July 23, 2025 • 10 mins
Cutting your Chief of Staff during a downturn is a big mistake—they act as a utility player who can fill gaps in HR, operations, sales, and more. Chiefs of Staff keep morale up after layoffs, help maintain strong communication, support the CEO’s decision-making, and are key to rebuilding when things improve. Emily compares them to the knight in chess: flexible, able to jump over obstacles, and unblock problems where others can’t.
Links Mentioned:
Free Resources:
- Strategic Planning Checklist
- Chief of Staff Skills Assessment Checklist
- A Day in the Life of a Chief of Staff
- Chief of Staff Toolkit
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Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.
Time Stamps:
00:48 Reason 1: The Utility Infielder
01:45 Reason 2: The Culture Keeper
04:16 Reason 3: Keeping the Principal Sane
06:00 Reason 4: The Comeback Catalyst
07:52 Summary of Key Points
08:27 The Chess Knight Analogy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
emily-sander_1_07-08-2025_1 (00:25):
Let me tell you why.
The worst mistake you can makein a layoff or a downturn is
cutting your chief of staff.
Chiefs of staff are notoverhead.
They're leverage.
Think of them as your utilityinfielders or your shock
absorbers, or the glue thatholds things together, or the
person who gives you a sanitycheck when you need it most.
(00:45):
So here are some reasons why youneed to keep your chief of
staff.
Reason number one, they are thatutility infielder.
Chiefs of staff aren't fixed toone functional area.
They can drop into gaps whereveris most needed for you.
So if you're like, Emily, wecan't hire multiple heads to run
these departments anymore.
The chief of staff is perfectlysuited to just hold HR together
(01:08):
for the next little bit.
You know what we have to haveour operations run.
Our delivery teams need to havea leader, a chief of staff can
step into that role.
Same with sales operations, withmarketing, with compliance, with
product, all these differentthings.
A chief of staff has a workingknowledge already of all of
those functional groups.
And knows how they tie togetherto the overall business.
(01:29):
And so they're well suited tostep into those roles.
They're flexible.
They're versatile.
They're adaptable.
And you can, I just kind of feellike moving a chess piece on a
board.
You can move them where you needthem to be.
And a chief of staff is autility infielder in that sense.
Reason number two, chiefs ofstaff are culture keepers in
(01:50):
these scenarios.
So chiefs of staff are designersof culture.
In certain situations, we'relike, Hey, we're
professionalizing the org, we'regrowing.
Let's help design and beintentional about the culture.
They certainly help espouse theculture in their day to day and
how they interact with people.
In these scenarios, if you'vehad a riff, if you've had a
layoff and the people left arelooking around going, okay, like
(02:15):
the four people I used to sitnext to and work with are just
gone.
That's a gut punch.
That's a blow to morale.
And so having someone who hasbeen involved with the culture,
who is attuned to that, whoknows what needs to be done
production wise, but also takescare of the people, takes care
of the staff, and can talk topeople on a human level, I.
(02:36):
Is a huge advantage to have inyour organization.
The last thing you wanna do isget rid of that and or get rid
of communication channels,right?
So if, okay, things are flyingaround, we're doing layoffs,
we're doing riffs, which means.
Something has not gone to plan.
So there's changes happening.
People are freaked out becauselike, so and so next to me
(02:58):
doesn't have a job anymore, andI'm looking at their empty chair
or whatever.
Having someone say, here's thelatest information.
Here's what we're looking at,here's how we're making
decisions.
We actually need to hear fromyou what you're hearing from
customers, and integrate thatinto our decision making
process.
Someone to coordinate andconnect.
All of that is critical, isimperative.
You don't wanna get rid of thatat this juncture.
(03:21):
I think also.
Chiefs of staff are eitherspearheading or at least
involved in the rhythm ofbusiness.
So in the leadership meetingsand in the all hands meetings,
and maybe they have somedifferent, conversations with
specific teams or perhapsspecific individuals at the
C-suite level, the VP leveldirector, manager, rank and file
(03:42):
level.
Those can continue and maybeeven accelerate during these
times to make sure thecommunications channels are
flowing.
The last thing you want ispeople to be.
Freaked out'cause of layoffs andleft in the dark and left
wondering what's gonna happen tome?
Are they doing more, what'scoming up?
Embracing themselves.
So keeping that culture intactas best as possible, chief of
(04:04):
staff is that culture keeper.
Reason number three, a chief ofstaff helps keep the principal
sane.
And I've said this in previouspodcasts, but I'll say it again.
Keeping the CEO sane and onpoint and not losing their gosh
darn mind and not losing theirmarbles is a win for everybody.
Right?
If a chief of staff goes insane,it's good for zero people.
(04:26):
It's not good for the principalthemselves, the CEO themselves.
It's not good for the chief ofstaff.
It's not good for the leadershipteam, for the expanded team and
staff in the company.
It's not good for their family,et cetera, et cetera.
So the last person you wanna getrid of is the person who is
trusted.
You're consigliere the personwho can be adaptable with you.
We're going through someunexpected changes.
(04:48):
We gotta stay on point here.
We have some decisions coming upthat are people's livelihoods
and potentially theeffectiveness and the existence
of the company.
In some cases, we have some bigdecisions to make.
I gotta make sure I'm makinghigh quality decisions as the
CEO.
I need people around me who canpush me, who can challenge me,
who can see things from adifferent perspective, who can
(05:11):
help me brainstorm who I trust,knows what's going on, and also
wants, what's best for thecompany and want what's best for
the team, and is gonna tell mestuff straight to my face and is
gonna tell me the truth.
So the last person you wanna getrid of are, are those types of
people.
And chief of staff should be inthat position already.
So you wanna have that thoughtpartner, you wanna have that
person who keeps it real.
(05:31):
but also can be encouraging andpick you up in times where if,
if you're doing a layoff andyou're a CEO, that's a tough
spot for you to be in too.
That's, that's rough as well formaking those decisions.
So.
Keeping the chief of staff tokeep your sanity is a, is a good
call.
Two thumbs up.
The fourth reason I would say isa chief of staff is the comeback
(05:54):
catalyst.
If you've done a riff or alayoff round or had a downsize,
or hopefully you will be able tobring some of those folks back.
Hopefully you'll have an upturnand eventually we wanna start
bringing people back and wewanna start rebuilding the
teams.
You have a chief of staff who iswho?
That's their job, right?
(06:15):
Chief of staff.
They help design orgs, they helpdesign org charts.
They help figure out how do theteams have to be situated to
operate the best together and asa group for the overall
objective of the company.
So.
If and when you bring folksback, you wanna have someone who
is adept and highly skilled atthat, at that function, at that
(06:37):
intangible function of here'show we put this thing back
together and here's the sequencewe do it in, and here's the
comms we have about thisinternally and externally, all
that stuff.
They can even be trainingsomeone up.
So let's say they did aninterim.
HR role?
Well, if you're in a position tobring back some HR staff, maybe
it's the existing staff or theold staff that was there before,
(07:00):
maybe those people have foundother roles.
So you have to bring on someonenew.
In either case, the chief ofstaff is perfectly suited to
literally help train and onboardand ramp those folks up'cause
they've been doing that rolethemselves.
Or they at least have thatworking knowledge and they know
how.
That role ties to the overallpicture, how that role ties to
(07:21):
the long-term goals of thecompany.
So they can build this thingback up with you and or for you
if you're like, you go take careof this chief of staff, I got
other stuff to deal with, youcan give them the keys to the
kingdom, drop it off, and knowthat it's gonna be taken care
of.
Well by someone who knows allthe players, knows the
processes, and knows what youwant out of the org structure.
(07:42):
Okay, so those were the fourreasons.
The chief of staff is a utilityinfielder.
They can flex in and out ofdifferent things.
They are the culture keeper.
So you wanna keep morale up asbest as possible, especially in
these times.
They keep you sane, they keepthe principal sane.
So that is a win for everybodyand they are the comeback
catalyst for when you rebuildyour team and rebuild your
(08:02):
staff.
You can do that efficiently, youcan do that quickly, but also
effectively.
So those are some reasons whyyou should not get rid of your
chief of staff in a downturn, ina layoff situation.
It's almost the last person youwanna get rid of.
oh, and one other thing I'll sayhere is one of the reasons that
I chose the chess piece of aknight to be on the cover of my
(08:24):
book about the chief of staffrole is because the Knight,
which is the little horse piece,is the only piece that can jump
over other pieces.
It moves differently.
It has a unique, skill set ormove set or whatever you want to
call that.
But this one is the only onethat can jump over other pieces
and they can unblock things Theyjust go where other pieces
(08:45):
can't.
And so I think in the same wayas I was talking through this,
that's the sentiment and that'sone of the reasons why I chose
the Knight to be on the frontof, of my book cover.
So all of that to say if you'rein a rough spot right now and
you're having to make some toughdecisions, I would pause before
you cut your chief of staff.
(09:05):
Don't think of your chief ofstaff as extra in quotes.
Think of them as your leveragepoint.
The leverage point you need, orthe multiplier that you can
deploy across your org to makeit run better, especially in
times of pressure.
I.
So I would keep some of thesethings in mind and if you need
help brainstorming any of thisor soundboarding any of this,
feel free to reach out, drop anote in the comments, reach out
(09:27):
to me on LinkedIn.
You could email me directly atEmily at Next level Coach here
to help.
I know some of these scenariosare not where you want it to be,
but you, it is where you are andso you might have to be facing
some of these decisions and tryto make the best ones you can
with all the information youhave at the time.
Hopefully, this has been helpfuland I will catch you next week
on leveraging leadership.
Let me tell you why.
The worst mistake you can makein a layoff or a downturn is
cutting your chief of staff.
Chiefs of staff are notoverhead.
They're leverage.
Think of them as your utilityinfielders or your shock
absorbers, or the glue thatholds things together, or the
person who gives you a sanitycheck when you need it most.
(00:45):
So here are some reasons why youneed to keep your chief of
staff.
Reason number one, they are thatutility infielder.
Chiefs of staff aren't fixed toone functional area.
They can drop into gaps whereveris most needed for you.
So if you're like, Emily, wecan't hire multiple heads to run
these departments anymore.
The chief of staff is perfectlysuited to just hold HR together
(01:08):
for the next little bit.
You know what we have to haveour operations run.
Our delivery teams need to havea leader, a chief of staff can
step into that role.
Same with sales operations, withmarketing, with compliance, with
product, all these differentthings.
A chief of staff has a workingknowledge already of all of
those functional groups.
And knows how they tie togetherto the overall business.
(01:29):
And so they're well suited tostep into those roles.
They're flexible.
They're versatile.
They're adaptable.
And you can, I just kind of feellike moving a chess piece on a
board.
You can move them where you needthem to be.
And a chief of staff is autility infielder in that sense.
Reason number two, chiefs ofstaff are culture keepers in
(01:50):
these scenarios.
So chiefs of staff are designersof culture.
In certain situations, we'relike, Hey, we're
professionalizing the org, we'regrowing.
Let's help design and beintentional about the culture.
They certainly help espouse theculture in their day to day and
how they interact with people.
In these scenarios, if you'vehad a riff, if you've had a
layoff and the people left arelooking around going, okay, like
(02:15):
the four people I used to sitnext to and work with are just
gone.
That's a gut punch.
That's a blow to morale.
And so having someone who hasbeen involved with the culture,
who is attuned to that, whoknows what needs to be done
production wise, but also takescare of the people, takes care
of the staff, and can talk topeople on a human level, I.
(02:36):
Is a huge advantage to have inyour organization.
The last thing you wanna do isget rid of that and or get rid
of communication channels,right?
So if, okay, things are flyingaround, we're doing layoffs,
we're doing riffs, which means.
Something has not gone to plan.
So there's changes happening.
People are freaked out becauselike, so and so next to me
(02:58):
doesn't have a job anymore, andI'm looking at their empty chair
or whatever.
Having someone say, here's thelatest information.
Here's what we're looking at,here's how we're making
decisions.
We actually need to hear fromyou what you're hearing from
customers, and integrate thatinto our decision making
process.
Someone to coordinate andconnect.
All of that is critical, isimperative.
You don't wanna get rid of thatat this juncture.
(03:21):
I think also.
Chiefs of staff are eitherspearheading or at least
involved in the rhythm ofbusiness.
So in the leadership meetingsand in the all hands meetings,
and maybe they have somedifferent, conversations with
specific teams or perhapsspecific individuals at the
C-suite level, the VP leveldirector, manager, rank and file
(03:42):
level.
Those can continue and maybeeven accelerate during these
times to make sure thecommunications channels are
flowing.
The last thing you want ispeople to be.
Freaked out'cause of layoffs andleft in the dark and left
wondering what's gonna happen tome?
Are they doing more, what'scoming up?
Embracing themselves.
So keeping that culture intactas best as possible, chief of
(04:04):
staff is that culture keeper.
Reason number three, a chief ofstaff helps keep the principal
sane.
And I've said this in previouspodcasts, but I'll say it again.
Keeping the CEO sane and onpoint and not losing their gosh
darn mind and not losing theirmarbles is a win for everybody.
Right?
If a chief of staff goes insane,it's good for zero people.
(04:26):
It's not good for the principalthemselves, the CEO themselves.
It's not good for the chief ofstaff.
It's not good for the leadershipteam, for the expanded team and
staff in the company.
It's not good for their family,et cetera, et cetera.
So the last person you wanna getrid of is the person who is
trusted.
You're consigliere the personwho can be adaptable with you.
We're going through someunexpected changes.
(04:48):
We gotta stay on point here.
We have some decisions coming upthat are people's livelihoods
and potentially theeffectiveness and the existence
of the company.
In some cases, we have some bigdecisions to make.
I gotta make sure I'm makinghigh quality decisions as the
CEO.
I need people around me who canpush me, who can challenge me,
who can see things from adifferent perspective, who can
(05:11):
help me brainstorm who I trust,knows what's going on, and also
wants, what's best for thecompany and want what's best for
the team, and is gonna tell mestuff straight to my face and is
gonna tell me the truth.
So the last person you wanna getrid of are, are those types of
people.
And chief of staff should be inthat position already.
So you wanna have that thoughtpartner, you wanna have that
person who keeps it real.
(05:31):
but also can be encouraging andpick you up in times where if,
if you're doing a layoff andyou're a CEO, that's a tough
spot for you to be in too.
That's, that's rough as well formaking those decisions.
So.
Keeping the chief of staff tokeep your sanity is a, is a good
call.
Two thumbs up.
The fourth reason I would say isa chief of staff is the comeback
(05:54):
catalyst.
If you've done a riff or alayoff round or had a downsize,
or hopefully you will be able tobring some of those folks back.
Hopefully you'll have an upturnand eventually we wanna start
bringing people back and wewanna start rebuilding the
teams.
You have a chief of staff who iswho?
That's their job, right?
(06:15):
Chief of staff.
They help design orgs, they helpdesign org charts.
They help figure out how do theteams have to be situated to
operate the best together and asa group for the overall
objective of the company.
So.
If and when you bring folksback, you wanna have someone who
is adept and highly skilled atthat, at that function, at that
(06:37):
intangible function of here'show we put this thing back
together and here's the sequencewe do it in, and here's the
comms we have about thisinternally and externally, all
that stuff.
They can even be trainingsomeone up.
So let's say they did aninterim.
HR role?
Well, if you're in a position tobring back some HR staff, maybe
it's the existing staff or theold staff that was there before,
(07:00):
maybe those people have foundother roles.
So you have to bring on someonenew.
In either case, the chief ofstaff is perfectly suited to
literally help train and onboardand ramp those folks up'cause
they've been doing that rolethemselves.
Or they at least have thatworking knowledge and they know
how.
That role ties to the overallpicture, how that role ties to
(07:21):
the long-term goals of thecompany.
So they can build this thingback up with you and or for you
if you're like, you go take careof this chief of staff, I got
other stuff to deal with, youcan give them the keys to the
kingdom, drop it off, and knowthat it's gonna be taken care
of.
Well by someone who knows allthe players, knows the
processes, and knows what youwant out of the org structure.
(07:42):
Okay, so those were the fourreasons.
The chief of staff is a utilityinfielder.
They can flex in and out ofdifferent things.
They are the culture keeper.
So you wanna keep morale up asbest as possible, especially in
these times.
They keep you sane, they keepthe principal sane.
So that is a win for everybodyand they are the comeback
catalyst for when you rebuildyour team and rebuild your
(08:02):
staff.
You can do that efficiently, youcan do that quickly, but also
effectively.
So those are some reasons whyyou should not get rid of your
chief of staff in a downturn, ina layoff situation.
It's almost the last person youwanna get rid of.
oh, and one other thing I'll sayhere is one of the reasons that
I chose the chess piece of aknight to be on the cover of my
(08:24):
book about the chief of staffrole is because the Knight,
which is the little horse piece,is the only piece that can jump
over other pieces.
It moves differently.
It has a unique, skill set ormove set or whatever you want to
call that.
But this one is the only onethat can jump over other pieces
and they can unblock things Theyjust go where other pieces
(08:45):
can't.
And so I think in the same wayas I was talking through this,
that's the sentiment and that'sone of the reasons why I chose
the Knight to be on the frontof, of my book cover.
So all of that to say if you'rein a rough spot right now and
you're having to make some toughdecisions, I would pause before
you cut your chief of staff.
(09:05):
Don't think of your chief ofstaff as extra in quotes.
Think of them as your leveragepoint.
The leverage point you need, orthe multiplier that you can
deploy across your org to makeit run better, especially in
times of pressure.
I.
So I would keep some of thesethings in mind and if you need
help brainstorming any of thisor soundboarding any of this,
feel free to reach out, drop anote in the comments, reach out
(09:27):
to me on LinkedIn.
You could email me directly atEmily at Next level Coach here
to help.
I know some of these scenariosare not where you want it to be,
but you, it is where you are andso you might have to be facing
some of these decisions and tryto make the best ones you can
with all the information youhave at the time.
Hopefully, this has been helpfuland I will catch you next week
on leveraging leadership.
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