January 2, 2026 • 29 mins
What if the real shift so many feel isn’t about louder headlines, but about a quieter, deeper maturity taking root in people who carry the presence of God? We open the conversation by naming the problem with extremes—prophecy charts on one side, vague spirituality on the other—and make the case for a balanced, Scripture-wide view of the Kingdom. Instead of arguing over timelines, we focus on formation: the Kingdom within becoming visible without through a people who reflect Jesus in character, not just in claims.
From there, we get practical. How do you handle lies and misrepresentation without becoming bitter? We walk through a relational path to identity, where God defines who we are and maturity is measured by Christ’s nature shining through us. We share a framework for spiritual warfare that is sober and simple: bring false words before God, refuse agreement, and keep moving in love. Then we tackle discernment with encounters. Scripture tells us to test the spirits, and we dig into Revelation to show why God welcomes wise caution. A personal story related to David illustrates how to weigh experiences under the authority of Jesus and the witness of the Word.
We also explore the restoration of the tabernacle of David with fresh clarity. David’s tent wasn’t a final destination but a transitional piece in God’s larger architecture, pointing forward to a people formed by covenant mercy, worship, and a heart made whole in relationship. A powerful insight from Hebrews reframes worship as Jesus singing in the midst of the congregation—an atmosphere where pride yields, repentance flows, and authority is laid down like crowns at His feet. By the end, you’ll have a grounded vision for what this Kingdom shift looks like: balanced theology, tested spirituality, resilient identity, and worship where Christ truly leads.
If this conversation helps you think, pray, or worship differently, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review with one insight that changed you. Your voice helps others find the show and join the journey.
Loving Yeshua/Jesus, Loving people... Come as you are and you will be loved!
Feel free to check out our website by typing in lifearoundthefire.com or Life Around The Fire ... We think you'll find some beneficial stuff to look at and apply to your life.
Shalom to you and your home.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
All right, folks, welcome back.
We're in the studio today withDr.
Bill Hurst.
And as I said before, it isreally it's just always a
privilege and a delight to haveDr.
Bill come in because God useshim.
Plain simple.
He is a conduit and God useshim.
And we we're gonna do kind of aQ ⁇ A time right now where I'm
(01:07):
gonna ask Dr.
Bill a couple questions and thenhe's gonna take as much time as
he wants to or needs to inanswering them.
But let me kind of set the tablea little bit, alright, Doctor?
Mm-hmm.
Okay, question number one, orstatement number one.
My observation is spirituallyspeaking, and kingdom of God
(01:27):
speaking, we're in a major shiftor a transitional time in which
the kingdom of God's always athand, but there's a movement
going on.
It has been going on for someyears now in our time.
But God is sovereign and goingto be manifesting his glory and
(01:52):
he's preparing us for something.
It has been.
SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
And what what is your observation as as from the
from your vantage point?
Apostolically speaking orprophetically, at whatever level
you you come at it, what what'syour what's your advantage?
What's your viewpoint?
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
Well, first of all, we have tried to conglomerate,
if I can use that as a word, wecould we have tried to
conglomerate and put all theviews into one view.
And here's here's what I talkedabout the other day.
There are many theories floatingaround the body of Christ about
(02:34):
the end time and the coming ofour Lord Jesus Christ.
Number one, pre-tribulationrapture.
Number two, mid-tribulationrapture.
Number three, post-tribulationrapture or premillennialism.
Then there's post-millennial,millennialism, and there's all
millennialism.
All millennial really have tostretch things, but they say
(02:57):
we're in the millennium now.
My statement on that is if ifthe devil is bound, because he's
supposed to be bound for themillennial reign, please don't
lose him.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
Because if this is bound.
SPEAKER_02 (03:16):
Now each of them taken by themselves, and by
excluding a few other balancingscriptures can be proven to be
true.
So here's the question.
If God allowed that to happen,and they can be seemingly proven
with excluding a few scriptures,would not the truth be a balance
(03:40):
of all of those scriptures?
And so I begin to seek God forbalance.
And I think that's what we needto do today.
We are living in a world whereextremes are being magnified.
That's so true.
Whether it's right or left,whether it's woke or sleep, it's
whichever one of those it is,each of them is being magnified.
(04:04):
When the truth is a balance, anda balance is right down the
middle.
And God is wanting to raise up apeople of balance in this hour.
Now, about the shift.
I really believe that the shiftstarted maybe a year and a half
to two years ago.
In fact, I think that's when theLord spoke to me that we were
(04:26):
entering into another time.
Now, there are those out therethat say we're in the first one
of the horses of the apocalypseand so on.
I don't I don't I don't gothere.
But I think what we're in is thesetting of the stage so he can
bring in the kingdom.
Remember this there's going tobe a people manifesting the
(04:47):
kingdom before the tribulationstarts.
Okay?
And so my focus is to press intothe kingdom so that the kingdom
that was in is within begins tomanifest without, and people see
the kingdom of God in reality ina people that God can do
(05:08):
everything he said he'd do inme.
And that's the kingdom.
The kingdom of God is withinyou.
Now, notice he didn't say thekingdom of heaven is within you.
We won't go there today.
But there's a difference betweenthe kingdom of God and the
kingdom of heaven.
Okay?
(05:28):
But we are in a shift where Godis actively setting the stage
for the kingdom.
A couple of years ago, well,quite a number of years ago, I
guess it was, God spoke to meand he said, Bill, he said, I
want you to write from the whatwe've always called the Lord's
(05:49):
Prayer, and I want you to setthe stage for thy kingdom come
on earth as it is in heaven.
And so that has developed into aseries of courses being written.
The first one being, Thy kingdomcome, a New Testament survey,
but only focusing on thekingdom.
And I'll tell you I found somany things that we've not
(06:12):
talked about as the kingdom.
Because remember, Jesus said tothe disciples, the kingdom of
God is at hand.
Then he said, The kingdom of Godis within you, and then he left
them to begin to set the stagefor the kingdom.
So somewhere in there is thebalance of truth, and God is
(06:32):
getting ready to bring it intomanifestation.
It has taken him almost 2,000years to begin to bring forth a
mature people, to restore thechurch so that they could hear
maturity.
Kingdom reality is maturity.
(06:53):
Next question.
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Next question, please.
Hallelujah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Next question or next scenariois this.
I've had people.
Can you believe it?
I've actually had people lieabout me.
About me.
(07:14):
Yeah.
I've had people lie about me.
They've said lies about me.
And they told these lies toother people.
And uh have you ever had thathappen to you?
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
Uh, only about three times in the last two years.
SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
Only about three.
Oh, that's that's that's fair.
How do you navigate throughpeople lying about you?
SPEAKER_02 (07:34):
Well, first of all, you've got to be established in
the truth of who you are.
That only comes throughrelationships.
Only God knows who I am.
Only by relating to him does heshare with me who I am.
Not where I am in my maturity,but who I'm called to be.
(07:56):
And after that, he does show mewhere I am in maturity.
Let me say this.
Some years ago, back in 1981-82,God began to download, we had
just come back from Christiancommunity, God began to download
to me a whole series of chartsto maturity.
(08:16):
And when I got to the onegrowing up into him and all
things is what I've called it,where it talks about babes,
children, young men, andfathers.
When he took me there and gaveme the outline to study, I found
out I was not as mature as Ithought I was.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
Yeah, there we go.
SPEAKER_02 (08:34):
And you cannot grow on to maturity till you realize
the state of maturity you're at.
So when I thought I was a youngman, I actually found out I was
a child.
But with that, with with myvision corrected and my
definitions corrected, I've beenable to grow to a level of
(08:54):
maturity.
I'm not fully matured yetbecause I'm not manifesting what
full maturity is.
But I'm more, I'm closer tomaturity and more mature in my k
in the character and nature ofJesus Christ in my life than I
have ever been.
That is maturity.
Not gifts, not ministry, notsigns and wonders.
(09:16):
But the character and nature ofJesus Christ shining out through
me is the true level of mymaturity.
So when people lie about me,when they say things about me, I
rest in who he says I am.
I take that back to him.
Remember that he said, No weaponformed against you shall
(09:37):
prosper, and every tongue thatshall rise against you in
judgment, thou shalt condemn.
Now it doesn't mean you damnthem, it doesn't mean you curse
them, it means you declare themwrong before the throne of God.
What you let stand remains.
Oh, that's good.
Well Okay.
But if I declare them wrongbefore the heavenlies, where the
(09:58):
battle is, then they have nomore power over me.
So I declare some of thosethings wrong that have been said
about me, and they do not affectme.
SPEAKER_00 (10:11):
Next.
Mm-hmm.
Oh great.
You gave me a give me a coollook there, and I had a good
look, and I that was that was uhYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Well, since we're talking aboutthat type of thing, or I brought
it up.
I'm gonna go here then.
I I've understood that you'vehad some unique experiences in
(10:33):
your life.
SPEAKER_02 (10:34):
I have.
SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
Very, very unique.
And unique in the sense thatthey're spiritually powerful,
moving.
And one of them happens uh dealswith King David.
SPEAKER_02 (10:47):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
And you I wanna I wanna uh because I like you and
I love you, and I wanna I wannaclarify something.
Word on street had that uh youyou kind of talk to the dead.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
Well, first of all.
Jesus said God is not the God ofthe dead, but of the living.
Okay?
And he was referring to Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob.
But that being that as it may,let's go, first of all, to a
(11:27):
scripture in Revelation.
And I I want to go there becauseJohn had an experience in which
he thought he was talking toJesus.
And it turned out it wasn't.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:45):
And so, first of all, let me say this any
visitation from any angel orfrom anyone must be challenged
with whom do you, in the name ofthe Lord Jesus Christ, the
uncreated one, we command you totell us whom you serve.
Yep.
Okay?
Yep.
(12:05):
And that doesn't matter how manytimes you've had visitation or
how many times you have hadencounters.
We need to challenge theencounter.
Because remember, the the singoes about as a roaring lion
seeking whom he did may devour,but he also goes about as an
angel of light.
SPEAKER_00 (12:23):
You're saying that God does not get offended if you
challenge whether or not it'sfrom him or not.
SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
He does.
He gets offended if you don't.
Okay.
Because he's the one that said,try the spirits to see whether
they be of God or not.
And so what I want to do for amoment is bring my Bible up here
on my computer, go to the bookof the Revelation of Jesus
Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Love it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:48):
And go to chapter, I think it's chapter 19.
We will find out here.
It's not doing what I want it todo, so let me get it here.
SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
As you're looking at that, I want to uh encourage
those who are listening ifyou've had some unique
experiences, what Dr.
Bill just mentioned aboutchallenging whether or not those
things are from God, it's a realword of wisdom, and also it's a
point of clarificationconcerning this visitation that
(13:33):
you had, Doctor, concerningDavid, and that you actually did
that very thing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:38):
Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
In Revelation 19, 9, and he saith unto me, this is
the one that was talking withhim, right?
Blessed are they which arecalled unto the marriage supper
of the Lamb, and he saith untome, These are the true sayings
of God.
Here's John's reaction.
Remembering that John had metJesus in his glorified form in
(14:03):
chapter 1 through 3, had hadspoken to him, had heard from
him directly, directly from hismouth, had seen him in chapter 4
on the throne, and so on.
Here's what John said.
And I fell at his feet toworship him, and he said unto
me, See thou do it not.
(14:24):
I am thy servant, thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the
prophet uh thy brethren thathave the testimony of Jesus.
Worship God, for the testimonyof Jesus is the spirit of
prophecy.
But wait a minute.
John knew you were only supposedto worship Jesus.
But why do you fall at the feetof this one?
(14:47):
Who was not an angel, but one ofthe brethren.
So, you know, scripture says,out of the mouth of two or three
witnesses, let a word beestablished, right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:01):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (15:02):
So then we should look at a second witness, you
think?
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
Sure, why not?
SPEAKER_02 (15:08):
Chapter 2 and verse 8.
John didn't learn the firsttime.
No.
Okay.
And John and I John saw thesethings and heard them.
When I heard them and seen, Ifell down at to worship before
the feet of the angel.
This looked to him like anangel, which showed me these
things.
(15:28):
And he said unto me, See thou doit not, for I'm thy fellow
servant, and of thy brethren theprophets, and of them that keep
the sayings of this book,worship God.
So now we have to discernwhether it's an angel of light,
(15:49):
whether it's Jesus, or whetherit's from the cloud of
witnesses.
So I woke up one morning, orwoke up in the middle of the
night, and I see this mist in myroom.
And I said, My first thing was,God, what is this?
Remembering I've only probablyhad one visitation, and that was
(16:12):
as Jesus as the chief shepherdin my first pastorate back in
1971.
Okay?
So that was my last rememberedvisitation.
God may bring some that I've hadthat I don't remember.
I don't know.
But that was my last one.
I challenged that one.
(16:34):
And obviously it was the Lord.
So it came to this, and I said,Lord, what is it?
You know, in Jesus' name, whatis it?
Who are you?
And I heard in my spirit this isthe essence of David.
And then I heard the Holy Spiritsay, Get up and walk through
(16:55):
that essence, and I will impartto you something of his uh
essence and his spirit.
When I did that, I went back andlaid down, woke up in the
morning, but had the theexperience was as if I'd never
slept, never gone back to sleep.
(17:16):
So I told my wife, and we beganto pray into it and say, Lord,
what are you trying to teach us?
Here's what I heard.
You can think I'm radical, youcan think I'm way out there, but
David gave me permission, allright?
Permission, right?
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (17:30):
And so I said, Lord, I don't know anything about
David.
Now, what I didn't realize anddidn't put together till after
even this visitation was thatthe theme of my life and my
ministry has been that of David.
My doctoral thesis was on David.
And so I knew probably moreabout his life than any other
(17:52):
Old Testament figure.
But I didn't snap to thatunderstanding of that till
later.
And so the first thing the Lorddid is he said, Bill, remember,
in Revelation 5 and 10, the fourbeasts, the 24 elders, before
the throne, they sing in inverse 10, We praise thee, O God,
(18:18):
for thou hast made us kings andpriests unto our God.
And we shall reign on the earth.
He says, We these were redeemedfrom among men.
So those 24 elders, the fourbeasts, are of typology of
redeemed creatures.
So I said, Well, Lord, but whatis this?
He said, I want to take you andbegin to teach you the
(18:41):
principles of David's coming tothe throne experientially.
I don't know that trip, folks.
I don't know that journey.
But remember, the Holy Spirithas come to lead me and to guide
me into the experiencing of alltruth.
Now that truth is not the wholebook, the whole of scripture.
(19:02):
That truth is what he speaks tome in relationship.
Anything he speaks to me inrelationship, I can pray and ask
the Holy Spirit to lead me intoit.
I do not presume to know what itmeans.
I do not presume to know how todo it, but I can trust the Holy
Spirit to bring me there.
(19:23):
There's more around that, but Ifeel to just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amen.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I've been wanting to dothis for a while, and I just you
know, it's uh it's so true.
Let it let it let another mansay your compliments, right?
Right.
So that's what I'm doing.
Uh so that's my story, and I'msticking to it.
So last question or scenario isthis.
(19:53):
I've been hearing a lot of talkabout the tabernacle of David.
SPEAKER_02 (19:56):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:57):
And the restoration of the tabernacle of David and
worship and all that goes alongwith that.
SPEAKER_02 (20:03):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
What say you about that?
SPEAKER_02 (20:08):
Well, first of all, remember that the tabernacle of
Moses and the Tabernacle ofDavid were transition
tabernacles.
Many are talking about therestoration of the tabernacle of
David as it as if it is thefinal vessel of expression.
(20:30):
But God gave David the patternfor Solomon's temple, what we
call Solomon's Temple.
David, God was the architect,David was the drawing mechanism,
and Solomon was the big.
So the journey of God is fromthe tabernacle of Moses through
(20:51):
the tabernacle of David to theTemple of Solomon.
Because in the book ofRevelation, chapter 21, or 20,
21, and 22, the tabernacle, orthe it's not referred to as a
tabernacle, it's referred to asthe temple.
The temple then becomes theinterpreter of the types and
(21:12):
shadows of the Temple ofSolomon.
Remember, God blessed, by theway, you never hear of the
manifest presence being inDavid's tabernacle.
That is significant.
You hear of it being in thetabernacle of Moses, you hear of
(21:33):
it being in the Temple ofSolomon.
But I don't think you seeanywhere, unless God corrects me
in the days to come, anywhereclearly of it being in the
tabernacle of David, althoughDavid experienced the presence
of God there.
But we're not told that ittotally overshadowed it.
It may just have been Davidexperiencing the presence.
(21:56):
Okay?
So I do not claim for Scripturewhat it doesn't claim for
itself.
It's dangerous to get out inthat territory.
Okay?
But the tabernacle of David ismore than just worship.
The tabernacle of David, Godsaid to David, I'm going to
build you a house.
The house of David is more thana tent.
(22:19):
The house of David was acovenant with David.
It was a covenant of restoringhis level of relationship with
God to a people.
And when God said, I'm going togive you the sure mercies of
David, that is more than justworship.
And so what the when God raisesup the tabernacle of David, and
(22:42):
I believe it's part of theshift.
The emphasis will be worship.
Oh, let me give you one morescripture.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
Yeah, please.
SPEAKER_02 (22:50):
Let me mess you up a bit.
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
Please do.
SPEAKER_02 (22:52):
Okay.
Turn to Hebrews.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Hebrews.
SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
I call it the coffee book, because Hebrews.
SPEAKER_00 (22:59):
Hebrews coffee.
You gotta be Canadian for thatone, man.
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
So what we see in Hebrews is a very, very
interesting scripture.
In fact, I where was I?
I can't even remember when itwhen it was.
I ministered on it the otherday.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
But in let me go get the Bible program up here.
Back to Hebrews.
SPEAKER_00 (23:36):
Hebrews two.
Hebrews two.
SPEAKER_02 (23:42):
Very interesting scripture because it's the
context is Jesus.
Okay.
The context is Jesus speaking.
So let's go down.
Come on now.
Come on.
Give me a hard time.
SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (24:18):
I can see hers too.
He talks about being in themidst of the church, will I sing
praise unto thee?
Right.
I thought maybe I'd mark it.
And probably just because I'mtrying to find it quickly, I
can't find it.
(24:40):
But here's here's what he says.
I think it's found in chaptertwo.
But he says that in the midst,this is Jesus speaking, in the
(25:02):
midst of the church will I singpraise unto thee.
It's Jesus speaking.
The tabernacle of David is thereturn of Jesus singing in
worship to his father.
(25:22):
Let me say that again.
The worship element of thetabernacle of David is Jesus
singing praise to his father inthe midst of the congregation.
Out of that comes a repentantheart.
Out of that comes a coming to aperfect heart.
(25:44):
Because remember, God'stestimony of David after he died
was that he had a perfect heart.
That was under the old covenant.
That was under the law.
That came through relationship,not obedience to the law,
because David broke the lawmultiple times, and God
mitigated the consequences sothat he didn't die.
SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
Now that's a whole nother but the fact of the
matter being, Jesus, like theydid at the Mount of Olives prior
to his going into prayer, wasthey worship, they sang a hymn
to the Father.
Yep.
And Jesus singing in our midstis an experience that I long for
(26:35):
to see that manifest.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
I've seen it once or twice in my whole lifetime,
sixty years of ministry.
But if he did it once, he'll doit again.
Till there comes a point in timewhere every worship service
Jesus sings to the Fatherthrough his people.
(27:01):
But also I believe it'spossible, because I've we had it
in Bible school once or twice,where he sings and we hear it.
You hear it.
Everyone else in thecongregation is quiet and he
sings.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
You know, we could do this, and maybe one day we
will do it for a couple hours,but time has come, my brother.
Time has come for us to closeoff this particular episode.
But before we do, would youplease pray?
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
Father, we do not exalt experiences.
We exalt Jesus.
SPEAKER_01 (27:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:42):
And we freely admit we do not fully know how to do
that yet.
But your Holy Spirit is leadingus and guiding us into maturity
in worship.
Father, we long for the day whenwe understand what it means to
fully cast our crowns at yourfeet, to know our authority, to
(28:04):
know our maturity, and then tohumbly lay it down at your feet,
giving all glory and honor toyou.
We're asking that you lead usinto that level of truth where
people see our good works andglorify our Father which is in
heaven without any prompting.
Thank you.
Only you can do that.
We ask that you would in yourprecious name.
(28:26):
Amen.
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
Thank you, my brother, so much.
And uh, you are welcome hereanytime.
You are a welcome guest and acontributor to what's going on
around the nations.
And folks, we uh we we love you.
And if you have any thoughts,questions, concerns, please feel
(28:50):
free to drop us a line at lifearound the fire at gmail.com.
Excuse me.
That's our email address or typein Life Around the Fire and look
us up on the web.
We would love to hear from you.
In the meantime, God bless you.
Adios, amigos.
All right, folks, welcome back.
We're in the studio today withDr.
Bill Hurst.
And as I said before, it isreally it's just always a
privilege and a delight to haveDr.
Bill come in because God useshim.
Plain simple.
He is a conduit and God useshim.
And we we're gonna do kind of aQ ⁇ A time right now where I'm
(01:07):
gonna ask Dr.
Bill a couple questions and thenhe's gonna take as much time as
he wants to or needs to inanswering them.
But let me kind of set the tablea little bit, alright, Doctor?
Mm-hmm.
Okay, question number one, orstatement number one.
My observation is spirituallyspeaking, and kingdom of God
(01:27):
speaking, we're in a major shiftor a transitional time in which
the kingdom of God's always athand, but there's a movement
going on.
It has been going on for someyears now in our time.
But God is sovereign and goingto be manifesting his glory and
(01:52):
he's preparing us for something.
It has been.
SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
And what what is your observation as as from the
from your vantage point?
Apostolically speaking orprophetically, at whatever level
you you come at it, what what'syour what's your advantage?
What's your viewpoint?
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
Well, first of all, we have tried to conglomerate,
if I can use that as a word, wecould we have tried to
conglomerate and put all theviews into one view.
And here's here's what I talkedabout the other day.
There are many theories floatingaround the body of Christ about
(02:34):
the end time and the coming ofour Lord Jesus Christ.
Number one, pre-tribulationrapture.
Number two, mid-tribulationrapture.
Number three, post-tribulationrapture or premillennialism.
Then there's post-millennial,millennialism, and there's all
millennialism.
All millennial really have tostretch things, but they say
(02:57):
we're in the millennium now.
My statement on that is if ifthe devil is bound, because he's
supposed to be bound for themillennial reign, please don't
lose him.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
Because if this is bound.
SPEAKER_02 (03:16):
Now each of them taken by themselves, and by
excluding a few other balancingscriptures can be proven to be
true.
So here's the question.
If God allowed that to happen,and they can be seemingly proven
with excluding a few scriptures,would not the truth be a balance
(03:40):
of all of those scriptures?
And so I begin to seek God forbalance.
And I think that's what we needto do today.
We are living in a world whereextremes are being magnified.
That's so true.
Whether it's right or left,whether it's woke or sleep, it's
whichever one of those it is,each of them is being magnified.
(04:04):
When the truth is a balance, anda balance is right down the
middle.
And God is wanting to raise up apeople of balance in this hour.
Now, about the shift.
I really believe that the shiftstarted maybe a year and a half
to two years ago.
In fact, I think that's when theLord spoke to me that we were
(04:26):
entering into another time.
Now, there are those out therethat say we're in the first one
of the horses of the apocalypseand so on.
I don't I don't I don't gothere.
But I think what we're in is thesetting of the stage so he can
bring in the kingdom.
Remember this there's going tobe a people manifesting the
(04:47):
kingdom before the tribulationstarts.
Okay?
And so my focus is to press intothe kingdom so that the kingdom
that was in is within begins tomanifest without, and people see
the kingdom of God in reality ina people that God can do
(05:08):
everything he said he'd do inme.
And that's the kingdom.
The kingdom of God is withinyou.
Now, notice he didn't say thekingdom of heaven is within you.
We won't go there today.
But there's a difference betweenthe kingdom of God and the
kingdom of heaven.
Okay?
(05:28):
But we are in a shift where Godis actively setting the stage
for the kingdom.
A couple of years ago, well,quite a number of years ago, I
guess it was, God spoke to meand he said, Bill, he said, I
want you to write from the whatwe've always called the Lord's
(05:49):
Prayer, and I want you to setthe stage for thy kingdom come
on earth as it is in heaven.
And so that has developed into aseries of courses being written.
The first one being, Thy kingdomcome, a New Testament survey,
but only focusing on thekingdom.
And I'll tell you I found somany things that we've not
(06:12):
talked about as the kingdom.
Because remember, Jesus said tothe disciples, the kingdom of
God is at hand.
Then he said, The kingdom of Godis within you, and then he left
them to begin to set the stagefor the kingdom.
So somewhere in there is thebalance of truth, and God is
(06:32):
getting ready to bring it intomanifestation.
It has taken him almost 2,000years to begin to bring forth a
mature people, to restore thechurch so that they could hear
maturity.
Kingdom reality is maturity.
(06:53):
Next question.
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Next question, please.
Hallelujah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Next question or next scenariois this.
I've had people.
Can you believe it?
I've actually had people lieabout me.
About me.
(07:14):
Yeah.
I've had people lie about me.
They've said lies about me.
And they told these lies toother people.
And uh have you ever had thathappen to you?
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
Uh, only about three times in the last two years.
SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
Only about three.
Oh, that's that's that's fair.
How do you navigate throughpeople lying about you?
SPEAKER_02 (07:34):
Well, first of all, you've got to be established in
the truth of who you are.
That only comes throughrelationships.
Only God knows who I am.
Only by relating to him does heshare with me who I am.
Not where I am in my maturity,but who I'm called to be.
(07:56):
And after that, he does show mewhere I am in maturity.
Let me say this.
Some years ago, back in 1981-82,God began to download, we had
just come back from Christiancommunity, God began to download
to me a whole series of chartsto maturity.
(08:16):
And when I got to the onegrowing up into him and all
things is what I've called it,where it talks about babes,
children, young men, andfathers.
When he took me there and gaveme the outline to study, I found
out I was not as mature as Ithought I was.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
Yeah, there we go.
SPEAKER_02 (08:34):
And you cannot grow on to maturity till you realize
the state of maturity you're at.
So when I thought I was a youngman, I actually found out I was
a child.
But with that, with with myvision corrected and my
definitions corrected, I've beenable to grow to a level of
(08:54):
maturity.
I'm not fully matured yetbecause I'm not manifesting what
full maturity is.
But I'm more, I'm closer tomaturity and more mature in my k
in the character and nature ofJesus Christ in my life than I
have ever been.
That is maturity.
Not gifts, not ministry, notsigns and wonders.
(09:16):
But the character and nature ofJesus Christ shining out through
me is the true level of mymaturity.
So when people lie about me,when they say things about me, I
rest in who he says I am.
I take that back to him.
Remember that he said, No weaponformed against you shall
(09:37):
prosper, and every tongue thatshall rise against you in
judgment, thou shalt condemn.
Now it doesn't mean you damnthem, it doesn't mean you curse
them, it means you declare themwrong before the throne of God.
What you let stand remains.
Oh, that's good.
Well Okay.
But if I declare them wrongbefore the heavenlies, where the
(09:58):
battle is, then they have nomore power over me.
So I declare some of thosethings wrong that have been said
about me, and they do not affectme.
SPEAKER_00 (10:11):
Next.
Mm-hmm.
Oh great.
You gave me a give me a coollook there, and I had a good
look, and I that was that was uhYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Well, since we're talking aboutthat type of thing, or I brought
it up.
I'm gonna go here then.
I I've understood that you'vehad some unique experiences in
(10:33):
your life.
SPEAKER_02 (10:34):
I have.
SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
Very, very unique.
And unique in the sense thatthey're spiritually powerful,
moving.
And one of them happens uh dealswith King David.
SPEAKER_02 (10:47):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
And you I wanna I wanna uh because I like you and
I love you, and I wanna I wannaclarify something.
Word on street had that uh youyou kind of talk to the dead.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
Well, first of all.
Jesus said God is not the God ofthe dead, but of the living.
Okay?
And he was referring to Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob.
But that being that as it may,let's go, first of all, to a
(11:27):
scripture in Revelation.
And I I want to go there becauseJohn had an experience in which
he thought he was talking toJesus.
And it turned out it wasn't.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:45):
And so, first of all, let me say this any
visitation from any angel orfrom anyone must be challenged
with whom do you, in the name ofthe Lord Jesus Christ, the
uncreated one, we command you totell us whom you serve.
Yep.
Okay?
Yep.
(12:05):
And that doesn't matter how manytimes you've had visitation or
how many times you have hadencounters.
We need to challenge theencounter.
Because remember, the the singoes about as a roaring lion
seeking whom he did may devour,but he also goes about as an
angel of light.
SPEAKER_00 (12:23):
You're saying that God does not get offended if you
challenge whether or not it'sfrom him or not.
SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
He does.
He gets offended if you don't.
Okay.
Because he's the one that said,try the spirits to see whether
they be of God or not.
And so what I want to do for amoment is bring my Bible up here
on my computer, go to the bookof the Revelation of Jesus
Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Love it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:48):
And go to chapter, I think it's chapter 19.
We will find out here.
It's not doing what I want it todo, so let me get it here.
SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
As you're looking at that, I want to uh encourage
those who are listening ifyou've had some unique
experiences, what Dr.
Bill just mentioned aboutchallenging whether or not those
things are from God, it's a realword of wisdom, and also it's a
point of clarificationconcerning this visitation that
(13:33):
you had, Doctor, concerningDavid, and that you actually did
that very thing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:38):
Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
In Revelation 19, 9, and he saith unto me, this is
the one that was talking withhim, right?
Blessed are they which arecalled unto the marriage supper
of the Lamb, and he saith untome, These are the true sayings
of God.
Here's John's reaction.
Remembering that John had metJesus in his glorified form in
(14:03):
chapter 1 through 3, had hadspoken to him, had heard from
him directly, directly from hismouth, had seen him in chapter 4
on the throne, and so on.
Here's what John said.
And I fell at his feet toworship him, and he said unto
me, See thou do it not.
(14:24):
I am thy servant, thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the
prophet uh thy brethren thathave the testimony of Jesus.
Worship God, for the testimonyof Jesus is the spirit of
prophecy.
But wait a minute.
John knew you were only supposedto worship Jesus.
But why do you fall at the feetof this one?
(14:47):
Who was not an angel, but one ofthe brethren.
So, you know, scripture says,out of the mouth of two or three
witnesses, let a word beestablished, right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:01):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (15:02):
So then we should look at a second witness, you
think?
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
Sure, why not?
SPEAKER_02 (15:08):
Chapter 2 and verse 8.
John didn't learn the firsttime.
No.
Okay.
And John and I John saw thesethings and heard them.
When I heard them and seen, Ifell down at to worship before
the feet of the angel.
This looked to him like anangel, which showed me these
things.
(15:28):
And he said unto me, See thou doit not, for I'm thy fellow
servant, and of thy brethren theprophets, and of them that keep
the sayings of this book,worship God.
So now we have to discernwhether it's an angel of light,
(15:49):
whether it's Jesus, or whetherit's from the cloud of
witnesses.
So I woke up one morning, orwoke up in the middle of the
night, and I see this mist in myroom.
And I said, My first thing was,God, what is this?
Remembering I've only probablyhad one visitation, and that was
(16:12):
as Jesus as the chief shepherdin my first pastorate back in
1971.
Okay?
So that was my last rememberedvisitation.
God may bring some that I've hadthat I don't remember.
I don't know.
But that was my last one.
I challenged that one.
(16:34):
And obviously it was the Lord.
So it came to this, and I said,Lord, what is it?
You know, in Jesus' name, whatis it?
Who are you?
And I heard in my spirit this isthe essence of David.
And then I heard the Holy Spiritsay, Get up and walk through
(16:55):
that essence, and I will impartto you something of his uh
essence and his spirit.
When I did that, I went back andlaid down, woke up in the
morning, but had the theexperience was as if I'd never
slept, never gone back to sleep.
(17:16):
So I told my wife, and we beganto pray into it and say, Lord,
what are you trying to teach us?
Here's what I heard.
You can think I'm radical, youcan think I'm way out there, but
David gave me permission, allright?
Permission, right?
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (17:30):
And so I said, Lord, I don't know anything about
David.
Now, what I didn't realize anddidn't put together till after
even this visitation was thatthe theme of my life and my
ministry has been that of David.
My doctoral thesis was on David.
And so I knew probably moreabout his life than any other
(17:52):
Old Testament figure.
But I didn't snap to thatunderstanding of that till
later.
And so the first thing the Lorddid is he said, Bill, remember,
in Revelation 5 and 10, the fourbeasts, the 24 elders, before
the throne, they sing in inverse 10, We praise thee, O God,
(18:18):
for thou hast made us kings andpriests unto our God.
And we shall reign on the earth.
He says, We these were redeemedfrom among men.
So those 24 elders, the fourbeasts, are of typology of
redeemed creatures.
So I said, Well, Lord, but whatis this?
He said, I want to take you andbegin to teach you the
(18:41):
principles of David's coming tothe throne experientially.
I don't know that trip, folks.
I don't know that journey.
But remember, the Holy Spirithas come to lead me and to guide
me into the experiencing of alltruth.
Now that truth is not the wholebook, the whole of scripture.
(19:02):
That truth is what he speaks tome in relationship.
Anything he speaks to me inrelationship, I can pray and ask
the Holy Spirit to lead me intoit.
I do not presume to know what itmeans.
I do not presume to know how todo it, but I can trust the Holy
Spirit to bring me there.
(19:23):
There's more around that, but Ifeel to just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amen.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I've been wanting to dothis for a while, and I just you
know, it's uh it's so true.
Let it let it let another mansay your compliments, right?
Right.
So that's what I'm doing.
Uh so that's my story, and I'msticking to it.
So last question or scenario isthis.
(19:53):
I've been hearing a lot of talkabout the tabernacle of David.
SPEAKER_02 (19:56):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:57):
And the restoration of the tabernacle of David and
worship and all that goes alongwith that.
SPEAKER_02 (20:03):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
What say you about that?
SPEAKER_02 (20:08):
Well, first of all, remember that the tabernacle of
Moses and the Tabernacle ofDavid were transition
tabernacles.
Many are talking about therestoration of the tabernacle of
David as it as if it is thefinal vessel of expression.
(20:30):
But God gave David the patternfor Solomon's temple, what we
call Solomon's Temple.
David, God was the architect,David was the drawing mechanism,
and Solomon was the big.
So the journey of God is fromthe tabernacle of Moses through
(20:51):
the tabernacle of David to theTemple of Solomon.
Because in the book ofRevelation, chapter 21, or 20,
21, and 22, the tabernacle, orthe it's not referred to as a
tabernacle, it's referred to asthe temple.
The temple then becomes theinterpreter of the types and
(21:12):
shadows of the Temple ofSolomon.
Remember, God blessed, by theway, you never hear of the
manifest presence being inDavid's tabernacle.
That is significant.
You hear of it being in thetabernacle of Moses, you hear of
(21:33):
it being in the Temple ofSolomon.
But I don't think you seeanywhere, unless God corrects me
in the days to come, anywhereclearly of it being in the
tabernacle of David, althoughDavid experienced the presence
of God there.
But we're not told that ittotally overshadowed it.
It may just have been Davidexperiencing the presence.
(21:56):
Okay?
So I do not claim for Scripturewhat it doesn't claim for
itself.
It's dangerous to get out inthat territory.
Okay?
But the tabernacle of David ismore than just worship.
The tabernacle of David, Godsaid to David, I'm going to
build you a house.
The house of David is more thana tent.
(22:19):
The house of David was acovenant with David.
It was a covenant of restoringhis level of relationship with
God to a people.
And when God said, I'm going togive you the sure mercies of
David, that is more than justworship.
And so what the when God raisesup the tabernacle of David, and
(22:42):
I believe it's part of theshift.
The emphasis will be worship.
Oh, let me give you one morescripture.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
Yeah, please.
SPEAKER_02 (22:50):
Let me mess you up a bit.
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
Please do.
SPEAKER_02 (22:52):
Okay.
Turn to Hebrews.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Hebrews.
SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
I call it the coffee book, because Hebrews.
SPEAKER_00 (22:59):
Hebrews coffee.
You gotta be Canadian for thatone, man.
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
So what we see in Hebrews is a very, very
interesting scripture.
In fact, I where was I?
I can't even remember when itwhen it was.
I ministered on it the otherday.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
But in let me go get the Bible program up here.
Back to Hebrews.
SPEAKER_00 (23:36):
Hebrews two.
Hebrews two.
SPEAKER_02 (23:42):
Very interesting scripture because it's the
context is Jesus.
Okay.
The context is Jesus speaking.
So let's go down.
Come on now.
Come on.
Give me a hard time.
SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (24:18):
I can see hers too.
He talks about being in themidst of the church, will I sing
praise unto thee?
Right.
I thought maybe I'd mark it.
And probably just because I'mtrying to find it quickly, I
can't find it.
(24:40):
But here's here's what he says.
I think it's found in chaptertwo.
But he says that in the midst,this is Jesus speaking, in the
(25:02):
midst of the church will I singpraise unto thee.
It's Jesus speaking.
The tabernacle of David is thereturn of Jesus singing in
worship to his father.
(25:22):
Let me say that again.
The worship element of thetabernacle of David is Jesus
singing praise to his father inthe midst of the congregation.
Out of that comes a repentantheart.
Out of that comes a coming to aperfect heart.
(25:44):
Because remember, God'stestimony of David after he died
was that he had a perfect heart.
That was under the old covenant.
That was under the law.
That came through relationship,not obedience to the law,
because David broke the lawmultiple times, and God
mitigated the consequences sothat he didn't die.
SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
Now that's a whole nother but the fact of the
matter being, Jesus, like theydid at the Mount of Olives prior
to his going into prayer, wasthey worship, they sang a hymn
to the Father.
Yep.
And Jesus singing in our midstis an experience that I long for
(26:35):
to see that manifest.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
I've seen it once or twice in my whole lifetime,
sixty years of ministry.
But if he did it once, he'll doit again.
Till there comes a point in timewhere every worship service
Jesus sings to the Fatherthrough his people.
(27:01):
But also I believe it'spossible, because I've we had it
in Bible school once or twice,where he sings and we hear it.
You hear it.
Everyone else in thecongregation is quiet and he
sings.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
You know, we could do this, and maybe one day we
will do it for a couple hours,but time has come, my brother.
Time has come for us to closeoff this particular episode.
But before we do, would youplease pray?
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
Father, we do not exalt experiences.
We exalt Jesus.
SPEAKER_01 (27:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:42):
And we freely admit we do not fully know how to do
that yet.
But your Holy Spirit is leadingus and guiding us into maturity
in worship.
Father, we long for the day whenwe understand what it means to
fully cast our crowns at yourfeet, to know our authority, to
(28:04):
know our maturity, and then tohumbly lay it down at your feet,
giving all glory and honor toyou.
We're asking that you lead usinto that level of truth where
people see our good works andglorify our Father which is in
heaven without any prompting.
Thank you.
Only you can do that.
We ask that you would in yourprecious name.
(28:26):
Amen.
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
Thank you, my brother, so much.
And uh, you are welcome hereanytime.
You are a welcome guest and acontributor to what's going on
around the nations.
And folks, we uh we we love you.
And if you have any thoughts,questions, concerns, please feel
(28:50):
free to drop us a line at lifearound the fire at gmail.com.
Excuse me.
That's our email address or typein Life Around the Fire and look
us up on the web.
We would love to hear from you.
In the meantime, God bless you.
Adios, amigos.
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