October 16, 2024 • 23 mins
Is there still a place for local journalism in today’s media landscape? This week, Roger welcomes the 2023 Joseph Rago Memorial Journalism Fellow, Sierra McClain. They discuss her experiences from the fellowship, the true value of on-the-ground journalism, the differences between local and national journalism, and advice for young journalists.
Sierra is the assistant editorial features editor for The Wall Street Journal, a position she secured upon completion of her Rago Fellowship. Prior to The Journal, she was a correspondent for the Capital Press, a regional newspaper covering agricultural business in California, Oregon, Washington and Idaho. She graduated from the University of Oregon, earning a bachelor’s in history and a master’s in journalism.
The Liberty + Leadership Podcast is hosted by TFAS president Roger Ream and produced by Podville Media. If you have a comment or question for the show, please email us at podcast@TFAS.org. To support TFAS and its mission, please visit TFAS.org/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Liberty and Leadership Podcast,
a conversation with TFAS alumni,faculty and friends who are
making an impact.
Today I'm your host, roger Ream.
Today, my guest is AssistantEditorial Features Editor at the
Wall Street Journal, sierraMcLean.
Sierra was the 2023 Joseph RagoFellow at the Journal and on
(00:25):
completion of her fellowship,she joined the staff there.
The Joseph Rago Fellowship wasestablished by the parents of
the late Joe Rago, who was anoutstanding journalist and
winner of the 2011 PulitzerPrize for Editorial Writing.
Tfas works with the Journal andJoe's parents, paul and Nancy
Rago, to select outstandingyoung journalists and provide
(00:49):
them with an opportunity to workat the journal for up to nine
months.
Sierra was our sixth JosephRago Fellow in 2023-2024.
Prior to becoming a Rago Fellow, sierra was a correspondent for
the Capital Press, a regionalnewspaper covering agricultural
business in California, oregon,washington and Idaho.
(01:10):
Sierra attended the Universityof Oregon, earning a bachelor's
degree in history and a master'sin journalism.
Sierra, thank you so much forjoining me.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
This week I was at the offices of the Wall Street
Journal for a meeting and when Iwalked around the corner there
were three past Joseph Ragofellows you, elliot Kaufman and
Faith Bottom.
And then I went into a meetingwith our two current fellows,
luke Lyman and Jillian Letterman, and I must say it was really a
great thrill for me to see allfive of you there and to think
(01:44):
about the legacy we've createdfor Joe Rago, who was an
outstanding journalist, and Iknow his parents just love the
fact that we've got this line ofyoung journalists now who are
following in Joe's footsteps.
Let me begin by asking you whatwas it like to be a Rago fellow
during your nine months in thatposition?
We're just shy of nine months.
(02:05):
Actually, they hired you beforethe fellowship ended, but I
understand they treat you asregular staff once you arrive
there to be a fellow.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, it was wonderful, I mean completely
life-changing.
I loved the journal as a readerfor years but being able to be
there in person, you know,internally, to meet the writers
and the editors who I hadadmired for so many years and
whose writing had influenced me,to be able to actually get to
know them in person and learnfrom them, was incredible.
And I was really blessed thatthey, you know, immediately
(02:32):
trusted me to do challengingtasks.
That just helped me grow,everything from editing to
working on writing assignmentsand sitting in on editorial
board meetings, hearing just thestrategy and the strategy and
the debate and the questions,the funny jokes.
I mean it was just amazingbeing able to sit in in person
on all of that.
I really think it's the bestfellowship in journalism out
(02:55):
there and I'm so thankful youguys chose me for it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
It wasn't a hard decision, even though we had a
lot of applicants and somereally strong finalists.
You stood out.
Just a few weeks into yourfellowship, you published a
piece, a byline piece.
That must have been a thrill.
What was that like to have apiece published, and could you
talk about that piece onAfghanistan?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it was so exciting,obviously, just to pick up a
copy of the Wall Street Journalthat I've been reading for years
and to see my name in it, butit was also just exciting to be
able to tell a story aboutsomething that I thought was so
important, about the Bidenadministration's withdrawal from
Afghanistan and theconsequences that that has had
for so many families.
I was able to interviewmilitary members who were
(03:37):
affected, as well as people whohad been Afghan allies working
with the US both those who hadbeen evacuated and now had sort
of a immigration status in limbobut then also had the
opportunity to interview someonethere who was still trapped and
obviously didn't use his nameto protect him, but who is
continuing to suffer theconsequences of that decision.
(03:58):
So it was both moving andinteresting to be able to tell
that story, but also justexciting to see my name in the
journal and to be a part of thisorganization that I've been a
huge fan of for so long.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
You've written now, of course, many other byline
pieces and they really are wideranging.
You've written about politicalraces in Texas, I think, in
California.
You've written about businessesJewish businesses in
Philadelphia being boycotted,about electric truck mandates in
California.
How do you go about kind ofdeciding?
Do you pitch the story tosomeone there when you come up
(04:31):
with an idea and then you see ifthey say that's something to do
, then you go out and do somereporting.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, it's been a combination of different ways
that stories have come about.
In some cases an idea has cometo me and I've gone and brought
it to Matthew Hennessy or JamesToronto, who make decisions
about whether or not it would bea good fit.
And in other cases they'vereached out to me and said hey,
can you do a piece on X, y or Z?
So in the case of the Texasrace that I covered, for
(04:57):
instance, paul Gigo and JamesToronto wanted someone to cover
that race and so they asked meif I would do so and bought a
plane ticket the next day andflew out the day after that.
So it was a pretty quickturnaround but a wonderful
adventure.
I really enjoyed it.
But in other instances an ideahas come to me.
So I wrote a piece, forinstance this week, on the
Western Wall and how each year,twice a year, in the spring and
(05:22):
in the fall for Jewish holidays,a rabbi and his assistants
remove notes from the WesternWall that people have left their
prayer notes.
And the way that that cameabout was just, I had heard for
years that this tradition tookplace and one day I just thought
wait, do all those notes stillfit there?
Like, where do they go?
They can't possibly all fitthere, and so I just was curious
, and so it sort of just chaseda curiosity that led to a really
(05:44):
interesting story.
So it's definitely a variety ofdifferent ways that stories
come about.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, it appeared today, the day we're recording
this interview.
It was great to see that in thepaper this morning.
My first question, I think,when I read it, was did you go
to Jerusalem to report on thatone?
I assume you probably didn't,given the situation there right
now.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I didn't not for this one.
I have been fortunate for manyof the stories this year to be
able to get out on the ground,but in this instance I was just
able to meet virtually with therabbi and his assistants.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
That brings up what I find very refreshing about the
journal opinion editorial pagesis it's not just opinion, it's
the people who write theirreport.
They go out to cover the storyand they talk to people and
they're giving us newinformation when we read it.
Has that been your experiencein writing?
You've really done a lot ofreporting for these stories
you've written.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Oh, absolutely.
I think there's nothing likebeing an eyewitness, being able
to get out on the ground.
Just taking, for an example,the California races that I
covered that are coming up inNovember, but I was there this
summer.
What made it interesting for mewas I interviewed a lot of
political experts in DC etcetera, sort of with a bird's
eye view of these races.
But even though they had thehistorical context and could
(06:57):
tell me the statistics, theyreally didn't have a flavor that
they were able to give me ofwhat the people on the ground
are like, what really matters tothem.
And so, getting out on theground and actually talking to a
huge number of voters potentialvoters about what really
matters to them, I got a totallydifferent idea of what's really
important on the ground thereand also just a better sense of
(07:18):
who the candidates are and whatthey're about.
So, yeah, I think getting outon the ground is the best way to
report.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
How would you describe yourself as a
journalist?
You know I'm thinking a littlebit of you were in journalism
for a good year or more afteryou finished school and as you
were going through school, youwere doing journalism and then
you became the Rago Fellow.
How would you describe yourselfas a journalist kind of today
versus kind of before youstarted in the Rago Fellowship?
Has it changed the way you goabout doing things?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I think some things have changed and some things
have carried over.
I think what has carried overhas been again just on the
ground reporting, doing in-depthinterviewing, understanding an
issue in depth before writingabout it.
I think that has carried over,but I think what's new,
especially with the RagoFellowship, is because the
emphasis is so much on editing.
(08:08):
That has made me a strongerwriter, because as I'm working
to improve the structure ofother people's pieces outside
contributors' pieces, I feellike it's actually improved my
own writing and the way that Ithink about structure and themes
when I'm going out to cover astory, as an example, covering
one of the races.
Recently, I had all thisinformation that I had collected
and then I had to sort ofsynthesize it and think about
(08:29):
well, what is the main themehere, what is the through line
in the story, in a way that Ithink was more coherent and more
structured perhaps than some ofmy previous reporting back in
Oregon, where maybe the themesweren't always quite as coherent
.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Why don't you talk a little bit about your experience
before coming to the journal inOregon, because you did have
interesting experience therecovering the agricultural
business and policy related tothat.
Could you talk about that alittle?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Oh, I loved it, I was so blessed to have that job.
So the Capital Press is thename of the newspaper and it's
based in Oregon, but it coversCalifornia, oregon, washington
and Idaho and it's business newsrelated to the food system,
mainly agriculture, which soundslike a very niche topic
initially, but it intersectswith practically every area of
life.
I mean it was internationaltrade and labor and immigration
(09:19):
and supply chain and policy andregulation.
I mean so many differentaspects of our world intersect
with agriculture and so I wasconstantly learning, was
constantly learning.
What made that job particularlyfun was that I drove a lot
hundreds, sometimes thousands ofmiles, you know, all over the
(09:39):
Western US and got to doeverything from, you know,
riding horseback with cattleranchers to helping make wine
with you know, winemakers andgrape pickers, to riding along
with truck drivers at the portslooking how, you know, food was
shipped internationally.
I think that was probably oneof the most valuable reporting
experiences of my life and alsojust prepared me for the journal
(10:00):
as well, to better understandbroader systems, you know,
globally, but also just, I think, being able to tell human
stories as well, about thepeople, the laborers, the
business owners, etc.
That policies affect for,cetera, that policies affect,
for instance, that regulationsaffect.
These aren't just abstract, butthey're people and their
families and their businesses.
So, yeah, it was a wonderfulexperience.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It is fascinating that whole area you covered that
we just all take for grantedthat we'll have food on the
table tonight.
The grocery store will havefood.
I remember a documentary I sawwhere these container ships are
coming into a port.
The documentary I saw was onRotterdam, how the crew is, you
know, the container filled withbananas.
They're adjusting thetemperature slightly every day
(10:41):
and so the ripeness of thebananas is perfect when it gets
to Rotterdam and they're sentout to grocery stores.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh, it's so elaborate .
One of my favorite stories thatI did sort of on that topic of
how minute the details are is I.
It was called the secret lifeof spinach.
I followed a pallet of spinachall the way from the field to
its final destination, so likestarted at the farm and watched
it get harvested and thenwatched it get put on a truck
and then followed it all the waythrough, you know, drove with
(11:07):
the truck driver, went to thewarehouse and, like you said,
with the bananas I mean just theperfect temperature control and
all the different steps all theway to the grocery store, all
the way to the final consumer.
It's pretty mind-blowing.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I was going to ask you another question about your
work in Oregon.
Oh, and in school, injournalism school, did that
experience prepare you well foryour work in journalism?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
The University of Oregonobviously is more leftist and so
I didn't necessarily alwaysagree with the ideology that I
was taught.
But in terms of just nuts andbolts, you know how to report
well, how to interview.
I also learned photojournalismand videography while I was
there, which has proved useful.
It was a really good program interms of just the core hard
(11:49):
skills that I've been able toapply, so I was very thankful to
be able to do that.
My undergrad was in history, sothat sort of prepared me more
with sort of knowledge of theworld.
And you know, obviously it washelpful in the writing sphere,
but more in the academic sense,so it was definitely helpful to
be able to transition me to morenewsy style writing.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I'm curious, sierra, whether you detect any kind of
difference between working, asyou did before, for a regional
publication versus now writingfor something that's national or
even international.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, there are big differences and similarities as
well.
I think both are incrediblyimportant.
It actually makes me sad to seethe decline of local newspapers
and regional newspapers acrossthe US, and I understand part of
why that happens.
Obviously it has everything todo with a combination of, you
know, readership and peopleturning elsewhere for news and
profits and consolidation and alot of different factors that
you know, some of which areinevitable.
(12:41):
But I think something aboutlocal news that's different than
national news is you can reallydig into what's happening in
the state legislature or what'shappening in a local city,
council or community thatotherwise might get overlooked
by national newspapers simplybecause they have so much to
cover.
I was at the Capitol Press.
I was actually shocked by justthe gravity of some of the
(13:05):
regulations that were passed orthings happening in communities
that readers otherwise wouldn'thave known about, that
profoundly impacted their lives,their families, their
businesses, and so I thinkthere's a real service there.
But at the same time, again,local newspapers don't
necessarily have the capital,the resources sometimes to cover
some of the global and nationalreally important topics that
(13:27):
national newspapers cover.
I mean, I've I loved both, Ithink in different ways, like
covering again local news,things that were overlooked but
that really impacted people'slives.
But at the Wall Street Journalit's been, you know, covering.
We do cover regional stories aswell and certainly do dig into
state legislatures, but mostlycovering like the top news
stories of the day happening allover the world.
And I love that too.
(13:48):
I think it's fascinating.
I think larger newspapers havethe ability to maybe equip
reporters with more resources togo even further and dig even
further.
But again, I think there's avalue to both and I hope that
both are able to continuethriving.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Speaking of regulations that impact people,
you did write a piece for theWall Street Journal about the
electric truck mandate inCalifornia.
Why don't you say somethingabout that?
Because that was an interestingstory and with a great headline
on it.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, no, I absolutely loveddoing that.
It was fun.
I like telling stories, as I'vementioned, where it's not just
about the policy abstractly buthow it actually affects people's
lives.
So for that story I rode alongall day with a driver of an
electric semi truck and just sawCalifornia's requirements for
moving to electric semi trucks,how that affected him and the
(14:40):
business that he was working for, and it was pretty surprising
to see, you know just the hoursthat he had to sit and wait at a
charging station, the fact thatthere weren't charging stations
at some of the places he neededto go, just how many hours and
how much more burden it added tohis day and overall than the
cost that was passed on to thebusiness and then ultimately to
(15:00):
the consumer.
I think just being able to getthere and see it in person made
it very clear just howproblematic this California
policy was.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, I rode in a Lyft driver the other day who
had a Tesla picked me up at theairport and I said how do you
like your Tesla?
He said oh, I love it, I loveit.
He said the only thing I don'tlike is I have to charge it when
I'm still trying to get faresand pick up passengers, so I
can't get through the whole daywithout charging it.
And I think the headline onyour piece was about the
(15:29):
California mandate, that was,truckers charging overtime.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Right yeah, electric mandates.
Have truckers charging overtime?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah Well, as I recall from a few years ago when
we interviewed you for thefellowship, you had, at least
for part of your education, beenhomeschooled, and I was
impressed when you told me thatyou had really absorbed yourself
in the writings of people likeMilton Friedman and Tom Sowell,
and I imagine that helped giveyou a good foundation for what
(15:56):
you're doing in journalism.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Oh, absolutely.
Yes, that was actually acombination of my high school
years.
I was homeschooled K through 12.
So during those years I wasreading a lot of books like that
.
But it was also audio booksthat I was listening to during
my long drives when I was aCapitol Press reporter.
So I'd be like driving you knowseven hours from Western to
Eastern Oregon listening toMilton Friedman or like a Paul
(16:20):
Johnson history book orsomething like that.
So it was definitely a timewell spent, but I was in the car
enough that I read quite a lotof books that way as well.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
What advice would you give to young journalists,
those in college?
We've been working to developand support campus newspapers.
We've got a network now we callthe Student Journalism
Association.
We have over 400 collegestudents who've joined this.
We did three training sessionsthis past year in Chicago,
charlottesville and in New York.
(16:49):
In fact Paul Gigault spoke atour program in New York trying
to develop talent on campusesfor careers in journalism and to
give them the kind of supportand encouragement so they want
to pursue those careers thatthey don't graduate and then go
to work on Wall Street butrather decide.
And the Rago Fellowship, ofcourse, is a great way to make
sure that students do go intojournalism.
(17:10):
But we're bringing some toWashington for summer long
internships to get a taste ofthe profession.
But if you were talking to ayoung person who's on campus
maybe working for the schoolpaper, what advice would you
give to them if they're thinkingabout a career school?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
paper.
What advice would you give tothem if they're thinking about a
career?
I think definitely internships,fellowships, anything that can
give you sort of real lifeexperience in journalism is
probably the number one thingthat I'd recommend, just because
whether you're doing a programthat is not journalistic in
nature or whether you'restudying journalism, the pace of
working in school essentiallyis very different than real life
(17:48):
reporting.
So like, for example, mymaster's program, I learned a
lot of nuts and bolts ofreporting.
It was very helpful, learnedhow to write better, etc.
But the pace wasn't likecranking out daily news.
When I actually went and did myinternship that later turned
into a job at the Capitol Press,I mean it was like daily news
stories running out there andcovering things, and so I think
(18:09):
just that sort of experienceactually getting out there and
learning to adapt to the pace ofjournalism I think is probably
the best advice I can give.
Just try to apply for as manyinternships as you can as a
student.
But I also really wouldrecommend a lot of the training
programs that are out there.
I mean, I think everything fromlike, for example I'm
forgetting the full name of it,it's SubU, it's essentially
(18:30):
business editors and writers.
It's an association that's beenreally great.
I recommend that they havegreat trainings on everything
from using data in journalism todoing investigations.
The investigative reporters andeditors program I mentioned
again didn't necessarily agreewith all of the ideology, but I
learned how to place betterpublic records requests and how
(18:51):
to collect information thatotherwise is hard to access.
And so you know, or even justthink in creative ways about the
ways that, for example,government intersects with the
private sector, where maybeyou're trying to investigate
something and trying to findthose points of entry where you
can get public information.
So you know, I think that isvery helpful.
I also recommend, even like theSociety for Professional
(19:12):
Journalists has good trainingson things like if you're going
out to cover a wildfire, likewildfire safety preparedness.
Yeah, I definitely wouldn'tunderrate those types of
organizations, even if, again,like ideologically maybe they're
not necessarily in alignmentwith the average conservative.
I think that they do have someuseful tips and tools to offer.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, I imagine in reference to that kind of pace
you had at the Capitol Presswhere you're cranking out
stories all the time.
Where you are now, it's alittle bit different.
I mean, I guess every day youmight be under a deadline to
edit pieces that contributorsare submitting in, while also
working on a piece of your ownthat takes maybe a few weeks of
reporting and writing.
(19:52):
So is that kind of a balancingwhere some things you are
working on are like dailydeadlines have to be met so it's
going to get ready for thepaper tomorrow and other things.
You have a little more longerlead time to develop.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Oh yeah, definitely, and it can be hard to predict
because we're trying to workahead as much as possible.
So like, for example, rightbefore this call, I just edited
a piece for Tuesday that isfairly static in terms of like
it could run Tuesday orWednesday or Thursday.
It doesn't need to be runimmediately, but it's quite
possible that I'll log into myemail right after this and there
will be some kind of breakingnews and something that needs to
(20:25):
be edited in a couple of hourstoday to run into tomorrow's
paper, like that happensregularly.
So you know it's a little bitof hurry up and wait.
Sometimes you're working aheadand the pace is fairly
comfortable, and other times,you know it's like Trump was
almost shot or Biden justdropped out of the race or
whatnot, and it's okay, here wego, let's get this done quickly.
And then, in terms of you know,the pace of writing, that also
(20:46):
definitely depends.
Like this piece I wrote aboutthe Western Wall this week.
Actually, I started reportingback in April and was originally
going to run it for the Jewishholiday in April and then it
ended up running in the fallinstead.
So it's been you know months,whereas the piece on
California's races I reported onI think it was a Tuesday wrote
it on a Wednesday and then itran on a Thursday and so that
(21:12):
was a quick turnaround, so itreally depends on the situation.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, it's really great to know that you and two
other Rega fellows are therefull-time now and we have two
new fellows working there now.
We also one thing I did mentionin my introduction is we have
the Robert Novak JournalismFellowship Program, which we
provide fellowships to youngjournalists who have writing
projects they want to pursue andwe'll give them a grant that
(21:34):
will help cover their time andtheir expense doing that.
And three of our previous Novakfellows now work as colleagues
of yours at the journal KylePeterson, kate O'Dell and Mene
Ukaburuo.
So we're great to have thatconnection to you and we'll be
announcing a new class offellows at our November 12th
dinner in New York seven newNovak fellows plus the two Rago
(21:55):
fellows.
So I really think this is a wayto encourage talented young
people like yourself to go intojournalism and can transform the
media in the future.
And they won't all end up atthe Wall Street Journal.
I think that's great.
Kareem Hajar, who was a NovakFellow, of course, is working at
the Boston Globe.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
And doing an amazing job yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, appearing on Fox Business regularly and it's
a great program and we'repleased that you're part of it,
sierra, and thank you forjoining me today on the Liberty
and Leadership Podcast.
It's been a pleasure to talkwith you.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Thank you.
I couldn't be more grateful forTFAS.
It's changed my life in thebest possible way.
So thank you for everything andthank you for having me today.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Thanks.
Thank you for listening to theLiberty and Leadership Podcast.
If you have a comment orquestion, please drop us an
email at podcast at tfasorg, andbe sure to subscribe to the
show.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Liberty and Leadership Podcast,
a conversation with TFAS alumni,faculty and friends who are
making an impact.
Today I'm your host, roger Ream.
Today, my guest is AssistantEditorial Features Editor at the
Wall Street Journal, sierraMcLean.
Sierra was the 2023 Joseph RagoFellow at the Journal and on
(00:25):
completion of her fellowship,she joined the staff there.
The Joseph Rago Fellowship wasestablished by the parents of
the late Joe Rago, who was anoutstanding journalist and
winner of the 2011 PulitzerPrize for Editorial Writing.
Tfas works with the Journal andJoe's parents, paul and Nancy
Rago, to select outstandingyoung journalists and provide
(00:49):
them with an opportunity to workat the journal for up to nine
months.
Sierra was our sixth JosephRago Fellow in 2023-2024.
Prior to becoming a Rago Fellow, sierra was a correspondent for
the Capital Press, a regionalnewspaper covering agricultural
business in California, oregon,washington and Idaho.
(01:10):
Sierra attended the Universityof Oregon, earning a bachelor's
degree in history and a master'sin journalism.
Sierra, thank you so much forjoining me.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
This week I was at the offices of the Wall Street
Journal for a meeting and when Iwalked around the corner there
were three past Joseph Ragofellows you, elliot Kaufman and
Faith Bottom.
And then I went into a meetingwith our two current fellows,
luke Lyman and Jillian Letterman, and I must say it was really a
great thrill for me to see allfive of you there and to think
(01:44):
about the legacy we've createdfor Joe Rago, who was an
outstanding journalist, and Iknow his parents just love the
fact that we've got this line ofyoung journalists now who are
following in Joe's footsteps.
Let me begin by asking you whatwas it like to be a Rago fellow
during your nine months in thatposition?
We're just shy of nine months.
(02:05):
Actually, they hired you beforethe fellowship ended, but I
understand they treat you asregular staff once you arrive
there to be a fellow.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, it was wonderful, I mean completely
life-changing.
I loved the journal as a readerfor years but being able to be
there in person, you know,internally, to meet the writers
and the editors who I hadadmired for so many years and
whose writing had influenced me,to be able to actually get to
know them in person and learnfrom them, was incredible.
And I was really blessed thatthey, you know, immediately
(02:32):
trusted me to do challengingtasks.
That just helped me grow,everything from editing to
working on writing assignmentsand sitting in on editorial
board meetings, hearing just thestrategy and the strategy and
the debate and the questions,the funny jokes.
I mean it was just amazingbeing able to sit in in person
on all of that.
I really think it's the bestfellowship in journalism out
(02:55):
there and I'm so thankful youguys chose me for it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
It wasn't a hard decision, even though we had a
lot of applicants and somereally strong finalists.
You stood out.
Just a few weeks into yourfellowship, you published a
piece, a byline piece.
That must have been a thrill.
What was that like to have apiece published, and could you
talk about that piece onAfghanistan?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it was so exciting,obviously, just to pick up a
copy of the Wall Street Journalthat I've been reading for years
and to see my name in it, butit was also just exciting to be
able to tell a story aboutsomething that I thought was so
important, about the Bidenadministration's withdrawal from
Afghanistan and theconsequences that that has had
for so many families.
I was able to interviewmilitary members who were
(03:37):
affected, as well as people whohad been Afghan allies working
with the US both those who hadbeen evacuated and now had sort
of a immigration status in limbobut then also had the
opportunity to interview someonethere who was still trapped and
obviously didn't use his nameto protect him, but who is
continuing to suffer theconsequences of that decision.
(03:58):
So it was both moving andinteresting to be able to tell
that story, but also justexciting to see my name in the
journal and to be a part of thisorganization that I've been a
huge fan of for so long.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
You've written now, of course, many other byline
pieces and they really are wideranging.
You've written about politicalraces in Texas, I think, in
California.
You've written about businessesJewish businesses in
Philadelphia being boycotted,about electric truck mandates in
California.
How do you go about kind ofdeciding?
Do you pitch the story tosomeone there when you come up
(04:31):
with an idea and then you see ifthey say that's something to do
, then you go out and do somereporting.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, it's been a combination of different ways
that stories have come about.
In some cases an idea has cometo me and I've gone and brought
it to Matthew Hennessy or JamesToronto, who make decisions
about whether or not it would bea good fit.
And in other cases they'vereached out to me and said hey,
can you do a piece on X, y or Z?
So in the case of the Texasrace that I covered, for
(04:57):
instance, paul Gigo and JamesToronto wanted someone to cover
that race and so they asked meif I would do so and bought a
plane ticket the next day andflew out the day after that.
So it was a pretty quickturnaround but a wonderful
adventure.
I really enjoyed it.
But in other instances an ideahas come to me.
So I wrote a piece, forinstance this week, on the
Western Wall and how each year,twice a year, in the spring and
(05:22):
in the fall for Jewish holidays,a rabbi and his assistants
remove notes from the WesternWall that people have left their
prayer notes.
And the way that that cameabout was just, I had heard for
years that this tradition tookplace and one day I just thought
wait, do all those notes stillfit there?
Like, where do they go?
They can't possibly all fitthere, and so I just was curious
, and so it sort of just chaseda curiosity that led to a really
(05:44):
interesting story.
So it's definitely a variety ofdifferent ways that stories
come about.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, it appeared today, the day we're recording
this interview.
It was great to see that in thepaper this morning.
My first question, I think,when I read it, was did you go
to Jerusalem to report on thatone?
I assume you probably didn't,given the situation there right
now.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I didn't not for this one.
I have been fortunate for manyof the stories this year to be
able to get out on the ground,but in this instance I was just
able to meet virtually with therabbi and his assistants.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
That brings up what I find very refreshing about the
journal opinion editorial pagesis it's not just opinion, it's
the people who write theirreport.
They go out to cover the storyand they talk to people and
they're giving us newinformation when we read it.
Has that been your experiencein writing?
You've really done a lot ofreporting for these stories
you've written.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Oh, absolutely.
I think there's nothing likebeing an eyewitness, being able
to get out on the ground.
Just taking, for an example,the California races that I
covered that are coming up inNovember, but I was there this
summer.
What made it interesting for mewas I interviewed a lot of
political experts in DC etcetera, sort of with a bird's
eye view of these races.
But even though they had thehistorical context and could
(06:57):
tell me the statistics, theyreally didn't have a flavor that
they were able to give me ofwhat the people on the ground
are like, what really matters tothem.
And so, getting out on theground and actually talking to a
huge number of voters potentialvoters about what really
matters to them, I got a totallydifferent idea of what's really
important on the ground thereand also just a better sense of
(07:18):
who the candidates are and whatthey're about.
So, yeah, I think getting outon the ground is the best way to
report.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
How would you describe yourself as a
journalist?
You know I'm thinking a littlebit of you were in journalism
for a good year or more afteryou finished school and as you
were going through school, youwere doing journalism and then
you became the Rago Fellow.
How would you describe yourselfas a journalist kind of today
versus kind of before youstarted in the Rago Fellowship?
Has it changed the way you goabout doing things?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I think some things have changed and some things
have carried over.
I think what has carried overhas been again just on the
ground reporting, doing in-depthinterviewing, understanding an
issue in depth before writingabout it.
I think that has carried over,but I think what's new,
especially with the RagoFellowship, is because the
emphasis is so much on editing.
(08:08):
That has made me a strongerwriter, because as I'm working
to improve the structure ofother people's pieces outside
contributors' pieces, I feellike it's actually improved my
own writing and the way that Ithink about structure and themes
when I'm going out to cover astory, as an example, covering
one of the races.
Recently, I had all thisinformation that I had collected
and then I had to sort ofsynthesize it and think about
(08:29):
well, what is the main themehere, what is the through line
in the story, in a way that Ithink was more coherent and more
structured perhaps than some ofmy previous reporting back in
Oregon, where maybe the themesweren't always quite as coherent
.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Why don't you talk a little bit about your experience
before coming to the journal inOregon, because you did have
interesting experience therecovering the agricultural
business and policy related tothat.
Could you talk about that alittle?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Oh, I loved it, I was so blessed to have that job.
So the Capital Press is thename of the newspaper and it's
based in Oregon, but it coversCalifornia, oregon, washington
and Idaho and it's business newsrelated to the food system,
mainly agriculture, which soundslike a very niche topic
initially, but it intersectswith practically every area of
life.
I mean it was internationaltrade and labor and immigration
(09:19):
and supply chain and policy andregulation.
I mean so many differentaspects of our world intersect
with agriculture and so I wasconstantly learning, was
constantly learning.
What made that job particularlyfun was that I drove a lot
hundreds, sometimes thousands ofmiles, you know, all over the
(09:39):
Western US and got to doeverything from, you know,
riding horseback with cattleranchers to helping make wine
with you know, winemakers andgrape pickers, to riding along
with truck drivers at the portslooking how, you know, food was
shipped internationally.
I think that was probably oneof the most valuable reporting
experiences of my life and alsojust prepared me for the journal
(10:00):
as well, to better understandbroader systems, you know,
globally, but also just, I think, being able to tell human
stories as well, about thepeople, the laborers, the
business owners, etc.
That policies affect for,cetera, that policies affect,
for instance, that regulationsaffect.
These aren't just abstract, butthey're people and their
families and their businesses.
So, yeah, it was a wonderfulexperience.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It is fascinating that whole area you covered that
we just all take for grantedthat we'll have food on the
table tonight.
The grocery store will havefood.
I remember a documentary I sawwhere these container ships are
coming into a port.
The documentary I saw was onRotterdam, how the crew is, you
know, the container filled withbananas.
They're adjusting thetemperature slightly every day
(10:41):
and so the ripeness of thebananas is perfect when it gets
to Rotterdam and they're sentout to grocery stores.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh, it's so elaborate .
One of my favorite stories thatI did sort of on that topic of
how minute the details are is I.
It was called the secret lifeof spinach.
I followed a pallet of spinachall the way from the field to
its final destination, so likestarted at the farm and watched
it get harvested and thenwatched it get put on a truck
and then followed it all the waythrough, you know, drove with
(11:07):
the truck driver, went to thewarehouse and, like you said,
with the bananas I mean just theperfect temperature control and
all the different steps all theway to the grocery store, all
the way to the final consumer.
It's pretty mind-blowing.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I was going to ask you another question about your
work in Oregon.
Oh, and in school, injournalism school, did that
experience prepare you well foryour work in journalism?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
The University of Oregonobviously is more leftist and so
I didn't necessarily alwaysagree with the ideology that I
was taught.
But in terms of just nuts andbolts, you know how to report
well, how to interview.
I also learned photojournalismand videography while I was
there, which has proved useful.
It was a really good program interms of just the core hard
(11:49):
skills that I've been able toapply, so I was very thankful to
be able to do that.
My undergrad was in history, sothat sort of prepared me more
with sort of knowledge of theworld.
And you know, obviously it washelpful in the writing sphere,
but more in the academic sense,so it was definitely helpful to
be able to transition me to morenewsy style writing.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I'm curious, sierra, whether you detect any kind of
difference between working, asyou did before, for a regional
publication versus now writingfor something that's national or
even international.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, there are big differences and similarities as
well.
I think both are incrediblyimportant.
It actually makes me sad to seethe decline of local newspapers
and regional newspapers acrossthe US, and I understand part of
why that happens.
Obviously it has everything todo with a combination of, you
know, readership and peopleturning elsewhere for news and
profits and consolidation and alot of different factors that
you know, some of which areinevitable.
(12:41):
But I think something aboutlocal news that's different than
national news is you can reallydig into what's happening in
the state legislature or what'shappening in a local city,
council or community thatotherwise might get overlooked
by national newspapers simplybecause they have so much to
cover.
I was at the Capitol Press.
I was actually shocked by justthe gravity of some of the
(13:05):
regulations that were passed orthings happening in communities
that readers otherwise wouldn'thave known about, that
profoundly impacted their lives,their families, their
businesses, and so I thinkthere's a real service there.
But at the same time, again,local newspapers don't
necessarily have the capital,the resources sometimes to cover
some of the global and nationalreally important topics that
(13:27):
national newspapers cover.
I mean, I've I loved both, Ithink in different ways, like
covering again local news,things that were overlooked but
that really impacted people'slives.
But at the Wall Street Journalit's been, you know, covering.
We do cover regional stories aswell and certainly do dig into
state legislatures, but mostlycovering like the top news
stories of the day happening allover the world.
And I love that too.
(13:48):
I think it's fascinating.
I think larger newspapers havethe ability to maybe equip
reporters with more resources togo even further and dig even
further.
But again, I think there's avalue to both and I hope that
both are able to continuethriving.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Speaking of regulations that impact people,
you did write a piece for theWall Street Journal about the
electric truck mandate inCalifornia.
Why don't you say somethingabout that?
Because that was an interestingstory and with a great headline
on it.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, no, I absolutely loveddoing that.
It was fun.
I like telling stories, as I'vementioned, where it's not just
about the policy abstractly buthow it actually affects people's
lives.
So for that story I rode alongall day with a driver of an
electric semi truck and just sawCalifornia's requirements for
moving to electric semi trucks,how that affected him and the
(14:40):
business that he was working for, and it was pretty surprising
to see, you know just the hoursthat he had to sit and wait at a
charging station, the fact thatthere weren't charging stations
at some of the places he neededto go, just how many hours and
how much more burden it added tohis day and overall than the
cost that was passed on to thebusiness and then ultimately to
(15:00):
the consumer.
I think just being able to getthere and see it in person made
it very clear just howproblematic this California
policy was.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, I rode in a Lyft driver the other day who
had a Tesla picked me up at theairport and I said how do you
like your Tesla?
He said oh, I love it, I loveit.
He said the only thing I don'tlike is I have to charge it when
I'm still trying to get faresand pick up passengers, so I
can't get through the whole daywithout charging it.
And I think the headline onyour piece was about the
(15:29):
California mandate, that was,truckers charging overtime.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Right yeah, electric mandates.
Have truckers charging overtime?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah Well, as I recall from a few years ago when
we interviewed you for thefellowship, you had, at least
for part of your education, beenhomeschooled, and I was
impressed when you told me thatyou had really absorbed yourself
in the writings of people likeMilton Friedman and Tom Sowell,
and I imagine that helped giveyou a good foundation for what
(15:56):
you're doing in journalism.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Oh, absolutely.
Yes, that was actually acombination of my high school
years.
I was homeschooled K through 12.
So during those years I wasreading a lot of books like that
.
But it was also audio booksthat I was listening to during
my long drives when I was aCapitol Press reporter.
So I'd be like driving you knowseven hours from Western to
Eastern Oregon listening toMilton Friedman or like a Paul
(16:20):
Johnson history book orsomething like that.
So it was definitely a timewell spent, but I was in the car
enough that I read quite a lotof books that way as well.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
What advice would you give to young journalists,
those in college?
We've been working to developand support campus newspapers.
We've got a network now we callthe Student Journalism
Association.
We have over 400 collegestudents who've joined this.
We did three training sessionsthis past year in Chicago,
charlottesville and in New York.
(16:49):
In fact Paul Gigault spoke atour program in New York trying
to develop talent on campusesfor careers in journalism and to
give them the kind of supportand encouragement so they want
to pursue those careers thatthey don't graduate and then go
to work on Wall Street butrather decide.
And the Rago Fellowship, ofcourse, is a great way to make
sure that students do go intojournalism.
(17:10):
But we're bringing some toWashington for summer long
internships to get a taste ofthe profession.
But if you were talking to ayoung person who's on campus
maybe working for the schoolpaper, what advice would you
give to them if they're thinkingabout a career school?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
paper.
What advice would you give tothem if they're thinking about a
career?
I think definitely internships,fellowships, anything that can
give you sort of real lifeexperience in journalism is
probably the number one thingthat I'd recommend, just because
whether you're doing a programthat is not journalistic in
nature or whether you'restudying journalism, the pace of
working in school essentiallyis very different than real life
(17:48):
reporting.
So like, for example, mymaster's program, I learned a
lot of nuts and bolts ofreporting.
It was very helpful, learnedhow to write better, etc.
But the pace wasn't likecranking out daily news.
When I actually went and did myinternship that later turned
into a job at the Capitol Press,I mean it was like daily news
stories running out there andcovering things, and so I think
(18:09):
just that sort of experienceactually getting out there and
learning to adapt to the pace ofjournalism I think is probably
the best advice I can give.
Just try to apply for as manyinternships as you can as a
student.
But I also really wouldrecommend a lot of the training
programs that are out there.
I mean, I think everything fromlike, for example I'm
forgetting the full name of it,it's SubU, it's essentially
(18:30):
business editors and writers.
It's an association that's beenreally great.
I recommend that they havegreat trainings on everything
from using data in journalism todoing investigations.
The investigative reporters andeditors program I mentioned
again didn't necessarily agreewith all of the ideology, but I
learned how to place betterpublic records requests and how
(18:51):
to collect information thatotherwise is hard to access.
And so you know, or even justthink in creative ways about the
ways that, for example,government intersects with the
private sector, where maybeyou're trying to investigate
something and trying to findthose points of entry where you
can get public information.
So you know, I think that isvery helpful.
I also recommend, even like theSociety for Professional
(19:12):
Journalists has good trainingson things like if you're going
out to cover a wildfire, likewildfire safety preparedness.
Yeah, I definitely wouldn'tunderrate those types of
organizations, even if, again,like ideologically maybe they're
not necessarily in alignmentwith the average conservative.
I think that they do have someuseful tips and tools to offer.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, I imagine in reference to that kind of pace
you had at the Capitol Presswhere you're cranking out
stories all the time.
Where you are now, it's alittle bit different.
I mean, I guess every day youmight be under a deadline to
edit pieces that contributorsare submitting in, while also
working on a piece of your ownthat takes maybe a few weeks of
reporting and writing.
(19:52):
So is that kind of a balancingwhere some things you are
working on are like dailydeadlines have to be met so it's
going to get ready for thepaper tomorrow and other things.
You have a little more longerlead time to develop.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Oh yeah, definitely, and it can be hard to predict
because we're trying to workahead as much as possible.
So like, for example, rightbefore this call, I just edited
a piece for Tuesday that isfairly static in terms of like
it could run Tuesday orWednesday or Thursday.
It doesn't need to be runimmediately, but it's quite
possible that I'll log into myemail right after this and there
will be some kind of breakingnews and something that needs to
(20:25):
be edited in a couple of hourstoday to run into tomorrow's
paper, like that happensregularly.
So you know it's a little bitof hurry up and wait.
Sometimes you're working aheadand the pace is fairly
comfortable, and other times,you know it's like Trump was
almost shot or Biden justdropped out of the race or
whatnot, and it's okay, here wego, let's get this done quickly.
And then, in terms of you know,the pace of writing, that also
(20:46):
definitely depends.
Like this piece I wrote aboutthe Western Wall this week.
Actually, I started reportingback in April and was originally
going to run it for the Jewishholiday in April and then it
ended up running in the fallinstead.
So it's been you know months,whereas the piece on
California's races I reported onI think it was a Tuesday wrote
it on a Wednesday and then itran on a Thursday and so that
(21:12):
was a quick turnaround, so itreally depends on the situation.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, it's really great to know that you and two
other Rega fellows are therefull-time now and we have two
new fellows working there now.
We also one thing I did mentionin my introduction is we have
the Robert Novak JournalismFellowship Program, which we
provide fellowships to youngjournalists who have writing
projects they want to pursue andwe'll give them a grant that
(21:34):
will help cover their time andtheir expense doing that.
And three of our previous Novakfellows now work as colleagues
of yours at the journal KylePeterson, kate O'Dell and Mene
Ukaburuo.
So we're great to have thatconnection to you and we'll be
announcing a new class offellows at our November 12th
dinner in New York seven newNovak fellows plus the two Rago
(21:55):
fellows.
So I really think this is a wayto encourage talented young
people like yourself to go intojournalism and can transform the
media in the future.
And they won't all end up atthe Wall Street Journal.
I think that's great.
Kareem Hajar, who was a NovakFellow, of course, is working at
the Boston Globe.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
And doing an amazing job yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, appearing on Fox Business regularly and it's
a great program and we'repleased that you're part of it,
sierra, and thank you forjoining me today on the Liberty
and Leadership Podcast.
It's been a pleasure to talkwith you.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Thank you.
I couldn't be more grateful forTFAS.
It's changed my life in thebest possible way.
So thank you for everything andthank you for having me today.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Thanks.
Thank you for listening to theLiberty and Leadership Podcast.
If you have a comment orquestion, please drop us an
email at podcast at tfasorg, andbe sure to subscribe to the
show.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.