September 3, 2025 • 9 mins
Emily answers a listener question from Tamsen in Minneapolis, who’s been asked to build a mini PMO function. She talks through concerns about returning to project management work, possible worries about people management, and how to clarify the scope with the CEO and COO. Emily suggests separating past experiences from the new opportunity and making sure the Chief of Staff role remains broad and strategic.
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Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
emily-sander_1_07-08-2025_1 (00:25):
All right.
We have a listener question fromTamson V in Minneapolis.
Tamson says, hi, Emily.
Love the show.
I'm in a bit of a weird spot.
My CEO and COO recently came tome with a project they'd like me
to take on, and they were veryclear.
It's my choice.
No pressure.
They think I'd be great at it,and I get why It plays to a lot
of my strengths.
(00:46):
The idea is to build out a sortof mini PMO function to help us
get more rigor acrossinitiatives.
It would mean bringing on acouple of new people and
probably owning the structureand rhythm for how projects flow
through the org.
But I'm hesitating and I'm nottotally sure why.
It's work I've done before and Iknow what it takes to do it
well, but something about itjust feels heavy, I guess.
(01:09):
I'm trying to figure out if thisis an opportunity.
If I'm walking back intosomething I've already outgrown,
would love your take.
All right, Tamson, thank you somuch for the question.
I have loads of questions in myhead back to you, what about
this makes it feel heavy to you,or there Seems like there's
something going on beneath thesurface here.
Maybe a.
(01:29):
Previous experience orconnotation you have to
something.
And the reason I say that isbecause I'm reading between the
lines on some of this.
I'm walking back into somethingI've already outgrown is an
interesting sentiment as is Theythink I'd be a great fit and I
get why it plays to a lot of mystrengths.
And then you're also bringing onsome new people, so I'm gonna
(01:51):
make some guesses here.
Hopefully those are relevantguesses for you.
My guess is you've had someprevious functional experience
I.
With project management or withPMOs, and maybe that was like
your functional expertise andmaybe you took the chief of
staff role to try to get out ofthat, to try to broaden your s
scope or be more strategic aboutthings, get a broader scope of
(02:11):
the business and lift yourselfinto a, a strategic leader.
And so this might feel like abackslide into like, Hey, like
we're going into PMO territoryand I don't like that.
So the first thing I would saythere is, this is not that.
This new opportunity is not tiedto your previous experience.
(02:32):
What do I mean by that?
Clearly, like it is in like a,in like a practical external
way.
they might be leaning on you forlike, Hey, like you probably
know how to do this.
Well, it plays to your strengths'cause you've done this
functionally.
But what project management orbeing part of a PMO.
Meant for you before, doesn'tneed to carry into this future
(02:52):
opportunity.
So separate those two things inyour mind.
A lot of times chiefs of staffgo, oh, I don't wanna be
pigeonholed into this thing, andI totally get what they're
talking about.
And in some cases you do have toguard against that.
But this actually sounds likeit's pretty open-ended, meaning.
The CEO and COO are coming toyou about this project, and the
(03:13):
idea about it is sort ofbuilding out a mini PMO function
that doesn't sound totally.
Concrete.
It doesn't sound like, okay,here's exactly what we want.
Here's how it has to be.
They're not coming to you withthat.
It sounds like they kind of havethis idea, it might add some
more rigor to the business, andthey're leaning on you as their
chief of staff who has the addedbenefit of being involved with
(03:37):
the PMO previously, and youmight be able to help craft
that.
You might be able to help designthat, so it's like, Ugh.
I have some reservations aboutwhat that meant in the past.
Let me number one, separate thatin my head.
the past experience doesn't haveto dictate what that means for
me going forward.
So number one, number two is,hey, I'm now in a position where
(03:58):
I can probably help design thisthing and craft this thing and
make it so it's this, not that.
Make it so it helps with thebusiness objective.
It helps align what the CEO andCOO want, and it's something
that would work well for me.
So I think there's a lot of roomin there for that, from what it
sounds like.
The other thing here I caughtonto is this would mean bringing
(04:22):
on a couple of new people.
I.
Many chiefs of staff I speak togo into the chief of staff role.
'cause they don't want anydirect reports.
They're like people management.
Not for me, love people.
I could handle a few highperforming ics, but I don't want
to do like the people managementthing.
So this is a guess.
You could love people, you couldwant a team.
This could be a greatopportunity in that sense for
(04:43):
you, but just kind of callingthat out in case it's something
of a concern for you.
And I would say that.
Managing people is.
There's a lot of range inmanaging people.
Are you managing, an intern,it's their first job ever and
they're like bright eye andbushy tails.
They dunno what anything meansat all.
Or are you managing a seniorleader and a senior executive,
(05:07):
or even a very seasoned IC who'slike, plug and play.
I've done this before.
I can do it in my sleep.
I've been to the rodeo before.
I know what it's all about and Ican just do this for you.
Very hands off, veryself-sufficient, all those
things.
So.
Just kind of a, a word ofconsideration there that if
there is kind of a reluctance orhesitation around bringing on a
(05:28):
couple new people, depending onwho those people are, that could
be a very involved thing.
That could be a very hands offthing.
and again, you might be able tocraft that into what you want.
I.
If I'm going along with theguesses that I've had, in this
example, if you are building amini PMO function and you have
been in the PMO world before,maybe you have some contacts
(05:50):
where it's like, Hey, if youwant a mini PMO function, I know
this person, this person, thisperson.
They're excellent.
They're exactly what we need,and I know them.
I can work well with them and Ican build my team, in my own
mold in that sense.
So you could have options likethat at your fingertips.
Okay.
What else would love your takeon this?
(06:11):
Is it an opportunity or am Iwalking back into something I've
already outgrown?
From the outside looking in, Idon't see it as like, oh my
gosh, clearly you're walkingback into something that you've
outgrown.
I think again, you can craft itand maybe just have some
conversations around, hey, uh,like depending on your
relationship with the CEO andCOO, it could be like, Hey, I
know I come from a PMObackground.
(06:32):
I just wanna make sure that I'mstill gonna be involved in all
these other things.
Or even do a presumptive closearound that where, you know, as
we're building out this mini PMOteam, here's how I see this
integrating with the other.
Departments, or here's how I seethis integrating across
departments or in our long-termstrategy, all these things that
are just presumptively, you'restill doing all of the
(06:53):
overarching chief of staff rolesand responsibilities.
So I think if there's a concern,figure out how much of that is a
you thing versus how much ofthat is like, no, this actually
a good thing to talk aboutupfront and just kind of lace it
into the conversation.
Or, I don't know if this hasbeen like a, A thing between you
and the CEO or COO before, andyou need to hit it on the head
(07:17):
and make sure, hey, I wanna beclear about the expectations.
You could have that conversationtoo.
Nothing about this screams like,oh my gosh.
stepping back into somethingyou're, you've outgrown again,
I'm making some guesses here.
but I think this is anopportunity.
I think you can craft this howyou want it to be.
I think having a mini PMOfunction rolling up to you is.
(07:39):
Not a bad thing at all.
I think it's a good thing tohave a little oomph under the
chief of staff and have a littlearms and legs and tactical and
practical I can execute thisstrategy.
And it's not just you doing it,you have a mini team.
So I think all of those thingsare positive, Hopefully it gave
you some good food for thought.
Um, again, nothing about this isscreaming like no, like red
(08:00):
alert.
Don't do it.
it sounds like for you someconversations and some thinking
about what does this mean to meand what would I need to, I.
Talk about with my CEO and COOgoing into this decision.
It sounds like there's somethought that needs to be had
there, and you're reaching outto some folks, myself included,
about some considerations andinputs there, and then you can
(08:22):
move forward and come to a gooddecision for yourself and for
your team from there.
So I hope that helps and ifanyone else has a question
they'd like to ask and haveanswered on the air, then feel
free to reach out to me.
I have been told by my team notto say email me directly, which
I normally say.
I say, email me at Emily at nextlevel.
I.
Coach, but they have said tosay, drop it in the comments.
(08:46):
And they kind of told me that ina way where that's what the cool
kids say.
So if that's what I'm supposedto be saying, then if you have a
question for me, please drop itin the comments or Drop me a DM
on LinkedIn, so direct message.
Just message me on LinkedIn,find my profile.
It's in the show notes.
Or you could email me directlyat Emily at Next Level coach,
(09:07):
and I'll catch you next week onLeveraging Leadership.
All right.
We have a listener question fromTamson V in Minneapolis.
Tamson says, hi, Emily.
Love the show.
I'm in a bit of a weird spot.
My CEO and COO recently came tome with a project they'd like me
to take on, and they were veryclear.
It's my choice.
No pressure.
They think I'd be great at it,and I get why It plays to a lot
of my strengths.
(00:46):
The idea is to build out a sortof mini PMO function to help us
get more rigor acrossinitiatives.
It would mean bringing on acouple of new people and
probably owning the structureand rhythm for how projects flow
through the org.
But I'm hesitating and I'm nottotally sure why.
It's work I've done before and Iknow what it takes to do it
well, but something about itjust feels heavy, I guess.
(01:09):
I'm trying to figure out if thisis an opportunity.
If I'm walking back intosomething I've already outgrown,
would love your take.
All right, Tamson, thank you somuch for the question.
I have loads of questions in myhead back to you, what about
this makes it feel heavy to you,or there Seems like there's
something going on beneath thesurface here.
Maybe a.
(01:29):
Previous experience orconnotation you have to
something.
And the reason I say that isbecause I'm reading between the
lines on some of this.
I'm walking back into somethingI've already outgrown is an
interesting sentiment as is Theythink I'd be a great fit and I
get why it plays to a lot of mystrengths.
And then you're also bringing onsome new people, so I'm gonna
(01:51):
make some guesses here.
Hopefully those are relevantguesses for you.
My guess is you've had someprevious functional experience
I.
With project management or withPMOs, and maybe that was like
your functional expertise andmaybe you took the chief of
staff role to try to get out ofthat, to try to broaden your s
scope or be more strategic aboutthings, get a broader scope of
(02:11):
the business and lift yourselfinto a, a strategic leader.
And so this might feel like abackslide into like, Hey, like
we're going into PMO territoryand I don't like that.
So the first thing I would saythere is, this is not that.
This new opportunity is not tiedto your previous experience.
(02:32):
What do I mean by that?
Clearly, like it is in like a,in like a practical external
way.
they might be leaning on you forlike, Hey, like you probably
know how to do this.
Well, it plays to your strengths'cause you've done this
functionally.
But what project management orbeing part of a PMO.
Meant for you before, doesn'tneed to carry into this future
(02:52):
opportunity.
So separate those two things inyour mind.
A lot of times chiefs of staffgo, oh, I don't wanna be
pigeonholed into this thing, andI totally get what they're
talking about.
And in some cases you do have toguard against that.
But this actually sounds likeit's pretty open-ended, meaning.
The CEO and COO are coming toyou about this project, and the
(03:13):
idea about it is sort ofbuilding out a mini PMO function
that doesn't sound totally.
Concrete.
It doesn't sound like, okay,here's exactly what we want.
Here's how it has to be.
They're not coming to you withthat.
It sounds like they kind of havethis idea, it might add some
more rigor to the business, andthey're leaning on you as their
chief of staff who has the addedbenefit of being involved with
(03:37):
the PMO previously, and youmight be able to help craft
that.
You might be able to help designthat, so it's like, Ugh.
I have some reservations aboutwhat that meant in the past.
Let me number one, separate thatin my head.
the past experience doesn't haveto dictate what that means for
me going forward.
So number one, number two is,hey, I'm now in a position where
(03:58):
I can probably help design thisthing and craft this thing and
make it so it's this, not that.
Make it so it helps with thebusiness objective.
It helps align what the CEO andCOO want, and it's something
that would work well for me.
So I think there's a lot of roomin there for that, from what it
sounds like.
The other thing here I caughtonto is this would mean bringing
(04:22):
on a couple of new people.
I.
Many chiefs of staff I speak togo into the chief of staff role.
'cause they don't want anydirect reports.
They're like people management.
Not for me, love people.
I could handle a few highperforming ics, but I don't want
to do like the people managementthing.
So this is a guess.
You could love people, you couldwant a team.
This could be a greatopportunity in that sense for
(04:43):
you, but just kind of callingthat out in case it's something
of a concern for you.
And I would say that.
Managing people is.
There's a lot of range inmanaging people.
Are you managing, an intern,it's their first job ever and
they're like bright eye andbushy tails.
They dunno what anything meansat all.
Or are you managing a seniorleader and a senior executive,
(05:07):
or even a very seasoned IC who'slike, plug and play.
I've done this before.
I can do it in my sleep.
I've been to the rodeo before.
I know what it's all about and Ican just do this for you.
Very hands off, veryself-sufficient, all those
things.
So.
Just kind of a, a word ofconsideration there that if
there is kind of a reluctance orhesitation around bringing on a
(05:28):
couple new people, depending onwho those people are, that could
be a very involved thing.
That could be a very hands offthing.
and again, you might be able tocraft that into what you want.
I.
If I'm going along with theguesses that I've had, in this
example, if you are building amini PMO function and you have
been in the PMO world before,maybe you have some contacts
(05:50):
where it's like, Hey, if youwant a mini PMO function, I know
this person, this person, thisperson.
They're excellent.
They're exactly what we need,and I know them.
I can work well with them and Ican build my team, in my own
mold in that sense.
So you could have options likethat at your fingertips.
Okay.
What else would love your takeon this?
(06:11):
Is it an opportunity or am Iwalking back into something I've
already outgrown?
From the outside looking in, Idon't see it as like, oh my
gosh, clearly you're walkingback into something that you've
outgrown.
I think again, you can craft itand maybe just have some
conversations around, hey, uh,like depending on your
relationship with the CEO andCOO, it could be like, Hey, I
know I come from a PMObackground.
(06:32):
I just wanna make sure that I'mstill gonna be involved in all
these other things.
Or even do a presumptive closearound that where, you know, as
we're building out this mini PMOteam, here's how I see this
integrating with the other.
Departments, or here's how I seethis integrating across
departments or in our long-termstrategy, all these things that
are just presumptively, you'restill doing all of the
(06:53):
overarching chief of staff rolesand responsibilities.
So I think if there's a concern,figure out how much of that is a
you thing versus how much ofthat is like, no, this actually
a good thing to talk aboutupfront and just kind of lace it
into the conversation.
Or, I don't know if this hasbeen like a, A thing between you
and the CEO or COO before, andyou need to hit it on the head
(07:17):
and make sure, hey, I wanna beclear about the expectations.
You could have that conversationtoo.
Nothing about this screams like,oh my gosh.
stepping back into somethingyou're, you've outgrown again,
I'm making some guesses here.
but I think this is anopportunity.
I think you can craft this howyou want it to be.
I think having a mini PMOfunction rolling up to you is.
(07:39):
Not a bad thing at all.
I think it's a good thing tohave a little oomph under the
chief of staff and have a littlearms and legs and tactical and
practical I can execute thisstrategy.
And it's not just you doing it,you have a mini team.
So I think all of those thingsare positive, Hopefully it gave
you some good food for thought.
Um, again, nothing about this isscreaming like no, like red
(08:00):
alert.
Don't do it.
it sounds like for you someconversations and some thinking
about what does this mean to meand what would I need to, I.
Talk about with my CEO and COOgoing into this decision.
It sounds like there's somethought that needs to be had
there, and you're reaching outto some folks, myself included,
about some considerations andinputs there, and then you can
(08:22):
move forward and come to a gooddecision for yourself and for
your team from there.
So I hope that helps and ifanyone else has a question
they'd like to ask and haveanswered on the air, then feel
free to reach out to me.
I have been told by my team notto say email me directly, which
I normally say.
I say, email me at Emily at nextlevel.
I.
Coach, but they have said tosay, drop it in the comments.
(08:46):
And they kind of told me that ina way where that's what the cool
kids say.
So if that's what I'm supposedto be saying, then if you have a
question for me, please drop itin the comments or Drop me a DM
on LinkedIn, so direct message.
Just message me on LinkedIn,find my profile.
It's in the show notes.
Or you could email me directlyat Emily at Next Level coach,
(09:07):
and I'll catch you next week onLeveraging Leadership.
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