August 11, 2025 • 51 mins
"Any views expressed are the opinions of Mr. Williams and do not reflect the position or represent the U.S. Department of Defense. Mr. Williams' participation does not constitute any implied or actual endorsement of any nonfederal entity by the U.S. Government."
Johnathan "JDUBB" Williams, Chief of Staff for the Joint Functional Component Command for Integrated Missile Defense, shares how he quickly brought transparency and better communication to his team by holding open meetings, sending his 30-day assessments to the whole command, and encouraging direct feedback. He talks about the importance of mental health in high-stress jobs, his own experience at Walter Reed, and how mentorship helps leaders at every level. Williams also discusses how staying calm in crisis situations sets the tone for the whole team.
Links Mentioned:
- Military OneSource
- Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society
- Family Care Center
- USAJobs Website
- Connect with Jonathan "JDUBB" Williams on LinkedIn
Free Resources:
- Strategic Planning Checklist
- Chief of Staff Skills Assessment Checklist
- A Day in the Life of a Chief of Staff
- Chief of Staff Toolkit
Get in Touch With Emily:
- Connect on LinkedIn
- Follow on YouTube
- Learn more about coaching
- Sign up for the newsletter
- Clarity Call with Emily
Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.
Time Stamps:
1:41 Johnathan's Military Journey
04:58 Role and Responsibilities at Space Command
07:45 Leadership and Management Strategies
20:05 Mentorship and Professional Development
26:04 Encouraging Mentorship in Command
27:09 Implementing Mentorship Programs
30:56 Advocating for Mental Health
33:18 Personal Mental Health Journey
40:03 Integrating Mental Health in Leadership
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:25):
Hey, this is a quick note fromEmily in the future.
The guest you're about to hearfrom is fantastic due to a
security protocol.
He had to take the interviewfrom his car outside the
military base he was on.
So the audio and video just forthe first eight minutes is a
little bit more choppy thannormal, but after that, it evens
out.
But the content, the experience,the background, the story is
(00:47):
fantastic.
So I definitely wanted to sharethat with you.
So without further ado, here isthat conversation.
emily-sander_1_01-02-20 (00:55):
Welcome back to leveraging leadership.
Today's guest is Jonathan J DubWilliams, and he has a long,
fancy title.
So let me read this to you.
He is the chief of staff for thejoint functional component
command for integrated missiledefense, a subordinate command
to the U S space Command.
and before we dive in a quickdisclaimer, Mr.
(01:15):
Williams is here today in hispersonal capacity, the views and
opinions he shares are his ownand do not represent the
department of defense or itspolicies.
With that, J Dub, welcome to theshow.
It's very nice to see you again.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's nice to see you, Emily.
Thanks for having me.
emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_ (01:31):
just to start out with, could you
share a bit about yourbackground and your journey to
the chief of staff role at thedepartment of defense?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Sure.
So I back in 1998, um, as anaval officer, my designator was
intelligence and bent over.
20 years, um, holding positions,uh, of greater senior.
(02:01):
And responsibility, uh,throughout those years from
working writer squadron as theintel officer to being an
interrogator, uh, with, uh, theSEAL Team 1, um, in Ramadi,
Iraq.
And then, uh, I came out here aspace professional.
Uh, there was a very small cadreof, uh, Navy officers that were
(02:26):
space educated.
And when Space Command wasgetting ready to stand up.
Decided well, I can retire ortake this next step and I took
the next step and I'm glad I didbecause now Um, uh, the chief of
or J.
T.
F.
space command is a graphiccombatant command.
(02:46):
Uh, it was around in theeighties and then at 9 11, uh,
they started the U.
S.
Northern Command.
Uh, several years go by and werealized yeah.
Our importance, uh, with spaceassets and fight that may come
(03:07):
in all deals with.
With a lot of that, that is inspace from satellites to
communications.
Uh, you know, the simple thingfrom paying for gas at a pump or
taking out cash at an A.
T.
M.
at all.
It's all based in space.
So space command is in charge.
(03:30):
If you, if you look up in thesky and you go 100 kilometers
up, that's where their area it.
So that's technical spacebegins.
Uh, anything below that is U.
S.
strategic command.
It's also separated graphicallyby other component commands,
(03:53):
like the European commandobviously has EUCOM, um, has
Europe.
Central command has, um, theMiddle East, the Pacific.
Of course, the Pacific, but theuniqueness of space command is
that we are trans regional.
We go up and we intersect every.
(04:15):
Patent commands, uh, areaability, and those are all
chaired by four star generals oradmirals.
Uh, the joint functionalcomponent command for integrated
missile defense, a J ffic.
Um, the J FFIC is responsible,uh, integrated missile defense
(04:39):
where we take joint capabilitiesdevelopment.
We advocate for the war fighter,uh, the operator that operates
technology and we.
Make sure that those resourcesare shared cross combatant
commands.
So if you picture a missilecoming out of, say, Iran, and
(05:04):
it's flying into, um, 100nautical miles above the earth,
and it's, so it's in space,transiting, say, to the United
States, it's going to go overCENTCOM, it's going to go over
European command, it's going togo into U.
S.
And we need to make sure thatall those pieces are connected
(05:26):
and talking to each other sothat?
we can provide a defensivecapability.
emily-sander_1_01-02-20 (05:32):
Gotcha.
Yes, that would be good.
So thank you for what you do.
And thank you for what all ofyour colleagues do.
Uh, thank you for thatexplanation.
And then in this case, who isyour principal?
So it's a general, not a CEO inthis case, but can you talk a
little bit about your chain ofcommand there?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Sure.
So my immediate chain of commandgoes from, uh, Lieutenant
General Ganey.
He's our Army general.
Uh, he wears several hats.
He's the Army's strategiccommander for Army's
capabilities.
Um, he's also the U.
(06:09):
S.
Space and Missile Defense Centerofficer and he's also our
commanding general.
So he wears several hats.
Um, he's a three star.
We have a deputy commander who06, a full bird colonel, and
then there's the staff we allreport to general being a four
(06:31):
star general who's in charge ofU.
S.
Space Command.
So we're doing so his from thepresident And the general
Whiting at Space Command ischarged with.
Regional missile defense, whichis what we do, and we do that on
behalf of General Whiting,because we have that capability.
We have the expertise in house
emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_1 (06:53):
and is general Whiting, I see.
And is General Whiting the onewho would present the defense
proposal on to the president onbehalf of what his subordinates
have put together and what he'sapproved.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
He has, in some cases, um, Lieutenant on, uh,
for his, for the hat that hewears as Jiffy commander.
So he testified in Congress, uh,just in April of 2024, um,
wearing.
emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_100 (07:29):
I see.
Okay.
So you're supporting some veryinfluential people to, to say
the least.
Um, okay.
Thank you for that context.
That will be helpful to manylisteners, um, who are not as
familiar with the militaryapparatus as you are.
So when we first connected, youwere going into this role and we
were talking about your first30, 60, 90 days, and it sounded
(07:53):
like there wasn't.
an official program or protocolfor chiefs of staff.
It was, I have this jointcommand and I have to coordinate
all of these differentdepartments and divisions and
directories, um, go and you hadvery good instincts and were
able to put together a lot ofpieces that brought transparency
and visibility and.
(08:14):
open communication.
to the groups you are workingwith, but just
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (08:18):
You know, how did you get into the
role of chief of staff and whatdid your first 30, 60, 90 days
look like?
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-202 (08:24):
So it was a competitive process.
I applied, um, through USA jobsand I had an, a real extensive
interview, uh, with four seniorofficers.
Um, and it was about an hour,about an hour interview.
Um, and about a month after theinterview, maybe six weeks, I
(08:46):
got the, Um, the job offer.
So when I first got on board,um, typically in the military,
when you show up, uh, the someof the advice, whether it's good
or bad is to, Hey, don't makeany significant changes Right.
away.
Right.
Um, get the lay of the land,kind of see what's going on.
(09:09):
Um, well, I, I needed to speedthat up, um, because our mission
is, our mission is, is veryimportant.
Um, I was coming in at the endof the fiscal year.
Um, so I wanted to make surethat I was in lockstep with
Lieutenant General Ganey, um,and what he told Congress that
(09:31):
he was going to do.
Uh, and during my interview, Ipromised that that's exactly
what I was, I was intending todo.
So when I got on board, um, Imet with every, you can look at
them as C suite members.
So I have, uh, eight officers.
Um, they range from They'rejoint service, military and
(09:54):
civilian.
They're all 06s or GS 14s.
So I'm the senior civilian forthe command.
Um, and I sat down with every,every one, uh, for about 45
minutes.
I, I asked them to bring metheir issues.
Give me the, um, the brief ofwhat, what it is that their
(10:14):
directorate, uh, is in chargeof, big issues they're having,
the projects that are workingon, uh, and how I can help.
And I asked them to just becandid with me, um, because I'm
a very transparent, um, type ofleader.
So I was able to speed up my 30day assessment and make all
(10:38):
those changes within my firstfew weeks, um, relatively easy
and smoothly.
And I got a huge, it did pay,um, great dividends going, going
forward.
I'm working on my 90 dayassessment now.
Um, and we've made significantprogress.
(10:59):
And the command is, is muchbetter.
Um, I'm not saying that it'sbecause of me, it's because I've
allowed those senior officers.
To be autonomous, to have theirauthority over their
directorate, uh, and haveresponsibility.
So I don't want to micromanagethem.
(11:20):
They're very seniorprofessionals, um, who've had 30
years like?
myself in the industry.
So I just, I need them to, toact that way.
Um, and it was a good reliefthat.
I did on their behalf becausethey were, they were very
energized when I told them thatasked them to do that.
(11:43):
And then I displayed it, um, tothem by giving them more things
in their bailiwick, if you will,to do, um, I cut out a lot of
meetings that were pointless,time consuming.
Uh, some meetings covered thesame thing.
So I created one staff meeting,uh, it's every Monday and it's
(12:06):
the chief of staff sync meetingwith all of my directors.
Uh, and we go over the issuesfor the week from personnel to,
uh, computer issues to futureprojects, to.
Um, integration with foreignpartners or other combatant
commands, it runs the gamut andwe, we sit in there for an hour.
(12:29):
It's very process driven, verystreamlined and efficient.
Um, and it's, and it's provedfruitful for the command.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_ (12:40):
Yes.
And along with the one on onesyou did and the rethinking of
meetings, streamlining those, Iwant to, I want to call out and
highlight a few other things youdid, which you first of all took
the session the general had withCongress and said, here's,
here's the mandate.
Here's the overall, you know,what we're supposed to be
driving towards.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02 (12:59):
ma'am.
emily-sander_2_01-0 (13:01):
Repurposing what was said there into here's
what we're driving after.
Here's the objective.
And then, um, you also took that30 day assessment that you
provided to the general and youpush that to the entire command
so they could see what you hadsaid.
And I think that was the firsttime that had ever happened.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-202 (13:19):
It was the first time.
Uh, so when I got on board, Iwas asking random, uh,
employees, Hey, what, what doyou think, Our mission is, what
do you think your contributionto our mission is?
And people had a huge sort of,well, they were very disjointed
(13:41):
in what they thought they did,who they did it for and what,
what sort of, um, interactionthey had and what, what they,
what their participation was,you know, what their piece of
the pie was.
Um, So I read General Ganey'stestimony to Congress.
I itemized it, lined it out,like, as you saw, um, and I told
(14:04):
the command that, okay, here'sme, this is my leadership style,
and these are the things you'regoing to see, uh, me get after
right away.
Uh, so I sent that to the entirecommand.
Uh, the general really liked it.
And the command appreciated itbecause they, they were like,
everyone was on the same sheetof music going forward.
(14:25):
They're like, okay, we know whyhe's here.
We know why he's making changes.
Uh, because the general promisedCongress that he would.
So I just put those into action.
Um, and it worked out great.
Um, we've made huge strides in,uh, in almost my 90 day mark.
(14:46):
Uh, that, I mean, a hundredpercent in some areas.
60, 75 percent and many others.
It's been phenomenal, but thattrans transparency from senior
leadership, uh, is invaluable.
If you, if you, I'm that type ofleader that says, if I'm going
to do something and I put it inwriting, I do it.
(15:08):
And, and everyone was veryappreciative of that.
And it's to this day, it'sstill, it's still running full
steam.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (15:16):
And then what's your approach to
collecting feedback ongoing,right?
Cause it's a dynamic evolvingkind of living process where you
want to make sure you'retransparent in terms of.
Letting the teams know what thecommander's intent is in this
case, a real commander, a realgeneral, what the commander's
intent is.
So they understand, and thenalso feeding up relevant,
(15:39):
helpful information toleadership that the people, you
know, on the front lines know,and they just have a different
level of access to or differentperspective on how do you gather
that feedback and convey that.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (15:51):
Uh, so I I'm very mobile.
As a, as a leader, um, I like toget out and talk to the people
that are, I'm working with, um,in their workspace.
Uh, I try to keep it veryinformal so that they're able to
talk to me.
A lot of people will say, sir,yes, sir.
Um, but the people that havelike a long history in the
(16:13):
military or.
knew me, um, when I moved herein Colorado Springs on active
duty in 2018, then, uh, a lot ofpeople stay here.
Cause it's beautiful.
Um, they'll call me JW.
And I asked people to call methat because I.
That, that feedback is importantto me on where they think they
(16:35):
are, what, what they think isgoing on, um, if it's working or
not, or if there's a better wayto do it.
Uh, so I'm constantly in that,in that environment, putting my,
my employees in thatenvironment.
And then I write a report everyMonday.
I don't know if I showed that toyou, but it's usually the notes
(16:55):
that I take during my chief ofstaff meeting.
And I'll tell the generalexactly what is being said.
In the command.
So there's, there's no guessworkthat everybody knows from the
general down to my it tech.
Um, everybody knows whateverybody's thinking and doing
and working on.
(17:16):
And you can just take thatdocument and walk across, uh,
the building to another sectionand integrate yourself with
whatever it is that they'redoing.
Cause all, a lot of the piecesoverlap, um, and they're able to
see that.
now.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (17:33):
And with that summary snapshot from
the Monday chief of staffmeetings, we're What else, just
in general, you being chief ofstaff to General Gainey, what
does he need from you to do hisjob effectively?
I
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (17:47):
So.
He needs me to make sure thatthe staff, uh, is, is cohesive.
They're operating as one unit.
Um, they're communicating openlywith each other that they're
integrated.
Um, and that's where thetransparency, my 60, 30, 60, 90
(18:10):
day assessment, my weekly, um,chief of staff sync notes that I
give to the command and to thecommander.
Everybody sees what everyoneelse is doing.
And for the first time, thiscommand has been around for 20
years.
Uh, and for the first time, alot of these employees that have
been there for that long said,it's never been this way.
(18:31):
Um, and that's not due to me.
It's just, I learned throughoutmy career that if you know what
the boss wants, you don't haveto guess, and you're usually
right the first time.
Um, and in our mission.
(18:51):
You don't have the luxury of alot of time, um, cause a lot of
things are wanted right awayfrom Congress or from the
secretary of defense or thepresident.
Um, and you constantly have tobe on your toes for that.
Um, and that takes an entireteam to do.
And that's what general gamingneeds for me ultimately is to
(19:13):
make sure that the team, I gotthe proper lineup.
Everybody's fielded and haspracticed and warmed up and is
ready to play the game everysingle day.
And that's what I try to do.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_ (19:26):
love that analogy that they're warmed
up and ready to play at any, atany moment, because if the
secretary of defense or thepresident calls, you probably
need to reprioritize what you'redoing and get that done, I would
imagine.
And, and then in terms of.
Rapid response in general.
I mean, you're talking aboutmissile defense, so I can only
imagine there's times where it'slike, okay, we have a very time
(19:48):
sensitive situation here.
How do you, you know, talkabout, um, collaborating across
groups and communicating veryquickly as a group worldwide,
how do you handle these rapid,uh, rapid fire situations and,
and these high stakes calls inthe moment?
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (20:05):
Um, so I did five combat deployments
in the Navy and, um, the mostpivotal deployment I had was
when I was an interrogator, um,for SEAL Team One out of San
Diego, and we went to Ramadi,Iraq.
Um, I'm not a SEAL.
(20:26):
I'm an intel officer thatsupported them.
Great group of leaders.
Um, they have ways of mentallypulling out of you.
What, what it is that you arecapable of doing.
Um, and they taught me how to becalm in, in the most dire of
(20:46):
circumstances.
And it's not something you, youread or, or, um, study.
You're in that environment andyou just have to learn to do it,
um, mentally and physically.
And, um, so for the last, thatwas in 2008, 2009, um, and I've
(21:06):
been operating that way eversince.
And I like to be the personthat's calm in the room, that's
got a nice calming tone of voiceand I just bring everyone
together.
Um, typically let's say for, um.
(21:27):
The missiles that were beinglaunched into Israel from Iran
all over the news.
Of course, we're, we're involvedin, in watching that play out.
Um, we're advising thepresident, the secretary of
defense, we're advising generalWhiting, um, because we have the
subject matter expertise in whatthose systems are, what the
(21:47):
systems we need to use tocounteract that.
Um, like everybody hears aboutthe Patriot missile.
So it's things like that, thatwe make sure work.
And whatever new improvementsare implemented, um, and we
just, we track that every singleday.
We have a 24 hour, um,indication and warning watch
(22:11):
floor, uh, that is wellintegrated with a lot of the
other geographic combatantcommands.
Um, and, and we watch thosethings happen and we prepare
ourselves to react to that.
Um, but if you go in there, gunsa blazing and your head's on
fire and.
You know, you're way overexcited.
(22:32):
It just causes more chaos.
It, it, um, puts people in stovepipes and I can't afford that.
So I have to go in there verycalm, very rational.
Um, and people feed off of that.
I I've noticed, um, they're,they kind of mimic what, I'm
showing or displaying.
(22:53):
Physically.
Um, and they're able to sit andthink and talk and, and
brainstorm and come up with newideas or, um, you know, what,
what have you for as long as Iremain calm and I set that tone,
I set it for the entire commandand I'm very, very self aware of
(23:14):
that.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (23:17):
And I think it's, I want to
highlight something you said.
You can't afford.
To create heightened panic inyour team.
You can't afford that.
I mean, you literally can'tafford that.
I think that's good to hear forother people as well.
If you're in a leadershipposition and there's an
escalation or there's a crisisgoing on, the way you show up
can absolutely change the toneof how your team responds.
(23:39):
People take their cues fromtheir leader.
And so I think, you know, I was,I tried to be very conscious
about that.
And even if I was like, Ooh,this is this is not a good
situation.
I would consciously.
Make myself speak slower andjust move slower and just make
sure I collected theinformation.
And before early in my career, Iwould panic and I would show
that I was panicking and thathad negative effect.
(24:01):
And then when I learned to dowhat you're talking about, it
had a much more positive effectand outcomes for the team.
But obviously, um, you know,what you do is, is, is a
different scale, but I thinkthat's a, a key thing for
leaders to hear and tohighlight.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2 (24:15):
very key.
Yep.
I started out the same way whenI first joined the Navy and had,
as an Intel officer, you get upand you brief a lot of people at
a lot of senior pay grades.
Um, and I was nervous.
I knew the material, butconstantly I was thinking, well,
what are they thinking about meand is my uniform proper, right?
It's, you know, those self sortof diagnosing scenarios that you
(24:36):
put yourself through, um, and I,but I don't do that anymore.
I just, um, I guess I, as Imatured and got more experience
and sought out a lot ofmentorship, um, from senior
members of the military that,that I admired the most, um,
and.
It's, it's easy to find a mentorin the military.
(24:58):
There's always somebody standingthere ready to to help you out
and make you better, um, becausethey're going to be leaving
soon.
We rotate a lot.
Every three years you'rerotating a new staff, a new, a
new command, a new commandingofficer.
So, um, it's good practice to,to find those different mentors,
um, different designators in theNavy.
(25:21):
They don't have to be an intelguy.
They can be, you know, a fighterpilot.
She can be a ship captain.
Um, they can be a peer or even asubordinate.
We have a lot of smart peoplethat enlist in the military And
they're, they have PhDs.
They have, um, IT degrees, theirCISSPs, their, um, PNP
certified.
(25:41):
We have a lot of smart talent inour, in our armed forces, both
military and civilian.
And it's, It would be a waste tonot tap into that.
So I do that quite a bit
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (25:53):
And given our previous conversation,
mentorship is, is a highpriority for you.
And you talked a little bitabout how that plays in the
military in your command.
How do you foster that?
Are there specific programs?
Do you just encourage peoplelike go find a mentor or go be a
mentor?
How does that come about inyour, in your command?
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02- (26:10):
Well, specifically for this command,
um, I held, I had like a townhall.
Um, I had everyone in thecommand?
sit in an auditorium.
I got up, introduced myself.
This was within my first 30days.
And I told them, I said, look,mentorship's a big deal for me.
Um, we go on a lot of travel.
(26:33):
We have a lot of, um, commandsthat we go see.
We're, we're in Indo Pacom, uh,we're in the Pacific, we're in
Europe, we're in the Atlantic,um, visiting all those commands
where, and we're putting namesto faces so that we can build
that relationship with thoseother commands.
So it's, it makes it harder forthem to say no when we ask for
(26:55):
something.
Right.
Because now they have a face,they kind of know you and it's
like, well, okay.
I met the guy or I met the galand they're good people.
They they're doing theirmission.
What the general asked them todo.
It's let's help them out type ofdeal.
So I like to encourage that.
And I told my, my C suiteleaders, we call them J codes.
(27:15):
They're, um, directors.
I said, if you guys are goingTDY, I'm not going to approve
it.
If you go temporary travelaround the, around the globe, I
won't approve it.
Unless you're taking someone tomentor, uh, whether it's an
officer or, uh, a civilianemployee, um, and everybody
really liked that idea.
(27:36):
Um, and it sort of forced that,that mentorship in that way.
And then it, um, opened up thedoors for, Hey, sir, you know,
we went on this trip to Europe.
Um, when we get back, can youhelp me with, uh, I'm thinking
about doing this in my career.
I'm thinking about changing thisin my career, or I'm thinking
about changing my careeraltogether and getting out of
(27:59):
the military and doing somethingcompletely different.
Um, it's opened those doors andI keep my door open and I've got
a lot of people that I mentorand I have two, uh, staff
members that I call seniormentor, uh, in the open.
And everybody kind of like looksat me, they're like, sorry, but
you're the chief of staff.
But, you know, I'm like, butthese two guys are Oh, sixes.
(28:19):
They're colonels, full birds.
They've got 30 years ofexperience.
I would be an idiot if I didn'task them.
They know so much and they'vegot a different perspective on
everything.
One is in the army.
The other one's in the airforce.
I was in the Navy.
So I get that joint.
I get their points of view fromtheir services and it helps you
(28:41):
better.
It makes the general's jobeasier because now we're
connecting all of that tissue,if you will, um, across the
globe so that we can do our joband help the do their job
better.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_ (28:55):
love that approach.
I wish more people saw it thatway.
Whereas like you have all theseresources, all these amazing,
talented, skilled people aroundyou.
Why wouldn't you at least justhave a conversation?
I mean, the worst they can sayis no, I'm too busy this quarter
or whatever, but so many peoplewould love to help.
They love to help and give back.
Um, so I
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2 (29:13):
Give them that opportunity.
I like to give people theopportunity to, um, I like to
give them access andopportunity.
Um, And I encourage them to getup there and fail.
If you're going to give a briefand it's your first time
briefing, it's okay.
You're going to, you're going tofail, but you're going to get
better.
(29:33):
Um, I'm not, I'm not going to,you know, penalize you or, or
reprimand you for not, um,having that type of, um, that
attitude.
If, if, you know, you're onlygoing to get better if you
practice.
I encourage that.
And, um, so I, I call itopportunity and, and access, um,
(29:56):
give them the opportunity andthey'll, they'll take it.
You give them access toleadership, to brief.
It only helps them make somebetter.
Um, that's how the, the SEALteam did it for me.
They gave me that opportunityto, to fail the opportunity to
improve and get better.
And, and here I am today.
So.
Um, I, I, that's something Iwant to give back to the people
(30:19):
that are coming up behind mebecause this won't be a full
time, you know, a lifetime jobfor me and my, I still have
plans of going to the seniorexecutive services is my next
step.
So I need to teach someone.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_ (30:34):
Well thank Yes.
Well thank you so much for, forwhat you do in, in the
mentorship space.
'cause it is, it is soimportant.
And it just sounds like fromjust what you've said here,
you've helped so many people.
So thank you for that.
And I, again, people listening,please do this yourselves,
encourage your teams, uh,'causeit has great benefits and
dividends for the people aroundyou.
(30:56):
So you're a supporter ofmentorship, you're also a
passionate advocate.
Uh, for mental health and youspeak publicly about this.
So I was wondering, can youshare your experiences in Walter
Reed and what the main messagesthat you're wanting to convey,
uh, when you speak to peopleabout this?
squadcaster-77je_2_ (31:13):
absolutely.
Um, so for sake of time and,and, and details, um, I joined
the Navy in 1998.
Uh, in 1999 and 2000, um, we hadseveral world issues.
We had the Albanian separatistcrisis that was occurring in now
(31:36):
North Macedonia and Albania.
Um, it was almost a civil warthere between, um, Muslims and,
and Greek, like Orthodox, um,religious factions.
Um, the city of Skopje isdivided by a river.
(31:57):
I went from that deployment, Iwent to Iraq right after that,
uh, I deployed to Jordan, so Idid back to back to back to
back, yeah, um, combatdeployments, and you see things,
you experience things that areThat are not what an average
(32:19):
person from anywhere in Americais used to seeing or engaging
in.
And depending on where you're atand who you're with, who you're
working for, what you do,you're, you're constantly at,
you're running at 110 percent ofyour emotional, physical, and
(32:43):
mental ability.
Uh, you don't sleep a lot, youdon't eat well, you don't get
enough exercise, so your, yourbody's constantly in this state.
gauntlet, if you will, um, likea Spartan race.
And you do that for six months,every day for six months, you
don't get a day off.
You know, it's not like westopped fighting on the weekend.
(33:06):
Um, I've done this deployment ona two aircraft carriers, the
John F.
Kennedy and the Abraham Lincoln.
Um, I've done it with groundforces and I've done it
individually.
Um, and it's, you, you don'tknow how to turn it off when you
get back and it creates a lot ofstress.
(33:27):
Um, both mentally andphysically, and so I noticed my
particular case, I noticed thatwhen I was on deployments, I was
fine mentally and physically,uh, when I had that downtime and
I wasn't on a deployment, that'swhen I start missing the team
(33:48):
that I was with.
Um, I'm, I'm edgy.
I'm agitated, uh, shorttempered.
I was never violent.
That was very like, you and Iwouldn't be having this?
conversation because I would, Iwould think of it as like, why
are you, what do you want toknow about me?
What are you trying to get?
Right.
There's some sort of otherangle, um, that somebody is
(34:10):
trying to do to me.
And it was ruining, it wasruining my family.
It was ruining my personalrelationships with neighbors and
friends.
Um, and I was on the Navy staff.
And the four star of the Navythat at that time was Admiral
Richardson, and he created atask force called Task Force
(34:31):
Resilient.
And I got to go to that, um, as,as one of the subject matter
experts to figure out how can wedo this better than the Navy?
How can we get people back fromcombat, back from, um, stressful
deployments, um, and to havethem integrate better and be
more efficient and more lethalwhen they come back.
(34:55):
And, um, So I was on that taskforce.
My job was to interview, um,agencies around the globe, law
enforcement agencies.
And the one thing I found outwas that there is a lot of, uh,
psychological and mental healthprofessional staffers, um, on a
lot of these agencies like NYPD,um, LAPD, Miami Dade, um,
(35:18):
Washington Metro.
There's a staff.
So when an officer is involvedin a shooting, they get their
gun, they take their badge, theygo on this.
small hiatus, if you will, andthey, they talk to mental health
professionals because that'stragic.
Um, the trauma that you, you seeand you hear at Harbor really
eats you up.
(35:38):
And, and that's what happened tome.
Um, while I was on that taskforce, I also was a patient at
Walter Reed, um, Army MedicalCenter in Bethesda.
And I was in a group of 25 guys,Half the guys knew who I was
from deployments, my time in theNavy.
Um, so we were personal friends,but I didn't tell anybody I was
(35:59):
in it.
And the Admiral that was runningthe show at the time, Admiral
Donagan, great man.
Um, he said, don't tell anybody.
Just keep going.
And at the end, we're going tooutbrief everyone's project and
you go last.
So I was the last guy to briefmy project.
And I heard all the stereotypes,right?
Like, Oh, I've never had thisperson fly a jet.
(36:22):
This person could never go incombat.
This person can't go on a ship.
Um, so I, I had, I was goingthrough treatment and I was also
hearing a lot of the stereotypesand the stigmas.
And when I finally said, Hey,I'm actually in the program now
at Walter Reed, and I guaranteethat the tools they've taught me
(36:44):
make me more lethal, more selfaware, um, and, and more
competent.
I, I, I'm not held captive tothose traumatic issues anymore.
I know how to deal with them.
Um, and I started.
openly talking about it becausethat's what I needed.
(37:04):
I just needed somebody that wasa senior officer in the military
that said it's, this is okay andyou're not going to lose your
career over it.
Uh, you're not going to loseyour security clearance.
Uh, if you, you know, your topsecret clearance, you're not
going to lose your time flying ajet.
Um, and, and people We'restunned.
(37:26):
So I flew out to Columbus AirForce Base in Mississippi in
September.
Um, and that's where all the newAir Force pilots go to train on
their specific platforms.
I briefed over 500 brand newpilots.
Uh, brought in the mental healthdoctor from that.
from that hospital.
And I told them my story.
Uh, I got to go into detail withthem cause I had all day.
(37:49):
Um, and it was remarkable.
I have people that call meconstantly texting me saying,
Hey, J Dub, I went to mentalhealth.
It's been great.
Hey, J Dub.
Um, I want to go to mentalhealth, but I'm scared of this
or that.
They call me, my phone rings 24hours a day and I will pick it
up.
Uh, and I'll, I'll talk topeople.
(38:10):
I just had a meeting two weeksago with a guy here, um, and I
walked, had lunch with him andthen walked to mental health
with him just to get him in thedoor and that was, right?
And, and I get these texts I canshow you later.
Um, it's like, you changed mylife.
Like, thank you so much.
That, and that's, That's whathappened to me.
Uh, the Navy provided that tome, so I want to give that back
(38:34):
to everyone else that comes myway and says, you know, hey, I
want to listen to what you haveto say, Jada.
Um, I was scheduled to go toFlorida State University, my
alma mater, uh, this month, uh,but unfortunately, For the
presidential transition again,we're going to be very busy
(38:56):
giving information to theincoming administration.
So this month is going to behorrible for me.
But next month, I'm trying toget out there for one of their
career.
Their career discussion days,um, about government service,
uh, federal employment, thingslike that.
Um, where I can also, where Ialso share my story of mental
(39:19):
health.
I, but I
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_ (39:22):
Wow.
Well, yeah.
Thank you so much for what youdo and also for sharing that
story.
I think it's really importantfor people to hear, um,
Something like you who had likeidentified, addressed and
overcame, you know, mentalhealth challenges, which were
more than understandable givenwhat you had gone through and,
(39:42):
and that you are successful andthat you are at the top of your
field and that you work withSEAL teams and you support
generals who support thePresident of the United States.
Like, like, it doesn't mean youcannot be successful if you have
something you're dealing with inyour mental health.
So I think it's, I thank youvery much for sharing that.
I think it's really importantfor people to hear.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2 (40:03):
And, and that goes into the corporate
environment as well, right?
Um, there's a lot of stressfulsituations when it comes to, you
know, product development.
Or quarterly earnings statementsand things like that.
Like that's a lot of pressure ona CEO.
That's a lot of pressure on achief of staff for a situation
like that.
Um, It's, it's no different,right?
(40:23):
Those are, those are juststressful situations that your,
that your brain goes into andyour body reacts to that and it
gets addicted to that, um, thatchemical that releases in your
brain when you're, when you'rein a stressful situation.
Um, but if you remain calm andyou get help and you figure out
how to recognize it when ithappens, uh, how to deal with
(40:46):
it.
You know, there's, there's nostopping you And you help other
people do it.
And, you know, it just, it justkeeps going And going and going,
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (40:58):
And when I talk about this with
people, I always try to equateit to, um, we talk about our
physical fitness a lot,especially in the U S we're kind
of obsessed with like physicalfitness and what's your training
program.
And you're going for runs andworkouts and eating and diets
and all these things for ourphysical health, which is
fantastic and great.
Uh, but people just kind of.
either ignore the mental healthor they put that in like an
(41:20):
entirely different kind oftabooed stigma category, which I
just find interesting.
It's like, it's the same, you'retaking care of your health and
that includes your mental healthand what's happening
emotionally.
And so I, like, I want people tosay, you know, I was talking to
my therapist or I was talking tomy counselor.
I went to a mental health group,whatever, just the same as like,
I went to the gym, you know, I'mtrying this new kind of eating
(41:42):
program type of thing.
Because to me, it's like,you're, you're just taking care
of yourself.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (41:47):
And that's, that's part of who I am
as a chief of staff here.
Um, that's who I am as a leaderacross the board.
Um, and it's, it's somethingthat I, like, As you said, I
will tell people that I told mycommand as the new chief of
(42:07):
staff, if I give you time to goto the gym because the military
gives you an hour, three days aweek to go to the gym on company
time.
So if I give you time to dothat, I give you time to go to
church on Sundays, whatever yourreligion may be.
Um, I give you time off to go toyour daughter's piano recital or
dance recital.
(42:28):
Why would I not give you time togo to mental health?
I mean, it's.
Right.
It's a workout for your brain.
I love that field.
I love that community.
Um, it's, it's given me my lifeback.
Um, help me figure out my, mypurpose in life.
My drive is, is, is much more,uh, intense for, for life and,
(42:49):
and experiences and, and takingon hard challenges and, and
trying to succeed in those.
Um, which is why I bought yourbook.
Um, if If I had a, it's, I, Icall it my chief of staff Bible
and, and it's, it's got red andgreen.
I color coded the tabs on allthese little things that were in
(43:09):
their book about, you know, how,how to communicate with someone
who might be, uh, cause I workwith a guy that applied for my
job, but didn't get it.
So there was some attentionthere, right?
So I, I just went up to him andsaid, Hey, you know, I'm, I
heard you interviewed for thejob.
You know, um, That's a big stepfor you, you know, and it, and
(43:35):
it says a lot more about you asa, as a, as a professional that
you're staying here, eventhough, you know, you didn't get
that promotion, um, and you'restill churning and I'm looking
for you to be more involved.
Um, more integrated, take up abigger role in the company
because that was your goal.
(43:57):
And if that's still your goal inthe future, I want to help you
get there, whether I'm in thatseat or not.
So, and that helped a lot.
Our relationship changed on adime and we, my staff texts me
all the time.
I have two cell phones, which Ithink is kind of absurd, but,
um, they're good.
They go off the hook and myleadership team has 24 hour
(44:18):
access to me at any time.
Um, But your book was amazingand I'm glad because it gave me
this opportunity to finally meetyou and get on your podcast and,
um, and share the, the successstories that I got from your
book.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025 (44:35):
Well, I'm, I'm humbled and honored
that I could offer a small pieceof helpful information to you.
So, um, uh, absolutely,absolutely privileged that you,
that you read the book.
Um, if someone is listening andthey were hearing the part about
mental health and they, um,wanna reach out to some, someone
to engage with someone on thatfor themselves or someone they
(44:56):
know, do you have any goodresources for where people
should go for that?
squadcaster-77je_2_01-0 (45:00):
there's a, there's a 1 800 number, uh,
nationally, but what I dealwith, cause I'm in a lot of
military communities, um,there's, uh, the Military
OneSource is a resource.
Uh, the Navy, the Navy AidSociety, there is, uh, the
(45:21):
Soldiers and Sailors Relief, um,Society.
They're all phone numbers in, inthe military community that you
can, um, have access to, uh,chaplains, doctors, commanders.
We have it.
It's, it's almost a DODregulation.
You have stuff like that on a,on a bulletin board for the
(45:41):
entire command to see.
And, and I'll share because I'mvery proud of my kids, my, I
have a 20 year old now and a 14year old now, and they both go
to mental health every Tuesday.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_10 (45:56):
Oh
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (45:57):
and they're, they're some of the
most resilient young ladies I'veever seen.
And, you know, their mom and Iwant them to be that way.
Um, and why not go to mentalhealth?
Cause they lived.
Seeing dad struggle, they re,you know, they, they saw me
going to mental health andgetting better and having a
(46:17):
complete 180 change of my life.
And, um, they just called, uh,it's the family care center here
in Colorado Springs.
They are amazing.
Um, they just call them, got anappointment and they go.
Sometimes it's onteleconference, sometimes it's
in person, but they spend anhour and it's inexpensive.
(46:39):
And it's 35.
You know, a session to go.
So I, if somebody is in thissituation, they're not in
military community.
I would just say, go to a mentalhealth clinic and, and pay for
the session.
It it'll, it'll change yourlife.
Absolutely.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025 (46:59):
Yeah.
Make it part of your regularroutine.
I'm so that's so that's so I'm,it's funny, but it's, I'm very
happy that your daughters are,are doing that.
And I also think it's importantto highlight some of the things
you said.
It made you better.
So I think people at the bottomwhen they're just, you know,
kind of crushed in on themselvesand everything's dark and this
is horrible, I can't get out ofthis.
It can get better.
(47:19):
And some of the things you'vesaid is.
It made me more lethal.
It made me sharper.
It made me better.
It made me stronger.
and so it's not a sign ofweakness.
It's you're actually makingyourself, uh, a more kind of
optimized human.
So I think that's, uh, importantto say, say as well, but JW,
you've been so generous withyour time and the information
(47:40):
you shared, just giveneverything we've spoken about,
is there anything else you wantpeople to know about?
What you and your command aredoing, anything about mentorship
or anything else on mentalhealth that you want to make
sure to get across.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (47:51):
Uh, so for the first one, um, JIFIC
IMD and U.
S.
Space Command, uh, they're ingreat hands.
They're there with some, some ofthe most brilliant four star
generals I've ever met.
Um, So the nation is very securethere.
(48:12):
Um, it's a great place to work.
They're always hiring.
Um, if you're interested ingovernment service in that
capacity, I would encourageeverybody to go to USAJOBS and
look for U.
S.
Space Command.
Um, there are a ton of greatopportunities to get involved.
Uh, when it comes to mentalhealth, You know, think of it as
(48:35):
going to the gym, like I saidbefore, um, it's going to the
gym through your brain.
And it could be, you don't haveto go there because you have an
issue.
You can go there just to makesure that whatever you're
feeling, whatever you'reexperiencing, however you're
processing your environment,whether it's normal or not, in
most cases, it's a normalreaction that your body's going
(48:58):
through.
And um, and, and, you know, thattakes a lot of pressure off, um,
off of you as an individual,because now you're up.
saying to yourself, man, I'mkind of crazy or I messed up.
It's like, no, this is, this isnormal re behavior.
This is a normal reaction tostimulus in my environment.
And now I know how to preparefor it and how to deal with it.
(49:20):
Just like we prepare for, youknow, riding our bike and
getting in a, in an accident,you know, you're going to wear a
helmet because you know, you'regoing to get hit in the head.
It's the same thing.
Um, and then for mentorship,That is both up and down the
chain of command.
Uh, don't, I would encouragepeople not to wait.
(49:41):
I didn't wait for the general totell me what to do.
I went in and did it and toldhim what I did and, and ask for
guidance since, you know, it's,sir, this is what I did.
You saw the email.
Um, it's, this is my intent.
This is what I'm doing.
This is what I've done.
If you have any feedback or wantme to change anything, let me
know.
(50:01):
And it's, I, every time I emailit, it's, uh, Keep going, uh,
move out and draw fire as anarmy officer says, right?
So, and I do that and Iencourage people to do that, um,
whatever capacity they're in,um, mentor up the chain.
And I like to think that Imentored general Ganey at times.
(50:23):
Um, I wrote an op ed for himjust, uh, new year's Eve, uh,
that he really I think is goingto help him when he testifies in
front of Congress, uh, in thecoming year and, uh, just mentor
down as well and don't forget,you know, your left and right
that appear could be extremelyknowledgeable, have that
(50:47):
experience.
You just don't know until youask.
Um, don't be shy or bashful.
Just be, you want to makeyourself better and you want to
make your command better, yourcompany better, your staff
better, um, going forward.
It just makes you moreproductive.
It makes you more, uh,efficient.
It makes you more effective.
(51:08):
It makes you more lethal.
It makes you more, um,profitable.
emily-sander_2_01-02-202 (51:13):
That's a great note to end on.
And J Dub, thank you once againfor being on and sharing all
that you have.
And thank you for everythingthat you do.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2 (51:20):
yes, ma'am, I really appreciate the
time and the opportunity.
And I look forward to chattingwith you again.
Hey, this is a quick note fromEmily in the future.
The guest you're about to hearfrom is fantastic due to a
security protocol.
He had to take the interviewfrom his car outside the
military base he was on.
So the audio and video just forthe first eight minutes is a
little bit more choppy thannormal, but after that, it evens
out.
But the content, the experience,the background, the story is
(00:47):
fantastic.
So I definitely wanted to sharethat with you.
So without further ado, here isthat conversation.
emily-sander_1_01-02-20 (00:55):
Welcome back to leveraging leadership.
Today's guest is Jonathan J DubWilliams, and he has a long,
fancy title.
So let me read this to you.
He is the chief of staff for thejoint functional component
command for integrated missiledefense, a subordinate command
to the U S space Command.
and before we dive in a quickdisclaimer, Mr.
(01:15):
Williams is here today in hispersonal capacity, the views and
opinions he shares are his ownand do not represent the
department of defense or itspolicies.
With that, J Dub, welcome to theshow.
It's very nice to see you again.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's nice to see you, Emily.
Thanks for having me.
emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_ (01:31):
just to start out with, could you
share a bit about yourbackground and your journey to
the chief of staff role at thedepartment of defense?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Sure.
So I back in 1998, um, as anaval officer, my designator was
intelligence and bent over.
20 years, um, holding positions,uh, of greater senior.
(02:01):
And responsibility, uh,throughout those years from
working writer squadron as theintel officer to being an
interrogator, uh, with, uh, theSEAL Team 1, um, in Ramadi,
Iraq.
And then, uh, I came out here aspace professional.
Uh, there was a very small cadreof, uh, Navy officers that were
(02:26):
space educated.
And when Space Command wasgetting ready to stand up.
Decided well, I can retire ortake this next step and I took
the next step and I'm glad I didbecause now Um, uh, the chief of
or J.
T.
F.
space command is a graphiccombatant command.
(02:46):
Uh, it was around in theeighties and then at 9 11, uh,
they started the U.
S.
Northern Command.
Uh, several years go by and werealized yeah.
Our importance, uh, with spaceassets and fight that may come
(03:07):
in all deals with.
With a lot of that, that is inspace from satellites to
communications.
Uh, you know, the simple thingfrom paying for gas at a pump or
taking out cash at an A.
T.
M.
at all.
It's all based in space.
So space command is in charge.
(03:30):
If you, if you look up in thesky and you go 100 kilometers
up, that's where their area it.
So that's technical spacebegins.
Uh, anything below that is U.
S.
strategic command.
It's also separated graphicallyby other component commands,
(03:53):
like the European commandobviously has EUCOM, um, has
Europe.
Central command has, um, theMiddle East, the Pacific.
Of course, the Pacific, but theuniqueness of space command is
that we are trans regional.
We go up and we intersect every.
(04:15):
Patent commands, uh, areaability, and those are all
chaired by four star generals oradmirals.
Uh, the joint functionalcomponent command for integrated
missile defense, a J ffic.
Um, the J FFIC is responsible,uh, integrated missile defense
(04:39):
where we take joint capabilitiesdevelopment.
We advocate for the war fighter,uh, the operator that operates
technology and we.
Make sure that those resourcesare shared cross combatant
commands.
So if you picture a missilecoming out of, say, Iran, and
(05:04):
it's flying into, um, 100nautical miles above the earth,
and it's, so it's in space,transiting, say, to the United
States, it's going to go overCENTCOM, it's going to go over
European command, it's going togo into U.
S.
And we need to make sure thatall those pieces are connected
(05:26):
and talking to each other sothat?
we can provide a defensivecapability.
emily-sander_1_01-02-20 (05:32):
Gotcha.
Yes, that would be good.
So thank you for what you do.
And thank you for what all ofyour colleagues do.
Uh, thank you for thatexplanation.
And then in this case, who isyour principal?
So it's a general, not a CEO inthis case, but can you talk a
little bit about your chain ofcommand there?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Sure.
So my immediate chain of commandgoes from, uh, Lieutenant
General Ganey.
He's our Army general.
Uh, he wears several hats.
He's the Army's strategiccommander for Army's
capabilities.
Um, he's also the U.
(06:09):
S.
Space and Missile Defense Centerofficer and he's also our
commanding general.
So he wears several hats.
Um, he's a three star.
We have a deputy commander who06, a full bird colonel, and
then there's the staff we allreport to general being a four
(06:31):
star general who's in charge ofU.
S.
Space Command.
So we're doing so his from thepresident And the general
Whiting at Space Command ischarged with.
Regional missile defense, whichis what we do, and we do that on
behalf of General Whiting,because we have that capability.
We have the expertise in house
emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_1 (06:53):
and is general Whiting, I see.
And is General Whiting the onewho would present the defense
proposal on to the president onbehalf of what his subordinates
have put together and what he'sapproved.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
He has, in some cases, um, Lieutenant on, uh,
for his, for the hat that hewears as Jiffy commander.
So he testified in Congress, uh,just in April of 2024, um,
wearing.
emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_100 (07:29):
I see.
Okay.
So you're supporting some veryinfluential people to, to say
the least.
Um, okay.
Thank you for that context.
That will be helpful to manylisteners, um, who are not as
familiar with the militaryapparatus as you are.
So when we first connected, youwere going into this role and we
were talking about your first30, 60, 90 days, and it sounded
(07:53):
like there wasn't.
an official program or protocolfor chiefs of staff.
It was, I have this jointcommand and I have to coordinate
all of these differentdepartments and divisions and
directories, um, go and you hadvery good instincts and were
able to put together a lot ofpieces that brought transparency
and visibility and.
(08:14):
open communication.
to the groups you are workingwith, but just
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (08:18):
You know, how did you get into the
role of chief of staff and whatdid your first 30, 60, 90 days
look like?
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-202 (08:24):
So it was a competitive process.
I applied, um, through USA jobsand I had an, a real extensive
interview, uh, with four seniorofficers.
Um, and it was about an hour,about an hour interview.
Um, and about a month after theinterview, maybe six weeks, I
(08:46):
got the, Um, the job offer.
So when I first got on board,um, typically in the military,
when you show up, uh, the someof the advice, whether it's good
or bad is to, Hey, don't makeany significant changes Right.
away.
Right.
Um, get the lay of the land,kind of see what's going on.
(09:09):
Um, well, I, I needed to speedthat up, um, because our mission
is, our mission is, is veryimportant.
Um, I was coming in at the endof the fiscal year.
Um, so I wanted to make surethat I was in lockstep with
Lieutenant General Ganey, um,and what he told Congress that
(09:31):
he was going to do.
Uh, and during my interview, Ipromised that that's exactly
what I was, I was intending todo.
So when I got on board, um, Imet with every, you can look at
them as C suite members.
So I have, uh, eight officers.
Um, they range from They'rejoint service, military and
(09:54):
civilian.
They're all 06s or GS 14s.
So I'm the senior civilian forthe command.
Um, and I sat down with every,every one, uh, for about 45
minutes.
I, I asked them to bring metheir issues.
Give me the, um, the brief ofwhat, what it is that their
(10:14):
directorate, uh, is in chargeof, big issues they're having,
the projects that are workingon, uh, and how I can help.
And I asked them to just becandid with me, um, because I'm
a very transparent, um, type ofleader.
So I was able to speed up my 30day assessment and make all
(10:38):
those changes within my firstfew weeks, um, relatively easy
and smoothly.
And I got a huge, it did pay,um, great dividends going, going
forward.
I'm working on my 90 dayassessment now.
Um, and we've made significantprogress.
(10:59):
And the command is, is muchbetter.
Um, I'm not saying that it'sbecause of me, it's because I've
allowed those senior officers.
To be autonomous, to have theirauthority over their
directorate, uh, and haveresponsibility.
So I don't want to micromanagethem.
(11:20):
They're very seniorprofessionals, um, who've had 30
years like?
myself in the industry.
So I just, I need them to, toact that way.
Um, and it was a good reliefthat.
I did on their behalf becausethey were, they were very
energized when I told them thatasked them to do that.
(11:43):
And then I displayed it, um, tothem by giving them more things
in their bailiwick, if you will,to do, um, I cut out a lot of
meetings that were pointless,time consuming.
Uh, some meetings covered thesame thing.
So I created one staff meeting,uh, it's every Monday and it's
(12:06):
the chief of staff sync meetingwith all of my directors.
Uh, and we go over the issuesfor the week from personnel to,
uh, computer issues to futureprojects, to.
Um, integration with foreignpartners or other combatant
commands, it runs the gamut andwe, we sit in there for an hour.
(12:29):
It's very process driven, verystreamlined and efficient.
Um, and it's, and it's provedfruitful for the command.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_ (12:40):
Yes.
And along with the one on onesyou did and the rethinking of
meetings, streamlining those, Iwant to, I want to call out and
highlight a few other things youdid, which you first of all took
the session the general had withCongress and said, here's,
here's the mandate.
Here's the overall, you know,what we're supposed to be
driving towards.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02 (12:59):
ma'am.
emily-sander_2_01-0 (13:01):
Repurposing what was said there into here's
what we're driving after.
Here's the objective.
And then, um, you also took that30 day assessment that you
provided to the general and youpush that to the entire command
so they could see what you hadsaid.
And I think that was the firsttime that had ever happened.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-202 (13:19):
It was the first time.
Uh, so when I got on board, Iwas asking random, uh,
employees, Hey, what, what doyou think, Our mission is, what
do you think your contributionto our mission is?
And people had a huge sort of,well, they were very disjointed
(13:41):
in what they thought they did,who they did it for and what,
what sort of, um, interactionthey had and what, what they,
what their participation was,you know, what their piece of
the pie was.
Um, So I read General Ganey'stestimony to Congress.
I itemized it, lined it out,like, as you saw, um, and I told
(14:04):
the command that, okay, here'sme, this is my leadership style,
and these are the things you'regoing to see, uh, me get after
right away.
Uh, so I sent that to the entirecommand.
Uh, the general really liked it.
And the command appreciated itbecause they, they were like,
everyone was on the same sheetof music going forward.
(14:25):
They're like, okay, we know whyhe's here.
We know why he's making changes.
Uh, because the general promisedCongress that he would.
So I just put those into action.
Um, and it worked out great.
Um, we've made huge strides in,uh, in almost my 90 day mark.
(14:46):
Uh, that, I mean, a hundredpercent in some areas.
60, 75 percent and many others.
It's been phenomenal, but thattrans transparency from senior
leadership, uh, is invaluable.
If you, if you, I'm that type ofleader that says, if I'm going
to do something and I put it inwriting, I do it.
(15:08):
And, and everyone was veryappreciative of that.
And it's to this day, it'sstill, it's still running full
steam.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (15:16):
And then what's your approach to
collecting feedback ongoing,right?
Cause it's a dynamic evolvingkind of living process where you
want to make sure you'retransparent in terms of.
Letting the teams know what thecommander's intent is in this
case, a real commander, a realgeneral, what the commander's
intent is.
So they understand, and thenalso feeding up relevant,
(15:39):
helpful information toleadership that the people, you
know, on the front lines know,and they just have a different
level of access to or differentperspective on how do you gather
that feedback and convey that.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (15:51):
Uh, so I I'm very mobile.
As a, as a leader, um, I like toget out and talk to the people
that are, I'm working with, um,in their workspace.
Uh, I try to keep it veryinformal so that they're able to
talk to me.
A lot of people will say, sir,yes, sir.
Um, but the people that havelike a long history in the
(16:13):
military or.
knew me, um, when I moved herein Colorado Springs on active
duty in 2018, then, uh, a lot ofpeople stay here.
Cause it's beautiful.
Um, they'll call me JW.
And I asked people to call methat because I.
That, that feedback is importantto me on where they think they
(16:35):
are, what, what they think isgoing on, um, if it's working or
not, or if there's a better wayto do it.
Uh, so I'm constantly in that,in that environment, putting my,
my employees in thatenvironment.
And then I write a report everyMonday.
I don't know if I showed that toyou, but it's usually the notes
(16:55):
that I take during my chief ofstaff meeting.
And I'll tell the generalexactly what is being said.
In the command.
So there's, there's no guessworkthat everybody knows from the
general down to my it tech.
Um, everybody knows whateverybody's thinking and doing
and working on.
(17:16):
And you can just take thatdocument and walk across, uh,
the building to another sectionand integrate yourself with
whatever it is that they'redoing.
Cause all, a lot of the piecesoverlap, um, and they're able to
see that.
now.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (17:33):
And with that summary snapshot from
the Monday chief of staffmeetings, we're What else, just
in general, you being chief ofstaff to General Gainey, what
does he need from you to do hisjob effectively?
I
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (17:47):
So.
He needs me to make sure thatthe staff, uh, is, is cohesive.
They're operating as one unit.
Um, they're communicating openlywith each other that they're
integrated.
Um, and that's where thetransparency, my 60, 30, 60, 90
(18:10):
day assessment, my weekly, um,chief of staff sync notes that I
give to the command and to thecommander.
Everybody sees what everyoneelse is doing.
And for the first time, thiscommand has been around for 20
years.
Uh, and for the first time, alot of these employees that have
been there for that long said,it's never been this way.
(18:31):
Um, and that's not due to me.
It's just, I learned throughoutmy career that if you know what
the boss wants, you don't haveto guess, and you're usually
right the first time.
Um, and in our mission.
(18:51):
You don't have the luxury of alot of time, um, cause a lot of
things are wanted right awayfrom Congress or from the
secretary of defense or thepresident.
Um, and you constantly have tobe on your toes for that.
Um, and that takes an entireteam to do.
And that's what general gamingneeds for me ultimately is to
(19:13):
make sure that the team, I gotthe proper lineup.
Everybody's fielded and haspracticed and warmed up and is
ready to play the game everysingle day.
And that's what I try to do.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_ (19:26):
love that analogy that they're warmed
up and ready to play at any, atany moment, because if the
secretary of defense or thepresident calls, you probably
need to reprioritize what you'redoing and get that done, I would
imagine.
And, and then in terms of.
Rapid response in general.
I mean, you're talking aboutmissile defense, so I can only
imagine there's times where it'slike, okay, we have a very time
(19:48):
sensitive situation here.
How do you, you know, talkabout, um, collaborating across
groups and communicating veryquickly as a group worldwide,
how do you handle these rapid,uh, rapid fire situations and,
and these high stakes calls inthe moment?
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (20:05):
Um, so I did five combat deployments
in the Navy and, um, the mostpivotal deployment I had was
when I was an interrogator, um,for SEAL Team One out of San
Diego, and we went to Ramadi,Iraq.
Um, I'm not a SEAL.
(20:26):
I'm an intel officer thatsupported them.
Great group of leaders.
Um, they have ways of mentallypulling out of you.
What, what it is that you arecapable of doing.
Um, and they taught me how to becalm in, in the most dire of
(20:46):
circumstances.
And it's not something you, youread or, or, um, study.
You're in that environment andyou just have to learn to do it,
um, mentally and physically.
And, um, so for the last, thatwas in 2008, 2009, um, and I've
(21:06):
been operating that way eversince.
And I like to be the personthat's calm in the room, that's
got a nice calming tone of voiceand I just bring everyone
together.
Um, typically let's say for, um.
(21:27):
The missiles that were beinglaunched into Israel from Iran
all over the news.
Of course, we're, we're involvedin, in watching that play out.
Um, we're advising thepresident, the secretary of
defense, we're advising generalWhiting, um, because we have the
subject matter expertise in whatthose systems are, what the
(21:47):
systems we need to use tocounteract that.
Um, like everybody hears aboutthe Patriot missile.
So it's things like that, thatwe make sure work.
And whatever new improvementsare implemented, um, and we
just, we track that every singleday.
We have a 24 hour, um,indication and warning watch
(22:11):
floor, uh, that is wellintegrated with a lot of the
other geographic combatantcommands.
Um, and, and we watch thosethings happen and we prepare
ourselves to react to that.
Um, but if you go in there, gunsa blazing and your head's on
fire and.
You know, you're way overexcited.
(22:32):
It just causes more chaos.
It, it, um, puts people in stovepipes and I can't afford that.
So I have to go in there verycalm, very rational.
Um, and people feed off of that.
I I've noticed, um, they're,they kind of mimic what, I'm
showing or displaying.
(22:53):
Physically.
Um, and they're able to sit andthink and talk and, and
brainstorm and come up with newideas or, um, you know, what,
what have you for as long as Iremain calm and I set that tone,
I set it for the entire commandand I'm very, very self aware of
(23:14):
that.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (23:17):
And I think it's, I want to
highlight something you said.
You can't afford.
To create heightened panic inyour team.
You can't afford that.
I mean, you literally can'tafford that.
I think that's good to hear forother people as well.
If you're in a leadershipposition and there's an
escalation or there's a crisisgoing on, the way you show up
can absolutely change the toneof how your team responds.
(23:39):
People take their cues fromtheir leader.
And so I think, you know, I was,I tried to be very conscious
about that.
And even if I was like, Ooh,this is this is not a good
situation.
I would consciously.
Make myself speak slower andjust move slower and just make
sure I collected theinformation.
And before early in my career, Iwould panic and I would show
that I was panicking and thathad negative effect.
(24:01):
And then when I learned to dowhat you're talking about, it
had a much more positive effectand outcomes for the team.
But obviously, um, you know,what you do is, is, is a
different scale, but I thinkthat's a, a key thing for
leaders to hear and tohighlight.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2 (24:15):
very key.
Yep.
I started out the same way whenI first joined the Navy and had,
as an Intel officer, you get upand you brief a lot of people at
a lot of senior pay grades.
Um, and I was nervous.
I knew the material, butconstantly I was thinking, well,
what are they thinking about meand is my uniform proper, right?
It's, you know, those self sortof diagnosing scenarios that you
(24:36):
put yourself through, um, and I,but I don't do that anymore.
I just, um, I guess I, as Imatured and got more experience
and sought out a lot ofmentorship, um, from senior
members of the military that,that I admired the most, um,
and.
It's, it's easy to find a mentorin the military.
(24:58):
There's always somebody standingthere ready to to help you out
and make you better, um, becausethey're going to be leaving
soon.
We rotate a lot.
Every three years you'rerotating a new staff, a new, a
new command, a new commandingofficer.
So, um, it's good practice to,to find those different mentors,
um, different designators in theNavy.
(25:21):
They don't have to be an intelguy.
They can be, you know, a fighterpilot.
She can be a ship captain.
Um, they can be a peer or even asubordinate.
We have a lot of smart peoplethat enlist in the military And
they're, they have PhDs.
They have, um, IT degrees, theirCISSPs, their, um, PNP
certified.
(25:41):
We have a lot of smart talent inour, in our armed forces, both
military and civilian.
And it's, It would be a waste tonot tap into that.
So I do that quite a bit
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (25:53):
And given our previous conversation,
mentorship is, is a highpriority for you.
And you talked a little bitabout how that plays in the
military in your command.
How do you foster that?
Are there specific programs?
Do you just encourage peoplelike go find a mentor or go be a
mentor?
How does that come about inyour, in your command?
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02- (26:10):
Well, specifically for this command,
um, I held, I had like a townhall.
Um, I had everyone in thecommand?
sit in an auditorium.
I got up, introduced myself.
This was within my first 30days.
And I told them, I said, look,mentorship's a big deal for me.
Um, we go on a lot of travel.
(26:33):
We have a lot of, um, commandsthat we go see.
We're, we're in Indo Pacom, uh,we're in the Pacific, we're in
Europe, we're in the Atlantic,um, visiting all those commands
where, and we're putting namesto faces so that we can build
that relationship with thoseother commands.
So it's, it makes it harder forthem to say no when we ask for
(26:55):
something.
Right.
Because now they have a face,they kind of know you and it's
like, well, okay.
I met the guy or I met the galand they're good people.
They they're doing theirmission.
What the general asked them todo.
It's let's help them out type ofdeal.
So I like to encourage that.
And I told my, my C suiteleaders, we call them J codes.
(27:15):
They're, um, directors.
I said, if you guys are goingTDY, I'm not going to approve
it.
If you go temporary travelaround the, around the globe, I
won't approve it.
Unless you're taking someone tomentor, uh, whether it's an
officer or, uh, a civilianemployee, um, and everybody
really liked that idea.
(27:36):
Um, and it sort of forced that,that mentorship in that way.
And then it, um, opened up thedoors for, Hey, sir, you know,
we went on this trip to Europe.
Um, when we get back, can youhelp me with, uh, I'm thinking
about doing this in my career.
I'm thinking about changing thisin my career, or I'm thinking
about changing my careeraltogether and getting out of
(27:59):
the military and doing somethingcompletely different.
Um, it's opened those doors andI keep my door open and I've got
a lot of people that I mentorand I have two, uh, staff
members that I call seniormentor, uh, in the open.
And everybody kind of like looksat me, they're like, sorry, but
you're the chief of staff.
But, you know, I'm like, butthese two guys are Oh, sixes.
(28:19):
They're colonels, full birds.
They've got 30 years ofexperience.
I would be an idiot if I didn'task them.
They know so much and they'vegot a different perspective on
everything.
One is in the army.
The other one's in the airforce.
I was in the Navy.
So I get that joint.
I get their points of view fromtheir services and it helps you
(28:41):
better.
It makes the general's jobeasier because now we're
connecting all of that tissue,if you will, um, across the
globe so that we can do our joband help the do their job
better.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_ (28:55):
love that approach.
I wish more people saw it thatway.
Whereas like you have all theseresources, all these amazing,
talented, skilled people aroundyou.
Why wouldn't you at least justhave a conversation?
I mean, the worst they can sayis no, I'm too busy this quarter
or whatever, but so many peoplewould love to help.
They love to help and give back.
Um, so I
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2 (29:13):
Give them that opportunity.
I like to give people theopportunity to, um, I like to
give them access andopportunity.
Um, And I encourage them to getup there and fail.
If you're going to give a briefand it's your first time
briefing, it's okay.
You're going to, you're going tofail, but you're going to get
better.
(29:33):
Um, I'm not, I'm not going to,you know, penalize you or, or
reprimand you for not, um,having that type of, um, that
attitude.
If, if, you know, you're onlygoing to get better if you
practice.
I encourage that.
And, um, so I, I call itopportunity and, and access, um,
(29:56):
give them the opportunity andthey'll, they'll take it.
You give them access toleadership, to brief.
It only helps them make somebetter.
Um, that's how the, the SEALteam did it for me.
They gave me that opportunityto, to fail the opportunity to
improve and get better.
And, and here I am today.
So.
Um, I, I, that's something Iwant to give back to the people
(30:19):
that are coming up behind mebecause this won't be a full
time, you know, a lifetime jobfor me and my, I still have
plans of going to the seniorexecutive services is my next
step.
So I need to teach someone.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_ (30:34):
Well thank Yes.
Well thank you so much for, forwhat you do in, in the
mentorship space.
'cause it is, it is soimportant.
And it just sounds like fromjust what you've said here,
you've helped so many people.
So thank you for that.
And I, again, people listening,please do this yourselves,
encourage your teams, uh,'causeit has great benefits and
dividends for the people aroundyou.
(30:56):
So you're a supporter ofmentorship, you're also a
passionate advocate.
Uh, for mental health and youspeak publicly about this.
So I was wondering, can youshare your experiences in Walter
Reed and what the main messagesthat you're wanting to convey,
uh, when you speak to peopleabout this?
squadcaster-77je_2_ (31:13):
absolutely.
Um, so for sake of time and,and, and details, um, I joined
the Navy in 1998.
Uh, in 1999 and 2000, um, we hadseveral world issues.
We had the Albanian separatistcrisis that was occurring in now
(31:36):
North Macedonia and Albania.
Um, it was almost a civil warthere between, um, Muslims and,
and Greek, like Orthodox, um,religious factions.
Um, the city of Skopje isdivided by a river.
(31:57):
I went from that deployment, Iwent to Iraq right after that,
uh, I deployed to Jordan, so Idid back to back to back to
back, yeah, um, combatdeployments, and you see things,
you experience things that areThat are not what an average
(32:19):
person from anywhere in Americais used to seeing or engaging
in.
And depending on where you're atand who you're with, who you're
working for, what you do,you're, you're constantly at,
you're running at 110 percent ofyour emotional, physical, and
(32:43):
mental ability.
Uh, you don't sleep a lot, youdon't eat well, you don't get
enough exercise, so your, yourbody's constantly in this state.
gauntlet, if you will, um, likea Spartan race.
And you do that for six months,every day for six months, you
don't get a day off.
You know, it's not like westopped fighting on the weekend.
(33:06):
Um, I've done this deployment ona two aircraft carriers, the
John F.
Kennedy and the Abraham Lincoln.
Um, I've done it with groundforces and I've done it
individually.
Um, and it's, you, you don'tknow how to turn it off when you
get back and it creates a lot ofstress.
(33:27):
Um, both mentally andphysically, and so I noticed my
particular case, I noticed thatwhen I was on deployments, I was
fine mentally and physically,uh, when I had that downtime and
I wasn't on a deployment, that'swhen I start missing the team
(33:48):
that I was with.
Um, I'm, I'm edgy.
I'm agitated, uh, shorttempered.
I was never violent.
That was very like, you and Iwouldn't be having this?
conversation because I would, Iwould think of it as like, why
are you, what do you want toknow about me?
What are you trying to get?
Right.
There's some sort of otherangle, um, that somebody is
(34:10):
trying to do to me.
And it was ruining, it wasruining my family.
It was ruining my personalrelationships with neighbors and
friends.
Um, and I was on the Navy staff.
And the four star of the Navythat at that time was Admiral
Richardson, and he created atask force called Task Force
(34:31):
Resilient.
And I got to go to that, um, as,as one of the subject matter
experts to figure out how can wedo this better than the Navy?
How can we get people back fromcombat, back from, um, stressful
deployments, um, and to havethem integrate better and be
more efficient and more lethalwhen they come back.
(34:55):
And, um, So I was on that taskforce.
My job was to interview, um,agencies around the globe, law
enforcement agencies.
And the one thing I found outwas that there is a lot of, uh,
psychological and mental healthprofessional staffers, um, on a
lot of these agencies like NYPD,um, LAPD, Miami Dade, um,
(35:18):
Washington Metro.
There's a staff.
So when an officer is involvedin a shooting, they get their
gun, they take their badge, theygo on this.
small hiatus, if you will, andthey, they talk to mental health
professionals because that'stragic.
Um, the trauma that you, you seeand you hear at Harbor really
eats you up.
(35:38):
And, and that's what happened tome.
Um, while I was on that taskforce, I also was a patient at
Walter Reed, um, Army MedicalCenter in Bethesda.
And I was in a group of 25 guys,Half the guys knew who I was
from deployments, my time in theNavy.
Um, so we were personal friends,but I didn't tell anybody I was
(35:59):
in it.
And the Admiral that was runningthe show at the time, Admiral
Donagan, great man.
Um, he said, don't tell anybody.
Just keep going.
And at the end, we're going tooutbrief everyone's project and
you go last.
So I was the last guy to briefmy project.
And I heard all the stereotypes,right?
Like, Oh, I've never had thisperson fly a jet.
(36:22):
This person could never go incombat.
This person can't go on a ship.
Um, so I, I had, I was goingthrough treatment and I was also
hearing a lot of the stereotypesand the stigmas.
And when I finally said, Hey,I'm actually in the program now
at Walter Reed, and I guaranteethat the tools they've taught me
(36:44):
make me more lethal, more selfaware, um, and, and more
competent.
I, I, I'm not held captive tothose traumatic issues anymore.
I know how to deal with them.
Um, and I started.
openly talking about it becausethat's what I needed.
(37:04):
I just needed somebody that wasa senior officer in the military
that said it's, this is okay andyou're not going to lose your
career over it.
Uh, you're not going to loseyour security clearance.
Uh, if you, you know, your topsecret clearance, you're not
going to lose your time flying ajet.
Um, and, and people We'restunned.
(37:26):
So I flew out to Columbus AirForce Base in Mississippi in
September.
Um, and that's where all the newAir Force pilots go to train on
their specific platforms.
I briefed over 500 brand newpilots.
Uh, brought in the mental healthdoctor from that.
from that hospital.
And I told them my story.
Uh, I got to go into detail withthem cause I had all day.
(37:49):
Um, and it was remarkable.
I have people that call meconstantly texting me saying,
Hey, J Dub, I went to mentalhealth.
It's been great.
Hey, J Dub.
Um, I want to go to mentalhealth, but I'm scared of this
or that.
They call me, my phone rings 24hours a day and I will pick it
up.
Uh, and I'll, I'll talk topeople.
(38:10):
I just had a meeting two weeksago with a guy here, um, and I
walked, had lunch with him andthen walked to mental health
with him just to get him in thedoor and that was, right?
And, and I get these texts I canshow you later.
Um, it's like, you changed mylife.
Like, thank you so much.
That, and that's, That's whathappened to me.
Uh, the Navy provided that tome, so I want to give that back
(38:34):
to everyone else that comes myway and says, you know, hey, I
want to listen to what you haveto say, Jada.
Um, I was scheduled to go toFlorida State University, my
alma mater, uh, this month, uh,but unfortunately, For the
presidential transition again,we're going to be very busy
(38:56):
giving information to theincoming administration.
So this month is going to behorrible for me.
But next month, I'm trying toget out there for one of their
career.
Their career discussion days,um, about government service,
uh, federal employment, thingslike that.
Um, where I can also, where Ialso share my story of mental
(39:19):
health.
I, but I
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_ (39:22):
Wow.
Well, yeah.
Thank you so much for what youdo and also for sharing that
story.
I think it's really importantfor people to hear, um,
Something like you who had likeidentified, addressed and
overcame, you know, mentalhealth challenges, which were
more than understandable givenwhat you had gone through and,
(39:42):
and that you are successful andthat you are at the top of your
field and that you work withSEAL teams and you support
generals who support thePresident of the United States.
Like, like, it doesn't mean youcannot be successful if you have
something you're dealing with inyour mental health.
So I think it's, I thank youvery much for sharing that.
I think it's really importantfor people to hear.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2 (40:03):
And, and that goes into the corporate
environment as well, right?
Um, there's a lot of stressfulsituations when it comes to, you
know, product development.
Or quarterly earnings statementsand things like that.
Like that's a lot of pressure ona CEO.
That's a lot of pressure on achief of staff for a situation
like that.
Um, It's, it's no different,right?
(40:23):
Those are, those are juststressful situations that your,
that your brain goes into andyour body reacts to that and it
gets addicted to that, um, thatchemical that releases in your
brain when you're, when you'rein a stressful situation.
Um, but if you remain calm andyou get help and you figure out
how to recognize it when ithappens, uh, how to deal with
(40:46):
it.
You know, there's, there's nostopping you And you help other
people do it.
And, you know, it just, it justkeeps going And going and going,
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_1 (40:58):
And when I talk about this with
people, I always try to equateit to, um, we talk about our
physical fitness a lot,especially in the U S we're kind
of obsessed with like physicalfitness and what's your training
program.
And you're going for runs andworkouts and eating and diets
and all these things for ourphysical health, which is
fantastic and great.
Uh, but people just kind of.
either ignore the mental healthor they put that in like an
(41:20):
entirely different kind oftabooed stigma category, which I
just find interesting.
It's like, it's the same, you'retaking care of your health and
that includes your mental healthand what's happening
emotionally.
And so I, like, I want people tosay, you know, I was talking to
my therapist or I was talking tomy counselor.
I went to a mental health group,whatever, just the same as like,
I went to the gym, you know, I'mtrying this new kind of eating
(41:42):
program type of thing.
Because to me, it's like,you're, you're just taking care
of yourself.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (41:47):
And that's, that's part of who I am
as a chief of staff here.
Um, that's who I am as a leaderacross the board.
Um, and it's, it's somethingthat I, like, As you said, I
will tell people that I told mycommand as the new chief of
(42:07):
staff, if I give you time to goto the gym because the military
gives you an hour, three days aweek to go to the gym on company
time.
So if I give you time to dothat, I give you time to go to
church on Sundays, whatever yourreligion may be.
Um, I give you time off to go toyour daughter's piano recital or
dance recital.
(42:28):
Why would I not give you time togo to mental health?
I mean, it's.
Right.
It's a workout for your brain.
I love that field.
I love that community.
Um, it's, it's given me my lifeback.
Um, help me figure out my, mypurpose in life.
My drive is, is, is much more,uh, intense for, for life and,
(42:49):
and experiences and, and takingon hard challenges and, and
trying to succeed in those.
Um, which is why I bought yourbook.
Um, if If I had a, it's, I, Icall it my chief of staff Bible
and, and it's, it's got red andgreen.
I color coded the tabs on allthese little things that were in
(43:09):
their book about, you know, how,how to communicate with someone
who might be, uh, cause I workwith a guy that applied for my
job, but didn't get it.
So there was some attentionthere, right?
So I, I just went up to him andsaid, Hey, you know, I'm, I
heard you interviewed for thejob.
You know, um, That's a big stepfor you, you know, and it, and
(43:35):
it says a lot more about you asa, as a, as a professional that
you're staying here, eventhough, you know, you didn't get
that promotion, um, and you'restill churning and I'm looking
for you to be more involved.
Um, more integrated, take up abigger role in the company
because that was your goal.
(43:57):
And if that's still your goal inthe future, I want to help you
get there, whether I'm in thatseat or not.
So, and that helped a lot.
Our relationship changed on adime and we, my staff texts me
all the time.
I have two cell phones, which Ithink is kind of absurd, but,
um, they're good.
They go off the hook and myleadership team has 24 hour
(44:18):
access to me at any time.
Um, But your book was amazingand I'm glad because it gave me
this opportunity to finally meetyou and get on your podcast and,
um, and share the, the successstories that I got from your
book.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025 (44:35):
Well, I'm, I'm humbled and honored
that I could offer a small pieceof helpful information to you.
So, um, uh, absolutely,absolutely privileged that you,
that you read the book.
Um, if someone is listening andthey were hearing the part about
mental health and they, um,wanna reach out to some, someone
to engage with someone on thatfor themselves or someone they
(44:56):
know, do you have any goodresources for where people
should go for that?
squadcaster-77je_2_01-0 (45:00):
there's a, there's a 1 800 number, uh,
nationally, but what I dealwith, cause I'm in a lot of
military communities, um,there's, uh, the Military
OneSource is a resource.
Uh, the Navy, the Navy AidSociety, there is, uh, the
(45:21):
Soldiers and Sailors Relief, um,Society.
They're all phone numbers in, inthe military community that you
can, um, have access to, uh,chaplains, doctors, commanders.
We have it.
It's, it's almost a DODregulation.
You have stuff like that on a,on a bulletin board for the
(45:41):
entire command to see.
And, and I'll share because I'mvery proud of my kids, my, I
have a 20 year old now and a 14year old now, and they both go
to mental health every Tuesday.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_10 (45:56):
Oh
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (45:57):
and they're, they're some of the
most resilient young ladies I'veever seen.
And, you know, their mom and Iwant them to be that way.
Um, and why not go to mentalhealth?
Cause they lived.
Seeing dad struggle, they re,you know, they, they saw me
going to mental health andgetting better and having a
(46:17):
complete 180 change of my life.
And, um, they just called, uh,it's the family care center here
in Colorado Springs.
They are amazing.
Um, they just call them, got anappointment and they go.
Sometimes it's onteleconference, sometimes it's
in person, but they spend anhour and it's inexpensive.
(46:39):
And it's 35.
You know, a session to go.
So I, if somebody is in thissituation, they're not in
military community.
I would just say, go to a mentalhealth clinic and, and pay for
the session.
It it'll, it'll change yourlife.
Absolutely.
emily-sander_2_01-02-2025 (46:59):
Yeah.
Make it part of your regularroutine.
I'm so that's so that's so I'm,it's funny, but it's, I'm very
happy that your daughters are,are doing that.
And I also think it's importantto highlight some of the things
you said.
It made you better.
So I think people at the bottomwhen they're just, you know,
kind of crushed in on themselvesand everything's dark and this
is horrible, I can't get out ofthis.
It can get better.
(47:19):
And some of the things you'vesaid is.
It made me more lethal.
It made me sharper.
It made me better.
It made me stronger.
and so it's not a sign ofweakness.
It's you're actually makingyourself, uh, a more kind of
optimized human.
So I think that's, uh, importantto say, say as well, but JW,
you've been so generous withyour time and the information
(47:40):
you shared, just giveneverything we've spoken about,
is there anything else you wantpeople to know about?
What you and your command aredoing, anything about mentorship
or anything else on mentalhealth that you want to make
sure to get across.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-20 (47:51):
Uh, so for the first one, um, JIFIC
IMD and U.
S.
Space Command, uh, they're ingreat hands.
They're there with some, some ofthe most brilliant four star
generals I've ever met.
Um, So the nation is very securethere.
(48:12):
Um, it's a great place to work.
They're always hiring.
Um, if you're interested ingovernment service in that
capacity, I would encourageeverybody to go to USAJOBS and
look for U.
S.
Space Command.
Um, there are a ton of greatopportunities to get involved.
Uh, when it comes to mentalhealth, You know, think of it as
(48:35):
going to the gym, like I saidbefore, um, it's going to the
gym through your brain.
And it could be, you don't haveto go there because you have an
issue.
You can go there just to makesure that whatever you're
feeling, whatever you'reexperiencing, however you're
processing your environment,whether it's normal or not, in
most cases, it's a normalreaction that your body's going
(48:58):
through.
And um, and, and, you know, thattakes a lot of pressure off, um,
off of you as an individual,because now you're up.
saying to yourself, man, I'mkind of crazy or I messed up.
It's like, no, this is, this isnormal re behavior.
This is a normal reaction tostimulus in my environment.
And now I know how to preparefor it and how to deal with it.
(49:20):
Just like we prepare for, youknow, riding our bike and
getting in a, in an accident,you know, you're going to wear a
helmet because you know, you'regoing to get hit in the head.
It's the same thing.
Um, and then for mentorship,That is both up and down the
chain of command.
Uh, don't, I would encouragepeople not to wait.
(49:41):
I didn't wait for the general totell me what to do.
I went in and did it and toldhim what I did and, and ask for
guidance since, you know, it's,sir, this is what I did.
You saw the email.
Um, it's, this is my intent.
This is what I'm doing.
This is what I've done.
If you have any feedback or wantme to change anything, let me
know.
(50:01):
And it's, I, every time I emailit, it's, uh, Keep going, uh,
move out and draw fire as anarmy officer says, right?
So, and I do that and Iencourage people to do that, um,
whatever capacity they're in,um, mentor up the chain.
And I like to think that Imentored general Ganey at times.
(50:23):
Um, I wrote an op ed for himjust, uh, new year's Eve, uh,
that he really I think is goingto help him when he testifies in
front of Congress, uh, in thecoming year and, uh, just mentor
down as well and don't forget,you know, your left and right
that appear could be extremelyknowledgeable, have that
(50:47):
experience.
You just don't know until youask.
Um, don't be shy or bashful.
Just be, you want to makeyourself better and you want to
make your command better, yourcompany better, your staff
better, um, going forward.
It just makes you moreproductive.
It makes you more, uh,efficient.
It makes you more effective.
(51:08):
It makes you more lethal.
It makes you more, um,profitable.
emily-sander_2_01-02-202 (51:13):
That's a great note to end on.
And J Dub, thank you once againfor being on and sharing all
that you have.
And thank you for everythingthat you do.
squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2 (51:20):
yes, ma'am, I really appreciate the
time and the opportunity.
And I look forward to chattingwith you again.
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