's a
shortcut to banding together.
You know, if a saber toothedtiger shows up, we're not going
to worry about a lot of things,we're going to band together and
become a team to fight thatenemy. But now, most of us are
not in danger of being eaten bya tiger. So some of these ways

(07:31):
that we banded together, haveactually created enemies where
maybe there aren't any. So as wethink about the in group and out
group, we have to think aboutour own role, and what exactly
we're protecting ourselves from.
Now, what difference does itmake. When we think about the in

(07:52):
group, we have something calledin group favoritism, basically,
we attribute all good intentionsto the people in our group, we
think they're all individualswith talents and skills. And if
there's anything good about ourgroup, then we think we all
share it. But if there'sanything bad about our group,
then that's just a one off,that's that person. That's not
me, I'm not like that. But onthe flip side of that, we think

(08:14):
of the out group as being all ofthe negatives, if there's a
negative characteristic, thenthey must all have it, it's not
a one off that one person has.
But if there's somethingpositive a policy they've made,
an opinion that they have that'sreally, really good that we
agree with, well, clearly,that's spurious. That's just one
person. That's not how thatactual group behave. So clearly,
I can't be part of that group.

(08:40):
This can actually be reallyproblematic as we grow, because
as I talked about, the in groupoften has the power in guide
society, and creates oursocietal norms. societal norms
are the way that we think thatthings should be done and said
and thought about. But the thingis, we all do things very
differently. So as we createthese norms. The next step is

(09:06):
saying that anyone who doesthings differently, thinks about
things differently, speaksdifferently, looks a different
way is wrong, or deviant, notnormal. And that's not a good
thing. Because our society, aswe know is so amazingly diverse.
Our country alone, I mean, theworld is obviously so much going

(09:26):
on. But our country alone, wehave so many different cultures
and perspectives and voices andlanguages even. And to say that
any one of them is right and therest are wrong is I mean, is
ludicrous. I can't even--there's not even words for how
much that doesn't make sense. Sowhy would we propagate that when

(09:46):
we talk about our norms, andagain, because the group with
the power gets to decide whatthe norms are, in most cases,
they may not be the majority. Somore and more people are being
placed into that "other"category, that out group
category, the then category. Sothe next step to this is

(10:11):
polarization. So anytime we havea group, the group will always
go further toward the dramatictoward the polar than any of the
individuals. So most of uswalking around are fairly
moderate in our views to someextent, many of us have
extremely polarizing of you, ora couple of views. But most of

(10:32):
us don't live in that far end ofthe spectrum all the time.
Obviously, some people do goodon you, that's amazing. But most
of us kind of function in thegray area most of the time. But
when you put us all together, agroup will tend to take on the
most polarizing views, the mostdramatic views the most, the
farthest away from the norm, orfrom excuse me from the middle.

(10:55):
What that does is not onlychange the group dynamics,
because it can push youobviously we see this in
politics that can push you sofar, one direction or the other.
But it also bolsters theargument of the other side will
look out. They're totallyirrational look at the views
that they have. They're so farout there, how can anyone think
that way. And I think a lot ofus as we've watched politics
over the last couple of yearshave felt that way, even have

(11:17):
your own political party, likewho's making these decisions,
because all of us are going tohave to live with this. And this
is really far out there. Now,that's not always bad. Sometimes
an enormous change is needed.
Sometimes a dramatic shift fromthe middle is needed in order to
make the right changes. But whenyou talk about group dynamics,
it makes it very, very hard tofind common ground when everyone

(11:39):
is looking from such a far endof the spectrum.
Now, looking at things from thisway, the in group and out group
and thinking of things, in acertain way, has a lot of
implications, how we look atourselves, and which in groups,

(12:00):
we think of whether it for me,as a woman, as a biracial
person, as a Texan as a Cowboysfan. As someone who plays
sports, as someone who's tall assomeone with big hair, like all
those things are different. Andon any given day, I may find
myself identifying with some ofthem more than others. Now we
talk about this some withrespect to intersectionality.

(12:22):
And that's people who aredealing with being part of
multiple underrepresented groupsin general. But that's a hard
balance. Because you have todecide which ones you identify
within a given time. And thatcan be a challenge for people.
But it can also change how welook at ourselves, which in

(12:42):
groups you choose to emphasizein your own life can make a
difference in how you seeyourself and how you interact
with the world. Robert Sapolsky,who wrote the book Behave, talks
about an experiment where he hadAsian women who were subjected
to a stereotype that Asians aregood at math, but women are not.

(13:05):
Then this group, half of themwere primed to think of
themselves as Asian primarily.
And the other half wereconditioned to think of
themselves as women primarily.
And then they took a math test.
And the ones that were primed tothink of themselves as Asian did
better on the test than the oneswho thought of themselves as
women, for their first go-to.

(13:28):
Now, what does that say aboutus? How we look at ourselves is
colored by the in group outgroup mentality, it's colored by
the stereotypes that are presentthat we internalize whether we
realize it or not. Now,obviously, all of these women
are capable of doing math, andall of them had opinions on
their Asian heritage. But justpushing them in a direction to

(13:52):
make them think of a stereotypein a positive or negative way,
affected their performance. Sothink about how you think of
your own groups and the thingsyou identify with each day. How
does that affect you, when yougo into a situation, especially
one where you think whichevergroup is primary for you, is
viewed as a "them."You know, being part of the
group can be really fun. It canbe fun to think of yourself as

(14:17):
cool, it can be fun to be awinner. Being part of the out
group is usually not. It'susually not fun to be on the
outside. It's not fun to bedifferent. Sometimes it is. And
there are some people thatabsolutely flourish in that
role. But for many of us,especially if you think back to
seventh grade, and being one ofthe cool kids or not, it can be

(14:38):
really difficult. And there'sbeen some very elegant studies
over the years that prove this.
If you think about Jane Elliott,a class divided experiment were
in 1968, the day after MartinLuther King Jr. was
assassinated. She divided herclass into blue eyed children
and brown eyed children. And oneday the blue eyed children were

(14:58):
the good kids and they got To dowhatever they wanted. And the
other day, the brown eyedchildren, same thing. And what
she found was that the childrenthat were in the in the group
behaved superior, they look downon the other children. And the
flip side also happened, no oneenjoyed being on the bottom half
of it. But very few of them wereable to rise above that, and not

(15:22):
see themselves as superior whenthey were in the in group. And
then you look at the classicPrison Experiment, where college
students were placed as guardsand prisoners, and they
absolutely, in a very shortamount of time, lives into those
roles, such that the experimenthad to be terminated to prevent
physical and psychologicaldamage to the students, because

(15:43):
people identified so stronglywith those roles, the "us
against them" was so powerful.
So what can we do about it?
Well, the first thing is torecognize the groups that you're
in, that you identify with. Andthere might be some that you
don't even think about, that areso natural and intuitive that
you don't you don't even putwords to them on a daily basis,

(16:03):
but others you're probably proudof, and others still that proud
or not, you have to deal withevery single day, your gender,
your color, your sports team,your weight, your accent, how do
they overlap, because they oftendo in good and bad ways. You
know, again, we talked aboutintersectionality. And those
principles apply here. Whenyou're part of multiple groups,

(16:27):
sometimes that's positive, theybuild on one another, you feel
extra part of the group.
Sometimes, they add to make youfeel more marginalized, more
separate, more different thanthe people around you, you look
different, you sound different.
You think about things in adifferent way. And sometimes
that is really, really hard. Butsometimes they're in conflict.

(16:50):
And that's a really difficultplace to be, if one of the
groups that you stronglyidentify with is in the in group
and the other the out group,which one do you choose? If you
choose to be part of the group,are you turning your back on all
those things that made youunique? If you choose to be part
of the out group, are youchoosing not to try to find

(17:11):
common ground? Those are reallydifficult decisions that some of
our friends and family andpeople that we care about have
to make every single day, everytime they walk into a boardroom,
every time they walk into arestaurant, they have to decide
who they're going to be. So aswe look at our groups, we have
to think about how can we makemore us and fewer them? Think

(17:34):
about what these groupsrepresent for most of us. They
arise in many ways for safety.
Could be psychological safety,physical safety, emotional
safety. So think about for eachof your groups, who is a threat?

(17:59):
Who is a threat to your safety,in that identity, that aspect of
your identity? Why are they athreat? So many times we see
things as being separate orincompatible. But a lot of times
it's not the why. Our "why"s arevery, very similar. Many of us

(18:20):
want safety securityopportunity, the chance to feel
like we make a contribution.
It's the how that gets us themechanisms for how we create
safety, provide opportunity.
That's what gets us but that'slogistics. That's not
philosophical, that's execution.
So we can work our way throughthat if our if our Why is the

(18:44):
same. So we need to find that.
Because if you look at thosedays, all of the days that you
see as a threat to you, why arethey a threat? And is there
anything you have in common withthey? Are they truly that

(19:07):
different? Sometimes they are, Iwill grant you that there are
some people with whom we willalways be philosophically
incompatible, I got you. Butthat is a really small number.
When we talk about us, and thenthe US is much larger than we
think if we actually give it achance and try to find ways to

(19:29):
come together. So if there's agroup that you have particular
enmity toward, take some time tothink about that. Think about
things that you have in commonthink about if even if they are
so polarized, you can't evenbegin to make a list of what
their policies are. Are theytruly group policies? Are these

(19:50):
one offs that are beingattributed to the entire group
again? I'm not talking about,you know, getting excited about
some Neo fascist group. I'm notsaying find a way to come
together on that. That's up toyou. I mean, good on you if
you're going to find some commonground there, right? But find
something that's reasonable. Andthen, if you know anyone from

(20:14):
that group, have a conversation,just open minded, ask questions.
Can you tell me a little bitabout what you believe? I know
you have said you feel this wayabout this policy, can you tell
me your thoughts, because youknow what, a lot of times, we
are not as different as youthink. If you don't know

(20:34):
anybody, Google it, check itout, find some reliable sources.
Because you know that so muchmedia is completely bias. So
find a few different sources andlearn about them.
Then for yourself, we have toengage in positive behaviors.
Recognize that all of the thingsthat you're proud of, are

(20:56):
awesome. And you're enough, justas you are. So the definition of
in group and out group is reallyarbitrary. And that doesn't make
it hurt any less. Honestly, Irecognize that. But it's a
social construct. It's somethingthat is outside of us. And it
doesn't have to be somethingthat we take inside ourselves.

(21:18):
find things that you're proudabout in all of your groups, and
celebrate that. If you haveinternal validation, you do not
need as much externalvalidation, all of us generally
need some type of externalvalidation. At some point, even
if it's acceptance at work, orthe ability to go get ahead.
That's true. We also worry aboutour kids, we want them to be
physically and psychologicallysafe at school and be able to

(21:41):
learn in a protectedenvironment. But recognize that
a lot of that stuff comes fromwithin. And then look at all
those people around you. Andattribute positive intentions.
Recognize that most people, eventhe ones you totally disagree
with, want safety, security,opportunities for themselves and

(22:03):
their children, the ability tocontribute to the world, it's
pretty universal. There'sobviously pluses and minuses,
not everybody's like that I gotyou. But it's pretty universal.
Now, this isn't saying that youshouldn't identify with these
things. As I say about reachingout, taking down barriers,

(22:24):
trying to create more or lessand less than be proud of all of
those things, you should be ableto celebrate all of the things
that make you unique and specialin all of the groups that you're
part of that pride is a positivething. But we can't let those
things create divisions, orenhanced divisions where they
already exist. And the way thatthey do that is by turning from

(22:46):
pride into feelings ofsuperiority, which then can
blossom into acts of aggression.
And that is negative, whetheryou are the in group or the out
group using your and honestlythat's relative, you make me
think you're the out group. Andyou may think, nope, we're the
we're the bomb here, we knowwhat's up. So either way, using
it as an opportunity to makeother people feel inferior, to

(23:09):
create policies that hold themdown, to create mechanisms to
make them feel excluded, tocreate anything that keeps
people from opportunities,because of whatever thing
identifies them. Those are actsof aggression, and they're
wrong. And that's not what weshould be looking for. We should
be finding ways to removedivisions instead of create

(23:32):
them. I mean, this is the worldwe live in. We are
interconnected. Globalization,even if you want to roll it back
as a political policy, it'shappening socially it is
happening. And so we are notgoing to be able to continue to
succeed as a society, or evenindividually, if we are not open
to building bridges and findingways to connect with people

(23:53):
around us, especially peoplethat are different, because the
fact is, people are getting moredifferent in a lot of ways and
in many ways that we're sayingexactly the same. But we're
getting more different on theoutside. And we have to be able
to appreciate all of thosethings. Because they give us
such rich perspective. And theymake things so interesting. And
you're missing out if you'reclosing your mind to some of
that stuff. So this week, make alist of all of the ways you're

(24:17):
an us. We're all the places thatyou feel us. It can be big
things like women, people ofcolor, healthcare professionals,
Texans, it can be little thingslike basketball players in their
40s and Cowboys, fans and peoplewith big hair. All of these

(24:42):
groups I'm very proud of. Butfor each of those groups, who is
the bay Who are the people thatmake you feel threatened, that
make you feel other or that yourgroup might make feel other? Can
you think of a couple of thingsabout that group that makes

(25:04):
sense to you that you admire? Orat least you can understand
where they're coming from? Ifyou're feeling super frogging,
can you reach out to someonefrom this group and try to
connect, just find some commonground. You know, building these
bridges takes practice. So evenif you don't do a great job of
it, that's okay. You can tryagain another time. But we don't

(25:25):
get better at it if we don'tkeep trying. And honestly, we
have to be willing to makemistakes now and then. Now, this
isn't going to fix our blindspots and our biases. But coming
closer to a shared understandingwill help us all get to a better
place.

(25:50):
So that's been our discussion ofgroup dynamics and expanding the
in group on Level the Pursuit.
Thanks for joining and I lookforward to your comments. If you
have ideas, comments, or peopleyou'd like me to talk to you in
the future, please send me anemail at info at
levelthepursuit.com. If youliked the discussion, and please
give it a LIKE, SUBSCRIBE orshare with a friend if you
didn't comment on what I coulddo better. Next week, we'll hear

(26:10):
from Dr. Andy Clayton on howartificial intelligence and
virtual reality arerevolutionising how we approach
developing leaders. Don't forgetto think of ways that you can
turn a few of your them's intoan office and head over to www
dot level, the pursuit.com toshare your insights and your
successes. I can't wait to learnfrom your thoughts. Thanks again

(26:30):
for joining level the pursuit.
Well, we can't choose where westart. We can choose our dreams
and how we pursue them.
Remember, success is a teamsport and there's room for all
of us to achieve our goals. Sobe a good leader. Be a good
follower and do something great