September 22, 2023 • 23 mins
Are you trying to be a better version of yourself? Are you struggling with making change? By making 1% change everyday you can drive a 37 fold impact in a year.
Welcome to Life Beats with Sirisha! In today's episode, we have , Mani Jonnalagada, a product Tech exec who will be sharing her experiences in product management and discussing the book "Atomic Habits" by James Clear. Join us as we dive into the world of habit-building and explore how making small changes can lead to significant transformation. We will uncover the secrets to living your best life and the way you approach habits.
Mani Jonnalagada is a seasoned product manager with a diverse background in industries such as engineering, airlines, travel, fintech, and commercial real estate. With a master's degree in engineering, Mani has developed a deep passion for product management, believing that it is pivotal to understand what you are trying to build, the why behind it, and the desired outcomes for the business, stakeholders, and users. Mani's commitment to designing delightful experiences within the product world has propelled her career and led her to learn from industry expert Marty Kagan. Inspired by the concept of continuous improvement, Mani embraces the idea of achieving 1% progress every day, knowing that it can lead to a significant 37-fold improvement in a year. Conversely, Mani recognizes the danger of allowing skills to decline, emphasizing the importance of consistent execution and maintaining expertise.
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I'm a former tech executive, a podcast host and an entrepreneur. I work with Universities on Organizations to transition students to the corporate world and building successful leadership pipelines ensuring a healthy financial future.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (00:00):
Hello.
Have you wondered how to be thebest version of yourselves?
You've been trying to make thesechanges and been struggling with
it and trying to figure it out.
Hello, everyone.
This is a gorgeous Thursdayafternoon.
Can you believe it's only 80, 70degrees out there?
It's actually it's like a coldfront.
Welcome to Live Beats withSirisha on Radio Caravan.
(00:21):
I'm your host, Dr.
Sirisha Kuchmanchi, a formersemiconductor tech executive, an
entrepreneur, and a speaker.
I host the podcast Women,Career, and Life.
You can check it out on any ofyour favorite podcast platforms.
It basically talks about Howwomen can grow into, how do you
elevate yourself into leadershiproles and also become
financially empowered?
I also do keynote speaking fororganizations and universities
(00:45):
on basically enabling people toget into leadership roles and
for graduate students to enterthe corporate world and become
financially empowered as well.
If you're interested inpartnering with me or learning
more about what I do, check outmy website, Sirisha Kuchimanchi.
I'm going to spell it outbecause it's a mouthful.
S I R I S H A K U C H I M A N CH I.
(01:09):
I always like to hear fromfolks, so you can DM me on
LinkedIn.
But let's dive into today'stopic, because I have so much to
learn.
Today's topic, we have ManiJanagadda joining us.
She is a product tech exec.
And her experience is in productmanagement, and she's worked at
many companies, CBRE, CapitalOne, Sabre the breadth is so
(01:30):
phenomenal.
Mani is going to briefly touchon that, but really she's going
to talk about this book she'sbeen reading called Atomic
Habits by James Clear.
I've heard of it.
I've seen snippets.
I've read it a bit, but I thinkthat's things I need to learn.
So we're going to have aconversation.
But more importantly, as always,the phone lines are going to be
open.
Call in with your questions,call in how you are making the
change or how you're thinkingabout it or what challenge you
(01:52):
might be having.
The number is 214 817 3333.
I hope you call into the phoneline number again, 214 817 3333.
So let's welcome money today.
I'm so excited for thisconversation money.
Thank you for being here.
Why don't you start with brieflywhat you did and what segwayed
you into reading this book andthis changes that you are seeing
(02:12):
in your lifestyle.
Mani Jonnalagada (02:14):
Hi everybody.
Good afternoon, Sarisha.
It's a pleasure to be here andFunny how sometimes you have an
intention and you work towardsit and things fall in place.
Sirisha wanted to a betterversion of herself in certain
aspects and I was working on itand we happened to have this
conversation and thistranspired.
So I'm excited to share some ofmy learnings and my journey.
(02:35):
It's a vast subject, but we canpick up a few.
A little bit about me.
I've been in Dallas for a while.
I have a master's in engineeringand then, I have worked for
American Airlines Travelocity,Sabre, and also in the FinTech
world, Capital One, CPRE, andMr.
Cooper, CBRE is a commercialreal estate company, but my
(02:57):
experience has been a broadrange of different industries,
but my core practice and my coreinterest and passion has always
been product management.
And for me, product managementis pivotal and we talk about it
quite a bit.
Most important thing is you.
Understand what you are tryingto build, and you understand the
(03:21):
why, and you also understandwhat outcomes you want to derive
for your business, for yourstakeholders, for your users,
and on top of it all, you alsohave to design an experience
that is delightful.
So that's what keeps me tickingin the product world.
And Thank you.
And anybody who is interested inlearning more, let me know.
(03:42):
And one of my first forays intoreally formally learning product
management was with Marty Kagan,who came and did a workshop in
Dallas many years ago.
And I follow him, and he's ourproduct management guru.
Most people know him in productmanagement.
That said, the whole thing aboutfailing fast, And, iterative
development, iterative delivery,all of these things keep coming
(04:04):
up in our day to day work day.
And then, we spend more time atwork than sometimes with our
families.
Most importantly, when we arelooking at all these, we also,
product managers, have this geneto continuously improve
ourselves.
So some of my colleagues havebeen talking about atomic
habits.
And the thing that really got mein was we are all about metrics,
(04:25):
being product managers.
It's a...
If you get better 1 percentevery day, 1 percent by the end
of 365 days in a year, you willbe 37 times better and the
converse, right?
Think about it first of all,before I go into the converse.
So just a little bit, a minorwin every day on anything that
(04:46):
you want to practice.
And then you will have a 37 foldimprovement.
That got me quite interested.
And I was like, okay, so thissounds very easy to understand,
how do we follow through, right?
A lot of things that look easy,we have to know how to execute
because things look easy becausepeople who have mastered it make
(05:07):
it look easy.
And that we know based on ourexperience.
So the converse about what hesays, if you just let it slip, a
1 percent decline every day, youmay completely your touch or
your skill or you may get tozero in whatever it is that
you're declining at the end ofthe year.
So that really got me into it.
(05:29):
So
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (05:29):
that's what hit home as well.
Yeah.
So I know we've you started withthe product management
experience and we're talkingabout atomic habits.
And I don't think this is JamesClear's example, but I remember
when someone was talking aboutflossing, they're talking about
stuff with one tooth and thenyou pick a second tooth and you
practice.
And we started our discussionlargely around exercise.
So this is a running jokebetween me and my son about
(05:52):
doing a pull up, which I cannotdo.
For those of you who can do one,kudos.
I'm going to give you a round ofapplause because that's
something on my list.
Maybe I will actually put it asa goal for the end of the year.
So I'm going to figure out howto use this atomic habit.
to get that.
So what do I have to think aboutif I want to hit it?
Essentially less than a littleover three months to be able to
do a pull up.
Mani Jonnalagada (06:12):
No, give yourself.
See, this is another thing.
We always focus on goals andresults, right?
So if you want to, if your goalis to be able to do a strong
pull up, right?
So then, the concept that reallygot me hooked is the identity,
right?
Sirisha is this person who cando pull ups.
So if you latch on to thatidentity.
What is a person who wants to bedoing multiple pull ups or a
(06:36):
pull up on the fly?
What does that look like?
And then you have to alsobelieve that is your identity,
right?
You have to really, really clueinto that identity.
I'll give you one of myexamples.
But the biggest hook for me forthis book was he talks about
this.
And I'm going to read verbatimand a lot of kudos to James
Clear.
If you have ever wondered, Whydon't I do what I say I'm going
(06:59):
to do?
Why don't they lose the weightor stop smoking or save for
retirement or start that sidebusiness?
And then he says this powerfulthing.
Why do I say something isimportant but never seem to make
the time for it, right?
They say you vote with yourtime.
And, it, it rang so true to me.
A lot of times I have amazinggoals, amazing ideas.
(07:22):
I keep n number of lists.
But then I somehow see a patternof all the mundane stuff gets
done, the important, mostimportant, most, most urgent get
done the important, just stay onthose lists forever.
So for me, the biggest thing wasI always tell my friends, I
won't look like an athlete whenyou see me, but I always say I'm
healthy, I'm fit, but the fitportion, started declining
(07:43):
recently.
I also have these challenges.
When I go hiking and stuff likethat, I feel that I'm falling
behind.
I also wanted to make sure thatI wanted to be a person who can
go hiking and not lose a breath.
So my identity, the identity Iwanted to go into is a person
who is fit, who can do multiplehours of hikes on mountains.
(08:04):
So how does that believe?
How does that person evolve fromthis person who can very easily
be a couch potato?
So I really dug deep.
Into this book and the concept.
The concept that really hit homewas your identity.
You have to believe what youwant to be.
And once you start seeingyourself as this person who's a
(08:25):
hiker, who is going to go onthese long mountain hikes, who
is going to have this adventure,then you start saying, okay, so
what do I need to do?
And I'll tell you my personalgrowth.
This and, some of these conceptsare very just intrinsic and we
all know.
However, what James does is hegives us a very clear system and
(08:47):
you can design your own systemand he gives you all the tools
to design your own system.
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (08:52):
Essentially you're saying you're building a
toolbox.
It's, I'm going to drop twoparallels here before we dive
into it.
One of the things likeentrepreneurs are always worried
about sharing their ideas.
And then what people say is, I'mnot saying give away your IP, so
there's a caveat here, I'm justclaiming.
But one thing that you have torealize is ideas can be a dime a
(09:12):
dozen, it's the execution thatcomes.
So essentially, you're in someways, you're talking about the
journey and the execution of it.
And then you and me met at thisDallas Startup Week last week,
there was an event.
And Nirav, who is the co founderco CEO of Nextdoor, was at the
event as well.
And one of the things he talkedabout there was what his
(09:33):
business coach basically saidis, I think what you said is
absolutely right.
There's a lot of mundane that,we like checking that box, it
makes us feel good, but wethat's all the minutiae.
We a really not productivething.
So his coach made him do, andactually I tried this exercise
after that.
It made me focus.
You put a hundred points onwhatever things you wanted to.
(09:53):
And see what the top threethings are and give them a
point.
If this task is the mostimportant, does it have 40
points?
And are you spending 40 percentof your time doing it?
If you're not spending theamount commensurate to that
thing to get it done, thenyou're not getting it done
enough.
So think about it from thatstandpoint, because there's so
much of the daily grind that wespend our time on, which
(10:14):
actually has very little impact.
And it's not significant impact,so you can let it go.
So in keeping that in mind, Iwant you to think about what
Mani is going to talk about the100 points and also thinking
about how you want to put yourfocus, whatever it may be, it
may not be in your career, itmay be family, it could be like
your health, whatever it is.
So walk us through how you'vebeen doing it.
(10:36):
And then I'll see what mychallenges are as I'm thinking
Mani Jonnalagada (10:39):
about it.
I'll get into it.
But you've mentioned Nirav nextdoor.
If he's talking about the coachthat.
He is referring to BillCampbell.
He's known as the trilliondollar coach.
He's no longer here.
There's an excellent book.
Any people, manager, anybody whoaspires to be a better version
of themselves as a leader or asa, as an executive or an
entrepreneur, I would highlyrecommend reading it.
(11:01):
It really ground grinds you,grounds you on how you can
escape the daily grind andreally rise above it.
So coming back to this concept,right?
So when he talked aboutidentity, right?
He talked about, Hey, a lot ofthese things are tied to your
self beliefs.
If you say, Oh, I've always beenthat way.
(11:21):
I don't know if I can do it.
I don't think I'm going to run a5K.
I've never even run a mile orI've never even walked for 30
minutes at a stretch.
If somebody is thinking thathe's talking about, Hey, you can
develop something very minor.
But be consistent.
He talks about don't worry aboutthe outcome.
Outcomes will take care of itthemselves.
But you've got to hone into theidentity.
(11:44):
So let's say I wanted to be aperson who was fit.
And for me, the definition offit was I went to this great
boot camp.
My friends recommended and we doit in the morning.
I never was a morning person.
I can be up to three in themorning and I'm a night owl.
But this bootcamp is at five inthe morning.
For me, the payoff was you'redone working out by 6 30 in the
(12:04):
morning and you paid yourselffirst.
Something that is very rewardingfor me and that worked.
So I've tried it a couple oftimes.
It worked.
And so the identity I was goingafterwards, I wanted to be a fit
person.
So the first couple of days Iwent to her class, she wanted me
to do a plank.
I had an idea of a plank, myform was all wrong.
(12:25):
I was not really holding myform.
I couldn't hold my form.
I could probably hold it formaybe two, three seconds.
So she kept correcting me andshe asked me to keep at it.
The funny thing is, you don'teven know that you're getting
stronger, but I kept going tothe class and I really wanted
to.
Say that, I'm committed togetting better and I wanna do a
(12:45):
perfect plank.
And then lo and behold, it'sbeen a year and a half now, when
we do planks, I can hold a plankfor 45 seconds to a minute and a
half, depending on how muchsleep I got the night before,
but also my mood.
But usually I would've neverthought I could be there.
How did I get there?
It's minor increments, right?
Showing up.
Showing up consistently.
(13:06):
And that's what he talks about.
So for that, We have to build ahabit.
He talks about and make itobvious, right?
So if you want to eat healthy,make it obvious, have more
fruits and vegetables in frontof you take away.
So and then make it attractive,so maybe start with the Fruits
that you like, right?
And then make it easy, right?
So just put it somewhere in yourpathway, right?
(13:27):
So if you're going towards thefridge when you're hungry, you
can put an interception pointMaybe you're going around the
counter and the fruit is rightthere So it reminds you then you
can just pick up the fruitinstead of going into the fridge
and picking up cheese or goingTo the pantry and picking up
something not healthy, but thenalso make it satisfying So maybe
you start with the fruit thatyou like the most, right?
So the four things aboutcreating a good habit or make it
(13:50):
obvious Make it attractive, makeit easy and make it satisfying.
But then you're not going to doeverything at the same time,
right?
So if you want to run amarathon, you're not going to
start running or walking twomiles or five miles a day,
right?
So you could at least startwith, I'm going to do something
for a short period of time.
He talks about two minutes,
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (14:09):
do something for two minutes.
Run down the block and comeback, go to the post box,
something small.
Absolutely.
I think that's where it is.
So I just want to remindeveryone the phone lines are
open.
This is going to be, I have afeeling we have 10 minutes on
the show left, so we're notgoing to unpack everything
today.
We'll have to come back andcontinue, but we also want to
hear what you want to havequestions.
Number is 214 817 3333.
(14:31):
You're tuned in and listening toLife Beats with Sirisha, and we
are talking about essentiallyJames Clear's book on atomic
habits, but it's beyond he'sobviously given us the framework
and everything and given us thethought process to think about
it, but it's about making oursurroundings and our systems
around us.
And I know Mani is going to talkabout hers, and I'm going to
tell you what my, I go for awalk with my neighbor sometimes,
(14:51):
and she has a hard time gettingup and, working out in the
morning.
She actually sleeps in herworkout clothes now.
I know most things probably youdo is you set it up ready to go
and you jump slide into it.
And so she said that the onlyway it works out for her is if
she goes to bed and she actuallygets up and then gets to the
office at 530 in the morning towork out.
And she set her day up.
Yeah.
Mani Jonnalagada (15:11):
So that's the implementation intention, right?
So we have many things.
I talked about how do you makeit easy, attractive.
At the end of it, it needs to besatisfying.
But then let's just say yousaid, you know what, I'm going
to work out with a friend or I'mgoing to walk 10 minutes or.
Whatever it is that you chooseor I'm going to start every time
I drink coffee, I'm going to put10 bucks into my savings
account, whatever it is that youwant to do, right?
(15:33):
So you have to have anintention, the implementation
intention, right?
And you don't have to have megainspiration, right?
You can just start withsomething small.
Maybe you want to read a book.
So instead of reading a wholebook, you could say, I'm going
to read a page, right?
That's all the implementationintention to be a reader.
If you read a page every day,you are a So start there.
(15:54):
Then have a predetermined plan.
So that's the most importantthing I found was important.
So consistency, doing the samething over and over.
He's given many examples.
And what he says is that youhave to, first of all,
standardize your behavior beforeyou can optimize it, right?
So now I have a team and this iswisdom from everybody who works
(16:17):
out.
They set out their clothes,workout clothes in the night
before.
So when you wake up without eventhinking, my routine is I just
put my workout clothes on beforeI even brush my teeth.
So immediately after I brush myteeth, I'm already ready.
to go and you're like totallyawake.
It's all ready to go.
Yeah.
And then, the fitness instructortells everybody half the battle
is getting there.
Once you get there, you'reamazed
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (16:38):
at what you're surrounded.
In some ways you have youraccountability partners, right?
That's the other part of thejourney as well.
Mani Jonnalagada (16:43):
Yeah.
And he, and also he talks abouthaving systems and culture.
So if you want to be an athlete,You have to find people who are
very athletic bent, and you needto surround yourself with that.
If you want to be a financiallysavvy person, you need to
surround yourself with that kindof a culture.
If you want to be anentrepreneur, you need to find
people who are trying to make iton their own.
(17:05):
And if you want to be a studentwho wants to really ace it and
go into some Great school orgreat career.
You absolutely need to have thatculture and environment around
you.
So you, that is the key.
And it automatically becomes theimplementation intention, right?
So you have an an intent.
(17:26):
The second thing I wanted to hithome before we run out of time
is, just start something small,but have a predetermined plan.
That's the plan, right?
For me, laying out clothes onthe bed, Before I go to bed.
So now I know in the morning,it's a predetermined plan.
So don't stray from it.
And then, all you have to do isjust execute.
And then this needs to reallythe intention nearly needs to
(17:49):
match the identity that you wantto strive for.
Second thing is you need to havea simple, easy, attractive,
satisfying plan that you cancut, repeat and can be
consistent about.
And then Always go back to yourpredetermined plan.
So once you get to a level of astandard, then you can say, you
(18:09):
know what?
I've been doing this.
Now I get up automatically.
I go to the gym.
Then you can say, you know what?
What else can I do to improve?
What?
What's the next level?
You can start
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (18:17):
thinking that.
Yeah.
And I like the satisfaction andthe happiness factor of it
because it should, whatever itis, whether it's, work out or
maybe you're not a reader, maybeyou have to do, you have to
learn something new.
I think the When you startviewing it as a chore, a
punishment, a way because wehave to do it, I think that sort
of takes the joy out of it.
And if you surround yourselfwith the right people, I think
(18:40):
they're going to push you andkeep you on track anyway.
Because when I was talking aboutthis, doing a pull up and
essentially it's about stayinghealthy.
The pull up is my measure of howhealthy am I, like you're doing
a plank as a measure of how...
How strong are you feeling?
That's it's all about.
Do I feel my strength?
Do I feel strong as a person?
(19:01):
Because oftentimes none of uscan tell from the visible
outside.
It's not just about having themuscles that they show on TV,
but it's about a different anexternal and an inner strength
as well.
And the consistency of it.
So may I
Mani Jonnalagada (19:13):
interrupt you for one thing?
You said, you said a very keything and James talks about it.
You said, I have to do this.
I have to do that.
Then it's definitely alreadyputting you on a move on a bent
of mind that is not positive.
But what he says is how amazingis it that I get to work out
with this group of people?
How amazing is it that I get to,so you make it about your
(19:33):
identity, that you get to dothis and you're getting to that
identity.
So I strongly advise everybodyto really go and.
Dream your biggest, baddestvision of your super awesome
identity and write it down.
Put it somewhere you can see andthen start working on small
things to get you there.
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (19:53):
The two things you said there.
So in some ways it's like visionboarding, put your big picture.
I, though he talks about the wayI take away his words, though
he's got different ways offraming.
It is about execution and thejoy of the journey, not just the
outcome.
But we all work with outcomes.
So it doesn't mean not don'thave a goal, have the goal, but
don't focus only on the goal.
(20:15):
And if any of you were tunedinto Simon's show right before
this, she ended the conversationwith this.
This is what her friend told herwhen he goes into a meeting or
when he's talking, he said, andI think that's why, why you were
reframing how I was saying it aswell.
Don't think about it as anegative, but replace it with a
positive word.
So you're right.
She should be thinking that Ihave to do this.
Like I like swimming.
(20:36):
So I have.
I should really look at it.
It takes me, I have to crossthis hill sometimes to think
about going swimming.
But once I enter the water and Iswim for a few days, I'm like,
why am I not doing this?
Because it's just.
So much fun.
So it's thinking about the joyof the experience or the people
that you're going to besurrounded by, or maybe it's
nature, maybe it's not evenpeople, maybe enjoying that
(20:56):
really good food.
Mani Jonnalagada (20:58):
It's interesting, a lot of times if
you focus on external factors,they help you to a certain
extent, but it really needs tobe satisfying to you internally.
So what is that thing?
So I can talk to you guys aboutmy factor of satisfaction.
Many times we are always givingcare, giving, raising Children,
working and working with ourteams, growing teams, working
(21:19):
long hours.
But then, at the end of the day,you keep hearing this.
What are you doing to loveyourself?
What are you doing for you?
And for me, the satisfaction,satisfying factor that came in
with this regimen was theroutine that I had was.
Okay, I'm paying myself first.
I did something for money first,that's the satisfying factor.
So you've got to find what makessense to
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (21:42):
you.
Yes.
And in some ways doing it firstthing in the morning is your
fill that bank balance.
So one thing I I want to makesure as they talk about
willpower.
So willpower is for many of us.
This is this has been researchon this.
It's like a it's like a waterjug.
It starts full in the morning.
And as you go at the end of theday, it starts to deplete.
So if we keep these like highintention goals at the end of
(22:02):
the day, it's very unlikely toget done, which is why we end up
eating candy bars and desert atthe end of the day when we are
hungry.
And we eat the salads in themorning.
So think about that.
That's why doing workout orsomething that is important to
you, whatever it is, it needs tobe done.
So before we go off, we have alittle over a minute money.
If someone wants to reach out toyou, what is the best way to
connect and what can they have aconversation about?
Mani Jonnalagada (22:23):
So they can connect me on LinkedIn.
Just, they just have to searchmoney and then they'll find me.
And they can talk to me about, Ialso wanted to really give back
to the society and also wantedto be a better leader and mentor
and build empathy.
So I also did some coachingwork.
So I, if somebody needs sometopic.
But they need help and coaching.
(22:44):
I can help with coaching too.
Okay.
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (22:46):
Absolutely.
So I know we've been talking shehelps in a lot of like D W H W
and a lot of other places aswell.
We are pretty much tuning out.
We will probably pick up thisconversation because I think
there's more to unpack.
You are listening to Live Peteswith Isha.
I'm your host, Dr.
Sirisha Kuchimanchi.
You can check out my podcast,Women, Career, and Life, and if
you're interested in partneringeither on leadership or enabling
(23:08):
students to, enter the corporateworld and how do you grow in
that, you can check out mywebsite, sirishakuchimanchi.
com.
I'm going to spell it and thenMani, you need to spell your
name, S I R I S H A N K U C H IM A N C H I.
I want to thank you because I'vehad to go figure out things
about my workout, but how do youspell your name?
Because you said it really fast.
Mani Jonnalagada (23:30):
It's Janalkarta.
It's J O N A L A G A D E A.
Hello.
Have you wondered how to be thebest version of yourselves?
You've been trying to make thesechanges and been struggling with
it and trying to figure it out.
Hello, everyone.
This is a gorgeous Thursdayafternoon.
Can you believe it's only 80, 70degrees out there?
It's actually it's like a coldfront.
Welcome to Live Beats withSirisha on Radio Caravan.
(00:21):
I'm your host, Dr.
Sirisha Kuchmanchi, a formersemiconductor tech executive, an
entrepreneur, and a speaker.
I host the podcast Women,Career, and Life.
You can check it out on any ofyour favorite podcast platforms.
It basically talks about Howwomen can grow into, how do you
elevate yourself into leadershiproles and also become
financially empowered?
I also do keynote speaking fororganizations and universities
(00:45):
on basically enabling people toget into leadership roles and
for graduate students to enterthe corporate world and become
financially empowered as well.
If you're interested inpartnering with me or learning
more about what I do, check outmy website, Sirisha Kuchimanchi.
I'm going to spell it outbecause it's a mouthful.
S I R I S H A K U C H I M A N CH I.
(01:09):
I always like to hear fromfolks, so you can DM me on
LinkedIn.
But let's dive into today'stopic, because I have so much to
learn.
Today's topic, we have ManiJanagadda joining us.
She is a product tech exec.
And her experience is in productmanagement, and she's worked at
many companies, CBRE, CapitalOne, Sabre the breadth is so
(01:30):
phenomenal.
Mani is going to briefly touchon that, but really she's going
to talk about this book she'sbeen reading called Atomic
Habits by James Clear.
I've heard of it.
I've seen snippets.
I've read it a bit, but I thinkthat's things I need to learn.
So we're going to have aconversation.
But more importantly, as always,the phone lines are going to be
open.
Call in with your questions,call in how you are making the
change or how you're thinkingabout it or what challenge you
(01:52):
might be having.
The number is 214 817 3333.
I hope you call into the phoneline number again, 214 817 3333.
So let's welcome money today.
I'm so excited for thisconversation money.
Thank you for being here.
Why don't you start with brieflywhat you did and what segwayed
you into reading this book andthis changes that you are seeing
(02:12):
in your lifestyle.
Mani Jonnalagada (02:14):
Hi everybody.
Good afternoon, Sarisha.
It's a pleasure to be here andFunny how sometimes you have an
intention and you work towardsit and things fall in place.
Sirisha wanted to a betterversion of herself in certain
aspects and I was working on itand we happened to have this
conversation and thistranspired.
So I'm excited to share some ofmy learnings and my journey.
(02:35):
It's a vast subject, but we canpick up a few.
A little bit about me.
I've been in Dallas for a while.
I have a master's in engineeringand then, I have worked for
American Airlines Travelocity,Sabre, and also in the FinTech
world, Capital One, CPRE, andMr.
Cooper, CBRE is a commercialreal estate company, but my
(02:57):
experience has been a broadrange of different industries,
but my core practice and my coreinterest and passion has always
been product management.
And for me, product managementis pivotal and we talk about it
quite a bit.
Most important thing is you.
Understand what you are tryingto build, and you understand the
(03:21):
why, and you also understandwhat outcomes you want to derive
for your business, for yourstakeholders, for your users,
and on top of it all, you alsohave to design an experience
that is delightful.
So that's what keeps me tickingin the product world.
And Thank you.
And anybody who is interested inlearning more, let me know.
(03:42):
And one of my first forays intoreally formally learning product
management was with Marty Kagan,who came and did a workshop in
Dallas many years ago.
And I follow him, and he's ourproduct management guru.
Most people know him in productmanagement.
That said, the whole thing aboutfailing fast, And, iterative
development, iterative delivery,all of these things keep coming
(04:04):
up in our day to day work day.
And then, we spend more time atwork than sometimes with our
families.
Most importantly, when we arelooking at all these, we also,
product managers, have this geneto continuously improve
ourselves.
So some of my colleagues havebeen talking about atomic
habits.
And the thing that really got mein was we are all about metrics,
(04:25):
being product managers.
It's a...
If you get better 1 percentevery day, 1 percent by the end
of 365 days in a year, you willbe 37 times better and the
converse, right?
Think about it first of all,before I go into the converse.
So just a little bit, a minorwin every day on anything that
(04:46):
you want to practice.
And then you will have a 37 foldimprovement.
That got me quite interested.
And I was like, okay, so thissounds very easy to understand,
how do we follow through, right?
A lot of things that look easy,we have to know how to execute
because things look easy becausepeople who have mastered it make
(05:07):
it look easy.
And that we know based on ourexperience.
So the converse about what hesays, if you just let it slip, a
1 percent decline every day, youmay completely your touch or
your skill or you may get tozero in whatever it is that
you're declining at the end ofthe year.
So that really got me into it.
(05:29):
So
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (05:29):
that's what hit home as well.
Yeah.
So I know we've you started withthe product management
experience and we're talkingabout atomic habits.
And I don't think this is JamesClear's example, but I remember
when someone was talking aboutflossing, they're talking about
stuff with one tooth and thenyou pick a second tooth and you
practice.
And we started our discussionlargely around exercise.
So this is a running jokebetween me and my son about
(05:52):
doing a pull up, which I cannotdo.
For those of you who can do one,kudos.
I'm going to give you a round ofapplause because that's
something on my list.
Maybe I will actually put it asa goal for the end of the year.
So I'm going to figure out howto use this atomic habit.
to get that.
So what do I have to think aboutif I want to hit it?
Essentially less than a littleover three months to be able to
do a pull up.
Mani Jonnalagada (06:12):
No, give yourself.
See, this is another thing.
We always focus on goals andresults, right?
So if you want to, if your goalis to be able to do a strong
pull up, right?
So then, the concept that reallygot me hooked is the identity,
right?
Sirisha is this person who cando pull ups.
So if you latch on to thatidentity.
What is a person who wants to bedoing multiple pull ups or a
(06:36):
pull up on the fly?
What does that look like?
And then you have to alsobelieve that is your identity,
right?
You have to really, really clueinto that identity.
I'll give you one of myexamples.
But the biggest hook for me forthis book was he talks about
this.
And I'm going to read verbatimand a lot of kudos to James
Clear.
If you have ever wondered, Whydon't I do what I say I'm going
(06:59):
to do?
Why don't they lose the weightor stop smoking or save for
retirement or start that sidebusiness?
And then he says this powerfulthing.
Why do I say something isimportant but never seem to make
the time for it, right?
They say you vote with yourtime.
And, it, it rang so true to me.
A lot of times I have amazinggoals, amazing ideas.
(07:22):
I keep n number of lists.
But then I somehow see a patternof all the mundane stuff gets
done, the important, mostimportant, most, most urgent get
done the important, just stay onthose lists forever.
So for me, the biggest thing wasI always tell my friends, I
won't look like an athlete whenyou see me, but I always say I'm
healthy, I'm fit, but the fitportion, started declining
(07:43):
recently.
I also have these challenges.
When I go hiking and stuff likethat, I feel that I'm falling
behind.
I also wanted to make sure thatI wanted to be a person who can
go hiking and not lose a breath.
So my identity, the identity Iwanted to go into is a person
who is fit, who can do multiplehours of hikes on mountains.
(08:04):
So how does that believe?
How does that person evolve fromthis person who can very easily
be a couch potato?
So I really dug deep.
Into this book and the concept.
The concept that really hit homewas your identity.
You have to believe what youwant to be.
And once you start seeingyourself as this person who's a
(08:25):
hiker, who is going to go onthese long mountain hikes, who
is going to have this adventure,then you start saying, okay, so
what do I need to do?
And I'll tell you my personalgrowth.
This and, some of these conceptsare very just intrinsic and we
all know.
However, what James does is hegives us a very clear system and
(08:47):
you can design your own systemand he gives you all the tools
to design your own system.
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (08:52):
Essentially you're saying you're building a
toolbox.
It's, I'm going to drop twoparallels here before we dive
into it.
One of the things likeentrepreneurs are always worried
about sharing their ideas.
And then what people say is, I'mnot saying give away your IP, so
there's a caveat here, I'm justclaiming.
But one thing that you have torealize is ideas can be a dime a
(09:12):
dozen, it's the execution thatcomes.
So essentially, you're in someways, you're talking about the
journey and the execution of it.
And then you and me met at thisDallas Startup Week last week,
there was an event.
And Nirav, who is the co founderco CEO of Nextdoor, was at the
event as well.
And one of the things he talkedabout there was what his
(09:33):
business coach basically saidis, I think what you said is
absolutely right.
There's a lot of mundane that,we like checking that box, it
makes us feel good, but wethat's all the minutiae.
We a really not productivething.
So his coach made him do, andactually I tried this exercise
after that.
It made me focus.
You put a hundred points onwhatever things you wanted to.
(09:53):
And see what the top threethings are and give them a
point.
If this task is the mostimportant, does it have 40
points?
And are you spending 40 percentof your time doing it?
If you're not spending theamount commensurate to that
thing to get it done, thenyou're not getting it done
enough.
So think about it from thatstandpoint, because there's so
much of the daily grind that wespend our time on, which
(10:14):
actually has very little impact.
And it's not significant impact,so you can let it go.
So in keeping that in mind, Iwant you to think about what
Mani is going to talk about the100 points and also thinking
about how you want to put yourfocus, whatever it may be, it
may not be in your career, itmay be family, it could be like
your health, whatever it is.
So walk us through how you'vebeen doing it.
(10:36):
And then I'll see what mychallenges are as I'm thinking
Mani Jonnalagada (10:39):
about it.
I'll get into it.
But you've mentioned Nirav nextdoor.
If he's talking about the coachthat.
He is referring to BillCampbell.
He's known as the trilliondollar coach.
He's no longer here.
There's an excellent book.
Any people, manager, anybody whoaspires to be a better version
of themselves as a leader or asa, as an executive or an
entrepreneur, I would highlyrecommend reading it.
(11:01):
It really ground grinds you,grounds you on how you can
escape the daily grind andreally rise above it.
So coming back to this concept,right?
So when he talked aboutidentity, right?
He talked about, Hey, a lot ofthese things are tied to your
self beliefs.
If you say, Oh, I've always beenthat way.
(11:21):
I don't know if I can do it.
I don't think I'm going to run a5K.
I've never even run a mile orI've never even walked for 30
minutes at a stretch.
If somebody is thinking thathe's talking about, Hey, you can
develop something very minor.
But be consistent.
He talks about don't worry aboutthe outcome.
Outcomes will take care of itthemselves.
But you've got to hone into theidentity.
(11:44):
So let's say I wanted to be aperson who was fit.
And for me, the definition offit was I went to this great
boot camp.
My friends recommended and we doit in the morning.
I never was a morning person.
I can be up to three in themorning and I'm a night owl.
But this bootcamp is at five inthe morning.
For me, the payoff was you'redone working out by 6 30 in the
(12:04):
morning and you paid yourselffirst.
Something that is very rewardingfor me and that worked.
So I've tried it a couple oftimes.
It worked.
And so the identity I was goingafterwards, I wanted to be a fit
person.
So the first couple of days Iwent to her class, she wanted me
to do a plank.
I had an idea of a plank, myform was all wrong.
(12:25):
I was not really holding myform.
I couldn't hold my form.
I could probably hold it formaybe two, three seconds.
So she kept correcting me andshe asked me to keep at it.
The funny thing is, you don'teven know that you're getting
stronger, but I kept going tothe class and I really wanted
to.
Say that, I'm committed togetting better and I wanna do a
(12:45):
perfect plank.
And then lo and behold, it'sbeen a year and a half now, when
we do planks, I can hold a plankfor 45 seconds to a minute and a
half, depending on how muchsleep I got the night before,
but also my mood.
But usually I would've neverthought I could be there.
How did I get there?
It's minor increments, right?
Showing up.
Showing up consistently.
(13:06):
And that's what he talks about.
So for that, We have to build ahabit.
He talks about and make itobvious, right?
So if you want to eat healthy,make it obvious, have more
fruits and vegetables in frontof you take away.
So and then make it attractive,so maybe start with the Fruits
that you like, right?
And then make it easy, right?
So just put it somewhere in yourpathway, right?
(13:27):
So if you're going towards thefridge when you're hungry, you
can put an interception pointMaybe you're going around the
counter and the fruit is rightthere So it reminds you then you
can just pick up the fruitinstead of going into the fridge
and picking up cheese or goingTo the pantry and picking up
something not healthy, but thenalso make it satisfying So maybe
you start with the fruit thatyou like the most, right?
So the four things aboutcreating a good habit or make it
(13:50):
obvious Make it attractive, makeit easy and make it satisfying.
But then you're not going to doeverything at the same time,
right?
So if you want to run amarathon, you're not going to
start running or walking twomiles or five miles a day,
right?
So you could at least startwith, I'm going to do something
for a short period of time.
He talks about two minutes,
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (14:09):
do something for two minutes.
Run down the block and comeback, go to the post box,
something small.
Absolutely.
I think that's where it is.
So I just want to remindeveryone the phone lines are
open.
This is going to be, I have afeeling we have 10 minutes on
the show left, so we're notgoing to unpack everything
today.
We'll have to come back andcontinue, but we also want to
hear what you want to havequestions.
Number is 214 817 3333.
(14:31):
You're tuned in and listening toLife Beats with Sirisha, and we
are talking about essentiallyJames Clear's book on atomic
habits, but it's beyond he'sobviously given us the framework
and everything and given us thethought process to think about
it, but it's about making oursurroundings and our systems
around us.
And I know Mani is going to talkabout hers, and I'm going to
tell you what my, I go for awalk with my neighbor sometimes,
(14:51):
and she has a hard time gettingup and, working out in the
morning.
She actually sleeps in herworkout clothes now.
I know most things probably youdo is you set it up ready to go
and you jump slide into it.
And so she said that the onlyway it works out for her is if
she goes to bed and she actuallygets up and then gets to the
office at 530 in the morning towork out.
And she set her day up.
Yeah.
Mani Jonnalagada (15:11):
So that's the implementation intention, right?
So we have many things.
I talked about how do you makeit easy, attractive.
At the end of it, it needs to besatisfying.
But then let's just say yousaid, you know what, I'm going
to work out with a friend or I'mgoing to walk 10 minutes or.
Whatever it is that you chooseor I'm going to start every time
I drink coffee, I'm going to put10 bucks into my savings
account, whatever it is that youwant to do, right?
(15:33):
So you have to have anintention, the implementation
intention, right?
And you don't have to have megainspiration, right?
You can just start withsomething small.
Maybe you want to read a book.
So instead of reading a wholebook, you could say, I'm going
to read a page, right?
That's all the implementationintention to be a reader.
If you read a page every day,you are a So start there.
(15:54):
Then have a predetermined plan.
So that's the most importantthing I found was important.
So consistency, doing the samething over and over.
He's given many examples.
And what he says is that youhave to, first of all,
standardize your behavior beforeyou can optimize it, right?
So now I have a team and this iswisdom from everybody who works
(16:17):
out.
They set out their clothes,workout clothes in the night
before.
So when you wake up without eventhinking, my routine is I just
put my workout clothes on beforeI even brush my teeth.
So immediately after I brush myteeth, I'm already ready.
to go and you're like totallyawake.
It's all ready to go.
Yeah.
And then, the fitness instructortells everybody half the battle
is getting there.
Once you get there, you'reamazed
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (16:38):
at what you're surrounded.
In some ways you have youraccountability partners, right?
That's the other part of thejourney as well.
Mani Jonnalagada (16:43):
Yeah.
And he, and also he talks abouthaving systems and culture.
So if you want to be an athlete,You have to find people who are
very athletic bent, and you needto surround yourself with that.
If you want to be a financiallysavvy person, you need to
surround yourself with that kindof a culture.
If you want to be anentrepreneur, you need to find
people who are trying to make iton their own.
(17:05):
And if you want to be a studentwho wants to really ace it and
go into some Great school orgreat career.
You absolutely need to have thatculture and environment around
you.
So you, that is the key.
And it automatically becomes theimplementation intention, right?
So you have an an intent.
(17:26):
The second thing I wanted to hithome before we run out of time
is, just start something small,but have a predetermined plan.
That's the plan, right?
For me, laying out clothes onthe bed, Before I go to bed.
So now I know in the morning,it's a predetermined plan.
So don't stray from it.
And then, all you have to do isjust execute.
And then this needs to reallythe intention nearly needs to
(17:49):
match the identity that you wantto strive for.
Second thing is you need to havea simple, easy, attractive,
satisfying plan that you cancut, repeat and can be
consistent about.
And then Always go back to yourpredetermined plan.
So once you get to a level of astandard, then you can say, you
(18:09):
know what?
I've been doing this.
Now I get up automatically.
I go to the gym.
Then you can say, you know what?
What else can I do to improve?
What?
What's the next level?
You can start
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (18:17):
thinking that.
Yeah.
And I like the satisfaction andthe happiness factor of it
because it should, whatever itis, whether it's, work out or
maybe you're not a reader, maybeyou have to do, you have to
learn something new.
I think the When you startviewing it as a chore, a
punishment, a way because wehave to do it, I think that sort
of takes the joy out of it.
And if you surround yourselfwith the right people, I think
(18:40):
they're going to push you andkeep you on track anyway.
Because when I was talking aboutthis, doing a pull up and
essentially it's about stayinghealthy.
The pull up is my measure of howhealthy am I, like you're doing
a plank as a measure of how...
How strong are you feeling?
That's it's all about.
Do I feel my strength?
Do I feel strong as a person?
(19:01):
Because oftentimes none of uscan tell from the visible
outside.
It's not just about having themuscles that they show on TV,
but it's about a different anexternal and an inner strength
as well.
And the consistency of it.
So may I
Mani Jonnalagada (19:13):
interrupt you for one thing?
You said, you said a very keything and James talks about it.
You said, I have to do this.
I have to do that.
Then it's definitely alreadyputting you on a move on a bent
of mind that is not positive.
But what he says is how amazingis it that I get to work out
with this group of people?
How amazing is it that I get to,so you make it about your
(19:33):
identity, that you get to dothis and you're getting to that
identity.
So I strongly advise everybodyto really go and.
Dream your biggest, baddestvision of your super awesome
identity and write it down.
Put it somewhere you can see andthen start working on small
things to get you there.
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (19:53):
The two things you said there.
So in some ways it's like visionboarding, put your big picture.
I, though he talks about the wayI take away his words, though
he's got different ways offraming.
It is about execution and thejoy of the journey, not just the
outcome.
But we all work with outcomes.
So it doesn't mean not don'thave a goal, have the goal, but
don't focus only on the goal.
(20:15):
And if any of you were tunedinto Simon's show right before
this, she ended the conversationwith this.
This is what her friend told herwhen he goes into a meeting or
when he's talking, he said, andI think that's why, why you were
reframing how I was saying it aswell.
Don't think about it as anegative, but replace it with a
positive word.
So you're right.
She should be thinking that Ihave to do this.
Like I like swimming.
(20:36):
So I have.
I should really look at it.
It takes me, I have to crossthis hill sometimes to think
about going swimming.
But once I enter the water and Iswim for a few days, I'm like,
why am I not doing this?
Because it's just.
So much fun.
So it's thinking about the joyof the experience or the people
that you're going to besurrounded by, or maybe it's
nature, maybe it's not evenpeople, maybe enjoying that
(20:56):
really good food.
Mani Jonnalagada (20:58):
It's interesting, a lot of times if
you focus on external factors,they help you to a certain
extent, but it really needs tobe satisfying to you internally.
So what is that thing?
So I can talk to you guys aboutmy factor of satisfaction.
Many times we are always givingcare, giving, raising Children,
working and working with ourteams, growing teams, working
(21:19):
long hours.
But then, at the end of the day,you keep hearing this.
What are you doing to loveyourself?
What are you doing for you?
And for me, the satisfaction,satisfying factor that came in
with this regimen was theroutine that I had was.
Okay, I'm paying myself first.
I did something for money first,that's the satisfying factor.
So you've got to find what makessense to
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (21:42):
you.
Yes.
And in some ways doing it firstthing in the morning is your
fill that bank balance.
So one thing I I want to makesure as they talk about
willpower.
So willpower is for many of us.
This is this has been researchon this.
It's like a it's like a waterjug.
It starts full in the morning.
And as you go at the end of theday, it starts to deplete.
So if we keep these like highintention goals at the end of
(22:02):
the day, it's very unlikely toget done, which is why we end up
eating candy bars and desert atthe end of the day when we are
hungry.
And we eat the salads in themorning.
So think about that.
That's why doing workout orsomething that is important to
you, whatever it is, it needs tobe done.
So before we go off, we have alittle over a minute money.
If someone wants to reach out toyou, what is the best way to
connect and what can they have aconversation about?
Mani Jonnalagada (22:23):
So they can connect me on LinkedIn.
Just, they just have to searchmoney and then they'll find me.
And they can talk to me about, Ialso wanted to really give back
to the society and also wantedto be a better leader and mentor
and build empathy.
So I also did some coachingwork.
So I, if somebody needs sometopic.
But they need help and coaching.
(22:44):
I can help with coaching too.
Okay.
Sirisha Kuchimanchi (22:46):
Absolutely.
So I know we've been talking shehelps in a lot of like D W H W
and a lot of other places aswell.
We are pretty much tuning out.
We will probably pick up thisconversation because I think
there's more to unpack.
You are listening to Live Peteswith Isha.
I'm your host, Dr.
Sirisha Kuchimanchi.
You can check out my podcast,Women, Career, and Life, and if
you're interested in partneringeither on leadership or enabling
(23:08):
students to, enter the corporateworld and how do you grow in
that, you can check out mywebsite, sirishakuchimanchi.
com.
I'm going to spell it and thenMani, you need to spell your
name, S I R I S H A N K U C H IM A N C H I.
I want to thank you because I'vehad to go figure out things
about my workout, but how do youspell your name?
Because you said it really fast.
Mani Jonnalagada (23:30):
It's Janalkarta.
It's J O N A L A G A D E A.
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