August 6, 2025 • 12 mins
A Chief of Staff asks how to handle a team member who never submits their flash report, despite lots of reminders and training. Emily suggests letting the slacking team member feel the peer pressure in meetings, such as by leaving their section blank in the board report or calling on them in front of the group and holding an awkward silence. The episode covers practical escalation steps and emphasizes that, after fair attempts to help, it's okay to let someone face the consequences of not doing their part.
Links Mentioned:
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- Chief of Staff Toolkit
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Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.
Time Stamps:
00:50 The Problem with One Team Member
03:30 Escalation Tactics
03:54 Using Peer Pressure and Silence
06:11 Further Escalation and Consequences
08:19 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
emily-sander_2_07-08-2025_1 (00:25):
All right.
We have a listener question.
We have Muriel s from Raleigh,North Carolina says, Hey, Emily.
I'm a chief of staff at amid-sized company, and one of my
big responsibilities is keepingthe rhythm of business running,
including our weekly leadershipmeeting.
I actually took your advice froman earlier episode and started
doing a flash report with ateam.
Yay.
(00:46):
And for the most part, it's beenworking great.
Almost everyone's got theirinputs ready each week.
KPIs, updates the whole thing,and we pull it together and send
it up to the board, except forone person.
Dun dun, done.
Okay.
I've explained this more thanonce.
Showed them how to do it onZoom, even sat down in person
and ran them through it againwhen they were on site.
(01:07):
I know he prefers phone calls toemail.
So I've texted, called, you nameit, and still every single week
I'm chasing this person down.
Like they haven't had thisconversation 10 times already.
Ooh, I'm all for meeting peoplewhere they're at, but at this
point, I'm running out of waysto be helpful.
How do I get someone like thisto step up and just do their
part without turning it into awhole big thing?
(01:30):
Okay.
Okay, first of all, awesome.
You're doing the Flash Report.
Awesome.
It's working for the majority ofthe team, and it sounds like
you've done a lot here.
So it sounds like you've triedto meet this person halfway and
train them up on what they needto do.
For the Flash report I.
I have many thoughts andfeelings coming up here.
(01:51):
Uh, it sounds like you've goneabove and beyond to try to get
them on board with this thing.
I've, I've been this, been inthis scenario myself, Muriel,
and I've heard this, thisscenario so many times, so many
times from chiefs of staff andalso from other CEOs and C-Suite
team members about we do thisone thing and this one person
can't seem to get it.
(02:11):
Um, what are my thoughts andfeelings?
One of my feelings, to behonest, is.
Righteous anger at this.
It's like, come on, people.
Um, you've, you've gone aboveand beyond.
So here's, here's, lemme collectmy thoughts here for people
listening.
I.
First step, do what Mariel hasdone, which is do what is fair
(02:33):
and reasonable to train peopleup.
If a flash report or somethinglike that is brand new to the
team, you're gonna, you're gonnahave to take some time to roll
this out, to explain it, toexplain why, to explain what to
show people.
Here's how you actually do theKPIs and the rollouts, how we're
thinking about it.
And you do that once or twice,and maybe it's not perfect, but
(02:54):
it's closer.
And then third or fourth timeyou get there.
All do all that.
And it sounds like you've donethat Muriel.
So awesome job.
If there's some people who likearen't as fast on the uptake for
whatever reason and need someindividual help, then you go do
that.
And if they don't get it rightthe first time, but they're
trying, then you work with themsome more.
That's just how you do it.
You meet them, um, where they'reat with their communication
(03:15):
style, do all the things thatMuriel has talked about doing,
and then, and then if they stilldon't do it.
Repeatedly, and you've giventhem, you've given them every
opportunity to do it, and theystill don't do it.
Then there comes a time whereyou want to intentionally and
(03:36):
thoughtfully let them feel thenegative consequences of their
action or inaction.
IE you let them fall.
You let them fall a little bit.
You let them stumble, and youlet them look.
Not the greatest in front oftheir team.
Peer pressure is a thing, allright?
Peer pressure is a total thingand you use that wisely, and you
(03:57):
don't throw it aroundrecklessly, but you do use it.
It's a real thing when you're inyour weekly leadership meeting
and everyone else has their KPIKPIs and everyone else has their
rollouts and everyone else isready to go, and then you turn
to, let's say, Joe, and it'slike, Joe, your update please.
Uh, uh uh, let me tell somejokes or let me talk about the
baseball game, or let me talkabout this, or let me deflect or
(04:19):
talk about anecdotal stuff, orkind of talk about thematic
stuff.
And it's like, where are yourKPIs and do you have the rollout
like everyone else?
And if you make it clear thathe's the odd one out, it makes
him look bad.
And sometimes that's where it'sat.
Sometimes it's like, oh yeah, weare gonna call you out.
(04:40):
And here's the thing, manypeople don't do well with
silence.
And so creating that awkwardsilence is actually a tool you
can use.
Again, don't be mean about it.
Don't just like punish people.
But if it's to this point, Joe,your updates, please.
Your KPIs.
Oh, you know, uh, we had a greatweek.
(05:01):
Um, you know, the team reallyrallied.
I was so proud.
We had a great, uh, conversationwith this one person and then
another great conversation whereshe said she was gonna do this,
and that's, that's fantastic.
And, um, you know, travel kindof was tough with the back and
forth.
Yeah.
Joe, we talked about last weekhaving KPIs around this specific
thing as a team, and we wantedto look at this from different
(05:22):
angles, and you are gonna bring.
X, Y, and Z from yourdepartment.
Can you rule out those KPIs?
Uh, I mean, I just said, I justkind of talked about No, you
were talking about some otherconversations you had the KPIs.
We talked about silence.
Sit there in silence.
It's awkward.
(05:43):
People are looking at Joe,people are looking at each
other.
People are looking at you andyou hold the silence.
And then you let Joe kind offlummox around and then you go,
okay.
So Joe, it sounds like you don'thave the KPIs and the rest of
the team did.
Allow Joe to feel that and belike, oh, this is, this is
uncomfortable.
Okay, this is not great.
(06:04):
I don't like this.
I don't like being the oddperson out.
Like, no.
And there's an easy way toremedy that, Joe.
Come on buddy.
Okay.
So that's one.
I've had other chiefs of staffin similar situations where they
take it to the next level andthey will send the report up to
the board.
With Joe's section blank,knowing that everyone's going to
key in on that and be like,what?
(06:25):
Wait, what the heck is happeningwith Joe?
We need the updates from Joe'sdepartment.
That's an important department.
And then the questions will comeback from the board and instead
of the CEO or the chief of staffbuffering that question and
answer, they send them directlyto Joe.
Depending on the dynamics, andagain, be thoughtful here, apply
(06:45):
judgment, but depending on thedynamics, that can also be a
pressure filled situation whereit's like you just forward the
email with a follow-up questionto Joe, or you have the board
member you say.
Here's Joe's phone number.
Why don't you call him?
Or I can schedule a joint callwith myself and Joe and we can
jump on and you can ask him thatquestion directly.
So all of these things areoptions.
(07:06):
Again, don't be quote unquotemean about it.
Don't be like, I'm gonna punishpeople for it just because I'm
gonna be nasty.
But there are levels ofescalation here where again, if
you've done everything fair andreasonable, if you've done
everything that you can on yourend and you're not being met
halfway.
Then there are these stepfunctions or escalation steps
that are the next step that areappropriate.
(07:29):
If someone is not pulling theirweight and everyone else is
taking the time and taking themental energy to put together
they, their KPIs and sharingthem with the leadership team
and one person isn't.
That's them one beingdisrespectful to their team
members.
Two, they're not doing theirjob.
Part of their job is to.
(07:51):
Is to share what their team isdoing and be an ambassador for
their functional group to theleadership team and share that.
So they're not representingtheir team very well either, so
they're not doing their job.
You don't need to mollycoddlesomeone who is not doing their
job on a long-term basis, right?
You wanna give themopportunities and tools and the
why, and blah, blah, blah, allthese things.
(08:12):
But there comes a point wherethe rubber meets the road, like
Joe's gotta figure it out.
Joe's gotta figure himself out.
So.
Let me, I went on on like atotal tangent there.
Lemme come back to thisquestion, Muriel.
Yes.
Okay, so how do I do thiswithout turning it into a big
thing?
I would actually make it a bigthing.
It sounds like you've done allthis stuff, all this, all the
stuff and things you're supposedto do.
At this point I might turn itlike, like a whole big thing,
(08:34):
but just like, Joe, yourupdates, please, Joe, your
updates please.
Do you not have any updates?
Awkward silence.
Okay.
Next week we would appreciatesome updates.
and then maybe next time it's.
Joe, we talked about this lastweek.
Um, we're gonna send thesereports up to the board and like
(08:55):
normally I fill out yoursection, Joe, but your section's
gonna be blank.
So if you want something fornext week, let me know.
Wait, no, no.
Like don't send my stuff upblank this week.
I'm sorry, but if you don't getin on time with everyone else,
like that's just how it goes.
But you know, next week we canget yours in.
So like little escalation stepslike that you pick what's
appropriate for you and yourteam and your Joe quote unquote.
Um, just again, making this up,but you are closer to it.
(09:20):
You know, this individual inquestion, you know, the team
dynamics, you know, the boarddynamics, you know, your
relationship with thisindividual.
So cater this to, to yourspecific scenario, but take the
gist of what I'm saying and takethe, the theme of what I'm
saying, which is there comes apoint where you gotta let them
fall and I'm, Hmm.
(09:42):
There's an analogy coming to myhead.
It's, it's to do with like alittle children.
Little kids.
Again, I don't mean to bepejorative.
I don't mean to be derogatory,but this is apt in some ways.
So you have a little kid, let'ssay little Johnny is learning to
ride a bike, and you're like,Johnny, you gotta pedal like
this buddy.
You gotta pedal like this orelse you're gonna fall over.
No, no, no.
I'm, you gotta pedal like this.
(10:04):
Let me show you again.
Let me show, let me hold yourhands.
Hold the handrails.
Okay, I got it.
You got it.
Are we good?
And they don't do it.
It's like, all right.
That kid is gonna fall.
If I don't keep helping them,that kid's gonna fall and it's
gonna hurt.
There comes a point where youlet little Johnny fall.
Now are you gonna let littleJohnny fall off the edge of a
(10:24):
cliff face and like concussthemselves and have compound
fractures their first time?
No.
You're not gonna do that.
Are you gonna hold your handsnext to little Johnny's
handrails and let him fall andscrape his knee and go, oh, ow
that stings.
Oh yeah, they said pedal thisway, not that way.
Okay, let me try it that time.
(10:44):
That might be an analogy you canuse here.
You're not gonna let'em crashand burn, although that is an
option.
Just, just to throw that outthere.
I have seen this where.
This has gone on long enough andthere's multiple data points.
There's all this stuff going onbehind the scenes where it's
like, all right, we've got aboard meeting.
Everyone else is prepped,everyone else has participated,
(11:05):
and we're gonna go in and Joe isgonna get this question.
And we've told him he is gonnaget this question and he's not
engaged with us, and so we'rejust gonna let him go in there.
And light himself on fire and ohmy gosh, it's on fire and oh my
gosh, there's a smoke cloud.
And now, okay, now there's likea mushroom cloud, like all this
thing, there are like setspecific times and places for
(11:28):
those things to happen.
I.
I don't think it's here.
I think what you're talkingabout here is more of a let's
little, let little Johnny scrapetheir knee and see if that gets
their attention.
And sometimes it does andsometimes it's like, oh, okay.
Totally got it.
Like I was called out in frontof my team.
That's not gonna happen again.
So now only come back to you,chief of staff, to you, Mariel,
(11:50):
and give you a draft of my flashreport.
Is this good to go?
Are we good to go now?
Yep.
That's good to go.
Thank you so much Joe, and youcarry on your own merry way.
Okay.
So hopefully that answered it.
sorry if I got a little animatedthere.
I have seen this over and overand over again and it's super
frustrating.
I.
I had a situation very similarto this, and I've heard so many
(12:12):
chiefs of staff speak about thisas well.
So thank you for asking thequestion.
Mariel, I can guarantee youpeople listening.
There's more people listeningthan you know who are like, yes,
yes, I'm in this situation too.
So you've helped a lot of peopleby asking this question.
And by the way, if you arelistening and you have a
question of your own or your owntake on a question or want some
(12:33):
input or just thoughts onsomething, So feel free to drop
a question in the comments ordrop me a DM on LinkedIn or
email me directly at Emily atNext Level Coach, and I'll catch
you next week on leveragingLeadership.
All right.
We have a listener question.
We have Muriel s from Raleigh,North Carolina says, Hey, Emily.
I'm a chief of staff at amid-sized company, and one of my
big responsibilities is keepingthe rhythm of business running,
including our weekly leadershipmeeting.
I actually took your advice froman earlier episode and started
doing a flash report with ateam.
Yay.
(00:46):
And for the most part, it's beenworking great.
Almost everyone's got theirinputs ready each week.
KPIs, updates the whole thing,and we pull it together and send
it up to the board, except forone person.
Dun dun, done.
Okay.
I've explained this more thanonce.
Showed them how to do it onZoom, even sat down in person
and ran them through it againwhen they were on site.
(01:07):
I know he prefers phone calls toemail.
So I've texted, called, you nameit, and still every single week
I'm chasing this person down.
Like they haven't had thisconversation 10 times already.
Ooh, I'm all for meeting peoplewhere they're at, but at this
point, I'm running out of waysto be helpful.
How do I get someone like thisto step up and just do their
part without turning it into awhole big thing?
(01:30):
Okay.
Okay, first of all, awesome.
You're doing the Flash Report.
Awesome.
It's working for the majority ofthe team, and it sounds like
you've done a lot here.
So it sounds like you've triedto meet this person halfway and
train them up on what they needto do.
For the Flash report I.
I have many thoughts andfeelings coming up here.
(01:51):
Uh, it sounds like you've goneabove and beyond to try to get
them on board with this thing.
I've, I've been this, been inthis scenario myself, Muriel,
and I've heard this, thisscenario so many times, so many
times from chiefs of staff andalso from other CEOs and C-Suite
team members about we do thisone thing and this one person
can't seem to get it.
(02:11):
Um, what are my thoughts andfeelings?
One of my feelings, to behonest, is.
Righteous anger at this.
It's like, come on, people.
Um, you've, you've gone aboveand beyond.
So here's, here's, lemme collectmy thoughts here for people
listening.
I.
First step, do what Mariel hasdone, which is do what is fair
(02:33):
and reasonable to train peopleup.
If a flash report or somethinglike that is brand new to the
team, you're gonna, you're gonnahave to take some time to roll
this out, to explain it, toexplain why, to explain what to
show people.
Here's how you actually do theKPIs and the rollouts, how we're
thinking about it.
And you do that once or twice,and maybe it's not perfect, but
(02:54):
it's closer.
And then third or fourth timeyou get there.
All do all that.
And it sounds like you've donethat Muriel.
So awesome job.
If there's some people who likearen't as fast on the uptake for
whatever reason and need someindividual help, then you go do
that.
And if they don't get it rightthe first time, but they're
trying, then you work with themsome more.
That's just how you do it.
You meet them, um, where they'reat with their communication
(03:15):
style, do all the things thatMuriel has talked about doing,
and then, and then if they stilldon't do it.
Repeatedly, and you've giventhem, you've given them every
opportunity to do it, and theystill don't do it.
Then there comes a time whereyou want to intentionally and
(03:36):
thoughtfully let them feel thenegative consequences of their
action or inaction.
IE you let them fall.
You let them fall a little bit.
You let them stumble, and youlet them look.
Not the greatest in front oftheir team.
Peer pressure is a thing, allright?
Peer pressure is a total thingand you use that wisely, and you
(03:57):
don't throw it aroundrecklessly, but you do use it.
It's a real thing when you're inyour weekly leadership meeting
and everyone else has their KPIKPIs and everyone else has their
rollouts and everyone else isready to go, and then you turn
to, let's say, Joe, and it'slike, Joe, your update please.
Uh, uh uh, let me tell somejokes or let me talk about the
baseball game, or let me talkabout this, or let me deflect or
(04:19):
talk about anecdotal stuff, orkind of talk about thematic
stuff.
And it's like, where are yourKPIs and do you have the rollout
like everyone else?
And if you make it clear thathe's the odd one out, it makes
him look bad.
And sometimes that's where it'sat.
Sometimes it's like, oh yeah, weare gonna call you out.
(04:40):
And here's the thing, manypeople don't do well with
silence.
And so creating that awkwardsilence is actually a tool you
can use.
Again, don't be mean about it.
Don't just like punish people.
But if it's to this point, Joe,your updates, please.
Your KPIs.
Oh, you know, uh, we had a greatweek.
(05:01):
Um, you know, the team reallyrallied.
I was so proud.
We had a great, uh, conversationwith this one person and then
another great conversation whereshe said she was gonna do this,
and that's, that's fantastic.
And, um, you know, travel kindof was tough with the back and
forth.
Yeah.
Joe, we talked about last weekhaving KPIs around this specific
thing as a team, and we wantedto look at this from different
(05:22):
angles, and you are gonna bring.
X, Y, and Z from yourdepartment.
Can you rule out those KPIs?
Uh, I mean, I just said, I justkind of talked about No, you
were talking about some otherconversations you had the KPIs.
We talked about silence.
Sit there in silence.
It's awkward.
(05:43):
People are looking at Joe,people are looking at each
other.
People are looking at you andyou hold the silence.
And then you let Joe kind offlummox around and then you go,
okay.
So Joe, it sounds like you don'thave the KPIs and the rest of
the team did.
Allow Joe to feel that and belike, oh, this is, this is
uncomfortable.
Okay, this is not great.
(06:04):
I don't like this.
I don't like being the oddperson out.
Like, no.
And there's an easy way toremedy that, Joe.
Come on buddy.
Okay.
So that's one.
I've had other chiefs of staffin similar situations where they
take it to the next level andthey will send the report up to
the board.
With Joe's section blank,knowing that everyone's going to
key in on that and be like,what?
(06:25):
Wait, what the heck is happeningwith Joe?
We need the updates from Joe'sdepartment.
That's an important department.
And then the questions will comeback from the board and instead
of the CEO or the chief of staffbuffering that question and
answer, they send them directlyto Joe.
Depending on the dynamics, andagain, be thoughtful here, apply
(06:45):
judgment, but depending on thedynamics, that can also be a
pressure filled situation whereit's like you just forward the
email with a follow-up questionto Joe, or you have the board
member you say.
Here's Joe's phone number.
Why don't you call him?
Or I can schedule a joint callwith myself and Joe and we can
jump on and you can ask him thatquestion directly.
So all of these things areoptions.
(07:06):
Again, don't be quote unquotemean about it.
Don't be like, I'm gonna punishpeople for it just because I'm
gonna be nasty.
But there are levels ofescalation here where again, if
you've done everything fair andreasonable, if you've done
everything that you can on yourend and you're not being met
halfway.
Then there are these stepfunctions or escalation steps
that are the next step that areappropriate.
(07:29):
If someone is not pulling theirweight and everyone else is
taking the time and taking themental energy to put together
they, their KPIs and sharingthem with the leadership team
and one person isn't.
That's them one beingdisrespectful to their team
members.
Two, they're not doing theirjob.
Part of their job is to.
(07:51):
Is to share what their team isdoing and be an ambassador for
their functional group to theleadership team and share that.
So they're not representingtheir team very well either, so
they're not doing their job.
You don't need to mollycoddlesomeone who is not doing their
job on a long-term basis, right?
You wanna give themopportunities and tools and the
why, and blah, blah, blah, allthese things.
(08:12):
But there comes a point wherethe rubber meets the road, like
Joe's gotta figure it out.
Joe's gotta figure himself out.
So.
Let me, I went on on like atotal tangent there.
Lemme come back to thisquestion, Muriel.
Yes.
Okay, so how do I do thiswithout turning it into a big
thing?
I would actually make it a bigthing.
It sounds like you've done allthis stuff, all this, all the
stuff and things you're supposedto do.
At this point I might turn itlike, like a whole big thing,
(08:34):
but just like, Joe, yourupdates, please, Joe, your
updates please.
Do you not have any updates?
Awkward silence.
Okay.
Next week we would appreciatesome updates.
and then maybe next time it's.
Joe, we talked about this lastweek.
Um, we're gonna send thesereports up to the board and like
(08:55):
normally I fill out yoursection, Joe, but your section's
gonna be blank.
So if you want something fornext week, let me know.
Wait, no, no.
Like don't send my stuff upblank this week.
I'm sorry, but if you don't getin on time with everyone else,
like that's just how it goes.
But you know, next week we canget yours in.
So like little escalation stepslike that you pick what's
appropriate for you and yourteam and your Joe quote unquote.
Um, just again, making this up,but you are closer to it.
(09:20):
You know, this individual inquestion, you know, the team
dynamics, you know, the boarddynamics, you know, your
relationship with thisindividual.
So cater this to, to yourspecific scenario, but take the
gist of what I'm saying and takethe, the theme of what I'm
saying, which is there comes apoint where you gotta let them
fall and I'm, Hmm.
(09:42):
There's an analogy coming to myhead.
It's, it's to do with like alittle children.
Little kids.
Again, I don't mean to bepejorative.
I don't mean to be derogatory,but this is apt in some ways.
So you have a little kid, let'ssay little Johnny is learning to
ride a bike, and you're like,Johnny, you gotta pedal like
this buddy.
You gotta pedal like this orelse you're gonna fall over.
No, no, no.
I'm, you gotta pedal like this.
(10:04):
Let me show you again.
Let me show, let me hold yourhands.
Hold the handrails.
Okay, I got it.
You got it.
Are we good?
And they don't do it.
It's like, all right.
That kid is gonna fall.
If I don't keep helping them,that kid's gonna fall and it's
gonna hurt.
There comes a point where youlet little Johnny fall.
Now are you gonna let littleJohnny fall off the edge of a
(10:24):
cliff face and like concussthemselves and have compound
fractures their first time?
No.
You're not gonna do that.
Are you gonna hold your handsnext to little Johnny's
handrails and let him fall andscrape his knee and go, oh, ow
that stings.
Oh yeah, they said pedal thisway, not that way.
Okay, let me try it that time.
(10:44):
That might be an analogy you canuse here.
You're not gonna let'em crashand burn, although that is an
option.
Just, just to throw that outthere.
I have seen this where.
This has gone on long enough andthere's multiple data points.
There's all this stuff going onbehind the scenes where it's
like, all right, we've got aboard meeting.
Everyone else is prepped,everyone else has participated,
(11:05):
and we're gonna go in and Joe isgonna get this question.
And we've told him he is gonnaget this question and he's not
engaged with us, and so we'rejust gonna let him go in there.
And light himself on fire and ohmy gosh, it's on fire and oh my
gosh, there's a smoke cloud.
And now, okay, now there's likea mushroom cloud, like all this
thing, there are like setspecific times and places for
(11:28):
those things to happen.
I.
I don't think it's here.
I think what you're talkingabout here is more of a let's
little, let little Johnny scrapetheir knee and see if that gets
their attention.
And sometimes it does andsometimes it's like, oh, okay.
Totally got it.
Like I was called out in frontof my team.
That's not gonna happen again.
So now only come back to you,chief of staff, to you, Mariel,
(11:50):
and give you a draft of my flashreport.
Is this good to go?
Are we good to go now?
Yep.
That's good to go.
Thank you so much Joe, and youcarry on your own merry way.
Okay.
So hopefully that answered it.
sorry if I got a little animatedthere.
I have seen this over and overand over again and it's super
frustrating.
I.
I had a situation very similarto this, and I've heard so many
(12:12):
chiefs of staff speak about thisas well.
So thank you for asking thequestion.
Mariel, I can guarantee youpeople listening.
There's more people listeningthan you know who are like, yes,
yes, I'm in this situation too.
So you've helped a lot of peopleby asking this question.
And by the way, if you arelistening and you have a
question of your own or your owntake on a question or want some
(12:33):
input or just thoughts onsomething, So feel free to drop
a question in the comments ordrop me a DM on LinkedIn or
email me directly at Emily atNext Level Coach, and I'll catch
you next week on leveragingLeadership.
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