February 8, 2024 • 30 mins
Owning a business is a challenge. Knowing how to keep innovating in your business is an even bigger one. Join restaurant owner, motivational speaker, and innovation expert Sara Frasca each week as she guides fellow business owners in taking the next step to level up their business. If you've ever pondered hiring a business coach but want a sample first, come along for the adventure!
Send us a message to join the show for free business guidance: https://pointnortheast.com/contact-us/
Sara Frasca is the founder and owner of Trasca & Co Eatery in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida, an experienced and engaging motivational speaker, and the CEO of global business coaching firm Point NorthEast.
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
You're listening to level up your business, the
podcast where we talk tohardworking business owners and
leaders and help them solve realissues in real time. I'm your
host, Sarah Frasca restaurantowner, keynote speaker and
business coach. I've spent mycareer not only in corporate
(00:20):
America, but also as anentrepreneur, carrying on my
family's legacy through myrestaurant. Now a business coach
and consultant. I'm helpingother businesses to use creative
problem solving and innovativethinking to drive lasting
change. Stay tuned to hear someinspiring guidance that will
(00:40):
help you to level up yourbusiness. Well, good afternoon,
I suppose it's still morningwhere you are. But thank you for
joining me, Michael. I trulyappreciate it.
My pleasure, sir. Great to bewith you. So you
and I have had lots and lots ofconversations, but our listeners
have not always had theopportunity to learn from you
(01:03):
glean insight from you. And soI'm just again, just delighted
to have you on the level up yourbusiness podcast.
Well, great. Thanks. Nice to behere.
It's great. So I think first ofall, thank you for starting a
business with me. My pleasure,my absolute. I'm sure honored.
And, you know, it's fun in somany regards. But I would say,
(01:27):
you know, we've been able tomake some magic together for
clients. And that's been a realhighlight of my life and my
career. So thank you, again,publicly for that.
My pleasure. Thanks.
Well, Michael, I think if we canstart out just because not
everyone, you know, has had thepleasure of knowing you, from
our listeners and those thatwill stream this, can you just
(01:48):
give me a little background ofkind of your career where you've
come from how you've built yourworld? Sure,
for a good many years, I was inthe mass transit business,
started there very early, theripe age of 18 years old, and
worked my way up to the numberthree position in a 12,000
(02:12):
person company in Chicago, theChicago Transit Authority, left
and became the chief operatingofficer of the Denver transit
system. So I spent a good partof my early career in the
transit business, and thendecided I was going to get out
of the public sector and moveinto private sector, and had a
relationship with some peoplewho were consultants to me in
(02:33):
Chicago, who always had astanding offer, if I ever wanted
to get into consulting, thatthey would have an opportunity
for me and to become a partnerwith them. So moved in that
direction about 39 years ago.
And we stayed together for acouple of years merged with a
big national accounting firm.
(02:53):
And I concluded there wasprobably not going to be a fit
for me long term. So I decidedto go and venture into the field
of consulting on my own start myown company, which I did until I
met Matthew Sarah and kind ofchanged the direction after
almost 39 years, you are myfirst partner and an incredible
(03:15):
partner you are. So it's it'sbeen a great ride for 39 years,
spent a lot of my early practicein working with all types of
companies from fashion designcompanies to hair care, product
manufacturing, to softwaredevelopment companies, to
manufacturing companies,hundreds of accounting firms
(03:37):
across the US and Canada, andthen started to specialize in
law firms about 20 to 25 yearsago. And early on became, I
believe, the first non attorneyto be approved by the Supreme
Court in Colorado, to presentCLE programs to attorneys. And
so that launched me into thefield of law. And so that's
(03:59):
where you and I have spent quitea bit of our time together, as
well as assisting clients in alltypes of professions and
industry. So it's been a great,great run.
That's really great. And, youknow, through our partnership, I
mean, I think you have such awonderful, wonderful set of
business acumen. But in myopinion, you've also brought
(04:22):
kind of the human side of beinga business leader, being a
business coach. And you know,you're really, in my opinion,
kind of one of the best outthere that can help people
navigate their work life, youknow, journey, because sometimes
it's not the numbers or thebusiness or the cases or the
(04:44):
clients. It's successionplanning its partnership,
conflict, it's Can you talkabout that a little bit like how
did you get into really becominga master of working with that
subject matter which isUltimately people. Yeah,
you know, I don't know thatthere's a recipe or even a track
(05:06):
to, to identify. But rather, Ithink, you know, I just have
kind of an innate ability to seethings and put things together
reasonably quick. You know, somany of the clients that I've
worked with that, you know, inthe early days were clients
where I'd never worked in theirindustry or in their profession.
(05:26):
And, you know, I think one ofthe key attributes of a really
effective business advisor isthe ability to really absorb,
listen, learn, observe, ask theright questions, and, and be
able to, to internalize thatinformation and start to piece
things together. And, you know,I think if I have a particular
(05:47):
unique skill, it's the abilityto pull things together pretty
quickly, have a good insightabout people. You know, I often
say that consulting is not aboutnecessarily giving the answers,
although I think that's part ofit. I think consulting more
often than not business advisoris really being able to ask the
right questions. So kind of abias. And my bias is that most
(06:10):
people have most of their ownanswers. But they're buried in
the in the deepness of theirtheir mind and not brought to
the surface very easily. So alot of times when I'm conducting
a meeting, or an interview witha client, I'll say things like,
I just like to have kind of afree flow of conversation, I'd
love to get to know you better.
And, you know, if you don'tmind, I'll just kind of dive in
(06:33):
and ask you some questions. So Ivery soluble, I don't have a
script in terms of askingstandard questions, I have kind
of a mental picture, I'm tryingto fill in the brushstrokes, if
you will, to get a real clearunderstanding. So often, at the
end of the interview, you know,I'll say to somebody, you know,
(06:54):
What haven't we talked about,that we should have talked
about? And if I've beeneffective in that, they'll
generally say, you know, you'vereally asked me some things I
haven't thought about in a longtime, or I've never thought
about, and, you know, I reallyappreciate the time that we
spent together, because it'sjust been very educational for
me. If I get that response, Iknow that I've probably done a
(07:15):
pretty good job because I'vehelped helped awaken in them
some, some answers that they mayhave deeply seated in their, you
know, psychology, but theyhaven't brought it to, to the
forefront so. And I thinkconnecting with people, I mean,
you know, my clients are myfriends. Even if I'm only
(07:36):
interviewing them for the firsttime I, I got a call on Saturday
night with with a woman wholives in Georgia. And she's a
very, very seasoned, capableattorney. She's just incredibly
talented. And we had a session,she called me on Friday and
said, you know, do you have timeon Saturday night to talk? You
(07:57):
know, usually I don't talk withclients at seven o'clock on a
Saturday night, but I did inthis particular case, and is
often the case, you know, at theend of it, she said, you know,
Michael, this has just been, Ican't tell you how helpful this
has been. I always feel like I'mtalking to my psychologist or
psychiatrist. And I candidlyhave gotten that response so
many times over the years, it'skind of flattering, but I'll say
(08:19):
I'm, I'm not a psychiatrist, ora psychologist, but people often
feel that that's the role that Iplay for them, because I help
bring out issues and resolutionsthat they otherwise wouldn't
have. Soit's really great. You know,
it's interesting, because nowthat I'm working, you know,
alongside you, I go tomasterminds, I go to events, and
(08:43):
people will say, Michael Smithis the best. So I'm just sort of
curious. And, you know, I, Ithink it is true in a lot of
respects. I mean, I've teasedyou that you're our Yoda. But
what do you think has made youso successful that you've never
done any advertising? You justliterally have people saying to
(09:06):
other people, I trust MichaelSmith, if you need help, he's
the guy.
Yeah, you know, I don't knowthat there's a magic recipe. I
really don't I I pride myself inthe fact that you know, I, I
have one client, they've been aclient and you know who it is
served for 25 years, and theperson who's now the CEO of the
(09:29):
company, and He is the formerchair of the board of a very,
very large real estate nationalreal estate company. I knew him
when he was 24 years old. And,you know, I've coached and
mentored him along the way he's,he calls it seek, seek for
advice. So I've been able toestablish long term
relationships. And you know, Ithink at the end of the day, my
(09:51):
clients really matter. I mean,they are everything to me, you
know, I mean, I make a livingfrom it, but making a difference
in their Business in theirprofession in their, in their
lives is usually important tome. So I have a lot of clients
who I consider very, very dearfriends. And there's always a
(10:12):
fine line that you have tobalance in that because
consulting is one, you oftenhave to share with people
something that they don't wantto hear that they need to hear.
So the friendship, you have tokeep that someone in check, but
I think it's just really, youknow, I've been fortunate, you
know, for 39 years, I've, I'vejust learned so much in so many
different professions, I mean,what an incredible opportunity
(10:35):
or career track where you get togo in, and you never see the
same thing twice, you'll seethings that are similar, but
they're always different, thepeople are always different. And
to really become intimatelyfamiliar with the business, the
business owners, their keystaff, their clients, how they
do business, is just anincredible learning experience.
(10:58):
I mean, you're just you'relearning every single day. So
every day is a new chapter, in anew book. The beauty of it is
that over the years, youaccumulate a lot of experience
and knowledge and background onlots of different businesses.
And as a result, you know, Iwill often say to a client, I
will never ever give you a pieceof advice, that's theory or just
(11:19):
a theory, I'll only provideadvice in terms of something I
know that I've seen, that Ipersonally have experienced, or
that I've worked with a clientand seeing them succeed with it.
Those are the things that I'llshare with you. And it may or
may not work for you and yourcompany. But that experiential
base, that depth of background,in working in so many different
(11:40):
professions in industries, hasbeen so helpful, because you can
cross reference between one typeof business and another. And so
the beauty of it is you make,you know, a pretty decent
living, but you know, you'rechanging people's lives, you're
changing, you know, theirability to be successful in
business. And I think when thathappens, they know that you've
(12:04):
been a part of their success.
And I know when I'm successful,it's not because of me, it
really is because we've kind ofconnected and created some
chemistry that have allowed themto make some unique decisions
that they maybe otherwisewouldn't have made. And they're
they're gracious enough to say,You've really helped me do what
I otherwise wouldn't have done.
(12:26):
And if I can accomplish that,that is success.
That's great. That's great. Iwas going to ask you just kind
of what has been most rewarding,I would imagine it's those
moments where someone has said,Thank you, I, I've gotten to the
place I wanted to get to becauseof you. And any stories or any
other examples of kind of whathas been rewarding for you, as a
(12:49):
business advisor and coach, kindof stick out?
Yeah, there's there's been,there's been quite a few. I
received a text message thismorning from the fellow who owns
a distribution company. He's inColorado, and he has a company
in California. He's been aclient for 25 years. And I can
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remember we've worked togetherfor three or four years. And his
father was in the business withhim as well. Father had a very
successful company inCalifornia. And we worked
together for two or three years.
And I said some things to himthat were very difficult. And
that was that he he didn't valueand appreciate what his father
recreated, even though hisfather was old school to
(13:33):
business in a different way. Andsaid, you know, you'd have a lot
to learn from him. And we gotinto a little bit of a
difference of opinion. I said,you know, I think we've gone as
far as we can go, I think it'stime for you to kind of do your
own thing. Because he was verystrong willed and, and decided
that, you know, he knew betterand that's fine. But to this
day, he reaches out and says,you know, Michael, I haven't
(13:56):
talked in a while we need toreconnect. And I'd like you to
come out to my house in Newport,California and spend some time
and you could have an eight. So25 years later, and you know, I
gave a client some bad news theydidn't want to hear. He
ultimately realized that, youknow, the advice is probably
pretty good advice. I had it wasreally unusual, because a couple
(14:17):
months ago, I think you knowabout it. I reached out to a
fellow who started his own lawpractice. And I hadn't talked to
him a long time. And I recruitedhim years ago for a client of
mine who had an immigration lawpractice. And at the time, this
fellow was a school teacher, buthe was got his master's degree
in business and went to lawschool and was getting his law
(14:40):
degree. And he's just a reallygifted guy. He was just really,
really smart. And I recruitedhim from my client. My client
says, This guy doesn't knowanything about law firm. He's a
school teacher. I said, trust methis guy. If you give him a
chance, he will be really reallygood. Turned out he was a rock
star. So he worked with thefirm, he was the law firm
(15:02):
administrator became the CFO gothis law degree, and he calls me
up. And he said, you know,Michael, I just need to go out
on my own, I'm going to start myown practice. And I said, Hey,
that's great. You know, Godbless. And so I taught, talk to
him periodically, I haven'ttalked to him in 10 years, maybe
even longer. And I just happenedto call him a couple months ago.
And he said, you know, Michael,I've never told you this. But I
(15:27):
just want to, I want you toknow, you were the most
influential person in my life,that I've said to my wife
recently, and she's also anattorney. I said to my wife,
that if it wasn't for MichaelSmith, I wouldn't be where I am
today.
Yeah, that's amazing. And we'rehuge, huge. It's pretty special.
(15:51):
I think, you know, one thingyou've told me that I think of a
lot is that, often times theperson that has been most
influential is someone who seessomething in you that you might
not see in yourself. And youhave a gift in that. I mean,
I've I've been, you know,alongside for the ride in some
(16:12):
of the examples, or, you know,we've teased out together people
in an organization who maybeare, you know, kind of a
diamond, waiting to bediscovered, they're, you know,
kind of heads down working hard,they've got great loyalty for
the owner, they've got great,you know, kind of work ethic,
(16:33):
but they hadn't thought ofthemselves as a leader, and you
go in and you say, you've gotit, you've got what it would
take. And that is a change inthe trajectory of their career
and therefore their life.
That was the exact conversationthat I had Saturday night with
this attorney who she's a 44year old woman in Georgia,
(16:56):
incredibly successful. Shedoesn't even have a clue how
competent. I mean, she does havea clue for sure. But what I said
to her is, I can visualize that,where you're going and the track
that we're on, and the work I'mdoing with the firm, that in
five years, you out, you justhave no idea how well positioned
(17:17):
you're going to be you're goingto be 49 years old, you're going
to be at the pinnacle of yourcareer, you have the ability to
assume a leadership position inthe firm, your end, ultimately
become the managing partner ofthe firm. And I can see it, I
can see it right now. And shesaid, You know, that's amazing.
And you say that, because I'venever even thought in those
terms. And so part ofilluminating the possibility is
(17:42):
is huge for somebody, because ifthey're, you know, we're all
kind of insular, we all kind ofwe're all our own worst critic,
you know, should I do this?
Should I do that? And so it's sohard to see yourself from the
outside. And so having somebodywho's got a reasonable degree of
experience, who can say, here'swhat I see. And it's not BS,
it's, you know, you never tellBS, you give it to him as
(18:04):
straight, as you know, I sayotherwise, it comes out crooked.
Bottom line is, but goodpositive direction. And people
say, Well, you know, okay, somaybe now you plant an idea in
their head that they otherwisewouldn't have had, and then they
start moving in that direction.
You know, they, you know, somuch of our capability is
(18:24):
hidden. You know, there's been alot of studies at MIT and
Stanford and other, you know,major educational institutions,
that if we're lucky, we'retapping into six to 8% of our
mental capability consciously90 92% of our capability is
subconscious. So consulting isabout how do we go in and tap
(18:47):
that 90 or 92%, that's downthere and bring it to the
surface. Because at the end ofthe day, I'm an absolute
believer that when somebodycommits to something that they
want to do, and they areabsolutely clear that this is
something I'm going to have inmy life, you can do anything you
can do, you can accomplish anygoal that you set, you have to
(19:09):
first be clear that it'ssomething that you want. And
then when you commit to it, andyou're focused and disciplined.
And I know that from personalexperience.
Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, Iknow you have done amazing
things in your career and alsohelped others. I was curious if
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you would next talk about justthis process of, of envisioning
what you want of putting it outthere. And I mean, really
articulating kind of the goaland then moving in that
direction. I think you've,you've given me a lot of
examples, and you've talked tome about, you know, you have to
(19:53):
you can't do something if youhaven't dreamed it, or Yeah,
rightnow, you know, notice about me,
and it's kind of just anexample. A lot of people over
the course of my career havesaid, you know, Michael, you've
really been really lucky. And myresponse has been, you know, I
appreciate that. But you knowwhat, honestly, luck has not had
(20:16):
a whole lot to do with it. Itreally hasn't. I mean, it's been
anything that I've accomplished,didn't happen by accident, it
happened by design, it happenedby choice. And you can't
reasonably accomplish somethingthat you haven't yet clearly
envisioned and within your ownmind. And an example of it, and
one that I'm very, very proudof, is when I was 34, I was
diagnosed with pretty muchadvanced emphysema because I was
(20:39):
a smoker, terrible, terriblething. I took up running as a
way to rehabilitate my lungs,and, you know, did my first
marathon after nine months aftersmoking two packs of camels for
many, many years, I mean, Ithought I was going to die. And
then the next year did anotherand basically does pretty
significant recovery in myhealth. But the ultimate was, I
(21:00):
was going to run 100 mile raceup in Leadville, Colorado, which
starts at 10,500 feet and goesup to 12,900 feet. And it's, you
know, the highest and mostdifficult 100 mile race in the
United States. And I set avision of, you know, running and
completing that race. And Ican't tell you the amount of
(21:20):
time and energy and painassociated with preparing for
that getting up in the middle ofthe night running through the
night, running in the snow goingfor, you know, 15 or 20 hours at
a time. And people would oftensay to me, are you crazy? Are
you nuts? Why would you want todo that? Well, for me, it was a,
it was kind of the pinnacle of along running career over, you
(21:41):
know, some 40 years. And soevery time I would be on the
trail and done it four differenttimes, every time I'd be on the
trail, it would be, you know,this pitch of night, and the
moon would not be out and itwould start raining. And it's
three o'clock in the morning,and you're just hurting so bad.
And you're in so much pain. Andyou're saying why are you doing
(22:02):
this? And what I would do is inmy mind is I would visualize the
finish line in Leadville,Colorado, with the finish batter
hanging up. And as soon as myhead went to pain in my body was
aching is it was all about painmanagement. And that is how do I
(22:22):
take my mind? And how do I takeit out of the presence and put
it into where I want to be. Andso getting that focused in my
head, and you crossed the finishline. And it wasn't pretty?
Yeah, difficult in business isvery, very much that way.
Helping people get clarity aboutwhat their Leadville finish
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looks like, that could be a $10million business, that could be
a $50 million business. It's notabout the money. It's about the
journey, it's about thesatisfaction, it's about the
accomplishment. It's aboutmaking a difference in people's
lives. It's about creating acompany that you can be very
proud of. And you and I are verymuch in that sir, you and I
right now are very, very much inthat is our relationship is ever
(23:06):
so important to both you and me.
Because I know I know whatyou're going to create through
my help and involvement. But youknow, as I said to you a number
of times, I can see four or fiveyears out, you'll be better than
I ever was. And you will bebecause you've got such talent,
and such capability andincredible energy, great
(23:28):
intellect. So you've got all thetools, you know, the only
difference between you and I, asyou know, I've got 30 years more
experience, you know, and thatcan be helpful as we kind of
traverse our success trailtogether. No
question. I think you and I havea lot of good kind of symbiotic
moments of our differentstrengths. But yeah, you have a
(23:51):
wealth of knowledge on a lot ofdifferent things. So um, yeah,
it's it's a really interestingparallel you draw between the
running, you know, and just kindof putting that out there and
then doing the work because whatyou and I have been very
specific on is that we're notgoing to be be able to help
everyone, right? I mean, thereare some folks who might say,
(24:13):
like, I want that silver bullet,I want that magic fix, and
they're out there looking forwhat's the, what's the latest,
you know, snake oil that can fixall my problems. And you and I
are like, ah, that's not ourthing, because we believe that a
sustainable improvement up intothe right, which is our motto is
(24:35):
done through hard work throughdiscipline through dedication
through I would say probably apretty good amount of time.
Yeah, it's a journey. It is ajourney. That is true. Well,
man, I mean, I would say youknow, the, the things you've
(24:56):
done in your career have beenpretty amazing. I mean, the the
running included, I think youare an inspiration to me, as you
well know, you are aninspiration to many, many
others. And I think you and Ihave a lot of fun ahead of us. I
think it's up into the right forus as well. I think we're gonna
(25:18):
have a lot of good clients, andlots of good challenges from
them. And I look forwardto it. Same here. Yeah, making a
difference together is huge.
It's been great, and it's goingto be even better.
So as a wise man once taught meto ask, is there anything else
(25:38):
that you want to share with ourlisteners today that I maybe
didn't think to ask you?
I think real success is somebodywho, in business real success is
somebody who has put together abusiness or a company, or a
(26:00):
firm, where they make a very,very good living, they develop
the asset that they have, whichis their business. But they
recognize that the way in whichthey do that successfully is the
key to this business is aboutselecting the right people, and
having the right people in theright place. And people who
(26:25):
share a common set of values andpurpose, and that they are
intrinsically connected to thebusiness because it's not just a
living, they believe in what thebusiness does. They're committed
to what the business does. Theyfeel that they are an owner of
the business, whether they're anequity owner or not, that they
(26:45):
feel totally committed to whatthe business is all about. And
success is managing turnover. Agood business owner is one that
if somebody leaves yourbusiness, you ask the question,
Is there something I could havedone differently? That would
have kept that person in thecompany? Did I disappoint them?
Or did we fail somewhere. And ifsomebody leaves because their
(27:09):
spouse took another job inanother state, or somebody took
an opportunity, that was anopportunity, they just couldn't
refuse, God bless him. But ifpeople left your organization,
because they didn't feel valued,they didn't feel appreciated,
they didn't feel like they werecompensated fairly, they didn't
feel like they had a careertrack, shame on you. successes.
(27:30):
When you build a business whereyou got stability, you've got
people that are committed to ashared vision, and that they are
producing results. And you aresystematically growing and
building that business overtime. And that you get to a
place in your career, where youtruly have the choice of when
you want to work in the businessand how you want to work in the
(27:51):
business. I was just with a guylast week in Louisville,
Kentucky. And he's got a very,very, very successful
construction business inMichigan. And he transferred the
business over to his his son,and the son is now more
successful than he was. And hewas wildly successful. And I
watched the relationship betweenthe two of them. And the father
(28:13):
is 81 years old. And the son is51 years old. And watch the
chemistry between the two. Andyou talk about cool. I mean,
just a neat, neat experience ofand this father walks away. He's
got more money than God and hissons making more money than he
ever did. And they've got acompany where everyone's been
(28:34):
there a long time.
Bingo, that's beautiful. Bingo.
Because the real value of acompany, the real true value is
what do you create over the longterm? And do you either sell it?
Do you transfer it to anotherperson? Do you get paid out. But
the ultimate peak is when youget to a place where the
business is running veryeffectively, very efficiently
(28:58):
and independent of your activeinvolvement, where you have the
systems and the organization andthe people in place that are
just killing it, knocking it outof the park, that success.
It's great. It's great. Well,again, thank you for being
willing to be on the podcast.
Thank you for building abeautiful business that I'm
(29:21):
very, very proud of. And thatI'm hoping will have a very
lasting legacy for our coachesfor our clients. So thank you,
and I am excited to help clientswith you in the next couple of
days even so I'll see you inperson soon, which will be fun.
(29:41):
That's right. We'll be togetherfor a full week next week. And
we were together a couple ofweeks ago and looking forward to
it.
Me too, Michael, thank youagain. Okay. Bye. Thanks for
joining us, everybody. Thanks somuch for tuning into this
episode of level up yourbusiness with me Sarah Frank.
Scott if you have a problem inyour business that's keeping you
(30:04):
up at night please join us in afuture episode so we can help
get you unstuck just clickingthe link in the show notes and
send us a message pleaseremember stay innovative friends
You're listening to level up your business, the
podcast where we talk tohardworking business owners and
leaders and help them solve realissues in real time. I'm your
host, Sarah Frasca restaurantowner, keynote speaker and
business coach. I've spent mycareer not only in corporate
(00:20):
America, but also as anentrepreneur, carrying on my
family's legacy through myrestaurant. Now a business coach
and consultant. I'm helpingother businesses to use creative
problem solving and innovativethinking to drive lasting
change. Stay tuned to hear someinspiring guidance that will
(00:40):
help you to level up yourbusiness. Well, good afternoon,
I suppose it's still morningwhere you are. But thank you for
joining me, Michael. I trulyappreciate it.
My pleasure, sir. Great to bewith you. So you
and I have had lots and lots ofconversations, but our listeners
have not always had theopportunity to learn from you
(01:03):
glean insight from you. And soI'm just again, just delighted
to have you on the level up yourbusiness podcast.
Well, great. Thanks. Nice to behere.
It's great. So I think first ofall, thank you for starting a
business with me. My pleasure,my absolute. I'm sure honored.
And, you know, it's fun in somany regards. But I would say,
(01:27):
you know, we've been able tomake some magic together for
clients. And that's been a realhighlight of my life and my
career. So thank you, again,publicly for that.
My pleasure. Thanks.
Well, Michael, I think if we canstart out just because not
everyone, you know, has had thepleasure of knowing you, from
our listeners and those thatwill stream this, can you just
(01:48):
give me a little background ofkind of your career where you've
come from how you've built yourworld? Sure,
for a good many years, I was inthe mass transit business,
started there very early, theripe age of 18 years old, and
worked my way up to the numberthree position in a 12,000
(02:12):
person company in Chicago, theChicago Transit Authority, left
and became the chief operatingofficer of the Denver transit
system. So I spent a good partof my early career in the
transit business, and thendecided I was going to get out
of the public sector and moveinto private sector, and had a
relationship with some peoplewho were consultants to me in
(02:33):
Chicago, who always had astanding offer, if I ever wanted
to get into consulting, thatthey would have an opportunity
for me and to become a partnerwith them. So moved in that
direction about 39 years ago.
And we stayed together for acouple of years merged with a
big national accounting firm.
(02:53):
And I concluded there wasprobably not going to be a fit
for me long term. So I decidedto go and venture into the field
of consulting on my own start myown company, which I did until I
met Matthew Sarah and kind ofchanged the direction after
almost 39 years, you are myfirst partner and an incredible
(03:15):
partner you are. So it's it'sbeen a great ride for 39 years,
spent a lot of my early practicein working with all types of
companies from fashion designcompanies to hair care, product
manufacturing, to softwaredevelopment companies, to
manufacturing companies,hundreds of accounting firms
(03:37):
across the US and Canada, andthen started to specialize in
law firms about 20 to 25 yearsago. And early on became, I
believe, the first non attorneyto be approved by the Supreme
Court in Colorado, to presentCLE programs to attorneys. And
so that launched me into thefield of law. And so that's
(03:59):
where you and I have spent quitea bit of our time together, as
well as assisting clients in alltypes of professions and
industry. So it's been a great,great run.
That's really great. And, youknow, through our partnership, I
mean, I think you have such awonderful, wonderful set of
business acumen. But in myopinion, you've also brought
(04:22):
kind of the human side of beinga business leader, being a
business coach. And you know,you're really, in my opinion,
kind of one of the best outthere that can help people
navigate their work life, youknow, journey, because sometimes
it's not the numbers or thebusiness or the cases or the
(04:44):
clients. It's successionplanning its partnership,
conflict, it's Can you talkabout that a little bit like how
did you get into really becominga master of working with that
subject matter which isUltimately people. Yeah,
you know, I don't know thatthere's a recipe or even a track
(05:06):
to, to identify. But rather, Ithink, you know, I just have
kind of an innate ability to seethings and put things together
reasonably quick. You know, somany of the clients that I've
worked with that, you know, inthe early days were clients
where I'd never worked in theirindustry or in their profession.
(05:26):
And, you know, I think one ofthe key attributes of a really
effective business advisor isthe ability to really absorb,
listen, learn, observe, ask theright questions, and, and be
able to, to internalize thatinformation and start to piece
things together. And, you know,I think if I have a particular
(05:47):
unique skill, it's the abilityto pull things together pretty
quickly, have a good insightabout people. You know, I often
say that consulting is not aboutnecessarily giving the answers,
although I think that's part ofit. I think consulting more
often than not business advisoris really being able to ask the
right questions. So kind of abias. And my bias is that most
(06:10):
people have most of their ownanswers. But they're buried in
the in the deepness of theirtheir mind and not brought to
the surface very easily. So alot of times when I'm conducting
a meeting, or an interview witha client, I'll say things like,
I just like to have kind of afree flow of conversation, I'd
love to get to know you better.
And, you know, if you don'tmind, I'll just kind of dive in
(06:33):
and ask you some questions. So Ivery soluble, I don't have a
script in terms of askingstandard questions, I have kind
of a mental picture, I'm tryingto fill in the brushstrokes, if
you will, to get a real clearunderstanding. So often, at the
end of the interview, you know,I'll say to somebody, you know,
(06:54):
What haven't we talked about,that we should have talked
about? And if I've beeneffective in that, they'll
generally say, you know, you'vereally asked me some things I
haven't thought about in a longtime, or I've never thought
about, and, you know, I reallyappreciate the time that we
spent together, because it'sjust been very educational for
me. If I get that response, Iknow that I've probably done a
(07:15):
pretty good job because I'vehelped helped awaken in them
some, some answers that they mayhave deeply seated in their, you
know, psychology, but theyhaven't brought it to, to the
forefront so. And I thinkconnecting with people, I mean,
you know, my clients are myfriends. Even if I'm only
(07:36):
interviewing them for the firsttime I, I got a call on Saturday
night with with a woman wholives in Georgia. And she's a
very, very seasoned, capableattorney. She's just incredibly
talented. And we had a session,she called me on Friday and
said, you know, do you have timeon Saturday night to talk? You
(07:57):
know, usually I don't talk withclients at seven o'clock on a
Saturday night, but I did inthis particular case, and is
often the case, you know, at theend of it, she said, you know,
Michael, this has just been, Ican't tell you how helpful this
has been. I always feel like I'mtalking to my psychologist or
psychiatrist. And I candidlyhave gotten that response so
many times over the years, it'skind of flattering, but I'll say
(08:19):
I'm, I'm not a psychiatrist, ora psychologist, but people often
feel that that's the role that Iplay for them, because I help
bring out issues and resolutionsthat they otherwise wouldn't
have. Soit's really great. You know,
it's interesting, because nowthat I'm working, you know,
alongside you, I go tomasterminds, I go to events, and
(08:43):
people will say, Michael Smithis the best. So I'm just sort of
curious. And, you know, I, Ithink it is true in a lot of
respects. I mean, I've teasedyou that you're our Yoda. But
what do you think has made youso successful that you've never
done any advertising? You justliterally have people saying to
(09:06):
other people, I trust MichaelSmith, if you need help, he's
the guy.
Yeah, you know, I don't knowthat there's a magic recipe. I
really don't I I pride myself inthe fact that you know, I, I
have one client, they've been aclient and you know who it is
served for 25 years, and theperson who's now the CEO of the
(09:29):
company, and He is the formerchair of the board of a very,
very large real estate nationalreal estate company. I knew him
when he was 24 years old. And,you know, I've coached and
mentored him along the way he's,he calls it seek, seek for
advice. So I've been able toestablish long term
relationships. And you know, Ithink at the end of the day, my
(09:51):
clients really matter. I mean,they are everything to me, you
know, I mean, I make a livingfrom it, but making a difference
in their Business in theirprofession in their, in their
lives is usually important tome. So I have a lot of clients
who I consider very, very dearfriends. And there's always a
(10:12):
fine line that you have tobalance in that because
consulting is one, you oftenhave to share with people
something that they don't wantto hear that they need to hear.
So the friendship, you have tokeep that someone in check, but
I think it's just really, youknow, I've been fortunate, you
know, for 39 years, I've, I'vejust learned so much in so many
different professions, I mean,what an incredible opportunity
(10:35):
or career track where you get togo in, and you never see the
same thing twice, you'll seethings that are similar, but
they're always different, thepeople are always different. And
to really become intimatelyfamiliar with the business, the
business owners, their keystaff, their clients, how they
do business, is just anincredible learning experience.
(10:58):
I mean, you're just you'relearning every single day. So
every day is a new chapter, in anew book. The beauty of it is
that over the years, youaccumulate a lot of experience
and knowledge and background onlots of different businesses.
And as a result, you know, Iwill often say to a client, I
will never ever give you a pieceof advice, that's theory or just
(11:19):
a theory, I'll only provideadvice in terms of something I
know that I've seen, that Ipersonally have experienced, or
that I've worked with a clientand seeing them succeed with it.
Those are the things that I'llshare with you. And it may or
may not work for you and yourcompany. But that experiential
base, that depth of background,in working in so many different
(11:40):
professions in industries, hasbeen so helpful, because you can
cross reference between one typeof business and another. And so
the beauty of it is you make,you know, a pretty decent
living, but you know, you'rechanging people's lives, you're
changing, you know, theirability to be successful in
business. And I think when thathappens, they know that you've
(12:04):
been a part of their success.
And I know when I'm successful,it's not because of me, it
really is because we've kind ofconnected and created some
chemistry that have allowed themto make some unique decisions
that they maybe otherwisewouldn't have made. And they're
they're gracious enough to say,You've really helped me do what
I otherwise wouldn't have done.
(12:26):
And if I can accomplish that,that is success.
That's great. That's great. Iwas going to ask you just kind
of what has been most rewarding,I would imagine it's those
moments where someone has said,Thank you, I, I've gotten to the
place I wanted to get to becauseof you. And any stories or any
other examples of kind of whathas been rewarding for you, as a
(12:49):
business advisor and coach, kindof stick out?
Yeah, there's there's been,there's been quite a few. I
received a text message thismorning from the fellow who owns
a distribution company. He's inColorado, and he has a company
in California. He's been aclient for 25 years. And I can
(13:13):
remember we've worked togetherfor three or four years. And his
father was in the business withhim as well. Father had a very
successful company inCalifornia. And we worked
together for two or three years.
And I said some things to himthat were very difficult. And
that was that he he didn't valueand appreciate what his father
recreated, even though hisfather was old school to
(13:33):
business in a different way. Andsaid, you know, you'd have a lot
to learn from him. And we gotinto a little bit of a
difference of opinion. I said,you know, I think we've gone as
far as we can go, I think it'stime for you to kind of do your
own thing. Because he was verystrong willed and, and decided
that, you know, he knew betterand that's fine. But to this
day, he reaches out and says,you know, Michael, I haven't
(13:56):
talked in a while we need toreconnect. And I'd like you to
come out to my house in Newport,California and spend some time
and you could have an eight. So25 years later, and you know, I
gave a client some bad news theydidn't want to hear. He
ultimately realized that, youknow, the advice is probably
pretty good advice. I had it wasreally unusual, because a couple
(14:17):
months ago, I think you knowabout it. I reached out to a
fellow who started his own lawpractice. And I hadn't talked to
him a long time. And I recruitedhim years ago for a client of
mine who had an immigration lawpractice. And at the time, this
fellow was a school teacher, buthe was got his master's degree
in business and went to lawschool and was getting his law
(14:40):
degree. And he's just a reallygifted guy. He was just really,
really smart. And I recruitedhim from my client. My client
says, This guy doesn't knowanything about law firm. He's a
school teacher. I said, trust methis guy. If you give him a
chance, he will be really reallygood. Turned out he was a rock
star. So he worked with thefirm, he was the law firm
(15:02):
administrator became the CFO gothis law degree, and he calls me
up. And he said, you know,Michael, I just need to go out
on my own, I'm going to start myown practice. And I said, Hey,
that's great. You know, Godbless. And so I taught, talk to
him periodically, I haven'ttalked to him in 10 years, maybe
even longer. And I just happenedto call him a couple months ago.
And he said, you know, Michael,I've never told you this. But I
(15:27):
just want to, I want you toknow, you were the most
influential person in my life,that I've said to my wife
recently, and she's also anattorney. I said to my wife,
that if it wasn't for MichaelSmith, I wouldn't be where I am
today.
Yeah, that's amazing. And we'rehuge, huge. It's pretty special.
(15:51):
I think, you know, one thingyou've told me that I think of a
lot is that, often times theperson that has been most
influential is someone who seessomething in you that you might
not see in yourself. And youhave a gift in that. I mean,
I've I've been, you know,alongside for the ride in some
(16:12):
of the examples, or, you know,we've teased out together people
in an organization who maybeare, you know, kind of a
diamond, waiting to bediscovered, they're, you know,
kind of heads down working hard,they've got great loyalty for
the owner, they've got great,you know, kind of work ethic,
(16:33):
but they hadn't thought ofthemselves as a leader, and you
go in and you say, you've gotit, you've got what it would
take. And that is a change inthe trajectory of their career
and therefore their life.
That was the exact conversationthat I had Saturday night with
this attorney who she's a 44year old woman in Georgia,
(16:56):
incredibly successful. Shedoesn't even have a clue how
competent. I mean, she does havea clue for sure. But what I said
to her is, I can visualize that,where you're going and the track
that we're on, and the work I'mdoing with the firm, that in
five years, you out, you justhave no idea how well positioned
(17:17):
you're going to be you're goingto be 49 years old, you're going
to be at the pinnacle of yourcareer, you have the ability to
assume a leadership position inthe firm, your end, ultimately
become the managing partner ofthe firm. And I can see it, I
can see it right now. And shesaid, You know, that's amazing.
And you say that, because I'venever even thought in those
terms. And so part ofilluminating the possibility is
(17:42):
is huge for somebody, because ifthey're, you know, we're all
kind of insular, we all kind ofwe're all our own worst critic,
you know, should I do this?
Should I do that? And so it's sohard to see yourself from the
outside. And so having somebodywho's got a reasonable degree of
experience, who can say, here'swhat I see. And it's not BS,
it's, you know, you never tellBS, you give it to him as
(18:04):
straight, as you know, I sayotherwise, it comes out crooked.
Bottom line is, but goodpositive direction. And people
say, Well, you know, okay, somaybe now you plant an idea in
their head that they otherwisewouldn't have had, and then they
start moving in that direction.
You know, they, you know, somuch of our capability is
(18:24):
hidden. You know, there's been alot of studies at MIT and
Stanford and other, you know,major educational institutions,
that if we're lucky, we'retapping into six to 8% of our
mental capability consciously90 92% of our capability is
subconscious. So consulting isabout how do we go in and tap
(18:47):
that 90 or 92%, that's downthere and bring it to the
surface. Because at the end ofthe day, I'm an absolute
believer that when somebodycommits to something that they
want to do, and they areabsolutely clear that this is
something I'm going to have inmy life, you can do anything you
can do, you can accomplish anygoal that you set, you have to
(19:09):
first be clear that it'ssomething that you want. And
then when you commit to it, andyou're focused and disciplined.
And I know that from personalexperience.
Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, Iknow you have done amazing
things in your career and alsohelped others. I was curious if
(19:30):
you would next talk about justthis process of, of envisioning
what you want of putting it outthere. And I mean, really
articulating kind of the goaland then moving in that
direction. I think you've,you've given me a lot of
examples, and you've talked tome about, you know, you have to
(19:53):
you can't do something if youhaven't dreamed it, or Yeah,
rightnow, you know, notice about me,
and it's kind of just anexample. A lot of people over
the course of my career havesaid, you know, Michael, you've
really been really lucky. And myresponse has been, you know, I
appreciate that. But you knowwhat, honestly, luck has not had
(20:16):
a whole lot to do with it. Itreally hasn't. I mean, it's been
anything that I've accomplished,didn't happen by accident, it
happened by design, it happenedby choice. And you can't
reasonably accomplish somethingthat you haven't yet clearly
envisioned and within your ownmind. And an example of it, and
one that I'm very, very proudof, is when I was 34, I was
diagnosed with pretty muchadvanced emphysema because I was
(20:39):
a smoker, terrible, terriblething. I took up running as a
way to rehabilitate my lungs,and, you know, did my first
marathon after nine months aftersmoking two packs of camels for
many, many years, I mean, Ithought I was going to die. And
then the next year did anotherand basically does pretty
significant recovery in myhealth. But the ultimate was, I
(21:00):
was going to run 100 mile raceup in Leadville, Colorado, which
starts at 10,500 feet and goesup to 12,900 feet. And it's, you
know, the highest and mostdifficult 100 mile race in the
United States. And I set avision of, you know, running and
completing that race. And Ican't tell you the amount of
(21:20):
time and energy and painassociated with preparing for
that getting up in the middle ofthe night running through the
night, running in the snow goingfor, you know, 15 or 20 hours at
a time. And people would oftensay to me, are you crazy? Are
you nuts? Why would you want todo that? Well, for me, it was a,
it was kind of the pinnacle of along running career over, you
(21:41):
know, some 40 years. And soevery time I would be on the
trail and done it four differenttimes, every time I'd be on the
trail, it would be, you know,this pitch of night, and the
moon would not be out and itwould start raining. And it's
three o'clock in the morning,and you're just hurting so bad.
And you're in so much pain. Andyou're saying why are you doing
(22:02):
this? And what I would do is inmy mind is I would visualize the
finish line in Leadville,Colorado, with the finish batter
hanging up. And as soon as myhead went to pain in my body was
aching is it was all about painmanagement. And that is how do I
(22:22):
take my mind? And how do I takeit out of the presence and put
it into where I want to be. Andso getting that focused in my
head, and you crossed the finishline. And it wasn't pretty?
Yeah, difficult in business isvery, very much that way.
Helping people get clarity aboutwhat their Leadville finish
(22:44):
looks like, that could be a $10million business, that could be
a $50 million business. It's notabout the money. It's about the
journey, it's about thesatisfaction, it's about the
accomplishment. It's aboutmaking a difference in people's
lives. It's about creating acompany that you can be very
proud of. And you and I are verymuch in that sir, you and I
right now are very, very much inthat is our relationship is ever
(23:06):
so important to both you and me.
Because I know I know whatyou're going to create through
my help and involvement. But youknow, as I said to you a number
of times, I can see four or fiveyears out, you'll be better than
I ever was. And you will bebecause you've got such talent,
and such capability andincredible energy, great
(23:28):
intellect. So you've got all thetools, you know, the only
difference between you and I, asyou know, I've got 30 years more
experience, you know, and thatcan be helpful as we kind of
traverse our success trailtogether. No
question. I think you and I havea lot of good kind of symbiotic
moments of our differentstrengths. But yeah, you have a
(23:51):
wealth of knowledge on a lot ofdifferent things. So um, yeah,
it's it's a really interestingparallel you draw between the
running, you know, and just kindof putting that out there and
then doing the work because whatyou and I have been very
specific on is that we're notgoing to be be able to help
everyone, right? I mean, thereare some folks who might say,
(24:13):
like, I want that silver bullet,I want that magic fix, and
they're out there looking forwhat's the, what's the latest,
you know, snake oil that can fixall my problems. And you and I
are like, ah, that's not ourthing, because we believe that a
sustainable improvement up intothe right, which is our motto is
(24:35):
done through hard work throughdiscipline through dedication
through I would say probably apretty good amount of time.
Yeah, it's a journey. It is ajourney. That is true. Well,
man, I mean, I would say youknow, the, the things you've
(24:56):
done in your career have beenpretty amazing. I mean, the the
running included, I think youare an inspiration to me, as you
well know, you are aninspiration to many, many
others. And I think you and Ihave a lot of fun ahead of us. I
think it's up into the right forus as well. I think we're gonna
(25:18):
have a lot of good clients, andlots of good challenges from
them. And I look forwardto it. Same here. Yeah, making a
difference together is huge.
It's been great, and it's goingto be even better.
So as a wise man once taught meto ask, is there anything else
(25:38):
that you want to share with ourlisteners today that I maybe
didn't think to ask you?
I think real success is somebodywho, in business real success is
somebody who has put together abusiness or a company, or a
(26:00):
firm, where they make a very,very good living, they develop
the asset that they have, whichis their business. But they
recognize that the way in whichthey do that successfully is the
key to this business is aboutselecting the right people, and
having the right people in theright place. And people who
(26:25):
share a common set of values andpurpose, and that they are
intrinsically connected to thebusiness because it's not just a
living, they believe in what thebusiness does. They're committed
to what the business does. Theyfeel that they are an owner of
the business, whether they're anequity owner or not, that they
(26:45):
feel totally committed to whatthe business is all about. And
success is managing turnover. Agood business owner is one that
if somebody leaves yourbusiness, you ask the question,
Is there something I could havedone differently? That would
have kept that person in thecompany? Did I disappoint them?
Or did we fail somewhere. And ifsomebody leaves because their
(27:09):
spouse took another job inanother state, or somebody took
an opportunity, that was anopportunity, they just couldn't
refuse, God bless him. But ifpeople left your organization,
because they didn't feel valued,they didn't feel appreciated,
they didn't feel like they werecompensated fairly, they didn't
feel like they had a careertrack, shame on you. successes.
(27:30):
When you build a business whereyou got stability, you've got
people that are committed to ashared vision, and that they are
producing results. And you aresystematically growing and
building that business overtime. And that you get to a
place in your career, where youtruly have the choice of when
you want to work in the businessand how you want to work in the
(27:51):
business. I was just with a guylast week in Louisville,
Kentucky. And he's got a very,very, very successful
construction business inMichigan. And he transferred the
business over to his his son,and the son is now more
successful than he was. And hewas wildly successful. And I
watched the relationship betweenthe two of them. And the father
(28:13):
is 81 years old. And the son is51 years old. And watch the
chemistry between the two. Andyou talk about cool. I mean,
just a neat, neat experience ofand this father walks away. He's
got more money than God and hissons making more money than he
ever did. And they've got acompany where everyone's been
(28:34):
there a long time.
Bingo, that's beautiful. Bingo.
Because the real value of acompany, the real true value is
what do you create over the longterm? And do you either sell it?
Do you transfer it to anotherperson? Do you get paid out. But
the ultimate peak is when youget to a place where the
business is running veryeffectively, very efficiently
(28:58):
and independent of your activeinvolvement, where you have the
systems and the organization andthe people in place that are
just killing it, knocking it outof the park, that success.
It's great. It's great. Well,again, thank you for being
willing to be on the podcast.
Thank you for building abeautiful business that I'm
(29:21):
very, very proud of. And thatI'm hoping will have a very
lasting legacy for our coachesfor our clients. So thank you,
and I am excited to help clientswith you in the next couple of
days even so I'll see you inperson soon, which will be fun.
(29:41):
That's right. We'll be togetherfor a full week next week. And
we were together a couple ofweeks ago and looking forward to
it.
Me too, Michael, thank youagain. Okay. Bye. Thanks for
joining us, everybody. Thanks somuch for tuning into this
episode of level up yourbusiness with me Sarah Frank.
Scott if you have a problem inyour business that's keeping you
(30:04):
up at night please join us in afuture episode so we can help
get you unstuck just clickingthe link in the show notes and
send us a message pleaseremember stay innovative friends
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.