November 14, 2024 • 27 mins
American cheese: love it or hate it, there's no denying its famous melting prowess. But what does cheese have to do with education? Join us as we navigate from the world of cheese to the complex challenges of academic inclusion. We'll tackle the demanding life of scholarly pursuits and the pressing need for genuine inclusion in education. Our conversation hinges on minimizing discrimination and ensuring equitable learning opportunities for every student, especially those in special education. Through this journey, we unveil the realities of inclusive education, spotlighting the integration of students with disabilities into mainstream classrooms.
While the special education population continues to grow, over 15% of public school students receive services under IDEA, yet educators often find themselves without the necessary support and training. We explore this critical issue, highlighting the importance of adapting teaching methods to meet diverse needs. This is a call to action for systemic support, as we address communication barriers, cultural differences, and the necessity for comprehensive teacher education. By advocating for better-prepared educators, we aim to balance the educational needs of all students, fostering an inclusive environment for various learning abilities.
Let's not forget the vital role of compassionate collaboration between educators and parents. Personal anecdotes bring to life the significance of open communication and mutual support, encouraging active parental involvement. We urge teachers to acknowledge their limitations and seek help when necessary, creating a supportive network for both educators and families. Together, we'll explore how strengthening the parent-teacher relationship is key to enhancing the student's educational journey. And before you go, find out how you can connect with us through social media, where your questions and insights are always welcome.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
so what was that cheese called again?
Yeah it's got this like weirdflavor in my mouth.
You know like not that I needto scratch my tongue off or
anything, but it's interesting.
So anyway, let's go ahead andstart another episode.
What do you think, laura?
Should we start another?
Ahead and start another episode?
(00:23):
What do you think, laura?
Should we start another episode?
Sure.
Let's start another episode Onthat note of cheese.
So yeah, well, cheese is good,like that's one of those things
that, across the board,everybody can agree with.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Most people.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Maybe not types of cheese Like those ridiculously
demented people that callAmerican cheese cheese.
That stuff's just disgustingLike.
Why would anybody want to eatthat on purpose?
With all the cheeses in theworld, they will eat those that,
that one, whatever.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I think some people like its melting capabilities.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Okay, yeah, people like its melting capabilities.
Okay, yeah, that, yeah, soanyway, um, we often have
conversations about this stuffbecause we're both still in
school and having to read allkinds of stuff all the time, and
it's not that I enjoy readingit, it's just that I have to.
But sometimes the content ofthe papers that we have to read
(01:28):
or the journal articles that wehave to read are pretty
interesting.
So what I would like to do, uh,for this particular episode is
I would like to discuss one ofthe journal let's try that again
Journal, the journal articleand the Hand sanitizer.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Right Hand sanitizer.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, so we just start making up words.
That's the way that realteachers do it.
It's like you just kind of wingit, put together some words
like some possible, and I don'thave any more.
Like.
That's all I have.
That's what happens when werecord after working all day.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I'm lucky.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I can still say cheese balls and Chromebooks.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Better than me.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, struggle with the words.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So I read this article, this journal article
that had to do with so.
One of the big topics and youand I talk about this all the
time and there's tons ofresearch on it is the whole idea
behind inclusion, right?
So the past couple episodeswe've talked about law, We've
talked about IDEA, We've talkedabout FAPE, we talked some about
(02:52):
LRE, and if you don't know whatany of those are, go check out
the other episodes but at thevery top of these conversations
(03:18):
is the conversation of inclusion.
But across the world there'sthis kind of consensus that we
need to minimize discriminationas much as possible and, when it
comes to the world of educationand special education, that we
need to give our students thebest opportunity we can to
(03:43):
receive an education that'sgoing to help them as they move
forward, and so a lot of thisfalls under inclusion.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, what are some of the issues with inclusion?
Some of the issues areproviding support in the
classroom.
You get outside of kindergartenand there are no Right.
And then the paras inkindergarten they have enough,
you know, trying to keep up withthe students that are typically
developing and doing the extrawork that they have to do.
(04:18):
So then you know, you add inexcuse me a student that may
need some more extra support andit makes extremely difficult
for them to focus on both and doit well.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, I mean, think about this is why I'll never be
like a superintendent.
But somebody thought it was agreat idea to put 20 something
kids in a classroom with twoadults and have them learn.
I mean, that's severelyoutnumbered.
Yes, very tiny humans.
(04:55):
Some of them never been in aschool setting before, right,
not all of them have gone topreschool and so that to me that
, yeah, that, and God blessthose people that do that.
I'm telling you.
I mean it was fun when I wassubbing, but I don't know that I
could handle.
I'd be afraid, I'd be veryafraid, because there's so many
of them and they can surroundyou, but anyway, let's move on.
(05:22):
So, talking about inclusion butanyway, let's move on.
So, talking about inclusion.
So there are yeah, there's alot of hurdles, but one of the
(05:43):
ones that you'll find when doingany kind of research on it is
that we have more and moreteachers put in positions to do
so.
Right, so?
So inclusion has been a bigdeal like.
So we can go all the way backto like 19, 1905, I think it was
.
I think that's what we weresaying yeah, over the weekend or
1910, that's what it was thewhite house conference of
children, right, and this wasall about education and
providing the best, again,education that we can.
(06:08):
And of course, as we progressas a society, more things become
evident to us and we adjust andaddress and so on and so forth.
But in this whole process, the,the special education
population has just exploded.
(06:29):
So looking at the 22, 23 schoolyear, according to the Center
for Educational Statistics Ithink I said that right 15, I
think like 15.2% of the publicschool population is being
(06:51):
served under IDEA.
That turns out to be somewherein the area of like seven, seven
, just over seven millionstudents that fall under under
IDEA but it's pretty expansivefall under IDEA but it's pretty
(07:14):
expansive.
So kids getting specialeducation services aren't just
kids that are in like classrooms, like we teach the
self-contained classrooms, butmost of them.
So of that 7 million I thinkit's somewhere like four and a
half, close to 5 million are inthe general education classroom.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
And so what are some of the supports?
Right?
So you talked about that.
One of the big issues is not abig issue, but a truth is that
there's not consistent support,constant support in the
classrooms all day, and so talka little bit about that, like
what happens in the inclusionclassroom.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
In the inclusion classroom we have typically
students of varying disabilitiesand they're doing their
academics and they also have thesocial aspect of it, and so the
teacher has to make sure thatthey are ensuring that their
materials are on the right levelfor their learners, whether
(08:21):
that be on target or if they'reabove average or if they're
struggling a little bit.
So the teachers try to makesure that they have something
for all of their students thatwill be beneficial.
And then there's oftentimes,when you have students that have
(08:42):
an IEP typically, that thereare also some undesired
behaviors that follow thosestudents for various reasons.
Some of them could be thatthey're immature, because
they're not developmentallyready to be where they are.
Some of it could be theirdiagnosis itself or their
(09:06):
disability itself.
Excuse me, communicationbarriers.
We also have cultural barriers.
There's just a slew of thingsthat come along with these
students, and so when they're ininclusion so when they're in
(09:30):
inclusion you know that teacheris trying to support all of
these students.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
And typically, as you said, by themselves.
So, reading up on all of this,what I found is that there are
common themes in every bit ofresearch that I've seen and the
(10:14):
themes are like these barriersthat, like I said, are
identified across the boardarticle I was reading.
It's talking about how teachersfeel underprepared to teach
students with disabilities, andthat makes sense, because you
talk to most teachers and if youwere to ask them about the
amount of special educationstudy that they did during their
pre-service program, let's justthink about the traditional,
the teachers that go thetraditional route right.
They go to college for fouryears.
(10:37):
They do student teaching.
We've had the privilege ofmeeting some really great young
teachers over the years and Ithink there's only ever been a
few that had intentionally takensome classes to have it added
to their certificate as far asto be able to work with students
with disabilities.
But it's not necessarily thenorm.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Right, and even I think those courses are not
necessarily in depth.
So, even though I think you'retalking about the ones that get
duly certified and it's an extracouple of classes and um yeah,
and from what we've been told,it doesn't accurately or
(11:23):
effectively prepare them either,even though they're taking
these classes.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And so what happens is we have all these kids with
varying degrees of abilityentering the classroom of a
teacher that hasn't been trainedon how to teach the spectrum of
children in their classroom.
And I don't know about you, butI know, when I step into
something that I'm going to beheld responsible for and I have
(11:51):
no idea how to do it, thatdrives me crazy, like it makes
me think back.
So when I was it was around 19,I had went and applied for a
job at a super eight motel inBrunswick, georgia.
I walked in like and I wasweird looking.
I mean, I'm weird looking now,but I was weird looking when I
(12:13):
was 19, like my black hair, andI just yeah.
So anyway, I walked in and Iasked them if they were hiring.
It just so happens I was upthere with a buddy of mine and
they said, yeah sure.
So I got hired.
They said, can you starttonight?
I said, absolutely.
I came back to work the nightaudit.
I got trained for one night andthey're like all right, here
(12:34):
you go.
To say that I was terrifiedwould be an understatement,
right?
I'm a 19 year old kid that hasno idea how to do his job and
you just said, hey, go ahead.
So now let's think not tominimize people that work in the
hospitality industry, but putsomebody in a classroom with a
(12:56):
bunch of kids and not have themtrained specifically to deal
with as many of thosedisabilities as possible.
How would you not becomeoverwhelmed?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I mean again, that's another one of those things to
me that's terrifying.
So, as I'm reading through thisjournal article, it talks about
how this lack of understandingleads to a real poor
self-efficacy or a belief inwhat they can accomplish, and
(13:32):
from that stems a poor attitude.
From the poor attitude it leaksout into everybody else in the
classroom and really prohibitsthe academic gains that one
might be looking for.
And so my question is and I'mjust kind of, I'm throwing this
(13:56):
one at you, even discussed it isfor the parent of a, a student
that is in inclusion, that'sreceiving special education
services through a co-teachmodel or, um, maybe they're just
, I don't know, but we're.
(14:17):
The majority of their day is inthe general education classroom
.
What is something that we canshare with parents that might
help them be a little moreunderstanding or compassionate
when there's things that theydon't understand going on in the
classroom?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Like, if they're getting a lot of calls from the
teacher or there's a lot ofconcern from the teacher about
the student, what is somethingthat we can tell parents to kind
of keep in mind, or maybe evensomething to view the whole
situation through that willallow them to be more
compassionate and supportive?
I think one thing that theyshould consider is asking
(15:32):
questions, ask the teacher forclarification.
For clarification, I think alot of times we go into things
and I'm guilty, too, withthinking that, okay, so can you
tell me why this is like this?
Or was you know this an issue?
(15:55):
Or was there something going onin the classroom when this?
You had this struggle and then,I think, along with that too,
is that the the parent.
So asking questions, asking forsome clarification, um, I ask
you know what?
What do you need from me?
Is there something I can do athome?
Is there you know somethingthat, uh, I can send in, or is
(16:19):
there something that you need?
Uh, ask the teacher thosequestions I can send in, or is
there something that you need?
Ask the teacher those questionsand then also, not just trying
to understand, but also helpthat teacher understand your
child, share with them some ofthe struggles and some of the
(16:41):
needs, but also some of thestrengths, because I think we
found that when we focus on thestrengths of our children and
our students, that they willkind of rise to that and they,
when they know that they'redoing something right.
So if you can as a parent, letyour child's teacher know that.
(17:01):
Okay, listen.
So, yeah, I understand that youknow he struggles or she
struggles at this, but she'sreally good at this and maybe if
you give her, like if someonelikes to lead, if you give her a
job or a task to do, she'llfollow through that and then
that will help that child feelgood about themselves.
So I'm really coming alongbesides that teacher, because
(17:23):
parent-teacher relationships Ithink are becoming more and more
thin.
I guess you would say Fractured.
These days.
Yes, and because I think that,like you were saying, that
sometimes the teachers, theydon't know what to do and then
the parents feel, well, theyjust don't care about my child.
(17:45):
And I think, always looking atit, I think teachers and parents
both need to take that view ofmaybe I misunderstood something
and not blame Maybe it's me.
I think that's one of your, oneof the things that you've
always said Well, okay, so if Iassume that I've I've got it
(18:08):
wrong, then yeah, it's not on me, if, if I'm not coming off
being rude or disrespectful.
I hope that made sense.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I don't know, I think it's owned out a little bit,
but I know most of what I waslistening to was really good.
No, no, I agree, and I agreewith what you're saying as far
as that going both ways.
I think one of the hardestthings for teachers to do,
especially when you're sittingin that IEP meeting and the
(18:41):
conversation is is a littletense or there really is a major
issue that you're you'rediscussing it's very hard
sometimes to to say yeah, Idon't know Right Like and to,
and to look at another teacherin the meeting and say I don't
know what he, what do you got?
(19:01):
I don't know how, what do yougot?
I don't know how to answer thisquestion or I don't know how to
address this.
And I think that when we arewilling to be open and honest
with each other as human beings,it helps everybody in the
process, everybody in theprocess.
(19:26):
And so what I would say to theparent is keep in mind that this
teacher probably did not have awhole lot of exposure to
students with disabilities.
Now, you can blame whoever youwant to for it, you can blame
the pre-service program, you canblame the district, you can
blame the governor, whatever butthe fact right in front of you
(19:50):
is at this moment in time,there's probably some things
that are lacking, and so what'snecessary is to see parents come
alongside and have somecompassion, but then, at the
same time, you hold each otherup.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So let's not make it about the parent versus the
teacher and actually be thatthat IEP team.
There is absolutely nothingthat suggests that our special
education population is going toshrink Right.
(20:25):
It's just becoming more andmore and there's more and more
students in our general Oops Ihit the table In our general
education classrooms that needmore support, and I think that's
something that, as educators,as parents, it needs to be at
the forefront of ourconversations.
(20:46):
I think, when it comes to ourkids with special needs, that
there's a lot of students thathave an IEP that will go on to
live full lives.
They'll go, they'll get jobs,they'll have families.
(21:07):
It's not because they have anIEP that they're on the severe
side, and a lot of it is justagain needing a little bit extra
support.
And so, as I was saying, we'retalking about this article and
(21:32):
the teachers not beingpositioned, or feeling that
they're not positioned, to be aseffective as they can be.
Again, it's another one ofthose things that you look at
here.
So it's here in front of us.
We can talk about how tominimize that moving forward,
but what do we do right now andI would challenge anybody
listening to this if you're aparent that has a child that is
(21:56):
receiving special educationservices in the inclusion
setting, special educationservices in the inclusion
setting that go into it with theidea that you want to support
that teacher.
Teachers be willing to ask eachother questions.
You know, if you're a gen edteacher that is doing the
inclusion thing, spend some timeand have a conversation with
(22:17):
this special education co-teachteacher that's coming in with
you, with this special educationco-teach teacher that's coming
in with you.
Bounce ideas off of each other.
Reach out to other specialeducation teachers, see what
they're doing Like.
One of the best things you cando Is keep communication open
and serve each other, becausewhen we start serving each other
(22:37):
, then the weight of feelinginept or the weight of feeling I
have no idea what I'm doing theweight of it lessens, because
not that you automatically knowmore, but you got somebody
walking it with you.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And so the winner in that scenario are the students.
And so, anyway, this wholearticle went on to say and I
think I already said this, butI'll button it up is that not
only are the special educationstudents missing out, the
(23:18):
general education students, thetypical developing, are missing
out.
The general education students,the typical developing, are
missing out.
Teacher burnout is at anall-time high.
What we can't change is wecan't change pre-service
programs, we can't change whatthese colleges teach.
(23:40):
We can't, you know, do the whole?
I dream a genie blink thing andmake people just know stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
That'd be cool if we could.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Wouldn't it?
But instead, here's what we getto do Be compassionate, walk
side by side with teachers andparents Doesn't mean that every
conversation is going to be ahappy one, doesn't mean that
they always turn out well, butnothing, nothing can be better
(24:15):
than a room full of people thatgenuinely care for this
particular student, and I thinkthat if you really care about
them and you want to see them dotheir best, you're going to ask
questions.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Right, I agree.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, and so that's where it always starts is asking
questions.
So parents love your teachers,ask them questions, be
supportive Teachers, be willingto say I don't but I'll find out
.
Right, we can't take it allpersonal.
We can't get flustered becausewe don't know, because we're
(24:49):
always going to have things thatwe don't know.
I've never met I've met, somegreat teachers.
I my first handful of years Igot, I got to work with some
fantastic teachers and I learneda ton from them.
But they didn't get everythingright all the time, and neither
do the parents.
So we have to keep that in mindwhen we're talking about a
(25:13):
situation, when we're talkingabout a setting that could be
very volatile.
Compassion smushes all thatdown.
People don't get to see whatI'm doing with my hands, laura
Only you.
You're so lucky.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yes, you're fanning, you're trying to fan me.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, I'm like flapping like a bird.
So anything else that you wouldlike to add to this, mrs Curtis
?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
No, I just like what you said about that two-way
street of communication andmutual respect and understanding
.
Do your best to try tounderstand what the teacher's
saying, do your best to try tounderstand what the parent is
saying and, like you said, thechild's going to benefit and
(26:00):
that's what we're supposed to behere for.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, the stinking kids.
All right.
Well, if you don't haveanything else, I'm going to go
ahead and turn this off, yougood?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
All right, so you can check us out on social medias A
few of them, the Facebooks andthe Instagrams and if you have
any questions, comments,concerns, you can shoot them to
us through those avenues.
Or you can email us atlifeinthieptribe at gmailcom.
(26:38):
Did I say it right?
Life in the IEP tribe.
It's probably a lot easier justto go to the Facebook thing,
click a button and send us amessage Instead of remembering
that super long.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I mean, it's just the name, plus, that's true.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Okay, well, and so until next time I'm Jared with
my wife Laura and we're sayinggoodbye, goodbye.
so what was that cheese called again?
Yeah it's got this like weirdflavor in my mouth.
You know like not that I needto scratch my tongue off or
anything, but it's interesting.
So anyway, let's go ahead andstart another episode.
What do you think, laura?
Should we start another?
Ahead and start another episode?
(00:23):
What do you think, laura?
Should we start another episode?
Sure.
Let's start another episode Onthat note of cheese.
So yeah, well, cheese is good,like that's one of those things
that, across the board,everybody can agree with.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Most people.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Maybe not types of cheese Like those ridiculously
demented people that callAmerican cheese cheese.
That stuff's just disgustingLike.
Why would anybody want to eatthat on purpose?
With all the cheeses in theworld, they will eat those that,
that one, whatever.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I think some people like its melting capabilities.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Okay, yeah, people like its melting capabilities.
Okay, yeah, that, yeah, soanyway, um, we often have
conversations about this stuffbecause we're both still in
school and having to read allkinds of stuff all the time, and
it's not that I enjoy readingit, it's just that I have to.
But sometimes the content ofthe papers that we have to read
(01:28):
or the journal articles that wehave to read are pretty
interesting.
So what I would like to do, uh,for this particular episode is
I would like to discuss one ofthe journal let's try that again
Journal, the journal articleand the Hand sanitizer.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Right Hand sanitizer.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, so we just start making up words.
That's the way that realteachers do it.
It's like you just kind of wingit, put together some words
like some possible, and I don'thave any more.
Like.
That's all I have.
That's what happens when werecord after working all day.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I'm lucky.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I can still say cheese balls and Chromebooks.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Better than me.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, struggle with the words.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So I read this article, this journal article
that had to do with so.
One of the big topics and youand I talk about this all the
time and there's tons ofresearch on it is the whole idea
behind inclusion, right?
So the past couple episodeswe've talked about law, We've
talked about IDEA, We've talkedabout FAPE, we talked some about
(02:52):
LRE, and if you don't know whatany of those are, go check out
the other episodes but at thevery top of these conversations
(03:18):
is the conversation of inclusion.
But across the world there'sthis kind of consensus that we
need to minimize discriminationas much as possible and, when it
comes to the world of educationand special education, that we
need to give our students thebest opportunity we can to
(03:43):
receive an education that'sgoing to help them as they move
forward, and so a lot of thisfalls under inclusion.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, what are some of the issues with inclusion?
Some of the issues areproviding support in the
classroom.
You get outside of kindergartenand there are no Right.
And then the paras inkindergarten they have enough,
you know, trying to keep up withthe students that are typically
developing and doing the extrawork that they have to do.
(04:18):
So then you know, you add inexcuse me a student that may
need some more extra support andit makes extremely difficult
for them to focus on both and doit well.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, I mean, think about this is why I'll never be
like a superintendent.
But somebody thought it was agreat idea to put 20 something
kids in a classroom with twoadults and have them learn.
I mean, that's severelyoutnumbered.
Yes, very tiny humans.
(04:55):
Some of them never been in aschool setting before, right,
not all of them have gone topreschool and so that to me that
, yeah, that, and God blessthose people that do that.
I'm telling you.
I mean it was fun when I wassubbing, but I don't know that I
could handle.
I'd be afraid, I'd be veryafraid, because there's so many
of them and they can surroundyou, but anyway, let's move on.
(05:22):
So, talking about inclusion butanyway, let's move on.
So, talking about inclusion.
So there are yeah, there's alot of hurdles, but one of the
(05:43):
ones that you'll find when doingany kind of research on it is
that we have more and moreteachers put in positions to do
so.
Right, so?
So inclusion has been a bigdeal like.
So we can go all the way backto like 19, 1905, I think it was
.
I think that's what we weresaying yeah, over the weekend or
1910, that's what it was thewhite house conference of
children, right, and this wasall about education and
providing the best, again,education that we can.
(06:08):
And of course, as we progressas a society, more things become
evident to us and we adjust andaddress and so on and so forth.
But in this whole process, the,the special education
population has just exploded.
(06:29):
So looking at the 22, 23 schoolyear, according to the Center
for Educational Statistics Ithink I said that right 15, I
think like 15.2% of the publicschool population is being
(06:51):
served under IDEA.
That turns out to be somewherein the area of like seven, seven
, just over seven millionstudents that fall under under
IDEA but it's pretty expansivefall under IDEA but it's pretty
(07:14):
expansive.
So kids getting specialeducation services aren't just
kids that are in like classrooms, like we teach the
self-contained classrooms, butmost of them.
So of that 7 million I thinkit's somewhere like four and a
half, close to 5 million are inthe general education classroom.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
And so what are some of the supports?
Right?
So you talked about that.
One of the big issues is not abig issue, but a truth is that
there's not consistent support,constant support in the
classrooms all day, and so talka little bit about that, like
what happens in the inclusionclassroom.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
In the inclusion classroom we have typically
students of varying disabilitiesand they're doing their
academics and they also have thesocial aspect of it, and so the
teacher has to make sure thatthey are ensuring that their
materials are on the right levelfor their learners, whether
(08:21):
that be on target or if they'reabove average or if they're
struggling a little bit.
So the teachers try to makesure that they have something
for all of their students thatwill be beneficial.
And then there's oftentimes,when you have students that have
(08:42):
an IEP typically, that thereare also some undesired
behaviors that follow thosestudents for various reasons.
Some of them could be thatthey're immature, because
they're not developmentallyready to be where they are.
Some of it could be theirdiagnosis itself or their
(09:06):
disability itself.
Excuse me, communicationbarriers.
We also have cultural barriers.
There's just a slew of thingsthat come along with these
students, and so when they're ininclusion so when they're in
(09:30):
inclusion you know that teacheris trying to support all of
these students.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
And typically, as you said, by themselves.
So, reading up on all of this,what I found is that there are
common themes in every bit ofresearch that I've seen and the
(10:14):
themes are like these barriersthat, like I said, are
identified across the boardarticle I was reading.
It's talking about how teachersfeel underprepared to teach
students with disabilities, andthat makes sense, because you
talk to most teachers and if youwere to ask them about the
amount of special educationstudy that they did during their
pre-service program, let's justthink about the traditional,
the teachers that go thetraditional route right.
They go to college for fouryears.
(10:37):
They do student teaching.
We've had the privilege ofmeeting some really great young
teachers over the years and Ithink there's only ever been a
few that had intentionally takensome classes to have it added
to their certificate as far asto be able to work with students
with disabilities.
But it's not necessarily thenorm.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Right, and even I think those courses are not
necessarily in depth.
So, even though I think you'retalking about the ones that get
duly certified and it's an extracouple of classes and um yeah,
and from what we've been told,it doesn't accurately or
(11:23):
effectively prepare them either,even though they're taking
these classes.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And so what happens is we have all these kids with
varying degrees of abilityentering the classroom of a
teacher that hasn't been trainedon how to teach the spectrum of
children in their classroom.
And I don't know about you, butI know, when I step into
something that I'm going to beheld responsible for and I have
(11:51):
no idea how to do it, thatdrives me crazy, like it makes
me think back.
So when I was it was around 19,I had went and applied for a
job at a super eight motel inBrunswick, georgia.
I walked in like and I wasweird looking.
I mean, I'm weird looking now,but I was weird looking when I
(12:13):
was 19, like my black hair, andI just yeah.
So anyway, I walked in and Iasked them if they were hiring.
It just so happens I was upthere with a buddy of mine and
they said, yeah sure.
So I got hired.
They said, can you starttonight?
I said, absolutely.
I came back to work the nightaudit.
I got trained for one night andthey're like all right, here
(12:34):
you go.
To say that I was terrifiedwould be an understatement,
right?
I'm a 19 year old kid that hasno idea how to do his job and
you just said, hey, go ahead.
So now let's think not tominimize people that work in the
hospitality industry, but putsomebody in a classroom with a
(12:56):
bunch of kids and not have themtrained specifically to deal
with as many of thosedisabilities as possible.
How would you not becomeoverwhelmed?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I mean again, that's another one of those things to
me that's terrifying.
So, as I'm reading through thisjournal article, it talks about
how this lack of understandingleads to a real poor
self-efficacy or a belief inwhat they can accomplish, and
(13:32):
from that stems a poor attitude.
From the poor attitude it leaksout into everybody else in the
classroom and really prohibitsthe academic gains that one
might be looking for.
And so my question is and I'mjust kind of, I'm throwing this
(13:56):
one at you, even discussed it isfor the parent of a, a student
that is in inclusion, that'sreceiving special education
services through a co-teachmodel or, um, maybe they're just
, I don't know, but we're.
(14:17):
The majority of their day is inthe general education classroom
.
What is something that we canshare with parents that might
help them be a little moreunderstanding or compassionate
when there's things that theydon't understand going on in the
classroom?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Like, if they're getting a lot of calls from the
teacher or there's a lot ofconcern from the teacher about
the student, what is somethingthat we can tell parents to kind
of keep in mind, or maybe evensomething to view the whole
situation through that willallow them to be more
compassionate and supportive?
I think one thing that theyshould consider is asking
(15:32):
questions, ask the teacher forclarification.
For clarification, I think alot of times we go into things
and I'm guilty, too, withthinking that, okay, so can you
tell me why this is like this?
Or was you know this an issue?
(15:55):
Or was there something going onin the classroom when this?
You had this struggle and then,I think, along with that too,
is that the the parent.
So asking questions, asking forsome clarification, um, I ask
you know what?
What do you need from me?
Is there something I can do athome?
Is there you know somethingthat, uh, I can send in, or is
(16:19):
there something that you need?
Uh, ask the teacher thosequestions I can send in, or is
there something that you need?
Ask the teacher those questionsand then also, not just trying
to understand, but also helpthat teacher understand your
child, share with them some ofthe struggles and some of the
(16:41):
needs, but also some of thestrengths, because I think we
found that when we focus on thestrengths of our children and
our students, that they willkind of rise to that and they,
when they know that they'redoing something right.
So if you can as a parent, letyour child's teacher know that.
(17:01):
Okay, listen.
So, yeah, I understand that youknow he struggles or she
struggles at this, but she'sreally good at this and maybe if
you give her, like if someonelikes to lead, if you give her a
job or a task to do, she'llfollow through that and then
that will help that child feelgood about themselves.
So I'm really coming alongbesides that teacher, because
(17:23):
parent-teacher relationships Ithink are becoming more and more
thin.
I guess you would say Fractured.
These days.
Yes, and because I think that,like you were saying, that
sometimes the teachers, theydon't know what to do and then
the parents feel, well, theyjust don't care about my child.
(17:45):
And I think, always looking atit, I think teachers and parents
both need to take that view ofmaybe I misunderstood something
and not blame Maybe it's me.
I think that's one of your, oneof the things that you've
always said Well, okay, so if Iassume that I've I've got it
(18:08):
wrong, then yeah, it's not on me, if, if I'm not coming off
being rude or disrespectful.
I hope that made sense.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I don't know, I think it's owned out a little bit,
but I know most of what I waslistening to was really good.
No, no, I agree, and I agreewith what you're saying as far
as that going both ways.
I think one of the hardestthings for teachers to do,
especially when you're sittingin that IEP meeting and the
(18:41):
conversation is is a littletense or there really is a major
issue that you're you'rediscussing it's very hard
sometimes to to say yeah, Idon't know Right Like and to,
and to look at another teacherin the meeting and say I don't
know what he, what do you got?
(19:01):
I don't know how, what do yougot?
I don't know how to answer thisquestion or I don't know how to
address this.
And I think that when we arewilling to be open and honest
with each other as human beings,it helps everybody in the
process, everybody in theprocess.
(19:26):
And so what I would say to theparent is keep in mind that this
teacher probably did not have awhole lot of exposure to
students with disabilities.
Now, you can blame whoever youwant to for it, you can blame
the pre-service program, you canblame the district, you can
blame the governor, whatever butthe fact right in front of you
(19:50):
is at this moment in time,there's probably some things
that are lacking, and so what'snecessary is to see parents come
alongside and have somecompassion, but then, at the
same time, you hold each otherup.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So let's not make it about the parent versus the
teacher and actually be thatthat IEP team.
There is absolutely nothingthat suggests that our special
education population is going toshrink Right.
(20:25):
It's just becoming more andmore and there's more and more
students in our general Oops Ihit the table In our general
education classrooms that needmore support, and I think that's
something that, as educators,as parents, it needs to be at
the forefront of ourconversations.
(20:46):
I think, when it comes to ourkids with special needs, that
there's a lot of students thathave an IEP that will go on to
live full lives.
They'll go, they'll get jobs,they'll have families.
(21:07):
It's not because they have anIEP that they're on the severe
side, and a lot of it is justagain needing a little bit extra
support.
And so, as I was saying, we'retalking about this article and
(21:32):
the teachers not beingpositioned, or feeling that
they're not positioned, to be aseffective as they can be.
Again, it's another one ofthose things that you look at
here.
So it's here in front of us.
We can talk about how tominimize that moving forward,
but what do we do right now andI would challenge anybody
listening to this if you're aparent that has a child that is
(21:56):
receiving special educationservices in the inclusion
setting, special educationservices in the inclusion
setting that go into it with theidea that you want to support
that teacher.
Teachers be willing to ask eachother questions.
You know, if you're a gen edteacher that is doing the
inclusion thing, spend some timeand have a conversation with
(22:17):
this special education co-teachteacher that's coming in with
you, with this special educationco-teach teacher that's coming
in with you.
Bounce ideas off of each other.
Reach out to other specialeducation teachers, see what
they're doing Like.
One of the best things you cando Is keep communication open
and serve each other, becausewhen we start serving each other
(22:37):
, then the weight of feelinginept or the weight of feeling I
have no idea what I'm doing theweight of it lessens, because
not that you automatically knowmore, but you got somebody
walking it with you.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And so the winner in that scenario are the students.
And so, anyway, this wholearticle went on to say and I
think I already said this, butI'll button it up is that not
only are the special educationstudents missing out, the
(23:18):
general education students, thetypical developing, are missing
out.
The general education students,the typical developing, are
missing out.
Teacher burnout is at anall-time high.
What we can't change is wecan't change pre-service
programs, we can't change whatthese colleges teach.
(23:40):
We can't, you know, do the whole?
I dream a genie blink thing andmake people just know stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
That'd be cool if we could.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Wouldn't it?
But instead, here's what we getto do Be compassionate, walk
side by side with teachers andparents Doesn't mean that every
conversation is going to be ahappy one, doesn't mean that
they always turn out well, butnothing, nothing can be better
(24:15):
than a room full of people thatgenuinely care for this
particular student, and I thinkthat if you really care about
them and you want to see them dotheir best, you're going to ask
questions.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Right, I agree.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, and so that's where it always starts is asking
questions.
So parents love your teachers,ask them questions, be
supportive Teachers, be willingto say I don't but I'll find out
.
Right, we can't take it allpersonal.
We can't get flustered becausewe don't know, because we're
(24:49):
always going to have things thatwe don't know.
I've never met I've met, somegreat teachers.
I my first handful of years Igot, I got to work with some
fantastic teachers and I learneda ton from them.
But they didn't get everythingright all the time, and neither
do the parents.
So we have to keep that in mindwhen we're talking about a
(25:13):
situation, when we're talkingabout a setting that could be
very volatile.
Compassion smushes all thatdown.
People don't get to see whatI'm doing with my hands, laura
Only you.
You're so lucky.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yes, you're fanning, you're trying to fan me.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, I'm like flapping like a bird.
So anything else that you wouldlike to add to this, mrs Curtis
?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
No, I just like what you said about that two-way
street of communication andmutual respect and understanding
.
Do your best to try tounderstand what the teacher's
saying, do your best to try tounderstand what the parent is
saying and, like you said, thechild's going to benefit and
(26:00):
that's what we're supposed to behere for.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, the stinking kids.
All right.
Well, if you don't haveanything else, I'm going to go
ahead and turn this off, yougood?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
All right, so you can check us out on social medias A
few of them, the Facebooks andthe Instagrams and if you have
any questions, comments,concerns, you can shoot them to
us through those avenues.
Or you can email us atlifeinthieptribe at gmailcom.
(26:38):
Did I say it right?
Life in the IEP tribe.
It's probably a lot easier justto go to the Facebook thing,
click a button and send us amessage Instead of remembering
that super long.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I mean, it's just the name, plus, that's true.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Okay, well, and so until next time I'm Jared with
my wife Laura and we're sayinggoodbye, goodbye.
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