July 28, 2025 • 39 mins
Steve Werner shares how he helps founders and companies run engaging sales events by building a story arc that keeps audiences interested. He gives practical tips for prepping investor pitch decks, including being clear about strengths and weaknesses, saying where you need help, and avoiding slides covered in text. The conversation covers how to sequence team stories in a pitch, build trust with investors, and handle tough Q&A sessions.
Links Mentioned:
Free Resources:
- Strategic Planning Checklist
- Chief of Staff Skills Assessment Checklist
- A Day in the Life of a Chief of Staff
- Chief of Staff Toolkit
Get in Touch With Emily:
- Connect on LinkedIn
- Follow on YouTube
- Learn more about coaching
- Sign up for the newsletter
- Clarity Call with Emily
Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.
Time Stamps:
00:39 Connecting Over Shared Interests
01:22 Event Planning and Production
02:07 Engaging Presentations
06:40 Crafting a Compelling Pitch
16:59 The Hero's Journey in Storytelling
19:47 Introducing Key Team Members
21:12 Crafting Different Pitch Segments
22:57 Building Trust Through Vulnerability
30:20 Handling Q&A Effectively
35:36 Final Tips and Personal Insights
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_09 (00:25):
My guest today is Steve Werner and
he is here with a super clearhat on.
It says Clarity, which I love.
Uh, Steve, welcome to the show.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (00:36):
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
I am so excited, Emily,
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (00:39):
Steve and I are doing a pod swap.
So I was on his show.
He was kind enough to have me onand we just got to chat chatting
afterwards and usually the hostand guests will kind of chit
chat afterwards.
We spoke for a good, like.
25, 30 minutes afterwards.
Cause we were just clicking on awhole bunch of things.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_110 (00:55):
I remember, when we were chatting,
like there is so much, um, andwe were, we were chatting around
how to help founders fund, likecapital raising.
And then that led into theconversation all around chief of
staff and how that shouldpossibly be their first hire.
It was so interesting there.
I actually have a ton of notesfrom that conversation.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (01:16):
And we were also talking about the
fact that you, would you sayproduce or direct these multi
day events and where you speakto a founder, a company, and you
really.
Pull out their narrative andtheir story arc they want to
tell and what they want to getto by the end.
And then you bring in differentspeakers, you set up different
(01:37):
panels, you sequence the wholething, and then you coach the
speakers on how to do that.
And I thought that wasfascinating.
Um, just you do the wholeproduction of it, but maybe just
give folks a brief introductionof yourself and what you've been
up to and what you're doing now.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (01:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks.
Um, so it's not a meetingplanner or it's not an event
planner.
That's somebody who handles thetechnical details.
Like what's the soundstage looklike?
What's the audio.
What I look at is we've all beento one of those events where
people are just leaving the roomor they're on their phone,
they're on their laptop.
They're not really payingattention to what's going on
(02:10):
because the speakers don't linktogether.
The speakers aren't that greatat presenting, right?
Somebody probably told them theyhad to be up there.
They've got slides with 251.
Words on it that you can't
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (02:22):
No.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_1 (02:23):
and like speaker number one, like
you're kind of into what he'sdoing, but then speaker number
two goes a completely differentdirection.
And it's like, these events areexpensive.
Uh, an event budget can beanywhere from 250, 000 to, we
did an event once with like a 4million budget.
If you're spending that much onthe event, it makes sense.
(02:43):
So we call it a story arc.
It's a very clean one, step two,step three.
It starts with why are you here?
What's the big outcome?
Stretch the gap, show peoplewhere they're going to end up,
then have speakers lined up thattake them on a journey.
If you do the event correctly,people should be on their edge
of their seats, excited, full ofenergy.
(03:04):
They shouldn't even want to pickup their phone or their laptop.
Learn That comes down then toonce you have that arc laid out,
how do you work with eachspeaker to make sure that their
speech grabs the audience'sattention is easy to follow,
easy to understand, andentertaining as well as teaches
a golden nugget.
(03:25):
That's what I do.
So we look at, we sit down withthe event plant, like the event
host, who's holding it, we findout what their end goal is,
what's the big reason you'reholding this event, and then we
craft the whole event around itso that you get maximum impact.
That's why you're holding anevent, whether it's a sales
event, your company is sellingsomething from the event, that's
(03:47):
80 percent of our events.
And then.
The other 20 percent is like theinternal company event company's
paying to put it on and they're,they're hoping that their
employees will become motivated,that they'll come together with
a good corporate culture.
But a lot of times that doesn'thappen.
So where I come in is to makesure that this is all planned
(04:09):
out well and then we help withthe marketing and getting
everything out front, whetherthat's the internal event,
internal marketing or externalmarketing to fill the event so
that you maximize sales.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (04:22):
Yes.
Beautiful.
So you're, I mean, I think of itas like the director or the
orchestrator of the whole thing,kind of like strings and drums
and all this stuff comingtogether to a beautiful
symphony.
And I, I've spoken about, youknow, go into a presentation or
an event and say, what do youwant people to feel, think and
do by the end, and then buildyour event towards that.
(04:42):
And it sounds like you do thatbeautifully.
And I like the fact that, youknow, by the way.
People don't get motivated orexcited or are driven to action
by reading.
A great wall of text verbatimoff of a slide.
So if you take nothing else awayfrom this, just please don't do
that.
Cause that's, that's not whatyou want.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (05:01):
that is okay.
So you said two things there.
I'm going to start with theslide.
Your slide should have most ofyour slides should have no more
than 12 words per slide.
Some of your slides can have alittle bit more.
The most you should have is 30words per slide.
And if you are reading them toyour point, Emily, if you are
(05:24):
reading your slide, you might aswell.
tell people to leave the room.
They can read the slidethemselves.
What you actually want to do ishave them paying attention to
you.
The slide should have a bulletpoint and then you should be
expounding the slide so thatpeople are paying attention to
you.
And this actually dovetails intothe first thing that you said,
(05:46):
which I love so much.
It is about the feeling thatpeople get.
I want listeners, anyonelistening to this, just think
about the last event that youwent to and your favorite
presentation.
You can probably only tell me abullet point or two of what you
got, but you can tell me howthat guy made you feel.
(06:08):
And that's what drives action isfeeling and trust.
That's what you can do fromstage.
And instead we see these peopletrying to put 800 words on a
slide and cram everything theyhave in their brain into a 45
minute presentation, which neverworks well.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (06:24):
And by the way, if someone remembers
how you made them feel and onemain point from your
presentation, you've won likewinner, winner, dinner.
Yeah.
Okay.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (06:34):
Yes.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (06:34):
Okay, so I wanted to get that out
there because I love how you,you know, we talk about event
planning and event planners aregreat and they do a fantastic
job and you're just taking thisto a whole different dimension
with what you're doing and wetalked a lot about how we would
prep speakers and differentthings because People come out
this from different angles andwe can talk about that later in
the show but what I want to getto is If we're talking to a
(06:56):
founder, or perhaps a chief ofstaff who is prepping the
founder or perhaps themanagement team for investor
pitch decks, and how do theycraft that story?
So, to me, there's kind of aKind of a couple of story arcs
happening in parallel, which isthe founder story arc and the
company story arc.
(07:17):
And when I speak to foundersabout this, um, it's, it's about
you, but it's not about you andthe story you want to tell.
It has to be open ended at theend because there's a next
chapter that you want to be ableto tell if you get this next
round of funding.
So that's kind of the, the verybasic structure I tee people up
(07:39):
with, but how would you go aboutkind of coaching a founder for a
compelling pitch deck?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_11 (07:45):
So there's, I'll, I'll lay out some
of the things that I see thatpeople do that are mistakes that
I think actually hurt them andcause them to lose the offer,
right?
The first one is we, when we tryto tell our own story, It goes
all over the
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (08:03):
Yeah.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (08:03):
It's a big, crazy drawing that makes
no sense.
And if you say that to somebody,you are not, you are not in
like, they don't have confidencein what you are going to say
next or what you're going to do.
If you can't be clear wellformulated, They're not going to
(08:24):
have confidence in you.
Now, the second place thatpeople go wrong is they don't
tell the story.
They tell a 32nd story and thenthey jump into really high level
and deep details of thebusiness.
That is not what you want to doin a pitch deck.
One of the things that I love,um, I always point people to
(08:44):
good and bad pitches on sharktank.
You want to To endear people,you have to be Chris, you have
to have some charisma.
You have to show them why theyshould trust you.
And you have to be, this is thelast piece where I see a lot of
people be, have a challenge.
You have to be vulnerable.
And this is actually where theopen ended piece comes from.
(09:06):
If you say, Hey, I started thissock company and I love
designing things.
I love the colors.
I love great people.
and you have reasons for thatbuilt into your story and then
you get somewhere towards theend and you say, okay, so the
reason that I'm here is becauseI need help with X.
(09:27):
It could be the marketingdepartment.
It could be sales andprocessing, but let people know
where the funding that you'regoing to get is going to go and
actually be vulnerable becauseAnyone that is looking at
stroking a big check going tolook at you.
And if you say, I've goteverything under control,
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (09:46):
Yep.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (09:47):
that is a huge red flag to me.
If, but if instead you say, Hey,I was able to get this going
here.
And just through grit andpassion, we've reached, you
know, 3 million, 7 million,whatever, in sales, I'm looking
for 20 million to put intomanufacturing and to hire an
executive team and to take thethings that I'm not good at off
(10:08):
of my plate.
That's like, I bet someentrepreneurs right now are cold
and clammy and like a little bitlike, gosh, puckered up.
But if you're honest about that,that's where the money comes
from because people want to knowthat they can be helpful and
they want to know that the moneythat they're giving you isn't
just going to company parties,that it's actually being used
(10:29):
for where you need to use it togrow.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (10:31):
It's funny.
You mentioned like cold andclammy and I can imagine some
people I know like absolutelyhaving that reaction.
My reaction when you said I needhelp with and here's where I'm
strong and here's where I need aleadership team and need further
assistance.
I like, like just leaned in andwas like, okay, like tell me
more.
This person's self aware.
Yeah.
This person is a genius in theirfield and they also know what it
(10:53):
takes to get to the next stepand where the funding and where
the focus needs to be.
And it's not all about them.
And, and I kind of haveconversations with founders and
it's like, it is all about youstroke the ego a little bit, but
it's also not all about you.
So let's, let's be realistic.
So there's a, there's a balanceto it, but I love what you said.
And I love there's power in thephrase, you know, I need help
(11:15):
with X, Y, and Z.
I think that's a really powerfulphrase.
What else would you say in termsof like, just broad bros, broad
brush structure of like, okay,someone saying, I have to tell a
story.
I need to be clear.
I need to ask for help.
What are kind of the main chunksof, of how to tell this story?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_1 (11:34):
So.
Emily, do you rememberclubhouse?
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (11:37):
Yeah.
I mean,
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_11 (11:39):
So when clubhouse first started
coming up, I did a founder'sroom crafting stories and I
thought it was going to be twoor three hours.
We did 16 hours straight.
I'm going to take, becausepeople kept coming in and it
actually got, we had a couplethousand people in the room.
We had like something like 12,000 people.
It was one of the biggest.
It was ridiculous, but I keptgoing because I love serving.
(12:02):
Um, I'm going to lay out thesame framework I gave there.
When you're telling a story, wejust talked about how it goes
all over the place and it's thisbig spaghetti ball.
you need to look at is startwith.
Your pain points that caused youto lean in and develop, start
developing or looking for thesolve that you made.
(12:26):
Right.
Um, I'm going to use socks.
I don't know where socks camefrom, but I'm gonna start with
socks, right?
Like lean into that, share someearlier experiences that link to
this.
So I'm going to show you how todo this.
If I'm Saying I needed to createa great pair of socks.
Like every time I put on socks,they kind of had the bacon
around the top where they wereall too stretched out.
(12:48):
They didn't have good colors ordesigns.
And I was like, you know, howhard is it to just make really
great socks?
I don't have to worry aboutthat.
Keep me warm.
They, they wick sweat away andthey're just amazing.
that took me back to mychildhood.
I loved running.
I loved X, Y, Z.
I got bullied by people becauseI liked bright colors.
You're dropping in littledetails that let people know who
(13:11):
you are.
You can drop a few in there thatare endearing.
You can drop a few in there thatwill relate to the person that
you're talking to.
Notice I'm not sharing thingsthat don't link.
This is where we start to, if itdoesn't link directly to the
thing, you need to cut it fromthe story.
(13:32):
I'm not telling stories aboutsitting at the lunch table.
I'm not telling stories about myparents, unless that has
something to do with the story.
The sock, right?
So pain points in the beginningthat led you on this, then start
to go through the journey.
And this is where you actuallywant to talk about your
strengths and your weaknesses.
(13:53):
I was really good at doing this.
So we leaned in, we did this.
I had to figure out how to do X,Y, Z.
This part of the story, I'mgoing to give you some
timeframes.
The first pain piece should beabout 20 percent of how long you
talk.
The next piece of the journey.
Which is what you are on rightnow is going to be somewhere
(14:15):
around 60%.
It usually has four to fivepoints.
We did this, then we did thisand you need to make them flow
together usually by telling anoverall statement.
So then we moved into marketingand then you want to tell two or
three bullet points ofmarketing.
(14:35):
So when we moved into marketing,man, I was like, I don't know
how to do this.
I went and found Jeff and Jeffcame from XYZ company.
We had met at an event and hewas amazing.
We plugged him in and this wasthe result that he got.
concise, but let people knowwhat you did.
Three or four of those.
That's going to take up about 60percent and then the last bit
(14:58):
where you want to go.
Okay, so that brings us to nowhere's our plan moving forward.
You've learned what I'm good atand you've heard what I'm not
good at.
What I need help with is X, Y,Z.
The reason I am here talking toyou is because and do some
research.
This is a asterisk.
Do research on who you're doingthe pitch to.
(15:21):
You can see this on Shark Tank.
good pitches.
They don't just say, Oh, MarkCuban, we'd love to work with
you, Mark.
You're amazing.
They've done research into why,and they know something personal
about Mark that links to theirstory.
more importantly, they know howtheir business will directly
dovetail with Mark's business tomake money.
(15:43):
Or if you look at like, um, ifyou look at when people go to
Damon, they go to Damon becausehe's got experience.
In clothing and retail, but moreimportantly, he knows the grit
of how to do things.
So they'll tie it to his grit,but they really, they're like,
Oh, this would work really wellwith your distribution networks.
(16:04):
That's how you want to end yourpitch and make it about them.
If they're driven by impact,show them how your business will
impact.
If they're driven bychallenging, solving, like
challenging problems, show thema challenging problem.
If they're like whatever they'redriven by, make it about them.
Because point, I think foundersget in an echo chamber
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_09 (16:27):
Oh yes.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (16:28):
they, it all like, they're like, it's
me, it's me, it's me.
And people around them are, areconstantly like feeding into
that.
And.
we can separate ourselves fromour ego, that's where true
growth happens.
Not just internal growth, butexternal growth as well.
emily-sander_1_12-12 (16:46):
Beautiful.
Yeah.
People rewind that and listen tothe structure that Steve just
outlined.
Cause that's really powerful.
Um, in the hero's journey, wetalk about the hero's journey.
Um, who is the hero?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (16:59):
Ooh, this is a great question.
The listener, the listener isthe hero.
If you do this correctly, why doyou love star Wars?
Everybody loves star Wars,right?
Because they become the hero.
Who is Yoda in that he is themaster storyteller notice.
(17:22):
That he is not key character.
The key character is Luke andLuke goes through the same
struggles that you and I have.
Yoda the teacher and our job asthe storyteller is to make them
the star.
So how can, and this is, thisgoes back to linking feeling.
(17:44):
If you're making a pitch infront of somebody, how can you
make them feel like they are thestar versus it's me, me, me.
Because I can, I mean.
I've invested in a fewcompanies, like very small, like
nothing, nothing crazy.
I'm not an angel investor inorder for me to write a check to
support somebody, I have totrust them.
(18:05):
And I have to feel like they,they're not a narcissist putting
it nicely.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (18:10):
Yep.
I love it because yes, justhuman nature.
I won't put it all on founders,just human nature.
We tend to think of ourself asthe hero of everything and it's
really, you can switch thatlens.
Um, and that's what I do incoaching.
Like, look, you're LukeSkywalker.
I'm, I'm Yoda.
I'm your guide.
I will help you, but this isyour story and this is about you
(18:31):
and I want to make sure that youachieve what you want to
achieve.
So if you go into it, that lens,I feel like everything you do.
Changes.
So the content you produce, thedelivery, like your countenance,
just your body language,everything changes.
And people can, again, feel thatdifference.
You mentioned something elsethat was interesting.
(18:51):
If, if you're telling a storyabout the founding team and
perhaps you might have your CTOthere, who've been with you
since the beginning, how wouldyou suggest they.
Incorporate their story.
Or if you're all presentingtogether, how do, how do you do
kind of multi, multi, uh, biggroup presentation?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (19:08):
Sure.
Okay.
So I'm going to go back to theframework that I gave you.
So the 20 percent in thebeginning is on the founder,
because that is Your story ofhow you started, where, where'd
your idea come from?
What problem are you solving?
Why is it tie emotionally toyou?
And hopefully to the investor.
Then when you get in that middlepart, that is the 60%, that's
(19:29):
where you can pull your otherpeople in and they should tell a
similar story.
To the founder story, but itfollows the framework that I
gave you.
So then I went and found Jeffand Jeff, like I need a head of
marketing because I'm, to behonest, I'm horrible at
marketing.
I like to sit down and codethings.
Right.
So I found Jeff, we knew eachother, Jeff, I want to bring you
(19:51):
up here.
Jeff should say why he wasattracted to the company
emotionally.
Now, you don't say that bysaying I was emotionally
attracted.
You say, you know, I foundSteve, like Steven, I met and
his idea was so good andwatching his passion for it and
how he refused to take no for ananswer.
And he started building this.
(20:12):
And then he talked to me and Iwas like, you know, I could
really plug in and help here.
And Like, I don't really careabout socks, but I care about
changing the world.
And we're doing that through X,Y, Z.
Right.
That's why I'm here.
And that's why I'm not going toleave.
That's the, like, you can't sayI'm not going to leave, one of
the questions that founders haveis how, how strongly woven
(20:35):
together is your team?
Why is your team there?
And you want them to, to.
Put that in the conversation.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (20:41):
Yeah, for sure.
And I think, you know, you'vestressed that there's a
sequence, everything shouldlink, so everyone should know
their part of this pitch andthis presentation and know where
to come in and then where toexit stage left and let Steve
back on the main stage.
So I think all of that, not inlike a.
Overly choreographedmanufactured fake way, but just
in a, like, we have our shittogether.
(21:03):
And like, here's the story thatwe're going to tell you.
The other component to this is Ioften coach people who need like
a 15 to 20 minute pitch whenit's that initial.
Call and then a two hour one,then like a four hour kind of
half day.
Um, like let's go into all thedetails.
So you mentioned before, likedon't rabbit hole into all these
(21:24):
details, which I would agreewith at the first and probably
second, um, conversations.
But once you get into that, it'skind of like an iceberg, right?
Tip of the iceberg, secondlayer, then the whole, whole big
thing.
So what would you say in termsof how do you craft like those
different segments?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_11 (21:41):
So what we just went through is
like a 20 minute to, I would saymaybe like 45 minute hour, like
if you're going to a lunchmeeting, right.
Or if you're, if you're going tothe office and you're given an
hour, that's what you want todo.
That's the first level.
The second level that you aretalking about is where you
actually have to show them somedetails.
So here I would show that youhave had, and this is going to
(22:05):
be less story, although youshould still use emotion.
Okay.
And it's going to be about,okay, so this is where we're at
in our company.
How did we get here?
And you want to show them howyou solve problems, how you
start, like how you, let's goback to socks, right?
So we started with socks.
I had a few, I had 20, 000 comefrom China.
(22:28):
I needed marketing.
Where do we start withmarketing?
We had a 10, 000 budget.
Here's what we sat down and cameup with.
Jeff.
And this is where Jeff shouldstep up and take the lead,
right?
us through how he built themarketing, why he built it.
And you have, this is, I'm goingto challenge you all to be
vulnerable again, show themistakes that you made and show
(22:50):
how you solve them.
Because that again, gives the,the person writing the check
confidence that you can takefeedback.
Nothing is worse and nothingwill tank a business faster than
somebody who makes a mistake anddoes not learn from it or
correct it instead just throwsmore money at it or tries to
bust
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_09 (23:10):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Don't do that.
steve-werner_1_1 (23:14):
Unfortunately, I, was a comment.
going to throw this out.
It doesn't have directly do astory, but that founders and
entrepreneurs come frombackgrounds of trauma because we
are comfortable thriving in thechaos, I, I, somebody told me I
(23:35):
will.
I went through and made a listand I can't find one that's not
one of the challenges that comeswith that is being vulnerable
and admitting that we don't knoweverything and that we have to
move through that.
That was something like I lookback at my journey and that was
a big turning point for me wheremy life got a whole lot easier.
(23:56):
Tim Ferriss, I, when I tell thestory, I was talking about Tim
Ferriss when he did brainquicken, he was working 80 hours
a week.
He was ready to self implodebecause he was the bottleneck
holding onto everything when hereleased it all said, I need
help.
That's when his life like 50 X.
(24:17):
Um, so going back to thestorytelling, this is, you need
in the deeper dive in thatmiddle layer of the iceberg.
This is where you need to showthem those things.
Now I would not get superdetailed.
The super detailed piece comesat the end when they're actually
doing due diligence.
So now you've gone through thefirst piece, they're interested,
(24:39):
they're leaning forward.
They're like, okay, let's go alittle bit deeper.
Okay.
Then you get into that middlelevel, you want to show some
details, but not crazy, crazydetails.
last piece is like duediligence.
Okay, we're going to sit down,we're going to open our books,
we're going to show you exactlywhat we did.
You have to make sure that partthree backs up to part two.
(25:00):
Like if you're going to tell astory about Jeff running 10 K
and beta ads and then they getto do diligence and they're
like, Oh, you spent 500.
I thought you spent if itdoesn't line up, that's a huge
red flag.
So
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (25:14):
The story has to build on itself.
Yeah.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2 (25:18):
Correct.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (25:20):
Well, I mean, I think there's so much
in what you just said there.
The reason I say like, it is allabout the founder and it's not
is because at a certain point itwas all about them and they had
to figure stuff out and it hadto be all about them and to your
point, they have to be able tomake that switch.
And when I've seen, you know, VCand PE kind of investments
implode is when the foundercan't make that switch.
(25:42):
And I've worked with PE firmswhere it's like, we have
contingency plans.
If you can't make that switch,so we want you to be able to
make that transition.
But if you can't, then we have ateam ready to go.
And I've been on that team readyto go.
Inherent in all of this, I thinkwe're talking about building
trust because if I'm going togive you 20 million dollars.
(26:03):
I better trust you like with mykids and with my dog and with my
house and all these things andthe, the vulnerability you're
talking about and the selfawareness you're talking about
and they like, Hey, we effedthis up and here's how we solved
our way out of that.
Here's how we think about thingsthat makes me trust you more.
We're like, okay, you can.
(26:25):
Come clean on your mistakes andI know how you think and how you
approach different challenges.
And so that makes me trust youmore.
You're not hiding, hidinganything on me.
You're just being transparent.
So is there any other tools orstrategies you would say to
build trust and just build that,uh, relationship with, with the
person you're speaking to?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_1 (26:45):
Um, they're, they're, they're going
to sound mundane, but they're100 percent true.
Uh, if you read the book, thefour agreements be impeccable
with your word.
this is something I had tolearn.
Uh, when I transitioned, I mean,um, 12 years ago, I worked
resorts when I went out on myown and started my own business.
(27:07):
I had to learn to not overcommit to things.
It's not that I wanted to tellsomebody something and not do
it.
It was, I wanted to say yes toeverything, which led to me
making commitments that Iwouldn't keep.
I would forget about most ofthem, but every once in a while,
you know, something would showup and, and I'd be like, I can't
do it.
(27:27):
When you're talking to people,This goes right in line with the
vulnerability piece.
If you say you're going to dosomething, do it.
If you're, if you schedule ameeting beyond time, I can't, I
mean, you and I both spend a lotof time on podcasts.
I can't tell you how many peopleshow up eight, 10 minutes late,
like a minute.
I can understand because you'regoing from call to call,
(27:49):
apologize, own it, move forward.
But people that show up 10 to 15minutes late to every meeting,
That's that is a, that would bea red flag to me as somebody
investing personally, I can'tspeak for everybody out there.
Um, but be impeccable with yourword.
I think that is one of thebiggest things.
(28:10):
And if you do make a mistake,own it right away.
Don't apologize.
Don't don't make excuses.
Just own it.
forward and don't do it again.
That would, that would be one.
Um, the second one is beinterested, do your research on
the people that you're pitching,not to like, you can tell the
(28:32):
people that come on shark tankagain, that just want to like,
Oh, Mark, you in, Oh, Kevin.
like, you can tell the peoplethat actually took the time
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (28:41):
Yeah.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (28:41):
learn about them as a person.
Cause at the end of the day, theperson writing you the check is
they're going to embed with you.
And you want to make sure
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (28:52):
It's a marriage.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (28:54):
yeah, like might be able to write the
check, but if they're not theright fit, you will do better by
saying no.
Or, I mean, this goes for themas well.
If they're sitting there lookingat, at a business and they're
like, this business has all theright things, but I don't vibe
with the founders or I don'ttrust the founders that you
(29:14):
should not stroke that check.
Like, don't, don't sign it.
Like it's not the deal of theyear comes along every day.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (29:23):
Yeah.
I've spoken to so many foundersand my team and I have had
candid discussions with founderswhere like, look, there's
different deals on the table foryou.
And you might take.
Less of a monetary value becauseit's a better fit and they
understand your industry.
They understand you.
It's just a complimentary thing.
You're going to have to spendthe next, you know, two, three,
(29:43):
you know, five, seven years withthis, these people, you better
like them a lot and be able tospend an 18 hour flight to Dubai
where you're going to have totravel to regularly with this
person.
So, you know, take the, take thehit on the, Top number, but
overall that experience and thepotential for the valuation
growth goes up.
So I would agree with that.
(30:04):
Um, a hundred percent.
Um, Oh my gosh, there's so much,there's like fireworks in my
brain off of all the things thatyou've said.
How would you, how would youguide people towards the Q& A
portion?
So you give your presentation,you're vulnerable, you say you
need help, you have thissequence, you're crisp, you're
clean, and then they go okay,and they have some questions.
(30:25):
How would you, just some, whatare some important things to
keep in mind at the Q& Asection?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_11 (30:31):
So two things, maybe three.
The first one is take whateverthe hardest questions, you know,
they're going to ask, build theminto your pitch or at the end of
the pitch, take them head on.
Hey, what's going through yourhead is probably X, Y, Z.
(30:51):
If you do that and you, youdon't have to go in again, don't
make excuses for it.
Just say, Hey, what's goingthrough your head is X, Y, Z.
Let me tell you how we thinkabout that.
That shows that you're aware ifthey ask a difficult, like if
you take the hardest questionshead on, that will usually
liquidate 90 percent of thequestions.
(31:13):
they'll, they'll be like, Ohman, they thought about this and
they know their business insideand out.
Take notes.
If you're doing your first pitchand they start asking hard
questions, we'll go into what todo then.
But take notes of those andbuild those for next time.
So that you're ready, like,don't wait for them to ask.
Um, there's an idea calleddamaging admissions.
(31:34):
So damaging admissions is athought process of if I tell you
something that I have donewrong, you will trust me more.
And this plays into that.
If you If, if you just take ithead on, it builds so much
trust.
If you, if they ask a hardquestion and the answer is
something they are not going tolike, you have to be honest can,
(31:59):
you can frame it by saying, HeyEmily, you're probably not going
to like this.
This might be a little bitdifficult, but we don't want to
hide anything from you.
This works in relationships
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (32:08):
Yes,
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (32:09):
well.
If you're, if you're fightingwith your significant other, or
there's something like sittingon the couch between you, that's
what.
Me and my ex called it, it worksreally well to say, you know,
Hey, actually your name wasEmily.
Um, Hey Emily, um, look, thismight be kind of an
uncomfortable conversation, butI just want to take a deep
(32:29):
breath.
something we need to talk about.
Let's unpack it.
That's that gives them a littlebit of warning.
It primes their nervous systemand it kind of makes it a lot
easier than just slamming theminto a brick wall.
Right.
Um, so that if they ask adifficult question, do that.
The other thing that I wouldtell you, um, my very first
(32:52):
mentor had me do this and itwill serve you well in all
facets of life, get index cards.
And you write, when somebodyasks you a question about
something or somebody, there'sa, uh, objection you have to
overcome.
If you're, if you're asalesperson or a belief, like a
false belief that you need tochange in somebody.
(33:14):
Write out what that is, thenwrite your bullet point story
around it.
People hate to be told things.
They put up walls, right?
And they push back even if theyknow it's the right thing.
So if instead you lead with astory and then tell them the
thing, because the story getsthem to lean in and kind of like
sneak attacks them like Trojanhorse style.
(33:36):
Now you can tell them the thingand they will fully accept it.
So how do you use this inquestions?
Answer, you can give them thestraightforward answer.
Your story should not be long,but give them a very short story
that frames what it is.
I've done that countless timeson this podcast.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (33:57):
All right.
So Q and A, I love that whereyou just hit it head on.
Um, and I, I remember, I forgetthe exact, uh, the gentleman's
name or the exact scenario, buthe, he, he was presenting to us
and he clearly got a question hehadn't thought through.
Um, he was very prepared ingeneral, but he hadn't, he
hadn't gotten this question andhe paused and just literally
(34:17):
like thought about it.
And then he was like, that's agreat question.
Can we just have a conversationaround this?
And here's what I'm thinking.
What do you think about that?
And it was amazing.
Like, it was like, we'reactually having a real dialogue
instead of like, okay, you'representing, I'm going to ask you
QA, everyone just put theirguards down to your point and
just had a conversation aboutthis problem and how we would do
(34:38):
it together.
And that was like, literally, Idon't remember anything else
about this presentation.
I remember like what he waswearing and like the room we
were in and like the fact thathe.
Was like, let me pause and Idon't know, but let me just have
a conversation around this.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_110 (34:53):
I mean, that is, is a phenomenal
way to do it.
Um, and you can't do that onevery question, but it's, it
goes back to you're being honestinstead of trying to, you know,
puff up your chest and makesomething up that makes you
sound good.
I don't, I don't know.
(35:13):
I, I hadn't really thought aboutit, but let's just talk through
it.
Like all the negative energygoes and then you're
collaborating with the personthat you hope writes you a
check, which is not like, that'sthe best way to show your
skills.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (35:29):
Yeah.
Steve, you've covered so muchand it's been amazing.
Anything else big that you werelike, Oh, people need to know
about this.
If we're talking about thisstuff, they also need to know
about this.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_1 (35:39):
Um, I think, I mean, we covered, we
covered a ton.
I will say one of the thingsthat I did early on in my
career, I still do sometimesbring somebody a cup of coffee
is the easiest way.
I mean, depending where youlive, if you're near them, if
you need to talk to somebody,even if it's outside of doing a
(35:59):
pitch, like doing the actualpitch, if you want to do an
elevator pitch to somebody,taking people coffee or donuts
or muffins.
And make sure they eat thatstuff, right?
If they're gluten free or theydon't eat sugar, take them
something.
They can eat that shows that youthought about them.
You can usually get five minuteswith somebody.
done that a hundred plus timesthroughout my career.
(36:22):
If you're listening to this andyou're trying to design this
big, crazy pitch, elevatorpitch.
Is 30 seconds or less don't talkso fast.
They can't hear you instead, getthem to lean in because you
connect with them on anemotional level.
that's, that would be my, my tipto get in the door with people.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (36:41):
Get some coffee, get some donuts, or
if they're like a health nut,get a veggie tray, whatever,
whatever they like.
Open the conversation with that.
So Steve, we talked about thefact that you're this, Massive
director and orchestrator ofevents, but you know, who do you
help and how do you help them?
What else are you up to thatpeople should know about
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (37:00):
Yeah.
The, I mean, I stay very firmlyin my lane.
Um, we, So people who do salesevents, events that are built to
sell something from stage, thatis 80 percent of what we do.
So I work as a consultant.
I sit down with them.
We take the end goal.
We build the whole event aroundthat.
We help source speakers.
(37:21):
We bring the right people in.
I make sure that story arc thatwe talk there is there start to
finish.
Um, I will usually MC theevents.
The MC is actually the secretweapon for sales because the
person on stage, they'reexpecting to sell the MC is
there to break false beliefs,overcome objections.
And then we do what's called therepitch at the very end of the
(37:42):
event, which is an emotionallytriggering speech.
That gets the people that wereon the fence to go by.
Um, I love doing that stuff.
other thing that we do is whatwe just talked about.
I help people build their coretalk, whether that is a Ted
style talk or whether that is apitch talk, we jump in and we
just help, and I do it by askingquestions and getting to know
(38:05):
the person and what they want atthe end of it, because it's not
one size fits all.
emily-sander_1_12-12 (38:09):
beautiful?
I wish every conference wasorchestrated by you because that
sounds amazing Um, if peoplewant to know more or like yep,
please sign me up.
I want to get in touch withsteve Where is the best place
for them to do that
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (38:21):
Sure.
Stephenphilipwerner.
com is my main site.
If you're just looking toconnect with me, you can go to
steve.
coffee, C O F F E E, and thatwill get you, um, we have a
couple freebies there, and thenyou can also book a call
directly with me.
You can also book one on thewebsite.
Again, it's Stephenphilip, P H IL L I P, Werner, W E R N E R.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (38:46):
and we will have all of that
information in the show notes asalways steve Thank you so much
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_11 (38:50):
It is my pleasure.
Thanks, Emily.
My guest today is Steve Werner and
he is here with a super clearhat on.
It says Clarity, which I love.
Uh, Steve, welcome to the show.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (00:36):
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
I am so excited, Emily,
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (00:39):
Steve and I are doing a pod swap.
So I was on his show.
He was kind enough to have me onand we just got to chat chatting
afterwards and usually the hostand guests will kind of chit
chat afterwards.
We spoke for a good, like.
25, 30 minutes afterwards.
Cause we were just clicking on awhole bunch of things.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_110 (00:55):
I remember, when we were chatting,
like there is so much, um, andwe were, we were chatting around
how to help founders fund, likecapital raising.
And then that led into theconversation all around chief of
staff and how that shouldpossibly be their first hire.
It was so interesting there.
I actually have a ton of notesfrom that conversation.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (01:16):
And we were also talking about the
fact that you, would you sayproduce or direct these multi
day events and where you speakto a founder, a company, and you
really.
Pull out their narrative andtheir story arc they want to
tell and what they want to getto by the end.
And then you bring in differentspeakers, you set up different
(01:37):
panels, you sequence the wholething, and then you coach the
speakers on how to do that.
And I thought that wasfascinating.
Um, just you do the wholeproduction of it, but maybe just
give folks a brief introductionof yourself and what you've been
up to and what you're doing now.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (01:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks.
Um, so it's not a meetingplanner or it's not an event
planner.
That's somebody who handles thetechnical details.
Like what's the soundstage looklike?
What's the audio.
What I look at is we've all beento one of those events where
people are just leaving the roomor they're on their phone,
they're on their laptop.
They're not really payingattention to what's going on
(02:10):
because the speakers don't linktogether.
The speakers aren't that greatat presenting, right?
Somebody probably told them theyhad to be up there.
They've got slides with 251.
Words on it that you can't
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (02:22):
No.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_1 (02:23):
and like speaker number one, like
you're kind of into what he'sdoing, but then speaker number
two goes a completely differentdirection.
And it's like, these events areexpensive.
Uh, an event budget can beanywhere from 250, 000 to, we
did an event once with like a 4million budget.
If you're spending that much onthe event, it makes sense.
(02:43):
So we call it a story arc.
It's a very clean one, step two,step three.
It starts with why are you here?
What's the big outcome?
Stretch the gap, show peoplewhere they're going to end up,
then have speakers lined up thattake them on a journey.
If you do the event correctly,people should be on their edge
of their seats, excited, full ofenergy.
(03:04):
They shouldn't even want to pickup their phone or their laptop.
Learn That comes down then toonce you have that arc laid out,
how do you work with eachspeaker to make sure that their
speech grabs the audience'sattention is easy to follow,
easy to understand, andentertaining as well as teaches
a golden nugget.
(03:25):
That's what I do.
So we look at, we sit down withthe event plant, like the event
host, who's holding it, we findout what their end goal is,
what's the big reason you'reholding this event, and then we
craft the whole event around itso that you get maximum impact.
That's why you're holding anevent, whether it's a sales
event, your company is sellingsomething from the event, that's
(03:47):
80 percent of our events.
And then.
The other 20 percent is like theinternal company event company's
paying to put it on and they're,they're hoping that their
employees will become motivated,that they'll come together with
a good corporate culture.
But a lot of times that doesn'thappen.
So where I come in is to makesure that this is all planned
(04:09):
out well and then we help withthe marketing and getting
everything out front, whetherthat's the internal event,
internal marketing or externalmarketing to fill the event so
that you maximize sales.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (04:22):
Yes.
Beautiful.
So you're, I mean, I think of itas like the director or the
orchestrator of the whole thing,kind of like strings and drums
and all this stuff comingtogether to a beautiful
symphony.
And I, I've spoken about, youknow, go into a presentation or
an event and say, what do youwant people to feel, think and
do by the end, and then buildyour event towards that.
(04:42):
And it sounds like you do thatbeautifully.
And I like the fact that, youknow, by the way.
People don't get motivated orexcited or are driven to action
by reading.
A great wall of text verbatimoff of a slide.
So if you take nothing else awayfrom this, just please don't do
that.
Cause that's, that's not whatyou want.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (05:01):
that is okay.
So you said two things there.
I'm going to start with theslide.
Your slide should have most ofyour slides should have no more
than 12 words per slide.
Some of your slides can have alittle bit more.
The most you should have is 30words per slide.
And if you are reading them toyour point, Emily, if you are
(05:24):
reading your slide, you might aswell.
tell people to leave the room.
They can read the slidethemselves.
What you actually want to do ishave them paying attention to
you.
The slide should have a bulletpoint and then you should be
expounding the slide so thatpeople are paying attention to
you.
And this actually dovetails intothe first thing that you said,
(05:46):
which I love so much.
It is about the feeling thatpeople get.
I want listeners, anyonelistening to this, just think
about the last event that youwent to and your favorite
presentation.
You can probably only tell me abullet point or two of what you
got, but you can tell me howthat guy made you feel.
(06:08):
And that's what drives action isfeeling and trust.
That's what you can do fromstage.
And instead we see these peopletrying to put 800 words on a
slide and cram everything theyhave in their brain into a 45
minute presentation, which neverworks well.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (06:24):
And by the way, if someone remembers
how you made them feel and onemain point from your
presentation, you've won likewinner, winner, dinner.
Yeah.
Okay.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (06:34):
Yes.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (06:34):
Okay, so I wanted to get that out
there because I love how you,you know, we talk about event
planning and event planners aregreat and they do a fantastic
job and you're just taking thisto a whole different dimension
with what you're doing and wetalked a lot about how we would
prep speakers and differentthings because People come out
this from different angles andwe can talk about that later in
the show but what I want to getto is If we're talking to a
(06:56):
founder, or perhaps a chief ofstaff who is prepping the
founder or perhaps themanagement team for investor
pitch decks, and how do theycraft that story?
So, to me, there's kind of aKind of a couple of story arcs
happening in parallel, which isthe founder story arc and the
company story arc.
(07:17):
And when I speak to foundersabout this, um, it's, it's about
you, but it's not about you andthe story you want to tell.
It has to be open ended at theend because there's a next
chapter that you want to be ableto tell if you get this next
round of funding.
So that's kind of the, the verybasic structure I tee people up
(07:39):
with, but how would you go aboutkind of coaching a founder for a
compelling pitch deck?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_11 (07:45):
So there's, I'll, I'll lay out some
of the things that I see thatpeople do that are mistakes that
I think actually hurt them andcause them to lose the offer,
right?
The first one is we, when we tryto tell our own story, It goes
all over the
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (08:03):
Yeah.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (08:03):
It's a big, crazy drawing that makes
no sense.
And if you say that to somebody,you are not, you are not in
like, they don't have confidencein what you are going to say
next or what you're going to do.
If you can't be clear wellformulated, They're not going to
(08:24):
have confidence in you.
Now, the second place thatpeople go wrong is they don't
tell the story.
They tell a 32nd story and thenthey jump into really high level
and deep details of thebusiness.
That is not what you want to doin a pitch deck.
One of the things that I love,um, I always point people to
(08:44):
good and bad pitches on sharktank.
You want to To endear people,you have to be Chris, you have
to have some charisma.
You have to show them why theyshould trust you.
And you have to be, this is thelast piece where I see a lot of
people be, have a challenge.
You have to be vulnerable.
And this is actually where theopen ended piece comes from.
(09:06):
If you say, Hey, I started thissock company and I love
designing things.
I love the colors.
I love great people.
and you have reasons for thatbuilt into your story and then
you get somewhere towards theend and you say, okay, so the
reason that I'm here is becauseI need help with X.
(09:27):
It could be the marketingdepartment.
It could be sales andprocessing, but let people know
where the funding that you'regoing to get is going to go and
actually be vulnerable becauseAnyone that is looking at
stroking a big check going tolook at you.
And if you say, I've goteverything under control,
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (09:46):
Yep.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (09:47):
that is a huge red flag to me.
If, but if instead you say, Hey,I was able to get this going
here.
And just through grit andpassion, we've reached, you
know, 3 million, 7 million,whatever, in sales, I'm looking
for 20 million to put intomanufacturing and to hire an
executive team and to take thethings that I'm not good at off
(10:08):
of my plate.
That's like, I bet someentrepreneurs right now are cold
and clammy and like a little bitlike, gosh, puckered up.
But if you're honest about that,that's where the money comes
from because people want to knowthat they can be helpful and
they want to know that the moneythat they're giving you isn't
just going to company parties,that it's actually being used
(10:29):
for where you need to use it togrow.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (10:31):
It's funny.
You mentioned like cold andclammy and I can imagine some
people I know like absolutelyhaving that reaction.
My reaction when you said I needhelp with and here's where I'm
strong and here's where I need aleadership team and need further
assistance.
I like, like just leaned in andwas like, okay, like tell me
more.
This person's self aware.
Yeah.
This person is a genius in theirfield and they also know what it
(10:53):
takes to get to the next stepand where the funding and where
the focus needs to be.
And it's not all about them.
And, and I kind of haveconversations with founders and
it's like, it is all about youstroke the ego a little bit, but
it's also not all about you.
So let's, let's be realistic.
So there's a, there's a balanceto it, but I love what you said.
And I love there's power in thephrase, you know, I need help
(11:15):
with X, Y, and Z.
I think that's a really powerfulphrase.
What else would you say in termsof like, just broad bros, broad
brush structure of like, okay,someone saying, I have to tell a
story.
I need to be clear.
I need to ask for help.
What are kind of the main chunksof, of how to tell this story?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_1 (11:34):
So.
Emily, do you rememberclubhouse?
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (11:37):
Yeah.
I mean,
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_11 (11:39):
So when clubhouse first started
coming up, I did a founder'sroom crafting stories and I
thought it was going to be twoor three hours.
We did 16 hours straight.
I'm going to take, becausepeople kept coming in and it
actually got, we had a couplethousand people in the room.
We had like something like 12,000 people.
It was one of the biggest.
It was ridiculous, but I keptgoing because I love serving.
(12:02):
Um, I'm going to lay out thesame framework I gave there.
When you're telling a story, wejust talked about how it goes
all over the place and it's thisbig spaghetti ball.
you need to look at is startwith.
Your pain points that caused youto lean in and develop, start
developing or looking for thesolve that you made.
(12:26):
Right.
Um, I'm going to use socks.
I don't know where socks camefrom, but I'm gonna start with
socks, right?
Like lean into that, share someearlier experiences that link to
this.
So I'm going to show you how todo this.
If I'm Saying I needed to createa great pair of socks.
Like every time I put on socks,they kind of had the bacon
around the top where they wereall too stretched out.
(12:48):
They didn't have good colors ordesigns.
And I was like, you know, howhard is it to just make really
great socks?
I don't have to worry aboutthat.
Keep me warm.
They, they wick sweat away andthey're just amazing.
that took me back to mychildhood.
I loved running.
I loved X, Y, Z.
I got bullied by people becauseI liked bright colors.
You're dropping in littledetails that let people know who
(13:11):
you are.
You can drop a few in there thatare endearing.
You can drop a few in there thatwill relate to the person that
you're talking to.
Notice I'm not sharing thingsthat don't link.
This is where we start to, if itdoesn't link directly to the
thing, you need to cut it fromthe story.
(13:32):
I'm not telling stories aboutsitting at the lunch table.
I'm not telling stories about myparents, unless that has
something to do with the story.
The sock, right?
So pain points in the beginningthat led you on this, then start
to go through the journey.
And this is where you actuallywant to talk about your
strengths and your weaknesses.
(13:53):
I was really good at doing this.
So we leaned in, we did this.
I had to figure out how to do X,Y, Z.
This part of the story, I'mgoing to give you some
timeframes.
The first pain piece should beabout 20 percent of how long you
talk.
The next piece of the journey.
Which is what you are on rightnow is going to be somewhere
(14:15):
around 60%.
It usually has four to fivepoints.
We did this, then we did thisand you need to make them flow
together usually by telling anoverall statement.
So then we moved into marketingand then you want to tell two or
three bullet points ofmarketing.
(14:35):
So when we moved into marketing,man, I was like, I don't know
how to do this.
I went and found Jeff and Jeffcame from XYZ company.
We had met at an event and hewas amazing.
We plugged him in and this wasthe result that he got.
concise, but let people knowwhat you did.
Three or four of those.
That's going to take up about 60percent and then the last bit
(14:58):
where you want to go.
Okay, so that brings us to nowhere's our plan moving forward.
You've learned what I'm good atand you've heard what I'm not
good at.
What I need help with is X, Y,Z.
The reason I am here talking toyou is because and do some
research.
This is a asterisk.
Do research on who you're doingthe pitch to.
(15:21):
You can see this on Shark Tank.
good pitches.
They don't just say, Oh, MarkCuban, we'd love to work with
you, Mark.
You're amazing.
They've done research into why,and they know something personal
about Mark that links to theirstory.
more importantly, they know howtheir business will directly
dovetail with Mark's business tomake money.
(15:43):
Or if you look at like, um, ifyou look at when people go to
Damon, they go to Damon becausehe's got experience.
In clothing and retail, but moreimportantly, he knows the grit
of how to do things.
So they'll tie it to his grit,but they really, they're like,
Oh, this would work really wellwith your distribution networks.
(16:04):
That's how you want to end yourpitch and make it about them.
If they're driven by impact,show them how your business will
impact.
If they're driven bychallenging, solving, like
challenging problems, show thema challenging problem.
If they're like whatever they'redriven by, make it about them.
Because point, I think foundersget in an echo chamber
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_09 (16:27):
Oh yes.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (16:28):
they, it all like, they're like, it's
me, it's me, it's me.
And people around them are, areconstantly like feeding into
that.
And.
we can separate ourselves fromour ego, that's where true
growth happens.
Not just internal growth, butexternal growth as well.
emily-sander_1_12-12 (16:46):
Beautiful.
Yeah.
People rewind that and listen tothe structure that Steve just
outlined.
Cause that's really powerful.
Um, in the hero's journey, wetalk about the hero's journey.
Um, who is the hero?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_ (16:59):
Ooh, this is a great question.
The listener, the listener isthe hero.
If you do this correctly, why doyou love star Wars?
Everybody loves star Wars,right?
Because they become the hero.
Who is Yoda in that he is themaster storyteller notice.
(17:22):
That he is not key character.
The key character is Luke andLuke goes through the same
struggles that you and I have.
Yoda the teacher and our job asthe storyteller is to make them
the star.
So how can, and this is, thisgoes back to linking feeling.
(17:44):
If you're making a pitch infront of somebody, how can you
make them feel like they are thestar versus it's me, me, me.
Because I can, I mean.
I've invested in a fewcompanies, like very small, like
nothing, nothing crazy.
I'm not an angel investor inorder for me to write a check to
support somebody, I have totrust them.
(18:05):
And I have to feel like they,they're not a narcissist putting
it nicely.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (18:10):
Yep.
I love it because yes, justhuman nature.
I won't put it all on founders,just human nature.
We tend to think of ourself asthe hero of everything and it's
really, you can switch thatlens.
Um, and that's what I do incoaching.
Like, look, you're LukeSkywalker.
I'm, I'm Yoda.
I'm your guide.
I will help you, but this isyour story and this is about you
(18:31):
and I want to make sure that youachieve what you want to
achieve.
So if you go into it, that lens,I feel like everything you do.
Changes.
So the content you produce, thedelivery, like your countenance,
just your body language,everything changes.
And people can, again, feel thatdifference.
You mentioned something elsethat was interesting.
(18:51):
If, if you're telling a storyabout the founding team and
perhaps you might have your CTOthere, who've been with you
since the beginning, how wouldyou suggest they.
Incorporate their story.
Or if you're all presentingtogether, how do, how do you do
kind of multi, multi, uh, biggroup presentation?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (19:08):
Sure.
Okay.
So I'm going to go back to theframework that I gave you.
So the 20 percent in thebeginning is on the founder,
because that is Your story ofhow you started, where, where'd
your idea come from?
What problem are you solving?
Why is it tie emotionally toyou?
And hopefully to the investor.
Then when you get in that middlepart, that is the 60%, that's
(19:29):
where you can pull your otherpeople in and they should tell a
similar story.
To the founder story, but itfollows the framework that I
gave you.
So then I went and found Jeffand Jeff, like I need a head of
marketing because I'm, to behonest, I'm horrible at
marketing.
I like to sit down and codethings.
Right.
So I found Jeff, we knew eachother, Jeff, I want to bring you
(19:51):
up here.
Jeff should say why he wasattracted to the company
emotionally.
Now, you don't say that bysaying I was emotionally
attracted.
You say, you know, I foundSteve, like Steven, I met and
his idea was so good andwatching his passion for it and
how he refused to take no for ananswer.
And he started building this.
(20:12):
And then he talked to me and Iwas like, you know, I could
really plug in and help here.
And Like, I don't really careabout socks, but I care about
changing the world.
And we're doing that through X,Y, Z.
Right.
That's why I'm here.
And that's why I'm not going toleave.
That's the, like, you can't sayI'm not going to leave, one of
the questions that founders haveis how, how strongly woven
(20:35):
together is your team?
Why is your team there?
And you want them to, to.
Put that in the conversation.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (20:41):
Yeah, for sure.
And I think, you know, you'vestressed that there's a
sequence, everything shouldlink, so everyone should know
their part of this pitch andthis presentation and know where
to come in and then where toexit stage left and let Steve
back on the main stage.
So I think all of that, not inlike a.
Overly choreographedmanufactured fake way, but just
in a, like, we have our shittogether.
(21:03):
And like, here's the story thatwe're going to tell you.
The other component to this is Ioften coach people who need like
a 15 to 20 minute pitch whenit's that initial.
Call and then a two hour one,then like a four hour kind of
half day.
Um, like let's go into all thedetails.
So you mentioned before, likedon't rabbit hole into all these
(21:24):
details, which I would agreewith at the first and probably
second, um, conversations.
But once you get into that, it'skind of like an iceberg, right?
Tip of the iceberg, secondlayer, then the whole, whole big
thing.
So what would you say in termsof how do you craft like those
different segments?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_11 (21:41):
So what we just went through is
like a 20 minute to, I would saymaybe like 45 minute hour, like
if you're going to a lunchmeeting, right.
Or if you're, if you're going tothe office and you're given an
hour, that's what you want todo.
That's the first level.
The second level that you aretalking about is where you
actually have to show them somedetails.
So here I would show that youhave had, and this is going to
(22:05):
be less story, although youshould still use emotion.
Okay.
And it's going to be about,okay, so this is where we're at
in our company.
How did we get here?
And you want to show them howyou solve problems, how you
start, like how you, let's goback to socks, right?
So we started with socks.
I had a few, I had 20, 000 comefrom China.
(22:28):
I needed marketing.
Where do we start withmarketing?
We had a 10, 000 budget.
Here's what we sat down and cameup with.
Jeff.
And this is where Jeff shouldstep up and take the lead,
right?
us through how he built themarketing, why he built it.
And you have, this is, I'm goingto challenge you all to be
vulnerable again, show themistakes that you made and show
(22:50):
how you solve them.
Because that again, gives the,the person writing the check
confidence that you can takefeedback.
Nothing is worse and nothingwill tank a business faster than
somebody who makes a mistake anddoes not learn from it or
correct it instead just throwsmore money at it or tries to
bust
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_09 (23:10):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Don't do that.
steve-werner_1_1 (23:14):
Unfortunately, I, was a comment.
going to throw this out.
It doesn't have directly do astory, but that founders and
entrepreneurs come frombackgrounds of trauma because we
are comfortable thriving in thechaos, I, I, somebody told me I
(23:35):
will.
I went through and made a listand I can't find one that's not
one of the challenges that comeswith that is being vulnerable
and admitting that we don't knoweverything and that we have to
move through that.
That was something like I lookback at my journey and that was
a big turning point for me wheremy life got a whole lot easier.
(23:56):
Tim Ferriss, I, when I tell thestory, I was talking about Tim
Ferriss when he did brainquicken, he was working 80 hours
a week.
He was ready to self implodebecause he was the bottleneck
holding onto everything when hereleased it all said, I need
help.
That's when his life like 50 X.
(24:17):
Um, so going back to thestorytelling, this is, you need
in the deeper dive in thatmiddle layer of the iceberg.
This is where you need to showthem those things.
Now I would not get superdetailed.
The super detailed piece comesat the end when they're actually
doing due diligence.
So now you've gone through thefirst piece, they're interested,
(24:39):
they're leaning forward.
They're like, okay, let's go alittle bit deeper.
Okay.
Then you get into that middlelevel, you want to show some
details, but not crazy, crazydetails.
last piece is like duediligence.
Okay, we're going to sit down,we're going to open our books,
we're going to show you exactlywhat we did.
You have to make sure that partthree backs up to part two.
(25:00):
Like if you're going to tell astory about Jeff running 10 K
and beta ads and then they getto do diligence and they're
like, Oh, you spent 500.
I thought you spent if itdoesn't line up, that's a huge
red flag.
So
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (25:14):
The story has to build on itself.
Yeah.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2 (25:18):
Correct.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (25:20):
Well, I mean, I think there's so much
in what you just said there.
The reason I say like, it is allabout the founder and it's not
is because at a certain point itwas all about them and they had
to figure stuff out and it hadto be all about them and to your
point, they have to be able tomake that switch.
And when I've seen, you know, VCand PE kind of investments
implode is when the foundercan't make that switch.
(25:42):
And I've worked with PE firmswhere it's like, we have
contingency plans.
If you can't make that switch,so we want you to be able to
make that transition.
But if you can't, then we have ateam ready to go.
And I've been on that team readyto go.
Inherent in all of this, I thinkwe're talking about building
trust because if I'm going togive you 20 million dollars.
(26:03):
I better trust you like with mykids and with my dog and with my
house and all these things andthe, the vulnerability you're
talking about and the selfawareness you're talking about
and they like, Hey, we effedthis up and here's how we solved
our way out of that.
Here's how we think about thingsthat makes me trust you more.
We're like, okay, you can.
(26:25):
Come clean on your mistakes andI know how you think and how you
approach different challenges.
And so that makes me trust youmore.
You're not hiding, hidinganything on me.
You're just being transparent.
So is there any other tools orstrategies you would say to
build trust and just build that,uh, relationship with, with the
person you're speaking to?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_1 (26:45):
Um, they're, they're, they're going
to sound mundane, but they're100 percent true.
Uh, if you read the book, thefour agreements be impeccable
with your word.
this is something I had tolearn.
Uh, when I transitioned, I mean,um, 12 years ago, I worked
resorts when I went out on myown and started my own business.
(27:07):
I had to learn to not overcommit to things.
It's not that I wanted to tellsomebody something and not do
it.
It was, I wanted to say yes toeverything, which led to me
making commitments that Iwouldn't keep.
I would forget about most ofthem, but every once in a while,
you know, something would showup and, and I'd be like, I can't
do it.
(27:27):
When you're talking to people,This goes right in line with the
vulnerability piece.
If you say you're going to dosomething, do it.
If you're, if you schedule ameeting beyond time, I can't, I
mean, you and I both spend a lotof time on podcasts.
I can't tell you how many peopleshow up eight, 10 minutes late,
like a minute.
I can understand because you'regoing from call to call,
(27:49):
apologize, own it, move forward.
But people that show up 10 to 15minutes late to every meeting,
That's that is a, that would bea red flag to me as somebody
investing personally, I can'tspeak for everybody out there.
Um, but be impeccable with yourword.
I think that is one of thebiggest things.
(28:10):
And if you do make a mistake,own it right away.
Don't apologize.
Don't don't make excuses.
Just own it.
forward and don't do it again.
That would, that would be one.
Um, the second one is beinterested, do your research on
the people that you're pitching,not to like, you can tell the
(28:32):
people that come on shark tankagain, that just want to like,
Oh, Mark, you in, Oh, Kevin.
like, you can tell the peoplethat actually took the time
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (28:41):
Yeah.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (28:41):
learn about them as a person.
Cause at the end of the day, theperson writing you the check is
they're going to embed with you.
And you want to make sure
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (28:52):
It's a marriage.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (28:54):
yeah, like might be able to write the
check, but if they're not theright fit, you will do better by
saying no.
Or, I mean, this goes for themas well.
If they're sitting there lookingat, at a business and they're
like, this business has all theright things, but I don't vibe
with the founders or I don'ttrust the founders that you
(29:14):
should not stroke that check.
Like, don't, don't sign it.
Like it's not the deal of theyear comes along every day.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (29:23):
Yeah.
I've spoken to so many foundersand my team and I have had
candid discussions with founderswhere like, look, there's
different deals on the table foryou.
And you might take.
Less of a monetary value becauseit's a better fit and they
understand your industry.
They understand you.
It's just a complimentary thing.
You're going to have to spendthe next, you know, two, three,
(29:43):
you know, five, seven years withthis, these people, you better
like them a lot and be able tospend an 18 hour flight to Dubai
where you're going to have totravel to regularly with this
person.
So, you know, take the, take thehit on the, Top number, but
overall that experience and thepotential for the valuation
growth goes up.
So I would agree with that.
(30:04):
Um, a hundred percent.
Um, Oh my gosh, there's so much,there's like fireworks in my
brain off of all the things thatyou've said.
How would you, how would youguide people towards the Q& A
portion?
So you give your presentation,you're vulnerable, you say you
need help, you have thissequence, you're crisp, you're
clean, and then they go okay,and they have some questions.
(30:25):
How would you, just some, whatare some important things to
keep in mind at the Q& Asection?
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_11 (30:31):
So two things, maybe three.
The first one is take whateverthe hardest questions, you know,
they're going to ask, build theminto your pitch or at the end of
the pitch, take them head on.
Hey, what's going through yourhead is probably X, Y, Z.
(30:51):
If you do that and you, youdon't have to go in again, don't
make excuses for it.
Just say, Hey, what's goingthrough your head is X, Y, Z.
Let me tell you how we thinkabout that.
That shows that you're aware ifthey ask a difficult, like if
you take the hardest questionshead on, that will usually
liquidate 90 percent of thequestions.
(31:13):
they'll, they'll be like, Ohman, they thought about this and
they know their business insideand out.
Take notes.
If you're doing your first pitchand they start asking hard
questions, we'll go into what todo then.
But take notes of those andbuild those for next time.
So that you're ready, like,don't wait for them to ask.
Um, there's an idea calleddamaging admissions.
(31:34):
So damaging admissions is athought process of if I tell you
something that I have donewrong, you will trust me more.
And this plays into that.
If you If, if you just take ithead on, it builds so much
trust.
If you, if they ask a hardquestion and the answer is
something they are not going tolike, you have to be honest can,
(31:59):
you can frame it by saying, HeyEmily, you're probably not going
to like this.
This might be a little bitdifficult, but we don't want to
hide anything from you.
This works in relationships
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_ (32:08):
Yes,
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (32:09):
well.
If you're, if you're fightingwith your significant other, or
there's something like sittingon the couch between you, that's
what.
Me and my ex called it, it worksreally well to say, you know,
Hey, actually your name wasEmily.
Um, Hey Emily, um, look, thismight be kind of an
uncomfortable conversation, butI just want to take a deep
(32:29):
breath.
something we need to talk about.
Let's unpack it.
That's that gives them a littlebit of warning.
It primes their nervous systemand it kind of makes it a lot
easier than just slamming theminto a brick wall.
Right.
Um, so that if they ask adifficult question, do that.
The other thing that I wouldtell you, um, my very first
(32:52):
mentor had me do this and itwill serve you well in all
facets of life, get index cards.
And you write, when somebodyasks you a question about
something or somebody, there'sa, uh, objection you have to
overcome.
If you're, if you're asalesperson or a belief, like a
false belief that you need tochange in somebody.
(33:14):
Write out what that is, thenwrite your bullet point story
around it.
People hate to be told things.
They put up walls, right?
And they push back even if theyknow it's the right thing.
So if instead you lead with astory and then tell them the
thing, because the story getsthem to lean in and kind of like
sneak attacks them like Trojanhorse style.
(33:36):
Now you can tell them the thingand they will fully accept it.
So how do you use this inquestions?
Answer, you can give them thestraightforward answer.
Your story should not be long,but give them a very short story
that frames what it is.
I've done that countless timeson this podcast.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (33:57):
All right.
So Q and A, I love that whereyou just hit it head on.
Um, and I, I remember, I forgetthe exact, uh, the gentleman's
name or the exact scenario, buthe, he, he was presenting to us
and he clearly got a question hehadn't thought through.
Um, he was very prepared ingeneral, but he hadn't, he
hadn't gotten this question andhe paused and just literally
(34:17):
like thought about it.
And then he was like, that's agreat question.
Can we just have a conversationaround this?
And here's what I'm thinking.
What do you think about that?
And it was amazing.
Like, it was like, we'reactually having a real dialogue
instead of like, okay, you'representing, I'm going to ask you
QA, everyone just put theirguards down to your point and
just had a conversation aboutthis problem and how we would do
(34:38):
it together.
And that was like, literally, Idon't remember anything else
about this presentation.
I remember like what he waswearing and like the room we
were in and like the fact thathe.
Was like, let me pause and Idon't know, but let me just have
a conversation around this.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_110 (34:53):
I mean, that is, is a phenomenal
way to do it.
Um, and you can't do that onevery question, but it's, it
goes back to you're being honestinstead of trying to, you know,
puff up your chest and makesomething up that makes you
sound good.
I don't, I don't know.
(35:13):
I, I hadn't really thought aboutit, but let's just talk through
it.
Like all the negative energygoes and then you're
collaborating with the personthat you hope writes you a
check, which is not like, that'sthe best way to show your
skills.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024 (35:29):
Yeah.
Steve, you've covered so muchand it's been amazing.
Anything else big that you werelike, Oh, people need to know
about this.
If we're talking about thisstuff, they also need to know
about this.
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_1 (35:39):
Um, I think, I mean, we covered, we
covered a ton.
I will say one of the thingsthat I did early on in my
career, I still do sometimesbring somebody a cup of coffee
is the easiest way.
I mean, depending where youlive, if you're near them, if
you need to talk to somebody,even if it's outside of doing a
(35:59):
pitch, like doing the actualpitch, if you want to do an
elevator pitch to somebody,taking people coffee or donuts
or muffins.
And make sure they eat thatstuff, right?
If they're gluten free or theydon't eat sugar, take them
something.
They can eat that shows that youthought about them.
You can usually get five minuteswith somebody.
done that a hundred plus timesthroughout my career.
(36:22):
If you're listening to this andyou're trying to design this
big, crazy pitch, elevatorpitch.
Is 30 seconds or less don't talkso fast.
They can't hear you instead, getthem to lean in because you
connect with them on anemotional level.
that's, that would be my, my tipto get in the door with people.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (36:41):
Get some coffee, get some donuts, or
if they're like a health nut,get a veggie tray, whatever,
whatever they like.
Open the conversation with that.
So Steve, we talked about thefact that you're this, Massive
director and orchestrator ofevents, but you know, who do you
help and how do you help them?
What else are you up to thatpeople should know about
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (37:00):
Yeah.
The, I mean, I stay very firmlyin my lane.
Um, we, So people who do salesevents, events that are built to
sell something from stage, thatis 80 percent of what we do.
So I work as a consultant.
I sit down with them.
We take the end goal.
We build the whole event aroundthat.
We help source speakers.
(37:21):
We bring the right people in.
I make sure that story arc thatwe talk there is there start to
finish.
Um, I will usually MC theevents.
The MC is actually the secretweapon for sales because the
person on stage, they'reexpecting to sell the MC is
there to break false beliefs,overcome objections.
And then we do what's called therepitch at the very end of the
(37:42):
event, which is an emotionallytriggering speech.
That gets the people that wereon the fence to go by.
Um, I love doing that stuff.
other thing that we do is whatwe just talked about.
I help people build their coretalk, whether that is a Ted
style talk or whether that is apitch talk, we jump in and we
just help, and I do it by askingquestions and getting to know
(38:05):
the person and what they want atthe end of it, because it's not
one size fits all.
emily-sander_1_12-12 (38:09):
beautiful?
I wish every conference wasorchestrated by you because that
sounds amazing Um, if peoplewant to know more or like yep,
please sign me up.
I want to get in touch withsteve Where is the best place
for them to do that
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024 (38:21):
Sure.
Stephenphilipwerner.
com is my main site.
If you're just looking toconnect with me, you can go to
steve.
coffee, C O F F E E, and thatwill get you, um, we have a
couple freebies there, and thenyou can also book a call
directly with me.
You can also book one on thewebsite.
Again, it's Stephenphilip, P H IL L I P, Werner, W E R N E R.
emily-sander_1_12-12-2024_0 (38:46):
and we will have all of that
information in the show notes asalways steve Thank you so much
steve-werner_1_12-12-2024_11 (38:50):
It is my pleasure.
Thanks, Emily.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.