Listener Question: Why Your Boss Wants Results, Not Databases

Episode Transcript
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emily-sander_3_10-29-2025_16 (00:25):
We have a listener question from
Octavian.
Cool name.
You could be a Roman Emperor whosays, my boss keeps saying, I
don't care about the database, Icare about results.
I've tried to explain.
We literally can't deliver thoseresults with the new
constraints, but he just cuts meoff saying, I don't care.
Why do you keep bringing this tome?

(00:45):
I'm giving him all the reports.
I don't get what I'm missing.
Okay.
Um, okay.
Octavian, you can conquerempires, but getting through to
your boss seems to bechallenging.
Um, the first thing I'm curiousabout is what your boss means by
results.
So if you know what results are,then I think that's a good first

(01:07):
step.
If you're not, I would get clearon that real quickly, so maybe
ask around that.
But if you're clear like, oh,like I know what he wants Emily,
because he talks about this allthe time, or like everyone knows
here are our top three goalstype of thing, that I would make
sure that your messaging andyour conversations with him and
the information you're providingare all.

(01:29):
Perceived as trying to help getto those results.
'cause it seems like there's adisconnect somewhere where it's
like, I'm trying to get thisway.
He says, I'm trying to do this,I'm trying to get results.
And you're talking about thisstuff over here, you're talking
about the database.
You're, you're giving me allthese reports.
Type of thing.
So there's like some disconnectof messaging and maybe it's just

(01:52):
semantics or the words you'reusing, but I would get crystal
clear on like, okay, whatresults are you looking for?
so that's step one.
I tried to explain.
We literally can't deliver onthose result results with the
new constraints.
Okay.
So I don't know what theseconstraints are.
Are they like budgetconstraints?
Are they, um, like functionalitycon?
I don't know what constraintsthese are.

(02:12):
Let me just say that if you haveconstraints.
I would then flip the messagingor frame the messaging to where
you're giving him options thatovercome the constraints.
let me try to give an example.
So it might be, I can get you tothe results you want.

(02:34):
I can.
I can make this result happen.
I will need this, this, andthis.
That's one way to do it.
You might.
Frame it up as option A and B oroption A, B, and C.
Like, we have a couple optionshere.
We can get you the results youwant with the current, uh,
budget or current bandwidth orcurrent whatever.

(02:56):
maybe don't use the wordconstraints unless, unless you
need to, but, you know, I canget you the results you want
with the current situation thatwill take this long.
Maybe it's a time thing, like wecan do this, it's just gonna
take forever.
Like no one's gonna wanna waitthat long.
Uh, that's option A.
Option B is if we had, I don'tknow, like two more people, then

(03:20):
we could deliver the results inthis amount of time.
So you could be like option A,option B.
so those are some different waysto get creative about framing up
your answer and conversation.
And I would make sure that.
In asking, what do you mean byresults?
Or like, let me, let me tell youwhat I think you mean when you

(03:40):
say results or like what I hearwhen I, when I hear results, I
think we mean this, this andthis.
Is that what you mean?
Oh, no, no, no.
Octavian like, I mean this, whenI say, oh, okay, hold on, that
changes the game.
Let me, let me now rethink myanswer type of thing.
Um, in all of that, I wouldn't.
I would be sure not to make itconfrontational.

(04:02):
I would be sure not to make itlike, well, like you weren't
clear on the results.
I would just make it asobjective, as neutral as
possible where I just wanna makesure I'm hearing, I just wanna
make sure I'm understandingresults accurately.
Can I share what I hear or whatI understand to be the result?
Something like that to make itjust.

(04:23):
I'm trying to get clear.
I'm not trying to be, I'm nottrying to be an ass hat here.
I'm just trying to be clear.
Then when you talk about theoptions or like what I would
need, don't make it like what Iwould need to get you the
results you need.
Like don't, don't take thattrack or take that tone.
I would just literally share thefacts.
Share the data you have.

(04:45):
Like here's, here's what I haveto work with.
Here's the constraints, orhere's the parameters I have to
work with.
So if you're saying I want thisresult, then here's what we can
do given the parameters we haveright now.
Now, if these parameters canchange in any which way, then
that changes the outcome.
That changes the timeline, thatchanges the deliverable, that
changes the whatever.
And we can talk about option Bover here.

(05:07):
Okay.
Um.
Yeah, but he cuts me off.
So I'm kind of getting the sensethat this has been like an
ongoing conversation and there'ssome frustration level from both
parties, from one party, fromeveryone involved.
let's see.
I'm giving him all the reports.
I don't get what I'm missing.
Okay.

(05:27):
So it's interesting, like itmight just be a turn of phrase,
get what I'm missing, but itmight be you are picking up on
like, I'm missing something.
There's a gap in communication.
Like I am sending a signal onthis wavelength and he's
operating on that wavelength, sowe're kind of missing each
other.
so again, sometimes the languagestuff, like get clear on
results.

(05:48):
Um.
I've given him all the reports.
If he doesn't want the reports,the reports aren't helpful.
I, I don't know what, what thesereports are.
If, like, if I've, I've hadsituations where it's like,
here's like the source material,here's the deep dive, here's
what I look at every day.
And someone's like, I don't, Idon't care about that.
I can't even read that if Iwanted to, I don't know what

(06:09):
that means.
Just give me the bottom line,give me the results.
So it might be the.
The actual content you'resending him, the re, the reports
might not be what he's lookingfor, or maybe all the reports
might not be what he's lookingfor.
Maybe it's one report.
Maybe it's a certain report.
Maybe it's a summary of acertain report.

(06:31):
Maybe it's like, give me thebottom line of the report.
Maybe it's, I don't want to lookat reports.
I want you to interpret for me,from everything you're seeing,
give me the bottom line.
And this, this, this can be agood framework for you to use
and for anyone to use if theyhave this type of boss where
it's like, I don't, I'm notgonna read the reports.

(06:53):
I'm not gonna sit there and digthrough the data, the data sets.
Are you kidding me?
I'm not like rummaging throughtables and data and like charts
and everything.
Give me the bottom line and thenI'll tell you if I want further
information.
So it could be, instead ofgiving him all these reports,
all right, what's the bottomline?

(07:13):
What's the crux of the issue?
What is the decision to be made?
What is, here's what he wants inone sentence, here's what he
wants in three bullet points,short bullet points.
It's kinda like an iceberg, likeyou're sharing the tip of the
iceberg.
Do you know more, is there moredata and information in the, in

(07:35):
all the reports?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And that's what you live andbreathe.
But he just needs the tip of theiceberg.
He just needs the bottom line.
So it might be, and I've hadpeople, like in coaching
sessions, like, we need to do ashare screen.
Like, here's my email to my, I'mlike, no, no, no.
Like that.
That's like walls of text.

(07:55):
I've spoken with your boss or Iget a sense of your boss from
our conversations.
They want like the bottom line.
Do two sentences with the bottomline and then say, happy to
discuss further, or happy tojump on a call or let me know if
you need anything else.
I can talk you through in 15minutes type of thing.
Most bosses.
Most high level executivesappreciate that.

(08:18):
'cause they're running arounddoing like 47 different things
and they're like, I don't havetime for all the reports.
Just tell me the, just tell methe thing and then I'll ask you
if I need more information.
So that might be something youcan use here.
Um, I don't get what I'mmissing.
You could just have like kindalike a timeout.
Like, hold on.
Like we're missing each otherhere.

(08:39):
We're missing each other.
I'm not trying, like, I'm nottrying to be difficult.
I'm like, and you can turn it onyourself and be
self-deprecating.
What am I missing?
Like, I'm missing something hereand I'm might like, all right.
Your boss might go, okay.
Okay.
Nope.
Okay.
Time out.
Yep.
Um, look, I feel like we'remissing each other here and open

(08:59):
up that kind of dialogue.
Okay.
Yeah, no, I sense that too.
But I'm, I'm trying to do thisand I'm trying to give you, and,
and you're not responding tothis, and the boss might say,
okay, I, I don't want thisthough.
I don't want this.
That's where I don't want this,I want that.
Oh, okay.
You want that?
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm not, I, I hear you say youwant that.

(09:20):
I don't quite know why you wantthat.
Okay.
Let me explain why I want that.
Da, da, da.
Oh, oh, oh.
I, okay.
Once you explain it that way Ican connect the dots.
You were like talking in smokesignals.
You were talking in weirdlanguage.
Now I know the why and the whatbehind it.
Okay.
Now I can better answer yourquestion.
Might not agree with it.
Might not.
Like the constraints might notlike the situation, but now I

(09:43):
understand now.
Now we're speaking the samelanguage.
Now we're on the same radiofrequency, we're on the same
wavelength.
At least we're talking to eachother here.
So I would try to level set andget yourself on that plane of
dialogue even if you are stilllike, I don't, I don't agree
with what you're asking me, or Idon't agree with what you're

(10:03):
asking me to do with littleresources or whatever, whatever
situation you have.
Um, okay.
So my boss keeps saying, I don'tcare about the database, I care
about the results.
Um, okay.
So database is interesting.
So in my experience, I used towork for a company where our
data and our data set was likeour proprietary gold, like

(10:27):
everyone in in the industrywanted it and we had access to
it.
And so our database wasprecious, but it wasn't the
database itself, it was what wecould get out of the database
and how we could manipulate thedata and slice and dice the
data.
And for a while we were likemonolithic.
We were like, here's the data.
Database, but no one can get toit because of the coding we had

(10:48):
like Ruby on Rails and someother kind of esoteric way that
people had initially set thatup.
And we eventually had todismantle that whole thing and
recode the thing and it took 18months, but it wasn't sexy is
the point.
But we needed it to doeverything else we wanted to do
with our product set, with ourcustomers, with reporting, with
visibility, with all this stuff.
For strategic partnerships, likeall this stuff, we needed to be

(11:09):
able to get into the database.
So this might.
Not be your case at all,Octavian, but just.
I have that in my brain.
It might be your boss is saying,I don't care about the database.
I care about the results.
Meaning I care about what we canget out of the database.
I care about what the data tellsus.

(11:30):
I care.
I care about how we can.
Serve that up into products ordashboards or reports or make
informed decisions or whatever.
it might be when your boss hearsdatabase, it's like, stop saying
that I don't care about thedatabase, I care about this.
Like, I care about how we canuse it.
So it might be a little bit of,of that dialogue as well.

(11:50):
Okay.
So hopefully that gets you towhat you're quote unquote
missing.
It's like, oh, Emily, I thinkyou, I think you hit it.
I think that's it.
Or it could be like, I'm stillnot quite sure, but I have some
conversation starters or I havean idea about how to.
Write my next email to my boss.

(12:11):
That's gonna be helpful.
So hopefully you have somethingto take away there.
But, um, yes, a, this is acommon thing where people get
frustrated'cause they're kind oftalking past each other.
So just getting clear about thedifferent, the different terms
you're using, the differentwords, the different use cases,
the different context, likewhat's important, like why is he
wanting the results?
What are the results?
Why are those important to him?

(12:32):
And any kind of semantics whereit's like when he, when you
look, when every time you saydatabase, he's gonna get
frustrated.
So you might either have toredefine what database means, so
that's no longer like a triggerword for him.
Or use a different word, use adifferent word, pick a new word.
It might mean the same thing,but it just clears the decks and
it's like, all right, I can talkabout, um, I can talk about our.

(12:57):
Our data center or ourinformation center, or our
information sets, or whateverelse you want to call it.
Like that makes me calmer.
I can talk about that.
We're talking on the samewavelength now and you just like
dump database.
So sometimes it's like littleword games like that, it's not
frivolous sometimes it makes ahuge difference.
It makes a huge difference withpeople, the words you use.

(13:17):
So anyway, hopefully that's beenhelpful and we'll call this one
a wrap and I will catch all ofyou next week on leveraging
leadership.

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