September 18, 2024 • 36 mins
Dori's long-term consulting job had ended and her next-door neighbor Khori Petinaud's Facebook post about the urge toward negative thinking as her show, Lempicka, was closing struck a chord. Khori talks about choosing faith over fear, a lesson that took Dori years and a coaching certification to learn.
Khori shares her journey to becoming a Broadway dancer and performer, from her traditional ballet roots to the experimental world of downtown dance during her NYU days and the instability inherent in an artist's career, insights that resonate with Dori's childhood dreams to be a musical theater performer.
She reflects on her single mother's influence, a woman who pursued her dreams in cosmetics with relentless ambition, shaping Khori's views on success and parenting. Khori also opens up about the challenges she faced as a
Black ballet dancer, about her struggles with body image and disordered eating and how she's developed a healthier relationship with food.
The episode explores the courage it takes to chase dreams, even as they change, the shaping of a balanced life, being an artist in NYC, and how, in trusting the process, new connections are made.
Follow Khori
X @khorirpetinaud | Instagram @kmr8787
TW: This episode contains a discussion of suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling, please listen with care. In the United States, the suicide help line to call is the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline. You can reach them by dialing #988
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LinkedIn: Dori Fern
Email me: lifechangingwithdorifern@gmail.com
Visit https://dorifern.com for more about Dori's coaching services and to sign up for a complimentary call.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dori Fern (00:00):
I've been trying to put my finger on the central
through line of thisconversation with Kh performer
, who is also my next doorneighbor.
It was a Facebook post shewrote, which I read back to her
at the start of our talk.
You'll hear that in a moment.
That initially sparked myinterest to have her on the
podcast podcast.
(00:20):
I was struck by the insight sheshared about negative thinking.
As the show she was in was aboutto close, my own job was ending
at the same time, leaving meagain, like during my sabbatical
, filled with plans, some decentsavings, but no clear source of
(00:41):
new income.
No clear source of new income,and at 36, Corey articulated
this idea that took me over 50years and a coaching
certification to understand andput into practice that we are
not our thoughts and that we canchoose not to move from a place
of fear and lacking.
There's something else, though,but let's start there.
(01:06):
Welcome to Life Changing withDori Fern a podcast about who we
are, where we're going and whatconnects us.
It's a show for people inprogress at any stage.
Khori Petinaud (01:29):
Watching my mother navigate motherhood and
also being an extremelysuccessful woman, informed what
I knew was possible for myselfhello everyone.
Dori Fern (01:54):
Today I have cory petno on the podcast.
Welcome, cory, thank you.
Cory is a new york city-basedperformer, educator, wife and
mom.
She has been in many shows onBroadway Lempicka, aladdin, the
musical Moulin Rouge, themusical Chicago, the musical and
her Broadway principal debut inthe company of Bob Fosse's
(02:14):
Danson was where she landed aChita Rivera award nomination
for Outstanding Dancer in aBroadway Show, as well as a win
Outstanding Ensemble in aBroadway Show.
She has TV credits that includeUp here, rent, live, the
Marvelous Mrs Maisel, vinyl, theNick, and I just have to say
(02:38):
she's also the best neighborwith the absolutely cutest son,
and her husband's cute too, buther son Carver, is pretty
incredible.
Khori Petinaud (02:47):
So welcome to the show, Corey.
Thank you for having me.
Dori Fern (02:51):
Okay.
So before we get started, youand your illustrious self, I'm
going to read you something, andthis is the Facebook post from
April 12th.
You ever notice how it's somuch easier to worry than it is
to trust?
I was thinking about thisyesterday because I've been
navigating life and all itsdualities and complexities.
My life is a lifing in thewildest of ways and I've been
(03:16):
meeting some unexpectedchallenges.
Recently.
I had a bit of time to reflectand take stock of what emotions
were coming up for me, and itwas so interesting to be an
observer of my thoughts.
I rarely take the time to dothat, but as I observed, I
noticed how badly I wanted tocling to negativity and worry.
(03:37):
When a negative thought came up, I had to actively resist the
urge to let my mind wander downthe what-if path of cynicism.
I found it fascinating how muchI had to muscle my way to faith
, but in the same breath, Ididn't have to fight too long
before I was reminded that I'vebeen in this place before and
I've made it out even betterthan I could have imagined.
(04:00):
There's nothing new under thesun.
Any challenge we face, we'velikely faced it before.
We just have to be willing totussle with our fear-driven
thoughts rather than justaccepting them as truth.
We have to silence the noiseenough to see clearly that
everything is in divine order.
This is way easier said thandone, but just sharing for
(04:24):
anyone who may need a reminder.
Love y'all.
So what was going on for youwhen you wrote this and how does
it?
What does it bring up for youhearing it again?
Khori Petinaud (04:35):
Oh it's wild to hear it again.
I'm still very much in thatplace my show I was in Lempicka
at the time, which is now closed, but it was feeling like things
were winding in a way thatwasn't necessarily the most
positive in terms of thelongevity of the show.
And you know, that was a reallychallenging time and still is a
(04:55):
challenging time because Ithink for artists, our life is
constantly in flux.
We don't really necessarilyhave that consistency
financially, and even justknowing where we're going every
day can change, and so I wasreally looking forward to just a
little bit of stationary lifeand I just found myself really
(05:17):
contemplating about all thesewhat-ifs in the future and what
if this happens, and what ifthis happens?
What if this happens, and whatif this happens?
What if this happens?
And it was fascinating to beable to see myself really
desiring comfort in thenegativity.
Like it was something that Iwas paused long enough to really
feel myself really wanting tolatch on to the show's going to
(05:39):
close and then I'm not going toget another job, and then and
then and then and then and thenTypically when I'm going through
moments that I feel are youknow, something that could be
relatable.
I usually post something onsocial media because I feel like
oftentimes it resonates with alot of people.
Dori Fern (05:55):
When the whole Broadway performer thing ends,
you have a career as a coach,because, honestly, quite a bit
older than you and it's taken mea lot longer to figure all of
this out, but it is the veryfoundation of the work that I do
.
So thank you for summarizingthat so nicely.
My most obvious connection withCorey is that she is living out
(06:17):
my childhood dream of being amusical theater performer.
I started dancing when I wasthree tap, ballet and jazz and
spent most Saturdays in myadolescence until I was about 16
at Miss Dorothy School of Danceon 233rd Street and White
Plains Road in the Bronx.
(06:38):
I sang too, mostly in the backof my parents' banana-colored
Plymouth station wagon in summercamp shows or alone in my
bedroom 70s singer-songwriterpop mostly.
It was my greatest escape anddeepest joy and performing well.
(07:01):
That started when I was pickedto represent my 7th grade middle
school in the New York CityStorytelling Contest, one of
many great arts programs forpublic school kids that once
existed here.
I was the Bronx winner andrunner-up in the city, coming in
second to the only boy in myage group who competed.
(07:22):
Boy in my age group whocompeted.
This win put me on the path toaudition for, and get accepted
to, the drama program at theHigh School of Performing Arts,
where I started about a monthafter the movie Fame was
released, but that's a wholenother story.
I know this is true of Broadwayshows in general, but you're
signing autographs for peopleand you have people who are
(07:43):
there and it's just like thereis a degree of fame in a way.
And then, of course, we wenthome on the two train, and
that's the reality too.
How does all of that feel?
What is it like?
Khori Petinaud (07:56):
I'm a Leo, so I like being the center of
attention.
Oh, I guess so many, leo.
Dori Fern (08:02):
That's so tracks.
When's your birthday, august7th?
Okay, what do you hear fromother people that you have given
them?
Khori Petinaud (08:11):
I'm not necessarily putting every single
thing that I'm experiencing onsocial media, but I found it to
be really therapeutic andhelpful for me to put my
feelings into words and try tosummarize what I was
experiencing.
It's been really beautiful tofeel that so many people are
grateful that I have normalizedexperiences that they may be
(08:33):
going through in their own lives.
Personally, I want to go back abit.
Dori Fern (08:37):
Tell me a bit about where you grew up, how you made
your way into this world.
Khori Petinaud (08:43):
I grew up all over the place.
I was born in Atlanta, georgia,and then throughout my
adolescence my mother wasgetting a series of promotions
and she was, like in her bossera, getting very successful in
her career, and so it was askingher to move quite frequently.
My mom works in sales andmarketing for a company called
(09:05):
Color Me Beautiful, a cosmeticscompany.
We moved from Atlanta toChicago and then I lived in
Chicago for about four years andthat was from like around the
time when I turned like eight orsomething.
Those were pivotal years, verypivotal, so I was not very
rooted as a child and might notbe a terrible thing going into
the field that you're in?
(09:25):
Definitely it definitely makesit easier for me to live that
nomad life.
I didn't really have to becauseWayne and I got married when I
was so young, but I am notuncomfortable with that of
having to move and do that thing.
But yes, we lived in Chicagofor a while and then when my mom
got another job opportunitythat was going to cause her to
(09:46):
have to travel like every week,she thought it was going to be
best if I go back to Atlanta andstay with my dad for the year
while she was figuring that out.
So I went back to Atlanta for Ibelieve it was sixth grade
while she was doing that andthen, once she was settled in
Virginia, then I moved with herto Virginia and Virginia is
where I went to middle schooland high school.
(10:07):
So that's kind of where I say Igrew up, Because that's where I
was like expanding into mywomanhood and being a grumpy
teenager and all the things inVirginia.
So you were about 13, 12?
Yeah, 12 or 13.
Right around puberty, yeah,which is fun, fun time, and yeah
.
So that's where I graduatedfrom high school.
(10:28):
And when I was there is when Iactually got very serious about
my dance training, because Ididn't start dancing very
seriously, like taking classregularly until I was 13.
Oh, okay, so my mom put me inballet and I started going to
summer programs and all of thatand then only wanted to be a
ballet dancer.
That was like what my focus was.
I wanted to be a dance leaderof Harlem.
After she took me to see themat the Kennedy Center, it
(10:50):
changed my life.
Take me back to that time beingthat person.
Yes, they did Firebird at theKennedy Center and I was like
this is the most incrediblething I've ever seen.
They were all black and brownballet dancers.
I don't even know if beforethat I'd ever even seen ballet,
but there are pictures of mewhen I was like three or four
(11:11):
years old in like tutus jumpingaround.
I just felt like it was verymuch divine, Like the dancing
for me was divine.
But the training came so muchlater because my dad wanted me
to be Serena Williams, so I wasplaying tennis and I was doing
all those things.
Dori Fern (11:27):
And by the way, everyone, this is not a video
podcast, but the guns on thislady are unbelievable.
I mean her arms.
Khori Petinaud (11:35):
No, she's not carrying guns.
Dori Fern (11:37):
Not that I'm aware of , no.
And also the other littletidbit.
Being her neighbor, I can tellyou if you're working out next
to her in the gym, do not talkto her.
She does not want to.
I'm in the zone.
She is in the zone.
Not interested in that.
Khori Petinaud (11:54):
I'm fully in the zone.
Dori Fern (11:56):
So we're in the.
It was in the Kennedy Center.
Khori Petinaud (11:58):
Yes, we are in the Kennedy Center and I'm
watching.
Dori Fern (12:01):
Firebird you have performed, by the way.
Khori Petinaud (12:03):
I have performed there.
Yes, I've performed theremultiple times as a teenager
also.
Dori Fern (12:08):
To see this.
You're there.
Khori Petinaud (12:09):
Yes, I'm there and I'm like watching it and I'm
seeing all of these blackballerinas, like women who look
like me and have body shapeslike me, because that was a big
thing too is like the way I'mbuilt and because I played
sports, like I am built, verylike I'm muscular.
I've always been muscular.
I haven't always been as cut asI am now, but I've always just
(12:31):
had like thicker thighs and allof that.
And I never saw anyone wholooked like me or had a body
shape like mine, on point anddoing ballet.
And when my mom took me to seeit, I just sat there and I was
like dumbfounded the whole time,like this is amazing.
And we walked out and I told mymommy I want to do ballet, I
(12:51):
want to go to Dance Theatre ofHarlem.
And that summer I did.
And the rest was history.
My mom let me come to New YorkCity by myself.
I stayed with a host family.
She hosted six of us like youngballet dancers whose parents
financially couldn't get ustheir own place but wanted us to
(13:12):
have the experience.
And I fell in love with NewYork that summer.
So from there I honed my ballettraining super strong and then
by the time I got to my junioryear where you're like trying to
figure out colleges and stuff Iknew that the ballet dream that
I had was probably no longergoing to be realistic for me,
(13:33):
because 16 and 17 is like yourprime as a ballet dancer, and I
knew that education was reallyimportant to me.
I wanted to go to college.
I wasn't necessarily interestedin just moving to New York and
auditioning for ballet companies.
I wanted to go to school.
And so I was like all right, Ilove ballet, but I have to just
(13:53):
trust that I'm not going to bedoing it in the way that
everybody else does it and I'mjust going to audition for these
college programs for dance andsee where I land.
And I ended up getting acceptedinto NYU.
And so then I moved to New Yorkand I started college and was a
dance major and a double minorin law and society and religious
(14:14):
studies.
Dori Fern (14:15):
I was a religious studies major Were you, yeah,
yeah.
Khori Petinaud (14:18):
I was originally a psych major.
Dori Fern (14:20):
But then I was like I don't care what Freud and Jung
had to say but I really wantedto understand human behavior and
psychology.
And I thought I would learnthat more from comparative
religion.
Khori Petinaud (14:31):
Yes, okay, yeah, that's very cool.
Yeah, I felt similarly.
I just was interested in.
You know, I grew up in thechurch too, so I had a
fascination about combining thereligions of multiple cultures
and understanding how thatinforms their experience in the
world, how they view the world,how they see other people.
(14:54):
So, yeah, I mean, nyu reallyallowed me the opportunity to
expand my mind as an academic,but then also I was in a
conservatory program for dance,so I was able to get like really
insanely amazing training.
But my training was flipped onits head at NYU because it was
very downtown.
Here in New York City it's likethe downtown dancers like
(15:17):
they're the dancers that do theweird stuff.
They're like crawling on thefloor.
Yeah, the modern dancersthey're like not wearing any
clothes and they're standing onthe stage with like pig blood
and screaming.
And the uptown dancers are likeNew York City Ballet and the
Broadway dancers, and thosepeople are like a different type
of person.
And so it's interesting becauseI felt like a fish out of water
for a good portion of mycollege experience.
(15:38):
I was like wearing my hair in abun to hip hop class.
You know, I didn't know aboutall these other forms of dance
in terms of studying them,really studying them, because I
was so focused on ballet, and soit really changed my outlook on
dance during my time in collegeand it expanded my vocabulary.
Obviously, and really, I thinkat the time I didn't fully
(15:59):
appreciate how expansive it mademe, but now, as 36 year old, I
can look back and be like I'm sothankful that I did have that
diversity of training, becauseBroadway is just asking dancers
to be able to do so many thingsnow, and I felt like I had a lot
of tools in my toolbox fromthat experience.
Dori Fern (16:18):
Have you always been a super disciplined and focused
person.
Khori Petinaud (16:23):
Have you always been a super disciplined and
focused person?
Yeah, I feel like I have verydisciplined sides, but I also
have sides of myself that arenot.
I think I struggled a lot withanything that I don't feel a
fire or a passion around.
I always did well in school,but I did well in school because
I knew I had to do well.
It wasn't necessarily a drivenlike I'm going to be the best in
(16:46):
the class.
Dori Fern (16:46):
So, in other words, you didn't care about being an,
a student.
Khori Petinaud (16:49):
No, I didn't care about that, but I do think
I have perfectionist tendenciesand so it worked to my advantage
a lot in school because I couldjust read things and remember
them, but I wasn't reallyabsorbing a lot of the things
because I didn't care about it.
I'm a great test taker becauseI can just memorize everything.
I can just memorize it, but thethings that I really care about
(17:10):
, those are the things that I'mreally absorbing.
What's a family?
Dori Fern (17:15):
memory that you think about a lot that feels so
deeply, part of how you seeyourself, something that
happened in your childhood, anevent that you play back in your
mind.
You think this is so me, orthis formed me in such a way.
This is such a great question.
Khori Petinaud (17:33):
It's not necessarily one specific memory,
but I think a lot about myrelationship with my mom and how
it has evolved.
And what has made me the humanthat I am now is because I
watched my mother as a singlemom.
She was just such a badass.
(17:54):
She always had dreams ofworking in cosmetics.
That was her dream from thevery beginning.
My grandparents were against it.
They didn't want to necessarilypay for her to go to school to
do that.
She had a lot more resistancein her experience of wanting to
follow her dreams than I did,and yet she still did it, even
with a child and not beingmarried to my dad and achieving
(18:18):
all of this success.
She was like I'm going to haveit all and she managed to
navigate me and an extremelydemanding career and I never
wanted for anything.
I was able to go to all theprograms I wanted to go to.
I was afforded a lot ofopportunities that many young
kids are not able to havebecause their parents probably
(18:41):
can't afford it or they justdon't have access or whatever it
is.
Watching my mother navigatemotherhood and also being an
extremely successful woman,informed what I knew was
possible for myself.
I didn't necessarily know thatit was going to look like what
it looks like now in terms of mebeing a performer, but I think
(19:04):
it's the thing that hasconstantly been the lighthouse
in my spirit when I feeloverwhelmed by the idea of
family and work.
And she didn't even have ahusband who was supporting and
helping her with those things.
And I do have that, and I justfeel like I would not have had
(19:24):
the bravery that it takes to dothis thing had I not seen her do
it.
And that doesn't mean that ourrelationship was perfect at all.
There were some things thatsuffered in our relationship
because she was so career driven, and I think those are the
things that I'm trying to bereally cognizant of in my
raising of Carver, because I amextremely driven and I always
(19:47):
have been, and I know that'sbecause of her because I watched
her amass so much success byherself.
I want him to see that what I'mdoing is my ultimate dream and
goal, so that he can followwhatever that thing is for
himself as well, and that hewill be informed.
That thing is for himself aswell, and that he will be
informed with the same braverythat I felt like my mom
instilled me with to go afterthe dream, because it takes a
(20:11):
lot of bravery, no matter whatthe dream is.
Dori Fern (20:14):
Life in general.
Got news for you the more youtry, the more you leap, the more
bravery it takes to live life,and of course then the potential
expands exponentially with that.
And so might the failure, butthe more things you do and the
more times you are brave, themore opportunities you have to
win.
In that way, that winning ismore expansive than just a prize
(20:38):
.
In what way are you a differentmom than your mother to Carver?
And Carver is how old now?
Khori Petinaud (20:44):
He's three, three.
I'm trying to talk to him a lotabout feelings, which my mom
did not do when I was young.
Now that I'm an adult, we havea lot closer of a relationship
because I can express myfeelings to her.
But I do think that because shewas so driven and all of those
things, and because she was asingle mom and it was like man,
we got to her.
But I do think that because shewas so driven and all of those
things, and because she was asingle mom and it was like man,
(21:05):
we got to go.
There was no time for feelings.
There was no time for I'mfeeling sad today and can you
just sit with me and can we justbe sad?
It was just like why are yousad?
What's going on?
Let's move on.
And I'm trying really hard notto be that way with Carver
because I want him to have anemotional intelligence that I
(21:26):
think it took me a long time todiscover how did it affect you
not to have that emotionalpermission?
I think it's part of what causedme to be depressed a lot as a
teenager, but like a very highfunctioning depressive person,
because I do think it's in myDNA to be high functioning and
the way that I thought my outletwas.
(21:48):
I thought my outlet was dance.
I thought my outlet was gettinggood grades and I wanted my mom
to just tell me that I wasdoing a good job all the time,
and she also didn't necessarilyhave the space to do that either
, and so it was just thisconstant self-loathing that I
started to feel around, and whenyou're a teenager and you can't
even cipher those things out,you just think that something's
(22:11):
wrong with you, when really itwas just.
I didn't have a means toexpress myself to the person
that I trusted the most with myemotions, because I felt like
she didn't necessarily have thepatience for pauses that
emotional responses call for, ifthat makes sense.
Dori Fern (22:29):
There's an open-endedness to emotional
responses, that if you're busyand trying to keep it all
together, you don't know what'sgoing to be required, and that
not knowing for someone who'sprobably very used to
controlling all of the elementscan be hard.
All that not knowing forsomeone who's probably very used
to controlling all of theelements can be hard.
Khori Petinaud (22:45):
All the things I ended up going through as a
teenager that sent me into aplace that I was not good.
Dori Fern (22:51):
What were the kind of manifestations of that, if
you're open to talk about?
Khori Petinaud (22:55):
that, yeah, I definitely was suicidal when I
was a teen and so my mom startedme in therapy at church and I
started with my pastor there andthat was actually really
helpful for me because it wasthe first time that I actually
had designated space for myselfto talk about how I was feeling.
Also, the school that I went toand the town that I lived in
(23:16):
was, like, majority white, sothat was also a huge transition
for me because I had been goingto all black schools between
Atlanta and Chicago and was likethe first time I was fully in
the minority.
That was a new experience.
And then, obviously, going tothe ballet school that I went to
, I was the only black girlthere.
I experienced a lot ofdifferent microaggressions that
(23:38):
we would call them now, but Ithought something was wrong with
me.
Dori Fern (23:42):
Do you remember how you, or if you contextualize
them with that 13-year-old whosaw Dance Theater of Harlem?
And then you're growing up andit's very much not that
experience in the reality you'reliving.
I'm wondering what you made ofthat.
Khori Petinaud (24:00):
Now I can think about it and say that seeing
Dance Theatre of Harlem, thatwas my savior in many ways
because it reflected back to methe possibilities within a world
that was not accepting ofpeople who looked like me.
Dori Fern (24:21):
I talked plenty last season about my history of
disordered eating as a child.
Going to a performing arts highschool only exacerbated my
lousy body image.
It was there I learned new waysto restrict my food intake,
like subsisting on an apple anddiet coke until the school day
ended, when I would binge onchocolate chip cookies I bought
(24:41):
at Le Cafe on the corner of 46thStreet and 6th Avenue.
It's no longer there, With themoney that I saved from secretly
taking the subway instead ofthe express bus, as my mother
wanted.
Part of why I ultimatelyrejected the idea of being a
(25:01):
professional performer wasbecause I couldn't stand the
idea of being evaluated andjudged based on my weight and
how I looked.
So I was curious how Coreymanaged this inevitable pitfall
of the business.
Dancers and their bodies, girlsand their bodies doing just
about anything but especiallyathletes and dancers.
What was your relationship toyour body?
Khori Petinaud (25:25):
Oh, I hated my body for so long and I think it
actually got worse when I gotinto ballet, obviously for
obvious reasons because I wasgoing away to summer programs.
I think Dance Theater of Harlemwas probably my healthiest
experience.
Number one because it was myfirst and so I was just so
overwhelmed with joy about likeactually having manifested that
(25:47):
goal.
But number two, because theschool is a predominantly Black
school.
They made it a priority for allof our tights to like.
We were dying our tights andtea me and the girls that I was
living with.
We would like pancake ourballet shoes, because at the
time they weren't makinganything with the multiple
ranges of skin tones that theyhave now for tights and shoes
and ballet, and so we would dothat.
(26:08):
But that was the norm at thatschool because everyone was
black and brown and also bodytypes were very similar in terms
of women, who were just builtdifferently, like some women had
butts and bigger thighs and allof that.
But then when I went to NorthCarolina School of the Arts,
where I was the only black girland I'm now being matched and
(26:31):
next up to these young whitegirls who've been training in
ballet since they were three.
They're like this big flat as apancake Possibly anorexic,
possibly and I went through aphase during my time at North
Carolina School of the Artswhere I was eating lettuce every
day and that's all I was eating, because I was just so
desperate to look like that.
I wanted to be rail thinbecause that's what I thought it
(26:54):
took to be a ballet dancer.
Wanted to be rail thin becausethat's what I thought it took to
be a ballet dancer.
I felt like Dance League ofHarlem was this wonderland of
blackness that was not actuallythe real world, and so I spent a
lot of years in loathing aroundthat of like my natural
physique and feeling like mynatural physique was working
against everything that I wantedas a dancer.
Dori Fern (27:15):
What's your relationship with food now?
Khori Petinaud (27:17):
Oh, it's amazing now, I would say probably since
two summers ago, when we wentout of town for dancing.
I came back from that and Ifelt horrible.
Carver was probably one and ahalf at that time and I felt
horrible.
I just felt like my body wasnot at all in a place.
(27:38):
That made me feel good and Istarted working with a
nutritional coach.
Her name's Michelle West andher company is called Bia
Nutrition, and she changed mylife, honestly, because it was
the first time in my entire lifeand I'm 36, that I felt like I
actually had control over what Iwas putting in my body and
having a full understanding ofhow it was going to affect me
(28:01):
energetically, physically, allof those things.
And I have not strayed from herprogram since then and it's
really informed everything abouthow I approach my holistic
health.
Do you cook?
I do, I pretty much solely cooknow.
Dori Fern (28:17):
How has cooking changed your relationship with
food?
Khori Petinaud (28:22):
I don't know that it's necessarily changed it
so much.
I think the main thing is thatit just has empowered me because
I know exactly what's goinginto my body.
I was eating out of desperation, really.
I was just like I haven't eatenall day.
So now I'm going to eat BurgerKing because I haven't eaten all
day and so I can just have this.
It was like a reward systemthat I was under, which I think
(28:43):
a lot of women do, where it's ifI work hard, then I can eat
this and this.
Dori Fern (28:47):
But it was just marketing too, because we're
marketed to believe that certainfoods are prizes.
My mantra about food is theminute you start getting
restrictive in your thinkingabout food, it will then trickle
down into all aspects of yourlife.
So true, obviously, diets are aprime example of that, but for
(29:13):
me, learning to have an abundantidea about the possibilities of
what I can put in my body meansthat I can choose from many
things Totally.
What do you want to change orimprove about your life?
(29:35):
Oh, what do you want to change?
Khori Petinaud (29:40):
or improve about your life?
Oh, that's a great question.
I think the main thing that Iam experiencing right now the
great pruning of my life interms of filtering out energies,
relationships, situations thatare no longer serving me because
I am notoriously a peoplepleaser and someone who
(30:06):
generally feels a lot of comfortaround being liked Part of the
pruning process is that youcan't continue to grow if you
have this dead weight on you.
Dori Fern (30:16):
What types of people do you feel like you need to
prune?
Khori Petinaud (30:27):
I think it's people who are energy suckers,
like what we started talkingabout in terms of how much I
share on social media, how muchI make myself available to
people that I don't even know.
But I'm realizing there arecertain people that really just
thrive off of taking and theydon't pour into people.
At this point in my life,especially as a parent and as a
wife and as a workingprofessional, I don't have the
(30:50):
energy or the time for thatanymore.
So I'm currently in the processof that.
Dori Fern (30:56):
Yeah, what are your goals?
What do you want to be doing?
Khori Petinaud (31:01):
What do you want to be?
Dori Fern (31:01):
doing more of?
What do you want to be doingless of?
Who do you want to be in 10years from now, or even I don't
know, like you're a dancer?
Khori Petinaud (31:19):
so maybe it's better to go in three-year
increments.
You know, it's wild to hearthat question right now at this
point in my life, because it'sbeen very first time in my adult
life that I can remember nothaving my finger specifically
pointed at one thing to be like,and that's what I'm doing next.
(31:42):
So there's a littledisillusionment there that I
think is clouding my vision, butit's also this feeling of
trying to just nail down what Iwant to be feeling and less
about the actual thing.
So that's what I'm working onright now and I know that, much
like my social media, my intenthas always been impact.
(32:04):
I want to be a part of impactfulart.
I want to be making an impactin people's lives with the words
I say and the actions that Itake.
I want to be making an impactin every way that I can.
That is the one word that hasbeen a constant in my space, and
(32:25):
so, while I don't know exactlylike I want to be in this show
or I want to, I've never hadgoals to like be a lead or be
famous or anything like that.
I just want to be able to makean impact and obviously I want
to be able to make an impactwhile paying my bills and not
having any struggles on thatfront.
Dori Fern (32:39):
Yeah, I talked in the trailer for this new season of
the show about this image I'vehad in my mind of the Russian
Matryoshka dolls, how I see themrepresenting our unique,
individual selves, nested insidelayers of influence of the
communities that shape us, andhow this is what I wanted to
(33:01):
explore here, and also how thegreat diversity of people who
form my own layers of influencewould not be likely to exist
outside of New York is a placewhere a 36, now 37, year old
black Broadway dancer andperformer, a wife and mother of
(33:22):
a toddler, like Corey, wouldbefriend me, a 58 year old white
divorcee and empty nester wholives across the hall and who
once dreamed of a career on thestage, and who once dreamed of a
career on the stage, but whonow uses my voice podcasting and
who dances freestyle in smallclubs to old school house music.
(33:43):
It's the place where we can findconnection points and be
enriched by our differences.
So, yeah, that's the story.
My last question for you isthis, corey.
So it's been said and I'masking everybody this question
it's been said that the onlything that remains of us when
(34:04):
we're gone are stories.
What do you hope your story orthe legacy you leave will be?
Khori Petinaud (34:12):
I think the biggest dream that I could ever
dream that I would leave behindwould be for people to say that
I was kind, that I was able tocreate and uphold and maintain
spaces where people weren'tafraid to fail, that I made
(34:33):
people feel loved and cared forand heard that I wasn't afraid
to speak the truth, that my artand that the way that I pursued
my art and was dedicated to mycraft and art, that that was
something that inspired peopleto continue to go after the
things that they wanted.
And I think, obviously, thebiggest legacy that I can leave
(34:57):
behind is a son who alsomaintains those values and that
carries that into his life as anadult.
I think that would be mybiggest dream.
Dori Fern (35:08):
That is a beautiful dream and I absolutely see it in
everything you do.
Thank you, dori, thank you forsharing that I am so grateful to
have you here.
I only wish you the best, thankyou.
Khori Petinaud (35:24):
I'll see you in the hallway.
I'll see you across the hall.
Dori Fern (35:33):
I have a favor to ask If you like this episode.
I would so appreciate if youwould share it with at least one
friend who might also enjoylistening.
And how about taking anotherquick moment to rate it?
Or maybe write a short reviewon Apple, Spotify or YouTube?
Life Teaching with Dori Fern isproduced and edited by Anne
(35:58):
Pope.
Music is Cool Jazzy, bass andVibraphone and Orange Blues by
M33 Project.
Thank you for listening.
I'll be back in a couple ofweeks with another life-changing
conversation.
I've been trying to put my finger on the central
through line of thisconversation with Kh performer
, who is also my next doorneighbor.
It was a Facebook post shewrote, which I read back to her
at the start of our talk.
You'll hear that in a moment.
That initially sparked myinterest to have her on the
podcast podcast.
(00:20):
I was struck by the insight sheshared about negative thinking.
As the show she was in was aboutto close, my own job was ending
at the same time, leaving meagain, like during my sabbatical
, filled with plans, some decentsavings, but no clear source of
(00:41):
new income.
No clear source of new income,and at 36, Corey articulated
this idea that took me over 50years and a coaching
certification to understand andput into practice that we are
not our thoughts and that we canchoose not to move from a place
of fear and lacking.
There's something else, though,but let's start there.
(01:06):
Welcome to Life Changing withDori Fern a podcast about who we
are, where we're going and whatconnects us.
It's a show for people inprogress at any stage.
Khori Petinaud (01:29):
Watching my mother navigate motherhood and
also being an extremelysuccessful woman, informed what
I knew was possible for myselfhello everyone.
Dori Fern (01:54):
Today I have cory petno on the podcast.
Welcome, cory, thank you.
Cory is a new york city-basedperformer, educator, wife and
mom.
She has been in many shows onBroadway Lempicka, aladdin, the
musical Moulin Rouge, themusical Chicago, the musical and
her Broadway principal debut inthe company of Bob Fosse's
(02:14):
Danson was where she landed aChita Rivera award nomination
for Outstanding Dancer in aBroadway Show, as well as a win
Outstanding Ensemble in aBroadway Show.
She has TV credits that includeUp here, rent, live, the
Marvelous Mrs Maisel, vinyl, theNick, and I just have to say
(02:38):
she's also the best neighborwith the absolutely cutest son,
and her husband's cute too, buther son Carver, is pretty
incredible.
Khori Petinaud (02:47):
So welcome to the show, Corey.
Thank you for having me.
Dori Fern (02:51):
Okay.
So before we get started, youand your illustrious self, I'm
going to read you something, andthis is the Facebook post from
April 12th.
You ever notice how it's somuch easier to worry than it is
to trust?
I was thinking about thisyesterday because I've been
navigating life and all itsdualities and complexities.
My life is a lifing in thewildest of ways and I've been
(03:16):
meeting some unexpectedchallenges.
Recently.
I had a bit of time to reflectand take stock of what emotions
were coming up for me, and itwas so interesting to be an
observer of my thoughts.
I rarely take the time to dothat, but as I observed, I
noticed how badly I wanted tocling to negativity and worry.
(03:37):
When a negative thought came up, I had to actively resist the
urge to let my mind wander downthe what-if path of cynicism.
I found it fascinating how muchI had to muscle my way to faith
, but in the same breath, Ididn't have to fight too long
before I was reminded that I'vebeen in this place before and
I've made it out even betterthan I could have imagined.
(04:00):
There's nothing new under thesun.
Any challenge we face, we'velikely faced it before.
We just have to be willing totussle with our fear-driven
thoughts rather than justaccepting them as truth.
We have to silence the noiseenough to see clearly that
everything is in divine order.
This is way easier said thandone, but just sharing for
(04:24):
anyone who may need a reminder.
Love y'all.
So what was going on for youwhen you wrote this and how does
it?
What does it bring up for youhearing it again?
Khori Petinaud (04:35):
Oh it's wild to hear it again.
I'm still very much in thatplace my show I was in Lempicka
at the time, which is now closed, but it was feeling like things
were winding in a way thatwasn't necessarily the most
positive in terms of thelongevity of the show.
And you know, that was a reallychallenging time and still is a
(04:55):
challenging time because Ithink for artists, our life is
constantly in flux.
We don't really necessarilyhave that consistency
financially, and even justknowing where we're going every
day can change, and so I wasreally looking forward to just a
little bit of stationary lifeand I just found myself really
(05:17):
contemplating about all thesewhat-ifs in the future and what
if this happens, and what ifthis happens?
What if this happens, and whatif this happens?
What if this happens?
And it was fascinating to beable to see myself really
desiring comfort in thenegativity.
Like it was something that Iwas paused long enough to really
feel myself really wanting tolatch on to the show's going to
(05:39):
close and then I'm not going toget another job, and then and
then and then and then and thenTypically when I'm going through
moments that I feel are youknow, something that could be
relatable.
I usually post something onsocial media because I feel like
oftentimes it resonates with alot of people.
Dori Fern (05:55):
When the whole Broadway performer thing ends,
you have a career as a coach,because, honestly, quite a bit
older than you and it's taken mea lot longer to figure all of
this out, but it is the veryfoundation of the work that I do
.
So thank you for summarizingthat so nicely.
My most obvious connection withCorey is that she is living out
(06:17):
my childhood dream of being amusical theater performer.
I started dancing when I wasthree tap, ballet and jazz and
spent most Saturdays in myadolescence until I was about 16
at Miss Dorothy School of Danceon 233rd Street and White
Plains Road in the Bronx.
(06:38):
I sang too, mostly in the backof my parents' banana-colored
Plymouth station wagon in summercamp shows or alone in my
bedroom 70s singer-songwriterpop mostly.
It was my greatest escape anddeepest joy and performing well.
(07:01):
That started when I was pickedto represent my 7th grade middle
school in the New York CityStorytelling Contest, one of
many great arts programs forpublic school kids that once
existed here.
I was the Bronx winner andrunner-up in the city, coming in
second to the only boy in myage group who competed.
(07:22):
Boy in my age group whocompeted.
This win put me on the path toaudition for, and get accepted
to, the drama program at theHigh School of Performing Arts,
where I started about a monthafter the movie Fame was
released, but that's a wholenother story.
I know this is true of Broadwayshows in general, but you're
signing autographs for peopleand you have people who are
(07:43):
there and it's just like thereis a degree of fame in a way.
And then, of course, we wenthome on the two train, and
that's the reality too.
How does all of that feel?
What is it like?
Khori Petinaud (07:56):
I'm a Leo, so I like being the center of
attention.
Oh, I guess so many, leo.
Dori Fern (08:02):
That's so tracks.
When's your birthday, august7th?
Okay, what do you hear fromother people that you have given
them?
Khori Petinaud (08:11):
I'm not necessarily putting every single
thing that I'm experiencing onsocial media, but I found it to
be really therapeutic andhelpful for me to put my
feelings into words and try tosummarize what I was
experiencing.
It's been really beautiful tofeel that so many people are
grateful that I have normalizedexperiences that they may be
(08:33):
going through in their own lives.
Personally, I want to go back abit.
Dori Fern (08:37):
Tell me a bit about where you grew up, how you made
your way into this world.
Khori Petinaud (08:43):
I grew up all over the place.
I was born in Atlanta, georgia,and then throughout my
adolescence my mother wasgetting a series of promotions
and she was, like in her bossera, getting very successful in
her career, and so it was askingher to move quite frequently.
My mom works in sales andmarketing for a company called
(09:05):
Color Me Beautiful, a cosmeticscompany.
We moved from Atlanta toChicago and then I lived in
Chicago for about four years andthat was from like around the
time when I turned like eight orsomething.
Those were pivotal years, verypivotal, so I was not very
rooted as a child and might notbe a terrible thing going into
the field that you're in?
(09:25):
Definitely it definitely makesit easier for me to live that
nomad life.
I didn't really have to becauseWayne and I got married when I
was so young, but I am notuncomfortable with that of
having to move and do that thing.
But yes, we lived in Chicagofor a while and then when my mom
got another job opportunitythat was going to cause her to
(09:46):
have to travel like every week,she thought it was going to be
best if I go back to Atlanta andstay with my dad for the year
while she was figuring that out.
So I went back to Atlanta for Ibelieve it was sixth grade
while she was doing that andthen, once she was settled in
Virginia, then I moved with herto Virginia and Virginia is
where I went to middle schooland high school.
(10:07):
So that's kind of where I say Igrew up, Because that's where I
was like expanding into mywomanhood and being a grumpy
teenager and all the things inVirginia.
So you were about 13, 12?
Yeah, 12 or 13.
Right around puberty, yeah,which is fun, fun time, and yeah
.
So that's where I graduatedfrom high school.
(10:28):
And when I was there is when Iactually got very serious about
my dance training, because Ididn't start dancing very
seriously, like taking classregularly until I was 13.
Oh, okay, so my mom put me inballet and I started going to
summer programs and all of thatand then only wanted to be a
ballet dancer.
That was like what my focus was.
I wanted to be a dance leaderof Harlem.
After she took me to see themat the Kennedy Center, it
(10:50):
changed my life.
Take me back to that time beingthat person.
Yes, they did Firebird at theKennedy Center and I was like
this is the most incrediblething I've ever seen.
They were all black and brownballet dancers.
I don't even know if beforethat I'd ever even seen ballet,
but there are pictures of mewhen I was like three or four
(11:11):
years old in like tutus jumpingaround.
I just felt like it was verymuch divine, Like the dancing
for me was divine.
But the training came so muchlater because my dad wanted me
to be Serena Williams, so I wasplaying tennis and I was doing
all those things.
Dori Fern (11:27):
And by the way, everyone, this is not a video
podcast, but the guns on thislady are unbelievable.
I mean her arms.
Khori Petinaud (11:35):
No, she's not carrying guns.
Dori Fern (11:37):
Not that I'm aware of , no.
And also the other littletidbit.
Being her neighbor, I can tellyou if you're working out next
to her in the gym, do not talkto her.
She does not want to.
I'm in the zone.
She is in the zone.
Not interested in that.
Khori Petinaud (11:54):
I'm fully in the zone.
Dori Fern (11:56):
So we're in the.
It was in the Kennedy Center.
Khori Petinaud (11:58):
Yes, we are in the Kennedy Center and I'm
watching.
Dori Fern (12:01):
Firebird you have performed, by the way.
Khori Petinaud (12:03):
I have performed there.
Yes, I've performed theremultiple times as a teenager
also.
Dori Fern (12:08):
To see this.
You're there.
Khori Petinaud (12:09):
Yes, I'm there and I'm like watching it and I'm
seeing all of these blackballerinas, like women who look
like me and have body shapeslike me, because that was a big
thing too is like the way I'mbuilt and because I played
sports, like I am built, verylike I'm muscular.
I've always been muscular.
I haven't always been as cut asI am now, but I've always just
(12:31):
had like thicker thighs and allof that.
And I never saw anyone wholooked like me or had a body
shape like mine, on point anddoing ballet.
And when my mom took me to seeit, I just sat there and I was
like dumbfounded the whole time,like this is amazing.
And we walked out and I told mymommy I want to do ballet, I
(12:51):
want to go to Dance Theatre ofHarlem.
And that summer I did.
And the rest was history.
My mom let me come to New YorkCity by myself.
I stayed with a host family.
She hosted six of us like youngballet dancers whose parents
financially couldn't get ustheir own place but wanted us to
(13:12):
have the experience.
And I fell in love with NewYork that summer.
So from there I honed my ballettraining super strong and then
by the time I got to my junioryear where you're like trying to
figure out colleges and stuff Iknew that the ballet dream that
I had was probably no longergoing to be realistic for me,
(13:33):
because 16 and 17 is like yourprime as a ballet dancer, and I
knew that education was reallyimportant to me.
I wanted to go to college.
I wasn't necessarily interestedin just moving to New York and
auditioning for ballet companies.
I wanted to go to school.
And so I was like all right, Ilove ballet, but I have to just
(13:53):
trust that I'm not going to bedoing it in the way that
everybody else does it and I'mjust going to audition for these
college programs for dance andsee where I land.
And I ended up getting acceptedinto NYU.
And so then I moved to New Yorkand I started college and was a
dance major and a double minorin law and society and religious
(14:14):
studies.
Dori Fern (14:15):
I was a religious studies major Were you, yeah,
yeah.
Khori Petinaud (14:18):
I was originally a psych major.
Dori Fern (14:20):
But then I was like I don't care what Freud and Jung
had to say but I really wantedto understand human behavior and
psychology.
And I thought I would learnthat more from comparative
religion.
Khori Petinaud (14:31):
Yes, okay, yeah, that's very cool.
Yeah, I felt similarly.
I just was interested in.
You know, I grew up in thechurch too, so I had a
fascination about combining thereligions of multiple cultures
and understanding how thatinforms their experience in the
world, how they view the world,how they see other people.
(14:54):
So, yeah, I mean, nyu reallyallowed me the opportunity to
expand my mind as an academic,but then also I was in a
conservatory program for dance,so I was able to get like really
insanely amazing training.
But my training was flipped onits head at NYU because it was
very downtown.
Here in New York City it's likethe downtown dancers like
(15:17):
they're the dancers that do theweird stuff.
They're like crawling on thefloor.
Yeah, the modern dancersthey're like not wearing any
clothes and they're standing onthe stage with like pig blood
and screaming.
And the uptown dancers are likeNew York City Ballet and the
Broadway dancers, and thosepeople are like a different type
of person.
And so it's interesting becauseI felt like a fish out of water
for a good portion of mycollege experience.
(15:38):
I was like wearing my hair in abun to hip hop class.
You know, I didn't know aboutall these other forms of dance
in terms of studying them,really studying them, because I
was so focused on ballet, and soit really changed my outlook on
dance during my time in collegeand it expanded my vocabulary.
Obviously, and really, I thinkat the time I didn't fully
(15:59):
appreciate how expansive it mademe, but now, as 36 year old, I
can look back and be like I'm sothankful that I did have that
diversity of training, becauseBroadway is just asking dancers
to be able to do so many thingsnow, and I felt like I had a lot
of tools in my toolbox fromthat experience.
Dori Fern (16:18):
Have you always been a super disciplined and focused
person.
Khori Petinaud (16:23):
Have you always been a super disciplined and
focused person?
Yeah, I feel like I have verydisciplined sides, but I also
have sides of myself that arenot.
I think I struggled a lot withanything that I don't feel a
fire or a passion around.
I always did well in school,but I did well in school because
I knew I had to do well.
It wasn't necessarily a drivenlike I'm going to be the best in
(16:46):
the class.
Dori Fern (16:46):
So, in other words, you didn't care about being an,
a student.
Khori Petinaud (16:49):
No, I didn't care about that, but I do think
I have perfectionist tendenciesand so it worked to my advantage
a lot in school because I couldjust read things and remember
them, but I wasn't reallyabsorbing a lot of the things
because I didn't care about it.
I'm a great test taker becauseI can just memorize everything.
I can just memorize it, but thethings that I really care about
(17:10):
, those are the things that I'mreally absorbing.
What's a family?
Dori Fern (17:15):
memory that you think about a lot that feels so
deeply, part of how you seeyourself, something that
happened in your childhood, anevent that you play back in your
mind.
You think this is so me, orthis formed me in such a way.
This is such a great question.
Khori Petinaud (17:33):
It's not necessarily one specific memory,
but I think a lot about myrelationship with my mom and how
it has evolved.
And what has made me the humanthat I am now is because I
watched my mother as a singlemom.
She was just such a badass.
(17:54):
She always had dreams ofworking in cosmetics.
That was her dream from thevery beginning.
My grandparents were against it.
They didn't want to necessarilypay for her to go to school to
do that.
She had a lot more resistancein her experience of wanting to
follow her dreams than I did,and yet she still did it, even
with a child and not beingmarried to my dad and achieving
(18:18):
all of this success.
She was like I'm going to haveit all and she managed to
navigate me and an extremelydemanding career and I never
wanted for anything.
I was able to go to all theprograms I wanted to go to.
I was afforded a lot ofopportunities that many young
kids are not able to havebecause their parents probably
(18:41):
can't afford it or they justdon't have access or whatever it
is.
Watching my mother navigatemotherhood and also being an
extremely successful woman,informed what I knew was
possible for myself.
I didn't necessarily know thatit was going to look like what
it looks like now in terms of mebeing a performer, but I think
(19:04):
it's the thing that hasconstantly been the lighthouse
in my spirit when I feeloverwhelmed by the idea of
family and work.
And she didn't even have ahusband who was supporting and
helping her with those things.
And I do have that, and I justfeel like I would not have had
(19:24):
the bravery that it takes to dothis thing had I not seen her do
it.
And that doesn't mean that ourrelationship was perfect at all.
There were some things thatsuffered in our relationship
because she was so career driven, and I think those are the
things that I'm trying to bereally cognizant of in my
raising of Carver, because I amextremely driven and I always
(19:47):
have been, and I know that'sbecause of her because I watched
her amass so much success byherself.
I want him to see that what I'mdoing is my ultimate dream and
goal, so that he can followwhatever that thing is for
himself as well, and that hewill be informed.
That thing is for himself aswell, and that he will be
informed with the same braverythat I felt like my mom
instilled me with to go afterthe dream, because it takes a
(20:11):
lot of bravery, no matter whatthe dream is.
Dori Fern (20:14):
Life in general.
Got news for you the more youtry, the more you leap, the more
bravery it takes to live life,and of course then the potential
expands exponentially with that.
And so might the failure, butthe more things you do and the
more times you are brave, themore opportunities you have to
win.
In that way, that winning ismore expansive than just a prize
(20:38):
.
In what way are you a differentmom than your mother to Carver?
And Carver is how old now?
Khori Petinaud (20:44):
He's three, three.
I'm trying to talk to him a lotabout feelings, which my mom
did not do when I was young.
Now that I'm an adult, we havea lot closer of a relationship
because I can express myfeelings to her.
But I do think that because shewas so driven and all of those
things, and because she was asingle mom and it was like man,
we got to her.
But I do think that because shewas so driven and all of those
things, and because she was asingle mom and it was like man,
(21:05):
we got to go.
There was no time for feelings.
There was no time for I'mfeeling sad today and can you
just sit with me and can we justbe sad?
It was just like why are yousad?
What's going on?
Let's move on.
And I'm trying really hard notto be that way with Carver
because I want him to have anemotional intelligence that I
(21:26):
think it took me a long time todiscover how did it affect you
not to have that emotionalpermission?
I think it's part of what causedme to be depressed a lot as a
teenager, but like a very highfunctioning depressive person,
because I do think it's in myDNA to be high functioning and
the way that I thought my outletwas.
(21:48):
I thought my outlet was dance.
I thought my outlet was gettinggood grades and I wanted my mom
to just tell me that I wasdoing a good job all the time,
and she also didn't necessarilyhave the space to do that either
, and so it was just thisconstant self-loathing that I
started to feel around, and whenyou're a teenager and you can't
even cipher those things out,you just think that something's
(22:11):
wrong with you, when really itwas just.
I didn't have a means toexpress myself to the person
that I trusted the most with myemotions, because I felt like
she didn't necessarily have thepatience for pauses that
emotional responses call for, ifthat makes sense.
Dori Fern (22:29):
There's an open-endedness to emotional
responses, that if you're busyand trying to keep it all
together, you don't know what'sgoing to be required, and that
not knowing for someone who'sprobably very used to
controlling all of the elementscan be hard.
All that not knowing forsomeone who's probably very used
to controlling all of theelements can be hard.
Khori Petinaud (22:45):
All the things I ended up going through as a
teenager that sent me into aplace that I was not good.
Dori Fern (22:51):
What were the kind of manifestations of that, if
you're open to talk about?
Khori Petinaud (22:55):
that, yeah, I definitely was suicidal when I
was a teen and so my mom startedme in therapy at church and I
started with my pastor there andthat was actually really
helpful for me because it wasthe first time that I actually
had designated space for myselfto talk about how I was feeling.
Also, the school that I went toand the town that I lived in
(23:16):
was, like, majority white, sothat was also a huge transition
for me because I had been goingto all black schools between
Atlanta and Chicago and was likethe first time I was fully in
the minority.
That was a new experience.
And then, obviously, going tothe ballet school that I went to
, I was the only black girlthere.
I experienced a lot ofdifferent microaggressions that
(23:38):
we would call them now, but Ithought something was wrong with
me.
Dori Fern (23:42):
Do you remember how you, or if you contextualize
them with that 13-year-old whosaw Dance Theater of Harlem?
And then you're growing up andit's very much not that
experience in the reality you'reliving.
I'm wondering what you made ofthat.
Khori Petinaud (24:00):
Now I can think about it and say that seeing
Dance Theatre of Harlem, thatwas my savior in many ways
because it reflected back to methe possibilities within a world
that was not accepting ofpeople who looked like me.
Dori Fern (24:21):
I talked plenty last season about my history of
disordered eating as a child.
Going to a performing arts highschool only exacerbated my
lousy body image.
It was there I learned new waysto restrict my food intake,
like subsisting on an apple anddiet coke until the school day
ended, when I would binge onchocolate chip cookies I bought
(24:41):
at Le Cafe on the corner of 46thStreet and 6th Avenue.
It's no longer there, With themoney that I saved from secretly
taking the subway instead ofthe express bus, as my mother
wanted.
Part of why I ultimatelyrejected the idea of being a
(25:01):
professional performer wasbecause I couldn't stand the
idea of being evaluated andjudged based on my weight and
how I looked.
So I was curious how Coreymanaged this inevitable pitfall
of the business.
Dancers and their bodies, girlsand their bodies doing just
about anything but especiallyathletes and dancers.
What was your relationship toyour body?
Khori Petinaud (25:25):
Oh, I hated my body for so long and I think it
actually got worse when I gotinto ballet, obviously for
obvious reasons because I wasgoing away to summer programs.
I think Dance Theater of Harlemwas probably my healthiest
experience.
Number one because it was myfirst and so I was just so
overwhelmed with joy about likeactually having manifested that
(25:47):
goal.
But number two, because theschool is a predominantly Black
school.
They made it a priority for allof our tights to like.
We were dying our tights andtea me and the girls that I was
living with.
We would like pancake ourballet shoes, because at the
time they weren't makinganything with the multiple
ranges of skin tones that theyhave now for tights and shoes
and ballet, and so we would dothat.
(26:08):
But that was the norm at thatschool because everyone was
black and brown and also bodytypes were very similar in terms
of women, who were just builtdifferently, like some women had
butts and bigger thighs and allof that.
But then when I went to NorthCarolina School of the Arts,
where I was the only black girland I'm now being matched and
(26:31):
next up to these young whitegirls who've been training in
ballet since they were three.
They're like this big flat as apancake Possibly anorexic,
possibly and I went through aphase during my time at North
Carolina School of the Artswhere I was eating lettuce every
day and that's all I was eating, because I was just so
desperate to look like that.
I wanted to be rail thinbecause that's what I thought it
(26:54):
took to be a ballet dancer.
Wanted to be rail thin becausethat's what I thought it took to
be a ballet dancer.
I felt like Dance League ofHarlem was this wonderland of
blackness that was not actuallythe real world, and so I spent a
lot of years in loathing aroundthat of like my natural
physique and feeling like mynatural physique was working
against everything that I wantedas a dancer.
Dori Fern (27:15):
What's your relationship with food now?
Khori Petinaud (27:17):
Oh, it's amazing now, I would say probably since
two summers ago, when we wentout of town for dancing.
I came back from that and Ifelt horrible.
Carver was probably one and ahalf at that time and I felt
horrible.
I just felt like my body wasnot at all in a place.
(27:38):
That made me feel good and Istarted working with a
nutritional coach.
Her name's Michelle West andher company is called Bia
Nutrition, and she changed mylife, honestly, because it was
the first time in my entire lifeand I'm 36, that I felt like I
actually had control over what Iwas putting in my body and
having a full understanding ofhow it was going to affect me
(28:01):
energetically, physically, allof those things.
And I have not strayed from herprogram since then and it's
really informed everything abouthow I approach my holistic
health.
Do you cook?
I do, I pretty much solely cooknow.
Dori Fern (28:17):
How has cooking changed your relationship with
food?
Khori Petinaud (28:22):
I don't know that it's necessarily changed it
so much.
I think the main thing is thatit just has empowered me because
I know exactly what's goinginto my body.
I was eating out of desperation, really.
I was just like I haven't eatenall day.
So now I'm going to eat BurgerKing because I haven't eaten all
day and so I can just have this.
It was like a reward systemthat I was under, which I think
(28:43):
a lot of women do, where it's ifI work hard, then I can eat
this and this.
Dori Fern (28:47):
But it was just marketing too, because we're
marketed to believe that certainfoods are prizes.
My mantra about food is theminute you start getting
restrictive in your thinkingabout food, it will then trickle
down into all aspects of yourlife.
So true, obviously, diets are aprime example of that, but for
(29:13):
me, learning to have an abundantidea about the possibilities of
what I can put in my body meansthat I can choose from many
things Totally.
What do you want to change orimprove about your life?
(29:35):
Oh, what do you want to change?
Khori Petinaud (29:40):
or improve about your life?
Oh, that's a great question.
I think the main thing that Iam experiencing right now the
great pruning of my life interms of filtering out energies,
relationships, situations thatare no longer serving me because
I am notoriously a peoplepleaser and someone who
(30:06):
generally feels a lot of comfortaround being liked Part of the
pruning process is that youcan't continue to grow if you
have this dead weight on you.
Dori Fern (30:16):
What types of people do you feel like you need to
prune?
Khori Petinaud (30:27):
I think it's people who are energy suckers,
like what we started talkingabout in terms of how much I
share on social media, how muchI make myself available to
people that I don't even know.
But I'm realizing there arecertain people that really just
thrive off of taking and theydon't pour into people.
At this point in my life,especially as a parent and as a
wife and as a workingprofessional, I don't have the
(30:50):
energy or the time for thatanymore.
So I'm currently in the processof that.
Dori Fern (30:56):
Yeah, what are your goals?
What do you want to be doing?
Khori Petinaud (31:01):
What do you want to be?
Dori Fern (31:01):
doing more of?
What do you want to be doingless of?
Who do you want to be in 10years from now, or even I don't
know, like you're a dancer?
Khori Petinaud (31:19):
so maybe it's better to go in three-year
increments.
You know, it's wild to hearthat question right now at this
point in my life, because it'sbeen very first time in my adult
life that I can remember nothaving my finger specifically
pointed at one thing to be like,and that's what I'm doing next.
(31:42):
So there's a littledisillusionment there that I
think is clouding my vision, butit's also this feeling of
trying to just nail down what Iwant to be feeling and less
about the actual thing.
So that's what I'm working onright now and I know that, much
like my social media, my intenthas always been impact.
(32:04):
I want to be a part of impactfulart.
I want to be making an impactin people's lives with the words
I say and the actions that Itake.
I want to be making an impactin every way that I can.
That is the one word that hasbeen a constant in my space, and
(32:25):
so, while I don't know exactlylike I want to be in this show
or I want to, I've never hadgoals to like be a lead or be
famous or anything like that.
I just want to be able to makean impact and obviously I want
to be able to make an impactwhile paying my bills and not
having any struggles on thatfront.
Dori Fern (32:39):
Yeah, I talked in the trailer for this new season of
the show about this image I'vehad in my mind of the Russian
Matryoshka dolls, how I see themrepresenting our unique,
individual selves, nested insidelayers of influence of the
communities that shape us, andhow this is what I wanted to
(33:01):
explore here, and also how thegreat diversity of people who
form my own layers of influencewould not be likely to exist
outside of New York is a placewhere a 36, now 37, year old
black Broadway dancer andperformer, a wife and mother of
(33:22):
a toddler, like Corey, wouldbefriend me, a 58 year old white
divorcee and empty nester wholives across the hall and who
once dreamed of a career on thestage, and who once dreamed of a
career on the stage, but whonow uses my voice podcasting and
who dances freestyle in smallclubs to old school house music.
(33:43):
It's the place where we can findconnection points and be
enriched by our differences.
So, yeah, that's the story.
My last question for you isthis, corey.
So it's been said and I'masking everybody this question
it's been said that the onlything that remains of us when
(34:04):
we're gone are stories.
What do you hope your story orthe legacy you leave will be?
Khori Petinaud (34:12):
I think the biggest dream that I could ever
dream that I would leave behindwould be for people to say that
I was kind, that I was able tocreate and uphold and maintain
spaces where people weren'tafraid to fail, that I made
(34:33):
people feel loved and cared forand heard that I wasn't afraid
to speak the truth, that my artand that the way that I pursued
my art and was dedicated to mycraft and art, that that was
something that inspired peopleto continue to go after the
things that they wanted.
And I think, obviously, thebiggest legacy that I can leave
(34:57):
behind is a son who alsomaintains those values and that
carries that into his life as anadult.
I think that would be mybiggest dream.
Dori Fern (35:08):
That is a beautiful dream and I absolutely see it in
everything you do.
Thank you, dori, thank you forsharing that I am so grateful to
have you here.
I only wish you the best, thankyou.
Khori Petinaud (35:24):
I'll see you in the hallway.
I'll see you across the hall.
Dori Fern (35:33):
I have a favor to ask If you like this episode.
I would so appreciate if youwould share it with at least one
friend who might also enjoylistening.
And how about taking anotherquick moment to rate it?
Or maybe write a short reviewon Apple, Spotify or YouTube?
Life Teaching with Dori Fern isproduced and edited by Anne
(35:58):
Pope.
Music is Cool Jazzy, bass andVibraphone and Orange Blues by
M33 Project.
Thank you for listening.
I'll be back in a couple ofweeks with another life-changing
conversation.
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