May 2, 2024 • 47 mins
Learn more about That Random Agency here: https://thatrandomagency.com/
Owning a business is a challenge. Knowing how to keep innovating in your business is an even bigger one. Join restaurant owner, motivational speaker, and innovation expert Sara Frasca each week as she guides fellow business owners in taking the next step to level up their business. If you've ever pondered hiring a business coach but want a sample first, come along for the adventure!
Send us a message to join the show for free business guidance: https://pointnortheast.com/contact-us/
Sara Frasca is the founder and owner of Trasca & Co Eatery in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida, an experienced and engaging motivational speaker, and the CEO of global business coaching firm Point NorthEast.
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
You're listening to level up your business, the
podcast where we talk tohardworking business owners and
leaders and help them solve realissues in real time. I'm your
host, Sarah Frasca restaurantowner, keynote speaker and
business coach. I've spent mycareer not only in corporate
(00:20):
America but also as anentrepreneur, carrying on my
family's legacy through myrestaurant. Now a business coach
and consultant. I'm helpingother businesses to use creative
problem solving and innovativethinking to drive lasting
change. Stay tuned to hear someinspiring guidance that will
(00:40):
help you to level up yourbusiness. And here we are. Well,
Brian Allen from random isjoining us today on the level up
your business podcast. I'm SarahFrasca. Ryan, thank you, again
for being willing to join us.
You're very welcome.
So you're coming to us fromDetroit, Michigan. This is
(01:01):
correct. Just to give thelisteners kind of a position in
their kind of mental map ofwhere you are in the world. So
how's the weather up theretoday?
So it's a beautiful day, it'slike upper 70s. Sunny, can't
beat can't complain? That'sawesome.
Okay, down to brass tacksfavorite tortured poets
(01:24):
department song.
Oh, I normally would not have ananswer to this. But however, I
do have an answer. Hey, let's gois the song Clara Bow?
Oh, okay. Excellent. I've notlistened to that one as much.
But now I will be attuned to it.
There'sa lot of songs on this album.
(01:46):
And so I don't blame you for notgetting there. Potentially.
It's later in the album. I'mkind of focused on the first
few. All right. But in allhonesty, let's start out with
just a little bit of an intro. Imean, I know you well, just
because you're a part of ourteams, and I mean, multiple
teams. And today, I reallywanted to focus on how business
(02:09):
leaders can better use theirpartners. And so you know,
you're coming from random, amarketing agency out of Detroit,
one that I love and have usednow for years and you know,
you're a part of several of thedifferent businesses that I'm a
part of, as well. So pointnortheast, obviously and Trask a
business and then also the kindof Sarah Frasca speaking
(02:31):
business. So can you tee up forus a little bit of your
background? And how did you getto this spot and this business
and what you're doing? Yeah,no problem. So I have a pretty
unconventional career path. Youknow, I went to school, I went
to college for journalism. Afterschool, I started writing for
different entertainment basedmagazines in Detroit. And
(02:53):
decided that I would, instead ofworking a full time job, I would
rather be in a rock and rollband and go on tour. And so I
spent many years touring in aband. But that is a tough thing
to sustain. So once I realizedthat being broke, was
(03:15):
challenging, I got myself backinto a career path that made a
little bit more sense to me. Sohad some different kinds of
jobs. Some are like training,you know, specific, I worked at
the Apple Store as a trainer forfor a good part of my career,
and then transitioned intomarketing. So worked with one of
(03:36):
our co founders, John Patterson,at an agency, and, you know,
definitely collect with him.
Worked at that agency for abouta year. And then I worked in
franchising for about eightyears, I worked for goldfish
swim school, on the marketingteam. And my job, kind of, you
(03:59):
know, it's very Kismet with thesubject matter of this podcast
was to manage different digitalmarketing vendors. So I'm very
passionate about therelationship that vendors and
businesses have. And so, youknow, I know we'll get into that
more in a bit. But after workingfor a goldfish for your I
(04:19):
transition, or for eight years,rather, I transitioned into real
estate management, which aremarketing rather, I should say,
which is a whole other, youknow, ball of wax to kind of
wrap my head around, and thenfelt the pull back to wanting to
be at an agency again. So I'vebeen at random now for about a
year. I'm the MarketingDirector. My role is kind of a
(04:43):
little bit of everything frommanaging the team, to managing
you know, relationships, such asthe one we have with you and
your businesses, Sara. And, youknow, I just love working here.
It's a really amazing culture.
Super, you know, lucky and proudto be a part of the brand had a
team and also to be a part ofthe Center for Aska universe as
well.
(05:05):
Oh, I don't know if it's as bigas the universe, but thank you.
That's, that's kind, we sure arehappy you guys are a part of it.
Okay, so, you know, I think thatleads us into the question of I
mean, what do you, becauseyou've been on both the client
side and the agency side, Imean, what makes the magic of a
(05:26):
well orchestrated relationship?
Well, there's a lot ofingredients to it, as you
probably can guess, you know,the, the first one that comes to
mind, to me is trying to find avendor that you really feel like
there's a potential for a truepartnership, partnership gets
(05:48):
thrown around, I think as a, asa word as a concept, quite often
these days, but sometimesdoesn't always come to fruition.
And so to really get to a pointwhere partnership is, you know,
a back and forth, it'scollaborative, you know, it's
respectful, you have to ask theright questions, you have to,
(06:10):
you know, make sure that they'relike checking off your, you
know, cultural boxes, so tospeak, and make sure that, you
know, they are committed to thesame goals, that you are, you
know, attempting to communicateto them, it's a lot easier said
than done. But that certainly iskind of the first place, I would
(06:31):
say, most businesses shouldstart is, you know, really
having an internal, almost likecultural like Foundation, where,
you know, if this partner, orthis potential vendor isn't, you
know, checking those culturalboxes, we need to move on, from
that partnership, or we need tomake sure as we're searching,
(06:51):
that we use that as ourbarometer, to, you know,
continue with with arelationship or start a new
relationship. So that would benumber one. Number two, probably
no surprises, communication,communication, when it comes to
partnership is vital. I'll useyou know, your team, as a great
example, Sarah, you know, James,on your team is really a great
(07:17):
communicator, he has no problemhopping on the phone, you know,
whether it's phone, text,message, email, you know, using
different tools to communicate,the dedication to communication
is so important. And, you know,it's not just like, text
messages or, you know, emailsback and forth, it's the
(07:40):
substance of the communication,the respect for the individuals
involved, is also incrediblyimportant, you know, everybody's
busy, everybody's got a millionthings going on at once, you
know, and so, being respectfulof of that, I think, is really,
really key, you know, askingquestions, like, you know, and
(08:00):
this, again, it's a partnership,right, so us as the vendor, you
know, we need to be askingquestions like, when do you need
it by, you know, really makingsure that the expectations are
communicated and understood, inorder for people to feel a, that
the vendor or the client, youknow, cares about getting it
(08:22):
done on time, and making surethat you meet your deadlines,
and be, you know, making surethat it fits into the priority
list. So communication is, isincredibly, incredibly
important. And then I guess thethird thing is organization, you
know, making sure that there's astructure, there's some kind of,
(08:43):
you know, tool or, or philosophyor whatever gets applied, that
holds people accountable. Sonobody feels let down.
Partnerships tend to fail whenpeople feel like they're asking,
you know, for assistance withsomething, insight, whatever it
is, and, you know, if that ifthat continues to fall through
(09:05):
the cracks, it's going to affectthe trust in the relationship
between those two parties. Andwithout organization and
organizational, you know,approach or aesthetic being
applied to the partnership,things can get out of hand
really, really quickly andeasily. So that's, you know, a
great example is having a weeklymeeting, you know, where
(09:26):
there's, you know, the theability to touch base and, you
know, add clarity to what'sgoing on, it could be, you know,
a simple, you know, tool like,you know, we use something
called 90 to keep ourselvesorganized and on track. So, you
know, I think those threepillars really set a very solid
(09:47):
foundation to make sure thatthat partnership is strong, and
that everybody's kind of tosteal a line from you, you know,
moving up into the right insteadof the opposite to right
Question.
That's great. Thank you, Ryan.
That is a is a trademarkedtagline. So I'll send you an
invoice. Yeah, that's fine.
(10:08):
Okay. All right. I'm teasingyou. Alright, somebody else?
I'll have somebody else pay forit. Okay, well,
okay, so the reason for, youknow, this topic, in my opinion,
I would say a lot of our pointne clients have partners, they
have vendors, or they havepeople in their midst, that are
(10:28):
doing their accounting, ortheir, you know, tax work, or
their marketing work or whateverelse. And so, you know, I find
that it's not always built ofthe same type of partnership
that I like to have, whichagain, you know, we have a
really solid one built on a lotof the things that you talked
about. And so I want themlistening, I want I want these
(10:51):
clients listening for the cuesof what am I doing right with
the people who are doing a partof my business who are doing
work on behalf of my brand, orare, you know, interacting with
my people, because a goodpartnership versus a kind of
stomped upon vendor can create avery different work product. And
(11:17):
just to hover on that for amoment, you know, I have been on
the agency side, in fact, Iwould say I'm on the agency
side, right now. With pointnortheast, we serve clients, we
are a service basedorganization, if we are not
serving, we fall flat on ournoses, right. I mean, we have to
serve first, I also have been onthe client side. And again, I'm
(11:39):
on the client side right now.
But I would say I learned theclient side at General Mills all
those years ago. And I got tosee what it is like when someone
really empowers their partners,versus stomps on their vendors.
And again, I use those two wordsas a really good kind of
comparison of the thoughtprocess, in my opinion, of
leveraging outside talentoutside help you're, you're
(12:02):
bringing people in to be a partof your world, and you can treat
them like dirt, or you can treatthem like respected work product
partners. So talk a little bitabout if you don't mind, maybe
I've examples. And I certainlydon't need names, but some maybe
examples of how that comes tolife?
(12:25):
Absolutely. So I kind of putthis concept in two categories,
there's sort of thephilosophical side of it, and
then there's the more liketactical, you know, like, what
are we actually doing side ofit. So I'll talk about the
philosophical side first, itreally comes down to empathy.
You know, I know that word isalso thrown around a lot. But
(12:48):
truly having empathy, bothparties, having empathy for one
another, is so incrediblyimportant. It's it's one of
randoms core values. And fact,is to, and, you know, we take
partnership extremely seriously.
But you can't get there, if youdon't have empathy for the, the
entity that you're workingalongside of, and with. And it's
(13:10):
a lot easier said than done. Butyou can get to that empathetic
place, through transparentcommunication again, you know,
you can get to that empatheticplace, through, you know,
spending a little bit of timetrying to understand the
processes, that the other side,you know, of the of the
(13:33):
relationship needs to go throughto get, you know, your
deliverable delivered to you.
You know, there are some timeswhere it'd be great if, you
know, a vendor was able to justkind of, you know, sidestep a
few steps or processes along theway to get, you know, the client
(13:53):
what they need quicker, but theend result might not be as good
because it's not being funneledthrough the process that it
needs to be funneled through inorder for the end product to be,
you know, as close to beingperfect, which we know is never
a possibility, but it's close tobeing, you know, I guess
(14:14):
approved by the client, Isuppose, as you can as you can
get it. So, you know, explainingwhat those processes are and
making sure that the partnerthat you're working with
understands, you know, you don'tneed to give them every single
detail. But it helps tounderstand and helps again to
empathize with one another, whenyou have some understanding of
(14:39):
what it takes to get to the endproduct or what it takes to, you
know, get to where you're tryingto go together. So I think
that's hugely important and youknow, that comes that that is
something that I don't know ifit can be completely and totally
taught. Of course, it can be,you know, communicated in turn
(15:00):
Only and, you know, the culturecan be sort of set up that way,
but it almost takes like, theindividuals, you know, involve,
to really, you know, peel backthe veil a little bit, and I
don't need to know everythingabout you, for example, Sara and
your life, but I do know thatyour mom, you know, I do know
that you, you have multiplebusinesses, I do know that
(15:21):
you're running teams, I do know,you know, that there's factors
involved. So I take those thingsinto consideration, you know,
when, you know, you might beowing me something, you know,
and hopefully, those the same,you know, is done on the client
side, you know, so, so, withoutkind of babbling on and on about
(15:42):
that, I really, truly think thatrelationship building, you know,
having, again, someopportunities to talk about
process to get to know yourclient or your or your vendor, a
little bit. And, you know, wedon't need to be best friends.
But we should get to a pointwhere there's a mutual respect
and understanding. So ifsomething does come up, you
(16:03):
know, if somebody's kid, youknow, get sick or something like
that, like there's, there's alevel of empathy that can be
deployed. So it's like, okay, Iget it, you know, like you, this
was unexpected. And, you know,but that's just bumped the
deadline, you know, to a timethat makes sense, because you
have to take care of somethingin your personal life. So good.
(16:24):
That's, that's,I think, I would agree. 100%,
when do you think a partner doestheir best work?
I think a partner does theirbest work when they're not
micromanaged. But their buttheir client, or their, the
(16:45):
vendor is available to answerquestions to give good insight.
And again, it kind of comes backto process like, what is the
what is the process to, youknow, approve content, for
example, like, you know, randomis a digital marketing agency,
we create social media content,we create websites, we run email
(17:05):
campaigns, I'm just doing theplug for random here. But, you
know, we are a full servicedigital agency. And so, you
know, a lot of the work that wedo, you know, is trying to
interpret the, the goals and theobjectives of our partners. And,
you know, we're not necessarilythe experts in any of the areas
(17:29):
in which we, you know, I mean,of course, we've got, you know,
credibility and knowledge, and,you know, whether it's a finance
finance related client, or arestaurant or whatever, you
know, we have some background inthose things. And, of course,
you know, want to make sure thatpeople are working on those
accounts that do, but if wedon't, it really does help if
(17:52):
the partner on the other end isavailable for education is
available for answeringquestions. So that way, we're
not making things up, we're nottrying to guess, you know, what
are they? What do they want? Youknow, we can just ask, you know,
so I think, again, thatcollaboration, that
communication really helps getthe best work possible. And it
(18:13):
just comes down to thewillingness to be available to
demystify or add clarity, towhatever is being worked on,
because that's where I think alot of, of these relationships
start to really fall is whenthere's no clarity, there's no
direction, it's super confusing,you know, so the more clarity
(18:36):
and the more you know, juststraightforward, which is not
always a skill of mine, but astraightforward communication of
this is what we're looking for.
This is what we need. This iswhen we need a buy. And then you
know, reciprocated, okay, wethis makes sense. We understand
or, Hey, I don't understand. Letme check for understanding. Now.
We're now we're dancing. Right?
(18:59):
Yeah, like, right, and now it'sless of a like, you do this for
me. Here's like, three wordsthat you have to sort of, like,
build your whole strategy on,you know, now we're now you
know, now we're, we're, we'reballroom dancing. You know,
we're we're in that partnership,in a really solid way.
(19:21):
Yeah, no, that's great. I likethe analogy of dancing. I also
have used, like, if you're in avolleyball match, and you're
thinking of like, Oh, I'mpassing it over to you. And now
Now you're putting it back over.
It's not very, it's clunky. It'sjust it's not orchestrated
versus dancing or rowing in thesame direction. I mean, now
(19:42):
we're actually a team movingtogether. So yeah, I agree with
that. You know, I was going tojust comment on the
micromanaging for a momentbecause I do find that clients
are so controlling or they're sonervous. They're frightful, that
someone will not take theirbusiness and hold it that you
(20:05):
know, kind of in a sacred weighttected and care for it and all
of those sorts of things. Sosometimes it does take a moment.
But I remember back to myGeneral Mills days, and I used
to call this moving theblueberry because I was working
at the time for Pillsbury, andwe had blueberry muffins. And I
remember I was doing the photoshoot. And the person that was
(20:27):
involved in the photo shoot wasliterally, you know, saying, Oh,
we have to reshoot it, we haveto move the blueberry, you know,
it has to go over a little bit,was like, Oh, my word. And so I
think that it was a veryvaluable lesson for me this
moving the blueberry philosophywas, is it actually making a
substantial enough difference toannoy everybody else on the
(20:51):
project. And so it's a littlebit more of this, like, here's
what I'm going for. I want adelicious, warm, hot, beautiful
blueberry muffin. And at thatpoint, you are actually
inspiring the team, you'rebringing the creatives in so
that they can be a part of thismission and goal and vision
versus like, Oh, my word. Like,they're nitpicking and
(21:15):
micromanaging every singlething, which is just such the
reverse, emotional reaction forme, like I can have a visceral
reaction to that kind of liketeeing it up, and you're the
boss, and you're the expert. Andlet's go get this big mission.
Versus, Oh, great. Now I'm, youknow, now somebody's telling me,
I got to put the word over hereand bold that letter and do this
(21:37):
and absolutely,yeah, well, we're both parents.
So I think of I think of therelationship between client and
vendor, as you know, parentchild sometimes. And you know,
as parents, it can be verychallenging, first of all, so,
(21:57):
you know, to make the analogy,when you get into a relationship
with a vendor, there's riskinvolved, just in the same way
as if you have a child, there isrisk involved immediately, you
know, even before they're born,there's risk involved. And the
nurturing that you do, as aparent is very similar to the
nurturing that can be done, whenit comes to the relationship
(22:21):
between, you know, twobusinesses that are trying to
work together, right. So whetherit's client, vendor, vendor
client, however you want to, youknow, put those in order. But,
you know, as a parent, youreally need to understand where
to interject your parenting, andwhere to allow the child to
(22:42):
discover, grow, you know, maybemake a mistake or two along the
way, without being right thereto catch every time they fall.
And, similarly, you know, whenit comes to the relationship
between vendors and, andclients, you know, again, like I
(23:03):
said, there's, there's riskinvolved, there's risks
involved, because there's arelationship, there's risk
involved, because there's, youknow, the will obviously, the
financial component of it, butthere's even risk involved when
it comes to word of mouth, youknow, I mean, you have a bad
experience with a, with a vendoror with a client, you know,
(23:26):
those things tend to get around.
So there's a lot to nurture anda lot to, like, want to, you
know, be mindful of and takecare of, but you also have to
figure out when it's necessaryto really get your hands dirty,
and when to allow, in the caseof if we're saying, client,
(23:46):
allow a vendor to, you know,have some discovery on their
own, to, you know, figure outhow to best you know, represent
the brand. You know, you've gotto trust that the credibility
that they have you hired themfor a reason, you know, is
enough to, you know, not feellike you have to get your hands
(24:08):
on it to the point where you'reactually diluting the creative
energy and and juices that gointo some of this type of work.
Yeah, it's a lot easier saidthan done, you know, and I
empathize with clients who dofeel compelled to micromanage
(24:31):
you know, and micromanagesometimes, I mean, it's, it's
certainly like, a bad word inthe in the business world. And,
you know, nobody likes to have aboss who micromanages them, you
know, no one's gonna, like, ifyou were like, hey, raise your
hand if you'd like to work forsomebody who's like intensely,
you know, committed tomicromanaging everybody, no one
(24:53):
would raise their hand. However,two things one I understand and
empathize with Clients who feellike they have to, like you kind
of said, like, hold, you know,it's like a robin's egg, you
know, nests, it's so fragile,you don't want it to break.
Because, you know, as a businessowner, you know, use COVID as an
(25:14):
example, like, that wascompletely unexpected, and all
of a sudden, the world wasupside down. And, you know, I
know that you as a restaurant,were, were probably feeling that
unexpected event super hard. Andit's kind of, it's almost like,
okay, like, we're in like anemergency situation here. So I
(25:36):
need to make sure I know what'sgoing on with every single piece
of everything. These vendorsthat we're working with, you
know, they need to be, you know,plugged into what we need to be
doing here. So, you know, it'syour baby, like, I totally get
that, you know, and not to go onand on about it, but I do
empathize with it, it's just,you know, really takes in this
(26:00):
is kind of like, you know,whether it's done in a formal or
informal way, it takes goodfeedback and good open
communication. Gino Wickman, whowrote the EOS book that I know
you're familiar with, he callsit truth and bourbon, where, you
know, it's like, I'm gonna giveyou you know, some hard truth
here. And I'm not trying toupset you, you might want to
(26:22):
take a shot of bourbon to hear,but the idea is that like, okay,
like, this might be hard tohear, but I need to communicate
it with you and give youfeedback about this. So we can,
you know, get on the same pageand this and so if that is like,
I want to, as the vendor want tomake sure that you trust me,
(26:49):
here are the ways that that canwork. Right, you know, and vice
versa. Like, if in order for meas the client to trust you, I
need you to do these things.
Right. So like I said, easiersaid than done, but but it can,
it can work. And it can happenwith good communication.
Yeah, no, that's great. I mean,little things to kind of add up
to building that trust. And I'mjust going to bring this, you
(27:14):
know, as as an example, becausetoo often I find that our
clients are not doing goodbehavior on this. So I try to
coach them in the background.
But, you know, if if I had myphone, and you didn't know that
I was paying attention to you,you now have lost trust in me,
like, what is she doing, it's soimportant that she's not paying
attention, or, you know,something else must be more
(27:37):
important than me. And I thinkthat's a two way street, both
the client and the partner, youknow, the agency both need to be
completely mindful, completelydistracted, and kind of in the
zone, in order for each to feelthe respect and the trust.
Another one is just keeping eachother in the loop. You talked
(27:58):
about communication early on,but I think there's a big trust
factor here, where you're, youknow, really kind of bringing
them in and they become a partof it versus just, oh, now
downstream, I'm just going totell you, I need this. Well, why
do you need that and what youknow, so there's some trust in
that. I think the other thing,again, I'm trying to even just
(28:20):
break it down into the microcolumns of this being on time, I
mean, I remember again, justbeing a, you know, person
waiting in the lobby at amassive organization, you know,
and it's like, oh, my gosh,they're two hours late, and I,
I'm just gonna keep sitting hereuntil they come and get me and,
(28:41):
you know, it's, it's a verydisrespectful feeling. I think
in that moment of like, wow, Imust be so unimportant to them,
that they can't even come andget me from the lobby, when they
said they would come and get me,you know, things like that.
Yeah,I feel like, you know, there's a
lot of fear, really kind of,like underlying a lot of these
(29:01):
vendor client relationships,fear on both sides. You know, I
mean, what am I like not to turnthis into a therapy session, but
like, one of my biggest, youknow, kind of concerns is always
I don't want to let anybodydown. You know, I don't want to
let myself down. I don't want tolet my family down. I don't want
to let my coworkers down, like,whatever it is, but, but
certainly, when it comes to, youknow, work and the relationships
(29:24):
that, you know, are involved inwork in work, working
relationships, you know, lettingsomebody down to me as an
individual is probably the worstfeeling in the world. And so I
think doing those little things,like if you get an email, and
it's, you know, asking you aquestion that you might not have
(29:47):
the answer to, in that moment,writing that, you know,
individual back and saying, Hey,I'm not exactly sure in This
moment what the answer to yourquestion is, but I am going to
find out and get back to you atthis day, you know, at this
time, whatever, going that extramile and at least acknowledging
(30:09):
like, Hey, I have a question. Iknow you're busy, but you know,
it's the classic, like, did youget my email? When you're
working in office? Like, did youget my email about whatever it
is, and if it's like two daysago, and you never responded,
you know, well, I wouldn't blamethe person for asking if you got
(30:30):
that email, you know, so even ifyou couldn't get to it right
away, just taking a minute or asecond, even just acknowledging
the person on the other side,the client or the vendor,
whatever side of this fenceyou're on, that goes a long way.
And it's those little thingsthat really do add up to to
building that trust, like youkind of extra,
(30:52):
that's great. I mean, it's it'sgood behavior. And again, we
would teach our kids to do thesethings. But sometimes when we
get into the working day, it canfall by the wayside. And so
again, my cautionary tale toeveryone is just, if you have a
partner relationship, same withan employee, but I would say
it's really important to buildthat trust, and that's done
(31:13):
through those little teeny tinythings.
It's yeah, it's acknowledgementto I think that's the other
thing, like, once a project iscompleted, you know, this is
something that I think you'rereally, really good at. And
something that we try to do atrandom as well, is really
acknowledge the efforts that arebeing made, you know, you don't
have to win an award in order tofeel like it's necessary to
(31:36):
acknowledge the efforts, youknow, we've worked on some
projects with you, for example,where, you know, the, the
feeling of like, we madesomething that the person who
hired us to make this thing islike, 100% happy with. And we
(31:56):
know that because they gave usthat feedback, they communicated
with that with us, you know,that sense, that sends you into
the next project with, you know,good vibes positivity. And, you
know, just an inspiration,honestly, to continue to, you
know, do your best work. So, so,I think it's really important
(32:19):
that vendors and clients, thepartnership has an element of
feedback and an element ofacknowledging the work that went
into something in order to mean,make sure that that relationship
in that bond is strong. Becauseeventually, if you don't know
how things are going, it'sreally hard to gauge, not only
(32:42):
like, I guess it's hard to gaugewhat the person wants, at a
certain point, like, it becomesmore murky. And it's also hard,
because you start, likequestioning yourself, and in
second guessing, and, and thatcan be a tough place to be
mentally. Yeah. So, yeah,acknowledgement and feedback are
(33:03):
really imperative. I think,I think that's a really good
point. I mean, talk about thefear of failure as a as a, an
agency doing work on behalf ofclients. I mean, how big does
that play a role in your output?
Your energy level? I mean, whatwhat does that look like?
(33:26):
That's a good question. Because,you know, it depends, I guess,
on the culture of the agency,and if, if you're, you know,
even in like a phase of thebusiness where you're struggling
a bit, you know, maybe to getclients or whatever, that's
certainly going to inform that,that fear of failure, because
now it's like, urgent, you know,but that aside, I think it's
(33:52):
something you have toacknowledge is there and
balance, but not let overtakeyou, you know, you can't, you
can't allow that feel offailure, failure to get in the
way of trying something new ormaking a suggestion, because,
you know, ultimately, thosesuggestions are the things that
could ignite, you know, an ideaor a project or an initiative
(34:13):
that changes the business forthe better. You know, an example
of that is in I mean, I don'tknow if this is like, common
knowledge or something, butlike, a franchisee for subway
suggested the $5 footlong thatwas not like a corporate
brainstormed, you know, or amarketing agency that
brainstormed it. It was afranchisees doing the math and
(34:37):
saying, like, we could sell, youknow, this sandwich cheaply.
It's a great, you know,obviously like marketing angle
to it. But, you know, I thinkthis can work and I'm going to
take the feel of fear of failureand push it aside and talk to I
need to talk to you to make thesuggestion and now everybody
(34:57):
knows, I mean, that's theirwhole Marketing, you know? Yeah,
for a long time, right. So allthat took with somebody speaking
up and not being afraid to makea suggestion and, and not being
afraid of getting theirsuggestion, you know, thrown in
the garbage and taking, they'reshooting their shots, so to
(35:18):
speak. So I think, you know,it's very easy to get caught up
in that fear of fear, fear offailure mindset. However, it's
important to trust yourinstincts, it's important to
lean on your expertise, it'simportant to ultimately, like
(35:41):
use the credibility that youhave, again, you know, you were
hired for a reason, if you'rethe vendor. And so, you know,
you, you need to kind of, likelean on some of these things in
order to not get like, in thatdark place. Yeah. But it's,
again, it's easier said thandone sometimes. Well,
(36:01):
and I would say, you know, maybespeaking from the client side,
for a minute here, if youinstill a fear of failure in
your partners, you havehandcuffed them, I mean, I would
say, you know, the intention ofbringing in an outside group, in
my opinion, is that you probablydon't have the necessarily the
(36:22):
resources to be able to haveyour own marketing team. And so
I'll just use the example of,you know, we use random because
we can get high level strategicmarketing, all the way down to
the executional, posting on oursocial media, managing the
content, you know, building thewebsite, those things. So, I
mean, for me to do that, foreither of my businesses, it's
(36:44):
just not an expense that I wantto undertake, it would be
foolish of me to bring on, youknow, three, four people just to
do marketing at this stage,nor do you maybe even have the
bandwidth for it to manage it.
Right. So it's, yeah, there's alot of factors and to consider
and, you know, like, the outsideperspective, you know, again,
(37:06):
it's, it's a, it's fine line,because the, the vendor doesn't,
always isn't always going to bean expert, in whatever, you
know, industry, their client is,is is, you know, working in and
so, there is this kind of, like,conversation that happens a lot
(37:27):
where it's like, you know, we'remaybe maybe not the experts in
how to run a restaurant, but weare experts in social media,
right. So that again, you know,going back to the like, respect
concept, yes. Like, I respectthat you are the expert in
running a restaurant. And so, Imay have an idea here and there,
(37:48):
and how to, like, improve aprocess or whatever, but like,
you are the expert, you've builtthat credibility, we're the
experts in the content creation,you know, we can certainly,
like, offer suggestions to oneanother, that, you know, can be
very helpful. So, you know, youhave to have a amount of
humbleness and openness in orderto really cultivate a good
(38:12):
vendor client relationship. Andthat's on both sides. But it's
at least, you know, respectagain, to that base level of,
hey, you know, you hired us fora reason. Yeah. And we're
working with you, or, and wewant to work with you for a
reason. So there's that baselevel is established. You know,
(38:32):
again, it comes back to theconcept, I guess, of like the
micromanagement. Yeah, the fearmongering, is also something
I've seen done, you know,throughout my career, where
you're establishing this, like,if you make a mistake, then your
ass is on the line kind ofmentality that says, you know,
(38:52):
really not a great place foranyone to work in. And a lot of
people lean on that, with theidea that if I, if I instill
that fear, then they're going todo it, right. And they're going
to get it done on time. Andthey're going to be afraid of my
reaction. If it's not done theway that I think it should be.
Right. And that never works. Youknow, it's not sustainable.
(39:17):
Unfortunately, you know, thereare instances where people do
lean into that. And, and yousaid stomped on early, I've seen
that happen, you know, and it'seasy to stomp on a vendor. And I
And again, like as to havingbeen on the client side, I've
been in situations and I've evendone the stopping and have felt
(39:39):
terrible about it later, becauseit never helped, you know, it
was maybe I was frustrated, andI came at, you know, or I
accused or we came at oraccused. But now, you know, the
the applecart has been upset alittle bit. And so you have to
be very careful. You When Whenfear is a fear is a is a, it's,
(40:06):
it's a weapon, and it can beweaponized. And it's certainly
helps in, like, if you're, youknow, fighting a war, I guess,
but like that shouldn't thatshouldn't be what a vendor
client relationship feels like,totally a great, I would say,
instilling a fear of failure inyour agency or partner does a
(40:27):
lot of harm and no good in myopinion. And I think what we are
leaning on, outside partners foris to see the industry and, you
know, you brought up the exampleof social media, how in the
world could I be an expert onsocial media? I mean, it is
almost changing daily, right? Ican know enough to be dangerous,
(40:49):
but there's no way that I knowwhat the Google AI algorithm is,
I know what the different, Imean, I literally can't even
keep up with all the tools. So Iam looking for someone to bring
that expertise. But if I instilla fear of failure, they're not
going to have the ability, orinterest to test and learn to
(41:10):
bring in, hey, we're seeingpeople do this, would you be
interested in trying this? Andso, again, I think, you know,
it's really this open. And youuse the term humbleness. But I
would, I would say, justopenness in general to, you're
the expert in the things thatyou're the expert in, tell me
what's out there. And what Ishould be looking at help me
(41:33):
know, if there are things thatare out there in the world, it
might be another industry, itmight be another tool that I'm
just not attuned to, and how canwe kind of fold that in as an
idea, we may test and learn it,or we may implement it. But if I
say that's the responsibility ofthe vendor, right to take very
(41:59):
seriously, and I thinksometimes, whether there's a
fear of failure involved or not,coming from the client side,
let's say, there might be justan intrinsic feel fear of
failure, that it just exists,not based on like something that
the client did or said, right.
But you got to get over that,you know, you got to get past
(42:22):
that, and you have to speak up,and you have to bring those
things to your client, in orderto continue to cultivate that
trust in that relationship. Soif you're not, if you're
withholding information, ifyou're not, you know, letting
you know, like, for example, webrought like, an option to the
restaurant to create, like ascannable. Basically, like a TAP
(42:44):
card that's on the tables of therestaurant to submit a Google
review, very easily, it helps,you know, build up that
credibility for the restaurant,it makes it easy for the the
guest to submit a review. Or,you know, another idea was, you
(43:04):
know, should we look into Ecommerce for the merchandise,
you know, and of course,there's, you know, and you've
been brought up, I'll just usethis as a real example. You're
like, Yeah, it sounds great. Butmy concern is fulfillment. You
know, my concern is, like, if Ihave to mail these out, like,
what is my process for that? Youknow, so, but bringing that
(43:24):
conversation to the table,having that discussion, you
know, it's the responsibilityof, in my opinion of the vendor
to bring those things to thetable. So it isn't just a one
sided relationship where theclient is thinking, like, I have
to continue to ask you to dothings or, you know, there needs
(43:46):
to be a back and forth there to,you know, earlier analogies,
yeah,no, that's great. The dancing.
All right. Well, um, Ryan, Imean, thank you. Again, I feel
like you have such a balancedperspective, because you've been
on both sides of the table. And,you know, I have as well and am
currently in the differentdifferent roles in different
(44:10):
businesses. And I just, I wantto thank you for your
partnership. I mean, I thinkit's been just a really lovely,
lovely relationship. I obviouslyadore your owner, who I've
worked with in the past. And Ilove Alison, who is one of our
account folks, and I love all ofthem. But, you know, I just
think you have such goodhearted, sincerely, wonderful,
talented people. And so I just,you know, I really, I credit a
(44:35):
lot of our success to the factthat we found you brought you on
and I mean, we're all I thinkhaving fun doing it. So
I agree, it's a lot of fun, andyou guys are wonderful to work
with and for and, you know,every example and everything
that I've said this entire time,you guys are, you know,
(44:56):
exemplify all the positive, youknow, aspect So what we've
talked about, and so I think thethe Treska. And point ne teams
are great examples of how totruly have a partnership that is
organic, and unforced andtransparent and authentic. You
(45:17):
know, I mean, again, these wordsget used very freely, you know,
we're talking about thesethings, but it's another thing
to, to exemplify it with action.
So, you know, I can't say enoughgood things about you guys. And
well, we appreciate being partof the team.
Thank you. You forgot to mentionthat. I'm funny.
(45:38):
You are funny.
I'm teasing you. All right.
Well, Ryan, thank you again, foreverything. Thank you for being
part of this. And thank you foryour partnership. I look forward
to many, many moons of furthersuccess with you and your team.
So thanks for answering thesegreat questions. I hope that
some of our clients and someothers out there are thinking,
(46:00):
Gosh, I couldn't do things in alittle bit better way to empower
and to really, you know,emblazon the hearts and minds of
our partners so that they can dotheir best work, which
ultimately is a win win, right?
We're all kind of connected inthis. We do better together. All
boats will rise. So indeed,Ryan. All right. Have a great
(46:23):
day, everybody. Thanks again forbeing here, Ryan. And, as
always, you know, here to helpfrom a point northeast business
or just even personally, if Ican help someone with their
business. I always like to sayyou're not alone out there. So
if you're struggling withsomething like find someone to
ask questions of a mentor orjust me so you just call me if
you need help. Alright. Have agood day, Ryan. You too.
(46:48):
Goodbye. Thanks so much fortuning in to this episode of
level up your business with me,Sara Frasca. If you have a
problem in your business that'skeeping you up at night. Please
join us in a future episode sowe can help get you unstuck.
Just clicking the link in theshow notes and send us a
message. Please remember, stayinnovative friends.
You're listening to level up your business, the
podcast where we talk tohardworking business owners and
leaders and help them solve realissues in real time. I'm your
host, Sarah Frasca restaurantowner, keynote speaker and
business coach. I've spent mycareer not only in corporate
(00:20):
America but also as anentrepreneur, carrying on my
family's legacy through myrestaurant. Now a business coach
and consultant. I'm helpingother businesses to use creative
problem solving and innovativethinking to drive lasting
change. Stay tuned to hear someinspiring guidance that will
(00:40):
help you to level up yourbusiness. And here we are. Well,
Brian Allen from random isjoining us today on the level up
your business podcast. I'm SarahFrasca. Ryan, thank you, again
for being willing to join us.
You're very welcome.
So you're coming to us fromDetroit, Michigan. This is
(01:01):
correct. Just to give thelisteners kind of a position in
their kind of mental map ofwhere you are in the world. So
how's the weather up theretoday?
So it's a beautiful day, it'slike upper 70s. Sunny, can't
beat can't complain? That'sawesome.
Okay, down to brass tacksfavorite tortured poets
(01:24):
department song.
Oh, I normally would not have ananswer to this. But however, I
do have an answer. Hey, let's gois the song Clara Bow?
Oh, okay. Excellent. I've notlistened to that one as much.
But now I will be attuned to it.
There'sa lot of songs on this album.
(01:46):
And so I don't blame you for notgetting there. Potentially.
It's later in the album. I'mkind of focused on the first
few. All right. But in allhonesty, let's start out with
just a little bit of an intro. Imean, I know you well, just
because you're a part of ourteams, and I mean, multiple
teams. And today, I reallywanted to focus on how business
(02:09):
leaders can better use theirpartners. And so you know,
you're coming from random, amarketing agency out of Detroit,
one that I love and have usednow for years and you know,
you're a part of several of thedifferent businesses that I'm a
part of, as well. So pointnortheast, obviously and Trask a
business and then also the kindof Sarah Frasca speaking
(02:31):
business. So can you tee up forus a little bit of your
background? And how did you getto this spot and this business
and what you're doing? Yeah,no problem. So I have a pretty
unconventional career path. Youknow, I went to school, I went
to college for journalism. Afterschool, I started writing for
different entertainment basedmagazines in Detroit. And
(02:53):
decided that I would, instead ofworking a full time job, I would
rather be in a rock and rollband and go on tour. And so I
spent many years touring in aband. But that is a tough thing
to sustain. So once I realizedthat being broke, was
(03:15):
challenging, I got myself backinto a career path that made a
little bit more sense to me. Sohad some different kinds of
jobs. Some are like training,you know, specific, I worked at
the Apple Store as a trainer forfor a good part of my career,
and then transitioned intomarketing. So worked with one of
(03:36):
our co founders, John Patterson,at an agency, and, you know,
definitely collect with him.
Worked at that agency for abouta year. And then I worked in
franchising for about eightyears, I worked for goldfish
swim school, on the marketingteam. And my job, kind of, you
(03:59):
know, it's very Kismet with thesubject matter of this podcast
was to manage different digitalmarketing vendors. So I'm very
passionate about therelationship that vendors and
businesses have. And so, youknow, I know we'll get into that
more in a bit. But after workingfor a goldfish for your I
(04:19):
transition, or for eight years,rather, I transitioned into real
estate management, which aremarketing rather, I should say,
which is a whole other, youknow, ball of wax to kind of
wrap my head around, and thenfelt the pull back to wanting to
be at an agency again. So I'vebeen at random now for about a
year. I'm the MarketingDirector. My role is kind of a
(04:43):
little bit of everything frommanaging the team, to managing
you know, relationships, such asthe one we have with you and
your businesses, Sara. And, youknow, I just love working here.
It's a really amazing culture.
Super, you know, lucky and proudto be a part of the brand had a
team and also to be a part ofthe Center for Aska universe as
well.
(05:05):
Oh, I don't know if it's as bigas the universe, but thank you.
That's, that's kind, we sure arehappy you guys are a part of it.
Okay, so, you know, I think thatleads us into the question of I
mean, what do you, becauseyou've been on both the client
side and the agency side, Imean, what makes the magic of a
(05:26):
well orchestrated relationship?
Well, there's a lot ofingredients to it, as you
probably can guess, you know,the, the first one that comes to
mind, to me is trying to find avendor that you really feel like
there's a potential for a truepartnership, partnership gets
(05:48):
thrown around, I think as a, asa word as a concept, quite often
these days, but sometimesdoesn't always come to fruition.
And so to really get to a pointwhere partnership is, you know,
a back and forth, it'scollaborative, you know, it's
respectful, you have to ask theright questions, you have to,
(06:10):
you know, make sure that they'relike checking off your, you
know, cultural boxes, so tospeak, and make sure that, you
know, they are committed to thesame goals, that you are, you
know, attempting to communicateto them, it's a lot easier said
than done. But that certainly iskind of the first place, I would
(06:31):
say, most businesses shouldstart is, you know, really
having an internal, almost likecultural like Foundation, where,
you know, if this partner, orthis potential vendor isn't, you
know, checking those culturalboxes, we need to move on, from
that partnership, or we need tomake sure as we're searching,
(06:51):
that we use that as ourbarometer, to, you know,
continue with with arelationship or start a new
relationship. So that would benumber one. Number two, probably
no surprises, communication,communication, when it comes to
partnership is vital. I'll useyou know, your team, as a great
example, Sarah, you know, James,on your team is really a great
(07:17):
communicator, he has no problemhopping on the phone, you know,
whether it's phone, text,message, email, you know, using
different tools to communicate,the dedication to communication
is so important. And, you know,it's not just like, text
messages or, you know, emailsback and forth, it's the
(07:40):
substance of the communication,the respect for the individuals
involved, is also incrediblyimportant, you know, everybody's
busy, everybody's got a millionthings going on at once, you
know, and so, being respectfulof of that, I think, is really,
really key, you know, askingquestions, like, you know, and
(08:00):
this, again, it's a partnership,right, so us as the vendor, you
know, we need to be askingquestions like, when do you need
it by, you know, really makingsure that the expectations are
communicated and understood, inorder for people to feel a, that
the vendor or the client, youknow, cares about getting it
(08:22):
done on time, and making surethat you meet your deadlines,
and be, you know, making surethat it fits into the priority
list. So communication is, isincredibly, incredibly
important. And then I guess thethird thing is organization, you
know, making sure that there's astructure, there's some kind of,
(08:43):
you know, tool or, or philosophyor whatever gets applied, that
holds people accountable. Sonobody feels let down.
Partnerships tend to fail whenpeople feel like they're asking,
you know, for assistance withsomething, insight, whatever it
is, and, you know, if that ifthat continues to fall through
(09:05):
the cracks, it's going to affectthe trust in the relationship
between those two parties. Andwithout organization and
organizational, you know,approach or aesthetic being
applied to the partnership,things can get out of hand
really, really quickly andeasily. So that's, you know, a
great example is having a weeklymeeting, you know, where
(09:26):
there's, you know, the theability to touch base and, you
know, add clarity to what'sgoing on, it could be, you know,
a simple, you know, tool like,you know, we use something
called 90 to keep ourselvesorganized and on track. So, you
know, I think those threepillars really set a very solid
(09:47):
foundation to make sure thatthat partnership is strong, and
that everybody's kind of tosteal a line from you, you know,
moving up into the right insteadof the opposite to right
Question.
That's great. Thank you, Ryan.
That is a is a trademarkedtagline. So I'll send you an
invoice. Yeah, that's fine.
(10:08):
Okay. All right. I'm teasingyou. Alright, somebody else?
I'll have somebody else pay forit. Okay, well,
okay, so the reason for, youknow, this topic, in my opinion,
I would say a lot of our pointne clients have partners, they
have vendors, or they havepeople in their midst, that are
(10:28):
doing their accounting, ortheir, you know, tax work, or
their marketing work or whateverelse. And so, you know, I find
that it's not always built ofthe same type of partnership
that I like to have, whichagain, you know, we have a
really solid one built on a lotof the things that you talked
about. And so I want themlistening, I want I want these
(10:51):
clients listening for the cuesof what am I doing right with
the people who are doing a partof my business who are doing
work on behalf of my brand, orare, you know, interacting with
my people, because a goodpartnership versus a kind of
stomped upon vendor can create avery different work product. And
(11:17):
just to hover on that for amoment, you know, I have been on
the agency side, in fact, Iwould say I'm on the agency
side, right now. With pointnortheast, we serve clients, we
are a service basedorganization, if we are not
serving, we fall flat on ournoses, right. I mean, we have to
serve first, I also have been onthe client side. And again, I'm
(11:39):
on the client side right now.
But I would say I learned theclient side at General Mills all
those years ago. And I got tosee what it is like when someone
really empowers their partners,versus stomps on their vendors.
And again, I use those two wordsas a really good kind of
comparison of the thoughtprocess, in my opinion, of
leveraging outside talentoutside help you're, you're
(12:02):
bringing people in to be a partof your world, and you can treat
them like dirt, or you can treatthem like respected work product
partners. So talk a little bitabout if you don't mind, maybe
I've examples. And I certainlydon't need names, but some maybe
examples of how that comes tolife?
(12:25):
Absolutely. So I kind of putthis concept in two categories,
there's sort of thephilosophical side of it, and
then there's the more liketactical, you know, like, what
are we actually doing side ofit. So I'll talk about the
philosophical side first, itreally comes down to empathy.
You know, I know that word isalso thrown around a lot. But
(12:48):
truly having empathy, bothparties, having empathy for one
another, is so incrediblyimportant. It's it's one of
randoms core values. And fact,is to, and, you know, we take
partnership extremely seriously.
But you can't get there, if youdon't have empathy for the, the
entity that you're workingalongside of, and with. And it's
(13:10):
a lot easier said than done. Butyou can get to that empathetic
place, through transparentcommunication again, you know,
you can get to that empatheticplace, through, you know,
spending a little bit of timetrying to understand the
processes, that the other side,you know, of the of the
(13:33):
relationship needs to go throughto get, you know, your
deliverable delivered to you.
You know, there are some timeswhere it'd be great if, you
know, a vendor was able to justkind of, you know, sidestep a
few steps or processes along theway to get, you know, the client
(13:53):
what they need quicker, but theend result might not be as good
because it's not being funneledthrough the process that it
needs to be funneled through inorder for the end product to be,
you know, as close to beingperfect, which we know is never
a possibility, but it's close tobeing, you know, I guess
(14:14):
approved by the client, Isuppose, as you can as you can
get it. So, you know, explainingwhat those processes are and
making sure that the partnerthat you're working with
understands, you know, you don'tneed to give them every single
detail. But it helps tounderstand and helps again to
empathize with one another, whenyou have some understanding of
(14:39):
what it takes to get to the endproduct or what it takes to, you
know, get to where you're tryingto go together. So I think
that's hugely important and youknow, that comes that that is
something that I don't know ifit can be completely and totally
taught. Of course, it can be,you know, communicated in turn
(15:00):
Only and, you know, the culturecan be sort of set up that way,
but it almost takes like, theindividuals, you know, involve,
to really, you know, peel backthe veil a little bit, and I
don't need to know everythingabout you, for example, Sara and
your life, but I do know thatyour mom, you know, I do know
that you, you have multiplebusinesses, I do know that
(15:21):
you're running teams, I do know,you know, that there's factors
involved. So I take those thingsinto consideration, you know,
when, you know, you might beowing me something, you know,
and hopefully, those the same,you know, is done on the client
side, you know, so, so, withoutkind of babbling on and on about
(15:42):
that, I really, truly think thatrelationship building, you know,
having, again, someopportunities to talk about
process to get to know yourclient or your or your vendor, a
little bit. And, you know, wedon't need to be best friends.
But we should get to a pointwhere there's a mutual respect
and understanding. So ifsomething does come up, you
(16:03):
know, if somebody's kid, youknow, get sick or something like
that, like there's, there's alevel of empathy that can be
deployed. So it's like, okay, Iget it, you know, like you, this
was unexpected. And, you know,but that's just bumped the
deadline, you know, to a timethat makes sense, because you
have to take care of somethingin your personal life. So good.
(16:24):
That's, that's,I think, I would agree. 100%,
when do you think a partner doestheir best work?
I think a partner does theirbest work when they're not
micromanaged. But their buttheir client, or their, the
(16:45):
vendor is available to answerquestions to give good insight.
And again, it kind of comes backto process like, what is the
what is the process to, youknow, approve content, for
example, like, you know, randomis a digital marketing agency,
we create social media content,we create websites, we run email
(17:05):
campaigns, I'm just doing theplug for random here. But, you
know, we are a full servicedigital agency. And so, you
know, a lot of the work that wedo, you know, is trying to
interpret the, the goals and theobjectives of our partners. And,
you know, we're not necessarilythe experts in any of the areas
(17:29):
in which we, you know, I mean,of course, we've got, you know,
credibility and knowledge, and,you know, whether it's a finance
finance related client, or arestaurant or whatever, you
know, we have some background inthose things. And, of course,
you know, want to make sure thatpeople are working on those
accounts that do, but if wedon't, it really does help if
(17:52):
the partner on the other end isavailable for education is
available for answeringquestions. So that way, we're
not making things up, we're nottrying to guess, you know, what
are they? What do they want? Youknow, we can just ask, you know,
so I think, again, thatcollaboration, that
communication really helps getthe best work possible. And it
(18:13):
just comes down to thewillingness to be available to
demystify or add clarity, towhatever is being worked on,
because that's where I think alot of, of these relationships
start to really fall is whenthere's no clarity, there's no
direction, it's super confusing,you know, so the more clarity
(18:36):
and the more you know, juststraightforward, which is not
always a skill of mine, but astraightforward communication of
this is what we're looking for.
This is what we need. This iswhen we need a buy. And then you
know, reciprocated, okay, wethis makes sense. We understand
or, Hey, I don't understand. Letme check for understanding. Now.
We're now we're dancing. Right?
(18:59):
Yeah, like, right, and now it'sless of a like, you do this for
me. Here's like, three wordsthat you have to sort of, like,
build your whole strategy on,you know, now we're now you
know, now we're, we're, we'reballroom dancing. You know,
we're we're in that partnership,in a really solid way.
(19:21):
Yeah, no, that's great. I likethe analogy of dancing. I also
have used, like, if you're in avolleyball match, and you're
thinking of like, Oh, I'mpassing it over to you. And now
Now you're putting it back over.
It's not very, it's clunky. It'sjust it's not orchestrated
versus dancing or rowing in thesame direction. I mean, now
(19:42):
we're actually a team movingtogether. So yeah, I agree with
that. You know, I was going tojust comment on the
micromanaging for a momentbecause I do find that clients
are so controlling or they're sonervous. They're frightful, that
someone will not take theirbusiness and hold it that you
(20:05):
know, kind of in a sacred weighttected and care for it and all
of those sorts of things. Sosometimes it does take a moment.
But I remember back to myGeneral Mills days, and I used
to call this moving theblueberry because I was working
at the time for Pillsbury, andwe had blueberry muffins. And I
remember I was doing the photoshoot. And the person that was
(20:27):
involved in the photo shoot wasliterally, you know, saying, Oh,
we have to reshoot it, we haveto move the blueberry, you know,
it has to go over a little bit,was like, Oh, my word. And so I
think that it was a veryvaluable lesson for me this
moving the blueberry philosophywas, is it actually making a
substantial enough difference toannoy everybody else on the
(20:51):
project. And so it's a littlebit more of this, like, here's
what I'm going for. I want adelicious, warm, hot, beautiful
blueberry muffin. And at thatpoint, you are actually
inspiring the team, you'rebringing the creatives in so
that they can be a part of thismission and goal and vision
versus like, Oh, my word. Like,they're nitpicking and
(21:15):
micromanaging every singlething, which is just such the
reverse, emotional reaction forme, like I can have a visceral
reaction to that kind of liketeeing it up, and you're the
boss, and you're the expert. Andlet's go get this big mission.
Versus, Oh, great. Now I'm, youknow, now somebody's telling me,
I got to put the word over hereand bold that letter and do this
(21:37):
and absolutely,yeah, well, we're both parents.
So I think of I think of therelationship between client and
vendor, as you know, parentchild sometimes. And you know,
as parents, it can be verychallenging, first of all, so,
(21:57):
you know, to make the analogy,when you get into a relationship
with a vendor, there's riskinvolved, just in the same way
as if you have a child, there isrisk involved immediately, you
know, even before they're born,there's risk involved. And the
nurturing that you do, as aparent is very similar to the
nurturing that can be done, whenit comes to the relationship
(22:21):
between, you know, twobusinesses that are trying to
work together, right. So whetherit's client, vendor, vendor
client, however you want to, youknow, put those in order. But,
you know, as a parent, youreally need to understand where
to interject your parenting, andwhere to allow the child to
(22:42):
discover, grow, you know, maybemake a mistake or two along the
way, without being right thereto catch every time they fall.
And, similarly, you know, whenit comes to the relationship
between vendors and, andclients, you know, again, like I
(23:03):
said, there's, there's riskinvolved, there's risks
involved, because there's arelationship, there's risk
involved, because there's, youknow, the will obviously, the
financial component of it, butthere's even risk involved when
it comes to word of mouth, youknow, I mean, you have a bad
experience with a, with a vendoror with a client, you know,
(23:26):
those things tend to get around.
So there's a lot to nurture anda lot to, like, want to, you
know, be mindful of and takecare of, but you also have to
figure out when it's necessaryto really get your hands dirty,
and when to allow, in the caseof if we're saying, client,
(23:46):
allow a vendor to, you know,have some discovery on their
own, to, you know, figure outhow to best you know, represent
the brand. You know, you've gotto trust that the credibility
that they have you hired themfor a reason, you know, is
enough to, you know, not feellike you have to get your hands
(24:08):
on it to the point where you'reactually diluting the creative
energy and and juices that gointo some of this type of work.
Yeah, it's a lot easier saidthan done, you know, and I
empathize with clients who dofeel compelled to micromanage
(24:31):
you know, and micromanagesometimes, I mean, it's, it's
certainly like, a bad word inthe in the business world. And,
you know, nobody likes to have aboss who micromanages them, you
know, no one's gonna, like, ifyou were like, hey, raise your
hand if you'd like to work forsomebody who's like intensely,
you know, committed tomicromanaging everybody, no one
(24:53):
would raise their hand. However,two things one I understand and
empathize with Clients who feellike they have to, like you kind
of said, like, hold, you know,it's like a robin's egg, you
know, nests, it's so fragile,you don't want it to break.
Because, you know, as a businessowner, you know, use COVID as an
(25:14):
example, like, that wascompletely unexpected, and all
of a sudden, the world wasupside down. And, you know, I
know that you as a restaurant,were, were probably feeling that
unexpected event super hard. Andit's kind of, it's almost like,
okay, like, we're in like anemergency situation here. So I
(25:36):
need to make sure I know what'sgoing on with every single piece
of everything. These vendorsthat we're working with, you
know, they need to be, you know,plugged into what we need to be
doing here. So, you know, it'syour baby, like, I totally get
that, you know, and not to go onand on about it, but I do
empathize with it, it's just,you know, really takes in this
(26:00):
is kind of like, you know,whether it's done in a formal or
informal way, it takes goodfeedback and good open
communication. Gino Wickman, whowrote the EOS book that I know
you're familiar with, he callsit truth and bourbon, where, you
know, it's like, I'm gonna giveyou you know, some hard truth
here. And I'm not trying toupset you, you might want to
(26:22):
take a shot of bourbon to hear,but the idea is that like, okay,
like, this might be hard tohear, but I need to communicate
it with you and give youfeedback about this. So we can,
you know, get on the same pageand this and so if that is like,
I want to, as the vendor want tomake sure that you trust me,
(26:49):
here are the ways that that canwork. Right, you know, and vice
versa. Like, if in order for meas the client to trust you, I
need you to do these things.
Right. So like I said, easiersaid than done, but but it can,
it can work. And it can happenwith good communication.
Yeah, no, that's great. I mean,little things to kind of add up
to building that trust. And I'mjust going to bring this, you
(27:14):
know, as as an example, becausetoo often I find that our
clients are not doing goodbehavior on this. So I try to
coach them in the background.
But, you know, if if I had myphone, and you didn't know that
I was paying attention to you,you now have lost trust in me,
like, what is she doing, it's soimportant that she's not paying
attention, or, you know,something else must be more
(27:37):
important than me. And I thinkthat's a two way street, both
the client and the partner, youknow, the agency both need to be
completely mindful, completelydistracted, and kind of in the
zone, in order for each to feelthe respect and the trust.
Another one is just keeping eachother in the loop. You talked
(27:58):
about communication early on,but I think there's a big trust
factor here, where you're, youknow, really kind of bringing
them in and they become a partof it versus just, oh, now
downstream, I'm just going totell you, I need this. Well, why
do you need that and what youknow, so there's some trust in
that. I think the other thing,again, I'm trying to even just
(28:20):
break it down into the microcolumns of this being on time, I
mean, I remember again, justbeing a, you know, person
waiting in the lobby at amassive organization, you know,
and it's like, oh, my gosh,they're two hours late, and I,
I'm just gonna keep sitting hereuntil they come and get me and,
(28:41):
you know, it's, it's a verydisrespectful feeling. I think
in that moment of like, wow, Imust be so unimportant to them,
that they can't even come andget me from the lobby, when they
said they would come and get me,you know, things like that.
Yeah,I feel like, you know, there's a
lot of fear, really kind of,like underlying a lot of these
(29:01):
vendor client relationships,fear on both sides. You know, I
mean, what am I like not to turnthis into a therapy session, but
like, one of my biggest, youknow, kind of concerns is always
I don't want to let anybodydown. You know, I don't want to
let myself down. I don't want tolet my family down. I don't want
to let my coworkers down, like,whatever it is, but, but
certainly, when it comes to, youknow, work and the relationships
(29:24):
that, you know, are involved inwork in work, working
relationships, you know, lettingsomebody down to me as an
individual is probably the worstfeeling in the world. And so I
think doing those little things,like if you get an email, and
it's, you know, asking you aquestion that you might not have
(29:47):
the answer to, in that moment,writing that, you know,
individual back and saying, Hey,I'm not exactly sure in This
moment what the answer to yourquestion is, but I am going to
find out and get back to you atthis day, you know, at this
time, whatever, going that extramile and at least acknowledging
(30:09):
like, Hey, I have a question. Iknow you're busy, but you know,
it's the classic, like, did youget my email? When you're
working in office? Like, did youget my email about whatever it
is, and if it's like two daysago, and you never responded,
you know, well, I wouldn't blamethe person for asking if you got
(30:30):
that email, you know, so even ifyou couldn't get to it right
away, just taking a minute or asecond, even just acknowledging
the person on the other side,the client or the vendor,
whatever side of this fenceyou're on, that goes a long way.
And it's those little thingsthat really do add up to to
building that trust, like youkind of extra,
(30:52):
that's great. I mean, it's it'sgood behavior. And again, we
would teach our kids to do thesethings. But sometimes when we
get into the working day, it canfall by the wayside. And so
again, my cautionary tale toeveryone is just, if you have a
partner relationship, same withan employee, but I would say
it's really important to buildthat trust, and that's done
(31:13):
through those little teeny tinythings.
It's yeah, it's acknowledgementto I think that's the other
thing, like, once a project iscompleted, you know, this is
something that I think you'rereally, really good at. And
something that we try to do atrandom as well, is really
acknowledge the efforts that arebeing made, you know, you don't
have to win an award in order tofeel like it's necessary to
(31:36):
acknowledge the efforts, youknow, we've worked on some
projects with you, for example,where, you know, the, the
feeling of like, we madesomething that the person who
hired us to make this thing islike, 100% happy with. And we
(31:56):
know that because they gave usthat feedback, they communicated
with that with us, you know,that sense, that sends you into
the next project with, you know,good vibes positivity. And, you
know, just an inspiration,honestly, to continue to, you
know, do your best work. So, so,I think it's really important
(32:19):
that vendors and clients, thepartnership has an element of
feedback and an element ofacknowledging the work that went
into something in order to mean,make sure that that relationship
in that bond is strong. Becauseeventually, if you don't know
how things are going, it'sreally hard to gauge, not only
(32:42):
like, I guess it's hard to gaugewhat the person wants, at a
certain point, like, it becomesmore murky. And it's also hard,
because you start, likequestioning yourself, and in
second guessing, and, and thatcan be a tough place to be
mentally. Yeah. So, yeah,acknowledgement and feedback are
(33:03):
really imperative. I think,I think that's a really good
point. I mean, talk about thefear of failure as a as a, an
agency doing work on behalf ofclients. I mean, how big does
that play a role in your output?
Your energy level? I mean, whatwhat does that look like?
(33:26):
That's a good question. Because,you know, it depends, I guess,
on the culture of the agency,and if, if you're, you know,
even in like a phase of thebusiness where you're struggling
a bit, you know, maybe to getclients or whatever, that's
certainly going to inform that,that fear of failure, because
now it's like, urgent, you know,but that aside, I think it's
(33:52):
something you have toacknowledge is there and
balance, but not let overtakeyou, you know, you can't, you
can't allow that feel offailure, failure to get in the
way of trying something new ormaking a suggestion, because,
you know, ultimately, thosesuggestions are the things that
could ignite, you know, an ideaor a project or an initiative
(34:13):
that changes the business forthe better. You know, an example
of that is in I mean, I don'tknow if this is like, common
knowledge or something, butlike, a franchisee for subway
suggested the $5 footlong thatwas not like a corporate
brainstormed, you know, or amarketing agency that
brainstormed it. It was afranchisees doing the math and
(34:37):
saying, like, we could sell, youknow, this sandwich cheaply.
It's a great, you know,obviously like marketing angle
to it. But, you know, I thinkthis can work and I'm going to
take the feel of fear of failureand push it aside and talk to I
need to talk to you to make thesuggestion and now everybody
(34:57):
knows, I mean, that's theirwhole Marketing, you know? Yeah,
for a long time, right. So allthat took with somebody speaking
up and not being afraid to makea suggestion and, and not being
afraid of getting theirsuggestion, you know, thrown in
the garbage and taking, they'reshooting their shots, so to
(35:18):
speak. So I think, you know,it's very easy to get caught up
in that fear of fear, fear offailure mindset. However, it's
important to trust yourinstincts, it's important to
lean on your expertise, it'simportant to ultimately, like
(35:41):
use the credibility that youhave, again, you know, you were
hired for a reason, if you'rethe vendor. And so, you know,
you, you need to kind of, likelean on some of these things in
order to not get like, in thatdark place. Yeah. But it's,
again, it's easier said thandone sometimes. Well,
(36:01):
and I would say, you know, maybespeaking from the client side,
for a minute here, if youinstill a fear of failure in
your partners, you havehandcuffed them, I mean, I would
say, you know, the intention ofbringing in an outside group, in
my opinion, is that you probablydon't have the necessarily the
(36:22):
resources to be able to haveyour own marketing team. And so
I'll just use the example of,you know, we use random because
we can get high level strategicmarketing, all the way down to
the executional, posting on oursocial media, managing the
content, you know, building thewebsite, those things. So, I
mean, for me to do that, foreither of my businesses, it's
(36:44):
just not an expense that I wantto undertake, it would be
foolish of me to bring on, youknow, three, four people just to
do marketing at this stage,nor do you maybe even have the
bandwidth for it to manage it.
Right. So it's, yeah, there's alot of factors and to consider
and, you know, like, the outsideperspective, you know, again,
(37:06):
it's, it's a, it's fine line,because the, the vendor doesn't,
always isn't always going to bean expert, in whatever, you
know, industry, their client is,is is, you know, working in and
so, there is this kind of, like,conversation that happens a lot
(37:27):
where it's like, you know, we'remaybe maybe not the experts in
how to run a restaurant, but weare experts in social media,
right. So that again, you know,going back to the like, respect
concept, yes. Like, I respectthat you are the expert in
running a restaurant. And so, Imay have an idea here and there,
(37:48):
and how to, like, improve aprocess or whatever, but like,
you are the expert, you've builtthat credibility, we're the
experts in the content creation,you know, we can certainly,
like, offer suggestions to oneanother, that, you know, can be
very helpful. So, you know, youhave to have a amount of
humbleness and openness in orderto really cultivate a good
(38:12):
vendor client relationship. Andthat's on both sides. But it's
at least, you know, respectagain, to that base level of,
hey, you know, you hired us fora reason. Yeah. And we're
working with you, or, and wewant to work with you for a
reason. So there's that baselevel is established. You know,
(38:32):
again, it comes back to theconcept, I guess, of like the
micromanagement. Yeah, the fearmongering, is also something
I've seen done, you know,throughout my career, where
you're establishing this, like,if you make a mistake, then your
ass is on the line kind ofmentality that says, you know,
(38:52):
really not a great place foranyone to work in. And a lot of
people lean on that, with theidea that if I, if I instill
that fear, then they're going todo it, right. And they're going
to get it done on time. Andthey're going to be afraid of my
reaction. If it's not done theway that I think it should be.
Right. And that never works. Youknow, it's not sustainable.
(39:17):
Unfortunately, you know, thereare instances where people do
lean into that. And, and yousaid stomped on early, I've seen
that happen, you know, and it'seasy to stomp on a vendor. And I
And again, like as to havingbeen on the client side, I've
been in situations and I've evendone the stopping and have felt
(39:39):
terrible about it later, becauseit never helped, you know, it
was maybe I was frustrated, andI came at, you know, or I
accused or we came at oraccused. But now, you know, the
the applecart has been upset alittle bit. And so you have to
be very careful. You When Whenfear is a fear is a is a, it's,
(40:06):
it's a weapon, and it can beweaponized. And it's certainly
helps in, like, if you're, youknow, fighting a war, I guess,
but like that shouldn't thatshouldn't be what a vendor
client relationship feels like,totally a great, I would say,
instilling a fear of failure inyour agency or partner does a
(40:27):
lot of harm and no good in myopinion. And I think what we are
leaning on, outside partners foris to see the industry and, you
know, you brought up the exampleof social media, how in the
world could I be an expert onsocial media? I mean, it is
almost changing daily, right? Ican know enough to be dangerous,
(40:49):
but there's no way that I knowwhat the Google AI algorithm is,
I know what the different, Imean, I literally can't even
keep up with all the tools. So Iam looking for someone to bring
that expertise. But if I instilla fear of failure, they're not
going to have the ability, orinterest to test and learn to
(41:10):
bring in, hey, we're seeingpeople do this, would you be
interested in trying this? Andso, again, I think, you know,
it's really this open. And youuse the term humbleness. But I
would, I would say, justopenness in general to, you're
the expert in the things thatyou're the expert in, tell me
what's out there. And what Ishould be looking at help me
(41:33):
know, if there are things thatare out there in the world, it
might be another industry, itmight be another tool that I'm
just not attuned to, and how canwe kind of fold that in as an
idea, we may test and learn it,or we may implement it. But if I
say that's the responsibility ofthe vendor, right to take very
(41:59):
seriously, and I thinksometimes, whether there's a
fear of failure involved or not,coming from the client side,
let's say, there might be justan intrinsic feel fear of
failure, that it just exists,not based on like something that
the client did or said, right.
But you got to get over that,you know, you got to get past
(42:22):
that, and you have to speak up,and you have to bring those
things to your client, in orderto continue to cultivate that
trust in that relationship. Soif you're not, if you're
withholding information, ifyou're not, you know, letting
you know, like, for example, webrought like, an option to the
restaurant to create, like ascannable. Basically, like a TAP
(42:44):
card that's on the tables of therestaurant to submit a Google
review, very easily, it helps,you know, build up that
credibility for the restaurant,it makes it easy for the the
guest to submit a review. Or,you know, another idea was, you
(43:04):
know, should we look into Ecommerce for the merchandise,
you know, and of course,there's, you know, and you've
been brought up, I'll just usethis as a real example. You're
like, Yeah, it sounds great. Butmy concern is fulfillment. You
know, my concern is, like, if Ihave to mail these out, like,
what is my process for that? Youknow, so, but bringing that
(43:24):
conversation to the table,having that discussion, you
know, it's the responsibilityof, in my opinion of the vendor
to bring those things to thetable. So it isn't just a one
sided relationship where theclient is thinking, like, I have
to continue to ask you to dothings or, you know, there needs
(43:46):
to be a back and forth there to,you know, earlier analogies,
yeah,no, that's great. The dancing.
All right. Well, um, Ryan, Imean, thank you. Again, I feel
like you have such a balancedperspective, because you've been
on both sides of the table. And,you know, I have as well and am
currently in the differentdifferent roles in different
(44:10):
businesses. And I just, I wantto thank you for your
partnership. I mean, I thinkit's been just a really lovely,
lovely relationship. I obviouslyadore your owner, who I've
worked with in the past. And Ilove Alison, who is one of our
account folks, and I love all ofthem. But, you know, I just
think you have such goodhearted, sincerely, wonderful,
talented people. And so I just,you know, I really, I credit a
(44:35):
lot of our success to the factthat we found you brought you on
and I mean, we're all I thinkhaving fun doing it. So
I agree, it's a lot of fun, andyou guys are wonderful to work
with and for and, you know,every example and everything
that I've said this entire time,you guys are, you know,
(44:56):
exemplify all the positive, youknow, aspect So what we've
talked about, and so I think thethe Treska. And point ne teams
are great examples of how totruly have a partnership that is
organic, and unforced andtransparent and authentic. You
(45:17):
know, I mean, again, these wordsget used very freely, you know,
we're talking about thesethings, but it's another thing
to, to exemplify it with action.
So, you know, I can't say enoughgood things about you guys. And
well, we appreciate being partof the team.
Thank you. You forgot to mentionthat. I'm funny.
(45:38):
You are funny.
I'm teasing you. All right.
Well, Ryan, thank you again, foreverything. Thank you for being
part of this. And thank you foryour partnership. I look forward
to many, many moons of furthersuccess with you and your team.
So thanks for answering thesegreat questions. I hope that
some of our clients and someothers out there are thinking,
(46:00):
Gosh, I couldn't do things in alittle bit better way to empower
and to really, you know,emblazon the hearts and minds of
our partners so that they can dotheir best work, which
ultimately is a win win, right?
We're all kind of connected inthis. We do better together. All
boats will rise. So indeed,Ryan. All right. Have a great
(46:23):
day, everybody. Thanks again forbeing here, Ryan. And, as
always, you know, here to helpfrom a point northeast business
or just even personally, if Ican help someone with their
business. I always like to sayyou're not alone out there. So
if you're struggling withsomething like find someone to
ask questions of a mentor orjust me so you just call me if
you need help. Alright. Have agood day, Ryan. You too.
(46:48):
Goodbye. Thanks so much fortuning in to this episode of
level up your business with me,Sara Frasca. If you have a
problem in your business that'skeeping you up at night. Please
join us in a future episode sowe can help get you unstuck.
Just clicking the link in theshow notes and send us a
message. Please remember, stayinnovative friends.
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