April 23, 2025 • 43 mins
In this powerful episode, entertainer and Elvis performer Mark shares, for the very first time, his story of being sexually abused as a child growing up in Malta.
We’d like to warn you that the content in this episode may be triggering for some people.
If this topic is triggering or distressing for you, please listen with care or feel free to skip this episode.
For those needing it support is available:
- 1800RESPECT– National Sexual Assault, Domestic and Family Violence Counselling Service: 1800 737 732 or org.au
- Lifeline– Crisis support and suicide prevention: 13 11 14 or org.au
- Kids Helpline– For young people aged 5 to 25: 1800 55 1800 or com.au
Please know you're not alone and please take care while listening.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Every day brings a new story. Life isn't perfect, but
it's perfectly ours. With raw conversations, inspiring stories and laugh
until you cry moments we hit them, I unpack it
all and figure it out together, one episode at a time.
This is Life as we know It, Unfiltered with Tony
Tanalia and Lisa Cameron.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
We have a special guest joining us in this episode,
renowned Elvis tribute performer Mark to Brone, who also happens
to be married to Olympics with Lisa Curry. Now, we
would like to warn you before we start this episode
that it may be triggering for some people as he
opens up about being sexually abused as a child. If
this topic is distressing for you, please listen with care
(00:52):
or feel free to skip the episode. For those needing it,
support is available one to eight hundred RESPECT, which is
the national Sexual assault, domestic and Family violence counseling service.
You can call them on one eight hundred seven three
seven seven three to two, or you can visit the
website one eight hundred respect dot org dot au. There's
Lifeline for crisis support and suicide prevention. You can call
(01:14):
them on thirteen eleven fourteen or visit lifeline dot org
dot au and there's the Kids Helpline for young people
aged five to twenty five. You can call one eight
hundred double five one eight hundred or visit kids Helpline
dot com dot au. Please know you're not alone. Please
take care while listening to this episode. So Mauck, welcome
(01:35):
back to life is we know?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah, well thanks for having me back here you go. Yeah,
I am very excited to be back because I thought, oh,
you know they're going to ask me back, I hope.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So there's so much that we started talking to you
about last time, and then another podcast had to come
in and record after it. So we've got kicks out
so we can get a chance to finish your chat
to you properly. And you know when you when you
first popped in with us, you said that, you know,
one of the reasons you wanted to be on the
podcast was because you had a story to tell, and
we got I suppose we scratched the surface of the
(02:09):
story that after the show, well after the show, we
got a full story and we just knew we had
to get you back to talk about this good because
you were more than willing to talk about this yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I suppose you know, a lot of people see an
entertainer on the outside and there's so much that's happened
to that person to bring them to where they are.
And I suppose what makes you a human and a
person and a strong person or is your experiences in
(02:41):
life and your struggles. And so many people feel alone
when you know they are going through these certain things.
So it's really important to not feel alone and hear
these stories from people that you know, you might think, oh,
it's never happened to them, but you know, everyone does
have a story, and you know, if we share these stories,
(03:04):
it's easier for everyone to get over the hurdles that
they're struggling.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And to know that they're not alone, because that's the thing.
I mean, we'll talk in a second about the story
that we're talking about, and this is quite serious. Serious
it is it is, but you know what we obviously
want so people to come away hearing this knowing that
they're not the only ones, because when you are in
this situation, you feel like you are the only person
that this has happened to and is dealing with this.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, and I think over the years, you know, awareness
has become a lot, a lot, what's the word. You know,
there's been a lot more awareness of things and people
find it easier to come forward about things. But it's
also important to know that, you know, back in the
seventies and eighties, you know, everything was suppressed and secrets
(03:58):
and you know you can't talk about that sort of thing.
And this is what we're going to talk about. And
you know, it's very important to even tell your kids,
you know, to be honest with you and their body
is their own. And if anyone you know, ask you
to see anything or touch or anything, you know, as
(04:20):
you know where we're heading with this story now, but
you know it is very important too, yeah, just to
make it, to bring it out in the open and
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So what we're talking about is sexual abuse exactly. And
this is something that happened to you as a child
when you're living in Malta.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yep. So when I was eight years old, my mother
passed away here in Australia. So my dad being Maltese,
you know, we had a family holiday booked in the June,
and unfortunately mum got sick so we couldn't go. But
after mom passed away in September, dad decided to go
(05:02):
for a holiday for November till you know, for three months,
spend time with his family, just lost his wife, and
he decided this is it, this is it for me.
I want to live here. So we came back to
Australia and feb and in April we were on the
plane to go back to Malta for good. So in
(05:23):
that time, you know, you're adjusting to the new culture.
We live right next door to church, a loud church,
bells and things like that. So automatically, you know, my
grandmother drags me at five o'clock in the morning, come on, Mark,
we go to the church and you know, you're a
little good boy, and you watch, you know, you're seeing
things and alta boys and things like that. So automatically,
(05:47):
as a kid, I got involved. So he became an
alder boy, you know. And I'm not talking that this
is this happens with everyone you know, or everyone is bad.
I'm just talking about an incident that happened and happened
for years, and I was eight years old at time.
After school we used to go to like like a
(06:09):
boys club sort of thing, but it was a religious
sort of boys club. After school. It was something that
was started in Malta, and it's very good for kids
to because there was education, there was free time. We
used to play soccer and table tenner's things like that
games and then we had like a half an hour
religious lesson. At the end of it went home.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So it was like a Sunday school, but there was
more involved in exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, and this was every day, so you know, after
we did our homework we were allowed to go. And
this is probably from a period of like six pm
till eight thirty, you know. So and this was, by
the way, the first time I've spoken about this, because
I've never really I've only spoken about this like with
(06:54):
family and a few friends. I don't know how this
is going to affect me because because it's the first
time I'm talking about it.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
But well, just so you know, this is a safe
space happens.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
And then if it's going to help out you know,
a couple of people, I'm happy to do it, you know,
because it does put you in an uncomfortable place talking
about it because it just brings it all back. But
I'm just going to rip the band aid off. So
you know, going to these places, you're vulnerable, you're a child,
So when an adult takes advantage of innocent child, and
(07:28):
this all started like, oh, Mark, can you come and
give me a hand? There's only a few sort of
memories that sort of popped back.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Now this is the priest hand.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
He was a religious figure, but not quite a priest yet,
so he was studying to be a priest. So you know,
the door closes things like that, and then I can't
really remember how it all started, but what I can
remember is as a child, I used to get bribed
(08:07):
or give him money to go and buy something, you know,
And this was probably before the abuse happened, so he
was screaming and grooming. So you know, Dad was a
bit of a tighter, so buying Lolly's was a luxury
for me. You know, buy an ice cream. It's like,
(08:27):
you know, can we have an ice cream? No? So
when this guy gave me some money, I'd go to
the shops and wow. And then it's sort of the
next day sort of happens again, Mark, can you give
me a hand or something. This wasn't going on until
that moment where the door sort of gets locked, and
(08:51):
then you know, the abuse starts happening. And you know
in detail. It could be. It's everything from oral sex
to just yeah, just really horrible things for a child,
(09:13):
And as a child, you sort of don't really understand
what's going on, but you sort of just go with
the flow, and you're thinking about, oh, yeah, well, he's
going to give me some money afterwards.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
So you're not actually thinking about what is happening on
the sexual sense. Well, you're thinking about at that time,
is I'm going to get some money at the end
of this so I can go and buy my lollies
and go and buy my ice cream, and.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, because you know, he sort of made it sound
like it was, okay, this is our little thing.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And as an eight year old, you're trusting an adult,
aren't you.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Well you are, and you sort of don't really know
about sex or any or abuse or anything like that.
You know, you haven't been warned in those days about
predators and things like that, so you know you're in
a situation it's like, oh, yeah, okay, whatever. When he
(10:15):
starts doing things with you with your body, my body,
so like touching you, telling me clothes would come off
to a certain extent, it sort of just went on
and on. It even went on to the fact where
(10:37):
you know, it just became a normality. I did speak
to my brother about it because I thought, oh, this
is kind of not right.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
This is your older brother John.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yes, I spoke to him, and he goes, let's go
and tell Dad. And I mean, this is another issue
of those days, you know. So we were going to
bed one night and John said, let's go and tell Dad.
So we built up the courage, and he was my
(11:11):
older brother, so I trusted him to speak and he said, Dad, Mark,
is you know, getting touched or abused by this particular person.
And it still kind of hurts me today. And I
never really spoke to my dad about it because the
(11:33):
rest of his soul he's passed on. So yeah, Dad
just brushed it off and said go to bed.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Mmm.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Oh my god, that's that's the memory I have of that.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
So he just couldn't he obviously he couldn't process it, yeah,
because he had enough that he'd been processing with your
mum gone.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I don't know whether he had been through it himself,
because I think this was something that happened a lot
in that scenario, and he dealt with it in his
own way and he got over it. But as a father.
(12:14):
I thought Dad should have done something. It's just something
that upsets me. I never spoke to him about it
afterwards because it was just very uncomfortable. But you know,
just going back to the abuse, it probably went on
for four years.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Wow. And was it just you or were your brothers
abused as well?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I think my younger brother Simon was abused.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
As Simon ever said anything to you about it? Have
you both discussed it?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
We both discussed the same person and he was abused
as well. And I think this happened to a lot
of young boys in particularly, you know, with this one person,
because you know, something happened to this person, and every
(13:06):
one thought that it was calmer. But for me, I
sort of was growing up at the time. I was
getting a bit over it. I was getting sort of thought,
you know, what is this is what is happening here? Yeah,
I was sort of starting to grow up a little.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Bit understanding that it was the wrong thing.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I was probably about eleven or twelve. Yeah, it was
just one day. He got me to the point where
we were still at closed doors and then all of
a sudden I cracked it. I just went off my
nut and I thought, this is fucked right, this is bullshit,
(13:56):
this is fucked and I just cracked it and I said,
don't ever fucking touch me ever again. And I walked
out of that room and he never did again. And
I think that for me was the way of dealing
with it and putting it behind me, because I hear
(14:20):
so many stories of people that have been through sexual abuse,
and even my wife Lisa, we were working on a
case to try and you know, help these swimmers that
were abused by a messuse and then unfortunately he didn't
(14:40):
get convicted because he passed away. But this was recently,
only a couple of years ago, you know. Unfortunately out
of that, you know, there was a suicide. One guy.
It affected him so much that he just couldn't deal
with it anymore, couldn't deal with that thought that it
(15:01):
was always there. But for me, it's not there anymore.
But what I did struggle with is changing my kids nappies.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I can understand that, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I'd do it quickly and then that's it. I'd be
like relieve when it was over. But I did actually
have that feeling.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Was that with all four kids or was it more
so with Jesse?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, not even with the girls as well. I'm sure
Jesse will be fine with me saying this. One day,
I was in the office and he creeped up behind
me and sort of just started breathing and whispering in
my ear, and I just smacked him in the face
because it just brought up that horrible feeling. Obviously apologized
(15:54):
after the fact, but it was just that emotional.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It was a trigger.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
It's just terrible, And there's just that sort of thing
that like, I can't really I don't really like having
a massage by a male. There. If I go and
have a massage, I just don't like it.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So there's still an after effect there. Even though you've
worked through what has happened to you and you've come
through the other side, there's still little things there that
take you back to that time.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Trigger just make me feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Of course, So Mike, when you were and tell me
if I'm getting too close to the bone here, right,
but when you were being abused, what can you remember
from that?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
There was a process sort of thing. Yeah, it sort
of happened. I suppose similar every time, but like, and
I'm glad I don't get to experience this at all now.
But there was just a smell. It was just horrible
(17:03):
and it was just like, oh, it was just gross.
I can't really describe the smell.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Was it the smell of him in particular or no, just.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Like the body body smell, body.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Smelly and just that the breathing or and that's what
triggered me going off at Jesse is just having that
breath on just on my neck, you know, And it
was just like yea, you know, it's just like I
did not want to be there and I think just horrible.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Just did it make you throw up? Like after the process,
did you go away and throw up? How did you
feel after the process?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Not? Really? No, I wasn't. I was never really ill
or anything. I was I was just a kid, you know,
and the motivation of just having money and going to
the shop compensated, I suppose, or I put up with
it for that and that.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
That smell that you talk about. Have you ever smelled
that on anyone since? Like, have you come across someone
and gone, oh fuck?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
That reminds me of that time, Thank god, because it
sounds like a really sick thing.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
It's just like he was almost unwell himself. I mean,
he was but you know it was seeping out of him.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
The odor, the boyodor.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah, how have you coped like with that? Like, is
there anything that you've done to try and minimize that
that memory of the smell?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Not really, because I haven't really experienced that. Again, I've
never really been close to a person that put me
in that in that zone, you know, so obviously been fortunate,
you know that it hasn't sort of triggered, but it's
(19:12):
just terrible. Yeah. Everyone deals with it in different ways,
I suppose, but I think you know, if you're struggling,
talk about it, go and see someone, don't fester it.
You really need to find the resolution to move on
from this, otherwise it's going to eat you up. Fortunately
for me, I dealt with it in the moment, but
(19:36):
some people can't. You know, some people don't get that
opportunity to deal with it, so they'll have to get
to the other side in a different way.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So you dealing with it as a twelve year old
and confronting that person, then do you feel like that's
all you needed? Like there has there been anything since
then that has still lived with you that you've needed
to get professional health with.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
No. I think for me. I was fortunate that it
didn't really stay on my mind. You know, I didn't
really there were other things going on that were that
sort of you know, left it behind, you know, so
it wasn't something that I dwell on. And I'm not
a person that dwells on things, you know, that's not
(20:24):
in my nature. Even if I have someone that is
so called an enemy or I don't. But if I
ever did, I don't let it affect me. And I
suppose I have always been the same person, but I
have changed, even like in the last fifteen years. You know,
(20:46):
I'm a different person now, and I just feel that
with my experience, if I can help someone else, that's
all I need to do.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Did you ever go through a stage mark we just
thought why me?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Not really in the time, there was no questions, you know,
I suppose as a child, I wasn't really thinking about
what was happening. I was just like going through the
moment until it was over. And then it became a
time where it was like, oh no, not again. I
(21:20):
don't want to be in this situation.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So you knew the minute that you asked to come
and help me, you knew exactly what was going to happen.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, or it was probably a different situation. After that,
it becomes a normality. It becomes like, uh, you know
everyone that's been through this abuse or groomed in a way, Yeah,
you kind of just you have a feeling, Oh, I
don't want this to happen, but you know it's going
(21:47):
to happen, and you you just ride it because you
have to, and you're in that moment and you don't
know or you don't have the strength to say no,
to stand that for yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
You know, if this is too uncomfortable to answer, then don't.
Was it a two way thing, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
It was a two way thing. I mean there was
oral sex.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So he performed on you, you would perform that on him.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yes, I mean even as a child, oral sex is
really not going to do anything. But it was like
it was sort of part of the process, so to speak.
And there was never any penetration with me. It was
more just oral sex and a lot of yeah, touching.
(22:35):
For those that experience worse off scenarios, it's terrible and horrible.
But for me it's still bad, but not as bad
as it could have been.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
I suppose it's just making me wonder like how it's
actually making you feel talking about that. You know you
described it as bad. Are there any body sensations or
anything that comes up as you're saying.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
And especially as you haven't spoken about this before and
you're now talking to us about it. Obviously we're both
mindful of the fact that, and I know you've said
you've worked through it, but part of us is going,
hang on, is it bringing something up now talking to.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Us about it? Actually, no, I think I'm way past that.
I think my nature has left it all behind. Talking
about it doesn't affect me, It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable,
or I think certain triggers are more of the other things,
(23:36):
you know, like say if a male was too close
to me or things like that. It is a terrible,
horrible thing, but I know that it's still happening out there,
and I think, you know, we need to educate our
kids from a young age about you know, their body
is their own and no one's allowed to touch it,
(23:58):
and this is something that obviously we are passing on
to our future generations. You know, it is important.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Is this something you've spoken to your kids about that
they are aware that you were sexually abused as a child. Yes,
how did that conversation start? How do you start talking
to your kids about something so personal?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, I think it's exactly that. I think it's.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
How old were they as well when you were talking
to them?
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah, I think they were quite young, Like my youngest
would have been probably five. We would have really open
conversations about everything.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Your first wife was by these conversations.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Too, And we also spoken about drugs situations. If you're
pressured into taking drugs being an entertainer, you know, this
is another topic. But I would be having a dressing room.
I'd go to get changed and there'll be someone in
my dressing room. What are you doing in there? I'm
(24:58):
knocking on the door, doors locked. Can you open U?
I need to get changed right, And I think, what
are they doing? There's a couple of girls in there,
a couple of guys, and they were snorting cocaine in
your dressing room, in my dressing room.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And the guys went part of your road crew.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
They just found that room and in they go, so
and they knew who I was because I was hang
on mark and we won't belong. They come out. One
guy stays in there, shuts the door and he goes, here,
have some, and I go, no, I'm I'm I'm good. No, no,
you have some.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
Jez No, I'm good and he goes, no, no, here
have some. And then I went like this, no, I'm good,
and he goes all right.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Then, oh my god, he was so wasted. He had
no idea.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Well, it's like puts you under so much pressure that
you don't know what to do. So I just acted like, yeah,
I already had it, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
And that we're drinking because I don't drink, So I
did the same for ages. Just pretend that I drink
to get everyone off my back, right.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah, And this is the conversation I had with my kids.
If you're ever pressure into taking drugs, just.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Act like you've already done something.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
If you're in that situation where you can't get out.
These are the conversations I had with my kids. Going
back to that original question, I openly spoke about it.
I said I was abused as a kid, so if
you're ever in a situation, just tell them to get fucked.
And because we kind of dropped the F bomb quite
a bit at home, and it was kind of it
(26:36):
was like that word that if it's serious. Yes, you
say it. Kids really need to know for a younger age.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
So how did your kids react hearing you say I
was abused as a child.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Yeah, you know, my kids were and still are. They're
just unconditional love, lots of hugs. Yeah, it was then there. Oh,
you know, thanks Dad for you know, for opening up
and getting that sort of thing. And we talk openly
about certain things, and I think the problem happens when
you don't talk about it. Yes, you know, it is
(27:10):
very important to be open and truthful to yourself.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
It really is. And I think energetically, I mean, I'm
going through something like this at the moment where you know,
I'm divorced. There are things that happen in my marriage
that my kids don't know about. My ex was with
other women. And that's the first time I've actually said
this on the podcast, because I am at the point
where I cannot hold this story down anymore. It's burning
(27:40):
my lips, it's burning my throat. It just sits like
a weight on my chest every day. And I'm actually
going to speak with my ex about it. You know,
I just said I've had enough. I just want them
everything out now because energetically. It affects a family. You're
all sitting there, but you know, yeah, you know that
there's a blockage. You know that there's something going on.
(28:01):
And you know, people who aren't into that, they'll go, whatever,
what are you talking about? And my ex might be
a bit like that. But I feel the block I
can feel it with my kids. They're part of me,
they're literally made from me. They can feel.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I think the truth is once the truth is told,
there's no hiding.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
It's right, it's been lifted. Once you've spoken those words,
it's like they've come from deep within, they burst out
of your body and it's like this huge release. You
feel free. You do.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah, it's for example, if someone sucks up and they
don't apologize or don't it just creates this drama that
you know manifests manifest But if they came out and said, sorry,
I fucked up, it's over with.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
It's done because you've admitted that you did something wrong.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
And that other person or the other party, he instantly feels, oh, well,
I can't do anything now because he said he's up.
So I think, you know, yeah, the truth is very important.
There's there's there's two really important things in life, and
that's love and truth exactly. That's it.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
So, Marke, have you come to a place where you've
forgiven the guy that did this to you?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
You know, talking about this today, I thought, oh, it's
probably gonna trigger something, but nothing. I just feel like
I'm in a place where I've moved on and I'm
cleansed from it. Yeah, I do forgive the guy. I
(29:49):
just feel like it's his struggle, not mine. I don't
have to be in his struggle. I left that. I
left that, and I walked away. And if someone's in
a situation where their abuse is their struggle because it
(30:14):
was someone else's struggle, don't let it be your struggle anymore.
It was their struggle, it was their problem. They're the predator.
They're the ones that are guilty, not you. You've done
nothing wrong, even though you're in that situation. You need
to forgive yourself and forgive them, and then you will
(30:38):
be at peace.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Because I think that's the hardest part is forgiving other people.
How did you do that? Like, did you talk to
someone about this or did.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
You spoken to anyone about this?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
So how did you see that place of forgiveness?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
It's just being happy with yourself, you know. And I
think my life is just a little p in the
pod and I'm just sort of going through my life
like everybody else is, and just wait till we come
out the other side. And everyone's going to have struggles
in this life, life as we know it. Being at
(31:17):
peace with yourself is very important. Forgiveness is very important,
whether it's family, whether it's friends. Don't let it eat
you up because your health, your stress can cause a
lot of problems. So be happy with what's happened to you,
(31:39):
except what's happened to your life, because that's what makes.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
You who you are exactly.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
If you have no bricks, if you nothing will build.
So you need those bricks in your life to get
you to where you are now and build that person,
build that strength, build those walls with you.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Saying that my I struggled with my mum for a
long time, Like my mum would do something just when
I think we'd get into a good place, she would
do something that would set us back so many years,
and I would go years without speaking to her, Like
that's how bad things got. But I when I was
moving back from overseas to Australia, and Mum was diagnosed
with cancer, she was dying. I had actually got to
(32:21):
a place where I was like, you can't hurt me anymore,
and I saw her differently. I used to see my
mum above me, if that makes sense. There's this woman
that has all this control over me. And then coming
back from overseas and seeing her and it was like,
oh my god, you're a shell of the person I
thought you were, and you're not above me anymore. You're
(32:43):
so far below me that I feel sorry for you,
and I feel sorry for who you are and what
you've done to other people because in your mind, what
you thought was right even though it wasn't. And I
was like, you can't hurt me anymore. And you know,
when my mom moved in with us, I had family
and friends going, oh my god, I can't believe Mum's
(33:04):
living with you, because they knew how bad our relationship was.
And I said, she can't hurt me anymore. She can
say what she wants, she can do what she wants
the end of the day, it's not going to hurt me.
And I keep and I kept saying to her, why
are you doing this? You're going to go soon? Is
this how you want people to remember, you know, so
I totally understand. I mean, I know our situations are different,
(33:26):
but I totally understand where you're at in that. I
forgive you because me carrying this is just going to
hurt me. It's not going to hurt anybody else. It's
just powerful.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Forgiveness is powerful, but getting there can be really hard.
So that's amazing you've been able to do that, Mark.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Mark. In one of our last episodes with you, we
touched on very briefly when Jamie passed away, and you
mentioned that when Jamie passed away, you lost not just Jamie,
but you lost Lisa for a period of time there
as well. How did you get through that?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Yeah, when we lost Jamie, I said, you know, I've
also lost my wife because she was under so much
grief and trauma with that process that she disappeared. She
just was so heartbroken, couldn't wake up in the morning,
(34:24):
couldn't do anything, she couldn't process anything. So I just
had to be there for her and expect nothing in return.
And you know, a relationship is, you know, being there
for each other and you you know, you need that support,
you need to pat on the back you know, sometimes
(34:46):
if you don't get it, you're just going to yourself, right,
So I do that a lot, you know, because Lisa
is always busy and things like that.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
We'll send your ma you're lessend.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
So yeah, I think if you give with no expectations
of receiving, if you have that philosophy in life, that's great,
you know, because so many things will come back to
you in natural energy. I'm a true believer of give, give, give,
(35:24):
and it'll come back to you, you know, whether it's
a little random acts of kindness that I don't talk about,
but I do find that I over hear. I'm blessed
with my work and my show is always sell out
and things like that. So it's great in that journey
in that couple of years.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So it was for I was going to ask you
how long months?
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Probably, I mean that was a horrendous thing to go through,
and also knowing how sick Jamie had been leading up
to that, you're dealing with that as well. I mean,
my we lost my mum to cancer, and it wasn't
just when she passed away that we had to deal
with that, but we dealt with everything leading up to
that moment. We knew she was on borrowed time.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Same with us. You know, Jamie was struggling and she
had so many layers of trauma that led to alcoholism.
But that wasn't the problem.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, that became a product of the problem.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Ye, So poor Jamie, she was processing her day with
this trauma and abuse that she had. Hadn't dealt with
the same thing. But mine was very small compared to hers,
and I dealt with mine.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
But yours wasn't small either. I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah, but it was her layers trauma. I'm talking layers.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
You had one piece of trauma where she had so many, yep.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
And I dealt with mine, and she never really dealt
with hers. You know, Lisa and I we'd be getting
phone calls in the middle of the night and then
in and out of hospital. It was just an ongoing,
terrible situation. But after she passed, Lisa said, I think
I prefer the midnight calls and all the trauma we
(37:20):
went through and have my daughter than not to have
her at all. You know, no mother should bury their children.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
No, I'm just picturing my daughter as you're saying that.
I mean, my daughter's gone through a lot of crap
in her life as well, and like I'd had moments
where I was worried she was going to do something
to herself, but she always reassured me she never would,
that she's not in that headspace. I just could not
think of anything worse. And even though we've had our moments,
(37:46):
we've had our issues over the years, things are now
coming good. We're in a better place now. I just
can't imagine anything ever happening to her or my boys.
I just, you know, I just can't. I don't even
want to think about it.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
No exactly, you know, you know, And I think that's
an important thing for your daughter and your relationship is
to talk to talk about it and be open about
when she's struggling and you want to be the person
that she comes to exactly in that situation a long time.
I'm not I'm not going well at the moment, And
(38:21):
that's what we need to build relationships where people are
open to say instead of one day a year, are
you okay, it's every day where you can just reach
out and say, hey, I'm not okay. Jamie's legacy has
helped so many other families deal with their own trauma
(38:43):
of losing kids. She gets stopped so many times in
the street and can I hugue you I've lost daughter
or my son to this that whatever. But so many stories,
so many families that have gone through the same thing
and are still going through the same thing.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
Yeah, it's so hard to imagine, is that Mark? I
want to ask you something. Your story in Malta with
the abuse, it's it's really brought up stuff for me
about my mum being Maltese and mum became an alcoholic
later on in life. She lives in this care facility
and she makes a lot of sexual allegations, you know,
(39:21):
to the point where the place has been under investigation
and everything like that. And she's drunk every day and
she just literally like he raped me, he did this,
he did that. And anyway, we had to have this
session with a counselor and she said, look, do you
know your mum's history, Like do you think that there
was sexual abuse or anything as a child. And just
(39:43):
hearing your story has made me think, I mean, we've
sort of thought that maybe there has been and it's
just repressed and now it's she's verbalizing it. No, she's drunk,
but it's coming out so much. Was this a thing
in Malta back then? Like do you know where they are?
Speaker 3 (39:59):
At?
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Lot of cases of this going on. Because she was Catholic,
she often talked about the strict nuns and everything like that,
and she was petrified of the religious leaders and everything.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I think it was an ongoing thing with a couple
of predators. This was just in my village. It's only
a small village, and you've got older boys and boys
that go to after school care. But I haven't heard
stories with women or with girls. I've only heard the boys, right,
(40:36):
And I haven't heard stories from any of my sisters
going through that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Do you think maybe they, if it's happened, they're not
comfortable talking about it, or do you think that they would.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
If I asked the question. It's never really come up,
and it's not something you talk about, you.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Know, which is something which we're saying now you should
talk about exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I think it's still a bit of old school there
and all that sort of things not talked about and
deal with it. Hearing your mom's story, i'd suggest there
probably is some sort of backstory that is causing the
band aid of alcoholism. You should try and get to
(41:20):
the bottom of it and see if you can.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Unfortunately, it's where she's at. She's got like an alcoholics dementia,
so and she's had numerous falls and that's like dammage
her brain and she's just on repeat. So when we
see her, you know, she just says the same things over.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
And so maybe it is a regressive memory that's coming back.
That's what we and especially if it's the same thing
that she's saying, because if it wasn't the same thing,
you'd go, okay, maybe it could be a story being
made up. But if it's the same, because.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
She just points out people and like he raped me.
He that, you know, and you're like, how can this
many people rape you? It's actually really comfortable to be
around the amount that's come out. And that's why when
we had this session with a counselor, she you know,
she said, do you think something's happened in her childhood?
I really think something did, because why would she be
(42:12):
saying this so much?
Speaker 3 (42:14):
You know, Yeah, well it does make sense, and you know,
the feeling I'm getting is that it does go back
to her childhood, which now is just making everyone look
like that person. Yeah, everyone she sees, and then she's
just that's why she's coming out now saying, Oh he's
(42:36):
raped me, he's raped me, because that's all she sees,
is that one person that has affected her.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Yeah. Yeah, we really do think something's happened, but I
don't know if we'll ever get to the body. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Well, a very powerful story shared with us by Mark there.
If you have found this triggering, please reach out for
support either one eight hundred Respect Lifeline or Kids Helpline.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
You've been listening to Life as We Know Unfiltered with
Tony Tanalia and Lisa Cameron. If you liked this episode,
please leave us a review or drop a comment on
our socials. We love hearing from you. You can also
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(43:18):
on your favorite podcast app If you're not following us yet,
catch up with you in our next episode.
Every day brings a new story. Life isn't perfect, but
it's perfectly ours. With raw conversations, inspiring stories and laugh
until you cry moments we hit them, I unpack it
all and figure it out together, one episode at a time.
This is Life as we know It, Unfiltered with Tony
Tanalia and Lisa Cameron.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
We have a special guest joining us in this episode,
renowned Elvis tribute performer Mark to Brone, who also happens
to be married to Olympics with Lisa Curry. Now, we
would like to warn you before we start this episode
that it may be triggering for some people as he
opens up about being sexually abused as a child. If
this topic is distressing for you, please listen with care
(00:52):
or feel free to skip the episode. For those needing it,
support is available one to eight hundred RESPECT, which is
the national Sexual assault, domestic and Family violence counseling service.
You can call them on one eight hundred seven three
seven seven three to two, or you can visit the
website one eight hundred respect dot org dot au. There's
Lifeline for crisis support and suicide prevention. You can call
(01:14):
them on thirteen eleven fourteen or visit lifeline dot org
dot au and there's the Kids Helpline for young people
aged five to twenty five. You can call one eight
hundred double five one eight hundred or visit kids Helpline
dot com dot au. Please know you're not alone. Please
take care while listening to this episode. So Mauck, welcome
(01:35):
back to life is we know?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah, well thanks for having me back here you go. Yeah,
I am very excited to be back because I thought, oh,
you know they're going to ask me back, I hope.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So there's so much that we started talking to you
about last time, and then another podcast had to come
in and record after it. So we've got kicks out
so we can get a chance to finish your chat
to you properly. And you know when you when you
first popped in with us, you said that, you know,
one of the reasons you wanted to be on the
podcast was because you had a story to tell, and
we got I suppose we scratched the surface of the
(02:09):
story that after the show, well after the show, we
got a full story and we just knew we had
to get you back to talk about this good because
you were more than willing to talk about this yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I suppose you know, a lot of people see an
entertainer on the outside and there's so much that's happened
to that person to bring them to where they are.
And I suppose what makes you a human and a
person and a strong person or is your experiences in
(02:41):
life and your struggles. And so many people feel alone
when you know they are going through these certain things.
So it's really important to not feel alone and hear
these stories from people that you know, you might think, oh,
it's never happened to them, but you know, everyone does
have a story, and you know, if we share these stories,
(03:04):
it's easier for everyone to get over the hurdles that
they're struggling.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And to know that they're not alone, because that's the thing.
I mean, we'll talk in a second about the story
that we're talking about, and this is quite serious. Serious
it is it is, but you know what we obviously
want so people to come away hearing this knowing that
they're not the only ones, because when you are in
this situation, you feel like you are the only person
that this has happened to and is dealing with this.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, and I think over the years, you know, awareness
has become a lot, a lot, what's the word. You know,
there's been a lot more awareness of things and people
find it easier to come forward about things. But it's
also important to know that, you know, back in the
seventies and eighties, you know, everything was suppressed and secrets
(03:58):
and you know you can't talk about that sort of thing.
And this is what we're going to talk about. And
you know, it's very important to even tell your kids,
you know, to be honest with you and their body
is their own. And if anyone you know, ask you
to see anything or touch or anything, you know, as
(04:20):
you know where we're heading with this story now, but
you know it is very important too, yeah, just to
make it, to bring it out in the open and
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So what we're talking about is sexual abuse exactly. And
this is something that happened to you as a child
when you're living in Malta.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yep. So when I was eight years old, my mother
passed away here in Australia. So my dad being Maltese,
you know, we had a family holiday booked in the June,
and unfortunately mum got sick so we couldn't go. But
after mom passed away in September, dad decided to go
(05:02):
for a holiday for November till you know, for three months,
spend time with his family, just lost his wife, and
he decided this is it, this is it for me.
I want to live here. So we came back to
Australia and feb and in April we were on the
plane to go back to Malta for good. So in
(05:23):
that time, you know, you're adjusting to the new culture.
We live right next door to church, a loud church,
bells and things like that. So automatically, you know, my
grandmother drags me at five o'clock in the morning, come on, Mark,
we go to the church and you know, you're a
little good boy, and you watch, you know, you're seeing
things and alta boys and things like that. So automatically,
(05:47):
as a kid, I got involved. So he became an
alder boy, you know. And I'm not talking that this
is this happens with everyone you know, or everyone is bad.
I'm just talking about an incident that happened and happened
for years, and I was eight years old at time.
After school we used to go to like like a
(06:09):
boys club sort of thing, but it was a religious
sort of boys club. After school. It was something that
was started in Malta, and it's very good for kids
to because there was education, there was free time. We
used to play soccer and table tenner's things like that
games and then we had like a half an hour
religious lesson. At the end of it went home.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So it was like a Sunday school, but there was
more involved in exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, and this was every day, so you know, after
we did our homework we were allowed to go. And
this is probably from a period of like six pm
till eight thirty, you know. So and this was, by
the way, the first time I've spoken about this, because
I've never really I've only spoken about this like with
(06:54):
family and a few friends. I don't know how this
is going to affect me because because it's the first
time I'm talking about it.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
But well, just so you know, this is a safe
space happens.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
And then if it's going to help out you know,
a couple of people, I'm happy to do it, you know,
because it does put you in an uncomfortable place talking
about it because it just brings it all back. But
I'm just going to rip the band aid off. So
you know, going to these places, you're vulnerable, you're a child,
So when an adult takes advantage of innocent child, and
(07:28):
this all started like, oh, Mark, can you come and
give me a hand? There's only a few sort of
memories that sort of popped back.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Now this is the priest hand.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
He was a religious figure, but not quite a priest yet,
so he was studying to be a priest. So you know,
the door closes things like that, and then I can't
really remember how it all started, but what I can
remember is as a child, I used to get bribed
(08:07):
or give him money to go and buy something, you know,
And this was probably before the abuse happened, so he
was screaming and grooming. So you know, Dad was a
bit of a tighter, so buying Lolly's was a luxury
for me. You know, buy an ice cream. It's like,
(08:27):
you know, can we have an ice cream? No? So
when this guy gave me some money, I'd go to
the shops and wow. And then it's sort of the
next day sort of happens again, Mark, can you give
me a hand or something. This wasn't going on until
that moment where the door sort of gets locked, and
(08:51):
then you know, the abuse starts happening. And you know
in detail. It could be. It's everything from oral sex
to just yeah, just really horrible things for a child,
(09:13):
And as a child, you sort of don't really understand
what's going on, but you sort of just go with
the flow, and you're thinking about, oh, yeah, well, he's
going to give me some money afterwards.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
So you're not actually thinking about what is happening on
the sexual sense. Well, you're thinking about at that time,
is I'm going to get some money at the end
of this so I can go and buy my lollies
and go and buy my ice cream, and.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, because you know, he sort of made it sound
like it was, okay, this is our little thing.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And as an eight year old, you're trusting an adult,
aren't you.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Well you are, and you sort of don't really know
about sex or any or abuse or anything like that.
You know, you haven't been warned in those days about
predators and things like that, so you know you're in
a situation it's like, oh, yeah, okay, whatever. When he
(10:15):
starts doing things with you with your body, my body,
so like touching you, telling me clothes would come off
to a certain extent, it sort of just went on
and on. It even went on to the fact where
(10:37):
you know, it just became a normality. I did speak
to my brother about it because I thought, oh, this
is kind of not right.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
This is your older brother John.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yes, I spoke to him, and he goes, let's go
and tell Dad. And I mean, this is another issue
of those days, you know. So we were going to
bed one night and John said, let's go and tell Dad.
So we built up the courage, and he was my
(11:11):
older brother, so I trusted him to speak and he said, Dad, Mark,
is you know, getting touched or abused by this particular person.
And it still kind of hurts me today. And I
never really spoke to my dad about it because the
(11:33):
rest of his soul he's passed on. So yeah, Dad
just brushed it off and said go to bed.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Mmm.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Oh my god, that's that's the memory I have of that.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
So he just couldn't he obviously he couldn't process it, yeah,
because he had enough that he'd been processing with your
mum gone.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I don't know whether he had been through it himself,
because I think this was something that happened a lot
in that scenario, and he dealt with it in his
own way and he got over it. But as a father.
(12:14):
I thought Dad should have done something. It's just something
that upsets me. I never spoke to him about it
afterwards because it was just very uncomfortable. But you know,
just going back to the abuse, it probably went on
for four years.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Wow. And was it just you or were your brothers
abused as well?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I think my younger brother Simon was abused.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
As Simon ever said anything to you about it? Have
you both discussed it?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
We both discussed the same person and he was abused
as well. And I think this happened to a lot
of young boys in particularly, you know, with this one person,
because you know, something happened to this person, and every
(13:06):
one thought that it was calmer. But for me, I
sort of was growing up at the time. I was
getting a bit over it. I was getting sort of thought,
you know, what is this is what is happening here? Yeah,
I was sort of starting to grow up a little.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Bit understanding that it was the wrong thing.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I was probably about eleven or twelve. Yeah, it was
just one day. He got me to the point where
we were still at closed doors and then all of
a sudden I cracked it. I just went off my
nut and I thought, this is fucked right, this is bullshit,
(13:56):
this is fucked and I just cracked it and I said,
don't ever fucking touch me ever again. And I walked
out of that room and he never did again. And
I think that for me was the way of dealing
with it and putting it behind me, because I hear
(14:20):
so many stories of people that have been through sexual abuse,
and even my wife Lisa, we were working on a
case to try and you know, help these swimmers that
were abused by a messuse and then unfortunately he didn't
(14:40):
get convicted because he passed away. But this was recently,
only a couple of years ago, you know. Unfortunately out
of that, you know, there was a suicide. One guy.
It affected him so much that he just couldn't deal
with it anymore, couldn't deal with that thought that it
(15:01):
was always there. But for me, it's not there anymore.
But what I did struggle with is changing my kids nappies.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I can understand that, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I'd do it quickly and then that's it. I'd be
like relieve when it was over. But I did actually
have that feeling.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Was that with all four kids or was it more
so with Jesse?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, not even with the girls as well. I'm sure
Jesse will be fine with me saying this. One day,
I was in the office and he creeped up behind
me and sort of just started breathing and whispering in
my ear, and I just smacked him in the face
because it just brought up that horrible feeling. Obviously apologized
(15:54):
after the fact, but it was just that emotional.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It was a trigger.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
It's just terrible, And there's just that sort of thing
that like, I can't really I don't really like having
a massage by a male. There. If I go and
have a massage, I just don't like it.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So there's still an after effect there. Even though you've
worked through what has happened to you and you've come
through the other side, there's still little things there that
take you back to that time.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Trigger just make me feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Of course, So Mike, when you were and tell me
if I'm getting too close to the bone here, right,
but when you were being abused, what can you remember
from that?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
There was a process sort of thing. Yeah, it sort
of happened. I suppose similar every time, but like, and
I'm glad I don't get to experience this at all now.
But there was just a smell. It was just horrible
(17:03):
and it was just like, oh, it was just gross.
I can't really describe the smell.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Was it the smell of him in particular or no, just.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Like the body body smell, body.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Smelly and just that the breathing or and that's what
triggered me going off at Jesse is just having that
breath on just on my neck, you know, And it
was just like yea, you know, it's just like I
did not want to be there and I think just horrible.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Just did it make you throw up? Like after the process,
did you go away and throw up? How did you
feel after the process?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Not? Really? No, I wasn't. I was never really ill
or anything. I was I was just a kid, you know,
and the motivation of just having money and going to
the shop compensated, I suppose, or I put up with
it for that and that.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
That smell that you talk about. Have you ever smelled
that on anyone since? Like, have you come across someone
and gone, oh fuck?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
That reminds me of that time, Thank god, because it
sounds like a really sick thing.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
It's just like he was almost unwell himself. I mean,
he was but you know it was seeping out of him.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
The odor, the boyodor.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah, how have you coped like with that? Like, is
there anything that you've done to try and minimize that
that memory of the smell?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Not really, because I haven't really experienced that. Again, I've
never really been close to a person that put me
in that in that zone, you know, so obviously been fortunate,
you know that it hasn't sort of triggered, but it's
(19:12):
just terrible. Yeah. Everyone deals with it in different ways,
I suppose, but I think you know, if you're struggling,
talk about it, go and see someone, don't fester it.
You really need to find the resolution to move on
from this, otherwise it's going to eat you up. Fortunately
for me, I dealt with it in the moment, but
(19:36):
some people can't. You know, some people don't get that
opportunity to deal with it, so they'll have to get
to the other side in a different way.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So you dealing with it as a twelve year old
and confronting that person, then do you feel like that's
all you needed? Like there has there been anything since
then that has still lived with you that you've needed
to get professional health with.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
No. I think for me. I was fortunate that it
didn't really stay on my mind. You know, I didn't
really there were other things going on that were that
sort of you know, left it behind, you know, so
it wasn't something that I dwell on. And I'm not
a person that dwells on things, you know, that's not
(20:24):
in my nature. Even if I have someone that is
so called an enemy or I don't. But if I
ever did, I don't let it affect me. And I
suppose I have always been the same person, but I
have changed, even like in the last fifteen years. You know,
(20:46):
I'm a different person now, and I just feel that
with my experience, if I can help someone else, that's
all I need to do.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Did you ever go through a stage mark we just
thought why me?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Not really in the time, there was no questions, you know,
I suppose as a child, I wasn't really thinking about
what was happening. I was just like going through the
moment until it was over. And then it became a
time where it was like, oh no, not again. I
(21:20):
don't want to be in this situation.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So you knew the minute that you asked to come
and help me, you knew exactly what was going to happen.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, or it was probably a different situation. After that,
it becomes a normality. It becomes like, uh, you know
everyone that's been through this abuse or groomed in a way, Yeah,
you kind of just you have a feeling, Oh, I
don't want this to happen, but you know it's going
(21:47):
to happen, and you you just ride it because you
have to, and you're in that moment and you don't
know or you don't have the strength to say no,
to stand that for yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
You know, if this is too uncomfortable to answer, then don't.
Was it a two way thing, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
It was a two way thing. I mean there was
oral sex.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So he performed on you, you would perform that on him.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yes, I mean even as a child, oral sex is
really not going to do anything. But it was like
it was sort of part of the process, so to speak.
And there was never any penetration with me. It was
more just oral sex and a lot of yeah, touching.
(22:35):
For those that experience worse off scenarios, it's terrible and horrible.
But for me it's still bad, but not as bad
as it could have been.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
I suppose it's just making me wonder like how it's
actually making you feel talking about that. You know you
described it as bad. Are there any body sensations or
anything that comes up as you're saying.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
And especially as you haven't spoken about this before and
you're now talking to us about it. Obviously we're both
mindful of the fact that, and I know you've said
you've worked through it, but part of us is going,
hang on, is it bringing something up now talking to.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Us about it? Actually, no, I think I'm way past that.
I think my nature has left it all behind. Talking
about it doesn't affect me, It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable,
or I think certain triggers are more of the other things,
(23:36):
you know, like say if a male was too close
to me or things like that. It is a terrible,
horrible thing, but I know that it's still happening out there,
and I think, you know, we need to educate our
kids from a young age about you know, their body
is their own and no one's allowed to touch it,
(23:58):
and this is something that obviously we are passing on
to our future generations. You know, it is important.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Is this something you've spoken to your kids about that
they are aware that you were sexually abused as a child. Yes,
how did that conversation start? How do you start talking
to your kids about something so personal?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, I think it's exactly that. I think it's.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
How old were they as well when you were talking
to them?
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah, I think they were quite young, Like my youngest
would have been probably five. We would have really open
conversations about everything.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Your first wife was by these conversations.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Too, And we also spoken about drugs situations. If you're
pressured into taking drugs being an entertainer, you know, this
is another topic. But I would be having a dressing room.
I'd go to get changed and there'll be someone in
my dressing room. What are you doing in there? I'm
(24:58):
knocking on the door, doors locked. Can you open U?
I need to get changed right, And I think, what
are they doing? There's a couple of girls in there,
a couple of guys, and they were snorting cocaine in
your dressing room, in my dressing room.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And the guys went part of your road crew.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
They just found that room and in they go, so
and they knew who I was because I was hang
on mark and we won't belong. They come out. One
guy stays in there, shuts the door and he goes, here,
have some, and I go, no, I'm I'm I'm good. No, no,
you have some.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
Jez No, I'm good and he goes, no, no, here
have some. And then I went like this, no, I'm good,
and he goes all right.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Then, oh my god, he was so wasted. He had
no idea.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Well, it's like puts you under so much pressure that
you don't know what to do. So I just acted like, yeah,
I already had it, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
And that we're drinking because I don't drink, So I
did the same for ages. Just pretend that I drink
to get everyone off my back, right.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah, And this is the conversation I had with my kids.
If you're ever pressure into taking drugs, just.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Act like you've already done something.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
If you're in that situation where you can't get out.
These are the conversations I had with my kids. Going
back to that original question, I openly spoke about it.
I said I was abused as a kid, so if
you're ever in a situation, just tell them to get fucked.
And because we kind of dropped the F bomb quite
a bit at home, and it was kind of it
(26:36):
was like that word that if it's serious. Yes, you
say it. Kids really need to know for a younger age.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
So how did your kids react hearing you say I
was abused as a child.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Yeah, you know, my kids were and still are. They're
just unconditional love, lots of hugs. Yeah, it was then there. Oh,
you know, thanks Dad for you know, for opening up
and getting that sort of thing. And we talk openly
about certain things, and I think the problem happens when
you don't talk about it. Yes, you know, it is
(27:10):
very important to be open and truthful to yourself.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
It really is. And I think energetically, I mean, I'm
going through something like this at the moment where you know,
I'm divorced. There are things that happen in my marriage
that my kids don't know about. My ex was with
other women. And that's the first time I've actually said
this on the podcast, because I am at the point
where I cannot hold this story down anymore. It's burning
(27:40):
my lips, it's burning my throat. It just sits like
a weight on my chest every day. And I'm actually
going to speak with my ex about it. You know,
I just said I've had enough. I just want them
everything out now because energetically. It affects a family. You're
all sitting there, but you know, yeah, you know that
there's a blockage. You know that there's something going on.
(28:01):
And you know, people who aren't into that, they'll go, whatever,
what are you talking about? And my ex might be
a bit like that. But I feel the block I
can feel it with my kids. They're part of me,
they're literally made from me. They can feel.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I think the truth is once the truth is told,
there's no hiding.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
It's right, it's been lifted. Once you've spoken those words,
it's like they've come from deep within, they burst out
of your body and it's like this huge release. You
feel free. You do.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah, it's for example, if someone sucks up and they
don't apologize or don't it just creates this drama that
you know manifests manifest But if they came out and said, sorry,
I fucked up, it's over with.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
It's done because you've admitted that you did something wrong.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
And that other person or the other party, he instantly feels, oh, well,
I can't do anything now because he said he's up.
So I think, you know, yeah, the truth is very important.
There's there's there's two really important things in life, and
that's love and truth exactly. That's it.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
So, Marke, have you come to a place where you've
forgiven the guy that did this to you?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
You know, talking about this today, I thought, oh, it's
probably gonna trigger something, but nothing. I just feel like
I'm in a place where I've moved on and I'm
cleansed from it. Yeah, I do forgive the guy. I
(29:49):
just feel like it's his struggle, not mine. I don't
have to be in his struggle. I left that. I
left that, and I walked away. And if someone's in
a situation where their abuse is their struggle because it
(30:14):
was someone else's struggle, don't let it be your struggle anymore.
It was their struggle, it was their problem. They're the predator.
They're the ones that are guilty, not you. You've done
nothing wrong, even though you're in that situation. You need
to forgive yourself and forgive them, and then you will
(30:38):
be at peace.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Because I think that's the hardest part is forgiving other people.
How did you do that? Like, did you talk to
someone about this or did.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
You spoken to anyone about this?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
So how did you see that place of forgiveness?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
It's just being happy with yourself, you know. And I
think my life is just a little p in the
pod and I'm just sort of going through my life
like everybody else is, and just wait till we come
out the other side. And everyone's going to have struggles
in this life, life as we know it. Being at
(31:17):
peace with yourself is very important. Forgiveness is very important,
whether it's family, whether it's friends. Don't let it eat
you up because your health, your stress can cause a
lot of problems. So be happy with what's happened to you,
(31:39):
except what's happened to your life, because that's what makes.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
You who you are exactly.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
If you have no bricks, if you nothing will build.
So you need those bricks in your life to get
you to where you are now and build that person,
build that strength, build those walls with you.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Saying that my I struggled with my mum for a
long time, Like my mum would do something just when
I think we'd get into a good place, she would
do something that would set us back so many years,
and I would go years without speaking to her, Like
that's how bad things got. But I when I was
moving back from overseas to Australia, and Mum was diagnosed
with cancer, she was dying. I had actually got to
(32:21):
a place where I was like, you can't hurt me anymore,
and I saw her differently. I used to see my
mum above me, if that makes sense. There's this woman
that has all this control over me. And then coming
back from overseas and seeing her and it was like,
oh my god, you're a shell of the person I
thought you were, and you're not above me anymore. You're
(32:43):
so far below me that I feel sorry for you,
and I feel sorry for who you are and what
you've done to other people because in your mind, what
you thought was right even though it wasn't. And I
was like, you can't hurt me anymore. And you know,
when my mom moved in with us, I had family
and friends going, oh my god, I can't believe Mum's
(33:04):
living with you, because they knew how bad our relationship was.
And I said, she can't hurt me anymore. She can
say what she wants, she can do what she wants
the end of the day, it's not going to hurt me.
And I keep and I kept saying to her, why
are you doing this? You're going to go soon? Is
this how you want people to remember, you know, so
I totally understand. I mean, I know our situations are different,
(33:26):
but I totally understand where you're at in that. I
forgive you because me carrying this is just going to
hurt me. It's not going to hurt anybody else. It's
just powerful.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Forgiveness is powerful, but getting there can be really hard.
So that's amazing you've been able to do that, Mark.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Mark. In one of our last episodes with you, we
touched on very briefly when Jamie passed away, and you
mentioned that when Jamie passed away, you lost not just Jamie,
but you lost Lisa for a period of time there
as well. How did you get through that?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Yeah, when we lost Jamie, I said, you know, I've
also lost my wife because she was under so much
grief and trauma with that process that she disappeared. She
just was so heartbroken, couldn't wake up in the morning,
(34:24):
couldn't do anything, she couldn't process anything. So I just
had to be there for her and expect nothing in return.
And you know, a relationship is, you know, being there
for each other and you you know, you need that support,
you need to pat on the back you know, sometimes
(34:46):
if you don't get it, you're just going to yourself, right,
So I do that a lot, you know, because Lisa
is always busy and things like that.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
We'll send your ma you're lessend.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
So yeah, I think if you give with no expectations
of receiving, if you have that philosophy in life, that's great,
you know, because so many things will come back to
you in natural energy. I'm a true believer of give, give, give,
(35:24):
and it'll come back to you, you know, whether it's
a little random acts of kindness that I don't talk about,
but I do find that I over hear. I'm blessed
with my work and my show is always sell out
and things like that. So it's great in that journey
in that couple of years.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So it was for I was going to ask you
how long months?
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Probably, I mean that was a horrendous thing to go through,
and also knowing how sick Jamie had been leading up
to that, you're dealing with that as well. I mean,
my we lost my mum to cancer, and it wasn't
just when she passed away that we had to deal
with that, but we dealt with everything leading up to
that moment. We knew she was on borrowed time.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Same with us. You know, Jamie was struggling and she
had so many layers of trauma that led to alcoholism.
But that wasn't the problem.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, that became a product of the problem.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Ye, So poor Jamie, she was processing her day with
this trauma and abuse that she had. Hadn't dealt with
the same thing. But mine was very small compared to hers,
and I dealt with mine.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
But yours wasn't small either. I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah, but it was her layers trauma. I'm talking layers.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
You had one piece of trauma where she had so many, yep.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
And I dealt with mine, and she never really dealt
with hers. You know, Lisa and I we'd be getting
phone calls in the middle of the night and then
in and out of hospital. It was just an ongoing,
terrible situation. But after she passed, Lisa said, I think
I prefer the midnight calls and all the trauma we
(37:20):
went through and have my daughter than not to have
her at all. You know, no mother should bury their children.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
No, I'm just picturing my daughter as you're saying that.
I mean, my daughter's gone through a lot of crap
in her life as well, and like I'd had moments
where I was worried she was going to do something
to herself, but she always reassured me she never would,
that she's not in that headspace. I just could not
think of anything worse. And even though we've had our moments,
(37:46):
we've had our issues over the years, things are now
coming good. We're in a better place now. I just
can't imagine anything ever happening to her or my boys.
I just, you know, I just can't. I don't even
want to think about it.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
No exactly, you know, you know, And I think that's
an important thing for your daughter and your relationship is
to talk to talk about it and be open about
when she's struggling and you want to be the person
that she comes to exactly in that situation a long time.
I'm not I'm not going well at the moment, And
(38:21):
that's what we need to build relationships where people are
open to say instead of one day a year, are
you okay, it's every day where you can just reach
out and say, hey, I'm not okay. Jamie's legacy has
helped so many other families deal with their own trauma
(38:43):
of losing kids. She gets stopped so many times in
the street and can I hugue you I've lost daughter
or my son to this that whatever. But so many stories,
so many families that have gone through the same thing
and are still going through the same thing.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
Yeah, it's so hard to imagine, is that Mark? I
want to ask you something. Your story in Malta with
the abuse, it's it's really brought up stuff for me
about my mum being Maltese and mum became an alcoholic
later on in life. She lives in this care facility
and she makes a lot of sexual allegations, you know,
(39:21):
to the point where the place has been under investigation
and everything like that. And she's drunk every day and
she just literally like he raped me, he did this,
he did that. And anyway, we had to have this
session with a counselor and she said, look, do you
know your mum's history, Like do you think that there
was sexual abuse or anything as a child. And just
(39:43):
hearing your story has made me think, I mean, we've
sort of thought that maybe there has been and it's
just repressed and now it's she's verbalizing it. No, she's drunk,
but it's coming out so much. Was this a thing
in Malta back then? Like do you know where they are?
Speaker 3 (39:59):
At?
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Lot of cases of this going on. Because she was Catholic,
she often talked about the strict nuns and everything like that,
and she was petrified of the religious leaders and everything.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I think it was an ongoing thing with a couple
of predators. This was just in my village. It's only
a small village, and you've got older boys and boys
that go to after school care. But I haven't heard
stories with women or with girls. I've only heard the boys, right,
(40:36):
And I haven't heard stories from any of my sisters
going through that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Do you think maybe they, if it's happened, they're not
comfortable talking about it, or do you think that they would.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
If I asked the question. It's never really come up,
and it's not something you talk about, you.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Know, which is something which we're saying now you should
talk about exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I think it's still a bit of old school there
and all that sort of things not talked about and
deal with it. Hearing your mom's story, i'd suggest there
probably is some sort of backstory that is causing the
band aid of alcoholism. You should try and get to
(41:20):
the bottom of it and see if you can.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Unfortunately, it's where she's at. She's got like an alcoholics dementia,
so and she's had numerous falls and that's like dammage
her brain and she's just on repeat. So when we
see her, you know, she just says the same things over.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
And so maybe it is a regressive memory that's coming back.
That's what we and especially if it's the same thing
that she's saying, because if it wasn't the same thing,
you'd go, okay, maybe it could be a story being
made up. But if it's the same, because.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
She just points out people and like he raped me.
He that, you know, and you're like, how can this
many people rape you? It's actually really comfortable to be
around the amount that's come out. And that's why when
we had this session with a counselor, she you know,
she said, do you think something's happened in her childhood?
I really think something did, because why would she be
(42:12):
saying this so much?
Speaker 3 (42:14):
You know, Yeah, well it does make sense, and you know,
the feeling I'm getting is that it does go back
to her childhood, which now is just making everyone look
like that person. Yeah, everyone she sees, and then she's
just that's why she's coming out now saying, Oh he's
(42:36):
raped me, he's raped me, because that's all she sees,
is that one person that has affected her.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Yeah. Yeah, we really do think something's happened, but I
don't know if we'll ever get to the body. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Well, a very powerful story shared with us by Mark there.
If you have found this triggering, please reach out for
support either one eight hundred Respect Lifeline or Kids Helpline.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
You've been listening to Life as We Know Unfiltered with
Tony Tanalia and Lisa Cameron. If you liked this episode,
please leave us a review or drop a comment on
our socials. We love hearing from you. You can also
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(43:18):
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