June 30, 2025 • 55 mins
Chaandani Khan's story begins with a life derailed. Six years ago, a car accident left this high-achieving event planner with a concussion that transformed her world overnight. The woman who once thrived on 70-hour work weeks, constant travel, and a packed social calendar suddenly couldn't make a sandwich or find matching shoes. The cognitive fog was so thick that even basic tasks became mountains to climb.
What unfolds in this raw, vulnerable conversation is a journey through the challenging landscape of persistent post-concussion syndrome (PPCS). Chaandani shares how she navigated years of appointments with multiple practitioners—sometimes five days a week—while grappling with the profound question: "Who am I now that everything that defined me has been stripped away?"
The heartbeat of this episode is the critical gap Chaandani identified during her recovery: many healthcare providers, though well-intentioned, aren't truly "concussion-informed." She describes how practitioners might overwhelm patients with too much information delivered too rapidly, or fail to recognize when patients are "masking" their symptoms while internally struggling. With approximately 30% of concussion cases becoming persistent, this represents thousands of people potentially falling through the cracks.
Today, Chaandani has transformed her experience into a mission. She now educates practitioners on practical strategies to better serve their concussion patients—from slowing speech patterns to controlling environmental factors like lighting and sound. She's developing an online learning community for professionals launching in 2025, aiming to create systemic change that improves outcomes for all PPCS patients.
Connect with Chaandani at www.returntolife.ca and discover how her work is helping bridge the gap between patients and practitioners in the concussion recovery journey.
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Dr. Wolf's book Concussion Breakthrough: Discover the Missing Pieces of Concussion Recovery is now available on Amazon!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey listeners, ayla Wolf here.
I've been talking about my bookfor six months now and I can
finally say it's finished.
You can find my book on Amazon.
It is titled the ConcussionBreakthrough Discover the
Missing Pieces to Recovery.
Just look for the light graycover with a water colored
puzzle piece brain and you'll bein the right spot.
(00:22):
I'll put a link in the shownotes as well.
In this episode of the podcast,I have a very honest and open
conversation with an absolutelywonderful soul, chandani Khan.
I listened to her speak on adifferent podcast and I
immediately looked her upbecause I knew I wanted to talk
to her.
Six years ago, a brain injuryderailed Chandani's entire life,
(00:45):
which left her navigatingpersistent post-concussion
symptoms what she refers to asPPCS in the episode and an
overwhelming amount of loss.
Preparing a cup of tea, washingclothes and sending emails
became monumental challenges,and her familiar fast-paced
lifestyle appeared impossiblyfar out of reach.
(01:07):
Going through years of recoveryappointments and eventually
ingraining herself in theconcussion space allowed her to
identify key gaps and the demandfor a new path forward.
She is now asurvivor-turned-educator for
practitioners who serve theconcussion PPCS population.
(01:28):
She currently teacheseducational workshops and looks
forward to announcing the launchof her Learning Community for
Professionals in 2025.
She aims to lead lasting changein the overall space through
education and innovation, and Ihope you enjoy this conversation
with Chandani as much as I did.
Thanks again for listening tothe show.
(01:50):
If you wouldn't mind taking aminute and leaving us a quick
review that helps listeners likeyou find us a little bit easier
.
Welcome to Life After Impact,the concussion recovery podcast.
I'm Dr Ayla Wolf and I will behosting today's episode where we
help you navigate the oftenconfusing, frustrating and
(02:10):
overwhelming journey ofconcussion and brain injury
recovery.
This podcast is your go-toresource for actionable
information, whether you'redealing with a recent concussion
, struggling withpost-concussion syndrome or just
feeling stuck in your healingprocess.
In each episode, we dive deepinto the symptoms, testing,
treatments and neurologicalinsights that can help you move
(02:33):
forward with clarity andconfidence.
We bring you leading experts inthe world of brain health,
functional neurology andrehabilitation to share their
wisdom and strategies.
So if you're feeling lost,hopeless or like no one
understands what you're goingthrough, know that you are not
alone.
This podcast can be your guideand partner in recovery, helping
(02:54):
you build a better life afterimpact.
Chandani, thank you for comingon to the Life After Impact
podcast, and I'm very muchlooking forward to our
conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Thank you for having me.
I as well am looking forward todiving in with you.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, why don't you start by telling us a little bit
about your story and kind ofwhat your life looked like
before your head injury, andthen what happened after?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Sure so to be able to share the intensity and the
gravity of the situation and theinjury, I'd like to share a
little bit about my old selffirst.
So I used to work in the eventsindustry and, for those who
know, it is chaotic, it isdemanding, it is wild, but it's
also so much fun.
And you know, in that industryI was traveling frequently as
(03:41):
well, as you know, working 50 to70 hours a week at times.
I also had a very busy sociallife.
I had hobbies and sports and Iwas an avid volunteer for many
years, actually since childhood.
So, as you can see, I wasliving a very fulsome life.
And then, you know, one day Iwas in a car accident, which was
(04:01):
actually six years ago, and Ihad neck and back injuries, but
by far the worst was aconcussion brain injury that I
sustained.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Do you, can you, speak a little bit to maybe the
immediate symptoms that you had,as well as kind of, maybe
symptoms that became moreobvious as time went on?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, and that's a really good question.
I appreciate that you'repulling it apart that way
because, you know, initiallyafter the injury, you know I had
a lot of trouble understandingbasic conversation.
I had a lot of trouble, youknow, with word finding.
I felt really just really odd.
I felt like I was in this brainfog, this really sort of
distant space from where Iphysically was.
(04:38):
I was having a hard time withall types of memory Working.
Memory was especiallychallenging for me.
So to be able to, you know, beactive and engaged in someone
speaking to me or any given task, and I had challenges around,
you know, life sensitivity,sound sensitivity and so on and
so forth.
But the interesting thing is, aswe know now with concussions,
is that some symptoms do show upright after the injury, whereas
(04:59):
others kind of evolve in time,whether it's a couple of days or
a couple of weeks, etc.
Now I just just to really addsome color context to this.
I went from living that fulsomelife that I described to all of
a sudden being a person who didnot know how to make a sandwich
anymore.
So it just didn't make sensefor me.
Also, you know other basicskills like I.
It just evaded me, leaving thehouse with two shoes on my feet.
(05:22):
You know I would somehowscramble, try to grab what I
needed.
Leave the house, get outside,look down and I'd see one shoe
and one sock and I like,internally I knew something was
wrong, but I couldn't actuallycognitively figure out what the
problem was.
So I would just cry and cry,and cry and then I would just be
a mess of tears and confusion.
And you know some other examples.
(05:43):
Is I like to show up in a veryvulnerable, raw way, to really
lead by example.
So even you know, being able tofind clean clothes every day,
that was something that wasextraordinarily challenging for
me.
You know, I'd go into my closet, I'd look around, I'd get
distracted, I wasn't sure what Iwas doing, I wasn't focusing, I
wasn't paying attention.
You know what I know now to beprefrontal cortex.
(06:04):
You know skills of whether it'slike analysis or organizing or
planning or thinking.
You know, through complex tasks, I just, it just was too much
for me to be able to think thisis a clean shirt, I should take
off the one that I'm wearing andput it on.
So you know.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, that's gotta be so scary to.
I mean, event planning is likemy worst nightmare because
there's so many moving parts toplanning an event and so for me
maybe with all my concussions,whenever there's an event that
I'm supposed to help plan, it'smy least favorite thing, because
I don't think my brain likes tohave to work in that way.
So for you to be this expertlevel event planner to then not
(06:42):
even being able to understand,like, how to find clean clothes
and put shoes on and make asandwich, I mean that had to
have been so scary.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It was.
It was, it was scary, it wasoverwhelming, you know.
At that time, though, Irealized now that I didn't have
the cognitive wherewithal tohave the luxury of introspecting
and thinking wow, this is scary, it was just.
I was just in the situation, itwas full on, I was overwhelmed,
I was anxious about it, I wascrying for these unknown reasons
(07:11):
.
It just was very different.
And a note on events is that Iabsolutely love logistics.
I've always loved logistics.
I love the chaos.
I still have love in my heartfor the chaos of events.
That's, of course, not what Ido anymore.
It's not, probably, where Iabsolutely excel at the same
level, but I still have thatlove for it, and you can call me
next time you have an eventyou're working with well, I plan
(07:31):
on doing a book launch, so ifyou want to help me plan that,
okay.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So that's so.
You were very symptomatic andpretty immediately after the
injury, and then you also hadthe physical injuries, with the
neck injury.
To tell me a little bit aboutsome of the initial therapies
that you sought out and wherewere you finding the most help,
kind of either, you know rightaway.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So, you know, it's one of those things I kind of
sigh first before answering thisquestion, because what I know
now I wish I knew then.
There isn't necessarily like astandardized process that every
single person with a concussionis put through right.
There is so much variance inthe space.
So when I speak about this itvery much is speaking to my own
(08:16):
experience and for now I'll holdon speaking to the experience
of others.
So for me, in a hyper-specificway, I was initially referred
over to body based treatment.
So you know, chiropractor, aphysiotherapist, rmt, and from
there, you know these, one ofthe professionals that I worked
with at that point in time wasconcussion informed and was able
(08:40):
to identify other areas that Ishould be looking at, you know,
and we added a kinesiologist tothe team and so on and so forth.
In my personal experience I,you know, also had a doctor and
a neurologist and I saw, youknow, holistic care like
acupuncture, and I saw anosteopath who specializes in
cranial treatment and concussion, and you know there were
actually more than this.
(09:00):
There is a bit of a laundrylist.
So I was seeing, you know, awhole collection of
professionals.
Initially I was in appointments, you know, a few times a week,
sometimes up to five days a week, and this lasted for a few
years of my life.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Wow, that's a lot of therapy.
Yes, absolutely.
I.
That really resonates with metoo, in terms of you know, when
any healthcare provider takes aclass on concussions, they
always start the class with onceyou've seen one concussion,
you've seen one concussion.
But the truth also is that onceyou've seen one doctor, you've
(09:37):
seen one doctor, and so thedegree to which that healthcare
provider is informed onconcussions and can step in and
provide the guidance and therecommendations of well let's,
you know, let's look at thisaspect and that aspect and have
have we looked at theneurocognitive testing?
Have we done the rightassessments for the neck
(09:57):
injuries?
Have we, you know, looked intothe mental health side of it?
You know there's, like you said, there's so many places where
somebody can fall through thecracks or not necessarily have
all, all parts of it getaddressed.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Absolutely, and what you're.
You know I love that expressionthat you that you shared.
I haven't heard the other halfof it that you shared as well,
about the practitioner side, butit's very interesting and I
mean that that's the exact thing.
Is that from the patientperspective?
You know different now, if Izoom out a little bit and think
about, you know hundreds ofpeople with PPCS that I've heard
pain points and challenges fromover the years.
You know, it's just it's a verydifferent path forward and, as
(10:36):
you said, there are a lot offactors.
I mean, of course there arepersonal factors that might be
preexisting conditions, might bemental health, but but if we
kind of set those aside and lookat the similarities in terms of
the concussion experience, Imean it would be incredible if
we were able to push to a placewhere there is a standardized
treatment, standardized testing,and then there's specific
treatment that everyone justgoes through.
(10:56):
Right now, patients are verymuch relying on.
Well, the onus does fall on thepatient in terms of concussion
and PPCS recovery.
So, you know, maybe it's on youto think what's wrong with me
during a time when your brain,your cognitive skills, are not
there the way they used to be.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Maybe you know you're researching, but again you're
having trouble being on a laptop, reading the words,
comprehending what you'rereading, also just relying on
(11:39):
being sent to variousprofessionals who you know I say
this very respectfully a lot ofprofessionals can treat, but
not all professionals areconcussion informed, and that
makes a massive difference interms of really being able to
meet the patient where they'reat and serve them in a way that
works and it sets them up forthink.
When you use the term persistentpost-concussion syndrome, you
know that's what my book isreally.
That is who my book is for, andI think that most of the books
out there, the educationalmaterials out there, are kind of
this standard like, oh, you geta concussion and here's what it
(12:02):
looks like, but it's still verymuch that acute stage.
And so once you have somebodywho clearly is not healing in
the kind of expected shortwindow of time and they go on to
have these persistent symptoms,that's where I think people do
end up falling through thecracks more.
And so that was really you know, that was the group of people
(12:24):
that my book was geared towardsis the people who are like okay,
you know I'm now a year out andI'm still symptomatic, so what
do I do next?
And what maybe got missed?
You know, over the last 12months that I still need to
address?
So, I'm curious, you know, canyou talk about where you are now
, six years after, and how areyou doing and are there still
(12:46):
therapies you're pursuing?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I will happily dive right into those questions, but
I just wanted to comment and saythat I am so excited about your
book.
I am thrilled that you havewritten it for that population.
I refer to PPCS persistentpost-concussive symptoms, also
known as PCS, and a few otherterms.
In my experience, in my opinion, in my realm, this is a fairly,
(13:11):
you know, forgotten segment,although current research is
telling us that approximately30% of concussion cases do
become persistent.
Now, that's thousands uponthousands of people who are
sitting in that level ofstuckness and, like you said,
they're a year out, they're fiveyears out, so on and so forth,
and they still have symptoms orjust, you know, various
limitations in their lifebecause of symptoms that may or
(13:31):
may not be aware of.
So I just wanted to pepper thatin and say that I'm so thrilled
that you've created this bookand this incredible resource and
I'm looking forward to readingit.
So now, where was I going?
Next was going to, uh, give alittle check-in of where I'm at
now, six years later.
Yes, okay, so, yeah, so,actually, as of last month um,
(13:52):
it was my six-year anniversaryand you know, in a lot of ways I
have improved a ton,scientifically speaking, a ton.
I've made you know leaps andbounds.
I've back skills.
A lot of this has been veryintentional work, like building
back skills, building updifferent parts of my brain, you
know, really, really pushingforward if that makes sense in
(14:15):
you know, in in a way that worksfor me and my body, in a way
that was guided.
So in this space I mean maybeyou found this as well and in
concussion space, you're oftentaught to when you're answering,
how are you doing?
You're taught to compare backhow are you today versus one
year ago, versus three versusfive, and so if I answer that
way, I'd say I'm doing pretty,pretty amazing.
(14:36):
I will also be honest andcontinue showing up in my
vulnerable way and say thatthere are a few things that are
still not my hundred percentfunctioning, are a few things
that are still not my 100%functioning.
However, when you know I doknow how my brain works right
now, like I'm very well awarehow my brain works, and when I
practice what I preach in termsof showing up in ways that work
for my brain or engaging invarious pacing strategies, I can
(14:57):
be incredibly effective,incredibly limitless.
It's just the times that youknow I do push outside of that,
then I still do find a bit of achallenge.
So you know, I share that againin means of just really saying
hey, I am an expert in the space, I understand where you've been
, I've been there, I can helpyou through and further.
I aim to pave a different pathforward for people with PPCS,
because I don't think it has tobe as hard as it is right now.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, there's a I don't know if he would call
himself a business coach, buthis name is Rory Vaden, and he
always likes to say that you arein the position to help the
person that you once were, andso I think you know that's where
I think you and I have a lot ofsimilarities is like we've both
been, had this lived experience, and now we're in a place where
(15:43):
we're trying to createresources for people.
The book that I wrote was verymuch a book that I would have
loved to have read back in 2012.
You know, when I was, when Ihad a number of concussions
close together and that wasreally kind of the height of my
you know, experience with a lotof post-concussion syndrome was
2012 to 2014 for sure, and so,yeah, I mean I really like I
(16:08):
wrote that book, for you knowthe person I was back then.
You know I would have loved tohave had this book when I was
going through it back then, andI think that it sounds like what
you're doing right now in termsof creating these programs and
these resources for healthcareproviders is to say, man, if I
had had an experience where Icould go to somebody who truly
(16:29):
understood this in a really deepway.
That would have been really,really helpful.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Absolutely, and that's absolutely.
I understand where you'recoming from, saying that you
wrote this book thinking of you.
Know you back then needing thistype of resource First?
My first thought that comes tomy mind is that that is one
thing that is just missing inthe concussion recovery space is
that there isn't just onesingle resource.
There isn't one you know,one-stop shop where people can
be like I have an injury, I'mgoing here.
(16:58):
Every single thing will belooked at.
Now I want to be careful andsay that you know, when you
think about the realm of sport,that I tend to separate that, as
I believe that sport is a bitof a beast of its own in
different ways.
But you know, my focus inparticular is the everyday
person who wants to return totheir life and return to their
lifestyle.
So that comes up first andforemost for me.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Right, when somebody gets a concussion, like your
experience, you said well, I hadto go to five different
providers every single week andhave five different appointments
and the concussion center foreverybody that they can just go
to and have all of the testsdone and then see all the
providers who are all workingtogether.
Yeah, just get everyone.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Sorry, just so passionate about this point, I'm
just jumping right in.
Yes, like imagine that we coulddo that, you know, and in the
meantime I mean that's not goingto be like a snap fingers and
move overnight type of thing,but in the meantime, resources
like your book, for example, oryou know the way that I'm able
to bring lived experiencetogether to present to
practitioners I feel like thesetypes of changes in the space
(18:19):
are impactful and they aretaking us in that direction to
be able to take from what weknow so well and equip others
who are already incrediblytalented and educated and
experts in different spaces, butjust to give that extra edge to
them so that they're reallyable to understand it.
In your case, it's for peopleto really deeply understand,
like, what the heck is going onwith me?
What can I do about it?
Dot, dot, dot.
(18:40):
How do I get back to my life?
For me it's, you know,approaching various
practitioners who are experts in, you know, the practical
treatment and the education.
But maybe they haven't livedPPCS before, they haven't lived
concussion before, so they'rehyper focused in their area,
which perhaps is a hands onphysical body treatment.
But you know, are they awarethat, for example, their patient
(19:00):
is having massive issues aroundcomprehension and they can't
quite understand the-homeexercises.
You're telling them to do so,therefore they're dropping off
or so on and so forth, and I'mhoping to, you know, be able to
bring everybody onto a similarpage and to bridge that massive
gap that I see between patientneed and the way the medical
system at times provides thatsupport.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, do you want to talk a little bit about the
types of educational contentyou've developed?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yes, I do.
I'm so excited to be able to be.
I feel like it's such aprivilege to be in this position
to go through a really, reallydeeply humbling life experience
like this, followed byrebuilding all parts of my life,
and then be able to ingrainmyself in the space with
thousands of others who haveactively have PPCS, hear their
(19:52):
pain points and then createsomething that I feel paves the
path forward.
So that you know that'sunderlying my eagerness to say
absolutely I do.
So.
What I'm doing right now is I'mteaching educational workshops
that are rooted in real lifeinsight to various concussion
practitioners.
There has been a very, you know,thus far, there's been a very
(20:13):
natural fit for me to servechiropractors and
physiotherapists.
You know, at this point in time,I've been in touch with, you
know various practitioners aswell as clinics, and there are
certain pain points, if you will, various practitioners as well
as clinics, and there arecertain pain points, if you will
, within those spaces, as theseprofessionals provide this
incredible hands-on treatment.
And, you know, if someone hasn't, like I said a moment ago, if
(20:34):
they haven't lived the fullexperience of PPCS and
potentially aren't aware of allthe different parts that are
affecting a patient at any giventime, I'm able to provide
education, practical strategiesand some deep insight to help
fill in those gaps for them.
I want to be really clear thatmy goal in doing this is not to
(20:56):
drown professionals in a levelof information.
It's really to skim the surface, to help them understand what
is the patient perspective, whatare the hidden challenges that
they could be facing that areaffecting the patient, from
either engaging in your therapy,returning to appointments, so
on and so forth, or evenexpressing what is really going
on in their body, followed byactionable steps that the
(21:17):
practitioner can take in theform of practical strategies.
They're able to put them inplace right away, same day after
we have a session together.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
That's amazing.
Can you give me an example?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
like one of those things that somebody could put
into practice right away,no-transcript.
So one thing and this and Iwant to just also give a
disclaimer that a lot, a lot ofthese strategies at the at the
onset might sound fairlysimplistic, but really the magic
is understanding why you'redoing it and then stacking
(21:55):
multiple strategies together.
That is where you're able toreally help to alter how you're
showing up to meet the patientwhere they are.
So, for an example, a lot of inmy experience, a lot of
physiotherapists andchiropractors get, you know,
very excited with, with patienteducation.
And so the you know end of theappointment comes and you know
maybe they're they're ready tooff board for that particular
(22:16):
appointment.
They're wrapping up.
They want to tell the patientyou know what exercises to
engage in, how many times.
They want to also say do youhave any plans this weekend?
Oh, and also, by the way, thereason you're doing X exercise
is for.
And then they insert someinteresting education about the
body and about the patient'sinjury they're working through.
So for me, for example, you know, when I work with physios and
(22:37):
chiros one-to-one, I ask themI'm like, hey, can you give me
an example of how you'rewrapping up an appointment.
And so, because for me, at thispoint in time, it's very, it's
very quick and easy, with theknowledge that I have to be able
to say, okay, these are thesections that you're going to be
talking about, let's look tohow can we, how can we present
them in a way that will againmatch the patient where they're
at?
And one really simple thing wecan be aware of is is not
(23:07):
sharing too many topics at onepoint in time within the same
space.
Another piece is really evenmore simple is just to control
how you're speaking.
It's to slow down your speech,it's to insert very intentional
pauses as well, and this givesthe time, gives time for
patients to be able tocognitively, you know, have the
opportunity to catch up a littlebit and to be able to actually
really engage with what's beingsaid.
Youlying this that you andvarious concussion experts may
know is that overwhelm is a verycommon symptom that patients
(23:30):
face EPCS with concussion.
This can be from when you wakeup in the morning, you are just
feeling overwhelmed, or it canbe with receiving a certain
amount of information, orinformation at a certain speed,
information at a certain speed.
So it's really, you know,equipping professionals to
understand what's going on forthe patient at any given time,
so they can alter the behaviorand meet the patient where
they're at.
(23:50):
Because, at the end of the day,we're all in this because we
want those incredible patientoutcomes.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So I'm kind of internally smiling as you talk,
because I love to teach and Ithink, if anything, I'm super
guilty of everything you justtalked about in terms of smiling
.
I'm like, okay, I probablyovershare way too much
information.
It's probably informationoverload.
I'm probably talking too fast,not taking breaks, so yeah, and
(24:21):
I mean from a great place.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's coming from a great place, I know it is.
I mean with you personally, butwith everyone in this space.
Yeah, so I saw you smiling.
I was like I know this is, Iknow this is landing.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Oh yeah, I'm super guilty of all of those.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
But that's the cool thing about this is that the
more and more people that Ispeak with I mean this is just
skimming the surface, like Ilike to do a deeper dive with
people and really understand howare you showing up and I'm able
to very quickly customize aplan forward.
You know, and then I also askeveryone like follow up with me,
let me know how it's going.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And yeah, and I think one of the things that I
learned, you know, early on in,in the dangers of kind of
throwing too much information atsomebody too, is, you know, I
do a comprehensive exam where Igather a lot of information
about a lot of different systemsin the brain and I, so I can
speak to, how is somebody's youknow parietal lobe in terms of
(25:16):
the mapping of their body?
And I think at the start ofreally getting into this I was
just so excited about all theneuroanatomy and neurophysiology
and I'd be trying to educatepeople on this stuff that I
thought was so cool.
But then what I realized isthat these people were taking
the information, but then theyit was like a horrible game of
(25:37):
telephone where then they'd goto their other doctor and say,
oh well, I just saw Dr.
And say, oh well, I just saw DrWolf, and she told me my you
know, my parietal lobes brokenand it's like, well, okay, I
didn't say that.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, you're paraphrasing this.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, and so I was like okay, the game of telephone
is happening and I don't nowwant these other doctors to
think that I'm telling patientssomething I'm not.
To think that I'm tellingpatients something I'm not.
Yes, that's very real, it isreal, and you know sometimes.
So I knew that I wanted to bein healthcare from like the age
of six, and so I forget thatthere's a whole world of people
out there that they're not inthis field and the terminology
(26:23):
is not second nature to them.
And so when I start going onand on about dysautonomia and
different parts of the brain, Ithink a lot of people are just
like you're speaking Greek to meright now, and so I think that
something that has become sofamiliar to me and ingrained in
my psyche I forget that that isjust a totally different world.
(26:46):
If I tried to hang out with amathematician, I would just be
like I don't.
I don't understand what you'retalking about.
Or even like a car mechanic I'mlike does not compute.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Exactly Right and and that's what the way that your
brain is operating now, right,and imagine having those
in-depth conversations with thatmechanic or with a
mathematician when you were inthat post-concussive state,
right, and I don't mean this,people who are listening can't
see us just like smirking away.
We're just we're smirkingpretty hard here and I want to
(27:18):
say again I know it comes from,like you said, it's just, it's a
place of enthusiasm, it'ssharing, it's just, it's a place
of enthusiasm, it's sharing,it's passion and I love that and
you are one of my favoritetypes to work with Because you
know what you're describing.
It's actually so, so common andyou know that gives me actually
a lot of hope.
And around people who do treatthe concussion population,
because nowadays, especially inthe past five, six years, we've
seen a lot increased uptake inresearch, in discussion, in
(27:42):
funding, in so many, you knowuptake in research, in
discussion, in funding, in somany, you know people paving new
paths forward.
And so when I have the privilegeof working with various health
practitioners who serve thatpopulation and are excited and
lit up to educate and to talkabout what they're doing with
the person, that fuels me withhope, because it wasn't always
that way.
You know it's really what.
Even in the past 10 years,we've seen massive changes.
(28:04):
Let alone, you know, if wecontinue going decades back.
But where we're at right now, Ijust feel like we're.
It's so timely to be reallyempowering everyone to just
understand a bit about thebeneath the surface, the behind
the scenes of the experience, sothat we're able to continue,
you know, giving a new pathforward and helping people
recover.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Maybe it's more efficiently maybe it's more
effectively, etc.
Yeah, there's.
You know, there is a lot ofthought that could go into a lot
of the, the layout of even aclinic, and so, because I've had
my concussions and I've hadlight sensitivity and there's
certain backgrounds that I don'tlike, I completely understand
(28:46):
when people come into my officeand they say, hey, I need you to
dim the lights, I need you toturn off the white noise machine
.
Can we turn the blinds all theway up so that there's not this
contrast between the sky andthen the blackout curtains, Like
when people come into my office.
That's the kind of stuff that Ican completely jump on board
with because I'm I completelyunderstand it.
(29:08):
So there's certain things thatI'm good at, but then, like I
said, I'm like okay, I'mprobably not so good at the slow
down the talking.
Take some pauses, make surethat people are still with you.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Well, but I'm so glad that you're mentioning this
because it's it's so, it's socommon what you're saying with
experts in various spaces, justlike yourself, and you know what
you're describing.
I have so many thoughts.
I'm going to try to consolidatewhere we're going here in my
point.
But you know, with variouspatients or clients coming to
see you and asking for specificshifts in the physical
environment, that of course, ofcourse that would land and of
(29:47):
course then you're like, ofcourse I'll do this for you and
it makes sense for our treatmentor it doesn't, depending on how
you're treating.
I can't speak to that, but Ialso want to say that you know
when I.
Why I'm so lit up about servingpractitioners in this way is
because often, just you know,practitioners and expertise set
aside for a moment, we are alljust human and and so often as
humans, we just we look forvisual cues to help guide us,
(30:08):
whether we're in conversation orwe're doing an intake form or
anything like that, and this issomething also that I bring to
the attention of people that I,that I serve is just, you know,
in the concussion and PPCS,space masking is an incredibly
common activity that peopleengage in for a variety of
reasons, and when I say masking,I mean someone who's, you know,
maybe their brain, maybethey're not able to listen,
(30:31):
they're not following language,maybe they're in pain, maybe
their mind is, they're notfocusing, they're not paying
attention, the lightsdistracting, etc.
Etc.
Right, maybe they're not reallypresent, but externally they
might be just nodding along andsmiling, much like you and I are
right now on this conversation,right?
So I also really, you know,want to bring that in front of
people and say that that is whywhat I'm doing, I feel, is
(30:51):
really helping to pave a path bypartnering with professionals
and just really meetingprofessionals where they're at.
You know, it's when you are,when you have such a level of
expertise built in a field, likeyou said, you're not
necessarily thinking on thissort of micro step level, but
that's where I come in andthat's why it's so complimentary
(31:12):
for me to be able to bring thisin and, you know, help equip
you to continue really helpingpeople get where they need to be
.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, that's a really good point that you make.
So somebody could be noddingalong, acting like they're
completely engaged in whatyou're saying.
But the reality is that theymight be completely checked out
and their brain maybe just kindof shuts off in a moment or
they're too distracted by anoise or the lighting or all
that stuff.
And so I do often check in withmy patients when they come in
(31:40):
and I'm asking them do you wantthese lights off?
Do you want the shades up?
Do you want the music off?
Because I know that these arereally important things that
could completely derail atreatment.
If the entire time they're inthe room, they're uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and I'm so glad, like you know,
with your lived experience,you're already you know leaps
and bounds beyond perhaps apractitioner that hasn't had
that opportunity, should we say,to live the experience and to
know those things that you knowand you know.
I'll just share something thatcame to mind when you were
describing the environment andpatients or clients making
requests.
It takes me back a few years,so I want to separate this.
(32:17):
So, for my recovery, I attendedRMT sessions that were very
painful but necessary to helpget my back and neck in order.
Outside of that, I decided tobook myself a relaxation massage
at a nice spa a few years ago,and so I went in going to go do
my thing.
And I got in there and I waslaying down and you know, the
lights are dim and there wasmusic on, and that was at a
(32:38):
point when I was just reallyintolerant.
It was really, you know, notrelaxing for me, and so I'd
asked this, this practitioner,I'm like hey, do you mind
actually just turning the musicoff?
And she's like sure.
So she turned it down like acouple of levels and came back
and started going in.
I was like oops, nope, sorry,do you mind turning it off, off
so that there's no sound, andshe just couldn't cope with that
.
She's like what you don't wantsound, okay, like off.
(33:02):
So she turned it off and then Ithink she just felt weird and
that was her own journey.
Bless her heart.
But but to the point of, youknow that type of experience
very much.
A lot of patients who might havePPCS going in to see various
practitioners, they might beasking for things like that and
if the practitioner isn't, as Isay, concussion informed, they
may receive similar feedback.
(33:22):
And so, yeah, I just I justwanted to share that.
That's just an offshoot thatcame to mind and I was like,
yeah, this just kind of drivesthe point further.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, and in a lot of physical therapy clinics you've
got open therapy bays whereyou've got a lot of people all
kind of in one space together,and so I could also see in in
that sense that you know it canbe difficult when you're coming
in and there's all this kind ofcommotion going on around you.
I mean.
I know.
For me, I've never understoodhow anybody can take their
(33:52):
laptop to a coffee shop and getany kind of work done, because I
need, like complete silence andzero distraction in order to
focus.
I don't.
I don't need the opposite,which is people coming and going
and talking and music and thesound of the coffee machines.
I don't.
I don't need the opposite,which is people coming and going
and talking and music and thesound of the coffee machines.
I'm just like I don'tunderstand how that's even a
thing.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Let me ask you this Did you feel that way before
your injuries in the 2012 sortof to 2014 period?
Think about coffee shops.
Think about being at an eventor a concert or a busy
environment, traveling in anairplane think about those.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Well, so my first concussion was when I was 18.
And I got kicked in the head,and after that I had a change in
my hearing where it was reallyhard to hear other people in
busy environments.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
And I have a whole section of that in my book.
But so I think that I when Iwas younger I for sure hung out
at coffee shops, but I never.
I don't think I could everreally get much work done at a
coffee shop, and I also didn'tlove being in really loud, noisy
(35:00):
environments because I justcouldn't hear the people I was
with and it was always a littlefrustrating to be like what
would you say?
What'd you say, what?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah, I thank you for sharing that, and I know from
experience exactly what you'retalking about in terms of the
loud environment, and I wascurious, just, you know, being
that you had your firstconcussion at 18, of course,
that could have shifted somethings for you starting then,
but you know, being in a coffeeshop, that is something that I
have personally been veryaffected by as well, so I was
nodding away when you're sharingthis and this is something that
you know, I've sharedthroughout to every practitioner
(35:32):
I've ever worked with, tospeaking on podcasts, to working
with people one on one, to, youknow, bringing that into how I
teach now with practitioners aswell.
Coffee shops it's so funnybecause you're right, for some
people, they go and they read abook and it's an ideal
environment.
It's total chaos, if you ask me, but in my experience of this,
(35:56):
I'm kind of opposite from you.
So nowadays I mean, oh my gosh,since my injury, coffee shops
are not relaxing.
I can't hear, I can't focus.
It feels like overwhelmingchaos.
There's movement, there's sound, everything.
There's smell, right, like allthe senses are engaged.
However, in my before life, Iused to work in events, and so I
traveled.
Often.
Airplanes are very loud, by theway, I traveled often I was,
you know, being in a crowd of100,000 or 500,000 people was
(36:17):
very normal for me and I didexcel in that space.
That is when I focused my bestand I was a person in those days
where I constantly I mean Iworked remotely a lot of the
time.
So I was constantly working onairplanes, on trains, in coffee
shops, in restaurants, in themiddle of a 500,000 person event
.
So I had that experience where,for me, I was just that is
where I tapped in and I was mymost efficient.
(36:39):
I think like there's somethingto be said here about being an
A-type and, you know, inoverdrive, but that's a whole
other conversation.
So for me it's just been thismassive shift where now you
bring up coffee shops and likethat's a massive topic in my
personal life and my personalexperience.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, and for so long I didn't understand why I had
so much anxiety when I would say, go to a restaurant with a
group of people or, you know, aparty or whatever it was, where
there was just a lot of peopleand a lot of noise and a lot of
conversations.
So for the thing that you knowis I often am kind of stunned by
is the fact that when I hadpost-concussion syndrome, I
didn't know I hadpost-concussion syndrome.
I just knew I was struggling inlife and I didn't quite know
why until I had my light bulbmoment that went off.
(37:26):
And so for so long I justdidn't know why I felt anxious
and uncomfortable in my own skin.
And then, obviously, once Irecognized what was going on and
I was like, oh aha, this allmakes sense.
I just remember very clearly mysister and I went to New Orleans
in 2021 for a little sistergetaway vacation and we were
(37:48):
walking down Bourbon Street on aSaturday night and I was
walking down the street and Iwas like, yeah, I mean, we're
talking 10 years or more of notbeing comfortable in busy
environments and avoidingconcerts and avoiding crowds and
(38:10):
avoiding, you know, state fairsand avoiding all that stuff.
And then to be able to walkdown Bourbon Street and feel
relaxed in my own skin on aSaturday night.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Okay, I have goosebumps, I genuinely do,
because what you're sharing likeit's still it's still really
strikes a chord with me.
I can still.
I feel what you're feeling.
I feel what you're describing.
That is massive and if somebodyhasn't lived the experience
that you have, with yourmultiple concussions, especially
in a short period of time andPPCS, or the PPCS I experienced,
they wouldn't quite grasp that.
But that alone, I mean justlike it's probably one of the
(38:43):
most chaotic environments youcould ever paint to drop into.
So so that's huge and, ofcourse, it stands out to you as
this, this flashbulb memory ofaha.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yeah, it was kind of a victory moment.
Not that I need to be onBourbon street frequently, but
let's be clear Ayla does do someincredible work.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
She's not always on Bourbon street.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Yeah.
So I mean, I think, too, somepeople start to feel hopeless.
They feel like, oh, is thisever going to get better?
And for me, you know, I had twoconcussions that were 10 days
apart, maybe in 2012.
, and then another one in 2013.
Then I had one in 2018.
And I actually just hit my headtwo months ago and I had
(39:24):
symptoms for 10 days.
And so, again, it's like peopleoften have this sense of
hopelessness, and sometimes it'snice to hear that for me, I
don't feel like I'm missing outon life by not going to concerts
and events and I'm such anintrovert that I don't feel like
I'm missing out but to be ableto have the flexibility to be
(39:48):
okay in those environments if Ifind myself in them, that's
important to me, and so it tooka very long time, but it was
like, hey, I made it, ithappened.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
It's a massive moment of triumph.
I hope you found some way tocelebrate it, or I did, I'm sure
you did too.
You know to your point of thehopelessness piece that that is
huge in the space of PPCS, andyou know living that myself.
So again, I will just kind ofremind for our listeners that
(40:21):
you know I have always had thisraise my hand and say I am high
achiever, I'm a type A, I'm highfunctioning, I, you know, I'm a
lifelong leader and learner.
Like this has really been mypersonality forever really.
And so for me to live like thatand you know, whenever
previously I came up against astruggle or something and I was
like, well, I'll push through,well, I'll make it through, well
(40:49):
, I'll learn my way through,well, I'll just do it Right and
so for me to experiencesomething like PPCS where I was
completely pulled completelyfrom under me you know living
this.
I remember this time where, thistime in my life I should say
where I was in a time in my lifewhere a lot of people around me
, whether it was friends orcommunities, et cetera, et
cetera, people were movingforward.
They were hitting thesestereotypical trajectory or
milestones, you know buyingplaces, traveling to certain
areas getting married, havingkids, like this whole type of
(41:10):
you know transition washappening.
But for me, you know, with thatpersonality described, where I
was at in my life is boilingwater and frying an egg at the
same time, the same time.
The level of multitaskinginvolved in that took me months
to be able to to get into sothat I can complete that type of
task successfully.
So when you talk about you knowfacing hopelessness, I mean
(41:34):
from from my own experience thatthe worst thing in the world
was just not having an end date,because I think you you
definitely relate with this.
I'm just going to make thatsweeping assumption that you are
a goal oriented person and youknow you work towards goals,
you're high achieving, you knowyou want to continue that
momentum and know where you'regoing and know what the
trajectory is like.
But all of a sudden, when youfind yourself in a position
where you do not have yourcognitive wherewithal, you do
(41:55):
not have an understanding ofwhat's even happening or maybe
all the ways you're struggling,you do know that you're not
yourself anymore and you don'thave an end date in sight, that
is extraordinarily confronting.
And so, whether it's myexperience or again what I've
just heard from hundreds ofpeople over the years.
That is a very, that's a hugepiece and that's what really,
you know, pulls at myheartstrings.
(42:16):
And that's initially when Istarted serving one-to-one,
because I know that what I referto stuckness in the work that I
do, that in PPCS people can hita certain point of stuckness
and I also, unsurprisingly,specialize in working with
personalities like my own, thelifelong leaders and learners,
the high achievers, because Iunderstand that that personality
(42:36):
type process is that type ofloss in a very specific way.
So, you know, my heart is in itand even to this day, I
consistently receive referralsand I'm so deeply grateful, you
know, for people to be willingto reach out or to have their
contact information passed on,etc.
But I feel that I want tocreate systemic change that then
trickles down and affectseverybody positively.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, that's incredible and it pulls on my
heartstrings too, as somebodywho practices traditional East
Asian medicine.
I have a lot of otherpractitioners that are in my
profession who have hadconcussions and then had, and
then reached out to me and, youknow, asked me to help them.
And so it's, you know when,when I'm seeing a fellow
(43:23):
colleague who's now facing thethat kind of fear of when am I
going to get better, when am Igoing to be able to return back
to work, if at all?
I mean, I really viscerallyfeel that because I know what
that's like.
And there was, you know, therewas a point where I could only
see about two patients a day andthat was as much as I could
tolerate and, uh, so I know, Iknow what that feels like and
(43:47):
it's scary terrifying.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
It's like there's this I often talk about this and
I'm going to take us here.
Let me know if you'd like tostay or move elsewhere, but you
know what I really often talkabout because I think it's so
important in terms of justreally facilitating a greater
understanding of PPCS.
There is is the you know, thehigh level.
There's the high level pieces.
This is the physical struggle.
(44:09):
This is not being able to work,this is not being yourself
anymore, not volunteering, notbeing in community, for example,
that you know others are ableto more easily perceive not
always, sometimes.
But then there's also the secondlevel that I describe in the
PPCS journey and that reallythat is a deeply profound
experience that a lot of peoplego through, which is being
ripped away from a sense of self.
You know it's like people talkabout not defining yourself by
(44:36):
external factors, but I thinkthat a lot of people do, whether
intentionally or not, and whenyou have all these external
factors suddenly ripped awayfrom you, including your
cognitive wherewithal, who areyou Right?
And like the whole, the wholerest of that, like that's also.
You know, my heart is inserving people one-to-one,
because I understand that.
I've lived it, but I also havemade it through.
(44:56):
I also have strategies.
I also can engage inconversations that help people
find a way to introspect and tomove through that piece, because
losing a sense of who you wereis just it's very hard to put
into words.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah, and I think that that deep kind of spiritual
journey is not often part ofthe conversation in healthcare
at all.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Oh, absolutely, it's, yeah, and to an extent, I mean,
I do understand.
If you know, healthcare tendsto be fairly, fairly siloed.
Right, we have experts inspecific places and we need and
want them there and that's whatthey handle.
But in traditional medicalEastern medicine, of course,
what you practice is verydifferent Eastern medicine and
maybe blending into spiritualityand other holistic spaces, but
(45:39):
traditional, that's not covered.
So that's one of the massivegaps that I saw in the space,
just someone who you knowunderstood my entire experience,
the whole thing.
And how do I move through onthe whole piece?
Because, in my opinion andagain based on myself and based
on hundreds of other people thathave been sharing pain points
and challenges, these two areinterconnected at some point in
time, right, Absolutely,absolutely.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
And I'm curious now that you're six years out.
You said that you used to bevery athletic.
Do you still exercise, or doyou have certain hobbies now
that keep you physically active,that that you're able to do?
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah, so I'm actually I'm so proud of myself.
It took me years to get back to, um, these very intense, um,
heated HIIT workouts that I doget back to these very intense,
heated HIIT workouts that I do.
I was practicing that way.
Practicing I mean I was workingout in that way for many years.
I had this injury and I mean Ihad a whole myriad of struggles.
(46:38):
I mean anything from my leftsand rights being confused to
heart rate variability, issues,to just so many things that
prevented me, not to mentionneck and back injuries and other
you know, chronic fatigue andother pieces.
It was a whole mess.
I couldn't do it.
It took me years.
I have been pushing towardsgetting back.
I'm now in the exact sameworkouts that I used to do,
which gives me so much joy andso much pride.
And you know, like anytimeyou're in that room, I I just
(47:00):
like look at myself in themirror and I just genuinely feel
so deeply proud because I am aperson who does bear those
emotional scars and I still workthrough some parts that are
challenging for me.
Yet I show up and I'm there andmy body shows up for me.
I show up for myself and youknow I'm putting, I'm like, I
was gonna say like and I'mputting muscle on, which sounds
so funny.
This is my inner dialogue.
(47:20):
We just had an indoor thoughtescape outdoors and it's OK
funny.
This is my inner dialogue.
We just had an indoor thought,escape outdoors.
But I mean, that's part of it,right, like, it's like feeling
good, it's that energy, it's,it's yeah, it's so.
That is something I'm reallyhappy with.
Um, again, in means of myvulnerability, I will also share
that I am back and I am capableof being in that room.
But I will say that in theparticular studio that I work at
(47:44):
and work out at sorry, not workat the studio that I work out
at, um, there, you know, there'speople with a variety of um.
You know people in a variety oflike, whether it's health space
or fitness level.
It's just a mix of people.
I will say that I still dostruggle with heart rate
variability, um, that has notfully resolved.
And so with certain movementswhere my hands are, you know, at
(48:06):
shoulder height or above myhead, my heart absolutely races
and then all of a sudden, veryquickly, I'm on the brink of
either passing out or throwingup, to be very honest with you,
and so that I wanted to sharethat, because I am the only
person, consistently for variousparts of that class, who drops
down to her knees to try tomanage my heart rate a bit,
(48:26):
whereas everyone of all thesevarying levels, everyone is
standing, everyone's completingthe workout standing.
So for me, it's also very clearto me that this is an example of
you know, I'm able to be there,I'm so proud, I'm getting a
great workout, I'm having thebest sweat of my life every time
I go and I'm so proud, but I'mstill not quite at my normal or
even at an a usual expectationfor the class.
(48:47):
So, anyway, that I just want toshare that piece physically and
there's more what I'm doingphysically, but yeah, well, no,
I mean, that has to be such agood feeling to know that you
can get back and, even if youhave to make some modifications,
the fact that you're back, andthat shows that there's still
more that can be done.
Absolutely, that's exactly it.
(49:07):
It's just, it's justopportunity for continued growth
, for continued improvement.
That's exactly it.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Is there anything else that you want to share in
terms of what you're doing asfar as the work you're doing
with chiropractic clinics andphysical therapy clinics and
kind of these concussion rehabspecialty clinics?
And you mentioned somethingabout a community forum.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yeah, so thank you for bringing this up.
So right now, as I mentioned,I'm teaching educational
workshops to variouspractitioners various
practitioners like on anindividual level, as well as
concussion clinics, rehabclinics.
I've actually had a coupleeducational institutions reach
out to me, which is reallyinteresting angle to think about
.
So that's kind of in the works,and what I'm also building is
(49:50):
an online learning community forprofessionals.
So this is a space that willcontain things like, you know,
preloaded video content,potentially mini courses, you
know, discussion forum,one-on-ones with me, ebooks,
this kind of material, and it'sreally designed specifically for
practitioners who treat theconcussion space, which you know
(50:10):
could be anything from a doctor, a neurologist, occupational
therapist, kinesiologist, andthen you know, all these
different, various hands-onbody-based treatment providers.
Generally, these people havepretty tight schedules and so
it's meant to be a resource thatthey can just pop into, grab a
resource and go, and so thatthat is, you know, coming down
the pipeline.
I'm very excited about buildingthat out.
(50:31):
That will be launching, youknow, this year, ideally in
summer, but we're going to sayTVC, because I have a few other
things in the works too.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Okay, and then when you're talking to these clinics,
is that also like live, I meanlike through Zoom or is that
pre-recorded videos that peopleare watching?
Speaker 2 (50:49):
So currently I'm presenting in a live fashion.
I am presenting virtually live.
If a clinic is interested in anin-person presentation, that's
something we're definitely ableto talk about.
I'm in talks with two clinicsright now about an in-person
just their own preference versusothers?
Sure, yeah, and that's how.
I'm in talks with two clinicsright now about an in-person
just their own preference versusothers.
Sure, yeah, and that's that'show I'm currently showing up.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Awesome.
And then where can people findyou and all of these resources?
Speaker 2 (51:11):
So my website is wwwreturntolifeca spelled
traditionally.
I believe it will be in theshow notes as well.
You're also welcome to find meon LinkedIn.
My name is Chandani Khan.
I would love to connect withyou to share more resources
there and, if you'd like to sendme an email, I'm always open to
hearing from you knowpractitioners or people with
(51:32):
PPCS or someone who's outside ofthe space and maybe wants to
talk about a various type ofcollaboration.
My email is hello atreturntolifeca.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Perfect, I'll definitely put all that in the
show notes.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on the show, and I
definitely want to do this againin the future.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Thank you so much for having me.
This was a really greatconversation.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
I'm very excited for your book, thank you, should be
out next week, so I will let youknow as soon as it's available.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I will put all yourcontact information with your
LinkedIn, your website.
Do you want me to do yourInstagram?
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Let's throw it on there.
That's, you know, need to givemy Instagram some love, but
there is some content on there.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Okay, great.
I know what that feels like.
You know it's hard to beeverywhere all at once.
Yes, just yes, hard stop, yep,excellent.
Well, I'll put all that inthere and thank you so much.
This has been great.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Thank you, I'll talk to you again soon.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Medical disclaimer.
This video or podcast is forgeneral informational purposes
only and does not constitute thepractice of medicine or other
professional health careservices, including the giving
of medical advice.
No doctor-patient relationshipis formed.
The use of this information andmaterials included is at the
(52:57):
user's own risk.
The content of this video orpodcast is not intended to be a
substitute for medical advice,diagnosis or treatment, and
consumers of this informationshould seek the advice of a
medical professional for any andall health related issues.
A link to our full medicaldisclaimer is available in the
notes.
Hey listeners, ayla Wolf here.
I've been talking about my bookfor six months now and I can
finally say it's finished.
You can find my book on Amazon.
It is titled the ConcussionBreakthrough Discover the
Missing Pieces to Recovery.
Just look for the light graycover with a water colored
puzzle piece brain and you'll bein the right spot.
(00:22):
I'll put a link in the shownotes as well.
In this episode of the podcast,I have a very honest and open
conversation with an absolutelywonderful soul, chandani Khan.
I listened to her speak on adifferent podcast and I
immediately looked her upbecause I knew I wanted to talk
to her.
Six years ago, a brain injuryderailed Chandani's entire life,
(00:45):
which left her navigatingpersistent post-concussion
symptoms what she refers to asPPCS in the episode and an
overwhelming amount of loss.
Preparing a cup of tea, washingclothes and sending emails
became monumental challenges,and her familiar fast-paced
lifestyle appeared impossiblyfar out of reach.
(01:07):
Going through years of recoveryappointments and eventually
ingraining herself in theconcussion space allowed her to
identify key gaps and the demandfor a new path forward.
She is now asurvivor-turned-educator for
practitioners who serve theconcussion PPCS population.
(01:28):
She currently teacheseducational workshops and looks
forward to announcing the launchof her Learning Community for
Professionals in 2025.
She aims to lead lasting changein the overall space through
education and innovation, and Ihope you enjoy this conversation
with Chandani as much as I did.
Thanks again for listening tothe show.
(01:50):
If you wouldn't mind taking aminute and leaving us a quick
review that helps listeners likeyou find us a little bit easier
.
Welcome to Life After Impact,the concussion recovery podcast.
I'm Dr Ayla Wolf and I will behosting today's episode where we
help you navigate the oftenconfusing, frustrating and
(02:10):
overwhelming journey ofconcussion and brain injury
recovery.
This podcast is your go-toresource for actionable
information, whether you'redealing with a recent concussion
, struggling withpost-concussion syndrome or just
feeling stuck in your healingprocess.
In each episode, we dive deepinto the symptoms, testing,
treatments and neurologicalinsights that can help you move
(02:33):
forward with clarity andconfidence.
We bring you leading experts inthe world of brain health,
functional neurology andrehabilitation to share their
wisdom and strategies.
So if you're feeling lost,hopeless or like no one
understands what you're goingthrough, know that you are not
alone.
This podcast can be your guideand partner in recovery, helping
(02:54):
you build a better life afterimpact.
Chandani, thank you for comingon to the Life After Impact
podcast, and I'm very muchlooking forward to our
conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Thank you for having me.
I as well am looking forward todiving in with you.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, why don't you start by telling us a little bit
about your story and kind ofwhat your life looked like
before your head injury, andthen what happened after?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Sure so to be able to share the intensity and the
gravity of the situation and theinjury, I'd like to share a
little bit about my old selffirst.
So I used to work in the eventsindustry and, for those who
know, it is chaotic, it isdemanding, it is wild, but it's
also so much fun.
And you know, in that industryI was traveling frequently as
(03:41):
well, as you know, working 50 to70 hours a week at times.
I also had a very busy sociallife.
I had hobbies and sports and Iwas an avid volunteer for many
years, actually since childhood.
So, as you can see, I wasliving a very fulsome life.
And then, you know, one day Iwas in a car accident, which was
(04:01):
actually six years ago, and Ihad neck and back injuries, but
by far the worst was aconcussion brain injury that I
sustained.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Do you, can you, speak a little bit to maybe the
immediate symptoms that you had,as well as kind of, maybe
symptoms that became moreobvious as time went on?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, and that's a really good question.
I appreciate that you'repulling it apart that way
because, you know, initiallyafter the injury, you know I had
a lot of trouble understandingbasic conversation.
I had a lot of trouble, youknow, with word finding.
I felt really just really odd.
I felt like I was in this brainfog, this really sort of
distant space from where Iphysically was.
(04:38):
I was having a hard time withall types of memory Working.
Memory was especiallychallenging for me.
So to be able to, you know, beactive and engaged in someone
speaking to me or any given task, and I had challenges around,
you know, life sensitivity,sound sensitivity and so on and
so forth.
But the interesting thing is, aswe know now with concussions,
is that some symptoms do show upright after the injury, whereas
(04:59):
others kind of evolve in time,whether it's a couple of days or
a couple of weeks, etc.
Now I just just to really addsome color context to this.
I went from living that fulsomelife that I described to all of
a sudden being a person who didnot know how to make a sandwich
anymore.
So it just didn't make sensefor me.
Also, you know other basicskills like I.
It just evaded me, leaving thehouse with two shoes on my feet.
(05:22):
You know I would somehowscramble, try to grab what I
needed.
Leave the house, get outside,look down and I'd see one shoe
and one sock and I like,internally I knew something was
wrong, but I couldn't actuallycognitively figure out what the
problem was.
So I would just cry and cry,and cry and then I would just be
a mess of tears and confusion.
And you know some other examples.
(05:43):
Is I like to show up in a veryvulnerable, raw way, to really
lead by example.
So even you know, being able tofind clean clothes every day,
that was something that wasextraordinarily challenging for
me.
You know, I'd go into my closet, I'd look around, I'd get
distracted, I wasn't sure what Iwas doing, I wasn't focusing, I
wasn't paying attention.
You know what I know now to beprefrontal cortex.
(06:04):
You know skills of whether it'slike analysis or organizing or
planning or thinking.
You know, through complex tasks, I just, it just was too much
for me to be able to think thisis a clean shirt, I should take
off the one that I'm wearing andput it on.
So you know.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, that's gotta be so scary to.
I mean, event planning is likemy worst nightmare because
there's so many moving parts toplanning an event and so for me
maybe with all my concussions,whenever there's an event that
I'm supposed to help plan, it'smy least favorite thing, because
I don't think my brain likes tohave to work in that way.
So for you to be this expertlevel event planner to then not
(06:42):
even being able to understand,like, how to find clean clothes
and put shoes on and make asandwich, I mean that had to
have been so scary.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It was.
It was, it was scary, it wasoverwhelming, you know.
At that time, though, Irealized now that I didn't have
the cognitive wherewithal tohave the luxury of introspecting
and thinking wow, this is scary, it was just.
I was just in the situation, itwas full on, I was overwhelmed,
I was anxious about it, I wascrying for these unknown reasons
(07:11):
.
It just was very different.
And a note on events is that Iabsolutely love logistics.
I've always loved logistics.
I love the chaos.
I still have love in my heartfor the chaos of events.
That's, of course, not what Ido anymore.
It's not, probably, where Iabsolutely excel at the same
level, but I still have thatlove for it, and you can call me
next time you have an eventyou're working with well, I plan
(07:31):
on doing a book launch, so ifyou want to help me plan that,
okay.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So that's so.
You were very symptomatic andpretty immediately after the
injury, and then you also hadthe physical injuries, with the
neck injury.
To tell me a little bit aboutsome of the initial therapies
that you sought out and wherewere you finding the most help,
kind of either, you know rightaway.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So, you know, it's one of those things I kind of
sigh first before answering thisquestion, because what I know
now I wish I knew then.
There isn't necessarily like astandardized process that every
single person with a concussionis put through right.
There is so much variance inthe space.
So when I speak about this itvery much is speaking to my own
(08:16):
experience and for now I'll holdon speaking to the experience
of others.
So for me, in a hyper-specificway, I was initially referred
over to body based treatment.
So you know, chiropractor, aphysiotherapist, rmt, and from
there, you know these, one ofthe professionals that I worked
with at that point in time wasconcussion informed and was able
(08:40):
to identify other areas that Ishould be looking at, you know,
and we added a kinesiologist tothe team and so on and so forth.
In my personal experience I,you know, also had a doctor and
a neurologist and I saw, youknow, holistic care like
acupuncture, and I saw anosteopath who specializes in
cranial treatment and concussion, and you know there were
actually more than this.
(09:00):
There is a bit of a laundrylist.
So I was seeing, you know, awhole collection of
professionals.
Initially I was in appointments, you know, a few times a week,
sometimes up to five days a week, and this lasted for a few
years of my life.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Wow, that's a lot of therapy.
Yes, absolutely.
I.
That really resonates with metoo, in terms of you know, when
any healthcare provider takes aclass on concussions, they
always start the class with onceyou've seen one concussion,
you've seen one concussion.
But the truth also is that onceyou've seen one doctor, you've
(09:37):
seen one doctor, and so thedegree to which that healthcare
provider is informed onconcussions and can step in and
provide the guidance and therecommendations of well let's,
you know, let's look at thisaspect and that aspect and have
have we looked at theneurocognitive testing?
Have we done the rightassessments for the neck
(09:57):
injuries?
Have we, you know, looked intothe mental health side of it?
You know there's, like you said, there's so many places where
somebody can fall through thecracks or not necessarily have
all, all parts of it getaddressed.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Absolutely, and what you're.
You know I love that expressionthat you that you shared.
I haven't heard the other halfof it that you shared as well,
about the practitioner side, butit's very interesting and I
mean that that's the exact thing.
Is that from the patientperspective?
You know different now, if Izoom out a little bit and think
about, you know hundreds ofpeople with PPCS that I've heard
pain points and challenges fromover the years.
You know, it's just it's a verydifferent path forward and, as
(10:36):
you said, there are a lot offactors.
I mean, of course there arepersonal factors that might be
preexisting conditions, might bemental health, but but if we
kind of set those aside and lookat the similarities in terms of
the concussion experience, Imean it would be incredible if
we were able to push to a placewhere there is a standardized
treatment, standardized testing,and then there's specific
treatment that everyone justgoes through.
(10:56):
Right now, patients are verymuch relying on.
Well, the onus does fall on thepatient in terms of concussion
and PPCS recovery.
So, you know, maybe it's on youto think what's wrong with me
during a time when your brain,your cognitive skills, are not
there the way they used to be.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Maybe you know you're researching, but again you're
having trouble being on a laptop, reading the words,
comprehending what you'rereading, also just relying on
(11:39):
being sent to variousprofessionals who you know I say
this very respectfully a lot ofprofessionals can treat, but
not all professionals areconcussion informed, and that
makes a massive difference interms of really being able to
meet the patient where they'reat and serve them in a way that
works and it sets them up forthink.
When you use the term persistentpost-concussion syndrome, you
know that's what my book isreally.
That is who my book is for, andI think that most of the books
out there, the educationalmaterials out there, are kind of
this standard like, oh, you geta concussion and here's what it
(12:02):
looks like, but it's still verymuch that acute stage.
And so once you have somebodywho clearly is not healing in
the kind of expected shortwindow of time and they go on to
have these persistent symptoms,that's where I think people do
end up falling through thecracks more.
And so that was really you know, that was the group of people
(12:24):
that my book was geared towardsis the people who are like okay,
you know I'm now a year out andI'm still symptomatic, so what
do I do next?
And what maybe got missed?
You know, over the last 12months that I still need to
address?
So, I'm curious, you know, canyou talk about where you are now
, six years after, and how areyou doing and are there still
(12:46):
therapies you're pursuing?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I will happily dive right into those questions, but
I just wanted to comment and saythat I am so excited about your
book.
I am thrilled that you havewritten it for that population.
I refer to PPCS persistentpost-concussive symptoms, also
known as PCS, and a few otherterms.
In my experience, in my opinion, in my realm, this is a fairly,
(13:11):
you know, forgotten segment,although current research is
telling us that approximately30% of concussion cases do
become persistent.
Now, that's thousands uponthousands of people who are
sitting in that level ofstuckness and, like you said,
they're a year out, they're fiveyears out, so on and so forth,
and they still have symptoms orjust, you know, various
limitations in their lifebecause of symptoms that may or
(13:31):
may not be aware of.
So I just wanted to pepper thatin and say that I'm so thrilled
that you've created this bookand this incredible resource and
I'm looking forward to readingit.
So now, where was I going?
Next was going to, uh, give alittle check-in of where I'm at
now, six years later.
Yes, okay, so, yeah, so,actually, as of last month um,
(13:52):
it was my six-year anniversaryand you know, in a lot of ways I
have improved a ton,scientifically speaking, a ton.
I've made you know leaps andbounds.
I've back skills.
A lot of this has been veryintentional work, like building
back skills, building updifferent parts of my brain, you
know, really, really pushingforward if that makes sense in
(14:15):
you know, in in a way that worksfor me and my body, in a way
that was guided.
So in this space I mean maybeyou found this as well and in
concussion space, you're oftentaught to when you're answering,
how are you doing?
You're taught to compare backhow are you today versus one
year ago, versus three versusfive, and so if I answer that
way, I'd say I'm doing pretty,pretty amazing.
(14:36):
I will also be honest andcontinue showing up in my
vulnerable way and say thatthere are a few things that are
still not my hundred percentfunctioning, are a few things
that are still not my 100%functioning.
However, when you know I doknow how my brain works right
now, like I'm very well awarehow my brain works, and when I
practice what I preach in termsof showing up in ways that work
for my brain or engaging invarious pacing strategies, I can
(14:57):
be incredibly effective,incredibly limitless.
It's just the times that youknow I do push outside of that,
then I still do find a bit of achallenge.
So you know, I share that againin means of just really saying
hey, I am an expert in the space, I understand where you've been
, I've been there, I can helpyou through and further.
I aim to pave a different pathforward for people with PPCS,
because I don't think it has tobe as hard as it is right now.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, there's a I don't know if he would call
himself a business coach, buthis name is Rory Vaden, and he
always likes to say that you arein the position to help the
person that you once were, andso I think you know that's where
I think you and I have a lot ofsimilarities is like we've both
been, had this lived experience, and now we're in a place where
(15:43):
we're trying to createresources for people.
The book that I wrote was verymuch a book that I would have
loved to have read back in 2012.
You know, when I was, when Ihad a number of concussions
close together and that wasreally kind of the height of my
you know, experience with a lotof post-concussion syndrome was
2012 to 2014 for sure, and so,yeah, I mean I really like I
(16:08):
wrote that book, for you knowthe person I was back then.
You know I would have loved tohave had this book when I was
going through it back then, andI think that it sounds like what
you're doing right now in termsof creating these programs and
these resources for healthcareproviders is to say, man, if I
had had an experience where Icould go to somebody who truly
(16:29):
understood this in a really deepway.
That would have been really,really helpful.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Absolutely, and that's absolutely.
I understand where you'recoming from, saying that you
wrote this book thinking of you.
Know you back then needing thistype of resource First?
My first thought that comes tomy mind is that that is one
thing that is just missing inthe concussion recovery space is
that there isn't just onesingle resource.
There isn't one you know,one-stop shop where people can
be like I have an injury, I'mgoing here.
(16:58):
Every single thing will belooked at.
Now I want to be careful andsay that you know, when you
think about the realm of sport,that I tend to separate that, as
I believe that sport is a bitof a beast of its own in
different ways.
But you know, my focus inparticular is the everyday
person who wants to return totheir life and return to their
lifestyle.
So that comes up first andforemost for me.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Right, when somebody gets a concussion, like your
experience, you said well, I hadto go to five different
providers every single week andhave five different appointments
and the concussion center foreverybody that they can just go
to and have all of the testsdone and then see all the
providers who are all workingtogether.
Yeah, just get everyone.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Sorry, just so passionate about this point, I'm
just jumping right in.
Yes, like imagine that we coulddo that, you know, and in the
meantime I mean that's not goingto be like a snap fingers and
move overnight type of thing,but in the meantime, resources
like your book, for example, oryou know the way that I'm able
to bring lived experiencetogether to present to
practitioners I feel like thesetypes of changes in the space
(18:19):
are impactful and they aretaking us in that direction to
be able to take from what weknow so well and equip others
who are already incrediblytalented and educated and
experts in different spaces, butjust to give that extra edge to
them so that they're reallyable to understand it.
In your case, it's for peopleto really deeply understand,
like, what the heck is going onwith me?
What can I do about it?
Dot, dot, dot.
(18:40):
How do I get back to my life?
For me it's, you know,approaching various
practitioners who are experts in, you know, the practical
treatment and the education.
But maybe they haven't livedPPCS before, they haven't lived
concussion before, so they'rehyper focused in their area,
which perhaps is a hands onphysical body treatment.
But you know, are they awarethat, for example, their patient
(19:00):
is having massive issues aroundcomprehension and they can't
quite understand the-homeexercises.
You're telling them to do so,therefore they're dropping off
or so on and so forth, and I'mhoping to, you know, be able to
bring everybody onto a similarpage and to bridge that massive
gap that I see between patientneed and the way the medical
system at times provides thatsupport.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, do you want to talk a little bit about the
types of educational contentyou've developed?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yes, I do.
I'm so excited to be able to be.
I feel like it's such aprivilege to be in this position
to go through a really, reallydeeply humbling life experience
like this, followed byrebuilding all parts of my life,
and then be able to ingrainmyself in the space with
thousands of others who haveactively have PPCS, hear their
(19:52):
pain points and then createsomething that I feel paves the
path forward.
So that you know that'sunderlying my eagerness to say
absolutely I do.
So.
What I'm doing right now is I'mteaching educational workshops
that are rooted in real lifeinsight to various concussion
practitioners.
There has been a very, you know,thus far, there's been a very
(20:13):
natural fit for me to servechiropractors and
physiotherapists.
You know, at this point in time,I've been in touch with, you
know various practitioners aswell as clinics, and there are
certain pain points, if you will, various practitioners as well
as clinics, and there arecertain pain points, if you will
, within those spaces, as theseprofessionals provide this
incredible hands-on treatment.
And, you know, if someone hasn't, like I said a moment ago, if
(20:34):
they haven't lived the fullexperience of PPCS and
potentially aren't aware of allthe different parts that are
affecting a patient at any giventime, I'm able to provide
education, practical strategiesand some deep insight to help
fill in those gaps for them.
I want to be really clear thatmy goal in doing this is not to
(20:56):
drown professionals in a levelof information.
It's really to skim the surface, to help them understand what
is the patient perspective, whatare the hidden challenges that
they could be facing that areaffecting the patient, from
either engaging in your therapy,returning to appointments, so
on and so forth, or evenexpressing what is really going
on in their body, followed byactionable steps that the
(21:17):
practitioner can take in theform of practical strategies.
They're able to put them inplace right away, same day after
we have a session together.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
That's amazing.
Can you give me an example?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
like one of those things that somebody could put
into practice right away,no-transcript.
So one thing and this and Iwant to just also give a
disclaimer that a lot, a lot ofthese strategies at the at the
onset might sound fairlysimplistic, but really the magic
is understanding why you'redoing it and then stacking
(21:55):
multiple strategies together.
That is where you're able toreally help to alter how you're
showing up to meet the patientwhere they are.
So, for an example, a lot of inmy experience, a lot of
physiotherapists andchiropractors get, you know,
very excited with, with patienteducation.
And so the you know end of theappointment comes and you know
maybe they're they're ready tooff board for that particular
(22:16):
appointment.
They're wrapping up.
They want to tell the patientyou know what exercises to
engage in, how many times.
They want to also say do youhave any plans this weekend?
Oh, and also, by the way, thereason you're doing X exercise
is for.
And then they insert someinteresting education about the
body and about the patient'sinjury they're working through.
So for me, for example, you know, when I work with physios and
(22:37):
chiros one-to-one, I ask themI'm like, hey, can you give me
an example of how you'rewrapping up an appointment.
And so, because for me, at thispoint in time, it's very, it's
very quick and easy, with theknowledge that I have to be able
to say, okay, these are thesections that you're going to be
talking about, let's look tohow can we, how can we present
them in a way that will againmatch the patient where they're
at?
And one really simple thing wecan be aware of is is not
(23:07):
sharing too many topics at onepoint in time within the same
space.
Another piece is really evenmore simple is just to control
how you're speaking.
It's to slow down your speech,it's to insert very intentional
pauses as well, and this givesthe time, gives time for
patients to be able tocognitively, you know, have the
opportunity to catch up a littlebit and to be able to actually
really engage with what's beingsaid.
Youlying this that you andvarious concussion experts may
know is that overwhelm is a verycommon symptom that patients
(23:30):
face EPCS with concussion.
This can be from when you wakeup in the morning, you are just
feeling overwhelmed, or it canbe with receiving a certain
amount of information, orinformation at a certain speed,
information at a certain speed.
So it's really, you know,equipping professionals to
understand what's going on forthe patient at any given time,
so they can alter the behaviorand meet the patient where
they're at.
(23:50):
Because, at the end of the day,we're all in this because we
want those incredible patientoutcomes.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So I'm kind of internally smiling as you talk,
because I love to teach and Ithink, if anything, I'm super
guilty of everything you justtalked about in terms of smiling
.
I'm like, okay, I probablyovershare way too much
information.
It's probably informationoverload.
I'm probably talking too fast,not taking breaks, so yeah, and
(24:21):
I mean from a great place.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's coming from a great place, I know it is.
I mean with you personally, butwith everyone in this space.
Yeah, so I saw you smiling.
I was like I know this is, Iknow this is landing.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Oh yeah, I'm super guilty of all of those.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
But that's the cool thing about this is that the
more and more people that Ispeak with I mean this is just
skimming the surface, like Ilike to do a deeper dive with
people and really understand howare you showing up and I'm able
to very quickly customize aplan forward.
You know, and then I also askeveryone like follow up with me,
let me know how it's going.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And yeah, and I think one of the things that I
learned, you know, early on in,in the dangers of kind of
throwing too much information atsomebody too, is, you know, I
do a comprehensive exam where Igather a lot of information
about a lot of different systemsin the brain and I, so I can
speak to, how is somebody's youknow parietal lobe in terms of
(25:16):
the mapping of their body?
And I think at the start ofreally getting into this I was
just so excited about all theneuroanatomy and neurophysiology
and I'd be trying to educatepeople on this stuff that I
thought was so cool.
But then what I realized isthat these people were taking
the information, but then theyit was like a horrible game of
(25:37):
telephone where then they'd goto their other doctor and say,
oh well, I just saw Dr.
And say, oh well, I just saw DrWolf, and she told me my you
know, my parietal lobes brokenand it's like, well, okay, I
didn't say that.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, you're paraphrasing this.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, and so I was like okay, the game of telephone
is happening and I don't nowwant these other doctors to
think that I'm telling patientssomething I'm not.
To think that I'm tellingpatients something I'm not.
Yes, that's very real, it isreal, and you know sometimes.
So I knew that I wanted to bein healthcare from like the age
of six, and so I forget thatthere's a whole world of people
out there that they're not inthis field and the terminology
(26:23):
is not second nature to them.
And so when I start going onand on about dysautonomia and
different parts of the brain, Ithink a lot of people are just
like you're speaking Greek to meright now, and so I think that
something that has become sofamiliar to me and ingrained in
my psyche I forget that that isjust a totally different world.
(26:46):
If I tried to hang out with amathematician, I would just be
like I don't.
I don't understand what you'retalking about.
Or even like a car mechanic I'mlike does not compute.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Exactly Right and and that's what the way that your
brain is operating now, right,and imagine having those
in-depth conversations with thatmechanic or with a
mathematician when you were inthat post-concussive state,
right, and I don't mean this,people who are listening can't
see us just like smirking away.
We're just we're smirkingpretty hard here and I want to
(27:18):
say again I know it comes from,like you said, it's just, it's a
place of enthusiasm, it'ssharing, it's just, it's a place
of enthusiasm, it's sharing,it's passion and I love that and
you are one of my favoritetypes to work with Because you
know what you're describing.
It's actually so, so common andyou know that gives me actually
a lot of hope.
And around people who do treatthe concussion population,
because nowadays, especially inthe past five, six years, we've
seen a lot increased uptake inresearch, in discussion, in
(27:42):
funding, in so many, you knowuptake in research, in
discussion, in funding, in somany, you know people paving new
paths forward.
And so when I have the privilegeof working with various health
practitioners who serve thatpopulation and are excited and
lit up to educate and to talkabout what they're doing with
the person, that fuels me withhope, because it wasn't always
that way.
You know it's really what.
Even in the past 10 years,we've seen massive changes.
(28:04):
Let alone, you know, if wecontinue going decades back.
But where we're at right now, Ijust feel like we're.
It's so timely to be reallyempowering everyone to just
understand a bit about thebeneath the surface, the behind
the scenes of the experience, sothat we're able to continue,
you know, giving a new pathforward and helping people
recover.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Maybe it's more efficiently maybe it's more
effectively, etc.
Yeah, there's.
You know, there is a lot ofthought that could go into a lot
of the, the layout of even aclinic, and so, because I've had
my concussions and I've hadlight sensitivity and there's
certain backgrounds that I don'tlike, I completely understand
(28:46):
when people come into my officeand they say, hey, I need you to
dim the lights, I need you toturn off the white noise machine
.
Can we turn the blinds all theway up so that there's not this
contrast between the sky andthen the blackout curtains, Like
when people come into my office.
That's the kind of stuff that Ican completely jump on board
with because I'm I completelyunderstand it.
(29:08):
So there's certain things thatI'm good at, but then, like I
said, I'm like okay, I'mprobably not so good at the slow
down the talking.
Take some pauses, make surethat people are still with you.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Well, but I'm so glad that you're mentioning this
because it's it's so, it's socommon what you're saying with
experts in various spaces, justlike yourself, and you know what
you're describing.
I have so many thoughts.
I'm going to try to consolidatewhere we're going here in my
point.
But you know, with variouspatients or clients coming to
see you and asking for specificshifts in the physical
environment, that of course, ofcourse that would land and of
(29:47):
course then you're like, ofcourse I'll do this for you and
it makes sense for our treatmentor it doesn't, depending on how
you're treating.
I can't speak to that, but Ialso want to say that you know
when I.
Why I'm so lit up about servingpractitioners in this way is
because often, just you know,practitioners and expertise set
aside for a moment, we are alljust human and and so often as
humans, we just we look forvisual cues to help guide us,
(30:08):
whether we're in conversation orwe're doing an intake form or
anything like that, and this issomething also that I bring to
the attention of people that I,that I serve is just, you know,
in the concussion and PPCS,space masking is an incredibly
common activity that peopleengage in for a variety of
reasons, and when I say masking,I mean someone who's, you know,
maybe their brain, maybethey're not able to listen,
(30:31):
they're not following language,maybe they're in pain, maybe
their mind is, they're notfocusing, they're not paying
attention, the lightsdistracting, etc.
Etc.
Right, maybe they're not reallypresent, but externally they
might be just nodding along andsmiling, much like you and I are
right now on this conversation,right?
So I also really, you know,want to bring that in front of
people and say that that is whywhat I'm doing, I feel, is
(30:51):
really helping to pave a path bypartnering with professionals
and just really meetingprofessionals where they're at.
You know, it's when you are,when you have such a level of
expertise built in a field, likeyou said, you're not
necessarily thinking on thissort of micro step level, but
that's where I come in andthat's why it's so complimentary
(31:12):
for me to be able to bring thisin and, you know, help equip
you to continue really helpingpeople get where they need to be
.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, that's a really good point that you make.
So somebody could be noddingalong, acting like they're
completely engaged in whatyou're saying.
But the reality is that theymight be completely checked out
and their brain maybe just kindof shuts off in a moment or
they're too distracted by anoise or the lighting or all
that stuff.
And so I do often check in withmy patients when they come in
(31:40):
and I'm asking them do you wantthese lights off?
Do you want the shades up?
Do you want the music off?
Because I know that these arereally important things that
could completely derail atreatment.
If the entire time they're inthe room, they're uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and I'm so glad, like you know,
with your lived experience,you're already you know leaps
and bounds beyond perhaps apractitioner that hasn't had
that opportunity, should we say,to live the experience and to
know those things that you knowand you know.
I'll just share something thatcame to mind when you were
describing the environment andpatients or clients making
requests.
It takes me back a few years,so I want to separate this.
(32:17):
So, for my recovery, I attendedRMT sessions that were very
painful but necessary to helpget my back and neck in order.
Outside of that, I decided tobook myself a relaxation massage
at a nice spa a few years ago,and so I went in going to go do
my thing.
And I got in there and I waslaying down and you know, the
lights are dim and there wasmusic on, and that was at a
(32:38):
point when I was just reallyintolerant.
It was really, you know, notrelaxing for me, and so I'd
asked this, this practitioner,I'm like hey, do you mind
actually just turning the musicoff?
And she's like sure.
So she turned it down like acouple of levels and came back
and started going in.
I was like oops, nope, sorry,do you mind turning it off, off
so that there's no sound, andshe just couldn't cope with that
.
She's like what you don't wantsound, okay, like off.
(33:02):
So she turned it off and then Ithink she just felt weird and
that was her own journey.
Bless her heart.
But but to the point of, youknow that type of experience
very much.
A lot of patients who might havePPCS going in to see various
practitioners, they might beasking for things like that and
if the practitioner isn't, as Isay, concussion informed, they
may receive similar feedback.
(33:22):
And so, yeah, I just I justwanted to share that.
That's just an offshoot thatcame to mind and I was like,
yeah, this just kind of drivesthe point further.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, and in a lot of physical therapy clinics you've
got open therapy bays whereyou've got a lot of people all
kind of in one space together,and so I could also see in in
that sense that you know it canbe difficult when you're coming
in and there's all this kind ofcommotion going on around you.
I mean.
I know.
For me, I've never understoodhow anybody can take their
(33:52):
laptop to a coffee shop and getany kind of work done, because I
need, like complete silence andzero distraction in order to
focus.
I don't.
I don't need the opposite,which is people coming and going
and talking and music and thesound of the coffee machines.
I don't.
I don't need the opposite,which is people coming and going
and talking and music and thesound of the coffee machines.
I'm just like I don'tunderstand how that's even a
thing.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Let me ask you this Did you feel that way before
your injuries in the 2012 sortof to 2014 period?
Think about coffee shops.
Think about being at an eventor a concert or a busy
environment, traveling in anairplane think about those.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Well, so my first concussion was when I was 18.
And I got kicked in the head,and after that I had a change in
my hearing where it was reallyhard to hear other people in
busy environments.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
And I have a whole section of that in my book.
But so I think that I when Iwas younger I for sure hung out
at coffee shops, but I never.
I don't think I could everreally get much work done at a
coffee shop, and I also didn'tlove being in really loud, noisy
(35:00):
environments because I justcouldn't hear the people I was
with and it was always a littlefrustrating to be like what
would you say?
What'd you say, what?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah, I thank you for sharing that, and I know from
experience exactly what you'retalking about in terms of the
loud environment, and I wascurious, just, you know, being
that you had your firstconcussion at 18, of course,
that could have shifted somethings for you starting then,
but you know, being in a coffeeshop, that is something that I
have personally been veryaffected by as well, so I was
nodding away when you're sharingthis and this is something that
you know, I've sharedthroughout to every practitioner
(35:32):
I've ever worked with, tospeaking on podcasts, to working
with people one on one, to, youknow, bringing that into how I
teach now with practitioners aswell.
Coffee shops it's so funnybecause you're right, for some
people, they go and they read abook and it's an ideal
environment.
It's total chaos, if you ask me, but in my experience of this,
(35:56):
I'm kind of opposite from you.
So nowadays I mean, oh my gosh,since my injury, coffee shops
are not relaxing.
I can't hear, I can't focus.
It feels like overwhelmingchaos.
There's movement, there's sound, everything.
There's smell, right, like allthe senses are engaged.
However, in my before life, Iused to work in events, and so I
traveled.
Often.
Airplanes are very loud, by theway, I traveled often I was,
you know, being in a crowd of100,000 or 500,000 people was
(36:17):
very normal for me and I didexcel in that space.
That is when I focused my bestand I was a person in those days
where I constantly I mean Iworked remotely a lot of the
time.
So I was constantly working onairplanes, on trains, in coffee
shops, in restaurants, in themiddle of a 500,000 person event
.
So I had that experience where,for me, I was just that is
where I tapped in and I was mymost efficient.
(36:39):
I think like there's somethingto be said here about being an
A-type and, you know, inoverdrive, but that's a whole
other conversation.
So for me it's just been thismassive shift where now you
bring up coffee shops and likethat's a massive topic in my
personal life and my personalexperience.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, and for so long I didn't understand why I had
so much anxiety when I would say, go to a restaurant with a
group of people or, you know, aparty or whatever it was, where
there was just a lot of peopleand a lot of noise and a lot of
conversations.
So for the thing that you knowis I often am kind of stunned by
is the fact that when I hadpost-concussion syndrome, I
didn't know I hadpost-concussion syndrome.
I just knew I was struggling inlife and I didn't quite know
why until I had my light bulbmoment that went off.
(37:26):
And so for so long I justdidn't know why I felt anxious
and uncomfortable in my own skin.
And then, obviously, once Irecognized what was going on and
I was like, oh aha, this allmakes sense.
I just remember very clearly mysister and I went to New Orleans
in 2021 for a little sistergetaway vacation and we were
(37:48):
walking down Bourbon Street on aSaturday night and I was
walking down the street and Iwas like, yeah, I mean, we're
talking 10 years or more of notbeing comfortable in busy
environments and avoidingconcerts and avoiding crowds and
(38:10):
avoiding, you know, state fairsand avoiding all that stuff.
And then to be able to walkdown Bourbon Street and feel
relaxed in my own skin on aSaturday night.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Okay, I have goosebumps, I genuinely do,
because what you're sharing likeit's still it's still really
strikes a chord with me.
I can still.
I feel what you're feeling.
I feel what you're describing.
That is massive and if somebodyhasn't lived the experience
that you have, with yourmultiple concussions, especially
in a short period of time andPPCS, or the PPCS I experienced,
they wouldn't quite grasp that.
But that alone, I mean justlike it's probably one of the
(38:43):
most chaotic environments youcould ever paint to drop into.
So so that's huge and, ofcourse, it stands out to you as
this, this flashbulb memory ofaha.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yeah, it was kind of a victory moment.
Not that I need to be onBourbon street frequently, but
let's be clear Ayla does do someincredible work.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
She's not always on Bourbon street.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Yeah.
So I mean, I think, too, somepeople start to feel hopeless.
They feel like, oh, is thisever going to get better?
And for me, you know, I had twoconcussions that were 10 days
apart, maybe in 2012.
, and then another one in 2013.
Then I had one in 2018.
And I actually just hit my headtwo months ago and I had
(39:24):
symptoms for 10 days.
And so, again, it's like peopleoften have this sense of
hopelessness, and sometimes it'snice to hear that for me, I
don't feel like I'm missing outon life by not going to concerts
and events and I'm such anintrovert that I don't feel like
I'm missing out but to be ableto have the flexibility to be
(39:48):
okay in those environments if Ifind myself in them, that's
important to me, and so it tooka very long time, but it was
like, hey, I made it, ithappened.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
It's a massive moment of triumph.
I hope you found some way tocelebrate it, or I did, I'm sure
you did too.
You know to your point of thehopelessness piece that that is
huge in the space of PPCS, andyou know living that myself.
So again, I will just kind ofremind for our listeners that
(40:21):
you know I have always had thisraise my hand and say I am high
achiever, I'm a type A, I'm highfunctioning, I, you know, I'm a
lifelong leader and learner.
Like this has really been mypersonality forever really.
And so for me to live like thatand you know, whenever
previously I came up against astruggle or something and I was
like, well, I'll push through,well, I'll make it through, well
(40:49):
, I'll learn my way through,well, I'll just do it Right and
so for me to experiencesomething like PPCS where I was
completely pulled completelyfrom under me you know living
this.
I remember this time where, thistime in my life I should say
where I was in a time in my lifewhere a lot of people around me
, whether it was friends orcommunities, et cetera, et
cetera, people were movingforward.
They were hitting thesestereotypical trajectory or
milestones, you know buyingplaces, traveling to certain
areas getting married, havingkids, like this whole type of
(41:10):
you know transition washappening.
But for me, you know, with thatpersonality described, where I
was at in my life is boilingwater and frying an egg at the
same time, the same time.
The level of multitaskinginvolved in that took me months
to be able to to get into sothat I can complete that type of
task successfully.
So when you talk about you knowfacing hopelessness, I mean
(41:34):
from from my own experience thatthe worst thing in the world
was just not having an end date,because I think you you
definitely relate with this.
I'm just going to make thatsweeping assumption that you are
a goal oriented person and youknow you work towards goals,
you're high achieving, you knowyou want to continue that
momentum and know where you'regoing and know what the
trajectory is like.
But all of a sudden, when youfind yourself in a position
where you do not have yourcognitive wherewithal, you do
(41:55):
not have an understanding ofwhat's even happening or maybe
all the ways you're struggling,you do know that you're not
yourself anymore and you don'thave an end date in sight, that
is extraordinarily confronting.
And so, whether it's myexperience or again what I've
just heard from hundreds ofpeople over the years.
That is a very, that's a hugepiece and that's what really,
you know, pulls at myheartstrings.
(42:16):
And that's initially when Istarted serving one-to-one,
because I know that what I referto stuckness in the work that I
do, that in PPCS people can hita certain point of stuckness
and I also, unsurprisingly,specialize in working with
personalities like my own, thelifelong leaders and learners,
the high achievers, because Iunderstand that that personality
(42:36):
type process is that type ofloss in a very specific way.
So, you know, my heart is in itand even to this day, I
consistently receive referralsand I'm so deeply grateful, you
know, for people to be willingto reach out or to have their
contact information passed on,etc.
But I feel that I want tocreate systemic change that then
trickles down and affectseverybody positively.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, that's incredible and it pulls on my
heartstrings too, as somebodywho practices traditional East
Asian medicine.
I have a lot of otherpractitioners that are in my
profession who have hadconcussions and then had, and
then reached out to me and, youknow, asked me to help them.
And so it's, you know when,when I'm seeing a fellow
(43:23):
colleague who's now facing thethat kind of fear of when am I
going to get better, when am Igoing to be able to return back
to work, if at all?
I mean, I really viscerallyfeel that because I know what
that's like.
And there was, you know, therewas a point where I could only
see about two patients a day andthat was as much as I could
tolerate and, uh, so I know, Iknow what that feels like and
(43:47):
it's scary terrifying.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
It's like there's this I often talk about this and
I'm going to take us here.
Let me know if you'd like tostay or move elsewhere, but you
know what I really often talkabout because I think it's so
important in terms of justreally facilitating a greater
understanding of PPCS.
There is is the you know, thehigh level.
There's the high level pieces.
This is the physical struggle.
(44:09):
This is not being able to work,this is not being yourself
anymore, not volunteering, notbeing in community, for example,
that you know others are ableto more easily perceive not
always, sometimes.
But then there's also the secondlevel that I describe in the
PPCS journey and that reallythat is a deeply profound
experience that a lot of peoplego through, which is being
ripped away from a sense of self.
You know it's like people talkabout not defining yourself by
(44:36):
external factors, but I thinkthat a lot of people do, whether
intentionally or not, and whenyou have all these external
factors suddenly ripped awayfrom you, including your
cognitive wherewithal, who areyou Right?
And like the whole, the wholerest of that, like that's also.
You know, my heart is inserving people one-to-one,
because I understand that.
I've lived it, but I also havemade it through.
(44:56):
I also have strategies.
I also can engage inconversations that help people
find a way to introspect and tomove through that piece, because
losing a sense of who you wereis just it's very hard to put
into words.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah, and I think that that deep kind of spiritual
journey is not often part ofthe conversation in healthcare
at all.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Oh, absolutely, it's, yeah, and to an extent, I mean,
I do understand.
If you know, healthcare tendsto be fairly, fairly siloed.
Right, we have experts inspecific places and we need and
want them there and that's whatthey handle.
But in traditional medicalEastern medicine, of course,
what you practice is verydifferent Eastern medicine and
maybe blending into spiritualityand other holistic spaces, but
(45:39):
traditional, that's not covered.
So that's one of the massivegaps that I saw in the space,
just someone who you knowunderstood my entire experience,
the whole thing.
And how do I move through onthe whole piece?
Because, in my opinion andagain based on myself and based
on hundreds of other people thathave been sharing pain points
and challenges, these two areinterconnected at some point in
time, right, Absolutely,absolutely.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
And I'm curious now that you're six years out.
You said that you used to bevery athletic.
Do you still exercise, or doyou have certain hobbies now
that keep you physically active,that that you're able to do?
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah, so I'm actually I'm so proud of myself.
It took me years to get back to, um, these very intense, um,
heated HIIT workouts that I doget back to these very intense,
heated HIIT workouts that I do.
I was practicing that way.
Practicing I mean I was workingout in that way for many years.
I had this injury and I mean Ihad a whole myriad of struggles.
(46:38):
I mean anything from my leftsand rights being confused to
heart rate variability, issues,to just so many things that
prevented me, not to mentionneck and back injuries and other
you know, chronic fatigue andother pieces.
It was a whole mess.
I couldn't do it.
It took me years.
I have been pushing towardsgetting back.
I'm now in the exact sameworkouts that I used to do,
which gives me so much joy andso much pride.
And you know, like anytimeyou're in that room, I I just
(47:00):
like look at myself in themirror and I just genuinely feel
so deeply proud because I am aperson who does bear those
emotional scars and I still workthrough some parts that are
challenging for me.
Yet I show up and I'm there andmy body shows up for me.
I show up for myself and youknow I'm putting, I'm like, I
was gonna say like and I'mputting muscle on, which sounds
so funny.
This is my inner dialogue.
(47:20):
We just had an indoor thoughtescape outdoors and it's OK
funny.
This is my inner dialogue.
We just had an indoor thought,escape outdoors.
But I mean, that's part of it,right, like, it's like feeling
good, it's that energy, it's,it's yeah, it's so.
That is something I'm reallyhappy with.
Um, again, in means of myvulnerability, I will also share
that I am back and I am capableof being in that room.
But I will say that in theparticular studio that I work at
(47:44):
and work out at sorry, not workat the studio that I work out
at, um, there, you know, there'speople with a variety of um.
You know people in a variety oflike, whether it's health space
or fitness level.
It's just a mix of people.
I will say that I still dostruggle with heart rate
variability, um, that has notfully resolved.
And so with certain movementswhere my hands are, you know, at
(48:06):
shoulder height or above myhead, my heart absolutely races
and then all of a sudden, veryquickly, I'm on the brink of
either passing out or throwingup, to be very honest with you,
and so that I wanted to sharethat, because I am the only
person, consistently for variousparts of that class, who drops
down to her knees to try tomanage my heart rate a bit,
(48:26):
whereas everyone of all thesevarying levels, everyone is
standing, everyone's completingthe workout standing.
So for me, it's also very clearto me that this is an example of
you know, I'm able to be there,I'm so proud, I'm getting a
great workout, I'm having thebest sweat of my life every time
I go and I'm so proud, but I'mstill not quite at my normal or
even at an a usual expectationfor the class.
(48:47):
So, anyway, that I just want toshare that piece physically and
there's more what I'm doingphysically, but yeah, well, no,
I mean, that has to be such agood feeling to know that you
can get back and, even if youhave to make some modifications,
the fact that you're back, andthat shows that there's still
more that can be done.
Absolutely, that's exactly it.
(49:07):
It's just, it's justopportunity for continued growth
, for continued improvement.
That's exactly it.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Is there anything else that you want to share in
terms of what you're doing asfar as the work you're doing
with chiropractic clinics andphysical therapy clinics and
kind of these concussion rehabspecialty clinics?
And you mentioned somethingabout a community forum.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yeah, so thank you for bringing this up.
So right now, as I mentioned,I'm teaching educational
workshops to variouspractitioners various
practitioners like on anindividual level, as well as
concussion clinics, rehabclinics.
I've actually had a coupleeducational institutions reach
out to me, which is reallyinteresting angle to think about
.
So that's kind of in the works,and what I'm also building is
(49:50):
an online learning community forprofessionals.
So this is a space that willcontain things like, you know,
preloaded video content,potentially mini courses, you
know, discussion forum,one-on-ones with me, ebooks,
this kind of material, and it'sreally designed specifically for
practitioners who treat theconcussion space, which you know
(50:10):
could be anything from a doctor, a neurologist, occupational
therapist, kinesiologist, andthen you know, all these
different, various hands-onbody-based treatment providers.
Generally, these people havepretty tight schedules and so
it's meant to be a resource thatthey can just pop into, grab a
resource and go, and so thatthat is, you know, coming down
the pipeline.
I'm very excited about buildingthat out.
(50:31):
That will be launching, youknow, this year, ideally in
summer, but we're going to sayTVC, because I have a few other
things in the works too.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Okay, and then when you're talking to these clinics,
is that also like live, I meanlike through Zoom or is that
pre-recorded videos that peopleare watching?
Speaker 2 (50:49):
So currently I'm presenting in a live fashion.
I am presenting virtually live.
If a clinic is interested in anin-person presentation, that's
something we're definitely ableto talk about.
I'm in talks with two clinicsright now about an in-person
just their own preference versusothers?
Sure, yeah, and that's how.
I'm in talks with two clinicsright now about an in-person
just their own preference versusothers.
Sure, yeah, and that's that'show I'm currently showing up.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Awesome.
And then where can people findyou and all of these resources?
Speaker 2 (51:11):
So my website is wwwreturntolifeca spelled
traditionally.
I believe it will be in theshow notes as well.
You're also welcome to find meon LinkedIn.
My name is Chandani Khan.
I would love to connect withyou to share more resources
there and, if you'd like to sendme an email, I'm always open to
hearing from you knowpractitioners or people with
(51:32):
PPCS or someone who's outside ofthe space and maybe wants to
talk about a various type ofcollaboration.
My email is hello atreturntolifeca.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Perfect, I'll definitely put all that in the
show notes.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on the show, and I
definitely want to do this againin the future.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Thank you so much for having me.
This was a really greatconversation.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
I'm very excited for your book, thank you, should be
out next week, so I will let youknow as soon as it's available.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I will put all yourcontact information with your
LinkedIn, your website.
Do you want me to do yourInstagram?
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Let's throw it on there.
That's, you know, need to givemy Instagram some love, but
there is some content on there.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Okay, great.
I know what that feels like.
You know it's hard to beeverywhere all at once.
Yes, just yes, hard stop, yep,excellent.
Well, I'll put all that inthere and thank you so much.
This has been great.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Thank you, I'll talk to you again soon.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Medical disclaimer.
This video or podcast is forgeneral informational purposes
only and does not constitute thepractice of medicine or other
professional health careservices, including the giving
of medical advice.
No doctor-patient relationshipis formed.
The use of this information andmaterials included is at the
(52:57):
user's own risk.
The content of this video orpodcast is not intended to be a
substitute for medical advice,diagnosis or treatment, and
consumers of this informationshould seek the advice of a
medical professional for any andall health related issues.
A link to our full medicaldisclaimer is available in the
notes.
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