August 25, 2025 • 41 mins
Vivek Modi shares his journey from engineering in Africa to consulting at Ernst and Young and Roland Berger, and now to Chief of Staff for two CEOs at a fast-growing German startup. He compares consulting and Chief of Staff roles, breaks down how he builds trust with senior leaders, and offers practical advice on influencing without authority. Vivek also highlights the importance of clarifying responsibilities before taking on a Chief of Staff job and talks about using LinkedIn for mentoring and connecting.
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- Strategic Planning Checklist
- Chief of Staff Skills Assessment Checklist
- A Day in the Life of a Chief of Staff
- Chief of Staff Toolkit
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Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.
Time Stamps:
00:46 Vivek's Journey to Chief of Staff
01:53 Transition to Consulting
02:45 Chief of Staff Role Explained
03:30 Consulting vs. Chief of Staff
08:48 Influencing Without Authority
09:53 Building Trust and Relationships
22:06 Operational vs. Strategic Work
28:02 Supporting Two CEOs
37:14 Mentorship and Giving Back
38:59 Future Aspirations and Conclusion
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (00:25):
Our guest today is Vivek Modi, and
he comes from a strongconsulting background, is
currently chief of staff andalso works with advising
startups.
So we will hear all about that.
But Vivek, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1 (00:42):
Thank you so much for having me,
Emily.
Looking forward
emily-sander_1_01-09 (00:45):
Beautiful.
And to start us out with, canyou just tell us a little bit
about your journey to Chief ofStaff?
A quick kind of background onyou,
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (00:53):
to the show.
Happy to share.
Um, so, I have had a very, let'ssay, uh, diverse, uh, work
experiences and roles.
Um, I say that in my first life,um, I was an engineer.
Um, uh, uh, yeah, brown person,uh, from India, what do you
expect, right?
Well, uh, yeah, confirming allthe stereotypes, but no, uh,
(01:16):
really enjoyed, uh, being anengineer.
Uh, that's what I studied in mybachelor's and then worked in
Africa for two and a half yearsas an engineer.
Um, and I was, uh, reporting tothe CFO.
So that was the point where Igot in on the business side of
engineering and, uh, started,uh, getting a bit more insights
on business, uh, uh, related,uh, areas.
(01:38):
And that interested me way more,um, than, uh, just engineering,
uh, just the spectrum, um, uh,of it, the responsibility that
was there, uh, along with therole and so on.
So I started business, um, didmy MBA, uh, from TU Munich.
Um, and then walked inconsulting, uh, for a few years,
uh, Ernest and Young and RolandBerger, and then ended up here,
(02:01):
um, uh, as a chief of staff.
Um, Consulting was so what I doright now has a lot in common
with what I did as a consultantas well.
Um, and also some similaritiesto what I, uh, did as a, uh,
project manager, engineeringproject manager, uh, helping the
(02:22):
CFO, uh, implementing projects.
So all those, uh, live stationshad a lot, uh, in what I do
right now.
Um, and, uh, It's also becomingone of the class, uh, classy or
let's say, uh, common exits, uh,right now in Europe, uh, after
consulting, uh, chief of staffis a very broad spectrum.
(02:42):
Um, of responsibilities underthat title.
So we'll have to get into whatexactly, um, this path leads and
what responsibilities do I haveas a chief of staff?
But, uh, yeah, it was, uh, as Isaid, rather a classic exit, um,
after working into consulting.
Happy to dive deeper into one orthe other stations or yeah,
answer any questions that youmay have.
(03:03):
Yeah.
And consulting, I was abouteight months in the
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_08 (03:05):
So Africa to Germany, you've been,
you've been all over.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (03:13):
UK as well.
So, uh, yes, indeed.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (03:18):
And you mentioned, um, kind of a,
uh, a common exit.
So in, in Europe, did you say,so chief of staff in Europe,
common exit would be toconsulting or vice versa.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (03:30):
Um, I think getting into consulting,
um, from chief of staff is chiefof staff role is, um, maybe not
that common, uh, but the otherway around from consulting to
chief of staff, uh, is, is moreof a common exit that, um, Or
transition that I have seen, uh,the reason behind that is
(03:51):
consulting.
They do not look for aparticular, uh, uh, experience,
um, in the, in the, uh, initial.
So, in, in, in, in, in freshersor low level, uh, let's say in
junior consultant analyst levelroles, uh, they have their very
standard processes, uh, ofrecruitment, you go through case
studies and, but they are notparticularly looking for a, for
a background.
If you in Europe, uh.
(04:13):
Okay.
Uh, transitions from one role toanother role or carrier, uh,
drastic carrier transitions arerather, uh, less common than,
uh, in the States.
So we will still look, uh, intopatterns, uh, of let's say
consulting internships, uh, orsome sort of in house consulting
role.
So in that sense, chief of staffrole might help you to, um, Uh,
(04:35):
your interests on type of topicsto work on, uh, into consulting,
but, uh, I haven't seen thatmany, uh, uh, transitions from,
uh, COS to consulting role.
Um, the other way around is, uh,yeah, rather more common.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (04:50):
And just for context, when you were
at Ernst and Young, were you, Ananalyst level at that point, or
what, where did you come in?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_17015 (04:57):
I came in as a consultant level.
So it's, uh, one level because Ialready had some experience
before, um, my MBA.
So that's, uh, one level aboveanalyst.
Um, So yeah, kind of aintermediate consultant.
Um,
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (05:12):
Okay.
And it's interesting.
You mentioned it's a commonexit.
Cause I do see, even in the U Sthere's a lot of between
consulting and chief ofstaffing, um, and people going
in and out of those differentroles.
So just from your perspective,I'm very curious.
Do you see a lot of overlap andsimilarities between the two
roles, or is it like Emily,these things are night and day
(05:34):
difference, or what's your takeon that?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (05:37):
um, there are absolutely a lot of
similarities, but at the sametime, uh, there are also decent
differences.
Um, uh, let's talk aboutsimilarities first.
Um, so I think, uh, the projectbased work.
So, uh, as a chief of staff, youare, uh, expected to, uh, let's
say be in a, in a temporarilyoperative, uh, role where there
(06:01):
is a gap, uh, within theorganization.
So you might go in, you mightlook at the process or design a
new process, structure a newprocess.
Do it for a while till it getson the automation mode and then
you hand it over to to othercolleagues Um when the resources
are there, so this is prettymuch consulting kind of role
(06:24):
where Often big companies whocan afford consultants would
hire a team of people to takecare of topics that are let's
say Not directly taken care byone or the other functional
departments um You Or, uh, whenyou have chief of staff or a
strategy department in house,you, uh, uh, deploy those people
or project management departmentinto, uh, roles that are not
(06:46):
assigned to, uh, or are new to,uh, uh, to the organization.
Um, that's one part.
Second part, uh, where there isa huge overlap is into strategy.
Um, and that starts from longterm planning, um, about
strategy to also annual planningtill OKRs, um, and then tracking
the whole project management,um, uh, stuff.
(07:08):
Um, there as well, um, there's ahuge, um, uh, a huge overlap.
Um, I think one McKinsey partnersaid once, um, that you can't
improve what you, what you do.
Can't track.
So this tracking KPI, OKR based,uh, mentalities is heavily
consulting, uh, driven, uh, or,uh, In my biased perspective, as
(07:31):
an ex consultant originated fromconsulting world, um, so that
mindset and, uh, you know,those, those tools and skills
that one learns into consultingcome, uh, very handy, uh, uh, in
chief of staff, uh, role, um,stakeholder management.
Influencing without authority,uh, these are also very, uh,
(07:55):
because often chief of staffsare individual contributors, um,
and dealing with leaders.
So, um, these are as well, uh,these are also quite, uh, uh,
these are also tasks where youas a consultant are, uh, uh,
trained, uh, uh, on.
These were similarities.
Now, before we go into, uh, uh,what changed, uh, or what are
(08:18):
the differences, um.
Firstly, I'll give you, I have,uh, it was a bit of a monologue.
So if you have any questions or,uh, any remarks before we go
into differences.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (08:28):
No, that was great.
I think the last thing youtouched on everyone I speak with
is always interested in how do Iinfluence without direct
authority because that is a verycommon place for a chief of
staff to be in.
And it's right to call out thatI'm are in the same position
oftentimes as well.
So how did you, you mentionedlike we're trained to do that.
How did you go about what wasyour approach to, um,
(08:51):
Interacting with with C suitecolleagues with senior
executives to influencedecisions and get people rallied
around something without havingthat direct.
I am your boss.
Therefore, I can tell you whatto do.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1 (09:05):
Yeah, very good question, Emily.
Um, so here as well, you know,uh, linking it with, uh,
differences and similaritiesbetween chief of staff and
consultant role.
Um, often consultants are seenas someone who is, uh, behind
your jobs or who is.
coming in as an external,
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (09:23):
Yeah,
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1 (09:23):
tell, trying to look into your KPIs
and tell you what you are notdoing right.
Right.
So that's a typical perspective,uh, how people look at
consultants.
Um, so being in house already,uh, that helps a lot.
Uh, so that is kind of a givenplus, uh, within chief of staff
role that you are not looked,uh, you're working with those
colleagues every day.
So there is a long term, uh, Uh,bonding with those colleagues
(09:46):
compared to when you are aconsultant and just coming as an
external, uh, player, uh, sothat that helps.
Um, I think, uh, before you goand influence people, uh, it's
important to build trust, um,and trust one in terms of
relationships.
Second, in terms of yourcapabilities.
(10:06):
Um, so I think, uh, what helps alot or what helped me a lot is,
uh, in the first, uh, in theinitial phase, not try to, let's
say, um, not try to achieve thisinfluence, uh, as my one of the
first KPIs, but rather, uh, frombuild trust and at both the
levels with your principal, aswell as with the key
stakeholders that the principalis working, uh, with, uh, helped
(10:30):
a lot and in direction to buildtrust, I think one is your
attitude and approach.
So instead of, uh, phrasing itin a way that, uh, Hey, I'm
looking at your KPIs and I'mresponsible for OKRs.
Um, and I, you know, I'mmeasuring what you do.
Um, uh, the attitude or phrasingshould be, uh, we are in the
same team.
And I'm helping you optimizewhat we are doing for the
(10:54):
company.
Um, and also phrasing it in away and having genuinely
believing it, um, I think, um,uh, makes a huge difference.
Um, so, you know, instead oflooking at, uh, a process and
saying, yeah, this is, thisdoesn't work, uh, being there
and optimizing this processyourself so that everyone
(11:15):
benefits.
Um, this framing and, uh, uh,helps a lot.
Um, I think second, uh, thathelps is how quickly you can,
let's say, deliver some, some,some quick results, low hanging
fruits.
So first few.
Weeks and months are extremelycritical.
Um, uh, I'm off of as aconsultant, I'm a fan of, you
(11:38):
know, believing that every dayis your first day.
So, uh, you still get to performand be, uh, but, uh, especially
when you're in a new setup, uh,people don't know what quality
they can expect from you.
Um, uh, you know, being extradiligent in first few days.
Projects that you do withpeople, uh, is, is quite, uh,
(11:58):
quite helpful.
And then, uh, that trust, uh,comes along, uh, with, with, uh,
working together.
Um, that was one part.
Uh, I think second part is alsomaking it clear what comes from
you and what comes from.
Um, your principle.
So because as a chief of staff,you are also a bit of a in a
(12:19):
privileged position to let'ssay, convey the message of the
CEO or your principle to theorganization.
You are the messenger andthey're making a clear
separation between what yourrecommendations are or what, uh,
you actually want, uh, to workwith, uh, or implement in the
company and what your principle,uh, wants to do in letting,
(12:41):
like, People seeing you doingthis repeatedly and knowing,
yeah, you do make a differenceand not, you're not leveraging,
uh, let's say the spotlight, um,that is there, uh, also makes,
uh, makes a difference.
Um, I can go also a bit moretactical on what I did, uh,
let's say, uh, to do, you know,practically establish the trust
and, uh, a good working setupwith, uh, all my stakeholders.
(13:05):
But, um, yeah, we'll give you,we'll take a pause here first.
Mm hmm.
Mm
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (13:11):
But, um, you'll answer this, uh,
you're going to answer this inthe next thing you said, but I
often hear from chiefs of staff,Emily, I don't want to keep
using my principal's name.
Meaning like I'm kind of hidingbehind that because I want to
stand on my own two feet.
And I actually encourage peoplelike, you know, you can kind of
name drop your principal.
(13:31):
In certain select points, butyou don't want to make that a
habit.
Cause you want to say like, youknow, you are coming at this,
people know who you are, peopleknow where you, what you stand
for.
And you have to prove thatyou're capable on your own and
that
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_17 (13:45):
hmm.
emily-sander_1_01-09-202 (13:45):
things to the table on your own.
And yes, you do have this veryspecial, unique relationship
with the principal, but it's notjust, I'm, you know, I'm
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (13:52):
Mm hmm.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (13:54):
So, um, I'd love for you to talk a
little bit more about that.
And maybe that's where you weregoing as well.
vivek-modi_1_01-09- (14:00):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, uh, yeah, establishing trustwithin your own capabilities.
Right?
Um, and, uh, that, that happenswhen you take ownership of
projects completely on your ownand phrase it as your own ideas
and, um, you know, really, youknow, Uh, input that is, let's
say, not just driven, uh, uh, orgiven by, by your, uh,
(14:22):
principle.
It often sometimes means, uh,even challenging your principle,
um, and standing, presentingperspectives of, uh, your
stakeholders, uh, uh, VPs headsoff to the principle that maybe,
uh, they have difficulties in,in getting it through or
something.
So having your own, own, um.
Uh, opinion and own perspectiveon take, uh, on things and
(14:45):
standing by it.
Um, you know, really going deepinto topics and not just doing
administrative projectmanagement of transferring
message, but really, uh, goinginto the core of different
topics, um, and building opinionon your own and then standing by
the opinion.
With the principal as well aswith the stakeholders, um, that
helps a lot.
And, uh, yeah, I, I think I'd,I'd strongly, strongly
(15:09):
recommend, um, uh, any chief ofstaff, uh, colleague who is, is,
yeah, uh, new, uh, in the roleto, uh, take a stand, um, on
your own positions.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (15:20):
Yeah.
And I remember one time when Iwas chief of staff, it was, um,
kind of late in my tenure.
So people kind of knew whatchief of staff was and what I
was about and, um, that I was myown person, but we, we were in
this leadership meeting and wewere discussing this one topic
and I like.
Disagreed with my principal.
Like I wholeheartedly just likedisagreed with, with the CEO and
(15:41):
I voiced my opinion and everyonewas going back and forth and the
team was kind of split on whichdirection to go.
And, um, then like a day or twolater, the CEO made a decision
and it was to go in a differentdirection than I was advocating
for, but then it became my jobto execute to that plan as best
as we possibly could.
And I think.
(16:02):
In a lot of ways, it almostbuilt up respect for, for me in
the, in the role of chief ofstaff, because people saw me
disagree and voice my opinion.
But then once the decision wasmade, I was rallying the troops
around this.
How can we best execute that?
So I liked that you brought thatup.
Cause there is this kind ofdynamic between you want to have
your own voice and have your ownopinion, but you also like, you
(16:25):
make stuff happen when, whenit's time for the rubber to meet
the road.
vivek-modi_1_01-09- (16:29):
Absolutely.
I think this is true for almostevery leadership role that is
there in the company.
So take any topic, right?
There is always a differenceopinion and that's very healthy
for the company that we arelooking at one topic from all
different perspectives possible,all different expertise
involved.
Uh, but once, uh, the decisionis clear, the, the guideline is
(16:52):
clear, then, uh, we all agree tothat and we are just, uh, you
know, trying to, uh, implementit in the best way possible.
We make that decision our own,uh, we leave that.
Uh, and I think, uh, as much,this is like equally true for,
uh, all the VPs, all strategicslash leadership roles.
especially for chief of staff,um, role as well, um, would,
(17:15):
would, yeah, completely agree onthat, that side.
So it's, it's a very healthybalance, uh, between let's say
during brainstorming phase andhaving your own ideas and then,
uh, uh, accepting, uh, uh, thefinal decisions and then driving
it really, really through.
Um,
emily-sander_1_01-09-202 (17:35):
wasn't an antagonistic discussion, but
I like that you just to touch onit.
Like this is healthydiscussions.
It's like where good ideas comefrom.
Cause we challenge each otherand iron sharpens iron and that
whole thing.
So any other practical tips onhow to build trust?
Cause people love this stuff.
Like, okay, I know I'm supposedto build trust and trust is the
foundation and all those quotesand nice things, which are true,
(17:57):
but like, how do you actually dothat?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (18:02):
so let's talk about, you know,
principles and about, uh, keystakeholders.
Uh, so other than theprinciples, uh, uh, VPs or, uh,
heads, uh, whomsoever, uh,you're working with.
Um.
I think with principle, um,again, coming back to
identifying low hanging fruits,um, in first few, uh, in the
(18:25):
initial time of your, uh, ofyour, of your new role, um, and
second is also constant and openfeedback.
Um, so what we used to, and thisagain comes from consulting best
practices, is we used to doweekly feedback sessions, uh, in
the beginning of the projects.
(18:45):
Um, and then, uh, once, youknow, you understand the working
style expectations of each otherbetter, then you can reduce the
frequency.
We all have one on one setup,uh, in a lot of startups and
nowadays in many companies, butoften, um, it's, uh, the
frequency is like the CEO has alot of stuff to do.
So the frequency is often sixweeks and so on.
(19:07):
And that's fine.
That's for a normal setup.
It's, it's okay.
You also have to manage the timeinvested in, uh, in just
feedback.
Uh, but in the beginning, it'svery important that, uh, high
frequency of communication andfeedback is there.
Um, and similarly, uh, I also,so I do not have direct, um, uh,
(19:29):
let's say functional topics thatI'm working on with, uh, my key
stakeholders, the VPs.
But I nevertheless have, uh, setup.
Uh, meeting where we talk aboutthings.
Um, so it's.
With feedback, but at the sametime, what they need from CEOs,
um, what they need from otherdepartments and so on.
So I, in those meetings, thosemeetings, basically, I'm trying
(19:51):
to address their needs, um, uh,and trying to help them in, in
reaching, uh, those goals thatmight mean.
Uh, taking follow up from theCEO.
That might mean, uh, uh,coordinating, uh, uh, more or
other departments to, towards,uh, one project that has, uh,
been, uh, there in pipeline fora while.
Um, and there, when they see,you know, that, uh, you are
(20:14):
offering a lot of value, um, andyou're genuinely interested in,
you know, bringing thingsforward, um, then the attitude
changes.
Then when you, uh, also pushthings forward within.
with that person, uh, it isconsidered, uh, you know, uh,
it's, it's looked at from, froma very different perspective,
um, uh, rather health thanagain, uh, someone just telling
(20:35):
you what to do.
So, uh, finding areas where youcan, uh, contribute quickly, uh,
low hanging fruits, um, andmaking lives of other people
better.
Uh, uh, that's, that's, I wouldsay the key and really, uh, in,
in first few, uh, months, uh,Keeping an eye on topics that
(20:57):
where you can add value, um,that that helps building trust.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (21:02):
Well, I want to highlight a few things
you said because you've saidsome great things.
First of all, if you can makesomeone's life easier, that goes
a long way, right?
When you're first meetingsomeone is like, Oh, like the
first thing you do is you makemy world better.
Okay.
No, I'll certainly interact withyou more.
Um, and I think you've mentioneda couple of times, but like
genuinely wanting to help.
Like, I'm not here to pointfingers or say, gotcha.
(21:24):
My job is to make you successfuland, and, and
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (21:27):
Mm hmm.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (21:28):
even better than it already is.
So I think when thatauthenticity comes across and
you're like, look, I'm not, myjob is to make you look really
good.
That also has a different toneto it.
I love your.
Love your quote on every day ismy first day.
And
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (21:43):
Mm
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (21:43):
liked the framing of when you build
trust, you're building trust interms of the relationships and
also your capabilities.
So that's kind of a niceframework to go, all the way
back to, um, To what is notsimilar between chief of staff
and consulting.
Maybe we can touch on that andlike
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_17 (22:05):
hmm.
Mm
emily-sander_1_01-09-2 (22:06):
question would be where do you come down
on time and effort spent onstrategic activities like
long-term strategic activitiesand decisions versus tactical
and practical, like hands onkeyboard type of work,
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_17 (22:22):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
Uh, just to get clarity on thesecond question, uh, you mean
percentage wise, right?
How much time is spent or
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (22:31):
how much time is spent and then kind
of.
Like, as a consultant, wherewere you?
What was the percentagebreakdown that as chief of
staff, where do you see adifference, if any?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (22:42):
so, uh, consulting again is a huge
industry.
So I have worked with, worked attwo consulting companies, um,
and in different types ofconsulting role.
So, depending on that, um,operation, how much operational
tasks you do, uh, changes, um,like Big Four, EY, uh, Ernst
Young, uh, KPMG, and so on, um,they are decent.
(23:04):
So their strength is more onoperational side, uh, but
strategy consulting, uh,segments, McKinsey, BCG, Bain,
Roland Berger, Oliver Wayman,and so on, uh, they are purely
at analytical slash strategylevel.
So, uh, let's talk about thatsegment as that was my last, uh,
station.
It's 100 percent strategic workas a consultant, there is barely
(23:28):
anything operational, uh,there's operational within your
team, uh, organizing stuff and,uh, you know, running the
strategy project.
But, uh, at the end, um, yourcore, uh, task, uh, is 100%, um,
strategy, uh, analytical,conceptual.
And, uh, that is also, uh,That's the core of strategy
(23:51):
consulting business, right?
So that's your bread and butterand that's what you do, uh, the
whole day, day in, day out.
Um, and the difference between,uh, from consulting to chief of
staff, and that's also one ofthe reasons why.
Uh, I wanted to transition tothis role, um, is because here
you do have a bit moreoperational responsibilities
(24:13):
and, uh, in some case, even 360degree responsibility.
So you do not just analyze andsee what can be optimized.
Uh, of course you do that, butthen you make sure that that
happens.
Uh, that, uh, this optimization,this, uh, savings potential,
this growth potential that, uh,you have theoretically on paper,
uh, uh, analyzed is, is, isthere.
(24:37):
Um, and that's, uh, uh,fascinating.
It can also be a bit, uh, let'ssay, uh, sometimes a bit, um,
time consuming and tediousbecause at the end, then, uh, of
course, implementation is alonger phase than just doing
strategy.
So, uh, to, uh, it requires abit more patience to, till you
(24:57):
get the results and so on, butthat's a, that's a big
difference, uh, compared toconsulting and chief of staff.
And if we talk about percentage,as I said, strategy, consulting,
a hundred percent, uh, strategy.
Chief of staff.
This might vary compared to, uh,for every individual, depending
on, again, and on what spectrumof chief of staff, uh, you are,
(25:20):
um, after the strategyconsulting exit.
Um, uh, I would say 60 percentis still strategy work and 40
percent is implementation.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (25:31):
Okay.
All right.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (25:32):
Um, Uh,
emily-sander_1_01-09-202 (25:33):
split.
I've heard people go, Oh, I'mlike 99 percent in tactical and
practical and 1 percentsometimes I think about
strategy.
I'm like, Ooh, That's a, that'sskewed quite a lot in one
direction.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (25:46):
uh, as I said, it depends a lot on,
um, what the, what theorganization needs and how they
have conceptualized, uh, therole.
Uh, for me it was important thatI remain at, uh, like strategy
has to play a decent role in mydaily work.
Uh, I enjoy doing that work.
Um, uh, it's also my strength.
Um, so I, I, uh, wanted thatvery clearly.
(26:09):
And, um, uh, it's also maybe abit of special situation here.
I.
I'm a chief of staff for twoCEOs.
So I have two principals, uh,which is not that common.
You are like shadowing oneperson.
So you often are, you oftenhave, uh, let's say just one
principal.
Uh, and that kind of, uh, youknow, um, makes my role a bit
(26:32):
different.
And that's why there's a bitmore strategic aspect.
I'm also a in house consultant,slash in house, uh, strategy,
head of strategy.
Um, so I help.
Uh, CEO making the five yearplan.
Um, and that is, uh, as aconsultant, you would employ a
team of four people working forthree months just doing a lot of
(26:52):
analysis.
So doing that in house alsoconsumes a lot of time and
energy resource from my side.
Um, and then there is, uh, lessleft for technical operational,
uh, tasks.
Um, and, uh, that is why thesplit is like that, but it again
depends on, um, you know, what,uh, in what, Cycle, we are like,
we just did this year, fiveyears planning.
(27:13):
We would not do next year, thefive years planning.
So next year, some strategy workmight be, uh, the share might
vary a bit.
Uh, but that's, uh, at least50%, I want it to be still
analytical.
Um, so it's also on, on you, uh,you have to drive it because
that is never, uh, lack ofthings to do and, uh, yeah, you,
(27:38):
you have to communicate it withyour principal.
Clearly you have to see whereyou can add value.
Um, oftentimes it is the casethat strategy work is not needed
and things just needs to bedone.
So, uh, then yeah, you gottajust be in that position and,
and, uh, do what's needed.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (27:58):
Yes, for sure.
So you do have a pretty raresetup.
Okay.
Uh, supporting two CEOs.
I've had chiefs of staffsupport, um, C suite members,
but not two CEOs.
So maybe talk a little bit moreabout kind of the scope and how
your role of chief of staff isset up.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (28:16):
Um, so.
Basically, the company, uh, it'sa bootstrap company.
It evolved to quite a classicstartup story in a way to two
young guys, uh, um, foundingsomething after university and,
uh, the company evolved.
Um, and they, um, they did for along time, a lot of things
(28:40):
together.
Um, so they founded the companytogether, uh, that's the titles
are also both CEOs.
Um, there is no COO or CFO, uh,even though departments are
divided.
Uh, uh, so titles are slightlymisleading.
I would say they're not updated,uh, with the, with the growth of
the organization and time.
Um, but.
So one, uh, person is more indirection of c uh, COO and, uh,
(29:04):
CFO combined.
And the other person, uh, theprincipal I have is more in the
direction of, uh, chief ProductOfficer, um, and chief marketing
officer, uh, combined.
Um, and, uh, that's the setup,uh, and.
You know, they have been growingat double digit rate every year.
So things have been workingwell, uh, for, uh, for the
(29:25):
company.
Um, um, and then they decided tobe a bit more professional.
So first they hired the level ofheads off and VPs.
So people with a ton ofexperience, uh, in the industry,
uh, in their individualfunctions.
Uh, and.
Then, uh, things startedbecoming a bit more chaotic, um,
because, uh, the organizationgrew just naturally.
(29:48):
Um, uh, founders had not worked,uh, before in, uh, one or the
other organization so that theycould implement process and
systems.
And suddenly we are back towhere Double or triple the size.
Uh, so managing those people,uh, working with people who are
way more experienced, uh, uh,and experts in their field, uh,
things started becomingdifficult and that they, uh,
(30:09):
identified that they could, uh,take some, some help, uh,
because they strengthen mostlyfunctional departments, but not
their own selves as CEOs ortheir own teams, right?
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (30:20):
yes.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_ (30:21):
that's where they, uh, identified the
need that we need to strengthencore leadership team.
Um, and, uh, uh, then oftenevery company in their stage
reached, reaches this, this, uh,critical point where founders,
uh, uh, realized that, uh, theyare the bottleneck in terms of
resources and they need to, uh,you know, uh, get more things
(30:43):
done.
Um, um, and, uh, And sometimesyou hire, um, uh, consultants.
Sometimes you hire, uh, a third,um, uh, COO or someone who can,
you know, join in the C suit andhelp.
Sometimes you hire chief ofstaff.
And in our case, they decidedfor chief of staff.
And that's how, uh, that's howI, uh, joined.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_08 (31:03):
Do you happen to know how they
heard about chief of staff?
Like why they wanted a chief ofstaff?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (31:08):
Uh, yes.
So in Germany, um, there wasalso, so we, we used to have,
um, um, Uh, a role called, uh,referent for the
Geschäftsführung and that means,um, kind of an assistant or
founders associate.
Literal translation would befounders associate.
Um, so somewhere such kind ofrole did exist, uh, in German,
(31:32):
uh, ecosystem.
Also in politics, uh, this roleis quite common, um, but
recently it has been verypopular in startup world as
well.
And, um, uh, if I remembercorrectly, one of the CEOs, uh,
just researched what role, uh,makes, uh, more sense.
So they didn't want someone, uh,who would just, uh, Go in the
(31:55):
meetings and take notes and doproject management.
They wanted, uh, some morestrategic input and, um, who can
get into topics a bit moredeeper and help the
organization, um, uh, as a wholeand be a, uh, so, so, uh, there
they, they identified that thechief of staff title, um, works
well.
(32:15):
Uh, I think initially they hadfounders associate or in German
as the German title for it, thereferent, uh, for referent in
for Geschäftsführung, uh, andthat didn't work out that well.
So the people that they weregetting, uh, or the last, uh,
person, uh, who was here, um,that set up didn't, didn't
(32:35):
deliver much.
Um, and then they learned fromthe experience and, um, uh,
then, uh, yeah, uh, upgraded thetitle to Chief of Staff.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (32:44):
Yes.
And it's funny.
I work with founders andmanagement teams at all these
different phases of the companythat you're talking about.
So start up to, Oh, we're morethan like five to 10 people.
So we can't just stand up, youknow, over the cubicle and kind
of talk about something we werebeyond that.
And then other inflection pointsthat come further down the line
with, you know, 50 people, ahundred people doing, you know,
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (33:03):
Um,
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (33:06):
and I love how you, how you
described it, which is manyfounders and CEOs will, will
build up and develop their teamsand functional areas, but they
kind of miss doing that forthemselves and their leadership.
And when they come to thatcritical juncture, that is where
you would bring in a chief ofstaff.
So I think that's a nice way todescribe that, but, um, yes, any
(33:30):
advice you would give tosomeone.
Going from consulting to being achief of staff.
So following the same path youdid, is there something where,
oh my gosh, if I would haveknown this at the beginning,
life would have been so mucheasier.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (33:47):
I'd say clarifying the
responsibilities andunderstanding your role, uh,
during the interview process,um, is, is very critical, um,
depending on which, uh, size,uh, of company you join.
So now, um, also in bigcompanies, the role is becoming
very popular.
(34:08):
um, so like chief of staff role,history and in, um, uh, White
House.
And then, you know, all acrossthe world in politics, the role
became a bit more popular andthen in startup world slash tech
ecosystem.
But now in Germany, we also haveincorporates, uh, so Siemens,
uh, uh, One of the largestGerman company has a chief of
staff role.
(34:28):
So depending on, you know, uh,how mature the company is, um, I
think, uh, if, if you are goingfor mature companies, I think
it's, it's, it's pretty fine.
But if you're going for, let'ssay startups or smaller
companies, um, then reallyunderstanding what the founder,
uh, needs, uh, from the role,because, uh, depending on
company, you.
(34:49):
Could be doing completedifferent things, uh,
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_08 (34:52):
It
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025 (34:53):
expect, you know, a polar apart from,
uh, one another, each other.
And, uh, that's really, uh,getting this clarity, um, uh,
during the interview process,uh, and then questioning
yourself, whether, uh, this issomething really that you want
to want to do.
And, uh, you want to add value,uh, asking yourself, whether
(35:15):
what you want to do in next fiveyears, uh, Whether the step that
you're taking would, would, uh,you know, contribute to your,
your goal or not.
Um, that's, that's, I think the,the core thing, um, that, that
I'd say, because during, as Iwas interviewing, I have had a
lot of experiences, funnyexperiences where people just
put titles, like, Chief ofStaff, I don't know, somewhere
(35:40):
they found it.
Sounds sexy, let's use it.
Sounds better than FoundersAssociate.
Uh, you know, maybe you attractAlso, sometimes people just put
titles to attract better talent,which is not a bad strategy.
But then the responsibilitiesand intellectual challenges and,
yeah, what the role Uh, thelearnings, what, what the role
(36:02):
has to offer other than, uh,monetary compensation to the
person also needs to match, uh,with the title.
And, um, so I think, uh, thereI'd, I'd, uh, uh, encourage
everyone to do a decent duediligence.
Um, that's one thing.
Um, I think second is, uh, as Isaid, chief of staff.
(36:22):
does mean, um, uh, you, you arethe, you are the hotfix guy,
right?
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (36:28):
Yes.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_17 (36:28):
You, something doesn't work.
You go and fix it.
Uh, you are that plumber, youare that electrician.
So you, uh, you, you know, um,um, so this, this, um, People
have to like, you have to makesure for yourself that, uh, this
is something you would enjoydoing.
Because compared to justanalyzing, uh, or reading theory
(36:51):
on how to, um, uh, let's sayfinding the best, uh, optimal
way or best tool to, in theory,to, to fix the pipe and then
doing it yourself are twodifferent skills.
Um, um, so, so,
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (37:04):
that term before, but I love it.
Like a chief of staff in thestartup phase is absolutely an
executive hot fixer.
Like that is what you're doingall day long.
So that's amazing.
Um, Vivek, I know thatmentorship is important to you.
So
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_ (37:17):
Mm-hmm
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_08 (37:18):
on mentorship and how do you
approach that?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_ (37:21):
Mm-hmm Um.
So I have been blessed, um, uh,throughout my career to have
amazing people, um, willing tomentor, um, um, uh, me.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I, I stillbenefit from that, uh, a lot of,
uh, consulting partners.
Uh, when I was at theuniversity, um, I could directly
(37:42):
get in touch with them who have,like, 10 years of experience in
consulting and who could, uh,just shape, uh, answer almost
every question that I had and,you know, provide really
concrete guidance from theirexperience.
And, um, so, yeah, uh, I do thata lot, uh, reach out to people,
uh, use university networks,use, uh, uh, uh, alumni, uh,
(38:04):
networks and so on.
And, and, you know, benefit alot from just experiences of
people.
Um, and I try to give that backto the, uh, society as well.
Um, so I have been mentoring,um, uh, a lot of engineers and a
lot of B school grads, um, intogetting into consulting, uh,
just, uh, especially now Bschool, uh, grads, especially
(38:27):
as, as, uh, the, the transitionfrom engineering to B school as
well as, uh, startups, um, and,uh, yeah, that's something that
I'd, Encourage people to justreach out to to people whom they
think that they can help.
There are ample amounts ofplatforms nowadays as well,
where you can, you know,platforms that you can leverage
(38:47):
to to seek some mentorship.
If let's say your uni or thecompanies you have worked in do
not have a structured mentormentoring program.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (38:58):
Yes.
And what are you excited aboutnow?
Or is it kind of in the techspace and the startup space
strategy?
What excites you now?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (39:07):
Um, I mean, so far, uh, Chief of
Staff work has been fascinating,so, uh, that does excite me,
just the work in itself.
Um, I, uh, I get to do thingsthat I get, uh, that I like, um,
and, uh, that's, that'smotivating.
Impact has been the core ofeverything that I have done so
(39:27):
far.
I love when something that Ihave built is actually used and
creates value.
There is no better feeling thanthis.
No better satisfaction in termsof work.
So that's amazing and that'sdriving me well so far.
But let's say down the line, fewyears, uh, I'd like to build
(39:52):
something big, uh, on my own.
So maybe found something and,you know, create some, some,
some product, um, uh, myself,um, and that, that as well,
working directly with founders.
I'm also, uh, uh, doingfreelance consulting, uh, slash,
uh, interim chief of staffadvising a lot of, uh, um, small
companies and startups here inGermany.
(40:14):
Uh, so, uh, that is, you know, abit of, uh, freelance work, side
gigs that I'm doing, uh, andboth the main tasks, side gigs,
everything is kind of quitealigned to where I want to
reach, um, um, in few years.
So yes, uh, excited about whatI'm doing now and excited about
where it leads me.
(40:36):
how all this contributes to whatI want to build at the end.
emily-sander_1_01-09-202 (40:39):
That's a great place to be when you're
excited about what you're doingnow and then where that's going
to lead you.
So with that, if anyone haslistened to you and says, Oh, I
actually would love to, youknow, have a brainstorm session
or just bounce some ideas aroundwith Vivek, where's the best
place for people to find you orconnect with you?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (40:55):
Um, LinkedIn, uh, do reach out
there.
I'm quite active, uh, onLinkedIn.
So, um, yes, that would be, uh,would be the place to, to reach
out.
emily-sander_1_01-09 (41:06):
Excellent.
We'll have your LinkedIninformation in the show notes
for people, but Vivek, so thankyou so much for your time and
for sharing your wonderfulinsights and theoretical and
practical tips on building trustand moving from consulting to
chief of staff.
Thank you so much.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_ (41:21):
Emily, it was an absolute pleasure
being here.
Thanks for inviting me.
It was lovely talking to you.
Our guest today is Vivek Modi, and
he comes from a strongconsulting background, is
currently chief of staff andalso works with advising
startups.
So we will hear all about that.
But Vivek, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1 (00:42):
Thank you so much for having me,
Emily.
Looking forward
emily-sander_1_01-09 (00:45):
Beautiful.
And to start us out with, canyou just tell us a little bit
about your journey to Chief ofStaff?
A quick kind of background onyou,
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (00:53):
to the show.
Happy to share.
Um, so, I have had a very, let'ssay, uh, diverse, uh, work
experiences and roles.
Um, I say that in my first life,um, I was an engineer.
Um, uh, uh, yeah, brown person,uh, from India, what do you
expect, right?
Well, uh, yeah, confirming allthe stereotypes, but no, uh,
(01:16):
really enjoyed, uh, being anengineer.
Uh, that's what I studied in mybachelor's and then worked in
Africa for two and a half yearsas an engineer.
Um, and I was, uh, reporting tothe CFO.
So that was the point where Igot in on the business side of
engineering and, uh, started,uh, getting a bit more insights
on business, uh, uh, related,uh, areas.
(01:38):
And that interested me way more,um, than, uh, just engineering,
uh, just the spectrum, um, uh,of it, the responsibility that
was there, uh, along with therole and so on.
So I started business, um, didmy MBA, uh, from TU Munich.
Um, and then walked inconsulting, uh, for a few years,
uh, Ernest and Young and RolandBerger, and then ended up here,
(02:01):
um, uh, as a chief of staff.
Um, Consulting was so what I doright now has a lot in common
with what I did as a consultantas well.
Um, and also some similaritiesto what I, uh, did as a, uh,
project manager, engineeringproject manager, uh, helping the
(02:22):
CFO, uh, implementing projects.
So all those, uh, live stationshad a lot, uh, in what I do
right now.
Um, and, uh, It's also becomingone of the class, uh, classy or
let's say, uh, common exits, uh,right now in Europe, uh, after
consulting, uh, chief of staffis a very broad spectrum.
(02:42):
Um, of responsibilities underthat title.
So we'll have to get into whatexactly, um, this path leads and
what responsibilities do I haveas a chief of staff?
But, uh, yeah, it was, uh, as Isaid, rather a classic exit, um,
after working into consulting.
Happy to dive deeper into one orthe other stations or yeah,
answer any questions that youmay have.
(03:03):
Yeah.
And consulting, I was abouteight months in the
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_08 (03:05):
So Africa to Germany, you've been,
you've been all over.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (03:13):
UK as well.
So, uh, yes, indeed.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (03:18):
And you mentioned, um, kind of a,
uh, a common exit.
So in, in Europe, did you say,so chief of staff in Europe,
common exit would be toconsulting or vice versa.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (03:30):
Um, I think getting into consulting,
um, from chief of staff is chiefof staff role is, um, maybe not
that common, uh, but the otherway around from consulting to
chief of staff, uh, is, is moreof a common exit that, um, Or
transition that I have seen, uh,the reason behind that is
(03:51):
consulting.
They do not look for aparticular, uh, uh, experience,
um, in the, in the, uh, initial.
So, in, in, in, in, in freshersor low level, uh, let's say in
junior consultant analyst levelroles, uh, they have their very
standard processes, uh, ofrecruitment, you go through case
studies and, but they are notparticularly looking for a, for
a background.
If you in Europe, uh.
(04:13):
Okay.
Uh, transitions from one role toanother role or carrier, uh,
drastic carrier transitions arerather, uh, less common than,
uh, in the States.
So we will still look, uh, intopatterns, uh, of let's say
consulting internships, uh, orsome sort of in house consulting
role.
So in that sense, chief of staffrole might help you to, um, Uh,
(04:35):
your interests on type of topicsto work on, uh, into consulting,
but, uh, I haven't seen thatmany, uh, uh, transitions from,
uh, COS to consulting role.
Um, the other way around is, uh,yeah, rather more common.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (04:50):
And just for context, when you were
at Ernst and Young, were you, Ananalyst level at that point, or
what, where did you come in?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_17015 (04:57):
I came in as a consultant level.
So it's, uh, one level because Ialready had some experience
before, um, my MBA.
So that's, uh, one level aboveanalyst.
Um, So yeah, kind of aintermediate consultant.
Um,
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (05:12):
Okay.
And it's interesting.
You mentioned it's a commonexit.
Cause I do see, even in the U Sthere's a lot of between
consulting and chief ofstaffing, um, and people going
in and out of those differentroles.
So just from your perspective,I'm very curious.
Do you see a lot of overlap andsimilarities between the two
roles, or is it like Emily,these things are night and day
(05:34):
difference, or what's your takeon that?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (05:37):
um, there are absolutely a lot of
similarities, but at the sametime, uh, there are also decent
differences.
Um, uh, let's talk aboutsimilarities first.
Um, so I think, uh, the projectbased work.
So, uh, as a chief of staff, youare, uh, expected to, uh, let's
say be in a, in a temporarilyoperative, uh, role where there
(06:01):
is a gap, uh, within theorganization.
So you might go in, you mightlook at the process or design a
new process, structure a newprocess.
Do it for a while till it getson the automation mode and then
you hand it over to to othercolleagues Um when the resources
are there, so this is prettymuch consulting kind of role
(06:24):
where Often big companies whocan afford consultants would
hire a team of people to takecare of topics that are let's
say Not directly taken care byone or the other functional
departments um You Or, uh, whenyou have chief of staff or a
strategy department in house,you, uh, uh, deploy those people
or project management departmentinto, uh, roles that are not
(06:46):
assigned to, uh, or are new to,uh, uh, to the organization.
Um, that's one part.
Second part, uh, where there isa huge overlap is into strategy.
Um, and that starts from longterm planning, um, about
strategy to also annual planningtill OKRs, um, and then tracking
the whole project management,um, uh, stuff.
(07:08):
Um, there as well, um, there's ahuge, um, uh, a huge overlap.
Um, I think one McKinsey partnersaid once, um, that you can't
improve what you, what you do.
Can't track.
So this tracking KPI, OKR based,uh, mentalities is heavily
consulting, uh, driven, uh, or,uh, In my biased perspective, as
(07:31):
an ex consultant originated fromconsulting world, um, so that
mindset and, uh, you know,those, those tools and skills
that one learns into consultingcome, uh, very handy, uh, uh, in
chief of staff, uh, role, um,stakeholder management.
Influencing without authority,uh, these are also very, uh,
(07:55):
because often chief of staffsare individual contributors, um,
and dealing with leaders.
So, um, these are as well, uh,these are also quite, uh, uh,
these are also tasks where youas a consultant are, uh, uh,
trained, uh, uh, on.
These were similarities.
Now, before we go into, uh, uh,what changed, uh, or what are
(08:18):
the differences, um.
Firstly, I'll give you, I have,uh, it was a bit of a monologue.
So if you have any questions or,uh, any remarks before we go
into differences.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (08:28):
No, that was great.
I think the last thing youtouched on everyone I speak with
is always interested in how do Iinfluence without direct
authority because that is a verycommon place for a chief of
staff to be in.
And it's right to call out thatI'm are in the same position
oftentimes as well.
So how did you, you mentionedlike we're trained to do that.
How did you go about what wasyour approach to, um,
(08:51):
Interacting with with C suitecolleagues with senior
executives to influencedecisions and get people rallied
around something without havingthat direct.
I am your boss.
Therefore, I can tell you whatto do.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1 (09:05):
Yeah, very good question, Emily.
Um, so here as well, you know,uh, linking it with, uh,
differences and similaritiesbetween chief of staff and
consultant role.
Um, often consultants are seenas someone who is, uh, behind
your jobs or who is.
coming in as an external,
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (09:23):
Yeah,
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1 (09:23):
tell, trying to look into your KPIs
and tell you what you are notdoing right.
Right.
So that's a typical perspective,uh, how people look at
consultants.
Um, so being in house already,uh, that helps a lot.
Uh, so that is kind of a givenplus, uh, within chief of staff
role that you are not looked,uh, you're working with those
colleagues every day.
So there is a long term, uh, Uh,bonding with those colleagues
(09:46):
compared to when you are aconsultant and just coming as an
external, uh, player, uh, sothat that helps.
Um, I think, uh, before you goand influence people, uh, it's
important to build trust, um,and trust one in terms of
relationships.
Second, in terms of yourcapabilities.
(10:06):
Um, so I think, uh, what helps alot or what helped me a lot is,
uh, in the first, uh, in theinitial phase, not try to, let's
say, um, not try to achieve thisinfluence, uh, as my one of the
first KPIs, but rather, uh, frombuild trust and at both the
levels with your principal, aswell as with the key
stakeholders that the principalis working, uh, with, uh, helped
(10:30):
a lot and in direction to buildtrust, I think one is your
attitude and approach.
So instead of, uh, phrasing itin a way that, uh, Hey, I'm
looking at your KPIs and I'mresponsible for OKRs.
Um, and I, you know, I'mmeasuring what you do.
Um, uh, the attitude or phrasingshould be, uh, we are in the
same team.
And I'm helping you optimizewhat we are doing for the
(10:54):
company.
Um, and also phrasing it in away and having genuinely
believing it, um, I think, um,uh, makes a huge difference.
Um, so, you know, instead oflooking at, uh, a process and
saying, yeah, this is, thisdoesn't work, uh, being there
and optimizing this processyourself so that everyone
(11:15):
benefits.
Um, this framing and, uh, uh,helps a lot.
Um, I think second, uh, thathelps is how quickly you can,
let's say, deliver some, some,some quick results, low hanging
fruits.
So first few.
Weeks and months are extremelycritical.
Um, uh, I'm off of as aconsultant, I'm a fan of, you
(11:38):
know, believing that every dayis your first day.
So, uh, you still get to performand be, uh, but, uh, especially
when you're in a new setup, uh,people don't know what quality
they can expect from you.
Um, uh, you know, being extradiligent in first few days.
Projects that you do withpeople, uh, is, is quite, uh,
(11:58):
quite helpful.
And then, uh, that trust, uh,comes along, uh, with, with, uh,
working together.
Um, that was one part.
Uh, I think second part is alsomaking it clear what comes from
you and what comes from.
Um, your principle.
So because as a chief of staff,you are also a bit of a in a
(12:19):
privileged position to let'ssay, convey the message of the
CEO or your principle to theorganization.
You are the messenger andthey're making a clear
separation between what yourrecommendations are or what, uh,
you actually want, uh, to workwith, uh, or implement in the
company and what your principle,uh, wants to do in letting,
(12:41):
like, People seeing you doingthis repeatedly and knowing,
yeah, you do make a differenceand not, you're not leveraging,
uh, let's say the spotlight, um,that is there, uh, also makes,
uh, makes a difference.
Um, I can go also a bit moretactical on what I did, uh,
let's say, uh, to do, you know,practically establish the trust
and, uh, a good working setupwith, uh, all my stakeholders.
(13:05):
But, um, yeah, we'll give you,we'll take a pause here first.
Mm hmm.
Mm
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (13:11):
But, um, you'll answer this, uh,
you're going to answer this inthe next thing you said, but I
often hear from chiefs of staff,Emily, I don't want to keep
using my principal's name.
Meaning like I'm kind of hidingbehind that because I want to
stand on my own two feet.
And I actually encourage peoplelike, you know, you can kind of
name drop your principal.
(13:31):
In certain select points, butyou don't want to make that a
habit.
Cause you want to say like, youknow, you are coming at this,
people know who you are, peopleknow where you, what you stand
for.
And you have to prove thatyou're capable on your own and
that
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_17 (13:45):
hmm.
emily-sander_1_01-09-202 (13:45):
things to the table on your own.
And yes, you do have this veryspecial, unique relationship
with the principal, but it's notjust, I'm, you know, I'm
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (13:52):
Mm hmm.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (13:54):
So, um, I'd love for you to talk a
little bit more about that.
And maybe that's where you weregoing as well.
vivek-modi_1_01-09- (14:00):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, uh, yeah, establishing trustwithin your own capabilities.
Right?
Um, and, uh, that, that happenswhen you take ownership of
projects completely on your ownand phrase it as your own ideas
and, um, you know, really, youknow, Uh, input that is, let's
say, not just driven, uh, uh, orgiven by, by your, uh,
(14:22):
principle.
It often sometimes means, uh,even challenging your principle,
um, and standing, presentingperspectives of, uh, your
stakeholders, uh, uh, VPs headsoff to the principle that maybe,
uh, they have difficulties in,in getting it through or
something.
So having your own, own, um.
Uh, opinion and own perspectiveon take, uh, on things and
(14:45):
standing by it.
Um, you know, really going deepinto topics and not just doing
administrative projectmanagement of transferring
message, but really, uh, goinginto the core of different
topics, um, and building opinionon your own and then standing by
the opinion.
With the principal as well aswith the stakeholders, um, that
helps a lot.
And, uh, yeah, I, I think I'd,I'd strongly, strongly
(15:09):
recommend, um, uh, any chief ofstaff, uh, colleague who is, is,
yeah, uh, new, uh, in the roleto, uh, take a stand, um, on
your own positions.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (15:20):
Yeah.
And I remember one time when Iwas chief of staff, it was, um,
kind of late in my tenure.
So people kind of knew whatchief of staff was and what I
was about and, um, that I was myown person, but we, we were in
this leadership meeting and wewere discussing this one topic
and I like.
Disagreed with my principal.
Like I wholeheartedly just likedisagreed with, with the CEO and
(15:41):
I voiced my opinion and everyonewas going back and forth and the
team was kind of split on whichdirection to go.
And, um, then like a day or twolater, the CEO made a decision
and it was to go in a differentdirection than I was advocating
for, but then it became my jobto execute to that plan as best
as we possibly could.
And I think.
(16:02):
In a lot of ways, it almostbuilt up respect for, for me in
the, in the role of chief ofstaff, because people saw me
disagree and voice my opinion.
But then once the decision wasmade, I was rallying the troops
around this.
How can we best execute that?
So I liked that you brought thatup.
Cause there is this kind ofdynamic between you want to have
your own voice and have your ownopinion, but you also like, you
(16:25):
make stuff happen when, whenit's time for the rubber to meet
the road.
vivek-modi_1_01-09- (16:29):
Absolutely.
I think this is true for almostevery leadership role that is
there in the company.
So take any topic, right?
There is always a differenceopinion and that's very healthy
for the company that we arelooking at one topic from all
different perspectives possible,all different expertise
involved.
Uh, but once, uh, the decisionis clear, the, the guideline is
(16:52):
clear, then, uh, we all agree tothat and we are just, uh, you
know, trying to, uh, implementit in the best way possible.
We make that decision our own,uh, we leave that.
Uh, and I think, uh, as much,this is like equally true for,
uh, all the VPs, all strategicslash leadership roles.
especially for chief of staff,um, role as well, um, would,
(17:15):
would, yeah, completely agree onthat, that side.
So it's, it's a very healthybalance, uh, between let's say
during brainstorming phase andhaving your own ideas and then,
uh, uh, accepting, uh, uh, thefinal decisions and then driving
it really, really through.
Um,
emily-sander_1_01-09-202 (17:35):
wasn't an antagonistic discussion, but
I like that you just to touch onit.
Like this is healthydiscussions.
It's like where good ideas comefrom.
Cause we challenge each otherand iron sharpens iron and that
whole thing.
So any other practical tips onhow to build trust?
Cause people love this stuff.
Like, okay, I know I'm supposedto build trust and trust is the
foundation and all those quotesand nice things, which are true,
(17:57):
but like, how do you actually dothat?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (18:02):
so let's talk about, you know,
principles and about, uh, keystakeholders.
Uh, so other than theprinciples, uh, uh, VPs or, uh,
heads, uh, whomsoever, uh,you're working with.
Um.
I think with principle, um,again, coming back to
identifying low hanging fruits,um, in first few, uh, in the
(18:25):
initial time of your, uh, ofyour, of your new role, um, and
second is also constant and openfeedback.
Um, so what we used to, and thisagain comes from consulting best
practices, is we used to doweekly feedback sessions, uh, in
the beginning of the projects.
(18:45):
Um, and then, uh, once, youknow, you understand the working
style expectations of each otherbetter, then you can reduce the
frequency.
We all have one on one setup,uh, in a lot of startups and
nowadays in many companies, butoften, um, it's, uh, the
frequency is like the CEO has alot of stuff to do.
So the frequency is often sixweeks and so on.
(19:07):
And that's fine.
That's for a normal setup.
It's, it's okay.
You also have to manage the timeinvested in, uh, in just
feedback.
Uh, but in the beginning, it'svery important that, uh, high
frequency of communication andfeedback is there.
Um, and similarly, uh, I also,so I do not have direct, um, uh,
(19:29):
let's say functional topics thatI'm working on with, uh, my key
stakeholders, the VPs.
But I nevertheless have, uh, setup.
Uh, meeting where we talk aboutthings.
Um, so it's.
With feedback, but at the sametime, what they need from CEOs,
um, what they need from otherdepartments and so on.
So I, in those meetings, thosemeetings, basically, I'm trying
(19:51):
to address their needs, um, uh,and trying to help them in, in
reaching, uh, those goals thatmight mean.
Uh, taking follow up from theCEO.
That might mean, uh, uh,coordinating, uh, uh, more or
other departments to, towards,uh, one project that has, uh,
been, uh, there in pipeline fora while.
Um, and there, when they see,you know, that, uh, you are
(20:14):
offering a lot of value, um, andyou're genuinely interested in,
you know, bringing thingsforward, um, then the attitude
changes.
Then when you, uh, also pushthings forward within.
with that person, uh, it isconsidered, uh, you know, uh,
it's, it's looked at from, froma very different perspective,
um, uh, rather health thanagain, uh, someone just telling
(20:35):
you what to do.
So, uh, finding areas where youcan, uh, contribute quickly, uh,
low hanging fruits, um, andmaking lives of other people
better.
Uh, uh, that's, that's, I wouldsay the key and really, uh, in,
in first few, uh, months, uh,Keeping an eye on topics that
(20:57):
where you can add value, um,that that helps building trust.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (21:02):
Well, I want to highlight a few things
you said because you've saidsome great things.
First of all, if you can makesomeone's life easier, that goes
a long way, right?
When you're first meetingsomeone is like, Oh, like the
first thing you do is you makemy world better.
Okay.
No, I'll certainly interact withyou more.
Um, and I think you've mentioneda couple of times, but like
genuinely wanting to help.
Like, I'm not here to pointfingers or say, gotcha.
(21:24):
My job is to make you successfuland, and, and
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (21:27):
Mm hmm.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (21:28):
even better than it already is.
So I think when thatauthenticity comes across and
you're like, look, I'm not, myjob is to make you look really
good.
That also has a different toneto it.
I love your.
Love your quote on every day ismy first day.
And
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_1701 (21:43):
Mm
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (21:43):
liked the framing of when you build
trust, you're building trust interms of the relationships and
also your capabilities.
So that's kind of a niceframework to go, all the way
back to, um, To what is notsimilar between chief of staff
and consulting.
Maybe we can touch on that andlike
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_17 (22:05):
hmm.
Mm
emily-sander_1_01-09-2 (22:06):
question would be where do you come down
on time and effort spent onstrategic activities like
long-term strategic activitiesand decisions versus tactical
and practical, like hands onkeyboard type of work,
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_17 (22:22):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
Uh, just to get clarity on thesecond question, uh, you mean
percentage wise, right?
How much time is spent or
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (22:31):
how much time is spent and then kind
of.
Like, as a consultant, wherewere you?
What was the percentagebreakdown that as chief of
staff, where do you see adifference, if any?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (22:42):
so, uh, consulting again is a huge
industry.
So I have worked with, worked attwo consulting companies, um,
and in different types ofconsulting role.
So, depending on that, um,operation, how much operational
tasks you do, uh, changes, um,like Big Four, EY, uh, Ernst
Young, uh, KPMG, and so on, um,they are decent.
(23:04):
So their strength is more onoperational side, uh, but
strategy consulting, uh,segments, McKinsey, BCG, Bain,
Roland Berger, Oliver Wayman,and so on, uh, they are purely
at analytical slash strategylevel.
So, uh, let's talk about thatsegment as that was my last, uh,
station.
It's 100 percent strategic workas a consultant, there is barely
(23:28):
anything operational, uh,there's operational within your
team, uh, organizing stuff and,uh, you know, running the
strategy project.
But, uh, at the end, um, yourcore, uh, task, uh, is 100%, um,
strategy, uh, analytical,conceptual.
And, uh, that is also, uh,That's the core of strategy
(23:51):
consulting business, right?
So that's your bread and butterand that's what you do, uh, the
whole day, day in, day out.
Um, and the difference between,uh, from consulting to chief of
staff, and that's also one ofthe reasons why.
Uh, I wanted to transition tothis role, um, is because here
you do have a bit moreoperational responsibilities
(24:13):
and, uh, in some case, even 360degree responsibility.
So you do not just analyze andsee what can be optimized.
Uh, of course you do that, butthen you make sure that that
happens.
Uh, that, uh, this optimization,this, uh, savings potential,
this growth potential that, uh,you have theoretically on paper,
uh, uh, analyzed is, is, isthere.
(24:37):
Um, and that's, uh, uh,fascinating.
It can also be a bit, uh, let'ssay, uh, sometimes a bit, um,
time consuming and tediousbecause at the end, then, uh, of
course, implementation is alonger phase than just doing
strategy.
So, uh, to, uh, it requires abit more patience to, till you
(24:57):
get the results and so on, butthat's a, that's a big
difference, uh, compared toconsulting and chief of staff.
And if we talk about percentage,as I said, strategy, consulting,
a hundred percent, uh, strategy.
Chief of staff.
This might vary compared to, uh,for every individual, depending
on, again, and on what spectrumof chief of staff, uh, you are,
(25:20):
um, after the strategyconsulting exit.
Um, uh, I would say 60 percentis still strategy work and 40
percent is implementation.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025 (25:31):
Okay.
All right.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (25:32):
Um, Uh,
emily-sander_1_01-09-202 (25:33):
split.
I've heard people go, Oh, I'mlike 99 percent in tactical and
practical and 1 percentsometimes I think about
strategy.
I'm like, Ooh, That's a, that'sskewed quite a lot in one
direction.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (25:46):
uh, as I said, it depends a lot on,
um, what the, what theorganization needs and how they
have conceptualized, uh, therole.
Uh, for me it was important thatI remain at, uh, like strategy
has to play a decent role in mydaily work.
Uh, I enjoy doing that work.
Um, uh, it's also my strength.
Um, so I, I, uh, wanted thatvery clearly.
(26:09):
And, um, uh, it's also maybe abit of special situation here.
I.
I'm a chief of staff for twoCEOs.
So I have two principals, uh,which is not that common.
You are like shadowing oneperson.
So you often are, you oftenhave, uh, let's say just one
principal.
Uh, and that kind of, uh, youknow, um, makes my role a bit
(26:32):
different.
And that's why there's a bitmore strategic aspect.
I'm also a in house consultant,slash in house, uh, strategy,
head of strategy.
Um, so I help.
Uh, CEO making the five yearplan.
Um, and that is, uh, as aconsultant, you would employ a
team of four people working forthree months just doing a lot of
(26:52):
analysis.
So doing that in house alsoconsumes a lot of time and
energy resource from my side.
Um, and then there is, uh, lessleft for technical operational,
uh, tasks.
Um, and, uh, that is why thesplit is like that, but it again
depends on, um, you know, what,uh, in what, Cycle, we are like,
we just did this year, fiveyears planning.
(27:13):
We would not do next year, thefive years planning.
So next year, some strategy workmight be, uh, the share might
vary a bit.
Uh, but that's, uh, at least50%, I want it to be still
analytical.
Um, so it's also on, on you, uh,you have to drive it because
that is never, uh, lack ofthings to do and, uh, yeah, you,
(27:38):
you have to communicate it withyour principal.
Clearly you have to see whereyou can add value.
Um, oftentimes it is the casethat strategy work is not needed
and things just needs to bedone.
So, uh, then yeah, you gottajust be in that position and,
and, uh, do what's needed.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (27:58):
Yes, for sure.
So you do have a pretty raresetup.
Okay.
Uh, supporting two CEOs.
I've had chiefs of staffsupport, um, C suite members,
but not two CEOs.
So maybe talk a little bit moreabout kind of the scope and how
your role of chief of staff isset up.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (28:16):
Um, so.
Basically, the company, uh, it'sa bootstrap company.
It evolved to quite a classicstartup story in a way to two
young guys, uh, um, foundingsomething after university and,
uh, the company evolved.
Um, and they, um, they did for along time, a lot of things
(28:40):
together.
Um, so they founded the companytogether, uh, that's the titles
are also both CEOs.
Um, there is no COO or CFO, uh,even though departments are
divided.
Uh, uh, so titles are slightlymisleading.
I would say they're not updated,uh, with the, with the growth of
the organization and time.
Um, but.
So one, uh, person is more indirection of c uh, COO and, uh,
(29:04):
CFO combined.
And the other person, uh, theprincipal I have is more in the
direction of, uh, chief ProductOfficer, um, and chief marketing
officer, uh, combined.
Um, and, uh, that's the setup,uh, and.
You know, they have been growingat double digit rate every year.
So things have been workingwell, uh, for, uh, for the
(29:25):
company.
Um, um, and then they decided tobe a bit more professional.
So first they hired the level ofheads off and VPs.
So people with a ton ofexperience, uh, in the industry,
uh, in their individualfunctions.
Uh, and.
Then, uh, things startedbecoming a bit more chaotic, um,
because, uh, the organizationgrew just naturally.
(29:48):
Um, uh, founders had not worked,uh, before in, uh, one or the
other organization so that theycould implement process and
systems.
And suddenly we are back towhere Double or triple the size.
Uh, so managing those people,uh, working with people who are
way more experienced, uh, uh,and experts in their field, uh,
things started becomingdifficult and that they, uh,
(30:09):
identified that they could, uh,take some, some help, uh,
because they strengthen mostlyfunctional departments, but not
their own selves as CEOs ortheir own teams, right?
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (30:20):
yes.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_ (30:21):
that's where they, uh, identified the
need that we need to strengthencore leadership team.
Um, and, uh, uh, then oftenevery company in their stage
reached, reaches this, this, uh,critical point where founders,
uh, uh, realized that, uh, theyare the bottleneck in terms of
resources and they need to, uh,you know, uh, get more things
(30:43):
done.
Um, um, and, uh, And sometimesyou hire, um, uh, consultants.
Sometimes you hire, uh, a third,um, uh, COO or someone who can,
you know, join in the C suit andhelp.
Sometimes you hire chief ofstaff.
And in our case, they decidedfor chief of staff.
And that's how, uh, that's howI, uh, joined.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_08 (31:03):
Do you happen to know how they
heard about chief of staff?
Like why they wanted a chief ofstaff?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (31:08):
Uh, yes.
So in Germany, um, there wasalso, so we, we used to have,
um, um, Uh, a role called, uh,referent for the
Geschäftsführung and that means,um, kind of an assistant or
founders associate.
Literal translation would befounders associate.
Um, so somewhere such kind ofrole did exist, uh, in German,
(31:32):
uh, ecosystem.
Also in politics, uh, this roleis quite common, um, but
recently it has been verypopular in startup world as
well.
And, um, uh, if I remembercorrectly, one of the CEOs, uh,
just researched what role, uh,makes, uh, more sense.
So they didn't want someone, uh,who would just, uh, Go in the
(31:55):
meetings and take notes and doproject management.
They wanted, uh, some morestrategic input and, um, who can
get into topics a bit moredeeper and help the
organization, um, uh, as a wholeand be a, uh, so, so, uh, there
they, they identified that thechief of staff title, um, works
well.
(32:15):
Uh, I think initially they hadfounders associate or in German
as the German title for it, thereferent, uh, for referent in
for Geschäftsführung, uh, andthat didn't work out that well.
So the people that they weregetting, uh, or the last, uh,
person, uh, who was here, um,that set up didn't, didn't
(32:35):
deliver much.
Um, and then they learned fromthe experience and, um, uh,
then, uh, yeah, uh, upgraded thetitle to Chief of Staff.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (32:44):
Yes.
And it's funny.
I work with founders andmanagement teams at all these
different phases of the companythat you're talking about.
So start up to, Oh, we're morethan like five to 10 people.
So we can't just stand up, youknow, over the cubicle and kind
of talk about something we werebeyond that.
And then other inflection pointsthat come further down the line
with, you know, 50 people, ahundred people doing, you know,
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (33:03):
Um,
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_0 (33:06):
and I love how you, how you
described it, which is manyfounders and CEOs will, will
build up and develop their teamsand functional areas, but they
kind of miss doing that forthemselves and their leadership.
And when they come to thatcritical juncture, that is where
you would bring in a chief ofstaff.
So I think that's a nice way todescribe that, but, um, yes, any
(33:30):
advice you would give tosomeone.
Going from consulting to being achief of staff.
So following the same path youdid, is there something where,
oh my gosh, if I would haveknown this at the beginning,
life would have been so mucheasier.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (33:47):
I'd say clarifying the
responsibilities andunderstanding your role, uh,
during the interview process,um, is, is very critical, um,
depending on which, uh, size,uh, of company you join.
So now, um, also in bigcompanies, the role is becoming
very popular.
(34:08):
um, so like chief of staff role,history and in, um, uh, White
House.
And then, you know, all acrossthe world in politics, the role
became a bit more popular andthen in startup world slash tech
ecosystem.
But now in Germany, we also haveincorporates, uh, so Siemens,
uh, uh, One of the largestGerman company has a chief of
staff role.
(34:28):
So depending on, you know, uh,how mature the company is, um, I
think, uh, if, if you are goingfor mature companies, I think
it's, it's, it's pretty fine.
But if you're going for, let'ssay startups or smaller
companies, um, then reallyunderstanding what the founder,
uh, needs, uh, from the role,because, uh, depending on
company, you.
(34:49):
Could be doing completedifferent things, uh,
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_08 (34:52):
It
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025 (34:53):
expect, you know, a polar apart from,
uh, one another, each other.
And, uh, that's really, uh,getting this clarity, um, uh,
during the interview process,uh, and then questioning
yourself, whether, uh, this issomething really that you want
to want to do.
And, uh, you want to add value,uh, asking yourself, whether
(35:15):
what you want to do in next fiveyears, uh, Whether the step that
you're taking would, would, uh,you know, contribute to your,
your goal or not.
Um, that's, that's, I think the,the core thing, um, that, that
I'd say, because during, as Iwas interviewing, I have had a
lot of experiences, funnyexperiences where people just
put titles, like, Chief ofStaff, I don't know, somewhere
(35:40):
they found it.
Sounds sexy, let's use it.
Sounds better than FoundersAssociate.
Uh, you know, maybe you attractAlso, sometimes people just put
titles to attract better talent,which is not a bad strategy.
But then the responsibilitiesand intellectual challenges and,
yeah, what the role Uh, thelearnings, what, what the role
(36:02):
has to offer other than, uh,monetary compensation to the
person also needs to match, uh,with the title.
And, um, so I think, uh, thereI'd, I'd, uh, uh, encourage
everyone to do a decent duediligence.
Um, that's one thing.
Um, I think second is, uh, as Isaid, chief of staff.
(36:22):
does mean, um, uh, you, you arethe, you are the hotfix guy,
right?
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (36:28):
Yes.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_17 (36:28):
You, something doesn't work.
You go and fix it.
Uh, you are that plumber, youare that electrician.
So you, uh, you, you know, um,um, so this, this, um, People
have to like, you have to makesure for yourself that, uh, this
is something you would enjoydoing.
Because compared to justanalyzing, uh, or reading theory
(36:51):
on how to, um, uh, let's sayfinding the best, uh, optimal
way or best tool to, in theory,to, to fix the pipe and then
doing it yourself are twodifferent skills.
Um, um, so, so,
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (37:04):
that term before, but I love it.
Like a chief of staff in thestartup phase is absolutely an
executive hot fixer.
Like that is what you're doingall day long.
So that's amazing.
Um, Vivek, I know thatmentorship is important to you.
So
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_ (37:17):
Mm-hmm
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_08 (37:18):
on mentorship and how do you
approach that?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_ (37:21):
Mm-hmm Um.
So I have been blessed, um, uh,throughout my career to have
amazing people, um, willing tomentor, um, um, uh, me.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I, I stillbenefit from that, uh, a lot of,
uh, consulting partners.
Uh, when I was at theuniversity, um, I could directly
(37:42):
get in touch with them who have,like, 10 years of experience in
consulting and who could, uh,just shape, uh, answer almost
every question that I had and,you know, provide really
concrete guidance from theirexperience.
And, um, so, yeah, uh, I do thata lot, uh, reach out to people,
uh, use university networks,use, uh, uh, uh, alumni, uh,
(38:04):
networks and so on.
And, and, you know, benefit alot from just experiences of
people.
Um, and I try to give that backto the, uh, society as well.
Um, so I have been mentoring,um, uh, a lot of engineers and a
lot of B school grads, um, intogetting into consulting, uh,
just, uh, especially now Bschool, uh, grads, especially
(38:27):
as, as, uh, the, the transitionfrom engineering to B school as
well as, uh, startups, um, and,uh, yeah, that's something that
I'd, Encourage people to justreach out to to people whom they
think that they can help.
There are ample amounts ofplatforms nowadays as well,
where you can, you know,platforms that you can leverage
(38:47):
to to seek some mentorship.
If let's say your uni or thecompanies you have worked in do
not have a structured mentormentoring program.
emily-sander_1_01-09-2025_ (38:58):
Yes.
And what are you excited aboutnow?
Or is it kind of in the techspace and the startup space
strategy?
What excites you now?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (39:07):
Um, I mean, so far, uh, Chief of
Staff work has been fascinating,so, uh, that does excite me,
just the work in itself.
Um, I, uh, I get to do thingsthat I get, uh, that I like, um,
and, uh, that's, that'smotivating.
Impact has been the core ofeverything that I have done so
(39:27):
far.
I love when something that Ihave built is actually used and
creates value.
There is no better feeling thanthis.
No better satisfaction in termsof work.
So that's amazing and that'sdriving me well so far.
But let's say down the line, fewyears, uh, I'd like to build
(39:52):
something big, uh, on my own.
So maybe found something and,you know, create some, some,
some product, um, uh, myself,um, and that, that as well,
working directly with founders.
I'm also, uh, uh, doingfreelance consulting, uh, slash,
uh, interim chief of staffadvising a lot of, uh, um, small
companies and startups here inGermany.
(40:14):
Uh, so, uh, that is, you know, abit of, uh, freelance work, side
gigs that I'm doing, uh, andboth the main tasks, side gigs,
everything is kind of quitealigned to where I want to
reach, um, um, in few years.
So yes, uh, excited about whatI'm doing now and excited about
where it leads me.
(40:36):
how all this contributes to whatI want to build at the end.
emily-sander_1_01-09-202 (40:39):
That's a great place to be when you're
excited about what you're doingnow and then where that's going
to lead you.
So with that, if anyone haslistened to you and says, Oh, I
actually would love to, youknow, have a brainstorm session
or just bounce some ideas aroundwith Vivek, where's the best
place for people to find you orconnect with you?
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_170 (40:55):
Um, LinkedIn, uh, do reach out
there.
I'm quite active, uh, onLinkedIn.
So, um, yes, that would be, uh,would be the place to, to reach
out.
emily-sander_1_01-09 (41:06):
Excellent.
We'll have your LinkedIninformation in the show notes
for people, but Vivek, so thankyou so much for your time and
for sharing your wonderfulinsights and theoretical and
practical tips on building trustand moving from consulting to
chief of staff.
Thank you so much.
vivek-modi_1_01-09-2025_ (41:21):
Emily, it was an absolute pleasure
being here.
Thanks for inviting me.
It was lovely talking to you.
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