June 19, 2025 • 64 mins
What happens when the justice system refuses to correct its mistakes? Edward Harrison's story is a chilling reminder of how difficult it is to overturn a wrongful conviction, even with compelling evidence of innocence.
Harrison describes being accused of raping a woman while he was already incarcerated for a parole violation – a physical impossibility that should have invalidated the case immediately. The complainant, described as a schizophrenic woman with addiction issues, later admitted to fabricating the allegation because she feared losing her bed at a treatment facility. Despite this recantation and numerous procedural violations – including detective-written statements, mismatched physical descriptions, and improperly handled evidence – Harrison was pressured into going to trial for a sexual misconduct he did not commit.
The consequences have been devastating. Harrison must register as a sex offender, undergo regular polygraph tests, and faces significant barriers to employment despite his qualifications. For over two years, Staten Island's Conviction Investigation Unit has possessed all evidence proving his innocence but continues to stall with claims they're "still reviewing" materials. Since its formation in 2019, this unit has overturned only one conviction, compared to hundreds reviewed by similar units in other NYC boroughs.
This conversation pulls back the curtain on Staten Island's notoriously conservative justice system, where judges, lawyers, and police officers live and work together, creating an environment resistant to acknowledging mistakes. Harrison's fight for vindication highlights how wrongful convictions disproportionately impact Black and Brown communities and the uphill battle faced by those seeking justice.
Have you witnessed similar injustices in your community? Share your thoughts and help spread awareness about the need for meaningful conviction review processes that operate with integrity and urgency.
Follow our IG & YouTube for live updates @LFTGRadio
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, Godspeed.
It's your boy, Elliot Carter,on the line with my OG, Ed.
We're reporting live from thegutter.
I got some serious stuff totalk about today, so let's get
into it.
Introduce yourself, Ed.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, my name you know everybody call me Ed.
My name's Edward Harrison.
You know I'm here with the goodbrother so I can make it happen
and let it be known.
You know that the jiu-jitsusystem out there in Richmond
County, you and let it be known.
You know that the jiu-jitsusystem out there in Richmond
County, you know they're justlike any other county.
You know they falsely convictpeople and they know it and they
(00:34):
don't feel, like you know, theyshould have to overturn a case
or any cases that they falselyaccuse somebody of.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I agree that they falsely accuse somebody of.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I agree, you know, staten Island specifically is
the most corrupt borough when itcomes to police in New York,
exactly, and a real, how wouldyou say it?
Like it's a real conservativeborough?
Yeah, definitely, because a lotof judges, lawyers, police
officers, they live out there sothey actually feel they can do
(01:07):
what they want to do with, no,you know, no consequences.
Yeah, no repercussions.
Exactly, just like you know,when they have their stat now in
advance, that covers for themAbsolutely.
Yeah, they'll put in what we'vedone, but they won't say you
know what the judicial systemdone, what the police department
(01:29):
has done, or any of the errorsmade by the system.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
You know they always target our young black men.
You know, that's a fact.
I agree with you.
I agree with you, that's a fact.
So let's get into what was yourwrongful conviction for?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
My wrongful conviction.
It started out as rape in asecond degree but as I was going
on and challenging it and goingthrough my hearings, they broke
it down to the less includedoffense of the indictment.
It was an indictment of twoaccounts and one was rape in a
second degree.
They tried to fancify it bysaying it was like oh, it's a
(02:11):
nonviolent, just take the copout.
I wasn't taking that because Ididn't do anything.
So they broke it down to sexualmisconduct, you know, under the
penal law of 130.20,subdivision 1.
So, and to this day, becausewhen people ask me, you know,
how did they pick you out out of?
(02:32):
You know, out of everybody.
And that's a question I stillcan't even answer.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Well, let's get into what the situation was so the
viewers could understand.
So they're saying they startedoff by saying it was second
degree rape.
Yes, all right.
So what was the actual incidentthat occurred where they said
you allegedly raped a?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
woman.
Well, they were saying thatsome female, she was a
schizophrenic drug addict, drugaddict, self-mutilator, and they
were stating that she said shewas raped.
(03:13):
And I don't know how, I don'tknow where.
You know there was a lot ofstuff with it.
But I know, like the lawyerthat I had at the time, somebody
said he passed away GregoryClark.
He said if it would have been ablack female, or even in a
different barrel, he said itwouldn't even have went past the
precinct.
(03:33):
So you know the rape conviction.
You know once it was like goingthrough the hearings.
You know I was taken into trial.
They broke it down as sexualmisconduct.
And why did they do that?
Because they didn't want to,because they know they couldn't
Like when you go to trial Idon't know if people's familiar
(03:54):
with it when you go to trialthey complain it.
They must come to trial.
Only reason that they don'tcome to trial, if there's, you
know they're deceased.
Deceased they're really,they're impaired or they are
minor.
And then they have to, prettymuch have to go through certain
channels if they're a minor.
But once they realized I wastaking it all away, they broke
(04:17):
it down as sexual misconduct andyou copped out to that, not
with with the track.
Oh, and you blew Because it'sstill on the indictment.
It's still part of theindictment, even though, like
some people think, because, likeon indictment, you have certain
accounts.
You have certain accounts onthe indictment, so your lowest
(04:38):
account might be a misdemeanor,but you're still under
indictment.
Yeah, I get it.
I get it.
You understand what I'm saying.
Like, once you're indictedthat's what it is so you might
have count one, count two, countthree, so on and so forth.
Mine was just a two-countindictment Rape in a second
degree and sexual misconduct.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Once they dismissed the rape, they must have thought
that you were going to just copout and not take it to trial.
Right, you were going to justcop out and not take it to trial
, right.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So I did my hearings, I went through that and Mr
Clark had told me he said listen, we got him.
I waited, waited, waited.
It came back.
I didn't happen.
(05:28):
But that's because I was likepretty much the fall guy for
this person that they allegedlysaid was raped who was this
person?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
what's?
What's this female's name?
Because if she's making falseallegations, I think the world
should know who she is and beaware of her yeah, uh, they said
her name is, uh, sarah warnerso you've never had any
encounters with sarah warner Idon't even know her, so how did
you get picked to?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
be the fall guy.
That's that's what I'm tryingto find out to this day.
You know how did she pick me?
I?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
remember when we first spoke about this.
I think you said if I'm notmistaken, you was actually
incarcerated during the timethat the incident occurred.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Exactly, I was on a parole violation when the
detectives came to see me andthat's how, like, as time went
on, I started finding out thatthis complainant, you know, was
schizophrenic, self-mutilatordrug addict.
Also, you know, it came outthat the complainant, sarah
(06:35):
Warner, you know she repentedher statement.
She said that because she wassaying that they wouldn't let
her go out and smoke, by thepaperwork and saying that they
didn't let her go out and smokea cigarette.
I guess she was in a programcalled Chat House and they
didn't let her go out and smoke.
(06:55):
I guess she just left and theysaid they found her wandering
and she was drunk or high orwhatever the case may be.
And then in the dd5 files theywere showing how she was cursing
them out.
I don't want to deal with youpeople, fuck out of here.
(07:17):
This, that and third, and thenthe last dd5, I guess they did
they put on the medication,whatever the case may be.
And then they did they put on amedication, whatever the case
may be, and then they did itagain.
I'm just going by what thelawyer was telling me at that
point.
So then it come to find out inthe paperwork that I have, and I
had sent it to you where shesaid, oh, I was never raped.
(07:39):
I lied and I devised a story ofbeing raped because she thought
she was going to lose her bedat the chat house she was at.
I guess it's like a drugprogram or people that deal with
like or have like schizophrenicwhatever.
And I did my research onschizophrenia.
Schizophrenia doesn't mean like.
A person is like fully crazywhat it is.
(08:02):
They compile stories.
Yeah, definitely so, definitely.
So you know, when they try tosay that, oh, she was
schizophrenic, this and thatlike, or even if she was under
the fluence of drug, that's whenI had started doing a lot of
research on it.
When a person is under thefluence of drugs or anything of
that nature, and if you have sexwith them, technically there's
(08:25):
no, it's not consensual.
Yeah, so I'm telling you know, Istarted like explaining to
people that you know, if yousuppose you don't even know this
person, and they come up with astory like that, like, how do
you counter that?
Yeah, then on top of that, theytry to say that, oh, we got a
(08:51):
dna.
This was all like in thebeginning of the case, but as I
got an attorney, an attorneyfound out that the district
attorney's office not a lab, butthey they office held
somebody's DNA, or they held DNAthat they allegedly stated was
mine, but they held it for ayear.
How do you?
(09:12):
You know?
It was something similar tolike the Grant Williams case.
Yeah, when they, they or theywere saying they had a hat with
DNA, come to find out they hadno hat, or if they did have a
hat, the DNA was tainted.
Once you keep it in your, inyour office, it's tainted now.
So whose DNA is it?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
yeah, my whole thing is this if you could clearly
establish that you wasincarcerated during the time of
the incident, how come you can'tget it overturned, because
obviously you weren't even inthe vicinity of her when the
incident occurred?
And then, second, I want toknow was there a rape case?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Right, that's what I'm trying to.
They're saying that they sentit to the lab after a year, but
if I'm already locked up, I'mupstate.
It's a case called SINGA.
Right People versus SINGA.
They charged a guy.
In his case it was a murder.
He was already upstate as hewas getting ready to come home.
(10:18):
They come to pick him up andthey said it was a sealed
indictment that was similar tomine's.
Mine's, it was just a sexoffender case.
So, that being said, theyviolated.
It's considered.
Also, it was proof that whenthe detectives came to see me
(10:39):
when I was upstate, there was noaudio, no video.
There was nothing.
It was a statement that wassupposed to have been produced.
Well, it was produced, but thenit was Gregory Clark started
questioning the detectiveDetective Anthony DeMaria, that
(11:00):
he actually stated in thehearing because you know I have
my waiting hearing he wrote thestatement.
He wrote the statementAbsolutely and he actually
stated, like when some of thepaperwork I sent you it's in
there and Mr Clark wasquestioning him on it Like, what
do you mean?
You wrote the statement?
(11:20):
You mean to tell me you had theman in the room.
You had him in there for likean hour or two hours and you
only wrote a half a page.
Also, he stated that when theyasked him, like you know, make a
description of me, he said Iwas like 5'10", 220 pounds.
(11:41):
I'm 5'6".
You understand what I'm saying?
That, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And how much did you weigh at the time?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
At that time I was only like 205.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, so that was just completely off, right, and
he also.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Did he provide?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
a description.
That was the description.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
He didn't even go into all of that, like he said,
said you know I was 5, 10 210pounds.
You know I was light-skinned,I'm not light-skinned, yeah, you
understand.
He also admitted that he issuedmy Miranda warnings and see,
(12:25):
all this was done like post theCentral Park 5 case.
So now you were supposed tofollow a certain protocol.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Especially after that case.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
It wasn't even followed.
Also from the gate, like Istated.
You know, the complainantstated that she lied.
I have five different uh, dd-5files, right, I have.
It was five differentstatements that was made.
The last statement is when theyput on a medication, whatever
(13:00):
the case, and she admitted thatshe lied.
So my thing is how did you,like you know, stat now that she
lied?
So my thing is how did you,like you know, stat now?
And it's so corrupted with allof that, how did you even get an
indictment?
And then, when you look at,because they said she kicked me
out in the photo, right, but nowwhen you go through all the
paperwork prior to theindictment is saying unknown,
(13:24):
unknown, unknown, so you don'tknow who it is.
If the person is unknown, howdid she pick me out in the photo
, right?
I wasn't even on the scene, Iwas on a parole violation.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, and what were you on a parole violation for?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I was on a parole violation because at that time
you know they was violatingpeople using drugs and this and
that and I had caught amisdemeanor for a misdemeanor
assault on what's her name.
They used to live in West I'mnot West Brighton, stapleton,
(14:02):
her name is Janisa, I don't knowher last name, but prior to
that she had spit on me, spitsome food on me, so when I seen
her I slapped her for spittingon me and it was a misdemeanor.
It was a misdemeanor assault.
So they gave me nine months fora misdemeanor assault and at
(14:26):
that time, like I stated, theywas violating me for that.
So after I did my nine months Idid six months out of the nine
they sent me upstate For aviolation, right, for a parole
violation, and, being that I hada violent crime, I was category
one, so I had 18 months On topof the six you just did, exactly
(14:49):
.
So I was gone for like 24months and then when they
brought me back down for thecase to fight the case, I laid
up like 11 more months.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah, that's crazy.
So how long were youincarcerated for before they
actually brought you down andalleged that you raped this
woman?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
The 24th, I was locked up like 20, 23 and a half
months yeah, that's crazy.
And it was like the day I wassupposed to get paroled to come
home.
What they did?
They had packed me up likemaybe like three, four days
prior to that and I'm like, okay, I think I'm going down to
Lincoln or Edge one of themspots, because they was open at
(15:32):
that time they brought me toUlster County, put me in a box
you know they had me in a shoeinstead of general population,
put me there.
The date of my release was I, Ithink was a Monday or it was a
matter of fact it was a Tuesdaybecause that Monday was a
holiday.
They brought me back down and Iwas like what's this?
(15:56):
Oh, this is the breaking of theseal of an indictment, you know
.
And I was like about what?
And they was like well, you'vebeen accused of rape in the
second degree.
And I was like what?
So the first lawyer that theygave me?
She kept saying I don't evenremember her name.
(16:19):
She kept saying, oh, just takethe cop out, it's nothing.
It's like it's my first day incourt.
I don't even know what's goingon.
They offer you one and a halfto three, just take it.
And I was like, no, I'm nottaking nothing.
Next time I went to court I hadGregory Clark.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, that's the right thing.
When you have a lawyer likethat that you don't even know
and the first thing they'retelling you to do is take the
cop out or take whatever the DAis offering you.
My advice to everybodylistening fire them.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Exactly Because we should be treated as if we was
like police officer or anybodyelse.
Let me go to my preliminaryhearings.
You had due diligence.
See, it's a thing, it's calleddue diligence.
Yeah, well, I've been arrested.
I got a nice number.
So for you to put a sealedindictment, pretty much, you
(17:14):
saying you don't know where I'mat, you don't know my
whereabouts.
But then you sent twodetectives to come talk to me
all the way upstate.
So you know my whereabouts andas I I'm in the system, I have a
nice number.
I'm not saying I have a halofull of my head.
You know what I mean Because,like I tell people at that time,
(17:34):
I'm a robber.
You know what I'm saying.
I ain't no rapist, I ain't noburglar, I'm none of that.
I'm a robber.
Well, I was you know, since I'vebeen home yeah, back in the day
, that's what I did, so to beaccused of something like this
(17:55):
and Richmond County, like thelawyer I have, she's a she's a
good lawyer, but it's like shedoesn't want to rock the boat
because she knows how StatenIsland is.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Oh, the one that told you you should just take the
cop out.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
No, my lawyer I have now.
Oh, okay, yeah, I have a lawyernow and she submitted under a
conviction investigative unit.
They don't call it theconviction review unit or Staten
Island, it's called theconviction investigative unit.
They don't call it theconviction review unit or stat
now, it's called the convictioninvestigative unit and they have
the case.
They've been holding that casefor two years.
(18:35):
All the evidence that's stackedagainst them.
They've been holding it for twoyears and for the last 10
months they've been telling mylawyer because when I call, I
try to call her like every othermonth or once a month to see
what's going on and she's saying, well, the district, the ada on
it, is saying that they'restill going through the uh, the
(18:58):
grand jury minutes.
So I'm I'm staying like how doyou go through something for 10
months?
Yeah, like that's a stalltactic.
It is.
I want people to know that youknow Richmond County like they.
Only because I looked it up, Idid my research only one person,
one person that the convictioninvestigative unit overturned a
(19:23):
case and that was Grant Williams.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And how many years has that department been active?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Since 2019.
They stayed on paper when Ilooked it up through Google.
Theirs started in 2019.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And how many cases did they process for only one
case?
No, you said one case wasoverturned, but how many cases
actually went through thatdepartment that they processed
that weren't overturned?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Per.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Google that.
I looked it up.
It stated that it was only thatone case, grant Williams.
No, yeah, I get what you'resaying.
You're saying that GrantWilliams was the only case
overturn overturned.
I'm asking how many casesweren't, how many cases failed
to get overturned?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
they're saying that.
They're saying that that wasthe only case.
Yeah, it's not always the onlycase that they've reviewed oh,
okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
so they haven't, they're just inactive, they're
not doing shit.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right, and then they say that or one, like when I was
going through it.
They're saying that at one timethe new district attorney,
which is Michael McElhorn, hewas stating something about, oh,
they didn't have the funds.
And then, as time went on, theyfound out.
Well, I found out throughreading and through my little
research they had received$425,000 for that.
(20:49):
You know, because every you'renot going to sit there and say
that all these other boroughs,even certain counties, when they
get their money for thedistrict attorney's office that
you didn't fund, you know StatenIsland, you didn't give them
enough money to start aconviction investigative unit.
(21:10):
You're not going to say that,like you know, you can tell the
people that and it sounds good,especially the people out there,
because, like, as I stated,there's a bunch of judges,
lawyers and police officers, sothey're going to be shaking
their head when he sayssomething.
I'm like, yeah, that's true,but it's not, it's not so with
that Grant Williams case.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
How long did it take for them to review the case and
overturn it?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
This case was.
I think it was like 22 months.
It's what like about 22, say,rounded off 23 months.
So what like by 22, theyrounded off 23 months.
They took, you know to evenanswer it and they answered his
in July of 2021.
(21:55):
So since then they haven't doneanother case, and I know mine's
they had mine since 23, 23, may8th, because I have the
paperwork where my lawyers havesent it in.
It was around May 8th of 2023and you're just sitting on a
(22:17):
case with all of this stackedagainst it and you you saying,
like you still reviewing thegrand jury minutes yeah, grant
Williams is un right.
Yeah, that's un.
They used to call him boo-booback in the days.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, I think my uncle helped him come home.
Yeah, he was in Green Haven.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Londonhad his hands in that.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, but I know he had went through the Innocent
Project also.
I guess he helped him.
You know, get through to getthrough the Innocent Project.
I don't know and I'm not goingto.
You know, spread nothing false.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Have you reached out to London and let him know the
situation that you're in?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, well, I had talked to him one time because
he had called my nephew, Ricker,and we was in a car together,
Definitely, and I had spoke tohim then and I think at that
time he was in Firepoint Becauseme and him was in Sing Sing
together.
When I had started that bit off, we was in Sing Sing and he's
(23:27):
the one that really opened myeyes to the law when I started
explaining certain things to himand he was like, listen,
because he worked in the lawlibrary when I was in Sing Sing.
Yeah, that's a fact.
So he was like, I'm going toget you in the law library.
I gave him my name, my number.
He got me pulled down in thelaw library.
I gave him my name, my number,he got me pulled down and that's
from that point on, you know, Iwould go down there every day.
(23:50):
And one thing I could say abouthim he down for his business
when it comes to that law and heain't going to sugarcoat it.
And he let me know.
He said listen, no tellingwhere.
If I'm going to stay here, youstay here, whatever the case.
So, no telling, if I'm going tostay here, you stay here,
whatever the case.
So take this book read it, readup on it.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
What book was that that he told you to read up on?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
It was the Lawyer's Cooperative.
That's the.
It's a lawyer.
He's a high-powered lawyer fromout of Rochester and he wrote
that book, the Lawyer'sCooperative.
Every I think it's like everyyear or every two years he comes
out with a more upgraded book.
Yeah, so I had got that bookand, if I'm not mistaken, it was
(24:35):
like an older book, theLawyer's Cooperative.
But it's all good and he hadgave me that because to this day
, I still got the book, theactual one that he gave you.
Yeah, it's to this day I stillgot the book, the actual one
that he gave you.
Yeah, it's called the lawyer'scooperative.
I brought it home with me andeverything, because it was like,
you know, with certain peoplegive you certain things.
It's like it has like a, avalue to it.
(24:58):
Yeah, definitely.
So I took that as likesentimental, valueimental value
to it, exactly, and that's how Itook that.
I was like, okay, this iscoming to me that brought me for
the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
You still have it today, so that speaks of its
significance.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Exactly.
And you know, my thing is likewhy?
You know, I hear people theyspeak about certain things, but
they don't talk about RichmondCounty, they'll talk about
Manhattan.
Manhattan last year was likethe beginning of this year.
I don't want to call it wrongbecause I know you know we're
(25:38):
about truth and facts, but Iknow this one case that was just
recently overturned inManhattan.
It was a Spanish brother andwhat I'm getting at is that
Manhattan said that theyreviewed over 500 cases.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Meanwhile in Staten Island.
We've reviewed one, reviewedone.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I think that number alone should cause some type of
internal investigation, because,like, what are y'all doing?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Right, you mean to tell me you only did two cases?
Right, you didn't even do two.
You got one in your office nowand you did one.
So you mean to tell me theydon't need a federal probe?
Yeah, I agree, they need afederal probe to go.
I agree, they need a federalprobe to go into their records
and find out, like, why are allthe boroughs and the counties
(26:33):
you're not even reviewing cases?
Yeah, I agree, because you'renot going to sit here and say
you've been there since 2019,which makes you seem like you're
(26:54):
the last of all the fiveboroughs to even have a
conviction investigation unit,because you have Brooklyn,
queens, manhattan, the Bronx,all these other boroughs.
They have uh, uh, there's somecall it a conviction review
units.
Staten Island, cause, there'suh conviction investigating unit
, just like when you have the uh, what's that Uh finishing
(27:14):
project?
Then you have, like the uh, thebranches.
That's off to it, because Iguess anybody can't go under the
uh that, that that said off toit, because I guess anybody
can't go under the uh, thatthat's saying yeah, innocent
project.
So you have, like uh, aninnocent initiative.
Uh, yeah, just a bunch ofdifferent right, it's like it's
(27:35):
like a tree and you havebranches, that that that go out.
It's called like bifurcating.
So when you, when you havethese other things of these
lawyers, they don't have thejuice Like the Innocent Project
where they can get your stuffout to the media quick and
that's why they answer so manythings so fast.
Yeah, because they have theresources.
(27:56):
Yeah, and again, like it was anincident where when I went to a
lawyer's office since I've beenhome and pretty much they was
like once they found out it wasRichmond County, they backed up
Then a few times, lawyers, youtalk to them and they'll be like
(28:17):
, okay, you know where is thisat.
I said, well, it happened inRichmond County.
Oh well, you know, we only docivil.
It's like everybody's kind oflike frightened yeah, they start
getting cold?
Yeah, because it's soconservative, and a lot of
lawyers you know some of themmight live out there and they
don't want to rock the boat andkeep it real, which is like you
(28:40):
know how they say it justicedelayed, justice denied yeah,
and that's what it's like.
I even went and spoke to YusufSalam's mother about trying to
help me.
You know they don't do legalstuff, but they're supposed to
be like.
You know, somebody said theycan get your stuff out there.
(29:01):
They have an influence on themedia Right, and I'm still on
the media Right and I'm stillwaiting for her phone call.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, well, we're going to get your stuff out
there now.
Do you think?
Can your evidence vindicate you, and are they facts or truth?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, everything I have is facts.
The only way they wouldn't ifthey rubber-stamped it, but if
they follow the letter of thelaw and they see once the person
recanted and with all theevidence stacked against them.
As far as the detectives wrotethe statement, they issued my
Miranda warnings.
The complainant is aschizophrenic, self-mutilator
(29:43):
drug addict.
All that alone should have putthem in a thing.
Be like you know what.
It wasn't even supposed to gopast the prison, pretty much.
Yeah, that's, that's crazy,yeah.
And then I you know, as Istated, you know how do you get
dna.
You're saying you have dna butyou hold it in your office for a
(30:05):
whole year prior to you evensending it, I guess, to a lab or
wherever they sent it.
And then they said it's mine.
Anybody could that could beanybody.
You just stated it was mine.
And this was during a time when,like it was, you know us
(30:25):
prisoners at that time, they wasenforcing prisoners to give up
their DNA, like blood orwhatever the case may be, and
they was pretty much saying likewell, docs.
I don't know if the governmentwas saying it, but I know docs,
when I was upstate, was sayinglike, well, and if you don't
give it to us.
They're going to forcefullytake it, which means they're
(30:46):
going to assault you, cuff youand take your blood.
Yeah, you know your uncle, Iknow he tell you what it is
about, how docs has been goingon, like in Marcy, mid-state and
a few of these other prisons,attica, where they was really
(31:06):
like killing people.
Yeah, you know.
So you know.
With that being said, who's tosay that they didn't take you
know the DNA and say, oh, thisis his or this is his, because
(31:27):
it's happened.
Like I stated with the grantwilliams case, you said you had
a baseball cap with dna in it.
Now you can't find the dna orthe cap yeah, it's out of pocket
.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
So let me ask you this how has this false
conviction of sexual misconductaffected you in your life?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
It's affected me because, like certain jobs I
might go to and even if I havethe qualifications, once they do
a background check, that mixesit.
That automatically mixes it.
You know, my family andeverybody, they all know I'm
innocent, so I don't have aproblem with that.
(32:08):
But you know, before I got allthe paperwork, some people they
look at that and oh man, did hedo it?
Is he telling the truth?
He didn't do it.
You understand what I'm saying,so that skepticism, skepticism
and people's heads, yeah,skepticism, and people's heads
(32:29):
Like, like what's going on?
Well, how did you get accused?
You know what I mean and youknow most people.
They get brainwashed sometimesby the system.
They feel like, well, if you,if you were accused of it, you
did it.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah.
So do you think this convictiontook a shot at your reputation?
Yes, it did.
Yes, it did.
Do you feel like niggas in thestreets started dealing with you
differently after that?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
To be honest, like, especially like on Staten Island
, people will say things.
But when you present they won'tsay it.
But you can feel it Like BeanieSeaton said one time you know
the handshake ain't matching thesmile.
Yeah, you feel me, thathandshake ain't matching the
(33:19):
smile, ain't matching the smile.
But I'm getting it out to thepeople now, like for all those
who were saying it behind myback or whatever.
You know, with the paperwork, Ihave it all.
Ask me, I'll show it to you.
You understand what I'm saying.
I got everything to show that.
The lies and the deception ofRichmond County, yeah, so it did
(33:46):
.
It did Like me personally, likeI still move on with my life in
whatever the case may be.
But when that's like over yourhead, you know it's hard to get
like certain type of employmentor jobs it's hard to.
Some people might be like well,you know, okay, you got paid
(34:10):
with, you didn't do it, but yougo to the crib or whatever the
case may be, and it's like theydon't want you around their kids
or something.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And it wasn't even kids.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
It's a full, it's an adult.
It was an adult, yeah, and Igot daughters of my own, so
that's one thing I always hadpride of myself in.
Prior to the case, Like I neverhad that on my record, yeah was
(34:47):
telling him how do you?
You know you're trying to getthis man home with the
registration and it's a sexualmisconduct.
He doesn't even have a history,no background, no nothing.
All is just robberies.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
So do you have to register.
Are you sex offender because ofthis?
Yeah, so do you have toregister?
Are you sex offender because ofthis?
Yeah, so what would getting?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
this conviction overturned mean to you it would
be like like a form of parole.
You understand what I'm sayingnow.
It's like you made the paroleboard, yeah, you know.
And it's like I hear people sayafter the conviction it gets
overturned, oh, I'm not angry,you know, as time went on I let
(35:32):
the anger go and moved on withmy life and just you know I
fought this to get here.
Anybody with that over theirhead, you know, has some form of
anger, like let's keep it real.
The lawyer probably tell them.
(35:53):
Don't say you're angry orwhatever, because it looks like
you know you want to bevindictive or whatever.
How are you going to bevindictive or whatever?
How are you going to bevindictive to the judicial
system?
You can't win that fight, yeah,but you can be angry.
You understand what I'm sayingnow?
Not at all.
What do I look like?
Trying to go after them?
I'm fighting two brothers and acousin.
(36:14):
You can't win pretty much, yeah, but you still feel it Like you
know whether it's a murder, arobbery, a burglary, and you get
it overturned, you still.
You spent time in prison forthat.
You was accused of that.
You was looked at now likepeople you know may not even
(36:37):
trust you no more.
So yeah, I'm angry.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
You have every right to be angry.
You know what I'm saying.
If you're falsely convicted ofsomething that you didn't do and
it's altered your life.
You haven't been able to find,you know work that you're
qualified for.
You got people side-eyeing youand looking at you suspicious.
You have to register as a sexoffender and you're not a sex
offender.
(37:05):
So my heart goes out to you.
I feel for you.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yesterday.
Matter of fact, yesterday I wasat parole.
Now, like they take like sexoffenders, they take their
picture.
Sex offenders, they take theirpicture.
I think it's like every 90 daysyou have to take a photo.
Yesterday I had to take a photo.
(37:28):
Was it a photo?
No, I did the polygraph.
That's something that you dofor a sex offender.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Like why would you polygraph me, and what are some
of the questions that they'reasking you when they polygraph?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
you.
Well, I had told them that youcan't ask me any legal, like the
first time they did it, theywas asking me, well, about the
case and I kept denying it.
So when this polygraph cameback, it came back like like I
lied or something because I keptdenying it.
And this is, you know, onceit's focused into, okay, this is
(38:07):
what you was locked up for, andI wasn't even that, for that
parole I'm on now hasn't evennothing to even do with the case
.
It's just the way that thefacility printed out my release
papers.
So now they got me going tothat.
So I did that yesterday and, uh, that they asked.
(38:29):
Well, they couldn't ask menothing yesterday because, like
I told them yesterday, I said,listen, my case is in litigation
now and I can't answer it.
My words to don't answer thesequestions, yeah, you know, but
as far as the podcast oranything I speak on, I'm going
to let it be known I'm andlisten later.
(38:50):
For all that, don't, don'tanswer this question, don't say
this.
This has to be stated.
It has to be stated in therecord, because if I'm falsely
accused, I need somebody to hearit.
I need somebody to even go downto my lawyer's office.
Listen, if you don't have theresources to get it out there,
you know we're going to help younow because now it's out there.
(39:13):
You know people always like tocome on the aftermath.
You understand I'm saying likeonce it's out there or you found
somebody to get it out.
It's like once you get alwayslike to come on the aftermath.
You understand what I'm saying.
Once it's out there or youfound somebody to get it out,
it's like once you get a lawsuit, you could be looking for a
bunch of lawyers to help you out.
They won't help you until thesuit starts being activated.
Now they want to come out toWoodworth.
(39:34):
Listen, we will help yourepresent, we'll participate
with your lawyer and this andthat because now everybody want
a piece of the pie.
Yeah, exactly, you know I havea good lawyer.
She's like, when it comes tolike stagnant, you know like
she's pretty much likepassive-aggressive.
(39:54):
Yeah, you know, but she gotover 45 years of being a lawyer.
I looked up in the lawyer'sdiary.
It's got like 45 years in thelawyer and she's she's excellent
, but she, she knows how StatenIsland is and she doesn't want
to.
You know run after me Right andthey rubber stamp my, my case,
(40:16):
Cause it's pretty much Right andthey rubber stamp my case.
Yeah, Pretty much.
That's how Staten Island is, Ifyou know.
If you get at them, they'regoing to just rubber stamp it.
I know that for a fact becausewhen I was upstate and when you
say rubber stamp.
What do you mean by that?
They're just denied, just likedang stamp.
Ok, it's denied, yeah, andunder the conviction
(40:41):
investigation unit, lawyers, alot of lawyers well, the eight
additional district attorney'sofficers know that.
It's like, uh, pretty much howyou want to put it.
It's like the grand jury.
That's their fault so, andthere's no appeal process for it
.
So you would have to try tocome at them another way.
If they deny it, come with a440 or find a loophole.
(41:02):
That's either a statutory orconstitutional violation to come
after them, and staten allenknows that.
So this is why they they'remilking my case.
They're not doing any othercases.
You know what I mean.
Hopefully brothers from thishere will start like putting in
(41:22):
their paperwork, getting lawyersand putting in their paperwork
to show that.
You know like, let's keep itfair, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I agree.
I hope everything works out foryou and I hope you know you
coming on this podcast and usgetting you out there it
benefits you in some way, right?
Speaker 2 (41:43):
hopefully, like with the paperwork that was sent to
you, it gets out there and whenpeople read it now they can.
You know you still gonna getthe sideways looks, because you
know the case hasn't beenactually overturned.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yeah, just the nature of the case hasn't been
actually overturned.
Yeah, just the nature of thecase is uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Right.
But now that the paperwork isout there, now you know, now
people can be like oh snap, hewas innocent.
Yeah, now they could witnessyour innocence, Right and the
same way you know, like when Iwas locked up, like you know,
sometimes like brothers talkingand they say, like why wait till
it's done?
Whether it's family members oryour homie, whatever the case
(42:27):
may be, whatever you know,identify with people outside of
your family members With thisbeing said now, that's out there
, we need to start.
You know we protest foreverything, but the right thing
we need to protest.
You know in'll protest foreverything but the right thing
we need to protest, you know, infront of this district
attorney's office on RichmondCounty and sound like you know
enough is enough with thesewrongful convictions, because
(42:48):
I'm quite sure you knowespecially us as black and brown
people.
We know we have family membersthat have been falsely accused.
We know we have family membersthat have been falsely accused.
You know why not go in front ofthe district attorney office
out there on Staten Island andmarch in front of them.
(43:08):
You know, request for a federalprobe.
We need a federal probe outhere because there's a bunch of
people that I know that waslocked up with me.
Whether they take a plea or theywent to trial, staten Island
won't even file your notice ofappeal and that's something that
is your lawyer.
That's their last obligation toyou.
(43:29):
I looked that up and everything.
If your lawyer don't file yournotice of appeal, they drop the
ball.
Yeah, you know because drop theball, yeah, you know, because
you can't.
And they always say, well, Itook a plea, this, and that my
lawyer said I can't appeal it,you can't waive a constitutional
(43:50):
right.
So for them to not file yournotice of appeal, that's a
constitutional right.
That's ineffective in the senseof trial counsel.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, and I'm sure you're probably opening a lot of
eyes to things that peopledon't know.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Exactly because one of the last cases that Sonia
Sotomayor you know who that is?
No, she's a United StatesSupreme Court Justice.
She's from out the Bronx.
That's the Spanish lady.
I don't know.
I know she's of Latin descent.
I don't know exactly if she'sDominican, puerto Rican or
whatever the case may be, but Iknow she's of Latin descent and
(44:34):
she's for the people.
You know what I mean.
And she sits up there now inthe United States Supreme Court,
which is the highest court ofthe land.
But she came from the SecondCircuit, which covers things in
the Eastern District, everythingthat's considered under the
Eastern District.
That's where the Second Circuitcovers district.
(44:56):
That's where the Second Circuitcovers.
Her last case prior, or one ofthe last cases, it was Compasano
v US.
She made the actual decision onthat case and she stated in
there that you know it doesn'tmatter, you went to trial, you
take a plea or whatever the casemay be misdemeanor, felony.
(45:18):
The last obligation of a lawyeris to file your notice of
appeal Period.
You know what I'm saying.
If they feel you have nomeritorious issues, they file
your appeal pursuant with anAndes brief, which is California
versus Andes.
That pretty much states thatyou have no issues, no
(45:40):
meritorial issue, but we'regoing to file your appeal so the
appellate court can look to seeif you have any constitutional
issues or statutory issues thatneed to be addressed.
Yeah, you know, as far as likethat I have.
You know brothers get on thething.
(46:02):
They say they know the law.
You know we all know the law,but do we understand the law?
We can read something and belike, okay, I read that, I know
that, but do you understand it?
That's a different issue now.
Yeah, so you know the evidencethat I have.
(46:22):
You know.
Hopefully, you know, they lookat it, review it and stop
playing with it and give me myjust due, give me my vindication
.
Yeah, I agree, you know,instead of working against the
(46:43):
people you're like you wantthese votes.
You know, because you get votedin to be the district attorney,
you want these votes.
You know, do the right thing.
And Grant Williams' caseMichael McEnroe he stated that
you know if cases is beingbrought forth for these wrongful
convictions, he's going to.
(47:03):
You know they're going to moveexpeditiously to right the wrong
.
You know, as it stands rightnow, he's being mendacious.
He's not right in the wrong.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah, well, hopefully we could get the ball rolling
to help you with that.
Before we close out thisinterview, I wanted to ask you
one last question.
Sure, I wanted to ask you to,uh, give us some rodents from
your era.
You know, I'm saying, yeah,let's, let's speak on that real
quick.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah, well, I know like this dude, I don't know.
I don't know his government,but they used to call they.
They called him nitty at thetime.
Okay, he's, he's like up theremy age, if not older.
You know, he got matter of fact.
He, he got a, a baby from hisuh sister named daisy puerto
rican chick.
He's a bro.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
He told all mal jibs, you understand, oh uh, scooties
pops, yeah, scooties pops is arat too, who mal jibs.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Yeah, what he told on some african niggas in queens
but they were saying that thatwas the dude, nitty, that did
that.
Oh, the Africans in Queens,yeah, because he was messing
with Jibbs at the time.
Him and Jibbs was down together.
Yeah, jibbs told Wow, that's inblack and white.
(48:33):
Yes, sir, okay, okay.
Well, I know Nitty had told onhim His son is a rat too.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah, I heard.
I heard he told on ThomasCintron.
That's in black and white too.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
Yeah, I don't know who Thomas Cintron is.
They probably a younger crowd.
Yeah, probably.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Oh, maybe he's in your age bracket.
Maybe he's in your age bracket,but you know from the interview
when I did with him hedefinitely sounded like a rat
hunter.
He said he was going to catchScootie and fuck him in the ass
Damn that's some gay shit,that's gay.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
That's like even when I hear brothers like, tell
other brothers, you know what Imean.
Like, and this is I got onetime me and your uncle was
talking and somebody we heardyou know cause you know sound
travels 1,100 feet per second.
Somebody told me, man, fuck you, you're gonna suck my dick.
And your uncle was like, wow,he should just punch him in the
(49:35):
face.
Like you know, he must be ahomosexual.
You're telling another man tosuck your dick.
Like that's some gay shit.
Yeah, you understand.
Like when dudes be saying youknow, suck my dick.
Like you're telling a dude thatlike you gay.
Like you know that's my opinion.
That don't mean it's valid, butthat's how I look at it.
Like I'd rather just punch youin your face.
(49:57):
Yeah, tell you like, suck mydick, I'll just punch you in the
face.
You know what I mean.
If it's that bad, get off thefucking, off the off the podcast
and go and go handle yourbusiness.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Yeah, niggas, just like running their mouth, man.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Yeah, then you had like other brothers too, like um
, um, his brother, uh, deshaunlewis.
He laid the booby in him and Ithink that's his niece or
somebody that just got arrestedfor stabbing up some old lady or
something.
He's a rat who he told that um,um, deshaun lewis, oh yeah,
(50:35):
he's a brat.
He told on mike Deshaun Lewisoh yeah, he's a brat.
He told on Mike Boone back inthe days Boone Boone, yeah,
that's Blocker.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
And his uncle.
Yeah, I was about to say thatyou got to be related to Keynote
and them.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah, you know.
That's why when I heard likeI've been listening to your
podcast and everything and Iheard that I was like they
should know better because whathappened to their uncle?
You know what I mean.
But everybody like you know weneed to sit here and call, but
we all got rats and somebodythat's ratting our family.
We may not be one, but we gotsomebody.
(51:13):
That family has a rat.
You know what I mean.
So because what you would callit, what's his name?
I don't his real name, becausehe named that for his father,
his mother, scootie's mother.
That's my cousin, donna.
Yeah, yeah, that's my cousin.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Scootie's name is Darren Lloyd.
Yeah, the Lloyds have a lot ofrats in their family those are
my cousins through marriage yeah, that's very unfortunate for
you.
Yeah, is it right?
Speaker 2 (51:56):
so it's like you know , but there's a bunch more.
There's a bunch more like therewas just one brother he told
somebody, uh, matter of fact, hetold me he said, yo, you was
talking shit about me.
I said how was I talking shitabout you?
You're going around saying Itold on you like, yeah, you did.
(52:19):
Yeah, but you know, you goingaround, you know pretty much
cause I'm going around, likesomebody asked me, because he's
not running around like a toughguy front end.
He ain't doing that.
You know he ain't no punk, buthe's not running around doing it
.
He's staying in his lane as arat, right, pretty much.
And he told on me, you knowwhat I mean.
(52:40):
So and he live out there andshit, he lived.
They say he live in a harvardnow.
So is that he's not runningaround doing that?
Somebody asked me.
I heard um, you know elijah hadtold on you.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yeah, he did I wish you nothing wrong with that.
He wants you to not tell people, not speak on it, pretty much
ignore the fact that he's a ratyeah, you told on me.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
You know what I mean.
I went upstate with a five toten at that time and wound up
doing close to 17 years becauseyou know I was young man,
vibrant, I'm running around thepenitentiary, you know what I
mean Putting in work and Icaught a new bid.
I caught two new bids on thatcase and I wound up doing like
(53:27):
close to 17 years on the fly ofthe tent, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah.
Then you had the kid he used tobe in Stapleton.
I don't know where he be at now.
This kid named Wiz GaryHernandez Shorty Wiz Nah, he's a
dude.
He's not no female.
Somebody was saying they got afemale out there named.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Wiz.
Yeah, but there's a dude outthere named Shorty Wiz too.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Shorty, I don't know.
I know Wiz.
His name is Gary Hernandez.
Okay, he trolled on me on thelast bit.
I just did.
You know for a robbery.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yeah man, Staten Island's full of rapists.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
And I'm on life parole because of that.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
He trolled on me and it's crazybecause back in the days in the
80s oh hell, rails, uncle, youknow, he told the police, told
me, when I robbed the ups truck,oh man.
(54:31):
So you know, when people starttalking that you know we stole
those stones at my house to makesure yours ain't.
You know yours ain't glass.
Yeah, facts, you understand,make sure yours ain't glass.
But he's another one, like he'scool, I see him he be like yo,
what's up, what's happening, howyou doing, but anything I can't
(54:51):
tell the district attorney, Idon't tell him.
Yeah, I agree, man, anythingyou can't tell a district
attorney, don't say it.
If you know the person is a rat.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
Yeah, I mean anything .
You can't tell a districtattorney.
You shouldn't be telling noneof these niggas and we could end
up with that man plus themurder game like I hear you
talking about.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
Yeah, I made this down.
Murder game ain't to be talkedabout.
Ain't no statute of limitationson that?
Yeah, you know.
So this damn thing, that thing,murder game ain't to be talked
about.
Ain't no statute of limitationon that?
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
So Then you got him on the podcast coming up here
solving crimes, talking about,you know, such and such, pushed
this nigga out the window andkilled him.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
Yeah, I heard like that's another thing, like what
got me, because one day I wasgoing through like because my.
That snitching right there, yeah, what got me?
Because one day, when I wasgoing through, like because my
um snitching right there, yeah,because I had pushed the thing
up right and uh, because, uh,somebody helped me set up my
Instagram, so when I had set itup I had seen, you know, your,
(55:50):
your logo I said let me see whatthis is about and that you know
and I'm starting to hear about,uh, you know you do a lot of
things, especially with peopleon Staten Island.
So so I really started and Istarted seeing certain shit and
I started hearing and I heardwhen the brother, when he said
that may he rest in peace thenpushed the dude out the window.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, facts Like you just told you just told he has
allegations of telling on hisname already.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
So if anything, that's a confirmation Right,
right, especially after you putsomebody else out there and you
tell it.
Yeah, that's a fact youunderstand, like, but his
brother, now Dan's brother, like, that's my age category, you
know, because people were sayingthat Dan was wearing a wire, he
was this, he was that, but Iknow his brother, his brother's
(56:44):
official.
May he rest in peace.
To shit, curtis, he wasefficient.
Yeah, you know, like I don't.
I never heard of him tellingyou know, so it's a whole bunch
of people.
Yeah, we could go on, we couldgo on and on and on and on
forever.
Like you know, especially likemy generation.
They like, like, like the Dells.
(57:05):
They a big family, but they hada couple of rats in their
family, like people it's namingcertain people because but they
got family members.
That was rats too, from wayback then, you know.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
Nobody can ever put that on me.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
And nobody can put that on me.
You know why?
Because all my crimes, prettymuch like I got caught by myself
.
Even if I was with somebody andthey got away, I got caught.
I held.
That, yeah, likewise you know,and I pride myself in that I can
.
That, yeah, likewise you know,and I pride myself on that.
I can look in the mirror everyday.
You know what I'm saying and belike at least I ain't telling.
(57:45):
No, motherfucker, you know,motherfucker, behind my back
will call me a sex offender, butin my face they're not going to
call it because I probably knowsomething about them or
somebody in their family.
Like your family use a rat, youknow, and I know it's hard to
get away from family membersthat are rats because they're
(58:07):
going to be in yourcircumference going family
events, stuff like that, andnobody wants to ostracize them.
Speaker 1 (58:14):
Yeah, that's what I'm here for ostracize and destroy,
eliminate all that and you knowwhat.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
That's what made me really have, made me be
attracted to your station,because you was putting, and
then it was like certain peoplethat was being said out there
that I didn't even know prettymuch, because they was like a
younger crowd or whatever.
And then, like I like it, likeyour uncle you know your uncle
and like myself, you know wespent a lot of our life in
(58:47):
prison because of rodents, right, and due to that, like people
that's been out there, like fromthe last 20 years ago.
I couldn't answer that becauseI was locked down.
Yeah, you understand, but youknow I can call out some rats
(59:08):
that like, oh, the kid, mike Z,I don't know if you heard of him
, mike Z, he's a rat, he told.
And this goes back to when myboy he had a four to eight for a
gun charge because he wasfucking with some chick and Mike
Z used to fuck with her.
He kept coming around trying todisrupt the relationship.
(59:32):
One thing led to another.
He went and got his slammer,like let's get, you know, let's
go, and Mike Z called the policeon him.
Shit like that.
Yeah, and these are the type ofdudes that was around like the
old time I heard him say on yourthing, like he used to be
(59:53):
around, uncle and all of them.
Speaker 1 (59:55):
Uncle's from Park Hill.
Yeah, so he was talking aboutMike Z, I believe, and you said
he's rodents.
Let's get back into that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Yeah, mike Z he was.
You know he was a known rat.
You know what I mean.
He told, he told so and that'sjust what it is.
Like you know, even in myfamily, you know I got some
rodents and like I statedanything I can't tell a distant
attorney.
I won't tell them Because youknow family, family will tell on
(01:00:25):
you too.
That's a fact.
People always think like, oh,that's family, this, and that
Family will get you too, youknow, just to save their own ass
.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
You know, just to save their own ass.
Yeah, you know, and I just likemost people that that know me
like, if you do like aninvestigation on, maybe like yo,
he wasn't really like a peopleperson.
He, he go do his thing and thatwas it.
Because I know how people are.
I've seen people that I knowand certain individuals they
(01:00:59):
used to talk about and they waslike yo.
He told on me and this is likemy era growing up, so I always
had that thing.
And then an old time told me onetime, you know, in Brooklyn.
He was like listen, if you feelyou can't trust him, don't do
(01:01:19):
nothing around him, don't donothing with him.
He said don't be with a personthat people are saying that he's
a snitch.
You know, back then they usedto call them stool pigeons.
Don't be with somebody that's astool pigeon and when something
happens now what you going todo, you shouldn't have been with
him.
And I hear a couple of people onyour cast.
(01:01:40):
You know they be yeah, this,that and the third, but you're
still hanging with him.
Yeah, you still be with him.
Dudes know to do whiz becausesomebody had asked me one time.
Oh, I didn't know, whiz was arap.
I said yeah, you told him.
I said yo, but you know heain't running around like you
know hummingstunting and none ofthat, but it is what it is.
But then they still hang aroundhim.
(01:02:01):
You still.
You know you disclosing prettymuch.
You know when you're hangingwith the dude, you know what he
is.
So if you get caught, that's onthem.
Just like when I heard, whenthey knew that a couple of
people that was rats I heard onone of your things.
(01:02:23):
It was like, well, you know,this dude was a rat and you're
still around him.
Okay, well, if you get caught,you do something, because the
way they're talking like they'restill in the streets.
Well, if you go to jail and hetold on you, whose fault is it?
Yeah, that's a fact.
Don't run around saying, well,he ain't gonna tell on me
because that's my man.
You know it's like an exceptionto a rule, but a road in there
(01:02:44):
ain't no exception, there isnone.
He gonna save his ass.
Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yeah, that's a fact At any cost, save his ass.
Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
And you know, just to put the icing on the cake, you
know, fuck, how people feel like.
I heard the uh the cast withyou and the brothers from
connecticut talking and they waslike telling you same thing.
I'm telling you.
Fuck them people, that meansyou're doing a good job, bro
yeah, that's a fact.
You're talking about my man,randy, and oh yeah, when they
(01:03:16):
was telling you you know, fuckthem people.
So what?
They saying this?
They saying that you got yourcash you doing what you doing.
The more people that's here,that means you're doing
something right.
Yeah, that's a fact.
I agree.
You feel me.
You're doing something right.
Fuck them motherfuckers.
Tell them to eat shit and barkat the moon.
Something right, fuck themmotherfuckers.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Tell them to eat shit and bark at the moon.
Yeah, that's a fact, and we canend it at that.
I appreciate your time.
I appreciate this interview,man.
Real love yeah, that's a fact.
Likewise, you know what I'msaying.
You know what I mean.
We're going to get your voiceout there to the people, get
your story out there, and youknow what I'm saying.
Hopefully, some, some justicecomes from it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Exactly, and I appreciate it and I appreciate
you Absolutely, good brother.
And if you want another one,you know to keep it going about
like you know the system, thejudicial system and the
penitentiary we do, we set it up.
Do another one, because I gotsome stories to tell you about
the penitentiary too.
Yeah, more than just that.
(01:04:18):
What's that mid-state and Marcyincident?
Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
There's more to it.
Yeah, definitely, we coulddefinitely circle back for a
part two.
You know what I'm saying.
I appreciate your time in thisinterview.
Good brother, okay, you stayblessed.
Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Yes, sir, you too, all right.
Good morning, Godspeed.
It's your boy, Elliot Carter,on the line with my OG, Ed.
We're reporting live from thegutter.
I got some serious stuff totalk about today, so let's get
into it.
Introduce yourself, Ed.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, my name you know everybody call me Ed.
My name's Edward Harrison.
You know I'm here with the goodbrother so I can make it happen
and let it be known.
You know that the jiu-jitsusystem out there in Richmond
County, you and let it be known.
You know that the jiu-jitsusystem out there in Richmond
County, you know they're justlike any other county.
You know they falsely convictpeople and they know it and they
(00:34):
don't feel, like you know, theyshould have to overturn a case
or any cases that they falselyaccuse somebody of.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I agree that they falsely accuse somebody of.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I agree, you know, staten Island specifically is
the most corrupt borough when itcomes to police in New York,
exactly, and a real, how wouldyou say it?
Like it's a real conservativeborough?
Yeah, definitely, because a lotof judges, lawyers, police
officers, they live out there sothey actually feel they can do
(01:07):
what they want to do with, no,you know, no consequences.
Yeah, no repercussions.
Exactly, just like you know,when they have their stat now in
advance, that covers for themAbsolutely.
Yeah, they'll put in what we'vedone, but they won't say you
know what the judicial systemdone, what the police department
(01:29):
has done, or any of the errorsmade by the system.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
You know they always target our young black men.
You know, that's a fact.
I agree with you.
I agree with you, that's a fact.
So let's get into what was yourwrongful conviction for?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
My wrongful conviction.
It started out as rape in asecond degree but as I was going
on and challenging it and goingthrough my hearings, they broke
it down to the less includedoffense of the indictment.
It was an indictment of twoaccounts and one was rape in a
second degree.
They tried to fancify it bysaying it was like oh, it's a
(02:11):
nonviolent, just take the copout.
I wasn't taking that because Ididn't do anything.
So they broke it down to sexualmisconduct, you know, under the
penal law of 130.20,subdivision 1.
So, and to this day, becausewhen people ask me, you know,
how did they pick you out out of?
(02:32):
You know, out of everybody.
And that's a question I stillcan't even answer.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Well, let's get into what the situation was so the
viewers could understand.
So they're saying they startedoff by saying it was second
degree rape.
Yes, all right.
So what was the actual incidentthat occurred where they said
you allegedly raped a?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
woman.
Well, they were saying thatsome female, she was a
schizophrenic drug addict, drugaddict, self-mutilator, and they
were stating that she said shewas raped.
(03:13):
And I don't know how, I don'tknow where.
You know there was a lot ofstuff with it.
But I know, like the lawyerthat I had at the time, somebody
said he passed away GregoryClark.
He said if it would have been ablack female, or even in a
different barrel, he said itwouldn't even have went past the
precinct.
(03:33):
So you know the rape conviction.
You know once it was like goingthrough the hearings.
You know I was taken into trial.
They broke it down as sexualmisconduct.
And why did they do that?
Because they didn't want to,because they know they couldn't
Like when you go to trial Idon't know if people's familiar
(03:54):
with it when you go to trialthey complain it.
They must come to trial.
Only reason that they don'tcome to trial, if there's, you
know they're deceased.
Deceased they're really,they're impaired or they are
minor.
And then they have to, prettymuch have to go through certain
channels if they're a minor.
But once they realized I wastaking it all away, they broke
(04:17):
it down as sexual misconduct andyou copped out to that, not
with with the track.
Oh, and you blew Because it'sstill on the indictment.
It's still part of theindictment, even though, like
some people think, because, likeon indictment, you have certain
accounts.
You have certain accounts onthe indictment, so your lowest
(04:38):
account might be a misdemeanor,but you're still under
indictment.
Yeah, I get it.
I get it.
You understand what I'm saying.
Like, once you're indictedthat's what it is so you might
have count one, count two, countthree, so on and so forth.
Mine was just a two-countindictment Rape in a second
degree and sexual misconduct.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Once they dismissed the rape, they must have thought
that you were going to just copout and not take it to trial.
Right, you were going to justcop out and not take it to trial
, right.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So I did my hearings, I went through that and Mr
Clark had told me he said listen, we got him.
I waited, waited, waited.
It came back.
I didn't happen.
(05:28):
But that's because I was likepretty much the fall guy for
this person that they allegedlysaid was raped who was this
person?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
what's?
What's this female's name?
Because if she's making falseallegations, I think the world
should know who she is and beaware of her yeah, uh, they said
her name is, uh, sarah warnerso you've never had any
encounters with sarah warner Idon't even know her, so how did
you get picked to?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
be the fall guy.
That's that's what I'm tryingto find out to this day.
You know how did she pick me?
I?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
remember when we first spoke about this.
I think you said if I'm notmistaken, you was actually
incarcerated during the timethat the incident occurred.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Exactly, I was on a parole violation when the
detectives came to see me andthat's how, like, as time went
on, I started finding out thatthis complainant, you know, was
schizophrenic, self-mutilatordrug addict.
Also, you know, it came outthat the complainant, sarah
(06:35):
Warner, you know she repentedher statement.
She said that because she wassaying that they wouldn't let
her go out and smoke, by thepaperwork and saying that they
didn't let her go out and smokea cigarette.
I guess she was in a programcalled Chat House and they
didn't let her go out and smoke.
(06:55):
I guess she just left and theysaid they found her wandering
and she was drunk or high orwhatever the case may be.
And then in the dd5 files theywere showing how she was cursing
them out.
I don't want to deal with youpeople, fuck out of here.
(07:17):
This, that and third, and thenthe last dd5, I guess they did
they put on the medication,whatever the case may be.
And then they did they put on amedication, whatever the case
may be, and then they did itagain.
I'm just going by what thelawyer was telling me at that
point.
So then it come to find out inthe paperwork that I have, and I
had sent it to you where shesaid, oh, I was never raped.
(07:39):
I lied and I devised a story ofbeing raped because she thought
she was going to lose her bedat the chat house she was at.
I guess it's like a drugprogram or people that deal with
like or have like schizophrenicwhatever.
And I did my research onschizophrenia.
Schizophrenia doesn't mean like.
A person is like fully crazywhat it is.
(08:02):
They compile stories.
Yeah, definitely so, definitely.
So you know, when they try tosay that, oh, she was
schizophrenic, this and thatlike, or even if she was under
the fluence of drug, that's whenI had started doing a lot of
research on it.
When a person is under thefluence of drugs or anything of
that nature, and if you have sexwith them, technically there's
(08:25):
no, it's not consensual.
Yeah, so I'm telling you know, Istarted like explaining to
people that you know, if yousuppose you don't even know this
person, and they come up with astory like that, like, how do
you counter that?
Yeah, then on top of that, theytry to say that, oh, we got a
(08:51):
dna.
This was all like in thebeginning of the case, but as I
got an attorney, an attorneyfound out that the district
attorney's office not a lab, butthey they office held
somebody's DNA, or they held DNAthat they allegedly stated was
mine, but they held it for ayear.
How do you?
(09:12):
You know?
It was something similar tolike the Grant Williams case.
Yeah, when they, they or theywere saying they had a hat with
DNA, come to find out they hadno hat, or if they did have a
hat, the DNA was tainted.
Once you keep it in your, inyour office, it's tainted now.
So whose DNA is it?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
yeah, my whole thing is this if you could clearly
establish that you wasincarcerated during the time of
the incident, how come you can'tget it overturned, because
obviously you weren't even inthe vicinity of her when the
incident occurred?
And then, second, I want toknow was there a rape case?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Right, that's what I'm trying to.
They're saying that they sentit to the lab after a year, but
if I'm already locked up, I'mupstate.
It's a case called SINGA.
Right People versus SINGA.
They charged a guy.
In his case it was a murder.
He was already upstate as hewas getting ready to come home.
(10:18):
They come to pick him up andthey said it was a sealed
indictment that was similar tomine's.
Mine's, it was just a sexoffender case.
So, that being said, theyviolated.
It's considered.
Also, it was proof that whenthe detectives came to see me
(10:39):
when I was upstate, there was noaudio, no video.
There was nothing.
It was a statement that wassupposed to have been produced.
Well, it was produced, but thenit was Gregory Clark started
questioning the detectiveDetective Anthony DeMaria, that
(11:00):
he actually stated in thehearing because you know I have
my waiting hearing he wrote thestatement.
He wrote the statementAbsolutely and he actually
stated, like when some of thepaperwork I sent you it's in
there and Mr Clark wasquestioning him on it Like, what
do you mean?
You wrote the statement?
(11:20):
You mean to tell me you had theman in the room.
You had him in there for likean hour or two hours and you
only wrote a half a page.
Also, he stated that when theyasked him, like you know, make a
description of me, he said Iwas like 5'10", 220 pounds.
(11:41):
I'm 5'6".
You understand what I'm saying?
That, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And how much did you weigh at the time?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
At that time I was only like 205.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, so that was just completely off, right, and
he also.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Did he provide?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
a description.
That was the description.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
He didn't even go into all of that, like he said,
said you know I was 5, 10 210pounds.
You know I was light-skinned,I'm not light-skinned, yeah, you
understand.
He also admitted that he issuedmy Miranda warnings and see,
(12:25):
all this was done like post theCentral Park 5 case.
So now you were supposed tofollow a certain protocol.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Especially after that case.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
It wasn't even followed.
Also from the gate, like Istated.
You know, the complainantstated that she lied.
I have five different uh, dd-5files, right, I have.
It was five differentstatements that was made.
The last statement is when theyput on a medication, whatever
(13:00):
the case, and she admitted thatshe lied.
So my thing is how did you,like you know, stat now that she
lied?
So my thing is how did you,like you know, stat now?
And it's so corrupted with allof that, how did you even get an
indictment?
And then, when you look at,because they said she kicked me
out in the photo, right, but nowwhen you go through all the
paperwork prior to theindictment is saying unknown,
(13:24):
unknown, unknown, so you don'tknow who it is.
If the person is unknown, howdid she pick me out in the photo
, right?
I wasn't even on the scene, Iwas on a parole violation.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, and what were you on a parole violation for?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I was on a parole violation because at that time
you know they was violatingpeople using drugs and this and
that and I had caught amisdemeanor for a misdemeanor
assault on what's her name.
They used to live in West I'mnot West Brighton, stapleton,
(14:02):
her name is Janisa, I don't knowher last name, but prior to
that she had spit on me, spitsome food on me, so when I seen
her I slapped her for spittingon me and it was a misdemeanor.
It was a misdemeanor assault.
So they gave me nine months fora misdemeanor assault and at
(14:26):
that time, like I stated, theywas violating me for that.
So after I did my nine months Idid six months out of the nine
they sent me upstate For aviolation, right, for a parole
violation, and, being that I hada violent crime, I was category
one, so I had 18 months On topof the six you just did, exactly
(14:49):
.
So I was gone for like 24months and then when they
brought me back down for thecase to fight the case, I laid
up like 11 more months.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah, that's crazy.
So how long were youincarcerated for before they
actually brought you down andalleged that you raped this
woman?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
The 24th, I was locked up like 20, 23 and a half
months yeah, that's crazy.
And it was like the day I wassupposed to get paroled to come
home.
What they did?
They had packed me up likemaybe like three, four days
prior to that and I'm like, okay, I think I'm going down to
Lincoln or Edge one of themspots, because they was open at
(15:32):
that time they brought me toUlster County, put me in a box
you know they had me in a shoeinstead of general population,
put me there.
The date of my release was I, Ithink was a Monday or it was a
matter of fact it was a Tuesdaybecause that Monday was a
holiday.
They brought me back down and Iwas like what's this?
(15:56):
Oh, this is the breaking of theseal of an indictment, you know
.
And I was like about what?
And they was like well, you'vebeen accused of rape in the
second degree.
And I was like what?
So the first lawyer that theygave me?
She kept saying I don't evenremember her name.
(16:19):
She kept saying, oh, just takethe cop out, it's nothing.
It's like it's my first day incourt.
I don't even know what's goingon.
They offer you one and a halfto three, just take it.
And I was like, no, I'm nottaking nothing.
Next time I went to court I hadGregory Clark.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, that's the right thing.
When you have a lawyer likethat that you don't even know
and the first thing they'retelling you to do is take the
cop out or take whatever the DAis offering you.
My advice to everybodylistening fire them.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Exactly Because we should be treated as if we was
like police officer or anybodyelse.
Let me go to my preliminaryhearings.
You had due diligence.
See, it's a thing, it's calleddue diligence.
Yeah, well, I've been arrested.
I got a nice number.
So for you to put a sealedindictment, pretty much, you
(17:14):
saying you don't know where I'mat, you don't know my
whereabouts.
But then you sent twodetectives to come talk to me
all the way upstate.
So you know my whereabouts andas I I'm in the system, I have a
nice number.
I'm not saying I have a halofull of my head.
You know what I mean Because,like I tell people at that time,
(17:34):
I'm a robber.
You know what I'm saying.
I ain't no rapist, I ain't noburglar, I'm none of that.
I'm a robber.
Well, I was you know, since I'vebeen home yeah, back in the day
, that's what I did, so to beaccused of something like this
(17:55):
and Richmond County, like thelawyer I have, she's a she's a
good lawyer, but it's like shedoesn't want to rock the boat
because she knows how StatenIsland is.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Oh, the one that told you you should just take the
cop out.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
No, my lawyer I have now.
Oh, okay, yeah, I have a lawyernow and she submitted under a
conviction investigative unit.
They don't call it theconviction review unit or Staten
Island, it's called theconviction investigative unit.
They don't call it theconviction review unit or stat
now, it's called the convictioninvestigative unit and they have
the case.
They've been holding that casefor two years.
(18:35):
All the evidence that's stackedagainst them.
They've been holding it for twoyears and for the last 10
months they've been telling mylawyer because when I call, I
try to call her like every othermonth or once a month to see
what's going on and she's saying, well, the district, the ada on
it, is saying that they'restill going through the uh, the
(18:58):
grand jury minutes.
So I'm I'm staying like how doyou go through something for 10
months?
Yeah, like that's a stalltactic.
It is.
I want people to know that youknow Richmond County like they.
Only because I looked it up, Idid my research only one person,
one person that the convictioninvestigative unit overturned a
(19:23):
case and that was Grant Williams.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And how many years has that department been active?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Since 2019.
They stayed on paper when Ilooked it up through Google.
Theirs started in 2019.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And how many cases did they process for only one
case?
No, you said one case wasoverturned, but how many cases
actually went through thatdepartment that they processed
that weren't overturned?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Per.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Google that.
I looked it up.
It stated that it was only thatone case, grant Williams.
No, yeah, I get what you'resaying.
You're saying that GrantWilliams was the only case
overturn overturned.
I'm asking how many casesweren't, how many cases failed
to get overturned?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
they're saying that.
They're saying that that wasthe only case.
Yeah, it's not always the onlycase that they've reviewed oh,
okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
so they haven't, they're just inactive, they're
not doing shit.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right, and then they say that or one, like when I was
going through it.
They're saying that at one timethe new district attorney,
which is Michael McElhorn, hewas stating something about, oh,
they didn't have the funds.
And then, as time went on, theyfound out.
Well, I found out throughreading and through my little
research they had received$425,000 for that.
(20:49):
You know, because every you'renot going to sit there and say
that all these other boroughs,even certain counties, when they
get their money for thedistrict attorney's office that
you didn't fund, you know StatenIsland, you didn't give them
enough money to start aconviction investigative unit.
(21:10):
You're not going to say that,like you know, you can tell the
people that and it sounds good,especially the people out there,
because, like, as I stated,there's a bunch of judges,
lawyers and police officers, sothey're going to be shaking
their head when he sayssomething.
I'm like, yeah, that's true,but it's not, it's not so with
that Grant Williams case.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
How long did it take for them to review the case and
overturn it?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
This case was.
I think it was like 22 months.
It's what like about 22, say,rounded off 23 months.
So what like by 22, theyrounded off 23 months.
They took, you know to evenanswer it and they answered his
in July of 2021.
(21:55):
So since then they haven't doneanother case, and I know mine's
they had mine since 23, 23, may8th, because I have the
paperwork where my lawyers havesent it in.
It was around May 8th of 2023and you're just sitting on a
(22:17):
case with all of this stackedagainst it and you you saying,
like you still reviewing thegrand jury minutes yeah, grant
Williams is un right.
Yeah, that's un.
They used to call him boo-booback in the days.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, I think my uncle helped him come home.
Yeah, he was in Green Haven.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Londonhad his hands in that.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, but I know he had went through the Innocent
Project also.
I guess he helped him.
You know, get through to getthrough the Innocent Project.
I don't know and I'm not goingto.
You know, spread nothing false.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Have you reached out to London and let him know the
situation that you're in?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, well, I had talked to him one time because
he had called my nephew, Ricker,and we was in a car together,
Definitely, and I had spoke tohim then and I think at that
time he was in Firepoint Becauseme and him was in Sing Sing
together.
When I had started that bit off, we was in Sing Sing and he's
(23:27):
the one that really opened myeyes to the law when I started
explaining certain things to himand he was like, listen,
because he worked in the lawlibrary when I was in Sing Sing.
Yeah, that's a fact.
So he was like, I'm going toget you in the law library.
I gave him my name, my number.
He got me pulled down in thelaw library.
I gave him my name, my number,he got me pulled down and that's
from that point on, you know, Iwould go down there every day.
(23:50):
And one thing I could say abouthim he down for his business
when it comes to that law and heain't going to sugarcoat it.
And he let me know.
He said listen, no tellingwhere.
If I'm going to stay here, youstay here, whatever the case.
So, no telling, if I'm going tostay here, you stay here,
whatever the case.
So take this book read it, readup on it.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
What book was that that he told you to read up on?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
It was the Lawyer's Cooperative.
That's the.
It's a lawyer.
He's a high-powered lawyer fromout of Rochester and he wrote
that book, the Lawyer'sCooperative.
Every I think it's like everyyear or every two years he comes
out with a more upgraded book.
Yeah, so I had got that bookand, if I'm not mistaken, it was
(24:35):
like an older book, theLawyer's Cooperative.
But it's all good and he hadgave me that because to this day
, I still got the book, theactual one that he gave you.
Yeah, it's to this day I stillgot the book, the actual one
that he gave you.
Yeah, it's called the lawyer'scooperative.
I brought it home with me andeverything, because it was like,
you know, with certain peoplegive you certain things.
It's like it has like a, avalue to it.
(24:58):
Yeah, definitely.
So I took that as likesentimental, valueimental value
to it, exactly, and that's how Itook that.
I was like, okay, this iscoming to me that brought me for
the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
You still have it today, so that speaks of its
significance.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Exactly.
And you know, my thing is likewhy?
You know, I hear people theyspeak about certain things, but
they don't talk about RichmondCounty, they'll talk about
Manhattan.
Manhattan last year was likethe beginning of this year.
I don't want to call it wrongbecause I know you know we're
(25:38):
about truth and facts, but Iknow this one case that was just
recently overturned inManhattan.
It was a Spanish brother andwhat I'm getting at is that
Manhattan said that theyreviewed over 500 cases.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Meanwhile in Staten Island.
We've reviewed one, reviewedone.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I think that number alone should cause some type of
internal investigation, because,like, what are y'all doing?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Right, you mean to tell me you only did two cases?
Right, you didn't even do two.
You got one in your office nowand you did one.
So you mean to tell me theydon't need a federal probe?
Yeah, I agree, they need afederal probe to go.
I agree, they need a federalprobe to go into their records
and find out, like, why are allthe boroughs and the counties
(26:33):
you're not even reviewing cases?
Yeah, I agree, because you'renot going to sit here and say
you've been there since 2019,which makes you seem like you're
(26:54):
the last of all the fiveboroughs to even have a
conviction investigation unit,because you have Brooklyn,
queens, manhattan, the Bronx,all these other boroughs.
They have uh, uh, there's somecall it a conviction review
units.
Staten Island, cause, there'suh conviction investigating unit
, just like when you have the uh, what's that Uh finishing
(27:14):
project?
Then you have, like the uh, thebranches.
That's off to it, because Iguess anybody can't go under the
uh that, that that said off toit, because I guess anybody
can't go under the uh, thatthat's saying yeah, innocent
project.
So you have, like uh, aninnocent initiative.
Uh, yeah, just a bunch ofdifferent right, it's like it's
(27:35):
like a tree and you havebranches, that that that go out.
It's called like bifurcating.
So when you, when you havethese other things of these
lawyers, they don't have thejuice Like the Innocent Project
where they can get your stuffout to the media quick and
that's why they answer so manythings so fast.
Yeah, because they have theresources.
(27:56):
Yeah, and again, like it was anincident where when I went to a
lawyer's office since I've beenhome and pretty much they was
like once they found out it wasRichmond County, they backed up
Then a few times, lawyers, youtalk to them and they'll be like
(28:17):
, okay, you know where is thisat.
I said, well, it happened inRichmond County.
Oh well, you know, we only docivil.
It's like everybody's kind oflike frightened yeah, they start
getting cold?
Yeah, because it's soconservative, and a lot of
lawyers you know some of themmight live out there and they
don't want to rock the boat andkeep it real, which is like you
(28:40):
know how they say it justicedelayed, justice denied yeah,
and that's what it's like.
I even went and spoke to YusufSalam's mother about trying to
help me.
You know they don't do legalstuff, but they're supposed to
be like.
You know, somebody said theycan get your stuff out there.
(29:01):
They have an influence on themedia Right, and I'm still on
the media Right and I'm stillwaiting for her phone call.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, well, we're going to get your stuff out
there now.
Do you think?
Can your evidence vindicate you, and are they facts or truth?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, everything I have is facts.
The only way they wouldn't ifthey rubber-stamped it, but if
they follow the letter of thelaw and they see once the person
recanted and with all theevidence stacked against them.
As far as the detectives wrotethe statement, they issued my
Miranda warnings.
The complainant is aschizophrenic, self-mutilator
(29:43):
drug addict.
All that alone should have putthem in a thing.
Be like you know what.
It wasn't even supposed to gopast the prison, pretty much.
Yeah, that's, that's crazy,yeah.
And then I you know, as Istated, you know how do you get
dna.
You're saying you have dna butyou hold it in your office for a
(30:05):
whole year prior to you evensending it, I guess, to a lab or
wherever they sent it.
And then they said it's mine.
Anybody could that could beanybody.
You just stated it was mine.
And this was during a time when,like it was, you know us
(30:25):
prisoners at that time, they wasenforcing prisoners to give up
their DNA, like blood orwhatever the case may be, and
they was pretty much saying likewell, docs.
I don't know if the governmentwas saying it, but I know docs,
when I was upstate, was sayinglike, well, and if you don't
give it to us.
They're going to forcefullytake it, which means they're
(30:46):
going to assault you, cuff youand take your blood.
Yeah, you know your uncle, Iknow he tell you what it is
about, how docs has been goingon, like in Marcy, mid-state and
a few of these other prisons,attica, where they was really
(31:06):
like killing people.
Yeah, you know.
So you know.
With that being said, who's tosay that they didn't take you
know the DNA and say, oh, thisis his or this is his, because
(31:27):
it's happened.
Like I stated with the grantwilliams case, you said you had
a baseball cap with dna in it.
Now you can't find the dna orthe cap yeah, it's out of pocket
.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
So let me ask you this how has this false
conviction of sexual misconductaffected you in your life?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
It's affected me because, like certain jobs I
might go to and even if I havethe qualifications, once they do
a background check, that mixesit.
That automatically mixes it.
You know, my family andeverybody, they all know I'm
innocent, so I don't have aproblem with that.
(32:08):
But you know, before I got allthe paperwork, some people they
look at that and oh man, did hedo it?
Is he telling the truth?
He didn't do it.
You understand what I'm saying,so that skepticism, skepticism
and people's heads, yeah,skepticism, and people's heads
(32:29):
Like, like what's going on?
Well, how did you get accused?
You know what I mean and youknow most people.
They get brainwashed sometimesby the system.
They feel like, well, if you,if you were accused of it, you
did it.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah.
So do you think this convictiontook a shot at your reputation?
Yes, it did.
Yes, it did.
Do you feel like niggas in thestreets started dealing with you
differently after that?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
To be honest, like, especially like on Staten Island
, people will say things.
But when you present they won'tsay it.
But you can feel it Like BeanieSeaton said one time you know
the handshake ain't matching thesmile.
Yeah, you feel me, thathandshake ain't matching the
(33:19):
smile, ain't matching the smile.
But I'm getting it out to thepeople now, like for all those
who were saying it behind myback or whatever.
You know, with the paperwork, Ihave it all.
Ask me, I'll show it to you.
You understand what I'm saying.
I got everything to show that.
The lies and the deception ofRichmond County, yeah, so it did
(33:46):
.
It did Like me personally, likeI still move on with my life in
whatever the case may be.
But when that's like over yourhead, you know it's hard to get
like certain type of employmentor jobs it's hard to.
Some people might be like well,you know, okay, you got paid
(34:10):
with, you didn't do it, but yougo to the crib or whatever the
case may be, and it's like theydon't want you around their kids
or something.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And it wasn't even kids.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
It's a full, it's an adult.
It was an adult, yeah, and Igot daughters of my own, so
that's one thing I always hadpride of myself in.
Prior to the case, Like I neverhad that on my record, yeah was
(34:47):
telling him how do you?
You know you're trying to getthis man home with the
registration and it's a sexualmisconduct.
He doesn't even have a history,no background, no nothing.
All is just robberies.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
So do you have to register.
Are you sex offender because ofthis?
Yeah, so do you have toregister?
Are you sex offender because ofthis?
Yeah, so what would getting?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
this conviction overturned mean to you it would
be like like a form of parole.
You understand what I'm sayingnow.
It's like you made the paroleboard, yeah, you know.
And it's like I hear people sayafter the conviction it gets
overturned, oh, I'm not angry,you know, as time went on I let
(35:32):
the anger go and moved on withmy life and just you know I
fought this to get here.
Anybody with that over theirhead, you know, has some form of
anger, like let's keep it real.
The lawyer probably tell them.
(35:53):
Don't say you're angry orwhatever, because it looks like
you know you want to bevindictive or whatever.
How are you going to bevindictive or whatever?
How are you going to bevindictive to the judicial
system?
You can't win that fight, yeah,but you can be angry.
You understand what I'm sayingnow?
Not at all.
What do I look like?
Trying to go after them?
I'm fighting two brothers and acousin.
(36:14):
You can't win pretty much, yeah, but you still feel it Like you
know whether it's a murder, arobbery, a burglary, and you get
it overturned, you still.
You spent time in prison forthat.
You was accused of that.
You was looked at now likepeople you know may not even
(36:37):
trust you no more.
So yeah, I'm angry.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
You have every right to be angry.
You know what I'm saying.
If you're falsely convicted ofsomething that you didn't do and
it's altered your life.
You haven't been able to find,you know work that you're
qualified for.
You got people side-eyeing youand looking at you suspicious.
You have to register as a sexoffender and you're not a sex
offender.
(37:05):
So my heart goes out to you.
I feel for you.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yesterday.
Matter of fact, yesterday I wasat parole.
Now, like they take like sexoffenders, they take their
picture.
Sex offenders, they take theirpicture.
I think it's like every 90 daysyou have to take a photo.
Yesterday I had to take a photo.
(37:28):
Was it a photo?
No, I did the polygraph.
That's something that you dofor a sex offender.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Like why would you polygraph me, and what are some
of the questions that they'reasking you when they polygraph?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
you.
Well, I had told them that youcan't ask me any legal, like the
first time they did it, theywas asking me, well, about the
case and I kept denying it.
So when this polygraph cameback, it came back like like I
lied or something because I keptdenying it.
And this is, you know, onceit's focused into, okay, this is
(38:07):
what you was locked up for, andI wasn't even that, for that
parole I'm on now hasn't evennothing to even do with the case
.
It's just the way that thefacility printed out my release
papers.
So now they got me going tothat.
So I did that yesterday and, uh, that they asked.
(38:29):
Well, they couldn't ask menothing yesterday because, like
I told them yesterday, I said,listen, my case is in litigation
now and I can't answer it.
My words to don't answer thesequestions, yeah, you know, but
as far as the podcast oranything I speak on, I'm going
to let it be known I'm andlisten later.
(38:50):
For all that, don't, don'tanswer this question, don't say
this.
This has to be stated.
It has to be stated in therecord, because if I'm falsely
accused, I need somebody to hearit.
I need somebody to even go downto my lawyer's office.
Listen, if you don't have theresources to get it out there,
you know we're going to help younow because now it's out there.
(39:13):
You know people always like tocome on the aftermath.
You understand I'm saying likeonce it's out there or you found
somebody to get it out.
It's like once you get alwayslike to come on the aftermath.
You understand what I'm saying.
Once it's out there or youfound somebody to get it out,
it's like once you get a lawsuit, you could be looking for a
bunch of lawyers to help you out.
They won't help you until thesuit starts being activated.
Now they want to come out toWoodworth.
(39:34):
Listen, we will help yourepresent, we'll participate
with your lawyer and this andthat because now everybody want
a piece of the pie.
Yeah, exactly, you know I havea good lawyer.
She's like, when it comes tolike stagnant, you know like
she's pretty much likepassive-aggressive.
(39:54):
Yeah, you know, but she gotover 45 years of being a lawyer.
I looked up in the lawyer'sdiary.
It's got like 45 years in thelawyer and she's she's excellent
, but she, she knows how StatenIsland is and she doesn't want
to.
You know run after me Right andthey rubber stamp my, my case,
(40:16):
Cause it's pretty much Right andthey rubber stamp my case.
Yeah, Pretty much.
That's how Staten Island is, Ifyou know.
If you get at them, they'regoing to just rubber stamp it.
I know that for a fact becausewhen I was upstate and when you
say rubber stamp.
What do you mean by that?
They're just denied, just likedang stamp.
Ok, it's denied, yeah, andunder the conviction
(40:41):
investigation unit, lawyers, alot of lawyers well, the eight
additional district attorney'sofficers know that.
It's like, uh, pretty much howyou want to put it.
It's like the grand jury.
That's their fault so, andthere's no appeal process for it
.
So you would have to try tocome at them another way.
If they deny it, come with a440 or find a loophole.
(41:02):
That's either a statutory orconstitutional violation to come
after them, and staten allenknows that.
So this is why they they'remilking my case.
They're not doing any othercases.
You know what I mean.
Hopefully brothers from thishere will start like putting in
(41:22):
their paperwork, getting lawyersand putting in their paperwork
to show that.
You know like, let's keep itfair, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I agree.
I hope everything works out foryou and I hope you know you
coming on this podcast and usgetting you out there it
benefits you in some way, right?
Speaker 2 (41:43):
hopefully, like with the paperwork that was sent to
you, it gets out there and whenpeople read it now they can.
You know you still gonna getthe sideways looks, because you
know the case hasn't beenactually overturned.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yeah, just the nature of the case hasn't been
actually overturned.
Yeah, just the nature of thecase is uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Right.
But now that the paperwork isout there, now you know, now
people can be like oh snap, hewas innocent.
Yeah, now they could witnessyour innocence, Right and the
same way you know, like when Iwas locked up, like you know,
sometimes like brothers talkingand they say, like why wait till
it's done?
Whether it's family members oryour homie, whatever the case
(42:27):
may be, whatever you know,identify with people outside of
your family members With thisbeing said now, that's out there
, we need to start.
You know we protest foreverything, but the right thing
we need to protest.
You know in'll protest foreverything but the right thing
we need to protest, you know, infront of this district
attorney's office on RichmondCounty and sound like you know
enough is enough with thesewrongful convictions, because
(42:48):
I'm quite sure you knowespecially us as black and brown
people.
We know we have family membersthat have been falsely accused.
We know we have family membersthat have been falsely accused.
You know why not go in front ofthe district attorney office
out there on Staten Island andmarch in front of them.
(43:08):
You know, request for a federalprobe.
We need a federal probe outhere because there's a bunch of
people that I know that waslocked up with me.
Whether they take a plea or theywent to trial, staten Island
won't even file your notice ofappeal and that's something that
is your lawyer.
That's their last obligation toyou.
(43:29):
I looked that up and everything.
If your lawyer don't file yournotice of appeal, they drop the
ball.
Yeah, you know because drop theball, yeah, you know, because
you can't.
And they always say, well, Itook a plea, this, and that my
lawyer said I can't appeal it,you can't waive a constitutional
(43:50):
right.
So for them to not file yournotice of appeal, that's a
constitutional right.
That's ineffective in the senseof trial counsel.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, and I'm sure you're probably opening a lot of
eyes to things that peopledon't know.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Exactly because one of the last cases that Sonia
Sotomayor you know who that is?
No, she's a United StatesSupreme Court Justice.
She's from out the Bronx.
That's the Spanish lady.
I don't know.
I know she's of Latin descent.
I don't know exactly if she'sDominican, puerto Rican or
whatever the case may be, but Iknow she's of Latin descent and
(44:34):
she's for the people.
You know what I mean.
And she sits up there now inthe United States Supreme Court,
which is the highest court ofthe land.
But she came from the SecondCircuit, which covers things in
the Eastern District, everythingthat's considered under the
Eastern District.
That's where the Second Circuitcovers district.
(44:56):
That's where the Second Circuitcovers.
Her last case prior, or one ofthe last cases, it was Compasano
v US.
She made the actual decision onthat case and she stated in
there that you know it doesn'tmatter, you went to trial, you
take a plea or whatever the casemay be misdemeanor, felony.
(45:18):
The last obligation of a lawyeris to file your notice of
appeal Period.
You know what I'm saying.
If they feel you have nomeritorious issues, they file
your appeal pursuant with anAndes brief, which is California
versus Andes.
That pretty much states thatyou have no issues, no
(45:40):
meritorial issue, but we'regoing to file your appeal so the
appellate court can look to seeif you have any constitutional
issues or statutory issues thatneed to be addressed.
Yeah, you know, as far as likethat I have.
You know brothers get on thething.
(46:02):
They say they know the law.
You know we all know the law,but do we understand the law?
We can read something and belike, okay, I read that, I know
that, but do you understand it?
That's a different issue now.
Yeah, so you know the evidencethat I have.
(46:22):
You know.
Hopefully, you know, they lookat it, review it and stop
playing with it and give me myjust due, give me my vindication
.
Yeah, I agree, you know,instead of working against the
(46:43):
people you're like you wantthese votes.
You know, because you get votedin to be the district attorney,
you want these votes.
You know, do the right thing.
And Grant Williams' caseMichael McEnroe he stated that
you know if cases is beingbrought forth for these wrongful
convictions, he's going to.
(47:03):
You know they're going to moveexpeditiously to right the wrong
.
You know, as it stands rightnow, he's being mendacious.
He's not right in the wrong.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah, well, hopefully we could get the ball rolling
to help you with that.
Before we close out thisinterview, I wanted to ask you
one last question.
Sure, I wanted to ask you to,uh, give us some rodents from
your era.
You know, I'm saying, yeah,let's, let's speak on that real
quick.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah, well, I know like this dude, I don't know.
I don't know his government,but they used to call they.
They called him nitty at thetime.
Okay, he's, he's like up theremy age, if not older.
You know, he got matter of fact.
He, he got a, a baby from hisuh sister named daisy puerto
rican chick.
He's a bro.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
He told all mal jibs, you understand, oh uh, scooties
pops, yeah, scooties pops is arat too, who mal jibs.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Yeah, what he told on some african niggas in queens
but they were saying that thatwas the dude, nitty, that did
that.
Oh, the Africans in Queens,yeah, because he was messing
with Jibbs at the time.
Him and Jibbs was down together.
Yeah, jibbs told Wow, that's inblack and white.
(48:33):
Yes, sir, okay, okay.
Well, I know Nitty had told onhim His son is a rat too.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah, I heard.
I heard he told on ThomasCintron.
That's in black and white too.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
Yeah, I don't know who Thomas Cintron is.
They probably a younger crowd.
Yeah, probably.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Oh, maybe he's in your age bracket.
Maybe he's in your age bracket,but you know from the interview
when I did with him hedefinitely sounded like a rat
hunter.
He said he was going to catchScootie and fuck him in the ass
Damn that's some gay shit,that's gay.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
That's like even when I hear brothers like, tell
other brothers, you know what Imean.
Like, and this is I got onetime me and your uncle was
talking and somebody we heardyou know cause you know sound
travels 1,100 feet per second.
Somebody told me, man, fuck you, you're gonna suck my dick.
And your uncle was like, wow,he should just punch him in the
(49:35):
face.
Like you know, he must be ahomosexual.
You're telling another man tosuck your dick.
Like that's some gay shit.
Yeah, you understand.
Like when dudes be saying youknow, suck my dick.
Like you're telling a dude thatlike you gay.
Like you know that's my opinion.
That don't mean it's valid, butthat's how I look at it.
Like I'd rather just punch youin your face.
(49:57):
Yeah, tell you like, suck mydick, I'll just punch you in the
face.
You know what I mean.
If it's that bad, get off thefucking, off the off the podcast
and go and go handle yourbusiness.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Yeah, niggas, just like running their mouth, man.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Yeah, then you had like other brothers too, like um
, um, his brother, uh, deshaunlewis.
He laid the booby in him and Ithink that's his niece or
somebody that just got arrestedfor stabbing up some old lady or
something.
He's a rat who he told that um,um, deshaun lewis, oh yeah,
(50:35):
he's a brat.
He told on mike Deshaun Lewisoh yeah, he's a brat.
He told on Mike Boone back inthe days Boone Boone, yeah,
that's Blocker.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
And his uncle.
Yeah, I was about to say thatyou got to be related to Keynote
and them.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah, you know.
That's why when I heard likeI've been listening to your
podcast and everything and Iheard that I was like they
should know better because whathappened to their uncle?
You know what I mean.
But everybody like you know weneed to sit here and call, but
we all got rats and somebodythat's ratting our family.
We may not be one, but we gotsomebody.
(51:13):
That family has a rat.
You know what I mean.
So because what you would callit, what's his name?
I don't his real name, becausehe named that for his father,
his mother, scootie's mother.
That's my cousin, donna.
Yeah, yeah, that's my cousin.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Scootie's name is Darren Lloyd.
Yeah, the Lloyds have a lot ofrats in their family those are
my cousins through marriage yeah, that's very unfortunate for
you.
Yeah, is it right?
Speaker 2 (51:56):
so it's like you know , but there's a bunch more.
There's a bunch more like therewas just one brother he told
somebody, uh, matter of fact, hetold me he said, yo, you was
talking shit about me.
I said how was I talking shitabout you?
You're going around saying Itold on you like, yeah, you did.
(52:19):
Yeah, but you know, you goingaround, you know pretty much
cause I'm going around, likesomebody asked me, because he's
not running around like a toughguy front end.
He ain't doing that.
You know he ain't no punk, buthe's not running around doing it
.
He's staying in his lane as arat, right, pretty much.
And he told on me, you knowwhat I mean.
(52:40):
So and he live out there andshit, he lived.
They say he live in a harvardnow.
So is that he's not runningaround doing that?
Somebody asked me.
I heard um, you know elijah hadtold on you.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yeah, he did I wish you nothing wrong with that.
He wants you to not tell people, not speak on it, pretty much
ignore the fact that he's a ratyeah, you told on me.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
You know what I mean.
I went upstate with a five toten at that time and wound up
doing close to 17 years becauseyou know I was young man,
vibrant, I'm running around thepenitentiary, you know what I
mean Putting in work and Icaught a new bid.
I caught two new bids on thatcase and I wound up doing like
(53:27):
close to 17 years on the fly ofthe tent, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah.
Then you had the kid he used tobe in Stapleton.
I don't know where he be at now.
This kid named Wiz GaryHernandez Shorty Wiz Nah, he's a
dude.
He's not no female.
Somebody was saying they got afemale out there named.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Wiz.
Yeah, but there's a dude outthere named Shorty Wiz too.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Shorty, I don't know.
I know Wiz.
His name is Gary Hernandez.
Okay, he trolled on me on thelast bit.
I just did.
You know for a robbery.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yeah man, Staten Island's full of rapists.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
And I'm on life parole because of that.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
He trolled on me and it's crazybecause back in the days in the
80s oh hell, rails, uncle, youknow, he told the police, told
me, when I robbed the ups truck,oh man.
(54:31):
So you know, when people starttalking that you know we stole
those stones at my house to makesure yours ain't.
You know yours ain't glass.
Yeah, facts, you understand,make sure yours ain't glass.
But he's another one, like he'scool, I see him he be like yo,
what's up, what's happening, howyou doing, but anything I can't
(54:51):
tell the district attorney, Idon't tell him.
Yeah, I agree, man, anythingyou can't tell a district
attorney, don't say it.
If you know the person is a rat.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
Yeah, I mean anything .
You can't tell a districtattorney.
You shouldn't be telling noneof these niggas and we could end
up with that man plus themurder game like I hear you
talking about.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
Yeah, I made this down.
Murder game ain't to be talkedabout.
Ain't no statute of limitationson that?
Yeah, you know.
So this damn thing, that thing,murder game ain't to be talked
about.
Ain't no statute of limitationon that?
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
So Then you got him on the podcast coming up here
solving crimes, talking about,you know, such and such, pushed
this nigga out the window andkilled him.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
Yeah, I heard like that's another thing, like what
got me, because one day I wasgoing through like because my.
That snitching right there, yeah, what got me?
Because one day, when I wasgoing through, like because my
um snitching right there, yeah,because I had pushed the thing
up right and uh, because, uh,somebody helped me set up my
Instagram, so when I had set itup I had seen, you know, your,
(55:50):
your logo I said let me see whatthis is about and that you know
and I'm starting to hear about,uh, you know you do a lot of
things, especially with peopleon Staten Island.
So so I really started and Istarted seeing certain shit and
I started hearing and I heardwhen the brother, when he said
that may he rest in peace thenpushed the dude out the window.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, facts Like you just told you just told he has
allegations of telling on hisname already.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
So if anything, that's a confirmation Right,
right, especially after you putsomebody else out there and you
tell it.
Yeah, that's a fact youunderstand, like, but his
brother, now Dan's brother, like, that's my age category, you
know, because people were sayingthat Dan was wearing a wire, he
was this, he was that, but Iknow his brother, his brother's
(56:44):
official.
May he rest in peace.
To shit, curtis, he wasefficient.
Yeah, you know, like I don't.
I never heard of him tellingyou know, so it's a whole bunch
of people.
Yeah, we could go on, we couldgo on and on and on and on
forever.
Like you know, especially likemy generation.
They like, like, like the Dells.
(57:05):
They a big family, but they hada couple of rats in their
family, like people it's namingcertain people because but they
got family members.
That was rats too, from wayback then, you know.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
Nobody can ever put that on me.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
And nobody can put that on me.
You know why?
Because all my crimes, prettymuch like I got caught by myself
.
Even if I was with somebody andthey got away, I got caught.
I held.
That, yeah, likewise you know,and I pride myself in that I can
.
That, yeah, likewise you know,and I pride myself on that.
I can look in the mirror everyday.
You know what I'm saying and belike at least I ain't telling.
(57:45):
No, motherfucker, you know,motherfucker, behind my back
will call me a sex offender, butin my face they're not going to
call it because I probably knowsomething about them or
somebody in their family.
Like your family use a rat, youknow, and I know it's hard to
get away from family membersthat are rats because they're
(58:07):
going to be in yourcircumference going family
events, stuff like that, andnobody wants to ostracize them.
Speaker 1 (58:14):
Yeah, that's what I'm here for ostracize and destroy,
eliminate all that and you knowwhat.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
That's what made me really have, made me be
attracted to your station,because you was putting, and
then it was like certain peoplethat was being said out there
that I didn't even know prettymuch, because they was like a
younger crowd or whatever.
And then, like I like it, likeyour uncle you know your uncle
and like myself, you know wespent a lot of our life in
(58:47):
prison because of rodents, right, and due to that, like people
that's been out there, like fromthe last 20 years ago.
I couldn't answer that becauseI was locked down.
Yeah, you understand, but youknow I can call out some rats
(59:08):
that like, oh, the kid, mike Z,I don't know if you heard of him
, mike Z, he's a rat, he told.
And this goes back to when myboy he had a four to eight for a
gun charge because he wasfucking with some chick and Mike
Z used to fuck with her.
He kept coming around trying todisrupt the relationship.
(59:32):
One thing led to another.
He went and got his slammer,like let's get, you know, let's
go, and Mike Z called the policeon him.
Shit like that.
Yeah, and these are the type ofdudes that was around like the
old time I heard him say on yourthing, like he used to be
(59:53):
around, uncle and all of them.
Speaker 1 (59:55):
Uncle's from Park Hill.
Yeah, so he was talking aboutMike Z, I believe, and you said
he's rodents.
Let's get back into that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Yeah, mike Z he was.
You know he was a known rat.
You know what I mean.
He told, he told so and that'sjust what it is.
Like you know, even in myfamily, you know I got some
rodents and like I statedanything I can't tell a distant
attorney.
I won't tell them Because youknow family, family will tell on
(01:00:25):
you too.
That's a fact.
People always think like, oh,that's family, this, and that
Family will get you too, youknow, just to save their own ass
.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
You know, just to save their own ass.
Yeah, you know, and I just likemost people that that know me
like, if you do like aninvestigation on, maybe like yo,
he wasn't really like a peopleperson.
He, he go do his thing and thatwas it.
Because I know how people are.
I've seen people that I knowand certain individuals they
(01:00:59):
used to talk about and they waslike yo.
He told on me and this is likemy era growing up, so I always
had that thing.
And then an old time told me onetime, you know, in Brooklyn.
He was like listen, if you feelyou can't trust him, don't do
(01:01:19):
nothing around him, don't donothing with him.
He said don't be with a personthat people are saying that he's
a snitch.
You know, back then they usedto call them stool pigeons.
Don't be with somebody that's astool pigeon and when something
happens now what you going todo, you shouldn't have been with
him.
And I hear a couple of people onyour cast.
(01:01:40):
You know they be yeah, this,that and the third, but you're
still hanging with him.
Yeah, you still be with him.
Dudes know to do whiz becausesomebody had asked me one time.
Oh, I didn't know, whiz was arap.
I said yeah, you told him.
I said yo, but you know heain't running around like you
know hummingstunting and none ofthat, but it is what it is.
But then they still hang aroundhim.
(01:02:01):
You still.
You know you disclosing prettymuch.
You know when you're hangingwith the dude, you know what he
is.
So if you get caught, that's onthem.
Just like when I heard, whenthey knew that a couple of
people that was rats I heard onone of your things.
(01:02:23):
It was like, well, you know,this dude was a rat and you're
still around him.
Okay, well, if you get caught,you do something, because the
way they're talking like they'restill in the streets.
Well, if you go to jail and hetold on you, whose fault is it?
Yeah, that's a fact.
Don't run around saying, well,he ain't gonna tell on me
because that's my man.
You know it's like an exceptionto a rule, but a road in there
(01:02:44):
ain't no exception, there isnone.
He gonna save his ass.
Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yeah, that's a fact At any cost, save his ass.
Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
And you know, just to put the icing on the cake, you
know, fuck, how people feel like.
I heard the uh the cast withyou and the brothers from
connecticut talking and they waslike telling you same thing.
I'm telling you.
Fuck them people, that meansyou're doing a good job, bro
yeah, that's a fact.
You're talking about my man,randy, and oh yeah, when they
(01:03:16):
was telling you you know, fuckthem people.
So what?
They saying this?
They saying that you got yourcash you doing what you doing.
The more people that's here,that means you're doing
something right.
Yeah, that's a fact.
I agree.
You feel me.
You're doing something right.
Fuck them motherfuckers.
Tell them to eat shit and barkat the moon.
Something right, fuck themmotherfuckers.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Tell them to eat shit and bark at the moon.
Yeah, that's a fact, and we canend it at that.
I appreciate your time.
I appreciate this interview,man.
Real love yeah, that's a fact.
Likewise, you know what I'msaying.
You know what I mean.
We're going to get your voiceout there to the people, get
your story out there, and youknow what I'm saying.
Hopefully, some, some justicecomes from it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Exactly, and I appreciate it and I appreciate
you Absolutely, good brother.
And if you want another one,you know to keep it going about
like you know the system, thejudicial system and the
penitentiary we do, we set it up.
Do another one, because I gotsome stories to tell you about
the penitentiary too.
Yeah, more than just that.
(01:04:18):
What's that mid-state and Marcyincident?
Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
There's more to it.
Yeah, definitely, we coulddefinitely circle back for a
part two.
You know what I'm saying.
I appreciate your time in thisinterview.
Good brother, okay, you stayblessed.
Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Yes, sir, you too, all right.
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