March 17, 2025 • 50 mins
Dr. Clayton Shiu brings his expertise in treating brain injuries through a unique integration of traditional Chinese medicine and cutting-edge technology, creating remarkable results for patients with neurological conditions.
• Specialized training at Tianjin University of Traditional Chinese Medicine and the First Teaching Hospital of Tianjin
• Transitioned from sports medicine to neurology after recognizing growing trends in neurological disorders
• Uses careful observation and palpation to identify often-missed signs of brain injury
• Implements quantitative EEG (QEEG) to measure brain activity and track treatment progress
• Incorporates advanced red light therapy through the RegenPod to enhance mitochondrial function
• Teaches techniques for "awakening the Shen" - bringing consciousness back to areas affected by injury
• Developing Tai Chi programs that function as vestibular rehabilitation
• Often detects concussion symptoms in patients seeking treatment for seemingly unrelated conditions
Find Dr. Clayton Shiu at The Shiu Clinic in Manhattan and East Hampton (shiuclinic.com), on Instagram @jade_shaman, and learn about his teaching workshops at nanopunctureseminars.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (00:00):
In this episode, I interview my dear friend and
colleague, Dr Clayton Shiu.
Dr Shiu has a PhD from theTianjin University of
Traditional Chinese Medicine anddid his residency at the
Distinguished First TeachingHospital of Tianjin.
He specializes in braininjuries, stroke and
neurological disorders in hisclinics located in Manhattan and
(00:21):
the East Hamptons.
In our conversation, we discusshis integration of ancient
therapies with moderntechnologies such as
quantitative EEG in order totrack patients' progress and
healing.
Thanks so much for listeningand enjoy the episode.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (00:39):
Because just seeing, like a person's brain
awaken which in where I livedand was training in China, we
would call that awakening theShen right, or freeing the Shen
that's been buried we can sayand oftentimes I've heard
neurologists say that that partof the nervous system was asleep
(01:03):
and that now it's waking up.
And it's a beautiful thing thatwhen we met and maybe I was
coining that because that's whatI learned in Tianjin, but it
made perfect sense to you, right.
Welcome to the Life After Impactpodcast, where we do a deep
(01:23):
dive into all things concussionand brain injury related.
We talk about all the differentsymptoms that can follow a
brain injury, different testingmethods, different types of
specialists out there anddifferent therapies available.
I'm Sophia Bowens, I'm herewith Dr Ayla Wolf and we will be
your guide to living your bestlife after impact.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (01:51):
All right, welcome to Life After Impact the
concussion recovery podcast,and today I am interviewing Dr
Clayton Shiu, who is a licensedacupuncturist practicing in
Manhattan and East Hamptons, andDr Shiu and I met back in 2016
or 17 at a neuroscienceconference and found we had a
(02:14):
lot in common and teamed up andhave been teaching different
continuing education courses,and Dr Shiu has a amazing
specialty in brain injuries,involving both stroke as well as
traumatic brain injuries andconcussions.
He gets referrals from manydoctors and clinics all over New
York City, and so I'm veryexcited to welcome you to the
(02:37):
podcast and have you share moreabout your expertise and a lot
of the unique techniques andtechnology that you are
implementing in your clinic.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (02:48):
Thank you, Dr Wolf.
Can I call you Ayla you?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (02:52):
can call me Ayla.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (02:53):
yes, yeah, thank you for having me on the
show.
Congratulations, first off onlaunching your podcast and it's
amazing like just out of thegate growth.
I'm really proud of you and allyour accomplishments.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (03:08):
Oh, thank you.
get to be your wingman atsome of these events and special
accomplishments that you, youjust keep doing and stuff.
So well it's it's been wonderful being a guest
doctor at your clinic andgetting a chance to work side by
side you and your clinics bothyour clinics.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (03:30):
Yeah, thank you, and that's where it's a
blessing to have you come andshare your expertise.
We really have patients askingfor you or you know, like always
like inquiring about whenyou're going to return, so it's
been a great collaboration there, so.
But yeah, so I'm happy to be onyour new podcast and even like
(03:54):
seeing that you're going to meet.
Your new book is going to becoming out soon too, Is that
correct?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (03:58):
It is.
I had a great meeting with mypublisher just last week and
they have a lot on their end todo, and then I will be kind of
going through another round ofediting, but it shouldn't take
quite as long.
So we are getting close to thefinish line.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (04:12):
I think that your book will be a great
contribution and providing a lotof light into a very gray and,
you know, mysterious path thateveryone starts out on from a
traumatic brain injury.
So bravo to you there.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (04:28):
Thank you so much .
I do hope that the bookaccomplishes those tasks.
That's definitely the goal ofit is to try to cut through a
lot of the confusion on whatpeople do or don't need and what
kind of tests are out there.
And you know, giving peoplebecause you don't know what you
don't need and what kind oftests are out there, and giving
people because you don't knowwhat you don't know.
And so some people, if theydon't even recognize that they
(04:50):
haven't been properly assessed,then they don't even realize
that there are tests that areout there that haven't been done
yet and that there might beinsights that still need to be
gleamed from specific exams.
And so that's what I'm tryingto highlight is to make sure
people can read that book andsay have have I had all the
right testing done, or is theremore research that needs to
(05:12):
happen to figure out what'sdriving my symptoms that aren't
getting better on their own?
So exactly.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (05:17):
I mean, this is a funny example, but I had a
patient who was probably intheir late 50s, early 60s and
maybe definitely had someosteoarthritis or arthritis in
their hips, you know, and hadsome past injuries.
But they were scheduled to havelike a hip replacement, you
know, and they came in and I wastreating them for their hip and
(05:40):
everything their hip andeverything but then I noticed a
couple of times in the process,as we were going into the
pre-treatments, that theydefinitely had some very strange
eye movements, you know, as wewere talking or just sitting
down.
So I ran through the battery oftests that you taught me and I
was like, wait a second.
I think this person has beensuffering from long-term
(06:05):
concussion issues and symptoms.
So when we treated that, hermovement and her gait improved
greatly, significantly, andbasically she didn't need the
hip replacement, that's amazing.
Yeah, it's like, do you knowwhat I mean?
And so it's funny, because youhave to be really sharp and
(06:27):
sensitive to see something sorandom, right?
But then to connect the dotsand say, okay, now let's check
your neck and head and let's goback into, like you know, your
history a little bit more beforeyou get that hip replacement
operation, cause, let's, let'smake sure this is what we're
dealing with, you know?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (06:47):
Right, and I think a lot of people don't put
concussions down on their intakeforms as injuries, as it
doesn't occur to them right thatif they had a concussion five
years ago, 10 years ago, to evenput that on a medical intake
form and then you start askingpeople about their history of
head trauma.
and have you ever fallen off abicycle, been in a car accident,
(07:10):
you know, had a skiing accidentand all of a sudden you you
elicit from somebody a prettylengthy history of potential
head traumas that they hadforgotten about or didn't think
were relevant to why they werecoming in in the first place.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (07:24):
Yeah, exactly and you know, sometimes it's.
It's maybe because the patientmay have a fear that you know
well.
You think there'spsychologically something wrong
with me and we're like, no,we're not even talking about
like you're like we're justsaying, if you're having
subcognitive, you know deficitsthere that we're checking into.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (07:41):
Yeah, I had a fascinating conversation with my
dear friend, Alicia, who's amassage therapist that I work
with, and she was commenting onthe fact that you know, she sees
people you know you oftentimesonce a month.
You know for for years, for youknow general wellness and
maintenance and overall health,and made the comment that it's
(08:03):
really obvious when somebodydevelops a very mild cognitive
decline or cognitive impairment,because she sees how difficult
it is for them to flip over onthe table.
And this is, you know,something that someone's been
doing time and time again.
And it's like the procedure isyou flip over and then you move
(08:25):
down about a foot so that yourhead's not hanging off the table
.
And this is something that thisperson has been doing time and
time again.
And then all of a sudden oneday she says, okay, time to flip
over, and all of a sudden it'slike this big production and
they're not moving as well andthey don't know where their body
is in space, and all of asudden they they're laying on
the table crooked and they don'tknow where their head is and
it's hanging.
(08:45):
You know it's hanging off thetable and they forget to scoot
down and and.
So, because she spent so muchtime with these people.
Those things are very importantand it's like that.
That art of observation is sohuge and I think you know if you
think about somebody who'sbeing seen for an hour once a
month, every month, that's verydifferent from just having a
(09:08):
quick little 15-minute annualappointment with your doctor as
your annual wellness checkup orwhatever.
If they spend 15 minutes withyou and they don't even see you
moving around, they're going tomiss those things.
You can't pick that up in a15-minute appointment.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (09:30):
Yeah, exactly, you won't pick that up just
from watching someone walk backand forth, and it takes so much
coordination and core strengthand then rotation, like you said
.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (09:38):
I mean, it's like that thing where you know they
say that one of the tests forlongevity is can you get up off
the floor without using yourhands, and I think another great
test would to be how well canyou roll over on a treatment
table.
So why don't we start with yourbackground and can you share
with our audience how you kindof got got into working with
(10:02):
strokes and then traumatic braininjuries and concussions, and I
know you spent a good deal oftime in China at a hospital that
specializes in these things andpicked up a lot of techniques
and insights.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (10:15):
Yeah, so originally I was.
I was actually in more of theorthopedic sports medicine field
when I just got out of schoolin the acupuncture profession
this is probably in the early2000s and I was relatively, I
would say, successful in that Iwas already treating some
different, assisting to treatsome different professional
(10:38):
athletes in the major leaguebaseball, the NBA, some mixed
martial artists, and I wouldeven get flown to certain NBA
playoff games with to treat somedifferent players, and that was
fun.
That was really, reallyexciting.
I actually felt pretty solid,pretty good, very, very excited
about that whole field, whichhas grown into an amazing
(11:02):
specialty within our profession.
You know, tuning, like MSK ororthopedic injuries.
But one of the things thatalways caught my attention was
whenever somebody or a patientor a friend or relative, like if
they got a stroke or traumaticbrain injury, and then I always
(11:24):
felt like I was caught flatfooted and whatever things I
would try and never feltcomfortable.
You know, and I really knew inmy own personal wheelhouse,
being supposedly this veryestablished acupuncturist, I
just knew that man, there'sthere's a couple gray missing
pieces there and that reallybothered me and and the more I
(11:44):
looked at it like and I'm I'mvery good at looking at trends
and patterns and stuff.
Um, so I, the more I looked atit, I was like I think it's
getting worse.
Like I think I think strokesback in 2000,.
You know, actually 2011 or 12,at the time when this idea of me
(12:07):
pursuing stroke therapy or thebrain was around then and I was
seeing that it was getting worsebasically you mean that more
strokes were happening, it wasbecoming more frequent.
Yeah, it was like this growingepidemic, and not just stroke.
But you pull the curtain backmore and I saw that, okay,
(12:28):
parkinson's is on the rise,alzheimer's and I was like why
is this happening and why is itso out of control?
And my conclusion is in allthree or four disorders where
you're talking about stroke orParkinson's, alzheimer's or
concussion, you know you'redealing with the same organ,
which is the brain, right, butthe etiology changes.
(12:51):
So I was always tryingdifferent things.
I know there's something,there's a technique or a system
called scalp acupuncture, whichI'm not it's just not in my
wheelhouse or affinity towardswhich I'm not it's just not in
my wheelhouse or affinitytowards and you're referring to.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (13:09):
I mean, I think that system came about in the
1970s, if I'm correct, so it'sbeen around since the 70s, but
it's also kind of based on 1970sneuroscience as well, and we've
learned a whole lot more sincethen.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (13:22):
Exactly, and because I was a neuroanatomy
geek even when I went to BostonUniversity doing my undergrad,
like that was my favorite courseversus even gross anatomy and
other things like so.
So as I was finishing theChinese medicine studies and
stuff and had the neuroanatomy Ilike training in my head from
(13:44):
the 90s.
But then when I did see thescalp acupuncture principles, it
was based on more of like aone-to-one functional
relationship of the body, whichhas its contribution to
neuroscience too.
It's just that as we got intomore and more research and
(14:07):
technology got better atanalyzing nerves, the tissue,
the brain, the brain waves,right, how we even generate like
energy in a nerve or what's thebrain actually feeding on and
all that stuff, we noticed thatlike the brain isn't just one
section of the brain controlsone part of the body.
(14:27):
Each area of the brain is likea hub, kind of like JFK airport
or LAX.
Okay, yeah, so you've got like alot of different tissues
running through thisintersection and you can
manipulate it in many differentways.
You know which circulates usback to doing, like you know,
(14:52):
exercises like figure eights,right the limb, or or even using
um distal points.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (14:59):
it makes distal points make sense, you know
right, and so if you shut downjfk, it doesn't just affect JFK
airport, it affects every singleconnecting flight out of JFK.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (15:10):
Yes, exactly yeah.
And then if you, if you didshut down JFK airport, you would
have, you would see an increaseat LaGuardia airport and Newark
airport, and so they would takeon the flights and fly the
people congested at JFK Airport.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (15:36):
you know well and actually you know you bring up
a good point in that sensebecause there was some
relatively recent researchtalking about how, when you get
a concussion, certain jobs thatthe frontal lobe is supposed to
perform, if the frontal lobe isbasically not working as well
because of the concussion, theparietal lobe tries to take over
(15:59):
some of those functions.
But in doing that, you know,decreased activity in the
frontal lobe and perhaps somehyperactivity and other parts of
the parietal lobe which thenmight also translate into
somebody developing like motionsensitivity is extremely
complicated and you know, goingback to that idea of like the
(16:28):
1970s scalp acupuncture you lookat kind of like doing
acupuncture points over thecerebellum, you know they were
talking about it for, say, youknow, issues with ataxia or gait
problems.
But now we know the cerebellumalso plays a huge role in
coordinating our thoughts aswell, and there's this huge
(16:49):
cognitive component to thecerebellum.
And so, yeah, I think thebeauty of what you do now is
that you you're appreciating themodern day understanding of how
the brain works and how it'sall these different hubs that
are all integrated, and then youcan start to play around with
okay, well, what happens when weincrease activity over here?
(17:09):
Do we see positive downstreamconsequences over there?
And I think that's whereacupuncture is huge and I also.
One of the things that I thinkis really unique to you is your
power of observation of theactual human body and your
ability to actually see patternsin the human body.
(17:32):
And in your courses you talkabout you know the shape of the
neck being very significant andthe shape of the skull being
significant, and even looking atsomebody's back and how their
scapulas are positioned and howmuch you know kind of
inflammation you're seeingbetween the shoulder blades, and
so what I really appreciateabout what you teach is that
(17:55):
your power of observation is notjust even in neurological exams
, it's also in palpation skillsand in just physically looking
at a person's neck and sayingthis there's something wrong
here in terms of like wherethey're holding tension or where
this is sunken in, or, and Ithink that that's like really
(18:15):
beautiful, and I see that askind of this real specialty of
yours that you've you'vedeveloped like on your own, like
that's, that's yours.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (18:26):
Oh, thank you.
That's extremely kind,especially coming from you,
cause I respect everythingyou've taught me too and I think
, yeah, I my my approach in lifeis is not to discard things
that works, even if it becomeslike a little bit obsolete in
the current modern times.
(18:47):
It has its place when thesituation is right, you know so,
meaning like like the Walkmandidn't stop being made because
it couldn't play music.
You know?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (18:58):
So are you saying that, even though we have all
of these incredibly modern formsof technology, which you also
utilize in your clinic, yourecognize the power and the
significance of basic humanobservation, of simply looking
at somebody and saying I'mseeing a pattern here with all
(19:19):
of my patients that come in withX, y and Z, and that pattern in
their skull or their neck ortheir back is significant and
important and should be paidattention to?
Dr. Clayton Shiu (19:32):
Yes, exactly.
So meaning like oh yeah, it'slike.
This is where I was going withthis analogy.
Sorry, I get out.
You know me, I can get.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (19:41):
I'm trying to circle you back.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (19:43):
Yeah.
So let's say, we have like asuper advanced patient imaging
machine, you know like anultrasound or or like sonogram
device or something right?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (19:54):
Or a seven Tesla MRI.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (19:57):
Right, or a seven Tesla MRI and then and it
works great and it gives usthese images right, but what
happens later is like sometimes,that doctor or specialist, they
kind of stop touching thepatient, they stop using their
senses and their hands because Igot this mega million dollar
(20:17):
machine that can, that can tellme everything in the inside
seven inches inside the body,when I should have picked up
something right on the surface.
That would have saved a lot oftests and got us right there.
You, you know immediately.
So.
So that's what I mean by likethat, that palpation or
observation still hassignificance.
(20:39):
And yeah, I think what I'vedone to circle us back to your,
your observation of me is I'vecategorized the normal shapes of
things like the neck, thescapulas, the tone of the
trapezius, the shape of theskull and also the degree of
(21:00):
palpation, what I'm feeling as Ipush gently onto like different
surfaces.
Much in the same way we uselike pulse diagnosis which, as
we know, with just three fingerstouching one section of the
wrist, there's 24 plus qualities, right?
So you can imagine then, if youtake your three fingers on each
(21:21):
side and push it through andfollow the path of the skull
back to, like the occipitalridge right, like how many
different qualities of thingsyou could possibly notice with
during the session when you'rediagnosing or assessing, like a
mysterious brain disorder ortraumatic brain injury case.
(21:43):
And what I did was I don't knowif it was instinct, but even
when I was just doing sportsmedicine and regular wellness
acupuncture, I would just writeit, write down what I was
observing on post-its.
You know, so I and been doingthat for since my first year of
acupuncture practice.
So I was just, I would justnotice like man, I'm drawing the
(22:05):
same picture on this post-itand I keep observing the same
bumps that would come up, maybebehind the ear, so, for instance
, like when we palpate, evenbehind the helix of the ear.
In my practice there's like 10things you could observe and it
can tell you the quality of theperson's hearing, it could
(22:29):
explain to you if they're havingtinnitus, if they have a
toothache, if they have blurryvision, if they, you know, are
just having like a hard workweek.
All that stuff can be done justwith that pass.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (22:45):
Yeah, I think one of the kind of patterns that
you pointed out to me that Ihave seen time and time again is
, you know, when I'm palpatingthe back of somebody's skull,
normally you should have a nicekind of sloping transition from
the occipital bone into the neck, and for people that have
(23:06):
cerebellar diseases, it's likeinstead of this nice little
gradual slope, you just you hita cliff and it's like wait, this
does not feel right, like thisis not normal.
And so it's like I think that'ssomething that really clued me
into like this is important andthis is significant, and then
(23:28):
like to say can we make a changehere?
That's what I love is thatyou're utilizing the timeless
skill of palpation and thenyou're also pairing it with very
high tech things like yourquantitative EEG readings and
your super fancy region pod.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (23:47):
Yeah, I know those are great, amazing, modern
devices that we have at our SHUclinics and we're very
fortunate to have them.
Part of the reason why I gotthem was when I started to work
with you and we would go tothese amazing neural symposium
events, and my favorite placeabout all those kind of events
(24:09):
are the vendors.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (24:12):
The toy room.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (24:15):
Like you know where's Dr Shu?
He's like probably in some kindof laser device getting zapped
right now or something.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (24:22):
Well, talk a little bit, cause I know you
just changed your QEEG from oneservice to another, so you've
got a new QEEG and tell me alittle bit about, maybe, some of
the patterns in brainwaveactivity that you see with
people who have persistentpost-concussion symptoms, and
(24:42):
kind of how you're utilizingthat as a before and after means
to track people's progress withtheir brain healing.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (24:52):
Sure people's progress with their brain
healing.
Sure, as I was getting intoskull palpation and observing
different patterns, which I waspretty sure that we were
correctly observing, and then wewould actually come up and
create different acupunctureprotocols to treat those
different inflammation bumpsthat we were feeling.
To make sure that I knew thatwhat I saw was real or what I
(25:16):
thought was significant was likenot deceiving myself.
That's why I got into gettingmodern equipment and things like
the QEEG, the quantitativeelectroencephalogram brain scan,
or or things that would kind ofquantify what I was doing, you
know.
So the one reason why we wantedto get a QEEG that was one of
(25:39):
the first real significantmodern pieces of equipment that
we got for the office way in thebeginning was because if our
points that we were using wereactually working and improving
the person's cognitive functions, then we should be able to see
a change in a brainwave scanright, because it's objective?
(26:03):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's liveand the machines that are
created today are sosophisticated, created today are
so sophisticated.
Um, the the one we used, uh,that we first got.
Uh, you could put the device onand see a live image of the
(26:24):
brain as it's firing on thescreen, you know.
And we could put points in likespleen six, pc six, and see the
brain lighting up differently.
You know, awesome, yeah, and sothat's so.
Every time we we got some, somenice modern equipment to debunk
ourselves, we kind of insteadjustified no, that's the right
(26:48):
point, meaning if you put thispoint in, you're going to have a
higher probability of affectingthe brain than you could even
realize.
I love using modern equipment,actually to confirm Chinese
medicine to almost one, likeconfirm it and two, further
explore it, you know, using ourtools.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (27:08):
So yeah, I think there's a whole untapped world
of research that should belooking at QEEG and
acupuncture's effects onbrainwave activity and you know
that modulating what's happeningin different parts of the brain
, like you said, even based ondifferent points, have that
concept of like acupuncturepoint specificity One point is
(27:30):
not doing the exact same thingas another point.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (27:33):
Yeah, exactly, and if you have the time and
the equipment and the rightpatients, you can definitely
flush that out.
It's great.
So we got a.
Recently we acquired a new QEEGmachine.
It's called a Wabi W-A-V-I andthat's specifically a QEEG
machine that's focused onconcussions and for concussion
(27:56):
patients, and I like it becauseit's very objective.
When you scan anyone with a QEEGhelmet or headset, there's
usually at least 19 electrodeswhich are dispersed around the
helmet to cover the head and thedifferent lobes, and not only
(28:16):
do they measure the electricityor voltage that that area of
your brain is outputting, butthey also can observe how one
hub talks to another of theother 19.
And you can see thoserelationships.
Those are called coherences, soyou can see the coherent
relationships of the electrodesor or the lack of coherence.
(28:40):
The interesting thing with theWavi is that it gives you this
more patient like almost like aCBC blood result like.
It gives you a nice itemizedlist of different data it's
collected and part of it is alsothe total absolute number of
voltage that your brain cangenerate during the test and it
(29:03):
rates it for you.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (29:05):
So what I like about that is let's say so it
tells you if your brainbattery's low.
Right, exactly, yeah, exactlyit's like hey, your brain is in
the yellow zone.
You only have two bars left.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (29:16):
Yeah, plug it in and hit the recharge.
And that's great, because a lotof our patients, especially if
they're very driven and whetherit's in business or sports or
their profession, they don'tthink they're tired.
They may not let themselvestake a break, but if you get an
(29:38):
objective test like this, youknow that validates what we're
recommending and that it shouldkind of help the patient come to
terms of.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (29:48):
Okay, I am giving myself adrenal fatigue, my body
is in fight or flight and yet Imaybe now should listen, you
know so when I think to with thepatients who who do know that
after their concussion they theyexperience that, you know,
cognitive fatigue and that lackof cognitive reserve where they
(30:09):
used to be able to have reallygreat focus and attention for
eight hours a day and now it'slike after two hours their brain
just does not want to workanymore.
I imagine that you're seeingthat as well on this type of
test.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (30:23):
Yeah, exactly, and interestingly enough, it
has, like you'll have to put aset of headphones on and it'll
have like a test where it'llplay a sound and you have to hit
a button and it'll test yourreaction time too, which is
really cool, yeah, and itmeasures not only your reaction
time but which part of your mindwas activated too.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (30:46):
So are you using the right parts of your brain to
do the cognitive task Exactly,very cool.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (30:52):
So that's why we like for concussion, all our
concussion patients.
We we would recommend it if wefelt like it's necessary, and
also for patients that we findthat they just plateaued and
we're not sure.
So we would use a QEG type scanto give us direction too.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (31:12):
And then you also have a region pod, which is a
light therapy bed that you canlay in, and it is incredibly
powerful.
I mean, it's not like you.
It's not the same kind of bedthat you go to at the tanning
salon that has red light therapy.
It's, it's next, it's next,it's next level yeah, it's not.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (31:33):
It's better than the one at planet fitness.
Okay, when you have the blackmembership and I'm not dissing
planet, I have a planet fitnessmembership too, because there's
one near my mom's house and whenI have to visit her and I need
a break and I need exercise, I'mlike I'm gonna go to the planet
fitness.
Yes, we have a.
We have what's called the regenpod, which is one of the, I
(31:56):
would say, the mostsophisticated, well thought out,
low level laser light bedsthat's in the market.
And, um, I had the fortunateopportunity to meet the creators
and the engineers that designedit designed it because they're
based out of Colorado throughsome close colleagues of ours.
(32:16):
We wanted to use it to helptreat patients who we felt
systemically had neural issuesand needed more energy, more ATP
, more nourishment through thered light to treat their nervous
system and their bodies.
So so, not just the strokepatients, but patients with
(32:41):
Parkinson's, als and even theweekend warriors they, they love
it too because they'll they'llwear out their knees skiing or
playing now like pickleball,which is the new Taibo, you know
like ankle injuries and stuff,and it's amazing at just like
inflammation recovery, um, soany kind of inflammation.
(33:04):
There the region pod helps totreat it.
But the coolest thing about theregion pod is that it actually
takes in.
The computer software takesinto account your skin tone,
your shape, your size.
If you're an ectomorphmesomorph, to be honest, it is a
lot like working out like youwant to do it on a routine or
(33:25):
you're doing it whether it'sweekly or twice a week.
What?
What is low level laser?
Like Basically any red lighttherapy, or what we call today
photobiomodulation.
It's when you have wavelengthsof light that's in the 630 to
880.
And those are the therapeuticwavelengths that a lot of
(33:48):
research and science has beenperforming and finding
incredible results.
So red wavelength can actuallypenetrate past the flesh into
the muscle tissue, get to thenerves.
And what sunlight is to plantsright, that creates chlorophyll,
which is their energy, redlights is to animals, to humans,
(34:10):
so so that red light actuallywill make it to the mitochondria
, which are the batteries of ourbody, and from the batteries,
when it receives the red light,it'll create more ATP, which is
the building blocks of energy inour body.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (34:27):
I when I laid in the Regenpod.
I didn't want to get out, itfelt really good.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (34:31):
Yeah, especially right now in the
wintertime, it feels even better.
It's just like I remember youwere like Ayla's not getting out
of the room.
I think she's doing a doublesession and you know.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (34:44):
Well, yeah, the Regen pod read my mind and said,
oh she, she needs, she needs along time with me, right?
Well, and mitochondria, I think, are kind of like the forefront
of the next wave of scientificresearch, because so many people
, after getting COVID anddeveloping long COVID, are
(35:05):
having mitochondrial disordersand a lot of fatigue physically
and cognitively and a lot of theresearch now on Alzheimer's is
pointing to the effects onmitochondria and so we're
recognizing now the importanceof the role of mitochondria in
the brain.
Yeah, and how you know, whenpeople have had concussions and
repetitive concussions and headinjuries and then these other
(35:29):
neurological disorders andneurodegenerative diseases, that
the mitochondria are playing abig role in a lot of the
pathology, underlying a lot ofit and driving a lot of it.
So I think that you know therole of the mitochondria is kind
of the unifying theory for alot of symptoms that people are
(35:50):
experiencing and that's reallygoing to be what we hear the
most about in the next probablydecade of neuroscience research.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (35:59):
Yeah, definitely.
Well, you use a special matright that you've introduced to
me too, that you've got somehigh tech technology in your
wheelhouse too, Dr Wolf, You'vegot some high-tech technology in
your wheelhouse too, Dr Wolf?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (36:14):
Yeah, the mat is a PEMF device, so a pulsed
electromagnetic frequency device, and where I see that really
excelling is in restoringhealthy vasomotion to the
cardiovascular system, to allthe arteries.
And so when we think about thecirculatory system, I think a
lot of people make theassumption that the heart is
(36:36):
beating and it's the heartbeating that's driving blood
flow everywhere.
But the heart isn't powerfulenough to pump blood to every
single little capillary, and sothe way that the blood is
actually reaching all of theseextremities and also in the
brain is through vasomotion.
(36:56):
And when we lose vasomotionbecause of trauma, that can
really impact circulation.
And so there's, I think, a lotmore research now too on the
importance of healthy vasomotion.
And when people get concussionsor brain injuries and they
develop exercise intolerance andthey can't exercise well, then
(37:19):
they're not moving, and thenthat over time can also lead to
a further decompensation of thecardiovascular system and
potentially make dysautonomiasymptoms worse as a result of
that ongoing loss of healthyvasomotion because of the lack
of mobility.
So there's a lot to it, but Ido think that exercise and if
(37:42):
you can't exercise, usingsomething like a PEMF device to
help restore healthy vasomotionis important and something that
I think a lot more research isgoing to be focused on again,
and I think the next 10 years ofneuroscience research is going
to be exciting.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (38:00):
Yeah, definitely I think so too,
because just seeing like aperson's brain awaken which in
where I lived and was trainingin China, we would call that
awakening the Shen right, orfreeing the Shen that's been
(38:20):
buried we can say and oftentimesI've heard neurologists say
that that part of the nervoussystem was asleep and that now
it's waking up and it's.
It's a beautiful thing thatwhen we met and maybe I was
coining that because that's whatI learned in tanjin, but it
made perfect sense to you rightwith, yeah, your background.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (38:44):
So well, and so you were teaching a very
specific kind of technique forwaking, waking up the shin and
unburying the consciousness, asyou might like to call it.
And so when I startedimplementing that specific
technique that you were teaching, a lot of times like if I had a
(39:06):
patient come to me who had hada concussion and it was the very
first time I was treating themA lot of times my examination is
so lengthy that it's veryfatiguing to people, and so not
only did I just do a very longexam, but the last thing I want
to do is overstimulate them ordo too much in my therapy, and
(39:27):
so I would often do this verygentle, simple technique and
protocol that you taught, andthen I would watch the patient
change in front of my eyes, andthey would go from not
volunteering information, notwanting to talk very much, not
really making eye contact, youknow, looking very kind of
(39:50):
sleepy or just not reallypresent, and then, after the
treatment, all of a sudden theywould smile for the very first
time, they would startvolunteering information, or
even telling a bit of a story,or they would laugh, or it's
like I was, it felt like I wasengaging yeah.
I felt like I would engage withlike a completely different
(40:11):
person after just one treatmentand it really was just such a
phenomenal thing that washappening over and over and over
again.
And so, like you know what youteach, I think you you made a
really good point once where youyou know you're learning
something, but then you'reseeing like a hundred people a
(40:31):
week and so you're seeingthousands and thousands and
thousands of patients and you'redoing these techniques on so
many people that you know whatworks and what doesn't work,
because you've got the volume tobe able to gauge that.
And so it's not just like, oh,I did this one thing this one
time and got a good outcome.
(40:52):
It's like, no, I've been doingthis thing thousands of times.
And it's repeatable.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (40:58):
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's true, we, our office,probably does over, probably
over four or 5000 sessions ayear.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (41:06):
Well, we've covered a lot of ground here.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast sharing your
insights, and I know you have aproject that you've been working
on to bring Tai Chi to themasses.
So why don't we end with you aletting people know where they
can find you and your socials,your clinic, your website, and
(41:30):
then also tell us a little aboutyour Tai Chi project?
Dr. Clayton Shiu (41:34):
Yeah, thanks.
So the other thing thathappened over the last 20, 25
years is a lot of my patientsthey always want to learn Tai
Chi and a long time ago I didused to have a Tai Chi school in
New York City so, but myprivate practice was a lot less
busy then.
So right now we're in twodifferent offices and managing
(41:59):
staff, so it's been harder toteach tai chi and it really was
my first love, even beforeChinese medicine.
I followed a tai chi masteraround the world for almost like
20 years and had the fortunateexperience to travel with him to
Greece, australia, asia, and itwas great.
(42:21):
It was very like I would takecarefree days and just being a
student and having that longtime and quality time to to have
a clear mind and practice.
And so I want to.
I wanted to make something, um,that I could give to not just my
(42:45):
patients and students but toanyone who just wants to delve
into it, and so I'm going to bemaking like a teaching course of
Tai Chi lessons.
It'll come out something likefour episodes at a time and
it'll be like one posture thatwill clearly teach how I was
taught posture and I'll give mypersonal perspectives on the
(43:10):
posture too, and I'll give mypersonal perspectives on the
posture too, as well as sharethe gems of where you focus,
things like your, your Shen andyour Yi, which is like the
spirit of where you focus withyour eyes versus where you're
thinking.
And then, after we practice theposture, I'm going to end each
(43:31):
class with a little bit of a TaiChi lesson to think about for
that week.
You know, and a lot of theselessons actually come from just
great sessions that I've hadwith patients that I thought,
wow, you know, I think we reallyhit something really important
that helped me that week too,and I think it's great to
(43:52):
include that into the, into theTai Chi lessons.
So that way, I feel like forthe modern Tai Chi practitioner,
if you want to be introduced toTai Chi, this is a great way to
meditate, to relax, to focus onthe concepts and then to get
like some gems of knowledge thatI've learned from my private
practice and from practicing TaiChi.
(44:14):
So it'll be like an ongoingkind of thing.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (44:18):
So excellent.
Well, I think that's going tobe a great resource.
And you know, when I waslearning vestibular
rehabilitation, and we talkabout distinguishing between an
eye movement and a head movement, and you know this idea of like
I'm going to move my body in away where my eyes are not moving
in their orbit but they'remaintaining gaze on something,
(44:41):
versus I'm going to keep my headstationary, like Tai Chi is all
of those things.
It's, you know it's.
You're basically remapping yourbody, you're learning how to
move through space.
You are, you know, practicingdifferent movements that involve
(45:02):
your eyes.
You know, staying still, orversus your eyes moving one way
and your hand is moving anotherway, Like there's just there's
so many things to the Tai Chimovements that are are really a
way of doing vestibularrehabilitation without calling
it vestibular rehabilitation.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (45:22):
Exactly, and it's it's because it's so
specific, right?
So it's one of those few.
In a way.
Somehow they designed a verycontrolled environment type of
moving meditation and when youkeep it up for 15 minutes or 20
minutes, it is like a standingcore workout, because you're
(45:43):
holding your hips and your waistin a certain place, then you're
just moving specific body partsand stuff.
So, and that's a great way to,that's a great way to interpret
it as vestibular, ocular, motortraining and and resetting, and
that's why you move so slowly.
You're giving the brain achance to readjust everything
(46:04):
back to normal, like controlspots, instead of being at this
high, high over beta, like youknow.
Yeah, you can see.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (46:14):
Absolutely, and those slow, deliberate movements
are very powerful.
I mean, I had somebody come inmy office the other day and said
she said, you know, I woke upand I felt like my body was
rocking and that was one of theinitial symptoms that she had
had after her concussion.
And it had gone away and thenfor some reason it came back
(46:35):
this one morning and so I did alittle bit of testing with her
and then all I did was turn herhead in slow motion to the right
and back to center twice andthen the rocking was gone.
And she was like what on earthdid you just do?
And I said this is we just dida very gentle kind of
(46:57):
recalibration of your system.
That's all it took to make thatrocking go away.
But like that's what tai chi is, it's this very gentle, slow
motion recalibration of thesystem in and, like you said, a
very controlled, safe, peaceful,relaxing environment.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (47:14):
Yeah, exactly, and they're even finding that
it can help moderate medicationslike levodopa.
They've done studies now wherethey had two group of
Parkinson's patients and thegroup that didn't practice Tai
Chi had to increase in dosage,while the group that did
(47:35):
practice actually didn'tincrease dosage.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (47:38):
Interesting.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (47:38):
Yeah, so it was very clear about that.
So.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (47:43):
So why don't you let people know where they can
find you?
Yeah.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (47:46):
So, um, you can find me at the Shiu clinic S
H I U clinic.
com, for my private practices inManhattan and East Hampton and
for any workshops that I teachand also co-treat with Dr Wolf.
Uh, it would be at nanopunctureseminars.
com.
Um, my Instagram is, uh, Jadeshaman I guess that's my, my
(48:11):
superhero name we joke about.
So I usually post a lot ofthings I'm up to or what I'm
working on there, and then I'llannounce later.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (48:19):
That's your alter ego.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (48:21):
Yeah, that's my alter ego.
And then I'll probably have anew website for the Tai Chi
lessons and stuff that peoplecan take for wellness.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (48:31):
Okay, love it, excellent.
Well, thank you so much foryour time and I'm sure we will
do this again.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (48:38):
Yeah, thank you for having me and good luck
to the podcast and everything.
It's awesome, thank you.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (48:46):
Medical disclaimer.
This video or podcast is forgeneral informational purposes
only and does not constitute thepractice of medicine or other
professional health careservices.
Including the giving of medicaladvice is at the user's own
(49:12):
risk.
The content of this video orpodcast is not intended to be a
substitute for medical advice,diagnosis or treatment, and
consumers of this informationshould seek the advice of a
medical professional for any andall health related issues.
A link to our full medicaldisclaimer is available in the
notes.
In this episode, I interview my dear friend and
colleague, Dr Clayton Shiu.
Dr Shiu has a PhD from theTianjin University of
Traditional Chinese Medicine anddid his residency at the
Distinguished First TeachingHospital of Tianjin.
He specializes in braininjuries, stroke and
neurological disorders in hisclinics located in Manhattan and
(00:21):
the East Hamptons.
In our conversation, we discusshis integration of ancient
therapies with moderntechnologies such as
quantitative EEG in order totrack patients' progress and
healing.
Thanks so much for listeningand enjoy the episode.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (00:39):
Because just seeing, like a person's brain
awaken which in where I livedand was training in China, we
would call that awakening theShen right, or freeing the Shen
that's been buried we can sayand oftentimes I've heard
neurologists say that that partof the nervous system was asleep
(01:03):
and that now it's waking up.
And it's a beautiful thing thatwhen we met and maybe I was
coining that because that's whatI learned in Tianjin, but it
made perfect sense to you, right.
Welcome to the Life After Impactpodcast, where we do a deep
(01:23):
dive into all things concussionand brain injury related.
We talk about all the differentsymptoms that can follow a
brain injury, different testingmethods, different types of
specialists out there anddifferent therapies available.
I'm Sophia Bowens, I'm herewith Dr Ayla Wolf and we will be
your guide to living your bestlife after impact.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (01:51):
All right, welcome to Life After Impact the
concussion recovery podcast,and today I am interviewing Dr
Clayton Shiu, who is a licensedacupuncturist practicing in
Manhattan and East Hamptons, andDr Shiu and I met back in 2016
or 17 at a neuroscienceconference and found we had a
(02:14):
lot in common and teamed up andhave been teaching different
continuing education courses,and Dr Shiu has a amazing
specialty in brain injuries,involving both stroke as well as
traumatic brain injuries andconcussions.
He gets referrals from manydoctors and clinics all over New
York City, and so I'm veryexcited to welcome you to the
(02:37):
podcast and have you share moreabout your expertise and a lot
of the unique techniques andtechnology that you are
implementing in your clinic.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (02:48):
Thank you, Dr Wolf.
Can I call you Ayla you?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (02:52):
can call me Ayla.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (02:53):
yes, yeah, thank you for having me on the
show.
Congratulations, first off onlaunching your podcast and it's
amazing like just out of thegate growth.
I'm really proud of you and allyour accomplishments.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (03:08):
Oh, thank you.
get to be your wingman atsome of these events and special
accomplishments that you, youjust keep doing and stuff.
So well it's it's been wonderful being a guest
doctor at your clinic andgetting a chance to work side by
side you and your clinics bothyour clinics.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (03:30):
Yeah, thank you, and that's where it's a
blessing to have you come andshare your expertise.
We really have patients askingfor you or you know, like always
like inquiring about whenyou're going to return, so it's
been a great collaboration there, so.
But yeah, so I'm happy to be onyour new podcast and even like
(03:54):
seeing that you're going to meet.
Your new book is going to becoming out soon too, Is that
correct?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (03:58):
It is.
I had a great meeting with mypublisher just last week and
they have a lot on their end todo, and then I will be kind of
going through another round ofediting, but it shouldn't take
quite as long.
So we are getting close to thefinish line.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (04:12):
I think that your book will be a great
contribution and providing a lotof light into a very gray and,
you know, mysterious path thateveryone starts out on from a
traumatic brain injury.
So bravo to you there.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (04:28):
Thank you so much .
I do hope that the bookaccomplishes those tasks.
That's definitely the goal ofit is to try to cut through a
lot of the confusion on whatpeople do or don't need and what
kind of tests are out there.
And you know, giving peoplebecause you don't know what you
don't need and what kind oftests are out there, and giving
people because you don't knowwhat you don't know.
And so some people, if theydon't even recognize that they
(04:50):
haven't been properly assessed,then they don't even realize
that there are tests that areout there that haven't been done
yet and that there might beinsights that still need to be
gleamed from specific exams.
And so that's what I'm tryingto highlight is to make sure
people can read that book andsay have have I had all the
right testing done, or is theremore research that needs to
(05:12):
happen to figure out what'sdriving my symptoms that aren't
getting better on their own?
So exactly.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (05:17):
I mean, this is a funny example, but I had a
patient who was probably intheir late 50s, early 60s and
maybe definitely had someosteoarthritis or arthritis in
their hips, you know, and hadsome past injuries.
But they were scheduled to havelike a hip replacement, you
know, and they came in and I wastreating them for their hip and
(05:40):
everything their hip andeverything but then I noticed a
couple of times in the process,as we were going into the
pre-treatments, that theydefinitely had some very strange
eye movements, you know, as wewere talking or just sitting
down.
So I ran through the battery oftests that you taught me and I
was like, wait a second.
I think this person has beensuffering from long-term
(06:05):
concussion issues and symptoms.
So when we treated that, hermovement and her gait improved
greatly, significantly, andbasically she didn't need the
hip replacement, that's amazing.
Yeah, it's like, do you knowwhat I mean?
And so it's funny, because youhave to be really sharp and
(06:27):
sensitive to see something sorandom, right?
But then to connect the dotsand say, okay, now let's check
your neck and head and let's goback into, like you know, your
history a little bit more beforeyou get that hip replacement
operation, cause, let's, let'smake sure this is what we're
dealing with, you know?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (06:47):
Right, and I think a lot of people don't put
concussions down on their intakeforms as injuries, as it
doesn't occur to them right thatif they had a concussion five
years ago, 10 years ago, to evenput that on a medical intake
form and then you start askingpeople about their history of
head trauma.
and have you ever fallen off abicycle, been in a car accident,
(07:10):
you know, had a skiing accidentand all of a sudden you you
elicit from somebody a prettylengthy history of potential
head traumas that they hadforgotten about or didn't think
were relevant to why they werecoming in in the first place.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (07:24):
Yeah, exactly and you know, sometimes it's.
It's maybe because the patientmay have a fear that you know
well.
You think there'spsychologically something wrong
with me and we're like, no,we're not even talking about
like you're like we're justsaying, if you're having
subcognitive, you know deficitsthere that we're checking into.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (07:41):
Yeah, I had a fascinating conversation with my
dear friend, Alicia, who's amassage therapist that I work
with, and she was commenting onthe fact that you know, she sees
people you know you oftentimesonce a month.
You know for for years, for youknow general wellness and
maintenance and overall health,and made the comment that it's
(08:03):
really obvious when somebodydevelops a very mild cognitive
decline or cognitive impairment,because she sees how difficult
it is for them to flip over onthe table.
And this is, you know,something that someone's been
doing time and time again.
And it's like the procedure isyou flip over and then you move
(08:25):
down about a foot so that yourhead's not hanging off the table
.
And this is something that thisperson has been doing time and
time again.
And then all of a sudden oneday she says, okay, time to flip
over, and all of a sudden it'slike this big production and
they're not moving as well andthey don't know where their body
is in space, and all of asudden they they're laying on
the table crooked and they don'tknow where their head is and
it's hanging.
(08:45):
You know it's hanging off thetable and they forget to scoot
down and and.
So, because she spent so muchtime with these people.
Those things are very importantand it's like that.
That art of observation is sohuge and I think you know if you
think about somebody who'sbeing seen for an hour once a
month, every month, that's verydifferent from just having a
(09:08):
quick little 15-minute annualappointment with your doctor as
your annual wellness checkup orwhatever.
If they spend 15 minutes withyou and they don't even see you
moving around, they're going tomiss those things.
You can't pick that up in a15-minute appointment.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (09:30):
Yeah, exactly, you won't pick that up just
from watching someone walk backand forth, and it takes so much
coordination and core strengthand then rotation, like you said
.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (09:38):
I mean, it's like that thing where you know they
say that one of the tests forlongevity is can you get up off
the floor without using yourhands, and I think another great
test would to be how well canyou roll over on a treatment
table.
So why don't we start with yourbackground and can you share
with our audience how you kindof got got into working with
(10:02):
strokes and then traumatic braininjuries and concussions, and I
know you spent a good deal oftime in China at a hospital that
specializes in these things andpicked up a lot of techniques
and insights.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (10:15):
Yeah, so originally I was.
I was actually in more of theorthopedic sports medicine field
when I just got out of schoolin the acupuncture profession
this is probably in the early2000s and I was relatively, I
would say, successful in that Iwas already treating some
different, assisting to treatsome different professional
(10:38):
athletes in the major leaguebaseball, the NBA, some mixed
martial artists, and I wouldeven get flown to certain NBA
playoff games with to treat somedifferent players, and that was
fun.
That was really, reallyexciting.
I actually felt pretty solid,pretty good, very, very excited
about that whole field, whichhas grown into an amazing
(11:02):
specialty within our profession.
You know, tuning, like MSK ororthopedic injuries.
But one of the things thatalways caught my attention was
whenever somebody or a patientor a friend or relative, like if
they got a stroke or traumaticbrain injury, and then I always
(11:24):
felt like I was caught flatfooted and whatever things I
would try and never feltcomfortable.
You know, and I really knew inmy own personal wheelhouse,
being supposedly this veryestablished acupuncturist, I
just knew that man, there'sthere's a couple gray missing
pieces there and that reallybothered me and and the more I
(11:44):
looked at it like and I'm I'mvery good at looking at trends
and patterns and stuff.
Um, so I, the more I looked atit, I was like I think it's
getting worse.
Like I think I think strokesback in 2000,.
You know, actually 2011 or 12,at the time when this idea of me
(12:07):
pursuing stroke therapy or thebrain was around then and I was
seeing that it was getting worsebasically you mean that more
strokes were happening, it wasbecoming more frequent.
Yeah, it was like this growingepidemic, and not just stroke.
But you pull the curtain backmore and I saw that, okay,
(12:28):
parkinson's is on the rise,alzheimer's and I was like why
is this happening and why is itso out of control?
And my conclusion is in allthree or four disorders where
you're talking about stroke orParkinson's, alzheimer's or
concussion, you know you'redealing with the same organ,
which is the brain, right, butthe etiology changes.
(12:51):
So I was always tryingdifferent things.
I know there's something,there's a technique or a system
called scalp acupuncture, whichI'm not it's just not in my
wheelhouse or affinity towardswhich I'm not it's just not in
my wheelhouse or affinitytowards and you're referring to.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (13:09):
I mean, I think that system came about in the
1970s, if I'm correct, so it'sbeen around since the 70s, but
it's also kind of based on 1970sneuroscience as well, and we've
learned a whole lot more sincethen.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (13:22):
Exactly, and because I was a neuroanatomy
geek even when I went to BostonUniversity doing my undergrad,
like that was my favorite courseversus even gross anatomy and
other things like so.
So as I was finishing theChinese medicine studies and
stuff and had the neuroanatomy Ilike training in my head from
(13:44):
the 90s.
But then when I did see thescalp acupuncture principles, it
was based on more of like aone-to-one functional
relationship of the body, whichhas its contribution to
neuroscience too.
It's just that as we got intomore and more research and
(14:07):
technology got better atanalyzing nerves, the tissue,
the brain, the brain waves,right, how we even generate like
energy in a nerve or what's thebrain actually feeding on and
all that stuff, we noticed thatlike the brain isn't just one
section of the brain controlsone part of the body.
(14:27):
Each area of the brain is likea hub, kind of like JFK airport
or LAX.
Okay, yeah, so you've got like alot of different tissues
running through thisintersection and you can
manipulate it in many differentways.
You know which circulates usback to doing, like you know,
(14:52):
exercises like figure eights,right the limb, or or even using
um distal points.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (14:59):
it makes distal points make sense, you know
right, and so if you shut downjfk, it doesn't just affect JFK
airport, it affects every singleconnecting flight out of JFK.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (15:10):
Yes, exactly yeah.
And then if you, if you didshut down JFK airport, you would
have, you would see an increaseat LaGuardia airport and Newark
airport, and so they would takeon the flights and fly the
people congested at JFK Airport.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (15:36):
you know well and actually you know you bring up
a good point in that sensebecause there was some
relatively recent researchtalking about how, when you get
a concussion, certain jobs thatthe frontal lobe is supposed to
perform, if the frontal lobe isbasically not working as well
because of the concussion, theparietal lobe tries to take over
(15:59):
some of those functions.
But in doing that, you know,decreased activity in the
frontal lobe and perhaps somehyperactivity and other parts of
the parietal lobe which thenmight also translate into
somebody developing like motionsensitivity is extremely
complicated and you know, goingback to that idea of like the
(16:28):
1970s scalp acupuncture you lookat kind of like doing
acupuncture points over thecerebellum, you know they were
talking about it for, say, youknow, issues with ataxia or gait
problems.
But now we know the cerebellumalso plays a huge role in
coordinating our thoughts aswell, and there's this huge
(16:49):
cognitive component to thecerebellum.
And so, yeah, I think thebeauty of what you do now is
that you you're appreciating themodern day understanding of how
the brain works and how it'sall these different hubs that
are all integrated, and then youcan start to play around with
okay, well, what happens when weincrease activity over here?
(17:09):
Do we see positive downstreamconsequences over there?
And I think that's whereacupuncture is huge and I also.
One of the things that I thinkis really unique to you is your
power of observation of theactual human body and your
ability to actually see patternsin the human body.
(17:32):
And in your courses you talkabout you know the shape of the
neck being very significant andthe shape of the skull being
significant, and even looking atsomebody's back and how their
scapulas are positioned and howmuch you know kind of
inflammation you're seeingbetween the shoulder blades, and
so what I really appreciateabout what you teach is that
(17:55):
your power of observation is notjust even in neurological exams
, it's also in palpation skillsand in just physically looking
at a person's neck and sayingthis there's something wrong
here in terms of like wherethey're holding tension or where
this is sunken in, or, and Ithink that that's like really
(18:15):
beautiful, and I see that askind of this real specialty of
yours that you've you'vedeveloped like on your own, like
that's, that's yours.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (18:26):
Oh, thank you.
That's extremely kind,especially coming from you,
cause I respect everythingyou've taught me too and I think
, yeah, I my my approach in lifeis is not to discard things
that works, even if it becomeslike a little bit obsolete in
the current modern times.
(18:47):
It has its place when thesituation is right, you know so,
meaning like like the Walkmandidn't stop being made because
it couldn't play music.
You know?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (18:58):
So are you saying that, even though we have all
of these incredibly modern formsof technology, which you also
utilize in your clinic, yourecognize the power and the
significance of basic humanobservation, of simply looking
at somebody and saying I'mseeing a pattern here with all
(19:19):
of my patients that come in withX, y and Z, and that pattern in
their skull or their neck ortheir back is significant and
important and should be paidattention to?
Dr. Clayton Shiu (19:32):
Yes, exactly.
So meaning like oh yeah, it'slike.
This is where I was going withthis analogy.
Sorry, I get out.
You know me, I can get.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (19:41):
I'm trying to circle you back.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (19:43):
Yeah.
So let's say, we have like asuper advanced patient imaging
machine, you know like anultrasound or or like sonogram
device or something right?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (19:54):
Or a seven Tesla MRI.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (19:57):
Right, or a seven Tesla MRI and then and it
works great and it gives usthese images right, but what
happens later is like sometimes,that doctor or specialist, they
kind of stop touching thepatient, they stop using their
senses and their hands because Igot this mega million dollar
(20:17):
machine that can, that can tellme everything in the inside
seven inches inside the body,when I should have picked up
something right on the surface.
That would have saved a lot oftests and got us right there.
You, you know immediately.
So.
So that's what I mean by likethat, that palpation or
observation still hassignificance.
(20:39):
And yeah, I think what I'vedone to circle us back to your,
your observation of me is I'vecategorized the normal shapes of
things like the neck, thescapulas, the tone of the
trapezius, the shape of theskull and also the degree of
(21:00):
palpation, what I'm feeling as Ipush gently onto like different
surfaces.
Much in the same way we uselike pulse diagnosis which, as
we know, with just three fingerstouching one section of the
wrist, there's 24 plus qualities, right?
So you can imagine then, if youtake your three fingers on each
(21:21):
side and push it through andfollow the path of the skull
back to, like the occipitalridge right, like how many
different qualities of thingsyou could possibly notice with
during the session when you'rediagnosing or assessing, like a
mysterious brain disorder ortraumatic brain injury case.
(21:43):
And what I did was I don't knowif it was instinct, but even
when I was just doing sportsmedicine and regular wellness
acupuncture, I would just writeit, write down what I was
observing on post-its.
You know, so I and been doingthat for since my first year of
acupuncture practice.
So I was just, I would justnotice like man, I'm drawing the
(22:05):
same picture on this post-itand I keep observing the same
bumps that would come up, maybebehind the ear, so, for instance
, like when we palpate, evenbehind the helix of the ear.
In my practice there's like 10things you could observe and it
can tell you the quality of theperson's hearing, it could
(22:29):
explain to you if they're havingtinnitus, if they have a
toothache, if they have blurryvision, if they, you know, are
just having like a hard workweek.
All that stuff can be done justwith that pass.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (22:45):
Yeah, I think one of the kind of patterns that
you pointed out to me that Ihave seen time and time again is
, you know, when I'm palpatingthe back of somebody's skull,
normally you should have a nicekind of sloping transition from
the occipital bone into the neck, and for people that have
(23:06):
cerebellar diseases, it's likeinstead of this nice little
gradual slope, you just you hita cliff and it's like wait, this
does not feel right, like thisis not normal.
And so it's like I think that'ssomething that really clued me
into like this is important andthis is significant, and then
(23:28):
like to say can we make a changehere?
That's what I love is thatyou're utilizing the timeless
skill of palpation and thenyou're also pairing it with very
high tech things like yourquantitative EEG readings and
your super fancy region pod.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (23:47):
Yeah, I know those are great, amazing, modern
devices that we have at our SHUclinics and we're very
fortunate to have them.
Part of the reason why I gotthem was when I started to work
with you and we would go tothese amazing neural symposium
events, and my favorite placeabout all those kind of events
(24:09):
are the vendors.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (24:12):
The toy room.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (24:15):
Like you know where's Dr Shu?
He's like probably in some kindof laser device getting zapped
right now or something.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (24:22):
Well, talk a little bit, cause I know you
just changed your QEEG from oneservice to another, so you've
got a new QEEG and tell me alittle bit about, maybe, some of
the patterns in brainwaveactivity that you see with
people who have persistentpost-concussion symptoms, and
(24:42):
kind of how you're utilizingthat as a before and after means
to track people's progress withtheir brain healing.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (24:52):
Sure people's progress with their brain
healing.
Sure, as I was getting intoskull palpation and observing
different patterns, which I waspretty sure that we were
correctly observing, and then wewould actually come up and
create different acupunctureprotocols to treat those
different inflammation bumpsthat we were feeling.
To make sure that I knew thatwhat I saw was real or what I
(25:16):
thought was significant was likenot deceiving myself.
That's why I got into gettingmodern equipment and things like
the QEEG, the quantitativeelectroencephalogram brain scan,
or or things that would kind ofquantify what I was doing, you
know.
So the one reason why we wantedto get a QEEG that was one of
(25:39):
the first real significantmodern pieces of equipment that
we got for the office way in thebeginning was because if our
points that we were using wereactually working and improving
the person's cognitive functions, then we should be able to see
a change in a brainwave scanright, because it's objective?
(26:03):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's liveand the machines that are
created today are sosophisticated, created today are
so sophisticated.
Um, the the one we used, uh,that we first got.
Uh, you could put the device onand see a live image of the
(26:24):
brain as it's firing on thescreen, you know.
And we could put points in likespleen six, pc six, and see the
brain lighting up differently.
You know, awesome, yeah, and sothat's so.
Every time we we got some, somenice modern equipment to debunk
ourselves, we kind of insteadjustified no, that's the right
(26:48):
point, meaning if you put thispoint in, you're going to have a
higher probability of affectingthe brain than you could even
realize.
I love using modern equipment,actually to confirm Chinese
medicine to almost one, likeconfirm it and two, further
explore it, you know, using ourtools.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (27:08):
So yeah, I think there's a whole untapped world
of research that should belooking at QEEG and
acupuncture's effects onbrainwave activity and you know
that modulating what's happeningin different parts of the brain
, like you said, even based ondifferent points, have that
concept of like acupuncturepoint specificity One point is
(27:30):
not doing the exact same thingas another point.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (27:33):
Yeah, exactly, and if you have the time and
the equipment and the rightpatients, you can definitely
flush that out.
It's great.
So we got a.
Recently we acquired a new QEEGmachine.
It's called a Wabi W-A-V-I andthat's specifically a QEEG
machine that's focused onconcussions and for concussion
(27:56):
patients, and I like it becauseit's very objective.
When you scan anyone with a QEEGhelmet or headset, there's
usually at least 19 electrodeswhich are dispersed around the
helmet to cover the head and thedifferent lobes, and not only
(28:16):
do they measure the electricityor voltage that that area of
your brain is outputting, butthey also can observe how one
hub talks to another of theother 19.
And you can see thoserelationships.
Those are called coherences, soyou can see the coherent
relationships of the electrodesor or the lack of coherence.
(28:40):
The interesting thing with theWavi is that it gives you this
more patient like almost like aCBC blood result like.
It gives you a nice itemizedlist of different data it's
collected and part of it is alsothe total absolute number of
voltage that your brain cangenerate during the test and it
(29:03):
rates it for you.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (29:05):
So what I like about that is let's say so it
tells you if your brainbattery's low.
Right, exactly, yeah, exactlyit's like hey, your brain is in
the yellow zone.
You only have two bars left.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (29:16):
Yeah, plug it in and hit the recharge.
And that's great, because a lotof our patients, especially if
they're very driven and whetherit's in business or sports or
their profession, they don'tthink they're tired.
They may not let themselvestake a break, but if you get an
(29:38):
objective test like this, youknow that validates what we're
recommending and that it shouldkind of help the patient come to
terms of.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (29:48):
Okay, I am giving myself adrenal fatigue, my body
is in fight or flight and yet Imaybe now should listen, you
know so when I think to with thepatients who who do know that
after their concussion they theyexperience that, you know,
cognitive fatigue and that lackof cognitive reserve where they
(30:09):
used to be able to have reallygreat focus and attention for
eight hours a day and now it'slike after two hours their brain
just does not want to workanymore.
I imagine that you're seeingthat as well on this type of
test.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (30:23):
Yeah, exactly, and interestingly enough, it
has, like you'll have to put aset of headphones on and it'll
have like a test where it'llplay a sound and you have to hit
a button and it'll test yourreaction time too, which is
really cool, yeah, and itmeasures not only your reaction
time but which part of your mindwas activated too.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (30:46):
So are you using the right parts of your brain to
do the cognitive task Exactly,very cool.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (30:52):
So that's why we like for concussion, all our
concussion patients.
We we would recommend it if wefelt like it's necessary, and
also for patients that we findthat they just plateaued and
we're not sure.
So we would use a QEG type scanto give us direction too.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (31:12):
And then you also have a region pod, which is a
light therapy bed that you canlay in, and it is incredibly
powerful.
I mean, it's not like you.
It's not the same kind of bedthat you go to at the tanning
salon that has red light therapy.
It's, it's next, it's next,it's next level yeah, it's not.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (31:33):
It's better than the one at planet fitness.
Okay, when you have the blackmembership and I'm not dissing
planet, I have a planet fitnessmembership too, because there's
one near my mom's house and whenI have to visit her and I need
a break and I need exercise, I'mlike I'm gonna go to the planet
fitness.
Yes, we have a.
We have what's called the regenpod, which is one of the, I
(31:56):
would say, the mostsophisticated, well thought out,
low level laser light bedsthat's in the market.
And, um, I had the fortunateopportunity to meet the creators
and the engineers that designedit designed it because they're
based out of Colorado throughsome close colleagues of ours.
(32:16):
We wanted to use it to helptreat patients who we felt
systemically had neural issuesand needed more energy, more ATP
, more nourishment through thered light to treat their nervous
system and their bodies.
So so, not just the strokepatients, but patients with
(32:41):
Parkinson's, als and even theweekend warriors they, they love
it too because they'll they'llwear out their knees skiing or
playing now like pickleball,which is the new Taibo, you know
like ankle injuries and stuff,and it's amazing at just like
inflammation recovery, um, soany kind of inflammation.
(33:04):
There the region pod helps totreat it.
But the coolest thing about theregion pod is that it actually
takes in.
The computer software takesinto account your skin tone,
your shape, your size.
If you're an ectomorphmesomorph, to be honest, it is a
lot like working out like youwant to do it on a routine or
(33:25):
you're doing it whether it'sweekly or twice a week.
What?
What is low level laser?
Like Basically any red lighttherapy, or what we call today
photobiomodulation.
It's when you have wavelengthsof light that's in the 630 to
880.
And those are the therapeuticwavelengths that a lot of
(33:48):
research and science has beenperforming and finding
incredible results.
So red wavelength can actuallypenetrate past the flesh into
the muscle tissue, get to thenerves.
And what sunlight is to plantsright, that creates chlorophyll,
which is their energy, redlights is to animals, to humans,
(34:10):
so so that red light actuallywill make it to the mitochondria
, which are the batteries of ourbody, and from the batteries,
when it receives the red light,it'll create more ATP, which is
the building blocks of energy inour body.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (34:27):
I when I laid in the Regenpod.
I didn't want to get out, itfelt really good.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (34:31):
Yeah, especially right now in the
wintertime, it feels even better.
It's just like I remember youwere like Ayla's not getting out
of the room.
I think she's doing a doublesession and you know.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (34:44):
Well, yeah, the Regen pod read my mind and said,
oh she, she needs, she needs along time with me, right?
Well, and mitochondria, I think, are kind of like the forefront
of the next wave of scientificresearch, because so many people
, after getting COVID anddeveloping long COVID, are
(35:05):
having mitochondrial disordersand a lot of fatigue physically
and cognitively and a lot of theresearch now on Alzheimer's is
pointing to the effects onmitochondria and so we're
recognizing now the importanceof the role of mitochondria in
the brain.
Yeah, and how you know, whenpeople have had concussions and
repetitive concussions and headinjuries and then these other
(35:29):
neurological disorders andneurodegenerative diseases, that
the mitochondria are playing abig role in a lot of the
pathology, underlying a lot ofit and driving a lot of it.
So I think that you know therole of the mitochondria is kind
of the unifying theory for alot of symptoms that people are
(35:50):
experiencing and that's reallygoing to be what we hear the
most about in the next probablydecade of neuroscience research.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (35:59):
Yeah, definitely.
Well, you use a special matright that you've introduced to
me too, that you've got somehigh tech technology in your
wheelhouse too, Dr Wolf, You'vegot some high-tech technology in
your wheelhouse too, Dr Wolf?
Dr. Ayla Wolf (36:14):
Yeah, the mat is a PEMF device, so a pulsed
electromagnetic frequency device, and where I see that really
excelling is in restoringhealthy vasomotion to the
cardiovascular system, to allthe arteries.
And so when we think about thecirculatory system, I think a
lot of people make theassumption that the heart is
(36:36):
beating and it's the heartbeating that's driving blood
flow everywhere.
But the heart isn't powerfulenough to pump blood to every
single little capillary, and sothe way that the blood is
actually reaching all of theseextremities and also in the
brain is through vasomotion.
(36:56):
And when we lose vasomotionbecause of trauma, that can
really impact circulation.
And so there's, I think, a lotmore research now too on the
importance of healthy vasomotion.
And when people get concussionsor brain injuries and they
develop exercise intolerance andthey can't exercise well, then
(37:19):
they're not moving, and thenthat over time can also lead to
a further decompensation of thecardiovascular system and
potentially make dysautonomiasymptoms worse as a result of
that ongoing loss of healthyvasomotion because of the lack
of mobility.
So there's a lot to it, but Ido think that exercise and if
(37:42):
you can't exercise, usingsomething like a PEMF device to
help restore healthy vasomotionis important and something that
I think a lot more research isgoing to be focused on again,
and I think the next 10 years ofneuroscience research is going
to be exciting.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (38:00):
Yeah, definitely I think so too,
because just seeing like aperson's brain awaken which in
where I lived and was trainingin China, we would call that
awakening the Shen right, orfreeing the Shen that's been
(38:20):
buried we can say and oftentimesI've heard neurologists say
that that part of the nervoussystem was asleep and that now
it's waking up and it's.
It's a beautiful thing thatwhen we met and maybe I was
coining that because that's whatI learned in tanjin, but it
made perfect sense to you rightwith, yeah, your background.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (38:44):
So well, and so you were teaching a very
specific kind of technique forwaking, waking up the shin and
unburying the consciousness, asyou might like to call it.
And so when I startedimplementing that specific
technique that you were teaching, a lot of times like if I had a
(39:06):
patient come to me who had hada concussion and it was the very
first time I was treating themA lot of times my examination is
so lengthy that it's veryfatiguing to people, and so not
only did I just do a very longexam, but the last thing I want
to do is overstimulate them ordo too much in my therapy, and
(39:27):
so I would often do this verygentle, simple technique and
protocol that you taught, andthen I would watch the patient
change in front of my eyes, andthey would go from not
volunteering information, notwanting to talk very much, not
really making eye contact, youknow, looking very kind of
(39:50):
sleepy or just not reallypresent, and then, after the
treatment, all of a sudden theywould smile for the very first
time, they would startvolunteering information, or
even telling a bit of a story,or they would laugh, or it's
like I was, it felt like I wasengaging yeah.
I felt like I would engage withlike a completely different
(40:11):
person after just one treatmentand it really was just such a
phenomenal thing that washappening over and over and over
again.
And so, like you know what youteach, I think you you made a
really good point once where youyou know you're learning
something, but then you'reseeing like a hundred people a
(40:31):
week and so you're seeingthousands and thousands and
thousands of patients and you'redoing these techniques on so
many people that you know whatworks and what doesn't work,
because you've got the volume tobe able to gauge that.
And so it's not just like, oh,I did this one thing this one
time and got a good outcome.
(40:52):
It's like, no, I've been doingthis thing thousands of times.
And it's repeatable.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (40:58):
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's true, we, our office,probably does over, probably
over four or 5000 sessions ayear.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (41:06):
Well, we've covered a lot of ground here.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast sharing your
insights, and I know you have aproject that you've been working
on to bring Tai Chi to themasses.
So why don't we end with you aletting people know where they
can find you and your socials,your clinic, your website, and
(41:30):
then also tell us a little aboutyour Tai Chi project?
Dr. Clayton Shiu (41:34):
Yeah, thanks.
So the other thing thathappened over the last 20, 25
years is a lot of my patientsthey always want to learn Tai
Chi and a long time ago I didused to have a Tai Chi school in
New York City so, but myprivate practice was a lot less
busy then.
So right now we're in twodifferent offices and managing
(41:59):
staff, so it's been harder toteach tai chi and it really was
my first love, even beforeChinese medicine.
I followed a tai chi masteraround the world for almost like
20 years and had the fortunateexperience to travel with him to
Greece, australia, asia, and itwas great.
(42:21):
It was very like I would takecarefree days and just being a
student and having that longtime and quality time to to have
a clear mind and practice.
And so I want to.
I wanted to make something, um,that I could give to not just my
(42:45):
patients and students but toanyone who just wants to delve
into it, and so I'm going to bemaking like a teaching course of
Tai Chi lessons.
It'll come out something likefour episodes at a time and
it'll be like one posture thatwill clearly teach how I was
taught posture and I'll give mypersonal perspectives on the
(43:10):
posture too, and I'll give mypersonal perspectives on the
posture too, as well as sharethe gems of where you focus,
things like your, your Shen andyour Yi, which is like the
spirit of where you focus withyour eyes versus where you're
thinking.
And then, after we practice theposture, I'm going to end each
(43:31):
class with a little bit of a TaiChi lesson to think about for
that week.
You know, and a lot of theselessons actually come from just
great sessions that I've hadwith patients that I thought,
wow, you know, I think we reallyhit something really important
that helped me that week too,and I think it's great to
(43:52):
include that into the, into theTai Chi lessons.
So that way, I feel like forthe modern Tai Chi practitioner,
if you want to be introduced toTai Chi, this is a great way to
meditate, to relax, to focus onthe concepts and then to get
like some gems of knowledge thatI've learned from my private
practice and from practicing TaiChi.
(44:14):
So it'll be like an ongoingkind of thing.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (44:18):
So excellent.
Well, I think that's going tobe a great resource.
And you know, when I waslearning vestibular
rehabilitation, and we talkabout distinguishing between an
eye movement and a head movement, and you know this idea of like
I'm going to move my body in away where my eyes are not moving
in their orbit but they'remaintaining gaze on something,
(44:41):
versus I'm going to keep my headstationary, like Tai Chi is all
of those things.
It's, you know it's.
You're basically remapping yourbody, you're learning how to
move through space.
You are, you know, practicingdifferent movements that involve
(45:02):
your eyes.
You know, staying still, orversus your eyes moving one way
and your hand is moving anotherway, Like there's just there's
so many things to the Tai Chimovements that are are really a
way of doing vestibularrehabilitation without calling
it vestibular rehabilitation.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (45:22):
Exactly, and it's it's because it's so
specific, right?
So it's one of those few.
In a way.
Somehow they designed a verycontrolled environment type of
moving meditation and when youkeep it up for 15 minutes or 20
minutes, it is like a standingcore workout, because you're
(45:43):
holding your hips and your waistin a certain place, then you're
just moving specific body partsand stuff.
So, and that's a great way to,that's a great way to interpret
it as vestibular, ocular, motortraining and and resetting, and
that's why you move so slowly.
You're giving the brain achance to readjust everything
(46:04):
back to normal, like controlspots, instead of being at this
high, high over beta, like youknow.
Yeah, you can see.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (46:14):
Absolutely, and those slow, deliberate movements
are very powerful.
I mean, I had somebody come inmy office the other day and said
she said, you know, I woke upand I felt like my body was
rocking and that was one of theinitial symptoms that she had
had after her concussion.
And it had gone away and thenfor some reason it came back
(46:35):
this one morning and so I did alittle bit of testing with her
and then all I did was turn herhead in slow motion to the right
and back to center twice andthen the rocking was gone.
And she was like what on earthdid you just do?
And I said this is we just dida very gentle kind of
(46:57):
recalibration of your system.
That's all it took to make thatrocking go away.
But like that's what tai chi is, it's this very gentle, slow
motion recalibration of thesystem in and, like you said, a
very controlled, safe, peaceful,relaxing environment.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (47:14):
Yeah, exactly, and they're even finding that
it can help moderate medicationslike levodopa.
They've done studies now wherethey had two group of
Parkinson's patients and thegroup that didn't practice Tai
Chi had to increase in dosage,while the group that did
(47:35):
practice actually didn'tincrease dosage.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (47:38):
Interesting.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (47:38):
Yeah, so it was very clear about that.
So.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (47:43):
So why don't you let people know where they can
find you?
Yeah.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (47:46):
So, um, you can find me at the Shiu clinic S
H I U clinic.
com, for my private practices inManhattan and East Hampton and
for any workshops that I teachand also co-treat with Dr Wolf.
Uh, it would be at nanopunctureseminars.
com.
Um, my Instagram is, uh, Jadeshaman I guess that's my, my
(48:11):
superhero name we joke about.
So I usually post a lot ofthings I'm up to or what I'm
working on there, and then I'llannounce later.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (48:19):
That's your alter ego.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (48:21):
Yeah, that's my alter ego.
And then I'll probably have anew website for the Tai Chi
lessons and stuff that peoplecan take for wellness.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (48:31):
Okay, love it, excellent.
Well, thank you so much foryour time and I'm sure we will
do this again.
Dr. Clayton Shiu (48:38):
Yeah, thank you for having me and good luck
to the podcast and everything.
It's awesome, thank you.
Dr. Ayla Wolf (48:46):
Medical disclaimer.
This video or podcast is forgeneral informational purposes
only and does not constitute thepractice of medicine or other
professional health careservices.
Including the giving of medicaladvice is at the user's own
(49:12):
risk.
The content of this video orpodcast is not intended to be a
substitute for medical advice,diagnosis or treatment, and
consumers of this informationshould seek the advice of a
medical professional for any andall health related issues.
A link to our full medicaldisclaimer is available in the
notes.
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